Wallace Wade Stadium

[1Dukie]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i279/1dukie/WWplans.jpg

:cool:

[wilson]

Um...clarification?
Where did this come from?
Is this officially planned, or is it just a proposal?
Will the Central Campus monorail stop there?
How the hell is Duke winning in that picture?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i279/1dukie/WWplans.jpg

:cool:

Why is the scoreboard facing away from the playing field? So the students tailgating in the parking lot can see it? And it doesn't look like the new and improved stadium has done much for the crowd size in general, either. I see only 2 fans in the top picture.

Up 2 touchdowns early in the 4th quarter? Too much time left on the clock!

[watzone]

It's an additional scoreboard and will dual for concourse events. The little blue lines you see in the top picture represents people in blueprints.

Among the additions ill be modern bathrooms and concession stands and a remodeled press box.

What you are seeing is the North Entrance, where there ill be a fanzone and ticket pavilion.

There will be club lxury suevel seating and luxury suites. There will also be field level seating on both sides as well as the endzone.

While the drawing doesn't seem to have the track, I am pretty sure it will remain and don't know how this will change proposed seating.

There are already survey teams at work around Wade and the construction will start in 2008 after the Coach K Center for Athletic Excellence is finished.

[Indoor66]

It's an additional scoreboard and will dual for concourse events. The little blue lines you see in the top picture represents people in blueprints.

Among the additions ill be modern bathrooms and concession stands and a remodeled press box.

What you are seeing is the North Entrance, where there ill be a fanzone and ticket pavilion.

There will be club lxury suevel seating and luxury suites. There will also be field level seating on both sides as well as the endzone.

While the drawing doesn't seem to have the track, I am pretty sure it will remain and don't know how this will change proposed seating.

There are already survey teams at work around Wade and the construction will start in 2008 after the Coach K Center for Athletic Excellence is finished.

Sounds like a plan to me. And to think that the Administration came up with this idea without input from the "concerned" members of this board. Or maybe they did have input? :confused:

[wilson]

But seriously...is there going to be a Duke monorail stop there?

[Indoor66]

But seriously...is there going to be a Duke monorail stop there?

Only if they can get the train built beyond the RDU Airport.

[duketaylor]

Thanks watzone for the info. Looks like Wade will look a little like the LA Coliseum, nice.

[Bluedawg]

It's an additional scoreboard and will dual for concourse events. The little blue lines you see in the top picture represents people in blueprints.

Among the additions ill be modern bathrooms and concession stands and a remodeled press box.

What you are seeing is the North Entrance, where there ill be a fanzone and ticket pavilion.

There will be club lxury suevel seating and luxury suites. There will also be field level seating on both sides as well as the endzone.

While the drawing doesn't seem to have the track, I am pretty sure it will remain and don't know how this will change proposed seating.

There are already survey teams at work around Wade and the construction will start in 2008 after the Coach K Center for Athletic Excellence is finished.

this will look real nice facing Cameron and make for a tremendous athletics courtyard. What changes will be in store for the East gate facing the "blue zone" and the West gate by Finch-Yeager?

Where did the pics come from? Is there a web page discussing this?

[hurleyfor3]

But seriously...is there going to be a Duke monorail stop there?

It'll be on the North Haverbrook line.

Why are we playing "Guest"? It's a brand new sophistimacated jumbomatron, but all it can display for the opponent is "Guest"? Even the current scoreboard is better than this!

[hurleyfor3]

Where did the pics come from? Is there a web page discussing this?

Yes.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36693#post36693

[tward24]

Mark or anyone else in the know,

has there been any discussion as to the prices for the luxury boxes?

[Bluedawg]

Yes.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36693#post36693

Dude, All that link does is get me back to your post about the Duke monorail.

the only info i can find is "Wallace Wade Stadium Renovations Include Track & Field Facility (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22490&SPID=1835&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1097506)"

[Jarhead]

FDA is gonna have a fit. Don't anybody tell him.

[killerleft]

Unless that track can levitate, I just don't see the room for it with those new on-field seats. When they changed to 8 lanes years ago, it was a tight fit.

[Jarhead]

With or without a track, on-field seats will not work, except in the end zones. Sight lines would be impossible, because of all those coaches and players standing along the sidelines. My seats are row EE, and I miss a lot of the action that is close to the sideline. Coach Wade liked to watch the game seated on the bench, so the players all either sat on the bench or watched from behind it.

[watzone]

The back of the football media guide has all the details.

[devilirium]

That goduke link about the track is disappointing. Feels nice walking on it, but it belongs elsewhere. It makes about as much sense as inviting prior cheerleaders to "kick" at Homecoming. When was the track added--early 70's?---I understand the author is collectively putting football and track in a historical context, but the track represents very little of that history--and is the butt of endless jokes around the conference. I will say that I love the rendering. It does have a coliseum feel to it, and is reminiscient of Scott Stadium with the colonnades. I think that's a good move.

The site lines could be corrected, if the field was lowered....doesn't appear that will happen, though.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

That goduke link about the track is disappointing. Feels nice walking on it, but it belongs elsewhere. It makes about as much sense as inviting prior cheerleaders to "kick" at Homecoming. When was the track added--early 70's?---I understand the author is collectively putting football and track in a historical context, but the track represents very little of that history--and is the butt of endless jokes around the conference. I will say that I love the rendering. It does have a coliseum feel to it, and is reminiscient of Scott Stadium with the colonnades. I think that's a good move.

The site lines could be corrected, if the field was lowered....doesn't appear that will happen, though.

You don't like the "alumni cheer" at homecoming? I can tell you that most of the alumni in attendance at football games do. I'd still like to watch Vicki Bubas and Liana Silsby cheer.

As to the track, it was there in the 70's when I was an undergrad. And it has hosted at least one major international track and field event "back in the day". I believe even the Olympic trials ~30 years ago. That is when NCCU's Coach Walker was the pre-eminent track coach in the nation.

[Bob Green]

I was first in Wallace Wade in 66 or 67 (before it was Wallace Wade) and I remember the track being there. However, seeing as I was 7 or 8 at the time my memory may not be all that accurate.

In 1976, I attended a major track and field event at WW. I can't recall the name of the event, but WW was practically empty and Bob Hayes was sitting one row behind me.

[YmoBeThere]

Why are we playing "Guest"? It's a brand new sophistimacated jumbomatron, but all it can display for the opponent is "Guest"? Even the current scoreboard is better than this!

I'll take a football win against any Guest any Saturday we can get it!

[Capn Poptart]

My guess is that removal of the track, lowering of the field and building of the pictured additional seats is the very last phase of the pictured project and would only be implemented down the road if we started winning some games and the new seats could be justified.

I think that part is more of a long-range possibility. All the other improvements could be completed without touching the field area.

[formerdukeathlete]

My guess is that removal of the track, lowering of the field and building of the pictured additional seats is the very last phase of the pictured project and would only be implemented down the road if we started winning some games and the new seats could be justified.

I think that part is more of a long-range possibility. All the other improvements could be completed without touching the field area.

Removing the track and lowering the field could be done at a later date. I have had conversations about this, but do not claim any inside info. re plans in this regard, or what thresholds need to be reached in attendance, etc. I am for it, of course, and believe with respect to removing the track and lowering the field, "Build it and they will come."

When you remove the track, then you need to spend the dough to build a new facility.

Jarhead, help us/ me out, you had a location in mind beyond the football practice field which still be adjacent to the athletic complex, and adjacent to the cross country running trails.

[Atldukie79]

I grew up in Durham in the 60's and greduated from Duke in the late 70's. My dad attended football games when Wallace Wade sat on the bench. Our recollection is that there has always been a track in the stadium. The open end on the stadium was obviously shaped for that purpose. It was a cinder track into the late 60's. At some time in the early 70's a big deal was made when they installed a new spongy surface. There were at least 2 very large track meets held in the stadium. One was the Pan African games and the other was the USA/USSR meet. (Both in the 70's??) Durham was in some respects challenging Eugene Oregon for the title of track capital in the USA.

I recall that bleachers (10 or 15 rows worth) used to ring the upper level of the stadium...often hitting 52,000 fans for big games (UNC) and maybe even 56,000 at one time. Field level bleachers were definitly used for the Rose Bowl game.

[Indoor66]

I grew up in Durham in the 60's and greduated from Duke in the late 70's. My dad attended football games when Wallace Wade sat on the bench. Our recollection is that there has always been a track in the stadium. The open end on the stadium was obviously shaped for that purpose. It was a cinder track into the late 60's. At some time in the early 70's a big deal was made when they installed a new spongy surface. There were at least 2 very large track meets held in the stadium. One was the Pan African games and the other was the USA/USSR meet. (Both in the 70's??) Durham was in some respects challenging Eugene Oregon for the title of track capital in the USA.

I recall that bleachers (10 or 15 rows worth) used to ring the upper level of the stadium...often hitting 52,000 fans for big games (UNC) and maybe even 56,000 at one time. Field level bleachers were definitely used for the Rose Bowl game.

The bleachers surrounding the field were added for the '42 Rose Bowl. The track was a part of the stadium from its original construction. The meets described were held at Wade as the primary venue with some events in other venues around the Triangle. Additionally there was a USA - Germany meet during the same early 70's period.

Dr. LeRoy Walker, track coach (and later VP) at NCCU (then North Carolina College) was the prime mover for these meets. He later served as the 1976 U. S. Olympic Track coach. Al Beuller, the Duke track coach, was also very active in the program. The meets were very successful - drawing crowds in the 20,000+ range day in and day out. There was an attempt to hold the U. S. Olympic trials at Duke but Eugene, OR won out. Politics more than facilities. Durham meets outdrew Eugene during this period.

The Durham Sports Club of the period was a prime mover and supporter of these events. From that group grew the organizing core and the directorship. LeRoy was always the focus of the leadership, holding organizational meetings at his home.

Those were some heady days in Durham.

[watzone]

I am glad you guys remember the track meets, etc. I attended the Pan African games. It was a nice event but far from sold out. I caught a splinter from the aforementioned bleachers too, not to mention watching a pretty drunk female GT fan roll all the way down one... ouch! And Walker? He did some great work for track and field in the day. It's ashamed he is not remembered for it. Lastly, the track ... I would miss walking/jogging on it, but the field really is a long ways off. I am just not certain how cost effective it would be to build another one. This middle aged fellow just wants to see some changes before my pending afterlife.

[jmb]

Edwin Moses still has the stadium record in the 400 hurdles, stemming from the USA/USSR meet I believe

[phaedrus]

That goduke link about the track is disappointing. Feels nice walking on it, but it belongs elsewhere. It makes about as much sense as inviting prior cheerleaders to "kick" at Homecoming. When was the track added--early 70's?---I understand the author is collectively putting football and track in a historical context, but the track represents very little of that history--and is the butt of endless jokes around the conference. I will say that I love the rendering. It does have a coliseum feel to it, and is reminiscient of Scott Stadium with the colonnades. I think that's a good move.

The site lines could be corrected, if the field was lowered....doesn't appear that will happen, though.

the track is the butt of endless jokes around the conference? don't you think people have better things to joke about, like losing?

i think that track has more history than you know.

[Bluedawg]

The back of the football media guide has all the details.

They normally upload the media guide on line, but its not there yet. Hopefully I can pick one up in a couple of weeks. Can you summerize what it says? Everyone talks about new seats but I can't find that anywhere.

[devilirium]

the track is the butt of endless jokes around the conference? don't you think people have better things to joke about, like losing?

i think that track has more history than you know.


You're right about my understanding of the history of the track. I had heard that Duke attracted several large crowds in the 50s and 60s and had assumed that the track wasn't there. And while Duke Football has brought a very low ticket gate, well what has the track done in terms of attracting fans (lately)? Zilch. It's spongy and gives you a nice workout, but I'd rather see that track across the street from Brodhead's house in that open field.

Just my opinion, but a track around a football field screams high school. For a school that prides itself on getting it's students closer to the action with basketball, it's a tad disappointing. It falls short of what Duke ought to aspire (to). I understand that other fanbases may bring more numbers, but Duke's numbers would increase with success. The '94 season comes to mind. On the other hand, I love a lot about the rendering and what Wallace Wade will become in a few years.

And yeah, other teams joke about the losing, but the surroundings exacerbate the situation. The losing has become so ingrainted that even it's humor has become punchless. The track isn't the main culprit (it's part of the whole scene)--it's the restrooms, and the idea that a fresh coat of beige paint "suddenly" changes a not very aesthetic venue; and there are tangential issues--like the size of the marching band and the blacktop concourse.

[phaedrus]

i certainly see where you're coming from as a football fan. but you have to understand that the track isn't just nice and spongy and a nice place to go for evening strolls, it's one of the premier track and field facilities on the east coast. it holds one of the largest college invitational track meets on the east coast every year. it has a pretty impressive history of elite competition - last year, during a small twilight meet, the world 400m hurdles champion came in and ran the fastest time in the world thus far against a small group of local college kids. not to mention that one of the best group of women distance runners in the country train there, as well as a men's team that's generally ranked in the top 30 or 40 (out of 300+ programs).

i think the track has more reason to be indignant about the football field in its midst than vice versa.

[gep]

And yeah, other teams joke about the losing, but the surroundings exacerbate the situation. The losing has become so ingrainted that even it's humor has become punchless.

Reminds me of the "victory bell" that goes to the winner of the Duke/UNC football game each year. My son and his friends thought it was a part of the UNC logo/mascot kind of thing that they bring to each football game... since UNC at that time had the bell for well over 10 years straight.:)

[formerdukeathlete]

You're right about my understanding of the history of the track. I had heard that Duke attracted several large crowds in the 50s and 60s and had assumed that the track wasn't there. And while Duke Football has brought a very low ticket gate, well what has the track done in terms of attracting fans (lately)? Zilch. It's spongy and gives you a nice workout, but I'd rather see that track across the street from Brodhead's house in that open field.

Just my opinion, but a track around a football field screams high school. For a school that prides itself on getting it's students closer to the action with basketball, it's a tad disappointing. It falls short of what Duke ought to aspire (to). I understand that other fanbases may bring more numbers, but Duke's numbers would increase with success. The '94 season comes to mind. On the other hand, I love a lot about the rendering and what Wallace Wade will become in a few years.

And yeah, other teams joke about the losing, but the surroundings exacerbate the situation. The losing has become so ingrainted that even it's humor has become punchless. The track isn't the main culprit (it's part of the whole scene)--it's the restrooms, and the idea that a fresh coat of beige paint "suddenly" changes a not very aesthetic venue; and there are tangential issues--like the size of the marching band and the blacktop concourse.

Duke's track was resurfaced in 03 and its playing field reworked in 1998, so when you lower the field, of course these costs are sunk. On the other hand, lowering the field has always been one of the most cost-effective ways to both add seats and improve sight lines. I suppose, the added costs of building a new track facility are part of the reason to put this part on hold.


http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/Big10/Wisconsin/index.htm

Wisconsin's is a horseshoe design. They removed their running track in 1958 and added 11k in seats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_Field

Colorado's is a horseshoe design; they removed the running track in 1968.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boone_Pickens_Stadium

Oklahoma State removed their running track in 1971 and added artificial turf - all for $2.5 million at the time.


Of course, stadiums with running tracks within were a common design in the early 20th century. They are rare in BC Division 1 today.

[Bluedawg]

Duke's track was resurfaced in 03 and its playing field reworked in 1998, so when you lower the field, of course these costs are sunk. On the other hand, lowering the field has always been one of the most cost-effective ways to both add seats and improve sight lines. I suppose, the added costs of building a new track facility are part of the reason to put this part on hold.
Of course, stadiums with running tracks within were a common design in the early 20th century. They are rare in BC Division 1 today.

Do you have anything to support your claim that the seats are being added and the track is going away? You are the only one saying this. According to the only authoritative published information i can find:


Despite recent media reports that have stated otherwise, Wallace Wade Stadium will remain the home of Duke's men's and women's track and field programs for many years to come. Source (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22490&SPID=1835&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1097506)

[grossbus]

i want to know more about this. where to find?

[devilirium]

Not sure if you're speaking about the rendering of Wally Wade--you can find it on the back of the new media guide for Duke Football.

[devilirium]

i think the track has more reason to be indignant about the football field in its midst than vice versa.[/QUOTE]


Nice tenacity....touche. We'll just agree to disagree.

[phaedrus]

don't get me wrong, i'd love for duke to have a great football team too. i just don't think we should improve their stadium at the expense of another program.

i doubt duke was short-sighted enough to spend $1 million-plus redoing the track in 2003 just to tear it up a few years later.

[Bluedawg]

don't get me wrong, i'd love for duke to have a great football team too. i just don't think we should improve their stadium at the expense of another program.

i doubt duke was short-sighted enough to spend $1 million-plus redoing the track in 2003 just to tear it up a few years later.

The stadium needs to be updated, but I doubt they will take away the track.

[formerdukeathlete]

Do you have anything to support your claim that the seats are being added and the track is going away? You are the only one saying this. According to the only authoritative published information i can find:

I have not said it is going to happen, certainly not soon, based on current data points.

I have said that removing the track and lowering the field and then adding seats down to the field is an inexpensive way to add seating capacity while at the same time improving sight lines, some would say, for everyone in the stadium. Stadiums with tracks around the field were common in the early 1900s, but are very rare today. Kansas is one of the few other bowl championship subdivision 1 schools with this. Kansas may be the only one - here is the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Division_I-FBS_college_football_stadiums

Ohio U is another school which recently removed the running track, lowered the field and added seats for a cost of $2.8 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peden_Stadium

In 1972 Utah removed their running track, lowered the field and added seats after receiving a $1 million gift.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice-Eccles_Stadium

As you mentioned, no doubt that the U just redid the track 4 years ago, and the costs of moving the track, were considerations in pending the field lowering expansion considered for Wade.

I think we should go ahead and do it. Just do it, as long as we can raise the money. The costs are minimal when considering present value of projected ACC revenue related to Football. And, if we are going to start raising a billion for central campus because central campus was built in the 70s and is falling apart, certainly we can raise much smaller amounts of money to update Wade built in the 1920s and update Cameron built in the 1930s.

[orrnot]

I'm pro-track. I don't mind Duke being different and making a statement that we highly value sports other than the big 2. I'd like Duke to show its enthusiasm for football by taking on the many other worthy projects for the Wade upgrade. There's so much work to be done, I think we can spend time and money getting the stadium to a point where the track question may need to be revisited. Maybe by then it will be time; the track facility will be well-aged, and maybe our winning football team can help fund a true track palace elsewhere. It could happen.
Meanwhile, it seems that even those touting Duke's track glory have lost sight of a few details. See below from GoDuke.com:
"The facility's excellent reputation as a fast track can be backed by the impressive list of stadium records and the big meets and big crowds it has often attracted. NCAA Championships, Olympic Festivals and International dual meets are regular features at Duke, and the 1994 Pan Africa-USA International Track meet made another assault on the record books.
Every April, the Duke Invitational is host to more than 2,000 athletes from around the nation in a top-flight collegiate competition. In addition, Duke hosted the 2000 NCAA Outdoor Track and Field Championships and drew a four-day crowd of more than 35,000. In 1996, Duke hosted the Olympic Gold Rush Meet and drew 29,000 fans in one evening. "
It's also worth mentioning that the Durham Striders Track Club hosts the Russell Blunt Invitational in Wallace Wade each summer. Thousands of young athletes from the US and the Caribbean compete in a showcase event that exemplifies the best of Duke-Durham relations (no sarcasm or irony intended there).

[orrnot]

I don't quite get the obsession w/looking "high school." My opinion is that the trivial oddities of stadiums loom large for losers and are beloved quirks to winners, e.g. Cameron's oddball hanging goals. Arguably, those are way high school, but who cares?
Winning would make Wallace Wade most attractive, and next would come bathrooms. After that I think the obsessively studied media guide back page offers some attractive possibilities. My 2 cents would go toward some kind of solidly constructed and attractive awning that would provide shade for the upper reaches of the stands as well as the concourse standing room. I think that open space for mingling fandom is Wade's unique offering and one that could be built upon. If you've attended graduation in the last couple of years think of the tents that shade the handicapped seating; they provide a very rough example and template for something that could be very nicely done. Further, a solid but pleasing structure ringing the entire concourse/upper seating area would be a great mounting for distributed loudspeakers, video displays, and scoreboards. Perhaps it would contribute some Cameronesque acoustic effects to active fans. Give me all that and I might be willing to listen to your plans for blowing up the track.

[Jarhead]

Removing the track and lowering the field could be done at a later date. I have had conversations about this, but do not claim any inside info. re plans in this regard, or what thresholds need to be reached in attendance, etc. I am for it, of course, and believe with respect to removing the track and lowering the field, "Build it and they will come."

When you remove the track, then you need to spend the dough to build a new facility.

Jarhead, help us/ me out, you had a location in mind beyond the football practice field which still be adjacent to the athletic complex, and adjacent to the cross country running trails.

It has been a very long time since I participated in a discussion of this topic on the old DBR bulletin board. It was about the same time as we discussed what to do about Carl Franks. I don't recall what I may have said about an alternate location for a football stadium. Stadium size land is in short supply on that part of the campus. My choice remains with Wade, and I don't think I ever wavered from that.

There are two parcels of land on the south side of Cameron Blvd that might be used, but there would be tons of problems with either. Just to the west of the Golf course and faculty club area close to US 15/501 is a small area in which a stadium of about Wade's size would fit. Not very good choice. On the east side of the golf course between the driving range and 751 is a larger area very close to the existing stadium complex that would be better suited, but if I lived over that way along Pinecrest, I would be demonstrating with all my might against putting a stadium there.

There is no choice better than the current location of Wade, which really only needs to be transfigured in place leaving the playing field and Olympic level track as they are. Another point, the Yoh Bldg. It can't be moved. Only the spectator areas need an upgrade with priority going to the toilet facilities, and seating area, but I'm not so hot on luxury boxes. I don't see the need for them. The University can raise more funds with a sold out stadium creating a demand for prime tickets doled out on the basis of contributions to the athletic scholarship fund, a la Cameron.

[watzone]

Jarhead -Another point, the Yoh Bldg. It can't be moved. Only the spectator areas need an upgrade with priority going to the toilet facilities, and seating area, but I'm not so hot on luxury boxes. I don't see the need for them. The University can raise more funds with a sold out stadium creating a demand for prime tickets doled out on the basis of contributions to the athletic scholarship fund, a la Cameron.[/

I disagree in that the luxury boxes bring in immediate money through corporations, etc. If Duke is going to keep up with the times, then they need a few of these. That said, anybody who gets one, please invite me:)

[Indoor66]

Jarhead -Another point, the Yoh Bldg. It can't be moved. Only the spectator areas need an upgrade with priority going to the toilet facilities, and seating area, but I'm not so hot on luxury boxes. I don't see the need for them. The University can raise more funds with a sold out stadium creating a demand for prime tickets doled out on the basis of contributions to the athletic scholarship fund, a la Cameron.[/

I disagree in that the luxury boxes bring in immediate money through corporations, etc. If Duke is going to keep up with the times, then they need a few of these. That said, anybody who gets one, please invite me:)

How about a fund drive within DBR to buy a box. That would help the program.

I just want a seat to watch the cat (oh, thats right, in football it's a dog fight) fight to see who gets to sit there each Saturday! Help Duke Football and bash a buddy. :D

[Jarhead]

Luxury boxes? I am not totally against them. I just don't see the need for them. I'd take advantage of an invitation to sit in one, but wouldn't spend a penny for it. And I'd go back to my seats at halftime.

There are no better seats in Wade than my 2 seats in Row EE right on the 47 yd line, visitor's side, except on sunny hot days. Oh, yeah, and except for the aluminum benches. These seats were right on the 50 until they moved the field to accommodate widening of the track to comply with Olympic standards in lanes and distance. I've had those seats for decades, but I would prefer the more modern folding seats.

First on the list has to be the toilets. Lots more of them with the infra red flushers. Second is the seating, and everything else is fungible depending on cost/benefit studies. Luxury boxes may offer a fund raising benefit, but in my mind if you are in one, you are not in the game. I believe that more money would come rolling in if season ticket assignments were based on Iron Duke contributions.

Capacity? No more than 38,000 to 40,000. Easy way, permanent bleachers all the way around the top of the horseshoe for general admission, but not as many rows as we had before. That would cover the shortfall from putting in modern stadium seating in the original bowl. No seats at field level!!! Cost? I have no idea. That's for management, engineers, and bean counters to determine, but the sum total should be balanced with expected benefits. If none, please fix the toilets.

[coblue]

Any particlar reason you can't lower the field alot, and design a semi permanent base that covers and protects the track and provides base for premium bleachers all the way around?

[formerdukeathlete]

There are two parcels of land on the south side of Cameron Blvd that might be used, but there would be tons of problems with either. Just to the west of the Golf course and faculty club area close to US 15/501 is a small area in which a stadium of about Wade's size would fit. Not very good choice. On the east side of the golf course between the driving range and 751 is a larger area very close to the existing stadium complex that would be better suited, but if I lived over that way along Pinecrest, I would be demonstrating with all my might against putting a stadium there.



Caveat: will what is being considered for Cameron leave us with an adequate facility in the long run? If this is an open question to any degree or in the slightest, perhaps some of the land you mention would need to be considered for a new bball arena.

Putting this aside, the second parcel - would a low rise track facility with decidated locker rooms and concessions fit more nicely within the neighborhood?

I think with Yoh where it is, and Duke's current and projected needs for seating, Wade's configuration allows for an easy expansion in time vis a vis removing the running track and lowering the field. Someone mentioned lowering the field and then installing removable bleachers, or retractable bleachers, which would have similar sightlines as more permanent seating. I guess there would be a couple of issues. Potential, probable damage to the track, and then in the case of retractable bleachers, you probably lose a lane or two of area for the track.

Do we all remember what prompted us to replace the wood bleachers with aluminum? I believe Duke hosted a large track meet in the 1980s and there was an article in Sports Illustrated about the poor condition of the stadium, including that folks got splinters off the bleachers. In that sense track helped move Wade, football along.

Wade would look pretty impressive were we to do something similar to Wisconsin, an old horseshose stadium, where they removed the track, lowered the field, and brought seats to the field in 1958. When you look at a number of stadiums, whether Michigan's, Yale's the Rose Bowl, the La Coliseum, the playing field is coniderably below the grade of surronding land. Done correctly, Wade Stadium would be a seemless steady grade with seats all the way down to the playing field, yet still 10 feet above the field. My guess is that if we added endzone seats we would add 9k approx. seats in total. This might make up for lost seat count were the rest of the stadium converted to non-bleachers.

Your thoughts, Jarhead.

[formerdukeathlete]

I disagree in that the luxury boxes bring in immediate money through corporations, etc. If Duke is going to keep up with the times, then they need a few of these. That said, anybody who gets one, please invite me:)

http://www.chathamjournal.com/weekly/sports/football/wfu-enhances-groves-60803.shtml

I hope the building(s) perhaps planned on the president's box side is large enough to add symmetry vis a vis the Press Box side, and that this building would house a good number of these boxes. Wake is going all out in this regard, presumably because they make money. Corps. rent them for the season, and use them for entertaining purposes.

[SilkyJ]

I really dont understand why we even discuss this. Does anyone really think this will happen in the next 20 years? No one goes to Duke football games. The stadium is rarely even Half-Full. The opposing teams quite often have more fans show up to the games then we do. Hardly any students go to the games, although that will change once we start winning ;)

I just dont see this happening until we have a string of good seasons and start going to bowl games on a regular basis. I think that will cause a bump in fan attendance and that will get the juices flowing for a new stadium, but I dont see that happening for at least 10-15 years. And then it takes several years of talking about it just to make it happen...

[throatybeard]

I really don't understand why we even discuss this. Does anyone really think this will happen in the next 20 years?

The Corleone family will be completely legitimate in 5 years.

[Jarhead]

Any particlar reason you can't lower the field alot, and design a semi permanent base that covers and protects the track and provides base for premium bleachers all the way around?

The geometry of lowering the playing field and the track simply will not work. Nor would just lowering the field. To lower the field, and make it work, the track would have to be uncovered and resurfaced every time it is needed for an event. The required space for event management, and other field events would have to go somewhere else. Gee, no long jump, no high jump, no pole vault, no hammer throw, no discuss, no javelin, none of the filed events would work unsatisfactorily. Then how in the world would we ever get the Summer Olympics to come to Durham?

Seriously, I wish I could draw the image for you, but I haven't yet figured out how to use the mechanical drawing tools in this bbs software. OK, now seriously. To put more seats in front of the existing seats, there simply is no room for the track. The seats would have to be high enough to allow sight lines over the players and coaches on the sidelines. The slope of the new stands would also be a factor. It all has to work together. There are many more considerations to be managed. It would all cost too much. So would relocating the track facilities across Cameron Blvd. It's a pipe dream.

If the powers that be feel that the track is expendable, then ok, but Id' still object. The more economical solution would be simply a stadium renovation as I suggested in an earlier post today:

First on the list has to be the toilets. Lots more of them with the infra red flushers. Second is the seating, and everything else is fungible depending on cost/benefit studies. Luxury boxes may offer a fund raising benefit, but in my mind if you are in one, you are not in the game. I believe that more money would come rolling in if season ticket assignments were based on Iron Duke contributions [when the football program starts drawing fans].

Capacity? No more than 38,000 to 40,000. Easy way, permanent bleachers all the way around the top of the horseshoe for general admission, but not as many rows as we had before. That would cover the shortfall from putting in modern stadium seating in the original bowl. No seats at field level!!! Cost? I have no idea. That's for management, engineers, and bean counters to determine, but the sum total should be balanced with expected benefits. If none, please [at least] fix the toilets.
Imagine selling 20,000 season tickets requiring at least a $1,000 per year Iron Duke contribution. That could mean $20 million a year. Would luxury boxes bring in that much? My seats have to be grandfathered in, though.

Duke has lots of money, but let's not waste it on pipe dreams and vainglorious ideas. We don't need a a 100,000 seat stadium, or even half of that. I predict that even with a top ten football program, no more than 40,000 seats would be required. Let' sell out those seats for a few seasons before we get to grandiose plans for expansion. Maybe then we could look at upper decks on both sides with luxury boxes hanging off the front on each side. That would put some shade over my seats, and a double decker might bring other attractions such as track and field, and soccer for some big time events.

Let's not go whole hog until we see what he demand for seats is going to be. I have been to games when we had near 60,000 fans in the stands. That was awesome, but rare, very rare. Nobody in North Carolina can fill a stadium as big as the LA Coliseum. in fact, nobody in the ACC could expect that, so lets not dream such a thing for Duke. Lets just do what we need to do to make Wade more comfortable, and attractive to more fans. Go Duke, Beat UConn

By the way, FDA, what other plans for Cameron are you talking about?

[DevilWolf]

"and soccer"

With the track, I don't think the field is big enough to host a big-time soccer event. An American football field is 60 yards wide. You need about 20 more yards of width to be a good size for international competition, and I'm pretty sure the back corners of the endone are pretty much right up against the track.

If you're going to upgrade the stadium thinking about events other than Duke football, you'd have to choose between track and soccer.

[formerdukeathlete]

The geometry of lowering the playing field and the track simply will not work. Nor would just lowering the field. To lower the field, and make it work, the track would have to be uncovered and resurfaced every time it is needed for an event. The required space for event management, and other field events would have to go somewhere else. Gee, no long jump, no high jump, no pole vault, no hammer throw, no discuss, no javelin, none of the filed events would work unsatisfactorily. Then how in the world would we ever get the Summer Olympics to come to Durham?

Seriously, I wish I could draw the image for you, but I haven't yet figured out how to use the mechanical drawing tools in this bbs software. OK, now seriously. To put more seats in front of the existing seats, there simply is no room for the track. The seats would have to be high enough to allow sight lines over the players and coaches on the sidelines. The slope of the new stands would also be a factor. It all has to work together. There are many more considerations to be managed. It would all cost too much. So would relocating the track facilities across Cameron Blvd. It's a pipe dream.

If the powers that be feel that the track is expendable, then ok, but Id' still object. The more economical solution would be simply a stadium renovation as I suggested in an earlier post today:

Imagine selling 20,000 season tickets requiring at least a $1,000 per year Iron Duke contribution. That could mean $20 million a year. Would luxury boxes bring in that much? My seats have to be grandfathered in, though.

Duke has lots of money, but let's not waste it on pipe dreams and vainglorious ideas. We don't need a a 100,000 seat stadium, or even half of that. I predict that even with a top ten football program, no more than 40,000 seats would be required. Let' sell out those seats for a few seasons before we get to grandiose plans for expansion. Maybe then we could look at upper decks on both sides with luxury boxes hanging off the front on each side. That would put some shade over my seats, and a double decker might bring other attractions such as track and field, and soccer for some big time events.

Let's not go whole hog until we see what he demand for seats is going to be. I have been to games when we had near 60,000 fans in the stands. That was awesome, but rare, very rare. Nobody in North Carolina can fill a stadium as big as the LA Coliseum. in fact, nobody in the ACC could expect that, so lets not dream such a thing for Duke. Lets just do what we need to do to make Wade more comfortable, and attractive to more fans. Go Duke, Beat UConn

By the way, FDA, what other plans for Cameron are you talking about?

Watzone posted about some plans for Cameron which involve going up and adding some boxes, some seats, and redo of the press area. K has been involved.

Re Wade, based on research of other stadiums in which the running track was removed, such as Wisconsin and others I mentioned in this thread, total seats added in this approach would probably be in the 8k to 11k range. One school added 6k seats. It seems that this is an ecnomical way to add seats. In Duke's case, the stadium would encircle the field in an more intimate fashion. It would become louder. I think this expansion of wade works perfectly. As long as we can locate the running track continguous with the athletic complex and cross country trails. It has been a long time since I ran the cross country trails. Are they by the area you described as the more suitable of two for locating another track / facility?

Remove the running track and lower the field and bring seats to the field and Duke is something just above 40k in seats.

With the worst, and least impressive stadium in the ACC, we are on the right track with what has been proposed and planned.

[Capn Poptart]

I really dont understand why we even discuss this. Does anyone really think this will happen in the next 20 years? No one goes to Duke football games. The stadium is rarely even Half-Full. The opposing teams quite often have more fans show up to the games then we do. Hardly any students go to the games, although that will change once we start winning ;)

I just dont see this happening until we have a string of good seasons and start going to bowl games on a regular basis. I think that will cause a bump in fan attendance and that will get the juices flowing for a new stadium, but I dont see that happening for at least 10-15 years. And then it takes several years of talking about it just to make it happen...
Some people actually do want Duke to win in football. Better facilities can only help us in that regard.

And the arms race in college football will force us to upgrade if we want to remain in the ACC. Everyone - everyone - is pumping big money into its facilities. Check out Wake Forest's plans: http://wakeforestfacilities.com/tour_renderings.htm It may be excessive, but Duke University can't sit this one out.

That's why these improvements will get done. The removal of the track and resulting seat additions may not happen for a great while, but most of the project will happen in the next five years.

[DevilAlumna]

Stadium Upgrades Gaining Ground (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1178931)


Director of athletics Joe Alleva commissioned RATIO Architects of Indianapolis to develop a plan for upgrading the stadium. The Board of Trustees has not yet approved the project, nor has fund-raising officially begun. But a model and renderings are on display in the football office, leading coach Ted Roof to remark that it’s obviously past the “let’s gather some information stage.”

“It’s a very necessary project for us to continue to build our football program,” he says.

A primary feature of the stadium enhancement plan is a new concourse with modern restrooms, concessions stands and reserved areas for Iron Dukes. Club level seats, luxury suites and a new president’s box structure on the east side, mirroring the Finch-Yeager Building, also are incorporated into the plan.

One of the most striking changes would be the redesigned north gate entrance near the Yoh Football Center. It would include a new plaza and fan zone, ticket pavilion, message board, scoreboard and video system.

[hughgs]

Stadium Upgrades Gaining Ground (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1178931)

Does anyone know if they are planning on adding parking? The changes to the concourse look like they would remove quite a number of parking spots from a campus that seems to be always losing parking.

[SilkyJ]

Some people actually do want Duke to win in football. Better facilities can only help us in that regard.

I am a huge fan of duke football, and went to more games than 90% of people
while there. I want better facilities, but I also want a million dollars, and I dont go to the off topic board talking about how i want someone to hand me a million bucks as I walk down the street, cause it isnt gonna happen.



And the arms race in college football will force us to upgrade if we want to remain in the ACC. Everyone - everyone - is pumping big money into its facilities. Check out Wake Forest's plans: http://wakeforestfacilities.com/tour_renderings.htm It may be excessive, but Duke University can't sit this one out.

The notion that we our spot in the ACC is in jeopardy (and these other sentiments about dropping out of the ACC that come from other posters) are so crazy I'm not even sure what people are talking about. We have had some good football teams since entering the ACC, but over the last 20 years we havent been that good, and have been in the bottom half or quarter an overwhelming majority of those years.

But guess what we are Duke, and we have the most recognizable basketball program in the country for over 10-15 years now. The most recognizable coach in the game, and are what many consider the epitome integrity and of combining overall academics and athletics, especially in football, where we win that graduation award it seems like every year.

We bring in huge $$ for the league in bball, especially when we go deep in the tourney, and the UNC/Duke game is the highest grossing game for the league, year in and year out. The ACC loves us, we dont have to do anything to remain in the ACC.

I am glad though that we are starting to invest in the stadium. I really, truly, believe we are poised for some success this year and next year. We have lots of young talent, and I think these rennovations will help Roof recruit even more (and he's done a great job so far) til we are back to going to bowl games!

[Bluedawg]

"and soccer"

With the track, I don't think the field is big enough to host a big-time soccer event. An American football field is 60 yards wide. You need about 20 more yards of width to be a good size for international competition, and I'm pretty sure the back corners of the endone are pretty much right up against the track.

If you're going to upgrade the stadium thinking about events other than Duke football, you'd have to choose between track and soccer.

Soccer is played in Koskinen Stadium...That should not affect Wallace Wade.

[Bluedawg]

Does anyone know if they are planning on adding parking? The changes to the concourse look like they would remove quite a number of parking spots from a campus that seems to be always losing parking.

I don't think parking will be affected. The picture is from the North end and there is no parking there anyway. i didn't see anything about them moving east and west, which would affect parking.

[Capn Poptart]

I am a huge fan of duke football, and went to more games than 90% of people
while there. I want better facilities, but I also want a million dollars, and I dont go to the off topic board talking about how i want someone to hand me a million bucks as I walk down the street, cause it isnt gonna happen.

I guess I don't understand your point. I think you said in your first post that these improvements won't happen for 15-20 years, if at all. Is that what you're saying above? Do you think that other fundraising priorities will supercede football's plans?

No, I don't think we'll get booted out of the conference if we don't turn it around in football. My point was that with the rest of the league pumping bazillions into grand stadium projects, Duke really doesn't have much choice except to upgrade if we want to be remotely competitive in football. In terms of facilities, if we want to attract fans and recruits, we have to at least be in the same neighborhood as our ACC rivals. If every house on the block is immaculate and well-maintained, you don't want to be the guy with the peeling paint, knee-high grass and falling gutters.

[DevilAlumna]

the rest of the league pumping bazillions into grand stadium projects ....

if we want to attract fans and recruits, we have to at least be in the same neighborhood as our ACC rivals. If every house on the block is immaculate and well-maintained, you don't want to be the guy with the peeling paint, knee-high grass and falling gutters.

Well, apparently the Orange Bowl, even with $200M to be pumped in by the local authorities, just isn't immaculate enough for our ACC foe, Miami.

I have to think that playing in the same stadium as the Miami Dolphins will give UM a leg up on recruiting. (I wonder who would win in the College vs. Pro scrimmage there....)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=ahianYWFRq0o&refer=home


University of Miami will play its home football games at Dolphin Stadium starting next season, leaving the Orange Bowl after 70 years.

The school decided to make the move for the 2008 season, even after Miami city officials said they would spend more than $200 million to upgrade the 72-year-old Orange Bowl. The university said it has signed a 25-year contract with Dolphin Stadium.

[hughgs]

I don't think parking will be affected. The picture is from the North end and there is no parking there anyway. i didn't see anything about them moving east and west, which would affect parking.

You obviously haven't parked in that area during the week, or during the weekend when games don't occur. A large majority of the current concourse is used for parking, I would estimate close to 100 spots. The picture shows some landscaping and such and seems to preclude parking on the new concourse. So, my question still remains, does anyone know what happens to those parking spots?

[SilkyJ]

I guess I don't understand your point. I think you said in your first post that these improvements won't happen for 15-20 years, if at all. Is that what you're saying above? Do you think that other fundraising priorities will supercede football's plans?

This is kinda my fault for not being more clear, but what I was saying is that I dont think we would get a NEW stadium for 15-20 years (see bolded part below). When I wrote that I had just read a couple posts about new stadiums, and not about rennovations, so I thought that was more of the flow of the thread, but really more people are suggesting improvements than replacements...

I think some basic rennovations, like we are doing now are good, and are all we really need for now.


I really dont understand why we even discuss this. Does anyone really think this will happen in the next 20 years? No one goes to Duke football games. The stadium is rarely even Half-Full. The opposing teams quite often have more fans show up to the games then we do. Hardly any students go to the games, although that will change once we start winning ;)

I just dont see this happening until we have a string of good seasons and start going to bowl games on a regular basis. I think that will cause a bump in fan attendance and that will get the juices flowing for a new stadium, but I dont see that happening for at least 10-15 years. And then it takes several years of talking about it just to make it happen...

[Capn Poptart]

Gotcha.

Yeah. I don't remember what UConn spent for their totally new stadium, but it was a pile of money, and the state legislature paid most of it, I think. Much more than the $75 mil which is Alleva's first ballpark figure for the stuff in the WW renderings.

[g4orce]

I know that we are aways a bit from specifics installed at the stadium, but one would be completely amiss if hand railings weren't included. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people stumble or fall into other fans b/c there are no handrails. The short step is bad enough, especially for those with shoes size 11 or higher, but handrails are a must.

That and ... BRING BACK COSMIC CANTINA!

Long time sufferer of Duke football, but jazzed as all heck about the uocoming season. I see bright things ahead. (I hope it isn't a train!)

G

[SilkyJ]

That and ... BRING BACK COSMIC CANTINA!


I went to a game last year and got a cosmic burrito (not to mention blooming onion and fried snickers bar). Whatcha talkin bout?

[formerdukeathlete]

Gotcha.

Yeah. I don't remember what UConn spent for their totally new stadium, but it was a pile of money, and the state legislature paid most of it, I think. Much more than the $75 mil which is Alleva's first ballpark figure for the stuff in the WW renderings.

Stanford's new stadium was completed for around $100 million.

I'd have to think that the planned renovations for Wade will cost less than $75 million, even including (eventually, hopefully) lowering the field, bringing seats to the field, and building a new track complex. How much can the luxury suite building cost, and the redo of bathrooms, concessions, concourse? It just seems to me that costs canl be lower.

[DevilAlumna]

Construction costs are rising substantially, year over year. The "Federal Times" had an article two days ago that said costs for building commercial space had risen 30% over the past three years.

If it cost Stanford $100M two years ago (started in 2006, opened in 2007), I can see that a similar stadium would be close to $125M now; so $75M for a renovation that starts in a couple years seems to be inline.

[Bluedawg]

You obviously haven't parked in that area during the week, or during the weekend when games don't occur. A large majority of the current concourse is used for parking, I would estimate close to 100 spots. The picture shows some landscaping and such and seems to preclude parking on the new concourse. So, my question still remains, does anyone know what happens to those parking spots?

True...I was thinking on game day...i stand corrected!

[g4orce]

I went to a game last year and got a cosmic burrito (not to mention blooming onion and fried snickers bar). Whatcha talkin bout?

My wife was pregnant last year and began craving the chicken cosmic burrito, and was the only way that I could tempt her to go the games with me. Imagine our complete surprise when we found out that they weren't available anymore. I don't know if only 1 stand had them, but we walked all over the stadium looking for those large wraps of love. We ended up leaving at halftime, drove over to Cosmic, and brough back several for our friends around us. Ended up being a routine before the games.

Having said that... I'm jazzed about the upcoming season and about WW being upgraded. It;'s about time! I'm tired of standing in a pool of urine when I go to the restroom. Nothing says first-class like a leaky urinal-trough.:(

[Bluedawg]

I can not find anywhere where the idea of lowering the field or moving the track is proposed. in fact Aleva has said that the track will not go away.

That said, the wall around the field is about 6'-7" high. There is no way to get seats on there that will have any view of the game.

[formerdukeathlete]

I can not find anywhere where the idea of lowering the field or moving the track is proposed. in fact Aleva has said that the track will not go away.

That said, the wall around the field is about 6'-7" high. There is no way to get seats on there that will have any view of the game.

Check the N&O for an article - archives in the last 4 months - in which the series of proposed renovations including removing the running track were mentioned.

Roof, Alleva, some Trustees, Dasenzo like the idea. A number of Division 1 programs have renovated stadiums in this fashion.

To add seats, you bring in the bulldozers, excavate the field and track down to the level desired, extend the stadium down to the field, and then redo the field surface. This is a relatively inexpensive way to add seats. And the seats added are very good seats. The field would still be 6 to 10 feet below the last row of added seats. The stadium gets louder. It would work very well at Wade.

What I take away from the AD announcements is that this phase would be a ways down the road, rather than entirely ruled out.

[Bluedawg]

Check the N&O for an article - archives in the last 4 months - in which the series of proposed renovations including removing the running track were mentioned.

Roof, Alleva, some Trustees, Dasenzo like the idea. A number of Division 1 programs have renovated stadiums in this fashion.

To add seats, you bring in the bulldozers, excavate the field and track down to the level desired, extend the stadium down to the field, and then redo the field surface. This is a relatively inexpensive way to add seats. And the seats added are very good seats. The field would still be 6 to 10 feet below the last row of added seats. The stadium gets louder. It would work very well at Wade.

What I take away from the AD announcements is that this phase would be a ways down the road, rather than entirely ruled out.


Thanks for that...I'll look up the N&O articles. I'm not sure how I missed them.

As far as the track i was basing it on the GoDuke article (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22490&SPID=1835&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1097506) that said


A model of proposed renovations currently on display does not include a track surrounding the football playing field, but, according to director of athletics Joe Alleva, the example was intended to showcase the many proposed additions to the stadium and not the removal of the track surface.

[NYC Duke Fan]

I read recently that the administration had committed to up-grade the facilities at Wallace Wade. Does anyone have any specifics ? When will it begin ? What are the up=grades ? Is there anything else that the administration has committed to do with regard to Duke Football ?

Thank you

[4decadedukie]

The details have been published and I strongly suspect they are available on the GoDuke.com website; as I recall, this first stage (~$5M ?) includes: (a) new rest rooms, (b) a new concourse with state-of-the-art refreshment and "Duke stuff" sales facilities and with enhances portals; and (c) some seating improvements. The eventual plan, as I recall, goes much further, with separate/enhanced seating for season ticket holders/Iron Dukes and even some stand-alone "luxury boxes." I recommend you get definitive information from the Duke Athletic Department's website.

As for "anything else that the administration has committed to do with regard to Duke Football," it is clear that the coaching payroll has been SIGNIFICANTGLY increased and it is also my understanding that some admissions concessions have been agreed to, which would allow qualified -- but not academically stellar -- football players to be accepted (however, they would have to be likely to meet Duke's academic demands and to graduate . . . the simple fact is, the overwhelming majority of those not admitted to Duke's undergraduate schools, would succeed quite well at Trinity or Pratt, if matriculated).

[Mike Corey]

I read recently that the administration had committed to up-grade the facilities at Wallace Wade. Does anyone have any specifics ? When will it begin ? What are the up=grades ? Is there anything else that the administration has committed to do with regard to Duke Football ?

Thank you

Significant changes are absolutely in store.

When Coach Cutcliffe was introduced, Joe Alleva spoke of a new scoreboard, a new football building, improved aesthetics and so forth. There may be one other surprise in store in 2012 or so.

I have a feeling a more detailed and specific timeline will be publicized in a few days. :)

[devildeac]

Significant changes are absolutely in store.

When Coach Cutcliffe was introduced, Joe Alleva spoke of a new scoreboard, a new football building, improved aesthetics and so forth. There may be one other surprise in store in 2012 or so.

I have a feeling a more detailed and specific timeline will be publicized in a few days. :)

A surprise in 2012 or so? Why would a national championship in 2012 or so be a surprise;) ?

[OldPhiKap]

A surprise in 2012 or so? Why would a national championship in 2012 or so be a surprise;) ?


Because it would be a three-peat!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

A surprise in 2012 or so? Why would a national championship in 2012 or so be a surprise ?


Because it would be a three-peat!

Looks like my enthusiasm is contagious! It's spreading like wild fire! Come on and join the party y'all!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little irrational exuberance! If only Alan Greenspan had know that in 2000...

[Bluedawg]

Does the strategic plan call for changing the benches for seat back?

[Bluedawg]

This was supposed to be :

Wallace Wade upgrades revisited

[Indoor66]

Does the strategic plan call for changing the benches for seat back?

I hope so but I don't recall anything about the seats in the material I saw on the board.

[Indoor66]

I found this site with some interesting information about Wallace Wade Stadium. The site has info about most all sporting arenas.

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/ACC/Duke/index.htm

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I found this site with some interesting information about Wallace Wade Stadium. The site has info about most all sporting arenas.

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/ACC/Duke/index.htm

Thanks for this link. Reading the historical background clarified some of my dad's stories about games he attended. He spoke of attending the Pitt game as a student (Class of '33) when the stadium was dedicated; he talked about the snow at the Pitt game. It always sounded to me as if it were a single game.... I was a child hearing these stories. Now I know that there were two games!

I also loved reading about how Wallace Wade got to Duke!

[GrayHare]

I found this site with some interesting information about Wallace Wade Stadium. The site has info about most all sporting arenas.

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/ACC/Duke/index.htm

Just for the record, the text is by William King, the Duke University archivist (see Wallace Wade Stadium (http://library.duke.edu/uarchives/history/histnotes/wade_stadium.html)).

[Atldukie79]

If you would like the complete story of Wallace Wade and how he ended up at Duke, I suggest you find the recently published book "Wallace Wade" by Lewis Bowling. I know it is sold at the Bryan Center. To my knowledge, it is the only book published about Wade and his remarkable career.

[duke'61]

Thanks GrayHare for the notice of the posting on the history of Wallace Wade Stadium. The text in football.ballparks.com is indeed mine and completely plagerized. It is from my book If Gargoyles Could Talk with no permission or attribution. Bill King