MBB: Duke 76, Elon 54 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[Saratoga2]

Good win by more than 20. Good performances by Mason in 21 minutes, Quinn and Rasheed in the 30's each. Also, Tyler chipped in well although there were a couple of turnovers he needs to avoid.

From game tracker it was hard to understand the flow of the game. It did seem like Seth didn't have his offensive game tonight and Ryan was missing a lot around the basket.

For quite a long time we seemed to shoot mainly 3's. Was Elon in a zone?

Free throw shooting was awful tonight and we looked rusty from the line. We can't give away that many against a truly competitive team.

The rebounding was improved and Quinn actually got 9. We won the offensive and total rebounding wars, which is something good to see.

Alex didn't get much burn tonight and must not have been impressive in practice. When some of our main guys are struggling offensively, he might be an effective alternative. I guess we won't know.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Good win by more than 20. Good performances by Mason in 21 minutes, Quinn and Rasheed in the 30's each. Also, Tyler chipped in well although there were a couple of turnovers he needs to avoid.

From game tracker it was hard to understand the flow of the game. It did seem like Seth didn't have his offensive game tonight and Ryan was missing a lot around the basket.

For quite a long time we seemed to shoot mainly 3's. Was Elon in a zone?

Free throw shooting was awful tonight and we looked rusty from the line. We can't give away that many against a truly competitive team.

The rebounding was improved and Quinn actually got 9. We won the offensive and total rebounding wars, which is something good to see.

Alex didn't get much burn tonight and must not have been impressive in practice. When some of our main guys are struggling offensively, he might be an effective alternative. I guess we won't know.

Definitely not our best game. We played well, but nothing to write home about. IMO, I think the players looked really bored out there. I guess that's what happens when you have the most excited November in the history of the NCAA.

Mason played well, Kelly was open a lot, and Thornton played one of his best games. All in all, decent win.

[-bdbd]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2012/12/20/78391_boxscore.html

Here's the link to the box score. ESPNU had it blocked out in my area (northern VA) but it doesn't look like an impressive night for the Devils... Tired legs from playing back to back nights? Drained from the big cellebration following Jabari's big decision? Too much egg nog???

Mason continues to have an All-American sort of year. But as a team, how do you explain 43% (?!!) from the charity stripe? Funny note that we shot 14% better on threes than on ones! Other than TT it doesn't appear there was a lot of help off the bench either. Well, at least they've got some time to work on these things before the next game...

:rolleyes:

[camion]

The referees were "letting them play." It was a really physical game and good training for games to come. Not pretty, but a solid win.

It also showed why Amile needs to gain weight and strength. He was in good position several times but got out-muscled.

[OldSchool]

Best play to my eyes was at the 2:10 mark of the first quarter.

Quinn and Mason ran the pick and roll at the top of the key. Mason's man hedged, and Mason rolled to the rim. Quinn threw it over the top, beyond the reach of the defender. Mason went up and got it and scored the ball. With the proper timing and a PG who can pass accurately, this play is extremely hard to defend.

We have a passing point guard who can run the pick and roll and make use of the big man roll option! Go Quinn!

[DBFAN]

I was at the game tonight and I think there was one thing that was really in their mind more than anything else, and that was going home for Christmas. Which you can't blame em too much for that. And yes it was a very physical game

[sagegrouse]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2012/12/20/78391_boxscore.html

Here's the link to the box score. ESPNU had it blocked out in my area (northern VA) but it doesn't look like an impressive night for the Devils... Tired legs from playing back to back nights? Drained from the big cellebration following Jabari's big decision? Too much egg nog???

Mason continues to have an All-American sort of year. But as a team, how do you explain 43% (?!!) from the charity stripe? Funny note that we shot 14% better on threes than on ones! Other than TT it doesn't appear there was a lot of help off the bench either. Well, at least they've got some time to work on these things before the next game...

:rolleyes:

Easy! Your best FT shooter goes 1-5. Take him out of the stats, and they are borderline respectable: 6-11. There were only 16 FTs attempted by Duke.

sage

[devildeac]

Easy! Your best FT shooter goes 1-5. Take him out of the stats, and they are borderline respectable: 6-11. There were only 16 FTs attempted by Duke.

sage

We should have checked to see if we could take our FT from 20.75 feet considering we were 11/19 from that distance tonight:rolleyes:;).

[snowdenscold]

ESPNU had it blocked out in my area (northern VA) but it doesn't look like an impressive night for the Devils...

I'm in NoVa and got it on ESPNU through Verizon FiOS. Which provider do you have?

[Edouble]

Easy! Your best FT shooter goes 1-5. Take him out of the stats, and they are borderline respectable: 6-11. There were only 16 FTs attempted by Duke.

sage

Sage, you are a good guy and I like most of your posts... but I must strongly disagree with you on this one, sir.

Through this week, in NCAA Div I play, 341 out of 345 teams are shooting at least 56% from the line.

6-11 (55%) is certainly not respectable, not even borderline.

[Bob Green]

I agree with the comments that it wasn't our best performance, but I believe Elon deserves a lot of credit. They are a talented team who played us hard. Their point guard was quick and Troutman (6'10) and Koch (6'8") both have good size. It was a good win.

Our ball handling/distribution continues to be outstanding. Cook and Thornton combined for seven assists with only two turnovers. That isn't anywhere near the 17:1 game they combined for against Cornell but again Elon is a much better opponent.

[tele]

Merry Christmas Duke, Dukies and Duke fans! Great Season so far!

[oldnavy]

I got the sense that our kids were not in the game mentally. They played well and at times very well, but nothing like they did the night before. Two things, they played exceptionally well against Cornell and you have to give credit to Elon, who fought very hard and was a very physical game.

The refs did let them play which I like to see. I think the physical nature of the game knocked us back a bit at first, because a lot of the contact that was going on would have been called in the past 10 games. Once we adjusted to that, we did pretty well.

Even K said they were a little tired mentally. They have had an amazing pre-Christmas run and also have been through exams, so I think they did VERY well given the past months pace and level of competition.

Merry Christmas to the whole team and coaching staff, I hope that they all enjoy there break, it is WELL deserved!!!

p.s. GET WELL MARSHALL we really want to see you on the floor after Christmas!!!

[cspan37421]

From what I saw, it was more than just a physical game. Elon threw a number of cheap shot elbows at our guys. I think it was Quinn who caught one in the chin or thereabouts, and Mason took one in the midsection on the way up to the basket for a lay-in (which he missed). So much for the plucky and honorable underdog.

[roywhite]

Elon played pretty well at times. I think we saw the recipe for competing against Duke -- patient offense with dribble penetration and get some open shots.

It was a physical game and by the second half, the Devils had adjusted well and grabbed rebounds and loose balls.

I'd like to see some of our guys finish better around the basket. Josh Hairston just doesn't seem to have the hands or poise in traffic, though he gets his share of put-backs. Amile was in good position a few times and lacked the strength to score. Biggest disappointment in this area IMO is Ryan Kelly, who just doesn't seem to have a good touch when he is on the move within 5 or 6 feet from the basket---often puts if off the glass too hard or at a bad angle; maybe the short pullup jumper is a better option for him. Just a minor gripe overall for this team, which has been terrific thusfar.

Happy Holidays to the team and DBR fans.

[BD80]

We should have checked to see if we could take our FT from 20.75 feet considering we were 11/19 from that distance tonight:rolleyes:;).

Maybe its more like the "Sundance Kid" enigma, after failing to prove any profiency with a pistol from a standing position, he inquires: "can I move?"

[Billy Dat]

(Disclaimer - I have not yet watched the final 8 minutes of this game)

As roywhite pointed out, the primary issue in the first half was our inability to finish baskets. Many have commented on the physical nature of the game. That may be true, but we just failed to finish a bunch of shots we'd usually make - shots at the rim, good looks from mid-range, squared up open 3s by good shooters. As a result, we kind of started hunting individual shots with little success. Quinn was a prime culprit in that sense, he threw a few ill advised floaters up and took a bad shot off of a steal that resulted in K pulling him. We also had an uncharacteristic number of unforced turnovers - a few traveling violations, etc. That being said, our defense was good. They had only 27 points at half and shot under 40% as a team.

We had a real momentum swing right at the end of the half as we pushed a 5 point lead to 8 on a Quinn Cook running 35 footer as time expired. We came out in the second half much more in rhythm on offense and put the game away by mid first half.

-Mason put up 21 and 15 in 28 minutes. That is impressive. Had he shot better from the line, his line would have been insane. His foul shooting has not been great these past few games, I hope its not a regression to the mean.

-Ryan's ability to drive on his man is really important. He didn't finish well off of those drives, and he needs to get better at passing off of those drives, but there are many times when our offense bogs down and his drives open things up. It's a key weapon and one that I hope he and the coaches continue to exploit and develop.

100 Non Conference Games in a row - pretty sweet!

[sagegrouse]

Sage, you are a good guy and I like most of your posts... but I must strongly disagree with you on this one, sir.

Through this week, in NCAA Div I play, 341 out of 345 teams are shooting at least 56% from the line.

6-11 (55%) is certainly not respectable, not even borderline.

I am sure I fully deserve this comeuppance. I was thinking, however, that 11 free throws is a very small sample size. If the probability of making a FT is 0.74 (the current Duke average), then making 6 instead of the expected 8 is off by less than 1.5 standard deviations -- i.e., not statistically significant. There. Now I deserve even more opprobrium

sageghrouse

[OldPhiKap]

I am sure I fully deserve this comeuppance. I was thinking, however, that 11 free throws is a very small sample size. If the probability of making a FT is 0.74 (the current Duke average), then making 6 instead of the expected 8 is off by less than 1.5 standard deviations -- i.e., not statistically significant. There. Now I deserve even more opprobrium

sageghrouse

Is this a math test or a vocabulary test?

As for the game, we slogged through it and got to the break. Rest up, enjoy the holidays and our bowl game, back at it soon enough.

[COYS]

I thought it was our offense that struggled more than our defense. We had a few breakdowns on defense, but otherwise we were switching and helping really well. Far more often than not, Elon moved the ball just as their coach probably drew up on the sideline and our guys switched and helped off their man flawlessly to prevent open shots. There were some errors, but most of those errors came when guys gambled for steals and lost (this happened to Quinn, Tyler, Rasheed and Mason a few times and probably some others). I think they may have gotten a little steal happy after we got so many against Cornell. Quinn was guilty of reaching instead of moving his feet a few times (which was too bad, because when he did move his feet he did a good job staying with Elon's quick point guard), although he also succeeded in poking the ball away a number of times.

Offensively, however, we just weren't finishing plays. Some of it was due to the physicality of the game, but some of it was simply our guys missing layups. Ryan had a number of nice drives that resulted in missed layups, as did Quinn. Mason shot a great percentage, overall, but missed a few makable shots as well. And while Quinn and Rasheed did a good job distributing for the most part, I thought they were both guilty of failing to set up the offense before making their move on a few occasions.

All in all, though, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Our defense was actually pretty solid (and the game took us all the way up to 8th in KenPom's defense rankings). We have proven that they can score just about as well as anyone in the nation. I have no problem with the team proving they can defend with the best, as well. Funny enough, we flipped the script in this game a little bit. Instead of shooting a high percentage on offense and playing tough defense while conceding a number of defensive rebounds, we rebounded extremely well on both ends of the court and used second chance points to counteract a poor shooting night. It may not have been the prettiest win, but considering it was the second game of a back to back stretch, it was still a positive showing from the Devils.

[TruBlu]

I am sure I fully deserve this comeuppance. I was thinking, however, that 11 free throws is a very small sample size. If the probability of making a FT is 0.74 (the current Duke average), then making 6 instead of the expected 8 is off by less than 1.5 standard deviations -- i.e., not statistically significant. There. Now I deserve even more opprobrium

sageghrouse

I thought ENGLISH was the approved language on DBR; what language is this? Or is it a sneaky way to get around the filters.

p.s. Isn't Opprobrium a banned drug?

[OldPhiKap]

p.s. Isn't Opprobrium a banned drug?

I thought it was a punk band, or something I hit in the middle of the road driving home.

[Newton_14]

(Disclaimer - I have not yet watched the final 8 minutes of this game)

As roywhite pointed out, the primary issue in the first half was our inability to finish baskets. Many have commented on the physical nature of the game. That may be true, but we just failed to finish a bunch of shots we'd usually make - shots at the rim, good looks from mid-range, squared up open 3s by good shooters. As a result, we kind of started hunting individual shots with little success. Quinn was a prime culprit in that sense, he threw a few ill advised floaters up and took a bad shot off of a steal that resulted in K pulling him.

It's the simple things in life that matter. Last night was just a reminder. Two simple stories for you, one of which was the funniest thing I have seen in Cameron in years, perhaps ever. One is related to the bold-ed part of your post. We have the greatest coach in the world but he is also the funniest. At the very next time out after what you write about above, K had one of his famous animated timeouts. It was hilarious. He was acting out his view of those "ill-advised" shots. Flailing his arms about and ripping all of them (not just Quinn) for the style of shot they were putting up, then showing them the proper shooting motion, then back to the flailing like they had been attempting shots. Face beat red, pointing at Quinn, then Ryan, then Mase, back to Quinn, he got em all before the TO ended. Priceless. Funny thing is, he was dead on. It was not the shot or the position on the floor, it was the ad hoc shooting motions that neither drew fouls nor had a chance to go in. K being K. I should have videoed it.

But that's not the winner. The funniest thing happened late in the first half. Game is still tight, and Elon scores in the paint a couple of possessions in a row, and Tyler Thornton is livid. His blood is boiling. After receiving the in-bounds pass, he waits until it is just him in the back court, and he turns to the Duke bench, flails his arms ala K, and screams at the coaching staff and I quote "Tell them to play some bleeping defense!!", then heads up the floor. A dead ball happened on that possession and K took Mason out, which just seemed to fit with the moment. We have had some great leaders over the years, but Tyler will rank among the best of them before he is done.

[oldnavy]

It's the simple things in life that matter. Last night was just a reminder. Two simple stories for you, one of which was the funniest thing I have seen in Cameron in years, perhaps ever. One is related to the bold-ed part of your post. We have the greatest coach in the world but he is also the funniest. At the very next time out after what you write about above, K had one of his famous animated timeouts. It was hilarious. He was acting out his view of those "ill-advised" shots. Flailing his arms about and ripping all of them (not just Quinn) for the style of shot they were putting up, then showing them the proper shooting motion, then back to the flailing like they had been attempting shots. Face beat red, pointing at Quinn, then Ryan, then Mase, back to Quinn, he got em all before the TO ended. Priceless. Funny thing is, he was dead on. It was not the shot or the position on the floor, it was the ad hoc shooting motions that neither drew fouls nor had a chance to go in. K being K. I should have videoed it.

But that's not the winner. The funniest thing happened late in the first half. Game is still tight, and Elon scores in the paint a couple of possessions in a row, and Tyler Thornton is livid. His blood is boiling. After receiving the in-bounds pass, he waits until it is just him in the back court, and he turns to the Duke bench, flails his arms ala K, and screams at the coaching staff and I quote "Tell them to play some bleeping defense!!", then heads up the floor. A dead ball happened on that possession and K took Mason out, which just seemed to fit with the moment. We have had some great leaders over the years, but Tyler will rank among the best of them before he is done.

Newt Watching from home, I saw the timeout where K was doing his impersonation of the team. It was funny. He panomimed lackadaisically dribbling the ball up the court and then how they were being causal about shooting it... I have it taped so I will watch it again for more laughs...

I too LOVE Tyler Thornton. He is such a "pest" to the other team in addition to being a leader. On one shot, he was under the basket on defense and the shot went in, he took his arm and just pushed the Elon guy enough to aggravate him, but not draw a foul. Classic TT. He does so many things well, and he can knock down a three when he is open. But most importantly, he is spunky and like you said a true leader.

[DukieInBrasil]

Newt Watching from home, I saw the timeout where K was doing his impersonation of the team. It was funny. He panomimed lackadaisically dribbling the ball up the court and then how they were being causal about shooting it... I have it taped so I will watch it again for more laughs...

I too LOVE Tyler Thornton. He is such a "pest" to the other team in addition to being a leader. On one shot, he was under the basket on defense and the shot went in, he took his arm and just pushed the Elon guy enough to aggravate him, but not draw a foul. Classic TT. He does so many things well, and he can knock down a three when he is open. But most importantly, he is spunky and like you said a true leader.

And shooting 3s is almost all that TT has done this year. In fact, through 11 games he has only taken a comically low 3 shots from inside the 3pt line. He's 2-3 on 2pt shots for the year. his .357 marksmanship from 3 is decent enough, but if ALL he is going to do is take 3s then his value to the team would improve alot if his 3pt shooting improved some too. TT definitely brings lots of valuable things to the table for this team, and improving from 3 would make his value go up much more.

[Ggallagher]

(Disclaimer - I have not yet watched the final 8 minutes of this game)


>>We had a real momentum swing right at the end of the half as we pushed a 5 point lead to 8 on a Quinn Cook running 35 footer as time expired. We came out in the second half much more in rhythm on offense and put the game away by mid first half.

100 Non Conference Games in a row - pretty sweet!

I don't know if anyone else caught this on Quinn's shot - I sure didn't. But one of the stories reviewed yesterday on ESPN's "Around The Horn" was a discussion of this shot.
What I hadn't noticed was that the Crazies "fake shot-clocked" the Elon team and may have forced them into taking their last shot five or six seconds earlier than they needed to. In the replay on the program, you could clearly hear the Crazie's chanting, " eight, seven, six, five..." But they were about five seconds ahead of the actual clock.
Elon put their shot up, and after the rebound Quinn's shot dropped through as the buzzer went off. Without an early shot by Elon, Quinn wouldn't have scored.

Not a bad effort Crazies, not bad at all..

[Kedsy]

I don't know if anyone else caught this on Quinn's shot - I sure didn't. But one of the stories reviewed yesterday on ESPN's "Around The Horn" was a discussion of this shot.
What I hadn't noticed was that the Crazies "fake shot-clocked" the Elon team and may have forced them into taking their last shot five or six seconds earlier than they needed to. In the replay on the program, you could clearly hear the Crazie's chanting, " eight, seven, six, five..." But they were about five seconds ahead of the actual clock.
Elon put their shot up, and after the rebound Quinn's shot dropped through as the buzzer went off. Without an early shot by Elon, Quinn wouldn't have scored.

Not a bad effort Crazies, not bad at all..

I did notice it while I was watching. But they do it all the time, don't they? Anytime the shot clock is winding down, right? In fact, the Crazies do this so often I don't understand why the other teams ever go for it.

[roywhite]

And shooting 3s is almost all that TT has done this year. In fact, through 11 games he has only taken a comically low 3 shots from inside the 3pt line. He's 2-3 on 2pt shots for the year. his .357 marksmanship from 3 is decent enough, but if ALL he is going to do is take 3s then his value to the team would improve alot if his 3pt shooting improved some too. TT definitely brings lots of valuable things to the table for this team, and improving from 3 would make his value go up much more.

Nice catch, DinB...interesting stat. Made me wonder about Wojo, who also shot more 3's than 2's

Wojo's career stats from goduke.com (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=380)

Looks like even Wojo had a higher percentage of 2-pt attempts among his total than TT does this year.

Though I doubt Wojo has much effect on Tyler's game, since Wojo is pre-occupied with the bigs. :)

[Ggallagher]

I did notice it while I was watching. But they do it all the time, don't they? Anytime the shot clock is winding down, right? In fact, the Crazies do this so often I don't understand why the other teams ever go for it.

I'm pretty sure you're right on both points:
They pretty much do it every time..
and, it's a wonder anyone falls for it.

Worked out really nice for Quinn this time though

[uh_no]

I'm pretty sure you're right on both points:
They pretty much do it every time..
and, it's a wonder anyone falls for it.

Worked out really nice for Quinn this time though

instinct. Who when they were a kid playing ball in the driveway didn't count down and pretend to make a last second game winning shot....

when you hear people counting down, you take the shot....now, for ACC teams who come in and play every year, they probably know what to expect....but for teams that aren't used to it, I can understand how they would fall for it.

[NSDukeFan]

And shooting 3s is almost all that TT has done this year. In fact, through 11 games he has only taken a comically low 3 shots from inside the 3pt line. He's 2-3 on 2pt shots for the year. his .357 marksmanship from 3 is decent enough, but if ALL he is going to do is take 3s then his value to the team would improve alot if his 3pt shooting improved some too. TT definitely brings lots of valuable things to the table for this team, and improving from 3 would make his value go up much more.
Wow! The team has to start running the offense through Tyler of he is the team's best two point shooter at 66.7%. I will still never understand why Coach K never used the greatest 3 point shooter in school history more. I am, of course, talking about the original MP, who I believe shot 100% on 3s at Duke, which is a pretty good percentage. [/in jest]