Amusing from IC

[grossbus]

A thread about lamenting Jabari coming to Duke contains this post trying to ease their concerns.


It's okay folks ... Calm down! It could be worse ... we could be losing games by 20 points, playing suspect defense, struggling on offense, and looking lost in games against quality opponents ...


Another post asked if this and next year's could be forwarded.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't know about forwarded, but they can keep phoning it in for another year or two.

[grossbus]

Forfeited...

iPad autocorrect got me

[flyingdutchdevil]

Forfeited...

iPad autocorrect got me

Actually, forwarded works just as well, if not better. Speaks to the language of IC ;)

Also, I love IC. It's chicken little 24/7. Whenever you're in a bad mood, just go to IC. Like chicken noodle soup, it'll make you feel better right away.

[Kedsy]

Actually, forwarded works just as well, if not better. Speaks to the language of IC ;)

Also, I love IC. It's chicken little 24/7. Whenever you're in a bad mood, just go to IC. Like chicken noodle soup, it'll make you feel better right away.

You mean Chicken Little noodle soup?

[UrinalCake]

IC is a must read for any Duke fan. Currently lots of threads discussing whether they'll make the NIT, whether Roy should step down, why they can't recruit, how it's possible they brought in a center who makes John Henson look buff by comparison, etc. schadenfreude at its absolute best. A couple threads even go so far as to explore the notion that Coach K might actually be a better coach tha Roy.

[flyingdutchdevil]

IC is a must read for any Duke fan. Currently lots of threads discussing whether they'll make the NIT, whether Roy should step down, why they can't recruit, how it's possible they brought in a center who makes John Henson look buff by comparison, etc. schadenfreude at its absolute best. A couple threads even go so far as to explore the notion that Coach K might actually be a better coach tha Roy.

Sadly, this may happen to us when Coach K steps down. Roy is a really good coach, one of the best in the country. But he is peanuts compared to Dean Smith. And, to tell the truth, our next coach will look minuscule compared to Coach K. It's the curse that comes with having a top 3 basketball coach of all time.

[hurleyfor3]

IC is a must read for any Duke fan.

In very, very small doses. I can feel my brain starting to rot after two or three threads.

[-bdbd]

Sadly, this may happen to us when Coach K steps down. Roy is a really good coach, one of the best in the country. But he is peanuts compared to Dean Smith. And, to tell the truth, our next coach will look minuscule compared to Coach K. It's the curse that comes with having a top 3 basketball coach of all time.

Good thing K will never leave, just keep recharging the battery pack!!! :rolleyes:

[davekay1971]

Sadly, this may happen to us when Coach K steps down. Roy is a really good coach, one of the best in the country. But he is peanuts compared to Dean Smith. And, to tell the truth, our next coach will look minuscule compared to Coach K. It's the curse that comes with having a top 3 basketball coach of all time.

Coach K is clearly top 3 all time.

Dean...not so much.

I'd put K and Wooden clearly top 2

Then there's the tier of Rupp, Knight, Boeheim, Dean, maybe Izzo, etc... If pressed, I'd put Knight and Boeheim ahead of Dean. Boeheim, frankly, hasn't gotten the credit he deserves. He's won national titles, he's about to be number 2 in games won, he's been a dominant force in a power conference for a long time, and his perfection of his zone defense is every bit as impressive an innovation as was Dean's Stall-ball. There's no question Dean's a legend, an icon, and one of the best coaches ever. But I don't think he's top 3 anymore.

[davekay1971]

"As bad as I hate to see Duke get him, I'll say he's a good kid by every report I've read. Now we need Wiggins baddddd... If the woofies get Randle dang you'll see me on suicide watch. When was the last time I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and woof were better than us in the same year? Never in my 48 years."

From IC. Dear lord, the poor Tarheel fans and their memories. Never in his 48 years? Well...there's this year, so that's one. And 2002, that's two. State and UNC can have a nice mud-wrestling match about 2010, I suppose...neither was particularly good, but State had a better regular season. 2004 State finished 2nd in the ACC and made the Sweet 16. So that's 3 times, maybe 4 in the last 10 years alone.

[BD80]

A thread about lamenting Jabari coming to Duke contains this post trying to ease their concerns.

Another post asked if this and next year's could be forwarded.

Luckily for the dean doomers, some of the disgraced unc AFAM administrators have arisen incognito in the athletic department (it is rumored they have been on the athletic department payroll for 11 years). Season ticket holders now no longer need suffer through tar heel basketball games, but they will still get attendance credit.

Question of the day: if half of the dean dome crowd leaves, does the volume level increase or decrease?

[UrinalCake]

In a weird way, I hope that State does get Randle, so that they can beat up on UNC. Even if it means they hand us a loss along the way too. As for Wiggins, I sure hope he reads those IC forums. Who in their right mind would want to play for fans like that? Not that the Cats Paws (UK) is any better...

[CarmenWallaceWade]

Of course now they have to look for a savior - and fast! I haven't been following Wiggins much. Anyone know where UNC stands with his recruitment?

[devildeac]

In very, very small doses. I can feel my brain starting to rot after two or three threads.

Threads? You read entire threads? I haven't visited there in years and my ophthalmic hemorrhaging usually started after 2-3 posts (2-3 words?):rolleyes:.

[JasonEvans]

Of course now they have to look for a savior - and fast! I haven't been following Wiggins much. Anyone know where UNC stands with his recruitment?

I think the general presumption is that Kentucky is the major leader for him. Kansas, Carolina, FSU, Ohio State, and several others are also in it, but most expect him to pick Kentucky.

-Jason "if none of the KY freshmen leave and they add Wiggins, they will likely be right there with us next year... but I think at least 2 or 3 of their freshmen will be gone" Evans

[Exiled_Devil]

Of course now they have to look for a savior - and fast! I haven't been following Wiggins much. Anyone know where UNC stands with his recruitment?

Wait, what?

Ender is a future college basketball player? Please, Lord, let the crazies run with this.

[snowdenscold]

Wait, what?

Ender is a future college basketball player? Please, Lord, let the crazies run with this.

OK, so I'm not the only one for whom that reference immediately sprang to mind. :D
I don't follow recruiting much, so I'm just hearing this name for the first time today.

[davekay1971]

The opponent's basket is down.

[striker219]

Wait, what?

Ender is a future college basketball player? Please, Lord, let the crazies run with this.

He is, and if he ends up at UNC we should be legitimately frightened, he's that good. Seriously, he doesn't lose. Everyone talks about two games in three days in March, well you could force him to play two games a day and he will still win. You could spring games on him without any warning or warm up time, and he will still win. Roy could send him out on the court with Blue Steel and he will still win. You could put two teams on the court against him and he'll still find a way to pull out a win.

It's a terrifying thought.

[davekay1971]

Ender is small and doesn't seem all that athletic. All he does is perform his best when it's all on the line, make everyone around him better, make his team perform to the peak of the team's collective abilities, and WIN.

Oh my God...Ender is Bobby Hurley.

[tele]

Forfeited...

iPad autocorrect got me

I don't know why they even call it auto correct, more of a random word generator. And as I was about to say in reply to Oldphikaps post, the ncaa may have them on "call waiting" anyway.

[Indoor66]

Question of the day: if half of the dean dome crowd leaves, does the volume level increase or decrease?

Obviously it increases. You would hear the seats rising and the shuffling feet.

[Matches]

From IC. Dear lord, the poor Tarheel fans and their memories. Never in his 48 years? Well...there's this year, so that's one. And 2002, that's two. State and UNC can have a nice mud-wrestling match about 2010, I suppose...neither was particularly good, but State had a better regular season. 2004 State finished 2nd in the ACC and made the Sweet 16. So that's 3 times, maybe 4 in the last 10 years alone.

2003 as well. Heels in the NIT, Wuffies made the real tournament and came a torrid JJ streak away from knocking us off in the ACC Finals.

[moonpie23]

2003 as well. Heels in the NIT, Wuffies made the real tournament and came a torrid JJ streak away from knocking us off in the ACC Finals.

i was at that game......we sat in the middle of some REALLY obnoxious state fans.....when it was looking bad for us, they started to really ride us hard......then, jj put on his cape and ruined their day....

[brevity]

Question of the day: if half of the dean dome crowd leaves, does the volume level increase or decrease?


Obviously it increases. You would hear the seats rising and the shuffling feet.

Exactly. Also the collective mumbling, "Left foot. Then right foot. Then left foot. Then right foot. Oh boy, stairs..."

[OldPhiKap]

Exactly. Also the collective mumbling, "Left foot. Then right foot. Then left foot. Then right foot. Oh boy, stairs..."

Don't forget the clanking of the wine glasses and cheese plates.

[gumbomoop]

Recruiting trends, ups and downs, cause joy or panic, as Jderf's law [and corollary re near future] obtains on both EK and IC:


As a DBR discussion grows longer, the probability of a debate between UNC and Duke's current teams/rosters approaches 1.

Just now, we're riding pretty high, esp because of Jabari Parker but also the upward movement in guru-land by Jones and Ojeleye. Not to mention Hood, about whom, so help me, Doris Burke commented Wed eve that some people say will be the best player in the country next season. [Hyperbole, surely, but still.....] Meanwhile, Hicks and Britt move down a bit, even if Meeks moves up. The sky is not Carolina blue, and is falling in, because on, CH.

For UNC fans, Wiggins is now an absolute "must." Here's what Heel pessimists are thinking [Wheat and others can confirm, deny, or amend this educated guess]: "Our team is a mess this season, while *%!*!@#!*$%$!! [accursed] Duke is actually pretty good. Now they got Parker, and Roy's in a slump, can't close on top-5 guys. What if Randle goes to State? State...... State...... Un-flippin-believable. What if K hits a triple in the class of '14 with Jones, Okafor, and Pinson? Maybe Winslow, too. Hope Paige and Britt transfer to UCLA, so Jones will come to CH and bring Okafor. Roy's only advantage over K is he's a better recruiter, and now we can't even count on that. And Roy isn't in Cal's league. Duke, State, UK, Indiana. We're becoming irrelevant. We gotta get Wiggins and Brad Stevens. Now. God bless him, but Roy needs to go play golf."

[grossbus]

"Oh my God...Ender is Bobby Hurley."

brilliant!

[CameronBlue]

Don't forget the clanking of the wine glasses and cheese plates.

Manischewitz and squirt cheese for the sophisticated palate.

[4Gen]

I can't see Wiggins or any one and done type going to Chapel Hill. If you're only going to play a year, you'd like a guarantee that your school will make the tourney.

[TruBlu]

I can't see Wiggins or any one and done type going to Chapel Hill. If you're only going to play a year, you'd like a guarantee that your school will make the tourney.

Or if you might be a potential lottery pick after playing one year, your coach talks you into staying . . . only to be "coached down" to a second round pick after your soph year.

[Big Pappa]

Of course now they have to look for a savior - and fast! I haven't been following Wiggins much. Anyone know where UNC stands with his recruitment?

It's a two-horse race between Kentucky and Florida State. UNC has virtually no shot.

[OldPhiKap]

It's a two-horse race between Kentucky and Florida State. UNC has virtually no shot.

Love to see him at FSU, kid is fun to watch and would like to see him in the conference for his short stay.

[FerryFor50]

Love to see him at FSU, kid is fun to watch and would like to see him in the conference for his short stay.

I'd rather watch him from afar, instead of torching us twice a year.

[UrinalCake]

Or if you might be a potential lottery pick after playing one year, your coach talks you into staying . . . only to be "coached down" to a second round pick after your soph year.

It's funny how there is an ongoing undercurrent at IC which suggests that Coach K is known for "brainwashing" his players into staying even when they'd be better off going pro. They point to guys like Mason, Kyle, Jason Williams and proclaim that Coach K forced them to stay or at the very least chose to advise them incorrectly, because he needed them to win games. They conveniently ignore other players who left earlier than expected (Dunleavy, Avery), or to whom Coach K gave his full blessing to leave early (Kyrie, Austin, countless others). Similarly, they ignore their own players like McAdoo who stick around (for too long, in this case).

[tommy]

It's funny how there is an ongoing undercurrent at IC which suggests that Coach K is known for "brainwashing" his players into staying even when they'd be better off going pro. They point to guys like Mason, Kyle, Jason Williams and proclaim that Coach K forced them to stay or at the very least chose to advise them incorrectly, because he needed them to win games. They conveniently ignore other players who left earlier than expected (Dunleavy, Avery), or to whom Coach K gave his full blessing to leave early (Kyrie, Austin, countless others). Similarly, they ignore their own players like McAdoo who stick around (for too long, in this case).

They also ignore that a guy like Kyle is an NBA starter right now, which he is unlikely to have been had he come out early, and that Mason has improved by about 1000% since his freshman or even his sophomore years when he could've come out. His chances of earning the second contract, which is the big money contract that sets you up for life, are far greater now than had he come out 2 or 3 years ago. But those realities are a little too fact-based for the tastes of our friends over on IC.

[niveklaen]

"Oh my God...Ender is Bobby Hurley."

brilliant!

Ender is good, but we should really be going after Bean.

[roywhite]

Reading some of the recent links (and in normally light-blue-friendly outlets like the Fayetteville Observer and Raleigh N&O), things aren't going well on the Hill. Team not coming together, players more interested in their own stats, lack of hustle, haven't settled on style of play, players going public with their gripes, Ole Roy approaching meltdown.

Does this team get it together or head south?

[Matches]

It's funny how there is an ongoing undercurrent at IC which suggests that Coach K is known for "brainwashing" his players into staying even when they'd be better off going pro. They point to guys like Mason, Kyle, Jason Williams and proclaim that Coach K forced them to stay or at the very least chose to advise them incorrectly, because he needed them to win games. They conveniently ignore other players who left earlier than expected (Dunleavy, Avery), or to whom Coach K gave his full blessing to leave early (Kyrie, Austin, countless others). Similarly, they ignore their own players like McAdoo who stick around (for too long, in this case).

That's a delusion that's pretty remarkable in its audacity given their recent history. Ed Davis, HB and McAdoo all very clearly stayed a year too long, and all three cost themselves millions of dollars by doing so. The only recent Duke players who arguably stayed a year too long were Singler and McRoberts, and only one of those (McR) would have gone lottery by coming out when he "should" have.

And of course K advised JWill to go pro after his sophomore AND freshman seasons.

[flyingdutchdevil]

"Ole Roy" must be pretty daggum good. He's the only coach, so far this year, able to get Texas to execute on the offensive end of the floor!

Recruit shooters...not athletes that think they can shoot.

We apparently shoot well in practice against UNC's perimeter defense.

This team reminds me of the 93-94 team (without all that talent and size and shooting ability).

If we make the tourney and are somehow able to win a game or two and I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. loses before the final 4, I will be satisfied.

If I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. somehow wins a title this season then I am done with college basketball. They would officially be our daddy and there would be no point in ever watching the Heels play again.

Play hard, play smart, play together. Nope, nope and nope.

remember a few yrs ago when we all pizzed in our pants cause we got tbf? maybe he will not play up to his hype either. nah, kry will instill the death stare and scare the best out of him

Say what you want about UNC fans, but they are witty!

[cptnflash]

Reading some of the recent links (and in normally light-blue-friendly outlets like the Fayetteville Observer and Raleigh N&O), things aren't going well on the Hill. Team not coming together, players more interested in their own stats, lack of hustle, haven't settled on style of play, players going public with their gripes, Ole Roy approaching meltdown.

Does this team get it together or head south?

The parallels between this year and the 2009/10 season are starting to scare me (in a good way). The similarities on our side are obvious and much discussed. But look at the Heels. At this point in 09/10, the Heels were 8-3, after coming off a Dec 19 road loss to Texas. Most of their wins were against cupcakes, although they did have a home win over a Michigan State team that would eventually make the Final Four, and a neutral site win over a very good Ohio State team. Fast forward to this year - the Heels are 8-3, after coming off a Dec 19 road loss to Texas (literally, same date against the same team, three years later). The only difference is that this year, ALL of their wins are over cupcakes, including one against a non-D1 school (Chaminade in the Maui Invitational). If anything, I'd have to say that this year's Heels have been worse than their 2010 squad, at least so far. Dare I dream that it all happens again? I'm trying not to get too excited but I can't help myself!

[grossbus]

"Ender is good, but we should really be going after Bean."

also brilliant!

[JasonEvans]

How likely is Carolina to make the NCAA tourney?

Some email friends were discussing this and I sent them the following. I post it here for your further perusal.

Carolina is 8-3... actually 7-3 because the Chaminade game doesn't count according to the NCAA selection committee.

They have 2 more non-conference games: The mediocre McNeese St (6-3 record) and a pretty good UNLV club. The UNLV game is at UNC and would be a major win for Carolina if they can pull it off. But, at this point the Heels would probably be a decent underdog in that game.

So, lets say they enter ACC play with a non-conf record of 8-4. Lets then break the ACC games into 3 categories: easy opponents, ok opponents, and tough opponents.


Easy: BC, Wake, Clemson. These three clubs appear to be just terrible. Even in what appears to be a down year, Carolina will beat them. But, Carolina has the misfortune of only getting each of these teams once. That's 3 wins.

OK: FSU (x2), Ga Tech (x2), Va Tech, Virginia (x2). That's 7 games, 4 of them at home. Even if Carolina is not all that good, I see them winning at least 4 of these games. That puts them at 7-3 before we get to the tough games.

Tough: Maryland (x2), NC State (x2), Miami (x2), Duke (x2). Carolina gets pretty unlucky to draw 8 games against the top 4 teams in the conference. The way this Carolina club looks, even winning at home against a good teams may be a challenge. Does a 3-5 record against these teams sound right?

That would put UNC's ACC record at 10-8 and make them 18-11 overall entering the ACC tournament. I would think they would be squarely on the bubble in that case, and would not feel safe without a win in their ACC first round game. Of course, 10-8 likely makes them 5th or 6th in the conference, meaning that first round tourney game is likely to be against likely against BC or Wake. They would likely be looking at someone like FSU or Virginia in the next game. I suppose that game might be seen as a NCAA Tournament elimination game, but I think a 19-win season puts UNC in the dance.

But, the conference schedule really works against them. It is as tough as it could be, I think. If they stumble even worse than expected against the top of the conference, it could sap their confidence and make those mid-level games even harder. I don't think 9-9 is likely to get this Carolina team a NCAA bid unless they win at least 2 ACC tourney games.

-Jason "the preceding rampant speculation will likely look quite foolish in a few weeks... be sure to remind me of it then" Evans

[tommy]

How likely is Carolina to make the NCAA tourney?

Some email friends were discussing this and I sent them the following. I post it here for your further perusal.

Carolina is 8-3... actually 7-3 because the Chaminade game doesn't count according to the NCAA selection committee.

They have 2 more non-conference games: The mediocre McNeese St (6-3 record) and a pretty good UNLV club. The UNLV game is at UNC and would be a major win for Carolina if they can pull it off. But, at this point the Heels would probably be a decent underdog in that game.


UNLV will still be without star forward Mike Moser, who is out with a dislocated elbow. Should UNC win, I wonder whether the win will be discounted in the same way that some believe Duke's win over Louisville should be discounted due to the Cardinals not having Dieng available.

[timmy c]

How likely is Carolina to make the NCAA tourney?

Some email friends were discussing this and I sent them the following. I post it here for your further perusal.

Carolina is 8-3... actually 7-3 because the Chaminade game doesn't count according to the NCAA selection committee.

They have 2 more non-conference games: The mediocre McNeese St (6-3 record) and a pretty good UNLV club. The UNLV game is at UNC and would be a major win for Carolina if they can pull it off. But, at this point the Heels would probably be a decent underdog in that game.

So, lets say they enter ACC play with a non-conf record of 8-4. Lets then break the ACC games into 3 categories: easy opponents, ok opponents, and tough opponents.


Easy: BC, Wake, Clemson. These three clubs appear to be just terrible. Even in what appears to be a down year, Carolina will beat them. But, Carolina has the misfortune of only getting each of these teams once. That's 3 wins.

OK: FSU (x2), Ga Tech (x2), Va Tech, Virginia (x2). That's 7 games, 4 of them at home. Even if Carolina is not all that good, I see them winning at least 4 of these games. That puts them at 7-3 before we get to the tough games.

Tough: Maryland (x2), NC State (x2), Miami (x2), Duke (x2). Carolina gets pretty unlucky to draw 8 games against the top 4 teams in the conference. The way this Carolina club looks, even winning at home against a good teams may be a challenge. Does a 3-5 record against these teams sound right?

That would put UNC's ACC record at 10-8 and make them 18-11 overall entering the ACC tournament. I would think they would be squarely on the bubble in that case, and would not feel safe without a win in their ACC first round game. Of course, 10-8 likely makes them 5th or 6th in the conference, meaning that first round tourney game is likely to be against likely against BC or Wake. They would likely be looking at someone like FSU or Virginia in the next game. I suppose that game might be seen as a NCAA Tournament elimination game, but I think a 19-win season puts UNC in the dance.

But, the conference schedule really works against them. It is as tough as it could be, I think. If they stumble even worse than expected against the top of the conference, it could sap their confidence and make those mid-level games even harder. I don't think 9-9 is likely to get this Carolina team a NCAA bid unless they win at least 2 ACC tourney games.

-Jason "the preceding rampant speculation will likely look quite foolish in a few weeks... be sure to remind me of it then" Evans


Great analysis.

Kenpom also predicts UNC will have a 10-8 conference record. Depending on whom those wins are against, UNC might be looking for a little help in March in order to be dancing.

With that said, I tend to think that UNC gets the benefit of the doubt because of name recognition/past success with the committee.

[striker219]

Ender is good, but we should really be going after Bean.

He may be undersized now, but give him a few years in the weight room and that kid is going to be a giant.


That's a delusion that's pretty remarkable in its audacity given their recent history. Ed Davis, HB and McAdoo all very clearly stayed a year too long, and all three cost themselves millions of dollars by doing so. The only recent Duke players who arguably stayed a year too long were Singler and McRoberts, and only one of those (McR) would have gone lottery by coming out when he "should" have.

And of course K advised JWill to go pro after his sophomore AND freshman seasons.

There was a brief debate over there in the Jabari welcome thread about K and Roy convincing players to stay longer than they should. Most people, obviously, were trying to claim that Coach K only cares about his program, doesn't care about his players, blah blah blah. A poster named "dukeblueforever" dropped this little bit of knowledge.


Heyward...you're skewing the facts man.

Here's the truth. The ONLY top-5 ranked RSCI players to stay multiple seasons in the last 10 years have been Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, Shannon Brown, Ty Lawson, Tyler Hansbrough, Josh McRoberts, Kyle Singler, Samardo Samuels, John Henson, Harrison Barnes, and Jared Sullinger. That's 11 players in a decade.

Six of those 11 went to UNC. That means that OVER HALF of the multi-year top 5 players in the ENTIRE NATION were at UNC. All played for Roy.

That's not all. Seven of those players stayed for 3 years. Felton, McCants, Lawson, Hansbrough, Singler, Henson, and Brown. UNC has FIVE OF THE SEVEN.

You can try to qualify it all you want, but numbers don't lie. There is no school in the nation where top ranked players take longer to get to the NBA than UNC. It's a statistical fact.

The conversation ended pretty quickly.

[throatybeard]

I just can't wait for Wheat's annual sermon about post presence. I can't.

[moonpie23]

speaking of wheat.....??????? where's he been?

[MChambers]

speaking of wheat.....??????? where's he been?

As much as I respect Wheat, I don't remember him posting much here in the first half of 2010. I don't expect he'd enjoy posting here the way the season is shaping up.

[Edouble]

speaking of wheat.....??????? where's he been?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/search.php?searchid=33386

Must I do everything for you people? ;)

[devildeac]

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/search.php?searchid=33386

Must I do everything for you people? ;)

Here's what that link yielded: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

Surely someone can find one of """""""""Wheat""""""""" 's big man discussions and help out the bearded one ;).

[Kedsy]

Here's what that link yielded: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

Surely someone can find one of """""""""Wheat""""""""" 's big man discussions and help out the bearded one ;).

He just posted the other day. I don't remember the thread. But he hasn't been completely absent.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I just can't wait for Wheat's annual sermon about post presence. I can't.

If your talking about UNC's post play, all I can say is..."what post play?"

I took a little break when The Lance threads just got a little too nasty for my taste. I've been lurking around, but extremely busy....I'll stick around as long as things stay civil.

And I'll try to respond to any question I see for me...

[devildeac]

He just posted the other day. I don't remember the thread. But he hasn't been completely absent.


If your talking about UNC's post play, all I can say is..."what post play?"

I took a little break when The Lance threads just got a little too nasty for my taste. I've been lurking around, but extremely busy....I'll stick around as long as things stay civil.

And I'll try to respond to any question I see for me...

I thought ol' Wheat had been here recently and just like magic, he's baaaaacccckkk!

That's funny stuff, Wheat, with the "what post play?" comment about unc, especially after the last few years of them throwing the ball into the post and seeing hans/zeller/henson and company travel/rebound their way to a terrific inside presence.

[Edouble]

Here's what that link yielded: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

Surely someone can find one of """""""""Wheat""""""""" 's big man discussions and help out the bearded one ;).

Shoot. It worked at first.

He's been around. Over at the UNC Scandal thread.

[oldnavy]

Well the win/loss predictions do not factor in the intangibles such as chemistry and attitude. I hope chemistry dissolves and attitudes go south in a hurry. If that is the case who knows how bad they could be. If they pull together they could be pretty solid. Time will tell, but it is too early to say at this point

[Wheat/"/"/"]

UNC seems to have several areas of weakness at this point in the season.

Number one is poor post play. Which I do harp about, and if you watch UNC play you see why. There is no balance offensively because there is no serious inside scoring threat which allows defenses to get up on the shooters. And UNC has no "breakdown" shooters/drivers from the dribble. They need some space, and it has to be created from rotating the ball, which is hard to do if perimeter defenders aren't forced to drop down.

The second major problem I see is they are not physical enough. With the exception of the freshman James and to a lessor extent Pj Hairston, they are getting pushed around, badly. Most of that is from undeveloped bodies of the freshmen, but Bullock, McAdoo, McDonald and even Strickland have to play stronger and tougher.

Their defensive problems seem to be more a product of confusion and lack of strength than effort. They seem to be trying, but make way too many mistakes on missed assignments which are leading to easy shots.

I also don't see anyone special on this team when it comes to basketball IQ. Paige has promise, but he's a work in progress. That concerns me. The need for feel and intuitive movement at speed is way underrated in the game.

I'm not sure how good, or bad they are gonna be yet.

But it may be a tough year for the Heels unless they can find a way to toughen up inside, on both ends of the court.

[Cameron]

Recruiting trends, ups and downs, cause joy or panic, as Jderf's law [and corollary re near future] obtains on both EK and IC:



Just now, we're riding pretty high, esp because of Jabari Parker but also the upward movement in guru-land by Jones and Ojeleye. Not to mention Hood, about whom, so help me, Doris Burke commented Wed eve that some people say will be the best player in the country next season. [Hyperbole, surely, but still.....] Meanwhile, Hicks and Britt move down a bit, even if Meeks moves up. The sky is not Carolina blue, and is falling in, because on, CH.

For UNC fans, Wiggins is now an absolute "must." Here's what Heel pessimists are thinking [Wheat and others can confirm, deny, or amend this educated guess]: "Our team is a mess this season, while *%!*!@#!*$%$!! [accursed] Duke is actually pretty good. Now they got Parker, and Roy's in a slump, can't close on top-5 guys. What if Randle goes to State? State...... State...... Un-flippin-believable. What if K hits a triple in the class of '14 with Jones, Okafor, and Pinson? Maybe Winslow, too. Hope Paige and Britt transfer to UCLA, so Jones will come to CH and bring Okafor. Roy's only advantage over K is he's a better recruiter, and now we can't even count on that. And Roy isn't in Cal's league. Duke, State, UK, Indiana. We're becoming irrelevant. We gotta get Wiggins and Brad Stevens. Now. God bless him, but Roy needs to go play golf."

I recall hearing or reading somewhere this season that Coach K has labeled Rodney Hood the best player at Duke right now. Maybe somebody can confirm. If that's true, then forecasting Hood as one of the very best four or five players in the entire country next season might not be all that hyperbolic. Of course, I remember similar claims being made about Seth Curry in practice in 2010..

One thing is for certain, I cannot wait to see what he brings to the table. At 6-9 and with the ability to stretch the defense to 22 feet, Rodney's going to be a great fit in Coach K's offensive game plan.

[flyingdutchdevil]

UNC seems to have several areas of weakness at this point in the season.

Number one is poor post play. Which I do harp about, and if you watch UNC play you see why. There is no balance offensively because there is no serious inside scoring threat which allows defenses to get up on the shooters. And UNC has no "breakdown" shooters/drivers from the dribble. They need some space, and it has to be created from rotating the ball, which is hard to do if perimeter defenders aren't forced to drop down.

The second major problem I see is they are not physical enough. With the exception of the freshman James and to a lessor extent Pj Hairston, they are getting pushed around, badly. Most of that is from undeveloped bodies of the freshmen, but Bullock, McAdoo, McDonald and even Strickland have to play stronger and tougher.

Their defensive problems seem to be more a product of confusion and lack of strength than effort. They seem to be trying, but make way too many mistakes on missed assignments which are leading to easy shots.

I also don't see anyone special on this team when it comes to basketball IQ. Paige has promise, but he's a work in progress. That concerns me. The need for feel and intuitive movement at speed is way underrated in the game.

I'm not sure how good, or bad they are gonna be yet.

But it may be a tough year for the Heels unless they can find a way to toughen up inside, on both ends of the court.

Hi Wheat,

Thanks for the honest analysis. We can always count on you for that. This clearly isn't a vintage Ole Roy team, but this is a great opportunity for him to show his coaching prowess. Hopefully, he harnesses his "Inner K" and coach these boys to a decent season (but not too decent ;)).

[jv001]

If your talking about UNC's post play, all I can say is..."what post play?"

I took a little break when The Lance threads just got a little too nasty for my taste. I've been lurking around, but extremely busy....I'll stick around as long as things stay civil.

And I'll try to respond to any question I see for me...

Good to see you back.oDuke!

[JNort]

I recall hearing or reading somewhere this season that Coach K has labeled Rodney Hood the best player at Duke right now. Maybe somebody can confirm. If that's true, then forecasting Hood as one of the very best four or five players in the entire country next season might not be all that hyperbolic. Of course, I remember similar claims being made about Seth Curry in practice in 2010..

One thing is for certain, I cannot wait to see what he brings to the table. At 6-9 and with the ability to stretch the defense to 22 feet, Rodney's going to be a great fit in Coach K's offensive game plan.

I don't know if he said that or not, however I know that I said something similar after watching the Blue/White game. I had never seen his videos/games/stats or even a pic of him until that game and I sure know him now. In that game he got to the rim whenever he wanted and did so so fluidly. Havn't seen that look that easy at Duke in sometime.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't know if he said that or not, however I know that I said something similar after watching the Blue/White game. I had never seen his videos/games/stats or even a pic of him until that game and I sure know him now. In that game he got to the rim whenever he wanted and did so so fluidly. Havn't seen that look that easy at Duke in sometime.

There are some highlight videos of Rodney from his old gig on youtube. Merry Christmas, you will not wipe the smile off your face.

Seriously.

[madscavenger]

.................................................. .................................................. ...Question of the day: if half of the dean dome crowd leaves, does the volume level increase or decrease?

grasshopper, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

[subzero02]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=JH2RJt3ZqOs

He doesn't look like a freshman in those highlights... It is a little scary to think of how good Rodney Hood will be when he takes the court next year.

[Newton_14]

Hood convinced me at the Summer League this year. Very smooth and can D up as well. With him, Jabari, Amile,and Rasheed on the floor at the same time, it will be interesting to say the least. Lots of length, quickness, and agility. Next year will be the return of the famous Duke fullcourt press, like it was ran when Shane was the tip of the spear.

K can put either Amile or Hood at the tip, with the other one paired with Rasheed in the 1-2 front of the 1-2-2 press. I loved it back in the day. K would use it right out of the gate to try to put the opponent in a deep hole early, with much success. Next year's team will be perfect for it.

[MChambers]

Hood convinced me at the Summer League this year. Very smooth and can D up as well. With him, Jabari, Amile,and Rasheed on the floor at the same time, it will be interesting to say the least. Lots of length, quickness, and agility. Next year will be the return of the famous Duke fullcourt press, like it was ran when Shane was the tip of the spear.

K can put either Amile or Hood at the tip, with the other one paired with Rasheed in the 1-2 front of the 1-2-2 press. I loved it back in the day. K would use it right out of the gate to try to put the opponent in a deep hole early, with much success. Next year's team will be perfect for it.
Have to say that I'm really excited about the defensive possibilities for next year. (Yes, I'm also enjoying this season, too.). The size, speed, and versatility should make for a lot of fun.

[Channing]

Going back a few posts ... this seems like a good place to ask where this story of Coach K yelling at Dunleavy that he was "effing his program" when he left early? I hear regularly but have no idea where it came from.

[sagegrouse]

Going back a few posts ... this seems like a good place to ask where this story of Coach K yelling at Dunleavy that he was "effing his program" when he left early? I hear regularly but have no idea where it came from.

I have heard such a story attributed to William Avery's mother, but it is a canard. No truth to it whatsoever. K did say publicly that Avery needed another year or two in college, while saying that Elton was indeed ready for the NBA.

WRT Dunleavy: Mike agonized over the choice, but left 'cuz he was gonna be the #3 pick in the whole NBA draft. I have never heard of anything that K said that was negative to or about Dunleavy's leaving.

sagegrouse

[subzero02]

I heard the rumor about K telling Avery and his mom that Avery was effing his program... Might have even been alluded to in an SI article also. K told Dunleavy Jr. that if he had stayed for his senior year he could've been "forever" in terms of his Duke legacy...

[Edouble]

I heard the rumor about K telling Avery and his mom that Avery was effing his program... Might have even been alluded to in an SI article also. K told Dunleavy Jr. that if he had stayed for his senior year he could've been "forever" in terms of his Duke legacy...

This was printed in an ESPN the Magazine article by UNC alum Curry Kirkpatrick. The article said that Coach K said this to Avery's Mom. Curry Kirkpatrick made it up.

[Devil's Advocate]

This was printed in an ESPN the Magazine article by UNC alum Curry Kirkpatrick. The article said that Coach K said this to Avery's Mom. Curry Kirkpatrick made it up.

Interesting. How do you know he made it up? (I mean aside from the default assumptions we make about vitriol spewing tar holes). Did he cop to it?

[Edouble]

Interesting. How do you know he made it up? (I mean aside from the default assumptions we make about vitriol spewing Tar Heels). Did he cop to it?

No primary sources on hand, as this was well over ten years ago.

My recollection was that Coach K said that basically the whole article was crap, and the Duke Athletic Dept. was interesting in suing for libel until the Duke legal minds laid out the financial impossibility of such a proposition, with what it would take to get the ABC/ESPN conglomerate into a court room.

[Dukeface88]

No primary sources on hand, as this was well over ten years ago.

My recollection was that Coach K said that basically the whole article was crap, and the Duke Athletic Dept. was interesting in suing for libel until the Duke legal minds laid out the financial impossibility of such a proposition, with what it would take to get the ABC/ESPN conglomerate into a court room.

Also, both Avery and his mom deny (http://books.google.com/books?id=mpQZSJAq2fcC&pg=PA309&lpg=PA309&dq=Simonton+kirkpatrick&source=bl&ots=j20eVIhleb&sig=x_ncIBkqOS57etkFNZt3qpYK6uU&hl=en&ei=1XRoTYOAG9S_tgfawMTmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)that the incident happened.

[roywhite]

No primary sources on hand, as this was well over ten years ago.

My recollection was that Coach K said that basically the whole article was crap, and the Duke Athletic Dept. was interesting in suing for libel until the Duke legal minds laid out the financial impossibility of such a proposition, with what it would take to get the ABC/ESPN conglomerate into a court room.


Also, both Avery and his mom deny (http://books.google.com/books?id=mpQZSJAq2fcC&pg=PA309&lpg=PA309&dq=Simonton+kirkpatrick&source=bl&ots=j20eVIhleb&sig=x_ncIBkqOS57etkFNZt3qpYK6uU&hl=en&ei=1XRoTYOAG9S_tgfawMTmAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)that the incident happened.

And Kirkpatrick had a history of trashing Duke players through rumors.

Curry Kirkpatrick spreading rumors? (http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/06/30/sis-seth-davis-still-seems-unhappy-sis-curry-kirkpatrick-was-the-first-to-write-about-the-christian-laettner-brian-davis-rumors/)

[UrinalCake]

Well considering that Jason Williams was coming in the next year, it's hard to imagine how the program was "eff'ed."

What I heard was that Coach K told Avery that he would be the fifth point guard taken in the draft, which would put him out of the lottery. Thus he advised him to stay for another year. It turns out that Coach K was half right - Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Andre Miller, and Jason Terry did in fact go before Avery, but they all went earlier than expected and so Avery still managed to be drafted 14th. At the time, a lot of people criticized Coach K for not being more supportive. Remember that before this year no player had EVER left Duke early. It was popular belief that Duke was only a school for four-year players, and that Coach K would never support a player leaving early (never mind that Brand was in this same draft and Coach K was very open in his support for him leaving. Not sure where he stood with Maggette).

In retrospect though, Coach K was absolutely correct that Avery should have stayed. Avery is pretty much the poster child for what can go wrong if you leave too early - he got drafted by a team that already had an established starter, thus never got any playing time, never got to develop, and was soon out of the league. I understand that players want to leave early so that they can get the clock started on their rookie contract and get to that second contract sooner, but if you leave before you're ready then that second contract never comes.

[tommy]

Well considering that Jason Williams was coming in the next year, it's hard to imagine how the program was "eff'ed."

What I heard was that Coach K told Avery that he would be the fifth point guard taken in the draft, which would put him out of the lottery. Thus he advised him to stay for another year. It turns out that Coach K was half right - Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Andre Miller, and Jason Terry did in fact go before Avery, but they all went earlier than expected and so Avery still managed to be drafted 14th. At the time, a lot of people criticized Coach K for not being more supportive. Remember that before this year no player had EVER left Duke early. It was popular belief that Duke was only a school for four-year players, and that Coach K would never support a player leaving early (never mind that Brand was in this same draft and Coach K was very open in his support for him leaving. Not sure where he stood with Maggette)

Maggette's leaving was against Coach K's advice from a basketball standpoint, but he still supported him personally.

[Devil's Advocate]

And Kirkpatrick had a history of trashing Duke players through rumors.

Curry Kirkpatrick spreading rumors? (http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/06/30/sis-seth-davis-still-seems-unhappy-sis-curry-kirkpatrick-was-the-first-to-write-about-the-christian-laettner-brian-davis-rumors/)

Seriously, he's even more of a jerk than I thought. And that's saying something. Thanks for the links. Another story to tip the local media bias scale.

[licc85]

Hood convinced me at the Summer League this year. Very smooth and can D up as well. With him, Jabari, Amile,and Rasheed on the floor at the same time, it will be interesting to say the least. Lots of length, quickness, and agility. Next year will be the return of the famous Duke fullcourt press, like it was ran when Shane was the tip of the spear.

K can put either Amile or Hood at the tip, with the other one paired with Rasheed in the 1-2 front of the 1-2-2 press. I loved it back in the day. K would use it right out of the gate to try to put the opponent in a deep hole early, with much success. Next year's team will be perfect for it.

Just curious . . why didn't you mention Quinn at all here? He doesn't have the crazy length of the other guys you mentioned, but I think Quinn has been our best on the ball defender as of right now, even better than Rasheed, who excels at disrupting passing lanes. Quinn still gets beat occasionally, but he's got very quick hands, and his ball pressure and defensive positioning/footwork has been one of the keys to our resurgent fast break game lately. After all, the key to getting steals is harassing the ball handler into making mistakes, and Quinn has been excellent in this charge. Quinn is second on the team in steals (2 fewer than Tyler), and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Also, I don't think Tyler gets enough credit. He's the leader of this team even now, and with him as a senior next year, we are going to have a very vocal coach on the floor, who also leads by example, inspiring teammates to play harder through his constant energy and hustle on defense. I would be shocked if he's not a captain next year. Frankly, I'm surprised he wasn't a captain this year instead of Ryan.

Rasheed has the potential to become the best defensive player on the team next year, and I think Rodney could be his equal, if not better. I love our defensive potential next year. Marshall shouldn't be overlooked either. He's got crazy long arms as well, and I think he could develop into the best shot blocker we've had since Shelden Williams. I hope he can become a poor man's Bill Russell and learn how to throw pinpoint outlet passes after gets rebounds, because we are going to to be running and gunning all day next year, and it's going to be fun to watch. It'll be the fastest, most athletic Duke team since 2002.

[roywhite]

Just curious . . why didn't you mention Quinn at all here? He doesn't have the crazy length of the other guys you mentioned, but I think Quinn has been our best on the ball defender as of right now, even better than Rasheed, who excels at disrupting passing lanes. Quinn still gets beat occasionally, but he's got very quick hands, and his ball pressure and defensive positioning/footwork has been one of the keys to our resurgent fast break game lately. After all, the key to getting steals is harassing the ball handler into making mistakes, and Quinn has been excellent in this charge. Quinn is second on the team in steals (2 fewer than Tyler), and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Also, I don't think Tyler gets enough credit. He's the leader of this team even now, and with him as a senior next year, we are going to have a very vocal coach on the floor, who also leads by example, inspiring teammates to play harder through his constant energy and hustle on defense. I would be shocked if he's not a captain next year. Frankly, I'm surprised he wasn't a captain this year instead of Ryan.

Rasheed has the potential to become the best defensive player on the team next year, and I think Rodney could be his equal, if not better. I love our defensive potential next year. Marshall shouldn't be overlooked either. He's got crazy long arms as well, and I think he could develop into the best shot blocker we've had since Shelden Williams. I hope he can become a poor man's Bill Russell and learn how to throw pinpoint outlet passes after gets rebounds, because we are going to to be running and gunning all day next year, and it's going to be fun to watch. It'll be the fastest, most athletic Duke team since 2002.

I share your appreciation of what Quinn, Tyler, and Rasheed have done on defense, and expect they will continue to improve and force more turnovers as the season goes on.

I guess we'll have to see what sort of defender and shot-blocker Marshall will be, but I don't think he'll be mentioned much as "long-armed". In fact, his wingspan is unusually short for a player of his height.

[Newton_14]

Just curious . . why didn't you mention Quinn at all here? He doesn't have the crazy length of the other guys you mentioned, but I think Quinn has been our best on the ball defender as of right now, even better than Rasheed, who excels at disrupting passing lanes. Quinn still gets beat occasionally, but he's got very quick hands, and his ball pressure and defensive positioning/footwork has been one of the keys to our resurgent fast break game lately. After all, the key to getting steals is harassing the ball handler into making mistakes, and Quinn has been excellent in this charge. Quinn is second on the team in steals (2 fewer than Tyler), and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Also, I don't think Tyler gets enough credit. He's the leader of this team even now, and with him as a senior next year, we are going to have a very vocal coach on the floor, who also leads by example, inspiring teammates to play harder through his constant energy and hustle on defense. I would be shocked if he's not a captain next year. Frankly, I'm surprised he wasn't a captain this year instead of Ryan.

Rasheed has the potential to become the best defensive player on the team next year, and I think Rodney could be his equal, if not better. I love our defensive potential next year. Marshall shouldn't be overlooked either. He's got crazy long arms as well, and I think he could develop into the best shot blocker we've had since Shelden Williams. I hope he can become a poor man's Bill Russell and learn how to throw pinpoint outlet passes after gets rebounds, because we are going to to be running and gunning all day next year, and it's going to be fun to watch. It'll be the fastest, most athletic Duke team since 2002.

Well, I couldn't list every player. ;)

Seriously though, I was responding to thoughts on Hood, so my post was mainly geared toward him, and the old fullcourt press that K used to run back in the day where he put a lengthy, athletic forward at the tip of the zone press.

Quinn, Rasheed, and MP3 are all fine defenders in their own right, and will fit right in with a pressing team. No argument there at all.