Welcome To Duke, Jabari Parker!!!

[Newton_14]

Discuss the huge get here! GO DUKE!!

[SeattleIrish]

I'll second that one. Great get! Welcome to Duke!

s.i.

[Lunchab1es]

Merry Christmas Duke Basketball!

Let the starting five, minutes, and transfer possibility threads begin!:D

[subzero02]

All I wanted for my birthday was a commitment to Duke from Jabari Parker.... we got it... too bad the world ends tomorrow;)

[JasonEvans]

I love, adore, and am truly psyched about what this year's team has accomplished so far. I absolutely think they have an excellent chance to hang numerous banners this spring!

But it is impossible at this moment not to get more than a little GGLC at what next year holds for the Blue Devils. WOW!

-Jason "and if you are too young to remember GGLC, well, it hearkens back to the recruiting of Brand, Battier, Burgess, and Avery... a pretty solid class" Evans

[NSDukeFan]

He looks very good in that Duke hat. Very exciting! What a recruiting coup! I say we keep coach K and his staff for a bit.

[Furniture]

Well he didn't do the hat thing after all. It was funny though. He pulled out the blue shirt ans tried to open it, fumbled and asked for help. I saw the colour... Was it a Duke shirt I thought?
Yes it was.....

[Bob Green]

Congratulations to Jabari Parker on a great decision. Coach K will teach him invaluable life skills while making him a better basketball player.

[Saratoga2]

Merry Christmas Duke Basketball!

Let the starting five, minutes, and transfer possibility threads begin!:D

This is a great moment for Parker and a great moment for Duke. Lets not spoil it with the ands and ifs for at least a day

[flyingdutchdevil]

Now...when does the discussion about minutes come into play ;)

Kidding aside, we will be the deepest team in the country in the 2-4. This is unbelievable.

Coach - great job!

[BD80]

We are now ranked at #4 recruiting class (doesn't include Rodney Hood).

Long and short of it, we add two of the best players in the ACC (Hood and Parker), return an all-ACC SENIOR (Dawkins), and add 2 great prospects in Semi and Matt.

Today is a good day

[DukeHLM'13]

Anyone know the policy on failing all your classes in a semester and getting to come back for another year?

So excited and can't wait to get to see the team play next year! It's certainly going to be a fun team to watch! This could be a team that gets back to running and pressing like the early 2000s teams.

[burnspbesq]

Seems like a very polished and focused young man. Looking forward to seeing him in Cameron. Also looking forward to seeing him in Wally Wade on some future May afternoon, in a cap and gown.

Welcome to the Duke Family, Jabari.

P.S. That's two consensus number one recruits in the same calendar year. Duke's Polish coaches have got it going on.

[Greg_Newton]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--9DgXjb2hV0/TeIgigBYRLI/AAAAAAAAATw/g2InZrX_XaQ/BritSpears-Big-Shock.gif
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_medyif2lxr1r79k32.gif
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1171/crazyfatkid.gif

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Over the summer I played golf with a guy that is family friends with Sonny and the Parker family. He told me Jabari would probably pick Duke. I thought he was full of it, but I guess not! :)

Congrats Jabari and welcome to Durham!! We can't wait to have you.

I don't want to think about who will or won't be around because of this. Let's congratulate him and enjoy the moment.

Merry Christmas!!!

[theschwartz]

Well he didn't do the hat thing after all. It was funny though. He pulled out the blue shirt ans tried to open it, fumbled and asked for help. I saw the colour... Was it a Duke shirt I thought?
Yes it was.....

I thought the same thing. The blue shirt was unmistakable. I knew right away it couldn't be MSU or Stanford, but I thought there was a chance it could be UF blue. Luckily he picked the right shade of blue!

I absolutely LOVE our team next year! This year's isn't too shabby though so will focus on these guys for now.

[OldPhiKap]

Welcome to the family, Jabari! You will like winter in Durham better than Chicago, trust me.

[oldnavy]

Oh my! I just did my happy dance in front of my staff.... they think I'm nuts anyway so what the heck!

SWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AtlDuke72]

Welcome to the family, Jabari! You will like winter in Durham better than Chicago, trust me.

Do yourself a favor and open the live interview which is in the closed thread. It is hard to imagine a more poised and intelligent sounding young man. Duke is getting someone special in this guy!

[duke74]

Merry Christmas Duke Basketball!

:D

To some of us, it's the 9th night of Hanukkah!!! What a great holiday present!

[-bdbd]

Welcome to Duke Jabari! 'know that it was a tough decision among some terrific coaches and schools, but we are just thrilled to welcome you home to Duke!! You will love it here! 'can't wait to see you in that Duke Blue uni....

Also, a speacial thanks to the coaching staff which worked tirelessly in this recruitment. Their efforts really need to be recognized for the great accomplishment that this represents. Getting giggly at what the future holds next year!


Go Duke!!!

:D :cool: :eek:

[hurleyfor3]

There's a Jabari poll on espn's college basketball main page (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/). Y'all know what to do.

[Greg_Newton]

I can finally let myself indulge:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwDWBfIWDy0

[flyingdutchdevil]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/?sct=hp_t12_a2&eref=sihp

Favorite quote:

After Krzyzewski's visit, Jabari's older brother, Christian, tried to help Jabari narrow his decision.
"If there was one coach you could play for, who would it be?" he said.
"Coach Wooden," Jabari said.
"Well he's no longer here. So who is your second choice?"
"There is only person now that is close to him. Coach K

[ricks68]

Outstanding young man. Great press conference. He repeated that he really appreciated the opportunity to be able to go to college for free. Very unusual. He also said that he wanted the college experience and that he could stay 2 or 3 years. He said it all depends on how things develop, and that he placed education as the top priority on his list------but then, that's what Luol Deng said, too. Typical Duke player. He will fit in just fine. It's great to be a Dukie, isn't it?:)

ricks

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Welcome to DUKE, Jabari! GGLC indeed!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Seems like a humble, well-spoken young man - can't wait to see him in Cameron. And since it seems like everyone who comes through Duke has to hurt a foot or ankle at some point, hopefully he is just getting that injury out of the way early!

[grossbus]

Yippee!

Welcome, Jabari!

[FerryFor50]

Doesn't make any sense. He's much too athletic to play here.

That said.... YESSSSSSS!

[ChillinDuke]

Welcome, Jabari!

Wow.

I...I just...I can't even...just wow.

- Chillin

[Mike Corey]

Pretty darn wonderful news.

Everyone's thrilled. Except the rest of the ACC.

Read the SI story. Remarkable stuff in there. On Jabari's recruiting visit, Coach K arranged for Sonny Parker to visit a dialysis center.

We just landed a very special talent, someone with a 3.7 GPA, a great head on his shoulders, great family behind him, and a tremendous pedigree and potential at the game we all love.

The amount of talent being compiled in Durham in this, the winter of Coach K's career, is incredible in its own right. But that's a story for another day.

Welcome, welcome, Jabari Parker and family. I hope you are as excited about your decision as we are from afar.

[GGLC]

Welcome to DUKE, Jabari! GGLC indeed!

You rang? :)

[watzone]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/12/duke-lands-jabari-parker/ Here is a blurb we had up seconds after it became official. Huge get for Duke! Welcome to Duke Jabari Parker!

[Reisen]

I am 100% responsible for Parker choosing Duke. You all can thank me later:

I was painting a bathroom, and desperately wanted to stop to check on the status of the press conference. However, a voice told me that if I did, he wouldn't choose Duke, where as if I finished painting first, he would choose the Blue Devils.

The bathroom is done, and see what happens? Magic!

[Tucknut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVq0gVS96w0

[JasonEvans]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/?sct=hp_t12_a2&eref=sihp

Favorite quote:

After Krzyzewski's visit, Jabari's older brother, Christian, tried to help Jabari narrow his decision.
"If there was one coach you could play for, who would it be?" he said.
"Coach Wooden," Jabari said.
"Well he's no longer here. So who is your second choice?"
"There is only person now that is close to him. Coach K

Last line of the article --


"Coach K can show you the fruit."

-Jason "that is about 6 million different ways of awesome!" Evans

[Mike Corey]

Nike's out; Fruit of the Loom is in.

[nashd808]

@dre_day20
Yessir!!!! Jabari is durham bound baby!!!!

[SoCalDukeFan]

Anyone know the policy on failing all your classes in a semester and getting to come back for another year?


What are you referrring to in a thread about a Duke recruit?

SoCal

[CrazyNotCrazie]

What are you referrring to in a thread about a Duke recruit?

SoCal

Relax. I think he/she is saying that he/she is about to finish his/her degree and wants to stick around to watch the team next year.

[hurleyfor3]

I think HLM'13 meant as a fan, not a player. Anyway, there's always Continuing Education, or contracting the chicken pox a week before spring finals. Perhaps an April visit to the Med Center to see what sort of infectious yet nonlethal diseases they have on file is in order.

[Edouble]

What are you referrring to in a thread about a Duke recruit?

SoCal

He is saying that he is a senior, but he wants to be a Duke student for another year so he can see Jabari play in Cameron. So can he fail all his classes and come back for another year as a Crazie?

Welcome to Duke, Mr. Parker!

[mr. synellinden]

What are you referrring to in a thread about a Duke recruit?

SoCal

There might be some class of '13 members who would like to redshirt right now (that is not graduate - even if they have to fail classes to do so) so they can can be around to see the Duke '13-'14 squad which is shaping up to be quite an impressive collection of talent.

[Mike Corey]

I've been out of school for a year. Time for me to apply to get a Duke MBA... ;)

[nmduke2001]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/?sct=hp_t12_a2&eref=sihp

Favorite quote:

After Krzyzewski's visit, Jabari's older brother, Christian, tried to help Jabari narrow his decision.
"If there was one coach you could play for, who would it be?" he said.
"Coach Wooden," Jabari said.
"Well he's no longer here. So who is your second choice?"
"There is only person now that is close to him. Coach K

Reading the article, it seems that Jabari's brother was very much a pro-Duke influence on the decision. Thanks, Christian.

"After Krzyzewski left Parker's house on Tuesday, Jabari and Christian had a heart-to-heart. Christian then quoted a verse from Matthew 7:16: "By their fruits ye shall know them." Jabari paused and felt at peace with his decision when Christian said, "Coach K can show you the fruit."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/#ixzz2FdOi5kdR

[CrazyNotCrazie]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/?sct=hp_t12_a2&eref=sihp

Favorite quote:

After Krzyzewski's visit, Jabari's older brother, Christian, tried to help Jabari narrow his decision.
"If there was one coach you could play for, who would it be?" he said.
"Coach Wooden," Jabari said.
"Well he's no longer here. So who is your second choice?"
"There is only person now that is close to him. Coach K

Since the decision seemed to be a secret to everyone until the public announcement and the process was apparently kept very quiet, how did this writer seem to know the decision and so much detail ahead of time?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Since the decision seemed to be a secret to everyone until the public announcement and the process was apparently kept very quiet, how did this writer seem to know the decision and so much detail ahead of time?

The article came out minutes after the announcement. Writer must have had the inside scoop with the promise not to disclose until after Jabari announced.

[Duvall]

Since the decision seemed to be a secret to everyone until the public announcement and the process was apparently kept very quiet, how did this writer seem to know the decision and so much detail ahead of time?

Benedict wrote the May cover story on Parker for SI, so it's not surprising that Parker felt comfortable letting him know the decision in advance for this piece.

[oldnavy]

This is the best news since HSBN deceided for UNC!!!

[jipops]

The amount of talent being compiled in Durham in this, the winter of Coach K's career, is incredible in its own right. But that's a story for another day.



There is a Spring after that winter.

[miramar]

but then broke out a wonderful smile when he unfurled the shirt. I'm sure it's indicative of how happy he will be at Duke, and how happy we will be to have him.

[CharlestonDevil]

Reading the article, it seems that Jabari's brother was very much a pro-Duke influence on the decision. Thanks, Christian.

"After Krzyzewski left Parker's house on Tuesday, Jabari and Christian had a heart-to-heart. Christian then quoted a verse from Matthew 7:16: "By their fruits ye shall know them." Jabari paused and felt at peace with his decision when Christian said, "Coach K can show you the fruit."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/#ixzz2FdOi5kdR

After reading the article, Jabari's recruitment reminds me very much of Shane Battier's. Particularly the manner in which he weighed his priorities. Although "announcements" will forever make me nervous about kids in general, I think Jabari showed tons of class, another Battier trait.

Two thoughts:
1) It is great to see the influx of top level talent in the past several years. Remember complaining that Duke was not a school for one-and-done's?
2) Also, Randle/Nichols/Muhammad/Tony Parker who?!?!

[Zeb]

We have so much to be excited about right now looking ahead seems silly, but next year's roster will be wild.
Coming off last year's team where we struggled matching up with athletic wings, we potentially have the following to choose from next year (ranked in very rough order of talent/skill):

Tier 1: Parker, Hood, Sulaimon
Tier 2: Dawkins, Jefferson, Murphy
Tier 3: Jones, Ojeleye

Good lord... that is 8 high quality wings!
One redshirt senior, 2 redshirt sophomores, 2 true sophomores, and 3 freshmen... that's a nice mix of youth and experience too.

If you liked the 2012 Olympic team, the 2013-14 Blue Devils will be very similar. Parker/Hood as big small forwards who can play the 4 like Lebron/Carmelo, MP3 as Chandler, Cook as Paul, and then a whole bunch of versatile wings. When MP3 is off the court we will lack size, but we will make up for it in speed and depth.

[MaxAMillion]

Do yourself a favor and open the live interview which is in the closed thread. It is hard to imagine a more poised and intelligent sounding young man. Duke is getting someone special in this guy!

Yeah but Parker put a bunch of hats on a table and picked one to show what school he would attend. This means he isn't humble. I can only imagine how many of these type post would be made if he didn't pick Duke.

[dukepsy1963]

Welcome to the best basketball in the U.S. Enjoy!!!

[UrinalCake]

Well, if we thought IC was in meltdown mode yesterday, they must be going full Chernobyl tonight. I love it!

The sky is the limit for Duke, both this year and next!

[johnpope]

Tier 1: Parker, Hood, Sulaimon
Tier 2: Dawkins, Jefferson, Murphy
Tier 3: Jones, Ojeleye

\

This is so much fun, I'm giddy already!

Let's see, not to hijack the thread or anything.

Quinn at the 1, MP3 at the 5. Sheed and Parker also starting for sure baring injuries or other highly unexpected developments.

But man oh man, will the last starter spot and sixth/seventh men cause some debates on here!! Great problem to have!

Hood probably has the inside track to start based on how people talk about him as being "already the best player on the roster" and whatnot.

Thornton will sub Quinn.

Matt Jones will probably be the main backup at the two spot, he's said to be a terrific shooter.

Murphy and Jefferson subbing at the 3/4 spots.

Hairston subbing MP.

I think it's going to be rough for Ojeleye to get many minutes, I wouldn't be surprised if he were to redshirt.

I honestly don't know what to say about Dawkins, it will be difficult for him to return and only come in as a sub for a few mintues a game, as a fifth year senior. We'll see...

Stacked team, to say the least...

[Saratoga2]

This is so much fun, I'm giddy already!

Let's see, not to hijack the thread or anything.

Quinn at the 1, MP3 at the 5. Sheed and Parker also starting for sure baring injuries or other highly unexpected developments.

But man oh man, will the last starter spot and sixth/seventh men cause some debates on here!! Great problem to have!

Hood probably has the inside track to start based on how people talk about him as being "already the best player on the roster" and whatnot.

Thornton will sub Quinn.

Matt Jones will probably be the main backup at the two spot, he's said to be a terrific shooter.

Murphy and Jefferson subbing at the 3/4 spots.

Hairston subbing MP.

I think it's going to be rough for Ojeleye to get many minutes, I wouldn't be surprised if he were to redshirt.

I honestly don't know what to say about Dawkins, it will be difficult for him to return and only come in as a sub for a few mintues a game, as a fifth year senior. We'll see...

Stacked team, to say the least...

This year's team is so great to follow, I can wait before speculation on the next. Love watching Rasheed, Quinn and Tyler do their thing, knowing they will be around next year. Amile and Alex are also talents and they will gain experience this year.

[UrinalCake]

This year's team is so great to follow, I can wait before speculation on the next. Love watching Rasheed, Quinn and Tyler do their thing, knowing they will be around next year. Amile and Alex are also talents and they will gain experience this year.


As long as we're tossing around crazy, unsubstantiated notions, it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Rasheed and/or Quinn could go pro this spring. I know, that sounds ridiculous and there's no reason to think it will happen. But crazier things have happened. I would have never, ever imagined Dunleavy leaving after his junior year. But he did.

My point in saying this is not to stir up controversy or start speculation, but simply to state what most already seem to know - enjoy each season as it happens, because you never know what the future will bring, both good and bad.

[westwall]

My point in saying this is not to stir up controversy or start speculation, but simply to state what most already seem to know - enjoy each season as it happens, because you never know what the future will bring, both good and bad.

This sounds like a Forest Gump paraphrase, but its true. I'm on my 58th Duke season and lovin' this one!

[79-77]

Hi everyone -- I've been lurking for a while but with today's news I decided to speak up. (This is a great board, btw. Good on ya to the mods and regulars.)

Anyway, this is probably stating the obvious, but it looks like Duke is entering another golden age. Gotta admit that I didn't see this one coming last spring.

I should've known better. I've watched almost every Duke game since 1985 and Coach K brings it around on a regular basis.

Awesome.

[J4Kop99]

I'm sure I'm not the first one to say this and I doubt I will be the last but I watch his highlights and everything about his game/body reminds me of Carmelo Anthony. I haven't followed him as closely as other on here have so I'm just wondering if he has ever mentioned shaping his game around Carmelo's?

He looks like a tremendous player. I wish him the best and hope he enjoys his time at Duke. I'm sure he will.


Congrats Coach K and the rest of the staff!

[Struggling golfer]

Do people think that Parker will be a one and done player like Irving or might he stay for 2 years ?

[Edouble]

Do people think that Parker will be a one and done player like Irving or might he stay for 2 years ?

He said in his announcement that he could play 2-3 years. Of course, Mike Jr. said he was a 4 year guy.

"I may play in college for two or three years. It doesn't matter to me. I just want the college experience. The most important thing is getting the degree, and I want to go to school."

He's the #2, formerly #1 player in his class, so of course he has the talent to go pro early. Kyrie, that you mentioned, wasn't thought of as a one and done 'til late in his recruitment. Sulaimon wasn't really taken too seriously as a one and done when he was recruited, but after this season, who knows?

I think it depends on what he does on the floor.

[KenTankerous]

I think these are the most telling quote on this young man:

"To tell you the truth, that was probably the worst on-campus visit I had," Parker said."I know I didn't have a good time, but they just wanted to tell me and prepare for me and give me a little bit of taste how it is going to be in college."

"The most important thing is getting the degree, and I want to go to school."

Welcome to Duke, Student/Athlete Jabari Parker!

[wsb3]

I was refusing to get too caught up in this..Kind of forgot yesterday and was watching PTI when it rolled across the screen & screamed Yes!! I think he will be a great fit in many ways..

Are we done for 2013, recruit wise?

[Matches]

Are we done for 2013, recruit wise?

I wouldn't be surprised to see us look for another big guy. We're still thin at the 5. Hopefully Marshall will be ready to man that position by next fall, but it's always nice to have a fallback in case of injury/ foul trouble.

Be nice to fill that (minor) need with a grad school "transfer" or something to that effect.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Reading the article, it seems that Jabari's brother was very much a pro-Duke influence on the decision. Thanks, Christian.

"After Krzyzewski left Parker's house on Tuesday, Jabari and Christian had a heart-to-heart. Christian then quoted a verse from Matthew 7:16: "By their fruits ye shall know them." Jabari paused and felt at peace with his decision when Christian said, "Coach K can show you the fruit."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20121220/jabari-parker/#ixzz2FdOi5kdR

You think maybe brother Christian was named after Christian Laettner? Could be, as a significant number of Duke fans, and readers of this board, have been! :cool:

[DevilWearsPrada]

All I wanted for my birthday was a commitment to Duke from Jabari Parker.... we got it... too bad the world ends tomorrow;)

ROFL

Happy Birthday!!! Not unless the world will end today and it was suppose to 9 hours ago; Duke men are still ranked #1 ! And Jabari Parker gave all of us an early Duke Christmas gift!!!

All Duke fans got an Early Christmas gift! And we can all Eat Cake and lift our glasses to the New Year!!! Thank you Jabari for committing to Duke! WELCOME WELCOME Mr Parker!!!!

[Bob Green]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us look for another big guy.

You might be right, but my theory is we are done recruiting for 2013. Adding Jabari Parker brings next season's roster to 12 recruited scholarship players. That's a deep roster. Yes, there is a 13th scholarship available; however, Coach K has never used all his scholarships:

Andre Dawkins, Josh Hairston, Tyler Thornton, Quinn Cook, Rodney Hood, Amile Jefferson, Alex Murphy, Marshall Plumlee, Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones, Semi Ojeleye, Jabari Parker

[Dukeblue91]

Welcome to Duke Jabari Parker!
We are happy to have you.

[moonpie23]

Welcome to duke, jabari........now the work begins....

[wsb3]

Yes, there is a 13th scholarship available; however, Coach K has never used all his scholarships:

That is a very good point Bob..

[Billy Dat]

I think these are the most telling quote on this young man:

"To tell you the truth, that was probably the worst on-campus visit I had," Parker said."I know I didn't have a good time, but they just wanted to tell me and prepare for me and give me a little bit of taste how it is going to be in college."

"The most important thing is getting the degree, and I want to go to school."

Welcome to Duke, Student/Athlete Jabari Parker!

This stood out to me, too, as did a similar quote in Eammon Brennan's ESPN Blog post:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8767990/jabari-parker-just-say-no-duke-blue-devils-college-basketball

"Jabari Parker didn't have fun on his visit to Duke. In fact, it was his worst. He "wanted to be a kid," he said. The Duke visit was "all about business." Nor was Parker impressed by Duke assistant coach Chris Collins' close ties to the Chicago area. "He's not from Chicago," Parker said. "He's from Northbrook." And no, Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski didn't let Parker see a side of him no one else sees, or lower himself to the always-low levels many college coaches are willing to stoop to land a first-order talent like Parker's. "He didn't let his guard down," Parker said. "He's Coach K."

(love the city vs burbs barb aimed at Collins - shots fired!)

It would be great to be a fly on the wall for these one-on-ones K has with recruits. I wonder if he plays it differently with different kids? He obviously is a sort of genius at reading people and knowing what buttons to push. Since he is so adept at shaping his strategy based on what kind of players he has, I wonder if he does the same with recruits, or does everyone get the "all biz" approach like Parker? Bottom line, I am glad the kid is coming in with his eyes wide open because with the depth and talent on next year's squad, practices are going to be all out wars.

Golden Age, indeed. It's been a 30+ year Golden Age. Can we use some of that Iron Duke money to get Indiana Jones back on the trail of the Holy Grail so we can keep this rolling for another 30?

[roywhite]

This stood out to me, too, as did a similar quote in Eammon Brennan's ESPN Blog post:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8767990/jabari-parker-just-say-no-duke-blue-devils-college-basketball

"Jabari Parker didn't have fun on his visit to Duke. In fact, it was his worst. He "wanted to be a kid," he said. The Duke visit was "all about business." Nor was Parker impressed by Duke assistant coach Chris Collins' close ties to the Chicago area. "He's not from Chicago," Parker said. "He's from Northbrook." And no, Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski didn't let Parker see a side of him no one else sees, or lower himself to the always-low levels many college coaches are willing to stoop to land a first-order talent like Parker's. "He didn't let his guard down," Parker said. "He's Coach K."

(love the city vs burbs barb aimed at Collins - shots fired!)

It would be great to be a fly on the wall for these one-on-ones K has with recruits. I wonder if he plays it differently with different kids? He obviously is a sort of genius at reading people and knowing what buttons to push. Since he is so adept at shaping his strategy based on what kind of players he has, I wonder if he does the same with recruits, or does everyone get the "all biz" approach like Parker? Bottom line, I am glad the kid is coming in with his eyes wide open because with the depth and talent on next year's squad, practices are going to be all out wars.

Golden Age, indeed. It's been a 30+ year Golden Age. Can we use some of that Iron Duke money to get Indiana Jones back on the trail of the Holy Grail so we can keep this rolling for another 30?

Yeah, this was my guess in one of the early threads on Jabari's recruitment:

"Purely my speculation, but I could see Coach K being very blunt with Jabari and his dad at the last in-home.

Something along the lines of -- I'll push you; you have a lot of talent, but you need to work harder; you shouldn't get far out of shape even when you're injured; you're not guaranteed anything at Duke and you'll be going against guys in practice who are talented and want playing time, too.

We'll see how it goes and see what the Parkers say about their choice and the process."

At any rate, very pleased to see the commitment. Some of the highligtht videos are amazing.
Trying to think of who Parker might remind me of....Grant Hill with a jump shot?
Maybe that's hyperbole, but maybe not.

Good times.

[Matches]

You might be right, but my theory is we are done recruiting for 2013. Adding Jabari Parker brings next season's roster to 12 recruited scholarship players. That's a deep roster. Yes, there is a 13th scholarship available; however, Coach K has never used all his scholarships:

Andre Dawkins, Josh Hairston, Tyler Thornton, Quinn Cook, Rodney Hood, Amile Jefferson, Alex Murphy, Marshall Plumlee, Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones, Semi Ojeleye, Jabari Parker

You are correct, of course. However, we have some attrition due to NBA early entry/ transfer/ pickareason just about every year. IIRC we didn't have any in 2011, but other than that I can think of at least one example for every year since the turn of the century.

[Azdukefan]

You are correct, of course. However, we have some attrition due to NBA early entry/ transfer/ pickareason just about every year. IIRC we didn't have any in 2011, but other than that I can think of at least one example for every year since the turn of the century.

I know it's a real long shot but I could potentially see Sulaimon and/or Cook moving up draft boards (more likely Sulaimon)once we win the national championship (this portion is not as big of a longshot). :cool::cool::cool:

[Kedsy]

The article came out minutes after the announcement. Writer must have had the inside scoop with the promise not to disclose until after Jabari announced.


Benedict wrote the May cover story on Parker for SI, so it's not surprising that Parker felt comfortable letting him know the decision in advance for this piece.

Is it possible he wrote two (or even three pieces) in advance, added a bit after the actual announcement, and was able to post quickly?

If Jabari had picked Michigan State, a lot of that article would have stayed the same. He could sub out a few Duke paragraphs and replace them with Michigan State paragraphs and people would still have thought he had an inside scoop. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but to me it seems more likely than a scenario where Jabari didn't share his decision with his Dad but let a Sports Illustrated reporter know everything.

[DukeDevil]

This sounds like a Forest Gump paraphrase

life is like an incoming recruiting class....you never know what you're gonna get

[jimsumner]

It appears that Duke likely is done with the class of 2013. However, Duke will monitor potential one-year grad-student options in the spring.

[-bdbd]

Is it possible he wrote two (or even three pieces) in advance, added a bit after the actual announcement, and was able to post quickly?

If Jabari had picked Michigan State, a lot of that article would have stayed the same. He could sub out a few Duke paragraphs and replace them with Michigan State paragraphs and people would still have thought he had an inside scoop. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but to me it seems more likely than a scenario where Jabari didn't share his decision with his Dad but let a Sports Illustrated reporter know everything.

I was having the same thoughts. Of course, since he was apparently part of the "inner circle," they could have just told him the night before or the morning of the announcement -- enough time to write up the "Duke choice" article. No matter. But it is pretty interesting to hear some of the behind-the-scenes discussions and ruminations.... The methodical analysis that Jabari did doesn't surprise me though - he's a thoughtful kid.

Next year is going to be super fun, with a VERY talented team, and coming on the heels of Mason's Senior-run team this year.... just WOW! We are so blessed!

:D :D :cool:

[cspan37421]

Golden Age, indeed. It's been a 30+ year Golden Age. Can we use some of that Iron Duke money to get Indiana Jones back on the trail of the Holy Grail so we can keep this rolling for another 30?

Sometimes I have to figuratively pinch myself that I could have been so lucky to have happened upon Duke in the early 1980s, when I knew rather little about college basketball and Duke was considered, academically, a regional heavyweight with national aspirations and was just getting on the radar ("hot colleges" - NYT). And just my luck, my freshman year, they set a record by winning 37 games, though falling one short of the crown. Over the next nearly 30 years, Coach K rises to be the greatest college basketball coach ever (arguably, but you can't deny he's in the conversation) and the school rises to national prominence, looking up to nobody save maybe HYP, maybe S too. But otherwise, very close to the top. I'm very grateful and happy.

My luck reminds me of an old joke about leadership - that it is the ability to find a parade and get in front of it. But K will leave huge shoes to fill, and expectations could be impossibly high for the next person. Still, as long as we have our legendary creative harassment, I think Duke hoops will always be a good time.

[sporthenry]

This stood out to me, too, as did a similar quote in Eammon Brennan's ESPN Blog post:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8767990/jabari-parker-just-say-no-duke-blue-devils-college-basketball

"Jabari Parker didn't have fun on his visit to Duke. In fact, it was his worst. He "wanted to be a kid," he said. The Duke visit was "all about business." Nor was Parker impressed by Duke assistant coach Chris Collins' close ties to the Chicago area. "He's not from Chicago," Parker said. "He's from Northbrook." And no, Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski didn't let Parker see a side of him no one else sees, or lower himself to the always-low levels many college coaches are willing to stoop to land a first-order talent like Parker's. "He didn't let his guard down," Parker said. "He's Coach K."

(love the city vs burbs barb aimed at Collins - shots fired!)

It would be great to be a fly on the wall for these one-on-ones K has with recruits. I wonder if he plays it differently with different kids? He obviously is a sort of genius at reading people and knowing what buttons to push. Since he is so adept at shaping his strategy based on what kind of players he has, I wonder if he does the same with recruits, or does everyone get the "all biz" approach like Parker? Bottom line, I am glad the kid is coming in with his eyes wide open because with the depth and talent on next year's squad, practices are going to be all out wars.

I mean, I'm sure he changes some of his strategy but I doubt it changes that much for person to person. I think he is very blunt with people. And I think that is why Duke might miss out on a few but it obviously works and not only that, but they get Duke players. If a player just wants to hear about fun stuff and doesn't want to work, K doesn't want them there. I think this works well because you have great kids who still realize the amount of work they will have to put in and I think that is exemplified by the amount of Dukies who have been able to stick in the league and not only stick, but some worked hard to improve their game. JJ has become a more complete player, Brand has adapted to his loss of athleticism, Kyrie is Kyrie, Grant is 40 years old and has had to work and change his game, and of course Shane among others. Jabari could have went to Florida and had fun with all the coeds but he realized that his career has already started and he is going to have to put in the work. Hearing all this makes me that much more excited to get Jabari because he is the kind of kid you want.


It appears that Duke likely is done with the class of 2013. However, Duke will monitor potential one-year grad-student options in the spring.
Is there any talk of going JuCo. I have to think they need another big body, I just can't see Hairston being the #2 C going up against a Noel type in the tournament (shades of Okafor). Oriakhi would have been perfect for this role, just a defensive stopper who will get the boards.

[Edouble]

Just read the SI article on Jabari's recruitment and decision for the first time.

A nice read, but I have one question...

Jabari broke down his decision into his top five most important college factors: academics, coach, basketball style, environment, and spirituality. He did not know which program fit spirituality best before making his official trips. This makes sense. But how did he know that Duke was the right "environment" before making his official visits?

Does anyone have thoughts on this? Did Jabari make unofficial visits before his official visits? I suppose that his ideas on the environment of the schools could have come just from the information provided by the coaches during his in home visits. Still, I am surprised that he filled in "environment" before his officials, considering that he waited on "spirituality".

I am very glad though, that he decided to fill in "Duke"!

[jdcason88]

I know there have been some to joke about this already, but what does this mean for Murph? Jabari seems to be a better player, and will more than likely play over Murphy for the most part. Will he be likely to be patient, get some PT when Parker sits, and start his last two years? Or does he get impatient after how this year is going for him as well as Parker coming in, decide to transfer? Either way he is probably two years away from getting starter minutes at Duke! Hope he stays!

[nmduke2001]

Must be weird being a high profile kid in the age of twitter...
http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8770272/jabari-parker-duke-blue-devils-recruit-deals-twitter-backlash-decision

[OldPhiKap]

Hi everyone -- I've been lurking for a while but with today's news I decided to speak up. (This is a great board, btw. Good on ya to the mods and regulars.)

Anyway, this is probably stating the obvious, but it looks like Duke is entering another golden age. Gotta admit that I didn't see this one coming last spring.

I should've known better. I've watched almost every Duke game since 1985 and Coach K brings it around on a regular basis.

Awesome.

Welcome, hope to hear from you more!

It is hard not to be excited about where the program is, and the potential it has in front of it. I loved Jabari's line when they asked what Coach K said after learning of his decision -- "he wasn't too excited, they land folks like me all the time." (not exact quote, but pretty much it)

[jay]

Here's something I haven't seen talked about in regards to Parker: the potential for his Mormon mission.

I know there have been reports that Parker won't go on a mission, but I think those reports are wrong. He has merely said that he won't go right off the bat, when he's eligible to (which is next March, when he turns 18).

So what if he does decide on a mission? What does that mean for Duke?

Here's a possible scenario. He plays his freshman year for Duke. Leaves on his mission after the end of the 2013-2014 season. Comes back in late spring/early summer of 2016. Plays another year for Duke to shake off the rustiness of two years without basketball. Then, evaluates his draft stock and maybe stays a year or two, or goes to the NBA.

Or, maybe he doesn't go on a mission at all. He definitely sounds conflicted about going at all (http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/8479249/new-mormon-rule-affect-top-recruit-jabari-parker). It's a tough spot to be in.

Things to think about.

[OldPhiKap]

Must be weird being a high profile kid in the age of twitter...
http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8770272/jabari-parker-duke-blue-devils-recruit-deals-twitter-backlash-decision

Carolina fans showing their class.

[FerryFor50]

I know there have been some to joke about this already, but what does this mean for Murph? Jabari seems to be a better player, and will more than likely play over Murphy for the most part. Will he be likely to be patient, get some PT when Parker sits, and start his last two years? Or does he get impatient after how this year is going for him as well as Parker coming in, decide to transfer? Either way he is probably two years away from getting starter minutes at Duke! Hope he stays!

Two entirely different styles of play.

Murphy will get PT next year, as will Parker and Jefferson.

[TruBlu]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us look for another big guy. We're still thin at the 5. Hopefully Marshall will be ready to man that position by next fall, but it's always nice to have a fallback in case of injury/ foul trouble.

How about giving Tyler Thornton some growth hormones. I would love to see a big man with Tyler's attitude in a Duke uniform.




At any rate, very pleased to see the commitment. Some of the highligtht videos are amazing.
Trying to think of who Parker might remind me of....Grant Hill with a jump shot?
Maybe that's hyperbole, but maybe not.
Good times.

After watching just a couple of his highlight films, Grant is who popped into my mind . . . great athleticism, but rather than trying to be flashy, using it for a "smooth" (and winning) game. After reading some articles about the kind of person Jabari is, Grant also came to mind. This is before he picked Duke, and is the reason I said in a previous thread that I would still like him some even if he went elsewhere.


I know there have been some to joke about this already, but what does this mean for Murph? Jabari seems to be a better player, and will more than likely play over Murphy for the most part. Will he be likely to be patient, get some PT when Parker sits, and start his last two years? Or does he get impatient after how this year is going for him as well as Parker coming in, decide to transfer? Either way he is probably two years away from getting starter minutes at Duke! Hope he stays!

That didn't take long. (But in all honesty, I had the same thought, but have been trying to suppress it.)

[Edouble]

Two entirely different styles of play.

Murphy will get PT next year, as will Parker and Jefferson.

Not sure what you mean.

Ryan and Josh have two entirely different styles of play, but one gets the majority of the minutes.

Even if 'Sheed is gone, Hood, Parker, and Jefferson are tough for Murph to get around to see significant PT.

[nocilla]

I know there have been some to joke about this already, but what does this mean for Murph? Jabari seems to be a better player, and will more than likely play over Murphy for the most part. Will he be likely to be patient, get some PT when Parker sits, and start his last two years? Or does he get impatient after how this year is going for him as well as Parker coming in, decide to transfer? Either way he is probably two years away from getting starter minutes at Duke! Hope he stays!

I think this question was predicted a few days ago and it is really early to be speculating on next year's minutes, but I will give it a go anyway. I think Parker will play a lot of 4 next year with Amile as his backup. Hood is the guy that may be bumping Murphy at the 3, but I think Murphy will get some minutes at both spots anyway. Sulaimon will probably move into Curry's 2 spot. Dawkins will also play some at the 2 and 3 I would assume. But you may be right in that Murphy won't see starters minutes until his junior year and then that is assuming Hood and Parker leave early. But I don't know that Murphy is expecting starter minutes and will be unhappy if he doesn't get them. I hope Murphy is happy and accepts whatever role he may get to help the team win. As for next year, I think we will see a depth chart like below; Although with the versatility we will have, we should see lots of movement throughout these positions.

PG: Cook, Thornton
SG: Sulaimon, Dawkins, Jones
SF: Hood, Murphy, Ojelia (sp?)
PF: Parker, Jefferson
C: Plumlee, Hairston

[Kedsy]

Is there any talk of going JuCo. I have to think they need another big body, I just can't see Hairston being the #2 C going up against a Noel type in the tournament (shades of Okafor). Oriakhi would have been perfect for this role, just a defensive stopper who will get the boards.

Josh Hairston was the #32 recruit coming out of high school and will be a senior. We're going to need something better than a Justin Knox to make it worthwhile to supplant Josh. If the perfect fit comes along, great, but with 12 very strong players on the roster, my guess is K would rather do something innovative rather than scrounge for a run-of-the-mill big body.


I think this question was predicted a few days ago and it is really early to be speculating on next year's minutes, but I will give it a go anyway. I think Parker will play a lot of 4 next year with Amile as his backup. Hood is the guy that may be bumping Murphy at the 3, but I think Murphy will get some minutes at both spots anyway. Sulaimon will probably move into Curry's 2 spot. Dawkins will also play some at the 2 and 3 I would assume. But you may be right in that Murphy won't see starters minutes until his junior year and then that is assuming Hood and Parker leave early. But I don't know that Murphy is expecting starter minutes and will be unhappy if he doesn't get them. I hope Murphy is happy and accepts whatever role he may get to help the team win. As for next year, I think we will see a depth chart like below; Although with the versatility we will have, we should see lots of movement throughout these positions.

PG: Cook, Thornton
SG: Sulaimon, Dawkins, Jones
SF: Hood, Murphy, Ojelia (sp?)
PF: Parker, Jefferson
C: Plumlee, Hairston

With eight wings on the roster, I don't think lining them up in the five traditional positions is going to resemble our rotation at all. Quinn and Marshall will really only play one position, but everyone else is capable of defending at least two positions, and many of our players will be capable of defending three.

If Josh has problems with a Noel type, how well do you think Noel would be able to chase Jabari around? The opponent would have to go zone to have any hope at all. Or Amile might be able to gain the bulk and strength to be the third center.

Or consider an in-a-pinch lineup of Amile, Jabari, Alex, Rodney, and Rasheed, if Marshall and Josh were both unavailable for a stretch. Our perimeter would be so long and quick, the opponent would have a very tough time getting the ball to a guy like Noel who can't make offense for himself (except through offensive rebounds). There are lots of ways to skin a Wildcat.

[Edouble]

Or consider an in-a-pinch lineup of Amile, Jabari, Alex, Rodney, and Rasheed, if Marshall and Josh were both unavailable for a stretch. Our perimeter would be so long and quick, the opponent would have a very tough time getting the ball to a guy like Noel who can't make offense for himself (except through offensive rebounds). There are lots of ways to skin a Wildcat.

Yeah, I posted the Amile, Parker, Hood, Sulaimon, Cook line-up in another thread. Considering the players that Coach K has used at the "5" in the past, this line-up is not entirely far fetched, and would be a really fun group to watch on both ends of the court.

[sporthenry]

Josh Hairston was the #32 recruit coming out of high school and will be a senior. We're going to need something better than a Justin Knox to make it worthwhile to supplant Josh. If the perfect fit comes along, great, but with 12 very strong players on the roster, my guess is K would rather do something innovative rather than scrounge for a run-of-the-mill big body.


I know Josh has been very good at his role and I'm not knocking him but he is 6'7. Jabari is 6'8, Hood is 6'8, and Amile is 6'8. I guess we could theoretically roll with any of those but I can't really see any of those guarding a Mason or a Julius Randle. I know Josh is 240 and a load but someone like Oriakhi who was ranked 1 spot behind Kelly would have been perfect. And I'm not too worried about the # recruit, I would bet there is a JuCo player who has 2 years of experience who could play 5-10 minutes of defense which is what would be needed.

[NSDukeFan]

I know Josh has been very good at his role and I'm not knocking him but he is 6'7. Jabari is 6'8, Hood is 6'8, and Amile is 6'8. I guess we could theoretically roll with any of those but I can't really see any of those guarding a Mason or a Julius Randle. I know Josh is 240 and a load but someone like Oriakhi who was ranked 1 spot behind Kelly would have been perfect. And I'm not too worried about the # recruit, I would bet there is a JuCo player who has 2 years of experience who could play 5-10 minutes of defense which is what would be needed.

I think 6'7 235 lb Josh could certainly defend for a few minutes against a 6'8 240 lb Randle. There are a few talented 6'10 players out there, but there are not enough of them to warrant grabbing an inferior player to take minutes from the 12 talented players Duke will have, IMO. Josh, Amile, or Jabari might have trouble defending a Mason-type player, but since Mason is the current front-runner for NPOY, I don't think there are that many Mason-type players out there.

[burnspbesq]

Or consider an in-a-pinch lineup of Amile, Jabari, Alex, Rodney, and Rasheed, if Marshall and Josh were both unavailable for a stretch. Our perimeter would be so long and quick, the opponent would have a very tough time getting the ball to a guy like Noel who can't make offense for himself (except through offensive rebounds). There are lots of ways to skin a Wildcat.

Imagine that lineup in a 1-2-2 matchup zone with Rodney at the top (similar to what Coach P did from time to time last year with AV on top). Now imagine trying to reverse the ball.

[Kedsy]

I know Josh has been very good at his role and I'm not knocking him but he is 6'7. Jabari is 6'8, Hood is 6'8, and Amile is 6'8. I guess we could theoretically roll with any of those but I can't really see any of those guarding a Mason or a Julius Randle. I know Josh is 240 and a load but someone like Oriakhi who was ranked 1 spot behind Kelly would have been perfect. And I'm not too worried about the # recruit, I would bet there is a JuCo player who has 2 years of experience who could play 5-10 minutes of defense which is what would be needed.

Duke defense is not a one-on-one proposition. I'd much rather have a Josh Hairston having three years of experience with our defensive schemes than all but the very best JuCo players. And while you may not be able to envision a 6'7 or 6'8 guy guarding the post, Julius Randle is only 6'9 and Mason is listed as 6'10. The issue is bulk and strength, and while Rodney and Amile are currently stick thin, Josh seems pretty good in that area and Jabari seems pretty solid as well. I also expect Amile to improve both his bulk and strength by next season.

But even if all that weren't true, with 12 players currently on our roster who will all strongly deserve minutes, it doesn't make any sense to me to go for a mediocre player who happens to be big. If a top-50 type kid falls into our laps, then maybe. Otherwise, I say let's go with what we have. Coach K will figure it out.

[devildeac]

Imagine that lineup in a 1-2-2 matchup zone with Rodney at the top (similar to what Coach P did from time to time last year with AV on top). Now imagine trying to reverse the ball.

What is this "zone" you are mentioning?;)

[Big Pappa]

Dawkins will also play some at the 2 and 3 I would assume.

PG: Cook, Thornton
SG: Sulaimon, Dawkins, Jones
SF: Hood, Murphy, Ojelia (sp?)
PF: Parker, Jefferson
C: Plumlee, Hairston

I have seen this type of statement a few times on this thread about Andre Dawkins. Are we fully assuming that he will be back on the team next year? I was under the impression that it was fairly up in the air, especially after reading some of his comments, his dad's comments, and K comment's when the decision was made to take the year off.

[ChillinDuke]

I have seen this type of statement a few times on this thread about Andre Dawkins. Are we fully assuming that he will be back on the team next year? I was under the impression that it was fairly up in the air, especially after reading some of his comments, his dad's comments, and K comment's when the decision was made to take the year off.

I don't think anyone really knows. I think it's fair to consider the situation "up in the air".

Certainly is great to see him behind the bench for a bunch of games and cheering on the team even in tweets about picking up Jabari.

I truly hope he's back next year. Love Dre.

- Chillin

[Kedsy]

I have seen this type of statement a few times on this thread about Andre Dawkins. Are we fully assuming that he will be back on the team next year? I was under the impression that it was fairly up in the air, especially after reading some of his comments, his dad's comments, and K comment's when the decision was made to take the year off.

I agree that probably nobody knows for sure. His mom was quoted as saying he intends to play at Duke next year, and as ChillinDuke points out he has been actively cheering the team on. I think until we hear otherwise, when talking about next year's team we have to assume at least the possibility that he'll be on the team.

[Edouble]

What is this "zone" you are mentioning?;)

Yeah, really. No 1-2-2 zone unless Boeheim did it first.

[devildeac]

Yeah, really. No 1-2-2 zone unless Boeheim did it first.

Speaking of Boeheim, found this sequence from Laura Keeley in the Raleigh N&O today with K congratulating Boeheim on his 900th win:

"How does a guy like that win so many games?" K said to a chorus of laughs. "He has no personality, he plays zone all the time, he golfs more than he watches tapes. He must have a great staff and unbelievable players over the years."

Funny stuff.

[mattman91]

Super excited about Jabari's decision and his run at Duke next year. I can see him play a similar role as how Carmelo is being utilized in New York, of course I'm not trying to compare him to an NBA superstar, that would be silly, just his style of play. He's about the same size, has a nice pull up jumper (with range), he is athletic but not too flashy (very efficient), and he is strong enough to rebound over larger players. Most people would agree that him and Melo are both more natural "3's" as opposed to power forwards, but in the right system can be effective playing in the low post. As a lot of posters have already mentioned, we are loaded at the wing and not so deep in the paint so it is almost certain he will spend the majority of his time defending opposing teams 4's.

Not too get too off topic, but I'm thinking about the interior depth next year. I know this is a stretch, but who else thinks Zafirovski could have a similar role to Patrick Johnson a few years ago? Duke was short on big bodies and when Sheldon and Randolph went down with injuries/foul trouble, Duke was able to put Johnson in as a big body to fill up space. Todd is a Senior, but has another year of eligibilty basketball wise. He could be a fifth year 6'9 240 lb grad student with a little bit of in game experience and a national championship. Some are mentioning bringing in a Juco transfer or maybe a grad student from another school, but why waste the scholarship on someone who may not even play 5 minutes a game? Is a second year Juco transfer really better than Todd? IIRC Zafirovski had a few Division 1 scholarship offers coming out of high school, not to mention his ability to execute beautiful pick and rolls and back to the basket hook shots. Maybe we will just play a guard and 4 wings when times get tough?

[jimsumner]

Super excited about Jabari's decision and his run at Duke next year. I can see him play a similar role as how Carmelo is being utilized in New York, of course I'm not trying to compare him to an NBA superstar, that would be silly, just his style of play. He's about the same size, has a nice pull up jumper (with range), he is athletic but not too flashy (very efficient), and he is strong enough to rebound over larger players. Most people would agree that him and Melo are both more natural "3's" as opposed to power forwards, but in the right system can be effective playing in the low post. As a lot of posters have already mentioned, we are loaded at the wing and not so deep in the paint so it is almost certain he will spend the majority of his time defending opposing teams 4's.

Not too get too off topic, but I'm thinking about the interior depth next year. I know this is a stretch, but who else thinks Zafirovski could have a similar role to Patrick Johnson a few years ago? Duke was short on big bodies and when Sheldon and Randolph went down with injuries/foul trouble, Duke was able to put Johnson in as a big body to fill up space. Todd is a Senior, but has another year of eligibilty basketball wise. He could be a fifth year 6'9 240 lb grad student with a little bit of in game experience and a national championship. Some are mentioning bringing in a Juco transfer or maybe a grad student from another school, but why waste the scholarship on someone who may not even play 5 minutes a game? Is a second year Juco transfer really better than Todd? IIRC Zafirovski had a few Division 1 scholarship offers coming out of high school, not to mention his ability to execute beautiful pick and rolls and back to the basket hook shots. Maybe we will just play a guard and 4 wings when times get tough?

The possibility of Zafirovski returning for a fifth year has been discussed. He would likely be used as a practice player, a bigger Jordan Davidson, if you will. But he could be a useful place-holder for a minute here or there.

Duke would not bring in a grad student for 5 mpg. He would have to be better in that to justify the effort. But the beauty of the grad-school option is that a scholarship is tied up for only one season.

I have heard nothing plausible that suggests Duke would look at jucos.

It's Shelden. With an e.

[mattman91]

The possibility of Zafirovski returning for a fifth year has been discussed. He would likely be used as a practice player, a bigger Jordan Davidson, if you will. But he could be a useful place-holder for a minute here or there.

Duke would not bring in a grad student for 5 mpg. He would have to be better in that to justify the effort. But the beauty of the grad-school option is that a scholarship is tied up for only one season.

I have heard nothing plausible that suggests Duke would look at jucos.

It's Shelden. With an e.

Hmm. I can spell Zafirovski right but always seem to spell Shelden with an o instead of an e.

He isn't a Juco palyer or a grad-student, but what about Matthew Atewe (sp)? He is not a juco, but he is a 6'9 big man from Canada. He is really the only other player that I know of that Duke is recruiting (or should i say evaluating?). Would it make sense for us to go after him? I don't see him getting 5 minutes per game next year, if ever honestly. I'm only saying this because he doesnt even have a Scout or Rivals page (lets face it, non "insiders" can only go by those kind of sites to get info on players). This would not just tie up a scholarship for one year like a grad student, but potentially 4 years.

[UrinalCake]

I've perused a bunch of the links from the main page, and one of them quoted these tweets:


Detroit Free Press writer Joe Rexrode ‏@joerexrode: "Parker again says Dawson was his main reason for no MSU. "I don't want to mess up his thing ... Would be kind of disrespectful."

ESPNChicago.com writer Scott Powers ‏@ESPNChiPowers: "It's doubtful Branden Dawson will end up in the NBA next year, but if he did leave early that would be some cruel trick on Izzo."


Does anyone have any more details on this? If I understand correctly, Parker ruled out MSU because of a player named Dawson that they currently have? He didn't want to have to compete for playing time? Or he was concerned that displacing him would create some bad chemistry? This seems odd to me. Perhaps it is just the MSU fans coming up with a justification to alleviate their disappointment and not getting Jabari (i.e. "we don't need him anyways")?

[UrinalCake]

Just read the SI article on Jabari's recruitment and decision for the first time.

A nice read, but I have one question...

Jabari broke down his decision into his top five most important college factors: academics, coach, basketball style, environment, and spirituality. He did not know which program fit spirituality best before making his official trips. This makes sense. But how did he know that Duke was the right "environment" before making his official visits?

Sorry to hijack your discussion point, but what stood out to me was the fact that under "Basketball (team chemistry and style of play)" he chose MSU. This is a little surprising to me. Could it be a hint of the perception that Duke is a guard-oriented system, and concern that he won't be featured enough on offense? Or is it more that he prefers a physical, big-10 still of play? If the latter is the case, then I guess I'm pretty happy that he'll be bringing that mindset to Duke.

[subzero02]

Super excited about Jabari's decision and his run at Duke next year. I can see him play a similar role as how Carmelo is being utilized in New York, of course I'm not trying to compare him to an NBA superstar, that would be silly, just his style of play. He's about the same size, has a nice pull up jumper (with range), he is athletic but not too flashy (very efficient), and he is strong enough to rebound over larger players. Most people would agree that him and Melo are both more natural "3's" as opposed to power forwards, but in the right system can be effective playing in the low post. As a lot of posters have already mentioned, we are loaded at the wing and not so deep in the paint so it is almost certain he will spend the majority of his time defending opposing teams 4's.

Not too get too off topic, but I'm thinking about the interior depth next year. I know this is a stretch, but who else thinks Zafirovski could have a similar role to Patrick Johnson a few years ago? Duke was short on big bodies and when Sheldon and Randolph went down with injuries/foul trouble, Duke was able to put Johnson in as a big body to fill up space. Todd is a Senior, but has another year of eligibilty basketball wise. He could be a fifth year 6'9 240 lb grad student with a little bit of in game experience and a national championship. Some are mentioning bringing in a Juco transfer or maybe a grad student from another school, but why waste the scholarship on someone who may not even play 5 minutes a game? Is a second year Juco transfer really better than Todd? IIRC Zafirovski had a few Division 1 scholarship offers coming out of high school, not to mention his ability to execute beautiful pick and rolls and back to the basket hook shots. Maybe we will just play a guard and 4 wings when times get tough?

It's SHELDEN

[Newton_14]

I've perused a bunch of the links from the main page, and one of them quoted these tweets:



Does anyone have any more details on this? If I understand correctly, Parker ruled out MSU because of a player named Dawson that they currently have? He didn't want to have to compete for playing time? Or he was concerned that displacing him would create some bad chemistry? This seems odd to me. Perhaps it is just the MSU fans coming up with a justification to alleviate their disappointment and not getting Jabari (i.e. "we don't need him anyways")?


Not a conspiracy. That's exactly what Jabari said pretty much verbatim. Had nothing to do with not wanting to compete for minutes. He said that Dawson had worked hard, they were good friends, and he would not want to come in as a Freshman and mess up what Dawson had going as they both would be competing for the same space on the court which could mess up Dawson's game.

Pretty amazing kid to factor that into his decision in my view, and even more amazing to not be afraid to share that publically. I take him at his word there.

[COYS]

Not a conspiracy. That's exactly what Jabari said pretty much verbatim. Had nothing to do with not wanting to compete for minutes. He said that Dawson had worked hard, they were good friends, and he would not want to come in as a Freshman and mess up what Dawson had going as they both would be competing for the same space on the court which could mess up Dawson's game.

Pretty amazing kid to factor that into his decision in my view, and even more amazing to not be afraid to share that publically. I take him at his word there.

I think taking him at his word makes the most sense. While I've always taken issue with the idea that Duke is a guard-oriented team no matter who is on the roster (Mason this year, Josh McRoberts his soph year, Shelden, Brand, and even Boozer got plenty of touches despite playing alongside some killer perimeter players), it would be absurd to think that Jabari would be concerned that Duke wouldn't know what to do with a talented wing player. From K's use of Melo, Durant, and Lebron simultaneously for the national team to stars like Shane, Mike D, Kyle, and Grant to guys like Chris Carrawell, Lance and Nate-dog, or even Dave McClure, who won court time over more highly rated recruits because of his versatility, it is obvious that Coach K knows how to use and feature a player of Jabari's style. I think we have to take Jabari at his word if concerns about style of play at Duke is the alternative.

[NSDukeFan]

Not a conspiracy. That's exactly what Jabari said pretty much verbatim. Had nothing to do with not wanting to compete for minutes. He said that Dawson had worked hard, they were good friends, and he would not want to come in as a Freshman and mess up what Dawson had going as they both would be competing for the same space on the court which could mess up Dawson's game.

Pretty amazing kid to factor that into his decision in my view, and even more amazing to not be afraid to share that publically. I take him at his word there.

I agree with Urinal Cake that it did seem a bi odd, though. Dawson is a good player at MSU but Duke has waaaaaaay more depth and talent on the wing next year. I am ecstatic that Jabari is coming to Duke, it just seems his rationale for eliminating MSU is irrational.

[jim666]

I agree with Urinal Cake that it did seem a bi odd, though. Dawson is a good player at MSU but Duke has waaaaaaay more depth and talent on the wing next year. I am ecstatic that Jabari is coming to Duke, it just seems his rationale for eliminating MSU is irrational.

I think that after his visit he knew he was coming to Duke. This appears to be a high school kids way of "rationalizing" his choice so as not to let people down who may have wanted him to attend MSU. Just a thought.

[roywhite]

I think that after his visit he knew he was coming to Duke. This appears to be a high school kids way of "rationalizing" his choice so as not to let people down who may have wanted him to attend MSU. Just a thought.

Yeah, that was my take. Jabari evidently liked Izzo and MSU a lot; didn't find it easy to say no, and was friends with Dawson. Trying to let the Spartans down easy by complimenting them and his friend.

[Matches]

I think 6'7 235 lb Josh could certainly defend for a few minutes against a 6'8 240 lb Randle.

A few minutes, yes. The problem comes when MP3 either gets hurt or gets in early foul trouble, and instead of a few minutes we need someone to play the 5 for 25-30 minutes. Josh is fine as a stopgap in that situation - he's done it this year too - but I'm not sure he's got the size to do it for extended minutes.

[flyingdutchdevil]

A few minutes, yes. The problem comes when MP3 either gets hurt or gets in early foul trouble, and instead of a few minutes we need someone to play the 5 for 25-30 minutes. Josh is fine as a stopgap in that situation - he's done it this year too - but I'm not sure he's got the size to do it for extended minutes.

This. Mason and Ryan are both seniors and understand the importance of not fouling while still playing solid D (remember Mason's and Miles's propensity to go for cheapies and how that reduced over the years?). None of us have seen Marshall play, but I guarantee there will be a huge learning curve about playing excellent D while minimizing the fouls. As Marshall will be a sophomore next year (with only half a year under his belt), what happens when Marshall gets in foul trouble? Or worse, hurt?

Speculation - Coach K will grab a 4-year player with one year of eligibility remaining. It makes too much sense: if you're a decent player, why not come to Duke, play 10-12 minutes a game, get a masters in something interesting, and be one of the top 3 teams in the country?

[dukeman28428]

Jabari, thanks for choosing Duke. Can't wait to see you play in Cameron and don't let all of the negative tweets from other school fans grind you down. You will love it at Duke and proud that you intend to get your degree. Smart play.

[cptnflash]

Speculation - Coach K will grab a 4-year player with one year of eligibility remaining. It makes too much sense: if you're a decent player, why not come to Duke, play 10-12 minutes a game, get a masters in something interesting, and be one of the top 3 teams in the country?

Guys, tap the brakes on next year. We are losing a LOT when Mason, Ryan, and Seth leave. It's very likely that next year's team will not be as good as this year's, even with Jabari.

[theAlaskanBear]

Guys, tap the brakes on next year. We are losing a LOT when Mason, Ryan, and Seth leave. It's very likely that next year's team will not be as good as this year's, even with Jabari.

I agree completely.

Next years team will be younger, smaller, and not as balanced as this years team. And the players who stay will have to get used to a faster offense and a different style. With the long athletic bodies and no true inside scoring presence I imagine we will have to transition to an uptempo driving/slashing/fastbreak team rather that this efficient half-court beastmode we have going on right now with a dominant C and tremendous 3pt shooting.

[Native]

CSN Chicago (http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/jabari_parker?PID=6cLLTB-CXS49utIwjMILxe5PhHuoJz3gGzR6QZy) has a lot of great videos and interviews with Jabari. The one linked here is an interview right after he announced.

[dukedoc]

Guys, tap the brakes on next year. We are losing a LOT when Mason, Ryan, and Seth leave. It's very likely that next year's team will not be as good as this year's, even with Jabari.

Yes, we're definitely losing a lot. However, we're also gaining Rodney Hood. Plus, several of our key contributors this year are young and still in the midst of the steepest part of their learning curves - Rasheed, Quinn, Amile, etc. Next year they'll likely be even better than they are this year, and that's saying a lot.

We have a great team this year. We'll have a great (albeit very different) team next year. The biggest question in my view when losing those seniors is in terms of leadership. Tyler and Josh will be the old guys. Andre might be back. Quinn will be a junior floor general. Rodney will be in his third year in a college program. We'll have some experience in the group certainly, but it will definitely be a different dynamic. I'm sure K will figure it out.

[Native]

Yes, we're definitely losing a lot. However, we're also gaining Rodney Hood. Plus, several of our key contributors this year are young and still in the midst of the steepest part of their learning curves - Rasheed, Quinn, Amile, etc. Next year they'll likely be even better than they are this year, and that's saying a lot.

We have a great team this year. We'll have a great (albeit very different) team next year. The biggest question in my view when losing those seniors is in terms of leadership. Tyler and Josh will be the old guys. Andre might be back. Quinn will be a junior floor general. Rodney will be in his third year in a college program. We'll have some experience in the group certainly, but it will definitely be a different dynamic. I'm sure K will figure it out.

It depends on development. Will Murphy and Amile come along like we know they're capable of doing? Is Rodney Hood as good as advertised? Is Marshall as good as advertised? Can we stay healthy?

I think it all revolves around Quinn. The best teams under K have always had great play from the point guard position (Hurley, Duhon, Jay Williams, Scheyer, Pre-Toe Irving). If Quinn keeps improving on a yearly basis I think K will be able to make the pieces work.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It depends on development. Will Murphy and Amile come along like we know they're capable of doing? Is Rodney Hood as good as advertised? Is Marshall as good as advertised? Can we stay healthy?

I think it all revolves around Quinn. The best teams under K have always had great play from the point guard position (Hurley, Duhon, Jay Williams, Scheyer, Pre-Toe Irving). If Quinn keeps improving on a yearly basis I think K will be able to make the pieces work.

I agree with this. And Quinn has already proven himself in these 11 games. If we have the current Quinn on next year's team, we're gonna be solid. And I also believe that Marshall doesn't need to become an offensive threat next year. If he does, amazing. But we'll be loaded at the 1-4 next year. It's the 5 that is the most concerning. I like Josh Hairston, but against ACC and NCAA tourney teams, he just doesn't have the height or bulk to play the 5. Marshall is the only one with the height and bulk to play the 5. I'm sure junior or senior Amile will be able to, but I find it difficult to believe that Amile can pack on enough weight in 10 months to play the 5. And we don't even need a better-than-average backup 5 - we just need a body to play solid D and grab a few rebounds.

[jimsumner]

Amile Jefferson told us back in October that he graduated from high school at 192 and was up to 208.

That was after one summer of weight training.

Give him another summer. He's 220, maybe 225. With length, quickness and leaping ability.

That's as big as Singler or Thomas and they both played some effective 5 at Duke in recent years. I'm not suggesting that AJ would start and play 30 mpg at center. But he certainly could be part of a three-headed center rotation with Marshall and Hairston. Murphy is about the same size, so he might factor in here to.

It's not Laettner or Brand-level center play. But with the other assets at its disposal, Duke's 2013-14 centers can concentrate on rebounding, defense,baskets of opportunity and . . . dare, I say it, setting screens to the benefit of all concerned.

[AAA1980]

Guys, tap the brakes on next year. We are losing a LOT when Mason, Ryan, and Seth leave. It's very likely that next year's team will not be as good as this year's, even with Jabari.

That's true but you just never know..I certainly didnt think this years team would be THIS good i thought this was kind of a stogap year without a true star..i didnt see Masons ascension to this level coming at all..

Next years team will be raw but its upside will be bigger and could be better then this years team IF certain players live up to the hype..

[Dukeblue91]

Why are those Tarhole fans so hurt about JP decision to come to Duke?
It's not like they had a dog in this fight and haven't been on his list of schools.
Don't they have enough to worry about with their team instead of giving a hard time to a 17yo kid.
This is just crazy for people to behave this way.

[Bojangles4Eva]

And we don't even need a better-than-average backup 5 - we just need a body to play solid D and grab a few rebounds.


Agree. If MP3 can do this he can carve out an important role for himself. If he can also convert around the rim (kind of like Z or Thomas by the end of '10, not averaging a lot but putting a few in a game) he could really benefit from the playmaking abilities of Parker, Sheed, Rodney, and Cook.

[sporthenry]

Amile Jefferson told us back in October that he graduated from high school at 192 and was up to 208.

That was after one summer of weight training.

Give him another summer. He's 220, maybe 225. With length, quickness and leaping ability.

That's as big as Singler or Thomas and they both played some effective 5 at Duke in recent years. I'm not suggesting that AJ would start and play 30 mpg at center. But he certainly could be part of a three-headed center rotation with Marshall and Hairston. Murphy is about the same size, so he might factor in here to.

It's not Laettner or Brand-level center play. But with the other assets at its disposal, Duke's 2013-14 centers can concentrate on rebounding, defense,baskets of opportunity and . . . dare, I say it, setting screens to the benefit of all concerned.

Watching the UNC game, the one thing I will say is that Duke's strength and conditioning program may be one of the best in the country compared to UNC's who might have one of the worst. Henson was a stick and Paige along with Brice Johnson look malnourished. Meanwhile, I remember Miles getting huge after his freshman year. He was almost too big as he lost all his touch.

As far as next year, I don't doubt that we can compensate with our length elsewhere and that Hairston may be able to handle it at times but what happens if Marshall gets injured again? I just don't know how they don't bring in a stop gap just in case.

[cptnflash]

That's true but you just never know..I certainly didnt think this years team would be THIS good i thought this was kind of a stogap year without a true star..i didnt see Masons ascension to this level coming at all..

Next years team will be raw but its upside will be bigger and could be better then this years team IF certain players live up to the hype..

I don't get the comments about next year's team having a bigger upside. This year's team is capable and worthy of winning a national championship. There is no bigger upside than that.

Any team with three seniors as good as Mason, Ryan, and Seth was never going to be a stopgap. You're talking about three guys who just based on prior production had obvious potential to be All-ACC, and in Mason's case All-America (as Coach K himself said before the season started). The big unknowns were Rasheed and especially Quinn, and fortunately both have been pleasant surprises. I said back in April that I was super-excited about this year's team and expected us to be significantly better than last year. I thought it was obvious, even though the pundits were all projecting us as the 3rd best team in the league. Those same pundits are now talking about the "upside" of next year's team. Let them. Focus on this year.

[Kedsy]

Guys, tap the brakes on next year. We are losing a LOT when Mason, Ryan, and Seth leave. It's very likely that next year's team will not be as good as this year's, even with Jabari.

I look at this sort of thing differently. It doesn't make sense to me to look at what teams "lose" when evaluating how good they'll be. Look at this year's team -- we "lost" first round draft picks Austin and Miles and yet we're significantly better than we were last year. And not because of "addition by subtraction" or whatever. We're better because our returning players all improved dramatically, because we had quality players available who were able to provide quality play in the newly available minutes, and because we added a great defensive player (Rasheed).

Not only that, who cares whether next year's team is better or worse than this year's team? You don't win anything for being better than teams of the past. Next year's team is going to be really, really good. I say that assuming only that Quinn, Rasheed, Rodney, Jabari, and Marshall are going to be good enough to start for Duke and play starters' minutes, and that at least three of Alex, Amile, Andre, Matt, Semi, Tyler, and Josh are going to be good enough to play rotation minutes for Duke. That's not a huge leap or anything, and based on these players' sizes and skillsets (and probable "floors"), I think that's all we need to be a top five team. In fact, I agree with whoever said we'd be a top three team -- I think that's where we'll be for most or all of next season.


Speculation - Coach K will grab a 4-year player with one year of eligibility remaining. It makes too much sense: if you're a decent player, why not come to Duke, play 10-12 minutes a game, get a masters in something interesting, and be one of the top 3 teams in the country?

I'm looking at this differently, too. First of all, both Josh and Amile will likely be able to defend the post for 10 or 12 minutes a game (obviously Amile needs to add a little bulk/strength, but there's a good chance he will, as Jim Sumner pointed out). Or, to phrase it in a more useful way, no fifth year grad student or juco transfer who would come to Duke expecting to play 10 to 12 minutes a game would be any better than Josh or Amile. Because if they're better than Josh or Amile, they'd be expecting to go somewhere and start or at least play starters' minutes.

Moreover, we're going to have a very crowded roster next season, with a dozen high quality players clamoring for minutes. It doesn't make sense to me to make the rotation even more crowded merely to add a serviceable option who in all likelihood is no better than who we already have. No, to me the only way it makes sense would be if an Alex Oriakhi type -- someone who would come in and start and play 20+ minutes, making Marshall a 15 to 20 minute backup -- became available. If something like that falls into our lap, great. Otherwise, I believe it would be a bad idea to add anyone and we're just going to have to live with some combination of Josh and Amile (maybe even mixed in with a little Alex or Jabari defending the 5) when Marshall is on the bench.

[dagista]

Dear Jabari and Blue Devil Nation,
Don't let it bother you if UNC fans say that coming here will hurt your chances in The League. I believe that that at this moment there are more players in the NBA who attended Duke than attended any other school! Plus if you get a degree, your chances of being a coach in college are better and being an NBA front office person after your playing days are over are much improved by your experience at Duke.
Dagista Trinity '79

[AAA1980]

I don't get the comments about next year's team having a bigger upside. This year's team is capable and worthy of winning a national championship. There is no bigger upside than that.

Any team with three seniors as good as Mason, Ryan, and Seth was never going to be a stopgap. You're talking about three guys who just based on prior production had obvious potential to be All-ACC, and in Mason's case All-America (as Coach K himself said before the season started). The big unknowns were Rasheed and especially Quinn, and fortunately both have been pleasant surprises. I said back in April that I was super-excited about this year's team and expected us to be significantly better than last year. I thought it was obvious, even though the pundits were all projecting us as the 3rd best team in the league. Those same pundits are now talking about the "upside" of next year's team. Let them. Focus on this year.

Well see..i personally think Jabari an improved Quinn and Sheed and the x factor Hood has the potential to be scary as hell..

Not even counting guys like Amille and Murphy who could get better and Plumlee who if he gives us anyhting inside will make a huge difference..

Im not saying its all gonna come together theyre's a lot of questions with next years team but if more are answered then not then were looking at a hell of a team by the end of next year..

[roywhite]

Nice piece from SI.com on Jabari's commitment and Duke's prospects next year

With Jabari Parker In Tow, Duke Reloaded for 2013-14 (http://bustingbrackets.com/2012/12/21/with-jabari-parker-in-tow-duke-reloaded-for-2013-14/)


Welcome to the ACC: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame. Your goodie bag upon arrival: a first-hand look at a throwback Duke team that harks back to the late 90s.

[Edouble]

I look at this sort of thing differently. It doesn't make sense to me to look at what teams "lose" when evaluating how good they'll be. Look at this year's team -- we "lost" first round draft picks Austin and Miles and yet we're significantly better than we were last year. And not because of "addition by subtraction" or whatever. We're better because our returning players all improved dramatically, because we had quality players available who were able to provide quality play in the newly available minutes, and because we added a great defensive player (Rasheed).

Not only that, who cares whether next year's team is better or worse than this year's team? You don't win anything for being better than teams of the past. Next year's team is going to be really, really good. I say that assuming only that Quinn, Rasheed, Rodney, Jabari, and Marshall are going to be good enough to start for Duke and play starters' minutes, and that at least three of Alex, Amile, Andre, Matt, Semi, Tyler, and Josh are going to be good enough to play rotation minutes for Duke. That's not a huge leap or anything, and based on these players' sizes and skillsets (and probable "floors"), I think that's all we need to be a top five team. In fact, I agree with whoever said we'd be a top three team -- I think that's where we'll be for most or all of next season.



I'm looking at this differently, too. First of all, both Josh and Amile will likely be able to defend the post for 10 or 12 minutes a game (obviously Amile needs to add a little bulk/strength, but there's a good chance he will, as Jim Sumner pointed out). Or, to phrase it in a more useful way, no fifth year grad student or juco transfer who would come to Duke expecting to play 10 to 12 minutes a game would be any better than Josh or Amile. Because if they're better than Josh or Amile, they'd be expecting to go somewhere and start or at least play starters' minutes.

Moreover, we're going to have a very crowded roster next season, with a dozen high quality players clamoring for minutes. It doesn't make sense to me to make the rotation even more crowded merely to add a serviceable option who in all likelihood is no better than who we already have. No, to me the only way it makes sense would be if an Alex Oriakhi type -- someone who would come in and start and play 20+ minutes, making Marshall a 15 to 20 minute backup -- became available. If something like that falls into our lap, great. Otherwise, I believe it would be a bad idea to add anyone and we're just going to have to live with some combination of Josh and Amile (maybe even mixed in with a little Alex or Jabari defending the 5) when Marshall is on the bench.

Some very good points here...

I'll add--getting a JuCo guy in the offseason seems counter intuitive. I think Marshall (and to an extent, Amile) is the guy that the staff planned around. Yes, we went after Tony Parker, but by all accounts, and by his play this year, he was not a guy that was going to have huge impact until perhaps his junior year.

If we had needed someone besides Marshall, I think he would be on the team by now.

Agree also with AAA1980 that Hood, Quinn, 'Sheed, and Parker are ridiculously scary. This group at the 1-4 reminds me a bit of UNC 1997-98. You just need one more body in there, even one at a talent tier a full notch lower, like Okulaja, or Ndiaye, to defend the paint. I certainly think that Marshall is capable of manning up for that job. And if you run into the Michael Doleac type in the tourney, in goes Amile!

[johnb]

Why are those Tar Heel fans so hurt about JP decision to come to Duke?
It's not like they had a dog in this fight and haven't been on his list of schools.
Don't they have enough to worry about with their team instead of giving a hard time to a 17yo kid.
This is just crazy for people to behave this way.

It's a clear difference between Carolina and Duke.... I don't think a single Duke fan has tweeted Jabari anything negative all week.

[Indoor66]

It's a clear difference between Carolina and Duke.... I don't think a single Duke fan has tweeted Jabari anything negative all week.

Why would they?

[Kedsy]

Why would they?

I think we really do need a sarcasm emoticon.

[-bdbd]

Why are those Tar Heel fans so hurt about JP decision to come to Duke?
It's not like they had a dog in this fight and haven't been on his list of schools.
Don't they have enough to worry about with their team instead of giving a hard time to a 17yo kid.
This is just crazy for people to behave this way.

Just read the DBR-linked (front page) article from ESPN re. the dispicable Twitter responses from UNC and other hater-fans, and have seen some of them elsewhere. And while I pride myself in being able to "understand the view from the other side," I honestly just don'y get it. In what universe does an adult justify spouting obscenities at a teenager, questioning his class, manhood, and allegiance to his faith and to his race.... just because he chose to go to (a very good) different school than they prefer? Just dispicable. If I EVER saw a Duke fan doing that I would be HORRIBLY embarrassed, and most likely shout him down in the Twitterverse. The really amusing part is that they really aren't doing any harm to the kid or to Duke, but just to their own favorite team's image.

Just absolutely, astoundingly classless.



:(

[throatybeard]

A few minutes, yes. The problem comes when MP3 either gets hurt or gets in early foul trouble, and instead of a few minutes we need someone to play the 5 for 25-30 minutes. Josh is fine as a stopgap in that situation - he's done it this year too - but I'm not sure he's got the size to do it for extended minutes.

At that point, I suspect K quits playing a "5" and goes smaller.

[devildeac]

I think we really do need a sarcasm emoticon.

:rolleyes:-This one is listed as "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)." I use it frequently but not very many folks take me seriously anyway:o. Unless, of course, you are being sarcastic about needing a sarcasm emoticon;).

I import this one on occasion, too, so light-hearted barbs are interpreted as "love taps."

3068

[Indoor66]

3068[/ATTACH]

But you are suave & debonair. The rest of us have to guess. :confused: :cool:

[devildeac]

At that point, I suspect K quits playing a "5" and goes smaller.

I think Kedsy already had a possible lineup that included the ~6'4" Sulaimon and the ~6'8" Hood/Murphy/Jefferson/Parker "wing" gang;).

[Im4howdy]

I'm probably showing my age to some of you young folks, but I can't get around the comparison of these two incredible athletes. Plus Banks brought such joy to the court (and to the stands, LOL). I honestly believe that Parker is the biggest impact player to commit to Duke since Tinkerbell, himself. Any thoughts?

[gep]

At that point, I suspect K quits playing a "5" and goes smaller.

Well... even the NBA had eliminated the "center" from the All-Star game. Maybe USA Basketball had an influence... :cool:

[-bdbd]

I'm probably showing my age to some of you young folks, but I can't get around the comparison of these two incredible athletes. Plus Banks brought such joy to the court (and to the stands, LOL). I honestly believe that Parker is the biggest impact player to commit to Duke since Tinkerbell, himself. Any thoughts?

I understand your point Im4, and had a fleetingly similar thought, but the situations are just waaaaay too different. They are similarly ranked, and both inner-city kids, but Jabari is coming into a program that is long-established as one of the 3-4 premier programs in the country, that save for the non-K year in the mid-90's hasn't missed an NCAAT in over 25 years. B-ball national success is simply expected now. He'll fit in well, and may well add to that success, and certainly perpetuate our high-level competitiveness. BUT, Tinkerbell was THE FIRST. He signed up to a team that had languished for a number of years in mediocrity. Yes, there was history, but certainly none that was likely to be recalled by current recruits. Banks took a huge leap of faith, joining Coach Foster, the G-man, Spanarkle, Dennard and gang. Duke simply had never had anyone very much like Banks before. While Parker is clearly his own person, and will certainly carve out his own place in Duke hearts no doubt, he is already being compared to past Duke greats such as Battier, Hill, and, well, Banks.

I'm as excited as anybody by the JP commitment, but I don't see how people would already be expecting him to have more impact than Laettner, or Hill, or Ferry, or Brand, or Jason Williams or Battier or JJ... Just don't want to put unreasonable expectations on the poor guy. He's gonna be great, regardless. Just can't wait to see what he can do with a blank canvass of his own! :D

[dukelifer]

I'm probably showing my age to some of you young folks, but I can't get around the comparison of these two incredible athletes. Plus Banks brought such joy to the court (and to the stands, LOL). I honestly believe that Parker is the biggest impact player to commit to Duke since Tinkerbell, himself. Any thoughts?

I am curious what you mean by biggest impact? Do you mean that as a Freshman he could lead his team to a FF? Grant Hill was a high impact player - although he joined an experienced team- but folks tend to forget Luol Deng who come out of high school ranked number 2 behind Lebron James! He like Banks led Duke to a FF and was arguably the best player on the team. Duke has recruited a number of high impact players since Banks- although some took a year or two to lead Duke to the FF. That said- Parker has a chance to be special.

[VaDukie]

Just read the SI article on Jabari's recruitment and decision for the first time.

A nice read, but I have one question...

Jabari broke down his decision into his top five most important college factors: academics, coach, basketball style, environment, and spirituality. He did not know which program fit spirituality best before making his official trips. This makes sense. But how did he know that Duke was the right "environment" before making his official visits?

Does anyone have thoughts on this? Did Jabari make unofficial visits before his official visits? I suppose that his ideas on the environment of the schools could have come just from the information provided by the coaches during his in home visits. Still, I am surprised that he filled in "environment" before his officials, considering that he waited on "spirituality".

I am very glad though, that he decided to fill in "Duke"!

I know he took at least one unofficial, and I think this has to do with Duke's campus environment. From what I've read, mainly the excellent SI cover story, it's clear he's a pretty quiet, humble kid who doesn't naturally take to the spotlight. Duke is a much more closely knit, private campus than he would have found at a Michigan State or Florida.

[cptnflash]

Well see..i personally think Jabari an improved Quinn and Sheed and the x factor Hood has the potential to be scary as hell..

Not even counting guys like Amille and Murphy who could get better and Plumlee who if he gives us anyhting inside will make a huge difference..

Im not saying its all gonna come together theyre's a lot of questions with next years team but if more are answered then not then were looking at a hell of a team by the end of next year..

I'm looking at a hell of a team right now. Right in front of us. Playing this year. Ranked #1 in the country, already won a championship, capable of winning three more. Scary as hell. Just ask Kentucky, Ohio State, Minnesota, VCU, Louisville, or any of the thousands of Tar Heel fans that are wetting themselves nightly.

[cptnflash]

I look at this sort of thing differently. It doesn't make sense to me to look at what teams "lose" when evaluating how good they'll be. Look at this year's team -- we "lost" first round draft picks Austin and Miles and yet we're significantly better than we were last year. And not because of "addition by subtraction" or whatever. We're better because our returning players all improved dramatically, because we had quality players available who were able to provide quality play in the newly available minutes, and because we added a great defensive player (Rasheed).

Not only that, who cares whether next year's team is better or worse than this year's team? You don't win anything for being better than teams of the past. Next year's team is going to be really, really good. I say that assuming only that Quinn, Rasheed, Rodney, Jabari, and Marshall are going to be good enough to start for Duke and play starters' minutes, and that at least three of Alex, Amile, Andre, Matt, Semi, Tyler, and Josh are going to be good enough to play rotation minutes for Duke. That's not a huge leap or anything, and based on these players' sizes and skillsets (and probable "floors"), I think that's all we need to be a top five team. In fact, I agree with whoever said we'd be a top three team -- I think that's where we'll be for most or all of next season.

I agree that it makes no sense to worry about how good next year's team will or will not be until this year is over. That's true in any year, but especially in a year like this when a team has a chance to be very special.

But when the time comes to think about next year (hopefully following a win at the end of this one), it has to start with an assessment of roster turnover, and in that regard the losses are easier to assess than the gains (once you know for sure who's leaving, that is). We know what we're losing in Mason, Ryan, and Seth. It's a lot. The idea that their collective production, defense, and leadership can be replaced by some combination of new players, existing players playing more minutes, and existing players improving their skills, is obviously speculative, and therefore harder.

Along those lines, I respectfully disagree with you (partially) regarding what has made this year's team better than last year. Addition by subtraction was always going to be a huge part of it. Austin wasn't very good. It's just a fact. He was simultaneously our least efficient and highest usage offensive player, a lethal combination. He changed the flow of our offense and the cohesion of our locker room. He was also part (but only part) of the problem on defense. I get that we may occasionally need to take a shot with players like Austin in today's recruiting environment, but last year we paid a high price for it. With Austin thankfully moving on to the NBA this year, we were able to simultaneously upgrade our offense and our perimeter defense by adding Rasheed in his place.

Meanwhile, Miles took minutes away from Mason and Ryan last year, both of whom are better college players than him. In addition, I think the "older brother" effect prevented Mason from fully embracing a dominant role until Miles was gone (I will admit that this assertion is a pretty radical departure from my usual data-oriented approach... I have nothing to back it up, other than Mason's incredible leap forward this year which could be attributable to many other factors). This year's upgrade at the five position is as much because of what we lost as what we gained, in that the "loss" is what opened up the minutes, the leadership role, and (in my opinion) the motivation for Mason's gains to occur.

The final major upgrade this year has been a healthy and confident Quinn Cook over last year's "point guard by committee" approach. On this one, I think you're right - it has nothing to do with who we lost, and everything to do with previously unrealized upside of an exisiting player.

But on that note, I'm done talking about last year, just like I'm already done thinking about next year. This year's team is worthy of 100% of my energy and affection until they're done.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm probably showing my age to some of you young folks, but I can't get around the comparison of these two incredible athletes. Plus Banks brought such joy to the court (and to the stands, LOL). I honestly believe that Parker is the biggest impact player to commit to Duke since Tinkerbell, himself. Any thoughts?

Someone up thread compared their games, but I have not seen Jabari and am hesitant to compare across generations. JWill compares Jabari to Paul Pierce, fwiw.

As far as highly ranked impact recruits, there's Art Heyman, Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Grant, etc. Kyrie and Austin were both seen similarly too. I am not qualified to parse the differences, and will quote what Jabari humbly stated: "we land guys like him all of the time." But there seems to be a consensus that this kid could really be something special. My hope is that after his time is done, people will be referring to younger kids as "the next Jabari!"

[sagegrouse]

Along those lines, I respectfully disagree with you (partially) regarding what has made this year's team better than last year. Addition by subtraction was always going to be a huge part of it. Austin wasn't very good. It's just a fact. He was simultaneously our least efficient and highest usage offensive player, a lethal combination. He changed the flow of our offense and the cohesion of our locker room. He was also part (but only part) of the problem on defense. I get that we may occasionally need to take a shot with players like Austin in today's recruiting environment, but last year we paid a high price for it. With Austin thankfully moving on to the NBA this year, we were able to simultaneously upgrade our offense and our perimeter defense by adding Rasheed in his place.

.

[YAWN] Aren't we done with bashing Austin? "Austin wasn't very good. It's just a fact," you say. Well,... here are some facts: he was Duke's leading scorer -- as a freshman; he made first-team All-ACC -- as a freshman; he is starting in the NBA -- as a 20YO; he made one of the top ten game-winning shots in Duke history -- maybe top five. He conducts himself, on camera and in print interviews, with maturity and self-awareness -- he is not a knucklehead.

Austin was hardly perfect, but when few freshmen produce so much at Duke or anywhere, his one-year stay was remarkable. Chemistry? We are blaming chemistry problems on a freshman? How about the coaches? And the upperclassmen?

Was there too much one-on-one basketball last year? Maybe, but that's also on the coaches and the other players. I suspect passing and playmaking would have been points of emphasis had he stayed another year or two.

Anyway, this meme is getting stale.

sagegrouse

[slower]

Austin wasn't very good. It's just a fact.

You know the old adage "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"? You should probably start living by that motto.

[OldPhiKap]

Austin was a very good player. He gets buckets. A healthy Quinn would have made last year's team a very different one.

But injuries are part of the game.

I appreciate Austin's play with us, and am glad he chose Duke. And his shot at Carolina will live on forever.

[lotusland]

Austin was a very good player. He gets buckets. A healthy Quinn would have made last year's team a very different one.

But injuries are part of the game.

I appreciate Austin's play with us, and am glad he chose Duke. And his shot at Carolina will live on forever.

As long as we are defending our guys ( who really don't need defending) Miles had some fine games and contributed a lot. I think it was the 2nd UNC game his junior year against Zeller and Henson that he really stepped up and defended the post to help get the win. Anyway it seems silly to even bother...

[Kedsy]

But when the time comes to think about next year (hopefully following a win at the end of this one), it has to start with an assessment of roster turnover, and in that regard the losses are easier to assess than the gains (once you know for sure who's leaving, that is).

The only response I want to make about Austin is I think he was a very good college player. If Ryan hadn't gotten injured late last season and we'd have advanced to the Sweet 16 (likely, if Ryan was in the lineup), then I don't think we'd be seeing all the Austin hate out there.

I would like to respond to your statement quoted above. I don't think it has to start with an assessment of roster turnover at all. In fact I don't think it should ever start there. What you have on your roster is what makes the team, not what you used to have. As long as we have players capable of playing at a high Duke-standard level for all 200 minutes (40 mins/5 positions) available in a game, I think that's your starting point. From there you can look at probable offensive and defensive matchups and how well the players' strengths should mesh. The previous year's roster should almost never enter the discussion, in my opinion.

[Class of '94]

I am amazed at the negative tweets Jabari has received for making a decision/choice that is his right to do so. I can't believe people would get so upset and be so insecure in themselves that they would give a kid a hard time because he didn't choose their school, and instead chose Duke. Do people hate and fear Duke that much to do crazy and stupid things like this??? Wow..........

Which lead me to my two questions for anyone that would care to respond to. Am I wrong to think that this makes other schools look bad in the eyes of potential recruits when they hear and see the kind of crap Jabari is getting from fans of those schools by not choosing [or choosing] certain schools? Or can it potentially hurt Duke by making potential recruits more hesitant to choose Duke out of concern or fear of receiving the kind of backlash Jabari has experienced by doing so?

Me personally, I'd like to think kids wouldn't be scared off by this kind of trash; but you never know what influences and goes into the thinking of a 17-18 year old.

Welcome to Duke Jabari......You made the right decision; and you'll accomplish of your basketball goals if you continue to work hard and listen to Coach K.

[moonpie23]

there's a big difference in the way that Jabari handled his recruitment and announcement vs, say, HWNSNBM. I hated the latter, but i never tweeted him or posted on his facebook.

i don't hold grudges, but i DO remember the FACTS down to the last detail.




also.........THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVpmz1HDLpg)

[jimsumner]

I'm probably showing my age to some of you young folks, but I can't get around the comparison of these two incredible athletes. Plus Banks brought such joy to the court (and to the stands, LOL). I honestly believe that Parker is the biggest impact player to commit to Duke since Tinkerbell, himself. Any thoughts?

In March of 1982, shortly after Duke lost to Wake Forest by 35 points in the ACC Tournament to end the season at 10-17, a McDonald's All-America guard from D.C. turned down Maryland, Notre Dame, Villanova and others to cast his lot with an unproven and embattled 35-year-old head coach.

So, no I don't think Jabari Parker is the biggest impact recruit since Gene Banks.

[Im4howdy]

As big as any of the aforementioned recruits were (and were to become), I feel Bank's commitment had an almost Messianic excitement to it. Fans "knew" that he was the missing piece to go along with G-Man, Spanarkel and etc. Not since Bill Bradley's commitment was there so much excitement over a recruit. Ferry was a great pick up for K, but he couldn't fly like Banks. Now I will admit there might have been as much excitement over the Battier, Brand and Burgess class, but that was a group.

And jimsummer, as for Dawkins, he was also an important K pickup, but was in no way as heralded as Banks or Parker. (In fact, Bilas says when he first visited with him, he asked him if his big brother was at home [i.e. not so impressive looking]).

I know all the Blue Devil Nations hopes Parker will be as great as the other recruits mentioned. I'm just saying IMHO, that there has not been as much excitement over a recruit since Gene Banks (and it's one man's opinion).

[moonpie23]

i really wish we didn't feel the need to compare him to some past greats when he hasn't played a single college game AND he's coming off an injury....

let's don't hang some crazy messiah pressure on him ala HWNSNBM....let's let HIM show us where he ranks in terms of great catches.....

[Indoor66]

i really wish we didn't feel the need to compare him to some past greats when he hasn't played a single college game AND he's coming off an injury....

let's don't hang some crazy messiah pressure on him ala HWNSNBM....let's let HIM show us where he ranks in terms of great catches.....

Well said but entirely to logical. We must immediately find a pigeon hole for him and then give him some contrived nickname. We ARE DBR. :p

[Starter]

In March of 1982, shortly after Duke lost to Wake Forest by 35 points in the ACC Tournament to end the season at 10-17, a McDonald's All-America guard from D.C. turned down Maryland, Notre Dame, Villanova and others to cast his lot with an unproven and embattled 35-year-old head coach.

So, no I don't think Jabari Parker is the biggest impact recruit since Gene Banks.

I'd put Battier up there too. IIRC, he was the first domino in one of the greatest classes of all time that signaled Krzyzewski's return to the absolute elite in the sport, back when there was a lot more competition in that regard. Not to mention, I recall him helping to round up the rest of the guys in that class. I think he lobbied Brand until he picked Duke? This isn't to say Krzyzewski couldn't have gotten him himself, but Battier's involvement and prior commitment couldn't have hurt. (If I have any of this wrong, feel free to correct.)

Granted, I'd still put Dawkins ahead of him since without him, maybe Krzyzewski never even truly gets off the ground. And I'm definitely biased towards Battier since I was in his class. But Shane had a heck of an impact as well.

Jabari is great, I'm ecstatic. But though I'm not saying he's a luxury recruit -- as if there even is such a thing -- he signs on with an undefeated No. 1 team, so it's not like he's coming to change the culture. I mean, Luol Deng was No. 2 in the country the year Duke got him, and nobody was going to beat out LeBron James that year. Where Jabari's impact starts to go up is if his committing affects the thinking of Tyus Jones and Okafor. They might have come anyway, but if they cite Jabari as an influence, then he's on his way up the ladder for his effect on what might be one last golden era for Krzyzewski.

[NSDukeFan]

[YAWN] Aren't we done with bashing Austin? "Austin wasn't very good. It's just a fact," you say. Well,... here are some facts: he was Duke's leading scorer -- as a freshman; he made first-team All-ACC -- as a freshman; he is starting in the NBA -- as a 20YO; he made one of the top ten game-winning shots in Duke history -- maybe top five. He conducts himself, on camera and in print interviews, with maturity and self-awareness -- he is not a knucklehead.

Austin was hardly perfect, but when few freshmen produce so much at Duke or anywhere, his one-year stay was remarkable. Chemistry? We are blaming chemistry problems on a freshman? How about the coaches? And the upperclassmen?

Was there too much one-on-one basketball last year? Maybe, but that's also on the coaches and the other players. I suspect passing and playmaking would have been points of emphasis had he stayed another year or two.

Anyway, this meme is getting stale.

sagegrouse


I am also tired of the bashing of a player who had one of the top 5 all-time freshman years at Duke. We would all have preferred a better finish to last season, but I don't believe that is reason to claim the best player on a 27 win, top 10 team was not very good. Ironic that some of these claims are made by Duke fans in the same thread as those criticizing (justifiably) other teams' fans reactions to Jabari's commitment to Duke.

[jimsumner]

I'd put Battier up there too. IIRC, he was the first domino in one of the greatest classes of all time that signaled Krzyzewski's return to the absolute elite in the sport, back when there was a lot more competition in that regard. Not to mention, I recall him helping to round up the rest of the guys in that class. I think he lobbied Brand until he picked Duke? This isn't to say Krzyzewski couldn't have gotten him himself, but Battier's involvement and prior commitment couldn't have hurt. (If I have any of this wrong, feel free to correct.)

Granted, I'd still put Dawkins ahead of him since without him, maybe Krzyzewski never even truly gets off the ground. And I'm definitely biased towards Battier since I was in his class. But Shane had a heck of an impact as well.

Jabari is great, I'm ecstatic. But though I'm not saying he's a luxury recruit -- as if there even is such a thing -- he signs on with an undefeated No. 1 team, so it's not like he's coming to change the culture. I mean, Luol Deng was No. 2 in the country the year Duke got him, and nobody was going to beat out LeBron James that year. Where Jabari's impact starts to go up is if his committing affects the thinking of Tyus Jones and Okafor. They might have come anyway, but if they cite Jabari as an influence, then he's on his way up the ladder for his effect on what might be one last golden era for Krzyzewski.

Okay, we're off on a tangent here. But, K's second most-important recruit, imo, was Danny Ferry. Not only was he the top-ranked player in the country, he was the first K recruit who also had been recruited by Dean Smith. Remember the context. Spring, 1985. K had won exactly one NCAA Tournament game, while Smith was only three years removed from his first NCAA title and seventh Final Four. Smith and K had gone head-to-head on Michael Jordan, Buzz Peterson, Steve Hale, Curtis Hunter, Kenny Smith and Dave Popson and Smith had won them all.

K was starting to compete with Smith on the court. But it was just as important for him to go toe-to-toe with Smith for a priority recruit and win. Ferry was that guy.

Turned out to be a decent college player.

And yes, the statement that Austin Rivers wasn't very good is a bit of a head-scratcher.

[toooskies]

And yes, the statement that Austin Rivers wasn't very good is a bit of a head-scratcher.

You can definitely say Austin had strengths and weaknesses. He was very strong at initiating penetration dribbles and shooting off the dribble. He was very weak at team-oriented basketball, like entry passes and shooting off a pass. He was adequate some other things, like finishing off the dribble and on-ball defense.

Now, he was NBA-level at the first two talents. Does that alone make him great? Even good? Well, if you believe "hero-ball" is a negative influence on all of basketball, then Austin Rivers can be called terrible-- his only talents were at negative or neutral skills. They'll win a few games in flashy ways, like UNC, but will fail more often. Thus the low-efficiency reference.

So, yeah. I get how you can judge him as bad. It's more a judgment of his style of his strengths and weaknesses.

[JNort]

I wouldn't and I know everyone else here agrees that Parker isn't the most important recruit ever. I mean I would say Kyrie's commitment was bigger than Parker's because it rejuvenated our recruiting. We had not gotten a commitment from a top tier pg since Greg Paulus who was considered by many a bust a few years later. We are currently having the same struggles getting a top tier big man to commit.

[timmy c]

I mean I would say Kyrie's commitment was bigger than Parker's because it rejuvenated our recruiting. We had not gotten a commitment from a top tier pg since Greg Paulus who was considered by many a bust a few years later.

This is revisionist at best. Duke missed on ONE point guard between Paulus and Irving – Wall. Suggesting that one miss creates an enviroment that needed “rejuvenated” is silly.

[Edouble]

This is revisionist at best. Duke missed on ONE point guard between Paulus and Irving – Wall. Suggesting that one miss creates an enviroment that needed “rejuvenated” is silly.

Kenny Boynton?

[timmy c]

Kenny Boynton?

I guess we can argue about the definition of point guard. Boynton has been used off the ball at Florida more than as a facilitator. If you include Boynton in the discussion, than you have to consider Jon Scheyer, Nolan Smith and Seth Curry as huge recruiting successes in between Paulus and Irving. Certainly hard to argue that Duke recruiting was down when you’re landing that kind of talent.

Back to Parker. He’s a basketball player with a fantastic skill set. Does he fit into a typical position? No. Does he count as a frontcourt recruiting success? I don’t know. He plays the same position Kyle Singler played at Duke: Winner.

[killerleft]

You can definitely say Austin had strengths and weaknesses. He was very strong at initiating penetration dribbles and shooting off the dribble. He was very weak at team-oriented basketball, like entry passes and shooting off a pass. He was adequate some other things, like finishing off the dribble and on-ball defense.

Now, he was NBA-level at the first two talents. Does that alone make him great? Even good? Well, if you believe "hero-ball" is a negative influence on all of basketball, then Austin Rivers can be called terrible-- his only talents were at negative or neutral skills. They'll win a few games in flashy ways, like UNC, but will fail more often. Thus the low-efficiency reference.

So, yeah. I get how you can judge him as bad. It's more a judgment of his style of his strengths and weaknesses.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but it appears that most of what you criticize Austin for are the things which Coach K obviously told him to do. Sagegrouse's post before yours pretty much summed up the (very) good side of Austin Rivers.

By the way, to get back on topic, there is absolutely no doubt that Johnny Dawkins will forever be the most important recruit Duke will ever get. No one else is even close. Just to leave a tiny escape-hole for my statement, it is possible that we may need another recruit as much as K needed Johnny. But that's in the hopefully distant future. I hope we get this hypthetical guy, because we're talking GIANT recruit here.

Art Heyman, Gene Banks, Danny Ferry, ... you name your favorites, they were superb gets for Duke, and great players all. It is a testament to the program that Coach K has built, and how much Dawkins was needed, that such players can only be on the second shelf.

Which brings things full circle. Johnny Dawkins and Austin Rivers are the only two Blue Devils (in my opinion) to be given the green light on offense to be as inventive, brilliant, and silly as they wanted to be as freshmen. JWill would have been given that freedom, probably, but he had more experienced and solid options on the court with him.

[striker219]

He plays the same position Kyle Singler played at Duke: Winner.

Now if only we can convince him to play that position for just as long...

[sagegrouse]

Of course I am going to give some weight to events back in my day:

Art Heyman is on the list. Duke won a tug-of-war with Frank McGuire at UNC. The tug-of-war made Heyman a highly visible recruit and give Vic Bubas an immediate success from which to launch his nationwide recruiting program. It has been covered here from time-to-time, but Bubas was arguably the greatest innovator in basketball recruiting. He systematically looked for players all over the country, when no one else was doing that. In the ACC Everett Case had a pipeline from the Midwest, although he had a certain number of eastern recruits, and Frank McGuire had the underground railroad from NYC.

Who was Foster's biggest recruit? Spanarkel or Gminski or Banks. Banks was the most-celebrated recruiting battle, but -- quite frankly -- we got no subsequent benefit in that Foster never landed another big-time recruit. I suppose it put Duke back on the national radar, along with the FF in 1978, and gave Coach K something to work with on the recruiting trail.

Dawkins was clearly very important. Without him and his confreres, Danny Ferry may not have looked twice at Duke.

Ferry was a big-deal recruit.

After that, I would think the highest profile recruits for Duke, in chron order, were--


Grant Hill
Shane Battier
Jason Williams
McRoberts
Scheyer and/or Singler
Kyrie
Rivers
Jabari

sagegrouse

[timmy c]

Grant Hill
Shane Battier
Jason Williams
McRoberts
Scheyer and/or Singler
Kyrie
Rivers
Jabari

sagegrouse

Great list! I wonder why you didn't include Christian Laettner and Elton Brand?

[lotusland]

Great list! I wonder why you didn't include Christian Laettner and Elton Brand?

I assume the list was high profile rather than high impact recruits. Randolph and Burgess would join McRoberts as guys whose impact was less than their profile. On the other hand there are quite a few of the all time high impact players who are not on the high profile recruit list. I think that dynamic will be even more prevalent on the future because the higher the profile, the shorter the college career. Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler and Mason
Plumlee are all higher impact recruits than Kyrie and Austin were. The only way Parker finishes ahead of those 3 is if he is a "disappointment" as an under-classman to the extent that he stays 3-4 years.

[oldnavy]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but it appears that most of what you criticize Austin for are the things which Coach K obviously told him to do. Sagegrouse's post before yours pretty much summed up the (very) good side of Austin Rivers.

By the way, to get back on topic, there is absolutely no doubt that Johnny Dawkins will forever be the most important recruit Duke will ever get. No one else is even close. Just to leave a tiny escape-hole for my statement, it is possible that we may need another recruit as much as K needed Johnny. But that's in the hopefully distant future. I hope we get this hypthetical guy, because we're talking GIANT recruit here.

Art Heyman, Gene Banks, Danny Ferry, ... you name your favorites, they were superb gets for Duke, and great players all. It is a testament to the program that Coach K has built, and how much Dawkins was needed, that such players can only be on the second shelf.

Which brings things full circle. Johnny Dawkins and Austin Rivers are the only two Blue Devils (in my opinion) to be given the green light on offense to be as inventive, brilliant, and silly as they wanted to be as freshmen. JWill would have been given that freedom, probably, but he had more experienced and solid options on the court with him.

I enjoyed Austin immensely last year and he won games for us that we would not have otherwise won, UNC being the prime example.

However I did notice something interesting when they interviewed Mason after the Elon game. They asked him what he thought the difference between this years team and last years was and Mason said this years team had "unselfish" players. Now take that for what it's worth, maybe nothing, but his statement and what I see on the court makes me think that this years team is enjoying itself much more than last years team.

Not really a slam on Austin per se, since as it has been pointed out Austin was doing what he was told to do, it is just that this years team with Quinn heathly and the other changes/improvements allows for more involvement for the other players and they seem to enjoy playing together.

Hey, God Bless you all and have a very Merry Christmas!!

[sagegrouse]

Great list! I wonder why you didn't include Christian Laettner and Elton Brand?

Jim Sumner and I may disagree on this, but Christian Laettner was a huge surprise. No one dreamed he would be one of the best college basketball players of all time. I seem to remember an SI profile on Duke at the time that described an extremely rich market for big men in 1988 (Alonzo Mourning and the like), and that neither Laettner nor Crawford Palmer, both really good players, were near the top of the list.

Brand? DBR went ape over Duke finally recruiting a wide-bodied player, but he was not at the top of most recruiting lists. The big get that year, in addition to Battier, was Chris Burgess, thought to be the best big man coming out of HS.

Actually, I forgot about the Chief -- Cherokee Parks was a big-time recruit.

sagegrouse

[oldnavy]

Jim Sumner and I may disagree on this, but Christian Laettner was a huge surprise. No one dreamed he would be one of the best college basketball players of all time. I seem to remember an SI profile on Duke at the time that described an extremely rich market for big men in 1988 (Alonzo Mourning and the like), and that neither Laettner nor Crawford Palmer, both really good players, were near the top of the list.

Brand? DBR went ape over Duke finally recruiting a wide-bodied player, but he was not at the top of most recruiting lists. The big get that year, in addition to Battier, was Chris Burgess, thought to be the best big man coming out of HS.

Actually, I forgot about the Chief -- Cherokee Parks was a big-time recruit.

sagegrouse

I remember a lot of buzz about Dawkins. Not sure how high he was rated, but I am pretty sure he was one of the top players. I will never forget watching JD warm up for the first game and how high he was getting over the rim on the lay up drill. He was the most athletic player we had gotten in a while...

[Kedsy]

I enjoyed Austin immensely last year and he won games for us that we would not have otherwise won, UNC being the prime example.

However I did notice something interesting when they interviewed Mason after the Elon game. They asked him what he thought the difference between this years team and last years was and Mason said this years team had "unselfish" players. Now take that for what it's worth, maybe nothing, but his statement and what I see on the court makes me think that this years team is enjoying itself much more than last years team.

Not really a slam on Austin per se, since as it has been pointed out Austin was doing what he was told to do, it is just that this years team with Quinn heathly and the other changes/improvements allows for more involvement for the other players and they seem to enjoy playing together.

Hey, God Bless you all and have a very Merry Christmas!!

There are guys who are really good, maybe even great, players who need the ball in their hands a lot in order to be good/great. Alan Iverson springs to mind. When you have a guy like that on your team, you pretty much have to give him the ball and let him do his thing. That's what gives you the best chance to win. But it's not always so much fun to play with a guy like that.

Austin was a great college player. It's possible the guys are more cohesive and are having more fun this year. The two statements are not mutually exclusive.

[Kedsy]

Jim Sumner and I may disagree on this, but Christian Laettner was a huge surprise. No one dreamed he would be one of the best college basketball players of all time. I seem to remember an SI profile on Duke at the time that described an extremely rich market for big men in 1988 (Alonzo Mourning and the like), and that neither Laettner nor Crawford Palmer, both really good players, were near the top of the list.

Brand? DBR went ape over Duke finally recruiting a wide-bodied player, but he was not at the top of most recruiting lists. The big get that year, in addition to Battier, was Chris Burgess, thought to be the best big man coming out of HS.

Actually, I forgot about the Chief -- Cherokee Parks was a big-time recruit.

sagegrouse

I agree with you about Laettner. He was an "honorable mention" type recruit, not an "All American" type recruit. I actually believe Crawford Palmer was a little more highly regarded, but my memory could be deceiving me on that one.

I think you're wrong about Brand, though. He was definitely a top ten recruit and was #1 on a lot of lists. Burgess had been #1 as a sophomore and/or a junior (and IIRC he was a fairly early commit to Duke so he was probably very highly rated when he committed), but by the end of his senior year he had faded. I'm pretty sure Brand was much more highly regarded than Burgess by the time Brand committed. Either way, I remember reading an article about how we'd recruited three guys who'd been #1 in the country at some time in high school.

[subzero02]

I agree with you about Laettner. He was an "honorable mention" type recruit, not an "All American" type recruit. I actually believe Crawford Palmer was a little more highly regarded, but my memory could be deceiving me on that one.

I think you're wrong about Brand, though. He was definitely a top ten recruit and was #1 on a lot of lists. Burgess had been #1 as a sophomore and/or a junior (and IIRC he was a fairly early commit to Duke so he was probably very highly rated when he committed), but by the end of his senior year he had faded. I'm pretty sure Brand was much more highly regarded than Burgess by the time Brand committed. Either way, I remember reading an article about how we'd recruited three guys who'd been #1 in the country at some time in high school.

Speaking of that class, it's hard for me to think of an ACC player who might've benefitted more from an additional year or two in college than William Avery.

[jimsumner]

Christian Laettner was a Parade and McDonald's All-America. Marginal top-10, defininitely top-15. He was ranked just ahead of Palmer and Rob Werdann, well behind Alonzo Mourning and about even with Jarrod Mustaf and Adam Keefe.

Duke targeted all of those big men except Mourning. It was a good class for bigs and that was a priority for Duke in that class.

Did anyone think Laettner would become arguably the best player in Duke history?

Well, no. But he didn't come out of nowhere, either. He was regarded as a major catch at the time.

Palmer was overrated, largely because he had some success against Mourning in some high-profile summer events.

By spring of 1997 it was widely understood in recruiting circles that Chris Burgess was a good prospect but badly over-hyped. Ken Burgess was a great press agent. Battier and Brand were more highly-regarded. Duke expected Brand to start right away. They expected Burgess to fight Domzalski for time off the bench.

Right both times.

But not alwasy right. The most overrated recruit in modern Duke history was two-time Parade A-A and McDonald's A-A Joey Beard. Mark Alarie with better ball skills. A high-profile target for Dean Smith and Jeff Jones almost jumped off a bridge when he lost Beard to Duke. Went into a very public rant about how Virginia prepsters owed it to their state to stay home.

So, even the best can mis-evaluate teenagers.

[roywhite]

But not alwasy right. The most overrated recruit in modern Duke history was two-time Parade A-A and McDonald's A-A Joey Beard. Mark Alarie with better ball skills. A high-profile target for Dean Smith and Jeff Jones almost jumped off a bridge when he lost Beard to Duke. Went into a very public rant about how Virginia prepsters owed it to their state to stay home.

So, even the best can mis-evaluate teenagers.

Yeah, Beard certainly, and also Ricky Price. In addition to being a McD A-A, he was on the First Team of the USA Today High School All-America selections.

Ex-Blue Devil Ricky Price finds a new lane in life

(http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/08/20/2281903/a-new-lane-on-life-onetime-duke.html)
Here's a recent article on Ricky.

Don't necessarily want to pick on guys who didn't live up to the hype; it happens at Duke and plenty of other places. Even our neighbor down the road on 15-501 has been known to have a miss or two.

[lotusland]

Yeah, Beard certainly, and also Ricky Price. In addition to being a McD A-A, he was on the First Team of the USA Today High School All-America selections.

Ex-Blue Devil Ricky Price finds a new lane in life

(http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/08/20/2281903/a-new-lane-on-life-onetime-duke.html)
Here's a recent article on Ricky.

Don't necessarily want to pick on guys who didn't live up to the hype; it happens at Duke and plenty of other places. Even our neighbor down the road on 15-501 has been known to have a miss or two.

I think Price's talent did match his hype but circumstances ( injuries and academic) led him to not quite live up to his potential.

[Edouble]

I guess we can argue about the definition of point guard. Boynton has been used off the ball at Florida more than as a facilitator. If you include Boynton in the discussion, than you have to consider Jon Scheyer, Nolan Smith and Seth Curry as huge recruiting successes in between Paulus and Irving. Certainly hard to argue that Duke recruiting was down when you’re landing that kind of talent.

Back to Parker. He’s a basketball player with a fantastic skill set. Does he fit into a typical position? No. Does he count as a frontcourt recruiting success? I don’t know. He plays the same position Kyle Singler played at Duke: Winner.

I recall Boynton being recruited specifically as a point guard. Kind of like an Avery/Nolan combo type that we were going to use as a point guard. I don't think we envisioned Curry or Scheyer as playing that position when they were recruited.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/columns/story?id=3471571

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?6029-Kenny-Boynton-recruitment&highlight=Kenny+Boynton

[JNort]

This is revisionist at best. Duke missed on ONE point guard between Paulus and Irving – Wall. Suggesting that one miss creates an enviroment that needed “rejuvenated” is silly.

What are you talking about? I never said anything about a "miss" in recruiting. I said we had not gotten a commit from a top tier pg in some time (4 years with 0 pg's) and if I stay on that same line of thought then Paulus shouldn't count either (Had the hype but never came to fruition). So in that case we had not had a "great" point guard since 2001! Thats 9 years without a top pg for a program that is considered ne of the best in the nation. Also coincidentally those 9 years (mainly after JJ left) people were saying K was losing his touch and many called for his job (Even some on here!).

[jimsumner]

The difference between Price and Beard is that Price actually performed at a reasonably high-level at Duke, third-team All-ACC as a sophomore but couldn't maintain that.

Beard never played at a high level at Duke.

The difference between Boynton and Wall is that Duke actually recruited Boynton. The Wall recruitment had more to do with street cred from a Duke perspective. Duke never really had a chance on Wall and never actually thought it did. The Duke-Wall connection benefited both parties from a PR perspective.

[gumbomoop]

Yeah, Beard certainly, and also Ricky Price. In addition to being a McD A-A, he was on the First Team of the USA Today High School All-America selections.

Ex-Blue Devil Ricky Price finds a new lane in life (http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/08/20/2281903/a-new-lane-on-life-onetime-duke.html)

Many thanks for this article link. I suppose I sort of knew what happened Price's senior year, including the reasons for his relegation to spot minutes, at most. But I felt bad for Price, and vaguely recall being ticked at K for his "treatment" of a senior who seemed to deserve better than the doghouse.

I'm glad he got caught for the plagiarism. I'm not glad he and K didn't speak for 5 years, but can sure understand it, from both sides. Good for Carrawell, btw.

I'm also glad that K is quoted on the record as saying he made a mistake with Price, whose own stubbornness obviously played a big role in the way his relationship with his coach collapsed his senior year. When K says, "I should have intervened," that suggests this was one of those moments when, looking back, he himself learned something about the importance of communication.

Very warm "where is their relationship now" final paragraphs. Nice, nice story. Thanks again, roywhite.

[sporthenry]

As far as comparing Jabari to 80's or early 90's recruits. It is just impossible to compare eras. It is like comparing Ruth to Pujols. Not only in the different era of college basketball but a different era with K. Without some of those early recruits, K might not be here. Additionally, recruiting back then wasn't that big of a deal. KG was the first to grace a SI cover in '95. RSCI only goes back to 1998. With the internet, people are just that more involved in recruiting and players are pimped as the next "Lebron" or "Anthony Davis" so people get excited.

As far as Jabari, he is probably the biggest recruiting battle win in a while, mainly b/c Duke gets a decent amount of recruits fairly early like Sheed, Jones, etc. But Duke isn't like FSU where a Wiggins will hopefully propel them into MSU, UCONN, or Syracuse territory. If anything, Kyrie did as much as anyone being the #1 pick coming from Duke or any part of the 2010 team did proving Duke could win again. The two biggest questions surrounding Duke in 2009 was the lack of success by their players in the pros and lack of success in the tourney. Duke hadn't been in the FF since 2004 and their draft picks between 2005 and 2009 included Daniel Ewing, Shelden, JJ, McBob and G. Shelden was somewhat of a bust, JJ was somewhat of a running joke even though he was good.

Since then, Duke has won a title, thus alleviating the fact that they can't win in March and they've sent Kyrie to the league.

[jimsumner]

As far as comparing Jabari to 80's or early 90's recruits. It is just impossible to compare eras. It is like comparing Ruth to Pujols. Not only in the different era of college basketball but a different era with K. Without some of those early recruits, K might not be here. Additionally, recruiting back then wasn't that big of a deal. KG was the first to grace a SI cover in '95. RSCI only goes back to 1998. With the internet, people are just that more involved in recruiting and players are pimped as the next "Lebron" or "Anthony Davis" so people get excited.

As far as Jabari, he is probably the biggest recruiting battle win in a while, mainly b/c Duke gets a decent amount of recruits fairly early like Sheed, Jones, etc. But Duke isn't like FSU where a Wiggins will hopefully propel them into MSU, UCONN, or Syracuse territory. If anything, Kyrie did as much as anyone being the #1 pick coming from Duke or any part of the 2010 team did proving Duke could win again. The two biggest questions surrounding Duke in 2009 was the lack of success by their players in the pros and lack of success in the tourney. Duke hadn't been in the FF since 2004 and their draft picks between 2005 and 2009 included Daniel Ewing, Shelden, JJ, McBob and G. Shelden was somewhat of a bust, JJ was somewhat of a running joke even though he was good.

Since then, Duke has won a title, thus alleviating the fact that they can't win in March and they've sent Kyrie to the league.

Well, actually Tom McMillen was on the cover of SI while in high school. But he was an outlier.

Jerry Lucas, Lew Alcindor and Rick Mount also got a lot of national coverage as prepsters. But it was rare.

Two events in the 1970s really contributed to the explosion of interest in recruiting. The first was freshman eligibility. Prior to that, we had a year of freshman ball to evaluate a young player. The other was the establishment of the McDonald's All-Star game and the attendant hoopla.

Then we add ESPN, national recruiting specialists like Clark Francis and Bob Gibbons, recruiting sites like rivals and scout, the internet,message boards, social media and now we have folks following 14-year-olds. Top-20 wings whose voices haven't yet changed? We got it.

I'm not sure this is all for the better. But it's not going away.

[Edouble]

What are you talking about? I never said anything about a "miss" in recruiting. I said we had not gotten a commit from a top tier pg in some time (4 years with 0 pg's) and if I stay on that same line of thought then Paulus shouldn't count either (Had the hype but never came to fruition). So in that case we had not had a "great" point guard since 2001! Thats 9 years without a top pg for a program that is considered ne of the best in the nation. Also coincidentally those 9 years (mainly after JJ left) people were saying K was losing his touch and many called for his job (Even some on here!).

Good point about Paulus, but I insist that Duhon was "great" his senior year. He controlled the flow of a game on both ends of the court like few players can.

[turnandburn55]

Grant Hill
Shane Battier
Jason Williams
McRoberts
Scheyer and/or Singler
Kyrie
Rivers
Jabari

sagegrouse

Not sure I specifically remember Scheyer being a "big time recruit" in the sense of the other cats. To name two others who were "high profile" but not "high impact"-- Shaun Livingston and Shavlik Randolph.

[subzero02]

Not sure I specifically remember Scheyer being a "big time recruit" in the sense of the other cats. To name two others who were "high profile" but not "high impact"-- Shaun Livingston and Shavlik Randolph.

Scheyer was a McDonald's all american but was not considered to be on the same level as a Livingston or Randolph.

[sagegrouse]

Not sure I specifically remember Scheyer being a "big time recruit" in the sense of the other cats. To name two others who were "high profile" but not "high impact"-- Shaun Livingston and Shavlik Randolph.

You are probably right.

But it was high profile in a couple of senses: Scheyer's HS coach was Bruce Weber's brother, when Weber was the head coach at Illinois. Then there is that 21 points in 75 seconds Youtube. And Scheyer did win a NC and was consensus 2nd-team All-American his senior year.

sagegrouse

[BobbyFan]

I am also tired of the bashing of a player who had one of the top 5 all-time freshman years at Duke.

I'm not sure that this is true, or more importantly, how significant this statement is. Production during freshman seasons can be quite dependent on opportunity. All things considered equal, I would easily take the following K era players ahead of Rivers as freshman: Dawkins, Laettner, Hill, Brand, Williams, Deng, Irving. Players like Maggette, Boozer, Redick, and Singler would also have arguments.


I think you're wrong about Brand, though. He was definitely a top ten recruit and was #1 on a lot of lists. Burgess had been #1 as a sophomore and/or a junior (and IIRC he was a fairly early commit to Duke so he was probably very highly rated when he committed), but by the end of his senior year he had faded. I'm pretty sure Brand was much more highly regarded than Burgess by the time Brand committed.

This is spot on. And by the time the final rankings had come out, McGrady had come out of nowhere to get the #1 slot. Burgess was number one earlier in high school, having taken it from Schea Cotton who was ridiculously hyped since middle school, but faded once he stopped growing and, IIRC, suffered injuries as well.

[drcharl]

Parker is quoted as saying this about in a recent Chicago Sun-Times article as he says he chose because of Coach K. Anyone know why? Did we learn anything about the campus visit for future recruiting?

[oldnavy]

Parker is quoted as saying this about in a recent Chicago Sun-Times article as he says he chose because of Coach K. Anyone know why? Did we learn anything about the campus visit for future recruiting?

Parker mentioned that he wanted to be a kid during the visit, but the staff were all business. I guess that means that K and company didn't want to entertain him as much as they wanted to show him what it meant to be a part of the Duke family.

This approach will not work on every recruit, but for a serious and seamingly well ground fellow like Jabari it was what he needed to hear.

[sagegrouse]

Parker is quoted as saying this about in a recent Chicago Sun-Times article as he says he chose because of Coach K. Anyone know why? Did we learn anything about the campus visit for future recruiting?

It was a positive. Jabari just wanted to come down and have fun -- "be a kid," he said. The visit was "all business." Coach K told him everything that he would be doing on both O and D. It appeared to work.....;)

Anyone else sense that K is "all business" to a remarkable degree this year?

sagegrouse

[devildeac]

It was a positive. Jabari just wanted to come down and have fun -- "be a kid," he said. The visit was "all business." Coach K told him everything that he would be doing on both O and D. It appeared to work.....;)

Anyone else sense that K is "all business" to a remarkable degree this year?

sagegrouse

In some ways, yes, he appears/sounds "all business" this season. But, in some quotes locally, he is quite pleased with the results so far and indicated he expected some rustiness in both games last week after about 10 days off for exams. He mentioned the difficult stretch the team had with the schedule so far and then preparing for and completing the fall semester and then back to the hardwood. He also was quite definitive in saying they were off until the 26th to spend time with their families and would spend 2-3 days preparing for Santa Clara. He really appears to value the breaks they are having.

[BD80]

... Jabari ... is probably the biggest recruiting battle win in a while, ...

There are so many factors in this discussion, it is perfect for the board.

Is it a "battle" when we "land" a kid that everybody wants, but the kid has his heart set on Duke? ie JJ?

Is it a "battle" when we are a kid's second choice, but his first choice chooses a different player at his position?

Is it "big" because a kid is loquacious and gets tons of media attention (Kyrie, JWill) or craves attention and panders to the media (HBarnes, TParker)?

Do we evaluate "big" based upon high school ranking or college performance? One and done v 4 year contributer?

I would put Shane up near the top, because he was greatly desired by a multitude of programs, as much for his leadership and poise as for his basketball skills. He was the one you build programs around. Coaches were sorely disappointed when he chose Duke.

Although I put Jabari in the same category as Shane with respect to intangibles, I don't think he is as "big" a get due to the possibility that he will not spend 4 years at Duke.

[sporthenry]

There are so many factors in this discussion, it is perfect for the board.

Is it a "battle" when we "land" a kid that everybody wants, but the kid has his heart set on Duke? ie JJ?

Is it a "battle" when we are a kid's second choice, but his first choice chooses a different player at his position?

Is it "big" because a kid is loquacious and gets tons of media attention (Kyrie, JWill) or craves attention and panders to the media (HBarnes, TParker)?

Do we evaluate "big" based upon high school ranking or college performance? One and done v 4 year contributer?

I would put Shane up near the top, because he was greatly desired by a multitude of programs, as much for his leadership and poise as for his basketball skills. He was the one you build programs around. Coaches were sorely disappointed when he chose Duke.

Although I put Jabari in the same category as Shane with respect to intangibles, I don't think he is as "big" a get due to the possibility that he will not spend 4 years at Duke.
Yeah, I tried to make a statement that wouldn't ruffle too many feathers on either side. I like Jabari and think he'll be very good but I'm also not going to put him in the Shane category especially when he will only be a 1 and done. But my point of reference was really the last 5-8 years. I'd put him in the same category as a McBob and a Singler. From what I remember with Kyrie was that he sort of came on towards the end. By the summer RSCI had him at #5ish and he seemed to be a pretty heavy Duke lean in the sense that I don't really remember where else he was considering.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?14422-Kyrie-Irving-recruitment

I went back and read it. It seems we really wanted Brandon Knight and some thought Kyrie would be a 3-4 year player and he only got a recruitment started in February of his junior year so he sort of came out of nowhere and shot up the charts and we were all enthralled by HB by that time. And Kyrie had already kicked IU out so it seemed like he was leaning Duke.

That said, I'd say a big recruit is a top 10-15 recruit who Duke battles out with other blue bloods like they did with Jabari.

[Starter]

There are so many factors in this discussion, it is perfect for the board.

Is it a "battle" when we "land" a kid that everybody wants, but the kid has his heart set on Duke? ie JJ?

Is it a "battle" when we are a kid's second choice, but his first choice chooses a different player at his position?

Is it "big" because a kid is loquacious and gets tons of media attention (Kyrie, JWill) or craves attention and panders to the media (HBarnes, TParker)?

Do we evaluate "big" based upon high school ranking or college performance? One and done v 4 year contributer?

I would put Shane up near the top, because he was greatly desired by a multitude of programs, as much for his leadership and poise as for his basketball skills. He was the one you build programs around. Coaches were sorely disappointed when he chose Duke.

Although I put Jabari in the same category as Shane with respect to intangibles, I don't think he is as "big" a get due to the possibility that he will not spend 4 years at Duke.

Agreed entirely with this entire post.

If you want to, by the way, I think you can put Kyrie and Austin up there as impact recruits for the reason that they were coveted, ranked highly and rubbed off a certain cool factor on Duke. Kyrie being a 1-and-done No. 1 pick who was instantly arguably a top 5 point guard in the league, then Rivers having a slick game and vibe to match and going Top 10, those things help Duke's perception for future recruits. I feel like for a while, even though Duke basketball was winning games (and a championship!), it still wasn't quite viewed as the cool place to be. You get a couple guys like Kyrie and Austin, it resonates with the younger generation in a way that simply winning games with solid fundamentals does not. The combination of hype players and a perpetual Top 5 ranking, plus a dash of Team USA and the storied college atmosphere and such, and Krzyzewski is in perfect position to nab a guy like Jabari Parker, even if his recruiting visit wasn't reminiscent of one Jesus Shuttlesworth might have taken. And then Parker keeps that going, even if he leaves after 1 year. Perhaps especially if he leaves after one year, though that's certainly up for debate.

I'm not saying it's a great thing this is the way it is, but so be it, hence the importance of Kyrie and Rivers to Krzyzewski's golden twilight, in terms of setting himself up to reinvent Duke one last great time, perhaps.

[Rich]

Jim Sumner and I may disagree on this, but Christian Laettner was a huge surprise. No one dreamed he would be one of the best college basketball players of all time. I seem to remember an SI profile on Duke at the time that described an extremely rich market for big men in 1988 (Alonzo Mourning and the like), and that neither Laettner nor Crawford Palmer, both really good players, were near the top of the list.

I'm currently reading "The Last Great Game" by Gene Wojo (same long Polish name as a Duke assistant coach) and he notes that Crawford Palmer was actually thought of to be the better recruit than Laettner by most familiar with HS basketball, including the Duke staff.

[juise]

If you want to, by the way, I think you can put Kyrie and Austin up there as impact recruits for the reason that they were coveted, ranked highly and rubbed off a certain cool factor on Duke.

Kyrie doesn't up Duke's cool factor that much. ;)


3076

[OldPhiKap]

Kyrie doesn't up Duke's cool factor that much. ;)


3076

He gets buckets.

[79-77]

I am also tired of the bashing of a player who had one of the top 5 all-time freshman years at Duke. We would all have preferred a better finish to last season, but I don't believe that is reason to claim the best player on a 27 win, top 10 team was not very good. Ironic that some of these claims are made by Duke fans in the same thread as those criticizing (justifiably) other teams' fans reactions to Jabari's commitment to Duke.

Just out of curiosity -- what is this based on? Any numbers, or just your view as a Duke fan? I can think of plenty of Duke players that had very strong freshman years. OTOH, most of them had better support than Rivers had last year.

IMHO, there were aspects to Rivers' game that were fair to criticize. However, the same is true of just about everyone on last year's team. I suspect Coach K determined early on that the team needed Rivers to lead the offense and encouraged him to do so. Bottom line is that he was the best player on a team that had a disappointing season, and he suffered a bit by comparison with Irving, and the team is much better this year -- so it's natural, if a bit unfair, for people to connect the dots and end up blaming Rivers.


Okay, we're off on a tangent here. But, K's second most-important recruit, imo, was Danny Ferry. Not only was he the top-ranked player in the country, he was the first K recruit who also had been recruited by Dean Smith. Remember the context. Spring, 1985. K had won exactly one NCAA Tournament game, while Smith was only three years removed from his first NCAA title and seventh Final Four. Smith and K had gone head-to-head on Michael Jordan, Buzz Peterson, Steve Hale, Curtis Hunter, Kenny Smith and Dave Popson and Smith had won them all.

K was starting to compete with Smith on the court. But it was just as important for him to go toe-to-toe with Smith for a priority recruit and win. Ferry was that guy.

Turned out to be a decent college player.

And yes, the statement that Austin Rivers wasn't very good is a bit of a head-scratcher.

Good call. Ferry was another Duke player who had a terrific freshman year, btw.



I think you're wrong about Brand, though. He was definitely a top ten recruit and was #1 on a lot of lists. Burgess had been #1 as a sophomore and/or a junior (and IIRC he was a fairly early commit to Duke so he was probably very highly rated when he committed), but by the end of his senior year he had faded. I'm pretty sure Brand was much more highly regarded than Burgess by the time Brand committed. Either way, I remember reading an article about how we'd recruited three guys who'd been #1 in the country at some time in high school.

This is my recollection as well.


Agreed entirely with this entire post.

If you want to, by the way, I think you can put Kyrie and Austin up there as impact recruits for the reason that they were coveted, ranked highly and rubbed off a certain cool factor on Duke. Kyrie being a 1-and-done No. 1 pick who was instantly arguably a top 5 point guard in the league, then Rivers having a slick game and vibe to match and going Top 10, those things help Duke's perception for future recruits. I feel like for a while, even though Duke basketball was winning games (and a championship!), it still wasn't quite viewed as the cool place to be. You get a couple guys like Kyrie and Austin, it resonates with the younger generation in a way that simply winning games with solid fundamentals does not. The combination of hype players and a perpetual Top 5 ranking, plus a dash of Team USA and the storied college atmosphere and such, and Krzyzewski is in perfect position to nab a guy like Jabari Parker, even if his recruiting visit wasn't reminiscent of one Jesus Shuttlesworth might have taken. And then Parker keeps that going, even if he leaves after 1 year. Perhaps especially if he leaves after one year, though that's certainly up for debate.

I'm not saying it's a great thing this is the way it is, but so be it, hence the importance of Kyrie and Rivers to Krzyzewski's golden twilight, in terms of setting himself up to reinvent Duke one last great time, perhaps.

Good post.

[CDu]

I think you're wrong about Brand, though. He was definitely a top ten recruit and was #1 on a lot of lists. Burgess had been #1 as a sophomore and/or a junior (and IIRC he was a fairly early commit to Duke so he was probably very highly rated when he committed), but by the end of his senior year he had faded. I'm pretty sure Brand was much more highly regarded than Burgess by the time Brand committed. Either way, I remember reading an article about how we'd recruited three guys who'd been #1 in the country at some time in high school.

Both Brand and Burgess (and Battier) were huge gets. All 3 were #1 in somebody's eyes at some point, and all three were top-10 recruits. I don't know that it would be fair to say that Brand was "much more highly regarded than Burgess by the time Brand committed."

[CDu]

Just out of curiosity -- what is this based on? Any numbers, or just your view as a Duke fan? I can think of plenty of Duke players that had very strong freshman years. OTOH, most of them had better support than Rivers had last year.

In terms of points per game (he averaged 15.5 ppg), it's on the short list of best freshman seasons ever at Duke. Of course, part of that is a function of Duke not typically needing a freshman to score a lot. But I do believe it ranks top-5 in terms of points per game among Duke freshmen. That being said, when all factors are taken into account, it doesn't compare to the freshman seasons of the following players (in no particular order):

Gminski (15.3 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 3.3 bpg)
Banks (17.1 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.4 spg)
Dawkins (18.1 ppg, 4.8 apg, 4.1 rpg)
Williams (14.5 ppg, 6.5 apg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 spg)
Brand (13.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 1.5 spg, 59.2 fg%)
Alarie (13.0 ppg, 6.5 rpg)
Deng (15.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 1.3 spg)

I'd put it more on par with the freshman year of Singler (13.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg), and just ahead of Redick (15.0 ppg).


Good call. Ferry was another Duke player who had a terrific freshman year, btw.

Actually, Ferry (5.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 22.8 mpg) had a pretty pedestrian statistical season as a freshman. The team did really well, but that was largely on the shoulders of Dawkins, Alarie, and Henderson. Ferry was probably #5 or #6 in the pecking order (competing with Bilas). Ferry had a solid sophomore year (14.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg), but he didn't really become a star until his junior year.

[roywhite]

In terms of points per game (he averaged 15.5 ppg), it's on the short list of best freshman seasons ever at Duke. Of course, part of that is a function of Duke not typically needing a freshman to score a lot. But I do believe it ranks top-5 in terms of points per game among Duke freshmen. That being said, when all factors are taken into account, it doesn't compare to the freshman seasons of the following players (in no particular order):

Gminski (15.3 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 3.3 bpg)
Banks (17.1 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.4 spg)
Dawkins (18.1 ppg, 4.8 apg, 4.1 rpg)
Williams (14.5 ppg, 6.5 apg, 4.2 rpg, 2.4 spg)
Brand (13.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 1.5 spg, 59.2 fg%)
Alarie (13.0 ppg, 6.5 rpg)
Deng (15.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 1.3 spg)



Good break down, and well supported.

I've got to go with Gene Banks as having the most impactful freshman season.

In addition to the fine all-around numbers shown, he was a key factor in taking a team from:
14-13 overall 2-10 ACC

to
ACC Tournament Champs
NCAA Finalist
27-7 overall

[oldnavy]

Good break down, and well supported.

I've got to go with Gene Banks as having the most impactful freshman season.

In addition to the fine all-around numbers shown, he was a key factor in taking a team from:
14-13 overall 2-10 ACC

to
ACC Tournament Champs
NCAA Finalist
27-7 overall

"Tinkerbell" did that?? I loved that team...

[sagegrouse]

Originally Posted by NSDukeFan
I am also tired of the bashing of a player who had one of the top 5 all-time freshman years at Duke. We would all have preferred a better finish to last season, but I don't believe that is reason to claim the best player on a 27 win, top 10 team was not very good. Ironic that some of these claims are made by Duke fans in the same thread as those criticizing (justifiably) other teams' fans reactions to Jabari's commitment to Duke.



Just out of curiosity -- what is this based on? Any numbers, or just your view as a Duke fan? I can think of plenty of Duke players that had very strong freshman years. OTOH, most of them had better support than Rivers had last year.

IMHO, there were aspects to Rivers' game that were fair to criticize. However, the same is true of just about everyone on last year's team. I suspect Coach K determined early on that the team needed Rivers to lead the offense and encouraged him to do so. Bottom line is that he was the best player on a team that had a disappointing season, and he suffered a bit by comparison with Irving, and the team is much better this year -- so it's natural, if a bit unfair, for people to connect the dots and end up blaming Rivers.

Top five all-time freshman years at Duke? NS Duke Fan is too busy recovering from his Boxing Day celebration in Nova Scotia to respond.

Rivers: only 1st team All-ACC freshman in Duke history; JDawkins was 2nd team; JJ, Kyle and JWill were 3rd team.

Second highest scoring average for a freshman at Duke in the modern era: 15.5 vs. 18.1 for JD; Gminski was 15.3 (and 10.7 boards!); JJ was 15.0; JWill was 15.3; Elton was 13.4 with 7.3 boards in an injury-curtailed season; Kyle was 13.3 PPG; Grant was 11.2 on a NC team.

My top five in chronological order: Gminski, JDawkins, Grant Hill, JWill, and Austin.

sagegrouse
'And let me tell you, Heyman, Mullins and Verga had tremendous freshmen years -- but on the freshman team'

[CDu]

Rivers: only 1st team All-ACC freshman in Duke history; JDawkins was 2nd team; JJ, Kyle and JWill were 3rd team.

All-conference teams are a poor metric, because the quality of the conference varies from year to year. It's especially true in more recent years, when the middle-bottom of the conference stinks. And it's also true now when the best players in the conference are long gone before their senior years. Back in Dawkins' day, it was nearly impossible for a freshman to make the all-ACC first team, because guys like Perkins, Sampson, Jordan, etc were all still in school. Had guys like Irving, Favors, Davis, Shumpert, and Jackson stayed in school, there's no way Rivers makes the 1st team.


Second highest scoring average for a freshman at Duke in the modern era: 15.5 vs. 18.1 for JD; Gminski was 15.3 (and 10.7 boards!); JJ was 15.0; JWill was 15.3; Elton was 13.4 with 7.3 boards in an injury-curtailed season; Kyle was 13.3 PPG; Grant was 11.2 on a NC team.

Scoring average is a very limited view of a player's contributions. Williams averaged 14.5 ppg, but he added 6.5 apg, 4.2 rpg, and 2.4 spg. Brand got his 13.4 ppg shooting 59.2% from the field on an incredibly deep team (he only played 23.5 mpg!). And for the record, Rivers only has the third highest PPG average for a freshman (you omitted Tinkerbell's 17.1 ppg in 1978).


My top five in chronological order: Gminski, JDawkins, Grant Hill, JWill, and Austin.

My top 5, in no particular order: Gminski, Banks, Dawkins, Williams, Brand. My next five: Deng, Hill, Hurley, Alarie, Singler/Rivers.

[sagegrouse]

All-conference teams are a poor metric, because the quality of the conference varies from year to year. It's especially true in more recent years, when the middle-bottom of the conference stinks. And it's also true now when the best players in the conference are long gone before their senior years. Back in Dawkins' day, it was nearly impossible for a freshman to make the all-ACC first team, because guys like Perkins, Sampson, Jordan, etc were all still in school. Had guys like Irving, Favors, Davis, Shumpert, and Jackson stayed in school, there's no way Rivers makes the 1st team.



Scoring average is a very limited view of a player's contributions. Williams averaged 14.5 ppg, but he added 6.5 apg, 4.2 rpg, and 2.4 spg. Brand got his 13.4 ppg shooting 59.2% from the field on an incredibly deep team (he only played 23.5 mpg!). And for the record, Rivers only has the third highest PPG average for a freshman (you omitted Tinkerbell's 17.1 ppg in 1978).



My top 5, in no particular order: Gminski, Banks, Dawkins, Williams, Brand. My next five: Deng, Hill, Hurley, Alarie, Singler/Rivers.

The original question: what is the basis for saying that Austin had one of the top five freshman seasons at Duke? My answer suggested valid reasons, I think.

You have a different take on the question.

But you are right -- I missed Gene Banks and his Final Four. He was 2nd team All-ACC. Also, our star who was born in Wow, Sudan deserves mention -- averaging 15.1 in 2004 and making 3rd team All-ACC and aiding a FF team.

The other factor is that Gminski and JD were mainstays of really awful teams, 2-10 and 3-11 in the conference. And, yes, I was in Atlanta although not at Denny's, when Duke got abused by UVa, 109-66 at the ACC Tournament in 1983. It is enough to keep either or both from being in the top one or two positions.

WRT to watered down competition: I have no idea how to adjust for that, and I am not sure you should. The question was "best season" not "best player."

In terms of competition for All-ACC positions: you forgot to mention that there are 12 ACC teams now vs. 7, 8 or 9 in earlier eras.

I ain't putting Brand in the top five -- he missed one-half the season. If he had been healthy all season, it may have been the best freshman season of all. Except, of course, if Kyrie had been healthy. Injury time is a negative.

If I were to add Banks to the top five (Final Four and all), I would probably still keep Austin there.

sagegrouse

[NSDukeFan]

All-conference teams are a poor metric, because the quality of the conference varies from year to year. It's especially true in more recent years, when the middle-bottom of the conference stinks. And it's also true now when the best players in the conference are long gone before their senior years. Back in Dawkins' day, it was nearly impossible for a freshman to make the all-ACC first team, because guys like Perkins, Sampson, Jordan, etc were all still in school. Had guys like Irving, Favors, Davis, Shumpert, and Jackson stayed in school, there's no way Rivers makes the 1st team.



Scoring average is a very limited view of a player's contributions. Williams averaged 14.5 ppg, but he added 6.5 apg, 4.2 rpg, and 2.4 spg. Brand got his 13.4 ppg shooting 59.2% from the field on an incredibly deep team (he only played 23.5 mpg!). And for the record, Rivers only has the third highest PPG average for a freshman (you omitted Tinkerbell's 17.1 ppg in 1978).



My top 5, in no particular order: Gminski, Banks, Dawkins, Williams, Brand. My next five: Deng, Hill, Hurley, Alarie, Singler/Rivers.

I was surprised to see how good G-man, Banks and even J-Will were in their freshmen years. You have made some good points, but I agree with sagegrouse in that I could not list Brand's half season ahead of Rivers, Alarie's season as the second best player on a 11-17 team, Singler's season as the second best player with not as much scoring on a similar strength team ahead of Rivers. I would still likely list Rivers' freshman season as top 5 ever at Duke, but it is much closer than I originally thought.

[Starter]

Following up on Kyrie paying dividends as an impact recruit, check out this tweet from his account just now:


“@Tyusjones06: Follow back big bruh, it's Tyus from the elite 24... @KyrieIrving” got you Lil bro, keep doing your thing, #BlueDevilNation

The #BlueDevilNation was obviously added by Kyrie, but point taken, hopefully. (No pun intended) People will credit Jabari if K collects a Fab 4 style class for 2014, but again, I think Rivers and *especially* Kyrie would have something to do with that.

[yancem]

Can we move the Rivers discussion to the "Defending Austin Rivers" thread! Not that i have a problem with the discussion, I'd rather talk about Parker on his thread and Rivers on his. Makes things much easier to follow.

[roywhite]

Following up on Kyrie paying dividends as an impact recruit, check out this tweet from his account just now:



The #BlueDevilNation was obviously added by Kyrie, but point taken, hopefully. (No pun intended) People will credit Jabari if K collects a Fab 4 style class for 2014, but again, I think Rivers and *especially* Kyrie would have something to do with that.

...with an assist somewhere in there from Coach K's success with the USA team and the endorsements of many of those star players. Hard to break down individual factors, but seems to be a plus for recruiting.

[NSDukeFan]

I had put the end of this chart in the Austin Rivers thread, which I believe is closed. Here is a list of some of Duke's best years by freshmen from Spanarkel to Battier.


Player MPG PPG Other stats team record All-ACC teammates recognition
Jim Spanarkel n/a 13.3 4.4 rpg 54.8%fg 13-14 Tate Armstrong Jr. (1st) ACC ROY
Mike Gminski 34.7 15.3 10.7 rpg 3.3bpg 14-13 Jim Spanarkel (2nd) co-ACC ROY
Gene Banks 33.4 17.1 8.6 rpg 27-7 Spanarkel, Gminski (1st) 2nd team ACC, ROY
Johnny Dawkins 35.8 18.1 4.8 apg 50%Fg 11-17 2nd team ACC
Mark Alarie 28 13 6.8 rpg 11-18 Dawkins (2nd)
Danny Ferry 22.8 5.9 5.5rpg 37-3 Dawkins, Alarie (1st)
Christian Laettner16.9 8.9 4.7 rpg 28-8 Ferry (1st)
Bobby Hurley 33.4 8.8 7.6 apg, 1.8spg 29-9 Laettner, P. Henderson (2nd), Abdelnaby (3rd)
Grant Hill 24.6 11.2 5.1 rpg 32-7 Laettner (1st), Hurley, T. Hill (3rd)
Trajan Langdon 25.7 11.3 42.8% 3pfg 13-18 Cherokee Parks (2nd)
Elton Brand 23.5 13.4 7.3 rpg 59% fg 32-4 Langdon, R.Macleod (1st) Wojo (3rd)
Shane Battier 24.6 7.6 6.4 rpg 32-4 Langdon, R.Macleod (1st) Wojo (3rd)

Duke has had some great players who have had some fantastic freshmen season.

[UrinalCake]

...with an assist somewhere in there from Coach K's success with the USA team and the endorsements of many of those star players. Hard to break down individual factors, but seems to be a plus for recruiting.

Yeah, the same people who were criticizing Coach K back in 2008, saying his National Team commitments were detracting from his time and ability to coach Duke, are now saying that he has an unfair recruiting advantage.

[Edouble]

Yeah, the same people who were criticizing Coach K back in 2008, saying his National Team commitments were detracting from his time and ability to coach Duke, are now saying that he has an unfair recruiting advantage.

He has always had an unfair recruiting advantage though... he is the only one that can offer a recruit the chance to play for the best coach on the planet. ;)

[duketaylor]

6PM espn2. We'll see if his conditioning has improved.

[OldPhiKap]

6PM espn2. We'll see if his conditioning has improved.

Do we need a Jabari Parker conditioning vigil? ;-)

[burnspbesq]

Do we need a Jabari Parker conditioning vigil? ;-)

ChatBot'll get you for that. :-\

[BD80]

Do we need a Jabari Parker conditioning vigil? ;-)

Do we "need" ANY of the vigils observed on this board?

The answer, of course, is a resounding YES!!!!

How else to placate peevish posters primed to postulate positional permutations? Paltry pulchritude?

[duketaylor]

I'm about vigiled out, thanks;)

[toooskies]

I'm about vigiled out, thanks;)

Lack of vigilance?

[ricks68]

Top five all-time freshman years at Duke? NS Duke Fan is too busy recovering from his Boxing Day celebration in Nova Scotia to respond.

Rivers: only 1st team All-ACC freshman in Duke history; JDawkins was 2nd team; JJ, Kyle and JWill were 3rd team.

Second highest scoring average for a freshman at Duke in the modern era: 15.5 vs. 18.1 for JD; Gminski was 15.3 (and 10.7 boards!); JJ was 15.0; JWill was 15.3; Elton was 13.4 with 7.3 boards in an injury-curtailed season; Kyle was 13.3 PPG; Grant was 11.2 on a NC team.

My top five in chronological order: Gminski, JDawkins, Grant Hill, JWill, and Austin.

sagegrouse
'And let me tell you, Heyman, Mullins and Verga had tremendous freshmen years -- but on the freshman team'

You left off Mike Lewis. He had an outstanding frosh year--------I think. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am old and getting ollllllllder very fast.:(

ricks

[sagegrouse]

You left off Mike Lewis. He had an outstanding frosh year--------I think. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am old and getting ollllllllder very fast.:(

ricks

You're certainly right, but I wasn't on campus when Mike was a freshman. Yet I do have a connection to Mike Lewis in that a friend, who married my roommate, was also from Mizzoula, MT and went to see Bubas about recruiting a high school star hidden in the Rockies.

Ah,... the benefits of a far-flung student body -- then and now.

sagegrouse

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

You left off Mike Lewis. He had an outstanding frosh year--------I think. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am old and getting ollllllllder very fast.:(

ricks

Mike Lewis played on a great freshmen team in 1964-65 season.

[-bdbd]

6PM espn2. We'll see if his conditioning has improved.

Coulda sworn I saw a graphic during the Wake game saying that it was on ESPNU. Whatever. If you don't see it on the "deuce," then try over at the "U."

:D

[Barr8]

Did anyone watch the game? If so, how did Jabari look? Thanks in advance.

[dukedoc]

Did anyone watch the game? If so, how did Jabari look? Thanks in advance.

I didn't see his last televised outing, but I thought he looked solid today. I believe he ended up with a double double and a few nice blocks. He has apparently lost on the order of 20 lbs since a couple weeks ago. This putback dunk was his best offering tonight: LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V3wEj59a6s&feature=youtu.be)

[BD80]

... He has apparently lost on the order of 20 lbs since a couple weeks ago. ...

Sounds like reports of his tremendous work ethic may be true

[coldriver10]

Jabari's Simeon HS basketball team plays Oak Hill Academy today at 2 pm on ESPNU for those interested.

[duketaylor]

Jabari on in 45 minutes if not already posted. ESPNU.

Thanks, cold, was searching to find the thread. GO JABARI!!!

[gumbomoop]

Jabari's Simeon HS basketball team plays Oak Hill Academy today at 2 pm on ESPNU for those interested.

Thanks for heads up. Hope to catch some of the game, to check out Nate Britt, UNC signee.

[plimnko]

Thanks for heads up. Hope to catch some of the game, to check out Nate Britt, UNC signee.

britt's out. knee surgery in december for a torn meniscus......according to one of the guys doing the game, dave telep i think.

[roywhite]

Jabari finsihed with 28 points on 12-19 shooting as Simeon beat perennial power Oak Hill.

His game reminds me most of Carmelo Anthony. One could see today what an excellent prospect Jabari is.

[gumbomoop]

Jabari finsihed with 28 points on 12-19 shooting as Simeon beat perennial power Oak Hill.

His game reminds me most of Carmelo Anthony. One could see today what an excellent prospect Jabari is.

Yes, now that Jabari is nearly 100%, we can see his excellent all-around game. A force, both ends. Steady game today, then boom, a block or a 3-bomb. Didn't dominate boards, but he might sometime. Mostly smooth, then boom.

[Class of '94]

Jabari finsihed with 28 points on 12-19 shooting as Simeon beat perennial power Oak Hill.

His game reminds me most of Carmelo Anthony. One could see today what an excellent prospect Jabari is.

Can anyone who's watched Andrew Wiggins (especially recently) compare him to Jabari and explain why Wiggins might be better now and/or in the future? I watched the game yesterday and thought Jabari looked really good; and I think he has tremendous potential and upside, especially when you consider that Jabari is still not at 100 percent. That said, the announcers were comparing the two; and basically thought Wiggins had the higher ceiling and that in you may want Jabari now but in 4 years you would want Wiggins. It seemed like the biggest reason for their conjecture was that they thought Wiggins had NBA athleticism now while Jabari has "good athleticism" but is not as explosive as Wiggins; and that Wiggins is beginning to develop a more all-around game and is improving his passing ability.

Since I haven't seen a lot of Wiggins, I am by no means saying I'm right about this; but imo Jabari is such a strong all around talent and that his strength is his versatility; and when you combine that with the fact that Jabari is a legit 6'8'' - 6'9'' player who potentially could play 4-5 positions in college (center would be under special circumstances when K may want to put JP, Alex, Amile and Rodney on the floor at the same time to go along with Quinn), I just can't imagine Wiggins bringing all of that to the table. Again, I can be wrong; but Jabari looked so smooth in the game yesterday and I'm really excited about Duke having him for at least one year.

[roywhite]

Can anyone who's watched Andrew Wiggins (especially recently) compare him to Jabari and explain why Wiggins might be better now and/or in the future? I watched the game yesterday and thought Jabari looked really good; and I think he has tremendous potential and upside, especially when you consider that Jabari is still not at 100 percent. That said, the announcers were comparing the two; and basically thought Wiggins had the higher ceiling and that in you may want Jabari now but in 4 years you would want Wiggins. It seemed like the biggest reason for their conjecture was that they thought Wiggins had NBA athleticism now while Jabari has "good athleticism" but is not as explosive as Wiggins; and that Wiggins is beginning to develop a more all-around game and is improving his passing ability.

Since I haven't seen a lot of Wiggins, I am by no means saying I'm right about this; but imo Jabari is such a strong all around talent and that his strength is his versatility; and when you combine that with the fact that Jabari is a legit 6'8'' - 6'9'' player who potentially could play 4-5 positions in college (center would be under special circumstances when K may want to put JP, Alex, Amile and Rodney on the floor at the same time to go along with Quinn), I just can't imagine Wiggins bringing all of that to the table. Again, I can be wrong; but Jabari looked so smooth in the game yesterday and I'm really excited about Duke having him for at least one year.

No expert, but I've watched parts of 2 recent games with Wiggins and Huntington Prep. Frankly, I prefer Jabari as a player now, and I think it's hard to project Wiggins' development. He is defnitely an elite athlete with length, speed, and explosiveness, but I don't see all of the basketball skills (shooting, passing, and court awareness) that I see with Parker.

Definitely intrigued to see how Coach K uses Parker; he's a versatile chess piece along the lines of Grant Hill, who is likely to affect games in a variety of ways. Gotta give Jabari credit for his recruiting decision; he talked about having more fun at other visits, but I think realizes K will push him to get into great shape, play hard, and develop his game.

[Kedsy]

(center would be under special circumstances when K may want to put JP, Alex, Amile and Rodney on the floor at the same time to go along with Quinn)

I don't know how much center Jabari might play, but I would argue that if he is defending the middle it'll be because K wants to play more of his plethora of wings. Maybe Alex would be the one he'd want to put in there, but it also could be Rasheed, Andre, Matt, Semi, or even Tyler, who team up with Jabari, Amile, Rodney, and Quinn. Against some teams, it might even be possible to throw out a lineup of Jabari, Rodney, two wings, and Quinn; or Jabari, Rodney, two wings, and Rasheed (which I guess could really be described as five wings).

My point is going small like that wouldn't necessarily be just a way to allow Alex and Amile to be on the court at the same time.

[jimsumner]

Can anyone who's watched Andrew Wiggins (especially recently) compare him to Jabari and explain why Wiggins might be better now and/or in the future? . . . That said, the announcers were comparing the two; and basically thought Wiggins had the higher ceiling and that in you may want Jabari now but in 4 years you would want Wiggins. .



Inasmuch as neither is likely to be in college very long, this seems like more of a dilemma for NBA GM's than college analysts.

And NBA GM's love athleticism. And Wiggins has it in spades. The rationale is that you can teach someone to dribble or shoot or pass a lot easier than you can teach them to jump out of the gym.

[Class of '94]

I don't know how much center Jabari might play, but I would argue that if he is defending the middle it'll be because K wants to play more of his plethora of wings. Maybe Alex would be the one he'd want to put in there, but it also could be Rasheed, Andre, Matt, Semi, or even Tyler, who team up with Jabari, Amile, Rodney, and Quinn. Against some teams, it might even be possible to throw out a lineup of Jabari, Rodney, two wings, and Quinn; or Jabari, Rodney, two wings, and Rasheed (which I guess could really be described as five wings).

My point is going small like that wouldn't necessarily be just a way to allow Alex and Amile to be on the court at the same time.

All good points Kedsy. My main point is that Jabari appears to have the versatility and skill to play 5 positions for K in certain circumstances; and gives K the flexibility to play multiple different lineups with him being in different positions if K chooses. From the limited knowledge of Wiggins, I don't believe he has the same versatility or skill set to do the same.

[Class of '94]

Inasmuch as neither is likely to be in college very long, this seems like more of a dilemma for NBA GM's than college analysts.

And NBA GM's love athleticism. And Wiggins has it in spades. The rationale is that you can teach someone to dribble or shoot or pass a lot easier than you can teach them to jump out of the gym.

Unfortunately, there have been many players to come into the NBA with great athleticism but limited skill sets; and have been busts because they never developed the skills to be a great player. I look at guy like Dwight Howard who came in with great athletic ability; but still is limited offensively in what he is capable of doing. That said, a guy like Tracy McGrady came in with off the charts athleticism and improved into a very capable and versatile basketball player at both ends of the court. I value size, length and versatility; and I believe Jabari has that in abundance. I'd love to see Wiggins go to Fla St (can't ever root for UNC to get anyone good like Wiggins) and see the two of them go at it and settle it on the court as to who is the better player (at least for next year).

[CDu]

Can anyone who's watched Andrew Wiggins (especially recently) compare him to Jabari and explain why Wiggins might be better now and/or in the future? I watched the game yesterday and thought Jabari looked really good; and I think he has tremendous potential and upside, especially when you consider that Jabari is still not at 100 percent. That said, the announcers were comparing the two; and basically thought Wiggins had the higher ceiling and that in you may want Jabari now but in 4 years you would want Wiggins. It seemed like the biggest reason for their conjecture was that they thought Wiggins had NBA athleticism now while Jabari has "good athleticism" but is not as explosive as Wiggins; and that Wiggins is beginning to develop a more all-around game and is improving his passing ability.

Since I haven't seen a lot of Wiggins, I am by no means saying I'm right about this; but imo Jabari is such a strong all around talent and that his strength is his versatility; and when you combine that with the fact that Jabari is a legit 6'8'' - 6'9'' player who potentially could play 4-5 positions in college (center would be under special circumstances when K may want to put JP, Alex, Amile and Rodney on the floor at the same time to go along with Quinn), I just can't imagine Wiggins bringing all of that to the table. Again, I can be wrong; but Jabari looked so smooth in the game yesterday and I'm really excited about Duke having him for at least one year.


All good points Kedsy. My main point is that Jabari appears to have the versatility and skill to play 5 positions for K in certain circumstances; and gives K the flexibility to play multiple different lineups with him being in different positions if K chooses. From the limited knowledge of Wiggins, I don't believe he has the same versatility or skill set to do the same.

I wouldn't say that Parker has the skill to play PG, and he certainly doesn't have the quickness or athleticism for that position (probably not SG material either). I'd say he has the skills to excel at SF and PF collegiately, and is probably capable (in a pinch with a big SF and PF) of playing some C or SG. I like the Carmelo Anthony comp - seems reasonable.

Conversely, Wiggins is a SF/SG who could (in a pinch) play PF. He also doesn't have a PG game and is definitely not a C. The reason that folks see Wiggins as the better long-term prospect is a combination of his athleticism and skill. Athletically, he's off the charts good. But that doesn't mean he isn't also quite skilled.


Unfortunately, there have been many players to come into the NBA with great athleticism but limited skill sets; and have been busts because they never developed the skills to be a great player. I look at guy like Dwight Howard who came in with great athletic ability; but still is limited offensively in what he is capable of doing. That said, a guy like Tracy McGrady came in with off the charts athleticism and improved into a very capable and versatile basketball player at both ends of the court. I value size, length and versatility; and I believe Jabari has that in abundance. I'd love to see Wiggins go to Fla St (can't ever root for UNC to get anyone good like Wiggins) and see the two of them go at it and settle it on the court as to who is the better player (at least for next year).

Firstly, I wouldn't use Dwight Howard as a negative example. He's been a 1st Team All-NBA for 5 years running before injuries derailed him this season. And he hasn't had a PER rating below 20 since his 2nd season in the league.

And further, it isn't like Wiggins is unskilled. He's very skilled. He's just also REALLY athletic. And in terms of length and versatility, he is 6'7" and can handle the ball and shoot, so I'd say he's not lacking in the versatility department either.

That being said, I wouldn't worry too much about Parker vs Wiggins rankings. Both are expected to be exceptionally good players for the 1 year that they are likely to be in college. We got a really good one in Parker, and somebody is going to get a really good one in Wiggins.

[COYS]

Jabari finsihed with 28 points on 12-19 shooting as Simeon beat perennial power Oak Hill.

His game reminds me most of Carmelo Anthony. One could see today what an excellent prospect Jabari is.

I watched the game on replay last night and was also impressed with Jabari's offensive arsenal. I see the Melo comparisons. Melo is obviously a very good athlete, but he's not in the Lebron/Westbrook category of uber-athletes. Rather, Melo has solid athleticism but uses quick, smart decisions plus a good jump shot to get his points when he can't get all the way to the rim. Jabari is similar in that he's a good but not incredible athlete, but his skills are off the charts. He's got quick moves in the post and has the strength to finish. I was blown away at how good his fall-away jumper is. This is a shot that, for most people, is a low percentage, last resort kind of shot. For Jabari, it's one of his prime counter moves if he can't get to the rim on his initial move within 6-12 feet from the basket. The jumper is soft, accurate, and basically unguardable. While Grant Hill is a decent comparison in terms of versatility, Jabari's jumper is miles ahead of Grant's jumper at the same stage in their development. Grant was faster in the open court and, obviously, had phenomenal leaping ability and quickness, but in terms of shooting the ball, Jabari is far ahead.

Jabari also has a quick release on the perimeter and was absolutely deadly spotting up for threes. He's a solid ball handler and passer. I still feel that he's still not quite 100%, although he's close. He looked just a bit winded at times and on one dunk (the first one he had), it seemed he surprised himself by jumping just a little lower than he expected himself to jump. The next time he got an opportunity for a slam, he made what looked like a concentrated effort to get up higher and power it down. I would imagine we'll see more of that next year and even later this year after he's had a chance to completely reclaim his confidence.

The other thing I was surprised about is how big Jabari is. He's supposedly lost 20 pounds since he came back from his injury, but that still leaves him as a decently beefy dude, especially with his mobility and ball handling ability. The Duke staff will probably turn some of that weight into extra muscle, which will just make him more deadly. Simeon had him play on the interior at least as often as he played on the perimeter. He also often guarding the opposing team's biggest or second biggest player. I think the idea that Jabari might play a lot of 4 next season to be likely, to be honest. He's got good size, already. With an offseason of strength and conditioning, he would probably be totally capable of guarding virtually all college PFs.

[AncientPsychicT]

Jabari is a legit 6'8'' - 6'9'' player who potentially could play 4-5 positions in college (center would be under special circumstances when K may want to put JP, Alex, Amile and Rodney on the floor at the same time to go along with Quinn)


I don't know how much center Jabari might play, but I would argue that if he is defending the middle it'll be because K wants to play more of his plethora of wings. Maybe Alex would be the one he'd want to put in there, but it also could be Rasheed, Andre, Matt, Semi, or even Tyler, who team up with Jabari, Amile, Rodney, and Quinn. Against some teams, it might even be possible to throw out a lineup of Jabari, Rodney, two wings, and Quinn; or Jabari, Rodney, two wings, and Rasheed (which I guess could really be described as five wings).

Better yet, we could start a lineup of:

6'8" Rodney Hood
6'8" Jabari Parker
6'8" Semi Ojeleye
6'8" Alex Murphy
6'8" Amile Jefferson

with 6'8" Josh Hairston coming off the bench. It's the all-6'8" team! If you're not 6'8", you don't play!

:cool: :D

[Dev11]

Better yet, we could start a lineup of:

6'8" Rodney Hood
6'8" Jabari Parker
6'8" Semi Ojeleye
6'8" Alex Murphy
6'8" Amile Jefferson

with 6'8" Josh Hairston coming off the bench. It's the all-6'8" team! If you're not 6'8", you don't play!

:cool: :D

Coach K: "Get me a team full of Grant Hills!"
Wojo, Collins, Dr Badass: "Got it, boss."