MBB: Duke v. Cornell Pregame and In-Game Thread

[watzone]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/12/preview-duke-vs-cornell/ Here is a game day preview for tomorrows Duke vs Cornell match up. Back to back games is an unusual thing at Duke with non tournament games (Elon the next night). Anybody know the last time that happened in Duke BB history? Anyhow, these games give fans a chance to see Duke in CIS with most of the students being gone. I fully expect Duke to be 11-0 come Friday.

[roywhite]

Watched some of the Cornell vs Vanderbillt game last night. Cornell was competitive for the most part, rallying after falling behind by a big margin in the first half. It was apparently the first game for Cornell since Dec. 1, due to their exam break. Can't see them giving the Blue Devils too much of a scare.

Here's the ESPN write-up on the game with Vanderbilt.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323520238

I'm thinking we see MP3 in action in these next 2 games?

[CDu]

Watched some of the Cornell vs Vanderbillt game last night. Cornell was competitive for the most part, rallying after falling behind by a big margin in the first half. It was apparently the first game for Cornell since Dec. 1, due to their exam break. Can't see them giving the Blue Devils too much of a scare.

Here's the ESPN write-up on the game with Vanderbilt.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323520238

I'm thinking we see MP3 in action in these next 2 games?

Considering he dressed and took warmups for the last game, I'll be surprised if he doesn't play in at least one of the next two games. How much he plays remains to be seen, of course.

[supbros]

Since the next 3 games aren't losable, I'm kinda hoping that K gives Seth the rest of the month off. If I had to guess I'd say that he plays 1 of the games this week and gets the other off.

[BlueDevil16]

Since the next 3 games aren't losable, I'm kinda hoping that K gives Seth the rest of the month off. If I had to guess I'd say that he plays 1 of the games this week and gets the other off.

Pretty sure we said Lehigh was unlosable too

[DukieInBrasil]

Since the next 3 games aren't losable, I'm kinda hoping that K gives Seth the rest of the month off. If I had to guess I'd say that he plays 1 of the games this week and gets the other off.

Every game is losable. Did you learn nothing from the Lehigh game last year? Playing Seth in only one of the 2 back-to-back games seems reasonable, and it seems like a decent plan to just sit Seth until January and let his leg heal as best it can in that time. I like what i've seen from Rasheed so far and TT has shown himself to be a very capable guard, so sitting Seth for health reasons should be something this team can handle and could yield real benefits down the road, but absolutely, positively NOT because these games are un-losable.
I sure hope that the boys play well enough for K to feel comfortable letting Murph'n'Mile get some solid run. I'm also hopeful that the talk of Marshall's foot being ready to go are true as well so that he can get some decent reps out there. We've been playing well so far and don't seem to have looked past any team that we've played, and i certainly hope the team doesn't think these are un-losable games. You don't become a champion by neglecting to take care of the business at hand.

[moonpie23]

Since the next 3 games aren't losable, I'm kinda hoping that K gives Seth the rest of the month off. If I had to guess I'd say that he plays 1 of the games this week and gets the other off.

WHY???? would you MOCK the basketball godz?


sheeesh.....

[cptnflash]

Pretty sure we said Lehigh was unlosable too

Anyone who said Lehigh was un-losable wasn't paying attention last year (to us or to them).

[supbros]

Pretty sure we said Lehigh was unlosable too

We were like 10.5 point faves vs Lehigh, it was 100% losable. Not my problem if people on this board failed to recognize and realize.

[supbros]

WHY???? would you MOCK the basketball godz?


sheeesh.....

because i'm a basketball atheist and i can mock em all i want and we still won't lose any of the next 3 games

and because i wanted to make the simple point that it's a good stretch to get 4 straight weeks of rest for seth

[rsvman]

The basketball godz don't care that you don't believe in them.



And by the way, you don't come on this board and announce that any game is not losable.

[sagegrouse]

because i'm a basketball atheist and i can mock em all i want and we still won't lose any of the next 3 games

and because i wanted to make the simple point that it's a good stretch to get 4 straight weeks of rest for seth

FWIW, Supbros, I don't think you are a member of this "community." You may want to think about your comments and your attitude. Honest disagreements are OK; taunting behavior, IMHO, even if not addressed at someone in particular, is not.

sagegrouse
'Would normally have PMed, but this is systematic'

[David Bunkley]

because i'm a basketball atheist and i can mock em all i want and we still won't lose any of the next 3 games

and because i wanted to make the simple point that it's a good stretch to get 4 straight weeks of rest for seth

And if it's good enough for K, it's good enough for me.

[flyingdutchdevil]

And if it's good enough for K, it's good enough for me.

Actually, considering Coach K's strict Catholic upbringing, he believes in one God. That God is, I'm sure, also his Basketball God.

[OldPhiKap]

Back to the original point of supbros' post, these are games in which one might reasonably expect to see MP3 get some work time in. That is no guarantee, of course, and we may have our starters in for the whole game in order to fight off some large upsets. Then again, if our starters are playing and we're tied or down at the half, well -- we may see the Patrick Davidson bench rotation anyway.

I think supbros' point is valid, even if stated a bit strongly for these parts.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

because i'm a basketball atheist and i can mock em all i want and we still won't lose any of the next 3 games

and because i wanted to make the simple point that it's a good stretch to get 4 straight weeks of rest for seth


We've played 1 game in an almost 3 week span, I think Seth will be just fine playing some minutes 2 nights in a row.

I had a question that is somewhat related, somewhat unrelated. Does anyone know why we only have 1 walk-on in Zafirovski? I would think that we would have a PG/SG walk-on available to us in mop up games like these. It seems like UNC and some teams have like 5 walk ons sitting on the bench.

[BD80]

Coach K believes in the basketball gods ...

Coach K IS a basketball god.

and self-aware.

[Newton_14]

We've played 1 game in an almost 3 week span, I think Seth will be just fine playing some minutes 2 nights in a row.

I had a question that is somewhat related, somewhat unrelated. Does anyone know why we only have 1 walk-on in Zafirovski? I would think that we would have a PG/SG walk-on available to us in mop up games like these. It seems like UNC and some teams have like 5 walk ons sitting on the bench.

Very valid question. Perhaps Mr Sumner could enlighten us, but it does seem odd to only have one walk-on. K has never carried the 6 to 8 walkons like Ol Roy does, but he has historically carried more than one at a time unless my memory is going bad on me.

[tommy]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/12/preview-duke-vs-cornell/ Here is a game day preview for tomorrows Duke vs Cornell match up. Back to back games is an unusual thing at Duke with non tournament games (Elon the next night). Anybody know the last time that happened in Duke BB history?

It's been 17 years since we played back-to-backers and neither game was part of a tournament. In 1995 we played back-to-back home games in December against Delaware and Western Carolina.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Very valid question. Perhaps Mr Sumner could enlighten us, but it does seem odd to only have one walk-on. K has never carried the 6 to 8 walkons like Ol Roy does, but he has historically carried more than one at a time unless my memory is going bad on me.


Yeah, I do remember us always having at least a few. I remember the good ole days with Ryan and Justin Caldbeck, JD Simpson, and Andy Borman. :)

[roywhite]

It's been 17 years since we played back-to-backers and neither game was part of a tournament. In 1995 we played back-to-back home games in December against Delaware and Western Carolina.

A little further back, there were back-to-back games in our first title year 1990-91:

In February of 1991,
101-81 over Maryland
88-70 over LSU the next day
Here's the box for that LSU game, which included a few familiar names

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19910210

Cameron rocked!

[OldPhiKap]

A little further back, there were back-to-back games in our first title year 1990-91:

In February of 1991,
101-81 over Maryland
88-70 over LSU the next day
Here's the box for that LSU game, which included a few familiar names

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19910210

Cameron rocked!

"Shaq can't slam! Shaq can't slam!!"

[mgtr]

There have been discussions about our defense this year vs. last. I just looked at the scores of our nine games so far this year, and the highest score an opponent has had is 71 (twice). That sounds like effective defense to me.

[uh_no]

There have been discussions about our defense this year vs. last. I just looked at the scores of our nine games so far this year, and the highest score an opponent has had is 71 (twice). That sounds like effective defense to me.

Sheer point totals, without any sort of normalization for opponent and number of possession are utterly useless.

Duke's defense is pretty good, and much better than last years, but point totals are like win totals for a pitcher....useless without context.

[OZ]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/12/preview-duke-vs-cornell/ Back to back games is an unusual thing at Duke with non tournament games (Elon the next night). Anybody know the last time that happened in Duke BB history?


Coach K used to play these back-to-back games to prepare his team for the NCAAs that were back-to-back. If my old brain is not remembering something that never happened, one that comes to mind was a great weekend in 1986 where we squeaked by State (away) and the next afternoon, we beat Notre Dame (at Cameron) by one point. I think that was J Dawkins famous block that Digger still insists was a foul.

[OldPhiKap]

Coach K used to play these back-to-back games to prepare his team for the NCAAs that were back-to-back. If my old brain is not remembering something that never happened, one that comes to mind was a great weekend in 1986 where we squeaked by State (away) and the next afternoon, we beat Notre Dame (at Cameron) by one point. I think that was J Dawkins famous block that Digger still insists was a foul.

David Rivers who?

[greybeard]

There is a Duke/Cornell connection that goes way back. I am sure it has nothing to do with the three games, including tomorrows, that K has scheduled. Nope, that's for you guys to figure out, if any of you care to, which I can't imagine. It is a somewhat interesting connection, but less so now than it might have been. Puzzles are great. Man, are we going to get squashed. Just thinking of it conjures images of the next to last scene in Men In Black, you know the one, when Will Smith squishes, nope, that is far as I'm taking it.

The problem with Cornell's game from what little I watched is the 3; nobody can shoot them. The number of 3-ball shooters among the schools that have big programs makes me think incorrectly that everybody who plays these days can score them regularly. While it might be true that the upper end of the college game is lower than when at least some of the now one-and-doners stayed around, I think that the lower end of the spectrum is much, much, much higher than we, well at least I, appreciate. The kids playing serious division one basketball can play. Cornell, because of a lack of even one 3-shooter, cannot compete on that level. I really liked Cornell's inside passing game and ability to finish the old fashioned way at the rim, you know, shooting the ball. If they show that tomorrow, I'll consider it a win.

[Olympic Fan]

I would hope that K and his players ould have respect for any opponent.

I would hope fans would have a realistic appraisal of our competition.

I don't know if the Cornell game is unloseable, but I do know that by almost any measure, Cornell is the weakest opponent Duke plays this season. To compare Cornell (240 in the Pomeroy ratings; 251 in RPI) with last year's Lehigh team (82 in Pomeroy; 88 in RPI) is ridiculous.

Realistically, Duke is going to beat Cornell, Elon and Santa Clara right after Christmas. I hope K uses the three games to rest Seth to some degree (not entirely, but fairly limited minutes) and to give Marshall Plumlee, Alex Murphy and Amile Jefferson long looks to figure out how much he can count on them when the games get tougher.

Now, Davidson (No. 69 in Pomeroy) on a neutral court in Charlotte is a different kind of game. While it's a game Duke should win, it's definitely loseable. When that one comes up, we can sweat it.

[OldPhiKap]

I would hope that K and his players ould have respect for any opponent.

I would hope fans would have a realistic appraisal of our competition.

I don't know if the Cornell game is unloseable, but I do know that by almost any measure, Cornell is the weakest opponent Duke plays this season. To compare Cornell (240 in the Pomeroy ratings; 251 in RPI) with last year's Lehigh team (82 in Pomeroy; 88 in RPI) is ridiculous.

Realistically, Duke is going to beat Cornell, Elon and Santa Clara right after Christmas. I hope K uses the three games to rest Seth to some degree (not entirely, but fairly limited minutes) and to give Marshall Plumlee, Alex Murphy and Amile Jefferson long looks to figure out how much he can count on them when the games get tougher.

Now, Davidson (No. 69 in Pomeroy) on a neutral court in Charlotte is a different kind of game. While it's a game Duke should win, it's definitely loseable. When that one comes up, we can sweat it.

From the player interviews yesterday, it sounds like the team is preparing for Cornell and looking forward to getting out on the floor with someone other than themselves in practice. Ryan and Mason sound very focused, and even Rasheed sounded like an upperclassman in his remarks.

I do not expect a letdown in these games, they all indicated that the extra practice time helped them work on rebounding and sharper offensive execution. FWIW.

[DukieInBrasil]

What are Cornell's chances of finishing strong in the Ivy League? I know Tommy's Harvard squad has been the league leader for a few years now (even if they didn't win the league outright every time) and that the Ivy League usually only gets the tournament winner in the Dance. As such, Cornell's chances of getting in the Dance rely entirely on their ability to win their conference tourney, which could always happen in a win-or-go-home set up. I just like knowing that Duke schedules potential Tourney opponents during the OOC schedule. What about Elon?
Seems like we've played a lot of potential Tourney opponents so far: UK, UL, VCU, Minnesota, OSU, Temple. Any of the others have realistic Tourney chances? We haven't played em yet, but Davidson always seems to be a potential tourney team out of the Southern Conference.

[NSDukeFan]

What are Cornell's chances of finishing strong in the Ivy League? I know Tommy's Harvard squad has been the league leader for a few years now (even if they didn't win the league outright every time) and that the Ivy League usually only gets the tournament winner in the Dance. As such, Cornell's chances of getting in the Dance rely entirely on their ability to win their conference tourney, which could always happen in a win-or-go-home set up. I just like knowing that Duke schedules potential Tourney opponents during the OOC schedule. What about Elon?
Seems like we've played a lot of potential Tourney opponents so far: UK, UL, VCU, Minnesota, OSU, Temple. Any of the others have realistic Tourney chances? We haven't played em yet, but Davidson always seems to be a potential tourney team out of the Southern Conference.

I believe the Ivy league sends their regular season champion to the Dance and does not have a tournament.

[DukieInBrasil]

I believe the Ivy league sends their regular season champion to the Dance and does not have a tournament.

ok, good to know. So what are Cornell's chances of winning the Ivy League?
Would we as Duke fans rather have Tommy's Harvard squad win or have Cornell win so that we can say we played another Tourney team?

[Dev11]

I believe the Ivy league sends their regular season champion to the Dance and does not have a tournament.

In fact, it is the only conference which does so. This absolutely hurts their ability to get multiple teams into the tournament.

[COYS]

ok, good to know. So what are Cornell's chances of winning the Ivy League?
Would we as Duke fans rather have Tommy's Harvard squad win or have Cornell win so that we can say we played another Tourney team?

Neither. As a Princeton and Duke fan, I'd rather have Tommy get hired to replace Howland at UCLA and Princeton win every year :).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

ok, good to know. So what are Cornell's chances of winning the Ivy League?
Would we as Duke fans rather have Tommy's Harvard squad win or have Cornell win so that we can say we played another Tourney team?

I can't speak for all Duke fans, but I personally would much prefer to see Amaker's team in the tournament than Cornell. At the risk of sounding like some of the other more confident posters on this board, I like to think that our inclusion in the tournament will be a no-brainer, and that our seeding will be the result of how many games we have won and lost rather than the specifics of teams played in late December. Besides, our SOS is riding high at the moment and should not be a concern come March.

I always root for Amaker, though I don't have many opportunities to watch his teams. Makes me thankful to be a fan of a program that you can almost always catch on television.

If we take care of business, win the games we are supposed to win, and don't take any games as a given, we should not be stressing out come selection Sunday.

Go Duke!

[pfrduke]

ok, good to know. So what are Cornell's chances of winning the Ivy League?
Would we as Duke fans rather have Tommy's Harvard squad win or have Cornell win so that we can say we played another Tourney team?

To your direct question, Cornell is likely to be a middle of the pack Ivy League team. Harvard, Princeton, and (surprisingly, since it's not common for this to be the case) Columbia are the most likely to win the league, probably in that order.

[Kedsy]

I just like knowing that Duke schedules potential Tourney opponents during the OOC schedule. What about Elon?
Seems like we've played a lot of potential Tourney opponents so far: UK, UL, VCU, Minnesota, OSU, Temple. Any of the others have realistic Tourney chances? We haven't played em yet, but Davidson always seems to be a potential tourney team out of the Southern Conference.

Here are the Pomeroy national and conference rank of each of our non-conference opponents:



Team Nat rank Conf rank
---- -------- ---------
Georgia St 214 4
Kentucky 13 2
Fla Gulf Coast 104 1
VCU 10 1
Minnesota 11 4
Louisville 3 1
Ohio State 8 2
Delaware 146 3
Temple 66 5
Cornell 244 4
Elon 170 4
Santa Clara 100 4
Davidson 68 1


So, other than the teams you mention, it would seem Florida Gulf Coast and Davidson have reasonably good chances of making the NCAAT, adding up to eight potential tournament teams. The other five non-conference teams on our schedule would appear to be long shots (Cornell being the longest shot; also note that Elon and Davidson are in the same one-and-done conference, so even if Elon makes it that means Davidson won't).

[mayrer]

Watched some of the Cornell vs Vanderbillt game last night. Cornell was competitive for the most part, rallying after falling behind by a big margin in the first half. It was apparently the first game for Cornell since Dec. 1, due to their exam break. Can't see them giving the Blue Devils too much of a scare.

Here's the ESPN write-up on the game with Vanderbilt.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323520238

I'm thinking we see MP3 in action in these next 2 games?

I'm not sure why playing a competitive game against Vanderbilt means anything this year. Vandy is a team that scored all of 30 (that's 3-0) points against Marist - full game, not a half. So it's a good chance for the team to break a sweat and to work on things.

[mayrer]

There is a Duke/Cornell connection that goes way back. I am sure it has nothing to do with the three games, including tomorrows, that K has scheduled. Nope, that's for you guys to figure out, if any of you care to, which I can't imagine. It is a somewhat interesting connection, but less so now than it might have been. Puzzles are great. Man, are we going to get squashed. Just thinking of it conjures images of the next to last scene in Men In Black, you know the one, when Will Smith squishes, nope, that is far as I'm taking it.

The problem with Cornell's game from what little I watched is the 3; nobody can shoot them. The number of 3-ball shooters among the schools that have big programs makes me think incorrectly that everybody who plays these days can score them regularly. While it might be true that the upper end of the college game is lower than when at least some of the now one-and-doners stayed around, I think that the lower end of the spectrum is much, much, much higher than we, well at least I, appreciate. The kids playing serious division one basketball can play. Cornell, because of a lack of even one 3-shooter, cannot compete on that level. I really liked Cornell's inside passing game and ability to finish the old fashioned way at the rim, you know, shooting the ball. If they show that tomorrow, I'll consider it a win.

They'll have lots of problems with quickness too.

[Neals384]

The DBR Article on this game calls Cornell a tall team:

"They’re bigger than the average team you might see at Christmas, with one 6-11 guy, four at 6-9, and four guys between 6-7 and 6-8."

But that's misleading. 6-11 Frosh Braxston Bunce has not played.

[greybeard]

To your direct question, Cornell is likely to be a middle of the pack Ivy League team. Harvard, Princeton, and (surprisingly, since it's not common for this to be the case) Columbia are the most likely to win the league, probably in that order.

I think Amaker lost his best player due to some kind of academic no-no. I don't follow Cornell sports except when they make some real noise. That has meant LAX in the main, so I couldn't speak to the teams in the league. Going into the season, big things were projected for Harvard. Columbia, in 1967-68, had three future pros, including Jim McMillen who had a quite successful pro career. I seem to recall that Columbia came in no better than third that year, to Petrie's Princeton and a Penn Team that had some stud sophomores who eventually took Penn to the final four. Cornell might have come in third. Long time ago, and third or fourth, who cared.

Both Columbia and Cornell were badly hurt in basketball once the anti war and black power movements converged. In football, Cornell managed to land Ed Marinaro who I believed for a while held the NCAA yardage record, had some more than decent years in the NFL, and ended up with a significant role in Hill Street Blues, which was some really good programing.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Cornell, starters are posted for both teams...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14509

[moonpie23]

Let's rock!!!

[ChrisP]

I don't want to go all "X's and O's" on my fellow posters here but..I'm thinking we should probably guard Shonn Miller. Who's with me? :cool:

[ChrisP]

MP3 is so good - he gotta wear TWO wristbands!!!

[BD80]

OK, who started all the confusion about which basket is Duke's, which led to claims that they BOTH are?

MP2 is scoring on BOTH baskets!

He can't be stopped!

[BigZ]

Does Marshall have a black eye?

[ChrisP]

Yeah, announcers said he took a finger in the eye in practice. I like his quote, "Pretty boys don't get shiners"

[ChrisP]

Man, I'm hearing crickets in here tonight! Never seen an in-game thread so quiet. Did everyone but me go to the game???

[turnandburn55]

Quinn Cook with 11 assists... is it too early to start the "Bobby Hurley single game assists record" vigil?

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Does Marshall have a black eye?


Umm, this isn't why we havent seen him back in the game is it? Kind of odd he played a min, had a block and we haven't seen him back yet.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Man, I'm hearing crickets in here tonight! Never seen an in-game thread so quiet. Did everyone but me go to the game???


Yeah this is nuts! I'd love to be there but I'm enjoying watching it on TV. :)

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Currently on a 44-4 run. Murph just nails a 3 in the corner!

[trinity79]

Currently on a 44-4 run. Murph just nails a 3 in the corner!

"that's an execution."

[ChrisP]

Umm, this isn't why we havent seen him back in the game is it? Kind of odd he played a min, had a block and we haven't seen him back yet.

I don't think so - I mean, he had the shiner before the game, so it doesn't really make sense to me. I thought he played well while in there so I don't think K was upset with him for any reason. So...now I'm worried that something is up with his foot :(

I hope we see him again before this one's over. I understand wanting to bring him along slowly but certainly expected more than 1-2 minutes from him tonight.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I don't think so - I mean, he had the shiner before the game, so it doesn't really make sense to me. I thought he played well while in there so I don't think K was upset with him for any reason. So...now I'm worried that something is up with his foot :(

I hope we see him again before this one's over. I understand wanting to bring him along slowly but certainly expected more than 1-2 minutes from him tonight.


That's what I was thinking like it stiffed up on him. Hope its just a precautionary thing.