This Week in the ACC - 12/17-12/23

[pfrduke]

Despite appearances, this series is not a digest of the Hokies' season, they just keep doing things that merit mention, positive or negative. A home loss to Georgia Southern definitely falls on the side of negative. It was the second-biggest upset (http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/weekend_in_review_the_head_to_head_fallacy_strikes _again) of the weekend and much of the game was not close. Virginia Tech got torched from outside by the Eagles, who hit 11 threes on the way to 78 points. It was Georgia Southern's highest scoring performance against a D-I opponent and only second D-I win on the season. When Virginia Tech finds itself on the bubble (again) this spring, this one will be in the bad loss column in bold face, italicized, and underlined three times.

Miami scored a positive result for the conference by knocking off previously unbeaten Charlotte. Also, UNC gave up 61 points in a half and still won.

This week is a little busier than last week with 22 games in all, including 9 on Saturday (for those of you who have already finished holiday shopping).

Monday features what should be two non-competitive games. Louisiana-Monroe and Alabama State are two of the 15 worst teams in college basketball. Monroe has probably the worst high-volume offensive player in the country in Jayon James, who shoots 35% from 2, 23% from 3, 36% from the line, and turns it over on a full 30% of his possessions - he accounts for a quarter of the team's offense and has an offensive rating of 63 (i.e., he produces 63 points per 100 possessions used - as a point of comparison, Mason Plumlee is at 119.5). Florida State's defense may be worse this year, but even they should be able to stop Monroe. Atlanta is hosting the insect classic as the Yellow Jackets take on the Hornets - to get punny, one of those teams has a lot more sting than the other.

[89]Georgia Tech hosts [333]Alabama State
[70]Florida State hosts [341]Louisiana-Monroe

Tuesday features a couple good non-conference games, including one of the few remaining matchups against a BCS opponent. Stanford is taking a winter road trip through North Carolina, stopping in Raleigh to take on the Wolfpack. NC State has played much better since the Asheville game (even including the loss to Michigan) and looks to pick up a home win against a relatively tough opponent. Miami takes to the road to face Central Florida. Although the last in-state road trip resulted in a loss to Gulf Coast, the Canes have been playing much better with the return of Durand Scott and hope to continue to rack up wins against quality mid-major opponents.

[211]Wake Forest hosts [317]Furman
[30]Miami at [90]Central Florida
[29]NC State hosts [40]Stanford

Wednesday puts the #1 team in the country (at least, soon to be named #1) back on court for the first time in a week and a half as the Devils take on Cornell. Also in action are the Heels, who are off to Texas to take on a Longhorns squad that has struggled mightily on offense. Defense has been another story, however, as the Horns are the toughest team to make baskets against in the country - they've held every opponent but one under a point per possession (of course, that one opponent is Chaminade).

[4]Duke hosts [237]Cornell
[31]Virginia hosts [241]Morgan State
[63]Clemson at [246]Coastal Carolina
[21]North Carolina at [50]Texas

Thursday puts the #1 team in the country (at least, soon to be named #1) back on court for the first time in a day as the Devils take on Elon in the second half of a pre-holiday back-to-back.

[4]Duke hosts [165]Elon

Friday has Maryland's toughest remaining non-conference game against the favorites in the America East (who have already lost a home game to Sacred Heart, so take that for what it's worth).

[55]Maryland hosts [105]Stony Brook

Saturday has a 9-game slate, including the ACC's two remaining pre-conference tournaments. Virginia Tech is in Las Vegas for the Continental Tire Classic. The Hokies can be the ACC's second team (behind the Seminoles) to win a preseason tournament while losing a game in that tournament thanks to early "rounds" that only kinda sorta count. They get Bradley in the semis with a date with Colorado State or Portland if they win - this is a very winnable tournament for Tech. Miami heads way west to Hawaii for the Diamond Head Classic, which this year has one of the better fields of all the preseason tourneys - probably second only to Atlantis. Arizona, San Diego State, and Mississippi are among the teams joining Miami for a little Mele Kalikimaka. Miami has a tough path to the finals since it's on Arizona's side of the bracket, but there will be plenty of opportunity for the Canes to pick up a quality win even if they don't make the finals. First, though, they need to get by Hawaii and into the winner's half of the bracket. Other notable matchups include a Big East opponent for BC (which needed overtime to beat New Hampshire at home, so I'm not holding out that much hope against Providence), a trip to Charlotte for the Seminoles, and a game for NC State against what could be a tough St. Bonaventure team.

[21]UNC hosts [236]McNeese State
[187]Boston College hosts [71]Providence
[70]Florida State at [98]Charlotte
[211]Wake Forest at [222]UNC-Greensboro
[29]NC State hosts [83]St. Bonaventure
[89]Georgia Tech hosts [324]Citadel
[31]Virginia at [226]Old Dominion
[76]Virginia Tech vs. [153]Bradley in Las Vegas
[30]Miami vs. [216]Hawaii in Honolulu

Sunday has final round action in Vegas, second-round action in Hawaii, and another South Carolina opponent for Clemson.

[63]Clemson hosts [337]South Carolina State
[76]Virginia Tech vs. [74]Colorado State/[233]Portland in Las Vegas
[30]Miami vs. [13]Arizona/[259]East Tennessee State in Honolulu

ACC Non-Conference Record: 81-29
ACC vs. BCS Opponents: 17-15
America East: 2-0
Atlantic 10: 7-3
Atlantic Sun: 7-2
Big XII: 1-3
Big East: 2-2
Big South: 7-0
Big Ten: 8-6
Big West: 1-0
Colonial: 5-2
CUSA: 5-0
Horizon: 3-0
Ivy: 0-1
MAAC: 2-1
MAC: 2-0
MEAC: 4-0
NEC: 3-1
OVC: 1-0
Pac-12: 0-2
Patriot: 1-0
SEC: 6-2
Southern: 4-2
Southland: 1-0
Sun Belt: 3-1
SWAC: 2-0
West Coast: 2-1
WAC: 1-0
Non D-I: 1-0

[OldPhiKap]

Not sure where to put this, but Clemson is getting absolutely pasted by Coastal Carolina. Down close to 30. May not be the year they win in Chapel Hill.

[ChrisP]

As we all learned in the wake of the Lacrosse scandal, it's important to remember the concept of "innocent until proven guilty". That being said...isn't it widely acknowledged that Jennings admitted to smoking weed and disabling the smoke detector in his apartment? And wasn't he already on supposedly very thin ice with Coach Brownell? How in the world is this guy still on the Clemson team? I mean, other than the fact that it's Clemson?

Btw, the Tigers just got EMBARRASSED at Coastal Carolina. About to lose by 20+! Ouch!!!

[uh_no]

Not sure where to put this, but Clemson is getting absolutely pasted by Coastal Carolina. Down close to 30. May not be the year they win in Chapel Hill.

and UNC is getting beat early by texas....19-8

[Newton_14]

and UNC is getting beat early by texas....19-8

Watching these two teams attempt to play the game of basketball is D I F F I C U L T. Seriously. And where is Wheat to tell us how UNC is a much better team than Duke and how their post players are so much better than Duke's?

Edit: Bullock just had the FLOP OF THE YEAR! Seriously. The guy went right around him, with zero contact and he took the nice "air" charge. :)

[4Gen]

I just wish the announcer could pronounce Bullock's name. It's Reggie boo LOCK.

[Channing]

Texas is blasting unc in one of the ugliest games I have ever seen. This is the same Texas that lost to Chaminsde! It seems like unc has more possessions end in turnovers than in shots.

[TruBlu]

Watching these two teams attempt to play the game of basketball is D I F F I C U L T. Seriously. And where is Wheat to tell us how UNC is a much better team than Duke and how their post players are so much better than Duke's?

Edit: Bullock just had the FLOP OF THE YEAR! Seriously. The guy went right around him, with zero contact and he took the nice "air" charge. :)

Could someone please get a clip of that FLOP OF THE CENTURY, and post it on here . . . make it a sticky! Then dare any UNC Troll to ever mention flopping again.

(The flop occurred at about the 8:00 mark in the first half.)

[juise]

The only time I've seen Texas play was against Georgetown and their offense was embarassing. I know Georgetown's D is good and that UNC plays at a faster tempo, but the Heels have already given up more points than the Hoyas did in the entire game. Roy's got some serious work to do.

[roywhite]

Coastal Carolina 69 -- Clemson 46 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323540324)

Yikes. I hope Klemnop was out Christmas shopping or otherwise occupied.

[FerryFor50]

Jimmy Dykes just called Reggie Bullock the "best shooter in the ACC."

What little credibility he had just left the room.

[OldPhiKap]

Meanwhile, Rick Barnes still showing why he could not cut it as an ACC coach. Letting the heels back in the game.

[Newton_14]

Jimmy Dykes just called Reggie Bullock the "best shooter in the ACC."

What little credibility he had just left the room.

He also said that McAdoo is one of the top low post players in the country. Can we just drop that mantra? I thought the Powell kid at Stanford looked like a better player last night than McAdoo. He is just overrated. Not his fault, but he is nowhere near as good as he is hyped to be.

I guess it sounds nice if you keep saying it over and over though.

[westwall]

-- and UNC is still trailing in the second half, 11:30 to go. What does that say about Carolina??

[Kdogg]

Coastal Carolina 69 -- Clemson 46 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323540324)

Yikes. I hope Klemnop was out Christmas shopping or otherwise occupied.

Cliff's new team taking his old team to the woodshed.

[FerryFor50]

He also said that McAdoo is one of the top low post players in the country. Can we just drop that mantra? I thought the Powell kid at Stanford looked like a better player last night than McAdoo. He is just overrated. Not his fault, but he is nowhere near as good as he is hyped to be.

I guess it sounds nice if you keep saying it over and over though.

Dykes doesn't realize that McAdoo is just an athletic jump shooter, not a low post player.

Good role player, but not a #1 guy.

[roywhite]

Dykes doesn't realize that McAdoo is just an athletic jump shooter, not a low post player.

Good role player, but not a #1 guy.

Kind of a poor man's Black Falcon?

[FerryFor50]

Kind of a poor man's Black Falcon?

More of a rich man's David Wear.

[OldPhiKap]

Rick Barnes will find anyway to lose this. Gonna leave while the heels are down by ten with 4 minutes.

[westwall]

Rick Barnes will find anyway to lose this. Gonna leave while the heels are down by ten with 4 minutes.


Barnes has this to lose, and may, but we can hope.

[davekay1971]

Nights like this are made for wine, candles, and enjoying the meltdown in IC.

Btw, anybody notice the downtrend of Ol' Roy's fortunes at the Dump on the Hump ever since the Athletic Dept made the decision to take the BBall players out of the AFAM eligibility factory in 2009? I'm sure that's just a coincidence...not the result of his players actually having to devote time away from basketball do actual schoolwork.

[FerryFor50]

McAdoo-doo.

[FerryFor50]

Good news is, Texas beat UNC.

Bad news.... Kabongo is being suspended for the season according to Yahoo.

[loran16]

He also said that McAdoo is one of the top low post players in the country. Can we just drop that mantra? I thought the Powell kid at Stanford looked like a better player last night than McAdoo. He is just overrated. Not his fault, but he is nowhere near as good as he is hyped to be.

I guess it sounds nice if you keep saying it over and over though.

He's just not good on offense - doesn't rebound great, doesn't shoot a high enough percentage, doesn't lead to assists. And yet he gets an incredibly high percentage of his shots. Everyone thought he'd improve from last year, but he's stayed static.

His D may be solid - I haven't seen enough to say. But his O is mediocre at best.

[striker219]

Nights like this are made for wine, candles, and enjoying the meltdown in IC.

And wow, the meltdown is a good one. The game thread over there is just...

I know things get ugly here when games don't go well, but those guys have really raised freaking out to an art form.

[snowdenscold]

Nights like this are made for wine, candles, and enjoying the meltdown in IC.


And getting to witness one of the ugliest 3-pointers ever made, courtesy of PJ Hairston. Seriously, how did that go in?

[miramar]

Good news is, Texas beat UNC.

Bad news.... Kabongo is being suspended for the season according to Yahoo.

Texas managed to score 85 points against UNC with two of their best players missing, one likely permanently. This is the same team that scored 63 against UCLA and 41 vs. Georgetown. In fact, Texas had only scored over 70 points twice, against Chaminade and Texas State.

Of course, UNC gave up 87 to ECU so perhaps their defense is improving slowly but surely...

[texas]

we are terrible this season and beat up UNC. you're welcome? that cannot bode well for UNC.

the loss of Kabongo hurts but hopefully now we can move on and progress with the young team

[loran16]

Texas managed to score 85 points against UNC with two of their best players missing, one likely permanently. This is the same team that scored 63 against UCLA and 41 vs. Georgetown. In fact, Texas had only scored over 70 points twice, against Chaminade and Texas State.

Of course, UNC gave up 87 to ECU so perhaps their defense is improving slowly but surely...

Again, you can't compare those games:

Texas-UNC: 85 Possessions (1 point per possession)
Texas-UCLA: 71 possessions
Texas-Georgetown: 69 Possessions.

In other words, this was a much faster game. Now, yeah, the Texas team performed better offensively vs UNC than it has vs any opponent, but it's not as crazy as you make it sound.

[roywhite]

Though I certainly enjoy a TarHeel loss, I found that a tough game to watch, some good plays, but very uneven, and plenty of mistakes.

One thing it did NOT look like was a couple of well-coached teams going at each other. Coming off his health problems, I'm not sure Ole Roy can get the job done with this mis-matched group of players.

[striker219]

Could someone please get a clip of that FLOP OF THE CENTURY, and post it on here . . . make it a sticky! Then dare any UNC Troll to ever mention flopping again.

(The flop occurred at about the 8:00 mark in the first half.)

Sorry, the quality of the video is on par with the quality of the defense, it's all I could find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t1zfXfLL6e0

[roywhite]

Boxscore: Texas 85 -- UNC 67 (http://www.goheels.com//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3350&CONTENT_ID=287056)

UNC with some really bad offensive numbers:
31.3% FG
15.8% 3-pt
68.8% FT
11 assists and 18 turnovers

And to think that defense might be the bigger problem?
Wow.

[westwall]

One thing it did NOT look like was a couple of well-coached teams going at each other. Coming off his health problems, I'm not sure Ole Roy can get the job done with this mis-matched group of players.

I saw only the second half, and despite ill-advised play by Texas for much of that period, UNC could not catch up. Although UNC clearly has individual talent, this is not a vintage (read: Dean Smith) team. Whether mis-matched or mis-coached, Ol' Roy has a big problem on his hands.

[uh_no]

Sorry, the quality of the video is on par with the quality of the defense, it's all I could find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t1zfXfLL6e0

that'll do JUST fine

[licc85]

So whats the over/under for the Duke vs. UNC spread gonna be? I'm guessing at least 15. They are horrendous this year, and we are incredibly good. I can't wait to see how badly we stomp them. Still, it's Duke/UNC, I guess the rivalry game is usually pretty close even when one of us is down, but I doubt it this year. Indiana crushed these guys, and we should be able to do the same. Here's to hoping for a 20 point blowout where Todd gets in the game and dunks on McAdoo.

[OldPhiKap]

Per inside Carolina quotes after the game:

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1250867.html


“if you’re real confident and your play stinks, you’ve got to understand that to get better and if you’re unconfident and your play stinks, it doesn’t make any difference if you’re confident or not, you’ve got to start freaking playing better,” Williams told reporters during his postgame press conference. “So far we haven’t been able to do that.
"We’ve played Butler, a very quality opponent. We’ve played Indiana, a very quality opponent. We’ve played Texas at Texas, Indiana at Indiana and those are good opponents. We haven’t played well any of those three games... I’ve got to do a heck of a lot better job and they’ve got to buy in and we’re just doing some of the silliest things out there that I’ve ever seen.”

When asked if he agreed with his head coach’s comment about the players needing to buy in, James Michael McAdoo replied, “If he says so, yeah.”

“Definitely, as you can see tonight,” the sophomore forward continued. “We buy in, we beat this team easily.”

Junior wing Reggie Bullock was more outspoken, telling reporters that Williams’s comment was on point.

“A lot of players just don’t need to worry about individual stats,” Bullock said. “Just go out and commit to this team.”

Iceberg off the starboard bow.

[roywhite]

So whats the over/under for the Duke vs. UNC spread gonna be? I'm guessing at least 15. They are horrendous this year, and we are incredibly good. I can't wait to see how badly we stomp them. Still, it's Duke/UNC, I guess the rivalry game is usually pretty close even when one of us is down, but I doubt it this year. Indiana crushed these guys, and we should be able to do the same. Here's to hoping for a 20 point blowout where Todd gets in the game and dunks on McAdoo.

Current RPI ratings (http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-rpi.html)

1 Duke
57 UNC

Standard disclaimers....it's just December, UNC has talent, you never know in rivalry games, blah, blah, blah. ;)

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

that'll do JUST fine

Best part might be one of the comments labeling it the "classic fainting goat"

[davekay1971]

Per inside Carolina quotes after the game:

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1250867.html



Iceberg off the starboard bow.

That game last night may have been the screeching sound of the iceberg tearing through the hull...

[ChillinDuke]

Current RPI ratings (http://www.rpiforecast.com/live-rpi.html)

1 Duke
57 UNC

Standard disclaimers....it's just December, UNC has talent, you never know in rivalry games, blah, blah, blah. ;)

While I am by no means an expert in understanding the RPI, I will point out that Duke is #1 in RPI and ahead of #2 Colorado by .0562. That is a bigger gap than spans from #2 to #17 UNLV.

- Chillin

[DonnyDevil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1zfXfLL6e0

[miramar]

Again, you can't compare those games:

Texas-UNC: 85 Possessions (1 point per possession)
Texas-UCLA: 71 possessions
Texas-Georgetown: 69 Possessions.

In other words, this was a much faster game. Now, yeah, the Texas team performed better offensively vs UNC than it has vs any opponent, but it's not as crazy as you make it sound.

Good point. There is no question that it was a faster game as UT took 74 shots against UNC vs. 62 against UCLA and only 48 vs. Georgetown. However, a big factor in all that was that UNC shot 31.3% (15.8% on threes) and turned the ball over 18 times, so Carolina was giving Texas the opportunity to take all of those shots. So while it's not entirely crazy, UNC was certainly aiding and abetting. UT was only averaging 51 shots per game, so 74 is really high.

What was a bit crazy, at least if you compare this game to UT's last tough game vs. UCLA, was that UT did not collapse at the end as expected. Texas had a ten point lead in the final quarter of play and UNC closed to four with under eight minutes, so it seemed that UT would suffer another agonizing loss. Instead, UNC feel apart and lost by 18. Even with free throws, I don't know how a top 25 team (at least for this week) can be outscored 25-11 at the end by this Texas squad.

I won't say that Barnes outcoached Williams since I don't think he's ever done that to anyone, but it certainly didn't look good for ol' Roy.

[oldnavy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1zfXfLL6e0

Love it! I will book mark this and show it to all my tarheel friends whenever they mention Duke flopping!!

[MChambers]

Good point. There is no question that it was a faster game as UT took 74 shots against UNC vs. 62 against UCLA and only 48 vs. Georgetown. However, a big factor in all that was that UNC shot 31.3% (15.8% on threes) and turned the ball over 18 times, so Carolina was giving Texas the opportunity to take all of those shots. So while it's not entirely crazy, UNC was certainly aiding and abetting. UT was only averaging 51 shots per game, so 74 is really high.

What was a bit crazy, at least if you compare this game to UT's last tough game vs. UCLA, was that UT did not collapse at the end as expected. Texas had a ten point lead in the final quarter of play and UNC closed to four with under eight minutes, so it seemed that UT would suffer another agonizing loss. Instead, UNC feel apart and lost by 18. Even with free throws, I don't know how a top 25 team (at least for this week) can be outscored 25-11 at the end by this Texas squad.

I won't say that Barnes outcoached Williams since I don't think he's ever done that to anyone, but it certainly didn't look good for ol' Roy.

The irony is that Texas recently lost to UCLA, led by LD II and the Wears.

[Bob Green]

Jimmy Dykes just called Reggie Bullock the "best shooter in the ACC."

Well Reggie Bullock currently leads the ACC in 3-PT FG% at .453 so Jimmy Dykes is technically correct. Of course, I am defending Dykes because I happen to like him as an announcer.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/confldrs.html

[FerryFor50]

Well Reggie Bullock currently leads the ACC in 3-PT FG% at .453 so Jimmy Dykes is technically correct. Of course, I am defending Dykes because I happen to like him as an announcer.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/confldrs.html

Well, he didn't qualify it with "best 3 pt shooter" :)

[roywhite]

Well Reggie Bullock currently leads the ACC in 3-PT FG% at .453 so Jimmy Dykes is technically correct. Of course, I am defending Dykes because I happen to like him as an announcer.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/confldrs.html

Quinn Cook is hitting almost 48.5% from 3-pt. His totals are 16-33, which is fewer attempts than Bullock, and possibly below some minimum for this stat.
Still, it means he takes 3 or more per game, and hits almost half; pretty impressive.

Bullock is a very good long-range shooter; we'll see how the numbers work out over the season.

[Bob Green]

Quinn Cook is hitting almost 48.5% from 3-pt. His totals are 16-33, which is fewer attempts than Bullock, and possibly below some minimum for this stat.

I am reasonably certain the requirement is two made 3 PT FGs per game played.

[ChillinDuke]

I am reasonably certain the requirement is two made 3 PT FGs per game played.

Made or attempted?

I assume attempted.

- Chillin

[pfrduke]

Made or attempted?

I assume attempted.

- Chillin

Pretty sure it's made. There are usually very few people who even qualify for the 3pt% stat on the season (at least as the ACC tracks it).

[ChillinDuke]

Pretty sure it's made. There are usually very few people who even qualify for the 3pt% stat on the season (at least as the ACC tracks it).

Isn't that dumb?

So if you attempt tons of threes and miss almost all of them, you're not ranked in 3pt %? You might be bad, but you should still be ranked. I'm thinking baseball where ABs are the qualifier for the batting title.

- Chillin

[Wander]

He also said that McAdoo is one of the top low post players in the country. Can we just drop that mantra? I thought the Powell kid at Stanford looked like a better player last night than McAdoo. He is just overrated. Not his fault, but he is nowhere near as good as he is hyped to be.

McAdoo reminds me a bit of Josh McRoberts. Good defender, athletic, highly rated, good rebounder, but not great at low post scoring and gets exposed after deciding to come back for this sophomore season when everyone else graduated/left for the NBA. A good piece for your team, but not someone you want as the "main guy."

[Bob Green]

Isn't that dumb?

So if you attempt tons of threes and miss almost all of them, you're not ranked in 3pt %? You might be bad, but you should still be ranked. I'm thinking baseball where ABs are the qualifier for the batting title.

- Chillin

It is two made 3 PT FGs per game and I do not believe it is dumb. The two made per game requirement ensures the conference is recognizing success. At the end of the season, over say 35 games, is a player who made 14 of 20 3-PT FGs (70%) a better "shooter" than the player who made 70 of 150 (46.6%)? IMO, the answer is no. So it isn't about the player who takes and misses a lot of shots, but rather about the player who takes very few shots but makes a lot of the ones he does take. Perhaps that player is an end of the bench guy who made all 14 shots during garbage time.

[sagegrouse]

Isn't that dumb?

So if you attempt tons of threes and miss almost all of them, you're not ranked in 3pt %? You might be bad, but you should still be ranked. I'm thinking baseball where ABs are the qualifier for the batting title.

- Chillin

Hey, Chillin! suppose we do it by attempts. Maybe it's five per game? That would require 160 attempts in a 32-game season. But then you have a guy who makes 70 out of 140. He doesn't win 'cuz he doesn't have enough attempts. Is this what you want?

sagegrouse

[Olympic Fan]

It is two made 3 PT FGs per game and I do not believe it is dumb. The two made per game requirement ensures the conference is recognizing success. At the end of the season, over say 35 games, is a player who made 14 of 20 3-PT FGs (70%) a better "shooter" than the player who made 70 of 150 (46.6%)? IMO, the answer is no. So it isn't about the player who takes and misses a lot of shots, but rather about the player who takes very few shots but makes a lot of the ones he does take. Perhaps that player is an end of the bench guy who made all 14 shots during garbage time.

That standard is as Bob mentions, two made 3-pointers a game. Right now, just six ACC players meet that standard (and Michael Snaer is on the bubble with 18 made 3s in nine games).

I agree that it's a ridiculous standard, but that the NCAA rule. I know that Brian Morrison, who handles the ACC numbers, has lobbied for years to lower the standard to 1.5 a game. But the ACC has to follow the NCAA standard.

[roywhite]

Back to our guy Quinn Cook and the ACC...he is playing really well at the PG position. Ball handling, good passing, good defense, selective but deadly 3-point shooting....his development is fun to watch.

Trying to think of ACC PG's that will give him trouble. I was impressed with Larkin of Miami (and Durand Scott makes a second good backcourt performer on that team). Am I missing someone in the league who can play at Quinn's level?

[Wander]

Trying to think of ACC PG's that will give him trouble. I was impressed with Larkin of Miami (and Durand Scott makes a second good backcourt performer on that team). Am I missing someone in the league who can play at Quinn's level?

Green of Virginia Tech is the big one. But other than that...

[Dukeface88]

It is two made 3 PT FGs per game and I do not believe it is dumb. The two made per game requirement ensures the conference is recognizing success. At the end of the season, over say 35 games, is a player who made 14 of 20 3-PT FGs (70%) a better "shooter" than the player who made 70 of 150 (46.6%)? IMO, the answer is no. So it isn't about the player who takes and misses a lot of shots, but rather about the player who takes very few shots but makes a lot of the ones he does take. Perhaps that player is an end of the bench guy who made all 14 shots during garbage time.

Sure, but wouldn't a guy who makes 60 out of 120 (50%) be a better shooter than Mr. 70-of-150? That's a respectable number of shots, but he still doesn't qualify for the 3-pt%. To put it in more practical terms, none of our players on the 2011 or 2012 teams qualified for the 3-pt%. You'd have a hard time convincing me that those teams had no 3-point shooters.

I think most everyone agrees that there should be some cut-off; the issue is whether the current cut-off is too high.

[Kedsy]

Trying to think of ACC PG's that will give him trouble. I was impressed with Larkin of Miami (and Durand Scott makes a second good backcourt performer on that team). Am I missing someone in the league who can play at Quinn's level?


Green of Virginia Tech is the big one. But other than that...

Lorenzo Brown?

[loran16]

It is two made 3 PT FGs per game and I do not believe it is dumb. The two made per game requirement ensures the conference is recognizing success. At the end of the season, over say 35 games, is a player who made 14 of 20 3-PT FGs (70%) a better "shooter" than the player who made 70 of 150 (46.6%)? IMO, the answer is no. So it isn't about the player who takes and misses a lot of shots, but rather about the player who takes very few shots but makes a lot of the ones he does take. Perhaps that player is an end of the bench guy who made all 14 shots during garbage time.

Sorry Bob, I'll have to disagree with you - and hell, every other sport keeping statistics disagrees with you and any statistics major would disagree with you. The problem with using makes instead of attempts is that you can end of rewarding something that is simply a fluke of a small sample size.

To use your example, the guy who makes 14/20 3 pt FGs will qualify under 7 games while the guy who is 13/60 will not. Yet do we know that the guy who's made 14/20 is really a good shooter? The answer is no - in 20 shots, even a 30% or 25% shooter might get lucky and hit 14 - it's too small a sample for us to really know. By contrast, we have a fairly good idea the 13/60 guy is a bad shooter.

By putting the statistics qualifier in terms of made baskets instead of attempts, you are essentially allowing small sample size flukes to be on the leaderboard while excluding good data. That's the exact opposite of what should be happening when you impose a requirement for being listed on a leaderboard - qualifications are meant to weed out bad samples.

[Bob Green]

Sorry Bob, I'll have to disagree with you - and hell, every other sport keeping statistics disagrees with you and any statistics major would disagree with you.

I can't argue with you because I don't know jack about statistics....I just use them when the obvious interpretation supports my position. ;) The bottom line is two made 3 PT FGs per game is the requirement.

[snowdenscold]

That standard is as Bob mentions, two made 3-pointers a game. Right now, just six ACC players meet that standard (and Michael Snaer is on the bubble with 18 made 3s in nine games).

I agree that it's a ridiculous standard, but that the NCAA rule. I know that Brian Morrison, who handles the ACC numbers, has lobbied for years to lower the standard to 1.5 a game. But the ACC has to follow the NCAA standard.

I agree 1.5 makes a lot more sense. So who in the NCAA is saying "no" ? Is it just a bureaucratic problem where it was just picked awhile ago and now no one's really assigned to it and no one wants to be bothered to take on an additional task to consider it?

[Bob Green]

I didn't watch the game because I was busy watching Washington lose to Boise St in football so the following comments are based solely upon the NC State, St. Bonaventure box score. Richard Howell appears to be up to his old tricks fouling out with zero points in 12 minutes. Howell is an imposing physical presence when he can stay out of foul trouble. The Wolfpack played three guards and Lorenzo Brown dished out eleven assists, while C.J. Leslie and Scott Wood scored 33 and 23 points respectively. Leslie made 13 of 18 free throws and Wood made 5 of 7 3-pointers. Freshmen T.J. Warren and Rodney Purvis kicked in 13 and nine points.

State is probably going to struggle with consistency at times this year, but I believe they will live up to some of the preseason hype. Our game in Raleigh on January 12th will be an early indicator for the conference power rankings.

Perhaps I'll head over to ESPN3 and watch the replay.

[Olympic Fan]

Just wanted to take a slight issue with the front page devaluation of Florida State's victory over UNC Charlotte.

Rather than seeing the close win as another sign of FSU weakness, I see a 3-point win at 11-2 Charlotte (their only losses to FSU and at Miami) as a sign that the 'Noles are finally starting go get it. It's the first game that Michael Snaer played like the star a lot of us thought he was going to be,

Not saying they're all the way back to what we thought, but this was a good first step.

Although I notice that Ian Miller was still sidelined. What's up with that.

Huge ACC game late tonight -- Miami takes on unbeaten Arizona in Hawaii.

[davekay1971]

I didn't watch the game because I was busy watching Washington lose to Boise St in football so the following comments are based solely upon the NC State, St. Bonaventure box score. Richard Howell appears to be up to his old tricks fouling out with zero points in 12 minutes. .

I missed the first half but watched the 2nd on ESPN3, and, Bob, you are indeed right. Howell played sloppy and fouled unnecessarily and took himself out of the game. State didn't need him. Scott Wood, Lorenzo Brown, CJ Leslie, and the freshmen Purvis and Warren all played very well. But in a game against better competition, that kind of performance by Howell will cost NC State the game. So far this season, Howell has been State's most consistent performer, and when he's in the game and able to contribute, he makes State a much, much better team. He's every bit as important for State as Mason is for us.

One sign that ought to have State concerned is that Howell was clearly bothered by St. Bonnie's 7 footer. Howell is strong, but undersized. Against a strong guy with 3-4 inches on him (ahem, Mason), Howell looked to have trouble getting his offense and was prone to foul on defense. Duke and State are likely to try to get each other's center in foul trouble, and I think Duke has the advantage on that. If Mason gets Howell in foul trouble, State has to put Vandenberg against Mason, and that's not a good matchup for the Pack. Of course, if Mason gets in foul trouble and Howell doesn't, Howell would have the advantage in pure physical strength over Marshall and Hairston.

[loran16]

Just wanted to take a slight issue with the front page devaluation of Florida State's victory over UNC Charlotte.

Rather than seeing the close win as another sign of FSU weakness, I see a 3-point win at 11-2 Charlotte (their only losses to FSU and at Miami) as a sign that the 'Noles are finally starting go get it. It's the first game that Michael Snaer played like the star a lot of us thought he was going to be,

Not saying they're all the way back to what we thought, but this was a good first step.

Although I notice that Ian Miller was still sidelined. What's up with that.

Huge ACC game late tonight -- Miami takes on unbeaten Arizona in Hawaii.

Here's the problem: "11-2" Charlotte isn't good. Charlotte's 11 wins include 1 top 100 Pomeroy team - Davidson and includes 6 wins out of the top 250. Pomeroy has them ranked 99th. Now it was a win AT Charlotte, which makes it better - Pomeroy expected Charlotte to win by 1. But that's really not that impressive.

FSU is still bad and hasn't shown anything else.

[davekay1971]

Here's the problem: "11-2" Charlotte isn't good. Charlotte's 11 wins include 1 top 100 Pomeroy team - Davidson.


Hey, that's one more win than UNC has against a top 100 Pomeroy team. Oh wait, that's right, UNC stinks.

[ChillinDuke]

Just wanted to take a slight issue with the front page devaluation of Florida State's victory over UNC Charlotte.

Rather than seeing the close win as another sign of FSU weakness, I see a 3-point win at 11-2 Charlotte (their only losses to FSU and at Miami) as a sign that the 'Noles are finally starting go get it. It's the first game that Michael Snaer played like the star a lot of us thought he was going to be,

Not saying they're all the way back to what we thought, but this was a good first step.

Although I notice that Ian Miller was still sidelined. What's up with that.

Huge ACC game late tonight -- Miami takes on unbeaten Arizona in Hawaii.

I watched the Miami-Hawaii game last night (don't ask), and I wanted to emphasize to everyone that Miami looks really good. Hawaii is not a good team, but it was in Hawaii so there could have been jet lag involved, and Big Reggie did not play with a finger issue (day-to-day).

After a first half in which Miami appeared the better and stronger team, they had little to show for it with a 1pt halftime lead.

The second half was all business. Larkin looks like a solid PG, Kadji is a similar player to Kelly - a shooter with size that can rebound, Gamble had a near double-double in the first half, and Scott is just a baller. Rion Brown and Trey McKinney-Jones are both nice pieces as well. And, again, this was all without Big Reggie.

All normal caveats aside, to my eye Miami may well be our biggest competition in the ACC this year. They can do real damage.

- Chillin