MBB: Butler 88, Indiana 86 (OT)

[dukelifer]

7:32 to go. Bulter within 3

[hurleyfor3]

Butler up two, under six remaining.

I think IU came out of the locker room for the second half already in the bonus.

[RoyalBlue08]

I hope Indiana pulls this out. Seems to me #1 is all downside, just puts a bigger target on the team's back.

[Indoor66]

Zeller is soft.

[subzero02]

I should've gone with my instincts and started this thread in the first half...LOL.. I love Butler basketball. They should win this game... We will see how things unfold... No fouls, no turnovers

[OldPhiKap]

Boy, Butler is fun to watch if you like fundamental, solid play. Go Bulldogs!


Butler starting to foul out, though.

[uh_no]

Boy, Butler is fun to watch if you like fundamental, solid play. Go Bulldogs!


Butler starting to foul out, though.

they're down to a minute to go....just need to not turn it over and commit silly fouls

[Cameron]

I hope Indiana pulls this out. Seems to me #1 is all downside, just puts a bigger target on the team's back.

The best want that top spot. I want it badly.

Unfortunately, the officiating crew is seemingly doing everything in its power to get Indiana free points at the line.

[moonpie23]

IU making the mistakes now.....
GO BUTLER

pressure free throws to ice the game for butler

[1 24 90]

Oh well, so much for being #1 next week. IU should roll in overtime.

[Indoor66]

Over time

[subzero02]

Unbelievable... They should've fouled them

[nyesq83]

Turned the sound off, Kellogg is officially Dairy Queened. What an awful signature line.

While I am bashing him, his insistence that Indiana go for a quick two was just silly.

Indiana wanted OT with two Butler guys having fouled out.

[dukelifer]

Turned the sound off, Kellogg is officially Dairy Queened. What an awful signature line.

While I am bashing him, his insistence that Indiana go for a quick two was just silly.

Indiana wanted OT with two Butler guys having fouled out.

Great game! Indiana kids know how to put on a show.

[moonpie23]

what a great game......butler getting no love from the refs

[juise]

Fantastic game. Let's see if the Hoosiers have one more big shot in 'em.

[subzero02]

Wooo freaking hoo

[dukelifer]

Fantastic game. Let's see if the Hoosiers have one more big shot in 'em.

Walk-on with the floater- wow!

[dukelifer]

Duke number 1- I mean Bulter wins! Great- great game!

[hurleyfor3]

I love being #1. Bring it on.

[Cameron]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c72.0.403.403/p403x403/600007_524377660925118_299850565_n.jpg

Where we belong.

[nyesq83]

Does this mean Butler is #1?

[1 24 90]

Oh well, so much for being #1 next week. IU should roll in overtime.

Wrong again. Back to #1. Thanks Butler. Brad Stevens, you're my hero.

[juise]

No shame in losing to Butler... they give great effort and have great coaching. The only shame is when your team gets run out of the gym and your coach can't make adjustments to stop the bleeding... Not naming names. ;)

[Cameron]

Does this mean Butler is #1?

There is no doubt in my mind that the Bulldogs will jump from unranked to top 15, possibly top 10 come Monday.

[hillsborodevil]

What a super nice XMAS gift for all Duke BB Fans!

[OldPhiKap]

Down go Hoosiers! Down go Hoosiers!

[Indoor66]

I'll say it again: Zeller is soft.

[tele]

Thanks Indy! Nice to see some high level hoops there; hoosiers and bulldogs, Crean and Stevens, I needed that today.

[subzero02]

It's appropriate that we reach 100 consecutive weeks in the top 10 as the #1 team in the country... Btw Mason>Cody

[hurleyfor3]

I'll say it again: Zeller is soft.

Maybe even fuzzy?

[rthomas]

Somebody besides Duke has beaten a top 5 team this year.

And Duke probably goes to #1 without beating anybody this week.

[uh_no]

i'll just throw it out there, but there is a prime example of what can happen when you don't crash the boards for much of the game....until butler's bigs went out with foul trouble, IU was getting killed on the boards...

[miramar]

I'll say it again: Zeller is soft.

Considering that everybody seems to think that he's all world, five rebounds in a big game is not going to cut it.

[gus]

perhaps I'm being too sensitive, but I wish DBR had chosen a different headline.

[NashvilleDevil]

perhaps I'm being too sensitive, but I wish DBR had chosen a different headline.

Agreed

[devildeac]

Wonder if any of the pundits will wail and moan about the 38-16 FT advantage the Hoosiers had.

3025

Nah, didn't think so:rolleyes:.

[cspan37421]

perhaps I'm being too sensitive, but I wish DBR had chosen a different headline.

Yep ... very bad timing. Wonder if the headline writer hasn't seen the national news in a couple days.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

perhaps I'm being too sensitive, but I wish DBR had chosen a different headline.

Totally agreed on that.

I hope that some of our gloating doesn't come back to bite us. I mean, there are some really good teams out there that can be great teams on the right night. Duke has been victim to that before and could easily fall to it again.

That being said, I am excited about the (likely) number one ranking...and the bullseye that goes right along with it. :-)

[nyesq83]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Bulldogs will jump from unranked to top 15, possibly top 10 come Monday.
:p
I was being cute, but thanks anyway!
:cool:

[dukelifer]

Totally agreed on that.

I hope that some of our gloating doesn't come back to bite us. I mean, there are some really good teams out there that can be great teams on the right night. Duke has been victim to that before and could easily fall to it again.

That being said, I am excited about the (likely) number one ranking...and the bullseye that goes right along with it. :-)

Number 1 at this point means nothing. For Duke it is a right of passage- team good enough to be 1 at some point in the season. Duke players have a bullseye tattooed on their bodies. 1 or 100- that is always the case.

[Cameron]

:p
I was being cute, but thanks anyway!
:cool:

I figured you were. I was just stating where I think Butler will land on Monday. You brought up a good point of discussion.

[Cameron]

As for the DBR headline, I think it is just fine. Butler guns down Indiana might have been too much, but I think the DBR writer just meant No. 1 with a bulls-eye, or something to that effect. I very much doubt that anybody outside of our base would read that and automatically think about Connecticut and think that Duke's fans are being insensitive.

So, using that headline in two weeks would be ok, but not today? I don't subscribe to that at all. But perhaps that's just me.

[subzero02]

#1 with bullet is a reference to the billboard charts. The charts place a bullet next to songs/albums that have moved up a position from the previous week... Therefore if the AP poll had the same practice we would be #1 with a bullet next week since we will move up from a #2 ranking this week... Bullet is not a reference to ammunition

[dukebluelemur]

#1 with bullet is a reference to the billboard charts. The charts place a bullet next to songs/albums that have moved up a position from the previous week... Therefore if the AP poll had the same practice we would be #1 with a bullet next week since we will move up from a #2 ranking this week... Bullet is not a reference to ammunition

I am about the least PC person you will meet. And I agree that it is not really referencing guns. That said, words with multiple meanings unsurprisingly sometimes bring the stronger of the meanings to mind even if the less/or completely un-offensive meaning is the one used. Rape can be the despoiling of the countryside, faggot is a bundle of sticks, I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. is a female dog... It is unfortunate that words like these share meanings and sometimes make their legitimate use awkward.

All that said, when I saw the headline, the word bullet triggered immediate thoughts of the recent shooting, EVEN THOUGH, I am completely aware that that was not the meaning being used. While I think on an everyday basis nobody should apologize for using a word in a legitimate and unoffensive manner, just because some people are overly sensitive, I think in times of great pain perhaps a little more discretion and restraint would be a kindness.

[cptnflash]

Considering that everybody seems to think that he's all world, five rebounds in a big game is not going to cut it.

It's hard to get defensive rebounds when you're getting subbed out for a better defender at every dead ball in games that are close late. Zeller was subbed numerous times in the closing minutes of regulation and again in OT, including the play where Barlow hit the game winner. I'm sorry, but if you're not good enough to be on the floor in a tie game with 20 seconds to go in overtime, you are not POY material. Period.

Of course, utter lack of defense didn't stop everyone from voting for Jimmer two years ago, so who knows. But Zeller is clearly a defensive liability, and Crean knows it.

[BD80]

Wonder if any of the pundits will wail and moan about the 38-16 FT advantage the Hoosiers had. ...

At one point in the second half, Indiana had MISSED more free throws than Butler had taken.

[gus]

#1 with bullet is a reference to the billboard charts. The charts place a bullet next to songs/albums that have moved up a position from the previous week... Therefore if the AP poll had the same practice we would be #1 with a bullet next week since we will move up from a #2 ranking this week... Bullet is not a reference to ammunition

I'm aware of the reference, though considering Billboard magazine refers to it as "a star performer", I suspect using the term "bullet" does refer to ammunition, or more specifically a bullet hole in a paper target, which the star resembles. It certainly could refer to the punctuation mark, but that's a distinction without a difference, as "bullet point" and "bullet" have the same origin: small metal ball. It entered the English language first as a reference to ammunition. Regardless, in the context of a billboard chart, the reference makes even less sense, as moving from 2 to 1 without playing a game would hardly qualify. It signaled big changes, not a default slide into first.

All that said, you can debate the etymology all you want, but the point is that "bullet" is evocative of a tragedy that just happened.

[Cameron]

All that said, you can debate the etymology all you want, but the point is that "bullet" is evocative of a tragedy that just happened.

Eh. In six weeks, if DBR were to use the same reference, no one would give it a second thought. But are there still not scores of people being tragically murdered somewhere every day? Is the bullet reference any less evocative of just a typical everyday murder?

I completely understand where you are coming from, but as unfortunate as its timing may be, I very much doubt that the phrase actually hurt anybody's feelings.

[WiJoe]

Just one reason you shouldn't cheer for Indiana ... ever.

''We cost ourselves at the end of the game defensively,'' coach Tom Crean said after waiting more than an hour to take questions. ''They made the plays, there's no question about that. But we made the mistakes on how we guarded them.''

[uh_no]

Just one reason you shouldn't cheer for Indiana ... ever.

''We cost ourselves at the end of the game defensively,'' coach Tom Crean said after waiting more than an hour to take questions. ''They made the plays, there's no question about that. But we made the mistakes on how we guarded them.''

Why? his team thought they were the best team in the country and suffered a huge setback today. Is it unreasonable to think he was talking to his players for that much time? Isn't 30-40 minutes normal anyway? Maybe he needed an extra long shower?

anyway, without any context, it's hard to criticize him....

[WiJoe]

Why? his team thought they were the best team in the country and suffered a huge setback today. Is it unreasonable to think he was talking to his players for that much time? Isn't 30-40 minutes normal anyway? Maybe he needed an extra long shower?

anyway, without any context, it's hard to criticize him....

Huge setback? On Dec. 15? Please. He makes people wait an hour? Seriously? Is it unreasonable? H*ll yeah, it's unreasonable! he pulled that crap with annoying frequency when he was at marquette. he's a baby and a jerk, just like his brother in law, jim harbaugh.

That team also has some bad actors, victor o and sheehy, in particular.

Enough context for ya?

[tieguy]

Huge setback? On Dec. 15? Please. He makes people wait an hour? Seriously? Is it unreasonable? H*ll yeah, it's unreasonable! he pulled that crap with annoying frequency when he was at marquette. he's a baby and a jerk, just like his brother in law, jim harbaugh.

Dunno. Some people might call that "coaching his team", which is, you know, his job? Not talking to the media?

[WiJoe]

Dunno. Some people might call that "coaching his team", which is, you know, his job? Not talking to the media?

I dunno. Do you think coach K EVER took more than an hour before addressing the ink-stained wretches and microphone jockeys (print and electronic reporters)?

[uh_no]

I dunno. Do you think coach K EVER took more than an hour before addressing the ink-stained wretches and microphone jockeys (print and electronic reporters)?

Coach K also doesn't play zone....does that mean that no good coach should do it?

[brevity]

Brad Stevens, you're my hero.

Coach Stevens just gets it done, again and again. Somewhere in Spokane, Mark Few is sitting in a chair idly wondering where his mid-major coaching buzz went.

[Cameron]

Coach Stevens just gets it done, again and again. Somewhere in Spokane, Mark Few is sitting in a chair idly wondering where his mid-major coaching buzz went.

Is he wearing a Sherlock Holmes hat and smoking on a pipe?

Brad Stevens is not only the best coach from a mid-major conference -- make no mistake about it, the conference Butler is in may be a mid major, but Butler is an elite basketball school at this point -- but he is also a top six coach in America period. I'd group him into the same category as K, Roy, Donovan, Calipari and Self. (Note: I automatically leave a guy like Boeheim, despite his almost 900s wins and a championship, off this list, due to taking Syracuse -- not some mid major, but powerhouse Syracuse -- to four NITs since 1997.)

If all of the jobs were open at the same time and he wanted one of them, Stevens could pick between Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas and UCLA. That's what type of greatness we are talking about here. He could very well be the next K. Dare I say it. Just in terms of one day becoming the consensus best in the land at what he does, which K has been for the last decade+.

[papa whiskey]

Every time I watch Brad Stevens on the sidelines and see how hard his teams play for him I can't help but think that when Coach K retires after the 2026-2027 season we should seriously consider him as a replacement. He just seems like he could be a 30 year guy.

[gam7]

Every time I watch Brad Stevens on the sidelines and see how hard his teams play for him I can't help but think that when Coach K retires after the 2026-2027 season we should seriously consider him as a replacement. He just seems like he could be a 30 year guy.

It seems as though he'd be a great fit for Duke. And when the time comes, there will be some clamoring on these boards for him, but I estimate that there is about a 0.2% chance that he will be the next Duke coach. Coach K's opinion is obviously going to be a huge factor in deciding who comes next. For a guy who places such a high premium on loyalty, there's little chance the next coach will come from outside the family.

[papa whiskey]

It seems as though he'd be a great fit for Duke. And when the time comes, there will be some clamoring on these boards for him, but I estimate that there is about a 0.2% chance that he will be the next Duke coach. Coach K's opinion is obviously going to be a huge factor in deciding who comes next. For a guy who places such a high premium on loyalty, there's little chance the next coach will come from outside the family.

I really can't understand why. I get what you are saying but who in the Coach K "tree" has shown that they are capable of guiding a top tier national program. A step further, what coach "in the family" is currently a head coach at a major program? Dawkins? I love him to death but who has Stanford beat lately and what tournament runs have they gone on? Jeff Capel? The third guy on our bench right now? Collins or Woj, who have never been a head coach at any level? Krzyzewski coached against Stevens in a National Championship game and it took possibly the best game he ever coached to beat him. I would guess his opinion of Stevens is very high. I for one hope Duke does not make the mistake of making a hire based strictly on family. The best man for the job in terms of ability, character, and charisma may well rest outside of the family and we would be fools to dismiss such a candidate based on "family ties". Coaches who grew up and studied under a legend don't necessarily become great coaches themselves. For example, look at every coach Bill Belichick has put into the NFL. I think Stevens is the perfect fit for Duke. In fact I can't think of anyone I would rather have take over the program. JMHO. Besides, we don't have to worry about this for another 9-14 years anyway right?

[OldPhiKap]

I think Brad wants the Indiana job. But he is maybe the best coach out there with less than 900 wins.

It is fascinating to see how calm he stays at all times on the sideline. Even at the end if regulation and OT, he was acting like they were in control and no worries.

Extremely impressive, again.

[Ggallagher]

It seems as though he'd be a great fit for Duke. And when the time comes, there will be some clamoring on these boards for him, but I estimate that there is about a 0.2% chance that he will be the next Duke coach. Coach K's opinion is obviously going to be a huge factor in deciding who comes next. For a guy who places such a high premium on loyalty, there's little chance the next coach will come from outside the family.

Also I wouldn't want to overlook the fact that if "family" had been Duke's priority a few years back - there wouldn't be a glorious, wonderful "K" planted out on the floor of our court. That courageous choice worked out really well for us.
Of course considering Stevens as a candidate to replace Coach K is not nearly as courageous as picking Coach K in the first place.
It wouldn't bother me if Stevens was giving consideration.

[ChillinDuke]

I really can't understand why. I get what you are saying but who in the Coach K "tree" has shown that they are capable of guiding a top tier national program. A step further, what coach "in the family" is currently a head coach at a major program? Dawkins? I love him to death but who has Stanford beat lately and what tournament runs have they gone on? Jeff Capel? The third guy on our bench right now? Collins or Woj, who have never been a head coach at any level? Krzyzewski coached against Stevens in a National Championship game and it took possibly the best game he ever coached to beat him. I would guess his opinion of Stevens is very high. I for one hope Duke does not make the mistake of making a hire based strictly on family. The best man for the job in terms of ability, character, and charisma may well rest outside of the family and we would be fools to dismiss such a candidate based on "family ties". Coaches who grew up and studied under a legend don't necessarily become great coaches themselves. For example, look at every coach Bill Belichick has put into the NFL. I think Stevens is the perfect fit for Duke. In fact I can't think of anyone I would rather have take over the program. JMHO. Besides, we don't have to worry about this for another 9-14 years anyway right?

How long has Dawkins even been at Stanford? 4 yrs now? And they already won the NIT last year. No small feat. Add to that the consistently improving team over his short term, multiple Top-25 recruits listing Stanford on their list (Jabari, to name one), and a school with a very similar profile to Duke's and I think it's quite easy to see why Johnny Dawkins would be on the shortlist for "Next Duke Head Coach."

Sorry to hijack.

- Chillin

[moonpie23]

i'm betting that it's going to be chris collins...

[mgtr]

Not only is Indiana not the best team in the country, they aren't even the best team in Indiana!

[NSDukeFan]

I think Brad wants the Indiana job. But he is maybe the best coach out there with less than 900 wins.

It is fascinating to see how calm he stays at all times on the sideline. Even at the end if regulation and OT, he was acting like they were in control and no worries.

Extremely impressive, again.

I think I will always remember his reaction after Hayward's half-court heave missed. It wasn't extreme, but he kind of fell slightly backwards and bent his knees a bit. A typical understated reaction from a very calm and impressive coach.

[gumbomoop]

I'm not convinced Stevens will ever leave Butler. Perhaps naive on my part. Still, one motif running through many comments, on this and earlier Butler/Stevens threads, is how different he seems to be on the sidelines, in interviews, etc. Maybe he's different enough - as a person - to be steadfastly, matter-of-factly, no-drama loyal to a mid-major program that seems major enough to be able to schedule big teams regularly.

Little doubt he could make more money down the road at a historically major program. But presumably he'll make a real good living even at Butler. Maybe making lots - as opposed to gobs - of money will satisfy him, if other Butler-factors provide gobs of satisfaction.

Is Butler a really nice place to be? Is it fun, and even really interesting, to coach 1-and-2-and-3-star recruits, and beat the 4/5-star, "better" teams?

Again, perhaps naive on my part. He'll certainly get big offers soon enough, and regularly enough as long as the Butler/Stevens story is so entrancing.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm not convinced Stevens will ever leave Butler. Perhaps naive on my part. Still, one motif running through many comments, on this and earlier Butler/Stevens threads, is how different he seems to be on the sidelines, in interviews, etc. Maybe he's different enough - as a person - to be steadfastly, matter-of-factly, no-drama loyal to a mid-major program that seems major enough to be able to schedule big teams regularly.

Little doubt he could make more money down the road at a historically major program. But presumably he'll make a real good living even at Butler. Maybe making lots - as opposed to gobs - of money will satisfy him, if other Butler-factors provide gobs of satisfaction.

Is Butler a really nice place to be? Is it fun, and even really interesting, to coach 1-and-2-and-3-star recruits, and beat the 4/5-star, "better" teams?

Again, perhaps naive on my part. He'll certainly get big offers soon enough, and regularly enough as long as the Butler/Stevens story is so entrancing.

That is possible, and I would like to think this could happen.

[Olympic Fan]

I'm not convinced Stevens will ever leave Butler. Perhaps naive on my part. Still, one motif running through many comments, on this and earlier Butler/Stevens threads, is how different he seems to be on the sidelines, in interviews, etc. Maybe he's different enough - as a person - to be steadfastly, matter-of-factly, no-drama loyal to a mid-major program that seems major enough to be able to schedule big teams regularly.

Little doubt he could make more money down the road at a historically major program. But presumably he'll make a real good living even at Butler. Maybe making lots - as opposed to gobs - of money will satisfy him, if other Butler-factors provide gobs of satisfaction.

Is Butler a really nice place to be? Is it fun, and even really interesting, to coach 1-and-2-and-3-star recruits, and beat the 4/5-star, "better" teams?

Again, perhaps naive on my part. He'll certainly get big offers soon enough, and regularly enough as long as the Butler/Stevens story is so entrancing.

I think you raise the key point. Is he happy at Butler and will he stay there and churn out winning teams, manufacture stunning upsets and occassionally spark deep NCAA Tournamet runs ...

... Or will he -- at some point -- want to go to a school where he can win a national championship (I know that's possible at Butler -- he twice came close) and annually be among the elite teams?

So far, we've seen him turn down some chances for some pretty good programs -- NC State would have killed to get him after firing Sidney Lowe. Any number of struggling BCS programs would bury him hin money. So far, he hasn't been tempted.

But the final test won't come until onme of the elite schools comes calling. Can he turn down Indiana if Crean leaves? What about Kentucky if Calpiari's mess blows up and they want someone with his image (and coaching skills) to clean things up? UCLA will be coming open soon -- can you image how big he would be in LA?

I honestly don't know. I think we know that he won't leave for Penn State or Northwestern or even Illinois or St. John's. But would he leave for Indiana ... or Duke?

[OldPhiKap]

I think you raise the key point. Is he happy at Butler and will he stay there and churn out winning teams, manufacture stunning upsets and occassionally spark deep NCAA Tournamet runs ...

... Or will he -- at some point -- want to go to a school where he can win a national championship (I know that's possible at Butler -- he twice came close) and annually be among the elite teams?

So far, we've seen him turn down some chances for some pretty good programs -- NC State would have killed to get him after firing Sidney Lowe. Any number of struggling BCS programs would bury him hin money. So far, he hasn't been tempted.

But the final test won't come until onme of the elite schools comes calling. Can he turn down Indiana if Crean leaves? What about Kentucky if Calpiari's mess blows up and they want someone with his image (and coaching skills) to clean things up? UCLA will be coming open soon -- can you image how big he would be in LA?

I honestly don't know. I think we know that he won't leave for Penn State or Northwestern or even Illinois or St. John's. But would he leave for Indiana ... or Duke?

(Or UNC if Roy hangs it up)

[NSDukeFan]

Coach Stevens just gets it done, again and again. Somewhere in Spokane, Mark Few is sitting in a chair idly wondering where his mid-major coaching buzz went.

I believe Few deserves a ton of respect, if not buzz, for the job he has done at Gonzaga. He has made the tournament in all of the 13 years he has been head coach. Even Ol Roy can't say that about his program, though few (pun intended) can. He hasn't gotten over that sweet sixteen hump that would give him more buzz, but that is an amazing record for a mid-major, or any program. Kudos to him if he is happy where he is having built one of the top programs in the country, even without a big football TV contract.

[subzero02]

I don't want to see Stevens at UCLA... That could be a big problem for the rest of the country.

[NSDukeFan]

If you are very good at teaching student-athletes how to play basketball, but don't want to play the recruiting game at the highest levels and are happy competing against the top teams as an underdog, maybe it is better to have a great life at Davidson, Butler or Gonzaga than to have to always be recruiting at somewhere like UCLA.

[TruBlu]

(Or UNC if Roy hangs it up)

Or UNC if UNC hangs Roy up.

[camion]

Please, please don't let Stevens go to UK. I like him too much.

[chrishoke]

Who is Coach K more loyal to, Johnny Dawkins or Duke? Brad Stevens is the perfect fit for Duke. I agree with others that say he may be perfectly happy to stay at Butler his whole career. I certainly would understand and respect that - I think that it may even be likely. But I would be very disappointed in K if he steered Duke away from hiring the BEST replacement.

[hurleyfor3]

I think Brad wants the Indiana job. But he is maybe the best coach out there with less than 900 wins.

I see what you did there. (Boeheim = 899.)

[OldPhiKap]

I see what you did there. (Boeheim = 899.)

Yup, may need to amend my comment in a week or so.

Jim has kind of grown on me over the years, though, gotta admit. Would like to see Jim and Mike tee it up a few times (especially home and away) before one of them hangs it up.

[licc85]

I'm really happy to see the amount of discussion here for Brad Stevens as Coach K's successor. I've been lobbying for this since 2010, and I'm holding on to the hope that the reason Stevens wants to stay at Butler is because he's waiting on the Duke job. His style is the perfect fit for Duke, and he's under contract with Butler through the 2020-21 season, at point at which I think it would be likely to see Coach K decide to retire.

However, the biggest problem with hiring Stevens is that the rest of our world class coaching staff would likely leave with Coach K. Stevens is incredibly attractive because of his youth and his incredible amount of success despite that youth, but because of that, it's tough to see Collins and Wojo staying on as associate coaches with the younger Stevens at the helm. Jeff Capel also seems likely to take off. All 3 of those guys are more than capable of being the head guys at any number of schools and losing those 3 guys plus Coach K would be a massive hit to the program, and our recruiting. I dunno, no matter who we hire, our assistants already have such respect and name recognition by themselves, that it would be almost impossible to find someone who could command the amount of respect that it would take to keep them all on as assistants.

Hopefully, by the time Coach K retires, we find a fountain of youth or a way to clone him. I don't want to see this run end, it's been too good. I was born in 1986 . . . and 3 things have been constant in my life: Death, taxes, and Coach K as the head man at Duke.

[gep]

However, the biggest problem with hiring Stevens is that the rest of our world class coaching staff would likely leave with Coach K. Stevens is incredibly attractive because of his youth and his incredible amount of success despite that youth, but because of that, it's tough to see Collins and Wojo staying on as associate coaches with the younger Stevens at the helm. Jeff Capel also seems likely to take off. All 3 of those guys are more than capable of being the head guys at any number of schools and losing those 3 guys plus Coach K would be a massive hit to the program, and our recruiting. I dunno, no matter who we hire, our assistants already have such respect and name recognition by themselves, that it would be almost impossible to find someone who could command the amount of respect that it would take to keep them all on as assistants.

Maybe Johnny Dawkins? :cool: In 10 years or so, I'm sure Johnny will be "ready", especially with his experience at Stanford.

[throatybeard]

It's interesting to me how people's working assumptions about timeframe have changed, and suddenly we're talking about Krzyzewski coaching to an age 75 or age 80 season, as though that's pretty likely. Two years ago, in the conversations about career win totals, particularly in ACC games, we had our fingers crossed he'd go to 70. Hell, in 1995, Mickie might have forced him out at age 47-48.

Keep in mind, Dawkins turns fifty next year. If Krzyzewski coaches to 2026-27, Dawkins is medicare-eligible at the end of his first season, in 2027-28. (Under current rules). Hell, Collins and Wojo would be in their 50s. My son will be matriculating at that year Truman State or Mizzou, because Duke will cost at least $300K for four years of Ugrad by then.

A lot of this is getting kind of out there. But it will have to do with how young and "up and coming" the successor is, and how much the AD values that. I'm not sure a 65yo Dawkins makes the cut for who you want to man the helm for a long while. Bill Guthridge was "only" 60 when he took over for El Deano.

I've got to think if K stays around in these super-longevity scenario ways, Stevens is already ensconced in the job he jumped for sometime between now and 2027.

2027?

[duke09hms]

Maybe Johnny Dawkins? :cool: In 10 years or so, I'm sure Johnny will be "ready", especially with his experience at Stanford.

It depends on how well he does at Stanford. This year and next year are make-or-break years for Johnny D.

[throatybeard]

Maybe Johnny Dawkins? :cool: In 10 years or so, I'm sure Johnny will be "ready", especially with his experience at Stanford.

In ten years or so, Dawkins will be turning sixty. Sixty!

You can do this the Dean Smith way, and hand it off to your long-time assistant, but with the understanding that he won't be around that long either. Or you can go young and hope you have a guy for a career.

I'm sounding more ageist than I intend to.

[gep]

Well... as posters above mentioned... JD will be "old", but so will Chris and Wojo. So, maybe for a few years, they get their last "curtain call"... all 3 or 4 of them. Then, get a new, good, young coach for the next few decades. After all, in the next 10 years, we may not yet have seen the "next Coach K"... :cool:

[Olympic Fan]

I believe Few deserves a ton of respect, if not buzz, for the job he has done at Gonzaga. He has made the tournament in all of the 13 years he has been head coach. Even Ol Roy can't say that about his program, though few (pun intended) can. He hasn't gotten over that sweet sixteen hump that would give him more buzz, but that is an amazing record for a mid-major, or any program. Kudos to him if he is happy where he is having built one of the top programs in the country, even without a big football TV contract.

I respect the job Few has done, but keep in mind, he inherited a program that had already taken off under Don Monson. It was Monson who led Gonzaga to the Elite Eight in 1999 ... establishing a high water mark that his successor hasn't been able to match.

When Few took over, Gonzaga was already the dominant program in that conference. He deserves credit for keeping it there. But he hasn't built a midmajor superpower out of nothing like Brad Stevens has done at Butler.

PS I don't think the buzz over Few has exactly died -- he's mostly squelched it by turning down a number of attractive jobs -- both in the Northwest and elsewhere over the last decade. He' made it clear that he's not looking to leave.

[throatybeard]

Few ain't no spring chicken neither. He turns fifty next week. Like I said, are you hiring a short-term steward (in ten years), or are you trying to get another career guy?

[camion]

If you're going for a young guy I propose Tyler Thornton. He should be about ready in 202x.

[OldPhiKap]

If you're going for a young guy I propose Tyler Thornton. He should be about ready in 202x.

"Son, coach Singler is on the hologram for you"

[licc85]

"Son, coach Singler is on the hologram for you"
Eh . . good thought, but Singler's too quiet to be an effective coach. He was always more of a lead by example kinda guy.


If you're going for a young guy I propose Tyler Thornton. He should be about ready in 202x.

On the other hand, I agree 110% here, I think Tyler is going to be a fantastic coach one day. He's the best leader on the team, and honestly, I'd be shocked if he wasn't an assistant at Duke within the next 10 years.

[CDu]

Well... as posters above mentioned... JD will be "old", but so will Chris and Wojo. So, maybe for a few years, they get their last "curtain call"... all 3 or 4 of them. Then, get a new, good, young coach for the next few decades. After all, in the next 10 years, we may not yet have seen the "next Coach K"... :cool:

Wojo would only be 46 in 10 years. That's not terribly old. He'd presumably have 20-30 years of coaching in him at that point if he works out as a coach. Of course, the question would be whether or not he's actually a capable head coach, as he may or may not have any head coaching experience at that point.

Collins would be 48 in 10 years. So he, too, would have plenty of years left. But he'd presumably have the same inexperience questions as Wojo.

Dawkins is 11 years older than Collins and 13 years older than Wojo. That's a substantial age gap. You're looking at maybe 10-15 years with Dawkins.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe 10-15 years is sufficient time for another young coach to emerge. Maybe there's a guy in the Coach K tree that hasn't yet arrived that would be ready in 20 years? If so, a shorter-term guy like Dawkins might make sense. You just never know.

[OldPhiKap]

Wojo would only be 46 in 10 years..

46 is young, and I'll fight the whippersnapper who says otherwise.

Don't reach, Youngblood.

[gam7]

46 is young, and I'll fight the whippersnapper who says otherwise.

Don't reach, Youngblood.

This coming from self-dubbed "Old" PhiKap.

[OldPhiKap]

This coming from self-dubbed "Old" PhiKap.

Sometimes it ain't the years, it's the miles.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sometimes it ain't the years, it's the miles.

True. Grant Hill lives by that moto.

[cptnflash]

Every time I watch Brad Stevens on the sidelines and see how hard his teams play for him I can't help but think that when Coach K retires after the 2026-2027 season we should seriously consider him as a replacement. He just seems like he could be a 30 year guy.

This is one recruiting battle that we absolutely have to win. Fortunately the Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, and Indiana jobs appear to be locked up for a while, I can't imagine Stevens in Syracuse, and UCLA is so messed up that it's hard to call that a high level job any more. That leaves Chapel Hill as our main elite-level rival for Mr. Stevens' services. Although Ol Roy is younger, I'm starting to get this feeling that he might not be around all that much longer, so they might have a leg up timing wise. Hopefully they're too dumb to go after Stevens and decide to give the job to some UNC lifer. Actually, given their absurd allegiance to strategies that were cutting edge three decades ago, I think that's pretty likely. So after talking myself through it, I think Stevens is ours for the taking. So it's all good... whenever Coach decides to hang it up, we should have a few more decades of dominance still ahead.

[uh_no]

This is one recruiting battle that we absolutely have to win. Fortunately the Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, and Indiana jobs appear to be locked up for a while, I can't imagine Stevens in Syracuse, and UCLA is so messed up that it's hard to call that a high level job any more. That leaves Chapel Hill as our main elite-level rival for Mr. Stevens' services. Although Ol Roy is younger, I'm starting to get this feeling that he might not be around all that much longer, so they might have a leg up timing wise. Hopefully they're too dumb to go after Stevens and decide to give the job to some UNC lifer. Actually, given their absurd allegiance to strategies that were cutting edge three decades ago, I think that's pretty likely. So after talking myself through it, I think Stevens is ours for the taking. So it's all good... whenever Coach decides to hang it up, we should have a few more decades of dominance still ahead.

Is it so out of the realm of possibility that Coach Stevens stays at butler?

[sporthenry]

This is one recruiting battle that we absolutely have to win. Fortunately the Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, and Indiana jobs appear to be locked up for a while, I can't imagine Stevens in Syracuse, and UCLA is so messed up that it's hard to call that a high level job any more. That leaves Chapel Hill as our main elite-level rival for Mr. Stevens' services. Although Ol Roy is younger, I'm starting to get this feeling that he might not be around all that much longer, so they might have a leg up timing wise. Hopefully they're too dumb to go after Stevens and decide to give the job to some UNC lifer. Actually, given their absurd allegiance to strategies that were cutting edge three decades ago, I think that's pretty likely. So after talking myself through it, I think Stevens is ours for the taking. So it's all good... whenever Coach decides to hang it up, we should have a few more decades of dominance still ahead.

To be honest, I'm not so sure that K would want Stevens. He has built a Duke family which is part of the draw of Duke. There are plenty of recruiting battles which seemed to be helped by the Duke family and I'm sure some on the inside can point to more. But you had Doug Collins speaking well of Duke and Chris to Doc when Austin reopened his decision. You also had Johnny Dawkins ties to Nolan (which started in the NBA) but certainly extended to Duke. I think a lot of recruits are drawn to this program and are aided by players like Wojo and Collins being able to speak from first hand experience what it is like to play at Duke under K.

I know we rehash this time and again and Stevens really is an amazing coach but one would have to think that K will have an unusual amount of influence on the next coach. Bringing in Stevens would probably force out most if not all of the current staff and we have 3-4 coaches already with ties to Duke. You have Dawkins (who will hopefully make that big step at Stanford this year), Collins and Wojo who have been linked to numerous jobs and Capel who sort of got hosed at OU. I'm sure once K steps down, you'll probably see whoever gets passed over move on but with Stevens, you seem to be throwing out all that K has done save for make the Duke name.

[oldnavy]

To be honest, I'm not so sure that K would want Stevens. He has built a Duke family which is part of the draw of Duke. There are plenty of recruiting battles which seemed to be helped by the Duke family and I'm sure some on the inside can point to more. But you had Doug Collins speaking well of Duke and Chris to Doc when Austin reopened his decision. You also had Johnny Dawkins ties to Nolan (which started in the NBA) but certainly extended to Duke. I think a lot of recruits are drawn to this program and are aided by players like Wojo and Collins being able to speak from first hand experience what it is like to play at Duke under K.

I know we rehash this time and again and Stevens really is an amazing coach but one would have to think that K will have an unusual amount of influence on the next coach. Bringing in Stevens would probably force out most if not all of the current staff and we have 3-4 coaches already with ties to Duke. You have Dawkins (who will hopefully make that big step at Stanford this year), Collins and Wojo who have been linked to numerous jobs and Capel who sort of got hosed at OU. I'm sure once K steps down, you'll probably see whoever gets passed over move on but with Stevens, you seem to be throwing out all that K has done save for make the Duke name.

The one quality that you here consistently about K is his honesty. I am certain he will have a/the say in naming his successor. The questions is who he honestly thinks will be the best choice among those available?

[OldPhiKap]

Is it so out of the realm of possibility that Coach Stevens stays at butler?

No, it is not. But he will get some tempting offers before all is said and done.

It would take a special person to turn down the grand institutions and stay loyal to the place that gave him his start. Brad may be that guy, I do not know.


And as to the question of Brad at UNC, well -- IC has threads similar to our in that regards. I think they tried the grand family experiment and, after Doherty went down in flames, have had that fever broken.