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MarkD83
12-13-2012, 12:27 PM
Here is a quote from the Minor Quibbles article:

"Marshall Plumlee is going make his living near the basket, and he’s got a quick way to get minutes on this team: hit the boards. Hard."

This would be an awesome improvement to the team if Marshall took as his goal to "hit the boards hard"...however, he first needs to grow a beard.

Kedsy
12-13-2012, 02:14 PM
Here is a quote from the Minor Quibbles article:

"Marshall Plumlee is going make his living near the basket, and he’s got a quick way to get minutes on this team: hit the boards. Hard."

This would be an awesome improvement to the team if Marshall took as his goal to "hit the boards hard"...however, he first needs to grow a beard.

As has been discussed in other threads, it's unlikely Marshall and Mason will play much at the same time, because neither is an optimal college PF. If that's the case, Marshall will at most see the 6 or 7 minutes when Mason's not in the game (minutes that Josh is seeing now). If that's the case, I don't see how it can be such an awesome improvement to the team, beard or not.

If Marshall does manage to eke out 5 or so minutes in relief of Ryan in addition to the 6 or 7 in relief of Mason (giving Marshall a total of 11 or 12 mpg, which would appear to be his ceiling this season), then if he's a fabulous rebounder it might help a bit more, but still it will only add up to a couple extra rebounds per game, which to me at least doesn't sound like a particularly earth shattering improvement for the team.

azzefkram
12-13-2012, 02:32 PM
If that's the case, I don't see how it can be such an awesome improvement to the team, beard or not.


Kedsy your posts are often well thought out but you do have a glaring weakness with respect to the importance of facial hair in college basketball. There are a number of advanced metrics showing the link between defensive rebounding prowess and beard length. Gasaway had a white paper (unfortunately behind the pay wall) that basically proved that the Fu Manchu will improve offensive rebounding by 2 to 3 per game. I really wish you'd research some more before making such a cavalier dismissal.

Kedsy
12-13-2012, 02:34 PM
Kedsy your posts are often well thought out but you do have a glaring weakness with respect to the importance of facial hair in college basketball. There are a number of advanced metrics showing the link between defensive rebounding prowess and beard length. Gasaway had a white paper (unfortunately behind the pay wall) that basically proved that the Fu Manchu will improve offensive rebounding by 2 to 3 per game. I really wish you'd research some more before making such a cavalier dismissal.

Yeah, my bad. Sorry. ;)

oldnavy
12-13-2012, 04:17 PM
As has been discussed in other threads, it's unlikely Marshall and Mason will play much at the same time, because neither is an optimal college PF. If that's the case, Marshall will at most see the 6 or 7 minutes when Mason's not in the game (minutes that Josh is seeing now). If that's the case, I don't see how it can be such an awesome improvement to the team, beard or not.

If Marshall does manage to eke out 5 or so minutes in relief of Ryan in addition to the 6 or 7 in relief of Mason (giving Marshall a total of 11 or 12 mpg, which would appear to be his ceiling this season), then if he's a fabulous rebounder it might help a bit more, but still it will only add up to a couple extra rebounds per game, which to me at least doesn't sound like a particularly earth shattering improvement for the team.


I think working Marshall into the lineup is a GREAT problem to have if he is in fact as good as the coaching staff talked him up (which I am sure he is or they wouldn't have said it).

I could see having Ryan, Mason and Marshall in the front-court (each have a different skill set), and Cook/TT and Seth/Sulaimon in the back-court for some minutes (especially if we need to rest Seth's shins)...

I guess it will depend to some degree on the match-ups with the other team and how things are going.

I am excited to get MP3 "back"!!

Kedsy
12-13-2012, 04:20 PM
I am excited to get MP3 "back"!!

Oh, so am I. I was just saying I don't know that he's going to be the big solution to our rebounding deficiencies, that's all.

Luther
12-13-2012, 04:32 PM
I like Rivers but Sulaimon is a much better player in my opinion. He is a better shooter,defender, passer, rebounder and I do believe has just as much ability to drive the ball. With that being said he will be a better pro as well. Skys the limit for Sheed!

toooskies
12-13-2012, 04:38 PM
It's unlikely Marshall and Mason will play much at the same time

Do we expect Marshall to be a significantly different player than Miles? I don't.

Did Mason play reasonably well while Miles was on the floor last year? Yes, he did.

Not that I've ever seen Marshall play, so I don't know how well he'd play beside Mason. But there's probably the same potential there as with Miles, albeit with some inexperience on Marshall's side.

I expect Marshall's minutes to only be limited by how well he plays. He certainly doesn't need to crack the rotation for the team to play well.

CDu
12-13-2012, 04:45 PM
Do we expect Marshall to be a significantly different player than Miles? I don't.

I'd expect Marshall to be less athletic than Miles, who was absolutely off the charts as an athlete. That matters. As does the fact that Miles had 3+ years of experience in the Duke system, whereas Marshall has 1+.


Not that I've ever seen Marshall play, so I don't know how well he'd play beside Mason. But there's probably the same potential there as with Miles, albeit with some inexperience on Marshall's side.

For the athleticism reasons above and the inexperience (as you note), I don't know that this is true.

It is true that Marshall's minutes will be determined by how well he plays. But the hurdle for him is much higher than it was for Miles last year, given that (a) Mason is playing much better than last year and (b) Kelly is playing much better than last year (especially defensively). So in order to get anything more than the leftover (~6-12) minutes, Marshall is going to have to play REALLY well.

superdave
12-13-2012, 09:31 PM
Here is a quote from the Minor Quibbles article:

"Marshall Plumlee is going make his living near the basket, and he’s got a quick way to get minutes on this team: hit the boards. Hard."

This would be an awesome improvement to the team if Marshall took as his goal to "hit the boards hard"...however, he first needs to grow a beard.

Was it just me or did the DBR write up say rebounding is not a priority under Coach K yet Marshall could grab playing time by rebounding. Hard.?

A confused article. If its not a priority then how do you earn pt on a secondary priority?

It's not that we need to rebound better to increase our upside as a team. But we do need to rebound better to decrease our downside.

nocilla
12-14-2012, 08:31 AM
I'd expect Marshall to be less athletic than Miles, who was absolutely off the charts as an athlete. That matters. As does the fact that Miles had 3+ years of experience in the Duke system, whereas Marshall has 1+.

Well Mason and Miles played alongside each other in the 2010 season, sometimes subbing in together for Zoubs and Lance. At that point, they only had 1+ years of experience, combined. Of course neither of them, at that time, were the impact players they eventually became, but I don't see how Marshall being in the game takes away from Mason's impact. Possibly it helps Mason because Marshall's defender may be less likely to provide help defense because of the 7 footer's perceived offensive rebound potential. I know Kelly helps spread the floor with his perimeter game. But with Mason's passing abilities, in a double team situation, I can see a couple of those kick-outs to Kelly going to Marshall at the rim instead. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking...

CDu
12-15-2012, 09:48 AM
Well Mason and Miles played alongside each other in the 2010 season, sometimes subbing in together for Zoubs and Lance. At that point, they only had 1+ years of experience, combined. Of course neither of them, at that time, were the impact players they eventually became, but I don't see how Marshall being in the game takes away from Mason's impact. Possibly it helps Mason because Marshall's defender may be less likely to provide help defense because of the 7 footer's perceived offensive rebound potential. I know Kelly helps spread the floor with his perimeter game. But with Mason's passing abilities, in a double team situation, I can see a couple of those kick-outs to Kelly going to Marshall at the rim instead. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking...

I think that's wishful thinking. For one, I think the downside of having another player closer to the basket will hurt Mason (extra help defense) rather than help. Why would a defender be more likely to stay at home on Marshall (as a rebounder) rather than stay at home on Kelly (as a shooter)?

As for the 2010 team, that was a different offensive setup. The team basically used their forwards purely as screeners for the three perimeter scoring threats. So it didn't matter that they shared the court because they didn't run much post offense (at least not with their bigs). This team's offense is much different than last year's (or 2010's) because we are running more post offense.

I think we'll see a couple of minutes per game with both Plumlees. But I think we'll see a whole lot more of Kelly and a Plumlee (with the vast majority of that being Marshall).

Jderf
12-15-2012, 10:49 AM
As for the 2010 team, that was a different offensive setup. The team basically used their forwards purely as screeners for the three perimeter scoring threats.

Wait, I don't get it. You seem to be implying that the bigs on every other Duke team have been doing something other than setting screens. :D

CDu
12-15-2012, 12:22 PM
Wait, I don't get it. You seem to be implying that the bigs on every other Duke team have been doing something other than setting screens. :D

Technically, I'm only implying that the bigs on this team are doing something other than setting screens. Though it is also true that many other Duke teams have had bigs that had a larger role than setting screens.