The Remaining Unbeatens (ongoing discussion)

[gam7]

Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Indiana 1 1 9-0 B10 12/15 - Butler (55)
Florida 2 5 7-0 SEC 12/15 - @Arizona (13)
Cuse 4 4 8-0 BE 12/15 - Canisius (148)
Duke 5 2 9-0 ACC NA
Mich. 8 3 9-0 B10 12/11 - Binghampton (344); 12/15 - @WVU (65)
Arizona 13 8 7-0 P12 12/15 - Florida (2)
Cincy 16 11 9-0 BE 12/15 - @Marshall (144)
Wich St 23 23 9-0 MVC 12/13 - @Tennessee (56)
Ill. 25 10 10-0 B10 12/11 - Norfolk St. (236) ; 12/16 - Eastern Kentucky (189)
UNM 37 17 10-0 MWC 12/15 - New Mexico St. (100)
Wyom. 59 10-0 MWC NA
Charl. 87 9-0 A10 12/14 - @Miami (49); 12/16 - @Kennesaw St. (325)
LSU 107 5-0 SEC 12/11 - Chattanooga (300); 12/14 - @Boise St. (72)
EKU 189 9-0 OVC 12/16 - @Illinois (25)

We've got 14 undefeated teams left. Just to add to Tommy's summary, here are the updated numbers and complete upcoming schedule for The Unbeaten. A few notes:

Only two unbeatens failed to garner a single vote in the AP Top 25 - Charlotte and Eastern Kentucky.

Our conference breakdown is now as follows:

3 Big 10
2 Big East
2 SEC
2 Mountain West
1 each for A10, ACC, Pac 12, Missouri Valley, Ohio Valley.

As you might imagine, this is a light basketball week with finals for most schools. 10 of the 14 teams have just a single game this week, or are idle. As noted by others, the clear game of the week pits Florida against Arizona in Tucson next Saturday. The runner-up for game of the week, also on Saturday, is Indiana vs. Butler.

The other matchup of unbeatens (in addition to Arizona-Florida) is Illinois-Eastern Kentucky. EKU is undefeated, but has a non-conference strength of schedule according to Pomeroy that is 346th most difficult (out of 347 D1 teams). The highest Pom-rated team they have beaten is NC Central, at 234. Needless to say, it would be a monumental upset if EKU wins at Illinois.

Two other games this week feature unbeaten teams playing on the road against teams ranked higher than them according to Pomeroy. Charlotte visits Miami (49), a team which has already knocked off Michigan State at home. And LSU travels to Boise State (72). Both of those games are on Friday night.

[gam7]

Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Indiana 1 1 9-0 B10 12/15 - Butler (55)
Florida 2 5 7-0 SEC 12/15 - @Arizona (13)
Cuse 4 4 8-0 BE 12/15 - Canisius (148)
Duke 5 2 9-0 ACC NA
Mich. 8 3 9-0 B10 12/11 - Binghampton (344); 12/15 - @WVU (65)
Arizona 13 8 7-0 P12 12/15 - Florida (2)
Cincy 16 11 9-0 BE 12/15 - @Marshall (144)
Wich St 23 23 9-0 MVC 12/13 - @Tennessee (56)
Ill. 25 10 10-0 B10 12/11 - Norfolk St. (236) ; 12/16 - Eastern Kentucky (189)
UNM 37 17 10-0 MWC 12/15 - New Mexico St. (100)
Wyom. 59 10-0 MWC NA
Charl. 87 9-0 A10 12/14 - @Miami (49); 12/16 - @Kennesaw St. (325)
LSU 107 5-0 SEC 12/11 - Chattanooga (300); 12/14 - @Boise St. (72)
EKU 189 9-0 OVC 12/16 - @Illinois (25)

We've got 14 undefeated teams left. Just to add to Tommy's summary, here are the updated numbers and complete upcoming schedule for The Unbeaten. A few notes:

Only two unbeatens failed to garner a single vote in the AP Top 25 - Charlotte and Eastern Kentucky.

Our conference breakdown is now as follows:

3 Big 10
2 Big East
2 SEC
2 Mountain West
1 each for A10, ACC, Pac 12, Missouri Valley, Ohio Valley.

As you might imagine, this is a light basketball week with finals for most schools. 10 of the 14 teams have just a single game this week, or are idle. As noted by others, the clear game of the week pits Florida against Arizona in Tucson next Saturday. The runner-up for game of the week, also on Saturday, is Indiana vs. Butler.

The other matchup of unbeatens (in addition to Arizona-Florida) is Illinois-Eastern Kentucky. EKU is undefeated, but has a non-conference strength of schedule according to Pomeroy that is 346th most difficult (out of 347 D1 teams). The highest Pom-rated team they have beaten is NC Central, at 234. Needless to say, it would be a monumental upset if EKU wins at Illinois.

Two other games this week feature unbeaten teams playing on the road against teams ranked higher than them according to Pomeroy. Charlotte visits Miami (49), a team which has already knocked off Michigan State at home. And LSU travels to Boise State (72). Both of those games are on Friday night.


It's been a very quiet week so far, but there's a nice mid-major vs. power conference match-up tonight with Wichita State (Pom 23) playing Tennessee (Pom 58) in Knoxville. As mentioned above, Friday and Saturday nights have the potential to wreak havoc with this list as well.

[uh_no]

It's been a very quiet week so far, but there's a nice mid-major vs. power conference match-up tonight with Wichita State (Pom 23) playing Tennessee (Pom 58) in Knoxville. As mentioned above, Friday and Saturday nights have the potential to wreak havoc with this list as well.

and another one bites the dust. tenn 69-60 over wichita st

[Olympic Fan]

Down to 13 with Wichita's fall ...

Two more chances tonight (Friday):

Charlotte at Miami

LSU at Boise State

Both unbeatens on the road against dangerous teams.

Several more in jeopardy Saturday -- at least two more undefeateds fall ... on Saturday, Arizona and Florida meet ... on Sunday Eastern Kentucky is at Illinois.

Looks like it will be single digits my Monday.

[tommy]

Down to 13 with Wichita's fall ...

And as music fans of a certain type know, As Falls Wichita . . .

[JBDuke]

And as music fans of a certain type know, As Falls Wichita . . .

... so falls Wichita Falls. (IIRC)

The Florida-Arizona game should be a barn burner. As Duke fans of a certain age know, those Tucson games can be - interesting - for prominent out of conference teams. If they still get their refs from the same pool that worked the Duke-Arizona game in 1988, they'll make sure the Cats win.

I've been pretty impressed with what I've seen from Florida so far. Haven't seen the Cats yet, so I'm looking forward to it.

[Olympic Fan]

Miami destroyed Charlotte, reducing the unbeatens to 12.

Unbeaten LSU locked in a tight first-half battle with Boise State.

[Ben1029]

LSU lost to Boise by 19.

[Bob Green]

Halfway through the 1st half, Butler is hanging tough with Indiana, 17-16.

[Bob Green]

Indiana 37, Butler 33. The pace picked up toward the end of the half, which favored Indiana. Butler hit a big 3-pointer on their last possession. I am looking forward to an exciting 2nd half.

[Bob Green]

Butler 61, Indiana 59 with 5:42 left. A real barnburner!

[Olympic Fan]

10 unbeatens left after Butler tops Indiana in OT.

One more unbeaten sure to go down tonight when Arizona and Florida meet. There could be another one or two more ... both Michigan and New Mexico are on the road against decent teams.

And one more definitely goes down Sunday when Eastern Kentucky is at Illinous.

[1 24 90]

10 unbeatens left after Butler tops Indiana in OT.

One more unbeaten sure to go down tonight when Arizona and Florida meet. There could be another one or two more ... both Michigan and New Mexico are on the road against decent teams.

And one more definitely goes down Sunday when Eastern Kentucky is at Illinous.

Michigan WVU is in Brooklyn and New Mexico is hosting NMSU in The Pit.

[uh_no]

huge chokejob by florida right there.....another one bites the dust


guess it was just arizona's day.

[Olympic Fan]

Amazing day for Arizona sports ... the football team falls behind 21-0 and trails almost the entire way against Nevada in the New Mexico Bowl. They score 14 points in the last 52 seconds to win the game 49-48.

The basketball team trails the entire way, rallies in the final minute and pulls out a one-point victory with a basket with 7 seconds left.

Wow.

Nine unbeatens left ... and one more will fall tomorrow with EKU plays Illinois.

PS My bad on the location of the Michigan-WVU and UNM-NMSU games ... but New Mexico, which won at home to stay unbeaten, does have to platy AT New Mexico State this week in a weird bit of scheduling.

[uh_no]

Amazing day for Arizona sports ... the football team falls behind 21-0 and trails almost the entire way against Nevada in the New Mexico Bowl. They score 14 points in the last 52 seconds to win the game 49-48.

The basketball team trails the entire way, rallies in the final minute and pulls out a one-point victory with a basket with 7 seconds left.

Wow.

Nine unbeatens left ... and one more will fall tomorrow with EKU plays Illinois.

PS My bad on the location of the Michigan-WVU and UNM-NMSU games ... but New Mexico, which won at home to stay unbeaten, does have to platy AT New Mexico State this week in a weird bit of scheduling.

I saw that....what is that about? playing a home and away series in a single week is usually not how it works!

[Bluedog]

huge chokejob by florida right there.....another one bites the dust


guess it was just arizona's day.

Yeah crazy game. All Florida had to do was not turn it over and hit some free throws. Couldn't inbound the ball like three times in a row and then Boynton (hard to believe he's a senior... seems like we were recruiting him not long ago and I thought people were thinking he'd be in the league right now) misses the front end of a one and one that could have put them up three. I think he missed a free throw just a couple minutes earlier too- didn't have a very good game. Still, after watching that, I think Florida is the more dangerous team come March. They look very solid to me-their PF is built like a football player. Man, that guy is huge. Good win by AZ- Florida should dominate the SEC though. The SEC is terrible and had a horrible day with some headscratching losses. Although the Pac 12 is not very good either. Fun games today.

[gam7]

huge chokejob by florida right there.....another one bites the dust


guess it was just arizona's day.

Arizona was down 6 with a minute left and mark Lyons took an ill-advised, challenged NBA 3 right out of a timeout. Looked like that might be it. Then, turnover, 2 FTs, turnover, layup, turnover, 1 of 2 FTs, Boynton 90% ft shooter) misses front end of 1 and 1 in scene looking like a poor mans' Cameron-with-Haywood/Cota-at-FT-line-1998, layup. Game. For 39 minutes, Florida looked better. But between their bowl game win, and this basketball game, it may have just been arizona's day.

[subzero02]

Big time choke by the gators... Terrible display of poise and ball control in the final minute

[uh_no]

EKY and Illinois goin at it today...another unbeaten will go down (and i'd bet a decent amount of money it will be eastern kentucky...)

[uh_no]

illinois up 25-20 at the half in an old fashioned shootout

[Olympic Fan]

Illinois won, dropped one more team from the ranks of the unbeaten.

That leaves it at eight unbeatens left.

[uh_no]

Illinois won, dropped one more team from the ranks of the unbeaten.

That leaves it at eight unbeatens left.

for those not keeping score:

duke (wed cornell, th Elon)
syracuse (mo detroid sat temple)
michigan (th eastern michigan)
arizona (tu oral robert, sat East tennessee state)
cincinnati (wed xavier, sat wright state)
new mexico (wed NMST, sat sdst)
illinois (sat missouri)
wyoming (tue denver, fri UCSB)

so pretty much a bunch of stinkers this week with a few good games

syracuse and temple should be a decent game
illinois and missour is the other good one

and of course there is a chance of fist fights in the cinci xavier game, so who knows which way that one will go.

also of note, cinci and and NM play a week from thursday, so another guaranteed loss for one of them

[Orange&BlackSheep]

And as music fans of a certain type know, As Falls Wichita . . .

a Pat Metheny reference ... yet another reason to love DBR ...

[gam7]

I gave this thread a more general title so that we can keep the discussion on this topic all in one thread.

With good comments from folks in the most recent Unbeaten thread, and with Al Featherston's front page piece, plenty has been said about the remaining undefeated teams coming into this week, so this will be brief. Here is the weekly table.


Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Duke 4 1 9-0 ACC 12/19 - Cornell (237); 12/20 - Elon (165)
Cuse 5 3 9-0 BE 12/17 - Detroit (121); 12/22 - Temple (61)
Mich. 8 2 11-0 B10 12/20 - E. Michigan (270)
Arizona 13 4 8-0 P12 12/18 - Oral Roberts (128); 12/22 - @E. Tenn. St. (259)
Cincy 17 11 10-0 BE 12/19 - Xavier (82); 12/22 - Wright St. (160)
Illinois 28 10 12-0 B10 12/22 - @Missouri (32)
UNM 27 16 11-0 MWC 12/19 - @New Mexico St. (101); 12/22 - S. Dakota St. (118)
Wyom. 57 29 10-0 MWC 12/18 - Denver (84); 12/21 - UCSB (182)

The two best matchups of the week are Illinois @ Missouri (Saturday) and and the annual Cincy-Xavier grudge match (honorable mention to New Mexico vs. New Mexico State (again) and Syracuse vs. Temple). The Mountain West, Big 10 and Big East each still has two undefeated teams. The ACC and Pac 12 each has one team on the list.

Only tangentially related, the AP rankings are pretty interesting this week. Surprised at how high Arizona rose and that Indiana fell all the way to 6th.

[DukieInBrasil]

I gave this thread a more general title so that we can keep the discussion on this topic all in one thread.

With good comments from folks in the most recent Unbeaten thread, and with Al Featherston's front page piece, plenty has been said about the remaining undefeated teams coming into this week, so this will be brief. Here is the weekly table.


Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Duke 4 1 9-0 ACC 12/19 - Cornell (237); 12/20 - Elon (165)
Cuse 5 3 9-0 BE 12/17 - Detroit (121); 12/22 - Temple (61)
Mich. 8 2 11-0 B10 12/20 - E. Michigan (270)
Arizona 13 4 8-0 P12 12/18 - Oral Roberts (128); 12/22 - @E. Tenn. St. (259)
Cincy 17 11 10-0 BE 12/19 - Xavier (82); 12/22 - Wright St. (160)
Illinois 28 10 12-0 B10 12/22 - @Missouri (32)
UNM 27 16 11-0 MWC 12/19 - @New Mexico St. (101); 12/22 - S. Dakota St. (118)
Wyom. 57 29 10-0 MWC 12/18 - Denver (84); 12/21 - UCSB (182)

The two best matchups of the week are Illinois @ Missouri (Saturday) and and the annual Cincy-Xavier grudge match (honorable mention to New Mexico vs. New Mexico State (again) and Syracuse vs. Temple). The Mountain West, Big 10 and Big East each still has two undefeated teams. The ACC and Pac 12 each has one team on the list.

Only tangentially related, the AP rankings are pretty interesting this week. Surprised at how high Arizona rose and that Indiana fell all the way to 6th.

Voters seem reluctant to drop #1 ranked teams until they lose, but perhaps voters were not all that impressed by IU's victories prior to their loss. Butler is not a bad loss, so i don't see that losing to them would in and of itself have caused them to fall 5 spots.

[watzone]

Here is a pretty good read from Tom Rubenson on Duke and their undefeated starts - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/12/bdn-on-dukes-hot-starts-through-the-years/ While it's just a matter of time before a defeat, it sure is nice while it lasts.

[MarkD83]

The significant goal for Duke in the next few weeks is to COMPLETE their non-conference schedule undefeated. Unlike past years there is no non-conference game in mid-Feb for Duke.

Not to get ahead of ourselves, but come NCAA seeding time no losses to teams outside your own conference looks pretty good.

[gep]

The significant goal for Duke in the next few weeks is to COMPLETE their non-conference schedule undefeated. Unlike past years there is no non-conference game in mid-Feb for Duke.

Also... I missed this earlier, but this season is an 18-game ACC schedule?

[uh_no]

Also... I missed this earlier, but this season is an 18-game ACC schedule?

yerp

[loran16]

Voters seem reluctant to drop #1 ranked teams until they lose, but perhaps voters were not all that impressed by IU's victories prior to their loss. Butler is not a bad loss, so i don't see that losing to them would in and of itself have caused them to fall 5 spots.

Remember - Butler isn't a bad loss, but the losses of other 1 loss teams are better than Butler:
Louisville - lost to #1 Duke on a Neutral Floor.
Indiana - lost to #18 Butler on a Neutral Floor with 3/4 of the arena wearing Indiana colors.

There's a difference there.

[Olympic Fan]

A couple of interesting games this weekend.

Missouri and unbeaten Illinous meet in St. Louis ... and Pomeroy actually rates Missouri as the favorite.

And there's a good chance that Miami faces unbeaten Arizona Sunday in the second round of the Diamond Head Classic in Honolulu (both have to win first-rfound games Saturday to set it up -- Miami plays host Hawaii; Arizona gets East Tennessee State) Miami has been playing awfully well since Durand Scott returned.

Also a possible hurdle for ubeaten Syracuse, which faces Temple.

[JasonEvans]

Also a possible hurdle for ubeaten Syracuse, which faces Temple.

Well, that hurdle may not be all that high. Temple was looking like a pretty good team when they had a victory over Villanova and only one loss on their record (to us). But, just a few days ago, Temple lost to Canisius. Yikes! Canisuis, in fairness, is fairly good this year. They only have 2 losses, though one of those losses is to Syracuse... by 25 points.

Now, I know the transitive property is one of the worst ways of predicting sports results, but I still don't see Temple providing all that much of a scare to Syracuse. At least the game is at MSG, not in the Orange Dome.

-Jason "would love to be proven wrong ;) " Evans

[Bob Green]

I watched the 1st half of Carolina/McNeese State game, but I'm changing the channel to Syracuse/Temple for the 2nd half as it is 40-38 Syracuse at the half. Khalif Wyatt has 20 points for Temple.

[timmy c]

...I still don't see Temple providing all that much of a scare to Syracuse. At least the game is at MSG, not in the Orange Dome.

-Jason "would love to be proven wrong ;) " Evans

Temple giving Syracuse more than they can handle. 74-67 Temple.

[uh_no]

Temple giving Syracuse more than they can handle. 74-67 Temple.

rebounding....took down indiana, looking like it might cost syracuse here.

[uh_no]

aaaaaaaaand its gone

temple over syracuse

[timmy c]

rebounding....took down indiana, looking like it might cost syracuse here.

Yup. Temple even tried to give it back with a few missed FT's, but Syracuse couldn't take advantage.

[Bob Green]

Yup. Temple even tried to give it back with a few missed FT's, but Syracuse couldn't take advantage.

DeCosey was 1-5 but he made the one when Temple really needed it. Wyatt was 15-15 and Lee was 11-14. Temple won the game at the charity stripe sinking 29 of 36, while Syracuse was a woeful 19 of 34. The refs were calling a foul on every possession over the last five minutes or so. Coach Boeheim complained at one point, "You're calling fouls before anything happens."

[loran16]

Wyatt and lee combined for over 50 points today for temple. Duke limited them to 6 points each

[timmy c]

DeCosey was 1-5 but he made the one when Temple really needed it. Wyatt was 15-15 and Lee was 11-14. Temple won the game at the charity stripe sinking 29 of 36, while Syracuse was a woeful 19 of 34. The refs were calling a foul on every possession over the last five minutes or so. Coach Boeheim complained at one point, "You're calling fouls before anything happens."

Agreed. But I thought DeCosey's two misses late was a real chance for Syracuse.

[uh_no]

new mexico down 4 at the half to south dakota state

[uh_no]

New mexico just lost to south dakota state, making the attrition count on the day 2


cinci is in a 1 point game with wright state at the moment and illinois plays missouri later....which could
bring the count up to 4.

I don't think Arizona will lose to east tennesse state though......either way, not looking to be a great day for unbeatens....

thank goodness we're off today

[JasonEvans]

Ya'll like the way I did that with Syracuse. Do not doubt my power!!!!

--Jason "of note - I projected Carolina to reach the NCAA tourney today too" Evans

[uh_no]

cinci down 6 at halftime


kinda hope they pull it out so we could be the ones to beat them

[tbyers11]

cinci down 6 at halftime


kinda hope they pull it out so we could be the ones to beat them

I'm confused. When do we play Cincy? Are you mixing up football and basketball? :confused:

[uh_no]

I'm confused. When do we play Cincy? Are you mixing up football and basketball? :confused:

we don't.
yep.

oops :(

[uh_no]

and down goes illinois.....3 down today.....out of 8...


CMON EAST TENNESSEE STATE!!!

[BigWayne]

New mexico just lost to south dakota state, making the attrition count on the day 2




Best part about this one is that SD State had to take a 1220 mile bus ride to get there from Nashville
and then get one of their biggest upsets ever.

New Mexico's next game is at Cincinnati. Maybe they should go on a bus ride.

[gam7]

Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Duke 3 1 11-0 ACC 12/29 - Santa Clara (91)
Mich. 7 2 12-0 B10 12/29 - Cent. Michigan (259)
Arizona 10 3 11-0 P12 12/25 - San Diego St. (24)
Cincy 18 8 12-0 BE 12/27 - New Mexico (38)
Wyom. 39 29 12-0 MWC NA

We're down to 5.

Only four games this week, but a couple of good ones. On Christmas Day, Arizona and San Diego State face off in the finals of the Diamond Head Classic in Hawaii. State is good and generally has a chip on its shoulder with respect to Pac 12 teams.

On Thursday, Cincinnati hosts New Mexico, which was undefeated until last week.

[subzero02]

Arizona impressed me in its win over Miami last night... I don't think they are the 4th best team in the country but they are very good

[uh_no]

Arizona impressed me in its win over Miami last night... I don't think they are the 4th best team in the country but they are very good

Maybe last night, but I'm far from impressed by them over san diego state right now, very shaky on defense...collapse on the ball and leave guys WIDE open for threes and back door cuts

[tommy]

Arizona rallied from 8 down in the second half to nip San Diego State 68-67 in Hawaii tonight. They're for real, folks.

[sporthenry]

Arizona rallied from 8 down in the second half to nip San Diego State 68-67 in Hawaii tonight. They're for real, folks.

Beating SDSU isn't that impressive. I didn't watch the whole game so I guess that could be my problem but SDSU wasn't exactly that impressive. They had no size and for a moment looked like they'd get run out of the gym. I think SDSU could make a decent run but isn't a threat b/c of their lack of size which was exploited by Cuse who had 18 offensive boards.

But beating a team you are supposed to beat doesn't really make them any more real in my books and while they held their own with Florida, they were gift wrapped a game. The Pac 12 is apparently down but I think another team or two will get its act together and UA won't go through unscathed so they probably won't be in the discussion for a #1.

But I'm not that afraid of UA from a talent perspective, they just have big G/F 6'6-6'8 physical types with Hill and Parrom that have given Duke trouble before which is where a Hairston or an Amile comes into play.

[Skitzle]

Beating SDSU isn't that impressive. I didn't watch the whole game so I guess that could be my problem but SDSU wasn't exactly that impressive. They had no size and for a moment looked like they'd get run out of the gym. I think SDSU could make a decent run but isn't a threat b/c of their lack of size which was exploited by Cuse who had 18 offensive boards.

But beating a team you are supposed to beat doesn't really make them any more real in my books and while they held their own with Florida, they were gift wrapped a game. The Pac 12 is apparently down but I think another team or two will get its act together and UA won't go through unscathed so they probably won't be in the discussion for a #1.

But I'm not that afraid of UA from a talent perspective, they just have big G/F 6'6-6'8 physical types with Hill and Parrom that have given Duke trouble before which is where a Hairston or an Amile comes into play.

I'll agree.

Sorry to open old wounds, but comeback wins against UNC or NC State didn't make us for real last year.

I've never watched Arizona play, but a comeback against a Top 50 team doesn't mean much.

[TruBlu]

We should start tracking R.O.T.H (Ranked Opponents of Tar Heels) as a major undefeated team.

Of course, this may not be fair to the other undefeated teams, a R.O.T.H has a far easier schedule.

[sagegrouse]

Sorry to open old wounds, but comeback wins against UNC or NC State didn't make us for real last year.


Certainly speaks for me. After the UNC win, I pinched myself and couldn't feel anything -- I was numb for several days.

sage

[subzero02]

I'll agree.

Sorry to open old wounds, but comeback wins against UNC or NC State didn't make us for real last year.

I've never watched Arizona play, but a comeback against a Top 50 team doesn't mean much.

As I said earlier in this thread, I don't think Arizona is a top 4 team. However, their comeback win against san diego state was pretty impressive. The game winning block should've been yesterday's play of day if it wasn't selected as such by espn... Came out of no where. FYI... Going into this game San diego state was #17 in the coaches poll and they are currently #23 in kenpom; so your claim that they are a top 50 team is a fairly big understatement.

[Saratoga2]

Beating SDSU isn't that impressive. I didn't watch the whole game so I guess that could be my problem but SDSU wasn't exactly that impressive. They had no size and for a moment looked like they'd get run out of the gym. I think SDSU could make a decent run but isn't a threat b/c of their lack of size which was exploited by Cuse who had 18 offensive boards.

But beating a team you are supposed to beat doesn't really make them any more real in my books and while they held their own with Florida, they were gift wrapped a game. The Pac 12 is apparently down but I think another team or two will get its act together and UA won't go through unscathed so they probably won't be in the discussion for a #1.

But I'm not that afraid of UA from a talent perspective, they just have big G/F 6'6-6'8 physical types with Hill and Parrom that have given Duke trouble before which is where a Hairston or an Amile comes into play.

San Diego St was 16th in the coaches poll and Arizona is tied for 3/4. You could say the ACC is down this year with Duke #1, but the only other ACC team in the top 25 is NC State at 25. The Big 10 on the other hand has Michigan (#2), Indiana (#5), Ohio St(#10), Minnesota (#14), Illinois (#15), and Michigan St (#19). The ACC will mainly play each other going forward, so it is hard to see the ACC improving its picture. The question one might have is how closely the ACC/Big 10 series was contested earlier this year. Nevertheless, when it comes to tournament seeding, the ACC may been seen in an unfavorable light.

[sporthenry]

San Diego St was 16th in the coaches poll and Arizona is tied for 3/4. You could say the ACC is down this year with Duke #1, but the only other ACC team in the top 25 is NC State at 25. The Big 10 on the other hand has Michigan (#2), Indiana (#5), Ohio St(#10), Minnesota (#14), Illinois (#15), and Michigan St (#19). The ACC will mainly play each other going forward, so it is hard to see the ACC improving its picture. The question one might have is how closely the ACC/Big 10 series was contested earlier this year. Nevertheless, when it comes to tournament seeding, the ACC may been seen in an unfavorable light.

Well the B1G will probably be a battle of attrition. I think they will beat each other up that you'll probably have 1 sure fire #1 seed and 1-2 others in the running along with Duke, Louisville/Cuse, Mizzou/Florida, and Arizona. But as it stands now, Duke has a better resume than Arizona and Arizona doesn't have another game versus a ranked opponent left. Duke has 2 left and UNC has received more votes in either poll than Oregon and UMD more votes than Colorado. So the ACC will be stronger than the P12 so any loss to a Stanford or UCLA type will hurt Zona.

The one thing which might help Zona though is their win against Miami who many have thought might be one of the best ACC teams and a tough test for Duke.

[ice-9]

Bold prediction...Arizona will be the last team to get that first loss.

Florida, Miami and San Diego State were their stiffest tests and I just don't see anyone in the Pac-12 posing a serious challenge. @UCLA might be the game they finally lose in -- that'll be a tough game as UCLA would've had time to gel and Shabazz to get going -- and that's on March 2.

[Saratoga2]

Well the B1G will probably be a battle of attrition. I think they will beat each other up that you'll probably have 1 sure fire #1 seed and 1-2 others in the running along with Duke, Louisville/Cuse, Mizzou/Florida, and Arizona. But as it stands now, Duke has a better resume than Arizona and Arizona doesn't have another game versus a ranked opponent left. Duke has 2 left and UNC has received more votes in either poll than Oregon and UMD more votes than Colorado. So the ACC will be stronger than the P12 so any loss to a Stanford or UCLA type will hurt Zona.

The one thing which might help Zona though is their win against Miami who many have thought might be one of the best ACC teams and a tough test for Duke.

Duke may take a loss or losses going into the tournament. I suppose it will depend on whether Seth can play at his best along the way and if Ryan plays hard from the getgo in games. But some of us also may discount the importance of Marshall coming into form and of Alex aand Amile making serious contributions as the season wears on.

I agree that Louisville and Florida are teams to watch. Neither may have another loss along the way. Arizona has an easier schedule, but may stumble once before the tournament. Injuries can play a part in qualifications for a #1 seed. I can't see Duke as less than a #2 seed based on our play to date.

[JasonEvans]

I agree that Louisville and Florida are teams to watch. Neither may have another loss along the way. Arizona has an easier schedule, but may stumble once before the tournament.

The notion that Louisville will go unbeaten with road games left against Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, and Notre Dame; as well as home games against Cincy, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt, and Marquete; is almost absurd. If they go through the BEast schedule with only 2 losses, it will be tremendously impressive.

Similarly, while the SEC ain't the BEast, Florida is nowhere near a favorite to win all their games in the conference. They have 2 games with Kentucky and two with Missouri. Mizzu is higher ranked than Florida -- why not talk about their chance of going unbeaten the rest of the way?

Folks, lets get a dose of reality into this conversation, ok? The entire point of this thread is to count down the unbeaten teams as they steadily fall. There is a lesson there... they all will fall at some point. That is just the reality of college hoops. We have not seen a major conference team go unbeaten through the regular season since... ummm... has it been since the Indiana club of the mid-1970s? St Joe's and Cincy both went unbeaten until March in the past 15 years, but they did it in the A-10 and Conf USA. I feel like I must be forgetting someone...

-Jason "some historian help me out here" Evans

[Wander]

Folks, lets get a dose of reality into this conversation, ok? The entire point of this thread is to count down the unbeaten teams as they steadily fall. There is a lesson there... they all will fall at some point. That is just the reality of college hoops. We have not seen a major conference team go unbeaten through the regular season since... ummm... has it been since the Indiana club of the mid-1970s? St Joe's and Cincy both went unbeaten until March in the past 15 years, but they did it in the A-10 and Conf USA. I feel like I must be forgetting someone...


Going undefeated is a once in a lifetime thing, but "once in a lifetime" is more often than never. It will happen again someday. That said, I don't know why anyone is talking about Louisville or especially Florida in this context. Florida's no where near good enough, and Louisville plays way too tough a conference schedule.

Illinois went undefeated until March in 2005. They lost the last regular season game, which was under weird circumstances (road game at Ohio State which was ineligible for the postseason, so basically OSU's national championship game). And that Illinois team wasn't THAT talented, at least for a national championship contender.

[tommy]

The notion that Louisville will go unbeaten with road games left against Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, and Notre Dame; as well as home games against Cincy, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt, and Marquete; is almost absurd. If they go through the BEast schedule with only 2 losses, it will be tremendously impressive.

Similarly, while the SEC ain't the BEast, Florida is nowhere near a favorite to win all their games in the conference. They have 2 games with Kentucky and two with Missouri. Mizzu is higher ranked than Florida -- why not talk about their chance of going unbeaten the rest of the way?

Folks, lets get a dose of reality into this conversation, ok? The entire point of this thread is to count down the unbeaten teams as they steadily fall. There is a lesson there... they all will fall at some point. That is just the reality of college hoops. We have not seen a major conference team go unbeaten through the regular season since... ummm... has it been since the Indiana club of the mid-1970s? St Joe's and Cincy both went unbeaten until March in the past 15 years, but they did it in the A-10 and Conf USA. I feel like I must be forgetting someone...

-Jason "some historian help me out here" Evans

Larry Bird's Indiana State team in 1979 went undefeated the entire year before being beaten in the NCAA title game.

That same year, Alcorn State also went unbeaten, but amazingly (though it was a much smaller field then, but still), were not invited to the tournament.

I think the only other one you're missing is 1991 UNLV. We know what happened to them.

[JasonEvans]

Larry Bird's Indiana State team in 1979 went undefeated the entire year before being beaten in the NCAA title game.

That same year, Alcorn State also went unbeaten, but amazingly (though it was a much smaller field then, but still), were not invited to the tournament.

I think the only other one you're missing is 1991 UNLV. We know what happened to them.

I recalled both Indiana St and UNLV, but was trying to think of major conference teams, seeing as that is what people seem to be thinking about this year -- especially with regards to Arizona and Duke. I had forgotten about that Illinois club that stayed unbeaten that deep in the year. An incredibly balanced team led by Deron Williams.

-Jason "ahhh, memories..." Evans

[sporthenry]

That said, I don't know why anyone is talking about Louisville or especially Florida in this context. Florida's no where near good enough, and Louisville plays way too tough a conference schedule.


I'm not sure how Florida isn't good enough when they had the #3 team on the ropes at their place. Now as some can see, I'm not fan of UA but Florida had that game won.

But in the bigger picture, perhaps I hijacked the thread but I'm more worried about a #1 seed than an undefeated season. So I brought them up in the discussion with UA about being the #1 seed. I think UA will be near the bottom of #1 seed contention and some here are dismissing the P12 prematurely. The P12 actually has some decent teams but not a lot of good teams. It sort of reminds me of the ACC in football or even the ACC in basketball recently.

Teams don't have very good non conferences, come into the season unranked, and if a conference starts with 1 or no teams unranked, than beating up on each other is no longer impressive. Oregon beat UNLV, Oregon State played Kansas tough, UCLA is UCLA, and Stanford doesn't have a signature win but its 4 losses were against tourney teams under 10 points. So these teams aren't great but have a bad night and these teams are more than capable of knocking anyone off which reminds me a lot of FSU, UM, Tech, NC State, etc in recent years. They have decent talent, terrible non-conferences, but play the teams in conference tough. So I think talk of UA going undefeated is very premature.

[Buckminsterfuller]

Although it is fun to speculate whether Duke can make it through the regular season undefeated, it is unlikely to happen. Many years at this time, we have similar threads -- but the margin in many games comes down to a bounce here or there, a call here or there, a free throw made or not, and it is difficult to have all of those go your way over nearly forty games. I think the Blue Devils could have tough games with Miami, UNC, VT, FSU and Maryland. Conference play is tough. If the Blue Devils win all of those, that would be most excellent. I think a three loss regular season would be terrific for this team, although I am hoping for them to run the table, as unlikely as that may be.

[gam7]

Not sure if it's been noted recently, but Cincinnati hosts New Mexico tonight. Should be a decent test for Cincy.

[Newton_14]

The notion that Louisville will go unbeaten with road games left against Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, and Notre Dame; as well as home games against Cincy, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt, and Marquete; is almost absurd. If they go through the BEast schedule with only 2 losses, it will be tremendously impressive.

Similarly, while the SEC ain't the BEast, Florida is nowhere near a favorite to win all their games in the conference. They have 2 games with Kentucky and two with Missouri. Mizzu is higher ranked than Florida -- why not talk about their chance of going unbeaten the rest of the way?

Folks, lets get a dose of reality into this conversation, ok? The entire point of this thread is to count down the unbeaten teams as they steadily fall. There is a lesson there... they all will fall at some point. That is just the reality of college hoops. We have not seen a major conference team go unbeaten through the regular season since... ummm... has it been since the Indiana club of the mid-1970s? St Joe's and Cincy both went unbeaten until March in the past 15 years, but they did it in the A-10 and Conf USA. I feel like I must be forgetting someone...

-Jason "some historian help me out here" Evans

Amen and Amen. I don't get all the undefeated talk. All of these teams are flawed and will lose 4+ games before all is said and done including Duke. Losing on 2 or 3 games would be a challenge and a great season. Running the table ain't happening.

[sporthenry]

Well one Cincy team lost tonight. Not the one we would have preferred but another undefeated falls.

[uh_no]

Ha.

The sports gods struck back at cinci handing them their first loss in bball.

Some consolation at least!

anyway...and then there were 4.

[hurleyfor3]

Too bad the game was in Cincy; I'm writing this within walking distance of The Pit.

For some reason, Albuquerque is nicknamed "Duke City".

[sporthenry]

Saw the end of the game. Cincy player hit something like an 18 foot bank hook shot after a 3 was blocked but it was after the buzzer. Pretty crazy shot and sometimes the ones that don't count are more impressive than the ones that do.

[throatybeard]

Too bad the game was in Cincy; I'm writing this within walking distance of The Pit.

For some reason, Albuquerque is nicknamed "Duke City".

I thought of you today, for automotive reasons:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030412121936/http://www.ncroads.com/interst/ih277.htm

[David]

For some reason, Albuquerque is nicknamed "Duke City".

I wondered about this during a recent visit to ABQ. (Even the minor league baseball team used to be called the Dukes.)

From: http://albuquerque.about.com/od/lifestyles/g/Duke-City-And-Albuquerque.htm


Definition: Duke City is just another name for Albuquerque. Finding out how it got that name requires a look at some local history. The Albuquerque region has been populated by Native Americans for centuries. In the 1500s, the first Spanish explorers arrived and brought settlers with them.

In the early 1700s, King Philip of Spain granted a group of Spanish colonists permission to to start a new city along the banks of the Rio Grande. The colony's governor, Francisco Cuervo y Valdez wrote a letter to the Duke of Albuerquerque in Spain, reporting the new settlement and its name: the Villa de Alburquerque. They had named their new city after the Duke.

The middle "r" was dropped from the city's spelling over the years, but the nomenclature remained. The city of Albuquerque is colloquially called the "Duke City" to this day.

[subzero02]

The notion that Louisville will go unbeaten with road games left against Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, and Notre Dame; as well as home games against Cincy, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt, and Marquete; is almost absurd. If they go through the BEast schedule with only 2 losses, it will be tremendously impressive.

Similarly, while the SEC ain't the BEast, Florida is nowhere near a favorite to win all their games in the conference. They have 2 games with Kentucky and two with Missouri. Mizzu is higher ranked than Florida -- why not talk about their chance of going unbeaten the rest of the way?

Folks, lets get a dose of reality into this conversation, ok? The entire point of this thread is to count down the unbeaten teams as they steadily fall. There is a lesson there... they all will fall at some point. That is just the reality of college hoops. We have not seen a major conference team go unbeaten through the regular season since... ummm... has it been since the Indiana club of the mid-1970s? St Joe's and Cincy both went unbeaten until March in the past 15 years, but they did it in the A-10 and Conf USA. I feel like I must be forgetting someone...

-Jason "some historian help me out here" Evans

According to vegas Florida isn't favored to win the SEC... Kentucky is.

[Olympic Fan]

Bold prediction...Arizona will be the last team to get that first loss.

Florida, Miami and San Diego State were their stiffest tests and I just don't see anyone in the Pac-12 posing a serious challenge. @UCLA might be the game they finally lose in -- that'll be a tough game as UCLA would've had time to gel and Shabazz to get going -- and that's on March 2.

You might be right about Arizona surviving longest, but I think you underestimate some Pac 12 tests. They face a tough backt-back trip to Oregon and Oregon State, starting Jan, 10. that could be tough -- they've done most of thi damage at home this season. They do have two road wins (the best -- by far -- at Clemson) and three wins in Hawaii. But a trip to Corvallis for a team tht's currently 34th in Pomeroy -- well Pom does favor Arizona, but only a 57 percent of winning.

By comparsion, Duke is given a 71 percent chance at NC State on Jan. 12 -- and we know how tough that's going to be.

Michigan should make it to Jan. 13 -- but that night they are a big underdog at Ohio State. And even if they survive that, they are slight underdogs a few nights later at Minnesota.

Wyoming is the most interesting unbeaten left. They are favored in their next five games, but could lose any of them -- three road games and home games with Boise State and San Diego State. If they survive that run, they culd be the last unbeaten -- they aren't favored to lose until a Jan. 24 game at UNLV -- but they are big underdogs in that one.

PS Pomeroy has both Duke and Arizona favored in every remaining game. On the other hand, he rates Arizona at just 2 percent chance offinishing the regular season unbeaten. He has Duke at 9.0 percent (Duke's toughest games, according to Pom are at NC State-71 percent chance of winning; at UNC 74 percent; at Miami 75 percent; at Virginia 78 percent. Everthing else is over 80 percent; inm fact just at Maryland 83 percent and at FSU 86 percent are under 90 percent).

I guess my point is that I don't know which of the four unbeatens has the best chance to last longest. But I'd be willing to bet serious money that none of the four will make it out of January unbeaten.

[gam7]

Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Duke 4 1 12-0 ACC 1/2 - @Davidson (74); 1/5 - Wake Forest (179)
Mich. 9 2 13-0 B10 1/3 - @Northwestern (85); 1/6 - Iowa (44)
Arizona 11 3 12-0 P12 1/3 - Colorado (36); 1/5 - Utah (168)
Wyom. 34 28 12-0 MWC 1/2 - @SMU (197)

Entering conference play, we have four left. Two games on each of Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday, plus one game Sunday.

Davidson should push Duke, as they usually do. I have trouble seeing Iowa winning at Michigan or Colorado winning at Arizona. Should be a pretty uneventful week for the Unbeaten overall.

[ice-9]

You might be right about Arizona surviving longest, but I think you underestimate some Pac 12 tests. They face a tough backt-back trip to Oregon and Oregon State, starting Jan, 10. that could be tough -- they've done most of thi damage at home this season. They do have two road wins (the best -- by far -- at Clemson) and three wins in Hawaii. But a trip to Corvallis for a team tht's currently 34th in Pomeroy -- well Pom does favor Arizona, but only a 57 percent of winning.

By comparsion, Duke is given a 71 percent chance at NC State on Jan. 12 -- and we know how tough that's going to be.

Michigan should make it to Jan. 13 -- but that night they are a big underdog at Ohio State. And even if they survive that, they are slight underdogs a few nights later at Minnesota.

Wyoming is the most interesting unbeaten left. They are favored in their next five games, but could lose any of them -- three road games and home games with Boise State and San Diego State. If they survive that run, they culd be the last unbeaten -- they aren't favored to lose until a Jan. 24 game at UNLV -- but they are big underdogs in that one.

PS Pomeroy has both Duke and Arizona favored in every remaining game. On the other hand, he rates Arizona at just 2 percent chance offinishing the regular season unbeaten. He has Duke at 9.0 percent (Duke's toughest games, according to Pom are at NC State-71 percent chance of winning; at UNC 74 percent; at Miami 75 percent; at Virginia 78 percent. Everthing else is over 80 percent; inm fact just at Maryland 83 percent and at FSU 86 percent are under 90 percent).

I guess my point is that I don't know which of the four unbeatens has the best chance to last longest. But I'd be willing to bet serious money that none of the four will make it out of January unbeaten.


If it's too logical then it ain't bold! :cool:

71% at NC State though sounds far too generous to me...

[Saratoga2]

For Michigan to survive, it will have to run the gauntlet with rated Big Ten teams. Duke also will have some tough matches along the way. Even though both may be among the very best in the country, they may be the first to fall. Arizona and Louisville are standing in the wings to move up as either falls. Syracuse schedule has been a laugh so far. Don't see how they can be rated as high as they are. Boeheim gets tons of easy wins to pad his total.

[porkpa]

Syracuse schedule has been a laugh so far. Don't see how they can be rated as high as they are. Boeheim gets tons of easy wins to pad his total.

The combination of Boeheim scheduling so many easy games every year as well as his refusing to modify his coaching to include anything but a a zone defense, precludes my ever thinking of him as anything resembling a great coach. He projects an image of just being lazy. Does he have a huge number of wins? Yes, but a large number of them come against teams that would have problems defeating the best high school squads.
Why would a talented player want to play for him? Its certainly isn't because he would learn a great deal. Exposure? Yes. Just think about all the great college players that have played at Syracuse. How many have gone on to achieve their maximum potential in the pros? Carmello is the only one that comes immediately to mind. Derrick Coleman came close. But I really think he would have been even better if someone like Coach K, Bobby Knight or Dean Smith had tutored him. In my mind Billy Owens should have become a great pro, but he didn't.

[timmy c]

The combination of Boeheim scheduling so many easy games every year as well as his refusing to modify his coaching to include anything but a a zone defense, precludes my ever thinking of him as anything resembling a great coach. He projects an image of just being lazy. Does he have a huge number of wins? Yes, but a large number of them come against teams that would have problems defeating the best high school squads.
Why would a talented player want to play for him? Its certainly isn't because he would learn a great deal. Exposure? Yes. Just think about all the great college players that have played at Syracuse. How many have gone on to achieve their maximum potential in the pros? Carmello is the only one that comes immediately to mind. Derrick Coleman came close. But I really think he would have been even better if someone like Coach K, Bobby Knight or Dean Smith had tutored him. In my mind Billy Owens should have become a great pro, but he didn't.

wow.

I wonder why you think Coack K invited Boeheim to be a part of the the National team coaching staff?

[rsvman]

The combination of Boeheim scheduling so many easy games every year as well as his refusing to modify his coaching to include anything but a a zone defense, precludes my ever thinking of him as anything resembling a great coach. He projects an image of just being lazy. Does he have a huge number of wins? Yes, but a large number of them come against teams that would have problems defeating the best high school squads.
Why would a talented player want to play for him? Its certainly isn't because he would learn a great deal. Exposure? Yes. Just think about all the great college players that have played at Syracuse. How many have gone on to achieve their maximum potential in the pros? Carmello is the only one that comes immediately to mind. Derrick Coleman came close. But I really think he would have been even better if someone like Coach K, Bobby Knight or Dean Smith had tutored him. In my mind Billy Owens should have become a great pro, but he didn't.

So I guess Coach K is no good because he refuses to play anything but man-to-man?

[Jderf]

So I guess Coach K is no good because he refuses to play anything but man-to-man?

Plus he pads his win totals with creampuff games against the likes of Elon, Cornell, and Georgia State.

[porkpa]

[QUOTE=Jderf;614166]Plus he pads his win totals with creampuff games against the likes of Elon, Cornell, and Georgia State.[

Although Coach K rarely does it, he has sometimes played zone. I can't recall Boeheim ever playing anything but zone. All teams play a certain number of cupcake games. To suggest that because Duke plays a few every season that Coach K's scheduling is even remotely comparable to Boeheim's borders on stupidity. I'm surprised that Krzyzewski has chosen Boeheim as one of his main assistants. He obviously knows a lot more than I do. Maybe its because he's a good golfer. :-)

[ricks68]

[QUOTE=Jderf;614166]Plus he pads his win totals with creampuff games against the likes of Elon, Cornell, and Georgia State.[

Although Coach K rarely does it, he has sometimes played zone. I can't recall Boeheim ever playing anything but zone. All teams play a certain number of cupcake games. To suggest that because Duke plays a few every season that Coach K's scheduling is even remotely comparable to Boeheim's borders on stupidity. I'm surprised that Krzyzewski has chosen Boeheim as one of his main assistants. He obviously knows a lot more than I do. Maybe its because he's a good golfer. :-)

There's an old saying that goes: "There is nothing as successful as success." Zone, man-to-man, turtle soup, whatever.............:rolleyes:

ricks

[Edouble]

Plus he pads his win totals with creampuff games against the likes of Elon, Cornell, and Georgia State.[

Although Coach K rarely does it, he has sometimes played zone. I can't recall Boeheim ever playing anything but zone. All teams play a certain number of cupcake games. To suggest that because Duke plays a few every season that Coach K's scheduling is even remotely comparable to Boeheim's borders on stupidity. I'm surprised that Krzyzewski has chosen Boeheim as one of his main assistants. He obviously knows a lot more than I do. Maybe its because he's a good golfer. :-)

Does Coach K play golf?

[Indoor66]

Does Coach K play golf?

I think his focus has been tennis and raquet ball.

[tbyers11]

Since it is not a game involving UNC therefore not jinxable, Colorado is currently running Arizona off their home court in Tucson. It is 32-19 Colorado with 3 minutes left in the first half. Arizona just hit 2 threes to get the crowd fired up. Interesting to see how Arizona responds.

Michigan is up 87-58 with 3 min left @ Northwestern and will remain unbeaten

[cptnflash]

Since it is not a game involving UNC therefore not jinxable, Colorado is currently running Arizona off their home court in Tucson. It is 32-19 Colorado with 3 minutes left in the first half. Arizona just hit 2 threes to get the crowd fired up. Interesting to see how Arizona responds.

Michigan is up 87-58 with 3 min left @ Northwestern and will remain unbeaten

Nice, let's go Buffs! I will forever hate the Wildcats for how they ended Kyle and Nolan's careers.

[wgl1228]

Colorado up 45-35 with 15 minutes left in 2nd half at Arizona.

[uh_no]

Colorado up 45-35 with 15 minutes left in 2nd half at Arizona.

its on ESPN3 in spanish or ESPNU, for those who might want to watch

[sagegrouse]

its on ESPN3 in spanish or ESPNU, for those who might want to watch

Now 51-35, Colorado. -- sage

[Bluedevil114]

4:13 remaining Colorado 68 Arizona 58.

[Newton_14]

Conference play is brutal boys (unless you are 1999, 2000, and 2001 Duke :D) (look up Battier's record in conference play and it is simply amazing).

But back to reality and my point. We will get bit, on the road, by an unranked conference foe, and likely 1 or 2 of the ranked foe's. (still can't believe we ran the table in conference road games last year).

It will happen. That is just the reality of college hoops. Kenpom menpom, 88% chance of winning blah blah blah.. Upsets are a part of life and this season will be no different. Michigan will lose, Duke will lose, and Indiana 1976 will drink champagne again like always (or is that the 72 Fins?) :D

My main point is, let us not have a meltdown on DBR when some team beats us that has no business doing so. No wailing or knashing of teeth, and for Christs sake no team and player bashing. Just a "Next Play" and bring on the next opponent.

[El_Diablo]

Colorado really choking. Down to a 4 point game.

Make that 2.

[Duvall]

Impressive gag job by the Buffs.

[uh_no]

Impressive gag job by the Buffs.

too soon?

[moonpie23]

high drama to the tune of less than a tenth of a second on a shot.......refs reviewing

[uh_no]

high dram to the tune of less than a tenth of a second on a shot.......refs reviewing

colorado just got screwed!

[moonpie23]

colorado just got hosed....

[sagegrouse]

colorado just got screwed!

I agree. From the side it was clear it was off his fingers. -- sagegrouse

[Bluedevil114]

The side view was obvious that there was :01 left on the clock. Unbelievable.

[Marc81]

colorado just got screwed!

Totally agree!!

[dukelifer]

The side view was obvious that there was :01 left on the clock. Unbelievable.

Horrible call. They used the wrong view. Of course Colorado blew the game by turning it over and missing throws. Still- the kid hit the shot.

[Newton_14]

Horrible call. They used the wrong view. Of course Colorado blew the game by turning it over and missing throws. Still- the kid hit the shot.

Which channel was the game on? I am watching the Fiesta Bowl and tried to find the hoops game once you guys started posting about it. No luck.

I take it Colorado hit a game winner that the refs incorrectly deemed too late?

[dukelifer]

which channel was the game on? I am watching the fiesta bowl and tried to find the hoops game once you guys started posting about it. No luck.

I take it colorado hit a game winner that the refs incorrectly deemed too late?

espnu

[Bluedog]

I missed the end of regulation shot (although they just showed it briefly), but in OT I saw a TERRIBLE no travel call on AZ. It was the most obvious travel I have ever seen and no call...no idea how a ref would miss that. He threw the ball up and then basically caught it again and starting dribbling...haha. Looks like CO can't hit any free throws.

[bedeviled]

Haha. The graphic in the Arizona game:

Duke - best start since 2010-11
Michigan - 2nd best start in school history
Arizona - 2nd best start in school history
Wyoming - best start in school history

One of these things is not like the others :D

[SCMatt33]

I think the call was a lot closer than it's being given credit for. The ESPN clock on the bottom right corner of the standard view was off by .1 seconds. If you looked at the clock over the basket (which is the official clock), it appeared to be at .1 with the ball just barely on his fingertips (though his hand was blurry from motion), and the next frame had it off his hand, but the clock was at 0. I saw no definitive frame with either the ball clearly off his hands and the backboard clock at .1, or a shot with the ball on his hand at 0. I saw no signal from the refs before the review (the points appearing on the score doesn't mean that the refs called it that way, just the scoreboard operator), so they couldn't stay with "the call on the court" unless they made a call we didn't know about. You could have flipped a coin to make that call. Maybe we'll see later that a photographer happened to catch a definitive shot, but I saw none.

[Tom B.]

Conference play is brutal boys (unless you are 1999, 2000, and 2001 Duke :D) (look up Battier's record in conference play and it is simply amazing).



He was 59-5, right? If you include ACC Tournaments, I think he was 70-6 -- or 71-6, if you also include the 2001 NCAA Tournament win over Maryland (tee-hee).

More amazing than Battier's record, though was Duke's 24-game road winning streak in ACC play from 1998-2001. That's the equivalent of three full seasons without losing an ACC road game. That record might outlive us all.

[basket1544]

He was 59-5, right? If you include ACC Tournaments, I think he was 70-6 -- or 71-6, if you also include the 2001 NCAA Tournament win over Maryland (tee-hee).

To go further down this rabbit hole: Shane's win percentage was 89.7%. Ryan's win percentage is thus far 89.47%.

[Channing]

That was about as close as possible. All that matters is when the score board lights up. The clock in the tv display is irrelevant. It looked like the ball leaves his hand at the exact same moment the backboard lights up. Almost an impossible call.

That said, I think he cu should have gotten the benefit of,the doubt!

[Bluedog]

I think the call was a lot closer than it's being given credit for. The ESPN clock on the bottom right corner of the standard view was off by .1 seconds. If you looked at the clock over the basket (which is the official clock), it appeared to be at .1 with the ball just barely on his fingertips (though his hand was blurry from motion), and the next frame had it off his hand, but the clock was at 0. I saw no definitive frame with either the ball clearly off his hands and the backboard clock at .1, or a shot with the ball on his hand at 0. I saw no signal from the refs before the review (the points appearing on the score doesn't mean that the refs called it that way, just the scoreboard operator), so they couldn't stay with "the call on the court" unless they made a call we didn't know about. You could have flipped a coin to make that call. Maybe we'll see later that a photographer happened to catch a definitive shot, but I saw none.

Yeah, I agree at least from watching it from YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMus7GuNXNg

The ESPN clock says 0.2 when the ball is out of his hands, but the clock above says 0.0. If you go the frame before at 0.1 seconds (above the basket clock, which is official - ESPN clock says 0.3), the ball is potentially still on his fingertips, but can't really tell for sure.

0.1 on the clock above basket:
http://i47.tinypic.com/jtqi6b.png

0.0 on clock:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2m43epg.png

[Newton_14]

He was 59-5, right? If you include ACC Tournaments, I think he was 70-6 -- or 71-6, if you also include the 2001 NCAA Tournament win over Maryland (tee-hee).

More amazing than Battier's record, though was Duke's 24-game road winning streak in ACC play from 1998-2001. That's the equivalent of three full seasons without losing an ACC road game. That record might outlive us all.

59-5 in Conference Regular Season Games (4 ACC Regular Season 1st Place)
11-1 in Conference Tourney Play (3 ACC Titles)

30-2 in Conference Road Games
29-3 in Conference Home Games

55-4 in All Home Games
38-3 in All Road Games

[awhom111]

Since I am theoretically the Wyoming expert on this board, I thought that I should mention that Luke Martinez, one of their two most important players, has a hand injury that will keep him out for at least a little while. His absence nearly cost them last night's game and they are much more vulnerable to an upset before they face the toughest teams on their schedule now.

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, I agree at least from watching it from YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMus7GuNXNg

The ESPN clock says 0.2 when the ball is out of his hands, but the clock above says 0.0. If you go the frame before at 0.1 seconds (above the basket clock, which is official - ESPN clock says 0.3), the ball is potentially still on his fingertips, but can't really tell for sure.

0.1 on the clock above basket:
http://i47.tinypic.com/jtqi6b.png

0.0 on clock:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2m43epg.png

Yes, but isn't it 0.1 on the other facet of the goal clock? At least, that's what I saw during the replays.

-- sage

[JasonEvans]

Twitter has gone ballistic on this Colo-Az call. Kinda fun. Tons of images and pictures being posted that seem to mostly show a muddled view of whether the shot was out of his hands. Ignore all the side views, they are worthless. The view from behind, which shows the official game clock, is the one that must be used. Of course, the problem with that view is that it is almost impossible to see if the ball has left his hands completely.

This gif is compelling... but I am not sure what it shows.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8212/8343745495_d889da6b71_o.gif

As an aside, there was no question how the refs would rule. Expecting fair refs in Tuscon is asking for something that ain't never gonna happen. K knows that. It is why he refuses to play there.

-Jason "I feel like Colorado probably got screwed... but it is their own fault" Evans

[loran16]

Regardless you have referee malpractice here of the worst degree.

At best you believe it's inconclusive. The rule is: "When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands"

The problem? It doesn't seem like any refs made ANY call. Seth Davis thinks he saw one ref signal it was good - in which case the Refs blew it. But by not making a call, the Refs essentially refused to take responsibility for the game and committed malpractice.

Awful.

Arizona isn't ranked in the Pomeroy top 10 for a reason guys....paper tiger. (Michigan will be ranked in the top 10 again after today).

[cptnflash]

Colorado had a 10 point lead with 2:30 to play. They should never have put themselves in a position where a questionable call could cost them the game. They didn't lose because of the refs.

[Bluedog]

Regardless you have referee malpractice here of the worst degree.

At best you believe it's inconclusive. The rule is: "When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands"

The problem? It doesn't seem like any refs made ANY call. Seth Davis thinks he saw one ref signal it was good - in which case the Refs blew it. But by not making a call, the Refs essentially refused to take responsibility for the game and committed malpractice.

Awful.

Arizona isn't ranked in the Pomeroy top 10 for a reason guys....paper tiger. (Michigan will be ranked in the top 10 again after today).

Are you sure that's the rule? Seth Davis who you cite says otherwise, no?


Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops

Unlike the NFL there is NO language in the rule book about needing strong evidence to a reverse a call. You judge the replay regarless

He still thinks it was the wrong call, though, and got it off. But it doesn't sound like you need definitive proof - the ref that made the call (Verne Harris) worked the NCAA finals last year apparently.

[Newton_14]

Twitter has gone ballistic on this Colo-Az call. Kinda fun. Tons of images and pictures being posted that seem to mostly show a muddled view of whether the shot was out of his hands. Ignore all the side views, they are worthless. The view from behind, which shows the official game clock, is the one that must be used. Of course, the problem with that view is that it is almost impossible to see if the ball has left his hands completely.

This gif is compelling... but I am not sure what it shows.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8212/8343745495_d889da6b71_o.gif

As an aside, there was no question how the refs would rule. Expecting fair refs in Tuscon is asking for something that ain't never gonna happen. K knows that. It is why he refuses to play there.

-Jason "I feel like Colorado probably got screwed... but it is their own fault" Evans

Put me in the crowd that says this is too close to call. It is definitely still in his hand at .01, and that is all we can determine. It is impossible to tell if it left his hand before the clock struck .00.

I would not want to be the ref reviewing that. If I were, I would stick with whatever the call made live was. If as Loran notes, there was no call made prior to the review, then I think I would have to rule it as no good knowing both teams would get 5 minutes of OT to decide the outcome.

If however, me or a fellow ref ruled it good live, then I would have to stick with that call after seeing the replay.

[uh_no]

Yeah, I agree at least from watching it from YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMus7GuNXNg

The ESPN clock says 0.2 when the ball is out of his hands, but the clock above says 0.0. If you go the frame before at 0.1 seconds (above the basket clock, which is official - ESPN clock says 0.3), the ball is potentially still on his fingertips, but can't really tell for sure.

0.1 on the clock above basket:
http://i47.tinypic.com/jtqi6b.png

0.0 on clock:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2m43epg.png

per literal reading of the rulebook, in this case when we have the ball in his hand with .1 and out of his hand at 0.0 shall count as a shot:

Determine whether a try for field goal entering the basket was released
before the reading of zeros on the game clock

the stipulation is that it was released BEFORE the reading of zeroes. at the time when the clock reads zeroes, the ball is out of his hand. therefore it was released before the clock read zero.

refs botched this one

[cptnflash]

It's pretty clear that this was just as legitimate a shot as Gordon Hayward's heave at the end of the 2010 title game - clearly still in his hand with 0.1 seconds on the clock, very likely out of his hand with 0.0 seconds left. But again, Colorado lost this game in the last 2:30 of regulation when they blew a 10 point lead. They didn't lose because of the refs.

[Bluedog]

per literal reading of the rulebook, in this case when we have the ball in his hand with .1 and out of his hand at 0.0 shall count as a shot:


the stipulation is that it was released BEFORE the reading of zeroes. at the time when the clock reads zeroes, the ball is out of his hand. therefore it was released before the clock read zero.

refs botched this one

I actually read that statement a bit differently; in that the ball has to be out of the hands at 0.1 because otherwise it's not before the reading of zeros. Since it wasn't conclusively out of his hands at 0.1 (in fact, most people seem to agree that it was still touching his fingertips), based on how the rule was written, the ball was NOT released before the reading of zeros on the clock. It was released exactly when the reading of the zeros on the clock occurred. I personally think it should have counted actually, but just trying to play a little bit of devil's advocate and can understand the refs call (it was ridiculously close obviously).

[loran16]

Are you sure that's the rule? Seth Davis who you cite says otherwise, no?



He still thinks it was the wrong call, though, and got it off. But it doesn't sound like you need definitive proof - the ref that made the call (Verne Harris) worked the NCAA finals last year apparently.

Yes that's the rule - rob dauster of NBC went through the rule book and that's the exact quote.

Course one screenshot shows a ref calling it good furthering the evidence that this was a terrible call

[uh_no]

I actually read that statement a bit differently; in that the ball has to be out of the hands at 0.1 because otherwise it's not before the reading of zeros. Since it wasn't conclusively out of his hands at 0.1 (in fact, most people seem to agree that it was still touching his fingertips), based on how the rule was written, the ball was NOT released before the reading of zeros on the clock. It was released exactly when the reading of the zeros on the clock occurred. I personally think it should have counted actually, but just trying to play a little bit of devil's advocate and can understand the refs call (it was ridiculously close obviously).

time for some super slow mo cams!

[SCMatt33]

time for some super slow mo cams!

The available cameras was definitely an issue here. This was an early January game on ESPNU and there were only 2 available angles, the standard gameplay sideline angle, and a single camera from the opposite baseline.

If this were a tourney game, there would definitely be a better angle to see a definitive shot. The closest thing I can remember to this was the Devendorf shot for Syracuse during the 6OT BET game. Because it was a higher profile game, ESPN had more cameras and got a definitive shot with the ball barely on his fingertips before 0. That might have been the case here, but we'll never know.

On another note, regardless of what should have been called, this was not refs being "unfair" nor was it "malpractice" as I have read in this thread. If the call (or the process to make the call) was wrong, it was not because any one of those refs said "hey, let's screw Colorado" or "Zona is the home team, let's please the home crowd," or even "Zona is the better team and they get the benefit of the doubt." It was simple human error. The rule book is long, complicated, and often not definitive, especially for situations that rarely come up. The refs work as hard as anyone in the game to be good at what they do, because frankly, they don't get the best gigs if they're bad. I do wish there was more transparency in refs being able to talk to the media, especially for cases like this which aren't judgement calls. I was particularly happy to see the mistake in the Marquette-UConn game fully acknowledged with an explanation about what happened vs. what should have happened. If this could happen for every situation that isn't "he should(n't) have called a foul on blank," the game would be a lot better off, but we need to accept that refs can make big mistakes and still be fair and honest refs.

[sporthenry]

It's pretty clear that this was just as legitimate a shot as Gordon Hayward's heave at the end of the 2010 title game - clearly still in his hand with 0.1 seconds on the clock, very likely out of his hand with 0.0 seconds left. But again, Colorado lost this game in the last 2:30 of regulation when they blew a 10 point lead. They didn't lose because of the refs.

Sure. Just like Green Bay lost the game to Seattle by letting Tate catch the ball. That still doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be applied and that the other team wasn't screwed. I just think this argument is such a cop out. If teams are truly equals, then a call one way or another can lose you a game. Sure, there will always be things you could have done better because nobody can really play a perfect game but that doesn't justify the refs making a bad call.

[tele]

Haha. The graphic in the Arizona game:

Duke - best start since 2010-11
Michigan - 2nd best start in school history
Arizona - 2nd best start in school history
Wyoming - best start in school history

One of these things is not like the others :D

I'd say wyoming, right?

[loran16]

The available cameras was definitely an issue here. This was an early January game on ESPNU and there were only 2 available angles, the standard gameplay sideline angle, and a single camera from the opposite baseline.

If this were a tourney game, there would definitely be a better angle to see a definitive shot. The closest thing I can remember to this was the Devendorf shot for Syracuse during the 6OT BET game. Because it was a higher profile game, ESPN had more cameras and got a definitive shot with the ball barely on his fingertips before 0. That might have been the case here, but we'll never know.

On another note, regardless of what should have been called, this was not refs being "unfair" nor was it "malpractice" as I have read in this thread. If the call (or the process to make the call) was wrong, it was not because any one of those refs said "hey, let's screw Colorado" or "Zona is the home team, let's please the home crowd," or even "Zona is the better team and they get the benefit of the doubt." It was simple human error. The rule book is long, complicated, and often not definitive, especially for situations that rarely come up. The refs work as hard as anyone in the game to be good at what they do, because frankly, they don't get the best gigs if they're bad. I do wish there was more transparency in refs being able to talk to the media, especially for cases like this which aren't judgement calls. I was particularly happy to see the mistake in the Marquette-UConn game fully acknowledged with an explanation about what happened vs. what should have happened. If this could happen for every situation that isn't "he should(n't) have called a foul on blank," the game would be a lot better off, but we need to accept that refs can make big mistakes and still be fair and honest refs.

If the refs hadn't made a call, it would've been malpractice. As one ref appears to have called the basket good, they just made a big mistake.

That said, it certainly does seem like home cooking influenced the referees here. Saw it as inconclusive, decided in way that would please the crowd.

[bedeviled]

I'd say wyoming, right?Ugh. I'm worried you aren't joking. To be clear:
Duke - best start since 2010-11
Michigan - 2nd best start in school history
Arizona - 2nd best start in school history
Wyoming - best start in school history

Duke - taking the time capsule all the way back to the year before last!! We are spoiled:o

[Tom B.]

Duke - best start since 2010-11
Michigan - 2nd best start in school history
Arizona - 2nd best start in school history
Wyoming - best start in school history

Duke - taking the time capsule all the way back to the year before last!! We are spoiled:o




When I saw that Wyoming was still undefeated, I figured it was because they'd gorged themselves on a typical Larry Shyatt (remember him?) schedule full of early season creampuffs, and for the most part I was right. The Cowboys' schedule to date has included Western State (who?), N.C. Central, South Dakota, Southern, Northern Colorado, CSU Bakersfield, UC-Santa Barbara (twice!), Illinois State, Panhandle State (again, who?), Denver and SMU. But they do have one win over a team that was ranked at the time they played. The team?

Colorado.

[Tom B.]

59-5 in Conference Regular Season Games (4 ACC Regular Season 1st Place)
11-1 in Conference Tourney Play (3 ACC Titles)

30-2 in Conference Road Games
29-3 in Conference Home Games

55-4 in All Home Games
38-3 in All Road Games




As long as we're talking about crazy records held by Duke players (yes, I know I'm getting off the thread topic), perhaps my all-time favorite is Christian Laettner's shooting percentage in NCAA Regional Final games (i.e., the game you have to win to get to the Final Four). He played (and started) in four of them, and his cumulative shooting percentage in those four games is 91.17% (31-for-34).

[mo.st.dukie]

Sure. Just like Green Bay lost the game to Seattle by letting Tate catch the ball. That still doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be applied and that the other team wasn't screwed. I just think this argument is such a cop out. If teams are truly equals, then a call one way or another can lose you a game. Sure, there will always be things you could have done better because nobody can really play a perfect game but that doesn't justify the refs making a bad call.

But you can also say that no ref can call a perfect game either, they're human too just like the players. Basketball is so fast and free-flowing that it's nearly impossible for refs to get every single call right in a game, that's just the nature of the game. Football still has bad calls from time to time but it's much slower paced, every play starts from a stand-still set formation, more refs watching each segment of the playing field, etc. It was a terrible call, the refs gave into the pressure of the home crowd, but Adams missed BOTH free throws with 16 seconds left that would've put CO up by 4, then they send Lyons to the line instead of playing more disciplined defense and forcing a tough shot. And Colorado took their sweet time getting down the court on that last possession, roll the ball or dribble down court a little faster and maybe the guy gets the shot off with 1 second left instead of 0.1 second left. That's coaching, preparation, basketball IQ, execution in crunch time, etc. No, you can't play a perfect game but even with all of Colorado's mistakes to let AZ back in it they still could've won by making just one more free throw or one more layup. The refs made a terrible call, the Colorado players made terrible plays. It's so often the little things that can separate winning and losing.

[sporthenry]

But you can also say that no ref can call a perfect game either, they're human too just like the players. Basketball is so fast and free-flowing that it's nearly impossible for refs to get every single call right in a game, that's just the nature of the game. Football still has bad calls from time to time but it's much slower paced, every play starts from a stand-still set formation, more refs watching each segment of the playing field, etc. It was a terrible call, the refs gave into the pressure of the home crowd, but Adams missed BOTH free throws with 16 seconds left that would've put CO up by 4, then they send Lyons to the line instead of playing more disciplined defense and forcing a tough shot. And Colorado took their sweet time getting down the court on that last possession, roll the ball or dribble down court a little faster and maybe the guy gets the shot off with 1 second left instead of 0.1 second left. That's coaching, preparation, basketball IQ, execution in crunch time, etc. No, you can't play a perfect game but even with all of Colorado's mistakes to let AZ back in it they still could've won by making just one more free throw or one more layup. The refs made a terrible call, the Colorado players made terrible plays. It's so often the little things that can separate winning and losing.

Yes, but the difference between this and the Packers game and other missed calls (as you allude to with pace of the game) is that these were reviews. When most of us can see it was the bad call after review, we are left questioning the integrity of the game. I can take a bad call in the heat of the moment that is a subjective one anyways. And I guess some can argue this and the Packers/Seahawks call was subjective but to the objective fan, they looked like blown calls after the review.

But I know refs aren't perfect. But just like you criticized CU players for other things that cost them the game, shouldn't I be able to criticize the refs as well. Now criticizing CU is made easier b/c CU was winning and made a few mistakes but that doesn't make the ref mistake any less of a cause. Would it have been different if it was the other way, meaning UA hit the 3 but it didn't count after coming back and subsequently lost. Then you would have to go to random possessions 3-4 minutes before and point to them or OT. Sure, any game doesn't come down to just the refs but to act like they didn't have any if not a fairly large factor seems dishonest.

If we took a poll, how many would say that is a good basket? If it was a good basket, does CU not win? So I'm not sure how the refs didn't affect this game. Sure, you'd be best not to allow the refs to affect the final outcome but it does happen and for an underdog, they often can't overcome these types of things.

[cptnflash]

Michigan currently crushing a pretty good Iowa team that gave Indiana a real test. First time I've watched Mitch McGary play extended minutes, I can totally see why Coach K wanted him. And Trey Burke is fantastic, he will give Mason a good challenge in the national POY race.

[Wander]

Arizona barely won at home again yesterday, to a Utah team that's probably much worse than Colorado. They're living on borrowed time. Not saying they're not a good team, but they're not on the same level as Duke, Louisville, etc.

[gam7]

Team Pom AP Record Conf Schedule
Duke 3 1 14-0 ACC 1/8 - Clemson (83); 1/12 - @NC State (36)
Mich. 7 2 15-0 B10 1/9 - Nebraska (189); 1/13 - @Ohio St. (11)
Arizona 14 4 14-0 P12 1/10 - @Oregon (26); 1/12 - @Oregon St. (112)
Wyom. 33 27 13-0 MWC 1/9 - Boise St. (49); 1/12 - @Nevada (167)

Well, Arizona didn't make it easy on themselves, but all four unbeatens make it another week with the bullseye on their backs. Each of the four has a game this week against a Pom Top 50 team. On Wednesday, Wyoming takes on a sneaky tough Boise St. team (although that game is at Wyoming). On Thursday, Arizona travels to Oregon to play the 26th ranked Ducks. This is Arizona's first conference road game. On the weekend, all four unbeaten teams are on the road. Of course, we have the showdown in Raleigh, and Michigan visits Ohio State in a big rivalry game.

We'll likely see some carnage this week, but hopefully that carnage will not include the guys wearing Pantone 287.

[awhom111]

Wyoming goes down on a buzzer beater against Boise State. They were not expected to be off to such a strong start so they will just look to build on it. Six Mountain West teams in the tournament? Stay tuned...

[tele]

Ugh. I'm worried you aren't joking. To be clear:
Duke - best start since 2010-11
Michigan - 2nd best start in school history
Arizona - 2nd best start in school history
Wyoming - best start in school history

Duke - taking the time capsule all the way back to the year before last!! We are spoiled:o

not totally joking, because the one team that hadn't done it before, at least once, is Wyoming. The other three are the same since they all had starts like this before, but meant in fun, to be clear.

Now the Cowboys unexpected run is history too.

[vick]

Oregon leading Arizona 41-30 at the start of the second half, and it doesn't feel remotely "fluky."

Also nice to see a Singler lighting up a college court again.

[cptnflash]

Oregon still up 10 half way through the second half. We'll see if Arizona can pull off another miracle... sooner or later the magic has to wear off.

[sporthenry]

Oregon leading Arizona 41-30 at the start of the second half, and it doesn't feel remotely "fluky."

Also nice to see a Singler lighting up a college court again.

Almost a matter of time until they eventually run into a team that finishes the upset. I really hope Duke gets in UA's bracket however that happens. For once, I wouldn't mind Duke getting "screwed" with the 1 out west as long as we got to look across to them.

[loran16]

Weird to see a Singler and Tony Woods on the same team.

[vick]

Down goes Arizona! Singler with 14 points (leading team), 7 assists (leading team), and 7 boards (one under team high) for Oregon.

[Barr8]

Down goes Zona to a fairly average Oregon team. E.J. Singler ire minds me a lot of his brother, of course Kyle is a lot better but alot of similarities.

[gam7]

Down goes Zona to a fairly average Oregon team.
I disagree with your characterization of Oregon. They are ranked 26 by Pomeroy, which is better than a lot of "good" teams, including NC State. By Oregon standards, this is a great team. And of course conference road games are no picnic. This result is not surprising.

[loran16]

I disagree with your characterization of Oregon. They are ranked 26 by Pomeroy, which is better than a lot of "good" teams, including NC State. By Oregon standards, this is a great team. And of course conference road games are no picnic. This result is not surprising.

To be fair, Pomeroy has Arizona ranked 14th and had the game as a toss up (50% win %). Oregon won by greater than a toss-up, so Arizona was pretty well rated by Pomeroy - not a top 10 team.

They've been incredibly lucky. That's it. Yeah this was a tough game - a pick-em, but a top team like Duke doesn't have any pick-ems according to Pomeroy (before injury of course)

[ice-9]

You might be right about Arizona surviving longest, but I think you underestimate some Pac 12 tests. They face a tough backt-back trip to Oregon and Oregon State, starting Jan, 10. that could be tough -- they've done most of thi damage at home this season. They do have two road wins (the best -- by far -- at Clemson) and three wins in Hawaii. But a trip to Corvallis for a team tht's currently 34th in Pomeroy -- well Pom does favor Arizona, but only a 57 percent of winning.

Well played sir!

[timmy c]

I don't expect this thread to be open much longer. If the line was set at Jan. 24, I'd take the under.

Duke goes on the road to NC State without Kelly, then GT in Durham, followed by at Miami.
Michigan plays two away games in the next week; at Ohio St. and at Minnesota.

[JasonEvans]

I don't expect this thread to be open much longer. If the line was set at Jan. 24, I'd take the under.

Duke goes on the road to NC State without Kelly, then GT in Durham, followed by at Miami.
Michigan plays two away games in the next week; at Ohio St. and at Minnesota.

Duke gets road games against the two best opponents in the ACC (State and Miami), both of which are teams that are built around very potent inside players... especially at the PF (Leslie and Kadji). And Duke is without its defensive whiz PF.

Folks, you could not construct a worse scenario if you tried.

Michigan, meanwhile, has road games against the two best opponents in the Big Ten. Their path ain't easy either.

The odds that both these teams emerge from the next two weeks unbeaten are darn close to zero, if you ask me.

-Jason "well, it has been fun while it lasted ;) " Evans

[Barr8]

I disagree with your characterization of Oregon. They are ranked 26 by Pomeroy, which is better than a lot of "good" teams, including NC State. By Oregon standards, this is a great team. And of course conference road games are no picnic. This result is not surprising.

Have you watched Oregon more than once? I have. Their second best win is a very inconsistent UNLV team that lost to UNC. Anyway, Oregon is a average team.. They start Wake transfer Tony Woods.. He would have a hard time starting for most teams.

The ducks might make the tourney but it will because the PAC-12 is down. I live in the Pacific Northwest and watch a lot of college ball. It may be a stretch but I think UCLA will win the PAC-12. Arizona is the heavy favorite but they have been very lucky to be where they are.

[gam7]

Have you watched Oregon more than once? I have. Their second best win is a very inconsistent UNLV team that lost to UNC. Anyway, Oregon is a average team.. They start Wake transfer Tony Woods.. He would have a hard time starting for most teams.

The ducks might make the tourney but it will because the PAC-12 is down. I live in the Pacific Northwest and watch a lot of college ball. It may be a stretch but I think UCLA will win the PAC-12. Arizona is the heavy favorite but they have been very lucky to be where they are.

No I have not. In fact, I have not even watched Oregon once! But, I also have not watched 0-13 Grambling play this year, but I feel comfortable in concluding that they are absolutely awful.

Oregon beat UNLV (13-3 and a ranked team at the time and now - although they will likely fall out after their loss this week) on the road. Not an easy feat. Also, I did watch most of the UNLV-UNC game, and UNC played pretty well - not sure it was a case of UNLV's inconsistency. UNLV's only other loss (besides Oregon) was at New Mexico, which is a very tough place to play.

Anyway, setting aside UNLV, I was basing my opinion on Pomeroy's rankings, which have Oregon at 26. Apparently, the game with Arizona was considered a 50-50 toss up by Pomeroy. This suggests to me that based on metrics that I trust, Oregon is, in fact, good. Also, as I mentioned, by Oregon standards, this is a great Oregon team so far this season. As long as Pomeroy has been keeping stats (10 years), Oregon has finished the season rated higher than 26 exactly once - in 2007, and that year they were a 3 seed in the NCAA tourney. This was the fun Aaron Brooks team.

[MCFinARL]

Duke gets road games against the two best opponents in the ACC (State and Miami), both of which are teams that are built around very potent inside players... especially at the PF (Leslie and Kadji). And Duke is without its defensive whiz PF.

Folks, you could not construct a worse scenario if you tried.

Michigan, meanwhile, has road games against the two best opponents in the Big Ten. Their path ain't easy either.

The odds that both these teams emerge from the next two weeks unbeaten are darn close to zero, if you ask me.

-Jason "well, it has been fun while it lasted ;) " Evans

I'd say odds are pretty good that very soon the last undefeated team left standing in D1 basketball will be--the Blue Devil Women! And the odds of their staying undefeated past Jan. 21 (UConn in Storrs) aren't that great.

[sporthenry]

And Michigan goes down. Certainly takes the heat off of Duke a bit and helps Duke's SOS/RPI with a nice win by OSU.

[moonpie23]

guess we can close this thread........

[Newton_14]

Let the record show that as of 3:45 PM Eastern Std time, on Sunday January 13th, 2013, there are no remaining NCAA Men's Basketball teams with no losses. The 76 Hoosier team pops the cork on the bubbly once again. :) (Oh wait that's a 72 Miami ritual) :cool:

Thread is now closed.