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pfrduke
12-03-2012, 11:12 AM
December is upon us and only two teams in the conference are left unscathed. Duke has been discussed plenty on this board (and rightfully so), but Virginia Tech is deserving of some recognition following a big win over previously undefeated Oklahoma State. Up until the game against the Cowboys, the road for the Hokies hadn't been particularly hard, and the defense has shown signs of being porous all season, but their offense has been extremely effective due in large part to Erick Green. Green has been a rarity on the season to date - a very high volume, very high efficiency scorer. He uses over 28% of the Hokies' possessions and has an offensive rating of 132.2. He doesn't turn the ball over, he gets to the line a ton (73 attempts in 7 games), and he shoots well from everywhere (.587 from 2, .375 from 3, and .877 at the line). The supporting cast has helped - Jarell Eddie is having a career year so far, Cadarian Raines is really working the offensive glass - but this team will go as far as Erick Green carries them (which, to date, looks like it could be to the NCAA tournament).

Last week, all things considered, was pretty good for the conference. 6-6 against the Big Ten was better than expected (a moral victory if not an actual one in the challenge), and the 7-2 record over the weekend is also pretty strong considering the competition - Wake's loss at Richmond by 2 is actually an impressive result, and only FSU (losing at home to Mercer - ugh) really disappointed. 18 more games on the slate this week with some impressive matchups and more chances for the ACC to score important victories. Let's take a look at the slate.

Monday is dark.

Tuesday has three contests involving fairly evenly matched teams. Georgia Tech is the biggest favorite of the night against Georgia, as the conference looks to keep up its strong record against the SEC. NC State takes on a UConn team that, but for the win over Michigan State, has looked lackluster - they barely beat Wake, Quinnipiac took them to double OT, they scored just 61 points in a 73 possession game against New Hampshire, etc. This one will be under the bright lights of the Garden during the Jimmy V Classic, though, and UConn has a thing for playing well at MSG. Finally, BC plays the role of home underdog to the Harvard Crimson (which, believe it or not, is looking to make this the 5th year in a row with a victory over BC, all of which have come in Chestnut Hill).

[83]Georgia Tech hosts [106]Georgia
[151]Boston College hosts [94]Harvard
[29]NC State vs. [53]Connecticut in New York City

Wednesday is highlighted by two more ACC-SEC matchups. The Florida-Florida State game hasn't gone well for the Noles in recent years, as they're winless since 2009, and this year's Florida team may be the best version over that period - they've been absolutely destroying teams so far this year, with wins by 49, 18, 19, 18, 13, and 33. Those aren't all against the little sisters of the poor, either - Florida has beaten Wisconsin, Marquette, Middle Tennessee, and Central Florida, all teams that score out in Pomeroy's top 85. Nothing FSU has done this season suggests that they'll be winners on Wednesday, which would make the upset all the more impressive. The Cavaliers host the Volunteers as Virginia hopes to build momentum of a big win over Wisconsin, while Tennessee just hopes it's in a more watchable affair than Saturday's 37-36 game against Georgetown.

[38]Virginia hosts [53]Tennessee
[60]Florida State hosts [2]Florida
[207]Wake Forest hosts [271]High Point
[67]Maryland hosts [345]Maryland-Eastern Shore

Thursday and Friday are dark

Saturday puts up a ten-spot of ACC contests with basketball running from 1 in the afternoon until sometime after 10. The two biggest games involve the ACC's two undefeated teams, both of which will be coming off a week of rest. Duke travels to East Rutherford to take on an undefeated (if it gets by Villanova mid-week) Temple squad that took down the Devils in Philly last January. Virginia Tech also hits the road, heading to Morgantown to take on a West Virginia squad that's had some bumps against strong competition (including a big blowout loss to Gonzaga). Slightly less marquee (only because the Tigers look like a less threatening team without Milton Jennings) is the nightcap that has Clemson playing host to a very talented Arizona team. Most of the rest of the games are of the less-challenging variety, although Wake could score a nice victory for the conference if it manages to take down Seton Hall.

[29]NC State hosts [115]Cleveland State
[151]Boston College hosts [198]St. Francis (NY)
[67]Maryland hosts [343]South Carolina State
[3]Duke vs. [57]Temple in East Rutherford
[38]Virginia hosts [332]Mississippi Valley State
[64]Virginia Tech at [58]West Virginia
[83]Georgia Tech hosts [275]UNC-Wilmington
[207]Wake Forest hosts [71]Seton Hall
[18]North Carolina hosts [224]East Tennessee State
[52]Clemson hosts [15]Arizona

Sunday lets the Noles close out the week against Maine. FSU could be on a 3-game home losing streak by then, so the 2-5 Black Bears will be a welcome sight.

[60]Florida State hosts [250]Maine

ACC Non-Conference Record: 61-23
ACC vs. BCS Opponents: 14-11
Atlantic 10: 5-3
Atlantic Sun: 6-2
Big XII: 1-2
Big East: 1-1
Big South: 6-0
Big Ten: 8-6
Big West: 1-0
Colonial: 4-2
CUSA: 4-0
Horizon: 2-0
MAAC: 2-1
MAC: 2-0
NEC: 1-1
OVC: 1-0
Pac-12: 0-1
Patriot: 1-0
SEC: 4-1
Southern: 4-1
Southland: 1-0
Sun Belt: 3-1
West Coast: 2-1
WAC: 1-0
Non D-I: 1-0

davekay1971
12-05-2012, 12:58 PM
NC State had a solid game against UConn and one that offered Gottfried plenty to build upon. The team should leave the Jimmy V game with improved confidence, but also with plenty of learning points about how they can improve.

They came out badly. The team seemed tentative, as if they weren't sure how to attack on offense, and they played defense almost as if they were scared. After getting shelled by Ok St, barely surviving UNCA, and letting Michigan get out to a commanding early lead they couldn't quite overcome, State clearly was a team playing without confidence at the beginning last night.

The offensive ineptitude was startling. State would pass the ball once or twice, then someone would seem to decide to just go for a contested shot. The result: UConn jumping out to a 20-9 lead. Then State seemed to figure out how to work together on offense. The defense improved, and State managed to tie things up by halftime.

The second half was the Howell show. Leslie and Brown both ended up with more points (and Leslie has shown he can be an absolutely great junk-point getter when he's involved - he has a great knack for getting a rebound or loose ball and putting it in). Howell, however, showed some nice inside moves and dominated the lane in the second half. Playing the offense through him seemed to really open things up for State and get the whole offense in synch. It remained a close game till the end, but, in a departure from the Sidney Lowe days, State was the better team in the end-game.

State has plenty to work on. Their defense is inconsistent and needs to get better. The offense sputters at times and seems to turn into one-on-five plays where guys honestly don't seem sure of how to generate open looks for each other. But the team looked better, by far, than they did in their other two games against good opponents.

CDu
12-05-2012, 01:15 PM
NC State had a solid game against UConn and one that offered Gottfried plenty to build upon. The team should leave the Jimmy V game with improved confidence, but also with plenty of learning points about how they can improve.

They came out badly. The team seemed tentative, as if they weren't sure how to attack on offense, and they played defense almost as if they were scared. After getting shelled by Ok St, barely surviving UNCA, and letting Michigan get out to a commanding early lead they couldn't quite overcome, State clearly was a team playing without confidence at the beginning last night.

The offensive ineptitude was startling. State would pass the ball once or twice, then someone would seem to decide to just go for a contested shot. The result: UConn jumping out to a 20-9 lead. Then State seemed to figure out how to work together on offense. The defense improved, and State managed to tie things up by halftime.

The second half was the Howell show. Leslie and Brown both ended up with more points (and Leslie has shown he can be an absolutely great junk-point getter when he's involved - he has a great knack for getting a rebound or loose ball and putting it in). Howell, however, showed some nice inside moves and dominated the lane in the second half. Playing the offense through him seemed to really open things up for State and get the whole offense in synch. It remained a close game till the end, but, in a departure from the Sidney Lowe days, State was the better team in the end-game.

State has plenty to work on. Their defense is inconsistent and needs to get better. The offense sputters at times and seems to turn into one-on-five plays where guys honestly don't seem sure of how to generate open looks for each other. But the team looked better, by far, than they did in their other two games against good opponents.

I saw only the first half of the State/UConn game, and agree with your comments about the offensive issues. It's frankly a bit surprising, because I expected the offense to be more productive with a more experienced Brown and two better ballhandlers (Purvis and Lewis) replacing their predecessors (Williams and Johnson). But they make lots of mistakes, turn it over too much, and don't seem to have a good plan of action. I didn't see the second half, but it sounds like they played much better.

Part of the problem is that their second-best player (Leslie) is not a high-IQ player. He's unbelievably athletic, and that masks some really bad decision-making at times. But not always. Similarly, Brown is a really good player, but not a natural PG. He is doing it out of necessity, but you can see his struggle between distributing and scoring, trying to play within the offense and trying to take over the game.

There is a lot of potential with this team, especially if Purvis and Brown can figure out how to work together on offense. Those two could be an incredibly prolific tandem - as big and as talented as any starting backcourt in the country. Glad to see them notch an out-of-conference win against a decent team in what was largely a road game. Hopefully they can build off that (except for when they play us, of course).

pfrduke
12-05-2012, 01:24 PM
The second half was the Howell show. Leslie and Brown both ended up with more points (and Leslie has shown he can be an absolutely great junk-point getter when he's involved - he has a great knack for getting a rebound or loose ball and putting it in). Howell, however, showed some nice inside moves and dominated the lane in the second half. Playing the offense through him seemed to really open things up for State and get the whole offense in synch. It remained a close game till the end, but, in a departure from the Sidney Lowe days, State was the better team in the end-game.

There's an argument to be made that CJ Leslie is actually just the third-best player in State's frontcourt, at least on the offensive side of the ball. Richard Howell and TJ Warren have both had very strong starts to the season - both are converting from inside at an extremely high rate, shooting 69% on 2s, and both pull in more offensive rebounds and turn the ball over less frequently than Leslie. Howell's been used more frequently and is scoring at a much higher efficiency (Warren has a lower usage rate, but also much higher efficiency). Just in pure points terms, both have more points than Leslie in fewer minutes. Some of this may be due to the fact that defenses pay more attention to Leslie than the others, giving them easier opportunities to score. But given what Howell and Warren have done with those opportunities, it may be worth rethinking those strategies.

pfrduke
12-05-2012, 01:31 PM
Finally, BC plays the role of home underdog to the Harvard Crimson (which, believe it or not, is looking to make this the 5th year in a row with a victory over BC, all of which have come in Chestnut Hill).

So, perhaps not surprisingly, BC lost to Harvard last night. Disappointing for the Eagles, good for Tommy Amaker's team, etc. But for me it raises a couple of interesting questions that I'm hoping someone with more time on their hands than I have can dig up answers to:



Has an ACC team ever lost games in 5 consecutive seasons to the same non-conference opponent? If so, what is the record for that kind of streak?
If anyone other than BC has such a streak, did any of them lose all 5 of the games at home?
Finally (and even if someone else has a longer streak under #s 1 and 2, I'm sure this one is BC's all by itself), has anyone else in the ACC lost 5 straight in 5 seasons to an Ivy League team? Has anyone lost 5 straight to an Ivy League team at all?


Basically, what I'm trying to say is, BC's 5-year home losing streak to Harvard is likely an unprecedented show of non-conference futility.

Olympic Fan
12-05-2012, 02:10 PM
So, perhaps not surprisingly, BC lost to Harvard last night. Disappointing for the Eagles, good for Tommy Amaker's team, etc. But for me it raises a couple of interesting questions that I'm hoping someone with more time on their hands than I have can dig up answers to:



Has an ACC team ever lost games in 5 consecutive seasons to the same non-conference opponent? If so, what is the record for that kind of streak?
If anyone other than BC has such a streak, did any of them lose all 5 of the games at home?
Finally (and even if someone else has a longer streak under #s 1 and 2, I'm sure this one is BC's all by itself), has anyone else in the ACC lost 5 straight in 5 seasons to an Ivy League team? Has anyone lost 5 straight to an Ivy League team at all?


Basically, what I'm trying to say is, BC's 5-year home losing streak to Harvard is likely an unprecedented show of non-conference futility.

Interesting question ...

I have easy access to Duke's records, so I can say that Duke has never lost five straight at home to a non-conference opponent. But the Devils HAVE lost five straight years to the same non-conference foe. And it was before the birth of the ACC.

Duke did lose five straight to Navy between 1944 and 1948, but four of those five were away. Weird really, but 17 of the first 19 Duke-Navy games were in Annapolis. I guess Eddie Cameron, the head coach and later AD liked visiting the area (he was from there). And Duke recruited the Washington-Baltimore area for a long time -- going back to Bill Werber and Joe Croson.

Tough loss for BC, but the ACC did beat two BCS teams last night -- NC State over UConn and Georgia Tech over Georgia.

That improves the ACC to 16-11 against BCS opponents. That's really quite good. A couple of more on tap tonight. FSU will be a big underdog against Florida, even in Tallahassee. But I think Virginia Tech will be a favorite vs. Tennessee in Blacksburg.

We've got three more BCS battles Saturday -- Virginia Tech at West Virginia, Seton Hall at Wake and Arizona at Clemson. That's going to be a tough day for the ACC.

dball
12-05-2012, 02:36 PM
But I think Virginia Tech will be a favorite vs. Tennessee in Blacksburg.



Va Tech probably would be favored but Tenn is playing UVA in Charlottesville.

CDu
12-05-2012, 03:03 PM
So, perhaps not surprisingly, BC lost to Harvard last night. Disappointing for the Eagles, good for Tommy Amaker's team, etc. But for me it raises a couple of interesting questions that I'm hoping someone with more time on their hands than I have can dig up answers to:



Has an ACC team ever lost games in 5 consecutive seasons to the same non-conference opponent? If so, what is the record for that kind of streak?
If anyone other than BC has such a streak, did any of them lose all 5 of the games at home?
Finally (and even if someone else has a longer streak under #s 1 and 2, I'm sure this one is BC's all by itself), has anyone else in the ACC lost 5 straight in 5 seasons to an Ivy League team? Has anyone lost 5 straight to an Ivy League team at all?


Basically, what I'm trying to say is, BC's 5-year home losing streak to Harvard is likely an unprecedented show of non-conference futility.

FSU lost to Florida 6 times in a row from 1998 to 2004. Those were not all at home, however. Three were in Gainesville, three in Tallahassee. Florida was pretty good in some of those years, though, so it's probably not fair to compare that to BC's streak against Harvard.

loran16
12-05-2012, 07:44 PM
1. UVA looks seriously impressive so far - how did this team lose to Delaware?

2. Wake Forest vs High Point.....oh cmon Wake.

3. UF-FSU is looking like more of an embarrassment to the conference than the football matchup.

Olympic Fan
12-05-2012, 07:51 PM
Va Tech probably would be favored but Tenn is playing UVA in Charlottesville.

Good catch ... I misread the schedule.

But Virginia seems to be taking care of business, up 25-16 at the half.

That's interesting because it means at least three straight halves were Tennessee has failed to score 20 -- they went 18-18 in a 37-36 loss to Georgetown and now 16 in the opener vs. UVa.

Maryland is also cruising against UMES, but Wake had to hit a 3 at he buzzer to take a 31-29 halftime lead on High Point and FSU is getting killed by Florida.

PS About Virginia's improvement -- a lot of it has to do with the return of Jontel Evans who has only returned in the last week from a broken foot. Their alternate PG (Brogden) is still out -- probably out for the entire season. That makes a difference. And so does the fact that Delaware is not nearly as inept as Duke made them look.

pfrduke
12-05-2012, 07:53 PM
1. UVA looks seriously impressive so far - how did this team lose to Delaware?

2. Wake Forest vs High Point.....oh cmon Wake.

3. UF-FSU is looking like more of an embarrassment to the conference than the football matchup.

Related point - Tennessee has scored 52 points in its last 60 minutes of basketball. Yeesh.

(edit: or, basically what OF said above)

CDu
12-05-2012, 08:01 PM
1. UVA looks seriously impressive so far - how did this team lose to Delaware?

2. Wake Forest vs High Point.....oh cmon Wake.

3. UF-FSU is looking like more of an embarrassment to the conference than the football matchup.

I felt that FSU (like UNC) was being overrated by many coming into the season. Like UNC, they lost a ton of their identity last year. They lost all 3 of their centers, their starting point guard, and one of the better defenders and perimeter shooters. The best returning player (Snaer) is a good defender and shooter, but can't create anything for himself or others. I felt like they had a lot of questions that didn't have clear answers.

Well, they're playing worse than I even expected. They are getting absolutely no PG play. They have no shotblocking presence. They aren't pounding the defensive glass, either. And they seem to be lacking leadership. Snaer is turning the ball over a bunch and shooting under 40%.

Maybe things will get better as the season progresses. But without an inside presence or steady PG play, I have trouble seeing it happen.

CDu
12-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Completely off-topic, but while watching this FSU debacle I heard the term "bronx cheer" misapplied. FSU made a basket, and the home crowd gave a sarcastic cheer. The announcer said "and a bronx cheer from the FSU crowd." I was raised to understand a bronx cheer as a boo (or worse - more of a farting noise), not a cheer. This is the third time in a few weeks that I've heard a sportscaster misuse (at least, I believe this to be misused) the term. Weird.

Anyway, carry on.

Newton_14
12-05-2012, 09:09 PM
Good catch ... I misread the schedule.

But Virginia seems to be taking care of business, up 25-16 at the half.

That's interesting because it means at least three straight halves were Tennessee has failed to score 20 -- they went 18-18 in a 37-36 loss to Georgetown and now 16 in the opener vs. UVa.

Maryland is also cruising against UMES, but Wake had to hit a 3 at he buzzer to take a 31-29 halftime lead on High Point and FSU is getting killed by Florida.

PS About Virginia's improvement -- a lot of it has to do with the return of Jontel Evans who has only returned in the last week from a broken foot. Their alternate PG (Brogden) is still out -- probably out for the entire season. That makes a difference. And so does the fact that Delaware is not nearly as inept as Duke made them look.


Who is this "maryland" you speak of? maryland is dead to me. I say we stop tracking them in these threads. Ignore and Exile!:mad:


In ACC news, agree on UVA and Delaware. Delaware has played other BCS opponents really well, much better than their showing against Duke. I went into CIS Saturday expecting a competitive game where Duke would pull away in the second half, and was much surprised at Duke absolutely destroying them. Maybe Delaware had an off game, or maybe the Duke performance was much more impressive than we realize.

Not surprised at all that FSU is getting creamed by Florida. Even Hamilton's better teams have always played horrible in Nov/Dec. I have never understood it. Then they look like world beaters against the better ACC teams in conference play. Weird.

uh_no
12-05-2012, 09:58 PM
FSU just got completely anihilated by florida...25 point loss at home....they got outscored 35-15 in the first half

ouch

is VT the second best team in the ACC? might be looking that way right now

ice-9
12-05-2012, 10:55 PM
Looks like it's Duke and then a tier of UNC, NC State, VT, Maryland, Miami and UVA. The latter two look much better now that they're moving past injuries.

Is the rest of the ACC even worth talking about? The above seven might be the ACC's tournament teams.

Maybe Clemson or FSU can sneak in there.

gw67
12-06-2012, 08:18 AM
Completely off-topic, but while watching this FSU debacle I heard the term "bronx cheer" misapplied. FSU made a basket, and the home crowd gave a sarcastic cheer. The announcer said "and a bronx cheer from the FSU crowd." I was raised to understand a bronx cheer as a boo (or worse - more of a farting noise), not a cheer. This is the third time in a few weeks that I've heard a sportscaster misuse (at least, I believe this to be misused) the term. Weird.

Anyway, carry on.

CDu,

For what it is worth, I agree with you on the bronx cheer.

gw67

davekay1971
12-06-2012, 08:37 AM
Looks like it's Duke and then a tier of UNC, NC State, VT, Maryland, Miami and UVA. The latter two look much better now that they're moving past injuries.

Is the rest of the ACC even worth talking about? The above seven might be the ACC's tournament teams.

Maybe Clemson or FSU can sneak in there.

I think that's not a bad early assessment. Right now it's probably something like (to use the SI.com way of looking at it):

Locks: Duke, NC State, UNC.
I include UNC in there because, unless they have a losing record, the name on the front of the jersey almost guarantees them an at-large bid. They haven't beaten anybody yet, and the 2 quality teams they've played have spanked them and sent them home crying. The same would have been true for NC State right up until halftime of the Michigan game. Their strong 2nd half performance at Michigan, then their quality win over UConn, indicate that State, though they may not live up to the preseason top-10 hype, should be a solid top 25 team and securely in the tournament.

Probably in: VT, UVa
Obviously based on early potential, but...VT already has a couple nice resume-building wins, and UVa has their win at Wisconsin on their resume. Seth Greenberg, in all his time at VT, was never able to put quality early season wins on his team's tournament resume the way this year's team has. If VT and UVa continue to perform well in the preseason and put together solid ACC seasons (finish top 5-6 in the conference), they'll probably be in.

Work to do: Miami, Clemson. Miami's Mich St. win is a solid resume builder. Clemson looks promising, but they haven't got the notable win they need in the early season.

Not regarded as an ACC team anymore: Maryland. Their annual bubble standing can count toward the Big 1? from here on.

gw67
12-06-2012, 09:03 AM
Maryland and Virginia are both playing better than most predicted and each has cupcakes remaining on their OOC schedule. It would not surprise me if the Terps entered the ACC part of their schedule with a 12-1 record and Virginia at 11-2. I've watched Maryland play several games and they are deeper and more talented than any Maryland team in the past several years. They share the ball and are an extraordinary rebounding team. Unfortunately for them, they are a poor shooting team and turn the ball over too much. Virginia is what you expect. They hold the ball, play good defense and try to keep the game close so they have a chance to win. They are not particularly good in any one area except for foul shooting. Maryland was picked 6th and Virginia 7th in pre-season. I think the Terps will wind up in 4th or 5th while Virginia will finish 6th.

gw67

NSDukeFan
12-06-2012, 10:11 AM
Who is this "maryland" you speak of? maryland is dead to me. I say we stop tracking them in these threads. Ignore and Exile!:mad:


In ACC news, agree on UVA and Delaware. Delaware has played other BCS opponents really well, much better than their showing against Duke. I went into CIS Saturday expecting a competitive game where Duke would pull away in the second half, and was much surprised at Duke absolutely destroying them. Maybe Delaware had an off game, or maybe the Duke performance was much more impressive than we realize.

Not surprised at all that FSU is getting creamed by Florida. Even Hamilton's better teams have always played horrible in Nov/Dec. I have never understood it. Then they look like world beaters against the better ACC teams in conference play. Weird.

I very much doubt FSU will be contending for an ACC title this year based on their early results. I am not ready to rule them out of an NCAA berth and strong ACC season as I agree with Newton_14 that they tend to play better later in the year and will, of course, give Duke a very tough game when they play each other.

Duvall
12-06-2012, 11:34 AM
Maryland and Virginia are both playing better than most predicted and each has cupcakes remaining on their OOC schedule. It would not surprise me if the Terps entered the ACC part of their schedule with a 12-1 record and Virginia at 11-2. I've watched Maryland play several games and they are deeper and more talented than any Maryland team in the past several years. They share the ball and are an extraordinary rebounding team. Unfortunately for them, they are a poor shooting team and turn the ball over too much. Virginia is what you expect. They hold the ball, play good defense and try to keep the game close so they have a chance to win. They are not particularly good in any one area except for foul shooting. Maryland was picked 6th and Virginia 7th in pre-season. I think the Terps will wind up in 4th or 5th while Virginia will finish 6th.

gw67

Isn't it still a bit early to draw too many conclusions about Maryland given their softer-than-soft schedule to date? Their most "impressive" outing thus far was becoming the only major conference team to fail to beat Kentucky this year.

CDu
12-06-2012, 11:48 AM
Isn't it still a bit early to draw too many conclusions about Maryland given their softer-than-soft schedule to date? Their most "impressive" outing thus far was becoming the only major conference team to fail to beat Kentucky this year.

Maryland hasn't done much, that's true. But a 4th or 5th place ranking in the ACC this year isn't saying much, either. Several of the conference teams have unequivocally stunk so far.

Based on performances thus far, I'd say:
1. Duke
2. VT
3. NCSU (though I suspect they'll overtake VT by midseason once they figure things out)
4. Miami (they've looked solid since getting Scott back from suspension)
5. UNC
6. Maryland
7. UVa (really nice win at Wisconsin; not so good losing to Delaware and at George Mason)
8. Clemson
9. FSU (and this may be generous)
10. GT
11. Wake
12. BC

The Jennings situation at Clemson will determine whether they can move up or not. Without him, I think they'll fade. With him, they're potentially interesting in the middle of the ACC.

gw67
12-06-2012, 01:55 PM
Maryland hasn't done much, that's true. But a 4th or 5th place ranking in the ACC this year isn't saying much, either. Several of the conference teams have unequivocally stunk so far.

Based on performances thus far, I'd say:
1. Duke
2. VT
3. NCSU (though I suspect they'll overtake VT by midseason once they figure things out)
4. Miami (they've looked solid since getting Scott back from suspension)
5. UNC
6. Maryland
7. UVa (really nice win at Wisconsin; not so good losing to Delaware and at George Mason)
8. Clemson
9. FSU (and this may be generous)
10. GT
11. Wake
12. BC

The Jennings situation at Clemson will determine whether they can move up or not. Without him, I think they'll fade. With him, they're potentially interesting in the middle of the ACC.

My thoughts on the Terps are based on a comparison of this year's team with Maryland teams of the past ten years. This year's team is deeper, stronger on the boards, shares the ball like some of the better Terps teams and puts away the cupcakes rather than struggle or even lose to them. I don't see them battling for the top of the ACC but they have the potential to be competitive against the best and winding up in the upper half of the league. I forgot about Miami and expect Tech to wind up about the same as Maryland over a 16 game schedule. Miami could be a darkhorse, they have size and can shoot the ball.

Assuming the strength of the ACC is as shown above, the Devils will play each of the 2 through 6 teams home and away. UNC will play four of the teams twice each while State only plays Duke and UNC home and away. The other three teams play three of the five home and away. Based on this simplified, early season analysis, the Devils may have a tougher conference schedule than their nearest competitors.

gw67

sagegrouse
12-06-2012, 02:56 PM
My thoughts on the Terps are based on a comparison of this year's team with Maryland teams of the past ten years. This year's team is deeper, stronger on the boards, shares the ball like some of the better Terps teams and puts away the cupcakes rather than struggle or even lose to them. I don't see them battling for the top of the ACC but they have the potential to be competitive against the best and winding up in the upper half of the league. I forgot about Miami and expect Tech to wind up about the same as Maryland over a 16 game schedule. Miami could be a darkhorse, they have size and can shoot the ball.

Assuming the strength of the ACC is as shown above, the Devils will play each of the 2 through 6 teams home and away. UNC will play four of the teams twice each while State only plays Duke and UNC home and away. The other three teams play three of the five home and away. Based on this simplified, early season analysis, the Devils may have a tougher conference schedule than their nearest competitors.

gw67

The thing about Maryland is that 7-2 Alex Len will be a lottery pick in the NBA draft. If Turgeon can coach up the other guys into some semblance of a team, they will have a puncher's chance against anybody.

How long has it been since the Terps had a center ranked so highly? Len Elmore or Tom McMillen? Chris Wilcox was the #8 pick in 2002 but not really a center despite being 6-10 (218 pounds).

sagegrouse

Olympic Fan
12-08-2012, 11:17 PM
ACC went 7 of 10 in Saturday's games, but the record is really not that good.

The ACC won a lot of mismatches, but lost its three games against BCS opponents.

Virginia Tech played West Virginia tough -- losing when Erick Green's 16-foot game-winning jumper missed at the buzzer.

Clemson overcame a terrible start and had unbeaten Arizona on the ropes, but let the game get away in the final minutes.

The worst was Wake Forest, which had Big East patsy Seton Hall down all afternoon. The Deacs were up 13 with 12 minutes to play. Then they let it get away, losing 71-67.

Duke's win was the only thing close to a quality win for the ACC today.