Coach K "We should no longer do the ACC-Big 10 Challenge"

[Newton_14]

On his daily Duke Basketball Report with Bob Harris today, Coach K was fairly blunt in first saying he does not know where the ACC-Big 10 Challenge is headed, but he said "in my opinion, we should not do it anymore, because they are taking our teams". Note the plural. Could have been just a figure of speech, but I thought the use of the plural there was an implication that the Big 10 is indeed pursuing additional ACC teams. So maybe the Ga Tech rumors have merit.

The link is below. All of the daily Duke Basketball Reports are posted on GoDuke.com if you have any trouble with the link.

Link (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&db_oem_id=4200)

[ForkFondler]

On his daily Duke Basketball Report with Bob Harris today, Coach K was fairly blunt in first saying he does not know where the ACC-Big 10 Challenge is headed, but he said "in my opinion, we should not do it anymore, because they are taking our teams". Note the plural. Could have been just a figure of speech, but I thought the use of the plural there was an implication that the Big 10 is indeed pursuing additional ACC teams. So maybe the Ga Tech rumors have merit.

The plurality could mean "they have taken Maryland and they are trying to take more" rather than GT in particular.

[Newton_14]

The plurality could mean "they have taken Maryland and they are trying to take more" rather than GT in particular.

Oh totally agree, and the GT thing could be all malarkey. I do think the use of the plural, combined with his comment earlier that the league is vulnerable, means they are chasing other ACC schools beyond Maryland. I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling.

I also suspect this was the last Challenge too. K has power. If he wants it shut down, I would imagine it gets shut down.

[gep]

Wasn't there something earlier that even unc is mentioned for the Big 10?

[uh_no]

Oh totally agree, and the GT thing could be all malarkey. I do think the use of the plural, combined with his comment earlier that the league is vulnerable, means they are chasing other ACC schools beyond Maryland. I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling.

I also suspect this was the last Challenge too. K has power. If he wants it shut down, I would imagine it gets shut down.

It might get hairy with the TV contract....if i'm not mistaken, this was the first year of a new contract. It may or may not be easy to back out? who knows. I'd imagine if the big 10 is taking ACC teams, then when those teams go to play against the ACC again, that's a very easy sell for ESPN

[-bdbd]

Wasn't there something earlier that even unc is mentioned for the Big 10?

'have heard Ga Tech, NC@ch and UVA all rumored at some point in the last week. Nothing credible though.

Gotta say I really agree with K on this. How can you "partner" with another conference that is stealing the food off of your table?!! We'll find another partner - playing against the ACC is very attractive for almost any league. Maybe play against the Big 12, or SEC (now that the Big East is essentially gone, or at least absorbed into the ACC.....). Personally, I'd really love to see ACC play the Pac12 to contrast the two coasts (and provide a truly national TV audience); but I think Big12 is the most obvious, if not the SEC (but KY can't play both Duke AND NC every year...). :confused:

[sporthenry]

It might get hairy with the TV contract....if i'm not mistaken, this was the first year of a new contract. It may or may not be easy to back out? who knows. I'd imagine if the big 10 is taking ACC teams, then when those teams go to play against the ACC again, that's a very easy sell for ESPN

I can't find anything about a new TV deal. I also can't find much about who sets the match ups. So we can just sacrifice BC/Wake to play OSU/Indiana and have Syracuse/Pitt dismantle the Northwesterns and save Duke/UNC from even participating.

I'm sure there are ways to manipulate it and I doubt the ESPN cares much as long as it is replaced with another challenge. The BE will be on life support so they can do either an ACC/SEC or ACC/B12 challenge.

[BigWayne]

B12 and SEC are already reportedly working on a challenge between themselves. I guess they got over the moves of MO and TA&M. If the ACC wants to do a challenge, they are stuck with the B10 unless they want to do the cross country thing, which apparently did not work between the P12 and B12 in the past.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/67075/3-point-shot-challenge-for-big-12-sec

[oldnavy]

I mentioned in a post on another thread that the ACC doesn't mean anything to me anylonger. It's sad, because growing up I was all about the ACC and pulled for just about every other school (except UNC) whenever they played out of conference games.

Now, with age, and the years of ACC schools (and just about everyone else in the NCAA) showing Duke nothing but hate, I couldn't care less for any of them as a collective. I still will pull for individual schools in match ups, but the whole conference loyalty thing is long gone with me.

I mean, am I suppossed to all of a sudden become a Pitt fan just because the grass was greener for the money folks at Pitt??? Louisiville?? I think not. And besides, in two years they may be part of the "Huge East of the Mississippi Conference".

GO DUKE, is all I care about...

[JStuart]

I mean, am I suppossed to all of a sudden become a Pitt fan just because the grass was greener for the money folks at Pitt??? Louisiville?? I think not. And besides, in two years they may be part of the "Huge East of the Mississippi Conference".

GO DUKE, is all I care about...

I couldn't agree more with the way you phrased it, OldNavy. Looking at it from the other side, will we have a sudden burst of love from the Pitt, Syracuse, and Loo-avull fans, celebrating the whatever-it-is anniversary of the ACC in the future? Hmmm.

[ForkFondler]

If the ACC goes to 16 teams, then the challenge could be interdivisional. Have a four game-per-team series in December with seeded teams so that the top four in each division play each other and the bottom four play each other. Then make the regular season comprised entirely of home-and-home divisional games.

With 14 teams, I say ditch the challenge and play a 19 game two division schedule instead.

[moonpie23]

I mentioned in a post on another thread that the ACC doesn't mean anything to me anylonger. It's sad, because growing up I was all about the ACC and pulled for just about every other school (except UNC) whenever they played out of conference games.

Now, with age, and the years of ACC schools (and just about everyone else in the NCAA) showing Duke nothing but hate, I couldn't care less for any of them as a collective. I still will pull for individual schools in match ups, but the whole conference loyalty thing is long gone with me.

I mean, am I suppossed to all of a sudden become a Pitt fan just because the grass was greener for the money folks at Pitt??? Louisiville?? I think not. And besides, in two years they may be part of the "Huge East of the Mississippi Conference".

GO DUKE, is all I care about...


my son and i were going through a mock ranking of the conference the other day and he had to remind me about pitt and syracuse.....

[wilko]

B1G whatever so what... who needs 'em?
We can have our OWN ACC/Big East challenge and never have to step out of conference...

[mkline09]

Just bring back the Dixie Classic and call it a day.

[pamtar]

Just bring back the Dixie Classic and call it a day.

Beat me to it.

Maybe even expand it and invite 2-4 choice teams every year.

[jimsumner]

Here's my plan. The Big Ten poaches enough ACC schools to get to 20.

It divides itself into two geographical divisions.

The eastern one is called the Atlantic Coast Division.

Each division plays an 18-game, double round-robin.

The top four teams in each division play in a conference tournament. Hold it in, say, Greensboro. Maybe Charlotte.

Specify that only UNC alums can be conference commissioners. Okay, that one might need some tweaking.

Only slightly sarcastic.

[Class of '94]

'have heard Ga Tech, NC@ch and UVA all rumored at some point in the last week. Nothing credible though.

Gotta say I really agree with K on this. How can you "partner" with another conference that is stealing the food off of your table?!! We'll find another partner - playing against the ACC is very attractive for almost any league. Maybe play against the Big 12, or SEC (now that the Big East is essentially gone, or at least absorbed into the ACC.....). Personally, I'd really love to see ACC play the Pac12 to contrast the two coasts (and provide a truly national TV audience); but I think Big12 is the most obvious, if not the SEC (but KY can't play both Duke AND NC every year...). :confused:

David Glenn said on his show yesterday and his associated accsports twitter feed tweeted out as well that several schools have been targeted by the BIG 10 and pre-approved by the BIG 10 for membership. It doesn't mean that the targeted schools have made any overtures or solicitation to the BIG 10; but rather these schools are on that conference's wish list. And apparently (similar to MD), DG had an atlanta-based sports writer, who is a GT insider, on his show and said that apparently the Big 10 has been making pitches to GT for 2 years because they really want to capture the Atlanta-GA market for their BTN (which is already there btw); they contend that they have a large alumni base in that region; and if GT joins them, they can go from charging 10 cents per subscriber to $1.10 per subscriber; and GT will share in the profits. So again, similar to MD, it's a money pitch. Up to this point, GT has not returned the BIG 10 overtures; and the insider does not believe GT. The insider also said that he didn't see the ACC collapsing unless "the crown jewels [of the ACC as he phrased it], UNC and Duke" left for another conference like the BIG. So I agree that K most likely was implying that the BIG is trying to poach more schools (which has been no surprise to anyone); and for that I agree that the ACC should stop the challenge and go with someone else. Plus, it would be very awkward to play MD as a member of the other side. At least in the case of the Missouri and A&M, it appeared to be more above board between that those schools were going to the SEC so that the BIG 12 could better plan for it; and the poaching stopped at those two schools whereas the BIG hasn't stopped at MD and has continued to be very stealthy and under the table about their attempts to poach more teams from the ACC.

And for that and the fact their opening an east coast office (which undoubtedly means they're going to continue to try and sway more ACC teams to their side), I would say "seer ya....." to the ACC/BIG 10 Challenge and find another partner. Why continue to hangout with someone that continues to try to steal your wife from you??

[mkline09]

Beat me to it.

Maybe even expand it and invite 2-4 choice teams every year.

I like that idea a lot. Make it THE premier early season tournament.

[sporthenry]

B12 and SEC are already reportedly working on a challenge between themselves. I guess they got over the moves of MO and TA&M. If the ACC wants to do a challenge, they are stuck with the B10 unless they want to do the cross country thing, which apparently did not work between the P12 and B12 in the past.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/67075/3-point-shot-challenge-for-big-12-sec

Not sure they even need the challenge. It is 1 game out of 13 in the OOC schedule. And it isn't like this provides resume builders for the winner of the Nebraska/Wake or Purdue/Clemson. Duke and UNC would just have to find 1 more game to put on their schedule and after what Duke has already played, not sure they really even needed an OSU win to look impressive.

I've never really heard the committee use the challenge for much of anything. As I said, I think Duke can find a replacement, it would just hurt teams like Va. Tech who would lose a potential bubble match up with a team in the B1G.

[Mudge]

David Glenn said on his show yesterday and his associated accsports twitter feed tweeted out as well that several schools have been targeted by the BIG 10 and pre-approved by the BIG 10 for membership. It doesn't mean that the targeted schools have made any overtures or solicitation to the BIG 10; but rather these schools are on that conference's wish list. And apparently (similar to MD), DG had an atlanta-based sports writer, who is a GT insider, on his show and said that apparently the Big 10 has been making pitches to GT for 2 years because they really want to capture the Atlanta-GA market for their BTN (which is already there btw); they contend that they have a large alumni base in that region; and if GT joins them, they can go from charging 10 cents per subscriber to $1.10 per subscriber; and GT will share in the profits. So again, similar to MD, it's a money pitch. Up to this point, GT has not returned the BIG 10 overtures; and the insider does not believe GT. The insider also said that he didn't see the ACC collapsing unless "the crown jewels [of the ACC as he phrased it], UNC and Duke" left for another conference like the BIG. So I agree that K most likely was implying that the BIG is trying to poach more schools (which has been no surprise to anyone); and for that I agree that the ACC should stop the challenge and go with someone else. Plus, it would be very awkward to play MD as a member of the other side. At least in the case of the Missouri and A&M, it appeared to be more above board between that those schools were going to the SEC so that the BIG 12 could better plan for it; and the poaching stopped at those two schools whereas the BIG hasn't stopped at MD and has continued to be very stealthy and under the table about their attempts to poach more teams from the ACC.

And for that and the fact their opening an east coast office (which undoubtedly means they're going to continue to try and sway more ACC teams to their side), I would say "seer ya....." to the ACC/BIG 10 Challenge and find another partner. Why continue to hangout with someone that continues to try to steal your wife from you??

I notice that there wasn't much crying and whining about "poaching schools" as the ACC stole the Big East's art collection out from under their noses, over the last 10 years-- other than from those ACC fans who didn't want the Big East recruits in the first place-- I didn't hear any complaints about the injustice of it to the Big East-- only the inappropriateness of some of the Big East schools for entry to the ACC... kind of hard to be this hypocritical about it, when we don't observe the Golden Rule ourselves.

As for Crown Jewels (if the ACC has any), you'd be hard-pressed, in this New World Order (which, let's be honest, is the same as the Olde World Order-- ruled by football, because football's money dwarfs basketball's, and everybody that is not at a virtual basketball-only school like Duke knows this right up front), to include Duke on anybody's list of anybody's Crown Jewels-- we don't have a football program worth talking about-- and this has very little to do with our on-field results, but rather, is mostly because of factors directly related to the fundamental nature of our school (small, very select, private school, with relatively few alumni, who are dispersed around the country, and with no fan following other than alums-- heck, being honest, we don't even have a strong percentage of our own alums following the football team)... Miami struggles with nearly the same problem-- and they actually have won a bunch of National Championships over the last 25-30 years.

I think it is wishful thinking on our (Duke alumni) part to think that we are a Crown Jewel for any league-- in some ways, we are more like UConn than UNC, despite UConn actually being a "flagship" (whatever that means) state university. It may be nice for Duke fans to think that "UNC isn't going anywhere without their best buddy/hated rival, Duke", but I wouldn't be too sure about that.

If anything, I would look around at the ACC's footprint and say that UNC and Virginia are the closest thing the ACC has to crown jewels (perhaps followed by Florida State, although they suffer from the same second class status that NC State does-- they're just in a much larger state, with more room for #2), because UNC and UVA are the only premier state universities (with state-wide followings) in the ACC, in two relatively large, prosperous, populated states.

Go through the rest of the ACC, and you can quickly see the problems/secondary nature of the schools: GT-- distant second to UGa in fan following, even in Atlanta; NC State- ditto GT; Clemson- closer than GT or NCSU, but still secondary to USC, and in a smaller population state; VPI- ditto Clemson; FSU- ditto Clemson, but with a bigger state, thus making them possibly more attractive; Miami- Not even second...probably tied for third in fan interest with a host of other Florida state schools, to say nothing of the pro sports; Pitt- ditto Miami; BC- ditto Miami, except the pro sports teams, not the colleges, are definitely in first/second/third/fourth; Syracuse- if you are calling them an NYC school, then ditto BC, otherwise, more like NCSU; Louisville-- city school, with virtually no following outside their (small) city; Wake- ditto Miami, without the pro sports competition; Duke- ditto Wake. Only ND can really be considered a great catch, from a combined fans/TV audience/footprint perspective-- and the ACC doesn't even really own that jewel. If you are the Big 10 or SEC (the two guys calling the shots here now), you really only should be interested in UNC, UVa, and ND-- and UVa is definitely the least of the three-- everybody else has serious flaws. The Big 10 or SEC taking VPI or NCSU would be the equivalent of the ACC taking FSU, GT, or Clemson (which we've already done), when they don't have to settle-- and I don't think they are interested (at least right now) in taking FSU or Clemson or GT.

[Class of '94]

I notice that there wasn't much crying and whining about "poaching schools" as the ACC stole the Big East's art collection out from under their noses, over the last 10 years-- other than from those ACC fans who didn't want the Big East recruits in the first place-- I didn't hear any complaints about the injustice of it to the Big East-- only the inappropriateness of some of the Big East schools for entry to the ACC... kind of hard to be this hypocritical about it, when we don't observe the Golden Rule ourselves.

As for Crown Jewels (if the ACC has any), you'd be hard-pressed, in this New World Order (which, let's be honest, is the same as the Olde World Order-- ruled by football, because football's money dwarfs basketball's, and everybody that is not at a virtual basketball-only school like Duke knows this right up front), to include Duke on anybody's list of anybody's Crown Jewels-- we don't have a football program worth talking about-- and this has very little to do with our on-field results, but rather, is mostly because of factors directly related to the fundamental nature of our school (small, very select, private school, with relatively few alumni, who are dispersed around the country, and with no fan following other than alums-- heck, being honest, we don't even have a strong percentage of our own alums following the football team)... Miami struggles with nearly the same problem-- and they actually have won a bunch of National Championships over the last 25-30 years.

I think it is wishful thinking on our (Duke alumni) part to think that we are a Crown Jewel for any league-- in some ways, we are more like UConn than UNC, despite UConn actually being a "flagship" (whatever that means) state university. It may be nice for Duke fans to think that "UNC isn't going anywhere without their best buddy/hated rival, Duke", but I wouldn't be too sure about that.

If anything, I would look around at the ACC's footprint and say that UNC and Virginia are the closest thing the ACC has to crown jewels (perhaps followed by Florida State, although they suffer from the same second class status that NC State does-- they're just in a much larger state, with more room for #2), because UNC and UVA are the only premier state universities (with state-wide followings) in the ACC, in two relatively large, prosperous, populated states.

Go through the rest of the ACC, and you can quickly see the problems/secondary nature of the schools: GT-- distant second to UGa in fan following, even in Atlanta; NC State- ditto GT; Clemson- closer than GT or NCSU, but still secondary to USC, and in a smaller population state; VPI- ditto Clemson; FSU- ditto Clemson, but with a bigger state, thus making them possibly more attractive; Miami- Not even second...probably tied for third in fan interest with a host of other Florida state schools, to say nothing of the pro sports; Pitt- ditto Miami; BC- ditto Miami, except the pro sports teams, not the colleges, are definitely in first/second/third/fourth; Syracuse- if you are calling them an NYC school, then ditto BC, otherwise, more like NCSU; Louisville-- city school, with virtually no following outside their (small) city; Wake- ditto Miami, without the pro sports competition; Duke- ditto Wake. Only ND can really be considered a great catch, from a combined fans/TV audience/footprint perspective-- and the ACC doesn't even really own that jewel. If you are the Big 10 or SEC (the two guys calling the shots here now), you really only should be interested in UNC, UVa, and ND-- and UVa is definitely the least of the three-- everybody else has serious flaws. The Big 10 or SEC taking VPI or NCSU would be the equivalent of the ACC taking FSU, GT, or Clemson (which we've already done), when they don't have to settle-- and I don't think they are interested (at least right now) in taking FSU or Clemson or GT.

Everything you've said in reference to what the ACC did to the Big East is all true. All I would say is 1) The Big East cancelled the ACC/Big East challenge albeit long before the ACC started taking teams from the Big East:D; and 2) I don't recall any Duke alumni calling Duke a crown jewel of the ACC; the Atlanta sportswriter (who had no ties to Duke) specifically said that about Duke and UNC being the crown jewels of the ACC. That said, their have been several "rumored reports" that the SEC commissioner has wanted Duke and UNC for the SEC for awhile now. As several posters have noted, including Duke with UNC could be the ultimate play to get UNC into another conference.

Regardless, any play for some combination of GT, UVA and UNC imo by the BIG 10 is all about capturing large tv markets to enhance the profit potential of the BTN.

[hurleyfor3]

We could do a Challenge with ourselves! Old-school ACC teams versus "wait they're in the ACC now?" ACC teams.

[buddy]

I notice that there wasn't much crying and whining about "poaching schools" as the ACC stole the Big East's art collection out from under their noses, over the last 10 years-- other than from those ACC fans who didn't want the Big East recruits in the first place-- I didn't hear any complaints about the injustice of it to the Big East-- only the inappropriateness of some of the Big East schools for entry to the ACC... kind of hard to be this hypocritical about it, when we don't observe the Golden Rule ourselves.

Actually, as I remember Duke and UNC voted against the original "poaching" of the Big East, and K had some pretty harsh things to say about it. So it seems to me that he is being consistent--he didn't like it when the ACC "poached", and he doesn't like when the ACC is being "poached".

[nyesq83]

Sorry, we DO have a football team worth talking about. Shame on you.

[wsb3]

I notice that there wasn't much crying and whining about "poaching schools" as the ACC stole the Big East's art collection out from under their noses, over the last 10 years-- other than from those ACC fans who didn't want the Big East recruits in the first place-- I didn't hear any complaints about the injustice of it to the Big East-- only the inappropriateness of some of the Big East schools for entry to the ACC... kind of hard to be this hypocritical about it, when we don't observe the Golden Rule ourselves..

I was waiting for someone to make this point..We are going to be sanctimonious about the Big Ten...Really?

[freshmanjs]

I was waiting for someone to make this point..We are going to be sanctimonious about the Big Ten...Really?

i don't think it's about being sanctimonious. it's clear we are in a battle with the big-10 for schools and markets. why participate in the challenge if it is not in the interest of the ACC to do so?

[JasonEvans]

i don't think it's about being sanctimonious. it's clear we are in a battle with the big-10 for schools and markets. why participate in the challenge if it is not in the interest of the ACC to do so?

With the addition of 4 very strong basketball schools -- Syracuse, Pitt, ND, and Louisville -- while the Big Ten takes a "middle of the ACC pack, at best" Maryland and "bottom of the Big East" Rutgers, I have a suggestion...

Lets continue the ACC-BigTen challenge and just beat the snot out of them. There may be some close matchups among the top 2 or 3 teams in the leagues because the Big Ten does have a few teams who can give anyone a game, but once you get to the middle, the ACC is going to own and crush!!!

Pound them! Show no mercy! Beat them like a drum and rejoice at the lamentations of their women! Heck, I hope that after Duke pounds Indiana (or whoever we play) next year, K walks out onto mid-court and takes a dump on the Big Ten logo.

-Jason "unfortunately, as many have noted, basketball barely matters in all this nonsense" Evans

[gumbomoop]

We might reach a rough consensus on a key issue in this thread, namely, whether on the issue of poaching, K has been consistent or inconsistent/even hypocritical. OP Newton_14 sets up the issue with K's quote:


On his daily Duke Basketball Report with Bob Harris today, Coach K was fairly blunt in first saying he does not know where the ACC-Big 10 Challenge is headed, but he said "in my opinion, we should not do it anymore, because they are taking our teams".

Then Mudge's bluntly titled post, "Pot, Meet Kettle," answers the hypocrisy question, "Yes":


I notice that there wasn't much crying and whining about "poaching schools" as the ACC stole the Big East's art collection out from under their noses.... I didn't hear any complaints about the injustice of it to the Big East.... kind of hard to be this hypocritical about it, when we don't observe the Golden Rule ourselves.

Then wsb3 agrees with Mudge that Duke, presumably K, is being sanctimonious re the poaching issue.


I was waiting for someone to make this point..We are going to be sanctimonious about the Big Ten...Really?

But buddy disagrees, and thinks K has actually been consistent, having criticized the ACC's earlier poaching of BE teams.


Actually, as I remember Duke and UNC voted against the original "poaching" of the Big East, and K had some pretty harsh things to say about it. So it seems to me that he is being consistent--he didn't like it when the ACC "poached", and he doesn't like when the ACC is being "poached".

So:

1. Did K criticize the earlier poaching?

2. If yes, would that satisfy Mudge and wsb3 that K at least, is neither pot, kettle, nor sanctimonious [on this issue]?

3. If no, would other posters, however reluctantly, concede that K seems to be hypocritical - a pot - [on this issue]?

[sagegrouse]

So:

1. Did K criticize the earlier poaching?

2. If yes, would that satisfy Mudge and wsb3 that K at least, is neither pot, kettle, nor sanctimonious [on this issue]?

3. If no, would other posters, however reluctantly, concede that K seems to be hypocritical - a pot - [on this issue]?

IMHO (where the H is silent) the situation when we added BC, VT and Miami was far different than the perilous world we live in today. The motivation then seemed a bit greedy, although the ACC leadership explained that it was to position the conference strategically for an uncertain future.

Today the situation is obviously perilous, as recent events indicate. The ACC is one or two defections away from being a Big-East level conference (to be sure, the Big East a few years ago).

Isn't it a reach to accuse K of hypocrisy in statements made eight years apart in different eras?

sagegrouse

[Kdogg]

We might reach a rough consensus on a key issue in this thread, namely, whether on the issue of poaching, K has been consistent or inconsistent/even hypocritical. OP Newton_14 sets up the issue with K's quote:



Then Mudge's bluntly titled post, "Pot, Meet Kettle," answers the hypocrisy question, "Yes":



Then wsb3 agrees with Mudge that Duke, presumably K, is being sanctimonious re the poaching issue.



But buddy disagrees, and thinks K has actually been consistent, having criticized the ACC's earlier poaching of BE teams.



So:

1. Did K criticize the earlier poaching?

2. If yes, would that satisfy Mudge and wsb3 that K at least, is neither pot, kettle, nor sanctimonious [on this issue]?

3. If no, would other posters, however reluctantly, concede that K seems to be hypocritical - a pot - [on this issue]?

If I remember correctly, Coach K and most of the basketball coaches were not in favor of the first round of expansion. (UM, VT and BC) Duke and UNC were the only schools against expansion.

[Class of '94]

Regardless of whether or not the ACC, Coach K, Duke or anyone has been has been bypocritical, the ACC should end it b/c the BIG 10's goal is to take more ACC schools. GT has come out emphatically in recent days to pledge allegiance to the ACC and that they're not going anywhere. Even if that is true (and I'm inclined to believe GT's President), the BIG will continue imo to try to work behind the scenes to get GT and others (afterall, they worked on MD for two years and finally got them). Why continue to play/associated with a league that is actively trying to weaken you?

Eventhough the ACC took VT, BC and Miami almost 10 years ago, the ACC wasn't working behind the scenes since that time to get Pitt, Syracuse and ND. I'd been fine if the BIG 10 stopped at MD and ceased their continued recruitment of other ACC schools; but they're not; and I don't get why anyone in the ACC woiuld continue to work with the BIG 10 unless forced to by ESPN.

[sagegrouse]

If I remember correctly, Coach K and most of the basketball coaches were not in favor of the first round of expansion. (UM, VT and BC) Duke and UNC were the only schools against expansion.

The other factor in K's comments ten years ago is that Duke was officially opposed to expansion (along with UNC). He probably had no obligation to speak out against expansion, but he may have felt it inappropriate to support expansion when his employer was opposed.

sagegrouse

[hq2]

At this point I don't know if anyone knows what constitutes "the ACC" or "the Big 10" anymore.
Both conferences appear to be in constant flux, with new schools coming in and old ones leaving.
Neither seems to have much regional identity any longer, as they simply take in whatever schools
appear likely to produce the most revenue. Not much to cheer (or care) about any more.

[ice-9]

Coach K didn't say poaching is wrong, he just said that we shouldn't be doing a challenge with a conference trying to take our teams.

Similarly, if there was an ACC-Big East challenge, I'm sure he'd understand if the Big East wanted to drop the challenge.

[toooskies]

Why not add realignment into the challenge? Winner gets to pick an adjacent school!

Yes, I'm joking, but as a fan it would make it quite compelling.

[wsb3]

When i agreed with an earlier post it had nothing to do with Coach K. I never even had that thought..Kind of disappointed that such leaps were made on my behalf.

[gumbomoop]

When i agreed with an earlier post it had nothing to do with Coach K. I never even had that thought..Kind of disappointed that such leaps were made on my behalf.

I'm the guilty, or at least responsible, party. Looking again at Mudge's post and yours, I seem to have inferred something you, and perhaps Mudge, did not imply, namely that you were criticizing K, rather than other posters. It's surely accurate to say you were criticizing somebody, and given the title of the thread, I made an incorrect "leap." My fault, and my apology.

[Mudge]

At this point I don't know if anyone knows what constitutes "the ACC" or "the Big 10" anymore.
Both conferences appear to be in constant flux, with new schools coming in and old ones leaving.
Neither seems to have much regional identity any longer, as they simply take in whatever schools
appear likely to produce the most revenue. Not much to cheer (or care) about any more.

I don't think the Big 10 has much problem with identifying their region or members-- they are a dominant conference composed mainly of "flagship" (again, whatever that means) state universities, that is focused on the North Central region of the US... they have members that dominate contiguous states stretching from Nebraska to Maryland (now)-- the only thing more logical (geographically) would have been for them to add Missouri, Kentucky or West Virginia--and since Missouri just joined the SEC, that seems unlikely timing, while Kentucky and West Virginia are less prominent, less wealthy states, with "flagship" universities that are not members of the AAU (which the Big 10 has put a priority on, despite the general belief that nobody really cares about academics anymore-- it has even been rumored that had Nebraska been forced out of the AAU before the Big 10 offered admission, that the Big 10 might not have taken them).

GIT is a member of the AAU, too-- and so are Florida, Texas A&M (the only SEC state schools that are) and Texas-- so don't be surprised to see the Big 10 come after them eventually... I think ultimately the Big 10 wants to be 16 schools including Florida and Texas, with Texas A&M and GIT as backup choices. As for schools leaving, the last school that I can recall leaving the Big 10 is the University of Chicago-- and that happened a good 70-80 years ago-- since then, I don't think the Big 10 has lost a member. I think the power of the Big 10's brand, marketing, and financial muscle (their schools each get more in TV money now from the Big 10's contract than ND does from its own contract with NBC) makes the Big 10 the Big Dog on the block-- even more powerful than the SEC, regardless of the SEC's on-field success... which could lead Florida to make the jump. The Big 10's money and power may be bigger than its results on the field-- they have enormous state universities, with legions of fans (more affluent ones--many of whom actually went to college at their schools-- both in the stadiums and on couches and barstools) that make their programs worth more than the SEC's, except for Florida... the Big 10 will probably never be interested in the LSUs, AuBamas, Mississippis, South Carolinas, Kentuckys, and Arkansas because there is (relatively) no money in those places-- those are poor states, with smaller, rural populations and schools with weak academic reputations... and I don't think they will even be interested in Tennesssee or Vanderbilt; they might consider Georgia and Missouri, if they can't get Florida and Texas, but those would be second-choices, just like GIT and TAMU. Georgia has value because of Atlanta, and Missouri has value because of St. Louis and KC (just as Maryland has value because of DC), and both are the dominant state university in their state.

Now, the ACC-- that's another matter-- there is certainly room for debating what constitutes an ACC-type school now... it's not geography anymore, and it may not have to do with basketball anymore (and if it does, that may be a dubious choice of discriminant, in the current environment). But I definitely think it's time for DBR's editors to stop characterizing South Carolina's decision to leave as a mistake-- I am sure that South Carolina would not exchange the SEC for the ACC at this point, if offered-- and I'd bet Clemson, FSU, GIT, Miami, NCSU, Louisville, and probably VPI (among current/future ACC members) would exchange leagues with South Carolina, if they could-- that makes at least half of the ACC that probably wishes they were in South Carolina's place.

[Mudge]

I'm the guilty, or at least responsible, party. Looking again at Mudge's post and yours, I seem to have inferred something you, and perhaps Mudge, did not imply, namely that you were criticizing K, rather than other posters. It's surely accurate to say you were criticizing somebody, and given the title of the thread, I made an incorrect "leap." My fault, and my apology.

I would readily agree, if someone told me that Coach K did not want to see the ACC poach any schools from any other league, and therefore should be held blameless in the hypocrisy department-- he strikes me as someone of the utmost integrity (which may be why he is peeved right now about the Big 10 taking Maryland), but most of the rest of the ACC (which unfortunately, let themselves be swayed by people like that ridiculous character that ran FSU a few years ago) cannot say the same-- they are the ones who voted in favor of expansion, at the expense of another league. I was speaking primarily about those fans on this board (and elsewhere) who have expressed indignation about the Big 10 taking Maryland (the first time the ACC has ever been "poached"), but had no problem with the ACC doing it multiple times to the Big East in the past... if Coach K opposed those moves (for the reason that it was wrong to do to the Big East), then it only reinforces my image of him as a man of very high standards, who does not just bend along with the prevailing winds