NBA Fines San Antonio $250,000 for Sitting Players

[pfrduke]

I personally find this to be a preposterous use of power by the NBA. League management should not be in the business of saying who sits and who plays. "Strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams." That's deputy commissioner Adam Silver from just seven months ago. I completely agree.

Edited to add this preposterous* language from the Stern press release on the fine: The Spurs sat players "without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way." Didn't realize that was a requirement for all DNP-CD's.

*I know I used preposterous twice in the same post. This is warranted under the circumstances.

[uh_no]

I personally find this to be a preposterous use of power by the NBA. League management should not be in the business of saying who sits and who plays. "Strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams." That's deputy commissioner Adam Silver from just seven months ago. I completely agree.

Edited to add this preposterous* language from the Stern press release on the fine: The Spurs sat players "without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way." Didn't realize that was a requirement for all DNP-CD's.

*I know I used preposterous twice in the same post. This is warranted under the circumstances.

Good thing DBR isn't in charge of fining college bball programs, or Duke would be out billions from all the people who haven't gotten enough playing time!

[NSDukeFan]

Good thing DBR isn't in charge of fining college bball programs, or Duke would be out billions from all the people who haven't gotten enough playing time!

Is Popovich this board's second favorite head coach since he didn't even bring his starters and played his bench the entire game?

[uh_no]

Is Popovich this board's second favorite head coach since he didn't even bring his starters and played his bench the entire game?

well, at least his bench guys have a chance to get better and his starters won't have tired legs come postseason

[bedeviled]

Swofford was evidently ahead of the curve in 2010 when he sanctioned FSU women's soccer for resting players when the team faced 5 games in 11 days prior to the NCAA Tournament. Those sanctions (1. $25,000 fine, 2. forfeiture of additional $15,000 given for travel, 3. suspension of coach for 1st game of NCAA-T, 4. apologies all around) are probably MUCH more significant to the soccer team than this $250,000 fine.

Humorously, his reasoning was, "the integrity of our championship should never be compromised...It's important that the value of sportsmanship and leadership continue to be paramount in this league (http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/11/06/784747/acc-swats-florida-state-coach.htmlhttp://)." Nora Lynn Finch, an associate conference commissioner, was also dismayed that "Florida State had distorted the tournament seeding and that Wake Forest had been “cheated” out of a legitimate match (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/sports/soccer/19seminoles.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1354327295-N+ND2SWT3kKfzkiCORjVCA)."

Swofford's sanctions against UNC for compromising the integrity of the ACC Football Championship and cheating FSU out of a legitimate match are going to be shocking. SHOCKING, I say!! ;) After all, UNC IS RESTING ALL ITS FOOTBALL PLAYERS DURING THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR!!!! :cool:

[Gewebe14]

Is Popovich this board's second favorite head coach since he didn't even bring his starters and played his bench the entire game?

lol post of the year

[FerryFor50]

I actually don't have a problem with it.

Poppovich waited until a nationally televised game to sit his players. This was not to rest his guys - it was to prove a point to the commish.

Does anyone on this board believe Danny Green is really one of San Antonio's "star" players? Or that a 25 year old needed rest?

I think he tried to embarrass Stern and the league because he was mad about the schedule. That's what the fine is about. I think Stern should have suspended Poppovich for a game, too. You know, so he could "rest" from such a long week.

These guys get paid a LOT of money. And the fans pay a lot of money to see them play. Sitting his guys en masse spits in the face of that.

[buddy]

Now that the league has asserted its authority to determine playing time for individual players, I would expect Popovich to call Stern every time he wants to make a substitution to be certain it comports with the league's competitiveness standards. And in the week or so before the playoffs, I expect Stern to penalize any team whose starters play less than their average number of minutes. After all, if Popovich can't rest players during the season, why can other coaches "rest" their players once play-off spots are clinched? Aren't fans just as cheated in one scenario as another?

I don't know the personal dynamics, but Stern just made an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. of himself and the league. And I think coaches should call him on it and make him either be an actual coach or back down. Nobody cares about David Stern, and precious few care about the NBA. This was unwise on Stern's part.

[JNort]

I personally find this to be a preposterous use of power by the NBA. League management should not be in the business of saying who sits and who plays. "Strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams." That's deputy commissioner Adam Silver from just seven months ago. I completely agree.

Edited to add this preposterous* language from the Stern press release on the fine: The Spurs sat players "without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way." Didn't realize that was a requirement for all DNP-CD's.

*I know I used preposterous twice in the same post. This is warranted under the circumstances.

I was totally outraged that the Spurs were going to be fined until I read this part. This is a rule I believe in all sports that you must disclose your injuries and DNPs with the league before hand as to give both teams a fair edge in knowing what to expect. For instance the Heat can't say on Friday that Lebron James will be out for Saturdays game and then throw him in at the tip, it would be a huuuugggeee advantage because the opponent went through practices and preparing a strategy assuming he was out.

[greybeard]

I actually don't have a problem with it.

Poppovich waited until a nationally televised game to sit his players. This was not to rest his guys - it was to prove a point to the commish.

Does anyone on this board believe Danny Green is really one of San Antonio's "star" players? Or that a 25 year old needed rest?

I think he tried to embarrass Stern and the league because he was mad about the schedule. That's what the fine is about. I think Stern should have suspended Poppovich for a game, too. You know, so he could "rest" from such a long week.

These guys get paid a LOT of money. And the fans pay a lot of money to see them play. Sitting his guys en masse spits in the face of that.

The teams that have the best chance to go all the way must make it through the season without meaningful injury to key players. The scheduling of those four games has Stern's fingerprints all over it. San Antonio is a great team, but watching the grass grow in the NBA finals is so not what Stern wants. Stern wants a rematch, LeBron verses Durant. That's the list. The team that stands the best chance of getting in the way just happens to get hit with this ridiculous schedule. Before that schedule was finalized and made public, Stern should have fixed it, if he hadn't already (I'm of the view that he had). Stern should fine his own damn self. Stupid does not sell, and besides in the big leagues it is no defense. Popovich, the innovator and warrier, hit the guy right where he deserved it. If Stern fines him, we do deserve to know what penalty he is imposing on the genuis who was responsible for this schedule. You do know what Pop would suggest. Hey, what am I saying, we've already witnessed it.

[sporthenry]

I was totally outraged that the Spurs were going to be fined until I read this part. This is a rule I believe in all sports that you must disclose your injuries and DNPs with the league before hand as to give both teams a fair edge in knowing what to expect. For instance the Heat can't say on Friday that Lebron James will be out for Saturdays game and then throw him in at the tip, it would be a huuuugggeee advantage because the opponent went through practices and preparing a strategy assuming he was out.

It is a lot different in football than in basketball. I doubt with 82 games and many on back to back nights that they do too much in the way of game planning. I'm also not sure how they expect them to tell the league/other team about all of its DNP-CD's. Do they have to disclose Nolan Smith as a DNP-CD b/c he can't get off the bench?

They can hide behind the whole timing of it but ultimately it was:


The league's statement said the Spurs were in violation of league policy reviewed with the board of governors in April 2010 against resting players in a manner "contrary to the best interests of the NBA."

The thing is Pop is very smart. This was a completely calculated move to bring light to the scheduling and idea of resting players. Perhaps next year the NBA won't have them play their 4th game in 5 nights against a rested Heat team. Pop could have just as easily had them not dress and sit on the bench or he could have dressed them and not played them. Sending them home a night early seemingly did very little to anything but just to make a spectacle of this.

[gep]

Seems to me like not dressing and sitting behind the bench, or dressing and not playing... is a more blatant (obvious) action. Sending them home... they are not even in the arena. Somehow makes more sense????

[sporthenry]

Seems to me like not dressing and sitting behind the bench, or dressing and not playing... is a more blatant (obvious) action. Sending them home... they are not even in the arena. Somehow makes more sense????

Exactly. Three of your best players and your best bench player aren't even in the arena even though they are completely healthy? Sending them home hours before on a mid day flight seems pretty blatant to me. Sitting them in suits or even dressing them, you could just say he picked up a nick in warm ups or he didn't have the legs to go. Heck, last year Duncan didn't play in 8 games yet it wasn't as big a stink as it was this year.

[gep]

I guess I'm old school... and just plain "old". Bird, Magic, Michael, Patrick, etc... they never would have sit, let alone go home, to "save themselves" for the playoffs. Gut it out, let the best team win.

[sporthenry]

I guess I'm old school... and just plain "old". Bird, Magic, Michael, Patrick, etc... they never would have sit, let alone go home, to "save themselves" for the playoffs. Gut it out, let the best team win.

Well MJ is a different breed. He may be the most competitive person ever. But Bird retired from injuries at 35. Duncan is 36 and will be 37 in the Spring. The hopes are prolonging his career for the meaningful games (i.e. the ones in April). Magic's career was cut short so can't really compare. And Ewing struggled to play 82 games in a year. Duncan has played 16 games out of 17. At 36, Ewing only played 38 games out of 50.

The idea is that by playing them less, you can prolong their careers while also minimizing risk of an injury. The same concept works in just about every sport. RBBC in football, resting starters week 17, pitch counts, nobody getting close to Cal Ripken's record. Sports has become more of a business, the players are more valuable and sports as a whole have become more demanding. All those features means you just won't get players playing all the games.

[hq2]

Right decision made by the league. The fans and TNT paid to see those guys, and they got robbed,
period. If they went out and were tired and lost, so be it, but they owed it to their audience to at
least show up. For the amount of money those guys get paid, they can suck it up on back to backs
once in a while.

[sporthenry]

Right decision made by the league. The fans and TNT paid to see those guys, and they got robbed,
period. If they went out and were tired and lost, so be it, but they owed it to their audience to at
least show up. For the amount of money those guys get paid, they can suck it up on back to backs
once in a while.

It isn't about the players "sucking it up." This was all about Pop. I guarantee if you asked Tony Parker or Danny Green, they would have preferred to play. I know we don't pay Seth Curry but if K decided to rest him significantly b/c of his injury, should we fine K? He obviously can play albeit does look injured and I guarantee you Duncan has nagging injuries as well. Nobody seems to care when a catcher gets rest in a double header or on a Sunday day game? Why, wouldn't it be the same thinking? As I'm sure the Spurs are finding out, Duncan's body is deteriorating. They think to themselves, well I'm investing millions into Tony Parker, why would I run him into the ground so that he is less valuable 2 years from now? Heck, Kobe is looking like he has little legs left to play at age 34 while Grant Hill was chugging along at 39 since he has less miles on his legs by going through college/being injured.

There is very little science about it, but I think as times goes on, you'll see more studies come out about injuries with less rest. It is very intuitive that you would seemingly get more injured when you are fatigued. And wouldn't Tim Duncan or Manu Ginobli getting injured cost the NBA more money in the long term? Tim Duncan missed 1 nationally televised game, if he misses a month, how many games does he miss? If he gets injured before or during the playoffs, then the value of the NBA's golden egg, the playoffs falls. Imagine the Spurs making the finals and Duncan getting injured in game 1 as the Spurs get blown out the rest of the finals (albeit their backups looked pretty good against the Heat). Ratings would be terrible.

[mgtr]

I'm with San Antonio on this -- if you are faced with a preposterous schedule, respond in an appropriate way.

[Newton_14]

Some are missing the point here. This had nothing to do with "resting players". The Spurs were playing their 4th game in 5 nights, against a Heat team that had not played in 5 days. It was an act of defiance to protest the scheduling. Pop was not resting his players. He was sending a message.

Whether it was fair or not to fine them, I won't get into. Just wanted to clarify what the real situation was with this.

[Clipsfan]

Some are missing the point here. This had nothing to do with "resting players". The Spurs were playing their 4th game in 5 nights, against a Heat team that had not played in 5 days. It was an act of defiance to protest the scheduling. Pop was not resting his players. He was sending a message.

Whether it was fair or not to fine them, I won't get into. Just wanted to clarify what the real situation was with this.

Completely agree. This was entirely about Pop and sending a message. He did something similar last year on a smaller scale (Duncan's DNP - Old) and was not fined because of the ridiculous schedule resulting from the lockout. This was another, more blatant, protest against another ridiculous schedule. There are many players who miss games or don't play the second of back to back games. Sending these four home a day early was meant to draw the attention it's getting.

[Clipsfan]

Btw, that DNP - Old was one of the highlights from last season. I had to laugh at Pop's sense of humor/mild jab at the league. That and Shane got his ring.

[pokeresq]

Would I be unhappy if I had shelled out big bucks to see the Spurs and Heat, and the Spurs had sent their biggest names home early? You bet. but hopefully I still would have gone to the game as it was hard fought with the Heat coming back to win 105-100.

If Pop thought this gave his team the best chance of success long term and for the ultimate goal of winning a title, he has too many more wins than I do for me to second guess him. Doing so would be similar to complaining about a college coach who limits the minutes of a clearly talented player or sits his entire starting lineup during a game in order to get a message across.

The ethics of tanking/resting/preparing for the playoffs seem to vary widely from sport to sport. Are we cheated if K pulls the starters with 4 minutes to go, or is he showing sportsmanship?Cal Ripken used to be criticized for not sitting out games in the latter years of the Streak because people contended he would be better with some rest. As is often the case, Pop is in a situation in which he can be criticized whichever way he goes. Imho, he wisely did what he thought was best for his team and then accepted the criticism.

I hope he does not accept the fine, however. Stern clearly has been looking for fights since the well deserved criticism he received during the lockout, and arbitrarily imposed a fine in a fit of pique. He is a lackey for rich guys who don't respect him and is lashing out during his last months of power to show he still is boss, when everybody but him knows it is not true. Rumors are that Stern is so petty he is lobbying for Pop not to be appointed to the Olympics job if K does step down. If I have to choose a side between Pop and Stern, count me in on Pop's team.

[Billy Dat]

The Popovich story has spun off several accounts of how it might impact his potential Team USA coaching, which leads to more "K in Brazil": prognostication:

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-121130-1201/nba-gregg-popovich-shot-team-usa-coaching-gig

"I've had preliminary conversations with Coach K about the future," Colangelo said. "He has a really good team at Duke and that's where his mind should be right now. I think he went through a very tiring experience in London and he made statements to that effect, but I think he was having early withdrawals a few weeks after he was home, which is typical when you're on such a high. He's such a big part of USA Basketball. We're so close, as close as can be, so I only want what's best for him. I really want to have some discussions with him that brings some finality to it. And we have haven't had those yet.

"So I'm waiting before speaking to other candidates. ... (Popovich and Rivers) are great coaches, both of them in their own right, and I think they would do an outstanding job, either one of them."

Asked specifically if the ship has sailed in terms of trying to woo Krzyzewski back with the usual doses of pizza and wine, Colangelo stressed: "No ship has sailed anywhere."

[COYS]

The Popovich story has spun off several accounts of how it might impact his potential Team USA coaching, which leads to more "K in Brazil": prognostication:

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-121130-1201/nba-gregg-popovich-shot-team-usa-coaching-gig

"I've had preliminary conversations with Coach K about the future," Colangelo said. "He has a really good team at Duke and that's where his mind should be right now. I think he went through a very tiring experience in London and he made statements to that effect, but I think he was having early withdrawals a few weeks after he was home, which is typical when you're on such a high. He's such a big part of USA Basketball. We're so close, as close as can be, so I only want what's best for him. I really want to have some discussions with him that brings some finality to it. And we have haven't had those yet.

"So I'm waiting before speaking to other candidates. ... (Popovich and Rivers) are great coaches, both of them in their own right, and I think they would do an outstanding job, either one of them."

Asked specifically if the ship has sailed in terms of trying to woo Krzyzewski back with the usual doses of pizza and wine, Colangelo stressed: "No ship has sailed anywhere."

K has clearly earned the right to decide when he steps down as the coach of USA Basketball. That being said, I really doubt that Pop's actions in Rest-Gate will have much of an effect on whether or not he is selected to lead USA Basketball. Pop is certainly a strong personality. If he doesn't fit well with the rest of the leadership of Team USA, he might not be selected, but that would be true before and after Rest-Gate. Any coach that would be good for USA basketball is going to have a strong personality. I think the fans of USA basketball WANT a coach with a strong vision for the team. Whether or not Pop's vision fits with the rest of USA basketball is the real question. If it turns out that he is not a good fit in terms of leadership style or personality, Rest-Gate will be a symptom of his incompatibility, not a cause.

[theAlaskanBear]

I agree with most of these posts. It was intentional message by G-Pop to the league. At the same time, I understand Stern's perspective and I think the fine is appropriate.

Thursday night is TNT's NBA showcase. There are only 2 games on, and they compete against football. The league office has every right to protect the integrity of these games. As it turns out, it was an entertaining game as is, but I can understand Stern trying to send a message and protect his TV partners. He has to justify the big time TV dollars every time they renegotiate the contract.

If Pop didn't want to stick it to Stern, he would have rested his guys the night before against the Magic, and he would have heard nary a word from the league about it.

[Acymetric]

K has clearly earned the right to decide when he steps down as the coach of USA Basketball. That being said, I really doubt that Pop's actions in Rest-Gate will have much of an effect on whether or not he is selected to lead USA Basketball. Pop is certainly a strong personality. If he doesn't fit well with the rest of the leadership of Team USA, he might not be selected, but that would be true before and after Rest-Gate. Any coach that would be good for USA basketball is going to have a strong personality. I think the fans of USA basketball WANT a coach with a strong vision for the team. Whether or not Pop's vision fits with the rest of USA basketball is the real question. If it turns out that he is not a good fit in terms of leadership style or personality, Rest-Gate will be a symptom of his incompatibility, not a cause.

I think this whole ordeal makes him more appealing for the job sometime down the road, not less.

[Kdogg]

I really like David Stern but this fine is more about ego and control than anything else. He didn't like how Pop acted and tried to send his own message. Back in 2011 the Memphis Grizz tanked the last two games of the season and "rested" several players. It wasn't because anyone was injured; it was because they WANTED to lose the games to get the eight seed (and not the seventh). Their coaching staff knew they matched up better against the Spurs than the Lakers or Mavs. It worked and they won the series against the Spurs. Everyone from the coaches, players, management and fans knew what the Grizz were doing but Stern didn't address it. The only reason the Spurs were fined is because Pop wanted to send a message. Stern (would some will call a bully) didn't take kindly to it.