The most surprising thing about last night's game:

[jay]

Karl Hess wasn't half bad, seeing as though no one is really discussing the officiating.

Is Karl mellowing in his old age, or just a little rusty on crustiness in the early season? :D

[PackMan97]

Karl Hess wasn't half bad, seeing as though no one is really discussing the officiating.

Is Karl mellowing in his old age, or just a little rusty on crustiness in the early season? :D

He's saving it all up for when he calls an NC State game.

...and your welcome.

[elvis14]

Karl Hess wasn't half bad, seeing as though no one is really discussing the officiating.

Is Karl mellowing in his old age, or just a little rusty on crustiness in the early season? :D

We got Hess'd a few times. In particular in the second half when Craft ran into Ryan and fell down right in front of a ref on the baseline and not too far from the ref on the right, it was Hess who called Ryan from across the court. We backed it up and watched it a few times. The closest ref had a great view, realized it was 2 guys running into each other and one flopping and didn't flinch. Hess took it as a opportunity. He was too bad but he got a few times.

[captmojo]

Has Devildeac seen this? :confused:

He just loves him some Karl Hess, I bet ya! :D

[devildeac]

Karl Hess wasn't half bad, seeing as though no one is really discussing the officiating.

Is Karl mellowing in his old age, or just a little rusty on crustiness in the early season? :D


Has Devildeac seen this? :confused:

He just loves him some Karl Hess, I bet ya! :D

If he wasn't half bad, does that mean he wasn't half good:rolleyes:?"

[Newton_14]

I did not like the double foul on Tyler and Scott. The one time Tyler isn't the instigator in a chest bumping match, and he gets called for it anyway. Also did not like the call on Ryan as mentioned above.

[chaosmage]

I did not like the double foul on Tyler and Scott. The one time Tyler isn't the instigator in a chest bumping match, and he gets called for it anyway. Also did not like the call on Ryan as mentioned above.

In the tradition of the boards, however, Daniel Ewing was also whistled for a technical.

[Lennies]

I did not like the double foul on Tyler and Scott. The one time Tyler isn't the instigator in a chest bumping match, and he gets called for it anyway. Also did not like the call on Ryan as mentioned above.

I didn't save my copy of the game, but it was my impression that Tyler fouled Smith first, and the double foul was called because of Smith's reaction.

[COYS]

I didn't save my copy of the game, but it was my impression that Tyler fouled Smith first, and the double foul was called because of Smith's reaction.

I rewatched this play a couple times. Unless there was something else going on prior to the contact during this particular event that Hess had already talked to them about, I actually didn't think there needed to be a foul call on EITHER player. There wasn't much in the contact. There was far more contact on inbounds plays both prior and after the double T. I saw it as classic Hess, needlessly inserting himself into the game. It is not a complement to a ref that most fan bases of ACC teams can roll off a list of top 10 moments with Hess. If he wants to call a double T, fine, but the posturing and stare-downs are completely unnecessary.

[Dev11]

I rewatched this play a couple times. Unless there was something else going on prior to the contact during this particular event that Hess had already talked to them about, I actually didn't think there needed to be a foul call on EITHER player. There wasn't much in the contact. There was far more contact on inbounds plays both prior and after the double T. I saw it as classic Hess, needlessly inserting himself into the game. It is not a complement to a ref that most fan bases of ACC teams can roll off a list of top 10 moments with Hess. If he wants to call a double T, fine, but the posturing and stare-downs are completely unnecessary.

Tyler doesn't help himself by being a 'scrappy' player, but from watching it real time with the one replay, I agree, it didn't look like much from either side.

[COYS]

I rewatched this play a couple times. Unless there was something else going on prior to the contact during this particular event that Hess had already talked to them about, I actually didn't think there needed to be a foul call on EITHER player. There wasn't much in the contact. There was far more contact on inbounds plays both prior and after the double T. I saw it as classic Hess, needlessly inserting himself into the game. It is not a complement to a ref that most fan bases of ACC teams can roll off a list of top 10 moments with Hess. If he wants to call a double T, fine, but the posturing and stare-downs are completely unnecessary.

Good Lord, I can't believe I made the compliment/complement mistake. I am self-reporting my grammar violation to the board and will institute my own sanctions.

[gumbomoop]

I saw it as classic Hess, needlessly inserting himself into the game. It is not a compliment to a ref that most fan bases of ACC teams can roll off a list of top 10 moments with Hess. If he wants to call a double T, fine, but the posturing and stare-downs are completely unnecessary.

Yeah, I think this bolded phrase is the crux of the problem. When it happens, too regularly, it's kind of a Hess-Mess. Comparable, if still second, to Ted-Head [as in Teddy Valentine's intermittent head case eruptions, and with apologies for any similarity to Deadheads, those fanatic lovers of, say, Bertha, Sugaree, kind veggie burritos, or, what the heck, Terrapin Station].

[COYS]

Yeah, I think this bolded phrase is the crux of the problem. When it happens, too regularly, it's kind of a Hess-Mess. Comparable, if still second, to Ted-Head [as in Teddy Valentine's intermittent head case eruptions, and with apologies for any similarity to Deadheads, those fanatic lovers of, say, Bertha, Sugaree, kind veggie burritos, or, what the heck, Terrapin Station].

I appreciate you correcting my compliment/complement error when quoting my post!

[gumbomoop]

I appreciate you correcting my compliment/complement error when quoting my post!

If you had just shut up and not mentioned it in you're prior post, you might could have got clean away with it. But your obviously too honest for you're own good. From now on, your on you're own.

[mgtr]

If you had just shut up and not mentioned it in you're prior post, you might could have got clean away with it. But your obviously too honest for you're own good. From now on, your on you're own.

Very clever, gumbomoop!

[MChambers]

Good Lord, I can't believe I made the compliment/complement mistake. I am self-reporting my grammar violation to the board and will institute my own sanctions.

If you had said that Teddy Valentine complements Karl Hess, that would have been grammatically correct. It would have been a terrifying thought, however.

[gumbomoop]

Very clever, gumbomoop!

I appreciate your noticing the use of "might could," complementary modals. A great Southernism, even if I, a native of Siberia, do say so myself.

[toooskies]

Tyler doesn't help himself by being a 'scrappy' player, but from watching it real time with the one replay, I agree, it didn't look like much from either side.

I agree that this incident didn't have a lot of substance, but there had been chippy behavior among the guards up to that point which I think he was trying to head off before things got out of control. I'd rather that kind of call be made too early (as Hess arguably did) than too late.

On the other hand, there seemed to be a few more phantom calls on Ryan that I'd take the most objection to, as well as the block-from-behind by Ravenel on Mason where he clearly hit his shoulder first.

[The Gordog]

Karl Hess wasn't half bad, seeing as though no one is really discussing the officiating.

Is Karl mellowing in his old age, or just a little rusty on crustiness in the early season? :D

What about that rediculous one handed held ball that went against us (Mason had the rebound) wasn't that Hess?

[bedeviled]

I appreciate your noticing the use of "might could," complementary modals.

If I may be so bold, I would also like to call attention to Gumbomoop's use of possessive gerunds ("your noticing"). Well done!

Regarding the original topic, I have not found an outlet for frustration with Hess. However, I am remarkably content with absurd Teddy V. calls after breaking into an over-the-top rendition of "My Funny Valentine."

[Olympic Fan]

I agree that Hess wasn't his usual problem self at the OSU. As for the double technical, I knew that the refs had intervened several times before that call to warn players to dial it back. I think in context, it was a reasonable call -- kind of the next step in stopping the physical confrontations and yappying that were taking place.

But I did think that John Cahill was a pain and it seemed like everything he called went against Duke. Remember the sequence where Mason went up for the dunk, hit the bottom of the rim and came down with the ball and tried to go up again, but had the ball knocked out of his hand. Duke was all set to throw the ball back in when Cahill stopped play, gathred the refs and led them over to the moniter ... I think to chec and see whether Mason had let go of the ball or not on his first attempt (if not, it would have been traveling). The only trouble is that's not a reviewable play. Of course, I could be wrong -- they may have been looking to see if somebody threw an elbow.

I was curious about one other play. I screwed up by DVR and didn't get the game so I couldn't check. There was a play late in the second half when Ryan came slashing in from the left side (the side with the team benches) and tried a dunk, but missed. From where I was sitting, it looked like a blatant foul (I couldn't see which player it was, but an USO defender appeared to rake his arms).

Anybody see that play on tape?

[devildeac]

I rewatched this play a couple times. Unless there was something else going on prior to the contact during this particular event that Hess had already talked to them about, I actually didn't think there needed to be a foul call on EITHER player. There wasn't much in the contact. There was far more contact on inbounds plays both prior and after the double T. I saw it as classic Hess, needlessly inserting himself into the game. It is not a complement to a ref that most fan bases of ACC teams can roll off a list of top 10 moments with Hess. If he wants to call a double T, fine, but the posturing and stare-downs are completely unnecessary.

One of the refs, maybe Hess, had talked to TT and an OSU player earlier in the game about something so I'd wager they had been warned. I thought the T was on an OSU player slapping the ball while it was OOB in our player's hands. Then I saw the double T and realized he was backing up his earlier warning though I did not see the actual incident.

There. I'm done complimenting/complementing/defending Karl Hess. I think I have just enough time for a shower before my afternoon work begins.:o

[moonpie23]

What about that rediculous one handed held ball that went against us (Mason had the rebound) wasn't that Hess?

no, that was william fichtner without his grecian 49

[devildeac]

I agree that Hess wasn't his usual problem self at the OSU. As for the double technical, I knew that the refs had intervened several times before that call to warn players to dial it back. I think in context, it was a reasonable call -- kind of the next step in stopping the physical confrontations and yappying that were taking place.

But I did think that John Cahill was a pain and it seemed like everything he called went against Duke. Remember the sequence where Mason went up for the dunk, hit the bottom of the rim and came down with the ball and tried to go up again, but had the ball knocked out of his hand. Duke was all set to throw the ball back in when Cahill stopped play, gathred the refs and led them over to the moniter ... I think to chec and see whether Mason had let go of the ball or not on his first attempt (if not, it would have been traveling). The only trouble is that's not a reviewable play. Of course, I could be wrong -- they may have been looking to see if somebody threw an elbow.

I was curious about one other play. I screwed up by DVR and didn't get the game so I couldn't check. There was a play late in the second half when Ryan came slashing in from the left side (the side with the team benches) and tried a dunk, but missed. From where I was sitting, it looked like a blatant foul (I couldn't see which player it was, but an USO defender appeared to rake his arms).

Anybody see that play on tape?

I also thought it was a foul but I was at the other end of the court upstairs:o. A friend who watched the TV replay thought it may have been a foul but also thought it should have been goaltending. Not quite sure why as I thought Ryan was attempting a dunk on the play. Can't recall either who called the block on Ryan when it clearly appeared that Thomas cleared space with his arm as he advanced the ball.

[Newton_14]

I agree that Hess wasn't his usual problem self at the OSU. As for the double technical, I knew that the refs had intervened several times before that call to warn players to dial it back. I think in context, it was a reasonable call -- kind of the next step in stopping the physical confrontations and yappying that were taking place.

But I did think that John Cahill was a pain and it seemed like everything he called went against Duke. Remember the sequence where Mason went up for the dunk, hit the bottom of the rim and came down with the ball and tried to go up again, but had the ball knocked out of his hand. Duke was all set to throw the ball back in when Cahill stopped play, gathred the refs and led them over to the moniter ... I think to chec and see whether Mason had let go of the ball or not on his first attempt (if not, it would have been traveling). The only trouble is that's not a reviewable play. Of course, I could be wrong -- they may have been looking to see if somebody threw an elbow.

I was curious about one other play. I screwed up by DVR and didn't get the game so I couldn't check. There was a play late in the second half when Ryan came slashing in from the left side (the side with the team benches) and tried a dunk, but missed. From where I was sitting, it looked like a blatant foul (I couldn't see which player it was, but an USO defender appeared to rake his arms).

Anybody see that play on tape?

On the play with Mason. They called a jumpball. It was borderline as the OSU player did have all ball at the top, but he hit Mason on the back shoulder and arm, which is the reason Mason failed to get the ball above the rim. Cahill called the huddle and went to the monitor to check if the ball hit the rim, which would result in a shot clock reset. The ball did hit the rim, and they did reset the shot clock, but, if the call was a jumpball, and possession went back to Duke, wouldn't the shot clock be reset to begin with? It made no sense.

On the play where Ryan missed the dunk, they never showed a replay, but it should have been either goaltending, a foul, or both. The ball was clearly in the cylinder when Thomas knocked it away by either getting all ball, or getting a lot of Ryan's arm. I thought watching it at full speed it was clearly goaltending and likely a foul.

[weezie]

Oh dear, I hope we aren't tempting fate here.....

[CDu]

On the play with Mason. They called a jumpball. It was borderline as the OSU player did have all ball at the top, but he hit Mason on the back shoulder and arm, which is the reason Mason failed to get the ball above the rim. Cahill called the huddle and went to the monitor to check if the ball hit the rim, which would result in a shot clock reset. The ball did hit the rim, and they did reset the shot clock, but, if the call was a jumpball, and possession went back to Duke, wouldn't the shot clock be reset to begin with? It made no sense.

No. The rules changed a few years back such that, when a jump ball is called and the alternating possession keeps the ball with the offensive team, the shot clock does not reset. Don't ask me why the powers that be think this is fair, but it is what it is. So the ball hitting the rim does matter with respect to the shot clock.

What DOESN'T make sense is why they reset the shot clock but DIDN'T take away the jump ball. Seems to me that the ball hitting the rim would constitute a shot attempt. As such, it wouldn't be a jump ball situation, but rather a blocked shot (and a rebound to Mason). It should only be a jump ball if the ball could never be considered a shot attempt, because the two players did not come down together with the ball.

[throatybeard]

Good Lord, I can't believe I made the compliment/complement mistake. I am self-reporting my grammar violation to the board and will institute my own sanctions.

That isn't grammar (morphosyntax). It's orthography.

[sagegrouse]

That isn't grammar (morphosyntax). It's orthography.

I thought it was homonymcide. --sage

[Newton_14]

No. The rules changed a few years back such that, when a jump ball is called and the alternating possession keeps the ball with the offensive team, the shot clock does not reset. Don't ask me why the powers that be think this is fair, but it is what it is. So the ball hitting the rim does matter with respect to the shot clock.

What DOESN'T make sense is why they reset the shot clock but DIDN'T take away the jump ball. Seems to me that the ball hitting the rim would constitute a shot attempt. As such, it wouldn't be a jump ball situation, but rather a blocked shot (and a rebound to Mason). It should only be a jump ball if the ball could never be considered a shot attempt, because the two players did not come down together with the ball.

Ok, thanks for that. I was not aware. So yeah, you are correct then. I agree it can't be both a jumpball and a shot attempt. They did reset the clock too, so they ruled it a shot attempt and a jumpball at the same time. Very weird play. If it were a shot attempt, then like you say, it was a Mason rebound, and he went back up, got fouled and made the bucket. All for naught.

Cahill is not my favorite ref either. Way too cocky. Last year during pregame warmups in Cameron, he was jogging back and forth on the Duke end "getting loose" amongst the players, and he had this arrogant grin the entire time, and was practically strutting. It was nauseating.

[jimsumner]

Good Lord, I can't believe I made the compliment/complement mistake. I am self-reporting my grammar violation to the board and will institute my own sanctions.


Give yourself some credit. Lots of folks use compliment/complimentary when they mean complement/complementary. You're the first person to reverse it.

Kudos for creativity. :)

[Olympic Fan]

Give yourself some credit. Lots of folks use compliment/complimentary when they mean complement/complementary. You're the first person to reverse it.

Kudos for creativity. :)

This reminds me of one of the great quotes in ACC history. A reporter asked UNC fullback Billy 'The Horse' Johnson -- a 250-pound bruiser -- how he and Amos Lawrence -- a 5-9 jet of a tailback -- complemented each other in the UNC backfield.

His answer:

"Well, when Amos has a good run, I say, 'Good run, Amos,' and he says, "Good block, Billy.' We 'complement' each other all the time."

[TruBlu]

I was curious about one other play. I screwed up by DVR and didn't get the game so I couldn't check.



FYI, the replay is on espn3 in case you would like to re-watch the game. Trying to be helpful - not a smart Alex. (I just had to get Murphy into another thread.)