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Newton_14
11-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Use this thread to discuss tonights games. One news item: UNC will be without PJ Hairston due to a sprained knee. He did not make the trip.

Schedule:
Iowa @ Va Tech 7:15 pm ESPNU
Minnesota @ FSU 7:15 pm ESPN2
NC State @ Michigan 7:30 ESPN

Nebraska @ Wake Forest 9:15pm ESPNU
maryland @ Nortwestern 9:15pm ESPN2
UNC @ Indiana 9:30 pm ESPN

dchen09
11-27-2012, 08:19 PM
FSU's isn't exactly pulling their weight... Defense is terrible.
I'm surprised NC state is only down 7. Not playing very much defense.

sagegrouse
11-27-2012, 08:27 PM
State is showing one-on-one skills but no team offense or defense. Have these guys ever played together before?

FSU seems unenergetic, and will probably lose a game it should win.

VT is playing well, although Iowa is more dangerous (and deep) than I thought.

Go ACC!!

sagegrouse

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 08:32 PM
State is showing one-on-one skills but no team offense or defense. Have these guys ever played together before?

FSU seems unenergetic, and will probably lose a game it should win.

VT is playing well, although Iowa is more dangerous (and deep) than I thought.

Go ACC!!

sagegrouse

I thought Seth Greenburg just made a great point at halftime pointing out that State does not have the non-scoring glue guy that does a little bit of everything and only scores when the team needs him to. Every guy is looking to score. Last year they had CJ Williams and right now, no one seems willing to sacrifice points to be that guy.

I think his point has merit..

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 08:45 PM
Watching Michigan/NCSU.... Michigan is LOADED. And I really like what McGary brings to the table.... very active, great rebounding instincts.

loran16
11-27-2012, 08:46 PM
State is showing one-on-one skills but no team offense or defense. Have these guys ever played together before?

FSU seems unenergetic, and will probably lose a game it should win.

VT is playing well, although Iowa is more dangerous (and deep) than I thought.

Go ACC!!

sagegrouse

For the record, Minnesota is really really good - they're actually favored in a near-coin flip (only a coin flip because it's AT FSU). And FSU has simply not played defense this year, after years of being their trademark. Not a good sign.

dchen09
11-27-2012, 08:50 PM
I thought Seth Greenburg just made a great point at halftime pointing out that State does not have the non-scoring glue guy that does a little bit of everything and only scores when the team needs him to. Every guy is looking to score. Last year they had CJ Williams and right now, no one seems willing to sacrifice points to be that guy.

I think his point has merit..

Arguably Richard Howell is a type like that and thats probably the reason he's doing so well. He just takes what the defense gives him where as everyone else is trying to beat the defense by themselves. If you look at CJ Leslie, just dribbles and spin moves towards the rim regardless of how many players are in front of him.

As for defense, its amazing how badly they are playing defense. Both on ball defense and team defense has been poor. Not fighting through screens, not switching on screens, not talking to each other. Geez.

dchen09
11-27-2012, 08:54 PM
Watching Michigan/NCSU.... Michigan is LOADED. And I really like what McGary brings to the table.... very active, great rebounding instincts.

Is that because he's been good or NC state has been terribad.

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 08:55 PM
Is that because he's been good or NC state has been terribad.

Agree. State's defense has been bad all game...

loran16
11-27-2012, 08:57 PM
Arguably Richard Howell is a type like that and thats probably the reason he's doing so well. He just takes what the defense gives him where as everyone else is trying to beat the defense by themselves. If you look at CJ Leslie, just dribbles and spin moves towards the rim regardless of how many players are in front of him.

As for defense, its amazing how badly they are playing defense. Both on ball defense and team defense has been poor. Not fighting through screens, not switching on screens, not talking to each other. Geez.

Biggest thing that every State fan overlooked about Gottfried coming into this year: He has no track record teaching a team defense. At Alabama, he was able to have great Os: 3 times they were top 20, once top 10, twice top 35, and only once below top 50. But his best defense was ranked 50th and his last 4 Bama teams (with his own recruits) were all around 80-100 in D. Not good.

NC State was 65th in D last year. This year so far they're 70. Not elite. Not even great. You can't win like that.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 08:57 PM
Agree. State's defense has been bad all game...

He actually was playing well when State came out in the 2nd half playing hard. But now State is back to not caring anymore.

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 09:04 PM
He actually was playing well when State came out in the 2nd half playing hard. But now State is back to not caring anymore.

McGary has looked impressive. Bouncy and quick, nice body. Michigan looks legit, especially if the 3 point shooting is not an aberration. Their weak point seems to be interior defense, but other than that they look really good. Backcourt is really good, as are the wings.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:11 PM
Also, who had TJ Warren as NCSU's best freshman? Heck, he might be their best player so far.

dchen09
11-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Also, who had TJ Warren as NCSU's best freshman? Heck, he might be their best player so far.

I can't wait to play NC State and see how Purvis and Sulaimon match up. Purvis definitely has some talent but is often out of control. He's also pretty undisciplined on defense.

pamtar
11-27-2012, 09:19 PM
Trey Burke has looked like the best PG in the country tonight. 11 assists with 0 turnoovers and 15 pts. State has a chance here late.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:24 PM
Weird. Ted Valentine makes a bad call against a school in NC not from Chapel Hill?

loran16
11-27-2012, 09:24 PM
CJ Leslie ladies and Gentlemen! Dumb Basketball at its finest.

pamtar
11-27-2012, 09:25 PM
Well, State had a chance until teddy valentine showed up.

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 09:27 PM
Wow. I did not like either of those two calls against State. You just do not call offensive foul there. Then the walk call was horrible. Should have been a foul call on Michigan and 3 point play.

State may have lost either way but those two calls took away any chance to finish the comeback. Dang it!

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:28 PM
Wow. I did not like either of those two calls against State. You just do not call offensive foul there. Then the walk call was horrible. Should have been a foul call on Michigan and 3 point play.

State may have lost either way but those two calls took away any chance to finish the comeback. Dang it!

I don't even think it was a walk at all... he took two steps. They were SLOW steps, but still only two that I saw.

pamtar
11-27-2012, 09:29 PM
State is a joke. Their zone is a joke. And Mark Gottfried is a joke.

The hook call was horrible. The walk call was 50/50. Still, state lost the game in the first 10 minutes of the second half...

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:32 PM
State is a joke. Their zone is a joke. And Mark Gottfried is a joke.

Just watch... they'll play their best basketball against UNC and Duke. Will Gottfried be the Tom O'Brien of ACC Basketball?

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:35 PM
And now Roy gets to see what a REAL Zeller looks like up close.

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 09:36 PM
I don't even think it was a walk at all... he took two steps. They were SLOW steps, but still only two that I saw.

Agreed. Tirico made it seem like it was an obvious walk. I was never a fan of when they allow the player to walk after a foul and give him the bucket but that didn't seem to be a walk.

But leave it to Teddy Valentine to ruin a good game. It is okay b/c I tuned in to watch Teddy V, not a basketball game. I don't know how the ACC teams haven't petitioned to remove Hess and Valentine.

pamtar
11-27-2012, 09:36 PM
Just watch... they'll play their best basketball against UNC and Duke. Will Gottfried be the Tom O'Brien of ACC Basketball?

Well, they would have to sweep FSU to compare Gottfried to TOB ;)

Your're 100% right though. They'll bring it for us and the heels for sure...

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Just watch... they'll play their best basketball against UNC and Duke. Will Gottfried be the Tom O'Brien of ACC Basketball?

Is that a surprise? Everyone does this and it hurts Duke and UNC b/c they'll look lackluster against a team that got blown out by OSU.

pamtar
11-27-2012, 09:39 PM
I think UNC has a decent chance of winning this game. IU, save Zeller, is a tad bit overrated IMO.

Edit: total retraction of previous statement

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:41 PM
I think UNC has a decent chance of winning this game. IU, save Zeller, is a tad bit overrated IMO.

Not if Strickland keeps shooting jumpers 5 seconds into the shot clock.

pamtar
11-27-2012, 09:45 PM
Not if Strickland keeps shooting jumpers 5 seconds into the shot clock.

Dumb shot. How about that run out by Zeller. I wonder how good Tyler would have been without the injuries?

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:48 PM
Dumb shot. How about that run out by Zeller. I wonder how good Tyler would have been without the injuries?

I wonder if their dad just told them to forget about rebounding and run the floor.

moonpie23
11-27-2012, 09:57 PM
unc takes the lead......hoosiers better start taking the heels seriously.......

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 09:59 PM
unc takes the lead......hoosiers better start taking the heels seriously.......

I am pretty sure that every team that plays UNC takes them seriously. IU's problem is that UNC is actually playing hard.

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 10:14 PM
I am pretty sure that every team that plays UNC takes them seriously. IU's problem is that UNC is actually playing hard.

Indiana is not playing smart basketball thus far. They are in too big of a hurry. They need to settle down and break down UNC defense with good ball movement and screening. They have gotten easy buckets the few times they have done that. IU needs to also tighten up their defense. They are giving UNC too many easy looks at the basket.

All that and IU still leads. Going to be interesting 2nd half. So far IU is not the best team I have seen this year, certainly not with how they are playing right now.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Indiana is not playing smart basketball thus far. They are in too big of a hurry. They need to settle down and break down UNC defense with good ball movement and screening. They have gotten easy buckets the few times they have done that. IU needs to also tighten up their defense. They are giving UNC too many easy looks at the basket.

All that and IU still leads. Going to be interesting 2nd half. So far IU is not the best team I have seen this year, certainly not with how they are playing right now.

Agreed. They're a bit rough around the edges. Watford seems to have regressed. And Zeller gets pushed around a lot more than his brother did. Cody is better offensively, but Tyler was better all-around. Though Cody blocks more shots.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:18 PM
Agreed. They're a bit rough around the edges. Watford seems to have regressed. And Zeller gets pushed around a lot more than his brother did. Cody is better offensively, but Tyler was better all-around. Though Cody blocks more shots.

Then as we say that, they start playing like a #1 team...

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:20 PM
11-2 run by IU and a follow dunk by Zeller. And Roy keeps saving his timeouts.

TheDevilMadeMeDoIt
11-27-2012, 10:24 PM
11-2 run by IU and a follow dunk by Zeller. And Roy keeps saving his timeouts.

How does any coach let an 11 to 2 run occur, and not call a timeout. Well someone tell Roy the timeout he didn't use is now gone. If he is not the worst "good" coach in the country, I don't know who is.

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 10:25 PM
11-2 run by IU and a follow dunk by Zeller. And Roy keeps saving his timeouts.

IU is fairly impressive but not one of those #1, blow you away teams. This is a terrible match up for UNC b/c Roy only has 1 speed which is "go" but that is Indiana's perfect pace and UNC doesn't match up with Indiana's horses.

I think Duke would match up pretty well with IU as they will be able to slow them down and wouldn't let them get out in transition nor get easy baskets. Thankfully, UNC has allowed us to learn to play against teams like this. One concern is offensive boarding as Zeller looks like he could kill us on the boards.

And never realized how much Tom Crean sounded like Tom Arnold.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
IU is fairly impressive but not one of those #1, blow you away teams. This is a terrible match up for UNC b/c Roy only has 1 speed which is "go" but that is Indiana's perfect pace and UNC doesn't match up with Indiana's horses.

I think Duke would match up pretty well with IU as they will be able to slow them down and wouldn't let them get out in transition nor get easy baskets. Thankfully, UNC has allowed us to learn to play against teams like this. One concern is offensive boarding as Zeller looks like he could kill us on the boards.

And never realized how much Tom Crean sounded like Tom Arnold.

To be fair, no team is a blow you away #1 team. All three of the top 3 look #1 worthy at times, and at times do not.

Going to be an interesting season for sure... I suspect we'll see more than 1 surprise final four team this year.

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
How does any coach let an 11 to 2 run occur, and not call a timeout. Well someone tell Roy the timeout he didn't use is now gone. If he is not the worst "good" coach in the country, I don't know who is.

He doesn't adapt at all. Without a Lawson type, his offense is worthless and he doesn't preach defense too much. JMM doesn't look like he has developed much at all. Paige looks a bit outmatched. Could be a long year for UNC.

But just look at UNC's 2009-10 roster, you really think K doesn't finish as a tournament team with Ed Davis, Zeller, Deon Thompson and company?

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
Yeah, right on cue I guess. Nice run by IU. Nice posterize by the Sheehey kid on Brice Johnson.

UNC getting beat at their own bread and butter.. those IU runouts off makes and misses are killing the heels. Unc just looks disjointed on offense too. The scheme seems very different from years past for some reason. They are using much of a traditional post offense where the big sets up on the block, gets the pass, then makes the post move. Very little of that which must be causing Wheat to scream loud enough to scare the fish away! :cool:

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 10:30 PM
To be fair, no team is a blow you away #1 team. All three of the top 3 look #1 worthy at times, and at times do not.

Going to be an interesting season for sure... I suspect we'll see more than 1 surprise final four team this year.

Yes, I wasn't suggesting that someone is better but that IU is one of the least complete #1 teams in recent memory.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:32 PM
Yeah, right on cue I guess. Nice run by IU. Nice posterize by the Sheehey kid on Brice Johnson.

UNC getting beat at their own bread and butter.. those IU runouts off makes and misses are killing the heels. Unc just looks disjointed on offense too. The scheme seems very different from years past for some reason. They are using much of a traditional post offense where the big sets up on the block, gets the pass, then makes the post move. Very little of that which must be causing Wheat to scream loud enough to scare the fish away! :cool:

Because Roy doesn't have the talent anymore. They all went to the NBA. JMM was never a go to guy and likely never will be. Imagine if you had to run your offense through Jon Henson every play.... ugh. He's got a better build but less length than Henson, but the offensive game is very similar.

Paige isn't the real deal (yet) and Strickland/McDonald were better suited as role players. What's weird is that I know Hairston is injured, but where the heck is Bullock?

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:36 PM
Because Roy doesn't have the talent anymore. They all went to the NBA. JMM was never a go to guy and likely never will be. Imagine if you had to run your offense through Jon Henson every play.... ugh. He's got a better build but less length than Henson, but the offensive game is very similar.

Paige isn't the real deal (yet) and Strickland/McDonald were better suited as role players. What's weird is that I know Hairston is injured, but where the heck is Bullock?

Just checked the box score - Bullock is out-rebounding JMM. Not something you want to see.

CoachJ10
11-27-2012, 10:45 PM
I think Mich and IU both have some weaknesses in the middle that could/should be exploited.

NC State had their way with Michigan inside (and should have done way more damage...the refs let UM hack the Pack every time they were in the paint). Zeller is not really a good on ball post defender, and they have no one else that is an interior defender/rebounder.

Both Mich and IU are good shooting teams...but these are not defensive minded teams.

Also...watching these games reminds me why I just don't like Big Ten + infinity basketball...so physical, so much grabbing and pushing.

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 10:46 PM
Because Roy doesn't have the talent anymore. They all went to the NBA. JMM was never a go to guy and likely never will be. Imagine if you had to run your offense through Jon Henson every play.... ugh. He's got a better build but less length than Henson, but the offensive game is very similar.

Paige isn't the real deal (yet) and Strickland/McDonald were better suited as role players. What's weird is that I know Hairston is injured, but where the heck is Bullock?

I don't think you can just say he doesn't have the talent anymore. I know McD AA isn't the end all be all but he still has 5 AA on this team with Paige, JMM, Strickland, Bullock, and Hairston. And these guys have shown they are capable of producing it certain situations, I think it is more, Roy only knows how to coach one way and when his teams have to run a half court offense and play defense, they look terrible.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:47 PM
I think Mich and IU both have some weaknesses in the middle that could/should be exploited.

NC State had their way with Michigan inside (and should have done way more damage...the refs let UM hack the Pack every time they were in the paint). Zeller is not really a good on ball post defender, and they have no one else that is an interior defender/rebounder.

Both Mich and IU are good shooting teams...but these are not defensive minded teams.

Also...watching these games reminds me why I just don't like Big Ten + infinity basketball...so physical, so much grabbing and pushing.

It's likely why FSU lost their game. They can't handle their own style of ball. :)

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:48 PM
I don't think you can just say he doesn't have the talent anymore. I know McD AA isn't the end all be all but he still has 5 AA on this team with Paige, JMM, Strickland, Bullock, and Hairston. And these guys have shown they are capable of producing it certain situations, I think it is more, Roy only knows how to coach one way and when his teams have to run a half court offense and play defense, they look terrible.

Yea it is coaching, too. But I think he has a bunch of role players right now. His successful teams all had guys you could count on. This team, you never know what you get night after night from them.

superdave
11-27-2012, 10:48 PM
Wake was back and forth with Nebraska for a while, but is now down big. If you talk a Wake fan, they will go out of their way to tell you their opinion of their coach. That is going to end ugly. The Joel is empty tonight.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 10:49 PM
Wake was back and forth with Nebraska for a while, but is now down big. If you talk a Wake fan, they will go out of their way to tell you their opinion of their coach. That is going to end ugly. The Joel is empty tonight.

It's bad when your coach makes you long for the days of Dino Gaudio.

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
And the rout is on! Roy waits for it to get to 19 down then calls the TO. Awesome. Unc just looks very disjointed, and here is where I will defend K. Roy is playing too many players. Especially given how young this team is and all the returnee;s are role players. They look lost. Everyone is looking at someone else to be the team leader and end result is no one steps up and takes the reins....

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
I think Mich and IU both have some weaknesses in the middle that could/should be exploited.

NC State had their way with Michigan inside (and should have done way more damage...the refs let UM hack the Pack every time they were in the paint). Zeller is not really a good on ball post defender, and they have no one else that is an interior defender/rebounder.

Both Mich and IU are good shooting teams...but these are not defensive minded teams.

Also...watching these games reminds me why I just don't like Big Ten + infinity basketball...so physical, so much grabbing and pushing.

IU-Duke would be a good match up. I think it would come down to which big man could stay out of foul trouble or more about which one got into foul trouble quicker. Like I said before, their rebounding scares me esp. with our prowess on the boards but as we've found out before in the tourney, live by the 3, die by the 3.

BigZ
11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
I think I enjoy UNC losing more than Duke winning.

moonpie23
11-27-2012, 10:51 PM
tarholes don't like it when THEY get their shot blocked....

dchen09
11-27-2012, 10:52 PM
UNC is really lost on defense. Regularly getting beaten on screens. Another thing that Coach K preaches is being strong with the ball> UNC clearly has not learned this lesson. Balls getting tipped around, getting blocked, not getting rebounds. Not sure Strickland and bullock have developed anything in the 4,3 years the've been at UNC. Doesn't seem too different from their freshmen years.

uh_no
11-27-2012, 10:54 PM
UNC is really lost on defense. Regularly getting beaten on screens. Another thing that Coach K preaches is being strong with the ball> UNC clearly has not learned this lesson. Balls getting tipped around, getting blocked, not getting rebounds. Not sure Strickland and bullock have developed anything in the 4,3 years the've been at UNC. Doesn't seem too different from their freshmen years.

they box out about as well as a paper bag

CoachJ10
11-27-2012, 10:56 PM
IU-Duke would be a good match up. I think it would come down to which big man could stay out of foul trouble or more about which one got into foul trouble quicker. Like I said before, their rebounding scares me esp. with our prowess on the boards but as we've found out before in the tourney, live by the 3, die by the 3.

Like last year when the refs let Sullinger channel his inner Hanstravel and get some cheap calls on Mase (meanwhile not getting any calls on himself).

But yea, Duke / IU would be a good matchup...I like our matchups at most positions, especially Kelly against Wofford/Sheehy. Mase would do very well against Cody, in my opinion.

moonpie23
11-27-2012, 11:02 PM
this reminds me of our game last year against OHS....refs letting IU do just about anything they want.......not trying to defend the holes, but, seriously, unc can't get a call...

BD80
11-27-2012, 11:03 PM
Tin Heels need to see the Wizard, they've got no heart

CoachJ10
11-27-2012, 11:07 PM
this reminds me of our game last year against OHS....refs letting IU do just about anything they want.......not trying to defend the holes, but, seriously, unc can't get a call...

Big 10+I basketball...grab grab on the perimeter...push hack in the paint.

Meanwhile Ryan Kelly breathes in the wrong direction and is in foul trouble.

FerryFor50
11-27-2012, 11:08 PM
this reminds me of our game last year against OHS....refs letting IU do just about anything they want.......not trying to defend the holes, but, seriously, unc can't get a call...

I dunno. UNC's been getting away with their fair share, too.

Mal
11-27-2012, 11:11 PM
Re: the UNC discussion going on, yes, of course it's a talent falloff. They lost four guys to the draft. McD's guys on the roster or not (and Duke fans should know that being a McD's doesn't necessarily mean you're ubertalented and destined to score 20 ppg in big time college ball), they have to have their 5th through 9th guys from last year's squad start now. They're leaderless and don't have a go-to offensive guy who can get them points when they need them. It shows on the defense, too; they look disorganized.

Agreed with the notes above about IU, too. They're a solid looking team, but nothing really sticks out to me there that says "championship squad" tonight. It's a decent representation of the general diminishment of talent at the college level. Defensive intensity from a team like Duke might very well take them off their game and force poor shooting. That said, I like their inside-out work and the passing. They seem to know when and how to get it to the high post and into the blocks, even if they're not particularly explosive off the dribble or have a wing guy who just blows by people. Taking care of the ball and shot selection are solid, and not what I'd expect out of a Crean team.

ACC is getting its rear end handed to it tonight. Not a good sign, although the outcomes of each of the games so far has been as expected (just with bigger margins than expected in some of them). Minnesota dismantling FSU in Tallahassee bodes well for our S.O.S. (as did their wins over Memphis and Stanford in the Bahamas). That's a pretty solid, legit top 20 team, and we never gave them a chance.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-27-2012, 11:12 PM
Note to those in charge of setting up the post-game press conference:

Make sure Ole Roy's mic is ready BEFORE he sits down... It could get ugly tonight!

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 11:15 PM
Couldn't help myself from going over to IC. Some are going doom and gloom over there saying that it might be the end of an era and that without getting a recruit like Wiggins, they'll struggle for years to come. Don't necessarily agree but I'll enjoy watching it.

jipops
11-27-2012, 11:20 PM
Couldn't help myself from going over to IC. Some are going doom and gloom over there saying that it might be the end of an era and that without getting a recruit like Wiggins, they'll struggle for years to come. Don't necessarily agree but I'll enjoy watching it.

That is truly ridiculous. UNC still puts a ton of talent out on the floor, Final Four type talent. I would say they match us in talent if not more. The effort is just clearly not there for a full 40, or even more than 20 minutes. I thought they did a good job with their pressure for the first 15 minutes but it seemed to fall apart after that. Now they appear listless and leaderless.

striker219
11-27-2012, 11:22 PM
Seriously, Carolina fans are probably pretty upset right now.

For those of you with the lighter shade of blue scattered across your phone books, it may be time to pick up your phone and test out your cell providers definition of "unlimited messaging."

loran16
11-27-2012, 11:22 PM
Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS


The "Blocking Out 101" course at North Carolina must've been one of those no-show classes, too.

Boom.

moonpie23
11-27-2012, 11:22 PM
it's called "entitlement".......when unc doesn't GET the calls and doesn't SCORE more points, they get bummed...

Duvall
11-27-2012, 11:22 PM
That is truly ridiculous. UNC still puts a ton of talent out on the floor, Final Four type talent. I would say they match us in talent if not more.

Never change, man.

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 11:24 PM
Re: the UNC discussion going on, yes, of course it's a talent falloff. They lost four guys to the draft. McD's guys on the roster or not (and Duke fans should know that being a McD's doesn't necessarily mean you're ubertalented and destined to score 20 ppg in big time college ball), they have to have their 5th through 9th guys from last year's squad start now. They're leaderless and don't have a go-to offensive guy who can get them points when they need them. It shows on the defense, too; they look disorganized.


I agree regarding the McD AA that it doesn't guarantee success, heck Eric Boateng was an AA but it is usually a good indicator of talent and to miss on 5 would be pretty significant. I'm also not just using the McD AA designation as their players have shown glimpses at times. I think UNC is obviously more talented than they've shown tonight and we'll see how things evolve the rest of the year but I think chalking this up to a lack of talent isn't fair.

moonpie23
11-27-2012, 11:26 PM
IU trying to showboat here at the end......letting unc score some points...

sporthenry
11-27-2012, 11:29 PM
No 82-50 but I'll take a UNC loss when I can get it. Hopefully they look like this in February and March.

jipops
11-27-2012, 11:30 PM
Never change, man.

I'm trying very hard to evolve.

roywhite
11-27-2012, 11:31 PM
Impressed with Indiana. Michigan is also good, but somewhere near the top of that conference is Minnesota.

And I'm impressed with a team that could beat Minnesota by 18.

striker219
11-27-2012, 11:33 PM
It might be petty, but it's kinda nice to see Carolina lose this year worse than we did last year in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge.

Newton_14
11-27-2012, 11:36 PM
Anyone know if ESPN will carry the post game press conferences? Would love to watch Ol Roy after this one.

Dukeblue91
11-27-2012, 11:53 PM
Anyone know if ESPN will carry the post game press conferences? Would love to watch Ol Roy after this one.

I could not find it but I'm sure he ran the bus over them and backed over too.

The ACC looked bad tonight and I mean really bad.

IBleedBlue
11-28-2012, 12:00 AM
I am pleased with a carolina loss but I also look at the positives. Atleast everyone on their team got a chance to play against a top ranked team while Alex Murphy is sitting on our bench.

Newton_14
11-28-2012, 12:10 AM
I am pleased with a carolina loss but I also look at the positives. Atleast everyone on their team got a chance to play against a top ranked team while Alex Murphy is sitting on our bench.

So you would rather Duke had gotten blown out against Louisville with K playing Alex and all other scholarship players at least 10 minutes or so, than K managing the bench as he did in the Duke win?

juise
11-28-2012, 12:40 AM
So you would rather Duke had gotten blown out against Louisville with K playing Alex and all other scholarship players at least 10 minutes or so, than K managing the bench as he did in the Duke win?

I originally read the post as sarcasm, but when I checked the Murphy thread, I saw that the poster advocated getting Alex in a "real" game, so I'm not sure. I would love for someone to explain how playing in a game where your team gets destroyed and the other team starts trying to show off develops a young player's game. I can see how experiencing "game pressure" is useful, but there wasn't much of that in the second half of this one.

Bojangles4Eva
11-28-2012, 12:42 AM
Anyone know if ESPN will carry the post game press conferences? Would love to watch Ol Roy after this one.

They post them on IC http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=10756504

Some decent stuff in this one. Admitted the team was not well coached enough about midway through...

CDu
11-28-2012, 09:23 AM
UNC appears to be illustrating all the questions that we had about them coming into the season. McAdoo appears to have made a mistake in coming back. He was expected to be a lottery pick this past summer if he'd gone, but right now he appears to have no offensive game at all (scoring mainly on fast breaks, broken plays, putbacks, and catch-and-finish chances). Nonexistent post game, poor shooting touch, and not a defensive stalwart either.

The big thing missing right now for UNC is any sort of identity on offense. They have a bunch of role players and a few shooters, but nobody to be a go-to guy (unless one of the shooters is red-hot). None of the good shooters appear to be good at creating their own shot and their ballhandlers aren't great shooters. They also don't have anyone they can dump the ball down to and expect a productive offensive result, which is drastically different than the last decade of May, Hansbrough, and Zeller/Henson. It's a bit of a mess over there on the Hill. I'm not sure that Williams can fix it, either.

Perhaps the team will find its identity on the perimeter, with McDonald, Bullock, and Hairston leading the way. They may need to go small (with Bullock or Hairston at PF and McAdoo at C) and hope to outrun/outgun their opposition. Or maybe one of the freshmen big men steps up and ably replaces Hubert. Maybe Paige grows into an elite playmaker as the season progresses. But right now, it's hard to see them threatening for the ACC.

Billy Dat
11-28-2012, 09:51 AM
Carolina is an extremely young team, and their veterans are largely untested and unseasoned due to injury plagued careers. It doesn't surprise me that they have struggled. I though they competed really well for most of the first half. Once IU got rolling in the last few minutes of the first half, though, their lack of leadership and experience, which many others have commented on, showed up. This will be a good test of Roy's coaching. His team is currently completely broken down after a whupping like that one on national TV against the #1 team. Can he build them back up?

I thought the kid Brice Johnson was a bright spot for the Heels. He has a nice shooting touch and seemed really smooth.

As for Indiana, I am surprised so many on the board think they are over-rated. They have looked really solid the games I have watched this year. They have balance, play really hard, and have a superstar to lean on. Zeller, as a bonus, seems to play harder than anyone, clearly leading from the front. He was killing the Heels in transition. They are a tough team.

NC State made a game of it in Ann Arbor, they really fought to the end and were right in the mix. Had a couple of late calls gone their way (Leslie's charge and Brown's travel), they may have pulled an upset. They should be tough, we'll see if they can be consistent. You know they'll play hard against Duke, especially after last year's big comeback. Michigan also looks really tough. McGarry impressed me. For a kid who talks big, he seems to be backing it up so far.

FerryFor50
11-28-2012, 10:09 AM
Carolina is an extremely young team, and their veterans are largely untested and unseasoned due to injury plagued careers. It doesn't surprise me that they have struggled. I though they competed really well for most of the first half. Once IU got rolling in the last few minutes of the first half, though, their lack of leadership and experience, which many others have commented on, showed up. This will be a good test of Roy's coaching. His team is currently completely broken down after a whupping like that one on national TV against the #1 team. Can he build them back up?

I thought the kid Brice Johnson was a bright spot for the Heels. He has a nice shooting touch and seemed really smooth.

As for Indiana, I am surprised so many on the board think they are over-rated. They have looked really solid the games I have watched this year. They have balance, play really hard, and have a superstar to lean on. Zeller, as a bonus, seems to play harder than anyone, clearly leading from the front. He was killing the Heels in transition. They are a tough team.

NC State made a game of it in Ann Arbor, they really fought to the end and were right in the mix. Had a couple of late calls gone their way (Leslie's charge and Brown's travel), they may have pulled an upset. They should be tough, we'll see if they can be consistent. You know they'll play hard against Duke, especially after last year's big comeback. Michigan also looks really tough. McGarry impressed me. For a kid who talks big, he seems to be backing it up so far.

Totally agreed on Brice Johnson. I was thinking the same watching the game - he's already more polished offensively than JMM as far as I can see.

CDu
11-28-2012, 10:13 AM
Totally agreed on Brice Johnson. I was thinking the same watching the game - he's already more polished offensively than JMM as far as I can see.

Yeah, he is the guy I had in mind in my "another big steps up and replaces Hubert" suggestion. The question would be whether a McAdoo/Johnson frontcourt could work physically. But I guess that's a moot point, since clearly a Hubert/McAdoo frontcourt doesn't work.

Pairing McAdoo and Johnson would give the Heels length and athleticism on the frontcourt, and it does appear that Johnson has at least some offensive game (unlike McAdoo or Hubert). So maybe that would work. If Johnson could be an effective go-to post player, that would allow McAdoo to be the off-ball post player where he excels.

That's a big "if" though with regard to Johnson. And they'd still have an inconsistent and unproven backcourt.

BD80
11-28-2012, 01:42 PM
They post them on IC http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=10756504

Some decent stuff in this one. Admitted the team was not well coached enough about midway through...

So now ol' roy's blaming Steve Robinson?

bird
11-28-2012, 01:49 PM
NC State made a game of it in Ann Arbor, they really fought to the end and were right in the mix. Had a couple of late calls gone their way (Leslie's charge and Brown's travel), they may have pulled an upset. They should be tough, we'll see if they can be consistent. You know they'll play hard against Duke, especially after last year's big comeback.

My read of the end of game was not "calls going against them" but rather "showing a lack of maturity at crunch time." I am left in fundamental doubt about NC State despite an otherwise credible performance.

Billy Dat
11-28-2012, 02:36 PM
My read of the end of game was not "calls going against them" but rather "showing a lack of maturity at crunch time." I am left in fundamental doubt about NC State despite an otherwise credible performance.

I don't think the calls were wrong, but they could have gone either way. The Leslie charge was a good call, but usually when the big man makes that drop step and doesn't hook the defender with his hand but keeps his elbows out, he'll be ok. Leslie's elbow went up into McGarry's (I think) ribs, had they been a foot lower and caught him at the waist, the basket is good and maybe he even gets hoop and harm. Brown did walk, but he also made the basket. Point is, I felt like they made aggressive mistakes and weren't turning the ball over willy nilly. I doubted State after they were pummeled by Okie State in Puerto Rico. But, playing a true road game against the #3 team in the country and the game being up for grabs in the last 2 minutes? I feel like they have restored some credibility.