State Fires Tom O'Brien

[mkline09]

Feel free to move or delete if not considered valid but this just confuses the heck out of me. Can't see what Debbie Yow is thinking here in firing Tom O'Brien. You fire a coach that is winning you 7-8 games and getting to a bowl on average because you think your program is what elite? NC State is the third best team in their own division. Nothing wrong with aiming high but this is just being a bit too unrealistic. They've won 10 or more games I think one time in history. I just don't see this being an elite program. Can they be good? Sure. Can they catch lightening in a bottle? Of course. But being a consistent 10, 11, 12, game winner isn't happening and the delusions of grandeur that State and its fans suffer from will cost them. Nobody is going to want this job with more attractive openings available. Head scratcher in my opinion.:confused:

[CameronBornAndBred]

WOW! Talk about not appreciating what you have.

[Newton_14]

This is a huge, huge mistake. Bigtime mistake. I think Yow has lost her mind. She got incredibly lucky with the Gottfried hire after missing on every single target. TOB ran a good program and like Cutcliffe, had to deal with an abnormal amount of injuries.

Who exactly, is she going to get that will be better?

Bad move..

[CDu]

Bill Cowher!!! Just kidding.

But seriously, O'Brien wasn't a Yow hire, and as such was under extra scrutiny. The team never seemed to be able to get over the hump, never seemed to win those big recruiting battles with UNC (though they won a bunch against the Heels).

I assume that she has a target already in mind. But if not, we'll see.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

This is a huge, huge mistake. Bigtime mistake. I think Yow has lost her mind. She got incredibly lucky with the Gottfried hire after missing on every single target. TOB ran a good program and like Cutcliffe, had to deal with an abnormal amount of injuries.

Who exactly, is she going to get that will be better?

Bad move..
I doubt that this firing is the work of just one person. There has been pressure from fans and others who want to be big time NOW. That reality was too slow coming for them.

I know of another coach who couldn't win enough for a greedy fan base and intolerant university. After a couple of stops, he's now at a world class university making a long term contribution to greatness.

[Class of '94]

Bill Cowher!!! Just kidding.

But seriously, O'Brien wasn't a Yow hire, and as such was under extra scrutiny. The team never seemed to be able to get over the hump, never seemed to win those big recruiting battles with UNC (though they won a bunch against the Heels).

I assume that she has a target already in mind. But if not, we'll see.

There are coaches out of jobs right now that she could pick from if she goes to the "retread" route. Maybe, with several coaches out there, she thought now was the time. It will be interesting to see if she goes with a young, up and coming coach or someone with some history of success. With the changing landscape in college football and conference realignment concerns, this could've been a move that was made with the hope and desire to position State with more attractive football program. That being said, I agree with you that I think she already has a person in mind. Maybe....Ralph Friedgen?? ;)

[CameronBornAndBred]

I nominate Kurt Roper.

[wilko]

Butch Davis might be available...

[Bob Green]

I nominate Kurt Roper.

I second the nomination!

[devildeac]

I nominate Kurt Roper.


I second the nomination!

Don't be so fast to show Kurt the door, gentlemen. His forces generated ~580 yards of offense and 45 points yesterday. This guy's efforts gave up 199 points the last four games and over 2400 yards:eek::

2964

[OldPhiKap]

Offense is not our problem, and not every play is designed for ten yards plus.

Regarding State, big mistake. Texas and Tennessee will get to pick their coaches before State gets a sniff. Auburn possibly as well. State is probably a better gig than Kentucky. So you are maybe the second-worst option in the SouthEast?

[AtlBluRew]

Hey, DBR, on the home page you attribute te firing to Kay Yow, not Debbie.

[PDDuke85]

Kay The Impatient Strikes

Very respectfully asking that the above be changed. Kay was the courageous sister of current NC State AD.

[summerwind03]

Hey, DBR, on the home page you attribute te firing to Kay Yow, not Debbie.

Yes, that's weird.

[davekay1971]

I think this is a colossal mistake. TOB wasn't going to win a natty, but he was going to get NCSU into a bowl every year, get them 8 or so wins every year. Word on the NCSU rumor mill is Yow wants La Tech's coach, for whatever that's worth. Regardless, i feel echoes of firing Herb for just being good. State went backwards for half a decade before Gottfried (based on early returns only) righted the ship. Hopefully their football doesn't have the same pattern, but it's on Yow if that happens.

[YmoBeThere]

From Yow's profile at gopack.com:

Yow's expectations are clear and concise:


Every sport with a full complement of scholarships should be among the nation's top 25, working towards the top 10 and competing for conference and national championships.



Whether that expectation is reasonable is another question.

[mkline09]

I think this is a colossal mistake. TOB wasn't going to win a natty, but he was going to get NCSU into a bowl every year, get them 8 or so wins every year. Word on the NCSU rumor mill is Yow wants La Tech's coach, for whatever that's worth. Regardless, i feel echoes of firing Herb for just being good. State went backwards for half a decade before Gottfried (based on early returns only) righted the ship. Hopefully their football doesn't have the same pattern, but it's on Yow if that happens.

I honestly think some state fans are delusional and would sell their souls for winning. A certain group of the State world thinks they can compete for National Titles and that just isn't going to happen. A great example that seems comparable is Ole' Miss Firing Cut after one losing season. Just feel they will regret this down the road. Horrible Horrible decision.

[77devil]

I doubt that this firing is the work of just one person. There has been pressure from fans and others who want to be big time NOW. That reality was too slow coming for them.

Calling Butch Davis.

[CameronBlue]

I honestly think some state fans are delusional and would sell their souls for winning. I actually think this is truer of UNC fans of course it's hard to sell what you don't possess.

[moonpie23]

he lost to unc...

[Dukeblue91]

I'm just throwing this out there but maybe he got fired for something totally different and not because of his coaching record.
But I really don't know and am just thinking out loud.
And State fans have always been somewhat delusional in regards to how their teams should be doing, wait and see what happens if the mens BB program ends up imploding this season instead of being as good as everybody thought they be.

[WakeDevil]

Those who think that NC State should be satisfied with what it had should say that the Duke basketball program should be happy with what Wisconsin has had for the past ten or so years. Not bad, but not good enough.

O'Brien could not win enough recruiting battles and was costing the program mucho dineros in lack of fan support. This was supposed to be his best team, and it didn't get the job done. Head to Pack Pride, usually an insane asylum, for the details. This firing has widespread support.

[pamtar]

Those who think that NC State should be satisfied with what it had should say that the Duke basketball program should be happy with what Wisconsin has had for the past ten or so years. Not bad, but not good enough.

O'Brien could not win enough recruiting battles and was costing the program mucho dineros in lack of fan support. This was supposed to be his best team, and it didn't get the job done. Head to Pack Pride, usually an insane asylum, for the details. This firing has widespread support.

Great points. I'll add that as a State football (only) fan, I feel that we've been toying with excellence for a decade now. Don't get me wrong, it's great to make a bowl every year. But when that bowl is the papajohns.com bowl it tends to get stale. Had Amato made a BCS bowl he would probably still be coaching in Raleigh. (We got robbed the year FSU went with a much worse overall record.) Lack of discipline and ~100yds of penalties per game got him fired. O'Brien did away with the penalties and also with the recruiting (save Russell, Glennon, and a few others) and the lock-down D that Amato teams were known for. Overall your left with the same product, just a different way of getting to it.

I think State deserves better. Hell, I was not pumped on this season at all. I watched more Duke games than Pack games this year. At least Cut is IMPROVING. With all the money invested into athletics at State I think they (I, I guess) have a right to expect more without being labeled delusional. But as college football exist now, and for the foreseeable future, I don't think its gonna happen...

[Bob Green]

With all the money invested into athletics at State I think they (I, I guess) have a right to expect more without being labeled delusional...

Nope, you are delusional!

[kingboozer]

O'Brien ran a clean, medicore football program at NC State just like he did at BC. He's a good coach and he will get another job somewhere but NC State under Yow wants more than mediocre and beating UNC (which shouldn't be too much to ask considering the money they pour into athletics and the facilities they have). She said herself today she sees the program as a top tier, top 25 football program. If I were the ACC, I'd keep my eyes on them bolting, they may get "Texas A&M fever" and be sick of being in UNC's shadows before too long. If top 25 is what they really want, then it was a no brainer to cut ties with O'Brien. Personally, I would have left it alone until after the bowl game, but they didn't ask me!;)

[roywhite]

Those who think that NC State should be satisfied with what it had should say that the Duke basketball program should be happy with what Wisconsin has had for the past ten or so years. Not bad, but not good enough.

O'Brien could not win enough recruiting battles and was costing the program mucho dineros in lack of fan support. This was supposed to be his best team, and it didn't get the job done. Head to Pack Pride, usually an insane asylum, for the details. This firing has widespread support.

Sounds awfully similar to discussion about Herb Sendek; yeah, he won some, but wasn't getting primo recruits, his style was not exciting, guy had no charisma, etc.
That transition didn't work well; pardon us if we're skeptical about this move.

[mike88]

From Yow's profile at gopack.com:

Yow's expectations are clear and concise:


Every sport with a full complement of scholarships should be among the nation's top 25, working towards the top 10 and competing for conference and national championships.



Whether that expectation is reasonable is another question.

It's not reasonable, if for no other reason than there being 100+ other universities out there with a "full complement of scholarships" who are looking to do the same. I enjoy college football, but the idea that every school is going to be in the Top 10 or 25 on a regular basis just leads to the ongoing arms race in spending (e.g Chizik getting a 7.5 M buy-out), and creates the potential for behaviors like we have seen at UNC and Miami recently.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

O'Brien ran a clean, medicore football program at NC State just like he did at BC. He's a good coach and he will get another job somewhere but NC State under Yow wants more than mediocre and beating UNC (which shouldn't be too much to ask considering the money they pour into athletics and the facilities they have). She said herself today she sees the program as a top tier, top 25 football program. If I were the ACC, I'd keep my eyes on them bolting, they may get "Texas A&M fever" and be sick of being in UNC's shadows before too long. If top 25 is what they really want, then it was a no brainer to cut ties with O'Brien. Personally, I would have left it alone until after the bowl game, but they didn't ask me!;)

Agreed, it's possible NCSU is positioning itself as a top-level program to make themselves more attractive to the B1G or the SEC. I think there are several similarities between Texas A&M and State, both psychological and physical.

[Reilly]

Calling Butch Davis.

I saw on youtube that he's actually clean and didn't have anything to do with those problems. Some rogue assistant.

[PackMan97]

Sounds awfully similar to discussion about Herb Sendek; yeah, he won some, but wasn't getting primo recruits, his style was not exciting, guy had no charisma, etc.
That transition didn't work well; pardon us if we're skeptical about this move.

The difference is that Lee Fowler was happy with Sendek. We had a healthy revenue margin in basketball and enough fans showing up to games that there is no way Fowler would ever have made a move. So, when the fans all but shoved Sendek out (and let's face it, with happy fans, Sendek would still be at State), Fowler was left flat footed and COULD NOT hire a coach. Why? Because he didn't believe NC State should aspire to greatness. That we could challenge Carolina or Duke. That we could win recruiting battles for kids like Warren, Purvis, Barber, Anya or Randle (hopefully). When you don't believe that, it's pretty danged hard to convince a coach of that.

Yow is making this move on her terms, not waiting for the job and the fan support to get stale. She believes we can be good and has a vision to sell to the next coach. We have great facilities and won't be a rebuilding job.

The truth is TOB's success at NC State is hidden in beating a bunch of FCS schools and eeking out enough ACC victories to get bowl elligible. That might be great at Duke, but not State. He has a losing record when you include only FBS schools. He has a losing ACC record. He's 1-15 on the road in our division *eek*! His inability to beat the bad teams in the ACC is what doomed him.

This isn't a head scratcher at all. In fact it feels great to finally have someone in charge that can look at a 6 year track record and realize there is little reason another year or two will produce different results.

[OldPhiKap]

The difference is that Lee Fowler was happy with Sendek. We had a healthy revenue margin in basketball and enough fans showing up to games that there is no way Fowler would ever have made a move. So, when the fans all but shoved Sendek out (and let's face it, with happy fans, Sendek would still be at State), Fowler was left flat footed and COULD NOT hire a coach. Why? Because he didn't believe NC State should aspire to greatness. That we could challenge Carolina or Duke. That we could win recruiting battles for kids like Warren, Purvis, Barber, Anya or Randle (hopefully). When you don't believe that, it's pretty danged hard to convince a coach of that.

Yow is making this move on her terms, not waiting for the job and the fan support to get stale. She believes we can be good and has a vision to sell to the next coach. We have great facilities and won't be a rebuilding job.

The truth is TOB's success at NC State is hidden in beating a bunch of FCS schools and eeking out enough ACC victories to get bowl elligible. That might be great at Duke, but not State. He has a losing record when you include only FBS schools. He has a losing ACC record. He's 1-15 on the road in our division *eek*! His inability to beat the bad teams in the ACC is what doomed him.

This isn't a head scratcher at all. In fact it feels great to finally have someone in charge that can look at a 6 year track record and realize there is little reason another year or two will produce different results.

Interesting, and always appreciate your input.

Who does PackNation realistically think they are going to get, though? That is the problem I see.

Again, appreciate the input from a knowledgeable fan of my second-favorite ACC team. Hope y'all do well in hoops in all but the game(s) with us!

[MaxAMillion]

Hire Bobby Petrino...he would certainly do better than TOB

[OldPhiKap]

Hire Bobby Petrino...he would certainly do better than TOB

The way he Kiffin'd the Falcons, I would not want anything to do with him.

[PackMan97]

Interesting, and always appreciate your input.

Who does PackNation realistically think they are going to get, though? That is the problem I see.

Again, appreciate the input from a knowledgeable fan of my second-favorite ACC team. Hope y'all do well in hoops in all but the game(s) with us!

To be honest, I have no idea who we will get. I don't follow college football enough to know who would be targets. State is a volleyball school now :)

[uh_no]

We need to be building an indoor football facility, in hopes to achieve success on a similar level as Duke University.

Don't know if anyone caught the presser...I didn't....but this gem supposedly came out...

If she actually said that...then wow...and judging by the things she said in the presser announcing Gottfried's hiring (pretty much that he was the last choice...) I wouldn't be all that surprised

If anyone can get a source on this, that would be awesome.

[Olympic Fan]

I appreciate the problems facing Yow. On one hand, O'Brien is a quality man and a solid coach -- who is almost always going to deliver 7-8 wins and a bowl game ... plus he has a 9-2 bowl record (7-1 at BC, 2-1 at State). He runs a clean program and is quick to dismiss anybody who gets out of line.

On the other hand, that 7-8 win season is basically the ceiling. He's never going to win a championship (at least he never has). His ACC record at NC State is worse than (1) Lou Holtz; (2) Bo Rein; (3) Dick Sheridan; (4) Earle Edwards; (5) Mike O'Cain ... it is marginally better than Chuk Amato (although Amato had a better overall record).

He's dull as ... well, as Herb Sendek. The fans have never warmed to him. Under O'Brien, ticket sales and donations have consistently declined. That's the real killer for Yow -- State invested in some massive football renovations during the Amato era and needs a steady flow of football income to pay off the debt.

There is also recruiting. Under Amato, State was consistently challenging UNC for the best prospects in North Carolina -- and often getting them. That has rarely happened under O'Brien.

I will say the similarities with the Sendek situation are striking -- just one difference ... it's not delusional for NC State to believe it can be a great program in basketball because it has happened before ... it has NEVER happened in football. N.C. State has never finished in the final AP top 10 and has never played in a major bowl ... NEVER! I'm pretty sure they are the only traditional BCS school (not counting newbies like South Florida) that can say that. For years it also applied to South Carolina and while the Gamecocks have still never played in a major bowl, they did finish in the top 10 a year ago under Spurrier.

I understand the impulse to strive for greatness, but I want to see who Yow gets. Running sendek out of town was not a bad idea -- but replacing him with Sidney Lowe only made matters worse.

You can definitely do worse than Tom O'Brien.

PS I have to admit a small bit of mixed feeling to see O'Brien fired. Back in 1993, when he was the offensive coordinator at Virginia, O'Brien interviewed for the Duke coaching job. He was one of three finalists and was yjr one actually offered the head job. He surprised Tom Butters and company by turning the job down to stay at Virginia -- then used the job offer as a recruiting tool against Duke ("See, being offensive coordinator at Virginia is better than being head man at Duke."). We lucked into Fred Goldsmith later, but O'Brien's rejection -- after giving every indication tat he wanted the job -- hurt.

[brevity]

Maybe NC State is looking to hire Gene Chizik, only 2 years removed from a national title at Auburn.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8674097/gene-chizik-fired-auburn-tigers

That's if he wants the job. Turns out doing nothing will pay handsomely:


Chizik's buyout will total $7.5 million and be paid in monthly installments of $208,334 for the next 36 months.

[PackMan97]

Maybe NC State is looking to hire Gene Chizik, only 2 years removed from a national title at Auburn.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8674097/gene-chizik-fired-auburn-tigers

That's if he wants the job. Turns out doing nothing will pay handsomely:

I'm pretty sure that we won't be touching anyone with an NCAA stench on them.

[Reilly]

... O'Brien interviewed for the Duke coaching job. He was one of three finalists ....

TO'b .. Goldsmith ... and who was the 3d?

[75Crazie]

Who does PackNation realistically think they are going to get, though? That is the problem I see.
Exactly. It's easy to look at one man's record and desire to do better ... it is quite another thing to find and bring in somebody who is actually better. How many "better" coaches are available right now? I don't see them. I believe the odds of State getting better with a new coach are pretty low, and the odds of State getting worse are much higher.

I find a lot of parallels in this situation to Ole Miss firing Cutcliffe. If I remember right, they did have a good year maybe 2-3 years after that (with Nutt?), but have been in decline ever since.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Exactly. It's easy to look at one man's record and desire to do better ... it is quite another thing to find and bring in somebody who is actually better. How many "better" coaches are available right now? I don't see them. I believe the odds of State getting better with a new coach are pretty low, and the odds of State getting worse are much higher.

I find a lot of parallels in this situation to Ole Miss firing Cutcliffe. If I remember right, they did have a good year maybe 2-3 years after that (with Nutt?), but have been in decline ever since.
Coach Cutcliffe was fired the day before he was to go see a recruit named Michael Oertel to finalize his commitment to Ole Miss. Ed Orgeron followed Coach Cutcliffe and held the job for 3 seasons. His story in the areas of recruiting and regulations is quite colorful. Houston Nutt followed Ogeron.

[PackMan97]

Exactly. It's easy to look at one man's record and desire to do better ... it is quite another thing to find and bring in somebody who is actually better. How many "better" coaches are available right now? I don't see them. I believe the odds of State getting better with a new coach are pretty low, and the odds of State getting worse are much higher.

I find a lot of parallels in this situation to Ole Miss firing Cutcliffe. If I remember right, they did have a good year maybe 2-3 years after that (with Nutt?), but have been in decline ever since.

If you aren't getting better, you are getting worse.

State has struggled to sell season tickets recently, losing over 1,000 this season. At an average of $1,400 each, that's $1.4 million in lost revenue, not to mention parking, concessions, etc. Beating two FCS schools and a bunch of weak FBS schools to get bowl eligible is not going to be enough to keep State fans happy.

TOBs recruiting has been so anemic, that I think we do have a good shot at getting better maybe even a 50/50 shot....maybe more if Yow is able to land someone at the top of her list. Franklin at Vandy is doing great things and she wanted to make that move for MD before she bolted for State. I think she has a great chance at landing just who we need.

[pamtar]

Nope, you are delusional!

Really?

I'm delusional for saying that State fans have a right to expect better than mediocrity? I think it was a totally fair statement.

[Bob Green]

Really?

I'm delusional for saying that State fans have a right to expect better than mediocrity? I think it was a totally fair statement.

I was just playing around and should have included a couple of smiley faces: :) :)

[Olympic Fan]

TO'b .. Goldsmith ... and who was the 3d?

Actually, Goldsmith was NOT one of the three finalists. Butters contacted him early and he used the Duke interest to renegoiate a better deal with Rice.

Duke came down to Tom O'Brien, Jimmye Laycock (the successful head coach at William & Mary) and John Gutekunst, the former Duke star who was a renowned defensive coordinator. I know Gutekunst really, REALLY wanted the job. The other two were turned down before O'Brien got the job offer.

After he turned them down, Duke was in trouble. Butters was waiting on a small college coach in Ohio to finish his playoff run before setting up an interview, but before Youngstown State was eliminated and Jim Tressell became available, Goldsmith had a change of heart, called up Butters and said he was still interested. Considering that the was the national coach of the year in 1993, he seemed like a good pickup at the time. He actually did very well his first year 8-4 (and just a couple of plays from 10-2), but ran into trouble holding onto his staff. He had a great staff to start with, but they were so good --and Duke was so bad about conmpensating assistants at the time -- that within two years, the good ones were gone and Duke was struggling.

[sagegrouse]

He actually did very well his first year 8-4 (and just a couple of plays from 10-2), but ran into trouble holding onto his staff. He had a great staff to start with, but they were so good --and Duke was so bad about conmpensating assistants at the time -- that within two years, the good ones were gone and Duke was struggling.

Goldsmith's top assistants, who had also been with him (and won) at Rice, all left for much better-paying jobs. Duke just shrugged ... and then lost ... every year afterwards.

sagegrouse

[ForkFondler]

If you aren't getting better, you are getting worse.

State has struggled to sell season tickets recently, losing over 1,000 this season. At an average of $1,400 each, that's $1.4 million in lost revenue, not to mention parking, concessions, etc. Beating two FCS schools and a bunch of weak FBS schools to get bowl eligible is not going to be enough to keep State fans happy.

TOBs recruiting has been so anemic, that I think we do have a good shot at getting better maybe even a 50/50 shot....maybe more if Yow is able to land someone at the top of her list. Franklin at Vandy is doing great things and she wanted to make that move for MD before she bolted for State. I think she has a great chance at landing just who we need.

$1400 each? Really?

[pamtar]

I was just playing around and should have included a couple of smiley faces: :) :)

Haha, no worries. Internet sarcasm can be hard to pull off sometimes. :)

In all honesty, I was actually starting to question my sanity! Guess it doesn't take much! ;)

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Goldsmith's top assistants, who had also been with him (and won) at Rice, all left for much better-paying jobs. Duke just shrugged ... and then lost ... every year afterwards.

sagegrouse

One could argue that most of Goldsmith's success was attributable to his coordinators, who each were only at Duke for that one year - Mike Heimerdinger (who died last year of cancer in his late 50s) went on to be a successful coordinator in the NFL, and Craig Bohl left us for Nebraska and eventually became a defensive coordinator there before becoming a small college head coach. Bohl was a Nebraska alum so it likely would have taken a lot of money to keep him, though he did go from being a coordinator at Duke to a position coach there.

[Reilly]

... Duke came down to Tom O'Brien, Jimmye Laycock (the successful head coach at William & Mary) and John Gutekunst, the former Duke star who was a renowned defensive coordinator. ....

Thanks for the information.

So was Laycock actually interviewing with Duke and seeking the job, or just on Duke's list?

It seems odd to me that Laycock would have been pursuing the Duke job in late 1993, given he had accepted the BC job in 1990 ... but then had a change of heart and turned BC down (which lead to BC hiring Tom Coughlin).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/01/AR2009090103525.html

Always interesting to play the "what if" game -- Laycock just concluded a 2-9 season at W&M; Coughlin has two SBowl rings as a head coach ... what if Jimmye had kept his "yes" to BC?

[PackMan97]

$1400 each? Really?

I don't know where that number came from, other than Yow's presser. I pay that much for season tickets, but that's because I have 4 of them :)

Just checked up on it, $294/ticket I think I may have not caught all of the quote...unless it includes Luxury box revenue?

[jimsumner]

Two years ago Maryland fired the 2010 ACC Coach of the Year after an 8-4 season because they weren't content with mediocrity and they wanted to put fannies in the seats.

How'd that work out?

It's easier to go down from 7-5 than it is to go up.

[Olympic Fan]

Good suggestion, Jim

Ralph Friedgen is available!

Yow has worked with him in the past ... and he's won big at times ... he's the only Maryland coach to take the Terps to a major bowl since Tatum left in the early 50s.

Edit: Oops, I forgot Jerry Claiborne got them in the Cotton Bowl in 1976 when the Cotton was one of the big four bowls.

[sagegrouse]

Good suggestion, Jim

Ralph Friedgen is available!

Yow has worked with him in the past ... and he's won big at times ... he's the only Maryland coach to take the Terps to a major bowl since Tatum left in the early 50s.

Edit: Oops, I forgot Jerry Claiborne got them in the Cotton Bowl in 1976 when the Cotton was one of the big four bowls.

I thought the Bobby Ross teams went to major bowls when winning the ACC, but they played in Aloha, Sun, Citrus and Cherry(?).

sage

[oldnavy]

I can understand the move, but I feel bad for TOB. I think he is a good, honest man, plus he is a Marine and I have a special place in my heart for Marines and Sailors....

I wish him the best of luck, and I hope NCSU gets a coach that has wins every game except when they play Duke!

[mkline09]

Two years ago Maryland fired the 2010 ACC Coach of the Year after an 8-4 season because they weren't content with mediocrity and they wanted to put fannies in the seats.

How'd that work out?

It's easier to go down from 7-5 than it is to go up.

Wasn't it Yow that did the firing, can't recall off the top of my head.

[jimsumner]

Wasn't it Yow that did the firing, can't recall off the top of my head.

No. Yow was at State by then. Kevin Anderson was the UMD AD.

[tommy]

Looks like State has decided to hire Northern Illinois coach Dave Doeren as its new Head Football Coach. NIU has won the last two MAC championships under Doeren, and by beating Kent State the other night, Northern Illinois is actually in the running for a BCS bowl berth.

[FerryFor50]

Looks like State has decided to hire Northern Illinois coach Dave Doeren as its new Head Football Coach. NIU has won the last two MAC championships under Doeren, and by beating Kent State the other night, Northern Illinois is actually in the running for a BCS bowl berth.

So last night's game was the NC State Bowl?

[moonpie23]

debbie should have broken the bank to get steve logan...

excellent coach and it would have galvanized the fanbase...

[jimsumner]

Any time a school higher on the food chain hires a successful coach from a school lower on the food chain, it looks good. On paper.

And sometimes, it turns out to be a good hire. Think of Jim Grobe. Or Dick Sheridan.

But not always. Remember Mark Duffner? Absolutely dominated at Holy Cross. Went to Maryland, looked like a great hire. Went splat and got fired a few years later.

So, who knows?

But it certainly isn't the wow! hire I expected when O'Brien was axed.

[Newton_14]

Any time a school higher on the food chain hires a successful coach from a school lower on the food chain, it looks good. On paper.

And sometimes, it turns out to be a good hire. Think of Jim Grobe. Or Dick Sheridan.

But not always. Remember Mark Duffner? Absolutely dominated at Holy Cross. Went to Maryland, looked like a great hire. Went splat and got fired a few years later.

So, who knows?

But it certainly isn't the wow! hire I expected when O'Brien was axed.

Jim, do you think State looked at Logan at all? I know he has stated he is done, but the lure to coach is a strong pull for most of these guys. I always thought he was a good college coach.

[jimsumner]

Jim, do you think State looked at Logan at all? I know he has stated he is done, but the lure to coach is a strong pull for most of these guys. I always thought he was a good college coach.

I never heard Logan's name mentioned.

I thought Dykes was the guy.

Not sure what happened.

Keep in mind that there are higher-profile jobs than State available.

[Newton_14]

I never heard Logan's name mentioned.

I thought Dykes was the guy.

Not sure what happened.

Keep in mind that there are higher-profile jobs than State available.

Mark Thomas stated yesterday that he felt it was going to be Dykes as well. The higher profile jobs being available hurt them for sure. Yow is taking a gamble here. Time will tell I guess. Definitely not a noise making hire.

[OldPhiKap]

I never heard Logan's name mentioned.

I thought Dykes was the guy.

Not sure what happened.

Keep in mind that there are higher-profile jobs than State available.

I would bet that the Texas job opens up after they lose to Kansas State in the next few hours.

[pamtar]

Anyone who has followed state football over the last twenty years would vomit at the idea of Steve Logan being their head coach. Not saying he isn't a great coach, and would probably do a great job, but no. Just no.

[moonpie23]

Anyone who has followed state football over the last twenty years would vomit at the idea of Steve Logan being their head coach. Not saying he isn't a great coach, and would probably do a great job, but no. Just no.

well, i'm a Gamecock, and trust me, I hated Spurrier.........umm...that is until he was OUR Spurrier......

i'm a heat fan, and....well, i HATED ray ray.....that is to say.....until he was OUR ray ray...

[chris13]

Maybe Gary Williams called Dykes

[YmoBeThere]

Any time a school higher on the food chain hires a successful coach from a school lower on the food chain, it looks good. On paper.

And sometimes, it turns out to be a good hire. Think of Jim Grobe. Or Dick Sheridan.

But not always. Remember Mark Duffner? Absolutely dominated at Holy Cross. Went to Maryland, looked like a great hire. Went splat and got fired a few years later.

So, who knows?

But it certainly isn't the wow! hire I expected when O'Brien was axed.

Or Brian Kelly...Grand Valley State to Central Michigan to Cincinnati to the BCS title game.

[PackMan97]

I never heard Logan's name mentioned.

I thought Dykes was the guy.

Not sure what happened.

Keep in mind that there are higher-profile jobs than State available.

I believe the media ran with the Dykes idea (smokescreen maybe?), but my gut says Doeren was the #1 all along. Apparently he was interviewed on Monday and has been in from the very beggining. Our four targets appear to have been Dykes, Morris (Clemson OC), Doeren and Hazzel (Kent St).

He fits the mold perfectly...the part I'm excited the most about is that he was the DC at WI for five years. As much as I loved Dykes and the though of the Air Raid offense coming to Raleigh, I was worried we'd be losing game 70-73 :) as Dykes has never shown much interest in D.

Best of all...Doeren's wardrobe is already red :)


Illinois after two straight championship seasons to take over at North Carolina State.
N.C. State announced Doeren's hiring Saturday - less than 24 hours after he guided the 19th-ranked Huskies to their second consecutive Mid-American Conference championship, and just six days after firing Tom O'Brien.

Doeren claimed a MAC title both years he was at NIU and is 23-4 since taking over the Huskies with a 17-1 record in conference play.

...

Doeren came to Northern Illinois in December 2010 after five seasons as Wisconsin's defensive coordinator. He replaced Jerry Kill at NIU and led the Huskies to an 11-win season in 2011 that was capped by a MAC title and a win over Arkansas State in the GoDaddy.com Bowl.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/12/01/nc-state-hires-dave-doeren-northern-illinois.ap/index.html#ixzz2DtGMBO2t

[Jarhead]

On Friday I was talking with a friend who is a State alum. He told me that Dave Doeren of Northern Illinois is the choice for NC State Head Coach. I expected to see it somewhere in the media yesterday, but the first reliable confirmation for me was at the breakfast table this morning. Front page of the News and Observer. (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/) I guess that I don't get around much. Looks like a good choice to me. My state friend is happy, so congratulations to Yow. Very fast decision, don't you think?

[Olympic Fan]

I think Jim's point that any time a coach steps up a level, you are taking a risk. Do you get Brian Kelly or Mark Duffner?

Doeren seems like a good risk, although I don't think he's a slam dunk.

I watched his Northern Illinois team upset Kent State Friday night in the MAC title game and they appeared to be a well coached team -- nothing uncoventional, just a solid, well-coached team.

It was their second straight MAC title ... and his 23-4 record at NIU is awfully good.

But ...

Just a small caveat. It's not like Doeren built the NIU program. Joe Novak did that, inheriting a program than was as down as Duke was when Cutcliffe got here. He endured a 1-10, 0-11 start and finally got to the point where he coachesd seven straight winning seasons, including three MAC division titles (but never won the overall title).

He ran out of gas and finished with a 2-9 season and retired. He was replaced by Jerry Kill, who quickly got the program back on tract with a 6-7 bowl season, a 7-6 bowl season and a 10-3 division championship season (lost in the title game).

THAT'S the program he handed off to Doeren (to take the Minnesota program, where he's strill struggling to get it going).

Doeren, to his credit, has taken the program where it has never been -- winning two MAC titles in his two years. But understand, he's basically doing that with Kill's players.

Is he the dynamic recruiting machine that Yow wants? I have no idea ... and I suggest, neither does Yow. It would concern me that he's been a midwestern guy all his life (except for one year as a grad assistant at Southern Cal) -- football recruiting is much more regional than basketball recruiting. He's never recruited in the South.

It will be interesting to see what kind of staff Doeren puts together. I hope he gets somebody with North Carolina recruiting roots (Ken Browning maybe?)

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I think Jim's point that any time a coach steps up a level, you are taking a risk. Do you get Brian Kelly or Mark Duffner?

Doeren seems like a good risk, although I don't think he's a slam dunk.

I watched his Northern Illinois team upset Kent State Friday night in the MAC title game and they appeared to be a well coached team -- nothing uncoventional, just a solid, well-coached team.

It was their second straight MAC title ... and his 23-4 record at NIU is awfully good.

But ...

Just a small caveat. It's not like Doeren built the NIU program. Joe Novak did that, inheriting a program than was as down as Duke was when Cutcliffe got here. He endured a 1-10, 0-11 start and finally got to the point where he coachesd seven straight winning seasons, including three MAC division titles (but never won the overall title).

He ran out of gas and finished with a 2-9 season and retired. He was replaced by Jerry Kill, who quickly got the program back on tract with a 6-7 bowl season, a 7-6 bowl season and a 10-3 division championship season (lost in the title game).

THAT'S the program he handed off to Doeren (to take the Minnesota program, where he's strill struggling to get it going).

Doeren, to his credit, has taken the program where it has never been -- winning two MAC titles in his two years. But understand, he's basically doing that with Kill's players.

Is he the dynamic recruiting machine that Yow wants? I have no idea ... and I suggest, neither does Yow. It would concern me that he's been a midwestern guy all his life (except for one year as a grad assistant at Southern Cal) -- football recruiting is much more regional than basketball recruiting. He's never recruited in the South.

It will be interesting to see what kind of staff Doeren puts together. I hope he gets somebody with North Carolina recruiting roots (Ken Browning maybe?)

Well put. I don't know how much you can tell about a coach after two years at a program that was in good shape when he arrived.Much as I think you have to give a coach 4 years so that he is primarily coaching his own recruits (unless there are extenuating circumstances), similarly, it is hard to judge a coach who is working with his predecessor's talent.

Similarly, from State's perspective, I'm concerned that he has never worked anywhere remotely close to Raleigh. Hopefully this will serve as an opportunity for Coach Cut to continue the great job he's done of improving recruiting in the area. One would have thought that Doeren would be a better fit for the Purdue opening - a program at a similar place in the pecking order as State, but right in the middle of his geographic comfort zone.

[PackMan97]

One would have thought that Doeren would be a better fit for the Purdue opening - a program at a similar place in the pecking order as State, but right in the middle of his geographic comfort zone.

In the presser he said three other high profile schools contacted him about interviews and he declined saying he didn't want to waste anyone's time after he interviewed with us on Monday. Sounds like he was our #1 pick from the start. I'd say he's 1-0 so far having won the press conference.

He may not be from the area, but that's part of why you hire a staff, to fill in where you lack.