MBB: Duke 89, Minnesota 71 Post-Game Thread

[-jk]

Nice start to the weekend.

-jk

[cptnflash]

Great win, our best performance of the year thus far IMO. Making 8 out of 10 three's helps a lot too!

[rocketeli]

Great win, our best performance of the year thus far IMO. Making 8 out of 10 three's helps a lot too!

We should play in ballrooms more often.

[Dukeblue91]

Great win and all our starters looked good.
I love Rasheed's game and can only keep saying that he will be a big star at Duke.
Awesome game by Mason on O and D and I'm so happy about his FT shooting too.
Seth put up some incredible shots that went in.
Our D looks way way better than last year and the guys seem to have fun out on the court when playing.
You can sense a huge difference in chemistry with this team vs last years team.
All around a good game by everyone not called Murphy although he did have a nice rebound in these few seconds he played.

[juise]

That Minnesota team is not nearly as mediocre as Duke made them look. Just a steady, strong performance across the board. Rest up, Dukies... the next one is going to be even tougher and the coach knows Duke well.

[devildeac]

We should play in ballrooms more often.

I just hope we are "dancing" for a long time in late March/early April;).

[moonpie23]

what time is the game tomorrow ?

[OZ]

I think Quinn's recent play has made a big difference. His defensive improvement, quickness with the ball and scoring have added another dimension to our team. It has been a while since I recall five starters in double figures.... nice balance this evening.

[delfrio]

what time is the game tomorrow ?

7pm, at least as far as I can read the incredibly ill-designed bracket on this page:
http://www.atlantis.com/promotions/battle4atlantis/battle4atlantis.aspx

[Jim3k]

That Minnesota team is not nearly as mediocre as Duke made them look. Just a steady, strong performance across the board. Rest up, Dukies... the next one is going to be even tougher and the coach knows Duke well.

We play the winner of game 3--either VCU or Memphis. Stanford lost to Mizzou by 8 so Johnny's team is in the loser's bracket.

Here's the bracket set-up: http://www.atlantis.com/promotions/battle4atlantis/battle4atlantis.aspx

[roywhite]

Coach K has his game face on for the tournament, according to several mentions from Seth Davis (Seth sounded peeved he didn't get more schmoozing from the HOF coach at a reception).

Glad to hear accounts like that. Tells me that Coach K:
hasn't lost his fire
thinks this could be a special team

[ncexnyc]

Unfortunately I was only able to watch a small portion of the game. Listened to the first half on the radio while the first football game finished up and then cooking duties kept me running back and forth between the game and the kitchen.
It's become clear to me that Quinn is the straw that stirs the drink. I'll still keep my membership to the TT fan club, but Quinn has improved quite a bit as a defender and having a PG that can push the ball and then pull-up for a 3 Pt shot makes such a difference. Loved what I saw from Ryan. He continues to play aggressively on both ends of the floor. Mason continues his drive for AA honors. Sheed is a star in the making. hopefully I'll be able to rewatch the full game at a later date.

[juise]

We play the winner of game 3--either VCU or Memphis. Stanford lost to Mizzou by 8 so Johnny's team is in the loser's bracket.

Here's the bracket set-up: http://www.atlantis.com/promotions/battle4atlantis/battle4atlantis.aspx

Thanks. I originally thought that Mizzou was on the other side of the bracket, but was confused by something an announcer said during the game.

[subzero02]

I like Sulaimon's speed... He is strong with the ball, turns the corner with great aggression.

[Olympic Fan]

7pm, at least as far as I can read the incredibly ill-designed bracket on this page:
http://www.atlantis.com/promotions/battle4atlantis/battle4atlantis.aspx

You are correct that Friday's game will be at 7 p.m. And after the disaster that was AXS TV, this one will be on NBC Sports.

But checking the bracket reminded me of something that doesn't make sense -- the first-round games Thursday are in the wrong order.

When you play back-to-back days without time off, in the interest of fairness you don't want to give one team a lot more rest than another. This tournament had two games this afternoon and two tonight. The two afternoon winners should be paired together ... with the two night games in the same bracket.

But they are not.

Missouri, which beat Stanford in Game 1 of the event, will face the Louisville/Northern Iowa winner, which doesn't play until 9:30 p.m. -- the last game of the first round. That's really unfair to Louisville (which I assume will beat NIU). Missouri will have eight and a half more hours rest between games. That is significant.

It really doesn't impact Duke that much since the Duke-Minnesota game is followed by the Memphis-VCU game at 7 p.m. They ARE playing back to back and the difference in rest berween their first and their second games is minimal. I understand that it's set for TV (although I don't understand why Duke-Minnesota didn't qualify as a prime time game -- Duke's higher rated than Memphis and Minnesota is higher rated than VCU).

Still, if Duke was in Louisville's position, I'd be really upset.

[mgtr]

I worry that Seth's problem may worsen, and we lose him for a significant stretch. I hope that doesn't happen, but he is a major part of this team.

[Kedsy]

I worry that Seth's problem may worsen, and we lose him for a significant stretch. I hope that doesn't happen, but he is a major part of this team.

It will be interesting to see what we do if Seth's out tomorrow. It doesn't seem likely that Quinn, Rasheed, and Tyler will all play 35+ minutes, so either Amile or Alex (or both) would see extended minutes in the game. There will also be a lot more pressure on our 3-point shooters to hit, and I wonder if Rasheed and Quinn can keep up their high percentages when they know they and Ryan (and possibly Tyler, I suppose) are our only outside options.

Also, the announcers said Marshall won't be back until December. I hadn't heard that. Anyone know if there's been anything official on that front?

[Class of '94]

You are correct that Friday's game will be at 7 p.m. And after the disaster that was AXS TV, this one will be on NBC Sports.

But checking the bracket reminded me of something that doesn't make sense -- the first-round games Thursday are in the wrong order.

When you play back-to-back days without time off, in the interest of fairness you don't want to give one team a lot more rest than another. This tournament had two games this afternoon and two tonight. The two afternoon winners should be paired together ... with the two night games in the same bracket.

But they are not.

Missouri, which beat Stanford in Game 1 of the event, will face the Louisville/Northern Iowa winner, which doesn't play until 9:30 p.m. -- the last game of the first round. That's really unfair to Louisville (which I assume will beat NIU). Missouri will have eight and a half more hours rest between games. That is significant.

It really doesn't impact Duke that much since the Duke-Minnesota game is followed by the Memphis-VCU game at 7 p.m. They ARE playing back to back and the difference in rest berween their first and their second games is minimal. I understand that it's set for TV (although I don't understand why Duke-Minnesota didn't qualify as a prime time game -- Duke's higher rated than Memphis and Minnesota is higher rated than VCU).

Still, if Duke was in Louisville's position, I'd be really upset.

Does anyone know what channel on Direc TV is the NBC Sports Network?

[roywhite]

Does anyone know what channel on Direc TV is the NBC Sports Network?

Recently changed, it's now at 220 on DirecTV.

[DukeDiva]

Does anyone know what channel on Direc TV is the NBC Sports Network?

Looks like channel 220 on DirecTV.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Good response to what I thought was a physical team.

[Dukeblue91]

It will be interesting to see what we do if Seth's out tomorrow. It doesn't seem likely that Quinn, Rasheed, and Tyler will all play 35+ minutes, so either Amile or Alex (or both) would see extended minutes in the game. There will also be a lot more pressure on our 3-point shooters to hit, and I wonder if Rasheed and Quinn can keep up their high percentages when they know they and Ryan (and possibly Tyler, I suppose) are our only outside options.

Also, the announcers said Marshall won't be back until December. I hadn't heard that. Anyone know if there's been anything official on that front?

Did I miss something or do you know something I have not heard?
Is Seth supposed to sit tomorrows game out?
That's a scary thought.

[roywhite]

Did I miss something or do you know something I have not heard?
Is Seth supposed to sit tomorrows game out?
That's a scary thought.

Seth played 33 minutes according to this ESPN Boxscore (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323270135)

No official word about his status for tomorrow that I know of, just concern about Seth's lower leg injury with back-to-back games and then possibly a third in a row.
I suspect they'll take a look at things tomorrow and see how he's getting along before deciding on how much he'll play in game two of the tournament.

By the way, I like Seth's game playing on a leg-and-a-half!
Very efficient.

[Newton_14]

Did I miss something or do you know something I have not heard?
Is Seth supposed to sit tomorrows game out?
That's a scary thought.

They said today that Seth has not been able to practice on the day after a game all year, and that it is possible he sits out tomorrow. It all depends on how Seth feels tomorrow. I would bet he plays but, it is certainly possible he is unable to go.

[Cameron]

Excellent shooting tonight. You won't lose many games with an 8-of-10 performance from three. Tough to overcome that kind of proficient onslaught from deep, especially for a team like Minnesota which doesn't have that type of firepower to keep up. Seth once again was brilliant from all over the place, hitting all three of his triples and mixing in a nice array of moves inside the arc. He's so improved that it's scary to consider just how high some of his point totals might be right now if it weren't for his injury and inability to consistently practice.

I thought Rasheed played even better today than he did against Gulf Coast when he scored 19 points. He finished with just 11 today, which is probably close to where his average will stand for the season, but he really looked in his element out there today, making some bold moves with the ball in his hands. The NBA three he stepped into and netted with ease late in the first half was really impressive. Very Andre Dawkins-like in terms of self-assurance to take a shot like that. Love Rasheed's confidence; enough can't be said about it. I could definitely envision Rasheed coming up with a game-saving performance in the NCAAs similar to Andre's in Houston two years ago.

As for AXS TV, I kind of liked the fresh vantage point that the network delivered.I thought the camera angles were really cool; much closer to the action than most other networks, which provided for a more intimate feel of the game. Almost like actually being there.

[killerleft]

Excellent shooting tonight. You won't lose many games with an 8-of-10 performance from three. Tough to overcome that kind of proficient onslaught from deep, especially for a team like Minnesota which doesn't have that type of firepower to keep up. Seth once again was brilliant from all over the place, hitting all three of his triples and mixing in a nice array of moves inside the arc. He's so improved that it's scary to consider just how high some of his point totals might be right now if it weren't for his injury and inability to consistently practice.

I thought Rasheed played even better today than he did against Gulf Coast when he scored 19 points. He finished with just 11 today, which is probably close to where his average will stand for the season, but he really looked in his element out there today, making some bold moves with the ball in his hands. The NBA three he stepped into and netted with ease late in the first half was really impressive. Very Andre Dawkins-like in terms of self-assurance to take a shot like that. Love Rasheed's confidence; enough can't be said about it. I could definitely envision Rasheed coming up with a game-saving performance in the NCAAs similar to Andre's in Houston two years ago.

As for AXS TV, I kind of liked the fresh vantage point that the network delivered.I thought the camera angles were really cool; much closer to the action than most other networks, which provided for a more intimate feel of the game. Almost like actually being there.

I liked the angles too, but I bet we'll only get those looks when we play in ballrooms:). That's the Fred Astaire Effect.

[Cameron]

I liked the angles too, but I bet we'll only get those looks when we play in ballrooms:). That's the Fred Astaire Effect.

Haha. Seth certainly looked like a ballet dancer tonight as he gracefully cavorted across the floor scoring from all over.

Good point, though. Didn't even think about that. Although, the camera angles at both Syracuse and Indiana over the years have been much closer to the action than usual, and I could be wrong, but I don't believe the Carrier Dome would make for a very romantic ballroom. That could just be due to the configuration of those particular buildings or something. I don't really know. Whatever the reasoning, the camera viewpoint at Indiana games seems to have returned to a more typical distance in recent years.

[subzero02]

I agree with the comment about the coverage...The camera angle utilized today was great... I felt like I was Cameron-close to the action.

[MaxAMillion]

I agree with the comment about the coverage...The camera angle utilized today was great... I felt like I was Cameron-close to the action.

I thought the same thing. I really felt close to the action. I wish every game could be shot like that.

[roywhite]

I thought the same thing. I really felt close to the action. I wish every game could be shot like that.

Doesn't hurt to have a different network provider for some games. They've got to be better than some of the Fox productions we've seen on Sunday nights and goodness knows the Worldwide Leader has it's faults (commentators who babble on, for example).

[Class of '94]

Recently changed, it's now at 220 on DirecTV.

Thanks Roywhite and DukeDiva for the answer. I was originally looking in the 600s and when I couldn't find it there I thought Direc TV dropped it.

As far as the game, I thought the team overall played well; but I am concerned about our bench only scoring 2 points and our rebounding. Ryan is trying but I'd feel better if we had more size at the 3 as opposed to utilizing a 3 guard line-up. I get while K is using this current line-up but I wish Alex could earn his way back into the starting line-up like Quinn did and bring Rasheed off the bench to add more firepower to our bench.

And on a side-note, I'd prefer to not listening to Seth Davis as a basketball commentator. I much rather see him at halftimes of March madness games making predictions that usually don't come true.

[uh_no]

I thought the same thing. I really felt close to the action. I wish every game could be shot like that.

As other have indicated, it's only because of how the court was set up...you can't get a high angle shot....contrast this to most arenas (cameron included) where there is just no space for a low angle sideline camera....unless you want to clear out the people who sit behind the scorers table

This had more to do with the arena than the broadcaster.

[cruxer]

As for AXS TV, I kind of liked the fresh vantage point that the network delivered.I thought the camera angles were really cool; much closer to the action than most other networks, which provided for a more intimate feel of the game. Almost like actually being there.

AXS TV, nee HDNET, has the legacy of being one of the first quality HD channels available to cable/satellite. They always specialized in doing reference quality HD/sound in whatever they produced and broadcast. Though the content has gone craptastic since the name change (and preceding investment by that idiot from American Idol), they likely retained the great quality of framing their sports in true 16x9 rather than the 4x3-safe crud everyone else does. I didn't get a chance to see the game, unfortunately, but I've watched sports on HDNET before and I longed for that sort of editorial decision to frame the shot around the actual action on the screen rather than leave all that empty space in the left/right sides. Oddly, even though networks like ESPN have even transitioned their SD broadcasts to a 16x9 letterbox, they still seem to frame their sports in 4x3-safe mode which zooms out far too wide when viewed in HD.

</soapbox>

-c

[chrishoke]

We are playing VCU tomorrow.

[Class of '94]

We are playing VCU tomorrow.

I don't know if anyone watched the VCU game; but Donny Marshall (the color commentator) made an interesting comment in that the game between VCU and Duke tomorrow will be a battle of contrasting styles. Marshall said it would be a team that likes to play really, really fast (I'm assuming VCU) against a team the plays slow (I'm assuming he is referring to Duke). I find that comment interesting because it appeared to me that Duke has played an uptempo style this season (especially with Quinn starting) compared to the predominant half-court offense that the 2010 team played. That said, this year's Duke can obviously play in the half-court and I think they will look to control the tempo; but when they can, they've appeared imo to look to push the ball upcourt quickly.

Am I wrong about this?

[mo.st.dukie]

As far as the game, I thought the team overall played well; but I am concerned about our bench only scoring 2 points and our rebounding. Ryan is trying but I'd feel better if we had more size at the 3 as opposed to utilizing a 3 guard line-up. I get while K is using this current line-up but I wish Alex could earn his way back into the starting line-up like Quinn did and bring Rasheed off the bench to add more firepower to our bench.
.

I'm not concerned about the bench points. Our starters are going to be scoring enough points and our bench players should fill other roles.

"We're not going to score that much from our bench; that's not what those guys have to do when they get in the game," Krzyzewski said. "It doesn't always have to be a certain way. These guys come in to make the hustle plays, rebound, defend. Do what we need to be done."

It's basically like how Zoubek, Thomas, and the Plumlees filled a non-scoring role in 2010 while Scheyer, Singler, and Smith carried the scoring. Except this year we don't have those three but we do look to have an efficient and well-rounded starting five.

I think the rebounding is just going to be a weakness that we have to try to cover up and I'm not sold on the idea that having more size at the 3 is THE answer. It may help but guys boxing out better and pursuing the ball better would help more. I love the Cook, Curry, and Sulaimon lineup as it gives us an explosive offensive group that fits well together and complements Ryan and Mason.

Amile did play some minutes at the 3 today and IMO he is the most likely candidate to see an increase in minutes as the season progresses (other than Marshall). He has the qualities that Coach K likes in a player, Thornton-like qualities. I think Duke will eventually have a solid 8 man rotation of Cook, Curry, Sulaimon, Kelly, Plumlee, Thornton, Jefferson, and Plumlee with Murphy and Hairston getting minor minutes here and there.

[timmy c]

I don't know if anyone watched the VCU game; but Donny Marshall (the color commentator) made an interesting comment in that the game between VCU and Duke tomorrow will be a battle of contrasting styles. Marshall said it would be a team that likes to play really, really fast (I'm assuming VCU) against a team the plays slow (I'm assuming he is referring to Duke). I find that comment interesting because it appeared to me that Duke has played an uptempo style this season (especially with Quinn starting) compared to the predominant half-court offense that the 2010 team played. That said, this year's Duke can obviously play in the half-court and I think they will look to control the tempo; but when they can, they've appeared imo to look to push the ball upcourt quickly.

Am I wrong about this?

VCU beat FGCU 80-57. Duke beat them 88-67. In addition, Duke's adjusted tempo is rated higher than VCU's according to Kenpom. Doesn't seem like either team is going to want to turn the game into a track meet.

[cptnflash]

We are playing VCU tomorrow.

I'm glad we got VCU, we still owe them one from the 2007 NCAA tournament.

Regarding tempo, regardless of what the "analysts" may say, Shaka Smart's teams do not play a particularly up tempo style. They've been very close to average in terms of possessions per game since he's been at VCU. Other than years when we intentionally slowed down due to personnel (2010, 2007), Duke typically plays at a faster tempo than VCU does. So far that's true this year as well - we're averaging 68.1 possessions per game according to KenPom, while VCU is averaging 66.7 (not including tonight's games). What they do a lot of year after year is take 3's and force turnovers - if we can take care of the ball and keep them off the 3-point line, we'll be in business. Should be another good test for our guys.

[tbyers11]

I don't know if anyone watched the VCU game; but Donny Marshall (the color commentator) made an interesting comment in that the game between VCU and Duke tomorrow will be a battle of contrasting styles. Marshall said it would be a team that likes to play really, really fast (I'm assuming VCU) against a team the plays slow (I'm assuming he is referring to Duke). I find that comment interesting because it appeared to me that Duke has played an uptempo style this season (especially with Quinn starting) compared to the predominant half-court offense that the 2010 team played. That said, this year's Duke can obviously play in the half-court and I think they will look to control the tempo; but when they can, they've appeared imo to look to push the ball upcourt quickly.

Am I wrong about this?

I agree that we are definitely looking to push the ball a bit more this season. You are also correct about pace from a statistical point of view. According to Pomeroy (before today's games), so far this season Duke is averaging 68.1 possessions/game while VCU was at 66.7. It's a small sample size but we can't be that slow if we are faster than the fast team :)

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Yeah, We owe VCU one

[Cameron]

AXS TV, nee HDNET, has the legacy of being one of the first quality HD channels available to cable/satellite. They always specialized in doing reference quality HD/sound in whatever they produced and broadcast. Though the content has gone craptastic since the name change (and preceding investment by that idiot from American Idol), they likely retained the great quality of framing their sports in true 16x9 rather than the 4x3-safe crud everyone else does. I didn't get a chance to see the game, unfortunately, but I've watched sports on HDNET before and I longed for that sort of editorial decision to frame the shot around the actual action on the screen rather than leave all that empty space in the left/right sides. Oddly, even though networks like ESPN have even transitioned their SD broadcasts to a 16x9 letterbox, they still seem to frame their sports in 4x3-safe mode which zooms out far too wide when viewed in HD.

</soapbox>

-c

Great info. I was watching the game with my Dad today, also a big Duke fan, and he made mention of exactly what you are referencing, commenting on how much he liked that the camera was zoned in on the action happening on the floor, rather than panning a shot of the whole side of the court the ball was on.

As I said previously, there are other venues across the country -- Syracuse, Indiana and Gonzaga off the top of my head -- that have or used to in the past feature camera angles that offer up-close vantage points. While that might not be possible in Cameron Indoor due to lack of space near the court for a low-angle sideline camera, as another poster mentioned, there is nothing stopping ESPN from zooming its cameras in a bit when broadcasting Duke games there. ESPN's camera perspective in Cameron has gotten noticeably further from the action in recent years, or at least has been inconsistent and different during certain games. Or maybe I am just imagining things. But I don't think so.

[-bdbd]

Yeah, We owe VCU one


Ditto!!

I still remember the taunting I took a few years ago from VCU alums in my office when they beat us in the NCAAT (March 15, 2007 in the first round in Buffalo I think), 79-77, at the last second - the Eric Maynor game. :mad: That team lost its final 4 games, first to the Terps at home, then to NC@ch in the Hansblah "nose job" game, then (a depleted team) lost to NCSU in the ACCT in Tampa, before losing in Buffalo to VCU.


http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=827703

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=827714

[Newton_14]

As other have indicated, it's only because of how the court was set up...you can't get a high angle shot....contrast this to most arenas (cameron included) where there is just no space for a low angle sideline camera....unless you want to clear out the people who sit behind the scorers table

This had more to do with the arena than the broadcaster.

Agree. It is a 4K seat arena with a very low ceiling above the court, and even lower over the stands. I would love to hear from the players on what it is like to play in that arena. It is like a modern version of the Maui gym. As for Axs tv, I do feel bad for the folks that don't get the channel, but for me, it was better than having the game on ESPNU. I have Dish Network, who inexplicably still does not offer ESPNU in HD which is annoying as hell. The picture quality today was awesome.

I was nervous heading into the game today, due to all the hype around Minnesota, and the line being so low, but our guys answered the call in a big way. The starting five is starting to gel. Quinn has gotten out of his early season funk and is starting to make plays in addition to running the offense well and defending well. Mason and Seth are playing like All Americans, and Rasheed is playing like a seasoned veteran. I mentioned this in the MOTM match, but I agree with Seth Davis in that Ryan Kelly needs to realize how good he can be. He and Mason can be one of the top front-lines in the country. I do think we need Marshall to help us stay big at the 5 when Mason needs a break or has to sit with foul trouble. Ryan is adequate at the 5, but we seem really small when Mason is not out there. Hopefully MP3 is ready to go soon and is able to contribute.

There were times in the 2nd half where it seemed like we could not get a stop, but I am not sure if that was poor defense by Duke, or just solid offense by Minny. The guys still look good defending the perimeter, especially compared to last year. Mason defended well on the interior, and I really wish Kelly would look to block shots more when it is a guard driving on him. I don't like him trying to take charges on the smaller guys. Like the play just before the half. Watching the replay, Ryan could have easily blocked that shot without fouling. Instead he flops and the guy gets the ol fashion 3 point play.

Seth was just awesome. Unreal. On a bum leg and still looking better than last year. I hate for him that he has this injury that apparently will linger all year. As good as he is playing right now, imagine if he were 100% healthy, able to work out and stay in tip top shape, and scrimmage with his teammates in practice? I am amazed at the chemistry the guys have given Seth only participates in walk throughs. They basically get no full speed reps with him in practice. You would never know it watching them play.

They may have to go without him tomorrow, but hopefully he can go on Saturday. (He is not ruled out tomorrow, they just said they won't know until tomorrow comes how the leg responds to today's game. So far he has been unable to practice at all on days following a game. He also wears a protective boot off the court.)

Speaking of boots, did anyone get a look at MP3's foot today to see if he was in the boot or sneakers?

[75Crazie]

I'm glad we got VCU, we still owe them one from the 2007 NCAA tournament.
Why do we "owe them one"? Do we "owe" any team that beats us the next time we play them, even 6 years later? I don't remember anything about that game that we should begrudge, we just got beat fair and square. I don't see any reason for that to play a factor this time.

[juise]

Why do we "owe them one"? Do we "owe" any team that beats us the next time we play them, even 6 years later? I don't remember anything about that game that we should begrudge, we just got beat fair and square. I don't see any reason for that to play a factor this time.

I think the "we" is more in reference to the fans perspective than the players or staff. The thing about that game was that it was embarassing (again, mostly for us fans) and the winning shot became a signature clip for that tournament. There aren't many programs that have "the last laugh" against Duke. I want a piece of the Rams.

[mapei]

Why do we "owe them one"? Do we "owe" any team that beats us the next time we play them, even 6 years later? I don't remember anything about that game that we should begrudge, we just got beat fair and square. I don't see any reason for that to play a factor this time.

I think what he is saying is that the Duke fan base would like a little retribution for that loss at the expense of the VCU fan base. Their beat ours, now ours has to beat theirs to restore order.

[Native]

Speaking of boots, did anyone get a look at MP3's foot today to see if he was in the boot or sneakers?

He was in a boot.

[Newton_14]

I think the "we" is more in reference to the fans perspective than the players or staff. The thing about that game was that it was embarassing (again, mostly for us fans) and the winning shot became a signature clip for that tournament. There aren't many programs that have "the last laugh" against Duke. I want a piece of the Rams.

That was also the game where all the Carolina homers, uh, I mean sports journalist from various Triangle media outlets, openly cheered an applauded in the media room at the Regional NCAA games going on in Winston Salem. It was said that the out of state reporters in the room were taken aback at that outburst by their "colleagues". They were all watching the coverage and the outburst came when the Duke upset was announced. One of the more non-professional acts by so called professionals I ever recall hearing about.

[subzero02]

Why do we "owe them one"? Do we "owe" any team that beats us the next time we play them, even 6 years later? I don't remember anything about that game that we should begrudge, we just got beat fair and square. I don't see any reason for that to play a factor this time.

You're joking right? Of course we owe them one. I remember the end of that game very well and am still bitter over it. The go ahead jumper over Scheyer still haunts me. Scheyer's grudge over that game likely helped propel us to the title in 2010.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-04-04/sports/sc-spt-0405-ncaa-bits--20100404_1_coach-collins-duke-jon-scheyer

" Jon Scheyer keeps a photograph of himself in a special folder that shows him exhausted, bleeding from under the eye and appearing to be on the verge of tears.

The picture of Scheyer as a Duke freshman after losing to Virginia Commonwealth in the NCAA tournament was a gift from assistant coach Chris Collins, who knows how to motivate Scheyer."

[Cameron]

Why do we "owe them one"? Do we "owe" any team that beats us the next time we play them, even 6 years later? I don't remember anything about that game that we should begrudge, we just got beat fair and square. I don't see any reason for that to play a factor this time.

I puked in a trash barrel on the curb outside of a Chili's after that game. We owe it to them.

And that's after having to sit through the entire second half in that Chili's in the presence of an insane lunatic who apparently had a big Duke chip on his shoulder and way too many beers, resulting in him staring me down and clapping his hands together with the same vigor as the Energizer Bunny each and every time VCU scored. In any other context I would have have been utterly petrified that a stranger was acknowledging me in this manner and fearful that I was about to die, but I was dressed like a Duke Christmas tree and figured that was probably the reason why.

[Newton_14]

He was in a boot.
Thanks Native. Appreciate it. Great job thus far by you and the Crazies at home games. Keep it up!


I puked in a trash barrel on the curb outside of a Chili's after that game. We owe it to them.

And that's after having to sit through the entire second half in that Chili's in the presence of an insane lunatic who apparently had a big Duke chip on his shoulder and way too many beers, resulting in him staring me down and clapping his hands together with the same vigor as the Energizer Bunny each and every time VCU scored. In any other context I would have have been utterly petrified that a stranger was acknowledging me in this manner and fearful that I was about to die, but I was dressed like a Duke Christmas tree and figured that was probably the reason why.

Cameron, man, what a missed opportunity! You should have hurled on the insane lunatic!

[Cameron]

Thanks Native. Appreciate it. Great job thus far by you and the Crazies at home games. Keep it up!



Cameron, man, what a missed opportunity! You should have hurled on the insane lunatic!

He was like 6-7 or I might have, haha. I think it might have been John Pelphrey :D

[uh_no]

We looked really good. again.

If anyone thinks we aren't one of the best teams in the country and have a really good shot at #5 in april, I think they're nuts.

Yeah, we can point out small things here and there, but on the large, this team is really really good. We have what is looking to be one of the best centers in the country who after 3 years is playing with the confidence to match his ability, opposite him is one of the biggest matchup problems in the country.....

a shooting guard who is killing it on one leg right now, a PG who is coming into his own, and a stud freshman on the wing

we play smart defense, we score the ball in a variety of ways, we rebound, we have loads of experience.....maybe we're a little thin on the bench, but that may improve with marshall coming back....


We've seen UK isn't the juggernaut of last year and is seemingly mediocre (morehead state and MD each took them to the wall)....so what team is out there that we can't beat?

crickets

Indiana and louisville seem pretty good, but are they better than we are? I don't think so.

I'll say it. I think we are the best team in the country. #1.

We have a tough stretch coming up, and we may lose one of those games. It happens. no one goes undefeated, but I don't think that will change my opinion. This team is special and I hope they realize it and the seniors are looking to go out the way they came in....by hanging a banner in the north end of cameron.

[roywhite]

We looked really good. again.

If anyone thinks we aren't one of the best teams in the country and have a really good shot at #5 in april, I think they're nuts.

Yeah, we can point out small things here and there, but on the large, this team is really really good. We have what is looking to be one of the best centers in the country who after 3 years is playing with the confidence to match his ability, opposite him is one of the biggest matchup problems in the country.....

a shooting guard who is killing it on one leg right now, a PG who is coming into his own, and a stud freshman on the wing

we play smart defense, we score the ball in a variety of ways, we rebound, we have loads of experience.....maybe we're a little thin on the bench, but that may improve with marshall coming back....


We've seen UK isn't the juggernaut of last year and is seemingly mediocre (morehead state and MD each took them to the wall)....so what team is out there that we can't beat?

crickets

Indiana and louisville seem pretty good, but are they better than we are? I don't think so.

I'll say it. I think we are the best team in the country. #1.

We have a tough stretch coming up, and we may lose one of those games. It happens. no one goes undefeated, but I don't think that will change my opinion. This team is special and I hope they realize it and the seniors are looking to go out the way they came in....by hanging a banner in the north end of cameron.

Gotta agree with most of your observations about this team....I guess I haven't quite reached your conclusions.

If we can continue this level of play through this tournament and then tOSU and Temple, I'll be convinced. Of course, even being the best team in the country doesn't guarantee a championship, but it's a good place to start.

This team is MUCH improved on defense over last year, and is remarkably cohesive for being early in the season.

[ChillinDuke]

We looked really good. again.

If anyone thinks we aren't one of the best teams in the country and have a really good shot at #5 in april, I think they're nuts.

Yeah, we can point out small things here and there, but on the large, this team is really really good. We have what is looking to be one of the best centers in the country who after 3 years is playing with the confidence to match his ability, opposite him is one of the biggest matchup problems in the country.....

a shooting guard who is killing it on one leg right now, a PG who is coming into his own, and a stud freshman on the wing

we play smart defense, we score the ball in a variety of ways, we rebound, we have loads of experience.....maybe we're a little thin on the bench, but that may improve with marshall coming back....


We've seen UK isn't the juggernaut of last year and is seemingly mediocre (morehead state and MD each took them to the wall)....so what team is out there that we can't beat?

crickets

Indiana and louisville seem pretty good, but are they better than we are? I don't think so.

I'll say it. I think we are the best team in the country. #1.

We have a tough stretch coming up, and we may lose one of those games. It happens. no one goes undefeated, but I don't think that will change my opinion. This team is special and I hope they realize it and the seniors are looking to go out the way they came in....by hanging a banner in the north end of cameron.

As much as the superstitious baseball player in me wants to keep this quiet, I have to agree with you. We look great at this point in the season.

We were never really in danger at any point in the game against the would-be #26 team in the nation. We consistently maintained/stretched our lead, never looked nervous, and played balanced, intelligent basketball.

And I don't know about the team, but that arena (ballroom) is such a weird-looking place to play basketball. The ceiling is low, and the crowd is in the dark. I wonder if that plays in at all.

- Chillin

[roywhite]

Top 5 plays from Duke Blue Planet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHWvVLsMpBg&feature=g-all-u)

Nice.

[superdave]

Good response to what I thought was a physical team.

I thought the same. Minny played us tough, overplaying at times and seeking contact a lot. That is Big 10 ball for you. Duke responded well. I thought Mason and Rasheed crashed the boards without fear. We need Ryan to do that more. He has 3, 3, 9, and 6 boards in our four games. He needs to turn all those threes into sixes, or we need to play Amile and Alex more for stretches. We ccan get out-rebounded by Minny and win, but cannot against State, OSU or Carolina. Time to address this now....

[superdave]

22 minutes. 0-0 from field. 0-0 for the line. 0 boards. 1 assist. 3 steals. 3 TOs. 4 fouls.

I'd be interested in seeing his +/- for the game. Not sure that one game matters in that regard, but it feels like we're playing stagnant offense when he is in. His three TOs indicate that. His four fouls show that he is often aggressive in the wrong situations. If he continues to play 22 minutes a game (currently averaging 24.0) our ceiling as a team will be much lower than it will be with Murphy or Jefferson playing some of those minutes.

Coach K said last year that Thornton settled the team down, was like a coach on the floor. This team does not need to be settled this year. Seth is the crafty veteran and Quinn is stepping up as our leader, with Mason potentially reaching an elite level. It's time to let the rest of the roster grow.

Super "Counterarguments?" Dave

[DukeHLM'13]

22 minutes. 0-0 from field. 0-0 for the line. 0 boards. 1 assist. 3 steals. 3 TOs. 4 fouls.

Coach K said last year that Thornton settled the team down, was like a coach on the floor. This team does not need to be settled this year. Seth is the crafty veteran and Quinn is stepping up as our leader, with Mason potentially reaching an elite level. It's time to let the rest of the roster grow.



I completely agree with this Dave. He doesn't have near the same vision that either Quinn, Seth or Rasheed bring to the floor as an assist man, and he certainly isn't the offensive threat that any of them are. He is a good defensive player, and there are situations in which I think he is important to the team, but in most games those situations aren't going to last for 20+ minutes.

I would really like to see Amile or Murphy start to get some of those minutes. When one, or both, of them start to see more significant playing time I feel like we will become a much more versatile team, and able to match up with almost anyone.

But, all that being said, I feel inclined to trust Coach K to know what he is doing.

[Dukeblue91]

22 minutes. 0-0 from field. 0-0 for the line. 0 boards. 1 assist. 3 steals. 3 TOs. 4 fouls.

I'd be interested in seeing his +/- for the game. Not sure that one game matters in that regard, but it feels like we're playing stagnant offense when he is in. His three TOs indicate that. His four fouls show that he is often aggressive in the wrong situations. If he continues to play 22 minutes a game (currently averaging 24.0) our ceiling as a team will be much lower than it will be with Murphy or Jefferson playing some of those minutes.

Coach K said last year that Thornton settled the team down, was like a coach on the floor. This team does not need to be settled this year. Seth is the crafty veteran and Quinn is stepping up as our leader, with Mason potentially reaching an elite level. It's time to let the rest of the roster grow.

Super "Counterarguments?" Dave

I'm sorry but you really can't base anything on that game in regards to fouls.
The officiating was horrendous to say it mildly.
And I'm still 100% behind TT and we will need him to go deep.
Not to mention that everyone is allowed to have a not so stellar game once in awhile and TT should not be the exception to this rule.

Trust me on this there is a reason why Coach K plays him as much as he does and it has very little to do of how much or little he likes him.

[superdave]

I completely agree with this Dave. He doesn't have near the same vision that either Quinn, Seth or Rasheed bring to the floor as an assist man, and he certainly isn't the offensive threat that any of them are. He is a good defensive player, and there are situations in which I think he is important to the team, but in most games those situations aren't going to last for 20+ minutes.

I would really like to see Amile or Murphy start to get some of those minutes. When one, or both, of them start to see more significant playing time I feel like we will become a much more versatile team, and able to match up with almost anyone.

But, all that being said, I feel inclined to trust Coach K to know what he is doing.

I trust Coach K fully as well. I also see why Coach K loves Tyler. The kid does exactly what Coach K wants from both a defensive perspective and from a leadership perspective.

But I am also troubled by our weak rebounding numbers, our small backcourt and by playing 4 on 5 on offense at times. We'll see what unfolds but I hope both Alex and Amile step up and earn some minutes, because we'll be much better with their size and athleticism.

[Kedsy]

22 minutes. 0-0 from field. 0-0 for the line. 0 boards. 1 assist. 3 steals. 3 TOs. 4 fouls.

I'd be interested in seeing his +/- for the game. Not sure that one game matters in that regard, but it feels like we're playing stagnant offense when he is in. His three TOs indicate that. His four fouls show that he is often aggressive in the wrong situations. If he continues to play 22 minutes a game (currently averaging 24.0) our ceiling as a team will be much lower than it will be with Murphy or Jefferson playing some of those minutes.

We've been having this argument for a couple months now. I wouldn't say the position you're espousing is any more (or any less) valid today than it was the day before the Minnesota game.

FWIW, I've said several times I think Tyler's optimal use would be to provide 10 to 15 minutes of defense and high energy, so I actually agree with your basic position. I just don't think one game's stat line proves the point one way or the other (or even four games, for that matter).

[superdave]

I'm sorry but you really can't base anything on that game in regards to fouls.
The officiating was horrendous to say it mildly.
And I'm still 100% behind TT and we will need him to go deep.
Not to mention that everyone is allowed to have a not so stellar game once in awhile and TT should not be the exception to this rule.

Trust me on this there is a reason why Coach K plays him as much as he does and it has very little to do of how much or little he likes him.

I'm not basing my opinion of Tyler on one game. I'm including a lot of history here (38% FGs this year, 35% last year and 2.8 TOs per game this year) to say that I dont think he's beneficial to our offense. I'm also making the argument that we need more rebounding help because as Mark Titus so eloquently said Ryan Kelly is the "tallest shooting guard in the country." So far this year we were outrebounded by GS by 1, even with UK, outrebounded by FGCU by 1, and -3 vs. Minny. That's -5 on the season. I'm comfortable enough with our maturity as a team, with the strength of our perimeter with Quinn and Seth, and worried enough about rebounding to cut Tyler's minutes in half and suffer through some mistakes by Amile and Alex in order to see them improve by spring so we can be a better team.

It's a tradeoff, and I think it makes a lot of sense. Give up some of the toughness and help side D from Tyler to get bigger and hit the boards, and to be less stagnant on D.

[superdave]

We've been having this argument for a couple months now. I wouldn't say the position you're espousing is any more (or any less) valid today than it was the day before the Minnesota game.

FWIW, I've said several times I think Tyler's optimal use would be to provide 10 to 15 minutes of defense and high energy, so I actually agree with your basic position. I just don't think one game's stat line proves the point one way or the other (or even four games, for that matter).

What do you think of our lack of rebounding? Ryan is averaging 5.3 in 30 minutes. We're basically a one-man rebounding team.

Also, what do you think about how our offense runs with Tyler in? I do not think his passing is very crisp and I also think he's too inclined to pull the ball out and reset rather than attack the defense.

I like Tyler and I know our opponents despise his peskiness and trash talking, but I think going bigger is worth the tradeoff.

[Kedsy]

What do you think of our lack of rebounding? Ryan is averaging 5.3 in 30 minutes. We're basically a one-man rebounding team.

I think a team that plays "classic" Duke defense is often at a rebounding disadvantage. Look at the totals in 2001 (we outrebounded our opponents by only 1 per game), 1991 (a bit more than 2 per game), 1994 (less than 1 per game), 2004 (about 2.3 per game), 1990 (2 per game), and several other successful seasons.


Also, what do you think about how our offense runs with Tyler in?

I think our offense looks rather stagnant when Tyler is in it. I have said so many times. So I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion. I'm saying if the argument wasn't settled a week ago it's no more settled now.