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View Full Version : Nantz on Dean - 1991 Duke/UNLV



VaDukie
08-12-2007, 11:52 PM
I'm watching a tape of the Duke-UNLV game, and Nantz is discussing the upcoming halftime report on Smith's ejection from the earlier game. He says:

"I really feel bad for Dean Smith. I thought he was shown up at the end of that game. Although the replays gonna show he was out of the coaches box. Too ticky tack technicals on the legend and he was thrown out at the end of that game"

Does anyone else remember this? Did the media drool over Smith that openly? I was 11 when Dean retired so my memories on him are thankfully very small.

cspan37421
08-13-2007, 12:25 AM
I'll be watching that one again soon. The issue was touched upon briefly in the Final against Kansas. I think they showed an extra long piece of bright tape applied to the floor (near each bench) so the coaches knew where they could not cross.

Over the years, there seems to be no consistency at all with respect to staying on the sideline in the coach's "box". Sometimes, esp. during a regular season game, a coach is a step or two on the floor itself, when action is at the other end. Far and away more than going a step too far toward the centerline. Nothing is usually called.

My SWAG is that Smith had probably ridden the refs throughout and, given his stature in the history of the game, they felt they needed something undeniable to point to, to justify tossing him with a second T.

I think Lute Olson would get the same fawning media treatment. K would probably too, if he would allow for some grey hair so that his appearance would be more consistent with that of a long-time legendary, distinguished, older coach.

tommy
08-13-2007, 12:37 AM
I'll be watching that one again soon. The issue was touched upon briefly in the Final against Kansas. I think they showed an extra long piece of bright tape applied to the floor (near each bench) so the coaches knew where they could not cross.

Over the years, there seems to be no consistency at all with respect to staying on the sideline in the coach's "box". Sometimes, esp. during a regular season game, a coach is a step or two on the floor itself, when action is at the other end. Far and away more than going a step too far toward the centerline. Nothing is usually called.

My SWAG is that Smith had probably ridden the refs throughout and, given his stature in the history of the game, they felt they needed something undeniable to point to, to justify tossing him with a second T.

I think Lute Olson would get the same fawning media treatment. K would probably too, if he would allow for some grey hair so that his appearance would be more consistent with that of a long-time legendary, distinguished, older coach.

"Allow for?" What might you be suggesting?

1Dukie
08-13-2007, 11:05 AM
Yeah I remeber that. But what was that about some of the unc players going after the officials in the tunnel/locker room and the police going after the players??????? Funny you never hear about that. :confused: UNC=Thuggish program!!!!!

I'm so glad we upset UNLV and then beat Kansas.

3rdgenDukie
08-13-2007, 11:33 AM
Guthridge dressed down the officials in the tunnel after the game. Also, after Dean got tossed, he spent a good 5-10 slowly walking down the Kansas bench and congratulating each player and shaking their hands. Prima Donna.

oso diablo
08-13-2007, 11:51 AM
"Hey Pete, how much time do I have? Hey Pete, how much time do I have?"

That's what i remember. Smith asking that question to ref Pete Pavia in a very sarcastic tone, after one of the Tar Heels had fouled out. Must have repeated it 5 or 6 times, as i recall.

bill brill
08-13-2007, 12:44 PM
as luck would have it, I was the lone media member present in the room after the tunnel when the carolina team left the floor after the loss to kansas. bill guthridge completely lost his cool and shouted at pete pavia, who had called the second T on dean. guthridge doesn't swear and I can't recall if he did then, but he was screaming about how pavia had treated the greatest coach in the country. dean knew what he was doing. he obviously knew he had one technical. I'd bet he never thought a second T for being out of the box would be called that late in the game, with the outcome decided. I've been told by two people seated behind the unc bench that dean was baiting pavia throughout, and especially after the first technical, which I'm not sure who called. I can't vouch for that authenticity. sadly, pavia died from cancer quite a few years ago.

captmojo
08-13-2007, 12:45 PM
I guess this is just what we do in the off-season. I've been re-exploring the '86 season lately. I just finished the tournament title game. What a war!
Was that the only time Smith was ejected? Anyway, the holes should hang a banner.

Johnboy
08-13-2007, 06:08 PM
My recollection is that the coach's box was either a recent invention at that time, or that it was a point of emphasis. I remember being both surprised and very satisfied that El-Deano got caught and the refs didn't let him get away with it - he was clearly baiting Pavia when he got called. The greatest thing about that night is that I was in a room full of Tar Heel fans watching Duke win in a huge upset and Carolina lose.

DU82
08-13-2007, 06:33 PM
Best part about being there was saying "Ahhhh, See Ya!" to St. Dean.

He was clearly out of the box. That was a point of emphasis at that time, because of other incidents with coaches in previous seasons. The way it was explained to me by a couple of refs, if you're coaching (giving instructions to your team) the refs would give you some leeway, if you're baiting them, no such luck.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-31-2015, 09:16 AM
Thought I might bump this thread back to the top, as it must also be the anniversary of this occasion. Since we have the thread on Duke/UNLV, I figured we might reflect on how very close we were to the Apocalyptic Final of All Finals.

And Dean went and blew it. Roy v. Deano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZk25TdOkoc


Funny, in my memory, Dean swung this game with his ejection. Upon watching the replay, the game was pretty well in hand before he was tossed with 36 seconds to go and down 5 with Kansas at the line. Also, I have to admit, Dean took this rather graciously. I can't imagine any coach today getting kicked from the last minute of a Final Four game and shrugging his shoulders and shaking hands with the other coach.

Indoor66
03-31-2015, 09:23 AM
Upon watching the replay, the game was pretty well in hand before he was tossed with 36 seconds to go and down 5 with Kansas at the line. Also, I have to admit, Dean took this rather graciously. I can't imagine any coach today getting kicked from the last minute of a Final Four game and shrugging his shoulders and shaking hands with the other coach.

I don't think Dean wanted to be there at the end! Kinda like Roy in Tallahassee - let the "scrubs" do it.

freshmanjs
03-31-2015, 09:28 AM
Still looks like a totally ridiculous T at the end. Can't believe they threw him out.

superdave
03-31-2015, 09:32 AM
as luck would have it, I was the lone media member present in the room after the tunnel when the carolina team left the floor after the loss to kansas. bill guthridge completely lost his cool and shouted at pete pavia, who had called the second T on dean. guthridge doesn't swear and I can't recall if he did then, but he was screaming about how pavia had treated the greatest coach in the country. dean knew what he was doing. he obviously knew he had one technical. I'd bet he never thought a second T for being out of the box would be called that late in the game, with the outcome decided. I've been told by two people seated behind the unc bench that dean was baiting pavia throughout, and especially after the first technical, which I'm not sure who called. I can't vouch for that authenticity. sadly, pavia died from cancer quite a few years ago.

Guthridge was way off base. At the time of that game, Bob Knight was the greatest coach in the country and one year later Mike Krzyzewski would be. Dean never was.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
03-31-2015, 09:48 AM
Has Coach K ever been ejected from a game? I can't remember an instance like this. In fact I don't think he has even generated a technical foul this year. For all the yelling and talking to the refs he does, he must be really good at finding where the line is and never crossing it. Of course I guess it helps when you are coaching a fun team and you haven't lost too many games.

budwom
03-31-2015, 09:53 AM
"Hey Pete, how much time do I have? Hey Pete, how much time do I have?"

That's what i remember. Smith asking that question to ref Pete Pavia in a very sarcastic tone, after one of the Tar Heels had fouled out. Must have repeated it 5 or 6 times, as i recall.

Good recollection. While I remember that much of the media reacted with shock and woe at El Deano's ejection, one writer (was he from the NY Post?) wrote a very good article
about how Dean had been sarcastically going after Pavia unrelentingly....and eventually Pavia had enough. His opinion was that the ejection was richly deserved.

OldPhiKap
03-31-2015, 11:00 AM
Has Coach K ever been ejected from a game? I can't remember an instance like this. In fact I don't think he has even generated a technical foul this year. For all the yelling and talking to the refs he does, he must be really good at finding where the line is and never crossing it. Of course I guess it helps when you are coaching a fun team and you haven't lost too many games.

In the early days, K got tossed a fair number of times. Hard to think of one recently though.

Eakane
03-31-2015, 11:23 AM
That game was not over. UNC down by 5, with 2 KU free throws coming, and 35 seconds left. That's a tall order, but far from impossible. Think Walter Davis, or Jay Williams vs. Maryland, or Tyus Jones this year against Carolina. The crusher of that T wasn't just the two extra FTs, it was the change of possession.

I bleed Duke Blue, but Dean's treatment in that moment was abysmal.

Henderson
03-31-2015, 11:24 AM
In the early days, K got tossed a fair number of times. Hard to think of one recently though.

Christian Laettner was once ejected for being outside the coach's box at Kentucky. But at least he cleaned his room before hand.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSMl7VFfT8E

rthomas
03-31-2015, 11:43 AM
Guthridge was way off base. At the time of that game, Bob Knight was the greatest coach in the country and one year later Mike Krzyzewski would be. Dean never was.

Bob Knight was NEVER the greatest coach. period.

WillJ
03-31-2015, 12:02 PM
Whatever you thought of the CJ Fair call when Syracuse played at Duke last year, I can't imagine a coach being more ejection-worthy than Jim Boeheim was. And yet Dick Vitale went on at some length about how he shouldn't have been ejected.

Indoor66
03-31-2015, 03:10 PM
Whatever you thought of the CJ Fair call when Syracuse played at Duke last year, I can't imagine a coach being more ejection-worthy than Jim Boeheim was. And yet Dick Vitale went on at some length about how he shouldn't have been ejected.

Does anyone give Dickie's opinion any value any more?

Tripping William
03-31-2015, 03:15 PM
Does anyone give Dickie's opinion any value any more?

You mean other than Ashley Judd?

Bluedog
03-31-2015, 03:15 PM
Has Coach K ever been ejected from a game? I can't remember an instance like this. In fact I don't think he has even generated a technical foul this year. For all the yelling and talking to the refs he does, he must be really good at finding where the line is and never crossing it. Of course I guess it helps when you are coaching a fun team and you haven't lost too many games.

Coach K did get called for a technical for throwing a pen toward's his own bench last year...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/coach-k-technical-foul-shameful-204230792--ncaab.html

turnandburn55
03-31-2015, 03:46 PM
And his pen promptly got its own twitter account. Hilarious!

https://twitter.com/coachk_pen

Newton_14
03-31-2015, 03:51 PM
In the early days, K got tossed a fair number of times. Hard to think of one recently though.

Are you sure OPK? I mean I trust your memory and all, but I was sitting here trying to recall K ever being tossed from a game and nothing is coming to mind. Lots of technical? Yes, for sure. But I don't recall any rejections. Do you remember which years and which games?

Newton_14
03-31-2015, 03:54 PM
as luck would have it, I was the lone media member present in the room after the tunnel when the carolina team left the floor after the loss to kansas. bill guthridge completely lost his cool and shouted at pete pavia, who had called the second T on dean. guthridge doesn't swear and I can't recall if he did then, but he was screaming about how pavia had treated the greatest coach in the country. dean knew what he was doing. he obviously knew he had one technical. I'd bet he never thought a second T for being out of the box would be called that late in the game, with the outcome decided. I've been told by two people seated behind the unc bench that dean was baiting pavia throughout, and especially after the first technical, which I'm not sure who called. I can't vouch for that authenticity. sadly, pavia died from cancer quite a few years ago.


Guthridge was way off base. At the time of that game, Bob Knight was the greatest coach in the country and one year later Mike Krzyzewski would be. Dean never was.

rip bill brill. seeing that post from bill was both saddening and heart warming. one of the greats, and the one man no one would dare chastise for always using lowercase for every letter. he is missed.

Indoor66
03-31-2015, 04:10 PM
rip bill brill. seeing that post from bill was both saddening and heart warming. one of the greats, and the one man no one would dare chastise for always using lowercase for every letter. he is missed.

I am certain that Brill was a huge e. e. cummings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings) fan. :D:cool:

alteran
03-31-2015, 04:12 PM
I'm watching a tape of the Duke-UNLV game, and Nantz is discussing the upcoming halftime report on Smith's ejection from the earlier game. He says:

"I really feel bad for Dean Smith. I thought he was shown up at the end of that game. Although the replays gonna show he was out of the coaches box. Too ticky tack technicals on the legend and he was thrown out at the end of that game"

Does anyone else remember this? Did the media drool over Smith that openly? I was 11 when Dean retired so my memories on him are thankfully very small.

I have never cared for Dean Smith. He accomplished a lot and was certainly beloved by his players, but he was also a petty man and particularly petty toward Duke and its fans.

But I always thought his ejection in that game was a joke.

DU82
03-31-2015, 07:14 PM
In the early days, K got tossed a fair number of times. Hard to think of one recently though.

Tossed, no. I do not remember a single instance that Coach K was ejected from a game. However, there's plenty of T's earlier in his career. Tossing his pen was a recent one, I remember Coach getting a T early in the game at Notre Dame for saying to Frank Scagliotta (I think I have his name right): "What about the moving screen?", which on the replay was blatant. After the T, the broadcasters (CBS?) showed Coach and it was easy to lip read. (-jk was at the game, 2/15/87, he may remember more. Or not.) Had to be one of the few T's he got without any Army words.

The closest that I remember Coach ever got to being ejected was against Arizona in the late '80s/early '90s (in Cameron, checking the guide, the game had to be 2/25/90.) I don't recall the specific call/non-call at the end of the half, but Coach had to be restrained from going after the refs.

Henderson
03-31-2015, 07:15 PM
Are you sure OPK? I mean I trust your memory and all, but I was sitting here trying to recall K ever being tossed from a game and nothing is coming to mind. Lots of technical? Yes, for sure. But I don't recall any rejections. Do you remember which years and which games?

I'm with DU82. I don't believe K has ever been tossed.

Olympic Fan
03-31-2015, 07:15 PM
In the early days, K got tossed a fair number of times. Hard to think of one recently though.

K has never been ejected from a game since he's been at Duke (don't know about at Army).

In his early days, he did pick up a lot of T's, but never two in one game.

Dean was ejected three times in his career -- the Final Four game with Kansas and twice against Clemson.

The Final Four ejection was kind of cheap -- technically correct, but not the kind of thing that usually gets called in that situation. Pavia knew he was dying and was given a bunch of plum jobs that spring. He used the opportunity to eject coaches in the Big East championship game, the NIT championship game and the Final Four.

hurleyfor3
03-31-2015, 07:44 PM
The closest that I remember Coach ever got to being ejected was against Arizona in the late '80s/early '90s (in Cameron, checking the guide, the game had to be 2/25/90.) I don't recall the specific call/non-call at the end of the half, but Coach had to be restrained from going after the refs.

Home against Arizona in 1990. I was there. The following home game was against unc, and then as now, K met with the campers a couple days before in Cameron. Someone asked about the T.

It came at the end of the first half. Coach had been complaining about the officiating most of the half, and said his last comment before heading into the locker room was, "That sucks". A few seconds later, while K was heading towards the locker room and the ref had taken a few steps towards their locker room, the ref turned around and T'd him up.

Coach ran back and got right in the ref's face. He turned livid, never seen his face that red before or since. Somehow, he didn't get a second one. (I believe that was the last year coaches were ejected on three T's, rather than two.) What K said to us students is that the ref never gave him a warning such as "That's enough" or "OK, no more" as is custom and that the ref waited so long before pulling the trigger without direct provocation.

We were down about a dozen at halftime plus the T free throws to start the second half; I recall 1 of 2 was made. We came back to win.

I was at an ACC Tournament game in Greensboro when he got T'd up, either 2004 or 06. I also recall a T against Arkansas in the fall of 1990 in the preseason Nit at Madison Square Garden (wasn't there).

RaiderDevil
03-31-2015, 07:46 PM
Tossed, no. I do not remember a single instance that Coach K was ejected from a game. However, there's plenty of T's earlier in his career. Tossing his pen was a recent one, I remember Coach getting a T early in the game at Notre Dame for saying to Frank Scagliotta (I think I have his name right): "What about the moving screen?", which on the replay was blatant. After the T, the broadcasters (CBS?) showed Coach and it was easy to lip read. (-jk was at the game, 2/15/87, he may remember more. Or not.) Had to be one of the few T's he got without any Army words.

The closest that I remember Coach ever got to being ejected was against Arizona in the late '80s/early '90s (in Cameron, checking the guide, the game had to be 2/25/90.) I don't recall the specific call/non-call at the end of the half, but Coach had to be restrained from going after the refs.

I was at that game sitting almost by his family, and I thought his daughter was going to go attack the refs. Most heated scene I've ever seen in Cameron.

I read somewhere that Pavia knew he had cancer and was going to die soon. Whoever it was said that's why he made the call, for 15 minutes of fame.

OZ
03-31-2015, 07:54 PM
I read somewhere that Pavia knew he had cancer and was going to die soon. Whoever it was said that's why he made the call, for 15 minutes of fame.

By 1991, Pavia had been suffering from cancer for several years. He had already lost a kidney and a lung. He would die about a year after the 1991 game. I don't think that tossing Dean Smith (for "fame") was utmost on his mind.

Indoor66
03-31-2015, 08:51 PM
By 1991, Pavia had been suffering from cancer for several years. He had already lost a kidney and a lung. He would die about a year after the 1991 game. I don't think that tossing Dean Smith (for "fame") was utmost on his mind.

Dean had certain, shall we say, mannerisms that would piss off the good humor man. I can relate to Pavia on that toss.

OldPhiKap
03-31-2015, 08:58 PM
Are you sure OPK? I mean I trust your memory and all, but I was sitting here trying to recall K ever being tossed from a game and nothing is coming to mind. Lots of technical? Yes, for sure. But I don't recall any rejections. Do you remember which years and which games?

I was at Duke '84-'88. Wanna say it happened several times. Not sure where stats are on that. As y'all remember, those were the days when a lot of games were not televised (and when they were, it was Dean or Valvano or Lefty or Holland or Cremins whose games were on).

Don't remember specific games, memories kinda hazy. But they're my memories. So I hold them closely.

Did I ever tell you about the time I met Elvis? Different story . . . .

devildeac
03-31-2015, 09:33 PM
I was at Duke '84-'88. Wanna say it happened several times. Not sure where stats are on that. As y'all remember, those were the days when a lot of games were not televised (and when they were, it was Dean or Valvano or Lefty or Holland or Cremins whose games were on).

Don't remember specific games, memories kinda hazy. But they're my memories. So I hold them closely.

Did I ever tell you about the time I met Elvis? Different story . . . .

Elvis posts here. That doesn't count:p.

Henderson
03-31-2015, 09:48 PM
I was at Duke '84-'88.

*******

Don't remember specific games, memories kinda hazy.

Ah, those college days.... I have the same problem, but we're talking about months, not games.

hurleyfor3
03-31-2015, 10:16 PM
Ah, those college days.... I have the same problem, but we're talking about months, not games.

Hell if I can recite the Navier-Stokes equation, but boy do I remember the basketball.

theschwartz
04-01-2015, 04:28 AM
Dean had certain, shall we say, mannerisms that would piss off the good humor man. I can relate to Pavia on that toss.

This got me thinking, what if Dean was mocking Pavia's cancer and impending demise? Depending on Dean's tone and how he emphasized his words, the subtext of his question might have been "How much time do I have [to live]?" Or maybe Pavia heard it as "How much time do you have?" A little morbid and probably nothing but baseless speculation, but maybe that explains the quick hook there. Then again, can't imagine Dean doing something so cruel.

Sigh. 86 more hours til tip-off.