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FerryFor50
11-19-2012, 10:23 PM
Georgetown takes out UCLA in Shabazz Muhammad's first game.

Shabazz scored 15. Tony Parker didn't play.

Reisen
11-19-2012, 10:33 PM
Nice for me as a Hoya grad. I wonder if Georgetown is legit this year. I might have to go to a few games...

ncexnyc
11-19-2012, 10:42 PM
Georgetown takes out UCLA in Shabazz Muhammad's first game.

Shabazz scored 15. Tony Parker didn't play.
Did TP make it to the game or was he still in line at the buffet?

juise
11-19-2012, 10:53 PM
Georgetown takes out UCLA in Shabazz Muhammad's first game.

Shabazz scored 15. Tony Parker didn't play.

I was also interested in this one to se not only how Parker would do against real competition, but also to see how Tyler Adams was coming along. I didn't realize that he was not playing this year (he was listed on the roster in the pre-season). I wish both players the best, but am not yet feeling heartbreak about missing out on these "true" post players yet.

sporthenry
11-19-2012, 10:57 PM
I was also interested in this one to se not only how Parker would do against real competition, but also to see how Tyler Adams was coming along. I didn't realize that he was not playing this year (he was listed on the roster in the pre-season). I wish both players the best, but am not yet feeling heartbreak about missing out on these "true" post players yet.

Yeah, I looked this up to see how they would do against each other. TP is behind the Wear twins and Tyler Adams has a heart issue and has sat out since December of last year. It is looking like he might not play college basketball again.

But this shows why Duke will probably need to bring in an experienced JuCo or Grad transfer next year b/c freshmen aren't reliable.

Edouble
11-19-2012, 10:57 PM
I was also interested in this one to se not only how Parker would do against real competition, but also to see how Tyler Adams was coming along. I didn't realize that he was not playing this year (he was listed on the roster in the pre-season). I wish both players the best, but am not yet feeling heartbreak about missing out on these "true" post players yet.

Yes, I am fine with letting someone else "not develop" them.

Coballs
11-19-2012, 11:05 PM
Did TP make it to the game or was he still in line at the buffet?

No, he's still at the podium in the Miller Grove H.S. gymnasium announcing that he's committing to UCLA.

DBFAN
11-19-2012, 11:16 PM
No, he's still at the podium in the Miller Grove H.S. gymnasium announcing that he's committing to UCLA.

Ha ha ha that just made my day so funny

dcdevil2009
11-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Yeah, I looked this up to see how they would do against each other. TP is behind the Wear twins and Tyler Adams has a heart issue and has sat out since December of last year. It is looking like he might not play college basketball again.

But this shows why Duke will probably need to bring in an experienced JuCo or Grad transfer next year b/c freshmen aren't reliable.

Both Parker and Adams have been as reliable as their rankings suggest. Granted Adams had a medical issue, but he was far from a sure thing before that. As to Parker, how many mid-20s recruits come in and contribute at an all-conference level in their freshman year? I'd much rather trust K to find a system to fit talent than recruit a big because that's the way it's always been done. Give me a top 20 guard over a top 50 big every day.

Philadukie
11-19-2012, 11:34 PM
I think UCLA will be one of the most interesting story lines this year.

Obviously a lot is riding on this year for Howland and the program. Expectations are high. If this freshman class doesn't gel and the losses begin to add up early, things could get ugly.

Perhaps I was imagining it, but I thought we were already beginning to see the cracks tonight -- subpar defense, visible frustration among players, poor body language, and general lack of chemistry. Tony Parker looked flat out miserable on the bench.

Speaking of Parker, it will be interesting to see what happens to him if this season goes awry. Bazz, Anderson, and Adams will likely be gone in the draft. Howland will likely be fired. But the Wears and Smith will still be around. Parker could be stuck low on the depth chart of an uncompetitive team with a coach he didn't plan on playing for. One could certainly imagine a transfer in a situation like that. And after all that pomp and circumstance...

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

sporthenry
11-19-2012, 11:46 PM
Both Parker and Adams have been as reliable as their rankings suggest. Granted Adams had a medical issue, but he was far from a sure thing before that. As to Parker, how many mid-20s recruits come in and contribute at an all-conference level in their freshman year? I'd much rather trust K to find a system to fit talent than recruit a big because that's the way it's always been done. Give me a top 20 guard over a top 50 big every day.

Wasn't expecting TP to light the world on fire but expected him to at least play 10-15 minutes/game. Odds are if Duke gets a big next year, it will be even lower ranked than TP and I think we can all agree we need some depth next year. This isn't the usual we need a back to the basket big, this is the we need a body to absorb 15 minutes.

I agree guards translate much better and K has a better track record with guards but they will someone not on this roster to play some meaningful minutes and depending upon Marshall's development, perhaps more than a few minutes.

sporthenry
11-19-2012, 11:47 PM
I think UCLA will be one of the most interesting story lines this year.

Obviously a lot is riding on this year for Howland and the program. Expectations are high. If this freshman class doesn't gel and the losses begin to add up early, things could get ugly.

Perhaps I was imagining it, but I thought we were already beginning to see the cracks tonight -- subpar defense, visible frustration among players, poor body language, and general lack of chemistry. Tony Parker looked flat out miserable on the bench.

Speaking of Parker, it will be interesting to see what happens to him if this season goes awry. Bazz, Anderson, and Adams will likely be gone in the draft. Howland will likely be fired. But the Wears and Smith will still be around. Parker could be stuck low on the depth chart of an uncompetitive team with a coach he didn't plan on playing for. One could certainly imagine a transfer in a situation like that. And after all that pomp and circumstance...

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I wonder if he has seen the Duke games or perhaps we should send him some tapes of our big shooting 77.4% averaging 21.7 and 8.7.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-19-2012, 11:51 PM
I think UCLA will be one of the most interesting story lines this year.

Obviously a lot is riding on this year for Howland and the program. Expectations are high. If this freshman class doesn't gel and the losses begin to add up early, things could get ugly.

Perhaps I was imagining it, but I thought we were already beginning to see the cracks tonight -- subpar defense, visible frustration among players, poor body language, and general lack of chemistry. Tony Parker looked flat out miserable on the bench.

Speaking of Parker, it will be interesting to see what happens to him if this season goes awry. Bazz, Anderson, and Adams will likely be gone in the draft. Howland will likely be fired. But the Wears and Smith will still be around. Parker could be stuck low on the depth chart of an uncompetitive team with a coach he didn't plan on playing for. One could certainly imagine a transfer in a situation like that. And after all that pomp and circumstance...

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I predict another televised "decision" from Parker in the spring during which he ironically announces he is taking his talents back east... to unc. ;)

J4Kop99
11-20-2012, 12:33 AM
Wasn't Duke interested in Josh Smith when he was in HS? I wonder what he would look like if he chose Duke instead.

FerryFor50
11-20-2012, 08:40 AM
Parker's predicament was a bit... predictable.

He went to UCLA thinking he'd be guaranteed playing time because he followed Bazz and Anderson. But now, he's seeing that you have to earn PT regardless of where you go.

On a side note, Larry Drew is actually playing decently at UCLA. Had 8 assists to 1 turnover against G'town.

Billy Dat
11-20-2012, 08:51 AM
UCLA is going to be a work in progress for a while. Last night, they looked exactly like what they are, a team with tons of young talent and lesser-talented, more seasoned vets, playing together for the first time (meaning with Shabazz).

I was actually the most impressed with Kyle Anderson. His pace may make it seem like he is playing lazy, but I was taken with his poise and his skill for his size. Shabazz was really pressing, but still had double figures. I think he'll figure it out pretty quick and be a real problem (to contend with) by the end of the year. Adams is also really tough.

It was weird seeing the Wears and Drew II. They don't look like they have gotten much better.

I know Ben Howland has been at UCLA since 2003, but it seems like he's been there for less time for some reason. I'll always think of him as a conservative coach whose no-stars, defensive minded teams were his trademark. Since he's been in LA, he's lured an amazing array of talent but it doesn't seem to suit his style. Since the golden age of Farmar, Afflalo, Collison, Westbrook, Love, UCLA has gone a bit off the rails, in terms of wins and losses and their standards. It will be interesting to see how this group shapes up because the talent is there.

As for Georgetown, they are also young, but more seasoned than UCLA and they play hard and much more together than UCLA at this stage. Should be a good year for them.

johnb
11-20-2012, 09:21 AM
We may have exhausted this topic without my having noticed, but, after reading the following article about how the NCAA made a witch hunt out of Shabazz's recruitment, I'll be rooting for him. BTW, I'm a little surprised more hasn't been made out of Duke's role in all this...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/opinion/nocera-race-and-the-ncaa.html?_r=0

Billy Dat
11-20-2012, 09:32 AM
One fun college basketball history note about the game, and also one that proved Dickie V has very little interest in anyone not picked to the McDonalds team or a preseason All America team...

They showed Pat Ewing sitting courtside, supporting the Hoyas. The camera angle allowed us to see the guy sitting next to him, none other than Ralph Dalton, his back-up center on those great Georgetown teams. Dalton used to own/operate a copy shop right on 7th Avenue near Madison Square Garden. My office used to be right around the corner and many was the time, when Patrick was injured, you'd walk by the shop and see Patrick hanging with Ralph, pre-game, before Ralph closed up shop and they headed for the Garden. It's nice to see that they are still friends.

I swore Dickie V would have identified Dalton, but he was too busy talking.

dukelion
11-20-2012, 09:33 AM
Parker's predicament was a bit... predictable.

He went to UCLA thinking he'd be guaranteed playing time because he followed Bazz and Anderson. But now, he's seeing that you have to earn PT regardless of where you go.

Completely agree.

Parker's bigger problem is that the Wear twins and Smith are all Juniors and won't be making the jump to the nba next year.

This has transfer written all over it.

Billy Dat
11-20-2012, 09:53 AM
Did TP make it to the game or was he still in line at the buffet?


Wasn't Duke interested in Josh Smith when he was in HS? I wonder what he would look like if he chose Duke instead.

J4Kop99 - was your post hinting at Smith's weight? If not, it should. That kid is huge, like Stanley Roberts/Oliver Miller/Tractor Traylor obese. Parker looks like Serge Zwikker next to him. Based on what I saw from UCLA's frontline, Parker should be killing himself in practice to get on the floor. It's not like he's trying to crack a Gasol/ZBo/Gay frontline.

dukedoc
11-20-2012, 10:58 AM
I truly wish Tony the best. He bears the brunt of our exasperation, but truth be told, it's unlikely that any of his recruitment particularities were solely the product of his own will. His long-winded announcement presser, for instance, was a consequence of the fact that his basketball prowess was intertwined with the hopes of his family and his local community for his basketball future. That's a lot of pressure for a 17 year old, or however old he was at the time. He is well loved in his home community, so it was not surprising that it took a long time to get through his presser.

The in-home write up that ESPN did during his recruitment was illuminating regarding the high hopes his family has for his future. Riding the pine, albeit as a freshman, can't be easy for anyone to stomach after such fanfare. Some of it was his own doing, no doubt, but we shouldn't be too hard on him. Most teens evolve their self concept in these regards from the feedback they get extrinsically -- during his recruitment he undoubtedly heard an abundance of such praise and comparisons to NBA superstars from coaches and fans alike. Many of us on this board in fact were also proclaiming him to be the next such-and-such.

I hope he is given time and space to develop over time and that he makes his parents and community proud in the future.

TruBlu
11-20-2012, 11:19 AM
We may have exhausted this topic without my having noticed, but, after reading the following article about how the NCAA made a witch hunt out of Shabazz's recruitment, I'll be rooting for him. BTW, I'm a little surprised more hasn't been made out of Duke's role in all this...

While watching the UCLA game last night, I noticed that one of the announcers stated that "Bazz got in trouble for accepting money for his trips to Duke and UNC" . . . without stating that the money did NOT come from Duke or UNC. To a casual/uninformed listener, it may have appeared that Duke and UNC were involved.

BD80
11-20-2012, 11:56 AM
... TP is behind the Wear twins ...


... the Wears ... don't look like they have gotten much better. ...

Pretty sad

ChicagoCrazy84
11-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Completely agree.

Parker's bigger problem is that the Wear twins and Smith are all Juniors and won't be making the jump to the nba next year.

This has transfer written all over it.


I agree. The Wear's have not developed into the players everyone thought they would be and Josh Smith is still coming along. I would also doubt that both Shabazz and Kyle Anderson would be one and dones. With everyone around next year, I don't know if TP could take another year playing backup.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-20-2012, 12:32 PM
And is anyone as impressed with Otto Porter as I was? The guy does everything. Big East POY?

ChillinDuke
11-20-2012, 12:43 PM
I agree. The Wear's have not developed into the players everyone thought they would be and Josh Smith is still coming along. I would also doubt that both Shabazz and Kyle Anderson would be one and dones. With everyone around next year, I don't know if TP could take another year playing backup.

No disagreements on Wears, Smith, or TP.

Shabazz is pretty much as sure a one-and-done as you can be. He's currently projected as the #1 pick on Draftexpress, #6 on CBSSports (Jeff Goodman), and #3 on ESPN. He just dropped 15 in his first college game in only 25 mins on 50% from the floor against Georgetown.

So it's really just a question of Anderson, who at this point is projected at #19, #28, and #27, respectively. So based on the mock drafts, he may indeed stay. However, in just under 30mpg (only 4 games) he's averaging 5.5ppg, 9.0rpg, 3.5apg, 1.5spg, and even a half a block per. Problem is only 24% from the field. If that % comes up, he becomes the definition of a stat stuffer.

- Chillin

Edit - Gotta imagine the assists will come up too now with Shabazz.

Starter
11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
I hated everything about the Parker recruitment. Whether accurate or not, my perception from here was that Krzyzewski was throwing himself at Parker, who simply didn't reciprocate his interest but never let him off the hook. It reminded me of when a desperate guy keeps asking out a girl who doesn't really like him but keeps stringing him along by letting him think he has a chance. Krzyzewski doesn't need to be like that, ever. I don't care who the kid is. Then I saw Parker play in person last winter, and I was blown away by how not blown away I was by his game. (Same for McGary, by the way, he was lousy when I saw him relative to his at-that-time Top 5 overall ranking in his class.) In terms of wishing the best, I mean, I certainly don't wish ill on anyone. I'm just glad he didn't come to Duke because I don't really think he's that good, a problem compounded by his overinflated sense of his own abilities and value. He can certainly round into a solid player, but given our dearth of quality post prospects in recent years, the expectations would have been through the roof, so I'm not sure he would have had the benefit of patience from the fan base.

Billy Dat
11-20-2012, 12:47 PM
I would also doubt that both Shabazz and Kyle Anderson would be one and dones. With everyone around next year, I don't know if TP could take another year playing backup.

I think its too early to call on this. Unless Shabazz completely sucks, which I can't see considering he put up 15 last night without having a clue what he was doing, I think he's gone because everyone already has him pegged as a pro. Even if he isn't great this year, he'd be better off coming out because teams will see him as an undervalued asset. I suspect Anderson will be in the same boat. If the goal is to be drafted as high as possible, they will both leave after this year, much as McRoberts should have left Duke after his freshman year.

Starter
11-20-2012, 12:52 PM
There ain't no way Shabazz is still in Westwood next year. Like with Austin Rivers, I'm sure going pro after one season is simply part of his plan. Don't forget that he can't possibly be in optimum shape yet, given that he's had a shoulder injury that sidelined him for a month. I was surprised he was even ready to play last night. Maybe he wasn't. Anyway, he's almost certain to round into a very good player as the season goes on.

Anderson, who knows? I can see him coming back to be The Man on this team given that Shabazz will be that this year. His game isn't really that of a scorer, he's a unique player who facilitates for others and can rebound given his size. I love him. It can go either way there, in terms of whether he leaves after one season. I'd lean towards him staying another year.

NSDukeFan
11-20-2012, 04:26 PM
I agree. The Wear's have not developed into the players everyone thought they would be and Josh Smith is still coming along. I would also doubt that both Shabazz and Kyle Anderson would be one and dones. With everyone around next year, I don't know if TP could take another year playing backup.

Are you suggesting there is some place else where all big men don't develop rapidly into stars?

Turtleboy
11-20-2012, 04:42 PM
We may have exhausted this topic without my having noticed, but, after reading the following article about how the NCAA made a witch hunt out of Shabazz's recruitment, I'll be rooting for him. BTW, I'm a little surprised more hasn't been made out of Duke's role in all this...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/opinion/nocera-race-and-the-ncaa.html?_r=0What was Duke's role?

Lord Ash
11-20-2012, 05:11 PM
Duke had no role, other than Bazz visited and someone else paid for it. Not really connected to Duke.

Newton_14
11-20-2012, 07:35 PM
Duke had no role, other than Bazz visited and someone else paid for it. Not really connected to Duke.

Agree, and contrary to some of the opinion out there, neither Duke nor UNC reported the issue to the NCAA. In fact it was the other way around. The NCAA contacted Duke and UNC and let them know non-family members paid for the trips.

Trying to spin that into "Duke's involvement" or that Duke or UNC for that matter played some type of role, is just that, spin.

MChambers
11-20-2012, 07:36 PM
Are you suggesting there is some place else where all big men don't develop rapidly into stars?
I'd say Josh Smith is rapidly developing into a star. In fact, he may have his own gravitational field. He's enormous.

MCFinARL
11-20-2012, 08:07 PM
One fun college basketball history note about the game, and also one that proved Dickie V has very little interest in anyone not picked to the McDonalds team or a preseason All America team...

They showed Pat Ewing sitting courtside, supporting the Hoyas. The camera angle allowed us to see the guy sitting next to him, none other than Ralph Dalton, his back-up center on those great Georgetown teams. Dalton used to own/operate a copy shop right on 7th Avenue near Madison Square Garden. My office used to be right around the corner and many was the time, when Patrick was injured, you'd walk by the shop and see Patrick hanging with Ralph, pre-game, before Ralph closed up shop and they headed for the Garden. It's nice to see that they are still friends.

I swore Dickie V would have identified Dalton, but he was too busy talking.

Thank you SO much! Having followed Georgetown some, living in the DC area, I saw Dalton, recognized the face, but could not call up the name. I like your story also.

FerryFor50
11-20-2012, 09:39 PM
TP got 3 minutes today. Picked up 2 fouls, 0 points, 0 rebounds. But the best news is... 0 turnovers!

sporthenry
11-20-2012, 09:48 PM
TP got 3 minutes today. Picked up 2 fouls, 0 points, 0 rebounds. But the best news is... 0 turnovers!

A 4 point win against a pretty bad Georgia team. Indiana isn't that dominant. We already know what UK brings. Of all recent years, can't think of a year with any less of a dominant #1 team.

Perhaps I should be more excited for this year and maybe it has shades of 2010 as we await our (hopeful) #1 recruit in Jabari and we can sneak into the tourney as an underrated top 10 team and come out on top. Hopefully it is too early to jinx Duke though.

Turtleboy
11-21-2012, 06:55 AM
Agree, and contrary to some of the opinion out there, neither Duke nor UNC reported the issue to the NCAA. In fact it was the other way around. The NCAA contacted Duke and UNC and let them know non-family members paid for the trips.

Trying to spin that into "Duke's involvement" or that Duke or UNC for that matter played some type of role, is just that, spin.So johnb's apparent assertion that Duke had a significant role in the "witch hunt" is baseless?