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View Full Version : MBB: Oklahoma State 76, NC State 56



westwall
11-18-2012, 08:02 PM
Oklahoma St is leading 46 to 31 early in the 2nd. Leslie has already fouled out and Howell has 3.

CameronBornAndBred
11-18-2012, 08:39 PM
Ouch..by 20. Better now than March.

Dukeblue91
11-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Wow I did not see that one coming.

ChillinDuke
11-18-2012, 10:23 PM
Wow I did not see that one coming.

I think many others here did. I certainly did. Not referring to OK State in particular, just that they'd get beat by a bunch of reasonably talented teams.

Their #6 ranking was based on a tiny sample size in the NCAAT. They were basically a bubble team...over a much larger sample size: a season.

All that considered, #6 is kinda ridiculous. Top-20 mayhaps. #6 no.

Similarly, Kentucky probably shouldn't have been #3 either.

- Chillin

roywhite
11-18-2012, 10:28 PM
Seems like Pack fans had gotten ahead of themselves. Losing by 20 may be a reality check.

Curious to see how the team and coaches react.

sporthenry
11-18-2012, 10:33 PM
I think many others here did. I certainly did. Not referring to OK State in particular, just that they'd get beat by a bunch of reasonably talented teams.

Their #6 ranking was based on a tiny sample size in the NCAAT. They were basically a bubble team...over a much larger sample size: a season.

All that considered, #6 is kinda ridiculous. Top-20 mayhaps. #6 no.

Similarly, Kentucky probably shouldn't have been #3 either.

- Chillin

Well Preseason rankings are more based on what people project them to be, not what they are now. Or else teams like Butler and other MM returning starting lineups would riddle the top 25. Usually young teams show growth at the end of season like NC State did, then they added some top talent and you would expect them to be good. 6 was perhaps too high but top 15 to top 10 seems about right with a lot of growing pains.

One thing that struck me as concerning for them is that they only went about 6 deep (according to ESPN so it may be wrong) for the whole first half. They don't seem to have much depth and when you get Leslie in foul trouble and Wood on a cold night, they look like an upset waiting to happen. Of course they can grow a lot by March but Brown with 7 turnovers still seems out of control but Purvis and Warren seem as advertised.

JNort
11-19-2012, 03:09 AM
They were basically a bubble team...

- Chillin

One little nitpick but they got into the tournament fairly comfortable. They may have been the last team announced but they were an 11 seed which put them ahead of 20-23 other teams.

devilsadvocate85
11-19-2012, 06:59 AM
One little nitpick but they got into the tournament fairly comfortable. They may have been the last team announced but they were an 11 seed which put them ahead of 20-23 other teams.

State was one of, if not the lowest seeded at-large teams. The teams they were seeded ahead of were automatic qualifiers from weaker conferences.

ChillinDuke
11-19-2012, 03:01 PM
Well Preseason rankings are more based on what people project them to be, not what they are now. Or else teams like Butler and other MM returning starting lineups would riddle the top 25. Usually young teams show growth at the end of season like NC State did, then they added some top talent and you would expect them to be good. 6 was perhaps too high but top 15 to top 10 seems about right with a lot of growing pains.

One thing that struck me as concerning for them is that they only went about 6 deep (according to ESPN so it may be wrong) for the whole first half. They don't seem to have much depth and when you get Leslie in foul trouble and Wood on a cold night, they look like an upset waiting to happen. Of course they can grow a lot by March but Brown with 7 turnovers still seems out of control but Purvis and Warren seem as advertised.

I see what you're saying. I think we're basically saying the same thing: NC State looks much more like a top 15-20 team than a #6 team. However, that was my projection as well as my current evaluation after a week+ of the season. Ever ranking them at #6 seemed ridiculous to me.

Consider this: if NC State for whatever reason was the Va Tech of last year's Tourney and was the odd man out on the bubble, regardless of how they would have hypothetically fared in the NIT, even if they won it, do you think they would have been ranked #6 pre-season?

Again, I think not. And I don't see a substantial difference between what they actually did last season and my hypothetical. I guess it's all a moot point since they lost by 20.

- Chillin

CameronBornAndBred
11-19-2012, 03:10 PM
Dropped to 16 (and 15). Eek. Expected, but eek!:eek:

hurleyfor3
11-19-2012, 03:28 PM
Did I see that UConn needed triple overtime to beat Quinnipiac or someone like that? That might have even been Saturday. Would rather not look it up because that might count as "caring about uconn basketball", but then they might be in the ACC tomorrow. In any event it's not the most auspicious start for the Kevin Ollie Era.

jay
11-19-2012, 03:32 PM
Did I see that UConn needed triple overtime to beat Quinnipiac or someone like that? That might have even been Saturday. Would rather not look it up because that might count as "caring about uconn basketball", but then they might be in the ACC tomorrow. In any event it's not the most auspicious start for the Kevin Ollie Era.

2OT, won by 6. I was following it on my phone rooting for the Bobcats to pull out an early season upset.

Kedsy
11-19-2012, 03:40 PM
One little nitpick but they got into the tournament fairly comfortable. They may have been the last team announced but they were an 11 seed which put them ahead of 20-23 other teams.

All but four of the teams seeded 12 through 16 won their conference tournaments and thus were automatic qualifiers. Only BYU, Iona, Cal, & South Fla were at-large teams seeded lower than NC State, so I'm not sure I'd describe State's bid as "fairly comfortable."

davekay1971
11-19-2012, 04:22 PM
I think many others here did. I certainly did. Not referring to OK State in particular, just that they'd get beat by a bunch of reasonably talented teams.

Their #6 ranking was based on a tiny sample size in the NCAAT. They were basically a bubble team...over a much larger sample size: a season.

All that considered, #6 is kinda ridiculous. Top-20 mayhaps. #6 no.

Similarly, Kentucky probably shouldn't have been #3 either.

- Chillin

We're seeing that preseason rankings are largely based on the last 10 or so games of the preceding year and the math of incoming vs outgoing talent. State was definitely a bubble team but had a nice tourney run and brought in great talent. Thus the lofty ranking. Last night just showed that talented freshmen are still freshmen and generally need experienced leaders; that when the experience plays like crap, even great freshmen can't overcome it; that CJ Leslie is still capable of turning in a stinker; and that melding talented freshmen with established stars ain't easy.

Good early season beat down to make State remember they have to earn it, especially when you're now the hunted. If Gottfried and his veterans handle it well, this game will be a big part of any late season/postseason success they have.

sporthenry
11-19-2012, 04:32 PM
We're seeing that preseason rankings are largely based on the last 10 or so games of the preceding year and the math of incoming vs outgoing talent. State was definitely a bubble team but had a nice tourney run and brought in great talent. Thus the lofty ranking. Last night just showed that talented freshmen are still freshmen and generally need experienced leaders; that when the experience plays like crap, even great freshmen can't overcome it; that CJ Leslie is still capable of turning in a stinker; and that melding talented freshmen with established stars ain't easy.

Good early season beat down to make State remember they have to earn it, especially when you're now the hunted. If Gottfried and his veterans handle it well, this game will be a big part of any late season/postseason success they have.

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with Preseason rankings as long as you know how they are created and realize they don't mean too much. Luckily, rankings mean a lot less in college b-ball than football. And last year, they did pretty good with the Preseason top 10. UNC started off #1 and finished #4, UK started #2 and finished #1, OSU started at #3 and finished #7, Syracuse started at #5 and finished at #2, Duke started at 6 and finished at 6. Vanderbilt, Florida, Louisville, Memphis and Pitt started in the top 10 and finished outside but I'd say 50% is still fairly impressive especially with 300+ teams in D1.