MBB: Duke 75, Kentucky 68 Post-Game Thread

[KYtotheCore]

Well, that went about like I predicted. Impressed with our (UK's) freshman, especially Poythress, but tip my hat to Duke. They executed a good game plan, got some nice, close range baskets, and UK's unfamiliarity with each other showed, by contrast, to Duke's experience together. Not sure why Cal was unhappy with WCS, I think he and Noel in together could have caused some havoc. Hopefully this becomes a series (if not already signed). Congrats to Duke on a good game. Hopefully we can meet again later in the season.

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[COYS]

Well, that went about like I predicted. Impressed with our (UK's) freshman, especially Poythress, but tip my hat to Duke. They executed a good game plan, got some nice, close range baskets, and UK's unfamiliarity with each other showed, by contrast, to Duke's experience together. Not sure why Cal was unhappy with WCS, I think he and Noel in together could have caused some havoc. Hopefully this becomes a series (if not already signed). Congrats to Duke on a good game. Hopefully we can meet again later in the season.

Thanks for the gracious post. We enjoyed having you over here. Until next time!

[mapleleafdevil]

Great work. But 3 reb for Mason...how is that possible?

[Billy Dat]

Great win!

[cbnaylor]

Pleased with the outcome obviously. Would have liked to seen more of Murphy and Jefferson. I thought Mason was brought in a little too earlier which had Mason play timid defense which rubbed off on the team. Other than that. Great win for our program and proud. As they say, on to the next one.

[Dukehky]

Great work. But 3 reb for Mason...how is that possible?

I thought it was some kind of mis-print... Really really good early season win. Especially considering the foul trouble with Mason and Ryan.

[sporthenry]

Great work. But 3 reb for Mason...how is that possible?

B/c he was busy boxing out Nerlens while Sheed and others picked up rebounds.

[moonpie23]

couple of really good plays at the end of the game on OFF and DEF to seal it........good win...


gonna head over to catsPause to see what's up....

[COYS]

This was a game we lose last year, plain and simple. The defense and rebounding were excellent, despite the staff deciding for the strategy of putting Rasheed on Poythress for the bulk of the game. He got some good O-boards and scored, but our defense on everyone else was mostly superb.

People will complain about not putting Alex or Amile on Poythress, but I think it was a gamble that worked. Seth, Rasheed, and Quinn were playing well on offense, together, and the defense was still really good. There might be games where Rasheed is overmatched and it hurts the team, overall, but I'm not sure that Amile or Alex would've brought enough rebounding and offense to compensate for losing Rasheed or Seth for large stretches of the game.

[DukieInBrasil]

glad to see our boys got the moxie to win against a good team, and that they held on enough even though Kentucky had some serious momentum going there towards the end.
Seth had a solid presence for our team there at the end, and we needed all of it. Mason had a nice game offensively, good passing too. Kelly's game was marred by poor shot selection. Despite starting ice cold, Sulaimon nailed those 3 3s in a row, that really provided the difference in the game.
Solid win vs a solid team. Onwards and upwards!

[sporthenry]

I'd agree with Coach K that Josh was the unsung hero of the game. Those 2 baskets with Mason out helped extend the lead and he did the little things. Tough to vote him Man of the Match but I just might have to.

[uh_no]

Pleased with the outcome obviously. Would have liked to seen more of Murphy and Jefferson. I thought Mason was brought in a little too earlier which had Mason play timid defense which rubbed off on the team. Other than that. Great win for our program and proud. As they say, on to the next one.

that was your first impression of this game?

we beat the #3 team in the country with its load of super freshman showing great poise and amazing play from seth and mason, and you're questioning why our freshman didn't get more play?

seemed like K's game plan worked brilliantly tonight....to me at least....

[NSDukeFan]

Mason may have only had 3 rebounds, but I don't think I have ever seen him play better offensively. Actually, I am quite sure I haven't. He was a monster inside and kept the team in it when nobody else was going early on. Then, Curry got going, then Ryan and Rasheed and the team was golden. I am very excited about a very nice early season win. Basketball season is back.

[sporthenry]

People will complain about not putting Alex or Amile on Poythress, but I think it was a gamble that worked. Seth, Rasheed, and Quinn were playing well on offense, together, and the defense was still really good. There might be games where Rasheed is overmatched and it hurts the team, overall, but I'm not sure that Amile or Alex would've brought enough rebounding and offense to compensate for losing Rasheed or Seth for large stretches of the game.

My biggest gripe was when he took out Sheed and put in TT on Poythress. I would have put Amile on Poythress during that stretch but K has always shown trust in TT.

[CoachJ10]

* Good team defense tonight. Other then some breakdowns on the pick and roll late, we didn't let them get in a flow on offense.

* Very aggressive and mature game by Mason (ex. the 4th foul).

* Rasheed is a smooth operator. He will score a lot of points during his tenure (now he just needs to learn to box out).

* MVP of tonight...Seth Curry. NOW that is called playing strong with the ball and with confidence. Great game #30.

[burnspbesq]

Kelly's defense on Wiltjer was key. If he gets going, it's a very different game.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Great win for the team, not just confidence but also, thinking big picture, potential seeding down the road as UK maybe a team we are going head-to-head against by the selection committee. It could be the difference between a 1 vs 2, or 2 vs 3 for instance.

Nice to see Alex in the game and involved, excited and active even on the sideline. We'll need him or Amile to be consistent contributors come conference time.

I just don't think the 3 guard lineup will work long-term but we'll see.

[NSDukeFan]

My biggest gripe was when he took out Sheed and put in TT on Poythress. I would have put Amile on Poythress during that stretch but K has always shown trust in TT.

I thought he should have drawn at least one offensive foul, though he was overmatched.

[jlear]

This is a fun team to watch. Summer work paid off with improved play and confidence from our seniors. Intensity was great, and still lots of improvement and growth as a team to come.

This is going to be a fun year!

[cbnaylor]

that was your first impression of this game?

we beat the #3 team in the country with its load of super freshman showing great poise and amazing play from seth and mason, and you're questioning why our freshman didn't get more play?

seemed like K's game plan worked brilliantly tonight....to me at least....

I thought my post would have been clear. I didn't mean for quality playing time. I would have liked to seen them match up with Poythress.

[Dukehky]

that was your first impression of this game?

we beat the #3 team in the country with its load of super freshman showing great poise and amazing play from seth and mason, and you're questioning why our freshman didn't get more play?

seemed like K's game plan worked brilliantly tonight....to me at least....

I agree in some respects. Remember, their starting point guard wasn't even there tonight. I don't believe Harrow to be very good but others have spoken very highly of him that are far more knowledgeable about Harrow's abilities than I. Goodwin being able to play off the ball the whole game brings a whole different aspect to this game. It was a very good win, not to take anything away from Duke. I did not think we would win this game just based on their freakish athleticism. I underrated our experience being such a key factor, and that's all my fault.

Kentucky, especially without Harrow (evidently), should not have been the number 3 team in the country.

Noel was solid tonight, but he is no Anthony Davis and I feel like a lot of people billed him as such. AD's don't come along very often.

[Buzzy Duke]

Agreed. I really like this team. I agree on the thought process of putting Amile or Murphy on Poythress but not sure if it would have made a huge difference and you lose the offensive fire power. Regardless, the team won and that is all that matters. I believe both Amile and Murphy will be big contributors this year. I am really excited about this team and its depth.

[superdave]

Nice win for the older more experienced Blue Devils. You could see the savvy of our seniors on play after play. They knew where to be, how to push the UK kids and all the nuances of out-crafting a younger term. That's very gratifying to see.

I thought Josh deserved some kudos for his energy in the first half and for his defense in the second half. We probably lose too much momentum if not for his two stickbacks.

Sulaimon was at the center of our run that put us a few buckets ahead. He played beyond his years tonight. I thought Quinn looked great at times as well.

I, like others, want to see more of Alex and Amile, but I'll take the win and hope they grow a lot through the holiday season.

Super "GTHK" Dave

[Kedsy]

If someone told you before the game that Ryan and Rasheed would combine to shoot 7 for 25 (28%), would anyone here have predicted a comfortable Duke win?

Plus, I know Mason's game wasn't perfect, and Noel played pretty well, but did anybody notice how Noel had no hope of successfully guarding Mason? Chalk one up for seniors everywhere.

Also, for all those people who said Seth should be coming off the bench, how do you feel now?

[CLW]

IMHO K was BRILLIANT tonight. (offense/defense subs for mason kelly at the end of the 1st half; sheed on the ball; getting curry some rest with the double digit lead; putting mason back in the game "early"; clearly scouting and telling the guards just pump fake and their bigs will go for the block EVERY time etc...) We had a General they had a used car salesman and it showed.

Other thoughts:

1. Basically won a ROAD game against a Top 3 team. I rarely heard the Duke fans tonight. I anticipated it would be bad but it might as well have been played at Rupp.

2. Sheed really showed me something tonight. Started out cold shooting but he kept playing hard and did NOT allow the poor early shooting to affect his D/effort and he was clearly focused/intense the entire game.

3. Kelly has started the year of COLD shooting. However, he did a GREAT job defending with 3 blocks and kept Wiltjer in check after the early 3

4. Curry was just smooth and used all that experience to his advantage schooling the lesser experienced but probably more athletic opponent.

5. Mason was the best player on the floor but unfortunately got tagged with a ton of fouls. He OWNED Noel and could get any shot he wanted anytime. Our guards missed him SEVERAL times when he had Noel posted.

6. Surprised we were outrebounded and we were either outrebounded or barley outrebounded our opponent in the opener. I'm worried the glass may come back and bight us later.

7. Poythress is a FREAK and is CLEARLY kentucky's best player

[jipops]

Mason made a good case for 1st team All American honors. I'm very impressed with Sheed as well. But it was Curry of course who took us home.

I'm very happy for the win, but realistically I think we beat a team that isn't nearly as good as their ranking. UK is very athletic and Poythress is another future pro, but I feel like this UK team would struggle against pretty much all top 50 teams right now. Still, I feel like we saw some signs that the defense has improved, despite the lapses towards the end. The ball movement is especially better.

[Buzzy Duke]

I was not overly impressed with Noel either and he is certainly not Anthony Davis. Not even close. I was more impressed with Poythress in this game.

[CDu]

That was fun. Stressful for a while, but fun. Seth Curry, thank you very much! But it was a terrific team effort.

I loved that down the stretch we really focused on isolating Curry. Calipari tried Polson (does anyone still think he's better than Harrow?), then Mays, then Poythress, then Goodwin, and none of them could stop Curry. It's fun to see a guy step up like that.

I loved Mason's effort and he showed much more offensive polish than he did against GSU. I didn't care for his 4th foul, but he played hard and (for the most part) very smart.

I think tonight's game suggests where Coach K's confidence lies on the perimeter. We saw a rotation of Curry, Cook, Sulaimon, and Thornton for the vast majority of the minutes on the perimeter. So it appears that Coach K doesn't quite trust Murphy and Jefferson fully.

I thought Thornton and Sulaimon did a pretty decent job on Poythress, in spite of the stat line. That guy is just a ridiculous athlete. Still, despite that advantage, I think Poythress's only postup basket came against Murphy. Everything else was off rebounds or open cuts to the rim.

Cook had a much better game tonight. He seemed much more under control, and actually made some really nice plays in transition.

I also loved Hairston's effort tonight. He doesn't get cheated out there. Things could have turned for the worst when Plumlee committed his 4th foul, but Hairston didn't allow himself to be taken advantage of. We actually extended the lead from 6 to double-digits with Mason on the bench.

Just a nice win. Hopefully we can do the same in the Bahamas next week. And hopefully we don't trip up this weekend either.

[SCMatt33]

I'll make this quick. It's late, and I have to get up in less than 5 hours.

Mason gets an A++++++. I took away one plus that I would have given him for that terrible 4th foul, but he did a great job not fouling out until it really didn't matter since you don't want him shooting FT's. I mentioned a red, yellow, green light system for Mason in the last post game thread. He followed it exactly. Most of his looks came moving towards the basket, which gave him easier looks, and allowed him to get fouled. He had a couple of yellow looks, where he was stationary or parallel, like that jumper from the wing early on. He really avoided those red looks from the first game where he starts dribbling too much, fades away, and tries to take three steps while keeping a pivot foot down. That's how he can score 18 points on 8 shots.

Quinn started to look like he will earn more minutes throughout the year. He kept his head up in transition and really made some great passes.

Speaking of passes, assists, assists, assists. Unofficial ESPN box has 15 on 26 made shots, for 57.7% assist rate. Not as ridiculous as last game, but those numbers don't include the passes that forced fouls. Remember, you don't get an assist for an "and one". This is why this years team is looking like it has better chemistry than last year's team.

Seth just took over at the end with some big drives and big free throws. Way to be a senior leader.

Same goes for Kelly, who was a monster at disrupting the UK offense. Kelly led the way on that end of the floor, and the other guys followed his lead.

3 point rate came way down from Ga State. 21 of 57 shots for 36.8% 3PA/FGA. That's right around where I'd want this team all year.

Sheed had a real tough matchup tonight, but he did play admirably for his second college game. I'm really excited to see him grow the rest of the year.

Josh also did an admirable job trying to play center. When Mason went out with 4 fouls, this game could have gone the other way. You won't see it in the stat sheet too much besides a few rebounds and the one put back, but he was a big reason that UK didn't take over and Duke expanded the lead in the middle of the second.

I'll probably say more tomorrow, but I need some sleep. I wasn't sure what to make of this team before, but there is championship potential in them for sure. I'm really excited now.

[Kedsy]

Remember, you don't get an assist for an "and one".

Actually, you do get an assist for an "and one." You don't get an assist for a two shot foul.

[Kedsy]

I was not overly impressed with Noel either and he is certainly not Anthony Davis. Not even close. I was more impressed with Poythress in this game.

Remember that Poythress was generally being defended by a guard, either 6'4 Rasheed or 6'1 Tyler, so he had a huge size advantage. I agree he looked pretty good, but it seemed the game plan was to let him have his and shut down everyone else, and it ended with a Duke W.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I don't know why, but that win is about as gratifying as any since the 2010 Natty. Austin's game winner at UNC might have been a bit better, but against the defending champs where everyone wants to crown them again, it feels good. At the beginning of the game, I was worried because it was Mason and Seth keeping the game close, but no one else was doing much else. Turns out though that we may want it that way. Seth and Mason were superb. Early on Sheed could not ht the broad side of a barn, but the kid is a ball of energy and plays aggressive. He made plays in other ways, until he started hitting in the 2nd. Josh was huge, Quinn played pretty good, and Kelly was solid (mostly defensively). All in all a great win. I had no idea what to expect coming in and they made me excited.

Side notes- First? Amile and Alex will get their opportunities, but our guards were playing well with each other. Would you have sat Sheed for one of them? Heck no. Secondly? We will be a different and better team when Marshall comes back. I am excited for the kid and feel badly he couldn't get his career started on a night like tonight. He is going to be great for Mason and us.

[KenTankerous]

Am I crazy or did y'all, too, see signs as Sulaimon as the next Wojo?

I swear he wanted to slap that floor! And would have at CIS...

[J4Kop99]

Seth played the most complete game and displayed chutzpah that he never quite seemed to unleash last season. He easily earned my vote.

well put. I was very proud of the way he played tonight. He was tremendous throughout the game and kept his poise late. I can't remember one forced shot he had, either... aside from his 2nd shot of the game.

I was also very impressed with sulaimon. He struggled early but kept his composure and continued to work hard on defense. Made some huge shots too.

[SCMatt33]

One thing I forgot in my earlier post when I mentioned the relatively low 3 point attempt rate. I also like to use the 3 as a litmus test for what Duke needs to do to beat good teams. Some years, it takes Duke shooting in the mid to high 40s to beat elite teams. In 2010, they were doing it in the 30's. Duke just beat a top 5 team shooting 38% from 3, and at a low three point rate, too. Like any team, they'll lose shooting under 25% against a good team, but Duke doesn't need to rain three's to hang with the best of them this year, and that's a good sign.

[wilson]

I'll make this quick. It's late, and I have to get up in less than 5 hours.

Mason gets an A++++++. I took away one plus that I would have given him for that terrible 4th foul, but he did a great job not fouling out until it really didn't matter since you don't want him shooting FT's. I mentioned a red, yellow, green light system for Mason in the last post game thread. He followed it exactly. Most of his looks came moving towards the basket, which gave him easier looks, and allowed him to get fouled. He had a couple of yellow looks, where he was stationary or parallel, like that jumper from the wing early on. He really avoided those red looks from the first game where he starts dribbling too much, fades away, and tries to take three steps while keeping a pivot foot down. That's how he can score 18 points on 8 shots.

Quinn started to look like he will earn more minutes throughout the year. He kept his head up in transition and really made some great passes.

Speaking of passes, assists, assists, assists. Unofficial ESPN box has 15 on 26 made shots, for 57.7% assist rate. Not as ridiculous as last game, but those numbers don't include the passes that forced fouls. Remember, you don't get an assist for an "and one". This is why this years team is looking like it has better chemistry than last year's team.

Seth just took over at the end with some big drives and big free throws. Way to be a senior leader.

Same goes for Kelly, who was a monster at disrupting the UK offense. Kelly led the way on that end of the floor, and the other guys followed his lead.

3 point rate came way down from Ga State. 21 of 57 shots for 36.8% 3PA/FGA. That's right around where I'd want this team all year.

Sheed had a real tough matchup tonight, but he did play admirably for his second college game. I'm really excited to see him grow the rest of the year.

Josh also did an admirable job trying to play center. When Mason went out with 4 fouls, this game could have gone the other way. You won't see it in the stat sheet too much besides a few rebounds and the one put back, but he was a big reason that UK didn't take over and Duke expanded the lead in the middle of the second.

I'll probably say more tomorrow, but I need some sleep. I wasn't sure what to make of this team before, but there is championship potential in them for sure. I'm really excited now.Lots of good points here. I especially agree with your comments about Seth and Josh. It's easy to dismiss senior leadership as an overrated intangible, but in today's college game, there just aren't many teams that have a lot of it.
As for Josh, I totally agree that his play with Mason on the bench was instrumental in our keeping control of the game. From a purely physical standpoint, their frontline was quite a handful for us, but our committee of post players put together a very smart game and neutralized a lot of Kentucky's advantages. Josh played a quintessential Duke basketball no-stats, all-glue kind of game.

[Rudy]

Very impressed with this team. Solid defense, especially with Mason out for as long as he was. Ryan worked really hard on defense, did he even come out of the game at all? Is MP3 still hurt? It seems this Duke team may need a 4th big guy available to spell the starters. For long stretches in the second half we had Curry, Thornton and Cook on the court at the same time. This season will be another fun one.

[sporthenry]

I think Duke showed they can get out in transition but they can also slow the pace down. Expect the half court offense to get better as the season goes on. Thought they had a few bad shots in transition specifically Sheed getting blocked twice by Nerlens which were basically turnovers.

But Duke's ability to get out in transition and also run a half court offense will be very important. Imagine Duke being able to continue to grind a UNC team out while pushing a Maryland team specifically Alex Len on the break and hopefully getting a few cheap fouls on him.

[Buzzy Duke]

Remember that Poythress was generally being defended by a guard, either 6'4 Rasheed or 6'1 Tyler, so he had a huge size advantage. I agree he looked pretty good, but it seemed the game plan was to let him have his and shut down everyone else, and it ended with a Duke W.

Understood and that was evident but his athleticism, strength and shooting ability appeared to be on a different level than Noel's. It's different though when you have Mason defending you but I still like Poythress more, at least from what I saw in this game.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Did anyone catch Calipari's interview going into halftime? He mentioned our flopping and said that all of our guys would probably be suspended by now if it was the NBA. That aggravated me. Where did we flop? We took a few charges, but I wouldn't chop all charges up as flops. Go to hell Cal. Good luck with your freshmen this year.

[Kedsy]

Is MP3 still hurt?

Uh, yes.

[Kedsy]

Understood and that was evident but his athleticism, strength and shooting ability appeared to be on a different level than Noel's. It's different though when you have Mason defending you but I still like Poythress more, at least from what I saw in this game.

I agree he's very athletic, and he did hit a three-pointer though that's clearly not his game, but his most impressive plays were the series of putback dunks, and those putback dunks probably don't happen if he's guarded by someone his size who knows how to box out.

[Dukeface88]

Did anyone catch Calipari's interview going into halftime? He mentioned our flopping and said that all of our guys would probably be suspended by now if it was the NBA. That aggravated me. Where did we flop? We took a few charges, but I wouldn't chop all charges up as flops. Go to hell Cal. Good luck with your freshmen this year.

I think K got the better of the exchange. (https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/268581878200672256)

[licc85]

Really proud of the way our guys played tonight. Our seniors stepped up and did what seniors are supposed to do, and our younger guys filled in beautifully. Rasheed lead the teams in assists and rebounds and his shooting in the 2nd half really lifted the team. Quinn was dynamite in transition, and I think he's really beginning to show how good he can be. Josh quite possibly played the best game of his entire career tonight, so props to him. I think this team will continue to get better and better as the year progresses.

Most of all, I'm really happy to see how passionate and animated our team became every time someone made a big play. That shows just how close this team is and says a lot about how good team chemistry is right now. I'm very excited about our potential this year.

[left_hook_lacey]

I know, I always sound like a pessimist, but, continuous improvement, and all that.


A.) Seth was awesome, but where are we if his leg injury acts up? This game was a tribute to his leadership. Harrow out was a big deal.

B.) Mason. He could've fouled out 5 different times in this game. I love his defensive blocking ability, but he has to be more conservative going after shots when he is clearly beaten, at least until Marshall is available.

C.) Kentucky is really talented, but our seniors really showed leadership, and in my opinion, more discipline on offense and defense. That was the difference in the game.

D.) Cal is a slimy jerk...still.

E.) Noel, Poytherss, and Godwin are the real deal. This team will be a handful in the tourney. Mark my words. I don't want to see them unless it's the championship game.

F.) Saliuaman (sp?) looked more comfortable out there than some of the veterans. A star in the making?

[superdave]

Quick perusal of the box score -

We won both halves.
Rebounds were tied at 27 each. Poythress was the only guy who really affected the game on the boards in my opinion. Sulaimon led us with 6.
We were plus 5 in the TO margin, to steal a stat from football.
6 minutes out of Amile and Alex. No points.
The UK bench played 19 minutes. Duke's bench played 40. UK missed Harrow.


Cal said we flopped all over the place. He's an arse.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I think K got the better of the exchange. (https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/268581878200672256)


Lol, the genius of Coach K. I'm glad that I wasn't the only one that got frustrated by that comment. The other thing about Cal that bothers me is that prior to the game he said "were not ready for this game." Way to cover all your bases coach. If we win, I'm so amazing for getting my freshmen ready and if we lose, it's because we're so young and not ready.

[uh_no]

Is anyone out there yet bold enough to still question whether curry should be a starter on this team? I hope he put those discussions to rest.

This team still has a lot of growing to do. I think getting marshall back will be critical. Just having hariston behind kelly and mason is not enough, I fear, and it almost cost us in foul trouble tonight. That aside, I think having marshall is a boon in its own right.

Sauliamon (i think i might need a bit of time to get the spelling of this one down) was a huge bright spot, in my opinion, seemed to look like he belonged out there, not like your typical freshman (and nothing against typical freshman, but how many of them look as comfortable as he did tonight? in his second game? against one of the best teams in the country?)

hope the team is thrilled with this one.

[Buzzy Duke]

I agree he's very athletic, and he did hit a three-pointer though that's clearly not his game, but his most impressive plays were the series of putback dunks, and those putback dunks probably don't happen if he's guarded by someone his size who knows how to box out.

Just glad Duke won.

[Kedsy]

I don't want to see them unless it's the championship game.

I'll be really surprised if this year's Kentucky team makes it to the championship game. Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin may be the real deal, but they're not nearly good enough to carry a team to the Final Four without a huge effort by the supporting cast. They're nowhere near as good as last year's edition (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague). And the supporting cast is nowhere near as good as last year's, either.

[sporthenry]

I'll be really surprised if this year's Kentucky team makes it to the championship game. Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin may be the real deal, but they're not nearly good enough to carry a team to the Final Four without a huge effort by the supporting cast. They're nowhere near as good as last year's edition (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague). And the supporting cast is nowhere near as good as last year's, either.

Not to mention last years supporting cast was 100X better. Terrence Jones, Miller, and Lamb aren't walking through the door either.

[gumbomoop]

Many good posts. I'll re-emphasize Ryan's D on Wiltjer, who got off a mere 5 shots. Wiltjer is a smart, steady player, the most UK-experienced guy out there, and someone through whom the UK O would have been run more consistently, had it not been for Ryan's steady, hard D. Ryan is also a shot-blocker. Doesn't look like one, not flashy, but he knows how to block shots. Got 3 tonight/last night.

Seth and Mason were fun to watch. Seth's handle, just a little inconsistent last 2 years, was impressive tonight, as was hesitation stuff. Not to mention a nice smile. Josh's energy was big. Rasheed does not lack for confidence, took 14 shots. Team A/TO 2:1 a nice stat.

The 2 lane violations in 1st half were really irritating, resulting in 3 "extra" points for UK.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I'll be really surprised if this year's Kentucky team makes it to the championship game. Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin may be the real deal, but they're not nearly good enough to carry a team to the Final Four without a huge effort by the supporting cast. They're nowhere near as good as last year's edition (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague). And the supporting cast is nowhere near as good as last year's, either.


The other thing I noticed is who do they have as 3 point shooters besides Wiltjer? I'm not sold on Goodwin yet. He's good, but he makes mistakes and he seems to sulk if he is struggling.

[elvis14]

Well that was fun. I have nothing but positives:

* Loved the way that everyone that played seemed to do something good.

* Seth had a great game. I hope he can sustain this level of play.

* Mason played a solid, smart game (except for that 4th foul)

* QC played really well tonight. Love how he pushed the ball and made good decisions in transition

* Rasheed just does lots of things really well on a basketball court

* Poythress is a beast. Hats off to him for a great game

* Noel did OK, I can see what everyone is excited about (I bet both Kid and Play are fans)

* Team defense was good. Lots of good defense from lots of guys (especially Ryan Kelly)

* Lots of confidence from our team in this game

* It was nice to see Murphy get a little burn, Amile as well.

* The game was just fun to watch

* Cal's comments at halftime were classless (OK so that's not positive)

[Big Pappa]

Also, for all those people who said Seth should be coming off the bench, how do you feel now?

This!

Mason and Seth were obviously fantastic, so that doesn't need to be elaborated on any further. Three things that aren't getting a lot of mention that I thought were huge:

1. Ryan's defense on Wiltjer. Wiltjer ends with 5 points on 5 shots and looked visibly frustrated for much of the game.

2. Sheed was HUGE. Came out shooting poorly, but had the confidence to step into rhythm threes in the second half and knock three of them down. He also led us in rebounds (6) and assists (5).

3. We are just a different team with Quinn on the floor. He pushed the ball so well in transition and hit two big shots when our offense became a little stagnant. He also played great D.

My only concern is the lack of trust K seems to have in Alex. When he entered the game in the first half I was so encouraged, but he was pulled again quickly. I just don't think we can continue to win with Tyler guarding big and athletic small forwards, but it's obvious that K trusts Tyler more at this point. I'm hoping with more practices and games that changes.

Overall a great early season win and a great team effort. Very proud of our guys.

[OldSchool]

I'd agree with Coach K that Josh was the unsung hero of the game. Those 2 baskets with Mason out helped extend the lead and he did the little things. Tough to vote him Man of the Match but I just might have to.

I'm becoming a Josh fan. I must admit that I've wondered just where Josh fits in the grand scheme of things. He doesn't have the size and athleticism to match up at the 5 or, against many of the elite program opponents, even at the 4. He's not a bad shooter, he can hit an open jump shot, but he doesn't have the outside shooting touch of a guy like Kelly nor the quickness to match up at the 3.

However, the guy has become just a good, solid basketball player. On defense, he always knows where the ball is and where his man is. He is intense and focused. His footwork is solid. If a loose ball is somewhere in his vicinity, he has quick reactions and good hands and there is a good chance he will end up with the ball.

His fouls tonight for the most part were not bad fouls, they were from being physically outmatched against Noel. Kentucky tried to exploit the mismatch, but on many of the possessions Josh gave as good as he got.

[left_hook_lacey]

I'll be really surprised if this year's Kentucky team makes it to the championship game. Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin may be the real deal, but they're not nearly good enough to carry a team to the Final Four without a huge effort by the supporting cast. They're nowhere near as good as last year's edition (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague). And the supporting cast is nowhere near as good as last year's either.

I agree that they are not as good as last year's edition. But I haven't seen a team yet(granted it's early) that just wows me. So it's a wide-open season right now.

They need Harrow healthy and productive, while also being a leader to those younger players. If they can get good, disciplined guard play and stay healthy...look out.

Sliminess aside, Cal is a good coach and has a knack for getting young, raw talent to play together. This may be his rawest team in a while, but the potential energy is there. And they showed some explosiveness tonight. If they get some confidence in their defensive sets, the rest will follow, IMO. Their upside is limitless from what I saw tonight. There aren't a lot of teams out there right now you can say that about.

I feel like our upside is huge when you consider our underclassmen, coupled with our coaching staff. But I feel like it has a ceiling when you consider out front court.

[Faustus]

And only the second game of the season, too, November 13th. I was very impressed once shots started to fall about 10 minutes into the game, and very proud of the team (loved the real blue road uniforms for a game of this stature, too). I'm sure all the suporting players' roles will be expanded as the year progresses, but in their own ways they came through tonight. Outstanding perfomance on the whole, and vs. UK, sweet.
D.

[Starter]

I think Kentucky's going to be a heck of a team come March, provided they get some semblance of point guard play. Just having a frontcourt like that... I mean, Noel isn't a finished product by any means, but he'll be a lot closer at the end of the season. And Poythress is an absolute monster.

I loved the energy and playmaking Cook brought when he checked in and began pushing the tempo; he made a lot of things happen for himself and others and looked perfectly adequate and active defensively. There are just certain things he brings that nobody else on the roster does, and his dynamic element was definitely needed against top tier talent. Plumlee looked superb and aggressive while looking for his offense more. Curry, obviously, was fantastic; whatever's wrong with him really doesn't seem to be affecting his game very much. Just a solid, veteran performance by a team that was far too experienced for a talented and young team still attempting to gel.

Long-term, I am a bit concerned about the fact that this team still plays no semblance of a small forward. God bless him for his effort, but as much of a mismatch as Thornton-Barnes was last year, Thornton-Poythress was that much more so. Between Jefferson and Murphy, there has to be a way to rectify that. But overall, this team obviously showed they're going to be very competitive due to chemistry, improved defense and senior leadership.

[nyesq83]

Smirked while saying his little 'joke' about flopping.

He indirectly was complaining about the officiating, and he set the stage for the rest of the year, so that the officials will hesitate to call it an offensive foul vs. Duke.

What a scumbag.

[burnspbesq]

espn.com needs moar editors.


With Mason Plumlee on the bench, the Blue Devils defied logic, going on an 11-5 run, spearheaded by Sulaimon’s huge 3-pointer and the surprise contribution of P.J. Hairston.

Sigh.

[wilko]

With Mason Plumlee on the bench, the Blue Devils defied logic, going on an 11-5 run, spearheaded by Sulaimon’s huge 3-pointer and the surprise contribution of P.J. Hairston..

Well they are right ...... it would be a heck of a surprise..

[ChillinDuke]

Fun, fun game. Thought we looked good.

I have followed the board a long time and have only posted for 3 years or so, but allow me to clearly entrench myself (perhaps further) as one of the board members who emphasizes that freshmen are not the only teammates who can improve a team.

How about a senior?

Seth Curry.

Maybe I was too blinded, but did this kid not look improved? I mean he looked excellent to me. He knocked down shots, skipped in floaters, hesitation moves looked great, excellent court awareness (when to pull it back when to assert), didn't run the team throughout but knew when to assume the role, level headed, noticeably improved defense (to my eye), handle was better than I remembered.

I apologize if I forgot where we left off with Seth at the end of last year. But man oh man. For all those calling Quinn, Alex, Rasheed, even Amile (in limited time) as the new heroes of this team, Seth Curry appeared to me as the #1a on this team and the biggest piece of the puzzle tonight.

Hope he keeps up the great work.

Well done, boys.

- Chillin

PS - Plumlee was ok too. I guess...

[dragoneye776]

Any idea where I can watch the post game press conferences/interviews? They aren't on GoDuke as usual.

[Jim3k]

6. Surprised we were outrebounded and we were either outrebounded or barley outrebounded our opponent in the opener. I'm worried the glass may come back and bight us later.



We were not out out-rebounded, though it was pretty even. We had 31; they had 30. We had 11 offensive; they had 9.

[BD80]

I'm beginning to think this Coach K guy might know what he is doing. I think he'll work out.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm beginning to think this Coach K guy might know what he is doing. I think he'll work out.

I think it's a bit early for comments like that. Let's see if he can recruit a left handed big man first, or play zone, or win "real" road games.

[plimnko]

Fun, fun game. Thought we looked good.

I have followed the board a long time and have only posted for 3 years or so, but allow me to clearly entrench myself (perhaps further) as one of the board members who emphasizes that freshmen are not the only teammates who can improve a team.

How about a senior?

Seth Curry.

Maybe I was too blinded, but did this kid not look improved? I mean he looked excellent to me. He knocked down shots, skipped in floaters, hesitation moves looked great, excellent court awareness (when to pull it back when to assert), didn't run the team throughout but knew when to assume the role, level headed, noticeably improved defense (to my eye), handle was better than I remembered.

I apologize if I forgot where we left off with Seth at the end of last year. But man oh man. For all those calling Quinn, Alex, Rasheed, even Amile (in limited time) as the new heroes of this team, Seth Curry appeared to me as the #1a on this team and the biggest piece of the puzzle tonight.

Hope he keeps up the great work.

Well done, boys.

- Chillin

PS - Plumlee was ok too. I guess...

It looked to me as though Seth was having fun. Something I didn't see last year.

[mapleleafdevil]

Smirked while saying his little 'joke' about flopping.

He indirectly was complaining about the officiating, and he set the stage for the rest of the year, so that the officials will hesitate to call it an offensive foul vs. Duke.

What a scumbag.

Golden response by K...something to the effect of we don't make any money so we can't be fined!

[gus]

Smirked while saying his little 'joke' about flopping.

He indirectly was complaining about the officiating, and he set the stage for the rest of the year, so that the officials will hesitate to call it an offensive foul vs. Duke.

What a scumbag.

I wouldn't worry about a Calipari comment affecting how our games are officiated.

[Saratoga2]

A few thoughts, before I plunge into the many posts from others. Coach K had a strategy of keeping Ryan on Wiltjer whether he roamed the perimeter or was inside. Ryan did an exellent job of keeping his shots down and essentially took him out of the game. It appeared that Ryan was also used on offense primarily on the outside. This tended to leave Mason alone inside on defense and also opened up the court for him to score or drop the ball back outside to a scorer.

Kentucky really had no point guard and were not really proficient on penetrating. The one area we were left naked on was second chance points since Mason or Josh couldn't alter shots and also guard people getting a free lane to the basket for putbacks. Our guards were unable or didn't understand that they needed to block out and we didn't use our small forwards all that much, presumably due to their inexperience.

The takeaway is that playing this game, we were flirting with accumulating fouls on Mason and Josh, and eventually they fouled out. Having Marshall available would make this team a lot better.

All that said, I think Mason had a terrific game for the amount of time he was in the game. We also got a terrific game from Seth. Clearly, his maturity and shooting ability were essentiial in the win. Our initial starting lineup with Tyler at the point didn't seem to be working out too well and even though Quinn wound up with a few turnovers, his penetration and ball movement helped us get the offense going. Josh helped with his strength and hustle. Rasheed is the real deal out there as well and will help us in every sort of game. Both Alex and Amile will get more burn as time goes on. We will need more offense from Ryan as his shots are not falling and he was even off from the foul line. I have no doubt he will get his touch back soon.

So, we passed the first big test, and coach K came up with a winning strategy. How will we do against a team with big and quick penetrating guards? We will have the fun of seeing this unfold as the team develops. Hope Seth came away without too much pain, we really need him.

[Saratoga2]

Dickie Vitale was unbearable to listen to. Not a word about the game in progress. The guy should put on a cheer leader outfit and take on that role as the best he can do. Also, I noticed that Calipari has a habit of keeping at least one foot on the playing floor all the time. Shouldn't the refs give him a technical for doing that?

[NashvilleDevil]

I'll be really surprised if this year's Kentucky team makes it to the championship game. Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin may be the real deal, but they're not nearly good enough to carry a team to the Final Four without a huge effort by the supporting cast. They're nowhere near as good as last year's edition (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague). And the supporting cast is nowhere near as good as last year's, either.

I think this will be a down year for college basketball and because of that I wouldn't be surprised if Kentucky makes a Final Four run.

[jcastranio]

Great games from the three seniors. Ryan and Mason had lower rebounding totals because of their defensive efforts - the rest of the team picked up the slack. Ryan still struggling with the shooting, but I feel comfortable with him taking the shots. Seth was amazing. Mason took on the "star" mantle.

Rasheed looks like a veteran.

Tyler and Josh were key tonight. Steady on defense and in the right spot. Key free throws for Tyler? - no problem.

Quin played a steady game. I was satisfied with where he was tonight.

Alex and Amile will be fine. They pace of the defensive game seemed to move too fast for them tonight. Josh Hairston was in that same boat once. Give them some time.

[moonpie23]

man, does vegas know? or what.......


watching sports center this morning........cats get the highlights, devils get the W


i'll take the W

[brumby041]

Smirked while saying his little 'joke' about flopping.

He indirectly was complaining about the officiating, and he set the stage for the rest of the year, so that the officials will hesitate to call it an offensive foul vs. Duke.

What a scumbag.

Took a page right out of the Gary Williams coaching bible...

[tele]

I'm beginning to think this Coach K guy might know what he is doing. I think he'll work out.

Well, just in case you want to reconsider before you decide, Espn 3 or whatever it is called, has the game up for re-pleasure viewing.

Great game, great early season win, nice job all round.

[Luther]

This was a game we lose last year, plain and simple. The defense and rebounding were excellent, despite the staff deciding for the strategy of putting Rasheed on Poythress for the bulk of the game. He got some good O-boards and scored, but our defense on everyone else was mostly superb.

People will complain about not putting Alex or Amile on Poythress, but I think it was a gamble that worked. Seth, Rasheed, and Quinn were playing well on offense, together, and the defense was still really good. There might be games where Rasheed is overmatched and it hurts the team, overall, but I'm not sure that Amile or Alex would've brought enough rebounding and offense to compensate for losing Rasheed or Seth for large stretches of the game.

I couldn't agree more. This team is much better than last year and I love it!!!!!

[Luther]

I'll be really surprised if this year's Kentucky team makes it to the championship game. Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin may be the real deal, but they're not nearly good enough to carry a team to the Final Four without a huge effort by the supporting cast. They're nowhere near as good as last year's edition (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague). And the supporting cast is nowhere near as good as last year's, either.

I agree that UK is nowhere near as good as last are but who are the real contenders? Indian had a huge melt down last year, Louisville was a fluke, Ohio State lost Sullinger, NC State.... Man this year is going to be interesting.

[CharlestonDevil]

1) STOP the Big Man Myth
2) Sulaimon is the next big thing
3) Where is Alex Murphy?

When Mason stated that "one more year with Coach K is better than going on to the NBA" I'll admit I was pleasantly surprised. Now I'm fully convinced. He looks like a different player. Confidence through the roof.

Rasheed has the skill set to be very good. More importantly he is intelligent and has the CONFIDENCE that many of our recent players have lacked. Mark my words, he will be the next Duke player to start getting under the skin of opposing fans. Especially if he starts slapping the floor.

In 2 minutes of PT Murphy looked scared. Kid obviously has the talent but K needs to find a way to inject some of Singler's will to win if he is going to make the impact we all expect.

[Bob Green]

I agree he looked pretty good, but it seemed the game plan was to let him have his and shut down everyone else, and it ended with a Duke W.

Nice observation! This is a strategy Coach K frequently employs with great success.

[77devil]

I'm beginning to think this Coach K guy might know what he is doing. I think he'll work out.


I think it's a bit early for comments like that. Let's see if he can recruit a left handed big man first, or play zone, or win "real" road games.

Let's not forget learning how to use the bench. It's only game 2 and Coach has already shortened the rotation to 7 players. Good grief.

[hq2]

This is a fun team to watch. Summer work paid off with improved play and confidence from our seniors. Intensity was great, and still lots of improvement and growth as a team to come.

This is going to be a fun year!

I think so too. I think Quinn Cook could be the difference. For the first time in years, we have a bona-fide pass first
point guard with the ball; means Mason will actually get some more touches, when he could do something with it too.
Our D looks better too; Josh can handle the 'tweeners a little better. With senior leadership, we could beat a lot of
inexperienced teams in the NCAAs. Kentucky will get better, but their talent is not as overwhelming as last year.

And as for Mason, can't ask him to play much better than that. Hope he can keep it up; recall that last year, after
playing both Sullinger and Thomas Robinson about even early, he sort of faded later. Hopefully, with Quinn Cook to
get him the ball, that won't happen this year.

[Bob Green]

Dickie Vitale was unbearable to listen to.

He always is...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-o9J4lmsqkZo/TZDtCeuzh0I/AAAAAAAAAnI/4t43ceZpkIs/s200/remote_mute_button_fig1.jpg

[OldPhiKap]

Rasheed has the skill set to be very good. More importantly he is intelligent and has the CONFIDENCE that many of our recent players have lacked. Mark my words, he will be the next Duke player to start getting under the skin of opposing fans. Especially if he starts slapping the floor.



I really like the fact that, from the beginning, Rasheed was not afraid to take the shot in his first big game and on his first big stage. Kid has real skill and savvy. He could be the big break-out scoring threat, in addition to what we know Seth, Mason and Ryan can do.

Color me "seriously impressed."

[roywhite]

I really like the fact that, from the beginning, Rasheed was not afraid to take the shot in his first big game and on his first big stage. Kid has real skill and savvy. He could be the big break-out scoring threat, in addition to what we know Seth, Mason and Ryan can do.

Color me "seriously impressed."

Yep, I'm with you on that, OPK.

This was a really big stage for his 2nd college game and he played well. Some of those shots seemed to be just a bit off; expect his percentage will increase as he continues to gain experience.
I think he's more of a "scorer" than a "shooter"; has a good stroke, but also can get some points on drives, steals, and maybe an occasional put-back.

And what a floor game to come up with 5 assists and 0 turnovers.

[CDu]

Yep, I'm with you on that, OPK.

This was a really big stage for his 2nd college game and he played well. Some of those shots seemed to be just a bit off; expect his percentage will increase as he continues to gain experience.
I think he's more of a "scorer" than a "shooter"; has a good stroke, but also can get some points on drives, steals, and maybe an occasional put-back.

And what a floor game to come up with 5 assists and 0 turnovers.

I'll stick by my original assessment that he reminds me of a taller Nolan Smith. He's going to be very good. Well, he's already pretty good. But I think he's going to be VERY good.

Mason looked MUCH better offensively last night than he did against GSU. Curry was unstoppable at times. With Sulaimon and Kelly able to add scoring punch as well, we are going to be very tough to beat - especially once we get Marshall back to add frontcourt depth.

[roywhite]

I'll stick by my original assessment that he reminds me of a taller Nolan Smith. He's going to be very good. Well, he's already pretty good. But I think he's going to be VERY good.

Mason looked MUCH better offensively last night than he did against GSU. Curry was unstoppable at times. With Sulaimon and Kelly able to add scoring punch as well, we are going to be very tough to beat - especially once we get Marshall back to add frontcourt depth.

Huge props to Seth. He's now channeling Allen Iverson...."practice, who needs practice" :)

We should find out more about Seth's durability next week at that tourney in the Bahamas...how does his leg stand up to 3 games in 3 days?

[COYS]

I really like the fact that, from the beginning, Rasheed was not afraid to take the shot in his first big game and on his first big stage. Kid has real skill and savvy. He could be the big break-out scoring threat, in addition to what we know Seth, Mason and Ryan can do.

Color me "seriously impressed."

Completely agree. Rasheed was very impressive.

I don't know how anyone can be anything but encouraged after this game.

Is Seth healthy enough to play at a high level? Yes

Is the defense improved over last year? So far, it is light-years ahead

Is Rasheed ready to play on the big stage? For sure. He would have been MOTM if he had made a few more shots (and he missed some makable ones).

Is Josh ready to contribute more, especially if our bigs get in foul trouble? Absolutely. He committed some fouls, but his defense on Noel was impressive given his size disadvantage. His two put-backs while Mason was out with 4 fouls were absolutely key. There's no doubt the team will benefit when Marshall is healthy and there's also no doubt that Kelly and Mason are our premier players at the forward spot. However, just knowing Josh is capable of playing defense at a high level is good news.

Is Quinn ready for prime time? Quinn didn't put up big numbers, but he steadied the offense and, for the most part made good decisions. He and Rasheed combined to give the team a transition element that was nonexistent last year. It was not by accident that Quinn started the second half instead of Tyler (despite Tyler's usual solid contributions). As funny as it may sound, I actually like that Quinn is learning how to gut out solid performances in defensive contests dominated in the half-court. We all know he's capable of a big break-out game. It's just a matter of time 'til he has one. In the meantime, he's learning how to hang tough and win tough.

What do Alex and Amile provide? This is the only question that was not necessarily answered favorably. Coach K talked about Alex as a possible all ACC performer. Amile was very, very impressive in the exhibitions and had some nice plays against Georgia State. However, neither got much burn last night. I would caution anyone against drawing any conclusions about their ability to contribute in the future, however. Last season at this stage, Austin was sitting on the bench while Tyler made some ridiculous shots as we beat Kansas. Two seasons ago, Kyrie was leading us to victory over the likes of K-State and Michigan State. Three seasons ago, Miles was starting alongside Lance Thomas who was just supposed to be a placeholder until Mason could heal from his wrist injury and come in and provide the inside play that we had not gotten from Lance and Zoubs for the three previous years. Four seasons ago, Nolan Smith had replaced Greg Paulus as the starter at point guard. By the end of the season, neither Nolan nor Greg would be starting at point guard, and Elliot Smith had moved from a few DNP-CD's to the starting spot.

Anyway, my point is that the rotations are far more likely to change due to performance and circumstance than they are to remain the same. The staff clearly gave Amile and Alex a look to see if they would be able to help out in this game and concluded (correctly, in my opinion), that Rasheed, Seth, Quinn, and Tyler were all playing good enough defense and providing more on offense than Amile or Alex could contribute. I still expect to see a break-out game for each of them as the season goes on. And while Seth played really well last night, his lingering injury might mean that there are games where he just can't give as much as we'd like and we'll need Alex or Amile (or both) to log major minutes.

[Bluealum]

Let's not forget learning how to use the bench. It's only game 2 and Coach has already shortened the rotation to 7 players. Good grief.

So I made the mistake of trying to predict the game (for the first time and post it) and I have been exposed...

I thought Ryan and Seth would be held to under 12 points apiece. WRONG (well Ryan was at 10...but he was so busy putting a complete defensive blanket on Wiltjer and his shots were so good that it is immaterial. Seth was stellar, and at a different level than last year. Agree with many that year after year we tend to under-appreciate how much a junior can improve)

I thought Mason would score well (15-20 points) but would need a lot of shots to get there. WRONG

I thought, most importantly, that we would win if the crew of Quinn, Amile, Alex, and Rasheed combined to score 35+ and lose if not. VERY WRONG (They scored 17 and we won fairly comfortably)

I didn't even think much about Josh Hairston's potential game changing contributions... If I had predicted anything here I would have been WRONG

I did think that Thornton would not score much. True, but he was effective and produced fewer cringe worthy plays than in the past. He too is improving with his decision making.

How nice it is to be wrong and come out with a W. I am out of the prediction business after 1 attempt.

Go Duke!

[Big Pappa]

Anyway, my point is that the rotations are far more likely to change due to performance and circumstance than they are to remain the same. The staff clearly gave Amile and Alex a look to see if they would be able to help out in this game and concluded (correctly, in my opinion), that Rasheed, Seth, Quinn, and Tyler were all playing good enough defense and providing more on offense than Amile or Alex could contribute. I still expect to see a break-out game for each of them as the season goes on. And while Seth played really well last night, his lingering injury might mean that there are games where he just can't give as much as we'd like and we'll need Alex or Amile (or both) to log major minutes.

Great points about K not solidifying lineups until much later in the season. I bolded the above because I am having trouble seeing how Tyler really gave us a better option last night than Alex (or Amile). 6'1" 190lb TT guarding 6'8" 240lb Poythress was a nightmare and reminiscent of Barnes and Thornton last year. I don't think anyone can effectively argue that Tyler gives us significantly more than Alex on offense right now either. Murphy runs the fast break very well and has shown to be a very capable rebounder, both offensively and defensively. \

I agree with the statement that Alex looked scared last night in his 2 minutes, but why wouldn't he be? He started all three exhibition games and then gets a DNP in his first real game against Georgia State. When he finally is able to get in the game he is pulled after 2 minutes. I wouldn't have any confidence either if I was put in that situation.

Before I get hammered for questioning K, let me end with the disclaimer that I am very aware he is superior to me in every basketball (and possibly many other) way fathomable. I really just wanted to state my opinion on it and then hear from you all.

[COYS]

Great points about K not solidifying lineups until much later in the season. I bolded the above because I am having trouble seeing how Tyler really gave us a better option last night than Alex (or Amile). 6'1" 190lb TT guarding 6'8" 240lb Poythress was a nightmare and reminiscent of Barnes and Thornton last year. I don't think anyone can effectively argue that Tyler gives us significantly more than Alex on offense right now either. Murphy runs the fast break very well and has shown to be a very capable rebounder, both offensively and defensively. \

I agree with the statement that Alex looked scared last night in his 2 minutes, but why wouldn't he be? He started all three exhibition games and then gets a DNP in his first real game against Georgia State. When he finally is able to get in the game he is pulled after 2 minutes. I wouldn't have any confidence either if I was put in that situation.

Before I get hammered for questioning K, let me end with the disclaimer that I am very aware he is superior to me in every basketball (and possibly many other) way fathomable. I really just wanted to state my opinion on it and then hear from you all.

I agree with you that Tyler was a poor matchup for Poythress. However, Tyler played a little less in the second half than in the first and K even sat Tyler in favor of Quinn for the start of the second half when he almost always trots out the starting lineup, again. I think the idea for the staff was to have, as a primary lineup, Rasheed, Quinn, and Seth on the perimeter. Tyler spelled Rasheed and Seth for stretches (although that was a bit ugly when he was matched up with Poythress). Tyler was also in the game towards the end as another ball handler. Perhaps having Alex or Amile as a backup to Rasheed may have worked better on defense without hurting much if at all on offense while Rasheed was out. However, I think that the overall decision to go with Rasheed, Quinn and Seth as the primary operators on the perimeter was the right one. In the future, I hope that Alex and Amile are also viable options in that situation.

[greybeard]

Fun, fun game. Thought we looked good.

I have followed the board a long time and have only posted for 3 years or so, but allow me to clearly entrench myself (perhaps further) as one of the board members who emphasizes that freshmen are not the only teammates who can improve a team.

How about a senior?

Seth Curry.

Maybe I was too blinded, but did this kid not look improved? I mean he looked excellent to me. He knocked down shots, skipped in floaters, hesitation moves looked great, excellent court awareness (when to pull it back when to assert), didn't run the team throughout but knew when to assume the role, level headed, noticeably improved defense (to my eye), handle was better than I remembered.

I apologize if I forgot where we left off with Seth at the end of last year. But man oh man. For all those calling Quinn, Alex, Rasheed, even Amile (in limited time) as the new heroes of this team, Seth Curry appeared to me as the #1a on this team and the biggest piece of the puzzle tonight.

Hope he keeps up the great work.

Well done, boys.

- Chillin

PS - Plumlee was ok too. I guess...

To me, this says it. Nice.

[Big Pappa]

I agree with you that Tyler was a poor matchup for Poythress. However, Tyler played a little less in the second half than in the first and K even sat Tyler in favor of Quinn for the start of the second half when he almost always trots out the starting lineup, again. I think the idea for the staff was to have, as a primary lineup, Rasheed, Quinn, and Seth on the perimeter. Tyler spelled Rasheed and Seth for stretches (although that was a bit ugly when he was matched up with Poythress). Tyler was also in the game towards the end as another ball handler. Perhaps having Alex or Amile as a backup to Rasheed may have worked better on defense without hurting much if at all on offense while Rasheed was out. However, I think that the overall decision to go with Rasheed, Quinn and Seth as the primary operators on the perimeter was the right one. In the future, I hope that Alex and Amile are also viable options in that situation.

I agree about that backcourt situation for the most part, but even when Sheed was matched up with Poythress we had problems - especially on the defensive glass. If Kentucky had decided to look for him offensively AT ALL I think it could have been a different game. I realize that we aren't going to play many guys like Poythress this year, but they will come. One that we will meet fairly soon is Deshaun Thomas. He's a totally different kind of player, but still a matchup problem for either Sheed or Tyler.

But what it comes down to is that, as you alluded to in your post COYS, the coaching staff is faced with the 'problem' that Seth and Sheed are two of our very best players and neither one of them is a natural PG. This means that to give us the best chance to win on most nights they need to be on the floor together with a more natural PG to facilitate. Thus we see the Quinn, Seth, Sheed, Ryan, Mason lineup.

[Ichabod Drain]

I was at the games last night and the whole thing was an awesome experience. Both games were really good and the crowd was intense. It seemed like UK fans outnumbered duke, MSU, and KU fans combined. Thankfully the ones sitting behind us were very nice and respectable Kentucky fans. At one point though the guy said, and I quote "everyone knows Cal pays his players, and I'm ok with it too as long as he doesn't get caught." His wife was telling him to shut up by mid sentence. It was a great game and I was really impressed by our team play, I plan on watching the recording tonight to get some better looks at how we did.

[watzone]

What a great win last night! Media was in the house until 3 in the morning with so much going on. Here are a few post game videos with Mason and Seth and another game story or take - http://bluedevilnation.net/ We will have one up with Josh Hairston in a few where he called this game his best in his Duke career. Key buckets and good D from Josh!

[greybeard]

Kelly's defense on Wiltjer was key. If he gets going, it's a very different game.

Kelly played Wiltjar tough with a bit of an edge, a just short of nasty, and with the smarts he brings to the game. He was in his grill and didn't let the kid breath. Made some great steals, and still had the ability to make a few off the ball blocks. Very impressive. Kelly usually depends much more often just on his smarts. This let the kid know that this was a whole different game, on a whole different level, that he only thought he was ready for. Great performance, in my opinion. That were many keys to this game, everyone was bringing it with freedon, control, and an unshakeable confidence in themselves and one another. They melded well. I think this might have been the best I have seen Duke play since last season began.

[OldPhiKap]

I am out of the prediction business after 1 attempt.


If only weathermen and political pundits were as honorable as you! ;>)

This early, it is hard to predict anything. I imagine we will see different combinations over the three day Bahamas Tourney.



Regarding another post on TT: K said last night that TT draws the toughest defensive job. So I imagine that has a lot to do with it.

[Big Pappa]

I think that, by far, the most amazing stat of the night was Mason (a career 50.9% FT shooter) goes 4-4 from the line while Ryan Kelly (a career 78.9% FT shooter) goes 1-4. Obviously an aberration, but amazing nonetheless.

[Li_Duke]

I've been really impressed with Mason the past 2 games. Last year, I thought he had 4 things that he had to improve on: 1) avoid trying to do too much (ie. trying to dribble it into the post from just inside the 3-point line), 2) once he received it in the post, make his move for the score or the pass quickly and with confidence (rather than take several dribbles to get comfortable), 3) improve his free-throw shooting, 4) avoid reaching fouls out on the perimeter. He's demonstrated that he's improved with 1-3. In addition, I love his energy on the boards. In the past 2 games, the defender would have him in what looked like box-out position and Mason would scramble around him at the last minute to try and get the board. He didn't always succeed with that against Kentucky, but it takes a lot of energy and desire to keep doing that through-out the game and it wears out the opposing big men. Lastly 7-8 FG shooting (and 4-4 FT shooting) with 3 assists in 29 minutes against an All-Defense caliber big man? Wow, it's a shame the fouls prevented him from staying in and dominating Noel all game.

I've also been very impressed with Sulaimon. I thought he looked like the 2nd best freshman out there (second to Noel). Despite his shot not falling, I thought he showed a lot of confidence and desire and just made plays. And yes, I say that fully aware that Poythress looked like a beast out there (sure, 5 offensive boards and put-backs over guys much smaller than him is impressive, but I would have been more impressed if he took advantage of the mismatch even more and demanded the ball on post-ups. Also, when matched up against a supposedly slower Kelly, he couldn't manage to get around him and ended up getting his shot stuffed). Give me Sulaimon over Poythress any day.

[gwlaw99]

But what it comes down to is that, as you alluded to in your post COYS, the coaching staff is faced with the 'problem' that Seth and Sheed are two of our very best players and neither one of them is a natural PG. This means that to give us the best chance to win on most nights they need to be on the floor together with a more natural PG to facilitate. Thus we see the Quinn, Seth, Sheed, Ryan, Mason lineup.

I wonder if we will see Rasheed and Curry as the two starting guards at some point with Amile or Alex at SF. Rasheed showed he can be a playmaker last night. Scheyer/Smith showed we can win with two combo guards.

[sagegrouse]

I got a few answers to my internal questions:

Who's our All-American? Maybe both Seth and Mason.

Is Rasheed a rare Duke freshman ready for high-level college competition? Hell, yes!

Can Quinn Cook play effectively at the point? Yes. I am not sure he can be dominant, but I thought he played very well at times.

Will Josh earn his minutes? Yes.

Will K be afraid to use a three-guard lineup against bigger teams? Nope -- not this year, not ever.

Will Tyler be relegated to the bench in favor of more talented players? Nope -- he'll get his minutes all season long.

Is Calipari rebuilding or reloading? Rebuilding. UK has only 3-4 front line players, all of whom are freshmen. The big hyphen is a big question mark, and I have never been sold on Ryan Harrow. Last year his two freshmen stars would have started in the NBA -- much better than anyone on this team.

And some uncertainties.........

Will Alex and Amile make major contributions this year? Maybe not, but I am not giving up hope.

Can Ryan be an All-ACC performer? Maybe, but he didn't show as much as I hoped against Kentucky, although his defense was good.

Will Duke use a 8-9 man rotation? I'm still hoping, but we gotta have some doubts at the moment.

sagegrouse

[killerleft]

1) STOP the Big Man Myth
2) Sulaimon is the next big thing
3) Where is Alex Murphy?

When Mason stated that "one more year with Coach K is better than going on to the NBA" I'll admit I was pleasantly surprised. Now I'm fully convinced. He looks like a different player. Confidence through the roof.

Rasheed has the skill set to be very good. More importantly he is intelligent and has the CONFIDENCE that many of our recent players have lacked. Mark my words, he will be the next Duke player to start getting under the skin of opposing fans. Especially if he starts slapping the floor.

In 2 minutes of PT Murphy looked scared. Kid obviously has the talent but K needs to find a way to inject some of Singler's will to win if he is going to make the impact we all expect.

I think Mr. Murphy is running his own race. He'll be fine when he gets comfortable on the floor. Nobody but Coach K and Murphy will decide when that is, and no amount of preseason hype by Duke Nation can make Alex into someone he's not.

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

I agree he's very athletic, and he did hit a three-pointer though that's clearly not his game, but his most impressive plays were the series of putback dunks, and those putback dunks probably don't happen if he's guarded by someone his size who knows how to box out.

Well said and I totally agree! Nonetheless, the end result was a win but I felt the length of Amile Jefferson may have bothered Polythress somewhat thus limiting some of the highlight dunks. Either way, neither Sheed nor TT backed down and that speaks volumes for their defensive mentalities.

[wilko]

Like many of y'all I was up late and up early so I feel kind of fuzzy around the edges.
So take my observation with a spoon full of salt...

I'm really curious to see what MP3 adds to the mix. As it was Mason had to cover BOTH AP and NN in post duty at times. Perhaps with MP3 at 100% he takes NN and MP2 can focus on AP... and that dynamic changes the game a different way. The quicker MP3 gets into the rotation it could help solve our "What to do against a PF" dilemma.

When MP2 went out with 4 fouls... I was as befuddled as the rest of you. I thought "ballgame" - Duke would be lucky to hang on and keep it respectable. But they thrived. Seth took over. Like many of you I was hoping that some combination of Cook, Jefferson, Murphy would step up and become a hero... But Seths performance was awesome. I hope the win helps ease any pain he may be having today.
In either case I'll take it!

Kelly's D last nite was the best I can ever recall seeing him play. Blocks, rebounds, general movement, veteran moves... If I had one wish for Kelly it would be to have more of a mean streak like a Danny Meagher closer to the basket. He seems to have the mindset and skills of a 2 guard, but lacks foot-speed and elevation to be a truly elite out of the traditional post role. He get all the PT he can stand if he can maintain that defensive focus.

Cook - Under control. Made good decisions. Will only get better and find his groove.
Cant wait to see what the next few weeks bring.

[greybeard]

I'll stick by my original assessment that he reminds me of a taller Nolan Smith. He's going to be very good. Well, he's already pretty good. But I think he's going to be VERY good.

Mason looked MUCH better offensively last night than he did against GSU. Curry was unstoppable at times. With Sulaimon and Kelly able to add scoring punch as well, we are going to be very tough to beat - especially once we get Marshall back to add frontcourt depth.

Yes. Very much yes. I should really stop here, but I'll allow myself two short add ons.

There was also things about Sheed last night that remind me of Michael Jordan, the way he looked while exploring avenues to get to the basket, and then went when he saw something. Didn't matter to me that he didn't make them in the first half. They were dangerous and the Kentucky players knew it. Very important. Also something about his carriage. Smith, at his stage, seemed to relish physical challenge.

Mason, it seems is "MUCH better offensively" period, and knows it. I cannot believe his game away from the basket. He brings to the court, not with the classic "look of determination," but with the soft glare of the Tiger. Those moves, those well timed cuts, catches, and creative finishes, that bank shot, those foul shots, I'm more than impressed.

Not so short. Now there's a surprise.

Oh, my apologies CDu. I trust that you know that I didn't mean a word of it.

[kdavis]

I was particularly happy to see Mason go 4 for 4 from the line. A confident Mason at the free-throw line could be a key late in the game as the season progresses.

[Lar77]

I thought it was clear that Coach K was playing experience v athletic ability, keeping Murphy and Jefferson out.
Hairston (josh, not PJ) is a beast. Last year he would show it occasionally, but was inconsistent. Last night he stepped it up and maybe he'll keep going (I always look for the Zoub moment).
Not having Marshall available probably hurt us more than Kentucky not having Harrow. When he comes back, I am hoping that he can ramp up quickly to take pressure off from quick fouls.
Does anyone else think Nerlens hairdo looks like Bart Simpson?

MSU looks like they will be a force as the year progresses.

[mr. synellinden]

Apologies if this has been posted already, but here is Andy Katz's take on the game (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/67065/curry-takes-ownership-for-blue-devils), with a focus on the performance of Curry and what his ability to lead and create shots from the guard position means for this team. He discusses all four teams that were part of the Classic and reaches this conclusion:

Duke is still the most intriguing of the four.

[Kedsy]

I agree that UK is nowhere near as good as last are but who are the real contenders? Indian had a huge melt down last year, Louisville was a fluke, Ohio State lost Sullinger, NC State.... Man this year is going to be interesting.

Of course anything can happen, and Kentucky does have a lot of talent. But before Kentucky's championship last season, what chance would you have given to a team with as little experience as Kentucky has this season?

Last year's Kentucky team had Jones, Lamb, and Miller. The 2011 KY team had Liggins, Miller, and Harrelson. The 2010 KY team had Patterson, Liggins, and Miller. So all three of those teams had one senior and three NBA players with experience playing decent minutes for Cal. Heck, even the Fab Five Michigan team had four juniors with starting or good minute experience. This year's Kentucky team has sophomore Wiltjer, sophomore transfer Harrow, and Mays, who I guess is a senior but had never played a minute at KY before this season after washing out at NC State and being decent but not great at Wright State.

Teams with this little experience are much more likely to lose an early round game to a mid-major than they are to make a Final Four. Last year's KY team bucked the trend because they just had so much talent (and still may not have won if Jones hadn't unexpectedly returned for his sophomore season), but to my eyes this year's KY team doesn't resemble last season's champions in any meaningful way.

[mattmcbreen]

My biggest gripe was when he took out Sheed and put in TT on Poythress. I would have put Amile on Poythress during that stretch but K has always shown trust in TT.

I wasn't happy with TT being put on Poythress, but I'm not sure we could have put anyone on him that wouldn't have been overmatched. He would have bullied Amile, as Amile is still undersized for the 4 spot. I think once Amile puts on some weight he'll be capable of taking on guys like that, but TT did a serviceable job. Gotta tip my hat to Poythress, that guy is a MONSTER

[CDu]

I wasn't happy with TT being put on Poythress, but I'm not sure we could have put anyone on him that wouldn't have been overmatched. He would have bullied Amile, as Amile is still undersized for the 4 spot. I think once Amile puts on some weight he'll be capable of taking on guys like that, but TT did a serviceable job. Gotta tip my hat to Poythress, that guy is a MONSTER

Poythress wasn't typically at PF. He was at SF (Wiltjer was the primary PF). That's the reason Thornton and Sulaimon were guarding Poythress most of the time.

Now, Poythress still had ~30-40lbs and more leaping ability, so it's still possible that Jefferson was overmatched. But I think the real reason was that Thornton and Sulaimon were doing enough (and Poythress wasn't forcing the issue enough) that we stuck with the extra ballhandler on the other end.

[CDu]

Not so short. Now there's a surprise.

Oh, my apologies CDu. I trust that you know that I didn't mean a word of it.

No sweat. I'm tough, I can take it. :)

I apologize for my jabs as well.

[mo.st.dukie]

Poythress wasn't typically at PF. He was at SF (Wiltjer was the primary PF). That's the reason Thornton and Sulaimon were guarding Poythress most of the time.

Now, Poythress still had ~30-40lbs and more leaping ability, so it's still possible that Jefferson was overmatched. But I think the real reason was that Thornton and Sulaimon were doing enough (and Poythress wasn't forcing the issue enough) that we stuck with the extra ballhandler on the other end.

And Thornton has been through those types of big time atmosphere against big time team type of games before (most notably Kansas and @UNC last year). Sulaimon was playing so well on offense with his ball handling and scoring that it would've been difficult to not have him on the floor.

[azzefkram]

Great game against a top 10/15 team. If Quinn, Seth and Rasheed can continue to play at this level, I, for one, have raised my expectations for this team.

[CDu]

Mason, it seems is "MUCH better offensively" period, and knows it. I cannot believe his game away from the basket. He brings to the court, not with the classic "look of determination," but with the soft glare of the Tiger. Those moves, those well timed cuts, catches, and creative finishes, that bank shot, those foul shots, I'm more than impressed.

Yes, he looked great in a wide spectrum of areas on offense last night. He was confident with the ball on the post, making good decisions attacking the basket and in kicking out to shooters when his shot wasn't open. He made some good cuts supporting our guards' drives, resulting in some easy buckets. And when he got the ball in deep, he was crafty in putting up a successful layup even at odd angles. He even made a nice drive in which he dribbled past/over a reaching Polson to draw a foul. It was a very determined, confident, impressive effort. I want more and more of that.

In fact, I loved what all three seniors did. Curry was just ridiculous down the stretch, with his hesitation dribbles, scoop shots, head fakes, leaners, and floaters. He abused everyone who tried to guard him (Mays, Goodwin, Polson, and Poythress all took turns failing to stay in front of him), and even negated Noel's shotblocking presence effectively. I hope his leg holds up, because he's going to have a great year if it does.

Kelly didn't shoot well last night (nor did he shoot great in the opener against GSU). But he was huge defensively on Wiltjer. Wiltjer is a catch-and-shoot guy who clearly isn't comfortable handling the ball more than a second or so. If he has space to catch and shoot, he's deadly. But Kelly never affording Wiltjer that space, and on the rare times that Wiltjer tried to force the action, Kelly swatted him. It was a matchup of somewhat similar players, and it was one that we needed to win. And Kelly won it decisively in my opinion.

Someone linked Andy Katz's article about last night's games. It is worth a read. Katz hits the nail on the head that these three seniors lead the team (they scored our first 28 points last night!), which lifts our floor. But our younger guys (Sulaimon, Cook, Murphy, Jefferson, and Marshall) give us quite a bit of room to grow this year as well. It should be fun.

[Cameron]

The difference in this game during winning time: Seth Curry. He played exceptionally, far surpassing my preseason expectations for him as an on-court leader, and he did it on a bum leg to boot. Really gutsy performance. He netted 23 points on 7-for-14 shooting, hitting 3 of 5 from downtown. Those are All-American numbers against a team like No. 3 Kentucky. They may be young, but in March, this Kentucky team will be right there with Duke vying for another banner. Seth was in complete command of the game for the Blue Devils as UK mounted its furious surge, never backing down and going blow for blow with the Wildcats' perimeter attack and even challenging the UK giants in the low post with a variety of deep jump shots, leaners and up-and-unders, a dizzying array of baskets that served to stem the tide. He was playing h-o-r-s-e out there, and it was lovely. A sixth man he is not. Sometimes it's good to be wrong.

And Seth's backcourt mate, Rasheed Sulaimon, the kid is going to be a dynamite Devil in the coming years. Rasheed is a solid defender, but also a gifted shooter who will one day put serious points on the board for Duke, and he showcased that talent with three consecutive daggers from beyond the arc to put the Cats on their heels. You know what this kid's got? The cool factor. He's as poised a freshman as we've had at Duke in a long while (sans Kyrie), knowing exactly what it is he wants to do on the court while remaining in complete control of his actions. The anthises of the Austin Rivers of last November. He's still got a lot to work on, but Rasheed's got the "it" factor and that's a promising sign for a freshman two games into his career.

Once Mason Plumlee started demanding the ball and going right at Noel, it was over. Mason was the best player in the dome. And, as ESPN analyst and former coach at my alma mater (Bowling Green State University) Dan Dakich said during the 24 Hour Tip-Off event, Mason can be one of the best players in the entire country and compete for a NPOTY trophy. He's really looking good. Keep at it, big fella.

[Billy Dat]

It was an extremely satisfying early season win. I think greybeard commented about it being the best a Duke team has looked in some time. I agree, and there's still a lot we can improve. Beating a higher ranked Cal-coached UK squad with a bunch of lottery picks feels really great.

Many of my feelings about the game have been echoed by others - this felt like Curry's best game ever, he was such an in-control leader making few to any mistakes and huge play after play, Mason played great throughout - even with the fouls, Hairston's minutes were a revelation, Rasheed's poise reminds me of a freshman Grant Hill, Kelly's defense was stellar, the team defense was really good, Cook looked comfortable and confident, we really played team ball.

A couple of other thoughts:

-For the first 5 minutes, I thought their athleticism was going to dominate the game. We couldn't get anything going on offense. Credit to Curry and Mason for staying cool and keeping the pressure on Kentucky.

-I think I was more impressed with Nerlens Noel then most others on the board. I thought the kid was a dominant presence. He was making it really tough for Mason to operate and was really making guys think when they brought it into the lane. I thought he played with great poise, too, and he nailed a lot of free throws. I felt like Poythress was benefiting from the attention Noel was drawing on the glass, but I didn't go back and study that aspect.

-I thought Cal could have played a Noel/Franken-Stein duo more and we would have had a lot of trouble with it. I am glad the kid was sitting, when they were both in it felt like a sea of white around the rim.

-We have a lot of upside when it comes to Ryan Kelly on offense. He has looked nothing like himself on that end of the court. When he gets that part of his game going, we're going to be able to kick into a higher gear. We also failed to finish 3-4 plays around the rim that we normally would.

-After our stagnant offensive start, Mason grabbed a big board and scored in the lane and got fouled, or maybe he just got fouled, and Cook screamed in satisfaction and forearmed him in the chest. It was an important early moment and I was glad to see Cook recognize it and emphasize it.

-I was an Austin Rivers fan, but the team looks a lot more TEAM-like with him gone.

-Even geniuses can improve, and I refer to K's management of big men foul trouble. He was a maestro at shipping Mason and Ryan in and out to keep them in the game for crucial points. Maybe he watched tape of the 2004 Final Four loss to UConn and said, "Never Again!"

-It was a great, great win for a team still very much finding itself. It feels like our ceiling is higher than I thought, but it is just one game. I am really looking forward to the tournament in the Bahamas and hope we find ourselves in some more marquis match-ups. I also hope we play Kentucky a bunch more times while K and Cal roam the sidelines.

[Kedsy]

Will Duke use a 8-9 man rotation? I'm still hoping, but we gotta have some doubts at the moment.

Yeah, every year we fans say "this is the year he has to lengthen the rotation" and every year we're wrong. Last night, on November 13, if Mason didn't get in foul trouble, we would have only had 6 guys playing double-figure minutes. I think there's a decent shot that one of Alex, Amile, Marshall, or Josh will settle into a role where they consistently get 10+ minutes, and hopefully two. But by the time ACC season rolls around I predict a fair amount of the DBR bandwidth will be spent on the clamoring for either Alex or Amile (or both) to get onto the court.

[75Crazie]

And as for Mason, can't ask him to play much better than that.
I for one can ask for him to play smarter. That fourth foul was a freshman play, and at a terrible time. He's gotta be smarter than that, we need him to be available the whole game, particularly when his backup is injured. Until Marshall is able to contribute, he has to learn how to play effectively while controlling his foul situation -- something he didn't particularly have to worry about when Miles was around.

[g-money]

A few quick takes on the game:

- Mason looked like a lottery pick out there.

- Is it just me, or did Quin Cook have more drive & dish and post-entry passes last night than our entire team did last year? (Ok, I may be irrationally exuberant here.) Anyway, it is great to have a true point guard back on the court. And his demeanor looked great.

- Pothyress is a beast

- Overall, I think this year's team has the potential to go far in March

[pfrduke]

Poythress wasn't typically at PF. He was at SF (Wiltjer was the primary PF). That's the reason Thornton and Sulaimon were guarding Poythress most of the time.

Now, Poythress still had ~30-40lbs and more leaping ability, so it's still possible that Jefferson was overmatched. But I think the real reason was that Thornton and Sulaimon were doing enough (and Poythress wasn't forcing the issue enough) that we stuck with the extra ballhandler on the other end.

It's also worth mentioning that defense isn't just a one-on-one proposition. As an individual matchup, Jefferson v. Poythress might be more desirable. But (even without looking at how we want to do things on the offensive side of the ball), as a unit, the defense may have been better with Thornton or Sulaimon on the floor. Thornton, in particular, has much more experience with dealing with rotations, when/how to help, etc.

[gumbomoop]

Curry was just ridiculous down the stretch, with his hesitation dribbles, scoop shots, head fakes, leaners, and floaters. He abused everyone who tried to guard him (Mays, Goodwin, Polson, and Poythress all took turns failing to stay in front of him), and even negated Noel's shotblocking presence effectively. I hope his leg holds up, because he's going to have a great year if it does.

Time will tell whether last eve was just one of those in-the-zone-in-every-way games for Seth, or whether he's substantially improved, even with a questionable leg. I think his handle is the key, and last eve it just looked so much better than last year. He's always had a pretty good handle, but last eve it was superb, allowing him the confidence to do the stuff CDu lists here. Among the several possible keys to the season: Seth's leg, handle, confidence, mischievous smile [symbol, for me, of his knowing he probably can't be stopped from getting his shot].

[CDu]

Yeah, every year we fans say "this is the year he has to lengthen the rotation" and every year we're wrong. Last night, on November 13, if Mason didn't get in foul trouble, we would have only had 6 guys playing double-figure minutes. I think there's a decent shot that one of Alex, Amile, Marshall, or Josh will settle into a role where they consistently get 10+ minutes, and hopefully two. But by the time ACC season rolls around I predict a fair amount of the DBR bandwidth will be spent on the clamoring for either Alex or Amile (or both) to get onto the court.

Agree completely. That said, it's amazing how quickly the discussion has changed from "Murphy getting 25+ mpg" to "Murphy maybe not being in the main rotation."

When Marshall gets healthy, I expect he'll see most of Mason's backup minutes. It appears as though Hairston will probably see most of Kelly's backup minutes (though perhaps Jefferson can cut into things there). I expect Mason and Kelly to average 30+ mpg, though, so neither of the two reserves is likely to average more than 8-12 mpg.

That leaves the 120 perimeter minutes to be divided among 6 players (Cook, Thornton, Curry, Sulaimon, Murphy, and Jefferson. Curry will get as many minutes as he can handle for reasons that should be obvious last night. Sulaimon isn't likely to get squeezed either. So we're talking ~50-60 minutes for the other 4 guys, and I doubt the minutes get distributed equally.

I expect to see the 3 seniors getting 30+ mpg each, Sulaimon getting close to 30, and then 2 other guys getting 15+ mpg. Then, a couple of guys will average around 8-10. In close games, though, CoachK will push the seniors' minutes as close to 40 as they can handle, and we'll probably trim to a 7 man rotation (with an 8th guy getting spot minutes, and the 7th guy not seeing a ton of minutes either).

[jimsumner]

I got a few answers to my internal questions:

Who's our All-American? Maybe both Seth and Mason.

Is Rasheed a rare Duke freshman ready for high-level college competition? Hell, yes!

Can Quinn Cook play effectively at the point? Yes. I am not sure he can be dominant, but I thought he played very well at times.

Will Josh earn his minutes? Yes.

Will K be afraid to use a three-guard lineup against bigger teams? Nope -- not this year, not ever.

Will Tyler be relegated to the bench in favor of more talented players? Nope -- he'll get his minutes all season long.

Is Calipari rebuilding or reloading? Rebuilding. UK has only 3-4 front line players, all of whom are freshmen. The big hyphen is a big question mark, and I have never been sold on Ryan Harrow. Last year his two freshmen stars would have started in the NBA -- much better than anyone on this team.

And some uncertainties.........

Will Alex and Amile make major contributions this year? Maybe not, but I am not giving up hope.

Can Ryan be an All-ACC performer? Maybe, but he didn't show as much as I hoped against Kentucky, although his defense was good.

Will Duke use a 8-9 man rotation? I'm still hoping, but we gotta have some doubts at the moment.

sagegrouse

I would agree with everything here except the implication that it is rare for a Duke freshman to be ready for high-level competition. I suppose "rare," "ready," and "prime-time competition" are somewhat subjective. But just since 2000, Jason Williams, Carlos Boozer, J.J. Redick, Luol Deng, Greg Paulus, Josh McRoberts, Jon Scheyer, Kyle Singler, Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers were wall-to-wall starters as freshmen, while Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon, Daniel Ewing, Shelden Williams, DeMarcus Nelson, Gerald Henderson, Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee averaged between 15 and 25 mpg as freshmen.

Doesn't seem all that rare to me.

[ChillinDuke]

Yeah, every year we fans say "this is the year he has to lengthen the rotation" and every year we're wrong. Last night, on November 13, if Mason didn't get in foul trouble, we would have only had 6 guys playing double-figure minutes. I think there's a decent shot that one of Alex, Amile, Marshall, or Josh will settle into a role where they consistently get 10+ minutes, and hopefully two. But by the time ACC season rolls around I predict* a fair amount of the DBR bandwidth will be spent on the clamoring for either Alex or Amile (or both) to get onto the court.

know*

:rolleyes:

- Chillin

[NSDukeFan]

And Thornton has been through those types of big time atmosphere against big time team type of games before (most notably Kansas and @UNC last year). Sulaimon was playing so well on offense with his ball handling and scoring that it would've been difficult to not have him on the floor.

I don't know if Alex and Amile will get big minutes in the Battle of Atlantis games, as I think coach K trusts Tyler in big games and doesn't yet have that with the freshmen. I am hoping that Amile and Alex (and Marshall) get a good opportunity in the next game and the December games, if they don't get a chance to play big minutes in the Battle for Atlantis. I expect the tournament games will be very tough, competitive games that coach K will be playing his best guys to get the win (not that he doesn't in any game) in the tournament, though hopefully Amile, Alex and Marshall will have some great practice time so that they force the coaching staff to play them. I think this was simply a case of coach K playing his best guys to get a big early season win. It sure was fun to watch.

[sagegrouse]

I would agree with everything here except the implication that it is rare for a Duke freshman to be ready for high-level competition. I suppose "rare," "ready," and "prime-time competition" are somewhat subjective. But just since 2000, Jason Williams, Carlos Boozer, J.J. Redick, Luol Deng, Greg Paulus, Josh McRoberts, Jon Scheyer, Kyle Singler, Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers were wall-to-wall starters as freshmen, while Mike Dunleavy, Chris Duhon, Daniel Ewing, Shelden Williams, DeMarcus Nelson, Gerald Henderson, Lance Thomas and Mason Plumlee averaged between 15 and 25 mpg as freshmen.

Doesn't seem all that rare to me.

Jim, you are probably right. I would argue, however, that the cupboard was bare in 2000, 2003 and 2007, and new guys HAD to play. Although no doubt JWill would get minutes in any year, some of the others would not have. But still, that leaves quite a few who did start as freshmen.

sage

[jimsumner]

Jim, you are probably right. I would argue, however, that the cupboard was bare in 2000, 2003 and 2007, and new guys HAD to play. Although no doubt JWill would get minutes in any year, some of the others would not have. But still, that leaves quite a few who did start as freshmen.

sage

Couldn't we just as easily make a case that Sulaimon is filling a niche left open by the loss of Rivers and Dawkins?

Don't get me wrong. I think Sulaimon is a very good player on the way to becoming an elite player. But most of the players K has recruited at his level have been ready to contribute as freshmen.

[Cameron]

Yeah, every year we fans say "this is the year he has to lengthen the rotation" and every year we're wrong. Last night, on November 13, if Mason didn't get in foul trouble, we would have only had 6 guys playing double-figure minutes. I think there's a decent shot that one of Alex, Amile, Marshall, or Josh will settle into a role where they consistently get 10+ minutes, and hopefully two. But by the time ACC season rolls around I predict a fair amount of the DBR bandwidth will be spent on the clamoring for either Alex or Amile (or both) to get onto the court.

You are right.

However, I keep looking at next year's roster and, if all of the pieces fall into place and they look like they very well might, in 2013-14 Coach K will face the toughest test he has had in over a decade if he intends on sticking with just a seven man rotation.

G Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton
G Andre Dawkins, Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones
SF Rodney Hood, Alex Murphy
PF Jabari Parker, Amile Jefferson
C Marshall Plumlee

And that's not even factoring in Semi Ojeleye and Josh Hairston. If there really is such a thing as an embarrassment of riches, then we should all be mortified. I don't care if Kentucky is signing the entire Ronald McDonald House, if that Duke roster holds true, we are going to be straight stacked. Like '99, it will be banner or bust.

[timmy c]

2942

Offense looked good -52.6%eFG
Mason was drawing the double team and finding the open shooters. Seth was able to get his shot off from behind the line or get into the lane with the floater. Great job!

Defense was adequate.
52.9% eFG against a team without its starting point guard isn’t anything to get excited about. The guards kept UK from driving into the lane at will, however, the smaller lineup gave up too many 2nd chance dunks at the rim particularly to Poythress.

Duke won the turnover battle 8-13!!!!
Curry –0, Kelly -0, Sulaimon – 0, Hairston -0, Thornton -1, Cook -2, Mason -5
This is where Duke’s maturity showed up. I don’t mind Mason’s 5 turnovers because he was getting the ball on a regular basis. If he can bring that number down, it makes this Duke team very dangerous.

Offensive rebounds 11-9 Duke.
This is huge considering the overall length disadvantage. As many have already said, Josh’s two 2nd chance buckets in the 2nd half were huge!

68% FT.
Mason 4-4!!! Kelly 1-4???

[Kedsy]

You are right.

However, I keep looking at next year's roster and, if all of the pieces fall into place and they look like they very well might, in 2013-14 Coach K will face the toughest test he has had in over a decade if he intends on sticking with just a seven man rotation.

G Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton
G Andre Dawkins, Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones
SF Rodney Hood, Alex Murphy
PF Jabari Parker, Amile Jefferson
C Marshall Plumlee

And that's not even factoring in Semi Ojeleye and Josh Hairston. If there really is such a thing as an embarrassment of riches, then we should all be mortified. I don't care if Kentucky is signing the entire Ronald McDonald House, if that Duke roster holds true, we are going to be straight stacked. Like '99, it will be banner or bust.

Well, I see you snuck Jabari Parker in there (and I realize you said "if all the pieces fall into place"), but he's far from a lock. I toyed with the idea of saying in my last post that, really, 2013-14 is definitely going to be the year when K expands his rotation (and then add some sort of banal smiley face), but decided against it. Nonetheless, you're absolutely right it's going to be tough not to play at least an 8 or 9 man rotation with that roster, especially if we do get Jabari.

However, considering we don't know for sure if Andre will play and we don't know at all if Jabari will come to Duke, and the team will only have one center and possibly zero proper-sized PFs, and while we all think Quinn and Alex and Amile will be ready for prime time certainly by next season, we could all be wrong, and who knows if Matt Jones (currently #20 in the RSCI) will be ready to be a major contributor... I don't think I'd go to "banner or bust" just yet.

[NSDukeFan]

I for one can ask for him to play smarter. That fourth foul was a freshman play, and at a terrible time. He's gotta be smarter than that, we need him to be available the whole game, particularly when his backup is injured. Until Marshall is able to contribute, he has to learn how to play effectively while controlling his foul situation -- something he didn't particularly have to worry about when Miles was around.

The fourth foul wasn't a smart play, though he realized it and tried to get out of the way a bit too late. I think he is allowed to make the odd mistake though, especially on a night where he is dominating the inside against a 7-footer with potential, a potential lottery pick at SF and a potential #1 pick defending him. Going into the game, I was concerned that the team's best player (Mason) would have trouble scoring inside, especially after he didn't look particularly smooth, even as he was dominant in the Georgia State game. Boy, was I wrong. Mason looked like an all-American post player that would not be denied and at no point did I feel that UK had a better inside game. Mason has often played very well against top level talent (see Robinson, T., Sullinger, J., Zeller, T., and Henson, J.) but he has never looked as smooth and as sure of his moves as he did last night, in my opinion. I can't say enough about how much I enjoyed his game last night.

[stickdog]

Great points about K not solidifying lineups until much later in the season. I bolded the above because I am having trouble seeing how Tyler really gave us a better option last night than Alex (or Amile). 6'1" 190lb TT guarding 6'8" 240lb Poythress was a nightmare and reminiscent of Barnes and Thornton last year. I don't think anyone can effectively argue that Tyler gives us significantly more than Alex on offense right now either. Murphy runs the fast break very well and has shown to be a very capable rebounder, both offensively and defensively. \

I agree with the statement that Alex looked scared last night in his 2 minutes, but why wouldn't he be? He started all three exhibition games and then gets a DNP in his first real game against Georgia State. When he finally is able to get in the game he is pulled after 2 minutes. I wouldn't have any confidence either if I was put in that situation.

Before I get hammered for questioning K, let me end with the disclaimer that I am very aware he is superior to me in every basketball (and possibly many other) way fathomable. I really just wanted to state my opinion on it and then hear from you all.

Coach K put Murphy in the game as his very first sub at the 15:14 mark of the first half. At this point of the game, the score was 5-5. 15 second later, Murphy's man (Poythress) dunked and the score was 7-5 UK. 98 seconds later, Poythress shed Murphy for an easy layup, and the score was 13-7 UK. UK outscored Duke 8-2 in Murphy's 2:09 of play.

I think after that point, Coach K decided to go with what was working. Murphy's size and strength weren't slowing down Poythress. In fact, Poythress scored his first 4 points, all at the hoop, during the 2:09 Murphy was covering him. Poythress' scoring pace with Murphy covering him works out to 67 points in 36 minutes of play.

I hope Murphy will get extended minutes to work out some of the kinks in Duke's next game.

[Big Pappa]

This is an excerpt from an article by Laura Keeley who covers Duke for the News and Observer:

"While Murphy was in, he was absolutely schooled by Poythress, who dunked over him and Plumlee. Murphy came out shortly thereafter. I mentioned in the preview post that Krzyzewski wants Murphy to play with more confidence. And, in his short opportunity, Murphy didn’t do that. With him buried on the bench and Rodney Hood (along with incoming recruits Semi Ojeleye and Matt Jones) looking for playing time on next year’s team, don’t be shocked if Murphy opts to transfer from Duke before the second semester. That way, he would be able to play—actually play—half of next season somewhere else."

You can find the full article here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/postgame-thoughts-from-dukes-75-68-win-over-kentucky#storylink=cpy

I think Laura does a great job of covering Duke and I think that her bringing up Murphy transferring is a very valid point. It is the primary reason I have advocated for his playing time on this board quite a bit. It is VERY early, but I think this has to be considered as a legitimate concern.

[moonpie23]

jalen rose's eye flinches every time he says "duke"....

[Cameron]

Well, I see you snuck Jabari Parker in there (and I realize you said "if all the pieces fall into place"), but he's far from a lock. I toyed with the idea of saying in my last post that, really, 2013-14 is definitely going to be the year when K expands his rotation (and then add some sort of banal smiley face), but decided against it. Nonetheless, you're absolutely right it's going to be tough not to play at least an 8 or 9 man rotation with that roster, especially if we do get Jabari.

However, considering we don't know for sure if Andre will play and we don't know at all if Jabari will come to Duke, and the team will only have one center and possibly zero proper-sized PFs, and while we all think Quinn and Alex and Amile will be ready for prime time certainly by next season, we could all be wrong, and who knows if Matt Jones (currently #20 in the RSCI) will be ready to be a major contributor... I don't think I'd go to "banner or bust" just yet.

All valid points. You obviously never know.

With that said, even with Jabari Parker still unsigned and seemingly one of the worst problem-solvers ever (:)), the fact that he eliminated Kentucky so early in the process really makes me believe, perhaps falsely or just optimistically, that he really is going to stay true to his word and select a college experience that offers not only high-profile athletics but also elite academics. As has been pointed out here before, he's no Eric Bledsoe (god bless his tiny head), who, I think another poster here indicated, went to college to become a ballroom dancer (or was it a superhero? Can never remember what career paths they are offering UK's players these days). And of all Jabari's remaining choices, with regard to duel threat schools that offer prestige both on the hardwood and in the lecture hall, Duke and Stanford stand above the rest. And I think we can all agree that he probably isn't going to be living in Palo Alto next year.

As for Andre Dawkins, if we are to take his parents' words for it, and that's all we can really go on at this point, they each say that Andre loves Duke, always has and always will. It's been his dream to play basketball in Cameron Indoor Stadium since he was a boy and that's what he came to Durham to do. If we are to believe that as the truth -- and again, perhaps I am just being overly optimistic, which would be rare, as I am normally as upbeat as Sylvia Plath -- then I think we will see Andre in a Blue Devil uniform again. At least that's my hope. The kid is a champion, plays with a smile as bright as the sun, and is one of the most menacing shooters to ever do his thing in the ACC.

To your point about not having a proper-sized PF, that is certainly an item I considered. The loss of Ryan Kelly will be massive, no less significant, IMO, than the day Kyle Singler packed his bags. With Jabari Parker in the mix, though, as my previous post hinges on, I think K will find a way to make it work.

But I could be way off. Hope not.

[wilko]

I think Laura does a great job of covering Duke and I think that her bringing up Murphy transferring is a very valid point. It is the primary reason I have advocated for his playing time on this board quite a bit. It is VERY early, but I think this has to be considered as a legitimate concern.

You are right! Laura does do an bang-up job. I've had a few twitter conversations with her and asked if there was a "Story" or this was speculation on her part... The reply was: ‏"@laurakeeley - story now is that K is hesitant to play him and its hard to see where more playing time will come from" seems like speculation.

Color me an uninformed outsider - but it seems odd to sit out for a transfer year after sitting out for a red-shirt year. I think that he is being challenged to beat out Josh Hairston as 1st reserve off the bench. No gifts. Murphy's gotta take the opportunities he given!

Its always struck me that Duke doesn't mollycoddle anyone. No one is holding your hand to success. Trial by fire to find your identity, and once you have it they (team & staff) amplify it and make it burn bright... but you 1st have to find it on your own.. but again color me an uninformed outsider looking in.

[Kedsy]

To your point about not having a proper-sized PF, that is certainly an item I considered. The loss of Ryan Kelly will be massive, no less significant, IMO, than the day Kyle Singler packed his bags. With Jabari Parker in the mix, though, as my previous post hinges on, I think K will find a way to make it work.

But I could be way off. Hope not.

Please don't misunderstand me. I think next season has the potential to be a great one. Especially if Jabari wears Duke blue, I fully expect K to "find a way to make it work." And Andre is one of my favorite players and I very much hope we get to see him play another season for the Blue Devils.

Having said that, I didn't think it was "banner or bust" in 1999, and I don't think next year's cast will be nearly as good as the 1999 team was. I expect us to be a Final Four contender, but mostly I just plan to enjoy the ride.

[stickdog]

This is an excerpt from an article by Laura Keeley who covers Duke for the News and Observer:

"While Murphy was in, he was absolutely schooled by Poythress, who dunked over him and Plumlee. Murphy came out shortly thereafter. I mentioned in the preview post that Krzyzewski wants Murphy to play with more confidence. And, in his short opportunity, Murphy didn’t do that. With him buried on the bench and Rodney Hood (along with incoming recruits Semi Ojeleye and Matt Jones) looking for playing time on next year’s team, don’t be shocked if Murphy opts to transfer from Duke before the second semester. That way, he would be able to play—actually play—half of next season somewhere else."

You can find the full article here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/postgame-thoughts-from-dukes-75-68-win-over-kentucky#storylink=cpy

I think Laura does a great job of covering Duke and I think that her bringing up Murphy transferring is a very valid point. It is the primary reason I have advocated for his playing time on this board quite a bit. It is VERY early, but I think this has to be considered as a legitimate concern.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but if Murphy transferred at this point, wouldn't he lose a year of eligibility under the 5 years to complete 4 seasons rule?

[-bdbd]

I got a few answers to my internal questions:

Who's our All-American? Maybe both Seth and Mason.

Is Rasheed a rare Duke freshman ready for high-level college competition? Hell, yes!

Can Quinn Cook play effectively at the point? Yes. I am not sure he can be dominant, but I thought he played very well at times.

Will Josh earn his minutes? Yes.

Will K be afraid to use a three-guard lineup against bigger teams? Nope -- not this year, not ever.

Will Tyler be relegated to the bench in favor of more talented players? Nope -- he'll get his minutes all season long.

Is Calipari rebuilding or reloading? Rebuilding. UK has only 3-4 front line players, all of whom are freshmen. The big hyphen is a big question mark, and I have never been sold on Ryan Harrow. Last year his two freshmen stars would have started in the NBA -- much better than anyone on this team.

And some uncertainties.........

Will Alex and Amile make major contributions this year? Maybe not, but I am not giving up hope.

Can Ryan be an All-ACC performer? Maybe, but he didn't show as much as I hoped against Kentucky, although his defense was good.

Will Duke use a 8-9 man rotation? I'm still hoping, but we gotta have some doubts at the moment.

sagegrouse

"Ditto" to Sage's lessons learned. It was a great early-season win. But I also felt like there was a lot more upside to that KY team than our Devils. I won't want to play them again in March, once they've learned not to play like frosh, and to play together better. Our team provided a clear lesson on the value of experience and having played together for a long time. I just hope that we can continue to develop and grow as a team - I worry about our pattern of often peaking too early.

A couple added loose thoughts:
- I thought K somewhat outcoached Cal. See point 2, below. K sure knows how to milk the minutes of foul-burdened players. But a better-coach opponent - think like MSU - would have gone right at Mason more once the fouls started mounting.
- Given how Poythress - damn, I wish we'd kept recruiting this admitted "childhood Duke fan" - was outplaying RS and TT on KY's O-end, I was sorta astonished that Cal didn't do more to get Poythress the ball on the blocks. The longer he loitered out in that corner with TT "patrolling" the lane against him, I just cheered.
- I was surprised that we didn't see more of Jefferson, as he seemed the logical matchup vs Poythress.
- It sure looks like Mason is going to have a monster year, which should put at least one more fork in those silly stereotypes about Duke big men just setting picks. W/O foul trouble I think he goes for 25 last night!
- Noel needs some maturity and poise. He has tremendous potential, but went for fakes and, importantly, was caught out of position repeatedly. How does a team with that sort of size and athleticism get so thoroughly outrebounded on the O-glass?!?
- Mason can actually make free-throws... Wahoo. All the K talk of this being "his" year seems to have accomplished the goal of making him more confident, and demanding the ball in the crunch. He REALLY looked good, and I think he learns going forward about those silly fouls.
- My wife was laughing at me "talking back to the TV," especially after Calimari's classless "flopping" complaint at the half.
- There's going to be teams/matchups where we can't use the 3-guard lineup so much, and so we eventually will really need to have Murphy or Amile develop and earn more PT.

[NSDukeFan]

"Ditto" to Sage's lessons learned. It was a great early-season win. But I also felt like there was a lot more upside to that KY team than our Devils. I won't want to play them again in March, once they've learned not to play like frosh, and to play together better. Our team provided a clear lesson on the value of experience and having played together for a long time. I just hope that we can continue to develop and grow as a team - I worry about our pattern of often peaking too early.

A couple added loose thoughts:
- I thought K somewhat outcoached Cal. See point 2, below. K sure knows how to milk the minutes of foul-burdened players. But a better-coach opponent - think like MSU - would have gone right at Mason more once the fouls started mounting.
- Given how Poythress - damn, I wish we'd kept recruiting this admitted "childhood Duke fan" - was outplaying RS and TT on KY's O-end, I was sorta astonished that Cal didn't do more to get Poythress the ball on the blocks. The longer he loitered out in that corner with TT "patrolling" the lane against him, I just cheered.
- I was surprised that we didn't see more of Jefferson, as he seemed the logical matchup vs Poythress.
- It sure looks like Mason is going to have a monster year, which should put at least one more fork in those silly stereotypes about Duke big men just setting picks. W/O foul trouble I think he goes for 25 last night!
- Noel needs some maturity and poise. He has tremendous potential, but went for fakes and, importantly, was caught out of position repeatedly. How does a team with that sort of size and athleticism get so thoroughly outrebounded on the O-glass?!?
- Mason can actually make free-throws... Wahoo. All the K talk of this being "his" year seems to have accomplished the goal of making him more confident, and demanding the ball in the crunch. He REALLY looked good, and I think he learns going forward about those silly fouls.
- My wife was laughing at me "talking back to the TV," especially after Calimari's classless "flopping" complaint at the half.
- There's going to be teams/matchups where we can't use the 3-guard lineup so much, and so we eventually will really need to have Murphy or Amile develop and earn more PT.
Some great points, but I have a minor disagreement with your last statement. I very much hope we see a lot more of both Alex and Amile this year, but if the team could use the 3 guard lineup last night vs. Poythress, I don't know that there are a lot of teams with more size at the big wing spot that would force Duke to go bigger.

[Highlander]

Re: Cal's comment - I think it was directed at a play that occurred right before halftime when a UK player was called for an offensive foul for pushing off at the top of the key. I don't recall who was involved in the play, but there was definitely some embellishment on our part to sell the call. However, I saw this call as a bit of a makeup call for Curry? getting hammered on his 3 point attempt the previous play. As a result of the call, we got the last shot of the half and were essentially guaranteed a lead going into halftime.

Now, that being said, Curry got called for the exact same push off earlier in the game, so I don't think Calipari has any room to complain. And K's comeback to him was just pure genius.

[rocketeli]

This is an excerpt from an article by Laura Keeley who covers Duke for the News and Observer:

"While Murphy was in, he was absolutely schooled by Poythress, who dunked over him and Plumlee. Murphy came out shortly thereafter. I mentioned in the preview post that Krzyzewski wants Murphy to play with more confidence. And, in his short opportunity, Murphy didn’t do that. With him buried on the bench and Rodney Hood (along with incoming recruits Semi Ojeleye and Matt Jones) looking for playing time on next year’s team, don’t be shocked if Murphy opts to transfer from Duke before the second semester. That way, he would be able to play—actually play—half of next season somewhere else."

You can find the full article here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/postgame-thoughts-from-dukes-75-68-win-over-kentucky#storylink=cpy

I think Laura does a great job of covering Duke and I think that her bringing up Murphy transferring is a very valid point. It is the primary reason I have advocated for his playing time on this board quite a bit. It is VERY early, but I think this has to be considered as a legitimate concern.

I'm sure Murphy is a great kid and all, and I wish him all the best at Duke in all his endeavors, but that said, if he can't cut the mustard and get off the bench, then who cares if he transfers? It seems sometimes we react to transfers like we got dumped by a significant other--but transfers happen all the time, and mostly because of PT. It's not a failure on the part of a team or a player. Like the old saying --if you go to a shoe store and try on a shoe and it doesn't fit--that does not mean there is something wrong with the shoe, or your foot--it just wasn't a good fit. If Murphy is not a good enough basketball player (and frankly I think that fact that he is caucasian may have intrigued more than a few posters) to play significant minutes at Duke--I would be happy for him if he found a better fit in a place he can contribute.

[Kewlswim]

I'm not 100% sure about this, but if Murphy transferred at this point, wouldn't he lose a year of eligibility under the 5 years to complete 4 seasons rule?

Hi,

I believe he would have 2 seasons left with no redshirt available, unless he transferred before Christmas break. I want to add this and I hope it does not sound too harsh: The kids who have transferred from this program (not counting the ones who were told to leave for academic reasons, I am strictly referring to basketball reasons here) who have found success elsewhere (and I might be off a kid or two) are few and far between.

I also want to add (and this could be a smoke screen because guys can always act like they are happy, etc and then pull out) that he was a great team-mate last night. Going to play somewhere else would be tantamount to saying, "I can't cut it at Duke."

We want kids to be superstars right out of the gate. Some kids are like wine and take a little more time. In life we all run our own races. Let Alex run his. There is no secret here, Coach K isn't telling Alex one thing and doing another. He wants Alex to earn his minutes both in practice and once in a game too. He can't practice like a fiend and then taper off during a game. I think it will all click. Maybe it won't be this season?

I have no idea if Alex even likes Duke, but he has sat out a full year. Most kids who do that show some love/like of the program and school. I think it is wrong to immediately jump to "he will transfer" as soon as a kid does not play as much as we think he should. I sometimes have to bite my tongue in this area too. I want Alex to succeed and so I get antsy when he isn't in the fray.

GO DUKE!

[English]

Some great points, but I have a minor disagreement with your last statement. I very much hope we see a lot more of both Alex and Amile this year, but if the team could use the 3 guard lineup last night vs. Poythress, I don't know that there are a lot of teams with more size at the big wing spot that would force Duke to go bigger.

Not to pile on to the agreement but I third the game points. I take a slight exception to the 'if we can play a 3-guard rotation against UK, who else do we have to worry about' sentiment...Wiltjer was their 4 and he's not exactly lighting things up at the rim. If/when, in the few instances (and there are few but they're out there), that an opponent has a true 4 and a prototypical college 3, it may be tough to match Kelly with a low block 4 and throw one of our guards on the opposition's swing man. I'm thinking something in the MSU mold with Nix, Payne, Dawson. That's an example fresh in my mind and not likely to be the norm, but we'll face a few of those squads.

[English]

Re: Cal's comment - I think it was directed at a play that occurred right before halftime when a UK player was called for an offensive foul for pushing off at the top of the key. I don't recall who was involved in the play, but there was definitely some embellishment on our part to sell the call. However, I saw this call as a bit of a makeup call for Curry? getting hammered on his 3 point attempt the previous play. As a result of the call, we got the last shot of the half and were essentially guaranteed a lead going into halftime.

Now, that being said, Curry got called for the exact same push off earlier in the game, so I don't think Calipari has any room to complain. And K's comeback to him was just pure genius.

You might be right about that being the impetus, although as you say, Curry got dinged for the same call. My initial impression was it may have been the play where Hairston came out to hedge on a UK guard and when the guard made a jab fake and changed direction away from Hairston 35 feet from the basket, Hairston hesitated and then went down. It looked odd, and he likely lost his footing. I thought he was going for the Ofoul.

Either way, completely bogus statement from an out coached snake-oil salesman. To be fair, if I was a HS recruit and was looking for every advantage in a highly competitive game, I'd like to think I would incorporate some of the lessons to be learned from the Blue Devils for drawing charges. As Cal said, it's as good as a turnover.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Is it me or does this Alex transferring thing just seem ludicrous? We've played two games. We have no idea really why he got no run in the first game and such limited run against KY. He's still a freshman really. I just find it amazing that we can't even wait until mid season to start talking about transfers. I mean, I guess since we won last night and are 2-0, we gotta look for something negative to talk about around here right?

[NSDukeFan]

Not to pile on to the agreement but I third the game points. I take a slight exception to the 'if we can play a 3-guard rotation against UK, who else do we have to worry about' sentiment...Wiltjer was their 4 and he's not exactly lighting things up at the rim. If/when, in the few instances (and there are few but they're out there), that an opponent has a true 4 and a prototypical college 3, it may be tough to match Kelly with a low block 4 and throw one of our guards on the opposition's swing man. I'm thinking something in the MSU mold with Nix, Payne, Dawson. That's an example fresh in my mind and not likely to be the norm, but we'll face a few of those squads.

I agree with the hope that Amile and Alex will provide more size on the wing, but Dawson is not nearly as long as Poythress so I don't see why the staff would be scared to go small against MSU, or anyone else, if they did vs UK.

[NSDukeFan]

Is it me or does this Alex transferring thing just seem ludicrous? We've played two games. We have no idea really why he got no run in the first game and such limited run against KY. He's still a freshman really. I just find it amazing that we can't even wait until mid season to start talking about transfers. I mean, I guess since we won last night and are 2-0, we gotta look for something negative to talk about around here right?

It's not just you.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm sure Murphy is a great kid and all, and I wish him all the best at Duke in all his endeavors, but that said, if he can't cut the mustard and get off the bench, then who cares if he transfers?

I do.

Alex is part of the Duke family and has been working with the Team for a year-plus. Two games into the season, and folks are bringing up this garbage?

Everyone runs his own race. Alex may contribute in a big way this year. He may contribute in a small way down the road. Whatever it is, I support him and hope he sticks it out.

Not to single you out -- I have seen a few of these over the years and it really gets my goat. Let the kid develop, and I hope he continues to trust that he will grow into a great player by the time he finishes. Here.

[mr. synellinden]

I'm sure Murphy is a great kid and all, and I wish him all the best at Duke in all his endeavors, but that said, if he can't cut the mustard and get off the bench, then who cares if he transfers? It seems sometimes we react to transfers like we got dumped by a significant other--but transfers happen all the time, and mostly because of PT. It's not a failure on the part of a team or a player. Like the old saying --if you go to a shoe store and try on a shoe and it doesn't fit--that does not mean there is something wrong with the shoe, or your foot--it just wasn't a good fit. If Murphy is not a good enough basketball player (and frankly I think that fact that he is caucasian may have intrigued more than a few posters) to play significant minutes at Duke--I would be happy for him if he found a better fit in a place he can contribute.

Yeah, but imagine if Elliot Williams transferred at this point in his freshman year. Or Nolan Smith. Sometimes it takes a half a season or a season for a player to make the adjustment to college basketball. Murphy has potential, and I hope he believes that Duke and Coach K give him the best opportunity to realize it.

[53n206]

Transfer talk not only makes no sense but may be counterproductive. He's young. Sometimes takes a little time. 2 games? Hope he's not aware of this thread.

[roywhite]

Transfer talk not only makes no sense but may be counterproductive. He's young. Sometimes takes a little time. 2 games? Hope he's not aware of this thread.

Yeah, seems inappropriate and waaay premature at this point. Sorry to see Laura Keeley discuss it in the N&O.

I can recall some previous Duke players who struggled early in their careers, and then became quite productive. Sometimes it seemed like a bit of stage fright. Reports would come in that they practiced well, but seemed tentative and apt to freeze when put into games. Going back, Wojo and Kevin Strickland, for examples, did not seem like they would be good ACC players, but made excellent contributions.

My theory with Murphy is that he is a bit rusty in terms of competition. Sat out last year, and hasn't seen much game competition since high school in Rhode Island.

Is it possible he won't be an impact player now or anytime soon? Yes, but let's be a bit patient.

[elvis14]

I'm sure Murphy is a great kid and all, and I wish him all the best at Duke in all his endeavors, but that said, if he can't cut the mustard and get off the bench, then who cares if he transfers?

This is a really bad post and I really don't like the sentiment. Oh, and *I* care.


I do.

Alex is part of the Duke family and has been working with the Team for a year-plus. Two games into the season, and folks are bringing up this garbage?

Everyone runs his own race. Alex may contribute in a big way this year. He may contribute in a small way down the road. Whatever it is, I support him and hope he sticks it out.

Not to single you out -- I have seen a few of these over the years and it really gets my goat. Let the kid develop, and I hope he continues to trust that he will grow into a great player by the time he finishes. Here.

This is a really good reply to that really bad post. Thanks OldPhiKap.

[English]

I agree with the hope that Amile and Alex will provide more size on the wing, but Dawson is not nearly as long as Poythress so I don't see why the staff would be scared to go small against MSU, or anyone else, if they did vs UK.

You're absolutely right. It was the first example of a true college prototype 1-5 team (that could challenge us) that floated to mind. It's rare in college these days. My only point was, like yours, that ideally Murph and Amile will have the coaching staff's and their own confidence to come in and perform. UNC and NCSU have some length that could cause a small 3-guard lineup some headaches. We play both twice.

I cannot emphasize enough how pleased I was with Hairston and TT last night, despite admittedly tempered expectations. Throwaway here, but I was excited to see QC provide some great transition play.

[greybeard]

A few quick takes on the game:

- Is it just me, or did Quin Cook have more drive & dish and post-entry passes last night than our entire team did last year? (Ok, I may be irrationally exuberant here.) Anyway, it is great to have a true point guard back on the court. And his demeanor looked great.


Yeap, but I'd leave out the "true point guard" stuff, and give some love to the team generally for getting it inside to Mason. A couple of other observations about Cook and how Duke played when he was on the court. I liked that he often gave it up on passses of some length to the wing just as he was crossing or had crossed half court. Play had more of a snap to it, felt very aggressive and sharp. Cook and Sheed were great toying on the dribble with going to the rim and then getting rid of it, after compressing the defense. Very effective addition to the offense. Duke got out on the break some when Cook was in, and Cook looked real good leading it.

Great to see Cook being Cook. There's more. Very impactful.

[Indoor66]

He always is...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-o9J4lmsqkZo/TZDtCeuzh0I/AAAAAAAAAnI/4t43ceZpkIs/s200/remote_mute_button_fig1.jpg

I thought that Vitale was the least irritating I have seen in years. He actually talked about the game on TV most of the time.

[greybeard]

I for one can ask for him to play smarter. That fourth foul was a freshman play, and at a terrible time. He's gotta be smarter than that, we need him to be available the whole game, particularly when his backup is injured. Until Marshall is able to contribute, he has to learn how to play effectively while controlling his foul situation -- something he didn't particularly have to worry about when Miles was around.

Agreed that there were a couple of fouls that I'm sure Mason would want back, especially the reach-in. But, come on, he had plenty to handle at both ends, and did. Exceptionally. Everyone seemed to play all out last night, like men who had nothing to lose. They brought it as individuals and as a team. Who defends like that while playing with four, especially for extended minutes, especially when you are the Man your team can least afford to lose? On offense, banking it from fourteen without a moment's hesitation, reverse layup, slides to the basket, catches in traffic, terrific finishes, foul shots. Kentucky's front court, very formidable. Mason outplayed each of them and then some. Yes, he impressed the heck out of me.

[drcharl]

Re: Cal's comment - I think it was directed at a play that occurred right before halftime when a UK player was called for an offensive foul for pushing off at the top of the key. I don't recall who was involved in the play, but there was definitely some embellishment on our part to sell the call. However, I saw this call as a bit of a makeup call for Curry? getting hammered on his 3 point attempt the previous play. As a result of the call, we got the last shot of the half and were essentially guaranteed a lead going into halftime.

Now, that being said, Curry got called for the exact same push off earlier in the game, so I don't think Calipari has any room to complain. And K's comeback to him was just pure genius.

Think you are right on the play referenced. One of the first segments on the ABC national news tonight was Diane Sawyer on "flopping". Of course they started out with the play above from the Duke-Kentucky game and then went on to some really extreme flopping scenes from the NBA with some commentary from David Stern. The NBA versions of flopping were far more extreme than anything in the game last night. Had to chuckle at the final flopping scene from a European soccer match where one player grabs the opponents fist and punches himself in the face with it following by dropping to the ground. I guess if Cal comments about anything it can make the national news.

[sporthenry]

Is it me or does this Alex transferring thing just seem ludicrous? We've played two games. We have no idea really why he got no run in the first game and such limited run against KY. He's still a freshman really. I just find it amazing that we can't even wait until mid season to start talking about transfers. I mean, I guess since we won last night and are 2-0, we gotta look for something negative to talk about around here right?

It isn't that crazy. I know technically Murphy is a "Freshmen" but it is his 2nd year in the program. Many 2nd year players transfer now to get the most of their eligibility. Olek transferred before Christmas and Pitt just had a Sophomore Guard transfer after not playing in 2 games. I'm sure there are tons of other examples as well but most people usually stay on until they realize they aren't going to play of which Murphy could be in very soon.

[mattmcbreen]

-I thought Cal could have played a Noel/Franken-Stein duo more and we would have had a lot of trouble with it. I am glad the kid was sitting, when they were both in it felt like a sea of white around the rim.


I think Cal had to steer away from that for a few reasons. One, when both of them are on the floor it put a lot of pressure on Cat's perimeter plays to pick up the offensive slack. Two, whenever a shot was going up in the paint, both Noel and Cauley-Stein were going up for shot blocks instead of just the one. That led to some good opportunities for offensive rebounds and putbacks. As the season goes on those two will be deadly on the defensive end of the floor, but last night I think the inexperience on shot defense was apparent.

[mattmcbreen]

Hi,

I believe he would have 2 seasons left with no redshirt available, unless he transferred before Christmas break. I want to add this and I hope it does not sound too harsh: The kids who have transferred from this program (not counting the ones who were told to leave for academic reasons, I am strictly referring to basketball reasons here) who have found success elsewhere (and I might be off a kid or two) are few and far between.

I also want to add (and this could be a smoke screen because guys can always act like they are happy, etc and then pull out) that he was a great team-mate last night. Going to play somewhere else would be tantamount to saying, "I can't cut it at Duke."

We want kids to be superstars right out of the gate. Some kids are like wine and take a little more time. In life we all run our own races. Let Alex run his. There is no secret here, Coach K isn't telling Alex one thing and doing another. He wants Alex to earn his minutes both in practice and once in a game too. He can't practice like a fiend and then taper off during a game. I think it will all click. Maybe it won't be this season?

I have no idea if Alex even likes Duke, but he has sat out a full year. Most kids who do that show some love/like of the program and school. I think it is wrong to immediately jump to "he will transfer" as soon as a kid does not play as much as we think he should. I sometimes have to bite my tongue in this area too. I want Alex to succeed and so I get antsy when he isn't in the fray.

GO DUKE!

I agree with this 100%. Remember Nolan Smith when he was an underclassmen? There were talks that he couldn't handle the pressure and that he should transfer. But he blossomed into a scorer and an eventual ACC POY. Give Alex some time, he'll grow into a Duke player

[ncexnyc]

Some thoughts on last night’s game.
Mason has made tremendous strides on the offensive end of the floor. The improvement we saw in his free throw shooting at the end of last year has continued into this year. While he isn’t an elite defender he’s decent enough to hold his own against the run of the mill college big man.

Seth played very well. He was quite aggressive taking the ball to the hoop when the opportunity presented itself. Will he be able to do this night in and night out? That is the question he needs to answer. A number of people downplayed what Poythress did last night against drastically smaller players, so I only think it’s fair to mention that Seth being a fifth year Senior took advantage of a Freshman who doesn’t have a reputation as a stellar defender.

Ryan looked good. He aggressively looked for his shot, especially when Mason went out of the game. I loved what he did on the defensive end as well. He had several blocks and having a solid frontline with two bonafide shot blockers will make the opposition think twice when going to the rim.

Rasheed lived up to his billing. A very good defensive player who was capable of slashing to the hoop, as well as draining the 3 pointer. The part about him being a streaky shooter was also apparent last night. This kid is definitely ready to be a primetime player.

Quinn had a decent game last night. Nothing spectacular, but very solid. He’ll get better as the season progresses and he gets more playing time with the rest of the team.

Josh brought a lot of energy to the game. If he continues to do this for the team, perhaps the Crazies will have to start chanting, “Release the Kraken.”

Tyler had a really quiet game. Being matched against Poythress wasn’t exactly a recipe for success.

Alex got on the court, but only managed to get abused by Poythress. So far he isn’t living up to his billing and instead of Kyle 2.0, it’s more like Silent G 2.0. Hopefully things will work out for Alex as we desperately need a wing with his size.

Amile was another player who only managed a walk-on last night. I can’t get to upset about this as nobody seemed to be counting on him for very much at the start of the season. Again, this is a young man who can provide us with some much needed length.

For the moment this team is thin on the frontcourt and hopefully this will sought itself out with the return of Marshall as well as the improved play of both Alex and Amile.

I believe we’re solid at the guard positions.

[cspan37421]

I do.

Alex is part of the Duke family and has been working with the Team for a year-plus. Two games into the season, and folks are bringing up this garbage?

Everyone runs his own race. Alex may contribute in a big way this year. He may contribute in a small way down the road. Whatever it is, I support him and hope he sticks it out.

Not to single you out -- I have seen a few of these over the years and it really gets my goat. Let the kid develop, and I hope he continues to trust that he will grow into a great player by the time he finishes. Here.

Excellent post. My sentiments - almost exactly. Add this, though, too: injuries happen and why wouldn't you want him ready to contribute should it become necessary or desirable?

[sporthenry]

I'm not 100% sure about this, but if Murphy transferred at this point, wouldn't he lose a year of eligibility under the 5 years to complete 4 seasons rule?

Yes, but if he transfers now, he has 3.5 years to compete while if he waits the whole season, he'll only have 3 years left. There is also the tricky hardship waiver which could be implemented if Murphy were to get another injury or a family member becoming sick. Sadly, this seems to have been abused in recent years so he could very well have a 6th year of eligibility.

I think many students transfer now b/c games in November/December don't matter as much and if they realize they'll be on the pine, they'll be wasting 1/2 year anyways so might as well try to save it.

[verga]

Murphy has that lost look, i'm not impressed but hope he can adjust and get some time.

[Kedsy]

As Cal said, it's as good as a turnover.

Well, it's not "as good as" a turnover. An offensive foul is a turnover.

[Kedsy]

Yes, but if he transfers now, he has 3.5 years to compete while if he waits the whole season, he'll only have 3 years left.

I don't think this is quite right. He began in Fall of 2011. That means he has until the 2015-16 season (five years) to finish his four years of eligibility. If he were to transfer now and sit out a year, he would have either 2 or 2.5 years to compete (not 3 or 3.5), depending on exactly when he were to transfer. That's a big impediment, and I agree with those who have said it's too early to talk about this.

[greybeard]

Calipari's comments when he left the court were in response to the usual "what do you have to do different" question. His answer was quite remarkable--he said that the five flops were laughable and would not have been charges in the Pros. This ain't the pros, Mr. Cal. Oops, you forgot for a second your usual schtick, "well, I'm just doing what the rules permit." What the rules permit is one-and-done in college, which is supposed to be less about making a product that sells than the pros.

I happen to think that "flops" often serve a useful purpose, particularly since refs often convert blatent charges into defensive fouls. Sometimes, on anything close or if you cannot afford to put yourself in the hands of poor judgments by referees, better to get out of the way by flopping early when there is no other escape route. Is there a feigned attempt or three to draw an unwarrented foul in many games involving all teams. Perhaps, but I think less than is complained about. The lack of enforcement of rules that exist or, at least once did, invite flopping as a protective meaure.

Leaning all over and/or pushing post up players away from the basket used to be a foul, not some nuanced call depending on how many hands or whether a forarm was used or not. To counterbalance this now sanctioned smothering and pushing contact by defenders, driving a shoulder or chest squarely into the defender's chest was always an offensive foul, period. Inside players now do so all the time with immunity, and, if a judgment call is made, it almost always goes their way. The result, summo wrestling and aggressive contact on both sides of the ball. If you want to avoid "flopping," stop making inside play into summo wrestling.

Ditto for allowing reckless drives at out of control speed to the rim by strong exterior players who look to "make contact" (still against the rules, I believe) to create seperation and often simply to draw a foul. are wanting to avoid foul trouble, flopping on those "muscle not a play-on of judgment call. judgment call or a defensive foul. No longer.

Tex Winter was asked, once that I know of, whether the court should be expanded to provide more room to maneuver near the basket. he replied, I will use quotes but am only paraphrasing, "No. All they need to do is enforce the ones that already exist. They provide that, if there is meaningful contact, a foul was committed by the initiator." I should add that we would not see nearly the number of outside penetrations and finishes at the rim if guards who can shoot were not allowed to hold the ball in suspended animation, which forces the defender to freeze least what looks like a cross over be open to a step back killer. When they continue to move into a dribble there has to be a walk, in addition to a carry.

The consequence of all this, Hopson's choices. You get great position and get nailed, you get good position and give way as the collusion begins; you hold your ground and give way sooner to avoid any call at all without stepping out of the way, which is an unseemly option, all but impossible to choose. Except for the getting-nailed option, which, by the way, announcers always call "heroic" or some such, the other two options give rise to whinning about "all this flopping." But, hey, dynamic finishes at the rim are what draws the fans, and we just can't have inside scoring by the bigs be so easy, or that other big money maker, the long, long threes, what would become of them?

I'm with Tex.

[OldPhiKap]

I suggest that everyone mail Cal a small packet of sour grapes for him to suck on.

Coach John Calipari
c/o UK Athletics
Joe Craft Center
338 Lexington Ave.
Lexington, KY 40506-0604


2946

[Billy Dat]

I'm sure Murphy is a great kid and all, and I wish him all the best at Duke in all his endeavors, but that said, if he can't cut the mustard and get off the bench, then who cares if he transfers? It seems sometimes we react to transfers like we got dumped by a significant other--but transfers happen all the time, and mostly because of PT. It's not a failure on the part of a team or a player. Like the old saying --if you go to a shoe store and try on a shoe and it doesn't fit--that does not mean there is something wrong with the shoe, or your foot--it just wasn't a good fit. If Murphy is not a good enough basketball player (and frankly I think that fact that he is caucasian may have intrigued more than a few posters) to play significant minutes at Duke--I would be happy for him if he found a better fit in a place he can contribute.

I agree that rocketeli could have phrased his point better. I took it to mean, and I agree with the sentiment, that if a kid decides to transfer away from Duke, we shouldn't view it as the end of the world. Players have to do what they think is right for them. A faction of the board often responds to transfers as if there is something broken in the program.

All that being said, it is clearly too early to talk about Murphy leaving, despite the fact that the N&O piece gave the story life. I hope Alex finds a way to get on the court, help the team in games, and fulfill his potential.

[75Crazie]

Leaning all over and/or pushing post up players away from the basket used to be a foul, not some nuanced call depending on how many hands or whether a forarm was used or not. To counterbalance this now sanctioned smothering and pushing contact by defenders, driving a shoulder or chest squarely into the defender's chest was always an offensive foul, period. Inside players now do so all the time with immunity, and, if a judgment call is made, it almost always goes their way. The result, summo wrestling and aggressive contact on both sides of the ball. If you want to avoid "flopping," stop making inside play into summo wrestling. I'm with Tex.
Well said.

[OldPhiKap]

Well said.

or as we used to call it, "Big East Basketball"

Time was, the ACC was known as a touch foul league. Now, everyone mauls under the basket. Not sure if it is better or worse, but way different.

[MChambers]

Well said.

I concur. Great post.

[gumbomoop]

Kelly's defense on Wiltjer was key. If he gets going, it's a very different game.


Kelly played Wiltjar tough with a bit of an edge, a just short of nasty, and with the smarts he brings to the game. He was in his grill and didn't let the kid breath. Made some great steals, and still had the ability to make a few off the ball blocks. Very impressive. Kelly usually depends much more often just on his smarts. This let the kid know that this was a whole different game, on a whole different level, that he only thought he was ready for. Great performance, in my opinion.

Several of us have commented re Kelly's defense on Wiltjer, but I'll tag quote these two as strong statements with which I and many others agree. Just to add to how impressive Ryan's D was, a couple of additional points. Ryan and Wiltjer played almost exactly the same number of minutes, and I'm pretty sure were matched with each other virtually the whole game. It's been noted that Wiltjer got a mere 5 points from a mere 5 shots, but it's actually a little worse. As I re-watched the game, I saw that one of Wiltjer's shots was that wide-open dunk-layup at the 8:52 mark of 2d half, after Noel stole a weak pass from Quinn toward Mason. Of course that counts as a shot, and 2 points, but it was one of those irritating flubbed plays where the opponent gets a guaranteed 2 [save for the occasional thunder-dumb]. So actually Wiltjer got off only 4 real, contested shots, and zero FTs. That's very "tough, edgy, in his grill" D, and if not the, certainly a big key to the win.

Which leads me to ask, as I cannot remember: was Ryan's D clearly more consistent and tough last year than his O? I'm pretty sure his O was inconsistent, sometimes up, a few other times way down in disappearance territory. And although I noticed that he was a sneaky shot blocker, I just don't have a clear memory as to his overall D-consistency. Help.

[Jderf]

Which leads me to ask, as I cannot remember: was Ryan's D clearly more consistent and tough last year than his O? I'm pretty sure his O was inconsistent, sometimes up, a few other times way down in disappearance territory. And although I noticed that he was a sneaky shot blocker, I just don't have a clear memory as to his overall D-consistency. Help.

Ryan's D is a topic that does not seem to get a lot of air time, and when it does, it usually seems to be in a somewhat negative light. I always thought this was a bit unfair, because it seemed to me that Ryan's D was mostly just okay. But if you really want to do justice to the topic, I think you have to recognize that Ryan's defense varies drastically depending on who he is guarding. The 4 is one of the most variable positions across the 300+ teams in Division I basketball, with many different types of forwards: from short and stocky to tall and lanky, and everywhere in-between. I think Wiltjer happened to be the perfect matchup for Ryan -- since they're so similar -- and Ryan took advantage of that defensive opportunity in a big way. Wiltjer, on the other hand, did not. But it must also be said that Ryan has struggled on occasion against both shorter/quicker PFs and taller/stronger PFs. So I guess the short answer is "it depends." This will definitely be an interesting topic to keep an eye on going forward.

[Kedsy]

Which leads me to ask, as I cannot remember: was Ryan's D clearly more consistent and tough last year than his O? I'm pretty sure his O was inconsistent, sometimes up, a few other times way down in disappearance territory. And although I noticed that he was a sneaky shot blocker, I just don't have a clear memory as to his overall D-consistency. Help.

In my opinion, Ryan's D has been unfairly criticized on this board and elsewhere. His positioning is good and his defensive footwork is sound and he's able to guard "big" a lot stronger than people gave him credit for. I don't have any reservations if he has to defend an opposing center. And he's always been an excellent shotblocker, especially on the help side. What Ryan doesn't have is amazing quicks. So, he can be beaten off the dribble on a switch, and he might lose a quick SF (or SF-type playing PF) on a backdoor cut, and that's what people remember. Wiltjer isn't super-quick, and he's not super-strong either, so he's more or less the perfect player for Ryan to guard and guard well.

[wilko]

or as we used to call it, "Big East Basketball"

Time was, the ACC was known as a touch foul league. Now, everyone mauls under the basket. Not sure if it is better or worse, but way different.

I hate hate HATE this as well. Not a fan of Basket-brawl.

As long we allow the dribble and the courts side and end-lines, the floor and its boundaries dictate that basketball be a game of positioning and spacing. If we ditch the position argument to allow a charge, then whats to stop a fullback sized player from scattering opposing post players like bowling pins? In essence a battering ram. So THATS potentially less injurious? I don't buy it.

I guess part of the discussion should be "How do you like your basketball?"
Not all basketball players are athletes and not all athletes are basketball players. Its great when they are one in the same, but that not always the case.

Do you believe that the game should be an aerial ballet played above the rim? OR do you appreciate actual "game skills" that many young athletes don't yet possess? When I watch, the things I appreciate and relate to the most are the things I could see myself doing.

Take our own Ryan and Seth. I could see myself being more like them... using experience and game nuance to run the table like Minnesota Fats. Release, english, variety of releases points in the shot, arc changes and balance.

I could never dream of doing what Miles and Mason do day in day out. Its an alien landscape and 1st person narrative i cant identify with...

I can appreciate both styles. I think BOTH are necessary for the health of the game!
I would hate for one school of thought to overpower the other. And I think in the court of public opinion this is shifting in that direction.

I think the main gripes of the charge are:
It typically stops an athletic offensive play.
It forces the official to make a decision.
*** 3rd Duke is usually good at it so it must be bad...

To point 3 - I guess it feels like holding on a touchdown run for the offense.... folks wanna get to the Rah-rah and ignore the process. But if holding were to become the NORM we'd have a very different game of football.
I fear we'd have a very different game of basketball as well if we tinker with this too much.

The remedy for avoiding the charge is deceptively simple.... pull up quicker for the shot or make a pass...
I don't see the big deal personally.

It's not like its causing concussions or something more severe and damaging.

[Dukeblue91]

Is it me or does this Alex transferring thing just seem ludicrous? We've played two games. We have no idea really why he got no run in the first game and such limited run against KY. He's still a freshman really. I just find it amazing that we can't even wait until mid season to start talking about transfers. I mean, I guess since we won last night and are 2-0, we gotta look for something negative to talk about around here right?

No You are not alone in this not only that, I think that this should not be allowed on this board as this is nothing but warmongering and unsubstantiated gossip.
This hurts us and the player in question.

On to the game.
I really liked what I saw from Duke and we can only get better from here.
Everyone, well almost everyone played a good to great game.
Mason will be the stud this year, Kelly's defense was incredible at shutting Wiltjer down and we should applaud him for this since he has been generally been criticized for his D.
Seth has added another dimension to his game, which I saw starting at the end of last year but he seemed to have worked hard on getting to the basket all summer.
Cook looked good but he can do much better and am confident that he will.
Rasheed is the real deal and will be a star on both ends of the floor and will get better with every game he plays.
Tyler T. oh why are people giving him so much crap and none of the credit he deserves?
Every game this kid does something special to help us win the game and KU game was no exception.
This time was his 2 timely free throws to spur us on and it goes like this every game wether it is a defensive stop, a needed 3 pointer, a steal or the badly needed free throws.
We all need to lay off of him and start enjoying the things he brings to this team, and is the reason why Coach K loves this kid so much.

[OldPhiKap]

No You are not alone in this not only that, I think that this should not be allowed on this board as this is nothing but warmongering and unsubstantiated gossip.
This hurts us and the player in question.

On to the game.
I really liked what I saw from Duke and we can only get better from here.
Everyone, well almost everyone played a good to great game.
Mason will be the stud this year, Kelly's defense was incredible at shutting Wiltjer down and we should applaud him for this since he has been generally been criticized for his D.
Seth has added another dimension to his game, which I saw starting at the end of last year but he seemed to have worked hard on getting to the basket all summer.
Cook looked good but he can do much better and am confident that he will.
Rasheed is the real deal and will be a star on both ends of the floor and will get better with every game he plays.
Tyler T. oh why are people giving him so much crap and none of the credit he deserves?
Every game this kid does something special to help us win the game and KU game was no exception.
This time was his 2 timely free throws to spur us on and it goes like this every game wether it is a defensive stop, a needed 3 pointer, a steal or the badly needed free throws.
We all need to lay off of him and start enjoying the things he brings to this team, and is the reason why Coach K loves this kid so much.

Preach it. On all points here.

This will be a very fun team to watch gel and grow. Very interesting mix of talents and experience. I expect the MOTM voting to be very interesting this year, as it was in the UKy game.

[Dukeblue91]

Preach it. On all points here.

This will be a very fun team to watch gel and grow. Very interesting mix of talents and experience. I expect the MOTM voting to be very interesting this year, as it was in the UKy game.

Thanks and BTW I meant to write UK not KU. :cool:

[TruBlu]

Coach K put Murphy in the game as his very first sub at the 15:14 mark of the first half. At this point of the game, the score was 5-5. 15 second later, Murphy's man (Poythress) dunked and the score was 7-5 UK. 98 seconds later, Poythress shed Murphy for an easy layup, and the score was 13-7 UK. UK outscored Duke 8-2 in Murphy's 2:09 of play.

I think after that point, Coach K decided to go with what was working. Murphy's size and strength weren't slowing down Poythress. In fact, Poythress scored his first 4 points, all at the hoop, during the 2:09 Murphy was covering him. Poythress' scoring pace with Murphy covering him works out to 67 points in 36 minutes of play.

I hope Murphy will get extended minutes to work out some of the kinks in Duke's next game.

I replayed the game, and don't believe that Murph looked as bad as some are portraying, and was not at fault for an 8 - 2 run for Kentucky. (Not trying to pick on you stickdog)

Just to clarify, the second Poythress score was after a switch on a screen, and Poythress actually scored on Sheed.

In those two minutes, there was a turnover by Mason, a missed 2 pointer by Kelly, 2 missed free throws by Ryan (after a Ryan steal), and a missed 17 footer by Hairston. None of these plays were the fault of Murph.

Incidentally, also during those two minutes, there was a Murph pass to Ryan on his missed 2 Pointer (would have been an assist if Ryan had scored), a near steal by Murph at the 14:16 mark resulting in an OOB for Kentucky, and Murph hustling for a loose ball rebound at 13:05 resulting in an OOB for Duke . . . at which point he was removed from the game.

I am not trying to say he should get ACC Player of the Week consideration, but based on those two minutes, he shouldn't be on a Kibbles and Bits diet, either. Like you stickdog, I hope Murph gets more minutes so that his contributions can improve.


On a more positive note, I had the pleasure of attending this game. Although Kentucky had far more fans, we Duke fans cheered our hearts out. However, I was somewhat disappointed that we did not have our pep band, cheerleaders, nor Blue Devil in attendance.

[Big Pappa]

No You are not alone in this not only that, I think that this should not be allowed on this board as this is nothing but warmongering and unsubstantiated gossip. This hurts us and the player in question.

I really think this is a ridiculous thing to say. There have been other talks about it, but I am the one that brought it up on this thread and linked Laura Keeley's article, so I will speak up. Are we really getting to a place on this board where we can't post articles by legitimate Duke beat writers and discuss them?

It is fine if you think it is too early to talk about it, but it is being discussed in the media and wanting to censor it from this board isn't going to make it go away.

[BD80]

... it is being discussed in the media and wanting to censor it from this board isn't going to make it go away.

You also have to stick your fingers in your ears, hold your breath and stomp your feet. Picture calipari when his player gets called for a charge ...

[-jk]

With regards to rumors: DBR has a policy prohibiting the mongering of rumors: Per the posting guidelines, the mods expect to see a source from a "legitimate, mainstream media
outlet".

After Ms Keeley published it in the N&O (insert "legitimate" joke here), the mods left the discussion open.

-jk

[DUKIE V(A)]

No You are not alone in this not only that, I think that this should not be allowed on this board as this is nothing but warmongering and unsubstantiated gossip.
This hurts us and the player in question.

On to the game.
I really liked what I saw from Duke and we can only get better from here.
Everyone, well almost everyone played a good to great game.
Mason will be the stud this year, Kelly's defense was incredible at shutting Wiltjer down and we should applaud him for this since he has been generally been criticized for his D.
Seth has added another dimension to his game, which I saw starting at the end of last year but he seemed to have worked hard on getting to the basket all summer.
Cook looked good but he can do much better and am confident that he will.
Rasheed is the real deal and will be a star on both ends of the floor and will get better with every game he plays.
Tyler T. oh why are people giving him so much crap and none of the credit he deserves?
Every game this kid does something special to help us win the game and KU game was no exception.
This time was his 2 timely free throws to spur us on and it goes like this every game wether it is a defensive stop, a needed 3 pointer, a steal or the badly needed free throws.
We all need to lay off of him and start enjoying the things he brings to this team, and is the reason why Coach K loves this kid so much.

In terms of Murphy - The kid is a stud. An NBA player without a doubt when his time comes. I had the opportunity to watch the team practice recently and hear Coach K talking about the players. He had a ton of positives to say about Murph -- all well deserved. He is really, really talented and has great size. Looking forward to seeing him develop.

In terms of Tyler -- Tyler will always find a way onto the court. He does all the dirty work and flat out makes the team better. He is nails and a bigtime glue guy. Seeing him practice and interacting with the team helped me understand better than ever how much he means to the team and why Coach K relies on him so often.

[Luther]

You are right.

However, I keep looking at next year's roster and, if all of the pieces fall into place and they look like they very well might, in 2013-14 Coach K will face the toughest test he has had in over a decade if he intends on sticking with just a seven man rotation.

G Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton
G Andre Dawkins, Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones
SF Rodney Hood, Alex Murphy
PF Jabari Parker, Amile Jefferson
C Marshall Plumlee

And that's not even factoring in Semi Ojeleye and Josh Hairston. If there really is such a thing as an embarrassment of riches, then we should all be mortified. I don't care if Kentucky is signing the entire Ronald McDonald House, if that Duke roster holds true, we are going to be straight stacked. Like '99, it will be banner or bust.

I keep forgetting about Rodney. That kid is good.

[CDu]

You are right.

However, I keep looking at next year's roster and, if all of the pieces fall into place and they look like they very well might, in 2013-14 Coach K will face the toughest test he has had in over a decade if he intends on sticking with just a seven man rotation.

G Quinn Cook, Tyler Thornton
G Andre Dawkins, Rasheed Sulaimon, Matt Jones
SF Rodney Hood, Alex Murphy
PF Jabari Parker, Amile Jefferson
C Marshall Plumlee

And that's not even factoring in Semi Ojeleye and Josh Hairston. If there really is such a thing as an embarrassment of riches, then we should all be mortified. I don't care if Kentucky is signing the entire Ronald McDonald House, if that Duke roster holds true, we are going to be straight stacked. Like '99, it will be banner or bust.

Slow down. Let's first get Jabari Parker in uniform before we start preparing the banners. And let's see if Dawkins actually returns to the courts (I think there's legitimate possibility that he's done with major college basketball.

Beyond that, I'd point out that depth isn't really the key to a championship. Top end talent is generally the key. You can get by with 2-3 stars and a 7-man rotation assuming the pieces fit together correctly. But Coach K prefers a 7-man rotation, so having 11 or 12 really good players only incrementally makes us better (especially when so many are at the same positions).

We'll be very deep at the 2-4 spots if we land Parker and no one transfers or leaves early. We'll still have question marks at PG and we'll still have only one big man. So to compare the 2014 team's title chances to those of the 1999 team is a bit too optimistic for my blood.

I think we'll be really good in 2014, especially if we get Parker. But I don't think we'll necessarily be world-beater good, and a big question will be our inside play and PG play. Remember when we had Dunleavy playing PF in 2002? That scenario could very easily repeat itself with a team just pounding us inside.

[NSDukeFan]

Slow down. Let's first get Jabari Parker in uniform before we start preparing the banners. And let's see if Dawkins actually returns to the courts (I think there's legitimate possibility that he's done with major college basketball.
I'm hoping we will have to prepare several banners before Jabari Parker gets in a Duke uniform. I am also (being optimistic) hopeful that I will again see Andre's sweet shooting form in a Duke uniform.

Beyond that, I'd point out that depth isn't really the key to a championship. Top end talent is generally the key. You can get by with 2-3 stars and a 7-man rotation assuming the pieces fit together correctly. But Coach K prefers a 7-man rotation, so having 11 or 12 really good players only incrementally makes us better (especially when so many are at the same positions).

We'll be very deep at the 2-4 spots if we land Parker and no one transfers or leaves early. We'll still have question marks at PG and we'll still have only one big man. So to compare the 2014 team's title chances to those of the 1999 team is a bit too optimistic for my blood.

I think we'll be really good in 2014, especially if we get Parker. But I don't think we'll necessarily be world-beater good, and a big question will be our inside play and PG play. Remember when we had Dunleavy playing PF in 2002? That scenario could very easily repeat itself with a team just pounding us inside.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying here in terms of depth and the fact that in big games on TV, coach K has figured out that with all the timeouts, he can keep his best players fresh enough to play most of the game. That isn't going to keep me from dreaming about Duke using its advantage of having a better 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th man than any other team in the country as they are running other teams into the ground and the bottom of the bench players keep improving and forcing their way onto the floor.

[Saratoga2]

Slow down. Let's first get Jabari Parker in uniform before we start preparing the banners. And let's see if Dawkins actually returns to the courts (I think there's legitimate possibility that he's done with major college basketball.

Beyond that, I'd point out that depth isn't really the key to a championship. Top end talent is generally the key. You can get by with 2-3 stars and a 7-man rotation assuming the pieces fit together correctly. But Coach K prefers a 7-man rotation, so having 11 or 12 really good players only incrementally makes us better (especially when so many are at the same positions).

We'll be very deep at the 2-4 spots if we land Parker and no one transfers or leaves early. We'll still have question marks at PG and we'll still have only one big man. So to compare the 2014 team's title chances to those of the 1999 team is a bit too optimistic for my blood.

I think we'll be really good in 2014, especially if we get Parker. But I don't think we'll necessarily be world-beater good, and a big question will be our inside play and PG play. Remember when we had Dunleavy playing PF in 2002? That scenario could very easily repeat itself with a team just pounding us inside.

It's looking more like Jefferson will be playing inside next year. If he can add another 15 pounds he should be a pretty good inside player. We still will need another. Will it be Alex or will coach K come up with an unexpected late pick?

[Kedsy]

It's looking more like Jefferson will be playing inside next year. If he can add another 15 pounds he should be a pretty good inside player. We still will need another. Will it be Alex or will coach K come up with an unexpected late pick?

My guess at this point is Alex, though there's so much that could happen that might change that. If we're lucky enough to have Jabari Parker, against many opponents we could probably go with three wings with Jabari guarding the other team's PF. And Josh could very well earn some decent playing time as well. I think the only time we'll be at a major size disadvantage is when Marshall takes a breather.

[Dukeblue91]

I really think this is a ridiculous thing to say. There have been other talks about it, but I am the one that brought it up on this thread and linked Laura Keeley's article, so I will speak up. Are we really getting to a place on this board where we can't post articles by legitimate Duke beat writers and discuss them?

It is fine if you think it is too early to talk about it, but it is being discussed in the media and wanting to censor it from this board isn't going to make it go away.

Big Pappa,
First let me say that this was in no way a personal attack on you and I hope that you don't take it as such.

Having said that.
The fact that you added the link to what Laura Keeley says does not legitimizes this in any way.
This was not based on any sort of inside information or any other actual fact and was a mere statement of speculation with no facts to back it up.

This board is in a somewhat unique situation with that many players, their friends and family come here to get a feel of how we as fans feel.
With such a great audience it stands to reason that it also comes with great responsibility of how we act here.
And such highly speculative things do not serve anyone or do any good.
If Laura Keeley would have come out and said that she had a reliable source close to the program or family and that this matter is under discussion I would have had no problem in discussing this.
But that just was not the case here, hence my post and view on this subject.

I hope this cleared it up for you as to why I posted this.

[overthehill]

I agree with Dukeblue91. The article from Ms. Keeley doesn't claim that Murphy is thinking about transferring. Neither does it claim that some knowledgeable source is saying that Murphy is thinking about transferring. The author simply speculates ("don't be shocked if ...") that this might be the case. Now maybe this is based on some inside info that can't be quoted, but it also could simply be her own random musings. But since we don't know, why give such speculation credence here?



Big Pappa,
First let me say that this was in no way a personal attack on you and I hope that you don't take it as such.

Having said that.
The fact that you added the link to what Laura Keeley says does not legitimizes this in any way.
This was not based on any sort of inside information or any other actual fact and was a mere statement of speculation with no facts to back it up.

This board is in a somewhat unique situation with that many players, their friends and family come here to get a feel of how we as fans feel.
With such a great audience it stands to reason that it also comes with great responsibility of how we act here.
And such highly speculative things do not serve anyone or do any good.
If Laura Keeley would have come out and said that she had a reliable source close to the program or family and that this matter is under discussion I would have had no problem in discussing this.
But that just was not the case here, hence my post and view on this subject.

I hope this cleared it up for you as to why I posted this.

[Kedsy]

I agree with Dukeblue91. The article from Ms. Keeley doesn't claim that Murphy is thinking about transferring. Neither does it claim that some knowledgeable source is saying that Murphy is thinking about transferring. The author simply speculates ("don't be shocked if ...") that this might be the case. Now maybe this is based on some inside info that can't be quoted, but it also could simply be her own random musings. But since we don't know, why give such speculation credence here?

We give plenty of credence to uninformed musings about who's in the lead at that particular moment for various recruits. What's the difference?

[Big Pappa]

This board is in a somewhat unique situation with that many players, their friends and family come here to get a feel of how we as fans feel.
With such a great audience it stands to reason that it also comes with great responsibility of how we act here.

There aren't more players, friends, and family members sifting through the DBR boards than reading Duke articles in the N&O, so this argument doesn't hold water for me. Also, if you think that discussing the possibility of a player transferring, and then calling for minutes for that player, makes him want to leave, I think you are mistaken again.

I would also refer you to this post by jk on the topic:


With regards to rumors: DBR has a policy prohibiting the mongering of rumors: Per the posting guidelines, the mods expect to see a source from a "legitimate, mainstream media outlet".

After Ms Keeley published it in the N&O (insert "legitimate" joke here), the mods left the discussion open.

-jk

My entire point by bringing it up and quoting the N&O article is for posters on this board to realize that it is being discussed in the media. The "it doesn't do any good to talk about it" argument doesn't make sense, because none of us (I hope) are naive enough to think that talking about starters and playing time does any good either. But we do it because this is a Duke message board, we are all Duke fans, and we enjoy talking about the team.

[roywhite]

My entire point by bringing it up and quoting the N&O article is for posters on this board to realize that it is being discussed in the media. The "it doesn't do any good to talk about it" argument doesn't make sense, because none of us (I hope) are naive enough to think that talking about starters and playing time does any good either. But we do it because this is a Duke message board, we are all Duke fans, and we enjoy talking about the team.

So now we're not talking about the Kentucky game, we're not really talking about Murphy and how he's progressing, we're not talking about anything definite, we're just stuck on a rumor.

Next play.

[Troublemaker]

Plus/Minus for Kentucky


+----------+------------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Out | Net |
+----------+------------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Kentucky | Rasheed Sulaimon | 33:22 | 71 | 57 | 14 | -7 | 21 |
| Kentucky | Seth Curry | 33:43 | 66 | 52 | 14 | -7 | 21 |
| Kentucky | Josh Hairston | 14:20 | 25 | 19 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Kentucky | Ryan Kelly | 34:02 | 63 | 57 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Kentucky | Quinn Cook | 29:22 | 52 | 51 | 1 | 6 | -5 |
| Kentucky | Mason Plumlee | 28:31 | 52 | 51 | 1 | 6 | -5 |
| Kentucky | Tyler Thornton | 19:41 | 34 | 34 | 0 | 7 | -7 |
| Kentucky | Amile Jefferson | 04:50 | 10 | 11 | -1 | 8 | -9 |
| Kentucky | Alex Murphy | 02:09 | 2 | 8 | -6 | 13 | -19 |
+----------+------------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

My entire point by bringing it up and quoting the N&O article is for posters on this board to realize that it is being discussed in the media. The "it doesn't do any good to talk about it" argument doesn't make sense, because none of us (I hope) are naive enough to think that talking about starters and playing time does any good either. But we do it because this is a Duke message board, we are all Duke fans, and we enjoy talking about the team.
FWIW I decided to email Laura Keeley about it. Her response was that "people who know the family" (read carefully... not THE family) are talking about it and she felt it was her job to "share information." So, I would stop far short of calling that a discussion in the media. To me, it's one blogger taking a chance at being the first to report something that essentially remains an unfounded rumor. Lame.

[Big Pappa]

FWIW I decided to email Laura Keeley about it. Her response was that "people who know the family" (read carefully... not THE family) are talking about it and she felt it was her job to "share information." So, I would stop far short of calling that a discussion in the media. To me, it's one blogger taking a chance at being the first to report something that essentially remains an unfounded rumor. Lame.

I appreciate you sharing this info about your email correspondence with Keeley, but I don't think the second half of your statement makes sense when paired with the first half. She told you that she got her information from a family friend, and yet you say that is the same thing as an unfounded rumor? I believe an unfounded rumor would mean that she has no source, hence the term "unfounded." I also think it's very unfair to call Keeley, who is the Duke beat reporter for the Raleigh N&O and the Charlotte Observer, a "blogger." I have never met her, nor do I have any association with her, but respect her or not, she is more than a blogger.

That being said, I have no problem getting back to talking about the Duke/Kentucky game seeing as this is a Post-Game Thread. DukeHoopBlog posted an excellent article, I believe written by Adam, today called Duke vs Kentucky Four Factors. It is a discussion about John Oliver's "Four Factors" and how they played into the game on Tuesday night. You can find the article here:

http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/11/17/duke-vs-kentucky-four-factors/

[DukieInBrasil]

I appreciate you sharing this info about your email correspondence with Keeley, but I don't think the second half of your statement makes sense when paired with the first half. She told you that she got her information from a family friend, and yet you say that is the same thing as an unfounded rumor? I believe an unfounded rumor would mean that she has no source, hence the term "unfounded." I also think it's very unfair to call Keeley, who is the Duke beat reporter for the Raleigh N&O and the Charlotte Observer, a "blogger." I have never met her, nor do I have any association with her, but respect her or not, she is more than a blogger.

That being said, I have no problem getting back to talking about the Duke/Kentucky game seeing as this is a Post-Game Thread. DukeHoopBlog posted an excellent article, I believe written by Adam, today called Duke vs Kentucky Four Factors. It is a discussion about John Oliver's "Four Factors" and how they played into the game on Tuesday night. You can find the article here:

http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/11/17/duke-vs-kentucky-four-factors/

Interesting formula and a decent write-up. Except that he completely ignored one of the four factors: TO%. He pondered how Duke could have won the game if they only beat Kentucky in one of the 4 components. Well, Duke CRUSHED Kentucky in TO% (<10% vs >20%), and the 2 factors KU won, they won either by very small margin (eFG% went to KU by less than 1%) or won by a couple of % (FT rate%), which FTs only count for 1pt). So, Duke had an equal eFG% but ended up having a lot more possessions due to KU's TOs and by crashing the offensive boards. Doesn't seem that hard to me to figure out how Duke won: they scored the ball at the same rate as KU, but had a lot more possessions to score on.

[English]

Interesting formula and a decent write-up. Except that he completely ignored one of the four factors: TO%. He pondered how Duke could have won the game if they only beat Kentucky in one of the 4 components. Well, Duke CRUSHED Kentucky in TO% (<10% vs >20%), and the 2 factors KU won, they won either by very small margin (eFG% went to KU by less than 1%) or won by a couple of % (FT rate%), which FTs only count for 1pt). So, Duke had an equal eFG% but ended up having a lot more possessions due to KU's TOs and by crashing the offensive boards. Doesn't seem that hard to me to figure out how Duke won: they scored the ball at the same rate as KU, but had a lot more possessions to score on.

KU = Kansas
UK = Kentucky

Still, I read the outcome and analysis the same way you did. The article overlooked 1/4 of the factors.

[timmy c]

Interesting formula and a decent write-up. Except that he completely ignored one of the four factors: TO%. He pondered how Duke could have won the game if they only beat Kentucky in one of the 4 components. Well, Duke CRUSHED Kentucky in TO% (<10% vs >20%), and the 2 factors KU won, they won either by very small margin (eFG% went to KU by less than 1%) or won by a couple of % (FT rate%), which FTs only count for 1pt). So, Duke had an equal eFG% but ended up having a lot more possessions due to KU's TOs and by crashing the offensive boards. Doesn't seem that hard to me to figure out how Duke won: they scored the ball at the same rate as KU, but had a lot more possessions to score on.

I think the blogger should have checked out my post the day after the game...


2942

Offense looked good -52.6%eFG
Mason was drawing the double team and finding the open shooters. Seth was able to get his shot off from behind the line or get into the lane with the floater. Great job!

Defense was adequate.
52.9% eFG against a team without its starting point guard isn’t anything to get excited about. The guards kept UK from driving into the lane at will, however, the smaller lineup gave up too many 2nd chance dunks at the rim particularly to Poythress.

Duke won the turnover battle 8-13!!!!
Curry –0, Kelly -0, Sulaimon – 0, Hairston -0, Thornton -1, Cook -2, Mason -5
This is where Duke’s maturity showed up. I don’t mind Mason’s 5 turnovers because he was getting the ball on a regular basis. If he can bring that number down, it makes this Duke team very dangerous.

Offensive rebounds 11-9 Duke.
This is huge considering the overall length disadvantage. As many have already said, Josh’s two 2nd chance buckets in the 2nd half were huge!

68% FT.
Mason 4-4!!! Kelly 1-4???

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I appreciate you sharing this info about your email correspondence with Keeley, but I don't think the second half of your statement makes sense when paired with the first half. She told you that she got her information from a family friend, and yet you say that is the same thing as an unfounded rumor? I believe an unfounded rumor would mean that she has no source, hence the term "unfounded." I also think it's very unfair to call Keeley, who is the Duke beat reporter for the Raleigh N&O and the Charlotte Observer, a "blogger." I have never met her, nor do I have any association with her, but respect her or not, she is more than a blogger.

Papa, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. Last thing I'll say on this subject b/c I prefer to say it hear rather than start an inappropriate thread. To be clear, I did not say family friend nor did she. She said "people who know the family." Not the family. Not friends of the family. Not even people who are close to the family. Just people... them... they. Not even enough for her to state in her blog that her information was derived from a specific or credible source. Just information. If you can call it that. I would call it rumor. Particularly two games into the season. So, there you have it.

[TruBlu]

OOPS.

I thought I was on the thread about Duke beating Kentucky a few days ago.

My computer must be broke.

[OldPhiKap]

My computer must be broke.

Link? Or is that just a rank rumor?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

We give plenty of credence to uninformed musings about who's in the lead at that particular moment for various recruits. What's the difference?

I'm guessing that the difference is that current players are member of the Duke family, and we wish to support them as fully as possible. Repeating rumors about transfers only weakens the team and the discussion surrounding it can frequently get ugly for everyone involved.

Recruiting scuttlebutt isn't any more well-founded, but it's more of excitement and prognostication instead of centering on disappointment and criticism.

/could be wrong, but that's how I see it

[Edouble]

But it must also be said that Ryan has struggled on occasion against both shorter/quicker PFs and taller/stronger PFs.

Ryan is 6'11". How often, if ever, has he guarded a 7'0" power forward with superior strength?

[nyesq83]

Ryan is 6'11". How often, if ever, has he guarded a 7'0" power forward with superior strength?

Taller than shorter PF, not taller than Ryan.

Sheesh! Pick your nits wisely.