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pfrduke
11-12-2012, 09:37 AM
Florida State's home loss to South Alabama (a team the 'Noles beat by 41 last season) turned the opening weekend into a bit of a disappointment for the conference, something that Maryland almost managed to turn around before falling short to Kentucky in Brooklyn. 9-3 is certainly below where the conference would like to be. Plenty of opportunities to turn things around in the coming week.

Before we get to the slate ahead, it's worth noting that the first pre-season tournaments start in earnest this week. Like the season before, last year was not a particularly good showing for the conference. Duke, of course, won the Maui invitational, but that was the only hardware that the ACC took home. UNC was the only other team even to make the finals of its tournament, losing to UNLV. Let's break down the entire performance:

BC was 1-2 in Anaheim, finishing 6th. Clemson was 1-2 in Honolulu, finishing 6th. Duke was 3-0 in Lahaina to win. FSU was 1-2 in the Bahamas, finishing 4th. Georgia Tech was 1-2 in Charleston, finishing 6th. Maryland was 1-2 in Puerto Rico, finishing 6th. UNC was 1-1 in Vegas (3-1 overall, if you count two home games that didn't matter for reaching the semis, which I don't). NC State was 1-1 in East Rutherford, finishing 3rd (of 4). Virginia managed to go 2-1 in the Virgin Islands, but thanks to a first-round loss to TCU finished 5th (in a tournament that Norfolk State won). The Hokies went 1-1 in the Garden, finishing 3rd (of 4). And Wake went 1-2 in Orlando, finishing 7th. To sum up, in the neutral site games, the ACC went 14-16 and had a grand total of 3 teams that finished even in the top half of the neutral court slate. Ugh. Once again, the ACC has 11 of 12 teams suiting up for pre-season tournaments (Miami sat out last year; Maryland is taking a pass this year). Hopefully the conference can get back above .500 and start putting some teams in the finals.

Let's see what's on tap for a busy week ahead:

Monday puts Clemson on the court for the first time, rounding out the ACC openers. They host a Presbyterian team that shouldn't be too much of a test (although note what the Blue Hose managed to do to Cincinnati last year around this time). FSU and UVA get their tournaments started at home. The Preseason NIT (now, officially, the NIT Season Tip-Off) at least has its opening round games count - a UVA loss to any of Fairfield, Delaware, or Penn will keep the Cavaliers from going to New York. The Coaches vs. Cancer is less strict - FSU is heading to Brooklyn to play BYU despite the loss to South Alabama in the tournament's "opening round."

[75]Clemson hosts [284]Presbyterian
[63]Florida State hosts [129]Buffalo
[74]Virginia hosts [136]Fairfield
[72]Virginia Tech hosts [268]Rhode Island
[118]Maryland hosts [170]Morehead State

Tuesday brings one of the marquee early season game not just for the conference but for the country as a whole with Duke taking on Kentucky in the nightcap of the Champions Classic in Atlanta. This is one of those neutral site games where the crowd in SEC country will not exactly be neutral (yes, I know, you could make the argument that Atlanta is technically more ACC country than SEC country given the presence of Georgia Tech, but you would be wrong). Neither team looked particularly polished in wins on Friday, but then again, it's early in the season. Virginia gets its second round PNIT game, and Miami has a road date with the Eagles of Florida-Gulf Coast.

[10]Duke vs. [3]Kentucky in Atlanta
[74]Virginia hosts [214]Penn/[115]Delaware
[44]Miami at [131]Florida-Gulf Coast

Wednesday offers a bit of a breather with Presbyterian continuing its pre-season ACC tour with a trip to Georgia Tech.

[99]Georgia Tech hosts [284]Presbyterian

Two more pre-season tournaments get underway on Thursday with NC State traveling to Puerto Rico and Boston College making its way to Charleston. To be blunt, the NCSU that wants to be a national player this year simply should win this tournament. None of the other teams in the lineup are ranked, and the kindest words anyone has for the rest of the field is that a couple of the teams "have a real shot to be on the bubble in March." BC, on the other hand, has a much more uphill battle, having to open the Charleston Classic against the favorite, Baylor. Win or lose, a second round matchup against Dayton or Colorado will put the Eagles in the underdog role as well. I hate to say it, because I want to be able to expect more out of our conference brethren, but simply staying out of the 7th place game would be a big accomplishment for BC.

[20]NC State vs. [78]Penn State in Puerto Rico
[153]Boston College vs. [15]Baylor in Charleston
[72]Virginia Tech hosts [277]Virginia Military Institute

Friday will be another full day with one more tournament getting under way (plus the "real" games starting in the Coaches vs. Cancer). For Florida State, wins over BYU and either Notre Dame or St. Joe's would make the South Alabama loss at lot easier to stomach. Wake, like BC, will be playing the role of massive underdog in its opening round game against UConn. Unlike BC, Quinnipiac and Iona represent more beatable second round opponents - for Wake, ending up in the 5th-place game is not an unreasonable expectation, even though they will still be somewhat significant underdogs against either squad (let's all pause and reflect on an ACC team being an underdog on a neutral court against teams from the Metro Atlantic and Northeast conferences - sigh). UNC stops over in Long Beach on the way to Maui in what could be a bit of a trap game. Clemson hits the road but stays in state, traveling to Furman, while Miami continues its pre-conference slate of Florida schools with a home date against Jacksonville.

[149]Boston College vs. [105]Dayton in Charleston
[16]NC State vs. [61]Massachusetts in Puerto Rico
[208]Wake Forest vs. [37]Connecticut in St. Thomas
[63]Florida State vs. [47]BYU in Brooklyn
[16]North Carolina at [114]Long Beach State
[118]Maryland hosts [141]Long Island
[75]Clemson at [264]Furman
[44]Miami hosts [240]Jacksonville

Saturday is final round play in the Coaches vs. Cancer and second round play in the USVI. UVA also steps into the slate, getting a (knock on wood) pre-NY warmup against Seattle U (newly minted member of the WAC).

[63]Florida State vs. [21]Notre Dame/[39]St. Joseph's
[208]Wake Forest vs. [103]Iona/[117]Quinnipiac*
[74]Virginia hosts [249]Seattle U

*note - Wake plays Saturday with a first round loss, or Sunday with a first round win.

Sunday gives us final round play in Puerto Rico and Charleston. I'll update these entries once we see what the slate will be. Duke also gets a pre-Atlantis warm up with Florida Gulf Coast

[15]NC State vs. [42]Oklahoma State in Puerto Rico
[159]Boston College vs. [155]Charleston in Charleston
[10]Duke hosts [131]Florida-Gulf Coast

ACC Non-Conference Record: 9-3
ACC Record vs. BCS: 0-1
Atlantic Sun: 2-0
Big South: 2-0
Colonial: 1-1
CUSA: 1-0
MAC: 1-0
SEC: 0-1
Sun Belt: 2-1

Jderf
11-12-2012, 03:55 PM
This is one of those neutral site games where the crowd in SEC country will not exactly be neutral (yes, I know, you could make the argument that Atlanta is technically more ACC country than SEC country given the presence of Georgia Tech, but you would be wrong).

Very true. The number of times I've had to hear the phrase "Catlanta" over the past couple weeks is downright absurd. We will almost certainly be significantly outnumbered in the stands.

pfrduke
11-13-2012, 08:57 PM
Ugh. UVA loses to Delaware and will not even travel to NY for the final rounds of the PNIT. And as of this post, Miami is very much about to lose to Florida Gulf Coast (down 13 with 1:21 to play.

Olympic Fan
11-13-2012, 09:24 PM
Ugh. UVA loses to Delaware and will not even travel to NY for the final rounds of the PNIT. And as of this post, Miami is very much about to lose to Florida Gulf Coast (down 13 with 1:21 to play.

Miami did lose to the Florida Gulf Coast team that Duke will play Sunday in Cameron.

Bad night for the ACC so far ... hope the Devils can save it.

Newton_14
11-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Miami did lose to the Florida Gulf Coast team that Duke will play Sunday in Cameron.

Bad night for the ACC so far ... hope the Devils can save it.


Ugh. UVA loses to Delaware and will not even travel to NY for the final rounds of the PNIT. And as of this post, Miami is very much about to lose to Florida Gulf Coast (down 13 with 1:21 to play.

Wow. I am stunned. That is just awful. Sad state of affairs. We will get killed in the Big Ten Challenge unless something drastically changes. Miami has far too much talent for this to happen.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 09:36 PM
Wow. I am stunned. That is just awful. Sad state of affairs. We will get killed in the Big Ten Challenge unless something drastically changes. Miami has far too much talent for this to happen.

This will also kill their respective RPIs and when they play Duke toughly, it won't look great for Duke. Luckily, the ACC is adding 3 of the better BE teams so we won't have to worry about the ACC not being the best basketball conference for long.

Bob Green
11-15-2012, 01:24 PM
I am very interested in seeing how State performs in Puerto Rico. Specifically, the guy I am interested in is Richard Howell as I believe he has the potential to have a monster season if he can stay out of foul trouble! Howell averaged 10.8 points and 9.2 rebounds per game last season while starting all 37 games. Assuming he has worked hard over the off season, he should be an improved player as a senior and is a guy we all should keep an eye on to have a breakout season. As I've said before, big men who average a double-double do not grow on trees.

PackMan97
11-15-2012, 02:56 PM
I am very interested in seeing how State performs in Puerto Rico. Specifically, the guy I am interested in is Richard Howell as I believe he has the potential to have a monster season if he can stay out of foul trouble! Howell averaged 10.8 points and 9.2 rebounds per game last season while starting all 37 games. Assuming he has worked hard over the off season, he should be an improved player as a senior and is a guy we all should keep an eye on to have a breakout season. As I've said before, big men who average a double-double do not grow on trees.

Staying on the court is key for Leslie as well. In addition to being somewhat foul prone (though less than Howell), Leslie had issues staying on the court late in the game due to cramping and hydration issues for much of last season. Not to mention losing Painter really hurts depth. I think Thomas de They will step up and grab some minutes, but I'm not expecting much out of Vandenburg. TJ Warren is much more of a 3/4 than a 4/5. When Howell is out, we'll really be hurting inside.

If you wanted to, you could really classify every returning player as a Sophomore in your head as this (by all accounts) is only their second season with any significant coaching.

Olympic Fan
11-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Good showing by Boston College in a loss to No. 16 Baylor. The Eagles led at the half and were still in the game with two minutes left before losing 84-74.

They still have a long way to go, but the difference between this year and last season (this time last year they were losing by 22 to Holy Cross) is amazing. Ryan Anderson is a beast and their freshman PG Oliver Hanlon is very, very good.

They are more a mid-level ACC team that a bottom feeder.

PS I think, but not sure, that soph C Dennis Clifford was sick ...

NC State is drubbing Penn State in Puerto Rico -- Warren and Purvis, the two freshmen, were their best players in the first half ... Leslie is starting to dominate in the second.

pfrduke
11-16-2012, 12:28 PM
Main post edited to update NCSU's and BC's matchups for today. Rankings for both of those games are also updated to be as of today (in the very slightly good news category, NCSU and BC both went slightly up, Dayton and UMass both went slightly down).

left_hook_lacey
11-16-2012, 01:02 PM
UNC-CH opened as a 10.5 point fav. It's now up to 11 but I'm not buying it. Carolina has looked average at best so far against less-than-average competition. Long trip out west before a big tournament, freshman-heavy team.....I smell upset. UNC might pull out a win, but I bet they don't cover. Get your popcorn ready.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/line-movement/north-carolina-@-california-state-long-beach.cfm/date/11-16-12/time/2300

This game, plus the maui tourney(I see UNC losing 1 possibly 2 out there), could really say a lot as to the direction of that team this season. Total meltdown?

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little, but unless one of the frosh, particularly Paige, grows up fast I see a long season for the Hell Dwellers.

CDu
11-16-2012, 01:15 PM
UNC-CH opened as a 10.5 point fav. It's now up to 11 but I'm not buying it. Carolina has looked average at best so far against less-than-average competition. Long trip out west before a big tournament, freshman-heavy team.....I smell upset. UNC might pull out a win, but I bet they don't cover. Get your popcorn ready.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/line-movement/north-carolina-@-california-state-long-beach.cfm/date/11-16-12/time/2300

This game, plus the maui tourney(I see UNC losing 1 possibly 2 out there), could really say a lot as to the direction of that team this season. Total meltdown?

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a little, but unless one of the frosh, particularly Paige, grows up fast I see a long season for the Hell Dwellers.

Who among the teams going to Maui do you think is better than UNC? It's not a very impressive field, as none of the others are ranked. I think it's on the optimistic side to say UNC will lose one game in Maui, let alone two.

left_hook_lacey
11-16-2012, 03:39 PM
Who among the teams going to Maui do you think is better than UNC? It's not a very impressive field, as none of the others are ranked. I think it's on the optimistic side to say UNC will lose one game in Maui, let alone two.

Well, color me optimistic then.

I don't really see any one team being a glaring challenge for UNC. I just think that 2 or 3 teams could play this team close, and given its youth, this team could very easily go out there and lay an egg.

I realize none of the other teams are ranked, but is UNC really 11th? I don't think so. Not right now anyway.


I think Texas,, Marquette and Butler could all give UNC all it wants. If UNC has a tough game at Long Beach, or even loses that game, that factors in also.

The one caveat to my optimism is that Ole Roy has been playing waaay more guys in the line-up than he plans to once the tougher teams come calling. He's been known to do that, then trim it down to the best 7-8 players or 8-9 players on deeper teams. But I don't think it's a case of him giving lots of guys some PT to get them experience for a long season, I think he's still trying to find a line-up that works. And that spells trouble for a team that young.

left_hook_lacey
11-17-2012, 12:02 AM
UNC up only 1 at half. Just sayin'.

sporthenry
11-17-2012, 12:10 AM
UNC up only 1 at half. Just sayin'.

Flicked it on and saw UNC got a Fat Albert/Sean May lovechild as a recruit. #20 player and he looks like a load so no disrespect but I'm sure the Crazies can have fun with him and hopefully they stay creative.

Olympic Fan
11-17-2012, 12:07 PM
Flicked it on and saw UNC got a Fat Albert/Sean May lovechild as a recruit. #20 player and he looks like a load so no disrespect but I'm sure the Crazies can have fun with him and hopefully they stay creative.

I'm not UNCheat lover, but I thought that after a slow start, they looked pretty good last night in a tough environment -- as Duke fans we understand what it's like on the road early in the season against a mid-level opponent ... it's their Super Bowl Game. UNC blew it open early in the second half and led by 14-20 most of the way before winning by 15. Not a great win by any means, but nothing to be ashamed of.

I agree that Meeks (UNC's new BIG man recruit) looks like tyhe Pillsbury Doughboy, but he is the No. 10 prospect in this year's class. Good get for them -- he's a much better prospect than the James kid. They can't play together, but they will be able to split 40 minutes a game in the middle.

While I wouldn't be shocked if UNC were to loose a game in Maui, I hardly think that's a lock. They are the only ranked team in the field. Some of the other big names out there are pretty down this year, including Texas, Marquette and Illinois. I'm sorry, but this isn't a vintage Butler team. I don't thinl there is a team in the field as good as Minnesota, the team we open with in the Bahamas. Certainly nobody as good as No. 17 Memphis or No. 2 Louisville, the teams we have to beat to win the title (now that I look at the polls, I see that Minnesota is getting more votes in the two polls than anybody UNC might face in Hawaii).

Let's just say that I expect UNC to win the title, but I won't rate it a great accomplishment. If they do lose, that would be a disappointment for them.

As for the rest of the ACC, a good night -- except for Boston College. I've watched both their games in Charleston and while they were fairly impressive in a loss to No. 16 Baylor, they were absolutely awful in a loss to Dayton. A very bad sign for what I thought was an improving team.

A lot of impressive wins over so-so opposition by the rest of the ACC. To me, the most impressive showing was NC State's trouncing of UMass. I watched the UMass-Providence game Thursday and it was the most impressive game I've seen early this season -- I'm not sure they weren't playing at a higher level than Duke-Kentucky or Michigabn State-Kansas. Maybe they both shot their bolts because Friday Providence lost in OT to a bad Penn State team and UMass was never in the game with NC State. Not sure if that's because of a letdown after a great win or because NC State is that great. I will say that TJ Warren is looking more and more like the best freshman -- and maybe best player -- on that Wolfpack team.

pfrduke
11-18-2012, 11:18 AM
I went and watched FSU win the Coaches vs. Cancer classic against St. Joseph's last night. Their young big men (Turpin and Bojanovsky) are, at least for now, stiffs. But their core lineup of Miller-Snaer-Brandon-White-Shannon is athletic, versatile, talented, and dangerous. Loss to South Alabama notwithstanding, this will again be a dangerous team this year.

In other news, Sunday matchups updated above.

loran16
11-18-2012, 12:06 PM
I went and watched FSU win the Coaches vs. Cancer classic against St. Joseph's last night. Their young big men (Turpin and Bojanovsky) are, at least for now, stiffs. But their core lineup of Miller-Snaer-Brandon-White-Shannon is athletic, versatile, talented, and dangerous. Loss to South Alabama notwithstanding, this will again be a dangerous team this year.

In other news, Sunday matchups updated above.

And more interestingly - they're very different from FSU teams in the past. In the last 5 years, FSU has made due with a top 15 Defense - Ranked #1 actually in 2010 and 2011 - and an average offense. This year the D has dropped off....but the offense is currently ranked #35 on pomeroy. Makes for a very different team to play.

pfrduke
11-18-2012, 12:08 PM
And more interestingly - they're very different from FSU teams in the past. In the last 5 years, FSU has made due with a top 15 Defense - Ranked #1 actually in 2010 and 2011 - and an average offense. This year the D has dropped off....but the offense is currently ranked #35 on pomeroy. Makes for a very different team to play.

They're riding some hot 3-point shooting right now, at 44.4% on the season. They'll be a good shooting team, but certainly not that good all year. But yes, their defense is not quite as intimidating - they gave St. Joe's a lot of easy looks last night.

Big Pappa
11-18-2012, 12:36 PM
NC State has looked as good as any team in the nation so far this year. They have threats to score from every position on the floor, and Warren has been outstanding in the first 3 games - averaging 17 ppg and 5rpg while shooting 70% from the floor. They have a great early season match-up today with Oklahoma State in Puerto Rico.

OK State has two potential first round draft picks on their squad in Marcus Smart and Le'Bryan Nash. Between them, they are averaging 30.3 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 6.6apg and 3.7spg. They are both from the Dallas area, and I had a chance to watch them both play in High School. They are both very skilled and very hard-nosed kids. I think this will be a great test for NC State and a good barometer for how good they really are.

The game tips at 5:30pm CST on ESPN2 or WatchESPN. - http://espn.go.com/ncb/preview?gameId=323230152

left_hook_lacey
11-18-2012, 06:54 PM
UNC blew it open early in the second half and led by 14-20 most of the way before winning by 15.

A big reason for this was UNC hitting 7 of 13 from three in the second half which isn't indicative of UNC teams of late. I really didn't see that coming and I doubt it becomes a constant. They haven't exactly been world beaters from 3 the past few seasons. They've shot between 32-34% as a team from three the past 3 seasons. That number jumps to 37% during the '08 championship season.


I don't think there is a team in the field as good as Minnesota, the team we open with in the Bahamas.

Couldn't agree more. I've had this game circled on the calender since the schedule was released. Kentucky game aside, I've been more worried about this game than any other early season test. I feel a little better about it after seeing the maturity and confidence our guys showed during the Kentucky game.

sporthenry
11-18-2012, 07:09 PM
A big reason for this was UNC hitting 7 of 13 from three in the second half which isn't indicative of UNC teams of late. I really didn't see that coming and I doubt it becomes a constant. They haven't exactly been world beaters from 3 the past few seasons. They've shot between 32-34% as a team from three the past 3 seasons. That number jumps to 37% during the '08 championship season.


Well they have had some decent 3 point shooters such as Bullock, McDonald and Hairston. I'd expect them to shoot better than 32-34% but I guess time will see. Losing McDonald last year was a bigger loss then most thought but for some reason, the rims don't like the 3 point shots when they are wearing those ugly blue uniforms.

left_hook_lacey
11-21-2012, 01:28 PM
Well, color me optimistic then.

I don't really see any one team being a glaring challenge for UNC. I just think that 2 or 3 teams could play this team close, and given its youth, this team could very easily go out there and lay an egg.

I realize none of the other teams are ranked, but is UNC really 11th? I don't think so. Not right now anyway.


I think Texas,, Marquette and Butler could all give UNC all it wants. If UNC has a tough game at Long Beach, or even loses that game, that factors in also.

The one caveat to my optimism is that Ole Roy has been playing waaay more guys in the line-up than he plans to once the tougher teams come calling. He's been known to do that, then trim it down to the best 7-8 players or 8-9 players on deeper teams. But I don't think it's a case of him giving lots of guys some PT to get them experience for a long season, I think he's still trying to find a line-up that works. And that spells trouble for a team that young.


Well, that's one down. Let's go Chaminade!

Olympic Fan
11-21-2012, 08:22 PM
Good win for BC Wednesday -- they beat Auburn 50-49 on a Olivier Hanlon FT with 20 seconds left.

Hanlon and Rahon -- their two freshman guards -- did almost all the scoring. Ryan Anderson played, but he's still hobbled by a bad foot (he scored just two).

Best part of the win is that it evened the ACC's record against BCS opponents to 4-4 (three of those wins over the SEC).

Hoping Duke can add a Big Ten win tomorrow!