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KYtotheCore
11-07-2012, 07:43 AM
Just wondering how you see the game playing out? I think Duke wins this one. In our (UK's) exibition games we looked pretty tight and unsure throughout. All new faces, plenty of uncertainty and shaky ball-handling. A lot will have to change for UK between now and then. I don't see talent being enough this game, at least not that early.

Billy Dat
11-07-2012, 08:28 AM
I think we'll be able to prognosticate with more authority after watching Kentucky play Maryland on Friday night. It's definitely an advantage for them to play a nationally televised game in a neutral site pro arena against a well-coached ACC team before they play Duke.

In their last exhibition, Cal started Ryan Harrow (Soph), Archie Goodwin (frosh), Alex Poythress (frosh), Kyle Wiltjer (soph) and Nerlens Noel (frosh) so the youth movement continues unabated.

Aside from Mason and Ryan, our team is pretty green, too, if we assume that Seth's minutes and effectiveness will be limited. Ryan Harrow is an older Sophomore who has played Duke before. Wiltjer played meaningful minutes for the defending national champions. We're going to be counting on a pretty untested back court.

Prior to seeing the Maryland game, we have to hope that Kentucky's freshmen play like freshmen and ours don't. That's pretty precarious ground. If this is going to be a statement year for Mason, then taking Nerlens Noel to school would be a great way to get it started. Assuming Cal has some tape, he's going to scheme to dare us to shoot 3s. We need to defend the dribble-drive, rebound (especially limiting second shots), and get Mason the ball.

KYtotheCore
11-07-2012, 08:34 AM
I'm looking forward to the game. I haven't seen Duke play yet this year, but have to believe that returning players provide a distinct advantage. I wish we were playing a little later in the season, allowing both teams to move closer to their true identity. Either way it should be fun, and I'm thrilled that both schools have agreed on the game! It should be an interesting season for both teams. Good luck on your season.

Billy Dat
11-07-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm looking forward to the game. I haven't seen Duke play yet this year, but have to believe that returning players provide a distinct advantage. I wish we were playing a little later in the season, allowing both teams to move closer to their true identity. Either way it should be fun, and I'm thrilled that both schools have agreed on the game! It should be an interesting season for both teams. Good luck on your season.

I am looking forward to the game, too, and wish the two teams played more often as it is a heated rivalry - at least it WAS. It's hard to call it a rivalry when the teams haven't squared off in over 10 years.

Aside from some blatant pre-game sandbagging, I don't give Duke a huge experience advantage because Seth Curry is such a question mark. K identified him as one of the keys to our season and he has been out for most of the preseason with an injury. That makes our backcourt as inexperienced as Kentucky's. Because our primary weakness last year was perimeter defense, and Kentucky runs the attacking dribble drive, I have a wait-and-see attitude about how effectively Duke will defend it. Also, our usual 3 point shooting prowess is questionable in the early going so I assume Cal will pack it in around Mason Plumlee, clog the driving lanes for our guards, and force us to make some outside shots. Ryan Kelly should be really important in this regard - if he can pull a second big away from the hoop by making some 15-23 footers, it will open up the offense.

Billy Dat
11-07-2012, 09:06 AM
I probably am not giving enough credit to Tyler Thornton as being part of our experience advantage. He comes off the bench, but he's a very hard nosed defensive minded guard who could potentially bother the young Kentucky guards with his aggressive, get-under-your-skin style.

MChambers
11-07-2012, 10:29 AM
I probably am not giving enough credit to Tyler Thornton as being part of our experience advantage. He comes off the bench, but he's a very hard nosed defensive minded guard who could potentially bother the young Kentucky guards with his aggressive, get-under-your-skin style.

I think we'll know more about Duke after the Georgia State game, and then we should discuss this.

Billy Dat
11-07-2012, 10:49 AM
I think we'll know more about Duke after the Georgia State game, and then we should discuss this.

By looking ahead, I am actually attempting to jinx the team into losing against Georgia State and ruining our home court non-conference win streak so that they come out extra motivated against Kentucky. Otherwise, I truly fear they will come out flat.

MChambers
11-07-2012, 11:32 AM
By looking ahead, I am actually attempting to jinx the team into losing against Georgia State and ruining our home court non-conference win streak so that they come out extra motivated against Kentucky. Otherwise, I truly fear they will come out flat.

You are one step ahead of me, or perhaps more!

johnb
11-07-2012, 11:44 AM
By looking ahead, I am actually attempting to jinx the team into losing against Georgia State and ruining our home court non-conference win streak so that they come out extra motivated against Kentucky. Otherwise, I truly fear they will come out flat.

I'm glad you are using your superpowers on the important issues of the day!

KYtotheCore
11-09-2012, 11:17 PM
I think we'll be able to prognosticate with more authority after watching Kentucky play Maryland on Friday night.

UK: 1st half - 13 pt. lead over UM / UK: 2 nd half - escapes with win.

mo.st.dukie
11-09-2012, 11:23 PM
I think Duke matches up VERY well with Kentucky. I feel pretty good about the interior matchups of Plumlee and Kelly vs. Noel and Cauley-Stein. Where we could get into some trouble is if UK goes a little smaller and Ryan is forced to matchup against Poythress. I did see a lot of three guard lineups from Kentucky tonight: Polson/Harrow, Mays, and Goodwin so that is a good thing for Duke as I feel we can matchup well by going with Thornton/Cook, Curry, and Sulaimon. Amile and Rasheed are going to have to play big roles, (and hopefully Alex) the good thing is they will be going up against guys who have just as little experience as they do.

I think Mason is going to have a monster game. Alex Len had a huge game tonight and Mason is just as good if not better.

slower
11-10-2012, 08:11 AM
I think Duke matches up VERY well with Kentucky. I feel pretty good about the interior matchups of Plumlee and Kelly vs. Noel and Cauley-Stein. Where we could get into some trouble is if UK goes a little smaller and Ryan is forced to matchup against Poythress. I did see a lot of three guard lineups from Kentucky tonight: Polson/Harrow, Mays, and Goodwin so that is a good thing for Duke as I feel we can matchup well by going with Thornton/Cook, Curry, and Sulaimon. Amile and Rasheed are going to have to play big roles, (and hopefully Alex) the good thing is they will be going up against guys who have just as little experience as they do.

I think Mason is going to have a monster game. Alex Len had a huge game tonight and Mason is just as good if not better.

Alex Len (from what VERY little I saw of him) looks to be more polished offensively, and have greater range, than Mason. I could go the rest of my life without ever having to see another one of Mason's fade-away bricks in the lane. I'm also trying to erase the memory of Hairston shooting a corner three. My sense is that we're going to see a LOT of fouls called inside. And if the thought of one of our small guards trying to contain Archie Goodwin doesn't terrify you, you have a stronger constitution than I do.

Obviously, it could go either way. We could get hot from three and win comfortably. Or, they could dominate the interior, foul our big guys out, and drive by us at will. Everything is just speculation.

MarkD83
11-10-2012, 08:26 AM
Did anyone else notice that Fran Fr. mentioned Bullocks Bbque on the ESPN broadcast of the Ga State game.

gumbomoop
11-10-2012, 09:33 AM
Saw all UK-Md game after end of Duke game. UK dominant in 1st half, very impressive for a first outing with guys still getting used to each other. But Md - who looks underrated at ACC #6 - didn't quit, came back strong in 2d half, killed UK on O-boards, with intensity Duke will need badly. UK survived because backup PG Polson made several clutch plays and FTs. I assumed Polson would see little PT all season, but Cal seemed unhappy with Harrow, who didn't play much.

Polson. I still don't believe it. Further, any of our small guards would do fine against him, but I have to believe Harrow will play some PG v. Duke. The 6 guys [unless Harrow wakes up] we'll see most are Wiltjer, Noel, Cauley-Stein, Poythress, Goodwin, Mays. Lots of terrific combinations there. Exciting, but inconsistent.

Have to hope Poythress is sometimes passive, as last eve, for he could be killer, with an engine in the Kidd-Gilchrist mold. Noel and Cauley-Stein [a big, big fellow] can and do block shots, but Noel is less polished on O than is C-S. Noel also makes Mason look like a good FT-shooter.

Goodwin is exciting, good handle, wants to drive, sometimes out of control. Wiltjer shows he's the smartest, most experienced, despite somewhat limited minutes last season. Wiltjer can and does hit the 3, as does Mays, a very valuable pick-up.

Md is underrated. Several good, not intimidated, frosh. Len vastly improved, best player on floor last eve. Really like frosh Jake Layman, and Seth Allen, unheralded guard, impressive, confident.

brevity
11-10-2012, 10:17 AM
Did anyone else notice that Fran Fr. mentioned Bullocks Bbque on the ESPN broadcast of the Ga State game.

Good point! Mods, please change the title of this thread. I don't know these people are talking about: aside from this post, it's not BBQ.

mo.st.dukie
11-10-2012, 06:15 PM
Alex Len (from what VERY little I saw of him) looks to be more polished offensively, and have greater range, than Mason. I could go the rest of my life without ever having to see another one of Mason's fade-away bricks in the lane. I'm also trying to erase the memory of Hairston shooting a corner three. My sense is that we're going to see a LOT of fouls called inside. And if the thought of one of our small guards trying to contain Archie Goodwin doesn't terrify you, you have a stronger constitution than I do.

Obviously, it could go either way. We could get hot from three and win comfortably. Or, they could dominate the interior, foul our big guys out, and drive by us at will. Everything is just speculation.

No, Archie Goodwin doesn't terrify me. The guy is 6'4 198. Rasheed matches up perfectly with him. Both are freshmen, both built very much the same, both have very similar games, and both ranked very highly coming out of high school. Poythress could cause some problems either at the 3 or the 4. Amile and hopefully Alex will have to be ready. If they go big with Goodwin and Poythress at the same time then we go with Rasheed and Amile. Experience would not be an issue because all of them are freshmen. Archie is not a big guard, I would even feel comfortable with Tyler on him. Our guards matchup very well with their guards. Harrow, Mays, and Polson are not better than Cook, Thornton, and Curry and don't even possess the abilities that typically hurt our trio of guards.

And you are underselling Mason Plumlee big time. He's equally good, if not better than Alex Len. He'll be the best post player on the floor Tuesday night. UK's post players may end up being better NBA players, but Tuesday night Mason will dominate. Kelly can hold his own against UK's bigs as well.

Overall it's a pretty even matchup.

slower
11-10-2012, 06:33 PM
No, Archie Goodwin doesn't terrify me. The guy is 6'4 198. Rasheed matches up perfectly with him. Both are freshmen, both built very much the same, both have very similar games, and both ranked very highly coming out of high school. Poythress could cause some problems either at the 3 or the 4. Amile and hopefully Alex will have to be ready. If they go big with Goodwin and Poythress at the same time then we go with Rasheed and Amile. Experience would not be an issue because all of them are freshmen. Archie is not a big guard, I would even feel comfortable with Tyler on him. Our guards matchup very well with their guards. Harrow, Mays, and Polson are not better than Cook, Thornton, and Curry and don't even possess the abilities that typically hurt our trio of guards.

And you are underselling Mason Plumlee big time. He's equally good, if not better than Alex Len. He'll be the best post player on the floor Tuesday night. UK's post players may end up being better NBA players, but Tuesday night Mason will dominate. Kelly can hold his own against UK's bigs as well.

Overall it's a pretty even matchup.

I certainly hope you're right. I only saw part of the first half of Ky-Md, which was the basis for my comments. Not sure that Mason will "dominate", but we'll see.

crote
11-10-2012, 07:08 PM
And you are underselling Mason Plumlee big time. He's equally good, if not better than Alex Len.

Len was the best player on the floor last night. He showed a lot of versatility and skill on offense. Who knows if he'll be able to sustain it over the course of the season, but that was All-ACC caliber play from him last night. If Mason can consistently play at the level Len played at last night, I would be thrilled.

ice-9
11-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Len was the best player on the floor last night. He showed a lot of versatility and skill on offense. Who knows if he'll be able to sustain it over the course of the season, but that was All-ACC caliber play from him last night. If Mason can consistently play at the level Len played at last night, I would be thrilled.

Len looked amazing in that game. Hate to say it, but in watching Mason over the last three years there's only been a handful of games in which he's looked as good as Len did against Kentucky. It's a data point of one but he looked like an NBA player for sure.

We're going to need a big game from Mason and solid shooting from our guards to beat Kentucky.

Big Pappa
11-11-2012, 12:53 PM
Len looked amazing in that game. Hate to say it, but in watching Mason over the last three years there's only been a handful of games in which he's looked as good as Len did against Kentucky. It's a data point of one but he looked like an NBA player for sure.


There have been 0 games in Len's career in which he looked as good as he did against Kentucky. I like Len, and I think he has a chance to be a great player, but you are seriously undervaluing Mason.

Against one of the best front-courts in the nation last year (Kansas), Mason had 17 and 12. I will take Robinson and Withey over Noel and Cauley-Stein eight days a week. Also worth pointing out, Mason averaged 19.5 ppg and 11 rpg in two games against Maryland last year.

Dukehky
11-11-2012, 11:12 PM
Dear basketball gods,
I would really like for Duke to win this game,
Humbly yours,
HKY

While i agree with previous posters saying Mason is better than Len, Len has gotten whole heaps better. Mason very well could have, but he's been going against small, inferior competition thus far, this game should hopefully be a good measuring stick to see how far he's come. Noel certainly isn't Davis, but from what I saw, he's still a solid defender that no guard is going to go in the lane and score on. I also think that Len might be a little tougher match-up, just because he's more of a skill guy whereas Mason still looks largely like a power player.

Our wing players are gonna have to be really strong for us to win this game, on both ends of the floor. Poythress and Goodwin are both big athletic and good, and I would imagine having already had a tight game, that will benefit Kentucky.

Harrow is not very good and Polson, well I'd be surprised if he showed out like he did against Maryland.

I hate Kentucky, but I like playing them. This type of game is what college hoops is all about, even if it is early in the season. These are two apparently diametrically different programs at this point that expect excellence every year. This game comes down to me, and I think the national audience, as K vs. Cal... At least we're winning the perception battle.

CDu
11-11-2012, 11:49 PM
Theoretically, this should be a VERY interesting matchup. Goodwin vs Sulaimon, Poythress vs Jefferson/Murphy, Kelly vs Wiltjer, Mason vs Noel. I'd say the first is a push, the second is advantage UK, the third is advantage Duke, and the fourth will be interesting. If Curry can outplay the opposing PG, we stand a good chance of winning.

I don't think we can get away with the 3-guard lineup though. Poythress will eat Sulaimon's (or Thornton's) lunch with his size and athleticism. We're going to need Murphy and Jefferson to bring their A+ games.

Mason isn't going to be able to play over the top of the defense against UK like he did against GSU. So he's going to have to play better offensively than he did against GSU (you know - actually score on a post move) if he's going to be effective.

Should be a good test for both teams. We have a huge edge in experience, while they have a huge edge in athleticism. Hopefully we can make life difficult for Polson, Harrow, and/or Mays at PG. If that happens, we stand a really good chance of winning.

ice-9
11-12-2012, 12:03 AM
There have been 0 games in Len's career in which he looked as good as he did against Kentucky. I like Len, and I think he has a chance to be a great player, but you are seriously undervaluing Mason.

Against one of the best front-courts in the nation last year (Kansas), Mason had 17 and 12. I will take Robinson and Withey over Noel and Cauley-Stein eight days a week. Also worth pointing out, Mason averaged 19.5 ppg and 11 rpg in two games against Maryland last year.


This is not a knock on Mason, who I think is the most important player on our team this year and a for-sure first rounder in the NBA draft, but more of praise for Len. It's true he never looked that good last year, but like we all know, the jump from freshman year to sophomore is often the biggest. More than that, Len just looked like a dominant post player, outshining the top post prospect in the nation and future lottery pick Nerlen Noels (who incidentally is best known for defence).

If Mason can match Len's performance, we will win. But I'd be surprised if Mason can do better.

Again, no diss to Mason, more a tip of the hat to Len.

Troublemaker
11-12-2012, 10:12 AM
If Mason plays well, I'll be happy. In fact, I think I'd rather see Mason play well in a loss than see him play poorly in a win (although obviously in most cases where Duke wins, Mason will probably play well.) I'm not sandbagging; like most Duke fans, I expect our experience edge to give us a W but ultimately, November wins are relatively unimportant. What's important is Mason getting post position and scoring 1-on-1 against UK's shotblockers, whether that means going over them with hook shots or around them with drop steps or maybe even a faceup drive (perhaps set up by an allegedly improved faceup shot). I would love to see Mason force double-teams and then find open shooters. Coach K has identified Mason as being the key/best player on this team and has built everything around him. He was a stud in the first game, and if he's a stud again against UK, it'll keep him confident and on track to being a stud all season.

If Curry's shot is on, he should have a big game. Assuming UK plays man-to-man, I don't think their young guards will be able to get through Duke's screening when we run plays for Seth. Might be a different story later in the season, but tomorrow, Seth will have open shots.

gumbomoop
11-12-2012, 12:00 PM
Theoretically, this should be a VERY interesting matchup. Goodwin vs Sulaimon, Poythress vs Jefferson/Murphy, Kelly vs Wiltjer, Mason vs Noel. I'd say the first is a push, the second is advantage UK, the third is advantage Duke, and the fourth will be interesting. If Curry can outplay the opposing PG, we stand a good chance of winning.

Agree about interesting matchups, and very happy to see this early test for both teams. As to Kelly advantage v. Wiltjer, I'd say it should be advantage Duke, but the multi-skilled Kelly has not, IMO, consistently exhibited enough attitude, determination, relentlessness. Occasionally Ryan will be demonstrative after a fine play, but that's a frail substitute for relentlessness. In his limited minutes last season, and v. Md last week, Wiltjer played smart and hard. So I will hope Ryan matches Wiltjer's smart, hard work.

Re Mason and Noel: unfortunately, it's more like Mason v. Noel and Cauley-Stein, both big-time shot blockers. Assuming Marshall would have played 10 minutes in this game, his absence puts a whole lot of pressure on Mason to play close to 35 minutes. And either Josh or Amile will need to defend against a bigger guy for some crucial minutes. Foul trouble for Mason will be bad news.



Harrow is not very good and Polson, well I'd be surprised if he showed out like he did against Maryland.

I agree that Polson is not a problem, or shouldn't be. His play was inspiring v. Md, but if Duke allows him to sneak in for crucial plays, shame on Duke. Harrow, hard to say how good he is. He has talent, makes some clever moves, very inconsistent. He's no bum. He has a good handle and can make plays. I hope he and Cal are still on the outs, as I'd prefer to deal with Polson.

I'd also prefer that Alex get off the bench to make a couple of good plays early, thus earning some minutes in this and upcoming games. His DNP in first game was unsettling.

Wander
11-12-2012, 12:41 PM
This is sort of odd in that none of the match-ups are clear at all. At all five positions, I could see either Kentucky or Duke potentially having the advantage - both in this game and over the course of the season.

thenameisbond
11-12-2012, 02:05 PM
My hope for tomorrow night is that Quin Cook starts and plays well enough to get extended minutes, with Thornton continuing his level of play from the GA State game.

I would also like to see Alex Murphy back in the lineup. We will need his length and athleticism.

mccollums
11-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Just FYI. Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but Harrow had the flu the day before the Maryland game..., Cal said today that he should not have played Harrow. Harrow has not practiced this weekend and may not play tomorrow night.

Also, how in the world can anyone say Harrow is not any good? Based on what? The kid hasn't played a real game in over a year and was under the weather Friday night. I think it might be a little too early to pan the former 5 star recruit....

Billy Dat
11-12-2012, 02:32 PM
This is sort of odd in that none of the match-ups are clear at all. At all five positions, I could see either Kentucky or Duke potentially having the advantage - both in this game and over the course of the season.

With all of the disclaimers about basketball being a team game and individual match-ups are not black and white and yadda yadda yadda...

If Mason Plumlee doesn't own the match-up with Nerlens Noel, I am going to be disappointed. This is the second game of the year and we're talking Senior against Freshman. I feel like Duke really needs to win that match-up to win. Anything can happen, but I feel like this is much more of a statement game for Mason then Nerlens. Granted, Nerlens got outplayed by Len and he's probably mad about it, but I'd like Mason to announce his plan for a dominant season with a big performance against the big name, big-maned freshman.

jv001
11-12-2012, 03:18 PM
With all of the disclaimers about basketball being a team game and individual match-ups are not black and white and yadda yadda yadda...

If Mason Plumlee doesn't own the match-up with Nerlens Noel, I am going to be disappointed. This is the second game of the year and we're talking Senior against Freshman. I feel like Duke really needs to win that match-up to win. Anything can happen, but I feel like this is much more of a statement game for Mason then Nerlens. Granted, Nerlens got outplayed by Len and he's probably mad about it, but I'd like Mason to announce his plan for a dominant season with a big performance against the big name, big-maned freshman.

Make those free throws big guy. GoDuke!

subzero02
11-12-2012, 03:36 PM
We opened as 2 point favorites against the cats and currently are currently favored by 3 points...


http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/line-movement/kentucky-@-duke.cfm/date/11-13-12/time/2130#BT

slower
11-12-2012, 03:45 PM
but I'd like Mason to announce his plan for a dominant season with a big performance against the big name, big-maned freshman.

I mean, we'd all LIKE that, but it's a 50/50 proposition. and it's not just Noel, but also Cauley and Poythress who will be battling Mason inside.

Without having the numbers in front of me, I don't have a definitive sense whether Mason's a guy who plays up/down to his level of competition. Anybody have the answer on this one?

Saratoga2
11-12-2012, 03:57 PM
Saw all UK-Md game after end of Duke game. UK dominant in 1st half, very impressive for a first outing with guys still getting used to each other. But Md - who looks underrated at ACC #6 - didn't quit, came back strong in 2d half, killed UK on O-boards, with intensity Duke will need badly. UK survived because backup PG Polson made several clutch plays and FTs. I assumed Polson would see little PT all season, but Cal seemed unhappy with Harrow, who didn't play much.

Polson. I still don't believe it. Further, any of our small guards would do fine against him, but I have to believe Harrow will play some PG v. Duke. The 6 guys [unless Harrow wakes up] we'll see most are Wiltjer, Noel, Cauley-Stein, Poythress, Goodwin, Mays. Lots of terrific combinations there. Exciting, but inconsistent.

Have to hope Poythress is sometimes passive, as last eve, for he could be killer, with an engine in the Kidd-Gilchrist mold. Noel and Cauley-Stein [a big, big fellow] can and do block shots, but Noel is less polished on O than is C-S. Noel also makes Mason look like a good FT-shooter.

Goodwin is exciting, good handle, wants to drive, sometimes out of control. Wiltjer shows he's the smartest, most experienced, despite somewhat limited minutes last season. Wiltjer can and does hit the 3, as does Mays, a very valuable pick-up.

Md is underrated. Several good, not intimidated, frosh. Len vastly improved, best player on floor last eve. Really like frosh Jake Layman, and Seth Allen, unheralded guard, impressive, confident.

Kentucky plays a tough man to man that will not give our small guards a lot of open looks from outside. I don't expect either Seth or Tyler to put up a lot of points. Kentucky also has athletic bigs who will make it hard for Mason to succeed inside. I don't see us putting up a lot of points on Kentucky, so we will need to approach the game as Maryland did. Toughness, hustle and second/third chance points. Kentucky seemed soft and slow to the rebounds in the Maryland game. Hopefully, that part of their game will not have made a big improvement in one week. I hope we are in a position to use Alex in this game as they have ability at the small forward position and we may well need Alex and Amile to provide defense and energy.

Jderf
11-12-2012, 04:04 PM
I mean, we'd all LIKE that, but it's a 50/50 proposition. and it's not just Noel, but also Cauley and Poythress who will be battling Mason inside.

Without having the numbers in front of me, I don't have a definitive sense whether Mason's a guy who plays up/down to his level of competition. Anybody have the answer on this one?

I'm not sure that Mason plays either up or down to the level of competition so much as he just plays up and down in general -- at least, on the scoring side of things. On the other hand, his rebounding is very consistent (and not praised enough, in my opinion).

Also, it would be extremely hard to quantify how much of Mason's inconsistency is due to himself and how much is due to the rest of the team failing to get him the ball where/when he wants it.

In any case... Get. Mason. The Ball.

mccollums
11-12-2012, 05:58 PM
Kentucky plays a tough man to man that will not give our small guards a lot of open looks from outside. I don't expect either Seth or Tyler to put up a lot of points. Kentucky also has athletic bigs who will make it hard for Mason to succeed inside. I don't see us putting up a lot of points on Kentucky, so we will need to approach the game as Maryland did. Toughness, hustle and second/third chance points. Kentucky seemed soft and slow to the rebounds in the Maryland game. Hopefully, that part of their game will not have made a big improvement in one week. I hope we are in a position to use Alex in this game as they have ability at the small forward position and we may well need Alex and Amile to provide defense and energy.

I think Duke guards/forwards will get a lot of open looks tonight from the Duke guards pushing the ball up the floor. All the previous Calipari UK teams have struggled early with transition defense because everyone one of them want to pin someone on the backboard during a fast break. You'll probably see Duke ballhandler sprinting up the middle of the floor with the option of hitting a big in the middle(sprinting ahead) or kicking it to the wing. The questions are... will Duke hit those open looks and will Coach K push the ball the whole game....?... or will he try this periodically to go on a run..

Mason should be able to get position all day long on the UK centers... but they have ALOT of length, and going up against 2 guys with 9'2" standing reach with jumping ability is tough to prepare for.....I'm a UK fan, so I don't watch may Duke games... does Mason use pump fakes? Both Noel and WCS are young and prone to fakes right now. I don't remember seeing Mason using alot of pump fakes or up and unders...I guess because he has a solid jump hook and is a pretty good run/jump athlete himself...

gumbomoop
11-12-2012, 07:31 PM
I'm a UK fan, so I don't watch many Duke games...

I'm no UK expert, but have plenty of half-baked opinions. Glad to have your comments in advance of the game. I have several questions, some of which are general, as opposed to what might happen tomorrow eve.

1. Were you as surprised as I by Polson's heady play v. Md? Do you and/or UK fans generally think he will contribute consistently?

2. How come Hood - now healthy, yes? - doesn't play more, or any? Isn't he a more "logical" 8th man than Polson, as Goodwin surely can provide backup to Harrow?

3. Do you have high, or nervous, hopes re Harrow as PG?

4. Is Cauley-Stein a bigger threat on O than Noel?

5. Do UK fans worry than Noel may be a 40% kind of FT-shooter? Much better? Worse?

6. Is Wiltjer as effective inside as step-out 3-bomber?

grossbus
11-12-2012, 07:53 PM
with the apparent unexpected turmoil in our lineup (cook, murphy), i am not confident about this game. chemistry is so important and i am not sure what ours is right now.

licc85
11-12-2012, 10:45 PM
I'm no UK expert, but have plenty of half-baked opinions. Glad to have your comments in advance of the game. I have several questions, some of which are general, as opposed to what might happen tomorrow eve.

1. Were you as surprised as I by Polson's heady play v. Md? Do you and/or UK fans generally think he will contribute consistently?

2. How come Hood - now healthy, yes? - doesn't play more, or any? Isn't he a more "logical" 8th man than Polson, as Goodwin surely can provide backup to Harrow?

3. Do you have high, or nervous, hopes re Harrow as PG?

4. Is Cauley-Stein a bigger threat on O than Noel?

5. Do UK fans worry than Noel may be a 40% kind of FT-shooter? Much better? Worse?

6. Is Wiltjer as effective inside as step-out 3-bomber?

As a former long time Lexington resident, I watched almost every UK game last year (and every Duke game), and I'm very well caught up on UK basketball in general just from talking to many of my friends who are UK fans. So, while I'm a Duke guy through and through, I may be of some use here, in case mcollums doesn't check back before the game.

1. Yes, Polson's game came out of nowhere and nobody really expects this to continue, though UK fans are optimistic. However, he is a smart player and shows a lot of heart, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him continue to get minutes, but this level of production will not become a trend.

2. Honestly, Polson might be the better option off the bench. Hood has been pretty much terrible the last 2 years, even when healthy. He's just not that good . . .

3. Harrow will be fine, he shouldn't have even played against MD. He has great ball handling ability and should become a solid PG for the cats.

4. No, Noel's 4 points against MD should be more of an abberation than the norm. He's just too athletic to not average at least close to double digits. He never averaged a ton of points even in high school, but I expect his scoring to increase once Harrow recovers to full strength. Neither guy has much of a back to the basket game, but I think WCS is more of a project on offense.

5. 40% is probably about right . . .

6. Not right now, but he's about as deadly a catch and shoot guy as there is in the NCAA, considering his height and release point. I think he's probably a better stand still shooter than anyone we have, but inside the 3 point line, I think Ryan still has the edge on him in terms of an offensive game around the basket. Still, Wiltjer is very similar to Ryan in that he's an extremely intelligent player and does some crafty things to help his team win. I wouldn't be surprised to see him win that matchup against Ryan if Ryan doesn't bring his A-game.

I think Duke wins this game. Not comfortably, but I think we're just a better team right now. UK will improve, as they always do with their talented freshmen classes, but let's be frank. This year's class is nowhere close to last year's haul of talent. Anthony Davis and MKG were 1st team AA caliber players. I do not believe any of these guys is quite that good. Noel is going to be a defensive monster, but he's just not on the level of Davis or MKG. Next year is the year to truly fear UK.

Bluedog
11-13-2012, 12:28 AM
Harrow will reportedly not be playing due to flu-like symptoms. Thus, Kentucky will rely on Archie Goodwin and junior Jared Polson who scored 10 points and had three assists in 22 minutes vs Maryland.

mccollums
11-13-2012, 01:57 AM
I'm no UK expert, but have plenty of half-baked opinions. Glad to have your comments in advance of the game. I have several questions, some of which are general, as opposed to what might happen tomorrow eve.

1. Were you as surprised as I by Polson's heady play v. Md? Do you and/or UK fans generally think he will contribute consistently?

2. How come Hood - now healthy, yes? - doesn't play more, or any? Isn't he a more "logical" 8th man than Polson, as Goodwin surely can provide backup to Harrow?

3. Do you have high, or nervous, hopes re Harrow as PG?

4. Is Cauley-Stein a bigger threat on O than Noel?

5. Do UK fans worry than Noel may be a 40% kind of FT-shooter? Much better? Worse?

6. Is Wiltjer as effective inside as step-out 3-bomber?

I like the half baked comment. :-) That's really what we are all doing on any message board. We don't see our teams practice every day, so we can only base what we see on games.

1.) Surprised, Yes. But Mildly. OK, maybe a little more then mildy.... One of my first posts on this board I talked about how I thought Polson could come in and play spot minutes and not hurt the team. He was an all-state Ky high school basketball player with decent athleticism and good size. I've always been annoyed by the crowd at UK games that yell "SHOOT!" when Polson came into to games. He's a ball player. Can he sustain this type of performance? Probably not, just think of Jeremy Lin and how much press he received. NBA teams started locking him up - so as much as I like Polson, he played perfect Friday night and that's tough to duplicate.

2.) not sure on Hood. I've missed on some UK players when it comes to evaluating their skills. I thought Perry Stevenson and Jules Camara were going to be much better then they turned out..... when it comes to Hood, I'm not sure. He's actually pretty athletic when it comes to leaping, and has a automatic mid range shot..... He was a top 50 high schooler - so I think something's there - ...... more dots and rambling.....lol.. just not sure.

3.) I haven't seen enough of Harrow to form an opinion. Maybe a little nervous because of the unknown, but I have to trust Calipari to a certain extent.

4.) Cauley-Stein seems to have a better touch then Noel. And.... a much more of a clue when shooting free throws. I'm not sure if you can see he's more of an offensive threat though. Noel, in the limited time I've seen him, has a clue with his jump hook and a knack for hitting shots around the rim. Also, Noel possesses a certain amount of suddenness and explosiveness that surprises opposing players and TV viewers.

5.) Yes, I think UK fans are worrying about Noel at the stripe. Hell, just watch Noel, he's worried too. One thing I've read is that Noel is working harder then anyone on the current UK team in-practice and after practice... so I think he will improve... I'm just hoping he can get in the 60 % range in March.

6.) Wiltjer has a GREAT hook shot. I'm not sure if he has the strength or the short area quickness to pull it off this year.... but he has a clue on any shot he takes.... right hand hook, left hand hook,..15 footer, floater etc..etc.. He's one of those guys that you expect to hit the shot EVERY time he shoots. Like the poster above said.. he's pretty crafty - and Cal is pushing him to be more then just a shooter. He's not a great athlete, that's obvious, but he's 6'9 and has really good length. The major drawback is his lateral mobility on defense. Cal LOVES to play 5 guys that can switch and guard multiple positions..... so this years team presents some challenges to that philosophy.

tele
11-13-2012, 02:15 AM
We opened as 2 point favorites against the cats and currently are currently favored by 3 points...


http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/line-movement/kentucky-@-duke.cfm/date/11-13-12/time/2130#BT

Duke is now 3.5 point favorites. Since Duke is ranked number 9 and Kentucky is ranked 3'rd, espn poll, if Kentucky is getting 3.5 points it must mean that more people are liking Duke than Kentucky. Or in other words, everyone loves Duke.

gumbomoop
11-13-2012, 07:58 AM
Thanks to licc85 and mccollums for good info in posts #38 and 40. I will hope that Mason doesn't foul Noel often, but that Noel shoots bricks when infrequently at the line. If Josh needs to foul Noel, that'd be ok. Also hope that Ryan plays with purpose at both ends of the court; Wiltjer is good, so Ryan must be active on D.


Harrow will reportedly not be playing due to flu-like symptoms. Thus, Kentucky will rely on Archie Goodwin and junior Jared Polson who scored 10 points and had three assists in 22 minutes vs Maryland.

This news [link: http://www.sportsoverdose.com/ncaa-basketball-players/ryan-harrow]is pretty important. Polson was inspiring v. Md, but, as licc85 and mccollums say, not the PG Harrow is. Also means, unless Hood gets some real PT, that UK will play only 7 guys. Because they have position-flexibility, they can do it, absent foul problems. I'd expect Goodwin to play more than Polson at PG, and Mays to play a lot.

Seems that UK must avoid foul trouble among their backcourt/perimeter guys [Goodwin, Poythress, Mays], and Duke must avoid foul trouble for Ryan and Mason.

subzero02
11-13-2012, 09:44 AM
This aricle indicates that Polson will likely start tonight over a flu-stricken Harrow.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/gamecast?gameId=323180096&version=mobile&date=20121113&groupId=999

CDu
11-13-2012, 10:45 AM
This aricle indicates that Polson will likely start tonight over a flu-stricken Harrow.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/gamecast?gameId=323180096&version=mobile&date=20121113&groupId=999

Losing Harrow (or having him at less than 100%) is a big plus for us. The kid was a pretty talented player at NCSU, but he just wasn't ready as a freshman. With a year of practice at UK and a year of physical maturity, he should be a pretty good player for them. Polson is a big step down talent-wise.

Hopefully we can pressure Polson and limit UK offensively. If so, we stand a pretty good chance of winning.

Olympic Fan
11-13-2012, 10:52 AM
Losing Harrow (or having him at less than 100%) is a big plus for us. The kid was a pretty talented player at NCSU, but he just wasn't ready as a freshman. With a year of practice at UK and a year of physical maturity, he should be a pretty good player for them. Polson is a big step down talent-wise.

Hopefully we can pressure Polson and limit UK offensively. If so, we stand a pretty good chance of winning.

Funny, but I see this as a negative. Ryan Harrow couldn't beat out Javier Gonzales at State ... he was was weak and a mental basket case. I would much rather see Harrow playing big minutes against us that Polson, who doesn't have the rep or the physical talent, but is a smart, fearless player (everything Harrow is not).

I've been telling my Kentucky fans for months that Harrow is the big weak spot on this team. So when he flops in the opener, it's because he has the flu ... I wonder what the next excuse will be.

CDu
11-13-2012, 11:03 AM
Funny, but I see this as a negative. Ryan Harrow couldn't beat out Javier Gonzales at State ... he was was weak and a mental basket case. I would much rather see Harrow playing big minutes against us that Polson, who doesn't have the rep or the physical talent, but is a smart, fearless player (everything Harrow is not).

I've been telling my Kentucky fans for months that Harrow is the big weak spot on this team. So when he flops in the opener, it's because he has the flu ... I wonder what the next excuse will be.

I disagree. A freshman Harrow didn't decidely beat out a senior Gonzalez. But he averaged more minutes (23.0 to 19.4), points (9.3 to 5.5), assists (3.3 to 2.3), and had a higher assist/turnover ratio (1.83 to 1.77) than Gonzalez. The knock on him was that he wasn't strong enough, but that was as a freshman. You'd think that, with an additional year of practice and two offseasons to develop, he'd be substantially better than he was as a freshman.

If you're expecting freshman-year Harrow, then yes - he'd be a liability. But I have to believe that in the 1.5 years since you last saw him play, he's improved substantially.

Wander
11-13-2012, 11:12 AM
Funny, but I see this as a negative. Ryan Harrow couldn't beat out Javier Gonzales at State ... he was was weak and a mental basket case. I would much rather see Harrow playing big minutes against us that Polson, who doesn't have the rep or the physical talent, but is a smart, fearless player (everything Harrow is not).

I've been telling my Kentucky fans for months that Harrow is the big weak spot on this team. So when he flops in the opener, it's because he has the flu ... I wonder what the next excuse will be.

You are making the same mistake that fans of every team in the history of college basketball have made. "Our guys will improve in the offseason, our opponents' won't."

roywhite
11-13-2012, 11:15 AM
I disagree. A freshman Harrow didn't decidely beat out a senior Gonzalez. But he averaged more minutes (23.0 to 19.4), points (9.3 to 5.5), assists (3.3 to 2.3), and had a higher assist/turnover ratio (1.83 to 1.77) than Gonzalez. The knock on him was that he wasn't strong enough, but that was as a freshman. You'd think that, with an additional year of practice and two offseasons to develop, he'd be substantially better than he was as a freshman.

If you're expecting freshman-year Harrow, then yes - he'd be a liability. But I have to believe that in the 1.5 years since you last saw him play, he's improved substantially.

Maybe so, but that's not the impression I get from watching the All-Access Kentucky series on ESPN-U (it's the same type series we saw on Duke last year; they film Kentucky practices and follow Calipari around).

Calipari seems to be constantly "on" Harrow about not being aggressive, not bringing the ball up quick enough, dribbling into trouble, and not being vocal (unfortunately for Harrow, he has a high, squeaky voice that doesn't seem to translate well to giving directions to teammates). Some of it is just normal coaching I'm sure, but Harrow doesn't come across as anywhere close to what we've seen at the PG position in recent years at Kentucky.

gumbomoop
11-13-2012, 11:25 AM
I would much rather see Harrow playing big minutes against us than Polson, who doesn't have the rep or the physical talent, but is a smart, fearless player (everything Harrow is not).

I'm surprised by this, but will say that OF's description of Harrow did, momentarily, conjure up memories of Larry Drew's, uh, play over at UNC. And certainly I do recall Harrow's inconsistency at NCSt.

Assuming this news is not a Cal feint, I'd expect Goodwin to play PG at least as much as Polson. I am happy to call on licc85 and mccollums to testify further as to Polson's strengths and weaknesses, for I may well be understating the former and overstating the latter. Honestly, I would not have described Polson as "smart, fearless" [nor stupid and cowardly, either]. I'd say he appears to be a hard-working young man from the state of Ky who's getting an unexpected chance to live his dream, something like Stilman White for UNC at end of last season.

If our PGs - I'll list Cook and Curry - cannot get by Polson on O, and and cannot defend him on D, thus leaving Thornton and Sulaimon for the much, much tougher tasks, then (a) Polson is much better than I think [i.e., he's the smart, fearless guy OF describes], (b) Cook and Curry are much worse than I think, and (c) Duke's in trouble.

OldPhiKap
11-13-2012, 11:26 AM
I think this will be an intersting game, but both teams will be much better come March than now. I hope we gain some good experience; a win would be icing on the cake. We have a brutal start to this season, with lots of new roles to define.

CDu
11-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Maybe so, but that's not the impression I get from watching the All-Access Kentucky series on ESPN-U (it's the same type series we saw on Duke last year; they film Kentucky practices and follow Calipari around).

Calipari seems to be constantly "on" Harrow about not being aggressive, not bringing the ball up quick enough, dribbling into trouble, and not being vocal (unfortunately for Harrow, he has a high, squeaky voice that doesn't seem to translate well to giving directions to teammates). Some of it is just normal coaching I'm sure, but Harrow doesn't come across as anywhere close to what we've seen at the PG position in recent years at Kentucky.

Oh I have no disagreement with the bolded part. Harrow is definitely no John Wall or Brandon Knight, and probably not even Marquis Teague. I still think he's a good bit better than Polson. My point wasn't to suggest that Harrow is a star on the level of past Kentucky PG - just that it's a big loss for the current team given what the alternatives are.

swagilicious
11-13-2012, 11:57 AM
Not sure if anyone posted this already, but apparently Cauley-Stein has never heard of Laettner's turn around shot. "That's before me."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/kentucky-cauley-stein-making-feel-old-knowing-nothing-215533598--ncaab.html

dynastydefender
11-13-2012, 01:13 PM
Good luck Duke. As far as I am concerned the hatchet is buried. Looking forward to our young players learning from the best coach in basketball and the best motivator in basketball. I think in the long run our Ky Players will look back and consider this game to be a pinnacle basketball moment. Regardless who wins someone get out there and embarrass the Tar Heels.

Steven43
11-13-2012, 01:37 PM
Good luck Duke. As far as I am concerned the hatchet is buried. Looking forward to our young players learning from the best coach in basketball and the best motivator in basketball. I think in the long run our Ky Players will look back and consider this game to be a pinnacle basketball moment. Regardless who wins someone get out there and embarrass the Tar Heels.

Who are you saying is the best coach and best motivator in basketball?

elvis14
11-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Good luck Duke. As far as I am concerned the hatchet is buried. Looking forward to our young players learning from the best coach in basketball and the best motivator in basketball. I think in the long run our Ky Players will look back and consider this game to be a pinnacle basketball moment. Regardless who wins someone get out there and embarrass the Tar Heels.

I'm not sure how much the Ky players can learn from Coach K in just one game but I'm sure whatever they can pick up on will surely help them in the long run.

I agree with you 100% about UNC@CH

Billy Dat
11-13-2012, 02:12 PM
Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops
He is key to Duke's whole season RT @saintjamesii: How does freshman Rashid Sulaimon factor in tonight's matchup for Duke?

jcastranio
11-13-2012, 02:13 PM
Neutral court, big-time match-up

Predictions:

Mason will struggle, early on, with the height and shot-blocking of the two KY freshmen. Saddled with two early fouls, he will come on in the second half and finish with a double-double.

Ryan will break out of it with a team-leading 20 points.

There will be some level of comfort among the six top freshmen (combined both sides) as they have played against each other in high school and AAU competition for some time. These freshmen will actually play better than we would expect. Rasheed will go for double figures and Amile will impress on the defensive end.

Seth Curry will go for double figures, but play more limited minutes.

Alex will get some burn and relieve our fears.

Tyler Thornton will play a modest, if steady role. He will have limited points, but also limited turnovers.

With Duke getting most of our scoring from four main players, the game will turn on two elements:

1. Team defense

2. Quin Cook playing 25 minutes of steady, error-free ball.

The KY freshmen will start well - allowing them the confidence to continue that start into the second half. Rasheed and Ryan will keep us in it early, Seth and Mason later, when the tension (and the game) tightens up.

Our defense will assert itself in the second half. Quin will start to exhibit leadership and poise in the second.

Halftime: KY 34 Duke 31

Final Duke 72 KY 64

(of course, I'll take a 108-56 Duke victory)

slower
11-13-2012, 02:41 PM
Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops
He is key to Duke's whole season RT @saintjamesii: How does freshman Rashid Sulaimon factor in tonight's matchup for Duke?

I'd be far more interested in what Jay Bilas has to say than Seth Davis.

It's just like ANY other game - everything is just an opinion.

I'm still not sold on Mason being able to get his shot off against Noel, Cauley and Poythress. Picking who will be critical in tonight's game is just rolling the dice. Having said that, I'll go with Goodwin going off against our guards and Amile (who I am REALLY liking so far) getting some valuable garbage baskets. I desperately want to believe that Seth will bury threes against their guards. And, even though I'm more in the Quinn camp than the Tyler camp, I think Tyler gets Noel/Cauley/Poythress to commit a stupid foul or two (no matter what you think of his talent, Tyler is the heart of this team). There's my two cents.

I am, of course, prepared to be totally wrong ;)

Bluealum
11-13-2012, 03:16 PM
Neutral court, big-time match-up

Predictions:

Mason will struggle, early on, with the height and shot-blocking of the two KY freshmen. Saddled with two early fouls, he will come on in the second half and finish with a double-double.

Ryan will break out of it with a team-leading 20 points.

There will be some level of comfort among the six top freshmen (combined both sides) as they have played against each other in high school and AAU competition for some time. These freshmen will actually play better than we would expect. Rasheed will go for double figures and Amile will impress on the defensive end.

Seth Curry will go for double figures, but play more limited minutes.

Alex will get some burn and relieve our fears.

Tyler Thornton will play a modest, if steady role. He will have limited points, but also limited turnovers.

With Duke getting most of our scoring from four main players, the game will turn on two elements:

1. Team defense

2. Quin Cook playing 25 minutes of steady, error-free ball.

The KY freshmen will start well - allowing them the confidence to continue that start into the second half. Rasheed and Ryan will keep us in it early, Seth and Mason later, when the tension (and the game) tightens up.

Our defense will assert itself in the second half. Quin will start to exhibit leadership and poise in the second.

Halftime: KY 34 Duke 31

Final Duke 72 KY 64

(of course, I'll take a 108-56 Duke victory)

Nice, going out on a limb with actual predictions over micro post game analysis where we can all sound intelligent! It should be a fascinating game and I agree it will not be pretty. Let me go out on a limb too, to prove how little I know as well...

With our focus on D and our early offensive woes we are well ahead on defense. With their athleticism, they will affect our offense but our experience should limit their ability to run and play without thinking, where they are best. I think it will be an ugly low scoring affair for both teams with lots of energy expended on D, and some less than pretty half court O.

I actually believe that against inferior athleticism, Ryan and Seth are by far our two best offensive weapons, but I also believe they suffer the most against length and speed. I don't predict a big scoring effort from Seth or Ryan (less than 12 points apiece and well under what will be their season averages). I think Mason suffers the least against athleticism (his limitations have been more mental, and I think he will play more freely when playing against top players). The play of the rookies and Quin offensively will be the key in my view. Seth and Ryan will be contained and Mason will have to shoot a lot for his points. TT will not reach double figures. If Alex, Rasheed, Amile and Quin don't combine for 35 points (which is asking a lot I know), I think we lose. If they do I think we win.

I am mentally prepared to be completely wrong, but I won't read the boards for a day or two if we get beaten by a team full of rookies. It could be a little ugly even here on DBR.

CLW
11-13-2012, 03:20 PM
This game will be a semi-road type atmosphere as Cat fans travel well. To win, we are going to need to come out with a ton of energy and just out hustle the Cats on the glass and win the loose 50/50 balls.

It will be interesting to see if Murphy gets out on the court or if he is still "in the dog house". I really think we will need Amile and/or Murphy to play well at the 3 to guard and rebound against a bigger lineup/opponent. Our bigs (Plumlee/Kelly) are also going to have to stay out of foul trouble as we do not have near the size Kentucky does with 3 6'10"+ players.

MCFinARL
11-13-2012, 03:27 PM
This aricle indicates that Polson will likely start tonight over a flu-stricken Harrow.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/gamecast?gameId=323180096&version=mobile&date=20121113&groupId=999

Apologize if this is taking the discussion a bit off point, but a main focus of the linked article is the alleged intense recruiting battle between Duke and Kentucky over Poythress, which Kentucky won. Am I remembering wrong? I thought Duke backed off Poythress for some reason before he chose Kentucky--and long enough before that it wasn't likely because they already knew Kentucky had won (though it's possible it was because they had gotten indications that Poythress had cooled on Duke). I don't remember this one going down to the wire like some of the other big battles last year.

slower
11-13-2012, 03:28 PM
I am mentally prepared to be completely wrong, but I won't read the boards for a day or two if we get beaten by a team full of rookies. It could be a little ugly even here on DBR.

Losing to UK shouldn't precipitate a Lehigh-level meltdown, should it? Not saying we're going to lose, of course (I think Harrow may be a significant loss for UK).

jv001
11-13-2012, 03:28 PM
Nice, going out on a limb with actual predictions over micro post game analysis where we can all sound intelligent! It should be a fascinating game and I agree it will not be pretty. Let me go out on a limb too, to prove how little I know as well...

With our focus on D and our early offensive woes we are well ahead on defense. With their athleticism, they will affect our offense but our experience should limit their ability to run and play without thinking, where they are best. I think it will be an ugly low scoring affair for both teams with lots of energy expended on D, and some less than pretty half court O.

I actually believe that against inferior athleticism, Ryan and Seth are by far our two best offensive weapons, but I also believe they suffer the most against length and speed. I don't predict a big scoring effort from Seth or Ryan (less than 12 points apiece and well under what will be their season averages). I think Mason suffers the least against athleticism (his limitations have been more mental, and I think he will play more freely when playing against top players). The play of the rookies and Quin offensively will be the key in my view. Seth and Ryan will be contained and Mason will have to shoot a lot for his points. TT will not reach double figures. If Alex, Rasheed, Amile and Quin don't combine for 35 points (which is asking a lot I know), I think we lose. If they do I think we win.

I am mentally prepared to be completely wrong, but I won't read the boards for a day or two if we get beaten by a team full of rookies. It could be a little ugly even here on DBR.

Very good post and I agree with many of your points. What I'm waiting to see is how Seth, Mason and Ryan have stepped up as senior leaders on this team. For us to have a Duke like year someone has to step up and lead the team. Leading by example and setting the tone of play. We need to play Kentucky tough on defense. Good team defense being in the right place at the right time. But saying that, our two best defenders are Rasheed and Amile, both freshmen. I also agree that this game could be ugly and it will go down to the last few minutes. GoDuke!

wilson
11-13-2012, 03:37 PM
This game will be a semi-road type atmosphere as Cat fans travel well.I think this is going to be a factor. I was at CNN Center (next door to the GA Dome) yesterday, and I saw several dozen Kentucky fans and zero Duke fans.

OldPhiKap
11-13-2012, 05:16 PM
Losing to UK shouldn't precipitate a Lehigh-level meltdown, should it? Not saying we're going to lose, of course (I think Harrow may be a significant loss for UK).

These are two teams with lots of talent but undeveloped roles, and both are in the top 10. I would not be surprised by any big win or loss, and am more concerned with the rematch in March.

Just play good defense, that's what I want to see if I got to pick something.

OldPhiKap
11-13-2012, 05:18 PM
I think this is going to be a factor. I was at CNN Center (next door to the GA Dome) yesterday, and I saw several dozen Kentucky fans and zero Duke fans.

Curious to see who the KU and MSU fans pull for. My Kansas connections (okay, only "DukieinKansas" but that's good enough for me) seems to think they dislike Kentucky more than us. I would like to think that MSU has as much respect for us as we for them, and they are more about grinding it out with program kids as opposed to NBA-lite. So that may help.

Olympic Fan
11-13-2012, 05:33 PM
I disagree. A freshman Harrow didn't decidely beat out a senior Gonzalez. But he averaged more minutes (23.0 to 19.4), points (9.3 to 5.5), assists (3.3 to 2.3), and had a higher assist/turnover ratio (1.83 to 1.77) than Gonzalez. The knock on him was that he wasn't strong enough, but that was as a freshman. You'd think that, with an additional year of practice and two offseasons to develop, he'd be substantially better than he was as a freshman.

If you're expecting freshman-year Harrow, then yes - he'd be a liability. But I have to believe that in the 1.5 years since you last saw him play, he's improved substantially.

It would be one thing if Harrow couldn't beat out a quality or even a so-so senior point guard when he was a freshman at State. But he couldn't beat out a total incomptetent who was one of the big reasons State had a losing record that year.

Look, the reason Harrow left NC State was that Gottfried let him know that he'd have to compete with Lorenzo Brown for the starting job -- a competition he knew he was going to lose. Harrow's problems are not physical -- yeah, he was a a bit understrength at NC State, but I'm sure he's spent time in the weight room -- but mental -- he was a guy who didn't like pressure and always ran from the competition.

My Kentucky friends were starting to see it -- there was a vigorous debate before the Kentucky opener, wondering if maybe Julius Mays might not be the best option at the point. You'll see it in the long run. Harrow has the flu now ... I suspect he'll have a pulled hammy or something else to excuse his failure. Oh, I'm sure he'll bounce back when they play Lafayette and Morehead State at LIU Brooklyn ... but look for him to disappar again when they come up against the next quality competition.

To think that before they saw him, some Kentucky fans put him next in the line with John Wall ... Brandon Knight ... Marques Teague ... har-di-har!

Wander
11-13-2012, 06:01 PM
It would be one thing if Harrow couldn't beat out a quality or even a so-so senior point guard when he was a freshman at State. But he couldn't beat out a total incomptetent who was one of the big reasons State had a losing record that year.


I don't understand why you're so sure that a guy with NBA potential couldn't have improved substantially after TWO offseasons.

subzero02
11-13-2012, 06:59 PM
We are now a 4 to 4.5 point favorite according to many Vegas locations.

fayfan20
11-13-2012, 07:00 PM
If you've got the time or interest, the Fayetteville paper's got six or seven separate stories/blogs up about the game on their site

Link:
http://tinyurl.com/ax7m9fe

grossbus
11-13-2012, 07:11 PM
"We are now a 4 to 4.5 point favorite according to many Vegas locations."

why?

doesn't compute for me. i just don't have a good feel for what we are capable of.

mr. synellinden
11-13-2012, 07:42 PM
"We are now a 4 to 4.5 point favorite according to many Vegas locations."

why?

doesn't compute for me. i just don't have a good feel for what we are capable of.

similar talent levels. we have more experience. they are missing harrow.

vegas usually knows.

ChicagoCrazy84
11-13-2012, 07:45 PM
"We are now a 4 to 4.5 point favorite according to many Vegas locations."

why?

doesn't compute for me. i just don't have a good feel for what we are capable of.


I am in the same boat. I am a little surprised that some would favor us against a higher ranked opponent. Do they know something we don't? Not having Harrow is big, but I don't know.

I'm pretty excited for theis game. Like grossbus, I don't have a clue of what to expect from us. I usually have a good feel for our team going into a season, but this one I don't so I'm excited to see what we have against a team like Kentucky, the defending champs. If we lose, I'll be upset but mainly because its another win for UK against an ACC opponent. If we play good D, shoot the ball well, and see some good things from our young, unproven guys (QC, Sheed, Amile, and Murph) I'll be happy. If they struggle, then my predictions for the season may lessen.

DukieInKansas
11-13-2012, 08:16 PM
I think this is going to be a factor. I was at CNN Center (next door to the GA Dome) yesterday, and I saw several dozen Kentucky fans and zero Duke fans.

You must have missed me, Wilson
I was there.
But there were too many Ky fans.

JNort
11-13-2012, 08:40 PM
It would be one thing if Harrow couldn't beat out a quality or even a so-so senior point guard when he was a freshman at State. But he couldn't beat out a total incomptetent who was one of the big reasons State had a losing record that year.

Look, the reason Harrow left NC State was that Gottfried let him know that he'd have to compete with Lorenzo Brown for the starting job -- a competition he knew he was going to lose. Harrow's problems are not physical -- yeah, he was a a bit understrength at NC State, but I'm sure he's spent time in the weight room -- but mental -- he was a guy who didn't like pressure and always ran from the competition.

My Kentucky friends were starting to see it -- there was a vigorous debate before the Kentucky opener, wondering if maybe Julius Mays might not be the best option at the point. You'll see it in the long run. Harrow has the flu now ... I suspect he'll have a pulled hammy or something else to excuse his failure. Oh, I'm sure he'll bounce back when they play Lafayette and Morehead State at LIU Brooklyn ... but look for him to disappar again when they come up against the next quality competition.

To think that before they saw him, some Kentucky fans put him next in the line with John Wall ... Brandon Knight ... Marques Teague ... har-di-har!

I was more under the impression that Harrow left because Sid got fired. Harrow wanted Sid as the coach and I believe that was the main reason (or a just a big one) he choose State.

JNort
11-13-2012, 08:46 PM
I am not going to go through and read this whole thread, nor will I post on the in-game one either.

1) This is imo the weakest UK team since Cal arrived
2) Noel has not developed enough offensively yet to scare me and defensively he is still trying to adjust to a bigger faster game. Edge Plumlee and Duke
3) Young teams have trouble defending the screen which usually allows for open 3's and we got good shooters. Edge Duke
4) We are deeper in talent and hopefully can tire them out over 40 minutes. Edge Duke
5) Coach K or coach Cal? Edge Duke
6) The best time to beat UK is early in the year and well its game 2.


I honestly am not to worried about this game. I take Duke to win by 6+

JBDuke
11-13-2012, 09:02 PM
Snrub chat is back up! Come join us in the chat room if you want to interact with other Duke fans during the game:

http://snrub.com/

moonpie23
11-13-2012, 09:36 PM
let's rock!!

moonpie23
11-13-2012, 09:42 PM
sounds like we're outnumbered crowd wise.......considerably

riverside6
11-13-2012, 09:43 PM
Live tempo-based stats for the game here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=14408

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 09:48 PM
sounds like we're outnumbered crowd wise.......considerably

Always amazed me how well UK travels. I guess a lot of their fans plans their vacations around seeing UK once or twice a year in foreign cities.

Start has been up and down for both teams. Duke probably has played better but hasn't made UK pay. Duke doesn't look that more experienced at the moment.

COYS
11-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Duke battling on defense and doing well, so far. Ryan made a mistake by leaving Witjer open on that one broken UK possession, but otherwise we've done a good job keeping UK out of the lane. I thought we got unlucky with the first foul call, although Tyler's foot might have been on the line of the restricted area.

Offensively, we look really ragged. Rasheed has been decisive and quick, but neither Seth nor Tyler are creating much, right now. It's still REALLY early, though, so we'll see how the game develops and how the subs do.

sagegrouse
11-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Duke looks OK but is not finishing. Focus, guys, focus!

sagegrouse

Dukehky
11-13-2012, 09:52 PM
It seems like we aren't making enough of a concerted effort to get Mason the ball in the post. We're also essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense because Thornton is just taking himself out of the game after he brings the ball up the court. It looks like K is employing the old TT on the 6'8 slasher (like with Harrison Barnes last year). Personally, I'd rather see a 6'8 guy on a 6'8 guy, but if K doesn't think they're ready to go, then they're not ready to go.

We gotta hit the boards harder especially on defense or we are going to get absolutely demolished in the rebound category. Cannot give these kids more chances. Let's go boys.

jipops
11-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Start has been up and down for both teams. Duke probably has played better but hasn't made UK pay. Duke doesn't look that more experienced at the moment.

I was about to post the same thing. Duke does not come across as the more experienced team, atleast so far. The talent and quickness edge appears to go to UK.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 09:54 PM
Mason shouldn't be handling the ball that far out. That ball has to start sinking or we are going to be in trouble! I mean, it can't avoid the net forever...

COYS
11-13-2012, 09:55 PM
I was about to post the same thing. Duke does not come across as the more experienced team, atleast so far. The talent and quickness edge appears to go to UK.

Really interesting rotations. Alex and Amile got in before Quinn.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 09:55 PM
Mason shouldn't be handling the ball that far out.

Where have I heard that before?

COYS
11-13-2012, 09:56 PM
Where have I heard that before?

That play was set up by a bad pass by Tyler. Mason had to run out to grab the batted pass.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 09:56 PM
I was about to post the same thing. Duke does not come across as the more experienced team, atleast so far. The talent and quickness edge appears to go to UK.

Yeah, Duke doesn't want to get into an up and down, playground style type of game. You could just see it on the play when Sulaimon got blocked, UK wants to just play basketball and not run plays.

And can they stop mentioning Harrow like it is a huge loss for UK.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 09:58 PM
That play was set up by a bad pass by Tyler. Mason had to run out to grab the batted pass.

Yes, but some big men like Shelden Williams would pick the ball up, hold it above their head and give it to Dockery. Mason always gets caught dribbling the ball.

jipops
11-13-2012, 09:59 PM
UK overwhelming us with their quickness. We don't seem to have enough shooters to compensate.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 09:59 PM
Yes, but some big men like Shelden Williams would pick the ball up, hold it above their head and give it to Dockery. Mason always gets caught dribbling the ball.

Exactly. You're nearly 7 feet tall... you can play keep away from the little guards until you get a man open.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:01 PM
UK overwhelming us with their quickness. We don't seem to have enough shooters to compensate.

The ball has got to start falling... just playing the numbers alone.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Mason hangin' tough, so far. Get. Mason. The. Ball.

southgater
11-13-2012, 10:02 PM
Didn't realize my usual ESPN3 would be blacked out. Anybody watching on-line - haven't been able to find a link quickly.
Thanks

DukieInBrasil
11-13-2012, 10:04 PM
Duke battling on defense and doing well, so far. Ryan made a mistake by leaving Witjer open on that one broken UK possession, but otherwise we've done a good job keeping UK out of the lane. I thought we got unlucky with the first foul call, although Tyler's foot might have been on the line of the restricted area.

Offensively, we look really ragged. Rasheed has been decisive and quick, but neither Seth nor Tyler are creating much, right now. It's still REALLY early, though, so we'll see how the game develops and how the subs do.

Thankfully the refs are calling charges on Kentucky cuz otherwise we'd be getting blown out. Our offensive flow is non-existent and our defense has shown some holes inside, only made worse by that mystery second foul call on Mason. Weak rebounding and poor ball control need to get corrected ASAP

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 10:04 PM
Mason victimized by the classic "makeup call" is so frustrating!!!

This just isn't TT's type of game right now - UK is too big and too fast for him at this point.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:06 PM
Free Throws, ya'll. Make 'em.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 10:06 PM
Didn't realize my usual ESPN3 would be blacked out. Anybody watching on-line - haven't been able to find a link quickly.
Thanks

http://myrtv.eu/da748/ is a good one.

DukieInBrasil
11-13-2012, 10:06 PM
Didn't realize my usual ESPN3 would be blacked out. Anybody watching on-line - haven't been able to find a link quickly.
Thanks

justintv.com click on the sports button. or just use:
http://www.justin.tv/psychofmse#/w/4173458544

Ben1029
11-13-2012, 10:06 PM
According to ESPN Mason, Kelly, TT, Marshall and Rodney Hood are on the floor...:confused:

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:07 PM
Well we can show this tape to future big men recruits at the very least.

Nice stretch for a nice 5-0 run.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:07 PM
Nice sequence by Ryan. Blocked a Witjer shot in the post, ran the floor and made the layup. Gave the team some energy. I like to see that!

lotusland
11-13-2012, 10:08 PM
Didn't realize my usual ESPN3 would be blacked out. Anybody watching on-line - haven't been able to find a link quickly.
Thanks

All ESPN network games are blacked out live on ESPN3 this year. The only games available live will be the ESPN3 exclusive games.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:08 PM
Dang. Refs calling every touch foul in the post.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:10 PM
It may sound stupid, but does it worry anybody else that we don't have an extra big coming in for next year? Watching how thin we are with two bigs makes me think we REALLY need one.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:13 PM
It may sound stupid, but does it worry anybody else that we don't have an extra big coming in for next year? Watching how thin we are with two bigs makes me think we REALLY need one.

If Marshall were healthy, we wouldn't be quite as thin in this game. With Mason, Ryan, Marshall, and Josh (plus Alex and Amile as security) we'd be fine. But yes, it's obvious that everyone wanted another big next year. Jim Sumner has indicated that K might be looking for a one year stop-gap over the offseason.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 10:14 PM
It may sound stupid, but does it worry anybody else that we don't have an extra big coming in for next year? Watching how thin we are with two bigs makes me think we REALLY need one.

Marshall will (hopefully) be the 3rd Big sooner than later.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:15 PM
It may sound stupid, but does it worry anybody else that we don't have an extra big coming in for next year? Watching how thin we are with two bigs makes me think we REALLY need one.

Yes, especially since we'll be relying on Marshall and Josh/Amile to run the post. We've really yet to see what Marshall brings but Mason is still regarded as the best so we'll see. Josh seems limited and I really like Amile but he seems a bit undersized as a true PF in college.

follyblue
11-13-2012, 10:15 PM
Laetner is a bad I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.

grossbus
11-13-2012, 10:16 PM
We look very ragged at both ends. Someone besides mason and Seth has toake a shot.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:18 PM
We look very ragged at both ends. Someone besides mason and Seth has toake a shot.

On the other hand, it's great to see our seniors carrying us while our young guys get their feet. Rasheed had a NICE crossover on that last play even though he almost lost the ball and then threw a weak pass to Quinn who missed the three.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:19 PM
We look very ragged at both ends. Someone besides mason and Seth has toake a shot.

Well, they've taken shots, but they haven't really made them. I want Sulaimon to come through. Well, as I type this, Kelly for 3!

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:20 PM
WOW! Mason is the man!

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:20 PM
Well, they've taken shots, but they haven't really made them. I want Sulaimon to come through. Well, as I type this, Kelly for 3!

That pass to Mason right there is why we're all so excited about Quinn's potential.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 10:22 PM
I love Cook's aggression!!!

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:22 PM
Critical stretch here, for Duke. We hang tough early and now have a little momentum. First, Josh needs to knock down these foul shots, then Duke needs to play smart for the rest of the half and go into the second with both Ryan and Mason available with two fouls apiece. Credit K with smart rotations so far, keeping one of Ryan and Mason on the floor at a time even though both have two fouls.

acewatson
11-13-2012, 10:22 PM
I like the defense. Much improved over last year.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:23 PM
That pass to Mason right there is why we're all so excited about Quinn's potential.

True. I love what Quinn could do for this team. I am also really impressed with Amile. His handle is better than I expected. He has dribbled around them a few times. We have a better team than a lot of people realize (if we start hitting the shots).

grossbus
11-13-2012, 10:24 PM
"Well, they've taken shots, but they haven't really made them"

i meant to say make a shot, but fingers betrayed me.

i have to say i like the way we are pushing the ball and looking to score. been missing for a while.

would still like to see someone score in addition to seniors. :D

Dukehky
11-13-2012, 10:24 PM
We've started sending all 5 defenders to the boards. This is an excellent move. We don't really have the athletes to get out and run with these guys and our set offense > their set defense. Even if they're 6'1 guards hitting the glass, that's better than nobody. Great adjustment. Love Mason getting the ball. I don't want to see him for the rest of the half though. Can't afford him picking up a third foul in the first half.

Ryan Kelly, atta boy, way to d up. Keep shooting that rock baby.

Dukeface88
11-13-2012, 10:24 PM
We were playing way out of control early. Seem to have calmed down a lot.


Didn't realize my usual ESPN3 would be blacked out. Anybody watching on-line - haven't been able to find a link quickly.
Thanks

You can still watch it from ESPN; you just have to get there by clicking the link on the main front page.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 10:24 PM
Now if Kelly makes his FT's, perhaps K will take him out and try and sneak by with Amile/Hairston at the 4/5 spots. Hate to see a 3rd foul on Kelly or Mason.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:24 PM
I like the defense. Much improved over last year.

I second this! Amazing what an extra year of experience will do. Tyler, Quinn and Seth look like new men guarding on the perimeter. Amile and Alex are huge boosts off the bench.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:25 PM
I love Cook's aggression!!!

I think this shows why he needs to play PG. I think the concern is him/Curry in the back court is a bit of a defensive liability esp. with Sheed at the 3 but I think that is our best offensive system (if Murphy) isn't able to handle the 3. But I don't think Cook is bad on defense and the easy baskets he will produce are essential. Our whole team can run the court and if we have a selective fast break offense, Kelly, Mason and Curry will get tons of looks.

lotusland
11-13-2012, 10:25 PM
That pass to Mason right there is why we're all so excited about Quinn's potential.

It's great to see Duke get out and run again with Cook manning the point! Love the swagger from Quinn and Mason right now. Seth and Ryan making big contributions too.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:27 PM
We are settling for 3s a little much. I don't know if this is the year for that. We have some athletes that can get at the rim this year.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:28 PM
Big props to Josh for his D on Noel while Mason is out.

left_hook_lacey
11-13-2012, 10:28 PM
Did that UK fans shirt say "NOT CHEATING!"? @ around the 7:45 mark of the first half. Sitting beside the guy with the shirt that read "I still hate Laettner". Just before the Laettner court-side interview.

If anyone can confirm this, it would really make my day. Other than us winning, of course.

UrinalCake
11-13-2012, 10:30 PM
We've given them five straight points - not rebounding the airball by Noel which led to a three, then committing a lane violation on a missed free throw which led to two free throws. Gotta play smarter. Still, I think we're looking pretty good. Defense much improved over last year and transition game better too.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:31 PM
Gotta say, I love our team. We've got to stop that from happening, but what happened right before was pretty awesome. Sheed and Quinn have some good chemistry.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:31 PM
That last fast break by Quinn and Rasheed would have been impossible last year. Rasheed pushing the ball with speed and Quinn running by UK's whole defense to fill the wing and receive the pass for the easy lay-in.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 10:32 PM
Terrible job blocking out on the Poythress dunk. Need a good set play for Mason with Kelly/Curry on the wing for a quick pass out for 3.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:32 PM
Seth to the corner for a three to end the half. Mark it.

CLW
11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
lmao calimari accusing the entire duke team of flopping and claiming they would all be suspended in the nba.

lotusland
11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
Stay classy...

acewatson
11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
lmao calimari accusing the entire duke team of flopping and claiming they would all be suspended in the nba.

Wish he would go coach there

_Gary
11-13-2012, 10:36 PM
And in what will be a shock to no one here - Cal is a jerk and a liar!

southgater
11-13-2012, 10:36 PM
http://myrtv.eu/da748/ is a good one.

Thanks, I found the Justin link that DuKe in Brazil noted. It's the ESPN video with UK announcers. Thought I would hate it, but they are actually not that bad.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:36 PM
Well, I tried with that last post =).

Ok. Halftime report:

Defense: pretty good. UK has had a few O boards, but we've kept Witjer quiet save for one three. Poythress is a bit of a matchup problem, but so far, he's the only UK player who has really hurt us.

Offense: Whew. A bit ugly. Lots of missed shots for everyone not named Seth and Mason. Ryan has had his moments, but has also failed to convert a few open looks. Quinn and Rasheed warmed up a little bit in the closing minutes of the first. I hope they can continue to feel it going into the second.

Dang, Calipari taking off the gloves saying DUke players would be suspended in the NBA for flopping. While I think some of the things Cal has done behind the scenes smell a little fishy, I always thought he was a bit classier than that.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-13-2012, 10:36 PM
I have fallen in love with Duke defense all over again.

ChrisP
11-13-2012, 10:37 PM
Calipari is a first-class jerkweed. I saw at least 3 very distinct CHARGES where the UK player put his shoulder down and bowled over one of our guys. There might have been other calls that were closer, but John, we were not, "Flopping all over the place".

cbnaylor
11-13-2012, 10:37 PM
Sounds like Johnny Boy isn't as happy about the outcome of the 1st half after all. Really John? Flopping all over the place. Jerk.

gwlaw99
11-13-2012, 10:37 PM
lmao calimari accusing the entire duke team of flopping and claiming they would all be suspended in the nba.

Kinda shocked he said that. Total loss of composure.

91devil
11-13-2012, 10:38 PM
Dang, Calipari taking off the gloves saying DUke players would be suspended in the NBA for flopping. While I think some of the things Cal has done behind the scenes smell a little fishy, I always thought he was a bit classier than that.

Amen. Can't believe he just said that on National TV.

CLW
11-13-2012, 10:38 PM
poor shooting half sheed is really struggling with his jumper 0/7 but i like his (and several others) defensive intensity. if we can start making some shots and keep mason and kelly on the floor together we should be in good shape.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:39 PM
Dang, Calipari taking off the gloves saying DUke players would be suspended in the NBA for flopping. While I think some of the things Cal has done behind the scenes smell a little fishy, I always thought he was a bit classier than that.

Yeah, I was starting to come around to Cal b/c he talks about his players so lovingly, then he goes and does something like this. Not sure how K can exchange pleasantries with this man. Perhaps it is like before the Presidential Debate, smiling while really hating your opponent.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:39 PM
poor shooting half sheed is really struggling with his jumper 0/7 but i like his (and several others) defensive intensity. if we can start making some shots and keep mason and kelly on the floor together we should be in good shape.

To be fair, he's creating and he's taking care of the ball. He's got five assists according to the box score.

MartyClark
11-13-2012, 10:40 PM
"They are flopping all over the place. In the NBA they would be suspended". What a jerk.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:40 PM
poor shooting half sheed is really struggling with his jumper 0/7 but i like his (and several others) defensive intensity. if we can start making some shots and keep mason and kelly on the floor together we should be in good shape.

Sheed 0-7 but only forced 1 or 2 shots. Missed 3-4 shots I think he'll normally make later in the year. He is also stuffing the rest of the stat sheet with 5 boards, 5 assists, and no TO's.

J4Kop99
11-13-2012, 10:41 PM
I had to rewind that. Unbelievable

CLW
11-13-2012, 10:41 PM
To be fair, he's creating and he's taking care of the ball. He's got five assists according to the box score.

agreed he's not letting his poor shooting (he's not taking bad shots imho they just aren not falling) affect the rest of this game. for a frosh to keep playing hard despite the shooting is a good sign.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:43 PM
agreed he's not letting his poor shooting (he's not taking bad shots imho they just aren not falling) affect the rest of this game. for a frosh to keep playing hard despite the shooting is a good sign.

Completely agree. In some ways, if he plays well and helps the team even when he's not shooting well, that demonstrates to an even better degree how advanced he is in his understanding of the game. Those five boards are something we would likely have not gotten from the wing last year, either. They are key so far in this game.

CLW
11-13-2012, 10:44 PM
re: the "flopping" Cal might actually not believe it but being the used car salesman he couldn't resist a chance on live national t.v. to feed the perception to recruits that duke is soft and you learn how to "flop" playing for K

_Gary
11-13-2012, 10:45 PM
This will sound like a homer call, but I honestly can't think of one time in that first half where a Duke player flopped. I know we've got that reputation, and at times I'm not going to say we haven't done it in the past, but not tonight as best I can remember. Cal is just saying what's fashionable and hoping it will help him with calls in the 2nd half. I can't think of any other reason he'd be so stupid as to say such a thing on national TV.

EDIT: Good point as to a second possible reason for Cal's comments from CLW above me.

Eternal Outlaw
11-13-2012, 10:45 PM
Smells like Cal doesn't have faith in his team when he acting like a sore loser during halftime. And him mentioning foul trouble is awesome because K had to navigate with Mason and Ryan with 2 most the half. Pretty clear Cal knows he got out coached that half and it tastes bitter.

Chicken Little
11-13-2012, 10:45 PM
"They are flopping all over the place. In the NBA they would be suspended". What a jerk.

Let's talk more about who can do what in the NBA, Cal. How'd that stint in New Jersey go for you?

jv001
11-13-2012, 10:46 PM
"They are flopping all over the place. In the NBA they would be suspended". What a jerk.

Yeh, at Kentucky they get paid just like in the NBA. Beat this jerk and his paid players. GoDuke!

SCMatt33
11-13-2012, 10:47 PM
There's certainly issues to fix, but I think there are some big check marks for individual players, even after many of them did the opposite for the first 5-7 minutes.

-Mason is finally being aggressive and going towards the basket as his primary move. It's unbelievable how much this is opening up other opportunities.
-Ryan was pressing early, but showed a lot of poise and leadership to get in rhythm on the defensive end and bringing it to his offense.
-Quinn got lost on some plays early and got stuck, but he got himself in the open court and found some great passes by keeping his head up. He was able to carry this over to his half court game.
-Josh looked like a puppy dog let out of his crate early (which we've seen before). The first thing he did was take an 18 foot jumper and then sell out and get beaten badly on defense. He played within himself after that and got some key rebounds and ran the floor and got to the line.
-Seth was just Seth. He took his shots, but didn't try to take over when it wasn't needed.

There was some bad play early, but it was good to see this team recover in a big way against a hostile crowd. Early on, the mistakes were very passive. They got the ball poked out from behind several times, and were bobbling the ball. They were a lot stronger later on and I saw a Duke team that was well positioned on D and got in passing lanes like Duke teams of old.

The one big caveat is that UK does not have a true point guard who can play at a high level right now and it's really affecting their offense. Duke is doing a great job taking advantage of it though.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:47 PM
re: the "flopping" Cal might actually not believe it but being the used car salesman he couldn't resist a chance on live national t.v. to feed the perception to recruits that duke is soft and you learn how to "flop" playing for K

Well, Cal is simply stating facts. You should have seen how Lebron, Kobe, Melo and co. flopped their way to a gold medal this summer!

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:48 PM
This will sound like a homer call, but I honestly can't think of one time in that first half where a Duke player flopped. I know we've got that reputation, and at times I'm not going to say we haven't done it in the past, but not tonight as best I can remember. Cal is just saying what's fashionable and hoping it will help him with calls in the 2nd half. I can't think of any other reason he'd be so stupid as to say such a thing on national TV.

The thing is, Duke is taught to put themselves in a position to make the ref make a call. Like if you remember the one break, Kelly actively tried to draw a charge. Some will call it flopping, but it is good defense. Most defenders will either give up an easy basket or foul the guy. Duke tries to get in their way.

This is somewhat of a revolutionary thing so naturally people are against it but I love how everyone blames Duke/the refs. There is one simple way to stop it, come to a jump stop and jump over a stationary defender. Instead of blaming someone else, adapt.

grossbus
11-13-2012, 10:48 PM
I have NEVER thought cal had ANY class.

We should be up 10.

Am OK with our D. A little better production at the offensive end and we should be OK.

Glad to see Murphy got in. Would like to see more from him.

Native
11-13-2012, 10:49 PM
I hope the guys catch wind of the flopping comment.

Break 'em.

cbnaylor
11-13-2012, 10:49 PM
I have NEVER thought cal had ANY class.

We should be up 10.

Am OK with our D. A little better production at the offensive end and we should be OK.

Glad to see Murphy got in. Would like to see more from him.

Dito. I thought Murphy looked really good. I liked his energy.

grossbus
11-13-2012, 10:49 PM
No band or cheerleaders???

Son of Mojo
11-13-2012, 10:50 PM
Too many missed shots and FT's. Hopefully a few more will sink this half. Post guys need to keep their hands up to avoid fouls and distract UK's post play. Decent 1st half that I hope gets followed by better play this half.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:50 PM
This is somewhat of a revolutionary thing so naturally people are against it but I love how everyone blames Duke/the refs. There is one simple way to stop it, come to a jump stop and jump over a stationary defender. Instead of blaming someone else, adapt.

Spot on! The defender is entitled to his position. Honestly, if refs called charges without the defender hitting the ground, Duke players would be taught to stay on their feet. They could call it like that and be within the rules, but they don't. Hence, you gotta get position, and if you get hit, you gotta go down. That being said, I'm pretty sure two out of the three charges were pretty legit. Poythress is a big dude and hit Rasheed pretty hard for that last one, at the very least.

pfrduke
11-13-2012, 10:50 PM
Cook starting the second half.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:50 PM
Well, Cal is simply stating facts. You should have seen how Lebron, Kobe, Melo and co. flopped their way to a gold medal this summer!

What do we expect? He can't really say that he can't coach like K, and that is the answer.

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 10:52 PM
Spot on! The defender is entitled to his position. Honestly, if refs called charges without the defender hitting the ground, Duke players would be taught to stay on their feet. They could call it like that and be within the rules, but they don't. Hence, you gotta get position, and if you get hit, you gotta go down. That being said, I'm pretty sure two out of the three charges were pretty legit. Poythress is a big dude and hit Rasheed pretty hard for that last one, at the very least.

Exactly. Shane Battier said this when referring to his concern about the new flopping rule. He wouldn't fall down if he didn't have to. It is similar to most sports where embellishment is necessary b/c the refs either don't see everything or are reluctant to call things that don't result in someone on the ground.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:57 PM
Two great looks by Mason for threes by Rasheed and Quinn. His passing has always been underrated.

COYS
11-13-2012, 10:59 PM
Exactly. Shane Battier said this when referring to his concern about the new flopping rule. He wouldn't fall down if he didn't have to. It is similar to most sports where embellishment is necessary b/c the refs either don't see everything or are reluctant to call things that don't result in someone on the ground.

Honestly, it's something that the basketball powers that be should address if they really want to stop "flopping." Personally, I don't mind "flopping" as it's a risk on the defender's part. We've seen it with Duke many times where one of our guys will go to the ground looking for the charge only to hear no whistle and then be lying on the ground while the opposing team grabs an offensive board and scores.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 10:59 PM
It is early, but the chemistry looks good on this team. Mason is making everyone around him better, and we already have some very good players.

COYS
11-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Ouch, Mason either misjudges terribly or loses his footing, runs into Noel, and gets his 4th foul.

Son of Mojo
11-13-2012, 11:03 PM
Why was Mason guarding that far out again........?

moonpie23
11-13-2012, 11:04 PM
getting ragged again.....:(

grossbus
11-13-2012, 11:04 PM
Dumb foul leads to a bunch of dumb plays. Settle down!!

Duke76
11-13-2012, 11:04 PM
Ouch, Mason either misjudges terribly or loses his footing, runs into Noel, and gets his 4th foul.


He had been reaching all night long...gotta use your head...leading scorer just put your team at big disadvantage

CDu
11-13-2012, 11:05 PM
Why was Mason guarding that far out again........?

Dumb foul. Dumb foul. Hopefully we survive it.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:05 PM
Just had a bad flashback to 04 FF game against UCONN - Sheldon fouling at the 3 point line!

Probably won't see Mason until 10 minute mark unless we're down a bunch.

Eternal Outlaw
11-13-2012, 11:08 PM
Well, can't blame Tyler for not trying to box out, can't help he gets muscled and pushed

burns15
11-13-2012, 11:10 PM
Well, can't blame Tyler for not trying to box out, can't help he gets muscled and pushed

Why do we insist on playing three guards smaller than 6'2'' against a team with pro size?? When we have both Murphy and Jefferson on the bunch. I'm sorry, I am K's biggest supporter, but this just doesn't make any sense

lotusland
11-13-2012, 11:13 PM
We're finding ways to score with Mason out but I'd rather see Alex or Amile at 3 than 3 guards while Mason is out. Doesn't matter as long as the shots keep falling though.

acewatson
11-13-2012, 11:14 PM
Well I would agree with you but... we extended our lead since he has been out.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:16 PM
They lowered the shoulder on Hairston. That was a bad call.

On another note, I love Sulaimon. I really can't say how much I like this team so far. They are showing balance that I am not used to seeing anymore. It isn't a big 3 or a big 1, it is a team of contributors that get it done.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:17 PM
Of course, because we're up at the moment, it's easy to say but I love the energy our team is showing right now, from the bench, coaches, "role" players and starters. Great Chemistry!

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-13-2012, 11:17 PM
Why do we insist on playing three guards smaller than 6'2'' against a team with pro size?? When we have both Murphy and Jefferson on the bunch. I'm sorry, I am K's biggest supporter, but this just doesn't make any sense
Right, because we're winning and all. So, surely, it couldn't possibly make any sense. We have to be taller to win...

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:19 PM
Of course, because we're up at the moment, it's easy to say but I love the energy our team is showing right now, from the bench, coaches, "role" players and starters. Great Chemistry!

Not just that (although the lead helps). I am not used to more than two or three guys scoring. We are getting put backs, some fast break points, playing solid D against an athletic team. It is balanced. Last year, it pained me to see us settling with Austin as being our only offense in key moments. This is something that can hurt our oppenents. They can't just shut down one guy. We have athletes that can make plays.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:20 PM
Mason coming back at the 10 minute mark, up 11 - visions of 04 returning...:(

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 11:22 PM
Mason coming back at the 10 minute mark, up 11 - visions of 04 returning...:(

K always preaches trust in his players. It is early and I think some of his logic is that putting a player out there now allows him to have as much time on the court. If you put him in under 4, he is only going to get at most 4.

cbnaylor
11-13-2012, 11:22 PM
We are up 10. Keep Mason out. We don't need him yet.

acewatson
11-13-2012, 11:23 PM
Why did we just switch to the zone? Was I not paying attention and we have done that all game?

lotusland
11-13-2012, 11:24 PM
We are up 10. Keep Mason out. We don't need him yet.

especially when he is playing so tenative on D

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:27 PM
Poythress=NBA

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:27 PM
We may need to put more size in. I say that because Poythress is starting to realize that he is a matchup problem.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-13-2012, 11:28 PM
Yikes. Kelly decision making a bit suspect here in the waning minutes.

cbnaylor
11-13-2012, 11:29 PM
We just need to put Hairston back in and get his 5th. :) At least they will stop with the alley loop crap.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:30 PM
Yikes. Kelly decision making a bit suspect here in the waning minutes.

Agreed. But at least he's being aggressive and looking for his shot.

That said, the ball should be in Curry and Mason's hands down the stretch.

DukieInBrasil
11-13-2012, 11:30 PM
Mason coming back at the 10 minute mark, up 11 - visions of 04 returning...:(

But Mason got a clean block on Nerlens and bothered the follow up shot for a miss.

Ryan Kelly's decision making on shooting has been terrible tonight, he's decided that he needs to shoot contested threes and drifting mid-range shots. Otherwise his play has been ok, but his shot selection has been poor.

Sulaimon is getting abused by Poythress. Rasheed has hit some big 3s this half, but it still surprises me that we haven't seen more of Amile o Alex.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:33 PM
Agreed. But at least he's being aggressive and looking for his shot.

That said, the ball should be in Curry and Mason's hands down the stretch.


uh.. maybe not.

DukieInBrasil
11-13-2012, 11:34 PM
wth just happened? How did we just cough up 11 points off our lead? A: terrible shot selection and getting super tight on offense. Mason, don't dribble in the lane again, or Noel will steal it from you, yet again.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:34 PM
It was all white jerseys underneath our basket after that last miss.

cbnaylor
11-13-2012, 11:36 PM
They just have to make this game too close.......now I'm wired and nervous.

COYS
11-13-2012, 11:37 PM
Seth has a chance to settle us a bit with a one-in-one coming up. He needs to knock this down and then we need to play defense like we have during stretches this night. Force a jumper. They aren't good at those. Box out. Rebound. Set up the offense.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:38 PM
UK shot selection is keeping us afloat. This game reminds me a little of the MSU game at NYC last year. Let's see if we can hold on. My guess is YES.

Billy Dat
11-13-2012, 11:40 PM
Stay positive...this game has been really exciting...let's see if we can hang on.

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:40 PM
If we lose, it will be because of the game we let Poythress have.

COYS
11-13-2012, 11:41 PM
Seth made the free throws. But Rasheed and Tyler are no patch for Poythress on the boards. Still, Seth made a shot to keep UK down by five. Play good defense again. Make them work for whatever they get. NO BAD FOULS!

Billy Dat
11-13-2012, 11:43 PM
Just gotta get to the line and hit them now.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-13-2012, 11:44 PM
If we lose, it will be because of the game we let Poythress have.


Poythress is doing his best Shawn Marion impersonation tonight. I don't think we let him have anything, he came out and took it.

Buzzy Duke
11-13-2012, 11:45 PM
Pythress is a beast. We didn't have a good matchup for him. It has nothing to do with the game we "let" him have...

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:45 PM
Now, just close it out.

Billy Dat
11-13-2012, 11:45 PM
K keeps yelling "no 3s!"

Gthoma2a
11-13-2012, 11:46 PM
Pythress is a beast. We didn't have a good matchup for him. It has nothing to do with the game we "let" him have...

We could have put someone with more size on him. I am not saying it makes a huge difference, but I would rest easier knowing we had a big body on him. It would slow him down from going to the corner and crashing the boards over his man.

Billy Dat
11-13-2012, 11:46 PM
Keep giving it to Curry.

cbnaylor
11-13-2012, 11:47 PM
We could have put someone with more size on him. I am not saying it makes a huge difference, but I would rest easier knowing we had a big body on him.
aka Alex Murphy

sporthenry
11-13-2012, 11:49 PM
aka Alex Murphy

I would have put Amile on him actually. I thought that was some of what he was brought in for.