Seth Curry with a stress fracture

[Lord Ash]

Per K.

That is not very good news:(

[chrisheery]

Per K.

That is not very good news:(

Link?

[Cameron]

Per K.

That is not very good news:(

I am no Doogie Howser, but I am guessing that means no Kentucky. That sucks.

This sounds like a situation that will linger throughout the year, too. So disappointing and so damn frustrating.

Get well soon, Seth.

[moonpie23]

arrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

bummer

[Greg_Newton]

Was told it was confirmed by K tonight in a Q&A session for his fundraising event. Twitter handle "@dukeforum" has been reporting it for a week or two, FWIW.

Sounds like it might not keep Seth out entirely for any period of time, but will be a nagging thing at the very least. Unfortunate.

[licc85]

This is awful news for Seth, especially since he's a senior. I hope he is able recover fully and return to the team when he is ready, but in the meantime, I don't see this as a HUGE blow to the season as a whole.

Both Seth and Marshall should be back and close to full strength before conference play begins, and in their absence, guys like Rasheed, Quinn, Amile and Alex should see way more game minutes than they would have otherwise. I see this as possibly a blessing in disguise, and could make our team stronger in the long run. (As long as no one else gets hurt)

I'm not sure if this analogy totally fits, but Kyrie broke his right hand this summer, and while it healed, he practiced shooting with his left hand quite a bit and has now added a left-handed floater to his game that probably would not exist had the injury not occurred. I guess a closer analogy to this is in 2000-01 when Boozer broke his foot and Casey Sanders stepped up in his absence. I'm not sure if we win the title in 2001 without Sanders playing at that level, and I'm almost positive he doesn't get there without the Boozer injury.

Getting more minutes to our other guys who need the experience may increase their confidence and team chemistry to a level that may not have happened otherwise. We know what to expect from a veteran like Seth, and we should get that same level of production from him when he returns.

So, in short, I'm not saying this is good news, (quite the opposite), but we have the depth to handle this loss for now, and there's a possibility it could help our team in the long run. As long as everyone is healthy late in the year, we should be good to go.

[dukeofcalabash]

If he's gonna miss a lot of time, it would be best to keep him out of the lineup and let the team "jell" naturally with players earning their playing time. Seth already had "speed" or "quickness" issues and this injury now puts that issue clearly in view. I'm afraid that he will be more of a lame duck on defense.

[wavedukefan70s]

Hope the best for him.it may help others develop though.i believe that could be a good thing.

[Bluealum]

Per K.

That is not very good news:(

Any talk of a medical redshirt? Is that even a possibility for Seth? I think it is based on prior board discussions but am not sure he would get one. Might not be ideal for the team with Andre coming back along with all of our guards plus Matt Jones next year, but for Seth having a senior season with healthy legs may be a real consideration if this is an option. It's no fun playing on a stress fracture....

[roywhite]

Sorry if this was explained previously, but:

Is this a new development? Or just a more firm, public diagnosis of a problem we generally knew about?
Is this the type of injury that he could "play through" to some extent, or is total rest a better treatment?
Other details about likely duration of injury?

thanks..

Good luck, Seth; sucks having this happen your senior season; hang in there.

[Bluedog]

I think there is some confusion as to whether it's a stress fracture or a stress reaction, but I wasn't at the press conference, so can't confirm either way. Also, I'm not a doctor, so don't necessarily know the difference. However, this is NOT a new injury or diagnosis as best I can tell. It's just basically the first time they've given a more concrete diagnosis to the public. He's been resting for about two months after the injury occurred, and it sounds like it's basically something that will be a nagging injury and may give Seth some pain and discomfort - but that he can play through it. If it was an injury where re-injury was a major concern, there is absolutely NO WAY that Coach K would have allowed Seth to play in an exhibition. Thus, I'd imagine Seth will continue to rest as much as possible off the court for the next month or two, while continuing to play during games. It's just a matter of how much it bothers him and affects his performance on the court and if he's rusty from not practicing as much. Although, obviously, each injury is unique so it's possible the timeframe could be significantly longer/shorter.

[MCFinARL]

Any talk of a medical redshirt? Is that even a possibility for Seth? I think it is based on prior board discussions but am not sure he would get one. Might not be ideal for the team with Andre coming back along with all of our guards plus Matt Jones next year, but for Seth having a senior season with healthy legs may be a real consideration if this is an option. It's no fun playing on a stress fracture....

To get a sixth year to complete his eligibility, he'd need to apply for a waiver. Not sure, but I think it might make a difference that his first redshirt year was due to transfer and not to injury.

It doesn't sound, from the way Seth and Coach K have been talking about this so far, like they are thinking about a possible redshirt, but that's just based on published remarks; I have absolutely no inside information.

[noworries]

Sorry if this was explained previously, but:

Is this a new development? Or just a more firm, public diagnosis of a problem we generally knew about?
Is this the type of injury that he could "play through" to some extent, or is total rest a better treatment?
Other details about likely duration of injury?

thanks..

Good luck, Seth; sucks having this happen your senior season; hang in there.

If he tries to play through a stress fracture, or even a stress reaction, it's going to get worse. hA period of rest from competition is necessary to let the bone heal, and follow it up with progressive return to play. Depending on severity of the stress reaction/fracture, it can take anywhere from 4-8 weeks, given the individual doesn't have any setbacks. If it's indeed a stress fracture, he's gotta shut it down.

[dcar1985]

This doesn't sound like a new injury IMO...a stress fracture is a common occurrence in someone struggling with shin splints....just cause its being called that now doesn't mean it's new. That's most likely the reason he's been shut down the past couple of months, nothing you can really do about shin splints but rest. I find it encouraging that he was able to go in the exhibition and hopefully he doesn't have a set back.

[Cameron]

This doesn't sound like a new injury IMO...a stress fracture is a common occurrence in someone struggling with shin splints....just cause its being called that now doesn't mean it's new. That's most likely the reason he's been shut down the past couple of months, nothing you can really do about shin splints but rest. I find it encouraging that he was able to go in the exhibition and hopefully he doesn't have a set back.

Yeah, I kind of read it that way at first -- as if it were a new injury to an already preexisting one -- but I think you are probably right. Hopefully, Seth getting some good burn in the previous exhibition is a good sign that he'll be available for UK. We will need his fearlessness on the perimeter to spark our outside shooting.

As there often tends to be, however, there is a silver lining. Any time that Seth cannot be on the floor means that Rasheed is, and that is only going ot help speed up the kid's acclimation to big-time ACC hoops and help us build for the future. That said, I hope that Seth gets back to normal ASAP. He's as good as it gets from behind the arc.

[Reisen]

Hope he gets a medical redshirt, if possible. No fun to go through the season in constant pain, and remember, these are kids (and amatuers, at that), not NBA players.

He's good enough to earn his PT next year, even if we're crowded at guard.

[Cameron]

Hope he gets a medical redshirt, if possible. No fun to go through the season in constant pain, and remember, these are kids (and amatuers, at that), not NBA players.

He's good enough to earn his PT next year, even if we're crowded at guard.

I thought I remember reading somewhere that if a traditional redshirt has already been exhausted, in which in Seth's case it already has, that an additional medical redshirt is no longer an option. But that if it were the other way around, and a medical redshirt were taken first, then a player would still have the option of a traditional redshirt on the table. I could be way off here, though.

Say Seth were hypothetically granted a medical redshirt, I wonder what that would mean for Andre Dawkins? While both his mother and father have firmly indicated that Andre intends to play basketball again next year for Duke, Seth coming back might change those plans. That would be a loaded perimeter with Cook, Curry, Jones, Hood, Thornton and Dawkins. I'm not sure there'd be enough PT to go around, or at least enough to satisfy all parties.

[Reisen]

I've got to believe a transfer has done something season-ending like tear an ACL before. Would seem really poor to make the player waste a year of eligibility.

[COYS]

This is really sad news for Seth and for the team. I hope he has a speedy recovery and can play without limitations later in the year!

Meanwhile, Rasheed, Quinn, and Tyler can hold down the fort until Seth is ready to play at full strength.

[Cameron]

I've got to believe a transfer has done something season-ending like tear an ACL before. Would seem really poor to make the player waste a year of eligibility.

You are probably right. I probably had the situations reversed. I am sure somebody will come to the rescue and clear things up...

[jv001]

Seth seemed confident after the Winston Salem State game that he would be able to play on the injured leg. If the stress fracture came soon after that game, I doubt we see him Friday night. Good luck Seth and get better soon. God bless you young man and GoDuke!

[CDu]

You are probably right. I probably had the situations reversed. I am sure somebody will come to the rescue and clear things up...

Pretty sure it doesn't matter whether you used your redshirt for medical reasons or for transfer reasons. You have to apply for an extra year in either case, and the NCAA may or may not grant it in either case. I could be wrong, but that's what I think is true.

[Philly_B]

Pretty sure it doesn't matter whether you used your redshirt for medical reasons or for transfer reasons. You have to apply for an extra year in either case, and the NCAA may or may not grant it in either case. I could be wrong, but that's what I think is true.

http://www.foxsportsnorth.com/11/05/12/Mbakwe-to-repay-Gophers-scholarship/landing_gophers.html?blockID=814957&feedID=3697

This is a link to Mbakwe. He transferred from Marquette to Minn a while back, then declared Medical redshirt after an appeal I believe. So its possible just not a given I suppose.

[sporthenry]

At worst case he could protest to the NCAA for a red shirt but I don't think this will be the case. I think he'll play for Duke, just when and how long will be the question. It obviously depends upon the doctors and such but if its just a pain thing and all that, I'd like to see him sit out either completely for a few weeks or just play sparingly. This will give Sheed, Murphy, Cook, and Amile the chance to get some PT early in the season.

[Dukehky]

At worst case he could protest to the NCAA for a red shirt but I don't think this will be the case. I think he'll play for Duke, just when and how long will be the question. It obviously depends upon the doctors and such but if its just a pain thing and all that, I'd like to see him sit out either completely for a few weeks or just play sparingly. This will give Sheed, Murphy, Cook, and Amile the chance to get some PT early in the season.

Completely agree. Shut it down until you're at least 90 percent and can sustain that 90 percent. This is the beginning of the season, we have young players who we can afford to play now. It's early in the season. Pre-season tournament wins, high rankings are great, but ACC and NCAA tournaments wins are our goal, and Seth's being healthy at the end of the year is what's going to help us there, as will the added experience that the younger/bench guys will obtain if he sits out.

[Greg_Newton]

Sorry if this was explained previously, but:

Is this a new development? Or just a more firm, public diagnosis of a problem we generally knew about?
Is this the type of injury that he could "play through" to some extent, or is total rest a better treatment?
Other details about likely duration of injury?

thanks..

Good luck, Seth; sucks having this happen your senior season; hang in there.

It's definitely the same thing that's him bothering him for a while, although it does still seem a little murky whether it's actually a "fracture" vs. "reaction", etc., and how long he's had this specific diagnosis - I wish I understood the nature of the injury a little better, but it sounds like the kind of issue that could have been unclear during the initial scans/diagnosis several months ago. Seth hadn't played 5 on 5 since September 10th before last week, so it's something they've been monitoring.

From my understanding, they did look into the possibility of the whole medical RS/waiver scenario, but they didn't seem likely to go that route as of a couple weeks ago. Not sure if anything's changed.

[DukieinSoCal]

Completely agree. Shut it down until you're at least 90 percent and can sustain that 90 percent. This is the beginning of the season, we have young players who we can afford to play now. It's early in the season. Pre-season tournament wins, high rankings are great, but ACC and NCAA tournaments wins are our goal, and Seth's being healthy at the end of the year is what's going to help us there, as will the added experience that the younger/bench guys will obtain if he sits out.

I doubt that the staff would allow him to play unless he could be effective and would not be risking further injury. Even if Seth hadn't been hurt, a 6th man/sniper role might have been the best spot for him on this team, anyways. He can now play in 10-15 minute spurts where conditioning and aggravating his injury won't be as much of a concern. As a senior, I would expect that he could handle coming off the bench to spark our offense when needed.

And having Sheed develop faster by starting at SG might prove to be the best thing for this team in the long run. His athleticism and defensive mindset could be exactly what this team needs. Although experience is tremendously valuable, it's no secret that Seth is somewhat limited athletically and defensively. I could see this situation working out great for everyone involved.

[elvis14]

If Seth has to miss time or has to play fewer minutes at the beginning of the season this could help us out in the long run. If Rasheed, for example, takes those minutes and comes up to speed, by midyear would could have a healthy Seth and a more experienced Rasheed. I'm using Rasheed as an example but it could mean that Quinn also gets more minutes (or someone else). Just trying to list the glass half-full side of Seth's injury.

[jimsumner]

If Seth has to miss time or has to play fewer minutes at the beginning of the season this could help us out in the long run. If Rasheed, for example, takes those minutes and comes up to speed, by midyear would could have a healthy Seth and a more experienced Rasheed. I'm using Rasheed as an example but it could mean that Quinn also gets more minutes (or someone else). Just trying to list the glass half-full side of Seth's injury.

A prolonged absence by Curry would also give more minutes to Murphy/Jefferson, because Sulaimon would be playing almost all of his minutes at the 2, leaving more time at the 3 for the two freshmen.

[jimrowe0]

A prolonged absence by Curry would also give more minutes to Murphy/Jefferson, because Sulaimon would be playing almost all of his minutes at the 2, leaving more time at the 3 for the two freshmen.

Jim, I am confused. I thought this was just an update on the actually prognoses of the injury, not something that occurred during the exhibition game. Is Seth expected to miss time or is his status still game to game? If he has been battling this injury and seemed optimistic after the scrimmage then why all the talk about prolonged absence?

[Newton_14]

Jim, I am confused. I thought this was just an update on the actually prognoses of the injury, not something that occurred during the exhibition game. Is Seth expected to miss time or is his status still game to game? If he has been battling this injury and seemed optimistic after the scrimmage then why all the talk about prolonged absence?

I hope Jim will answer, and not intending to speak for him. Just sharing info. K said in the post-game after Seth played 17 minutes, that they would "see how the leg responded" to the minutes the next day, and then come up with a plan. I assume the leg did not respond well the next day, and I understand Seth experienced both pain and swelling.

It is not a new injury. Not sure why they waited this long to announce it was a stress fracture, but he did not suffer a stress fracture in that game. It's just what the injury was all along.

I am not a doctor, don't play one on TV, and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but if the injury can heal in 6 weeks, I would hope they shut him down to let it heal, and we get him back in late December on a healthy leg.

For the doctors on the forum, can a stress fracture of the shin heal in 6-8 weeks or so? The confusing part to me is the talk that he will deal with it all year. Does that mean a stress fracture of the shin takes so long to heal there is no way he could come back this year fully healthy? Thanks in advance...

[dcar1985]

I hope Jim will answer, and not intending to speak for him. Just sharing info. K said in the post-game after Seth played 17 minutes, that they would "see how the leg responded" to the minutes the next day, and then come up with a plan. I assume the leg did not respond well the next day, and I understand Seth experienced both pain and swelling.

It is not a new injury. Not sure why they waited this long to announce it was a stress fracture, but he did not suffer a stress fracture in that game. It's just what the injury was all along.

I am not a doctor, don't play one on TV, and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but if the injury can heal in 6 weeks, I would hope they shut him down to let it heal, and we get him back in late December on a healthy leg.

For the doctors on the forum, can a stress fracture of the shin heal in 6-8 weeks or so? The confusing part to me is the talk that he will deal with it all year. Does that mean a stress fracture of the shin takes so long to heal there is no way he could come back this year fully healthy? Thanks in advance...


Im surprised no one else can speak on this...Being in the Military and all the running we do, I've had issues w/ shin splints, they're pretty painful, just a sharp pain during impact. I experienced this pain for probably a few months most likely due to me continuing to run on it 3-4 times a week and play ball on it pretty often. It wasn't something that was debilitating but it definitely was a painful experience. If Seth has been shut down for 2 months to rest, which is pretty much all you can do for shin splints then hopefully he's had time enough to heal to the point he can contribute during the season. But it is definitely a injury that can linger and come back even after all pain has subsided. I don't believe Seth will be completely shut down but more on a day to day thing where if he can go and its not to much pain he'll play if not he'll sit and im sure they'll monitor his minutes during games and practice.

[Kedsy]

Im surprised no one else can speak on this...Being in the Military and all the running we do, I've had issues w/ shin splints, they're pretty painful, just a sharp pain during impact. I experienced this pain for probably a few months most likely due to me continuing to run on it 3-4 times a week and play ball on it pretty often. It wasn't something that was debilitating but it definitely was a painful experience. If Seth has been shut down for 2 months to rest, which is pretty much all you can do for shin splints then hopefully he's had time enough to heal to the point he can contribute during the season. But it is definitely a injury that can linger and come back even after all pain has subsided. I don't believe Seth will be completely shut down but more on a day to day thing where if he can go and its not to much pain he'll play if not he'll sit and im sure they'll monitor his minutes during games and practice.

I've had shin splints, too (and, frankly, they never really go away; you live with the issue and the pain forever), but there's a difference between that and a stress fracture, no?

[dcar1985]

I've had shin splints, too (and, frankly, they never really go away; you live with the issue and the pain forever), but there's a difference between that and a stress fracture, no?

Yea but I'm operating under the assumption that the "stress fracture" isn't new and that it's likely the reason he's been sidelined the last two months and that it's somewhat progressing seeing as he was able to play last week....doubt he plays an exhibition game on a fairly new stress fracture

[NSDukeFan]

Is it too early or too late to say: "It's over!"

[Indoor66]

Is it too early or too late to say: "It's over!"

It is never too early to declare Its Over.

[jipops]

I think this does make the ACC a two-team race between the Wolfpack and the Heels. My hope is that Curry is feeling well enough to give us a nice push by February and March to make this matter less - though the path in the tournament could then be that much tougher by then.

This is frustrating. Finally we believe we have a true pg to go with experienced big men, and then our best and only experienced perimeter scorer could effectively be shut down.

[billy]

Yea but I'm operating under the assumption that the "stress fracture" isn't new and that it's likely the reason he's been sidelined the last two months and that it's somewhat progressing seeing as he was able to play last week....doubt he plays an exhibition game on a fairly new stress fracture

My assumption has been that it was a stress fracture. No inside knowledge. Shin splints can typically be played through, including conditioning, while healing with proper physical therapy. Stress reactions are sort of an intermediate stage between shin splints and stress fractures, but the terms stress fracture and stress reactions may be used interchangeably at times. A stress fracture typically would be diagnosed by x-ray where a fracture (black line on the white bone) would be visible. Stress reaction would be diagnosed by MRI, which I assume is the case in Curry's case. The key is finding a balance between being able to maintain proper aerobic conditioning without overloading the bone (thereby maintaining the "lesion" or worsening it) and letting it heal. Very similar to Marshall Plumlee situation except I imagine a milder lesion on imaging. Couple of authoritative references:

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00112

http://www.sportsmed.org/uploadedFiles/Content/Patient/Sports_Tips/ST%20Stress%20Fractures%2008.pdf

[jimrowe0]

According to a few sources, it looks like Seth will be starting this Friday. It will interesting to see how well he plays and for how long.

[wgl1228]

Paging Andre Dawkins to to give your red-shirt to Seth and come play.

[devildeac]

I hope Jim will answer, and not intending to speak for him. Just sharing info. K said in the post-game after Seth played 17 minutes, that they would "see how the leg responded" to the minutes the next day, and then come up with a plan. I assume the leg did not respond well the next day, and I understand Seth experienced both pain and swelling.

It is not a new injury. Not sure why they waited this long to announce it was a stress fracture, but he did not suffer a stress fracture in that game. It's just what the injury was all along.

I am not a doctor, don't play one on TV, and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but if the injury can heal in 6 weeks, I would hope they shut him down to let it heal, and we get him back in late December on a healthy leg.

For the doctors on the forum, can a stress fracture of the shin heal in 6-8 weeks or so? The confusing part to me is the talk that he will deal with it all year. Does that mean a stress fracture of the shin takes so long to heal there is no way he could come back this year fully healthy? Thanks in advance...


My assumption has been that it was a stress fracture. No inside knowledge. Shin splints can typically be played through, including conditioning, while healing with proper physical therapy. Stress reactions are sort of an intermediate stage between shin splints and stress fractures, but the terms stress fracture and stress reactions may be used interchangeably at times. A stress fracture typically would be diagnosed by x-ray where a fracture (black line on the white bone) would be visible. Stress reaction would be diagnosed by MRI, which I assume is the case in Curry's case. The key is finding a balance between being able to maintain proper aerobic conditioning without overloading the bone (thereby maintaining the "lesion" or worsening it) and letting it heal. Very similar to Marshall Plumlee situation except I imagine a milder lesion on imaging. Couple of authoritative references:

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00112

http://www.sportsmed.org/uploadedFiles/Content/Patient/Sports_Tips/ST%20Stress%20Fractures%2008.pdf

I'll certainly defer to billy here but I'll relate an experience of one. My son had a tibial stress fracture junior year of HS from probably waaay too much soccer. And probably taking one too many cleats to the shins:mad:. His was diagnosed with a bone scan and he was shut down from soccer for about 4-6 weeks. Technically, until he was pain free. He may have even seen one of billy's associates;). Specifically, no running or "cutting," activities which could lead to a fracture. He stayed in shape by swimming an hour a day plus swim meets and with stationary cycling. Took him another 2-4 weeks to get back in game shape and he played the rest of spring season (at a very high level) with no ill effects. I suspected as much when this was first announced so it does not surprise me that much to hear it announced officially.

Get well soon, Seth.

And BTW, it's much too early to declare "it's over.":rolleyes:;) I'll guess (hope) he's back by late December.

[dcar1985]

I'll certainly defer to billy here but I'll relate an experience of one. My son had a tibial stress fracture junior year of HS from probably waaay too much soccer. And probably taking one too many cleats to the shins:mad:. His was diagnosed with a bone scan and he was shut down from soccer for about 4-6 weeks. Technically, until he was pain free. He may have even seen one of billy's associates;). Specifically, no running or "cutting," activities which could lead to a fracture. He stayed in shape by swimming an hour a day plus swim meets and with stationary cycling. Took him another 2-4 weeks to get back in game shape and he played the rest of spring season (at a very high level) with no ill effects. I suspected as much when this was first announced so it does not surprise me that much to hear it announced officially.

Get well soon, Seth.

And BTW, it's much too early to declare "it's over.":rolleyes:;) I'll guess (hope) he's back by late December.

I'm pretty sure the stress fracture was the initial injury which sidelined Seth 2 months ago....Seth has practiced this week and according to K his leg is "holding up well" and he is likely going to start the season in the starting lineup....lets just hope he doesn't have any setbacks as K also said Seth makes everyone else better and that "the last two days with Seth we've been really good" especially his ability to open up the floor for Sheed to drive which is likely while the starting lineup Friday will feature a 3 guard look as the starters.

[greybeard]

I'm pretty sure the stress fracture was the initial injury which sidelined Seth 2 months ago....Seth has practiced this week and according to K his leg is "holding up well" and he is likely going to start the season in the starting lineup....lets just hope he doesn't have any setbacks as K also said Seth makes everyone else better and that "the last two days with Seth we've been really good" especially his ability to open up the floor for Sheed to drive which is likely while the starting lineup Friday will feature a 3 guard look as the starters.

So do I, but the echos of Paulus and Zoubek haunt. Two stress fractures and the season has not started. Martial Arts as part of Duke's physical training program is, in my view, worth a serious look.

By the way, didn't Tiger have two stress fractures in his left fibia. I have been developing a theory that has to do with stress fractures and ACL tears. We all have "dominant" legs, legs over which we stand solidly. The pelvis/hip joint ("the pelvis") on that side of the body will move down, putting more pressure into the ground. However, that side of the pelvis cannot move up in response to the force imparted back up from the push into the ground. The reason for this is that the core and other muscles that control the movement of the pelvis on the other side of the body, let's say the right side, are in a habituated state of constriction. The constricted right side of the body, with a pelvis that is free to move upward, permits a free swinging leg that is the one that we take a first step with to begin a move, and the first step before the left hits to produce liftoff on a layup. The pressure imparted up the left leg from such forceful actions gets blocked in the hip, the leg is virtually locked in a vise. If the leg is torqued, as in Tiger's early golf swing, or by a constant use in making moves in soccer and basketball, a hairline crack might begin. Again, just my theory, the hairline crack becomes both palpable (the pain) and discernible (Xray) after the force imparted is on just the right (wrong) vector.

At times like this, I wish I was a computer wonk. I'd love to be able to gather statistics on dominant legs and the incidence of torn ACLs. Stress fractures would come next. I'll have to wait until my next life. My luck, I'll come back a snail (dynamic stability, not an issue).

A martial artist, as I understand it, must become master at fluently and easily reorienting his pelvis and reorganizing the rest of themselves to maintain dynamic stability (cannot be pushed or pulled off balance in any direction and are free to move in any direction without readjustment at any time) during the course of a competition. The victor is the one who is better at doing this, and is a better reader of his opponent's vulnerabilities and taking advantage of such vulnerabilities than his oponent.

Finally, I think that physical training has gotten way out of hand and is causing players to put forces into their bodies that bones and joints are not built to endure. Crazy, isn't it. Somehow we have built a world in which the most gifted athletes among us have to become steroid-like more athletic because the training world demands it of everyone who wants to be a "player." So, in the name of enhancing performance, these training practices serve only to put terrific performers out of commission in crazy high numbers. The really crazy thing is that, unlike steroids, there is not a thing that anyone can do about this. Dizzying.

[Bob Green]

Finally, I think that physical training has gotten way out of hand and is causing players to put forces into their bodies that bones and joints are not built to endure. Crazy, isn't it. Somehow we have built a world in which the most gifted athletes among us have to become steroid-like more athletic because the training world demands it of everyone who wants to be a "player." So, in the name of enhancing performance, these training practices serve only to put terrific performers out of commission in crazy high numbers. The really crazy thing is that, unlike steroids, there is not a thing that anyone can do about this. Dizzying.

Basically, I agree with your final paragraph quoted above except for the bolded words. Do players need to be bigger and stronger because the game is much more physical than in the past? When I was a boy, basketball was played by tall skinny guys. Or, at a minimum, the common perception was basketball players were tall and skinny. Perhaps some rules need to be modified or simply better enforced.

[Jderf]

The really crazy thing is that, unlike steroids, there is not a thing that anyone can do about this. Dizzying.

Well, I suppose they could always, you know, do steroids. :rolleyes:

[greybeard]

If everyone is getting to be stronger, faster, more explosive, etc., the tall skinny guy must also, in proportion to where he begins and is his natural build. If you don't play the trainer game, you will not be able to compete. In fact, if you don't work with a trainer, and I do mean work, throughout the off season and in more moderate terms during, my guess is you don't play, or perhaps even stay on the team very long. Just the way it goes.

Do I think that the old way is superior, a reasonable amount of getting in shape and getting stronger training, sure. I do not see how you can regulate the uber traini9ng out of the game. Steroids. If they would help prevent these stress injuries and others, by all means, as long as they are administered legally by very well qualified medical professionals. Ain'tgping to happen. Dizzying.

[Jderf]

If everyone is getting to be stronger, faster, more explosive, etc., the tall skinny guy must also, in proportion to where he begins and is his natural build. If you don't play the trainer game, you will not be able to compete. In fact, if you don't work with a trainer, and I do mean work, throughout the off season and in more moderate terms during, my guess is you don't play, or perhaps even stay on the team very long. Just the way it goes.

Do I think that the old way is superior, a reasonable amount of getting in shape and getting stronger training, sure. I do not see how you can regulate the uber traini9ng out of the game. Steroids. If they would help prevent these stress injuries and others, by all means, as long as they are administered legally by very well qualified medical professionals. Ain'tgping to happen. Dizzying.

Yeah, modern physical training has reached some pretty absurd levels. If you want to be able to sprint up and down the court for 35 minutes a game like, say, Nolan Smith, you have to push your training regimen to the extreme; and if you're not born with steel tendons/joints/muscles, eventually something is going to give out.

Still, there's no going back now. And jokes aside, safe steroids are just not a realistic option -- even if they existed -- given the current laws and cultural climate. But I'm not even sure it is necessarily a problem that needs to be fixed in the first place. Yes, the training wall creates a barrier to people whose knees simply cannot take it, but it has also propelled the people who can withstand it to some unprecedented levels of athletic achievement. For example, I had a discussion with a friend the other day about whether or not LeBron James might be the most athletic human being to ever exist, in terms of having the greatest balance ever of size, speed, strength, agility, and coordination. Whether or not you agree, the fact that such a discussion can even occur is absolutely crazy.

[roywhite]

Yeah, modern physical training has reached some pretty absurd levels. If you want to be able to sprint up and down the court for 35 minutes a game like, say, Nolan Smith, you have to push your training regimen to the extreme; and if you're not born with steel tendons/joints/muscles, eventually something is going to give out.

Still, there's no going back now. And jokes aside, safe steroids are just not a realistic option -- even if they existed -- given the current laws and cultural climate. But I'm not even sure it is necessarily a problem that needs to be fixed in the first place. Yes, the training wall creates a barrier to people whose knees simply cannot take it, but it has also propelled the people who can withstand it to some unprecedented levels of athletic achievement. For example, I had a discussion with a friend the other day about whether or not LeBron James might be the most athletic human being to ever exist, in terms of having the greatest balance ever of size, speed, strength, agility, and coordination. Whether or not you agree, the fact that such a discussion can even occur is absolutely crazy.

Yeah, agree about the changes and no turning back. Always strikes me when I see videos of the great Duke team of 1991 and 1992 --- thinner and less developed muscularly than current players. Only 20 years ago.

Some tangential issues also arise about equipment:
Can football helmets be engineered to reduce risk of concussions for players who are bigger, stronger, faster?
Are basketball shoes doing the best job possible to reduce strain and injuries? (this is close to home when you look at the proliferation of foot, ankle injuries in our program).

[greybeard]

Of course steroids are an option. If history proves anything, of course they are. To think that they and other performance/recovery drugs that are illegal are not being used, even before prime time athletes reach the age of say 16, is, I should think, fantasy. I agree that we will not see them "legalized" anytime soon. I also imagine that new enhancers not covered by current prohibitions, or not detectable with current science, are continually in the pipeline. The use of such drugs goes go hand and foot with the ultra training regimins that participation in high-end sport demands. I should think they will not go away anytime soon.

Wilt is the list, by the way, not LeBron.

[Dukeface88]

Considering steroids weaken joints, using them to prevent injuries seems rather counterproductive.

[NM Duke Fan]

I am 54, have played a ton of pick up basketball on rough courts, and go on extensive cross-country expeditions regularly. I have yet to even sprain an ankle after all these decades. One important part of my professional training is as a practitioner of Chinese Herbology. Many Americans are relatively ignorant of the accumulated wisdom of various Master herbologists, who built upon successive generations of very careful observations, extensive note taking, and a highly systematic system of synthetic inductive logic. In addition, I also have studied qigong and a few martial arts, which have their own insights on tendons and ligaments. The bottom line in working with athletes over the years is that I have been able to heal up even torn tendons and ligaments in half the time that sports medicine was expecting. There are a few key herbs that have a powerful, time-tested healing impact on tendons, ligaments, and even broken bones. Many high-level martial artists are quite aware of the power of this ancient knowledge, for they have repeatedly been able to get back into their sparring much quicker. And by the way, a shortage of manganese in the body also predisposes one to more easily injuring tendons and ligaments. Omega 3 fatty acids are also important for avoiding tendonitis.

[Sandman]

I have yet to hear a definitive diagnosis of Seth's injury - perhaps a stress fracture, or maybe shin splints, or ???????? You can tell during games that his injury affects his movement. There have been statements that some days he may play; other days he may not.

Apparently, there is a lot of pain/discomfort involved. I really admire Seth's heart and courage in going out game after game and performing at such a high level. It's amazing how he can perform at the level he is, knowing the painful consequences.

Does anyone know exactly what the issue is? Will it improve, or stay the same, or get worse over the course of the season?

If it's shin splints, I really feel for him. I suffered from those during Army boot camp. Every day was sheer agony! If it wasn't for the warm, caring support from those wonderful DIs:mad:, I could not have gotten through it.:) I can't imagine voluntarily enduring that level of pain as Seth is doing. He is one tough kid!!!!!

[roywhite]

I am 54, have played a ton of pick up basketball on rough courts, and go on extensive cross-country expeditions regularly. I have yet to even sprain an ankle after all these decades. One important part of my professional training is as a practitioner of Chinese Herbology. Many Americans are relatively ignorant of the accumulated wisdom of various Master herbologists, who built upon successive generations of very careful observations, extensive note taking, and a highly systematic system of synthetic inductive logic. In addition, I also have studied qigong and a few martial arts, which have their own insights on tendons and ligaments. The bottom line in working with athletes over the years is that I have been able to heal up even torn tendons and ligaments in half the time that sports medicine was expecting. There are a few key herbs that have a powerful, time-tested healing impact on tendons, ligaments, and even broken bones. Many high-level martial artists are quite aware of the power of this ancient knowledge, for they have repeatedly been able to get back into their sparring much quicker. And by the way, a shortage of manganese in the body also predisposes one to more easily injuring tendons and ligaments. Omega 3 fatty acids are also important for avoiding tendonitis.

Interesting comments. The manganese reference reminded me of Bill Walton's persistent problems. Here's a link talking about trace elements and his case

Injury problems (http://www.fortmyersbeachtalk.com/page/content.detail/id/500825.html?nav=5048)


A macrobiotic diet is a very restrictive diet, limiting many foods and causing vitamin and mineral deficiencies. A blood test revealed that Walton had a copper level that was approximately 50 percent below normal and a zinc level less than one-third of normal. Most surprising of all, he had no detectable manganese in his blood at all.

[oldnavy]

Interesting comments. The manganese reference reminded me of Bill Walton's persistent problems. Here's a link talking about trace elements and his case

Injury problems (http://www.fortmyersbeachtalk.com/page/content.detail/id/500825.html?nav=5048)

However, I have heard that his THC levels were always above the norm....

[Lunchab1es]

However, I have heard that his THC levels were always above the norm....

And yet his midichlorians are off the charts...

[Indoor66]

And yet his midichlorians are off the charts...

When the solids are bird seed and brown rice, it is a tough road.... :cool: