Regarding Crystal Mangum update

[killerleft]

I was unable to link the N&O story because of internet filters at work, so I looked at the Durham Herald-Sun story instead.

That story reports that an Asst. D.A. said that no deal has been offered to Mangum to reduce her possible sentence to time served, nor was any other deal available to her. Mangum DID indicate that she'd been offered a deal, however. Mangum apparently made up a "second autopsy" having occurred, also. A doctor hired by the defense did review the autopsy. Unless that review is released, who would want to accept her word on anything at all that couldn't be otherwise verified?

http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/20526235/article-Mangum-to-represent-herself-in-murder-case?instance=search_results

[OldPhiKap]

who would want to accept her word on anything at all that couldn't be otherwise verified?



Not even then.

[Turtleboy]

Mangum, 34, claims that Daye was recovering from the stab wound but became sick during withdrawal from an alcohol addiction and choked on his own vomit. She claims someone at the hospital incorrectly inserted a breathing tube into his stomach instead of his lungs, causing him to go into a coma from lack of oxygen.

At least he wasn't floating in mid-air when the nurse confused his stomach with his lungs.


And yes, DBR seems to have read the N+O article a bit casually. If the only one claiming a plea agreement is Crystal Mangum, while the one disputing it is the ADA, I see no reason whatsoever to go with her version.

[MCFinARL]

Interestingly, the News-Observer report (with some fairly tortured sentence structure) seems to say that Mangum told the court her own attorney offered her the plea deal--which would suggest that maybe he offered to seek such a plea deal but never did--the Herald Sun article suggests Mangum says she hadn't decided whether to pursue that route. But it's kind of a muddle. Both articles make clear there was no second autopsy but rather a second review of the original autopsy report.

[Turtleboy]

Interestingly, the News-Observer report (with some fairly tortured sentence structure) seems to say that Mangum told the court her own attorney offered her the plea deal--which would suggest that maybe he offered to seek such a plea deal but never did--the Herald Sun article suggests Mangum says she hadn't decided whether to pursue that route. But it's kind of a muddle. Both articles make clear there was no second autopsy but rather a second review of the original autopsy report.I suppose he may have suggested one to her. But he clearly did not work one out, as DBR states. Unless the ADA is lying.

If the attorney offered her a deal that was not on the table he is all kinds of stupid.

[OldPhiKap]

I suppose he may have suggested one to her. But he clearly did not work one out, as DBR states. Unless the ADA is lying.

If the attorney offered her a deal that was not on the table he is all kinds of stupid.

No reason for the ADA to lie.

Her attorney may have said something to the effect of "If I can get you X, will you take it?" to try to negotiate X. So that may be where the confusion is. Or, it could be that she is just a pathetic, lying snake-in-the-head-crazy malfeasor.

50-50.

[Jim3k]

No reason for the ADA to lie.

Her attorney may have said something to the effect of "If I can get you X, will you take it?" to try to negotiate X. So that may be where the confusion is. Or, it could be that she is just a pathetic, lying snake-in-the-head-crazy malfeasor.

50-50.

There is no doubt that she is the latter. However, I'd bet on the former, since that is how litigation generally works (as OPK well knows).

[BigWayne]

DBR's posting of this is guilty of taking statements of a legal participant as a fact and reporting it. The most recent case of this happening widely is the Lance Thomas Jewelry story. Virtually every report on that one takes the filing by the jeweler's lawyer and reports it as fact, which may or may not be accurate.

[Black Mambo]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/10019317/duke-lacrosse-accuser-found-guilty-murder

Ummm... words escape me.

You all probably knew about this. I guess I have been living under a different rock (pre-tenured faculty)

Mods, please move or lock if you feel this is off-topic or inappropriate

[Blue in the Face]

Crystal Mangum was found guilty of second degree murder Friday in the death her boyfriend, Reginald Daye. Mangum was sentenced to between 14 years, two months and 18 years in prison. In a quick-moving trial, jurors deliberated over four options: first-degree murder, guilty of second-degree murder, guilty of voluntary manslaughter or not guilty.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/11/22/4488516/crystal-mangum-found-guilty-of.html#.Uo_OtcTrzpw

[Newton_14]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/10019317/duke-lacrosse-accuser-found-guilty-murder

Ummm... words escape me.

You all probably knew about this. I guess I have been living under a different rock (pre-tenured faculty)

Mods, please move or lock if you feel this is off-topic or inappropriate

No issues at all. The story is fair game here since it appeared on the main DBR Home Page. Discussion is fine, as do normal posting rules.


At any rate, she is obviously not a very stable person. The sentencing was 14 to 18 years on the conviction of 2nd Degree murder. How many years she ends up serving is another story altogether I suppose.

[miramar]

Assistant District Attorney Charlene Franks told the jurors during closing arguments that the evidence did not back up Mangum's story.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/10019317/duke-lacrosse-accuser-found-guilty-murder

That's not the first time that's happened, but it's good to see that the DA's office has learned from its mistakes.

[Dukehky]

No issues at all. The story is fair game here since it appeared on the main DBR Home Page. Discussion is fine, as do normal posting rules.


At any rate, she is obviously not a very stable person. The sentencing was 14 to 18 years on the conviction of 2nd Degree murder. How many years she ends up serving is another story altogether I suppose.

You can't get below the minimum sentence. 14 years in the NC-DOC at the very least. She won't get the 14 year minimum based on her criminal record either. I'd be shocked if she doesn't get the max available under the sentencing guidelines because it will be aggravated conviction. (meaning that her record will provide no mitigating or average circumstance).

[Newton_14]

You can't get below the minimum sentence. 14 years in the NC-DOC at the very least. She won't get the 14 year minimum based on her criminal record either. I'd be shocked if she doesn't get the max available under the sentencing guidelines because it will be aggravated conviction. (meaning that her record will provide no mitigating or average circumstance).

Thanks for sharing. I did not realize this. She had another run in with the law before this one where she got into a fight with another boyfriend, put all of his belongings in the bathtub and set them on fire. The house caught on fire of course, and sadly with her kids in the house. No one was hurt but she was arrested for that too, but I don't remember if she served time or not. She told another wild story that night (one of my family members actually questioned her on the scene) but I can't share here. Not PG13 for one thing.

Glad to know she has to serve at least the minimum 14 years.

[BigWayne]

You can't get below the minimum sentence. 14 years in the NC-DOC at the very least. She won't get the 14 year minimum based on her criminal record either. I'd be shocked if she doesn't get the max available under the sentencing guidelines because it will be aggravated conviction. (meaning that her record will provide no mitigating or average circumstance).

According to the N&O: "After Superior Court Judge Paul Ridgeway sentenced Mangum to 14 years and two months to 18 years in prison, deputies immediately led her handcuffed out of the courtroom."

It would be a safe bet that we will hear about her again at some point. I just can't see her staying out of trouble in prison.

[oldnavy]

Was she charged with perjury or anything in the Lacrosse case?

And, second, if nothing else, this case further highlights the need for reforms in how we deal with mental illness in this country.

[TruBlu]

Was she charged with perjury or anything in the Lacrosse case?

And, second, if nothing else, this case further highlights the need for reforms in how we deal with mental illness in this country.

Ummm, I think you may have meant to post the bolded part in the "P. J. Hairston Saga" thread.

[oldnavy]

Ummm, I think you may have meant to post the bolded part in the "P. J. Hairston Saga" thread.

I think that the major difference is one makes very STUPID choices based in part on arrogance and sense of privilege, and the other is completely out of her mind and unable to distinguish reality from pure fantasy.

I get your point however, pretty funny too! ;)

[Reilly]

Was she charged with perjury or anything in the Lacrosse case?....

No. http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/30/559021/duke-lacrosse-accuser-holds-press.html

[DukieInKansas]

I think that the major difference is one makes very STUPID choices based in part on arrogance and sense of privilege, and the other is completely out of her mind and unable to distinguish reality from pure fantasy.

I get your point however, pretty funny too! ;)

I think she has that sense of arrogance and privilege. She has never been punished for any of her bad choices si she never thought she would be.
Yes, there probably is some mental illness involved.

I hope her children are in a stable loving environment. They need good influences to help them make their way through all her baggage.

[moonpie23]

putting aside my anger at her for the LAX fiasco, i'd say it would have been an out and out miracle for this woman to get a fair trial anywhere in the entire state of NC…


i too, feel for her kids….

[Newton_14]

putting aside my anger at her for the LAX fiasco, i'd say it would have been an out and out miracle for this woman to get a fair trial anywhere in the entire state of NC…


i too, feel for her kids….

Maybe, but you don't feel she should be in prison giving all the bad things she has done to people? I mean after all, she did take a life here and the evidence was pretty overwhelming.

[weezie]

i'd say it would have been an out and out miracle for this woman to get a fair trial anywhere in the entire state of NC…


I have a feeling this thread will be locked soon but what makes you think she did not get a fair trial moonie?
I am seriously interested in your opinion and not threatening to start an argument.

[duke96]

putting aside my anger at her for the LAX fiasco, i'd say it would have been an out and out miracle for this woman to get a fair trial anywhere in the entire state of NC…
.

I doubt that. I think we have learned that there are many in the area who are likely to be sympathetically inclined, facts be damned.

[DukieInKansas]

I doubt that. I think we have learned that there are many in the area who are likely to be sympathetically inclined, facts be damned.

And that may be why she got to the point to cause someone's death. She believed her own press - nothing she did was her own fault.

[BD80]

To offer a defense to murder, that she was defending herself or whatever, she had to take the stand. I imagine that opened up her past of lying under oath. No jury is going to believe her.

[oldnavy]

And that may be why she got to the point to cause someone's death. She believed her own press - nothing she did was her own fault.

She either should have been in prison or an insane asylum a long time ago.

A topic for a different board, but why have we made it almost impossible to have mentally ill people committed in this country? Who are we helping with this policy? Certainly not the mentally ill who get no help and are left to fend on their own often homeless and destitute, and certainly not society if the ill patient happens to be violent.

[johnb]

She either should have been in prison or an insane asylum a long time ago.

A topic for a different board, but why have we made it almost impossible to have mentally ill people committed in this country? Who are we helping with this policy? Certainly not the mentally ill who get no help and are left to fend on their own often homeless and destitute, and certainly not society if the ill patient happens to be violent.

The deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill has been going on for decades. There's been a lot written about it, but I'd guess that it's been powered by both sides of the political spectrum, since it combines cost savings (at least by some measures) and enhancement of civil liberties (again, by some measures).

Chronically mentally ill people have lots of excess morbidity and mortality: the average schizophrenic dies, for example, at least 20 years before his non-ill siblings. Homelessness and inadequate health coverage is crippling, common, and a reflection (IMHO) of our failure to live up to our societal ideals.

I don't know how this relates to Mangum, since I haven't read much about her putative diagnoses.

[MCFinARL]

The deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill has been going on for decades. There's been a lot written about it, but I'd guess that it's been powered by both sides of the political spectrum, since it combines cost savings (at least by some measures) and enhancement of civil liberties (again, by some measures).

Chronically mentally ill people have lots of excess morbidity and mortality: the average schizophrenic dies, for example, at least 20 years before his non-ill siblings. Homelessness and inadequate health coverage is crippling, common, and a reflection (IMHO) of our failure to live up to our societal ideals.

I don't know how this relates to Mangum, since I haven't read much about her putative diagnoses.

There was a key turning point in the 1970's. Advocates concerned about the warehousing of mentally ill poor people who were involuntarily committed but received little or no treatment argued that courts should recognize a right to treatment after involuntary commitment. The Supreme Court did not recognize this right but instead declared that mentally ill people could not be held against their will indefinitely if they did not pose an immediate threat to themselves or others. I may be getting the details of this wrong, but that is the gist of it.

[nyesq83]

is where this manipulating career criminal is going. She is a constant fabricator. If you have a chance, watch her testimony and the cross-examination.

The judge did a great job of running a no-nonsense trial, wherein the Crystal Cult could not try to influence the jury or the judge.

Crystal made up stories on the stand and she was her own worst enemy.

In her last trial, the idiot judge had the nerve to declare that she was "a good mother." No further comment.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

How and where can we watch the testimony and cross?
Love, Ima

[nyesq83]

How and where can we watch the testimony and cross?
Love, Ima

It used to be on WRAL.com. Might not be available any more, don't know if it on Youtube sorry.

[nyesq83]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZtFqqJRDeI is a partial of the cross exam.

here is her testimony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3nuzZR6tUw

[nyesq83]

Pretty good cross exam, making the mundane critical by having Crystal lie about minor facts to show she lies about everything.