FB: (4) Florida State 49, (10) Clemson 37

[Olympic Fan]

This is undoubtedly a big game -- No. 10 Clemson at No. 4 Florida State. ESPN's GameDay is going to be on hand. It's a nationally televised Saturday night game and it's being touted as the biggest ACC game in years. It might be that, but when commentators call it an important game for the conference, I disagree.

Let me explain. I agree that the winner will remain a viable natuional championship contender, while the loser can forget those dreams (a one-loss SEC team can qualify for the title, but a one-loss ACC team won't). The outcome is important in that sense.

But one ACC team or the other is going to wn ... as far as the ACC is concerned, it doesn't matter which one. The winner will become a national title contender and that's something the ACC needs desperately. It's not like FSU is playing Alabama or Clemson is playing LSU, where the outcome is vital to the conference.

What IS important for the ACC is that the winner of Saturday night's game win out. Based on past history, the winner will emerge from this game, be touted as a contender ... then promptly lose to another ACC school. The ACC's reputation has been burned in recent years because of the league's balance. The ACC has turned out more pro draft picks than anybody other than the SEC (and it's even close to that conference). It's non-conference record against other BCS leagues is middle of the pack, not at the bottom. It's bowl teams have struggled for the last 2-3 years, but in the first 7-8 years of the century, the ACC had the best bowl winning percentage of any conference.

But the PERCEPTION that the ACC the second-weakest of the BCS conferences (ahead of only the Big East) is shaped by the hard fact that no ACC team has made a deep national title run since FSU lost the BCS title game in 2001 (actually at the end of the 2000 season). The Pac 10, Big 10 and Big 12 haven't been any better than the ACC. They've just turned out an occassional Oregon or Southern Cal,Ohio State, Texas or Oklahoma.

The ACC's self-mutilation happened to Clemson a year ago, when the Tigers won back-to-back showdowns with FSU and Virginia Tech and climbed in the polls. The Tigers climbed to No. 6 in the nation after trashing UNC on Oct. 22 ... then promptly went to Atlanta and were beaten 31-17 by unranked Georgia Tech. Actually, the Jackets had opened 6-0 and were ranked No. 12 in the nation before they went to Virginia and lost to the Cavs. A loss at Miami the next week dropped them out of the polls before the Clemson game.

So, I'll enjoy Saturday night's game (at least what little bit of it I get to see after the Duke game at 6 p.m.), but I whichever team wins, it won't change my perception of the ACC or its chances of putting a team in the title game.

If FSU wins, I'll hold my breath when they go to Virginia Tech on Nov. 8 for a Thursday night game -- is that a trap or what? Clemson might actually have an easier path. They get Virginia Tech in Death Valley. Neither plays dangerous Georgia Tech. Clemson's only remaining ACC road games are to Wake, Duke and BC. If they beat the 'Noles, I could see them finishing the season against South Carolina in Death Valley on Nov. 24.

Now, THAT one would be big for the ACC!

[moonpie23]

i don't really care who loses as long as it's clemmzen

[Bob Green]

Based on past history, the winner will emerge from this game, be touted as a contender ... then promptly lose to another ACC school.

If your scenario plays out, we can all hope the national title contender decides to lay the egg against Duke. Clemson winning Saturday night and then losing in Wallace Wade Stadium on November 3rd is an outcome which wouldn't upset me. Duke previously defeated Clemson in Wallace Wade when the Tigers were a highly ranked team (1989).

[Acymetric]

I suppose its semantics, but I would say it is very important to the conference because it provides a type of exposure I'm not sure we've had in a long time. When was the last time two teams in the ACC were seen to have a real shot at contending for a title played each other? If both teams put on a strong showing and play good football it could do a world of good for our conference.

[Olympic Fan]

If your scenario plays out, we can all hope the national title contender decides to lay the egg against Duke. Clemson winning Saturday night and then losing in Wallace Wade Stadium on November 3rd is an outcome which wouldn't upset me. Duke previously defeated Clemson in Wallace Wade when the Tigers were a highly ranked team (1989).

Well, Clemson was ranked No. 7 when Duke rallied to beat them in 1989 (if you haven't seen Randy Cuthbert gt in the end zone in that game, you need to find a clip). That's the last time Duke ha beaten a Top 10 team. Fiv years later, Duke beat No. 13 Virginia in Wade -- that's the last time Duke has beaten a ranked team.

Duke last beat Clemson in 2004, when on the final play of the game, Matt Brooks (whose father funded Duke's new visiting dress room) kicked a 53-yard field goal for a 16-13 win.

[Dukehky]

Go Noles.

that is all

[TruBlu]

Well, Clemson was ranked No. 7 when Duke rallied to beat them in 1989 (if you haven't seen Randy Cuthbert gt in the end zone in that game, you need to find a clip). That's the last time Duke ha beaten a Top 10 team. Fiv years later, Duke beat No. 13 Virginia in Wade -- that's the last time Duke has beaten a ranked team.

That remains one of my all time favorite Duke football plays. If anyone can provide a link, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Reilly]

... a one-loss SEC team can qualify for the title, but a one-loss ACC team won't ...

On his radio show yesterday, Colin Cowherd was saying there's no way a 1-loss Alabama team would make the title game this year, given their weak schedule (not playing some of the top SEC teams).

[A-Tex Devil]

I agree with OP. Someone has to lose this game. It's more important for the winner to win out. The ACC has not been that weak of a conference the last decade, they just haven't had a dominate team. They also seem to have weeks like they did last weekend where the middling teams all lose non-cons at the same time.

Folks talk about the ACC being too weak to be able to place its champ in the BCS title game. Frankly, we don't know the answer to that one yet, because it hasn't happened since FSU played in back to back BCS championship games a dozen years ago.

One might argue that it's important for this game to be close and for both teams to win out for the public perception of the ACC to improve. Eh.... I buy that a little. But if an ACC team takes care of business, finally, and goes undefeated, dollars to donuts they are in the MNC game. Nothing else really matters.

[elvis14]

I went to grad school at Clemson so naturally I hope the Tigers win this game, moonpie23 learns to spell and announcers outside of SC learn to pronounce Clemson without moonpie's "z" :p. I do agree that it's an important game for the conference. In talking with a few Clemson fans this week the consensus seems to be: 1) FSU is probably a better team because of defense 2) We still hope to win 3) Because of #1 it's probably better for the ACC if FSU wins since they are more likely to win out. 4) If we don't win, we hope we don't get blown out.

Clemson plays at Duke this year. After years of being a Duke basketball fan and many years of reading DBR, I have started to root for Duke football as well. I'll be a little conflicted about that game. I might try to go but have no idea what color I'll wear (I own a lot more blue than orange).

[Newton_14]

I suppose its semantics, but I would say it is very important to the conference because it provides a type of exposure I'm not sure we've had in a long time. When was the last time two teams in the ACC were seen to have a real shot at contending for a title played each other? If both teams put on a strong showing and play good football it could do a world of good for our conference.

Not only that, but it would be ideal for this to be a great game decided by a FG, and then have both teams win out from there. The ACC could use that shot in the arm.

[msdukie]

Shouldn't Big XII football be in the off-topic boards?

[Dukehky]

So, this game is awesome so far. ACC not looking too awful with these two teams out there.

[blazindw]

Clemson plays at Duke this year. After years of being a Duke basketball fan and many years of reading DBR, I have started to root for Duke football as well. I'll be a little conflicted about that game. I might try to go but have no idea what color I'll wear (I own a lot more blue than orange).

Did you go to undergrad at Duke? If so, I would say you support your undergrad team above all else. When Miami plays Duke, there's never a conflict...I'm always in Duke Blue. :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

So, this game is awesome so far. ACC not looking too awful with these two teams out there.

I really hope FSU makes it to a bowl game this year. Will provide instant credibility to ACC football. And with ND playing us 5 times a year, that provides even more credibility. I'm not saying we'll be the next SEC, but I hope to get a lot more coverage than what the media provides us for the past 5 years.

[Bluedog]

I really hope FSU makes it to a bowl game this year. Will provide instant credibility to ACC football.

I sure hope they do too! If not, that would be an unmitigated disaster for the ACC. ;)

(I'm just joking around incidentally as the "winky" face should indicate. I realize you likely meant the national championship game.)

[elvis14]

Did you go to undergrad at Duke? If so, I would say you support your undergrad team above all else. When Miami plays Duke, there's never a conflict...I'm always in Duke Blue. :)

I didn't go to Duke :-( I went to undergrad at Lander in Greenwood, SC. Lander is too small to have a football team. Plus, I'm a Navy brat so I moved around a good bit when I was young and nobody in my blue collar family cares anything about college sports (so my blood does not runneth orange or any other color since I was young). Been here in RTP for 21 years now. Actually starting following Duke basketball when I was at Clemson (89-91, we weren't bad back then).

As for the Clemson-FSU game, both teams looked pretty good at times but FSU was just better in the second half. Wow did they make plays.

On another note, I watched Wake Forest play Army Saturday afternoon. Every time I watch one of our military service schools I'm so impressed by the behavior of these young men. They make plays hand the ball to the ref and get ready for the next play. They don't act like they won the SuperBowl after routine plays or taunt or talk much trash. Seeing FSU play after Army was an eye opener. Impressed with FSU's play, embarrassed for their behavior.

[roywhite]

FSU looks legit to me. Watched most of the game Saturday evening.

Compared to their glory days of consecutive national top 5 finishes, this defense doesn't seem quite as good (though Clemson certainly has some serious weapons), but the offense may be better than some very good previous Seminole teams. Good QB, excellent set of receivers and running backs, and good O-line play.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them play for the national championship.

[CDu]

FSU looks legit to me. Watched most of the game Saturday evening.

Compared to their glory days of consecutive national top 5 finishes, this defense doesn't seem quite as good (though Clemson certainly has some serious weapons), but the offense may be better than some very good previous Seminole teams. Good QB, excellent set of receivers and running backs, and good O-line play.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them play for the national championship.

The 'Noles are probably going to need some help if they are to play for the national championship. Alabama, Oregon, and LSU are still in front of them. Obviously, one of Alabama and LSU will lose for sure, but the other will likely remain unbeaten (I'm guessing Alabama). That leaves Oregon, who just destroyed Arizona. They have two tough games left (@USC and Stanford). If they lose one, FSU is in prime position. But it's very possible that an unbeaten FSU team could be sitting on the outside looking in.

[A-Tex Devil]

The 'Noles are probably going to need some help if they are to play for the national championship. Alabama, Oregon, and LSU are still in front of them. Obviously, one of Alabama and LSU will lose for sure, but the other will likely remain unbeaten (I'm guessing Alabama). That leaves Oregon, who just destroyed Arizona. They have two tough games left (@USC and Stanford). If they lose one, FSU is in prime position. But it's very possible that an unbeaten FSU team could be sitting on the outside looking in.

It's going to be interesting. If the 'Noles go undefeated and beat a top 15 Florida team and win the ACC championship to close out the season, I can't imagine them not making the title game -- if they don't make it, they are losing out to Oregon vs. Undefeated SEC Champ imo. There are lots of undefeated teams right now, but I could see it ending up as FSU/Oregon at the end of the year pretty easily.

- I am going to go out on a limb and assume Stanford and ND are going to drop one along the way.

- I will be shocked if any Big 12 team goes undefeated (there are 7 undefeated teams right now -- with both OK schools joining KU as having a loss). I could see every team having at least 2 conference losses when it all shakes out. Very ACC-esque.

- Don't count out the SEC teams cannibalizing each other either. LSU gets Bama in Death Valley. The SEC East is stronger than it has been if Florida is for real as well.

I will go out on a fairly sturdy limb and say that any undefeated BCS conference team would be ahead of a 1 loss SEC team. Other than 2007 when a 2 loss LSU team (and several other 2 loss teams) were uncontroversially ranked a head of a 1 loss KU team in the final BCS standings, I don't believe the BCSCG has had a real controversy where a BCS team was jumped by another BCS team that had more losses. The primacy of the undefeated season should still win out if the 'Noles can take it that far.