Jim Calhoun retires from Connecticut

[mr shadow 008]

I'm sorry if there is already a thread about this but i did not see one. According to sportscenter Calhoun is going to retire on Thursday with a press conference scheduled for 2 P.M. will post a link as soon as one becomes available.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/12/report-jim-calhoun-to-retire/

[DaveR]

Thanks for all of the great memories Jim!

[Steven43]

Can't say I'm sorry to see him go. I think he was a very good coach as far as getting his team ready to win a big game, but I don't think he has great integrity or character. The college game is better off without him.

[Greg_Newton]

Welcome To Retirement, Jim Calhoun!

Can't say I'll miss him very much.

[cspan37421]

He built UConn out of nothing, and he was easily one of the best coaches of his era. We may tend to forget that because of his brusque demeanor, our battles with UConn (esp. one or two that sure seemed like was 5 on 8), a scandal or two involving weak sanctions for a player involved in a laptop theft ring, I think something about money, surgery, and an ex-team manager or agent, and poor academic progress. But lately, that last one especially seems quaint. At least UConn didn't lie about their academic progress - at least, not enough to avoid a bad APR and postseason bans.

I did not like the man - I took great pleasure in watching Tennessee beat them last year from the upper level - but I respect his accomplishments. He could flat-out coach.

[flyingdutchdevil]

One can easily argue that Calhoun was the best in-game coach out there. But as a leader, a person, and a representative of a school, not so much.

I feel myself opening up to UConn more now.

[Indoor66]

He had is issues but he was undoubtedly a great basketball coach. I'm sorry to see him leave but am glad he is gone.

[FerryFor50]

Good riddance. :)

[JasonEvans]

To some extent, he was the Jerry Tarkanian of the past decade or so. A guy who coached well and got his teams to win at an impressive clip, but who did so with extremely questionable ethics and, at times, seemed to openly thumb his nose at the NCAA and the rules.

--Jason "perhaps Calipari is the modern Tark... perhaps the comparison doesn't work... regardless, I certainly will not miss Calhoun's ethics (or lack thereof)" Evans

[juise]

Thanks for all of the great memories Jim!

(The opposite of) This.

[Dukehky]

He and his striped friends stole two ships from us. I maintain that the '99 team was the best Duke ever had, and will never get over the awfulness of that game.

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh see ya!


Yeah, I'm bitter.

[devildeac]

He and his striped friends stole two ships from us. I maintain that the '99 team was the best Duke ever had, and will never get over the awfulness of that game.

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh see ya!


Yeah, I'm bitter.

That's not the only thing uCon stole...

[greybeard]

The guy survived two cancers. The second, in his neck, involved removing handfuls of lympth nodes. This news, to me, portends misfortune.

[UrinalCake]

He built UConn out of nothing, and he was easily one of the best coaches of his era. We may tend to forget that because of his brusque demeanor, our battles with UConn (esp. one or two that sure seemed like was 5 on 8), a scandal or two involving weak sanctions for a player involved in a laptop theft ring, I think something about money, surgery, and an ex-team manager or agent, and poor academic progress. But lately, that last one especially seems quaint. At least UConn didn't lie about their academic progress - at least, not enough to avoid a bad APR and postseason bans.

Don't forget El-Amin's drug bust (after which he proclaimed himself a "role model"), Kemba Walker claiming he had never read a book (and he was one of their best players academically), and numerous recruiting violations. There were a lot of reasons to not like his program.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The guy was incredibly slimy and always managed to stay one step ahead of the law. However, he took a school in the middle of nowhere that was a consistent doormat in the Big East and built them into a national power. He was also a great in-game coach - others might argue otherwise, but he outcoached Coach K at least once (1999) and I believe other times as well that I don't recall.

[OldPhiKap]

Jim Calhoun's departure is a big blow to what is left of the Big East. It is going to be difficult to replicate his success up in Storrs I think.

The guy knew how to draw up a game plan and get his kids to execute it.

As far as all of the collateral issues surrounding JC and UConn -- I kind of look at him like I did Jim Valvano and State. Calhoun gave the university what it wanted, and the university was willing to pay the price of the fallout that accompanies it. That is much on UConn as it is Calhoun. (Not saying it's right and I am glad Duke does not subscribe to that philosophy -- but there is a difference in Connecticut between UConn and Yale).

[BD80]

... I certainly will not miss Calhoun's ethics ...

Why should you? He never did!

Consistent with his nature, he times his departure right before the season starts - so the AD has no choice but to go with Calhoun's chosen successor who is an assistant on staff.

[cspan37421]

Don't forget El-Amin's drug bust (after which he proclaimed himself a "role model")

Oh, I didn't - it's just that, suffice it to say, fanbases who live in glass houses ....

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Why should you? He never did!

Consistent with his nature, he times his departure right before the season starts - so the AD has no choice but to go with Calhoun's chosen successor who is an assistant on staff.

Dean did the same thing for Guthridge - I'm not going to fault him for this, particularly given his health issues.

[Billy Dat]

He built UConn out of nothing, and he was easily one of the best coaches of his era. We may tend to forget that because of his brusque demeanor, our battles with UConn (esp. one or two that sure seemed like was 5 on 8), a scandal or two involving weak sanctions for a player involved in a laptop theft ring, I think something about money, surgery, and an ex-team manager or agent, and poor academic progress. But lately, that last one especially seems quaint. At least UConn didn't lie about their academic progress - at least, not enough to avoid a bad APR and postseason bans.

I did not like the man - I took great pleasure in watching Tennessee beat them last year from the upper level - but I respect his accomplishments. He could flat-out coach.

Ethics aside, Calhoun is one of the giants of the sport, especially because his team's were able to close the deal 3 out of the 4 times they got to the Final Four. In addition, he was one of K's great rivals, a list that is pretty short. Dean Smith, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo, Gary Williams...who else really belongs on the list aside from Calhoun? 4 match-ups in the NCAA tournament including one title game (ugh!!), one final four game (ugh!), one regional final (special!) and one Sweet 16 Game (Koubek!), a bunch of other intense meetings. Aside from Duke/Carolina and Duke/Maryland games, I think the Duke/Kentucky and Duke/Connecticut tilts always get me the most amped up (Michigan used to be this way, too). Kentucky has had many coaches over that span, UConn always only had Calhoun. In contrast to what another poster said, I think College Hoops losing something whenever one of these giants steps down, and it also reminds me of K's mortality. I would be very surprised if the UConn program doesn't take an enormous step back, perhaps for years.

[sagegrouse]

Why should you? He never did!

Consistent with his nature, he times his departure right before the season starts - so the AD has no choice but to go with Calhoun's chosen successor who is an assistant on staff.


Dean did the same thing for Guthridge - I'm not going to fault him for this, particularly given his health issues.

Smith and John Thompson were wrong to leave their schools with no options but to select long-term assistants. Gut did OK on the court but lousy on recruiting; then his successor was the opposite. Esherick was not the answer at Georgetown. Both acts were very selfish and showed each man's Machiavellian side.

I think the same can be said about Calhoun. I doubt his health is any worse than five months ago. He has given little respect to his two bosses (AD and Prez), and he showed it by giving them only one option in selecting his successor. And he shows his contempt for UConn and its fans. Ollie may be what the doctor ordered, but I doubt it. An orderly transition would give the school time to conduct a nationwide search.

sagegrouse
'Joe B. Hall at Kentucky and Lou Carnesecca at St. John's were two assistants who ascended to the throne and did well. There are not too many other examples....'

[JasonEvans]

Ollie may be what the doctor ordered, but I doubt it. An orderly transition would give the school time to conduct a nationwide search.

I believe Ollie is being given just a 1 year contract. He gets that year to show what he can do and UConn will be conducting a nationwide search in the meantime. If Ollie has the team playing well and seems to be making good in recruiting, I am sure he will be retained with a longer deal. If not, UConn gets plenty of time to look for someone to take the job long-term.

I see nothing wrong with this. Calhoun probably feels that Ollie can get the job done. UConn is giving him a shot at it. I see all this as loyalty to one of their own who has given a lot to the school. If he is successful, it works out perfectly. If not, he cannot say he was not given a chance.

-Jason "Ollie had a long NBA career and has not been an assistant for very long... I wonder how he will do with only 2 years of experience on the bench as an assistant" Evans

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Calhoun's top assistant for the past several years has been George Blaney - I believe Blaney has filled in when Calhoun has missed games. Blaney has significant head coaching experience, including a mediocre stint at Seton Hall after Carlesimo left. However, Blaney is on the north side of 70. So UConn basically had a choice between hiring Blaney, who very clearly would be a place-holder, or giving the younger Ollie a shot, with Blaney at his side (as well as Karl Hobbs, formerly head coach at GW). I think promoting Ollie was the wiser choice. Unfortunately for him, he will be working with a weakened roster, so fans who have grown used to Final Fours and Big East titles might not be happy.

[Saratoga2]

Can't say I'm sorry to see him go. I think he was a very good coach as far as getting his team ready to win a big game, but I don't think he has great integrity or character. The college game is better off without him.

My sentiment exactly. Good technical man but so many integrity issues at UCONN during his tenure.

[JasonEvans]

By the way, as I mentioned, Ollie has only been on the UConn staff for 2 seasons. I wonder how the following folks feel about Ollie being the designated successor:

George Blaney - former long-time coach at Holy Cross and Seton Hall. Has been on the staff at UConn as associate head coach (top assistant) for more than a decade. Blaney plans to stay on as Ollie's associate head coach. In fairness, he is 72 and is certainly not a long-term solution at head coach.

Andre LaFleur - Played and coached overseas for more than a decade. Was at UConn for 9 years. Left in 2011 to be associate head coach at Providence. Consdiered by many to be the recruiting genius behind much of Calhoun's success in recent years.

Other than Blaney, UConn does not have any long-serving assistant coaches because Calhoun had to fire a couple of them when they lied to NCAA investigators as part of one of Calhoun's recruiting scandals. When you throw the folks close to you under the bus, it makes it hard to keep people around for the long-term.

It will take a lot for Ollie to keep UConn as a top-tier program moving forward. The cupboard is not well stocked at the moment. The 2012 recruiting class had only one top 100 player in it and you know 2013 is going to struggle with the could of the NCAA probation as well as the extreme uncertainty in the coaching situation. The 2011 class was strong, but Drummond left after one year and Daniels hasn't been nearly the player they had hoped. Ryan Boatright was good as a freshman and Shabazz Napier is a very solid player, but I doubt they finish higher than the middle of the Big East this season.

-Jason "their goal is the NIT this year" Evans

[Duvall]

-Jason "their goal is the NIT this year" Evans

Can they play in the NIT?

[BD80]

... the middle of the Big East this season. ...

Which is somewhere in notheast Kansas

[CampbellBlueDevil]

The Big East is falling off the basketball map after being touted as the greatest by the media in the past few years.

Bye Calgoon. I hate you for your 75% national championships once making it to the final four.

[-jk]

...
sagegrouse
'Joe B. Hall at Kentucky and Lou Carnesecca at St. John's were two assistants who ascended to the throne and did well. There are not too many other examples....'

I trust you're intentionally ignoring the one down the street.

-jk

[CampbellBlueDevil]

I trust you're intentionally ignoring the one down the street.

-jk

He was successful at Kansas first.

[throatybeard]

Man, I was hoping he would get another seven wins.

[-jk]

He was successful at Kansas first.

Youngsters. Sigh.

-jk

[CampbellBlueDevil]

Youngsters. Sigh.

-jk

Old timers. Sigh.

Your statement came across to me as being in the present tense. But I see now that you are talking about the glorious 60s.

[Turtleboy]

Old timers. Sigh.

Your statement came across to me as being in the present tense. But I see now that you are talking about the glorious 60s.Well, to be fair, the 70s, 80,s and 90s weren't so bad for the old coot either.

[sagegrouse]

I trust you're intentionally ignoring the one down the street.

-jk

He doesn't qualify. The category, name an assistant coach who succeeded at the same school when promoted to succeed a legendary head coach.

Joe B. Hall was the assistant to Rupp.

Carnesecca was the long-time assistant to Lapchick at St. John's.

Jim Boeheim, who walked on to the basketball team as a freshman, has basically never left Syracuse. (Two years in the pro ball minors -- Scranton.) In 1976 he succeeded Roy Danforth, who left for Tulane. Danforth spent eight years with the Orange, going 148-71 and making one Final Four. Not a legend, I would say.

There must be others, but maybe the problem is that there are not that many legends.

sagegrouse

[throatybeard]

Krzyzewksi had a really classy sound-byte on SportsCenter praising Calhoun.

[Duvall]

He doesn't qualify. The category, name an assistant coach who succeeded at the same school when promoted to succeed a legendary head coach.

Joe B. Hall was the assistant to Rupp.

Carnesecca was the long-time assistant to Lapchick at St. John's.

Jim Boeheim, who walked on to the basketball team as a freshman, has basically never left Syracuse. (Two years in the pro ball minors -- Scranton.) In 1976 he succeeded Roy Danforth, who left for Tulane. Danforth spent eight years with the Orange, going 148-71 and making one Final Four. Not a legend, I would say.

There must be others, but maybe the problem is that there are not that many legends.

sagegrouse

I think it's safe to say that any Hall of Fame coach is a legend of some sort.

[JasonEvans]

Krzyzewksi had a really classy sound-byte on SportsCenter praising Calhoun.

They edited it at the right moment. Just after they cut him off, he said, "You'll never catch me, Jimmy-boy! Nyaah nyaah nyaah nyaah!"

-Jason "I may have imagined that part" Evans

[hurleyfor3]

Was this today? I picked a good day to climb a mountain (Pyramid Peak, 14018').

[sagegrouse]

Disastrous, I said, in an earlier post. Maybe so, maybe not. Here are the examples I came up with over the last 60 years:



Coach Legend School
Great
Lou Carnesecca Joe Lapchick St. John's
Dean Smith Frank McGuire UNC
Joe B. Hall Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Good
Dick Harp Phog Allen Kansas
Bill Carmody Pete Carril Princeton
Meh
Press Maravich Everett N. Case State
Mike Davis Bob Knight Indiana
Hank Raymonds Al McGuire Marquette
Joey Meyer Ray Meyer DePaul
Bill Guthridge Dean Smith UNC
Craig Esherick John Thompson Georgetown

Of course, my earlier post left out the best example of an internal promotion succeeding -- El Deano -- and yes, the strutting Frank McGuire was a legend. I mentioned Joe B. Hall (Rupp) and Carnesecca (Lapchick) earlier.

Dick Harp, who succeeded Phog Allen, coached eight years and had Wilt Chamberlain for two of them. Bill carmody, now at Northwestern, did a good job, acending to the Tiger throne after Pete Carril.

Press Maravich, who succeeded the Gray Fox at State, stayed only two years (won one ACC -- grrrr -- in 1965) and left when son Pistol Pete couldn't get into State. They both went to LSU.

Mike Davis did OK but was run out of Bloomington eventually. Similarly for Joey Meyer, who succeeded his Dad -- his last season was 3-23, or something.

Hnak Raymonds followed Al McGuire (who could have followed him?). We have previously mentioned Gut and Esherick.

There are other coaching legends -- like Pete Newell -- but he coached at three different schools, so it wasn't a dynasty anywhere.

sagegrouse

[NSDukeFan]

Disastrous, I said, in an earlier post. Maybe so, maybe not. Here are the examples I came up with over the last 60 years:



Coach Legend School
Great
Lou Carnesecca Joe Lapchick St. John's
Dean Smith Frank McGuire UNC
Joe B. Hall Adolph Rupp Kentucky
Good
Dick Harp Phog Allen Kansas
Bill Carmody Pete Carril Princeton
Meh
Press Maravich Everett N. Case State
Mike Davis Bob Knight Indiana
Hank Raymonds Al McGuire Marquette
Joey Meyer Ray Meyer DePaul
Bill Guthridge Dean Smith UNC
Craig Esherick John Thompson Georgetown

Of course, my earlier post left out the best example of an internal promotion succeeding -- El Deano -- and yes, the strutting Frank McGuire was a legend. I mentioned Joe B. Hall (Rupp) and Carnesecca (Lapchick) earlier.

Dick Harp, who succeeded Phog Allen, coached eight years and had Wilt Chamberlain for two of them. Bill carmody, now at Northwestern, did a good job, acending to the Tiger throne after Pete Carril.

Press Maravich, who succeeded the Gray Fox at State, stayed only two years (won one ACC -- grrrr -- in 1965) and left when son Pistol Pete couldn't get into State. They both went to LSU.

Mike Davis did OK but was run out of Bloomington eventually. Similarly for Joey Meyer, who succeeded his Dad -- his last season was 3-23, or something.

Hnak Raymonds followed Al McGuire (who could have followed him?). We have previously mentioned Gut and Esherick.

There are other coaching legends -- like Pete Newell -- but he coached at three different schools, so it wasn't a dynasty anywhere.

sagegrouse

Thanks for the research and nice post. However, Pete Newell wasn't tall enough to be a coaching legend. Should that be in the vigil vigil thread?

[OldPhiKap]

Thanks for the research and nice post. However, Pete Newell wasn't tall enough to be a coaching legend. Should that be in the vigil vigil thread?

How many cinder blocks tall was he?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I think this thread has already been hijacked off topic enough, but...

I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call Jud Heathcote a coaching legend, but Tom Izzo has also been a fairly successful internal promotion, and you can begin to build a case for Matt Painter, who left Purdue for a while, came back as an associate coach for a year then was promoted to take over for Keady (whose hair might be more legendary than his coaching career)

[sagegrouse]

I think this thread has already been hijacked off topic enough, but...

I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call Jud Heathcote a coaching legend, but Tom Izzo has also been a fairly successful internal promotion, and you can begin to build a case for Matt Painter, who left Purdue for a while, came back as an associate coach for a year then was promoted to take over for Keady (whose hair might be more legendary than his coaching career)

Izzo is clearly an internal promote who did really well and should be noted as such. I made my list by copying the folks living and dead in the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, omitting both Heathcote and Keady. Maybe we should have "Legends and near legends."

Painter is a different case. He came to Purdue as part of a plan to replace Keady after one year. He had never been at Purdue as player or coach.

sagegrouse

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Izzo is clearly an internal promote who did really well and should be noted as such. I made my list by copying the folks living and dead in the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, omitting both Heathcote and Keady. Maybe we should have "Legends and near legends."

Painter is a different case. He came to Purdue as part of a plan to replace Keady after one year. He had never been at Purdue as player or coach.

sagegrouse

Painter played at Purdue. He then coached at a variety of other local schools before coming back to Purdue as an heir apparent for a year. I'm not sure he would have had that opportunity if he wasn't previously part of the Purdue family.

[greybeard]

I think that the comments about Calhoun, Thompson, and Smith are beyond unfair.

Calhoun is a three-time cancer survivor and missed eight games last season while suffering from a painful spinal condition. He returned just four days after having back surgery to coach the Huskies in their regular-season finale and the postseason. Oh, the third of his cancersw, he only had 27 lynph nodes removed from his neck, and that was just a few years ago. Deciding late that he could not go bespeaks that he intended to stay but realistically saw that option as unwise.

Thompson: Esherick was not a bad choice. He had been and remained a great recruiter, and was successor to a guy who was literally larger than life who had made "Georgetown" THE name in Sport. How. By having developed an innovative system that played ten deep and took the game to 90 feet of various defenses played terrifically by basketball savy terrific athletes, almost all of whom would have been bigtime player/scorers in most every other bigtime program. Esherick continued to recruit well considering that the Icon was gone and from all appearances had his teams playing well. That the players might have been lost between the type of energy and grit that the Icon generated and a new order is hardly surprising. If anyone could think of a better coach who would have been available at to coach at a school that did not even have its own arena, that is a small school that was not even a pimple on the basketball scene before Thompson arrived, I'd like to hear of him. Esherick more than deserved a shot. A trained lawyer, Esherick left the profession after having finished serving the only university's program he ever had had a connection with. No one can say that he might not have proven his worth as a head coach had he chosen to stay in the coaching game after Georgetown let him go in favor of the one guy who I believe could have and has brought Georgetown back as a player on the national scene. GT III obviously was not a viable option for several reasons to be the immediate successor to his Dad. In my opinion, he has proven to be a remarkably talented coach, and the best bigman coach in the game, period. Thompson's pass off was classy, sensible, and effective.

The same can be said of Smith's. Smith can hardly be faulted for having given his long time assistant a one-time shot at being at the helm of a team poised to make a championship run. The guy, if memory serves, did pretty well, and then, as expected, stepped down. Roy was the logical successor and must have been offered the job. Doherty did a more than credible job at recruiting, and I do not think that anyone predicted that he would not succeed in coaching them up. He left Roy with alot to work with when Roy decided the time was right. By the way, Smith did not hit the ground running when he took over at UNC, and might not have lasted to prove his worth in the current environment. To this day, K counts himself lucky that he wasn't canned before he did. Wooden kind of left his program in "shambles" by the standards being thrown around here, right? He left his team in the hands a vaunted assistant who, despite expectations, tanked.

How well did NC St do after Sloan and Valvano left. Does anyone recall the names of the successors to Huggins at Cinncy, Louie at St. Johns, Calhoun at Northeastern, the guy who coached Gottlieb at Okla St., Taylor who recruited the great Ohio state team of Lucas and Hondo, the coach at Cinncy who beat that Ohio State team twice in the finals, the guy who succeeded the great Russell teams at Ohio State, the guy who succeeded the Wilt Kansas State team or was it teams. The list, I am sure, goes on and on.

The criticisms leveled against Calhoun, Thompson, and Smith are made of whole cloth and should never have been lodged.

[sagegrouse]

Painter played at Purdue. He then coached at a variety of other local schools before coming back to Purdue as an heir apparent for a year. I'm not sure he would have had that opportunity if he wasn't previously part of the Purdue family.

You are right -- I missed that. But he was not a Purdue assistant elevated to succeed a long-time head coach. He was brought in from a HC position (SIU) to serve as assistant for one year before becoming HC.

sagegrouse

[Billy Dat]

"He's an amazing competitor and clearly one of the best coaches ever. For 40 years as a college head coach, his teams played with his spirit and the results were unmistakable, championship-level performances. He is a true giant in our game and a dear friend. Certainly, he will be missed."

-K on Calhoun

[sagegrouse]

I think that the comments about Calhoun, Thompson, and Smith are beyond unfair.



Wow! I have been "beyond unfair" to Jim Calhoun. That's a high compliment in these parts.

Otherwise, we have a difference of opinion. A long-time, successful head coach who leaves on his own terms has the reponsibility IMHO (silent h) to give his team and school the best chance to succeed. And that move is to give the school the right to pick his successor. Presumably, it would do so while consulting and getting the support of the retiring head coach.

Big Jawn and el Deano had the power, through the awkward timing of their departures, to reward long-time assistants. And they did. I don't think that's right. They should have stuck it out through one more full season (Deano retired in October IIRC and Thompson over the Christmas break), privately notifying the school of their plans. But they didn't. And their schools paid the price.

K would never do such a thing. He is all business and all organization, and sudden retirement is extremely messy for the program. Anyone here disagree?

WRT Calhoun, you may be right, but I am unwilling to ascribe more honorable motives to Jim Calhoun than I ascribe to Smith and Thompson.

sagegrouse

[Billy Dat]

Where do we think Calhoun ranks on the list of all time greatest D1 Men's College Basketball Coaches?

You figure the following guys are ahead of him:
K, Wooden, Deano, Rupp

I think you can debate where he ranks with the following, whether above or below:
Knight, Iba, Allen, Roy

And I think the following are still below him, largely because of Calhoun's 3 titles:
Boeheim, Pitino, Izzo

Thoughts?

[Duvall]

Where do we think Calhoun ranks on the list of all time greatest D1 Men's College Basketball Coaches?

You figure the following guys are ahead of him:
K, Wooden, Deano, Rupp

I think you can debate where he ranks with the following, whether above or below:
Knight, Iba, Allen, Roy

And I think the following are still below him, largely because of Calhoun's 3 titles:
Boeheim, Pitino, Izzo

Thoughts?

Comfortably ahead of Roy and well behind Knight, Allen and Iba. Is that everyone, though?

[hurleyfor3]

I'd put him on Denny Crum's level. Now just figure out where Denny Crum belongs.

[greybeard]

Wow! I have been "beyond unfair" to Jim Calhoun. That's a high compliment in these parts.

Otherwise, we have a difference of opinion. A long-time, successful head coach who leaves on his own terms has the reponsibility IMHO (silent h) to give his team and school the best chance to succeed. And that move is to give the school the right to pick his successor. Presumably, it would do so while consulting and getting the support of the retiring head coach.

Big Jawn and el Deano had the power, through the awkward timing of their departures, to reward long-time assistants. And they did. I don't think that's right. They should have stuck it out through one more full season (Deano retired in October IIRC and Thompson over the Christmas break), privately notifying the school of their plans. But they didn't. And their schools paid the price.

K would never do such a thing. He is all business and all organization, and sudden retirement is extremely messy for the program. Anyone here disagree?

WRT Calhoun, you may be right, but I am unwilling to ascribe more honorable motives to Jim Calhoun than I ascribe to Smith and Thompson.

sagegrouse

I think you have been more fair than most. Calohoun haed to come back after surgery last year. Given that surgury, his substantial, I would presume, risk of buying as portended by his most recent bout with cancer, he manned up and came back last year, and it would seem had to have been doing so this year. If there was a guy more competent to hire a place sitter, or a more suitable one, suggest some.

Dean knew what he was doing and it worked. Thompson also. He is a private man. He owed no one outside his school president an explanation for leaving mid season. If he was not confident that Esherick could and would do the job, Esherick would have left after the season, I am sure with nothing but gratitude to Thompson and Georgetown. You want to second guess Thompson, fine. Georgetown's president kept him to be more than a consultantabout such matters. I think I win this one too.

Smith's handling of his departure to my mind is a no brainer. This assistant knew that team, they knew him, and Dean didn't keep him on as his chief assistant all those years because he was a no brainer. UNC went on to win two national championships with his logical successor when that successor was ready. Doherty was likely a plac saver. If not, he worked pretty darn well with the UNC network in drawing talent.

As often, we agree to disagree.

[OldPhiKap]

I'd put him on Denny Crum's level. Now just figure out where Denny Crum belongs.

Oh man, what a set-up line. Too easy for a Friday. ;>)

[UrinalCake]

[Guthridge] did pretty well, and then, as expected, stepped down. Roy was the logical successor and must have been offered the job.

That's a good point. I think every UNC fan in the world assumed that Roy would accept the job when it was offered to him (the first time). Most non-UNC fans would probably agree. When he said no it was a real shock and left them in a bind.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Seth Davis has an article up indicating that the new AD at UConn did not necessarily want to hire Ollie, but Calhoun did this to force his hand.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/09/13/calhoun-fight-for-his-replacement/index.html

[tommy]

I think that the comments about Calhoun, Thompson, and Smith are beyond unfair.

I see things differently.


Calhoun is a three-time cancer survivor and missed eight games last season while suffering from a painful spinal condition. He returned just four days after having back surgery to coach the Huskies in their regular-season finale and the postseason. Oh, the third of his cancersw, he only had 27 lynph nodes removed from his neck, and that was just a few years ago. Deciding late that he could not go bespeaks that he intended to stay but realistically saw that option as unwise.

From everything I know about him, Calhoun was and is an arrogant bully, and one who demonstrated on numerous occasions that he was woefully lacking in the ethics and integrity departments. Winning baskeball games was all that mattered to him. Players committing crimes? That's OK. Players not getting any kind of real education? That's OK. Anybody in the media question me or my judgment on any issue? Not in my fiefdom you don't.

I don't think his comeback last year was so heroic. UConn was rated a top-3 team pre-season, as their lineup looked to be stocked, including bringing in the best big man in high school basketball, by far (and doing so as a surprise at the last minute) in Andre Drummond. I think Calhoun thought that despite the lousy year they had had, that somehow he could come in, rally the troops, get em in line, and make a run for another championship. All about seeking more glory for himself. That's all.



Thompson: Esherick was not a bad choice. He had been and remained a great recruiter, and was successor to a guy who was literally larger than life who had made "Georgetown" THE name in Sport. How. By having developed an innovative system that played ten deep and took the game to 90 feet of various defenses played terrifically by basketball savy terrific athletes, almost all of whom would have been bigtime player/scorers in most every other bigtime program. Esherick continued to recruit well considering that the Icon was gone and from all appearances had his teams playing well. That the players might have been lost between the type of energy and grit that the Icon generated and a new order is hardly surprising. If anyone could think of a better coach who would have been available at to coach at a school that did not even have its own arena, that is a small school that was not even a pimple on the basketball scene before Thompson arrived, I'd like to hear of him. Esherick more than deserved a shot. A trained lawyer, Esherick left the profession after having finished serving the only university's program he ever had had a connection with. No one can say that he might not have proven his worth as a head coach had he chosen to stay in the coaching game after Georgetown let him go in favor of the one guy who I believe could have and has brought Georgetown back as a player on the national scene. GT III obviously was not a viable option for several reasons to be the immediate successor to his Dad. In my opinion, he has proven to be a remarkably talented coach, and the best bigman coach in the game, period. Thompson's pass off was classy, sensible, and effective.

Whether or not he "deserved" a shot, Esherick's teams did not perform. Here were his records:

1999 (he took over mid-season, to be fair): 15-15, NIT
2000: 19-15, NIT
2001: 25-8, Sweet 16
2002: 19-11; rejected bid to NIT
2003: 19-15, NIT
2004: 13-15, including 4-12 in the conference; no post season

So he took the Hoyas to one NCAA tournament in 6 seasons. The program fared far better both before his tenure and since. He may be a perfectly good guy, and I'm sure he is, but the program clearly faltered under his guidance. Oh, and he only put two players in the NBA - Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje and Mike Sweetney, neither of whom made it. He also did recruit Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert though, but he was fired before they made it to the league.



Wooden kind of left his program in "shambles" by the standards being thrown around here, right? He left his team in the hands a vaunted assistant who, despite expectations, tanked.

Tanked? Gene Bartow's first UCLA team went 28-4, including 13-1 in conference, and made it to the Final Four. His second team went 24-5, including 11-3 in the conference, before losing in the Sweet 16. That's 52-9 over two years. Too much pressure for him, though, so he left, but the Bruins can hardly be said to have "tanked" under his leadership.

[sagegrouse]

Wooden kind of left his program in "shambles" by the standards being thrown around here, right? He left his team in the hands a vaunted assistant who, despite expectations, tanked.




I see things differently.

Tanked? Gene Bartow's first UCLA team went 28-4, including 13-1 in conference, and made it to the Final Four. His second team went 24-5, including 11-3 in the conference, before losing in the Sweet 16. That's 52-9 over two years. Too much pressure for him, though, so he left, but the Bruins can hardly be said to have "tanked" under his leadership.

The UCLA brass did not pick a UCLA assistant; JD Morgan and crowd passed over internal candidates to pick Gene Bartow, who was the successful coach of UAB.

sagegrouse

[Cameron]

Say what you want about the man, and there is plenty to be said that covers the spectrum from positive to the absolute opposite of positive, but Jim Calhoun masterminded one of the great program-building jobs in the history of college athletics by taking a school that was once completely irrelevant and unknown on the national basketball stage and elevating into a program today that is in often considered in the same realm as Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke. As Coach K maintained in a statement earlier this week, Calhoun knew how to flat out win. Period.

Calhoun's legacy, however, at least to avid college hoops fans who followed the course of the Husky coach's career, is undoubtedly marred by a cloud of unethical behavior and deeper suspicions that bring into question what other strings the man may have pulled to fulfill his pursuit of, what at least seemed to be true, winning no matter at what costs.

I am surprised by the sudden nature of the move, in that Calhoun still has three years left on his multi-million dollar contract and my belief that he would continue to coach until either Coach K retired, giving Calhoun a chance to break the all-time wins record, or he was quietly removed from campus by EMT. To borrow a line from Home Alone, keep the change ya filthy animal.

[uh_no]

Say what you want about the man, and there is plenty to be said that covers the spectrum from positive to the absolute opposite of positive, but Jim Calhoun masterminded one of the great program-building jobs in the history of college athletics by taking a school that was once completely irrelevant and unknown on the national basketball stage and elevating into a program today that is in often considered in the same realm as Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke. As Coach K maintained in a statement earlier this week, Calhoun knew how to flat out win. Period.

Calhoun's legacy, however, at least to avid college hoops fans who followed the course of the Husky coach's career, is undoubtedly marred by a cloud of unethical behavior and deeper suspicions that bring into question what other strings the man may have pulled to fulfill his pursuit of, what at least seemed to be true, winning no matter at what costs.

I am surprised by the sudden nature of the move, in that Calhoun still has three years left on his multi-million dollar contract and my belief that he would continue to coach until either Coach K retired, giving Calhoun a chance to break the all-time wins record, or he was quietly removed from campus by EMT. To borrow a line from Home Alone, keep the change ya filthy animal.

As someone who followed the program rather closely, I am hardly suprised by the announcement. He has said for years, at least since 2009, that he would leave after neither a great year, no a terrible one. After the disaster of 2010, followed by the championship in 2011, it seemed that he was bound to go soon. He also indicated that the desire to sit out his suspension last year was one of his motivating factors to come back. That seemed to indicate to ME at least, that he was ready to get out. Despite the first round loss in the tournament, The year was by most, very average, and he had served his suspension, and thus had all the "criteria" he seemed to indicate that he wanted before retirement.


Further, He has been clear that his "retirement" would be more a big deal in name than in actuality of how the team has run. As everyone knows, Ollie has been "prepped" to be the head coach ever since he returned to the team. I would imagine that as calhoun suffered health issues as well as a suspension, that while George Blaney was officially in charge (at 72 years old i think?) Mr. Ollie likely took on a huge role in running the team...though perhaps not in the public eye. Further, Kevin has been taking the lead role in recruiting, in so far as at least one recruit called HIM to recruit instead of coach calhoun (source: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/collegesports/new_uconn_coach_ollie_drawing_raves_Z46JNxQM7VS4kS GsB8BX6K). So as Mr. Ollie has already had huge amounts of responsibility, Calhoun has indicated that he is not stepping away from the program. He has the title of special assistant to the athletic director, and has indicated he will often attend practice and consult with the new head coach. After that assignment, he will be the head coach emeritus, which would indicate he will still be involved in the program. So, in the end, what we see is that he is in fact being true to his word. He's taking a slightly lesser role with the team, and the decision to say Ollie was the head coach was more a formality.

I thought the only thing that might bring him back was a want to hit 900 or 903 wins, which would explain why they fought hard to have the wins while he was suspended be reinstated (as well as the postseason). Without those wins/opportunities for wins, his likelihood of getting the 27/30 (i think those are the numbers) wins are extremely slim. As such, it seemed all the more likely that he would throw in the towel. The injury likely put the final nail in the coffin. I don't think he ever, as you assert, thought he would end up with more wins than K, and I don't think that was ever the goal. He often spoke of legacy, and at 873 wins and being in the top 5 with K, Boeheim, Rupp, knight, and Deano absolutely puts him among the best (let alone 3 titles). As mentioned, I think he wanted to end up over 900, but he realized time wasn't on his side.

I think, more than anything, as a uconn fan, I'm releived. There won't be any more questions about the ethics of the coach and program to answer. There won't be any worry of what injury will beset the coach this year. The team is in what seems to be very capable hands, and Jim can go to one of the other things he does very well, philanthropy and community support. At this point, everybody is doing what they need to be, Jim, Kevin, and the Uconn players. I very much look forward to seeing how the program will work under Ollie, and I wish him the best of luck.

[hurleyfor3]

He often spoke of legacy, and at 873 wins and being in the top 5 with K, Boeheim, Rupp, knight, and Deano absolutely puts him among the best (let alone 3 titles). As mentioned, I think he wanted to end up over 900, but he realized time wasn't on his side.

He was only seven wins from passing Dean (879)? Now I wish he had stayed on one more year.

[throatybeard]

Deano retired in October IIRC

You are correct. To wit, on Throatybeard's twenty-first birthday, 9 October 1997.

Glad I could help out here.

[Cameron]

As someone who followed the program rather closely, I am hardly suprised by the announcement. He has said for years, at least since 2009, that he would leave after neither a great year, no a terrible one. After the disaster of 2010, followed by the championship in 2011, it seemed that he was bound to go soon. He also indicated that the desire to sit out his suspension last year was one of his motivating factors to come back. That seemed to indicate to ME at least, that he was ready to get out. Despite the first round loss in the tournament, The year was by most, very average, and he had served his suspension, and thus had all the "criteria" he seemed to indicate that he wanted before retirement.


Further, He has been clear that his "retirement" would be more a big deal in name than in actuality of how the team has run. As everyone knows, Ollie has been "prepped" to be the head coach ever since he returned to the team. I would imagine that as calhoun suffered health issues as well as a suspension, that while George Blaney was officially in charge (at 72 years old i think?) Mr. Ollie likely took on a huge role in running the team...though perhaps not in the public eye. Further, Kevin has been taking the lead role in recruiting, in so far as at least one recruit called HIM to recruit instead of coach calhoun (source: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/collegesports/new_uconn_coach_ollie_drawing_raves_Z46JNxQM7VS4kS GsB8BX6K). So as Mr. Ollie has already had huge amounts of responsibility, Calhoun has indicated that he is not stepping away from the program. He has the title of special assistant to the athletic director, and has indicated he will often attend practice and consult with the new head coach. After that assignment, he will be the head coach emeritus, which would indicate he will still be involved in the program. So, in the end, what we see is that he is in fact being true to his word. He's taking a slightly lesser role with the team, and the decision to say Ollie was the head coach was more a formality.

I thought the only thing that might bring him back was a want to hit 900 or 903 wins, which would explain why they fought hard to have the wins while he was suspended be reinstated (as well as the postseason). Without those wins/opportunities for wins, his likelihood of getting the 27/30 (i think those are the numbers) wins are extremely slim. As such, it seemed all the more likely that he would throw in the towel. The injury likely put the final nail in the coffin. I don't think he ever, as you assert, thought he would end up with more wins than K, and I don't think that was ever the goal. He often spoke of legacy, and at 873 wins and being in the top 5 with K, Boeheim, Rupp, knight, and Deano absolutely puts him among the best (let alone 3 titles). As mentioned, I think he wanted to end up over 900, but he realized time wasn't on his side.

I think, more than anything, as a uconn fan, I'm releived. There won't be any more questions about the ethics of the coach and program to answer. There won't be any worry of what injury will beset the coach this year. The team is in what seems to be very capable hands, and Jim can go to one of the other things he does very well, philanthropy and community support. At this point, everybody is doing what they need to be, Jim, Kevin, and the Uconn players. I very much look forward to seeing how the program will work under Ollie, and I wish him the best of luck.

As a close follower of the program, your thoughts on this matter are obviously more attuned to the situation than are mine. But despite the persistent health issues, I just always got the impression that Calhoun operated by the same coaching clock as the late Joe Paterno, and that even though he insisted otherwise, Calhoun would have to be carried out of Gampel Pavilion in a body bag. Calhoun evidently just has a Timex.

As you kind of hit on, I did read an article that stated Calhoun had previously said that, when the time finally came, he would leave his post in the 11th hour, just before the start of an upcoming season, in order to ensure that the man he had hand-picked as his successor would be given the keys to the gym. This, of course, is the same reason that Dean Smith retired in October, giving North Carolina no choice but to hire long-time associate head coach Bill Guthridge. That kind of loyalty is admirable.

As for my comments regarding Calhoun coaching until all that was left was a skeleton in order to break Coach K's record, that was just to support my belief that Calhoun put winning before everything else, even dignity. The fact that UConn is barred from playing in March this season speaks for itself. With that said, I do have great respect for the philanthropic work he did off the court.

[Cameron]

He was only seven wins from passing Dean (879)? Now I wish he had stayed on one more year.

Great point. At least Jim Boeheim, who currently sits on win No. 880, already surpassed Dean last season, but it would have even more sweet to watch Dean slip to fourth all-time on the very list of wins that defined his career for so many years. At this point, 879 seems kind of underwhelming. That in itself might be the most impressive feat of K's entire career.

[tommy]

The UCLA brass did not pick a UCLA assistant; JD Morgan and crowd passed over internal candidates to pick Gene Bartow, who was the successful coach of UAB.

sagegrouse

We're off the thread topic here, but while you're right that UCLA did not pick a Wooden assistant to succeed him, Bartow was plucked from Illinois. It was after two years at UCLA that Bartow left to start the athletic program at UAB, where he also coached the basketball team, and had some real success. Upon Bartow's departure, UCLA then went to a former Wooden player and assistant, Gary Cunningham, who also won 50 games (maybe a few more if I'm not mistaken) in his two years at the helm.

[greybeard]

I see things differently.



From everything I know about him, Calhoun was and is an arrogant bully, and one who demonstrated on numerous occasions that he was woefully lacking in the ethics and integrity departments. Winning baskeball games was all that mattered to him. Players committing crimes? That's OK. Players not getting any kind of real education? That's OK. Anybody in the media question me or my judgment on any issue? Not in my fiefdom you don't.

I don't think his comeback last year was so heroic. UConn was rated a top-3 team pre-season, as their lineup looked to be stocked, including bringing in the best big man in high school basketball, by far (and doing so as a surprise at the last minute) in Andre Drummond. I think Calhoun thought that despite the lousy year they had had, that somehow he could come in, rally the troops, get em in line, and make a run for another championship. All about seeking more glory for himself. That's all.

Bully's don't attract the talent he did. Doesn't happen. I haven't heard word one from any of his stars that is negative about the guy. Was he demanding, probably. Did he give his studs free reign, not. He was no Bayheim; guys did there jobs, and only if he needed to let somebody loose like he did the last time UConn won it all did Calhoun not coach em' up. Pretty longshop coming back to make a run for a national championship after how UConn had showed all season, a fact underscored by how "well" they actually did in the post seasonl. Calhoun can make for the same reason that guys, very talented guys came to play for him. He was committed to his players, and to giving them what he could.

What I find so remarkable about your position is its failure to address Calhoun's health issues. Back surgery is a crap shoot that does not make "it all better." Lymph nodes are transmitters to mastization. He had 27 of them removed reasonably recently. When the doctors told him of the cancer they also told him that it was no big thingl=, not to worry about. Then they rocked him with the news that it had reached his lymth nodes. People have a cluster of nodes removed and still figure that they are on the meter. This guy was a three time loser and is a ticking time bomb.

I retired from being an attorney with the Federal Government, a job I never came close to having a passion for, or success in, that Calhoun has had in basketball. When I decided that I had had enough, it still wasn't easy to say goodbye to being a lawyer. I did not leave a job, I left a career, which is what Jim Calhoun was confronting. Given the bar from postseason play and the uality players that he had coming back, are you really trying to make the case that some one other than Calhoun's assistant shouldn't have been chosen? Calhoun did not preempt anyone from making a real coaching decision, he just gave them time. If you're in a card game and the administration is holding the hand that Calhoun should, according to you, have left them at the end of last season, you're really going all in that the administration would not do what Calhoun chose, what he would have told them to do? You're too knowledgible and smart to be arguing for the sake of argument and to put down a dedicated and tremendous coach who plain outcoached K in a championship game when K had the better hand. His guys played not just hard, but very, very intelligently and accomplished things that don't happen without Calhoun at the helm. UConn may have a winner in this feelow Ollie. If not, Calhoun gave UConn's administrators the chance to do what everyone here, or nearly everyone hear, said he should have provided them. How many ways you want it; I've run out of fingers.

Whether or not he "deserved" a shot, Esherick's teams did not perform. Here were his records:

1999 (he took over mid-season, to be fair): 15-15, NIT
2000: 19-15, NIT
2001: 25-8, Sweet 16
2002: 19-11; rejected bid to NIT
2003: 19-15, NIT
2004: 13-15, including 4-12 in the conference; no post season

So he took the Hoyas to one NCAA tournament in 6 seasons. The program fared far better both before his tenure and since. He may be a perfectly good guy, and I'm sure he is, but the program clearly faltered under his guidance. Oh, and he only put two players in the NBA - Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje and Mike Sweetney, neither of whom made it. He also did recruit Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert though, but he was fired before they made it to the league.

First, you didn't watch Georgetown play during that era. They played much, much better than their record showed. They often lost games by muffing plays down the stretch. Whose fault was that, you ask. Who cares. How many guys could have walked in that huddle with what was it 3 plus seconds left to go against Kentucky and said something to the effect, "Were going to win this game. Grant, can you throw a pass to Laetner . . . ." and have that happen. Come on. John Thompson had that ability, he had the ability to bring out te best, the unbriddled best in terms of athleticism, decision making, performance, on both sides of the ball, as well as the surity in each player that, well, who knows what the that was accept the players who experienced it and I doubt that any of them could put words around it. How could players on succeeding teams combining to play GEORGETOWN ball looking for whatever that was and not finding it?

Esherick did quite well and thus cute legerdemain about his recruiting--he didn't get to coach Green and Hibbert, come on. Neither was highly recruited, both turned out to be extraordinary players. Add in Bumptje and Sweetny and that's an awesome array of big men in the wake of the BIG MAN's having left. I do not remember the names of the other guys on Escherick's teams that could really, really play, and don't want to bother to look them up. There were many. Being GEORGETOWN without the Big Man to run the show, to do what Thompson does to make men of boys, disciplined, fearless players out of kids who had some talent, and get them to gel deep into the bench into more than the sum of their parts, well, I'm not mad at Escherick's record.

So, Thompson left his team to a guy who had been his top assistant for who knows how many years, as I witnessed it, those teams were quite good and played like it much more often then their record shows, made it to the sweet sixteen once in five years (same as K did recently, right), and left GT III with two guys who nobody batted an eye at when they came out except Esherick, who seems to have seen it right. I don't remember what other talent Escherick left GT III with, but I am sure it was enough to field a very credible team, at less the nucleous of one.

Finally, how can you argue with Thompson's stewardship of the Georgetown program from his seat on high when it lead to bringing a matured GT III to the Hilltop. The guy kicked the snot of the top ranked Duke team with Reddick and Sheldon, not by slowing it down as everyone predicated, but by playing an up tempo game that featured astonishing half court offense that left Sheldon lost. GT III also made toast of the other vaunted team from Tobacco Road, a team that was as good at the up tempo game as you can get. Well almost. Georgetown was better at it that night.

Maybe Thompson was just lucky that things worked out the way they did. Maybe Thompson could have gotten someone like Dawkins to succeed him at Georgetown, to come to McDonough arena (now that's a misuse of a term if there ever was one) to sell as a recruiting tool, or maybe he could have convinced Izzoy or somebody like him to leave millions behind to folllow in footsteps nobody on the planet could fill. We are talking about John Thompson, here men. K can never be in Sport, not just basketball, but sport, what John Thompson was, and Duke, no matter how many championships and pros it produces, will not be what GEORGETOWN was. NEVER.

Somehow, someway, Thompson got precisely the right person/coach/teacher/leader for a team that included two bigs whom he could help grown to a stature nobody could have predicted, whose teams put on a show bulot around a passing game that at times seemed to be the Meadowlark Lemon Globetrotters toying with an opponent made to look like the Washington Generals (watch the film of Georgetwon v Duke at the Verizon Center to catch an image of it.)

Vision, judgment, discernment, brilliance do not look for quick fixes, they produce longterm and longlasting results. They sometimes even do it with class in a way that creates a seemless web of men whose journeys make a whole. Thompson can live with and be proud of every step of that transition, he probably has feelings that go well beyond that. I know I do.




Tanked? Gene Bartow's first UCLA team went 28-4, including 13-1 in conference, and made it to the Final Four. His second team went 24-5, including 11-3 in the conference, before losing in the Sweet 16. That's 52-9 over two years. Too much pressure for him, though, so he left, but the Bruins can hardly be said to have "tanked" under his leadership. SORRY, MY RESPONSES TO MOST ALL OF tOMMY'S POST ARE IN THE ABOVE TEXT ATTRIBUTED TO HIM. YOU WILL HAVE TO FERRET THOSE REMARKS OUT IF YOU CARE TO READ THEM. mY RESPONSES TO HIS bARTOW STUFF FOLLOWS.

Bartow lasted two years because he had been handed two championship calibur teams and was not up to the task of trying to recruit to compete on a high level. He was handed a team with 8 future pros when he began in the 75-76 season. The team was lead by a trio of top 5 first round picks in the front court, lead by Marcus Johnson. David Greenwood, a 6'9" inch could-do-it-all smooth, strong, athletic, and savy inside player widely regarded as the number 1 recruit in college basketball who went on to play like it, and 6'11" Richard Washington who could shoot mid range and score the ball inside, had been tournament MVP on Wooden's last run. Bartow could go bigger, if needed with either 7'2" Ralph Drollinger and 7' Brett Vrogram, both of whom could play. The team had three guards who played in the pros, one of whom, Andre McCarter had a long pro career, and another, Brad Holland, has had a successful college coaching career after a few years in the pros.

The next year Bartow was handed two more Wooden recruits to join Greenwood, Johnson, Vrogram, Townsend, and Holland. They woulod be KiKi Vandewehge and Keith Wilkes, both multiple-year all pros in the League. Bartowe was not run out of town, but rather got out of the big-time where he did not belong. He left his successor, who had been Wooden's longtime first assistant, with nothing coming in, and that was the beginning of the slide.

Ever see the documentary, Standing in the Shadows of Motown, or the Funk Brothers. The Funk Brothers were THE MOTOWN SOUND. They were a group of about 20 jazz musicians who created the music on the fly behind every Motown star in the '60s. One producer was who had worked with him who had been singing their praises (they played on more top ten hits than Elvis, the Beattles, and the Rolling Stones combined) was asked, "Well, they had some real good young talent out in front of him didn't he?" The producer answered, "Deputy Dog could have been singing them songs and they still would have been hits." Bartow was Deputy Dog.

Which is better, a short immediate dip followed by a resurgence or a short, dropped in your lap wining team followed by a long drought. Bartow left before he had a chance to stand on his own two feet and succeed or fail. His successors did not do too well, to say the least.

[JasonEvans]

SORRY, MY RESPONSES TO MOST ALL OF tOMMY'S POST ARE IN THE ABOVE TEXT ATTRIBUTED TO HIM. YOU WILL HAVE TO FERRET THOSE REMARKS OUT IF YOU CARE TO READ THEM. mY RESPONSES TO HIS bARTOW STUFF FOLLOWS.

Dude, you need to learn how to use the quote function. It really isn't all that hard. But asking us to pick out which of the quoted text is yours and which is his... ain't no way most of us (raises hand) are going to go through that unless you promise that your words contain the hidden key to cold fusion or some mystical formula that accurately predicts K's rotation for next season.

If you can't figure out how to parse a quote by inserting your own brackets, well, just let the system automatically quote the post and then put your comments below. I think we can all look back and see what you are referencing.

-Jason "sheesh... as if reading long posts wasn't taxing enough! Ha!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

As you kind of hit on, I did read an article that stated Calhoun had previously said that, when the time finally came, he would leave his post in the 11th hour, just before the start of an upcoming season, in order to ensure that the man he had hand-picked as his successor would be given the keys to the gym. This, of course, is the same reason that Dean Smith retired in October, giving North Carolina no choice but to hire long-time associate head coach Bill Guthridge. That kind of loyalty is admirable.

I think it depends on whether you think the Coach's first loyalty should be to the program or to his assistant coaches. If the coach should be loyal, first and foremost, to the program/school then retiring at a time that gives the school time to do a proper search is the proper thing to do. There is nothing to say that you cannot strongly recommend your assistant for the job and even push for him to get it, but you are giving the program/school options at that point. Personally, I fail to see the loyalty in putting your school in a tough place.

-Jason

[allenmurray]

unless you promise that your words contain the hidden key to cold fusion

Please Jason, don't tempt him. Now I'm expecting a 10,000 word post on that topic (and how it relates to soccer).

[greybeard]

Dude, you need to learn how to use the quote function. It really isn't all that hard. But asking us to pick out which of the quoted text is yours and which is his... ain't no way most of us (raises hand) are going to go through that unless you promise that your words contain the hidden key to cold fusion or some mystical formula that accurately predicts K's rotation for next season.

If you can't figure out how to parse a quote by inserting your own brackets, well, just let the system automatically quote the post and then put your comments below. I think we can all look back and see what you are referencing.

-Jason "sheesh... as if reading long posts wasn't taxing enough! Ha!" Evans

Don't bother. Grey "I completely agree with you about the long posts" beard

[tommy]

SORRY, MY RESPONSES TO MOST ALL OF tOMMY'S POST ARE IN THE ABOVE TEXT ATTRIBUTED TO HIM. YOU WILL HAVE TO FERRET THOSE REMARKS OUT IF YOU CARE TO READ THEM. mY RESPONSES TO HIS bARTOW STUFF FOLLOWS.

Bartow lasted two years because he had been handed two championship calibur teams and was not up to the task of trying to recruit to compete on a high level. He was handed a team with 8 future pros when he began in the 75-76 season. The team was lead by a trio of top 5 first round picks in the front court, lead by Marcus Johnson. David Greenwood, a 6'9" inch could-do-it-all smooth, strong, athletic, and savy inside player widely regarded as the number 1 recruit in college basketball who went on to play like it, and 6'11" Richard Washington who could shoot mid range and score the ball inside, had been tournament MVP on Wooden's last run. Bartow could go bigger, if needed with either 7'2" Ralph Drollinger and 7' Brett Vrogram, both of whom could play. The team had three guards who played in the pros, one of whom, Andre McCarter had a long pro career, and another, Brad Holland, has had a successful college coaching career after a few years in the pros.

The next year Bartow was handed two more Wooden recruits to join Greenwood, Johnson, Vrogram, Townsend, and Holland. They woulod be KiKi Vandewehge and Keith Wilkes, both multiple-year all pros in the League. Bartowe was not run out of town, but rather got out of the big-time where he did not belong. He left his successor, who had been Wooden's longtime first assistant, with nothing coming in, and that was the beginning of the slide.

Ever see the documentary, Standing in the Shadows of Motown, or the Funk Brothers. The Funk Brothers were THE MOTOWN SOUND. They were a group of about 20 jazz musicians who created the music on the fly behind every Motown star in the '60s. One producer was who had worked with him who had been singing their praises (they played on more top ten hits than Elvis, the Beattles, and the Rolling Stones combined) was asked, "Well, they had some real good young talent out in front of him didn't he?" The producer answered, "Deputy Dog could have been singing them songs and they still would have been hits." Bartow was Deputy Dog.

Which is better, a short immediate dip followed by a resurgence or a short, dropped in your lap wining team followed by a long drought. Bartow left before he had a chance to stand on his own two feet and succeed or fail. His successors did not do too well, to say the least.

First of all, I agree with Jason. The usual spelling errors and, uh, unusual syntax and sentence structure make it hard enough to read and comprehend your posts, but really, you've got to use the quote function properly or else it's just impossible.

Now Greybeard, I love ya. Love your posts, the passion, and the usually offbeat positions you take. I actually look forward to your posts, because if nothing else they're entertaining. But while you're of course entitled to your own opinions, you're not entitled to your own facts, and your post is rife with factual inaccuracies. I'll do the best I can to establish your words in the proper quote boxes and then fill in with mine, so as to make it understandable for other readers.


Bully's don't attract the talent he did. Doesn't happen.

Bob Knight didn't attract talent? Or he wasn't a bully? What about Bob Huggins? No talent? Or not a bully? Frank Martin? Need I go on?


What I find so remarkable about your position is its failure to address Calhoun's health issues.

I understand the health issues. I just don't agree with you that coming back to coach last year with those health issues was in any way heroic. To me it was irresponsible and selfish. Wonder what his family thought of it. And I don't think there's any way he would've done it if he had a less talented team, one he didn't think somehow could pull it together and make a run for another title.


Are you really trying to make the case that some one other than Calhoun's assistant shouldn't have been chosen? Calhoun did not preempt anyone from making a real coaching decision, he just gave them time. If you're in a card game and the administration is holding the hand that Calhoun should, according to you, have left them at the end of last season, you're really going all in that the administration would not do what Calhoun chose, what he would have told them to do?

Like Jason indicated, I think the timing of Calhoun's announcement of his decision left UConn's administrators with no choice other than to give it to Ollie, as this is September and practice starts in a month. How would they be able to hire somebody from the outside at this very late date? Very, very difficult. By waiting until now, Calhoun forced their hand, forced them to hire HIS choice. The right thing to do would've been to announce the retirement months ago to give the administration the time to conduct a thorough search and make the best hire they could. Maybe it would've turned out to be Ollie anyway. But that should've been THEIR decision, not Calhoun's. Again, selfish and arrogant.


First, you didn't watch Georgetown play during that era.

And you know that . . . how? Your presumptuousness, and the inaccuracy of those presumptions, can truly be breathtaking.


Come on. John Thompson had that ability, he had the ability to bring out te best, the unbriddled best in terms of athleticism, decision making, performance, on both sides of the ball, as well as the surity in each player that, well, who knows what the that was accept the players who experienced it and I doubt that any of them could put words around it. How could players on succeeding teams combining to play GEORGETOWN ball looking for whatever that was and not finding it?

The team performed far better in the years preceding Esherick's tenure, and far better in the years after Esherick was fired. Is it possible that was coincidence, and had nothing to do with Esherick? Sure, it's possible. Not reasonable, but possible.


Esherick did quite well and thus cute legerdemain about his recruiting--he didn't get to coach Green and Hibbert, come on. Neither was highly recruited, both turned out to be extraordinary players. Add in Bumptje and Sweetny and that's an awesome array of big men in the wake of the BIG MAN's having left. I do not remember the names of the other guys on Escherick's teams that could really, really play, and don't want to bother to look them up. There were many.

The original John Thompson recruited Boumtje-Boumtje. Esherick recruited and coached Sweetney. He recruited both Green and Hibbert, but didn't coach either one, so it's hard to give him credit for their development. The only big men of note that Esherick coached, then, are Boumtje-Boumtje and Sweetney. Both were nice college players, but that's all. This group was "extraordinary?" "Awesome?" Don't you think that's a bit hyperbolic? And the reason you don't remember the names of the other guys on Esherick's teams is because they were eminently forgettable. I just reviewed their rosters from those years. There was nothing there. Other than the couple of big guys already mentioned, the best player in the Esherick years was Kevin Braswell. No wonder the teams' records were so average.


K can never be in Sport, not just basketball, but sport, what John Thompson was, and Duke, no matter how many championships and pros it produces, will not be what GEORGETOWN was. NEVER.

You don't think the program that Mike Krzyzewski has built in the 30 years he's been at Duke -- both on and off the court -- is equal to what Thompson did during his tenure at Georgetown? Really? Again, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think you would be in a tiny, tiny minority in holding this view. K is almost universally viewed to belong on the Mt. Rushmore of college coaches, along with Wooden and Dean Smith and, depending on the person opining, Rupp, Allen, or a very few others. I've never heard of Thompson even being in that conversation.


Bartow lasted two years because he had been handed two championship calibur teams and was not up to the task of trying to recruit to compete on a high level. He was handed a team with 8 future pros when he began in the 75-76 season. The team was lead by a trio of top 5 first round picks in the front court, lead by Marcus Johnson. David Greenwood, a 6'9" inch could-do-it-all smooth, strong, athletic, and savy inside player widely regarded as the number 1 recruit in college basketball who went on to play like it, and 6'11" Richard Washington who could shoot mid range and score the ball inside, had been tournament MVP on Wooden's last run. Bartow could go bigger, if needed with either 7'2" Ralph Drollinger and 7' Brett Vrogram, both of whom could play. The team had three guards who played in the pros, one of whom, Andre McCarter had a long pro career, and another, Brad Holland, has had a successful college coaching career after a few years in the pros.

Bartow was an accomplished head coach before coming to UCLA, having taken Memphis to the Final Four in 1973, just a couple of years before getting the UCLA job.

Bartow's first UCLA team did indeed have a solid roster. But David Greenwood, a future top 5 pick, was a freshman on that team, who blossomed the following year -- under Bartow. Andre McCarter had an undistinguished three year NBA career. Holland, though he suffered a knee injury, was not a success in the NBA either. Drollinger averaged 7 ppg in his career, Vroman averaged 4 ppg. Serviceable big guys, but that's all.


The next year Bartow was handed two more Wooden recruits to join Greenwood, Johnson, Vrogram, Townsend, and Holland. They woulod be KiKi Vandewehge and Keith Wilkes, both multiple-year all pros in the League. Bartowe was not run out of town, but rather got out of the big-time where he did not belong. He left his successor, who had been Wooden's longtime first assistant, with nothing coming in, and that was the beginning of the slide.

How could he be "handed" two more Wooden recruits when Wooden had been retired for over a year and Bartow was clearly in control of the program, including recruiting? He did get Kiki Vandeweghe, but Keith Wilkes had graduated several years earlier, in 1974. You must have meant James Wilkes, who was nowhere near the player as was Keith (later Jamaal) Wilkes. James never averaged more than 8.8 ppg in his UCLA career.

Bartow had already proven that he "belonged" by virtue of the two Final Fours he had coached teams to, one at Memphis and one at UCLA. He proved it again by building UAB literally from scratch -- he started the program -- and getting them to the Sweet 16 in his third year, the Elite 8 in his fourth, and making 7 straight NCAA appearances and nine overall in his UAB career. Not too shabby.

[UConnJack]

They edited it at the right moment. Just after they cut him off, he said, "You'll never catch me, Jimmy-boy! Nyaah nyaah nyaah nyaah!"

-Jason "I may have imagined that part" Evans

He might not have to if Duke's 2010 title is vacated......

[Duvall]

He might not have to if Duke's 2010 title is vacated......

Good luck this season in the CBI.

[UConnJack]

Good luck this season in the CBI.

Touche'

Although I don't we can play in that either.

[greybeard]

No, I do not drink or use drugs, I have not had a stroke, do not have a brain tumor and have lost no brain function at anytime since birth. It is called a retinal macular pucker; I have one in my left eye. If I close my right eye and look out of my left, vertical lines have a significant bulge that moves with the reorientation of my eye. Looking out of both eyes I do just fine, although I have to say that the degeneration of infrastructure we read so much about has reached telephone poles, all of which, regardless of age, have a slight warp to them in the same direction. Reading, however, is a different story. I read best when I find just the right orientation of my head, and need to "lock in" with the muscles surrounding my eyes to different degrees depending on print size and spacing. When typing and composing in small, tight formats presented here this eye condition plays havoc with my vision that I am not sure I can do justice to, but I'll try. Let me first say that the distortions that I will now attempt to describe do not always arise, but their dimension has increased with the width of the pucker. Also, I cannot say that I am aware of all that happens that disturbs my vision when locking in on reading and also to think through what I want to say starts to strain the muscles that lock in requires (that is a process I have deduced, not something my opthomologist or retinal specialist has put forth. Here goes.

As my lock in focus begins to overload and lock in begins to progressively wane, letters, words in smaller than larger (as long as an entire line) clusters begin to randomly replicate or worse still move, which is to say disappear and then reappear elsewhere. The replicating and moving The replicating and moving occur when I go back into the text as every writer does to move forward consistent with what he or she has written and how. Deleting the second phantom repetition is not the way to go way to go, because then you are left with no way to go. If you think you can always remember that, take a couple of deep breaths. The need to go back, especially if the moving occurs during the course of editing is a nightmare that I am sure you can imagine. Actually, not. Things get particularly pernicious when the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next sentence disappear, leaving me with no clue as to what I said. Reading further is stepping deeper into the mire as the missing words pop up in the midst of an ensuing sentence, often making that sentence jibberish. Of all this sounds disturbing sit for a moment in my shoes and you will know disturbing. The problem is that the process is like getting caught in an under current that you try to fight against thinking that you can overcome it. The harder you work the more frustrated and confused you become until you finally come to appreciate that you should have stopped wading in further when you felt the first tugs, which is to say too late. Sometimes you actually win some of these battles but in the process you can forget how to spell "I"--only a minor overstatement, and end up fighting to find a word that comes close in meaning to use as a substitute only it ruins any chance that what you have written reads.

I could go on but I think you've gotten the jist. I began finding bizzare half spelled words or words so badly spelled that they were unrecognizable in short posts that I reread after the fact. The posts were to the point, were understandable, and often carried a worthwhile thought. I decided I could live with the cost. It was not until I went back to reread a lengthy post about a month or so ago and found it to be horrific jibberish that I understood where this pucker had taken me, or should I say, I had taken it. I toyed with the idea of posting a thread setting forth the explanation I am providing now but decided against it. I resolved instead to keep my posts to a single thought tersely written in a paragraph, maybe two. When I found myself writing something not in integrity with my intention I would leave the webpage, get up from the computer and save us all. There have been times when button pushing issues have arisen that I lost myself in the moment.

I thought I had "manned up" when I decided against the thread but have been made to see (thank you all) that the opposite was true. Where I go from here, I am not sure. I will probably see if now I can stick to my resolve. Should I wish to write something that goes beyond that limiting constraint, I will work in a word document with larger letters and greater spacing.

The good news is that the surgical intervention always fixes the pucker problem and is an easy recovery. The bad news is that in one percent of the cases, an infection sets in that leaves you with one less problem to worry about, if you catch my drift. So far, I am following my expert team's recommendation to live with it. We'll see. :confused:

[tommy]

No, I do not drink or use drugs, I have not had a stroke, do not have a brain tumor and have lost no brain function at anytime since birth. It is called a retinal macular pucker; I have one in my left eye. If I close my right eye and look out of my left, vertical lines have a significant bulge that moves with the reorientation of my eye. Looking out of both eyes I do just fine, although I have to say that the degeneration of infrastructure we read so much about has reached telephone poles, all of which, regardless of age, have a slight warp to them in the same direction. Reading, however, is a different story. I read best when I find just the right orientation of my head, and need to "lock in" with the muscles surrounding my eyes to different degrees depending on print size and spacing. When typing and composing in small, tight formats presented here this eye condition plays havoc with my vision that I am not sure I can do justice to, but I'll try. Let me first say that the distortions that I will now attempt to describe do not always arise, but their dimension has increased with the width of the pucker. Also, I cannot say that I am aware of all that happens that disturbs my vision when locking in on reading and also to think through what I want to say starts to strain the muscles that lock in requires (that is a process I have deduced, not something my opthomologist or retinal specialist has put forth. Here goes.

As my lock in focus begins to overload and lock in begins to progressively wane, letters, words in smaller than larger (as long as an entire line) clusters begin to randomly replicate or worse still move, which is to say disappear and then reappear elsewhere. The replicating and moving The replicating and moving occur when I go back into the text as every writer does to move forward consistent with what he or she has written and how. Deleting the second phantom repetition is not the way to go way to go, because then you are left with no way to go. If you think you can always remember that, take a couple of deep breaths. The need to go back, especially if the moving occurs during the course of editing is a nightmare that I am sure you can imagine. Actually, not. Things get particularly pernicious when the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next sentence disappear, leaving me with no clue as to what I said. Reading further is stepping deeper into the mire as the missing words pop up in the midst of an ensuing sentence, often making that sentence jibberish. Of all this sounds disturbing sit for a moment in my shoes and you will know disturbing. The problem is that the process is like getting caught in an under current that you try to fight against thinking that you can overcome it. The harder you work the more frustrated and confused you become until you finally come to appreciate that you should have stopped wading in further when you felt the first tugs, which is to say too late. Sometimes you actually win some of these battles but in the process you can forget how to spell "I"--only a minor overstatement, and end up fighting to find a word that comes close in meaning to use as a substitute only it ruins any chance that what you have written reads.

I could go on but I think you've gotten the jist. I began finding bizzare half spelled words or words so badly spelled that they were unrecognizable in short posts that I reread after the fact. The posts were to the point, were understandable, and often carried a worthwhile thought. I decided I could live with the cost. It was not until I went back to reread a lengthy post about a month or so ago and found it to be horrific jibberish that I understood where this pucker had taken me, or should I say, I had taken it. I toyed with the idea of posting a thread setting forth the explanation I am providing now but decided against it. I resolved instead to keep my posts to a single thought tersely written in a paragraph, maybe two. When I found myself writing something not in integrity with my intention I would leave the webpage, get up from the computer and save us all. There have been times when button pushing issues have arisen that I lost myself in the moment.

I thought I had "manned up" when I decided against the thread but have been made to see (thank you all) that the opposite was true. Where I go from here, I am not sure. I will probably see if now I can stick to my resolve. Should I wish to write something that goes beyond that limiting constraint, I will work in a word document with larger letters and greater spacing.

The good news is that the surgical intervention always fixes the pucker problem and is an easy recovery. The bad news is that in one percent of the cases, an infection sets in that leaves you with one less problem to worry about, if you catch my drift. So far, I am following my expert team's recommendation to live with it. We'll see. :confused:

Grey,

Thanks so much for your post. I'm sure it wasn't easy for you to reveal all of that. While I'm sure all of us will continue to have our own opinions, and enjoy the debate, I for one will no longer be giving you a hard time for your spelling and syntax/structure related issues in your posts, as obviously there is a reason for it that is not your fault. Maybe one option would be to write first in Word, and use the spellcheck and other editing features, then when it's in good shape, copy/paste it into a post on DBR. I don't know, just an idea. In any event, best of luck to you in your battle with this condition, and I look forward to continued spirited, positive, and respectful debates with you.

[Cameron]

I think it depends on whether you think the Coach's first loyalty should be to the program or to his assistant coaches. If the coach should be loyal, first and foremost, to the program/school then retiring at a time that gives the school time to do a proper search is the proper thing to do. There is nothing to say that you cannot strongly recommend your assistant for the job and even push for him to get it, but you are giving the program/school options at that point. Personally, I fail to see the loyalty in putting your school in a tough place.

-Jason

You're right, it all depends on your perspective of how you think the order of things should be -- should the coach show more loyalty to his staff or to the school he represents. I think the answer is probably a little bit of both.

In Dean Smith's case, I'm sure that he firmly believed he was making the best decision for both parties involved at that point in time in 1997. Being that North Carolina would never have entertained a national coaching search anyhow due to the basketball program's strong affinity for keeping things in the family, Dean obviously felt strongly that the school could do no better from within the organization at that particular juncture in the program's history than Bill Guthridge, who had spent 30 years at UNC as Smith's right-hand man. He was a Tar Heel lifer who had been a significant cog in two national titles and 10 of the Final Fours that the program achieved under Smith, so who better to transition the program into the post-Smith era than a man who learned from and embodied everything that Smith stood for.

Dean left behind one hell of a roster when he retired. That 1997-98 UNC squad had the ingredients to make for one of the greatest teams in college basketball history. We all know the names. Guys like Bersticker, Ndiaye and Newby. Just kidding:) With the core of the 1996-97 team that had reached the Final Four and won the ACC championship all coming back, there is no doubt that Dean believed it was in the best interests of the university to entrust the care of Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter and Shammond Williams in the hands of someone with the utmost familiarity to the program, someone like Bill Guthridge, who had given decades of dedicated service and had proven he deserved the opportunity.

I imagine that Jim Calhoun thinks similarly of Kevin Ollie.

[jimsumner]

For the record, I have no problem with Dean Smith being ahead of Jim Calhoun on the career-wins list.

[sagegrouse]

You're right, it all depends on your perspective of how you think the order of things should be -- should the coach show more loyalty to his staff or to the school he represents. I think the answer is probably a little bit of both.



This ain't no conundrum. Look at your paycheck, Calhoun. Who's it from? UConn, maybe? Read your contract, especially the general terms about "best effort," "sole loyalty," and so forth. Resigning or retiring in a way that is best for the program is a duty of the head coach. And, no, I don't expect Jim Calhoun to acknowledge this, but he should.

sagegrouse

[uh_no]

You're right, it all depends on your perspective of how you think the order of things should be -- should the coach show more loyalty to his staff or to the school he represents. I think the answer is probably a little bit of both.

In Dean Smith's case, I'm sure that he firmly believed he was making the best decision for both parties involved at that point in time in 1997. Being that North Carolina would never have entertained a national coaching search anyhow due to the basketball program's strong affinity for keeping things in the family, Dean obviously felt strongly that the school could do no better from within the organization at that particular juncture in the program's history than Bill Guthridge, who had spent 30 years at UNC as Smith's right-hand man. He was a Tar Heel lifer who had been a significant cog in two national titles and 10 of the Final Fours that the program achieved under Smith, so who better to transition the program into the post-Smith era than a man who learned from and embodied everything that Smith stood for.

Dean left behind one hell of a roster when he retired. That 1997-98 UNC squad had the ingredients to make for one of the greatest teams in college basketball history. We all know the names. Guys like Bersticker, Ndiaye and Newby. Just kidding:) With the core of the 1996-97 team that had reached the Final Four and won the ACC championship all coming back, there is no doubt that Dean believed it was in the best interests of the university to entrust the care of Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter and Shammond Williams in the hands of someone with the utmost familiarity to the program, someone like Bill Guthridge, who had given decades of dedicated service and had proven he deserved the opportunity.

I imagine that Jim Calhoun thinks similarly of Kevin Ollie.

I think uconn is in a different boat...I'm pretty sure they're gonna be starting a few of the players off the women's team... :P

That said, they have a few good guards, but are hugely lacking in size....i doubt they make the tournament next year....OH WAIT...that's already been decided

[Cameron]

This ain't no conundrum. Look at your paycheck, Calhoun. Who's it from? UConn, maybe? Read your contract, especially the general terms about "best effort," "sole loyalty," and so forth. Resigning or retiring in a way that is best for the program is a duty of the head coach. And, no, I don't expect Jim Calhoun to acknowledge this, but he should.

sagegrouse

With regard to how Calhoun handled his retirement, maybe that's true, maybe he made a poor decision in automatically handing over the reins of the Connecticut program to Kevin Ollie, whom I've never even really heard referred to as a top-flight assistant before. (Although, I could certainly be wrong.) But with regard to how Dean Smith handled his, I maintain my position that he did what he thought was best for the university by essentially entrusting the program in the care of Bill Guthridge after retiring abruptly in October of 1997. With the nucleus North Carolina had coming back from its Final Four run the year before and the astounding championship-level career Guthridge had experienced as next-in-line at Carolina for three decades honing his craft under Smith's tutelage, in the interests of sustaining the foundation of success that had already been set, giving Guthridge control of the Tar Heels basketball team was, IMO, the best move. And, as I have said, I am sure that's why Dean made sure it happened.

While Guthridge's head coaching career came to a mundane end just a few short years later -- if you can call a visit to the Final Four mundane -- he did take Carolina to the brink of a championship in 1998 with that aforementioned nucleus, falling just short to Utah in the national semi-finals, which would go on to give Kentucky all they wanted in that year's final. Luckily, for us, the ball just didn't bounce Carolina's way. But I certainly wouldn't conclude that Dean Smith's decision to basically hand his job over to Bill Guthridge was in any way a decision that wasn't good for the program.

That's your opinion.

[uh_no]

With regard to how Calhoun handled his retirement, maybe that's true, maybe he made a poor decision in automatically handing over the reins of the Connecticut program to Kevin Ollie, whom I've never even really heard referred to as a top-flight assistant before. (Although, I could certainly be wrong.) But with regard to how Dean Smith handled his, I maintain my position that he did what he thought was best for the university by essentially entrusting the program in the care of Bill Guthridge after retiring abruptly in October of 1997. With the nucleus North Carolina had coming back from its Final Four run the year before and the astounding championship-level career Guthridge had experienced as next-in-line at Carolina for three decades honing his craft under Smith's tutelage, in the interests of sustaining the foundation of success that had already been set, giving Guthridge control of the Tar Heels basketball team was, IMO, the best move. And, as I have said, I am sure that's why Dean made sure it happened.

While Guthridge's head coaching career came to a mundane end just a few short years later -- if you can call a visit to the Final Four mundane -- he did take Carolina to the brink of a championship in 1998 with that aforementioned nucleus, falling just short to Utah in the national semi-finals, which would go on to give Kentucky all they wanted in that year's final. Luckily, for us, the ball just didn't bounce Carolina's way. But I certainly wouldn't conclude that Dean Smith's decision to basically hand his job over to Bill Guthridge was in any way a decision that wasn't good for the program.

That's your opinion.

Ollie has a 1 year contract in what will in essence be a throw-away season for the program. There aren't any titles, there aren't any post seasons.

Best case: he's a really good coach who brings in a stellar calss for next year
worst case: he stinks it up, doesn't get renewed, and they bring in a new guy for when the program can actually go to the post season.

I don't think there's much downside of giving him a shot, especially when he has been doing most of the recruiting and being prepped by calhoun to be top dog anyway.

[Cameron]

Ollie has a 1 year contract in what will in essence be a throw-away season for the program. There aren't any titles, there aren't any post seasons.

Best case: he's a really good coach who brings in a stellar calss for next year
worst case: he stinks it up, doesn't get renewed, and they bring in a new guy for when the program can actually go to the post season.

I don't think there's much downside of giving him a shot, especially when he has been doing most of the recruiting and being prepped by calhoun to be top dog anyway.

I think you answered sagegrouse's post better than I. I agree with you.

[BD80]

Jimmy reeled in an extra $1.3 million by delaying the announcement of his retirement into September:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/20252477/uconn-on-the-hook-to-pay-calhoun-almost-another-3-million

I'll bet he fell off his bike this summer because he saw a nickel on the ground and tried to brake too quickly.

[Duvall]

Jimmy reeled in an extra $1.3 million by delaying the announcement of his retirement into September:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/20252477/uconn-on-the-hook-to-pay-calhoun-almost-another-3-million

That's a lot of dimes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xokthY5zuPU)

[NSDukeFan]

That's a lot of dimes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xokthY5zuPU)

I am guessing he won't be giving any of them back.

[tommy]

Jimmy reeled in an extra $1.3 million by delaying the announcement of his retirement into September:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/20252477/uconn-on-the-hook-to-pay-calhoun-almost-another-3-million


What a guy. He's just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he?

[sagegrouse]

Jimmy reeled in an extra $1.3 million by delaying the announcement of his retirement into September:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/20252477/uconn-on-the-hook-to-pay-calhoun-almost-another-3-million

I'll bet he fell off his bike this summer because he saw a nickel on the ground and tried to brake too quickly.

Who negotiates these deals? Don't they read the terms? Calhoun gets over 90 percent of what he would have gotten to coach, although I presume there is an "evergreen" aspect that renews the retirement provision every year.

Anyway, I take my criticism back. He has to max out under the terms of the contract. And clearly, he cares more about himself than about Kevin Ollie.

sagegrouse

[OldPhiKap]

Who negotiates these deals? Don't they read the terms? Calhoun gets over 90 percent of what he would have gotten to coach, although I presume there is an "evergreen" aspect that renews the retirement provision every year.

Anyway, I take my criticism back. He has to max out under the terms of the contract. And clearly, he cares more about himself than about Kevin Ollie.

sagegrouse

To be fair, he had to live in Storrs.

[greybeard]

Who negotiates these deals? Don't they read the terms? Calhoun gets over 90 percent of what he would have gotten to coach, although I presume there is an "evergreen" aspect that renews the retirement provision every year.

Anyway, I take my criticism back. He has to max out under the terms of the contract. And clearly, he cares more about himself than about Kevin Ollie.

sagegrouse

I don't get it, Whey would UConn's administrators begrudge Calhoun the money, why would not want him to have it? He brough them championhsips, and countless great teams that were always great to watch, he played hurt, real hurt, and had earned the University scores of money. In this day of mega buck golden parashuttes given to executes did nothing but taken the companies that they lead, Calhoun's 1.5 million is nice, nothing more.

As for leaving Ollie in a bad position, that position falls of its own weight. Either Ollie stands as a good selection for the job or he does not. If Ollie presents as a good choice, he is well positioned to prove it--he is familiar with his players and they are with him, he has spent months brainingstorming strategies that fit his personnel, and has been operating under the radar, that is under constant questioning by the press, including questions similar to the ones presented here. On the other hand, if Ollie does not present as well as some other candidates who might have been avaiable had Calhoun announced earlier, then Ollie has been given an opportunity to prove himself that no one can say he has not earned and no one can predict that he won't succeed at. At the same time, if nothing else Ollie will serve as the perfect place saver and UConn will have had the chance to deliberat about whom to hire with potential canditions having had the time to align themselves for consideration. I would have to think that Calhoun's opinion will carry considerable weight in any such selection, if Ollie were to falter.

I don't see the beef. But, then again, Calhoun did not out coach K to win a national championship against my school.

[cato]

I don't see the beef. But, then again, Calhoun did not out coach K to win a national championship against my school.

Classy!

[greybeard]

I do not see how UConn would be in a better position had Calhoun announced that he was retiring at the end of UConn's season, assuming that he had made the decision as of that time, which is assuming alot. Anyone signing with UConn since Calhoun's last cancer diagnosis would have had understood at the time of signing that there was more than a decent chance that they'd be playing for someone else before they left, or perhaps even their first season, which would have been the case this year had he announced earlier.

Ollie is familar with the players coming back and with the new recruits. Signing him to a one-year deal lets all those coaches out there know that there is more than a decent likelihood that there will be an opening at UConn at the end of the season. That cannot hurt UConn if they decide not to stay with Ollie, which everyone here seems to have concluded won't happen.

I doubt that any of Calhoun's former assistants will begrudge Calhoun Ollie's selection. If they do, so what. You ca'tn please everyone. Ollie, it seems to me, was the logical choice. I think it a stretch to think that a former assistant would uproot for a chance to be a place sitter, and I cannot see the logic to choosing to offer him one.

As far as Calhoun's having thrown assistants involved in a scandal under the bus, they belong somewhere else? In any event, that's how it works, everywhere.

The Big East had its run. The old lions who built something out of nothing are long gone, the experiment worked beyond realistic expectation, and now there is something new. Calling it the Big East will not make it so. That ship has sailed. Progress has its costs.

[Indoor66]

The Big East had its run. The old lions who built something out of nothing are long gone, the experiment worked beyond realistic expectation, and now there is something new. Calling it the Big East will not make it so. That ship has sailed. Progress has its costs.

Every form of refuge has its price, as a great poet said in song.

[OldPhiKap]

Every form of refuge has its price, as a great poet said in song.

As another said:

Your old road is rapidly fading
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times, they are a-changing

[greybeard]

Or, "he not busy being born, is busy dying" The Bard