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View Full Version : Welcome to Duke, Semi Ojeleye!



cmccoy11
09-09-2012, 08:27 PM
As reported by scout, Ojeleye is a blue devil!
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=2&c=1219859&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fscouthoops.scout.com%2f2 %2f1219859.html

Kedsy
09-09-2012, 08:30 PM
As reported by scout, Ojeleye is a blue devil!
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=2&c=1219859&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fscouthoops.scout.com%2f2 %2f1219859.html

Cool. Jim Sumner is right, once again.

COYS
09-09-2012, 08:34 PM
Excellent news! Welcome to Duke!

Greg_Newton
09-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Nice!

Recent highlights: http://www.prepforce.com/video/1898

Very solid long-term prospects as a 3/4 combo for us. Should contribute in many ways before he becomes a polished SF draft prospect (defense, rebounding, versatility/strength/athleticism), which is becoming an increasingly important attribute for a recruit.

BD80
09-09-2012, 08:37 PM
Not half bad!

I'm wholly happy!

duke blue brewcrew
09-09-2012, 08:59 PM
I guess the in home visit went well! It's nice to see the recruiting bell ring again for Duke Basketball...especially with a talent like Semi Ojeleye! Welcome to Duke young man.

PSurprise
09-09-2012, 08:59 PM
So I haven't been following the recruiting threads too closely...How do you pronounce his name?

Welcome to Duke!

OZZIE4DUKE
09-09-2012, 09:15 PM
So I haven't been following the recruiting threads too closely...How do you pronounce his name?

Welcome to Duke!

Welcome to Duke, Semi! :cool: How DO you pronounce your names? :D

theschwartz
09-09-2012, 09:52 PM
Welcome to Duke, Semi! :cool: How DO you pronounce your names? :D

I asked a Nigerian friend that very question. I believe it's pronounced O-juh-LAY-yee. Emphasis on 1st & 3rd si-LAH-buhls.

Anyway, it's awesome news. With or without Jabari, we're going to be stacked at SF for the next few years.

bluedevil007
09-09-2012, 09:54 PM
At least we get some good news this weekend. Welcome to Duke!

Edouble
09-09-2012, 10:16 PM
Great news... Semi is ranked #30 on Rivals, #38 on ESPN, in the overall rankings for the Class of 2013.

6'6", 220 is a great size for a small forward just heading into his senior year of high school.

From ESPN: He's a strong bodied wing and a good athlete. Good skills and he's a good shooter with his feet set to 22 feet. Solid 3-point shooter. Semi is a terrific rebounder for his size.

Big Pappa
09-09-2012, 10:17 PM
Great news! Quick question for anyone in the know: How does the get of Semi affect (positively or negatively) the recruitment of Randle and Parker?

Kedsy
09-09-2012, 10:20 PM
Great news! Quick question for anyone in the know: How does the get of Semi affect (positively or negatively) the recruitment of Randle and Parker?

I'm not in the know, but my guess is it has little (if any) effect, other than the fact that if we get another fall commitment (e.g., Austin Nichols) then we have just one remaining scholarship.

Edouble
09-09-2012, 10:26 PM
Great news! Quick question for anyone in the know: How does the get of Semi affect (positively or negatively) the recruitment of Randle and Parker?

With my limited knowledge, I would say not much at all. From my understanding, Randle and Parker are among the top 3-4 players in their class.

That kind of player is rarely affected by anyone else's recruitment, even someone else at their same position, i.e. Chris Duhon and Jason Williams, or John Wall and Eric Bledsoe, will both start and be on the court at the same time.

That said, I believe that Randle is more of a power forward and Semi is more of a small forward.

Edit: OH! Unless you are refering to number of scholys.. don't know, but I can't see us turning down a commit from Randle or Parker because we went one over. Gotta think the staff will work that one out.

mgtr
09-09-2012, 10:27 PM
This is great news! Any chance that Ojeleye is Nigerian for "truck".:)

nmduke2001
09-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Nice!

Recent highlights: http://www.prepforce.com/video/1898

Very solid long-term prospects as a 3/4 combo for us. Should contribute in many ways before he becomes a polished SF draft prospect (defense, rebounding, versatility/strength/athleticism), which is becoming an increasingly important attribute for a recruit.

Based solely on this highlight video, he reminds me a bit of Nate James. Nothing flashy, just gets the job done.

Edouble
09-09-2012, 10:51 PM
Based solely on this highlight video, he reminds me a bit of Nate James. Nothing flashy, just gets the job done.

Nate was so much bigger than everyone else at his position (as a senior) though. Semi reminds me more of a taller Daniel Ewing. Lots of stuttering, looks a bit mean, can shoot it if he has too, seems to have a nose for the basket.

CampbellBlueDevil
09-09-2012, 11:01 PM
Versatility and size on the wing.

Sweet!

Greg_Newton
09-10-2012, 12:01 AM
Great news... Semi is ranked #30 on Rivals, #38 on ESPN, in the overall rankings for the Class of 2013.

6'6", 220 is a great size for a small forward just heading into his senior year of high school.

From ESPN: He's a strong bodied wing and a good athlete. Good skills and he's a good shooter with his feet set to 22 feet. Solid 3-point shooter. Semi is a terrific rebounder for his size.

FWIW, he's also ranked #24 by Scout and #18 on 247, and #24 on the "247 composite" (RSCI-type thing).

I think his greatest strengths right now are his power, body control and explosiveness around the rim. He's built like a 6'6" receiving TE. His handle is still a little shaky for his wing, IMO, but that's okay if he can shoot/finish/rebound/defend. I also really like the fact that he should be able to defend and rebound the stretch-4 position in addition to the wing.

tommy
09-10-2012, 12:34 AM
Cool. Jim Sumner is right, once again.

And, to be fair, Mark Watson called this one as Duke's next commitment several months ago too.

Olympic Fan
09-10-2012, 01:15 AM
The kid is (1) a very good student; (2) a great kid from a great family and (3) a great wing athlete, strong and quick.

He has NO impact on our pursuit of Randle/Parker. It does probably mean we back off Robert Hubbs and Ish Wainwright.

Semi and Matt Jones gives us two superb players on the wing -- and two guys who will be multiple year players. Not saying they will be four-year guys, but they won't be one and done either.

I think Coach K wants to sign one big body this fall to go with these two guys -- Austin Nichols is the prime fall target at the moment. Randle/Parker will decide this spring. Not saying we get either, but extremely unlikely we get both.

Even without a defection or early NBA jump, we have room for four recruits in this class In 2013-14 Thornton, Harrison and Dawkins will be seniors; Cook will be a junior; Murphy, MP3, Sulaimon, Jefferson and Hood will be sophs -- that's nine players ... Jones and Ojeleye make 11.

Hopefully, Nichols is No. 12 and either Parker or Randle will be No. 13.

Ian
09-10-2012, 01:55 AM
His game reminds a lot of Brian Davis.

moonpie23
09-10-2012, 07:10 AM
WElcome to DUKE !!!!!

NSDukeFan
09-10-2012, 08:13 AM
Dave Telep ‏@DaveTelep

Can't get Semi Ojeleye on the phone. He committed to Duke and go figure, he immediately went to workout at the gym.

Sounds like a great young man. I am excited to see him play for Duke.

GopherBlue
09-10-2012, 08:45 AM
Great to have some good news on this Monday morning.

Since nobody has started a nickname thread yet, I'll get things started:

The obvious: Semi-automatic

And the Berman-esque: Ojaleye-can-you-see?

sagegrouse
09-10-2012, 09:38 AM
And the Berman-esque: Ojaleye-can-you-see?

Which brings up the question, "How does one pronounce Ojaleye?"

sage

jimsumner
09-10-2012, 10:43 AM
Cool. Jim Sumner is right, once again.

Just reading the tea leaves. There are folks--at least one of whom posts on this board--who know more about recruiting than do I.

Saratoga2
09-10-2012, 10:43 AM
The kid is (1) a very good student; (2) a great kid from a great family and (3) a great wing athlete, strong and quick.

He has NO impact on our pursuit of Randle/Parker. It does probably mean we back off Robert Hubbs and Ish Wainwright.

Semi and Matt Jones gives us two superb players on the wing -- and two guys who will be multiple year players. Not saying they will be four-year guys, but they won't be one and done either.

I think Coach K wants to sign one big body this fall to go with these two guys -- Austin Nichols is the prime fall target at the moment. Randle/Parker will decide this spring. Not saying we get either, but extremely unlikely we get both.

Even without a defection or early NBA jump, we have room for four recruits in this class In 2013-14 Thornton, Harrison and Dawkins will be seniors; Cook will be a junior; Murphy, MP3, Sulaimon, Jefferson and Hood will be sophs -- that's nine players ... Jones and Ojeleye make 11.


Hopefully, Nichols is No. 12 and either Parker or Randle will be No. 13.


Your description makes Semi sound like an ideal pickup for Duke. Being a good student and being a serious kid are big helps to fit in at Duke. Clearly, our emphasis should be on getting another big body and preferably one who will stay more than one year. I not up on the details of the potential recruits but I believe Randle has the size although I wonder about him remaining with the program for more than a year due to his exceptional ability. Is Austin Nichols also a big body type?

ChillinDuke
09-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Welcome to Duke, Semi!!!

Excited to have you on board!!!

- Chillin

CDu
09-10-2012, 11:03 AM
Sounds like a great get. So we now have 11 players on scholarship for next year: Cook, Thornton, Sulaimon, Dawkins, Jones, Hood, Ojeleye, Murphy, Jefferson, Hairston, Plumlee. That gives us a lot of versatility on the perimeter with multiple guys who can guard 3 positions. I'd guess one of the last two spots will go to a big (Nichols? Lee? Randle?) and one will be held available for Randle and/or Parker.

Unless, of course, Dawkins decides to graduate and just move on (which may or may not be a possibility).

In any case, Ojeleye sounds like a great addition. I love that we're not getting cheated in the "long, athletic, wing" spots anymore. Lots of 6'5"-6'8" athletes on this team moving forward.

killerleft
09-10-2012, 11:08 AM
Great to have some good news on this Monday morning.

Since nobody has started a nickname thread yet, I'll get things started:

The obvious: Semi-automatic

And the Berman-esque: Ojaleye-can-you-see?

Think lederhosen. Think mountaintop! Think, "O-juh-Lay-yee-HOO!" How cool, a yodeling reference:D:rolleyes:

gumbomoop
09-10-2012, 12:17 PM
From ESPN: He's a strong bodied wing and a good athlete. Good skills and he's a good shooter with his feet set to 22 feet. Solid 3-point shooter. Semi is a terrific rebounder for his size.

I was surprised to read Telep's reference to Ojeleye as "a noted marksman behind the line."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8360894/semi-ojeleye-decides-play-duke-blue-devils

Although in the highlight reel I've watched, he does make some 3-bombs, I wouldn't describe his shooting form as smooth or excellent. I'm glad he can be a threat out there, but his strength getting to the basket is more impressive, at first glance.

I'd also sure like to see a highlight reel, on almost any player, that glances at the player's D, beyond, say, Nerlens Noel's shot-blocking. Ojeleye definitely looks "strong bodied," so I'm hoping down the road for fierce D against opposing 3s, maybe 4s, too.

tommy
09-10-2012, 12:28 PM
Great to have some good news on this Monday morning.

Since nobody has started a nickname thread yet, I'll get things started:

The obvious: Semi-automatic

And the Berman-esque: Ojaleye-can-you-see?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think his first name is actually pronounced either "Shemmy" or "Shimmy."

flyingdutchdevil
09-10-2012, 02:08 PM
One of the posts that keeps on coming up on DBR is the scenario in which Coach K plays 5 Grant Hills. Well, Coach K may never play it, but he almost certainly could in 2013-2014! Alex Murphy, Rodney Hood, and Semi Ojeleye are all quintessential 3s. With Dawkins, who has historically played the 3 (although more of a pure 2), we have another player that fits the bill. Amile, right now, is a 3 (needs to bulk up considerably to be considered a true 4) but I suspect will be a 4 by the time the 2013-2014 season roles around. Sulaimon and Jones are clearly 2s, but could probably be spread 3s in the case of a hot, 3-pt shooting team. And if Parker commits, then that brings another true 3 into the mix.

I know this season hasn't started (and I am extremely excited about this season), but next year is going to be ridiculously intriguing. Athleticism and 3-pt shooting will be aplenty. The question will be if Gottlieb refers to our team as 'Alarmingly athletic' or says something stupid again like 'Alarmingly short' or 'Alarmingly slow'. I'm gonna miss Gottlieb on ESPN....

-bdbd
09-10-2012, 02:24 PM
So I haven't been following the recruiting threads too closely...How do you pronounce his name?

Welcome to Duke!

Pronunciation answer: "Blue' De'vil"

Welcome Semi!!!!

From the videos he sure looks built up in the upper body. I was thinking Nate parallels as well.

It is nice to have the "problem" of too many McD AA's being interested in your program for the available scholarships....

I'm thinking we now target signing one of the 2013 bigs (a la Nicols or Lee), and then one of the "Supers," such as Randle or Parker.

Great get for the Duke staff. SO seems like a really sharp, top-notch individual.
:D

CDu
09-10-2012, 02:30 PM
One of the posts that keeps on coming up on DBR is the scenario in which Coach K plays 5 Grant Hills. Well, Coach K may never play it, but he almost certainly could in 2013-2014! Alex Murphy, Rodney Hood, and Semi Ojeleye are all quintessential 3s. With Dawkins, who has historically played the 3 (although more of a pure 2), we have another player that fits the bill. Amile, right now, is a 3 (needs to bulk up considerably to be considered a true 4) but I suspect will be a 4 by the time the 2013-2014 season roles around. Sulaimon and Jones are clearly 2s, but could probably be spread 3s in the case of a hot, 3-pt shooting team. And if Parker commits, then that brings another true 3 into the mix.

I know this season hasn't started (and I am extremely excited about this season), but next year is going to be ridiculously intriguing. Athleticism and 3-pt shooting will be aplenty. The question will be if Gottlieb refers to our team as 'Alarmingly athletic' or says something stupid again like 'Alarmingly short' or 'Alarmingly slow'. I'm gonna miss Gottlieb on ESPN....

Well, to be fair, only 3 of those guys (Hood, Murphy, Ojeleye) could reasonably fit the "Grant Hill type" bill in any way, shape, or form. Dawkins is a SF in a SG body. Jefferson is a PF in a SF body. Neither have anywhere near the versatility to play 3-4 positions. And only Hood is anywhere close to the ballhandler needed to run the offense (and I'd say he's not close to suited for that). And Sulaimon and Jones are the types of wings we've been forced to play at the 3 for much of the 2000s (Ewing, Redick, Dawkins, Rivers, etc).

Still, I do like that we're getting plenty of big wings and athletes capable of playing PF. One can win with 6'3" or 6'4" wing players and slow PFs, but it makes things more difficult.

BD80
09-10-2012, 04:03 PM
You know, the Olympic coaching thing has turned into a MAJOR problem!

When else have we been so hard-pressed against the scholarship limit?


If Ojeleye gets fouled making a 3-pointer, would he then have a chance at a ....

SEMI-FOUR ?

Indoor66
09-10-2012, 04:30 PM
If Ojeleye gets fouled making a 3-pointer, would he then have a chance at a ....

SEMI-FOUR ?

Only if you can flag down a ref....

MChambers
09-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Only if you can flag down a ref....
Sounds like he is an impressive young man.

Wonder if he is better in the half court, full court, or Semi court?

NSDukeFan
09-10-2012, 05:55 PM
Sounds like he is an impressive young man.

Wonder if he is better in the half court, full court, or Semi court?

He is supposedly very good around the semi-circle.

dcar1985
09-10-2012, 07:06 PM
Congrats to Semi, welcome to Duke....btw his name is pronounce "Shimmy" not Semi

mgtr
09-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Congrats to Semi, welcome to Duke....btw his name is pronounce "Shimmy" not Semi

Does he have a sister Kate?

Jim3k
09-10-2012, 08:13 PM
If Ojeleye gets fouled making a 3-pointer, would he then have a chance at a ....

SEMI-FOUR ?

He has seen the light governing the next section of track and it is green! (Well...it seems to also be Blue!)

watzone
09-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Here is a good a write up as any which gives the reader a little background on Semi Ojeleye http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/09/semi-semi-ya-duke-lands-semi-ojeleye/

I've seen him play a good 14 times and he's a solid prospect. Good hands, decent ball handler, good defender, can guard multiple positions, can drain the three, mix it up when he has too (guarded the tallest prospect in the nation during the NBAPA Top 100 Camp) and can finish with the flush in the post.

Greg_Newton
09-10-2012, 10:09 PM
...guarded the tallest prospect in the nation during the NBAPA Top 100 Camp...

I forgot about that. And Mamadou is enorrrrmous...

2790

OldPhiKap
09-10-2012, 11:50 PM
Welcome to the family!!!

FerryFor50
09-11-2012, 05:00 AM
Very excited for this get, especially considering the potential for his rebounding skills at the 2 and 3 position, something sorely lacking this season.

gumbomoop
09-11-2012, 08:40 AM
Thanks to watzone for the article link in post #44, and to the author of that article, for all the useful detail on Ojeleye. We get a good sense of his work ethic, his skills and multiple strengths, but also areas that still need work.

watzone
09-11-2012, 09:19 AM
I forgot about that. And Mamadou is enorrrrmous...

2790

I was front and center for that game and it was interesting watching Ojeleye try and keep a body on him. He held his own in the game as well where the stats were about even. It showed me that Ojeleye was willing to take on all comers.

watzone
09-11-2012, 09:39 AM
Thanks to watzone for the article link in post #44, and to the author of that article, for all the useful detail on Ojeleye. We get a good sense of his work ethic, his skills and multiple strengths, but also areas that still need work.

Thanks. Andrew Slater is my fellow recruiting analyst and there is nobody that has more knowledge of the players and programs on the AAU trail than does he. Slater is vey detail oriented and we do a lot of research on the kids for BDN Premium members. Slater is a protege of a well known analyst, Tom Konchalski, so he has learned from some of the best the business has to offer. Ojeleye is a young man that between us we've seen play 20 or more times. He played for a lesser AAU team early on which casued him to not get the exposure some other prospects manage. Coach K saw a player in Ojeleye, that had a lot of natural gifts and he obviously felt he could make him an even better player. Duke turned it up quickly on Ojeleye in April, with USA duties around the corner and always felt he was a good fit at Duke. Ojeleye is a good student and a grounded young man who just goes out and plays hard taking on all comers and the article details how his game has developed and been gained more notice at the national level. I'm very happy that this young man has come aboard Ship Blue Devil.

licc85
09-13-2012, 02:59 PM
No. 38 overall player and no.9 SF. Welcome to Duke!

CDu
09-13-2012, 03:03 PM
No. 38 overall player and no.9 SF. Welcome to Duke!

Just a few days behind the times...

UrinalCake
09-13-2012, 03:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f_DPrSEOEo

JasonEvans
09-13-2012, 04:22 PM
In fairness, licc85 is in Nanjing, China. I am not sure how the whole time zone thing works over there but it is very possible that he actually got the scoop on this news and posted it 3 or 4 days ago China-time ;)

-Jason "we kid because we care ;) " Evans

BD80
09-13-2012, 04:40 PM
In fairness, licc85 is in Nanjing, China. ...

So you're excusing him because he's in a different Semi-sphere?

flyingdutchdevil
12-15-2012, 07:13 AM
...states that Semi has a 4.0 GPA and that he is ranked first in his class academically. Coach K may be the number 1 reason for recruits to go to Duke, but academics are certainly second. The opportunity to learn in a top 10 (more like top 8) institution cannot be overstated. The phenom athletics are just gravy, IMO.

From Langdon to Battier to Mason Plumlee to Sheed to Semi, we just have some crazy (academically) smart players (I know I'm forgetting a lot of players).

Hey, if our recruiting strategy is "goofy white guys", smart kids, and a top 5 player here and there, I'm not one to complain. It's a nice strategy to have.

sagegrouse
12-15-2012, 08:28 AM
From Langdon to Battier to Mason Plumlee to Sheed to Semi, we just have some crazy (academically) smart players (I know I'm forgetting a lot of players).

.

IIRC (and there is always a first time) the 1991-1993 Blue Devils had three players that were valedictorians or salutatorians in high school: Hurley, Thomas Hill, and Antonio Lang. And Grant Hill is no dummy!

sagegrouse

OldPhiKap
12-15-2012, 08:36 AM
IIRC (and there is always a first time) the 1991-1993 Blue Devils had three players that were valedictorians or salutatorians in high school: Hurley, Thomas Hill, and Antonio Lang. And Grant Hill is no dummy!

sagegrouse

No one ever dared to grade Nate James.

camion
12-15-2012, 08:48 AM
No one ever dared to grade Nate James.

You don't grade Nate James. Nate James grades you.

OldPhiKap
12-15-2012, 09:12 AM
You don't grade Nate James. Nate James grades you.

Nate James grades on a Richter Scale.

miramar
12-15-2012, 09:57 AM
You don't grade Nate James. Nate James grades you.

And everybody else flunks.

Indoor66
12-15-2012, 10:57 AM
Nate James grades on a Richter Scale.

Only the Big Bang grades higher.

mkline09
12-15-2012, 11:20 AM
Only the Big Bang grades higher.

Nate James caused the Big Bang when he clapped his hands.

ricks68
12-15-2012, 12:55 PM
Nate James caused the Big Bang when he clapped his hands.

No, that was Patrick Davidson.:)

ricks

moonpie23
12-15-2012, 01:20 PM
report cards feared nate james...

4Gen
12-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Nate James went on safari so the animals could see him.

Native
12-15-2012, 05:46 PM
Nate James has wrestled with an alligator.

He done tussled with a whale.

He done handcuffed lighting, and thrown thunder in jail!

He's one bad dude.

Duke of Nashville
12-15-2012, 07:33 PM
Nate James can light a bubble gum cigar.....without a lighter.

On Topic:

Next year Duke is going to be electric. Giggity.

roywhite
12-15-2012, 07:35 PM
Isaac Hayes may have had different lyrics if Nate had been around for this Oscar-winning theme song done in 1971.

Isaac Hayes: Shaft (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFvRvSxsW-I)

For the younger fans, seeing this performed on the 1972 Academy Awards show was a real hoot.

OZZIE4DUKE
12-15-2012, 09:24 PM
Isaac Hayes may have had different lyrics if Nate had been around for this Oscar-winning theme song done in 1971.

Isaac Hayes: Shaft (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFvRvSxsW-I)

For the younger fans, seeing this performed on the 1972 Academy Awards show was a real hoot.

I used to have a quadrophonic "stereo" system that I bought in the summer of 1974, before my junior year. 4 channel amp/receiver, 4 killer speakers, a quadrophonic 8-track tape deck and quad 8-track tapes! You haven't lived until you've heard the theme from Shaft in quad! The musical refrain would literally spin around the room! Ah, the memories!:cool:

-jk
12-15-2012, 09:34 PM
Hmm. Have to say the best quad recording I ever heard was Dark Side of the Moon. Truly amazing experience of being enveloped with sound. Love those helicopters flying around my head. And it was remastered as a DVD with surround support so folks with modern (aka post-8-track) systems could enjoy it.

-jk

OZZIE4DUKE
12-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Hmm. Have to say the best quad recording I ever heard was Dark Side of the Moon. Truly amazing experience of being enveloped with sound. Love those helicopters flying around my head. And it was remastered as a DVD with surround support so folks with modern (aka post-8-track) systems could enjoy it.

-jk

Hmm. I had Dark Side of the Moon in stereo but not quad. Sorry I missed it. You got me looking at my 8-track collection. I have some amazing "albums" from the 60's and 70's! I have a working (stereo) 8-track deck, but if I try to play a tape, the metal tape that holds it together (and acts as the signal to change tracks), breaks when it hits the playing head. I ruined 3 or 4 tapes before giving up playing them, and this was several years ago. :(

-jk, I guess we hijacked the thread a little bit! :eek::D

NSDukeFan
12-15-2012, 10:26 PM
Hmm. I had Dark Side of the Moon in stereo but not quad. Sorry I missed it. You got me looking at my 8-track collection. I have some amazing "albums" from the 60's and 70's! I have a working (stereo) 8-track deck, but if I try to play a tape, the metal tape that holds it together (and acts as the signal to change tracks), breaks when it hits the playing head. I ruined 3 or 4 tapes before giving up playing them, and this was several years ago. :(

-jk, I guess we hijacked the thread a little bit! :eek::D

At least some of your posts were semi-related.

devildeac
12-15-2012, 11:30 PM
At least some of your posts were semi-related.

On a semi-serious note, I just finished listening to Speak to Me/Breathe and welcomed Semi Ojeleye to Duke.;)

Newton_14
12-17-2012, 09:37 AM
So getting back on topic, this kid scores a ton of points in High School (58 the other night). Is this mostly due to a D1 prospect playing against inferior competition? Does Semi have a chance to be an impact player as a freshman?

I unfortunately do not know a whole lot about him. Thanks in advance...

COYS
12-17-2012, 09:38 AM
So getting back on topic, this kid scores a ton of points in High School (58 the other night). Is this mostly due to a D1 prospect playing against inferior competition? Does Semi have a chance to be an impact player as a freshman?

I unfortunately do not know a whole lot about him. Thanks in advance...

On the other hand, not every DI prospect scores 58 even against inferior competition. Therefore, it's good that he's showing his superiority against inferior opponents.

Newton_14
12-17-2012, 09:45 AM
On the other hand, not every DI prospect scores 58 even against inferior competition. Therefore, it's good that he's showing his superiority against inferior opponents.

Yeah, it definately makes you stand up and take notice. I am coming back from the dead from one of the many stomach virus' going around, so forgive me if my brain is still fuzzy, but I believe the article stated he averaged 33 per game last season. No matter the competition, it still takes skill to score that amount of points. Impressive.

BD80
12-17-2012, 10:51 AM
... he averaged 33 per game last season. No matter the competition, it still takes skill to score that amount of points. ...

And stamina! Sounds like he could be a starter at Duke and average 40+ mpg ;)

sagegrouse
12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
And stamina! Sounds like he could be a starter at Duke and average 40+ mpg ;)

With apologies to Dan Jenkins, that's 'cuz he's "Semi Tough."

sage

CDu
12-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Yeah, it definately makes you stand up and take notice. I am coming back from the dead from one of the many stomach virus' going around, so forgive me if my brain is still fuzzy, but I believe the article stated he averaged 33 per game last season. No matter the competition, it still takes skill to score that amount of points. Impressive.

Yeah, although we did have a walk-on several years back (Mark Causey) that averaged over 30ppg in a high school season. So the scoring average alone isn't necessarily worth much. It just depends on opportunity (can't be on a really good, balanced, team) and opponents (it helps to play against vastly inferior competition). But the skills, athleticism, and size do make him interesting, especially if he gains an inch or two and can play some PF.

gumbomoop
12-17-2012, 02:02 PM
... the skills, athleticism, and size do make him interesting, especially if he gains an inch or two and can play some PF.

I saw Semi on tv once; solid build. I was more impressed with the times he got to the basket than with his outside shot. If Jabari Parker chooses another university, I'd think either Alex or Semi, possibly both, would get a chance to play some 4 next season.

And I'll repeat a point I made previously: with or without Parker, Duke will surely play a lot of minutes in 2013-'14 with a PG, a C, and 3 guys we'd normally think of as wings. One of those wings will guard the opposing 4 [or maybe the other team's 4 who's also really a wing.....]. And actually, in these situations, what with all the switching, all Duke's wings will sometimes be guarding the opposing 4.

Further, as Marshall cannot play 40 mpg, Duke will, with or without Parker, play plenty of minutes with a PG, 3 wings, and a 4 [Amile, Josh]. For that matter, to give a "worst case scenario," Duke might play for short stretches [when Marshall is on the bench conducting interviews for Comedy Central] with a PG and 4 wings [say, Sulaimon/Dawkins, Hood, Murphy, and Parker/Ojeleye]. We might even see 5 wings on the floor at the same time. Anyhow, next season, Duke will almost always be slightly "undersized" at one spot, and for maybe 15 mpg undersized at both the 4 and 5.

K will have to be a little creative, for the roster will be rather different from recent years, maybe even going back awhile. Still, whatever D-"short"comings Duke will have to work around, its long wings will, in turn, cause major D-headaches for opponents.

Kedsy
12-17-2012, 02:15 PM
Anyhow, next season, Duke will almost always be slightly "undersized" at one spot, and for maybe 15 mpg undersized at both the 4 and 5.

While this is true, at the same time we'll have good size at the 2 and 3, possibly really good size, if Rodney plays SG and Alex or Amile or Semi or Jabari play SF. And if those guys play with Rasheed at PG for a few minutes, wow, we'll be big on the perimeter. If the opposing perimeter players can't see over their defenders to make post passes, it makes the fact that our PF (maybe sometimes both our PF and C) are a little small for their position a lot less important.

dukelifer
12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
I saw Semi on tv once; solid build. I was more impressed with the times he got to the basket than with his outside shot. If Jabari Parker chooses another university, I'd think either Alex or Semi, possibly both, would get a chance to play some 4 next season.

And I'll repeat a point I made previously: with or without Parker, Duke will surely play a lot of minutes in 2013-'14 with a PG, a C, and 3 guys we'd normally think of as wings. One of those wings will guard the opposing 4 [or maybe the other team's 4 who's also really a wing.....]. And actually, in these situations, what with all the switching, all Duke's wings will sometimes be guarding the opposing 4.

Further, as Marshall cannot play 40 mpg, Duke will, with or without Parker, play plenty of minutes with a PG, 3 wings, and a 4 [Amile, Josh]. For that matter, to give a "worst case scenario," Duke might play for short stretches [when Marshall is on the bench conducting interviews for Comedy Central] with a PG and 4 wings [say, Sulaimon/Dawkins, Hood, Murphy, and Parker/Ojeleye]. We might even see 5 wings on the floor at the same time. Anyhow, next season, Duke will almost always be slightly "undersized" at one spot, and for maybe 15 mpg undersized at both the 4 and 5.

K will have to be a little creative, for the roster will be rather different from recent years, maybe even going back awhile. Still, whatever D-"short"comings Duke will have to work around, its long wings will, in turn, cause major D-headaches for opponents.

Of course- you never know in these days of college bball what may happen with coaches leaving and players transferring. But you are likely correct that Duke will be undersized at times. That said- they will be very versatile with players who can score from anywhere on the floor. Very few college teams are perfect- but if Wiggins goes to KY- they will a juggernaut next season.

Jderf
12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
And I'll repeat a point I made previously: with or without Parker, Duke will surely play a lot of minutes in 2013-'14 with a PG, a C, and 3 guys we'd normally think of as wings. One of those wings will guard the opposing 4 [or maybe the other team's 4 who's also really a wing.....]. And actually, in these situations, what with all the switching, all Duke's wings will sometimes be guarding the opposing 4.

Further, as Marshall cannot play 40 mpg, Duke will, with or without Parker, play plenty of minutes with a PG, 3 wings, and a 4 [Amile, Josh]. For that matter, to give a "worst case scenario," Duke might play for short stretches [when Marshall is on the bench conducting interviews for Comedy Central] with a PG and 4 wings [say, Sulaimon/Dawkins, Hood, Murphy, and Parker/Ojeleye]. We might even see 5 wings on the floor at the same time. Anyhow, next season, Duke will almost always be slightly "undersized" at one spot, and for maybe 15 mpg undersized at both the 4 and 5.

K will have to be a little creative, for the roster will be rather different from recent years, maybe even going back awhile. Still, whatever D-"short"comings Duke will have to work around, its long wings will, in turn, cause major D-headaches for opponents.

Sounds an awful lot like the Heat. Or, to bring it a little closer to home, like last summer's Olympic team.

gumbomoop
12-17-2012, 02:54 PM
While this is true [ - here Kedsy generously, if admittedly vaguely, praises every single post of mine, since 1927 - ], at the same time we'll have good size at the 2 and 3, possibly really good size, if Rodney plays SG and Alex or Amile or Semi or Jabari play SF. And if those guys play with Rasheed at PG for a few minutes, wow, we'll be big on the perimeter. If the opposing perimeter players can't see over their defenders to make post passes, it makes the fact that our PF (maybe sometimes both our PF and C) are a little small for their position a lot less important.

I agree with your friendly amendment/and/or/kindly corrective. I had posted a similar point on the 2013 recruiting thread:


Duke will often "go small" next season in a way quite different from 3-guard. It will at times, for significant minutes, play "big" at the 2 and 3, but "small" at the 4 and 5.

Your ref to Rasheed at PG is what I was thinking about when I mentioned that we might even see 5 wings on the floor at the same time. Obviously this depends on calling a bunch of guys "wings." But we probably should do so, if for no other reason than that we can have several threads next season on K's new game-and-recruiting strategy of relying solely on wings.

Jones and Okafor, btw, are both wings [or at least "wings"]. Pinson, too, of course.

roywhite
12-17-2012, 03:03 PM
I agree with your friendly amendment/and/or/kindly corrective. I had posted a similar point on the 2013 recruiting thread:



Your ref to Rasheed at PG is what I was thinking about when I mentioned that we might even see 5 wings on the floor at the same time. Obviously this depends on calling a bunch of guys "wings." But we probably should do so, if for no other reason than that we can have several threads next season on K's new game-and-recruiting strategy of relying solely on wings.

Jones and Okafor, btw, are both wings [or at least "wings"]. Pinson, too, of course.

Love the wing thing, and count me in for the thrilling threads.

Already thinking about some attempts at humor --- "Coach K's Wing Special" "Happy Hour at Club Cameron featuring Wings"
Well, I've got some time to work on the material. :)

devildeac
12-17-2012, 04:08 PM
Love the wing thing, and count me in for the thrilling threads.

Already thinking about some attempts at humor --- "Coach K's Wing Special" "Happy Hour at Club Cameron featuring Wings"
Well, I've got some time to work on the material. :)

And, if they are shooting well, we could refer to them as the "Hot Wings." :rolleyes:

BD80
12-17-2012, 06:00 PM
Love the wing thing, and count me in for the thrilling threads. ...

What do call a dog with wings? Linda McCartney.

What do you call a coach with wings? Olympic Gold medal winner - national champion (yet again?)

goblue
12-17-2012, 06:52 PM
Came across some nice photos of Semi this weekend. Thought I'd share with fellow Dukies. Enjoy! http://www.catchitkansas.com/photos/cik-semi-ojeleye-duke-recruit-ottawa-high-school-gallery-20121216,0,3723842.photogallery

licc85
12-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Anyhow, next season, Duke will almost always be slightly "undersized" at one spot, and for maybe 15 mpg undersized at both the 4 and 5.

Probably true, but I don't think it's going to be a problem at all. For one thing, who in the entire country is going to have a dominant big man next year? Zeller, Noel, and Len are all likely pros after this year. Do we really NEED 2 NBA sized big guys?

Second thing, we don't necessarily have "size" at the 4 spot THIS year. Ryan's 6-11 but he plays small for the most part . . . other than the fact that he's leading us in blocks this year, he hasn't been what I would call a good post defender and he's been rather mediocre on the boards, which is as much due to his perimeter style as his lack of aptitude for rebounding. Jabari Parker, who would likely be our starter at PF next year if he comes to Duke, is actually a very good rebounder and shot blocker. And I'm assuming that he brings even more on offense than Ryan does, so, really, if we get Jabari, I think we basically improve as far as "size" is concerned. If we don't get Jabari, I'm guessing we're going to probably go with Amile or Alex at the 4, which is fine. I think Amile should probably be able to pack on a few more pounds this offseason and become a more than serviceable PF.

Bottom line is, I don't see us having an issue with size at all. I don't see any need to go with Semi at the 4, as he's a prototypical 3 man in the Duke system, with Kyle Singler type potential as a rebounder and perimeter shooter. (Though he's likely to get those rebounds due to his outstanding athleticism as opposed to Singler's size)

Kedsy
12-17-2012, 10:38 PM
Bottom line is, I don't see us having an issue with size at all. I don't see any need to go with Semi at the 4, as he's a prototypical 3 man in the Duke system, with Kyle Singler type potential as a rebounder and perimeter shooter. (Though he's likely to get those rebounds due to his outstanding athleticism as opposed to Singler's size)

It's not a matter of having a size issue. The reason Semi might get some run at the 4 is there are almost certainly going to be more minutes up for grabs at the 4 than at the 3. Even with Jabari, Josh will be our only "natural" PF, perhaps Amile as well, but we'll have nine guys whose best position is the wing (Jabari, Alex, probably Amile, Rodney, Rasheed, Andre, Matt, Semi, and Tyler). It would stand to reason that whoever can play PF (Jabari, Alex, Amile, Semi) will get minutes there, so the others who can play SF but not PF can also get their court time. If Jabari doesn't come to Duke, the PF minutes should be entirely up for grabs, and Semi would in that case battle Alex, Amile, and Josh for the minutes. If Jabari does come to Duke and starts at PF, then minutes for everyone are going to be quite competitive, and Semi will get his minutes wherever he can earn them, which is as likely to be at PF as anywhere else.

Newton_14
12-17-2012, 11:04 PM
It's not a matter of having a size issue. The reason Semi might get some run at the 4 is there are almost certainly going to be more minutes up for grabs at the 4 than at the 3. Even with Jabari, Josh will be our only "natural" PF, perhaps Amile as well, but we'll have nine guys whose best position is the wing (Jabari, Alex, probably Amile, Rodney, Rasheed, Andre, Matt, Semi, and Tyler). It would stand to reason that whoever can play PF (Jabari, Alex, Amile, Semi) will get minutes there, so the others who can play SF but not PF can also get their court time. If Jabari doesn't come to Duke, the PF minutes should be entirely up for grabs, and Semi would in that case battle Alex, Amile, and Josh for the minutes. If Jabari does come to Duke and starts at PF, then minutes for everyone are going to be quite competitive, and Semi will get his minutes wherever he can earn them, which is as likely to be at PF as anywhere else.

I think by next year, Amile will have enough weight & strength to play his natural position of PF. To me, that will be his best college position. With Rasheed, Rodney, Andre, Tyler, Alex, and Matt, (dang that's a lot!) as wings, I think K will have Amile and Semi, as bigs working with MP3 and Josh. Jabari will be the wildcard splitting his time in practice between both groups.
:D
I like Amile as a 4, as I think he can be a great post scorer from that spot, and use his length to become a good shotblocker. He does need weight and strength, but to me it is just a matter of how quickly he gains it.

Either way, next year is going to be one of the more interesting years in a long time due to the odd makeup of the roster.

licc85
12-17-2012, 11:09 PM
It's not a matter of having a size issue. The reason Semi might get some run at the 4 is there are almost certainly going to be more minutes up for grabs at the 4 than at the 3. Even with Jabari, Josh will be our only "natural" PF, perhaps Amile as well, but we'll have nine guys whose best position is the wing (Jabari, Alex, probably Amile, Rodney, Rasheed, Andre, Matt, Semi, and Tyler). It would stand to reason that whoever can play PF (Jabari, Alex, Amile, Semi) will get minutes there, so the others who can play SF but not PF can also get their court time. If Jabari doesn't come to Duke, the PF minutes should be entirely up for grabs, and Semi would in that case battle Alex, Amile, and Josh for the minutes. If Jabari does come to Duke and starts at PF, then minutes for everyone are going to be quite competitive, and Semi will get his minutes wherever he can earn them, which is as likely to be at PF as anywhere else.

Well, ok, your point is well taken, but it's not like there aren't 5 spots out there on the court, somebody is going to have to play center and point guard when Marshall and Quinn are resting. In fact, Josh is probably the backup center and probably won't play much PF at all. Here's how I see this breaking down, at each "position" with the guys in the front getting more minutes at that spot:

C: Marshall, Josh, Amile, Jabari
PF: Jabari, Amile, Alex, Josh, Semi
SF: Rodney, Andre, Alex, Semi, Jabari, Matt
SG: Rasheed, Andre, Tyler, Matt, Semi, Rodney
PG: Quinn, Tyler, Rasheed

Pretty versatile roster we have here. Only 2 guys who are probably only going to play 1 position (Quinn and Marshall) Clearly, he have the mother of all logjams on the wings. There's so many guys who can play SF/SG that I just don't see Rodney getting minutes in the backcourt. He's so quick and skilled that it would almost be a waste to use him as a guard. He's a potential matchup nightmare for opposing 3s. Therefore, I see him starting and playing almost all of his minutes as the SF.

Wow, when I look at it like that, Alex is not going to get many more minutes than he is this year. It's unfortunate, and I hope he can gut it out, but man, we just have way too many talented guys who can play SF. I see Andre as our 6th man next year, and Tyler is going to get significant run as well as our 7th guy. Unless they can REALLY prove they deserve big minutes, Semi, Matt, and Alex are just kind of going to be the odd men out as far as playing time. Although if Jabari decides to go elsewhere, it would free up a TON of playing time for those guys.

Kedsy
12-17-2012, 11:32 PM
Pretty versatile roster we have here. Only 2 guys who are probably only going to play 1 position (Quinn and Marshall) Clearly, he have the mother of all logjams on the wings. There's so many guys who can play SF/SG that I just don't see Rodney getting minutes in the backcourt. He's so quick and skilled that it would almost be a waste to use him as a guard. He's a potential matchup nightmare for opposing 3s. Therefore, I see him starting and playing almost all of his minutes as the SF.

At 6'8" and "quick and skilled" as you put it, Rodney would probably be a much worse matchup nightmare for opposing 2s. Who's going to shoot over him? Who's going to keep him from getting whatever shot he wants?


Wow, when I look at it like that, Alex is not going to get many more minutes than he is this year. It's unfortunate, and I hope he can gut it out, but man, we just have way too many talented guys who can play SF. I see Andre as our 6th man next year, and Tyler is going to get significant run as well as our 7th guy. Unless they can REALLY prove they deserve big minutes, Semi, Matt, and Alex are just kind of going to be the odd men out as far as playing time. Although if Jabari decides to go elsewhere, it would free up a TON of playing time for those guys.

I think it's too far out to be making these judgments now. If Jabari chooses Duke, we'll have 12 guys who all deserve rotation minutes. Some won't get those minutes, obviously, but there's no way to tell who. Marshall will almost certainly start, being our only player taller than 6'8. Jabari, Rodney, Quinn, and Rasheed are all potential All-conference. Andre's a great shooter and has shown he can be a big time player. Assuming he's past his issues, he could be a great one, but for all we know right now, he might not even play. Alex has height, motor, and skills and will be in his third year in the Duke system. Amile will hopefully have gained the weight and strength needed to be a big contributor. Tyler and Josh will be seniors. The recent great performances at the high school level from Matt and Semi would seem to underscore that any of these guys could seize an opportunity and run with it. Twelve outstanding players (if we're lucky enough to get Jabari). We'll just have to see how things shake out.

Kedsy
12-17-2012, 11:38 PM
I think by next year, Amile will have enough weight & strength to play his natural position of PF. To me, that will be his best college position.

I agree and assume Amile will get most if not all of his minutes at PF. In different circumstances, however, he'd be an intriguing college SF, since he seems to have the quickness to stay with most SFs, and more length than almost any SF he'd encounter. His outside shooting would have to improve if he wanted to see the majority of his minutes on the wing, but as it stands (as you point out) it probably won't matter.

Greg_Newton
12-18-2012, 03:22 AM
I wonder how a team of

PG - Thornton, SR
SG - Jones, FR
SF - Murphy, RS-SO
PF - Jefferson, SO
C - Hairston, SR

...with Ojeleye off the bench would finish in the ACC?

Practices are going to be awesome, whether Jabari comes or not.

licc85
12-18-2012, 03:58 AM
I wonder how a team of

PG - Thornton, SR
SG - Jones, FR
SF - Murphy, RS-SO
PF - Jefferson, SO
C - Hairston, SR

...with Ojeleye off the bench would finish in the ACC?

Practices are going to be awesome, whether Jabari comes or not.

Probably like 4-14 . . . which is actually pretty good, all things considered. Depends on what their schedule looks like, but I'm giving them 3 games vs Duke/UNC which are probably blowout losses. More losses against Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, NC State, Miami, Notre Dame, and probably Va Tech. They would probably have some competitive games vs. bottom feeders like BC, Wake, and Ga Tech, but should be able to win against teams with such a dearth of talent. Defense would be an issue for that squad, since it's pretty undersized with a 6-7 center and stick figure for a power forward. It would also have some trouble finding consistent scoring (Jones would probably be the best scorer on that team), but I believe in the talent of Jones, Murphy, and Jefferson enough to believe that they could pull out a few wins. Also depends on who's coaching. But the fact that our bench players could possibly win any games at all says a lot about our depth next year.

COYS
12-18-2012, 12:35 PM
I agree and assume Amile will get most if not all of his minutes at PF. In different circumstances, however, he'd be an intriguing college SF, since he seems to have the quickness to stay with most SFs, and more length than almost any SF he'd encounter. His outside shooting would have to improve if he wanted to see the majority of his minutes on the wing, but as it stands (as you point out) it probably won't matter.

While it would be nice to see his outside shot improve, I think that with the lineup versatility we'll have next year, it would be easy to have him play inside on offense and on the perimeter on defense. This might make his length even more of an asset. He has an uncanny knack for scoring close to the basket (or at least he has shown this ability in limited doses so far). In many situations, he might be matched up with the opposing team's small forward, which would mean that Amile can take his defender inside on offense. Meanwhile, Alex (in his limited minutes) seems to prefer to hang out on the perimeter and either slash to the basket or shoot threes (although his shot hasn't looked good in a very small sample size). If the opposition's 4 is matched up on Alex, that will help clear out driving lanes, as well.

Meanwhile, on defense, Amile's length can be used to match up with the oppositions biggest perimeter player while Alex, with more size, defends in the post. The same scenario would apply to Jabari if we are fortunate enough to have him on the roster next year. After watching Jabari do battle with Matt Jones' team, I was surprised just how big Jabari actually is. The announcers even said that he was trying to lose weight while getting back into playing shape, which might indicate that Jabari has a significantly bigger build than Amile or possibly even Alex. Even as a freshman, Jabari might prove to be a very good option in the post on defense.

CDu
12-18-2012, 01:15 PM
While it would be nice to see his outside shot improve, I think that with the lineup versatility we'll have next year, it would be easy to have him play inside on offense and on the perimeter on defense. This might make his length even more of an asset. He has an uncanny knack for scoring close to the basket (or at least he has shown this ability in limited doses so far). In many situations, he might be matched up with the opposing team's small forward, which would mean that Amile can take his defender inside on offense. Meanwhile, Alex (in his limited minutes) seems to prefer to hang out on the perimeter and either slash to the basket or shoot threes (although his shot hasn't looked good in a very small sample size). If the opposition's 4 is matched up on Alex, that will help clear out driving lanes, as well.

But in that scenario, why wouldn't the other team just switch the matchup? If Murphy and Jefferson are on the floor together, I'd expect the opposition to put their SF on Murphy and their PF on Jefferson. Now, we could create mismatches with screens and such, but I'd expect the primary assignments to be SF on Murphy, PF on Jefferson.

Indoor66
12-18-2012, 07:32 PM
But in that scenario, why wouldn't the other team just switch the matchup? If Murphy and Jefferson are on the floor together, I'd expect the opposition to put their SF on Murphy and their PF on Jefferson. Now, we could create mismatches with screens and such, but I'd expect the primary assignments to be SF on Murphy, PF on Jefferson.

But Marshall will be setting screens, won't he? :confused:

Saratoga2
12-18-2012, 07:43 PM
At 6'8" and "quick and skilled" as you put it, Rodney would probably be a much worse matchup nightmare for opposing 2s. Who's going to shoot over him? Who's going to keep him from getting whatever shot he wants?



I think it's too far out to be making these judgments now. If Jabari chooses Duke, we'll have 12 guys who all deserve rotation minutes. Some won't get those minutes, obviously, but there's no way to tell who. Marshall will almost certainly start, being our only player taller than 6'8. Jabari, Rodney, Quinn, and Rasheed are all potential All-conference. Andre's a great shooter and has shown he can be a big time player. Assuming he's past his issues, he could be a great one, but for all we know right now, he might not even play. Alex has height, motor, and skills and will be in his third year in the Duke system. Amile will hopefully have gained the weight and strength needed to be a big contributor. Tyler and Josh will be seniors. The recent great performances at the high school level from Matt and Semi would seem to underscore that any of these guys could seize an opportunity and run with it. Twelve outstanding players (if we're lucky enough to get Jabari). We'll just have to see how things shake out.

We only have a couple of days before we will know about Jabari. Then the conversation will seem more real. All of the conversation also presupposes that coach K will not be able to come up with another bluebird big man. I think that Amile will put on weight and add strength and is most likely to be our best PF option.

English
12-18-2012, 10:56 PM
I wonder how a team of

PG - Thornton, SR
SG - Jones, FR
SF - Murphy, RS-SO
PF - Jefferson, SO
C - Hairston, SR

...with Ojeleye off the bench would finish in the ACC?

Practices are going to be awesome, whether Jabari comes or not.

This was the same argument I heard last year from a UNC buddy of mine early last year. Turns out that same UNC second team was ranked #9 preseason this season. Not turning out great for them either.

OldPhiKap
12-18-2012, 11:02 PM
This was the same argument I heard last year from a UNC buddy of mine early last year. Turns out that same UNC second team was ranked #9 preseason this season. Not turning out great for them either.

Too early to write off the Heels, but this is a very valid point. Of course, this assumes that Cook and Rasheed and Marshall are gone or not starting -- I am pretty far from any of that presently.

El_Diablo
12-19-2012, 09:03 AM
Too early to write off the Heels, but this is a very valid point. Of course, this assumes that Cook and Rasheed and Marshall are gone or not starting -- I am pretty far from any of that presently.

I think the point is that all three would be starting (along with Hood and hopefully Parker) and that our bench (as depicted above) could be a pretty competitive ACC team in its own right.

UrinalCake
12-19-2012, 09:24 AM
This was the same argument I heard last year from a UNC buddy of mine early last year. Turns out that same UNC second team was ranked #9 preseason this season. Not turning out great for them either.

Perhaps, though I think our hypothetical 2013-2014 second team has more talent and especially much more experience than the 2011-2012 UNC second team did. The only deeper team I can think of was our 1998-1999 team, which had eight guys average double figure minutes and a ninth just barely miss the cut.

licc85
01-07-2013, 03:40 AM
http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/maxwire-national-blog/0ub7va3qgkmwBEuEX3youA/duke--university-recruit-semi-ojeleye-has-57-point-game.htm

I'm beginning to think we may have found a diamond in the rough. It's tough to downplay that kind of scoring prowess. 57 against Paolo (Kan.)and 58 against Wray (Colo.). Not entirely sure what kind of competition this is against, but 50+ points in multiple games is impressive no matter how you look at it. Is there really no way this guy gets some significant run next year? Matt Jones looks really good too. Man, there's just waaaayyy too many mouths to feed next year. Also, the writer of the article says Semi is 6'8", but I've always seen him listed at 6'6". Writer's error, or is he still growing?

Can't wait to see this guy become a Blue Devil.

OldPhiKap
01-07-2013, 07:15 AM
http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/maxwire-national-blog/0ub7va3qgkmwBEuEX3youA/duke--university-recruit-semi-ojeleye-has-57-point-game.htm

I'm beginning to think we may have found a diamond in the rough. It's tough to downplay that kind of scoring prowess. 57 against Paolo (Kan.)and 58 against Wray (Colo.). Not entirely sure what kind of competition this is against, but 50+ points in multiple games is impressive no matter how you look at it. Is there really no way this guy gets some significant run next year? Matt Jones looks really good too. Man, there's just waaaayyy too many mouths to feed next year. Also, the writer of the article says Semi is 6'8", but I've always seen him listed at 6'6". Writer's error, or is he still growing?

Can't wait to see this guy become a Blue Devil.

Semi's team won those games by 43 and 73 points, respectively. If a team only scores 29 points, and Semi himself scored double that, it may give an indication of the talent level of the competition.

There is no doubt that Semi will have an adjustment curve, but he seems to have the game needed to seriously ball. I think we need to be patient, and then be pleasantly surprised if he adjusts quicker than those who have been in similar circumstances (Carlos Boozer comes to mind).

COYS
01-07-2013, 01:07 PM
Semi's team won those games by 43 and 73 points, respectively. If a team only scores 29 points, and Semi himself scored double that, it may give an indication of the talent level of the competition.

There is no doubt that Semi will have an adjustment curve, but he seems to have the game needed to seriously ball. I think we need to be patient, and then be pleasantly surprised if he adjusts quicker than those who have been in similar circumstances (Carlos Boozer comes to mind).

This seems to be the consensus regarding Semi. Perhaps we will get a chance to see him in some of the all star games this spring. I know those games don't give us much in the way of seeing how someone is going to be able to defend and score within the team concept, but it does give us a chance to see how he looks when playing against elite athletes.

The good news is, I doubt the team will be in bad shape if it does take him a while to adjust. With Jabari and Rodney joining Alex, Amile, and Rasheed as options on the wing plus the possible return of Andre, Duke will have plenty of depth next year to let Semi adjust to playing against the top athletes at the collegiate level. The year after, when Andre will definitely be gone and there is a very real chance that any or all of Rodney, Jabari and Rasheed could leave for the NBA, hopefully semi will have made adjustments and will be ready to start contributing.

roywhite
01-07-2013, 01:16 PM
This seems to be the consensus regarding Semi. Perhaps we will get a chance to see him in some of the all star games this spring. I know those games don't give us much in the way of seeing how someone is going to be able to defend and score within the team concept, but it does give us a chance to see how he looks when playing against elite athletes.

The good news is, I doubt the team will be in bad shape if it does take him a while to adjust. With Jabari and Rodney joining Alex, Amile, and Rasheed as options on the wing plus the possible return of Andre, Duke will have plenty of depth next year to let Semi adjust to playing against the top athletes at the collegiate level. The year after, when Andre will definitely be gone and there is a very real chance that any or all of Rodney, Jabari and Rasheed could leave for the NBA, hopefully semi will have made adjustments and will be ready to start contributing.

It will be interesting to see Semi in post-season competition like the Mc-D All-America game and others. No sure thing that he makes the McDonald's team as his national ranking is probably outside the top 24 at this point, but being a Duke (or UNC) recruit seems to help in selection for this game. If not the Mc-D game, he'll very likely participcate in one or two others.

Not that these all-star games are great indicators, or even well-played, but his selection would give Semi an opportunity to practice and play against very talented kids.

It's really hard to tell how prepared Semi will be to play next year, but he's got the size, shooting ability, and attitude to be a factor IMO, if not next year, then in his sophomore year and beyond.

gwlaw99
01-09-2013, 05:53 PM
Scored 57 last night (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/09/duke-signee-semi-ojeleye-scores-57-points-in-high-school-game/). 1 off his season high.

roywhite
01-14-2013, 10:01 AM
Our pal Adam Rowe has apparently heard from Semi's dad that Semi now measures 6'8".
(this from a post on TDD, which makes this about 3rd hand info, but Adam is solid).

Semi plus Jabari plus Matt Jones....this class is sounding better all the time.

Lord Ash
01-14-2013, 10:18 AM
Love Semi's skill set, body, and most importantly his attitude, both on the court and off. However, given the relative lack of competition in his day-to-day basketball, I am not sure yet if he will be a contributor next year... Duke is a tough place to earn significant minutes as a freshmen, both because of the competition and because of the level of execution the coaching staff requires, but I know he will be a great contributor at Duke over his career.

jipops
01-14-2013, 10:31 AM
Love Semi's skill set, body, and most importantly his attitude, both on the court and off. However, given the relative lack of competition in his day-to-day basketball, I am not sure yet if he will be a contributor next year... Duke is a tough place to earn significant minutes as a freshmen, both because of the competition and because of the level of execution the coaching staff requires, but I know he will be a great contributor at Duke over his career.

Totally with you on this. I'm hoping his huge numbers aren't giving us unrealistic expectations for a freshman next year. There will also be 5 other guys on the team of roughly the same size though not necessarily the same skill set.

Kedsy
01-14-2013, 11:15 AM
Love Semi's skill set, body, and most importantly his attitude, both on the court and off. However, given the relative lack of competition in his day-to-day basketball, I am not sure yet if he will be a contributor next year... Duke is a tough place to earn significant minutes as a freshmen, both because of the competition and because of the level of execution the coaching staff requires, but I know he will be a great contributor at Duke over his career.

I agree with this, with one caveat. While it's true in 2012-13 we should have 12 guys on our roster who would all appear deserving of rotation minutes and only 7 or 8 will probably get those minutes, it's also true that the shallowest part of our roster will be our bigs. If Semi is really 6'8, with a strong, developed body (as he appears to have in pictures), it's possible he could earn his way into the mix to back up C and PF for us next season.

Dev11
01-14-2013, 11:26 AM
Quick trivia I just realized: our three commits for this class (I realize this should go in the 2013 Recruiting Thread but this is the more active thread right now) all hail from the Central Time Zone. Anybody remember the last time we had an entire recruiting class from outside the Eastern time zone? Back to 2002 (as far as Scout has it) there aren't any, unless you count 2003 when Deng was the only commit and he's really from England, but went to high school in New Jersey.

CDu
01-14-2013, 11:34 AM
I agree with this, with one caveat. While it's true in 2012-13 we should have 12 guys on our roster who would all appear deserving of rotation minutes and only 7 or 8 will probably get those minutes, it's also true that the shallowest part of our roster will be our bigs. If Semi is really 6'8, with a strong, developed body (as he appears to have in pictures), it's possible he could earn his way into the mix to back up C and PF for us next season.

Yeah, with Sulaimon, Hood, Murphy (as a third-year sophomore), Parker, and Jefferson (not to mention the possible-though-questionable return of Dawkins) I'd be pretty surprised if Ojeleye sees any minutes at the SF or PF spot next year. But if he's really 6'8", and given how well-built he is, he could possibly compete with Hairston and Marshall for minutes at C.

Assuming Cook and Sulaimon return, C is the one spot that I am concerned about with next year's team. Marshall hasn't shown much of anything yet, and Hairston hasn't shown anything to suggest he's capable of playing major minutes at C. We're going to be stacked at the PG through PF spots, but I don't feel comfortable with any of those guys playing C. So if Ojeleye is indeed 6'8", that adds one more option to compete for minutes at our weakest position. And it would reduce some of the concerns about the quality of his competition (because you don't need as much ball-handling/shooting skill to play C).

CDu
01-14-2013, 11:36 AM
Quick trivia I just realized: our three commits for this class (I realize this should go in the 2013 Recruiting Thread but this is the more active thread right now) all hail from the Central Time Zone. Anybody remember the last time we had an entire recruiting class from outside the Eastern time zone? Back to 2002 (as far as Scout has it) there aren't any, unless you count 2003 when Deng was the only commit and he's really from England, but went to high school in New Jersey.

2000 (the year Chris Duhon was our only recruit) was the last time it happened. 1998 (Corey Maggette) also qualifies.

-bdbd
01-14-2013, 11:37 AM
This would be a terrific development for a Duke squad sure to be thin up front next year. Semi is supposedly long-armed, and very strong/athletic, and many were penciling him into a PF position, even at 6'6".

I would think our most likely starting front-line to START the year would be: 5- MP3 (with Josh as back-up, though AJ could hopefully develop over summer); 4- Parker (with AJ the likely b/u) and then 3-Hood (with Murphy as primary b/u). Certainly not a line-up cast in stone.

But if Semi is a true 6'8" and that athletic/long-armed, then he's adding depth to our two shallowest positions next year, and certainly would have the potential for significant minutes.

Still focused on this season, but am also excited what next year has for us too...

jipops
01-14-2013, 11:42 AM
If Semi is really 6'8, with a strong, developed body (as he appears to have in pictures), it's possible he could earn his way into the mix to back up C and PF for us next season.

Certainly possible. But even if he is a true 6'8" by then, a lot depends on what kind of impact he is capable of making defensively. Though I have little basis for this presumption, I'm banking on his impact coming his sophomore year or after. But this in no way lessens my excitement for him becoming a part of the program. If his 6-8 size is truly there with his apparent strength, we could be looking at a future dynamic and productive front court player.

johnb
01-14-2013, 11:49 AM
There is certainly a tendency to pencil in a Plumlee as a starter, but he'll have to earn it. If he doesn't, I can certainly see a starting lineup of Cook, Rasheed, Rodney, and Jabari along with any of our 6'8" guys. It'd be smaller than the front lines of a handful of the teams we'll play, but I don't think there's a team that would be overly optimistic of coming out with a W against that cluster of future professionals.

CDu
01-14-2013, 12:11 PM
There is certainly a tendency to pencil in a Plumlee as a starter, but he'll have to earn it. If he doesn't, I can certainly see a starting lineup of Cook, Rasheed, Rodney, and Jabari along with any of our 6'8" guys. It'd be smaller than the front lines of a handful of the teams we'll play, but I don't think there's a team that would be overly optimistic of coming out with a W against that cluster of future professionals.

Yeah, there's certainly precedent for us not going with a traditional center when our only traditional center wasn't ready (Singler's freshman year, when Zoubek wasn't ready to contribute major minutes). It's very possible that this could happen again next year as it remains to be seen whether Marshall will be ready for major minutes next year.

The good news is that we certainly won't have a shortage of tall, athletic, talented wing players to play the 2, 3, and 4 spots. So we may be able to offset some of our center size deficiencies elsewhere. And if Marshall IS ready, then all the better.

licc85
01-15-2013, 04:28 AM
Yeah, with Sulaimon, Hood, Murphy (as a third-year sophomore), Parker, and Jefferson (not to mention the possible-though-questionable return of Dawkins) I'd be pretty surprised if Ojeleye sees any minutes at the SF or PF spot next year. But if he's really 6'8", and given how well-built he is, he could possibly compete with Hairston and Marshall for minutes at C.

Assuming Cook and Sulaimon return, C is the one spot that I am concerned about with next year's team. Marshall hasn't shown much of anything yet, and Hairston hasn't shown anything to suggest he's capable of playing major minutes at C. We're going to be stacked at the PG through PF spots, but I don't feel comfortable with any of those guys playing C. So if Ojeleye is indeed 6'8", that adds one more option to compete for minutes at our weakest position. And it would reduce some of the concerns about the quality of his competition (because you don't need as much ball-handling/shooting skill to play C).

What's with that? This guy is very skilled and is actually a GREAT outside shooter. He's not Matt Jones or JJ, but he looks at least as good as Kyle Singler from deep, even with defenders in his face.

devildeac
01-15-2013, 08:33 AM
Our pal Adam Rowe has apparently heard from Semi's dad that Semi now measures 6'8".
(this from a post on TDD, which makes this about 3rd hand info, but Adam is solid).

Semi plus Jabari plus Matt Jones....this class is sounding better all the time.

Well, if he picks up a little from the Dunleavy family growth chart, he might be 6'10" (or taller!) next year;).

CDu
01-15-2013, 08:36 AM
What's with that? This guy is very skilled and is actually a GREAT outside shooter. He's not Matt Jones or JJ, but he looks at least as good as Kyle Singler from deep, even with defenders in his face.

Ojeleye has shown great skills against VASTLY inferior competition. It remains to be seen whether that skill level will translate against quality competition at the college level. There are countless guys that looked like worldbeaters against high school scrubs whose skill level wasn't actually good enough to compete at the college level. Hence my statement; I don't know how well his skills will translate (maybe they will). But they'll translate much better if he can play PF and/or C, because the level of ballhandling/shooting skill needed to play those positions is less than on the perimeter.

And I don't know how you can say confidently that he looks "at least as good as Kyle Singler from deep" based on what I suspect to be only his highlight tapes (against, as mentioned previously, vastly inferior competition). I'm sure one could put together a high school mix tape for Singler shooting that would be unbelievable.

COYS
01-15-2013, 09:57 AM
Ojeleye has shown great skills against VASTLY inferior competition. It remains to be seen whether that skill level will translate against quality competition at the college level. There are countless guys that looked like worldbeaters against high school scrubs whose skill level wasn't actually good enough to compete at the college level. Hence my statement; I don't know how well his skills will translate (maybe they will). But they'll translate much better if he can play PF and/or C, because the level of ballhandling/shooting skill needed to play those positions is less than on the perimeter.

And I don't know how you can say confidently that he looks "at least as good as Kyle Singler from deep" based on what I suspect to be only his highlight tapes (against, as mentioned previously, vastly inferior competition). I'm sure one could put together a high school mix tape for Singler shooting that would be unbelievable.

I think your first paragraph is spot on. Semi's strengths are reported to be his athleticism, rebounding ability, and shooting ability. Agility and shooting ability are often difficult skills for opposing PF's and C's to defend against, as they are not used to defending on the perimeter and will frequently be less agile. As for the last paragraph, while comparing Semi to a college player in terms of shooting ability does seem misplaced, he is (reported) to have very good form and range. While his overall scoring ability is inflated by playing against inferior competition, raw shooting ability often translates pretty well. Assuming the reports continue to praise his shooting, I would bank on his shooting ability being the offensive skill that translates to the college level the best while the rest of his offensive game takes a while to adapt.

jipops
01-15-2013, 10:07 AM
I think your first paragraph is spot on. Semi's strengths are reported to be his athleticism, rebounding ability, and shooting ability. Agility and shooting ability are often difficult skills for opposing PF's and C's to defend against, as they are not used to defending on the perimeter and will frequently be less agile. As for the last paragraph, while comparing Semi to a college player in terms of shooting ability does seem misplaced, he is (reported) to have very good form and range. While his overall scoring ability is inflated by playing against inferior competition, raw shooting ability often translates pretty well. Assuming the reports continue to praise his shooting, I would bank on his shooting ability being the offensive skill that translates to the college level the best while the rest of his offensive game takes a while to adapt.

Raw shooting ability doesn't always translate if you're accustomed to very little ball pressure and need a lot of time to release the ball. I don't think we should really bank on anything in regards to Semi's game until he puts in substantial burn in a Duke uni. He could be a stronger version of Robert Brickey or he could be another Tony Moore. We just don't know. The kid is ranked 41st in his class for a reason so there is probably a good bit in his game to work on. We've done this so many times in the past, build a player up to be something before he gets to campus, and then come to find out he doesn't meet those expectations immediately. The prospect is enticing, I will say that.

CDu
01-15-2013, 10:13 AM
As for the last paragraph, while comparing Semi to a college player in terms of shooting ability does seem misplaced, he is (reported) to have very good form and range. While his overall scoring ability is inflated by playing against inferior competition, raw shooting ability often translates pretty well. Assuming the reports continue to praise his shooting, I would bank on his shooting ability being the offensive skill that translates to the college level the best while the rest of his offensive game takes a while to adapt.

As jipops has noted, I don't completely agree. Chris Duhon, for example, never seemed to miss 3s when he was playing pickup games. I remember seeing him hit like 15 in a row. The quality of defense (and size of defenders) was just so much lower in pickup games that he wasn't phased by it. If you don't have a competent defender challenging your shot, it's much easier to make it.

I have no doubt that Ojeleye will be able to shoot uncontested 3s in practice/warmups just as well at Duke as he does in high school. But the question is whether that shooting ability will translate when facing much bigger, stronger, more athletic perimeter defenders at the college level. Conversely, if he's being guarded by PF or C, his athleticism should allow him more open shots, as bigs aren't really comfortable defending away from the basket.

COYS
01-15-2013, 10:43 AM
As jipops has noted, I don't completely agree. Chris Duhon, for example, never seemed to miss 3s when he was playing pickup games. I remember seeing him hit like 15 in a row. The quality of defense (and size of defenders) was just so much lower in pickup games that he wasn't phased by it. If you don't have a competent defender challenging your shot, it's much easier to make it.

I have no doubt that Ojeleye will be able to shoot uncontested 3s in practice/warmups just as well at Duke as he does in high school. But the question is whether that shooting ability will translate when facing much bigger, stronger, more athletic perimeter defenders at the college level. Conversely, if he's being guarded by PF or C, his athleticism should allow him more open shots, as bigs aren't really comfortable defending away from the basket.

I certainly agree with your reservations. However, my post was intended to mean that shooting ability (if indeed he continues to garner praise as a very good shooter) is probably the easiest offensive skill to translate to the college game. This is not meant to imply that he will be JJ Redick when he sets foot on campus. Nor does it mean that he will be able to use this skill effectively to a lesser degree the moment he sets foot on campus. However, we have seen numerous players who struggle in other aspects of the game make an impact with their shooting first before developing other skills. Andre and Taylor King both struggled with ball handling, defense, positioning on offense, and other things, but they had some big games right away with their shooting ability. Ryan Kelly didn't play much his first year, but made an impact his second year on the offense largely by virtue of his ability to hit jumpers while he continued to adjust the rest of his offensive repertoire to the college game. JJ Redick, obviously, made a huge impact on the 2003 team largely with his shooting ability.

I'm not saying that Semi is just as good a shooter as JJ, Andre, or Taylor King (it remains to be seen if he continues to get the rep as a marksman). However, I do think that if shooting is one of Semi's best offensive weapons, it is likely that it will be his shooting that makes an impact on the offensive end first while the other parts of his game develop. Maybe he'll step in right away and bury lots of threes as a freshman in the early season as Taylor King and Andre did. More likely, he won't see much playing time his freshman year but will develop in a way more similar to Ryan. Either way, I would be willing to bet that if he continues to gain the rep as lights-out shooter and that the reports are true, it is his shooting ability that will translate to his getting points in college first while other aspects of his game (driving, slashing, etcetera) follow behind.

I will concede that there are players like Duhon who have the rep of a good shooter but never quite display that ability with consistency in games. It's obviously possible that Semi will not prove to be a good shooter at all. But at the moment, from the reports, it seems like this is his best skill and, in my opinion, the one that usually translates the easiest to the collegiate level (even if he still has to wait to sophomore or junior year to shine).

tommy
01-15-2013, 10:53 AM
I certainly agree with your reservations. However, my post was intended to mean that shooting ability (if indeed he continues to garner praise as a very good shooter) is probably the easiest offensive skill to translate to the college game. This is not meant to imply that he will be JJ Redick when he sets foot on campus. Nor does it mean that he will be able to use this skill effectively to a lesser degree the moment he sets foot on campus. However, we have seen numerous players who struggle in other aspects of the game make an impact with their shooting first before developing other skills. Andre and Taylor King both struggled with ball handling, defense, positioning on offense, and other things, but they had some big games right away with their shooting ability. Ryan Kelly didn't play much his first year, but made an impact his second year on the offense largely by virtue of his ability to hit jumpers while he continued to adjust the rest of his offensive repertoire to the college game. JJ Redick, obviously, made a huge impact on the 2003 team largely with his shooting ability.

I'm not saying that Semi is just as good a shooter as JJ, Andre, or Taylor King (it remains to be seen if he continues to get the rep as a marksman). However, I do think that if shooting is one of Semi's best offensive weapons, it is likely that it will be his shooting that makes an impact on the offensive end first while the other parts of his game develop. Maybe he'll step in right away and bury lots of threes as a freshman in the early season as Taylor King and Andre did. More likely, he won't see much playing time his freshman year but will develop in a way more similar to Ryan. Either way, I would be willing to bet that if he continues to gain the rep as lights-out shooter and that the reports are true, it is his shooting ability that will translate to his getting points in college first while other aspects of his game (driving, slashing, etcetera) follow behind.

I will concede that there are players like Duhon who have the rep of a good shooter but never quite display that ability with consistency in games. It's obviously possible that Semi will not prove to be a good shooter at all. But at the moment, from the reports, it seems like this is his best skill and, in my opinion, the one that usually translates the easiest to the collegiate level (even if he still has to wait to sophomore or junior year to shine).

The player believed by many to be the best shooter in the class of 2013 is Matt Jones. If anyone is going to come in and gain any kind of a rep as a "marksman" as a freshman, I suspect it will be Matt, not Semi.

Kedsy
01-15-2013, 11:08 AM
The player believed by many to be the best shooter in the class of 2013 is Matt Jones. If anyone is going to come in and gain any kind of a rep as a "marksman" as a freshman, I suspect it will be Matt, not Semi.

Why not both? Although neither of them might be as good a shooter as Andre. How about the three of them on the floor together, with Quinn and Jabari, maybe -- there's a lineup that could score in bunches. Although, of course, they'd probably give up points in bunches, too...

Ultimately, next year is going to be very interesting to see how Coach K manages the rotation. I know it never works out that way, but we seem to have way too much talent on the 2012-13 roster to play a 7-man rotation. Especially since the guys a lot of people around here would ID as the ones who should sit will be the seniors.

roywhite
01-15-2013, 11:09 AM
The player believed by many to be the best shooter in the class of 2013 is Matt Jones. If anyone is going to come in and gain any kind of a rep as a "marksman" as a freshman, I suspect it will be Matt, not Semi.

Or perhaps Rodney Hood, if we include him in the Class of 2013. And I hear that Jabari Parker guy can shoot the three, also.

It's a fun question to think about, just which of these talented newcomers next year will have the best of various skills. Looks like a good group.

wk2109
01-15-2013, 11:30 AM
The player believed by many to be the best shooter in the class of 2013 is Matt Jones. If anyone is going to come in and gain any kind of a rep as a "marksman" as a freshman, I suspect it will be Matt, not Semi.

Barring early entry/transfer of any current non-seniors and assuming Andre does play next year (meaning there'd be 12 scholarship players on the roster), does anyone think either Matt or Semi might redshirt?

Cases for/against Semi redshirting:
For
-the college game might be too fast for him as a freshman
-if he's projected to play on the wing, there might be a bunch of wings ahead of him on the depth chart
-even if he could play the 4-5, presumably Josh, Amile, Marshall, and Jabari would play in those spots ahead of him
Against
-his body is probably physically ready for the college game (he looks pretty jacked)
-if he really is 6'8", and perhaps still growing, he could play the 4 (or perhaps the 5 in a pinch) on a team that might need frontcourt depth
-if he is as good a shooter as he's shown in HS (43-for-97 from three-point range this year according to this link (http://www.basehorinfo.com/news/2013/jan/14/devil-you-say-ottawa-standout-semi-ojeleye-says-du/)), the team might need his outside shooting


Cases for/against Matt redshirting:
For
-the college game might be too fast for him as a freshman (I believe this is more likely for Semi than for Matt)
-there might be a bunch of wings ahead of him on the depth chart
-unlike Semi, he might need a little more strength/conditioning training
Against
-with Seth and Ryan leaving, the team could probably use his outside shooting
-he could be Rasheed 2.0 and who wouldn't want that on the floor

CDu
01-15-2013, 11:30 AM
Ultimately, next year is going to be very interesting to see how Coach K manages the rotation. I know it never works out that way, but we seem to have way too much talent on the 2012-13 roster to play a 7-man rotation. Especially since the guys a lot of people around here would ID as the ones who should sit will be the seniors.

Yeah, we've been down this road before (but perhaps not to this extent). This team was supposed to be so deep as to put pressure on Coach K to play a shorter rotation. Well, that hasn't turned out to be the case, as Coach K has stuck to his short rotation right out of the gate. But we've had numerous McDonald's All-Americans sit the bench when we thought we'd be deep.

I suspect Coach K will probably stick to his philosophy. He'll play the guys who he thinks give the team the best chance to win each game the vast majority of the minutes. Maybe it'll take a bit of time to figure out who those guys are, but I'd expect the rotation to fairly quickly whittle down. And that means that either multiple highly-recruited players will be sitting, or multiple seniors will be sitting.

-jk
01-15-2013, 12:23 PM
Yeah, we've been down this road before (but perhaps not to this extent). This team was supposed to be so deep as to put pressure on Coach K to play a shorter rotation. Well, that hasn't turned out to be the case, as Coach K has stuck to his short rotation right out of the gate. But we've had numerous McDonald's All-Americans sit the bench when we thought we'd be deep.

I suspect Coach K will probably stick to his philosophy. He'll play the guys who he thinks give the team the best chance to win each game the vast majority of the minutes. Maybe it'll take a bit of time to figure out who those guys are, but I'd expect the rotation to fairly quickly whittle down. And that means that either multiple highly-recruited players will be sitting, or multiple seniors will be sitting.

I've said this before: It's not the talent. It's the separation in the talent. K wants to win, and will play down his bench until he thinks there's too much gap in talent. When the starting five are fabulous, he won't play deep. If the 6,7,8th guys are almost fabulous, they'll play. If they aren't quite almost as fabulous, they'll sit. Josh won't get all of Kelly's minutes; the other guys on the bench are similarly talented.

-jk

CDu
01-15-2013, 12:57 PM
I've said this before: It's not the talent. It's the separation in the talent. K wants to win, and will play down his bench until he thinks there's too much gap in talent. When the starting five are fabulous, he won't play deep. If the 6,7,8th guys are almost fabulous, they'll play. If they aren't quite almost as fabulous, they'll sit. Josh won't get all of Kelly's minutes; the other guys on the bench are similarly talented.

-jk

Right, but there's almost never a situation in which there isn't a substantial dropoff from the top guys to the second team. I can't think of any examples, in fact. 1997-1998 might be the best example. And even then, Coach K whittled the bench minutes down considerably.

Next year's team will have lots of talented players. But I will be quite surprised if there isn't some significant separation in the talent among those players. And as such, I'll expect that the rotation will again be shorter than many on this board (I'm ambivalent on the issue personally) would like.

BD80
01-15-2013, 01:06 PM
... I'll expect that the rotation will again be shorter than many on this board (I'm ambivalent on the issue personally) would like.

That would be true even if the cheerleaders were playing the entire second half ...

I too am amphibious on the issue

COYS
01-15-2013, 01:13 PM
The player believed by many to be the best shooter in the class of 2013 is Matt Jones. If anyone is going to come in and gain any kind of a rep as a "marksman" as a freshman, I suspect it will be Matt, not Semi.

He doesn't have to be the best shooter in the class to be good at it and make his mark. I think people are misconstruing what I'm trying to say. Basically, I'm saying that shooting is often a skill that translates well. Semi seems like he might be a very good shooter based on reports from high school. I would not be surprised if in Semi's development, we see him start to display his shooting ability before he starts to show his skills in other areas, if indeed he is slightly behind in ball handling and other areas due to his lack of reps against top competition. This doesn't have to happen freshman year.

sagegrouse
01-15-2013, 01:18 PM
I've said this before: It's not the talent. It's the separation in the talent. K wants to win, and will play down his bench until he thinks there's too much gap in talent. When the starting five are fabulous, he won't play deep. If the 6,7,8th guys are almost fabulous, they'll play. If they aren't quite almost as fabulous, they'll sit. Josh won't get all of Kelly's minutes; the other guys on the bench are similarly talented.

-jk


Right, but there's almost never a situation in which there isn't a substantial dropoff from the top guys to the second team. I can't think of any examples, in fact. 1997-1998 might be the best example. And even then, Coach K whittled the bench minutes down considerably.

Next year's team will have lots of talented players. But I will be quite surprised if there isn't some significant separation in the talent among those players. And as such, I'll expect that the rotation will again be shorter than many on this board (I'm ambivalent on the issue personally) would like.

Any new player is a "wild card," and some new players are "wild cards of wild cards." I'd put Semi in that category because he is playing in lesser competition than most Duke recruits. That's where JJ was -- the DBR and the commentariat here opined that JJ would need a year or more to adjust to the college game, because of the low-level HS competition and other factors. Instead, he was the best by far his freshman year of a very strong class, scoring almost as many points as the other five guys combined (45% of total points by freshman). Of course, K .. afterwards... said that the staff thought JJ was ahead of the other five guys coming in. Well, if you say so....

So, the excitement about next year, once we get over celebrating the results of this year's fabulous team, will be getting answers to some questions:


Who will come out strong among our bevy of large mobile forwards: Amile, Josh, Alex, Rodney Hood, Jabari, and Semi? Remember last year when we had no one in this category?

Semi?

Andre?

Will MP3 be a productive player as a sophomore, or will we tend to go with a bunch of 6-8 guys in the middle (to the weeping and wailing of many fans)?

Scoring? We will need to replace our three highest scorers (per game, at least, depending on Ryan's return). Can Matt and Rasheed make a big contribution in the backcourt?

Unexpected losses? Hmmm.... Lots of players for next year... only 200 minutes of PT per game.


sagegrouse
'Still looking to put some banners up for this year'

airowe
01-15-2013, 01:28 PM
FYI: Semi's game tonight will be live streamed. There's a link in here: http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2013/01/15/live-stream-of-semi-ojeleys-game-at-500-est-tonight/

jipops
01-15-2013, 01:49 PM
Right, but there's almost never a situation in which there isn't a substantial dropoff from the top guys to the second team. I can't think of any examples, in fact. 1997-1998 might be the best example. And even then, Coach K whittled the bench minutes down considerably.


Re: 97-98 I don't recall K whittling it down that much though I could be forgetting about the month of March. I do remember there being ACC games where 4 or 5 guys would be waiting to come in at the scorers table, and it wasn't the last 2 minutes of a blowout.


Next year's team will have lots of talented players. But I will be quite surprised if there isn't some significant separation in the talent among those players. And as such, I'll expect that the rotation will again be shorter than many on this board (I'm ambivalent on the issue personally) would like.

I don't doubt this at all. We will be pretty young and I'm betting K will want to develop a core of a team over just spreading minutes all around ('Ol Roy style). 97-98 was somewhat similarly young but there wasn't much of a drop off in bench talent (Avery, Chappell, James, Carrawell, Price) as there may be next season.

yancem
01-15-2013, 01:56 PM
Raw shooting ability doesn't always translate if you're accustomed to very little ball pressure and need a lot of time to release the ball. I don't think we should really bank on anything in regards to Semi's game until he puts in substantial burn in a Duke uni. He could be a stronger version of Robert Brickey or he could be another Tony Moore. We just don't know. The kid is ranked 41st in his class for a reason so there is probably a good bit in his game to work on. We've done this so many times in the past, build a player up to be something before he gets to campus, and then come to find out he doesn't meet those expectations immediately. The prospect is enticing, I will say that.

Of course his 41st ranking could be a factor of playing against lesser competition or maybe because he plays against lesser competition, he hasn't been viewed by the recruiting services as much as higher profile recruits. I'm not saying that you're wrong (I have no idea) just that while playing against lesser competition can make someone's stats look better than they other wise would, it can also mean that that same person flies under the radar which lowers their rank. I'm sure Tim Duncan put up great numbers against the Virgin Island competition but no one really had any idea how good he was because few people saw him play or figured his numbers didn't mean much because of his competition. BTW, by no means am I saying that Semi will be even in the same league as Duncan. I'm just making a comparison to the level of competition they faced in high school.

CDu
01-15-2013, 03:36 PM
Re: 97-98 I don't recall K whittling it down that much though I could be forgetting about the month of March. I do remember there being ACC games where 4 or 5 guys would be waiting to come in at the scorers table, and it wasn't the last 2 minutes of a blowout.

I'm afraid your memory is a bit foggy here. Brand missed 15 games, which clouds things a bit. While we had 9 guys get 10+ mpg, one of those guys (Burgess and Domzalski) only did so because Brand missed 15 games. By February, we were down to a 7+ man rotation, with no one outside the top-7 getting more than a handful of minutes each game). In the game against Kentucky, for example, we had only 7 players play more than 6 minutes (Chappell played 6 and Burgess played 3; 1,000 point scorer Ricky Price played 0). Against UNC in Cameron (best game I ever got to see in person), the distribution was roughly the same 7 guys (Chappell 3, Burgess 8 due to Brand's limitations coming back from injury, Price 3).

When we were blowing the doors off of teams earlier in the year (we won 13 of our first 18 by 20, and 12 of those were by 30+), we saw a lot more of the bench. But in close games, the rotation was the short bench like we've seen this year (Brand, McLeod, Battier/Carrawell, Langdon, Wojo, Carrawell/Battier, Avery).


I don't doubt this at all. We will be pretty young and I'm betting K will want to develop a core of a team over just spreading minutes all around ('Ol Roy style). 97-98 was somewhat similarly young but there wasn't much of a drop off in bench talent (Avery, Chappell, James, Carrawell, Price) as there may be next season.

The 1997-1998 team was kind of a unique team. We were both young and old. Wojo, Price, and Langdon were 4th year guys (Langdon a junior), McLeod was a 5th year senior, and we had the 4 main freshman. 3 of the 4 freshmen became regulars (Burgess played limited minutes except when Brand was hurt), and 3 of the 4 veterans became regulars (Price was a bit of the odd man out coming off suspension). Carrawell and Chappell flip-flopped roles a bit early on before Carrawell cemented himself in the rotation and Chappell as a fringe guy.

But yes, I agree that Coach K will figure out early on who his main guys will be and work really hard to get that main core to gel with the game minutes.

jv001
01-15-2013, 03:47 PM
I'm afraid your memory is a bit foggy here. Brand missed 15 games, which clouds things a bit. While we had 9 guys get 10+ mpg, one of those guys (Burgess and Domzalski) only did so because Brand missed 15 games. By February, we were down to a 7+ man rotation, with no one outside the top-7 getting more than a handful of minutes each game). In the game against Kentucky, for example, we had only 7 players play more than 6 minutes (Chappell played 6 and Burgess played 3; 1,000 point scorer Ricky Price played 0). Against UNC in Cameron (best game I ever got to see in person), the distribution was roughly the same 7 guys (Chappell 3, Burgess 8 due to Brand's limitations coming back from injury, Price 3).

When we were blowing the doors off of teams earlier in the year (we won 13 of our first 18 by 20, and 12 of those were by 30+), we saw a lot more of the bench. But in close games, the rotation was the short bench like we've seen this year (Brand, McLeod, Battier/Carrawell, Langdon, Wojo, Carrawell/Battier, Avery).



The 1997-1998 team was kind of a unique team. We were both young and old. Wojo, Price, and Langdon were 4th year guys (Langdon a junior), McLeod was a 5th year senior, and we had the 4 main freshman. 3 of the 4 freshmen became regulars (Burgess played limited minutes except when Brand was hurt), and 3 of the 4 veterans became regulars (Price was a bit of the odd man out coming off suspension). Carrawell and Chappell flip-flopped roles a bit early on before Carrawell cemented himself in the rotation and Chappell as a fringe guy.

But yes, I agree that Coach K will figure out early on who his main guys will be and work really hard to get that main core to gel with the game minutes.

We will be loaded with good wing players next year, but from all reports, Hood and Parker will probably be Duke players for only one year. If that's the case, I hope Coach K uses the bench more. Looks like a very good pressing team to me and that should open up minutes for more players. But who knows, "ole mose knows". GoDuke!

CDu
01-15-2013, 03:59 PM
We will be loaded with good wing players next year, but from all reports, Hood and Parker will probably be Duke players for only one year. If that's the case, I hope Coach K uses the bench more. Looks like a very good pressing team to me and that should open up minutes for more players. But who knows, "ole mose knows". GoDuke!

While I agree that would be nice, I've seen nothing from Coach K to suggest he will consider future seasons when making playing time decisions. He instead focuses on preparing the team to do as well as possible that year each year. Sometimes, that comes at the expense of playing time for our younger guys.

I mean, we have to look no further than this season for an example of this. We'll have a glaring hole at C next year. But Coach K is focused on making this team the best it can be, so he's playing Mason a TON of minutes (because Mason is awesome). As such, Marshall isn't getting many minutes.

jipops
01-15-2013, 05:28 PM
I'm afraid your memory is a bit foggy here.


My wife will attest to this.

I was probably going on mostly the games I had attended that year. I do remember McCloud getting the lion's share of the minutes at center with Burgess getting very little burn. And yes, it is coming back to me now that Price's time substantially faded and Chappell was used less.

CDu
01-15-2013, 05:31 PM
My wife will attest to this.

I was probably going on mostly the games I had attended that year. I do remember McCloud getting the lion's share of the minutes at center with Burgess getting very little burn. And yes, it is coming back to me now that Price's time substantially faded and Chappell was used less.

To be fair to you, I assume you saw games at Cameron? If so, quite a few of them were blowouts (which did get us deeper into the bench). So it may not be a fading memory after all! :)

Listen to Quants
01-15-2013, 06:44 PM
Right, but there's almost never a situation in which there isn't a substantial dropoff from the top guys to the second team. I can't think of any examples, in fact. 1997-1998 might be the best example. And even then, Coach K whittled the bench minutes down considerably.

Next year's team will have lots of talented players. But I will be quite surprised if there isn't some significant separation in the talent among those players. And as such, I'll expect that the rotation will again be shorter than many on this board (I'm ambivalent on the issue personally) would like.

Difficult indeed to find a team with that sort of uniformity of talent everywhere. However, there are teams with fairly uniform talent in one area of the team (e.g., 'bigs'). 2010 seems a fair example of that in which 4 bigs got a lot of minutes . Lots or reasons to do this: fatigue, fouls, future-development. Perhaps next year K will do the same with 'wings.'

Des Esseintes
01-15-2013, 07:32 PM
2000 (the year Chris Duhon was our only recruit) was the last time it happened. 1998 (Corey Maggette) also qualifies.

Somewhere, probably New York City, Andre Sweet is weeping.

jipops
01-15-2013, 08:49 PM
To be fair to you, I assume you saw games at Cameron? If so, quite a few of them were blowouts (which did get us deeper into the bench). So it may not be a fading memory after all! :)

Yep all in Cameron, but as late as January, maybe February too. Something about Spring approaching puts me in a daze I guess.

CDu
01-15-2013, 09:05 PM
Somewhere, probably New York City, Andre Sweet is weeping.

Uggh. You're right. I forgot about his illustrious Duke career. So 1998 (Maggette) is the last time it happened.

jimsumner
01-15-2013, 09:17 PM
Ojeleye is the consensus #28 player in his class. Good chance he goes up a few spots when this finalizes in the spring. He'll have a chance to play in some high-profile all-star games this spring.

1998? Price was never part of the rotation that season. He was academically ineligible for the first semester and never really regained K's trust. Domzalski and Chappell had horrible games in that infamous 97-73 loss at Chapel Hill and lost not only their starting spots but also the confidence of their coach. Chappell transferred following the season.

Duke had two one-player classes in the 2000s, Dan Ewing in the high-school class of 2001 and Luol Deng in 2003. McNeely ('80) and Maggette ('98) are K's only others and McNeely is a special case.

Krzyzewski tends to compress to a seven-player rotation late in the season. Not always. But the trend lines are there.

licc85
01-15-2013, 09:36 PM
Any new player is a "wild card," and some new players are "wild cards of wild cards." I'd put Semi in that category because he is playing in lesser competition than most Duke recruits. That's where JJ was -- the DBR and the commentariat here opined that JJ would need a year or more to adjust to the college game, because of the low-level HS competition and other factors. Instead, he was the best by far his freshman year of a very strong class, scoring almost as many points as the other five guys combined (45% of total points by freshman). Of course, K .. afterwards... said that the staff thought JJ was ahead of the other five guys coming in. Well, if you say so....

So, the excitement about next year, once we get over celebrating the results of this year's fabulous team, will be getting answers to some questions:


Who will come out strong among our bevy of large mobile forwards: Amile, Alex, Rodney Hood, Jabari, Semi; and large, not mobile forward: Josh Remember last year when we had no one in this category?

Semi?

Andre?

Will MP3 be a productive player as a sophomore, or will we tend to go with a bunch of 6-8 guys in the middle (to the weeping and wailing of many fans)?

Scoring? We will need to replace our three highest scorers (per game, at least, depending on Ryan's return). Can Matt and Rasheed make a big contribution in the backcourt?

Unexpected losses? Hmmm.... Lots of players for next year... only 200 minutes of PT per game.


sagegrouse
'Still looking to put some banners up for this year'

I fixed that part at the top for you (lol sorry, had to get that dig in :P)

But in all seriousness, I expect Jabari and Rodney to pick up a good chunk of the lost scoring. Quinn will likely increase his scoring and distributing output even more, and be in the conversation for the top PG in the nation. I think he's that good. Rasheed seems likely to score somewhere between 12-15 points a game and reprise his role as the defensive stopper on the perimeter. So, I expect all four of those guys to average double figures in scoring, and our offense should not take a significant dip, if at all.

Honestly, I think Marshall will be ready to contribute. There's no reason he can't average at least 9 boards and a block in 25-ish minutes per game. By next year, he will be a junior in terms of amount of time in the system. Both Miles and Mason were pretty big contributors by their 3rd year, and by all accounts, Marshall has more potential than Miles, so I fully expect him to be ready to play the bulk of the team's minutes at the center position. He's big, tough, athletic, and when he's on the court, he puts on a mean face. I like him. A lot. However, I'm willing to hold out on the hope that Amile can somehow gain about 10-15 pounds and start at center. He certainly has the length to do it, he just needs bulk.

My best guess is: first 4 guys off the bench will be Tyler, Amile, Josh, Alex, in that order. I see Amile and/or Alex making enough strides to pass Josh on the depth chart, and make big contributions. The only unanswered question is, does Andre come back? If so, he's the first guy off the bench for sure, but he also completely changes everything in the rotation. If Andre is back, he's going to likely get starter's minutes, even if eh's coming off the bench. Nobody in the starting 5 has his kind of stroke from deep, and he will be a key factor in spacing the floor. If not, I'm hoping Rodney is as good a shooter as advertised, and Rasheed really improves his shooting in the offseason enough to become a really significant threat from outside.

I don't see Matt or Semi getting significant minutes next year. The 2 seniors are surely going to get time on the floor before them, and our starting 5 (regardless of who it is) will be too strong for Coach K to get those guys in the rotation outside of garbage time. If Andre does indeed come back, it's going to be really hard to get minutes for one of the wings coming off the bench (Alex/Amile), and I hope whoever gets left out of the rotation is willing to be patient and wait for his chance. They are all good guys, and I would hate to lose any of them to transfer.

So, if Andre does NOT come back, I expect it to be an 8 man rotation with a depth chart looking something like this:

C: Marshall, Josh
PF: Jabari, Amile
SF: Rodney, (Jabari)
SG: Rasheed, Tyler
PG: Quinn, (Tyler)

In any case, it's going to be a ridiculous team with more talent than anyone not name Kentucky, and should be preseason #1 by a wide margin.

Li_Duke
01-16-2013, 10:39 AM
C: Marshall, Josh
PF: Jabari, Amile
SF: Rodney, (Jabari)
SG: Rasheed, Tyler
PG: Quinn, (Tyler)
In any case, it's going to be a ridiculous team with more talent than anyone not name Kentucky, and should be preseason #1 by a wide margin.


Next year's team feels a lot like the 08-09 team (Gerald, Kyle, Jon, Nolan, Lance, Greg Paulus, Elliott Williams, David McClure, and Zoubek). One true PG going in, similar level of talent/potential at SG-PF, and one raw center. That team was very good, but not "preseason #1 by a wide margin" good. Similarly I think we'll be very good next year, but I think we have a better shot of winning it all this year (provided Kelly comes back healthy).

CDu
01-16-2013, 11:43 AM
Next year's team feels a lot like the 08-09 team (Gerald, Kyle, Jon, Nolan, Lance, Greg Paulus, Elliott Williams, David McClure, and Zoubek). One true PG going in, similar level of talent/potential at SG-PF, and one raw center. That team was very good, but not "preseason #1 by a wide margin" good. Similarly I think we'll be very good next year, but I think we have a better shot of winning it all this year (provided Kelly comes back healthy).

There are certainly similarities. I agree with you that at SG, SF, and PF, we are similarly strong. Sulaimon, Hood, and Parker probably compare with Scheyer, Henderson, and Singler, and next year's squad should have much better talent coming off the bench at those spots (Jefferson, Murphy, and Jones are better than a freshman Williams and McClure).

But I think we have substantial advantages over the 2009 team at PG and C:
- Cook as a junior will be better than Paulus as an injured and struggling senior at PG
- a third-year (and healthy) Marshall should be a big upgrade over junior-year Zoubek (still struggling with injuries), and a senior-year Hairston and sophomore Jefferson may be better than a junior-year Thomas

Being better at PG and C are two key areas that would set us apart from the 2009 team (which was still a pretty good team, even with its flaws).

JNort
01-16-2013, 11:51 AM
There are certainly similarities. I agree with you that at SG, SF, and PF, we are similarly strong. Sulaimon, Hood, and Parker probably compare with Scheyer, Henderson, and Singler, and next year's squad should have much better talent coming off the bench at those spots (Jefferson, Murphy, and Jones are better than a freshman Williams and McClure).

But I think we have substantial advantages over the 2009 team at PG and C:
- Cook as a junior will be better than Paulus as an injured and struggling senior at PG
- a third-year (and healthy) Marshall should be a big upgrade over junior-year Zoubek (still struggling with injuries), and a senior-year Hairston and sophomore Jefferson may be better than a junior-year Thomas

Being better at PG and C are two key areas that would set us apart from the 2009 team (which was still a pretty good team, even with its flaws).

Not to mention we are a bit more athletic next year compared to 08-09. Sheed vs Jon and Parker vs Kyle. Now I won't say Hood is more athletic but he is not lacking it, just that Henderson is probably top 5 all time at Duke in that department.

CDu
01-16-2013, 11:55 AM
Not to mention we are a bit more athletic next year compared to 08-09. Sheed vs Jon and Parker vs Kyle. Now I won't say Hood is more athletic but he is not lacking it, just that Henderson is probably top 5 all time at Duke in that department.

We are definitely more athletic at C (Marshall vs Zoubek) and PG (Cook vs Paulus/Scheyer). Sulaimon is more athletic than Scheyer, though not more athletic than Williams. And Thornton is less athletic than Smith off the bench. And I don't know that Parker is more athletic than Singler. Parker is very skilled and lanky, but is not considered a freak athlete. I'd say the two are pretty comparable in athleticism.

And I don't think anyone is more athletic than Henderson.

On aggregate, we're probably more athletic than that 2008 team, thanks to the edges at PG and C.

Kedsy
01-16-2013, 11:56 AM
Next year's team feels a lot like the 08-09 team (Gerald, Kyle, Jon, Nolan, Lance, Greg Paulus, Elliott Williams, David McClure, and Zoubek). One true PG going in, similar level of talent/potential at SG-PF, and one raw center. That team was very good, but not "preseason #1 by a wide margin" good. Similarly I think we'll be very good next year, but I think we have a better shot of winning it all this year (provided Kelly comes back healthy).

I disagree with your comparison. That team did not have a "true PG." By 2008-09, Greg Paulus was coming off two so-so seasons (both with around 3 apg and mediocre a/to ratios) and had shown himself to be much more of a sweet-shooting combo guard with defensive issues. And while that team did have talent on the wing, you have to realize that Jon and Nolan weren't nearly the players we remember from later seasons -- Nolan was coming off a freshman year in which he played fewer than 15 mpg and had not yet shown whether he could play at a high level. Jabari Parker's high school bona fides are worlds better than Elliot Williams's -- there's a huge difference between the #2 player and the #15 player in your class. Rodney Hood, as the SEC freshman of the year in his only season, probably is more accomplished than Kyle or Gerald or anybody on that 2008-09 team.

Ultimately I don't think there is a "similar level of talent/potential" between the two teams at SG-PF, and I don't think it's particularly close.

The projected starting five of next year's team appears much better:

junior Quinn, sophomore Rasheed, sophomore Rodney, freshman Jabari (#2 RSCI), and sophomore Marshall
vs.
senior Greg, junior Jon, junior Gerald, sophomore Kyle, and junior Lance

The projected top reserves for next year's team would appear at least a wash:

senior Tyler, senior Andre, sophomore Amile, and senior Josh
vs.
sophomore Nolan, freshman Elliot (#15 RSCI), junior Brian Z, and senior Dave M

And the projected deep reserves would appear way better for next year's team:

sophomore Alex, freshman Matt (#20 RSCI), freshman Semi (#28 RSCI)
vs.
freshman Miles (#81 RSCI), freshman Olek (#66 RSCI), senior Marty P


Plus, next year's team appears much better balanced, with more offensive options, better overall shooting, and better defense. As you say, the 2008-09 team was good -- it was ranked #8 in pre-season and #6 in the final (pre-NCAAT) poll. But barring injuries next year's team should be in the top 3 most of the season.

jimsumner
01-16-2013, 01:12 PM
. Rodney Hood, as the SEC freshman of the year in his only season, probably is more accomplished than Kyle or Gerald or anybody on that 2008-09 team.



Rodney Hood did make the SEC All-Freshman team. But last season's consensus national player of the year was an SEC freshman. So, I think you're inflating Hood's resume just a tad.

Kedsy
01-16-2013, 01:24 PM
Rodney Hood did make the SEC All-Freshman team. But last season's consensus national player of the year was an SEC freshman. So, I think you're inflating Hood's resume just a tad.

Good point. Kentucky's freshmen were on such a higher plane I forgot they were in the SEC. My bad.

CDu
01-16-2013, 01:24 PM
Rodney Hood did make the SEC All-Freshman team. But last season's consensus national player of the year was an SEC freshman. So, I think you're inflating Hood's resume just a tad.

Yeah, I mean Singler had already won an All-ACC honor going into the 2009 season, and Henderson was first-team all-acc in 2009. So I think it's optimistic to say with any confidence that Hood is better than either of those guys. Not necessarily wrong, just very optimistic.

sagegrouse
01-16-2013, 01:41 PM
Rodney Hood, as the SEC freshman of the year in his only season, probably is more accomplished than Kyle or Gerald or anybody on that 2008-09 team.

.

Rodney Hood more accomplished than Kyle Singler, or otherwise better? Channelling John Wooden in response to dismissive statements about Bill Walton vs. Lew Alcindor, "You may be right, but don't you be too sure about it."

Fact is, Kyle Singler was and is a warrior, and one of the best Blue Devil players ever. Nonetheless, I would be happy to see Rodney lead us to a National Championship in the next two seasons.

sagegrouse

Kedsy
01-16-2013, 01:48 PM
Rodney Hood more accomplished than Kyle Singler, or otherwise better? Channelling John Wooden in response to dismissive statements about Bill Walton vs. Lew Alcindor, "You may be right, but don't you be too sure about it."

Fact is, Kyle Singler was and is a warrior, and one of the best Blue Devil players ever. Nonetheless, I would be happy to see Rodney lead us to a National Championship in the next two seasons.

sagegrouse

I meant Kyle Singler as a rising sophomore. Obviously Kyle by the time he was done was one of the most accomplished players in Duke history. As a rising sophomore he was a promising player who had a good freshman year playing out of position (and I think good but not great -- 13 ppg, fewer than 6 rpg as a center).


EDIT: All right, I just looked up Rodney Hood's stats as a freshman at Mississippi State, and they're not as good as I thought they were. I'll admit he wasn't more accomplished than Kyle, even as a rising sophomore. About even with Gerald.

JNort
01-16-2013, 02:18 PM
We are definitely more athletic at C (Marshall vs Zoubek) and PG (Cook vs Paulus/Scheyer). Sulaimon is more athletic than Scheyer, though not more athletic than Williams. And Thornton is less athletic than Smith off the bench. And I don't know that Parker is more athletic than Singler. Parker is very skilled and lanky, but is not considered a freak athlete. I'd say the two are pretty comparable in athleticism.

And I don't think anyone is more athletic than Henderson.

On aggregate, we're probably more athletic than that 2008 team, thanks to the edges at PG and C.

Agree on the Henderson comment but disagree with Parker and Kyle. Kyle only had a 30 inch vertical while I don't know what Parker's actually is his style of play and athleticism has been favorably compared to that of Paul Pierce (38 inches). Also looking at Kyle's high school videos he doesn't dunk very much, usually lay ins. Where as Parker dunks fairly easily and from standing position under the basket gets up much better. Don't know much about the speed or agility cause you can't tell how fast or slow the competition is so I won't bother

jimsumner
01-16-2013, 02:25 PM
Gerald Henderson, 2009.

16. 5 ppg
4.9 rpg
2.5 apg
0.8 bpg
1.2 spg

1st-team All-ACC
3rd team AP All-America
12th pick in NBA draft


I'd take that from Rodney Hood.

Kedsy
01-16-2013, 02:32 PM
Gerald Henderson, 2009.

16. 5 ppg
4.9 rpg
2.5 apg
0.8 bpg
1.2 spg

1st-team All-ACC
3rd team AP All-America
12th pick in NBA draft


I'd take that from Rodney Hood.

So would I, but we were talking about coming in to the 2008-09 season, and Gerald hadn't done any of those things yet.

I'm not saying Rodney Hood will do all that (although as a good-shooting 6'8" guard my guess is he'll be a lottery pick when he comes out), I'm merely suggesting that his accomplishments to date are about the same as Gerald's were at this moment in 2008.

CDu
01-16-2013, 02:39 PM
Agree on the Henderson comment but disagree with Parker and Kyle. Kyle only had a 30 inch vertical while I don't know what Parker's actually is his style of play and athleticism has been favorably compared to that of Paul Pierce (38 inches). Also looking at Kyle's high school videos he doesn't dunk very much, usually lay ins. Where as Parker dunks fairly easily and from standing position under the basket gets up much better. Don't know much about the speed or agility cause you can't tell how fast or slow the competition is so I won't bother

I don't think I've heard Parker compared favorably athletically to Paul Pierce. I've heard that his game is reminiscent of Paul Pierce's game. And Paul Pierce's game (at least for the past 10 years) has not been an athlete's game - it's been a skill game.

JNort
01-16-2013, 02:40 PM
So would I, but we were talking about coming in to the 2008-09 season, and Gerald hadn't done any of those things yet.

I'm not saying Rodney Hood will do all that (although as a good-shooting 6'8" guard my guess is he'll be a lottery pick when he comes out), I'm merely suggesting that his accomplishments to date are about the same as Gerald's were at this moment in 2008.

Their shooting %'s are very similar as well. Rodney appears to be the better rebounder but he is also taller

CDu
01-16-2013, 02:44 PM
I meant Kyle Singler as a rising sophomore. Obviously Kyle by the time he was done was one of the most accomplished players in Duke history. As a rising sophomore he was a promising player who had a good freshman year playing out of position (and I think good but not great -- 13 ppg, fewer than 6 rpg as a center).


EDIT: All right, I just looked up Rodney Hood's stats as a freshman at Mississippi State, and they're not as good as I thought they were. I'll admit he wasn't more accomplished than Kyle, even as a rising sophomore. About even with Gerald.

I think "about even with Henderson" is a perfect description of Hood's freshman year versus Henderson's sophomore year. Hood's a better shooter and ballhandler, while Henderson was the better finisher at the basket.

Now, Hood has had a year to develop since then, so it's possible that he's made HUGE improvements in his game since then. But we know that Henderson made huge improvements from the 2008 to 2009 seasons, so it's hard to say with confidence that Hood will be better than what Henderson brought to the table as a junior.

That said, hopefully Hood does meet that challenge.

COYS
01-16-2013, 02:48 PM
I think "about even with Henderson" is a perfect description of Hood's freshman year versus Henderson's sophomore year. Hood's a better shooter and ballhandler, while Henderson was the better finisher at the basket.

Now, Hood has had a year to develop since then, so it's possible that he's made HUGE improvements in his game since then. But we know that Henderson made huge improvements from the 2008 to 2009 seasons, so it's hard to say with confidence that Hood will be better than what Henderson brought to the table as a junior.

That said, hopefully Hood does meet that challenge.

Henderson also battled a wrist injury for half of his sophomore campaign which certainly made it harder for him to put up better numbers. It definitely hampered his game, that coast to coast layup against Belmont notwithstanding.

jimsumner
01-16-2013, 03:00 PM
Gerald Henderson averaged 12.7 points and 4.7 rebounds in his last college season prior to his 2009 season. He shot 47.4 from the field, 66.9 from the line, 31.7 on 3s, 56 assists, 68 turnovers, 31 blocks, 39 steals.

Rodney Hood averaged 10.3 points and 4.8 rebounds in his last college season prior to the 2014 season. He shot 44.3 from the field, 65.9 from the line, 36.4 on 3s, 64 assists, 30 turnovers, 14 blocks, 13 steals.

Hood had a significantly better a/to ratio. Henderson was roughly his equal or superior in every other measurable.

I expect Hood to be good next season, real good, probably All-ACC good. But assuming that the 2014 Rodney Hood will be better than the 2009 Gerald Henderson is a big assumption.

Gerald Henderson was pretty darn good in 2009.

CDu
01-16-2013, 03:09 PM
Gerald Henderson averaged 12.7 points and 4.7 rebounds in his last college season prior to his 2009 season. He shot 47.4 from the field, 66.9 from the line, 31.7 on 3s, 56 assists, 68 turnovers, 31 blocks, 39 steals.

Rodney Hood averaged 10.3 points and 4.8 rebounds in his last college season prior to the 2014 season. He shot 44.3 from the field, 65.9 from the line, 36.4 on 3s, 64 assists, 30 turnovers, 14 blocks, 13 steals.

Hood had a significantly better a/to ratio. Henderson was roughly his equal or superior in every other measurable.

I expect Hood to be good next season, real good, probably All-ACC good. But assuming that the 2014 Rodney Hood will be better than the 2009 Gerald Henderson is a big assumption.

Gerald Henderson was pretty darn good in 2009.

Could not agree more. Further, expecting a freshman Parker to be better than a sophomore Kyle Singler (16.5 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2nd Team All-ACC) is asking a lot. He might just do it, but it's asking a heck of a lot.

The only spot on the floor I can confidently say we'll be better at next year is PG. Cook is already far ahead of what Paulus was able to give us in 2009, and while Scheyer played admirably there he wasn't the playmaker (as a junior at least) that Cook is already.

Aside from that, I think we can hope for more from the C spot than Zoubek/Thomas/McClure gave in 2009. And maybe in aggregate at SG we could outdo what Scheyer/Willaims/Smith did. But at SF and PF (at least at the starting spots) it'd be asking a lot to exceed the efforts of Henderson and Singler in 2009.

But back to the point of discussion that spurred this train of thought, there are some similarities to the 2009 team (very good wing players, uncertainty at C). But the one place that we have a glaring edge over the 2009 team is at PG. Hopefully we can gain edges at other spots, but that one position may be the difference between was a solid 2009 season and what could be an elite 2014 season.

MChambers
01-16-2013, 03:16 PM
Look, next year's team almost always looks better than the current team. Tons of potential, no injuries, and all those great mixtapes of highlights from high school games.

Seriously, though, one thing the statistics don't show is the defensive capabilities of the players. I'm cautiously optimistic that next year's team will be a wonderful defensive team, give the athleticism of the players. (I don't think even Doug Gottlieb could find an unathletic player on next year's roster.) I know that defense isn't just about size, speed, and agility, but all those things help.

So I think next year's team should be better than 2009. Time will tell, of course.