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NovaScotian
08-07-2007, 03:21 PM
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1148393

this has to get some people angry, including myself.

Duvall
08-07-2007, 03:30 PM
How is this possible?

wags78
08-07-2007, 03:30 PM
I guess Feinstein didn't get a vote.

Jarhead
08-07-2007, 03:41 PM
I am not surprised, and I see no reason for his not getting extended. His record speaks for it self. Some regulars here will disagree, but that is a based on a very narrow view of his work.

SilkyJ
08-07-2007, 04:08 PM
I am not surprised, and I see no reason for his not getting extended. His record speaks for it self. Some regulars here will disagree, but that is a based on a very narrow view of his work.

You are correct his record has been great overall. Duke atheletes are succeeding in all different sports. I think we had our highest finish in the Director's Cup, so its easy to see why he got it.

I, however, want him gone based one very, very, very narrow view, which is that he betrayed the lacrosse players. He didn't believe them in the beginning and he forced their coach out, and they feel betrayed by him, and so do I.

Indoor66
08-07-2007, 04:08 PM
I am not surprised, and I see no reason for his not getting extended. His record speaks for it self. Some regulars here will disagree, but that is a based on a very narrow view of his work.

I agree with you, Jarhead. IMO Alleva has done a good job, overall. His hires have been, all in all, first rate. Our teams have performed at a high level and our future is extremely bright. Those with a lacrosse-centric view of the University Athletics will probably disagree, but, IMO, an objective view of the situation supports him being reappointed.

arnie
08-07-2007, 04:21 PM
No, NO, NO, NO, NO, No, NO, NO - I guess football, baseball, personal accountability and standing up to others when times are tough are OUT at Duke.

fuse
08-07-2007, 04:49 PM
Wish I had not seen this thread.

Count me in the anti-Alleva camp, for lots of legit reasons, but as someone already alluded to, the mishandling of the lacrosse situation is enough for me to want not just Alleva, but quite a few prominent Duke representatives dismissed from Duke service.

OZZIE4DUKE
08-07-2007, 05:03 PM
Wish I had not seen this thread.

Count me in the anti-Alleva camp, for lots of legit reasons, but as someone already alluded to, the mishandling of the lacrosse situation is enough for me to want not just Alleva, but quite a few prominent Duke representatives dismissed from Duke service.

I guess this means that Brodhead will be around for a while too :(

SmartDevil
08-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Personally, I think Duke's failures in football--and inablity to lure a coach who can get the job done--cast great doubt on whether Alleva should remain AD.

There were also elements of the lacrosse matter that were mishandled....starting with failing to oversee the otherwise talented coach's supervision of the team even after the pattern of behavioral problems became clear. (And, yes, there are isses of fairness to the players post-incident although it is easy to get carried away with thoughts of that rather than the welfare of the University in general.)

And the message about alcohol and behavior still hasn't been driven home to Duke athletes as illustrated by the events of this past weekend. I find that incredible. What will this culminate in? What kind of tragedy will it take?

And while Coach P looks like she'll prove to be quite a good choice for the women's bkb program, I'd sure like to know the whole story about proven-winner Coach G's leaving. (This assumes of course that there was a "story"--that Duke let her down in some way rather than her just needing a change of scenery for personal reasons.)

I hope the committee which reviewed Alleva was not some kind of rubber stamp group. I am assuming it was not as I think Brodhead would have slightly preferred to replace Alleva if given any support for that proposition.

accfanfrom1970
08-07-2007, 06:31 PM
Great leaders prove their mettle under fire - when under fire Alleva handled the lacrosse situation like a fool. Read "It's Not About The Truth"....follow that up with the Coach G situation, the football situation and the drinking/boating situation. Hard to say that's great leadership. But then neither was Brohead's so maybe it all fits....

YmoBeThere
08-07-2007, 07:14 PM
I am not surprised, and I see no reason for his not getting extended. His record speaks for it self. Some regulars here will disagree, but that is a based on a very narrow view of his work.

I will spare the analogies as I would be accused of using vitriolic rhetoric, but Alleva's failure to defend the lacrosse players merits his removal.

Yes, this may be a narrow view of his work but...whoops better stop there.

johnb
08-07-2007, 08:11 PM
I don't know him at all.

During Alleva's tenure, however, Duke's overall athletic program has become probably the second most eminent program in the country among mid-size private schools, and we are in the same league as Stanford--this wasn't true a decade ago.

I'm not sure what Alleva could have legitimately done in regards to lacrosse or whether he should be held responsible for the baseball steroid fiasco or for the ongoing football problems. We have debated football, for example, for a long time, and I haven't heard obvious solutions aside from sell out a new stadium, recruit 5 star players, and get Stoops to come over from Oklahoma. It seems to me that he is responsible for creating a reasonable structure and then letting the coaches do the direct work. He should get some credit for, say, the women's golf team, just as he might take some heat for us losing G to Texas. Nevertheless, it's also true that if Texas wants to offer much more for G than would be reasonable for us, then it would be administratively silly for us to try to match up with a school that simply has more resources. I have heard that he can be a jerk, that he is a K puppet, that his son is an alcoholic, and that he does not focus adequately on women's sports. Maybe, but I'm not sure that firing a point of stability a year after tumult would be the way to help us move forward.

YmoBeThere
08-07-2007, 08:22 PM
He should get some credit for, say, the women's golf team, just as he might take some heat for us losing G to Texas.

to Martha Ingram and her generosity for the success of the women's golf team than I would to Alleva.

SoCalDukeFan
08-07-2007, 08:23 PM
His last two coaching hires - women's basketball and men's golf - seem like excellent choices. Of course, coaches do not often work out they way you want but I certainly have no fault with these.

The football program has been unlucky and Ted Roof may work out just fine in the long run. However he was an easy hire. I would like to think, but doubt, that Alleva is thinking about what he do if we have another lousy season.

However the boating incident at the height of lacrosse mess would have doomed him in my book. My guess is that he merely and meekly did as he was told regarding Pressler and the players. I really do not know much about the baseball problems so can not comment.

I find it incredible that only lacrosse players seem to get punished. A lacrosse player sends an admittedly ugly but private email and he gets suspended. A student sends an email to Pressler that can be taken as a threat and he gets all kinds of awards and recognition. 88 faculty members make fools of themselves and nothing seems to happen to them. The AD goes on a drunken boat trip with his son when all eyes are on Duke and he gets rehired.

It is Durham in Wonderland.

SoCal

dukie8
08-07-2007, 09:44 PM
You are correct his record has been great overall. Duke atheletes are succeeding in all different sports. I think we had our highest finish in the Director's Cup, so its easy to see why he got it.

I, however, want him gone based one very, very, very narrow view, which is that he betrayed the lacrosse players. He didn't believe them in the beginning and he forced their coach out, and they feel betrayed by him, and so do I.

i think that all of us can agree that, overall, duke athletics has been tremendous the past several years. however, how much of that credit should go to the ad? do you really think that alleva has or could have any influence on the basketball team? it's not like if we had larry, moe or curly in there, the basketball team would have been any better or worse. it is somewhat like w as president. most people think that he is an utter buffon and will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time. however, the economy has been tremendous, crime has dropped to historic lows and we have not had another terrorist attack since 9/11 under his tenure.

i do think that alleva's reign should be defined by:

(1) a disgraceful handling of the lax affair;
(2) a disgraceful football program that is o-fer as long as i can remember;
(3) causing, for whatever reason, coach g to leave and
(4) a drunk boatgate that he tarred and feathered his kid over

one of the above may be grounds for getting rid of him. having all 4 occur should make it a slam dunk to get rid of him. i think that he represents duke in a most embarrassing and amateurish manner and that he should be replaced no matter how many titles different sports win.

Indoor66
08-07-2007, 09:51 PM
i think that all of us can agree that, overall, duke athletics has been tremendous the past several years. however, how much of that credit should go to the ad? do you really think that Alleva has or could have any influence on the basketball team? it's not like if we had larry, moe or curly in there, the basketball team would have been any better or worse. it is somewhat like w as president. most people think that he is an utter buffon and will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time. however, the economy has been tremendous, crime has dropped to historic lows and we have not had another terrorist attack since 9/11 under his tenure.

i do think that alleva's reign should be defined by:

(1) a disgraceful handling of the lax affair;
(2) a disgraceful football program that is o-fer as long as i can remember;
(3) causing, for whatever reason, coach g to leave and
(4) a drunk boatgate that he tarred and feathered his kid over

one of the above may be grounds for getting rid of him. having all 4 occur should make it a slam dunk to get rid of him. i think that he represents duke in a most embarrassing and amateurish manner and that he should be replaced no matter how many titles different sports win.

I don't understand. Does he only get blame for any failures and no credit for any positives? Does he have no influence on any wins but participates in all failures? As for football, our string of "less than success" (with a couple of Spurrier years as the exception) goes back to Bill Murray retiring. Eddie Cameron was AD then. Tom Butters followed Eddie and Joe Alleva was an assistant AD under Butters. Butters hired K and G and Rennie and most other coaches that have not been hired by his employee, Alleva. I don't understand the vitriol out there for Alleva. Our athletic performance is, overall, at a near-high level in the history of Duke. He is not perfect, no one is; but he has done a heck of a job in the big scheme of things.

dukie8
08-07-2007, 10:30 PM
I don't understand. Does he only get blame for any failures and no credit for any positives? Does he have no influence on any wins but participates in all failures? As for football, our string of "less than success" (with a couple of Spurrier years as the exception) goes back to Bill Murray retiring. Eddie Cameron was AD then. Tom Butters followed Eddie and Joe Alleva was an assistant AD under Butters. Butters hired K and G and Rennie and most other coaches that have not been hired by his employee, Alleva. I don't understand the vitriol out there for Alleva. Our athletic performance is, overall, at a near-high level in the history of Duke. He is not perfect, no one is; but he has done a heck of a job in the big scheme of things.

the point is that duke athletics was great before he got to duke and still is great. he gets zero credit related to anything that the basketball team does, which is the most high profile element of duke athletics (and zero blame for when things go south like this year). where you have to judge him is (1) his hires; (2) his overall vision and spearheading of broad improvements and (3) his overall leadership and how he represents the school (ie, does he avoid embarrassing the school).

i think that his hires are mixed. i'm not that close to everything going on at duke, but, from what i gathered on these boards, causing coach g to leave was largely his fault. i don't think that we should have dropped a million dollars for the coach of a team that loses a couple of million a year but i got the feeling that there were larger issues at play that were alleva's fault and that she was leaving no matter how much was offered. from what i gather, other hires, like baseball, golf and lax, were very good. roof has been nothing short of a disaster.

his overall vision has been mediocre. i don't really care about the football stadium but enough other people do and he has done nothing for it. most of the support system already was in place (eg, iron dukes) and i don't recall any massive fund raising campaigns or any initiatives to, say endow all scholarships. sprucing up cameron was nice but the games were going to be sold out whether brass railings were installed or not.

#3 is where he gets a big fat F and is the reason he should have been canned. we cannot have people in leadership positions getting boozed up on boats, crashing them and then sticking their kids with the blame. if he were at a public company, he would have been sacked for that. his handling of the lax affair was nothing short of a disgrace. i do understand that he really was a puppet for brodhead and the board but there certainly were opportunities for him to have at least tried to have looked somewhat like a leader. how hard would it have been for him to have organized some type of a support system for the players (particularly after pressler was left on the curb)? the entire country got to see what a weak bumbling fool he is last year in his handling of the lax affair. duke athletics deserves a lot better than that.

watzone
08-07-2007, 10:49 PM
I've heard some rumors, but you are stating a lot of those as facts. There was a time when I wasn't too keen on Alleva. After looking at the situation without emotion, his recent hires of Coach P and the golf coach are about as good as it gets. Baseball is showing signs of life too. While the LAX situation was indeed a doozy, he can't be the only scapegoat to lose his job;) If he gets the admin to fix Wade up, that'll be a huge step. I think the basketball practice facility must be finished before that can be done. I'd be willing to bet K is happy that he might finish his career out with somebody he knows too. While I am not happy with the support football gets from the ups, I am okay with the decision to retain him. He obviously had a lot of people go to bat for him.

Hollerman
08-07-2007, 10:50 PM
The chairs are aligned on the ship. Can anyone figure out why the ship is sinking in football? It's not Ted's fault. It's not the players fault. The Admin thinks that sports are just a sideline to life at the universtity. The only problem: the Admin is a sideline to a stranger disaster ... Duke football. Alleva doesn't get it. If you cancel a sport, you make the statement that it's irrelevant ... which they did ... and were wrong. Alleva is therefore irrelevant. I love him personally ... he is a liabilty.

dukie8
08-07-2007, 11:31 PM
I've heard some rumors, but you are stating a lot of those as facts. There was a time when I wasn't too keen on Alleva. After looking at the situation without emotion, his recent hires of Coach P and the golf coach are about as good as it gets. Baseball is showing signs of life too. While the LAX situation was indeed a doozy, he can't be the only scapegoat to lose his job;) If he gets the admin to fix Wade up, that'll be a huge step. I think the basketball practice facility must be finished before that can be done. I'd be willing to bet K is happy that he might finish his career out with somebody he knows too. While I am not happy with the support football gets from the ups, I am okay with the decision to retain him. He obviously had a lot of people go to bat for him.

i agree with most of what you wrote but calling the coach p and golf coach hires about as good as it gets is a bit much. they haven't even coached a game/tournament yet! on paper they look good, but so did some of the football coaches, doherty, gut and most of the college hoops coach who recently have gone to the nba (and failed miserably).

JG Nothing
08-08-2007, 01:12 AM
I find it incredible that only lacrosse players seem to get punished. A lacrosse player sends an admittedly ugly but private email and he gets suspended.

Can you please document that McFadyen was suspended as a form of punishment? According to his lawyer it was for his own safety. From the N&O, April 5, 2006:
"Ryan McFadyen, the lacrosse player at the center of an e-mail that police say was sent shortly after a woman reported that she was raped at a lacrosse party on March 13 has been suspended from Duke University, according to his lawyer. Glen Bachman said he did not know why McFadyen was suspended but believed it had to do with the player's safety. He said he did not know of any specific disciplinary action the school had taken. "I think it was a safety concern for him and the university," Bachman said in an interview."

Given all the concerns at the time about the New Black Panthers and the possibility of retaliation from the Durham community, suspending McFadyen could certainly be viewed as a prudent, precautionary action.

formerdukeathlete
08-08-2007, 09:11 AM
i do think that alleva's reign should be defined by:

(1) a disgraceful handling of the lax affair;
(2) a disgraceful football program that is o-fer as long as i can remember;
(3) causing, for whatever reason, coach g to leave and
(4) a drunk boatgate that he tarred and feathered his kid over

one of the above may be grounds for getting rid of him.

Re - (1) OK, based on everything I have heard, including from folks who defend Brodhead, the handling the lax matter was top down, entirely, from Brodhead, though Brodhead kept Trustees slightly informed. (In my opinion, Brodhead mis-informed the Trustees as to the actual facts known at the time.) So, what was Joe to do. Stand up to Brodhead at the time? Brodhead was a rash, angry person.

Re - (2) The few football coaches who expressed interest in the Duke job last go around wanted Duke, as a condition to taking the job, to agree to accelerated facilities improvements and to make other commitments to the Program - Bobby Ross, for example. The Duke admin was unwilling to do this. So, who was Duke to hire? Roof was the only choice under the circumstances. As, Watzone indicated, Duke needs to upgrade its commitment to Football, no matter what, or else face the eventuality of being dropped from the ACC. You say this cannot happen. Get back to early to mid 70s basketball and it can happen. You say that won't happen. Well, I say it can, particularly as our arena pales in comparison to others and as Brodhead admits so many foreign students and diversity geeks that our students lose interest in going to the games. Whose more to blame re football than - Duke admin. types.

(3) I honestly have no information on why G left except that through the grapevine she and other women's coaches were unhappy about what happened to their friend Mike Pressler. Who to blame for what happened to Mike - Brodhead, of course.

(4) Well, where, when I grew up the joke was folks learned how to drive a stick shift with a can of beer in their hands (notwithstanding a 21 drinking age). I know of few boaters who do not partake while on an outing. Personally, i have never had a DUI, as a result of driving a car or a boat. This was Alleva's first boating accident. And, it followed a time in which Brodhead made him fire Pressler and was in a time when he was being micro-managed by Brodhead.

All of your points above suggest firing someone - and that person is Brodhead.

wxyz
08-08-2007, 09:55 AM
Realistically the Duke AD just follows instructions from others. The present AD is loyal to Coach K and Brodhead, and he looks good on TV.

Tom B.
08-08-2007, 10:10 AM
His last two coaching hires - women's basketball and men's golf - seem like excellent choices.


While I understand that many (including myself) question the way Pressler was treated, it must be noted that John Danowski also has turned out to be an excellent hire. Just wanted to make sure that particular data point wasn't left out of the equation.

snowdenscold
08-08-2007, 11:01 AM
Well, I say it can, particularly as our arena pales in comparison to others and as Brodhead admits so many foreign students and diversity geeks that our students lose interest in going to the games.

What are you babbling on about? Diversity geeks? And some of my good friends at school were international students, tyvm. Are you trying to take Duke back to a overwhelmingly white, regional university where the average car driving by would be a frat guy in a pickup truck with beer in hand? Grow up and welcome to the 21st century. There are ways to boost football attendance, but you're out of line.

SoCalDukeFan
08-08-2007, 11:07 AM
Can you please document that McFadyen was suspended as a form of punishment? According to his lawyer it was for his own safety. From the N&O, April 5, 2006:
"Ryan McFadyen, the lacrosse player at the center of an e-mail that police say was sent shortly after a woman reported that she was raped at a lacrosse party on March 13 has been suspended from Duke University, according to his lawyer. Glen Bachman said he did not know why McFadyen was suspended but believed it had to do with the player's safety. He said he did not know of any specific disciplinary action the school had taken. "I think it was a safety concern for him and the university," Bachman said in an interview."

Given all the concerns at the time about the New Black Panthers and the possibility of retaliation from the Durham community, suspending McFadyen could certainly be viewed as a prudent, precautionary action.

There are other things, short of suspension that Duke could have done to protect the student. Pressler was fired when the email came out and I think that is when the season was canceled. I think that the safety concern was concocted by Duke to justify the suspension. I may be wrong.

My main point was the Alleva's boat trip and its timing should have been enough to cause him not to keep his job.

The Gordog
08-08-2007, 11:29 AM
we cannot have people in leadership positions getting boozed up on boats, crashing them and then sticking their kids with the blame. if he were at a public company, he would have been sacked for that.


I agree 100% with that !


i do understand that he really was a puppet for brodhead and the board but there certainly were opportunities for him to have at least tried to have looked somewhat like a leader.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. He was a puppet for Brodhead on the lax affair and so Brodhead is kepping him around. It's that simple.

coblue
08-08-2007, 11:33 AM
I cannot see how the correctly noted improvement of nearly all of the lesser athletic teams warrants more weight than the utter mismanagement of the major ones and outright sacrificing of a member of the staff and students in the Lacrosse situation.

His tenure is a blight on the name and more water on the long slippery slope down to the grist mill.

Duvall
08-08-2007, 11:38 AM
Are you trying to take Duke back to a overwhelmingly white, regional university ...?

I think FDA has made it quite clear that that's precisely what he wants.

Carlos
08-08-2007, 11:39 AM
Alleva reappointed....
Carlos disappointed

arnie
08-08-2007, 12:41 PM
I quickly read a hardcopy of the N&O this morning and the comments from certain members of the Duke community outside of official administrators(including the founder of the Iron Dukes) are quite revealing. I don't require the exact words, but comments made regarding Alleva along these lines - don't know what else they could have done, Joe simply follows orders and is loyal to Duke, Joe has worked at Duke a long time, Joe doesn't have a vision but that's OK. If someone has a link to the article , that would be helpful.

Essentially, in addition to the all his obvious faults, no one seems to have a good reason to keep him other than to insinuate he is only a puppet. If that is the case, we should do as Vandy has done and eliminate the position. We could "Bucky Water" him and give him a hospital job to reward his loyalty.

I think many posters have it correct; the top dogs at Duke don't really care or want a mediocre or successful football program. If that is the case, we should drop the sport and seek alliance with the Big East on the bball side or CAA. I have attended about 50% of the home football games since 1970 and those days are now over for me. If Duke doesn't care, why should I???

ehdg
08-08-2007, 01:44 PM
I'm shocked that we have renewed Alleva's contract. This really is a sad day I think in our Athletic Dept's. history. This man has time and time again made some bad choices for us. First was the hiring of Coach Franks and then sticking with him so long. I did and still like the hiring though of Roof. I think in time he will get the team turned around but considering from where he got the team we all knew it would take some time as Coach Franks had really run it into the ground or maybe even below the ground. Plus losing our starting QB at the start of the season really hurt. Then the LAX incident which I think President Broadhead is equally to blame for firing Pressler and not supporting the players. Plus neither person has publicly stepped up and spoken out against the group of 88 to this day. Then the boating incident on the lake with his son not that long after the LAX happenings. Let's not forget the baseball team and steroids. Also I really believe he didn't make a strong enough pitch and waited to long to show Coach G how much we loved, wanted and respected her for bringing our Ladies program to where it presently is. Alleva is no Tom Butters, but then again few are but he's really not done a good job and has let our Athletic program fall back from where it was when he got it. I love our school, teams and students and players but I'm sorry Alleva just isn't the right man to be running our Athletic Program. The man isn't a leader, follower yes but a leader NO!!

Jarhead
08-08-2007, 02:18 PM
I think many posters have it correct; the top dogs at Duke don't really care or want a mediocre or successful football program. If that is the case, we should drop the sport and seek alliance with the Big East on the bball side or CAA. I have attended about 50% of the home football games since 1970 and those days are now over for me. If Duke doesn't care, why should I???

Here's your linky link (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/663531.html)to the N&O.

If they did as you suggest, departing from the ACC, that would be cause for dismissal of the whole bunch of them. That's just too much revenue to give up. Here's something to chew on. Which of the NC schools in the ACC most recently won the ACC football championship? The answer is Duke and Wake.

It looks as if your campaign to get rid of Joe has fallen on deaf ears. He'll hold on until he retires. You can bet on that, now. Besides, I don't knpw what is wrong with somebody that does as he is told, and is loyal to the University. The main complaint of most of you has to do with football. He didn't put it in the shape it's in. That happened a long time ago. Blame Tom Butters, Carl James and Mike McGee (coach who started it all) if it would make you feel better. If Joe were to be canned tomorrow, football would still have the same hill to climb.

I suppose you are clutching at straws. My suggestion to you is to put a sock in it, change your online name to something positive, sit back and enjoy one of the best University sports programs in the country (including lacrosse). I don't know where your conspiracy theory comes from, but pulling back from it is sure to improve your overall state of mind.

arnie
08-08-2007, 03:21 PM
We obviously disagree on what it takes to be a leader and no, I won't put a sock in it nor change my post name. Because, I grew up with Duke football, it is very hard for me to "enjoy one of the best sports programs around". Our football hasn't been very good for a long time, but under Alleva's direction it has plummeted to depths unseen since Northwestern's legacy many years ago.

You can go attend all the women's field hockey, golf and lacrosse games and enjoy them, but it is very difficult to attend for me to Duke football games over and over and over. Your man has won out - congratulations.

formerdukeathlete
08-08-2007, 03:49 PM
I think FDA has made it quite clear that that's precisely what he wants.

Firstly, in terms of affirmative action in the admission process, I would limit this to folks of African American descent, and not folks who just arrived, but rather folks who are several generation American. I cannot fathom why we should give preference to someone from Puerto Rico over someone who is from the US. Also, without getting too far into contstitutional law, the degree to which Duke offeres affirmative action preferences (standard deviation from mean kind of stuff) at this point in time, with respect to the just admitted class, exceeds that of peer institutions and is discriminatory. Where is the "state action." Notwithstanding that Duke is a private institution, it receives multiple of millions of federal and state funds each year. Google data re Harvard admitted class; Princeton's admitted class; Yale's admitted class. Lower percentages of the incoming fresham are black and hispanic. Significant lower percentages are Asian. For example, Harvard's incoming class is 18% and Duke's is about 30%. So, are you suggesting that Harvard is on track to becoming a regional university because it does not embody the pc extremist policies of Brodhead?!

I quite frankly do not appreciate misinformed, and flip insinuation.

merry
08-08-2007, 03:56 PM
...and he looks good on TV.

Yeah, as long as he keeps his mouth shut.

snowdenscold
08-08-2007, 04:10 PM
Significant lower percentages are Asian. For example, Harvard's incoming class is 18% and Duke's is about 30%. So, are you suggesting that Harvard is on track to becoming a regional university because it does not embody the pc extremist policies of Brodhead?!

I quite frankly do not appreciate misinformed, and flip insinuation.

Well, assuming (and correct me if I'm wrong), Duke finds Asians well represented enough already and doesn't give them AA consideration, wouldn't that just mean that the top 30% or so (assuming that's an accurate stat - I doubt it's quite that high) of applicants happened to be Asian? Is that a problem to you? You're all about merit - at what % do we become like Berkley and intentionally limit the number? That way more white students could attend... you know, a group that just isn't represented well enough but could bring additional benefits to the university besides academics - like being in frats and going to football games.

Duvall
08-08-2007, 04:25 PM
Firstly, in terms of affirmative action in the admission process, I would limit this to folks of African American descent, and not folks who just arrived, but rather folks who are several generation American. I cannot fathom why we should give preference to someone from Puerto Rico over someone who is from the US. Also, without getting too far into contstitutional law, the degree to which Duke offeres affirmative action preferences (standard deviation from mean kind of stuff) at this point in time, with respect to the just admitted class, exceeds that of peer institutions and is discriminatory. Where is the "state action." Notwithstanding that Duke is a private institution, it receives multiple of millions of federal and state funds each year. Google data re Harvard admitted class; Princeton's admitted class; Yale's admitted class. Lower percentages of the incoming fresham are black and hispanic. Significant lower percentages are Asian. For example, Harvard's incoming class is 18% and Duke's is about 30%. So, are you suggesting that Harvard is on track to becoming a regional university because it does not embody the pc extremist policies of Brodhead?!

I quite frankly do not appreciate misinformed, and flip insinuation.

I'm not insinuating anything. I am stating, quite plainly, that your posts indicate that you believe that Duke does not admit enough white students, and too many minority students. This interpretation is, I believe, firmly supported by your last post.

The last time you raised this argument, you were asked - repeatedly - to provide support for your claims about the numbers of students admitted to Duke under affirmative action, and you utterly failed to do so. I don't expect you to do any better this time around, but in the interest of board comity, I will ask again - where are you getting your numbers?

BDevilU
08-08-2007, 05:00 PM
Blarg!

Will this insanity never end?

Indoor66
08-08-2007, 05:48 PM
:mad: Can we stay on topic? If not can it be taken to the Off Topic board?

SoCalDukeFan
08-09-2007, 01:19 AM
What are your expectations for Alleva in the next 5 years?

I personally think the we need to figure out how to be successful in football within the confines of the school's academic mission. I also think that he is not the guy to figure it out.

The second job will be either replacing K or making sure that the transition will be smooth. I think that K will dictate here and that Alleva will do whatever K wants. Which is probably ok.

BTW, my guess is that Alleva assured himself of getting rehired when he fired Pressler. Good soldier. Good boy.

SoCal

merry
08-09-2007, 11:00 AM
Other thoughts on things that could happen over the next 5 years:
- what happens if McNally, Roof or McCallie don't work out?
- will we need to replace any other coaches due to retirement (Rennie?)

bluedevil
08-20-2007, 09:04 PM
Didn't insiders claim Coach K wasn't that close to Alleva any more and wouldn't stand in the way of his inevitable replacement after the boating, lacrosse, baseball, football, etc.? From K's quotes they sound like great friends like always. With #2 soccer's Rennie retiring after he won a national title, does anyone trust that Alleva can find a coach that won't take the program down? All I read on DBR was the official goduke.com press release, no "our call" or opinion expressed in a story or even a message board, didn't dbr and thedevilsden officially call for Franks to be removed a few days at most before he was fired?

Highlander
08-22-2007, 02:00 PM
Didn't insiders claim Coach K wasn't that close to Alleva any more and wouldn't stand in the way of his inevitable replacement after the boating, lacrosse, baseball, football, etc.? From K's quotes they sound like great friends like always. With #2 soccer's Rennie retiring after he won a national title, does anyone trust that Alleva can find a coach that won't take the program down? All I read on DBR was the official goduke.com press release, no "our call" or opinion expressed in a story or even a message board, didn't dbr and thedevilsden officially call for Franks to be removed a few days at most before he was fired?

Your statement is a little misleading. Rennie won his first and only national title in 1986, which was over 20 years ago, and well before Alleva became AD. He isn't leaving on the heels of a title. His retirement seems to be a natural step for a coach who is getting up there in years. I don't think you meant it this way, but I wanted to clarify.

As to whether Alleva can find a suitable replacement, the jury is still out. Rennie is the type of legend that will be tough to replace, no matter who is hired.