ESPN's Top 500 again (Duke guys)

[JNort]

ESPNs Top 500 NBA players http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8246986/2012-nba-player-rankings-401-500

452: Lance Thomas- New Orleans Hornets
433: Miles Plumlee- Indiana Pacers
407: Kyle Singler- Detroit Pistons
393: Sheldon Williams- Free Agent
358: Chris Duhon- LA Lakers
338: Nolan Smith- Portland Trailblazers
304: Josh McBob- Orlando Magic
301: Dahntay Jones- Dallas Mavericks
285: Austin Rivers- New Orleans
221: Corey Maggette- Detroit Pistons
184: Gerald Henderson- Charlotte Bobcats
166: Mike Dunleavy- Milwaukee Bucks


Notables:

422: Elliot Williams- Portland Trailblazers
179: The Black Pigeon- Golden State Warriors (WHAT?!?)
173: Raymond Felton- New York Knicks (???)



So what does everyone think of the rankings so far? I really want to know why how Nolan Smith beat out Raymond Felton at the end of the year and is ranked 338 while Felton is 173. Also how is Barnes who has never played an NBA game better than Henderson who is the best player (albeit on a bad team) on his team?

So out of the guys that are left where do you think they will be ranked? I am really interested to see where JJ comes to this year and Loul as well since he just had an All Star year.

[sagegrouse]

To complete the thought, the missing Duke guys are JJ, Grant, Elton, Boozer and Luol. Who else?

sagegrouse

[JNort]

To complete the thought, the missing Duke guys are JJ, Grant, Elton, Boozer and Luol. Who else?

sagegrouse

Kyrie!!!

[CampbellBlueDevil]

To complete the thought, the missing Duke guys are JJ, Grant, Elton, Boozer and Luol. Who else?

sagegrouse

That should be it.

They've got Shelden listed and he's not even going to be in the NBA. Miles is listed above Lance without having ever played a game. I don't think you can really distinguish that well between the lower tier NBA players and probably not a ton of thought was placed into ranking the bottom group.

Edit: Kyrie... wonder how high he'll be.

[sagegrouse]

Kyrie!!!

Thanks. -- sage

[JNort]

That should be it.

They've got Shelden listed and he's not even going to be in the NBA. Miles is listed above Lance without having ever played a game. I don't think you can really distinguish that well between the lower tier NBA players and probably not a ton of thought was placed into ranking the bottom group.

Edit: Kyrie... wonder how high he'll be.

It looks to me as if they out some thought into it, maybe not a lot but they did a bit. Sheldon is on there based on past performance and because he can still be picked up via free agency. Miles over Lance makes since because Miles was A) drafted B) more Athletic/Higher potential and C) His Summer league performance are all signs he should be better than Lance.

As for Kyrie??? That should be tricky, I think as of right now he is a sure fire top 8 pg which should make him no worse than a top 50 player in the NBA. However he has only played one year and he was hurt for a good portion of it which may hurt his ranking.

[robwon]

That should be it.

They've got Shelden listed and he's not even going to be in the NBA. Miles is listed above Lance without having ever played a game. I don't think you can really distinguish that well between the lower tier NBA players and probably not a ton of thought was placed into ranking the bottom group.

Edit: Kyrie... wonder how high he'll be.

have we forgotten a certain mr battier? =)

[CampbellBlueDevil]

Was it 16 Duke players in the NBA last year?

Maybe after Battier's second championship ring I will never forget him off of lists.

[roywhite]

A list of top NBA players that includes Lance Thomas makes me smile.

I wonder just who, other than Coach K and Lance himself, thought we'd see him in the NBA?
I certainly didn't think so. Go, Lance!

[hood7]

Grant Hill has always been pretty good at basketball - wonder where a 40-year-old can rank?

[ChillinDuke]

Assuming all above mentioned players make NBA opening day rosters, does that mean 19 Dukies in the NBA?!

That has to be the most I've ever seen. Most ever?

- Chillin

[luvdahops]

ESPNs Top 500 NBA players http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8246986/2012-nba-player-rankings-401-500

452: Lance Thomas- New Orleans Hornets
433: Miles Plumlee- Indiana Pacers
407: Kyle Singler- Detroit Pistons
393: Sheldon Williams- Free Agent
358: Chris Duhon- LA Lakers
338: Nolan Smith- Portland Trailblazers
304: Josh McBob- Orlando Magic
301: Dahntay Jones- Dallas Mavericks
285: Austin Rivers- New Orleans
221: Corey Maggette- Detroit Pistons
184: Gerald Henderson- Charlotte Bobcats
166: Mike Dunleavy- Milwaukee Bucks


Notables:

422: Elliot Williams- Portland Trailblazers
179: The Black Pigeon- Golden State Warriors (WHAT?!?)
173: Raymond Felton- New York Knicks (???)



So what does everyone think of the rankings so far? I really want to know why how Nolan Smith beat out Raymond Felton at the end of the year and is ranked 338 while Felton is 173. Also how is Barnes who has never played an NBA game better than Henderson who is the best player (albeit on a bad team) on his team?

So out of the guys that are left where do you think they will be ranked? I am really interested to see where JJ comes to this year and Loul as well since he just had an All Star year.

ESPN has consistently been among the worst "over-hypers" of Barnes. Chad Ford always overrated him in his Mock Drafts (in addition to grossly mischaracterizing the nature of the Black Pigeon's game) and HB's face was usually on the link to Hollinger Player Efficiency Ratings, despite the fact that he was way the hell down the actual list. Articles on upcoming UNC games - regular season or tourney - usually featured a picture of him, rather than Zeller, Henson or Marshall, all of whom were more important to last year's squad. So it is hardly a surprise that their NBA Top 500 ratings have him overrated.

[JasonEvans]

I am a little confused at this list as there are not 500 players in the NBA, are there? 30 teams with 15 men on each roster equals 450 players in the NBA. Heck, I think some teams don't even bother to fill all 15 player slots, do they?

-Jason "I guess it can be over 500 in the off-season, when rosters expand to accommodate rookies and free agents before cuts begin" Evans

[dcdevil2009]

I am a little confused at this list as there are not 500 players in the NBA, are there? 30 teams with 15 men on each roster equals 450 players in the NBA. Heck, I think some teams don't even bother to fill all 15 player slots, do they?

-Jason "I guess it can be over 500 in the off-season, when rosters expand to accommodate rookies and free agents before cuts begin" Evans

Without knowing the exact number, I'm pretty sure more than 450 people played in the NBA last year, with injuries and cuts leading to D-league call-ups and other 10-day signings. You could also get to 510 by the 450 roster slots at the end of last year plus the 60 draft pick.

[JNort]

I am a little confused at this list as there are not 500 players in the NBA, are there? 30 teams with 15 men on each roster equals 450 players in the NBA. Heck, I think some teams don't even bother to fill all 15 player slots, do they?

-Jason "I guess it can be over 500 in the off-season, when rosters expand to accommodate rookies and free agents before cuts begin" Evans


Without knowing the exact number, I'm pretty sure more than 450 people played in the NBA last year, with injuries and cuts leading to D-league call-ups and other 10-day signings. You could also get to 510 by the 450 roster slots at the end of last year plus the 60 draft pick.

That is your answer right there! During the season guys get injured and cut so more than 500 end up playing.

[JNort]

452: Lance Thomas- New Orleans Hornets
433: Miles Plumlee- Indiana Pacers
407: Kyle Singler- Detroit Pistons
393: Sheldon Williams- Free Agent
358: Chris Duhon- LA Lakers
338: Nolan Smith- Portland Trailblazers
304: Josh McBob- Orlando Magic
301: Dahntay Jones- Dallas Mavericks
285: Austin Rivers- New Orleans
221: Corey Maggette- Detroit Pistons
184: Gerald Henderson- Charlotte Bobcats
166: Mike Dunleavy- Milwaukee Bucks
115: JJ Redick- Orlando Magic
114: Grant Hill- LA Clippers
107: Shane Battier- Miami Heat
85: Elton Brand- Dallas Mavericks
67: Carlos Boozer- Chicago Bulls



Sadly I forgot all about Brand. He has been around a long while now.

[JNort]

Maybe I am being a Homer here but I really expected JJ to be ranked in the top 100.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Maybe I am being a Homer here but I really expected JJ to be ranked in the top 100.

Yeah, no offense, but I think that's pretty blatant homer-ism. I have enjoyed watching JJ rise in the esteem of the league and gain playing time, but the top 100 will likely not be players that started about a quarter of their team's games last year. Considering the fact that the top 150 players would be regular starters, I think JJ's ranking is pretty complimentary.

[sagegrouse]

Maybe I am being a Homer here but I really expected JJ to be ranked in the top 100.


Yeah, no offense, but I think that's pretty blatant homer-ism. I have enjoyed watching JJ rise in the esteem of the league and gain playing time, but the top 100 will likely not be players that started about a quarter of their team's games last year. Considering the fact that the top 150 players would be regular starters, I think JJ's ranking is pretty complimentary.

JJ (# 114) started 22 out of 67 games and had career highs in minutes, PPG, RPG, 3-pt % and assists. It's a good ranking for a sometimes starter.

Battier came off the bench for only the second time in his career and had career lows in just about everything. And he ranks #107. Of course, his final act of the season was pretty special.

sagegrouse

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

JJ (# 114) started 22 out of 67 games and had career highs in minutes, PPG, RPG, 3-pt % and assists. It's a good ranking for a sometimes starter.

Battier came off the bench for only the second time in his career and had career lows in just about everything. And he ranks #107. Of course, his final act of the season was pretty special.

sagegrouse

Amazing to think that some of us are old enough to remember when one of the last things UNC fans used to say about K was how he couldn't produce NBA players. Times have really changed.

I'm really pleased with the rankings of both Battier and JJ, though it's a meaningless ranking system and only fills time between seasons...

[subzero02]

It is Shelden not Sheldon... There is no "O" in his name.

[JasonEvans]

Anyone want to guess where Kyrie will fall? Could he crack the top 10? Probably not. I think late-teens at the best.

-Jason "I expect he will be in the top 10 in a couple years though" Evans

[jimsumner]

It seems to me that Henderson might be the Duke guy a bit undervalued here.

[budwom]

It seems to me that Henderson might be the Duke guy a bit undervalued here.

If he played for a team other than the Washington Generals (southern appendage) he probably would be.

[johnb]

If he played for a team other than the Washington Generals (southern appendage) he probably would be.

maybe, but if he played for a playoff team, his minutes would probably go down significantly. do people think he'd start elsewhere?

[JNort]

Anyone want to guess where Kyrie will fall? Could he crack the top 10? Probably not. I think late-teens at the best.

-Jason "I expect he will be in the top 10 in a couple years though" Evans

I would guess 25 to 40 is where he will end up. He is a top 10 pg right now but has only been around one year and he was hurt for a portion of it. He will continue to rise though especially if the Cavs can surround him with decent talent.

I agree he will be top 10 a few years btw.



maybe, but if he played for a playoff team, his minutes would probably go down significantly. do people think he'd start elsewhere?

Yeah I believe he would start elsewhere! Or at least get starter minutes that is. I doubt he would be the star of the team like he is for the Cats though.

[SilkyJ]

Anyone want to guess where Kyrie will fall? Could he crack the top 10? Probably not. I think late-teens at the best.

-Jason "I expect he will be in the top 10 in a couple years though" Evans


I would guess 25 to 40 is where he will end up.

Almost my thoughts exactly. Was going to say 20-40. I think he's probably deserved of right around 20-30 to start the year, but I think he'll be a 10 player much faster than you guys. I think it could be as soon as the end of next year. He's so young and improving so quickly--he's still basically just out of HS and those 82 games will be like 2 full college seasons in terms of experience. I think he's a top 3 PG and arguably top 10 player by the end of the year. He's a deadly shooter, has one of the nastiest handles in the league, and has crazy finishing skills with both hands. I think he might even be the best PG in the NBA by the end of next year (Derrick Rose's injury being a major factor in that argument).

I'm crazy bullish on this kid. Like MVP bullish.

[JNort]

Almost my thoughts exactly. Was going to say 20-40. I think he's probably deserved of right around 20-30 to start the year, but I think he'll be a 10 player much faster than you guys. I think it could be as soon as the end of next year. He's so young and improving so quickly--he's still basically just out of HS and those 82 games will be like 2 full college seasons in terms of experience. I think he's a top 3 PG and arguably top 10 player by the end of the year. He's a deadly shooter, has one of the nastiest handles in the league, and has crazy finishing skills with both hands. I think he might even be the best PG in the NBA by the end of next year (Derrick Rose's injury being a major factor in that argument).

I'm crazy bullish on this kid. Like MVP bullish.

I think bad teammates will prevent him from being a top 3 pg next year, that is why I say 2 season more or so. I must admit I am also a complete homer for CP3 who IMO is the best pg in the nba right now with Rondo being 2nd and a tie for 3rd with Rose and DWill.

[mdj]

numbers 26-30 came out today. Did I miss Battier or is he top 25 in the league?

i see i missed him. im such a huge battier fan that i was somehow able to talk myself into the possibility of him being top 25. :o

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think bad teammates will prevent him from being a top 3 pg next year, that is why I say 2 season more or so. I must admit I am also a complete homer for CP3 who IMO is the best pg in the nba right now with Rondo being 2nd and a tie for 3rd with Rose and DWill.

CP3 became a top PG without much help from his teammates. I think the league will recognize Kyrie even more next season, but I agree - bad teammates will be an issue for winning, but for Kyrie props.

[JasonEvans]

numbers 26-30 came out today. Did I miss Battier or is he top 25 in the league?

i see i missed him. im such a huge battier fan that i was somehow able to talk myself into the possibility of him being top 25. :o

You missed him. Shane is just outside the top 100. Hard to argue with that ranking.

452: Lance Thomas- New Orleans Hornets
433: Miles Plumlee- Indiana Pacers
407: Kyle Singler- Detroit Pistons
393: Sheldon Williams- Free Agent
358: Chris Duhon- LA Lakers
338: Nolan Smith- Portland Trailblazers
304: Josh McBob- Orlando Magic
301: Dahntay Jones- Dallas Mavericks
285: Austin Rivers- New Orleans
221: Corey Maggette- Detroit Pistons
184: Gerald Henderson- Charlotte Bobcats
166: Mike Dunleavy- Milwaukee Bucks
115: JJ Redick- Orlando Magic
114: Grant Hill- LA Clippers
107: Shane Battier- Miami Heat
85: Elton Brand- Dallas Mavericks
67: Carlos Boozer- Chicago Bulls

We still await Kyrie, who I predicted might be as high as the late teens. He is the only Dukie yet to be ranked. It is an impressive list!

-Jason "I think Austin and Gerald have the potential to move into the top 100 after this coming season -- Kyrie will be top 10 in a year or two, I bet" Evans

[NSDukeFan]

You missed him. Shane is just outside the top 100. Hard to argue with that ranking.

452: Lance Thomas- New Orleans Hornets
433: Miles Plumlee- Indiana Pacers
407: Kyle Singler- Detroit Pistons
393: Sheldon Williams- Free Agent
358: Chris Duhon- LA Lakers
338: Nolan Smith- Portland Trailblazers
304: Josh McBob- Orlando Magic
301: Dahntay Jones- Dallas Mavericks
285: Austin Rivers- New Orleans
221: Corey Maggette- Detroit Pistons
184: Gerald Henderson- Charlotte Bobcats
166: Mike Dunleavy- Milwaukee Bucks
115: JJ Redick- Orlando Magic
114: Grant Hill- LA Clippers
107: Shane Battier- Miami Heat
85: Elton Brand- Dallas Mavericks
67: Carlos Boozer- Chicago Bulls

We still await Kyrie, who I predicted might be as high as the late teens. He is the only Dukie yet to be ranked. It is an impressive list!

-Jason "I think Austin and Gerald have the potential to move into the top 100 after this coming season -- Kyrie will be top 10 in a year or two, I bet" Evans

Kyrie is pictured in the list for today 21-25, though they have already shown 24 and 25, so Kyrie is somewhere between 21 and 23, pretty impressive.

[jipops]

You missed him. Shane is just outside the top 100. Hard to argue with that ranking.

452: Lance Thomas- New Orleans Hornets
433: Miles Plumlee- Indiana Pacers
407: Kyle Singler- Detroit Pistons
393: Sheldon Williams- Free Agent
358: Chris Duhon- LA Lakers
338: Nolan Smith- Portland Trailblazers
304: Josh McBob- Orlando Magic
301: Dahntay Jones- Dallas Mavericks
285: Austin Rivers- New Orleans
221: Corey Maggette- Detroit Pistons
184: Gerald Henderson- Charlotte Bobcats
166: Mike Dunleavy- Milwaukee Bucks
115: JJ Redick- Orlando Magic
114: Grant Hill- LA Clippers
107: Shane Battier- Miami Heat
85: Elton Brand- Dallas Mavericks
67: Carlos Boozer- Chicago Bulls

We still await Kyrie, who I predicted might be as high as the late teens. He is the only Dukie yet to be ranked. It is an impressive list!

-Jason "I think Austin and Gerald have the potential to move into the top 100 after this coming season -- Kyrie will be top 10 in a year or two, I bet" Evans

Loul Deng will most likely have a spot in the remainder as well.

[NSDukeFan]

Loul Deng will most likely have a spot in the remainder as well.

Luol is #37 (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8398070/2012-nba-player-rankings-31-40)

[Jeff Frosh]

Kyrie comes in at #22. Was #140 last year going into his rookie season. I agree he should be top 10 within one or two years. Not bad for 20 years old!

[JasonEvans]

Kyrie comes in at #22. Was #140 last year going into his rookie season. I agree he should be top 10 within one or two years. Not bad for 20 years old!

He's what I wonder... how many of the top 10 will have attended more than 1 year of college?

Wade, Paul, and Blake Griffin would be the only real candidates, right? Maybe Rondo? Deron Williams?

-Jason "shows you how much of an impact it would have if kids were forced to play 2 or 3 years of college ball..." Evans

[gam7]

He's what I wonder... how many of the top 10 will have attended more than 1 year of college?

Wade, Paul, and Blake Griffin would be the only real candidates, right? Maybe Rondo? Deron Williams?

-Jason "shows you how much of an impact it would have if kids were forced to play 2 or 3 years of college ball..." Evans

Westbrook.