FB: Stanford 50, Duke 13

[sagegrouse]

Game time: September 8 at 10:30 PM EDT in Palo Alto. Local time: 7:30. Limited TV coverage -- PAC12 Network.

Discuss:

I saw the Duke-Stanford game in person last year. The primary difference between the two teams was that Stanford was far more efficient on offense. Duke was the opposite -- and should have been ahead at the half. I did not think that Duke was overpowered.

Stanford survived San Jose State, 20-17, but the Cardinal should be fired up for the suddenly potent Blue Devils.

sagegrouse

[DukeSean]

It seems that our defense, while thin at depth at some positions, is pretty solid and more capable of producing turnovers. It seemed as though FIU opened up some big running lanes, so that will be a concern moving forward. Stepfan Taylor is a Heisman-caliber tailback, so containing him will be a tall order.

Stanford's offense obviously should take a hit in efficiency without Luck. We'll see how our defense, especially our secondary, matches up to that. I felt that the secondary could've been credited with more sacks during the FIU game.

We have a chance for an upset, so I hope it happens and gets us some national recognition. We have a bunch of great players (such as Vernon) who don't get the press they deserve.

[OldPhiKap]

This game should be a good measuring stick of how mature (or not) we are. Need to play solid, get some big plays, and execute the game plan.

No moral victories, guys. Go on out there and put the world on notice.

[Bob Green]

We all know preseason rankings are useless, but I'm going to quote them anyway:

Stanford - 21
FIU - 38
San Jose State - 72
Duke - 103

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/124/index1

Duke manhandled #38 FIU, while Stanford struggled with #72 SJSU. This game should be very interesting. I expect those numbers will look very different when updated later this week.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

This game should be a good measuring stick of how mature (or not) we are. Need to play solid, get some big plays, and execute the game plan.

No moral victories, guys. Go on out there and put the world on notice.


We all know preseason rankings are useless, but I'm going to quote them anyway:

Stanford - 21
FIU - 38
San Jose State - 72
Duke - 103

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/124/index1

Duke manhandled #38 FIU, while Stanford struggled with #72 SJSU. This game should be very interesting. I expect those numbers will look very different when updated later this week.

Let's go shock the football world! LET'S GO DUKE! BEAT STANFORD!

[Acymetric]

We all know preseason rankings are useless, but I'm going to quote them anyway:

Stanford - 21
FIU - 38
San Jose State - 72
Duke - 103

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/124/index1

Duke manhandled #38 FIU, while Stanford struggled with #72 SJSU. This game should be very interesting. I expect those numbers will look very different when updated later this week.

You know, its a little hard to take those rankings seriously when Duke is behind San Jose State (all due respect to Coach MacIntyre) by 30 spots.

That said, I can't wait for next Saturday. The FIU game has me officially pumped for this season...just gotta find some way to watch the game on Saturday. I wonder if there are any sports bars around here that use a service other than DirectTV

[burnspbesq]

Worth remembering that Luck wasn't the only Cardinal player to go early in the draft. They lost DeCastro and Martin from the offensive line and Fleener, a quality TE.

Much better to play them now than a month from now, when the new guys at those positions are farther along in getting acclimated.

[hq2]

Worth remembering that Luck wasn't the only Cardinal player to go early in the draft. They lost DeCastro and Martin from the offensive line and Fleener, a quality TE.

Much better to play them now than a month from now, when the new guys at those positions are farther along in getting acclimated.

Don't think Stanford is that good this year; they tend to go up and down year by year. Duke might have a shot at upsetting them, especially early in the season before they get their offense reorganized. We'll see.

[mkline09]

Not that it matters to me but food for thought Vegas has Duke a 14.5 point underdog against Stanford. I think the game is closer though.

[peloton]

Not that it matters to me but food for thought Vegas has Duke a 14.5 point underdog against Stanford.

Mkline09, excellent - I like the sound of that (seriously). I want everyone in the nation (except for our team, coaches, and the Duke faithful) thinking that we don't stand a chance in Hades to win this game. I want the entire Stanford program...every coach and each player (hey, even the student assistants handing out energy drink bottles, towels, etc.) thinking there's no way that they'll lose to the Duke Blue Devils. Okay, that said - I realize that most of the people comprising their program are intelligent and mature enough in realizing that if they play badly and we play inspired and fundamentally sound football, our guys could come home with the win. But my point is that I relish the fact that Duke is the underdog in this matchup, I hope our guys do also, and have a bit of the proverbial chip on their shoulder. Let's go out to the west coast, prove to 'em that Duke football is back, and shock the football world (as The Eternally Optimistic One said). We've taken the first step in the dawn of a new era...it's time to take the second one and pull the upset against a strong program. The coaching staff and Duke faithful know you can do it! Stick it to Stanford!!!

P.S. - Great to see some of the folks at The True Blue 'Cue Crew tent Saturday; thanks as always for the hospitality, Chris and Tim. My son & I saw Ozzie but didn't get a chance to talk with him before he disappeared.

[Wander]

I want everyone in the nation (except for our team, coaches, and the Duke faithful) thinking that we don't stand a chance in Hades to win this game.

Honestly, the spread of 14 points doesn't strike me as that much. The fact that the spread is that small for one of the worst programs of the past decade playing a true road game against a ranked team that was just in a BCS bowl game IS a sign of respect for this year's team. For comparison's sake, last year the spread was 21 points, and that game was in Durham. Admittedly Stanford was better last year, but still.

[Dukehky]

Duke defensive philosophy appears to be bend don't break. Fine with me. As long as we don't give up touchdowns, we have a shot at winning. I don't care if Stanford goes down the field 70+ yards on every drive, as long as the most points they get per drive is 3, with the occasional TO by the Duke defense.

I'm not expecting Duke to win this game, but as many have said before, the biggest difference between this game and the game last year is that there is no Andrew Luck on Stanford's team. Hopefully its an entertaining game and gets us some press, because we sure as hell didn't get any for beating the snot out of FIU. That FG block return had Top 10 written all over it, didn't happen.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

P.S. - Great to see some of the folks at The True Blue 'Cue Crew tent Saturday; thanks as always for the hospitality, Chris and Tim. My son & I saw Ozzie but didn't get a chance to talk with him before he disappeared.

Sorry I missed you. I was "only" there for over 6 1/2 hours (11:45 - 6:25) before I disappeared and went into WW to be there when the team entered the field, as Coach Cut had requested the day before! He wants to see a "blue out" of cheering fans to help get the team excited when they run onto the field through the tunnel, so I complied! :cool:

[loran16]

Vegas Sports Odds has the early line at Stanford -14. Last year Stanford opened -20. So a 12 point swing there (since Stanford gets a 3 point edge from Home Field and we had one last year).

[Bob Green]

CBS Sports has their rankings updated:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/124/index2

Stanford fell from 21 to 33, while Duke improved from 103 to 89. The ridiculousness of rankings is illustrated by FIU still being 22 spots above Duke at 67. What??? :confused:

[chrishoke]

CBS Sports has their rankings updated:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/124/index2

Stanford fell from 21 to 33, while Duke improved from 103 to 89. The ridiculousness of rankings is illustrated by FIU still being 22 spots above Duke at 67. What??? :confused:

Well, they did outgain us in total yardage.... SCOREBOARD!

[johnb]

CBS Sports has their rankings updated:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/124/index2

Stanford fell from 21 to 33, while Duke improved from 103 to 89. The ridiculousness of rankings is illustrated by FIU still being 22 spots above Duke at 67. What??? :confused:

At the top end of their rankings, Oklahoma beat UTEP by 17, while Alabama beat Michigan by 4 touchdowns. Their interpretation: moving previously #4 OU ahead of previously #3 Bama, and bumping Michigan UP from 9 to 5.

Louisville beat Kentucky (which is ranked 1 below us) by 18, and their rank soared from 29 to 10.

Boise State lost a game and jumped from 25 to 11.

Georgia won a game by 3 touchdowns and dropped from 6 to 17.

Carolina beat Elon and jumped from 30 to 18.

West Virginia won by 5 touchdowns and dropped from 10 to 25.

TCU didn't play and dropped from 16 to 30.

Navy lost by 40 points and moved up from 39 to 37.

Baylor won by 5 touchdowns and dropped from 28 to 39.

Kansas State won by 6 touchdowns and dropped from 22 to 52.

Miami (OH) lost by 46 points and moved up from 69 to 61, thereby remaining ahead of Miami (FL), which beat BC by 9.

At least we're going in the right direction

[Dev11]

Can't wait to see Stanford's campus, and can't wait to see Duke go to 2-0. Both will be firsts for me. I'm also hitting the Dodgers-Giants game earlier in the day and hope that my blue and white Duke apparel doesn't get me in any trouble with the black-and-orange faithful.

[johnb]

Can't wait to see Stanford's campus, and can't wait to see Duke go to 2-0. Both will be firsts for me. I'm also hitting the Dodgers-Giants game earlier in the day and hope that my blue and white Duke apparel doesn't get me in any trouble with the black-and-orange faithful.

Both are beautiful venues. My hunch is that the group will be less hostile than if you were wearing Duke gear at a Kentucky or UConn football game.

[mkline09]

At the top end of their rankings, Oklahoma beat UTEP by 17, while Alabama beat Michigan by 4 touchdowns. Their interpretation: moving previously #4 OU ahead of previously #3 Bama, and bumping Michigan UP from 9 to 5.

Louisville beat Kentucky (which is ranked 1 below us) by 18, and their rank soared from 29 to 10.

Boise State lost a game and jumped from 25 to 11.

Georgia won a game by 3 touchdowns and dropped from 6 to 17.

Carolina beat Elon and jumped from 30 to 18.

West Virginia won by 5 touchdowns and dropped from 10 to 25.

TCU didn't play and dropped from 16 to 30.

Navy lost by 40 points and moved up from 39 to 37.

Baylor won by 5 touchdowns and dropped from 28 to 39.

Kansas State won by 6 touchdowns and dropped from 22 to 52.

Miami (OH) lost by 46 points and moved up from 69 to 61, thereby remaining ahead of Miami (FL), which beat BC by 9.

At least we're going in the right direction

Ridiculous ranks. Carolina beat Elon, and not even a decent Elon team as they lost pretty much their entire team from last year. But whatever. Can't control it, so all Duke should focus on is winning. I think it will take a maximum effort, but I think they could beat Stanford unless what we saw from Duke and Stanford this week was an adoration.

[Wander]

I wouldn't call this the most important game in Duke's recent history, because if we lose, it's not that big of a deal - it's a road game against a ranked team.

But, think about the implications of a win here. Our next games are a home game against NC Central, who's very new to Division 1, and a home game against Memphis, who went 2-10 last year and just lost their home opener to a Division 1-AA team. After that is Wake Forest. This is in no way a guarantee game for Duke given the nightmares Wake has given us - however, they just squeaked by their 1-AA opponent, and in our hypothetical universe, Duke is 4-0 and would be solidly favored against a probable 2-2 Wake team. Then is a home game against Virginia, before the schedule gets really brutal.

I know this sounds like I'm getting way ahead of myself, but if Duke can pull the upset, it's a realistic possibility that we'll end up in the national rankings and one of the last 10-15 undefeated teams in college football, just because of the way the schedule sets up. That's a gigantic if, but still... it's hard to imagine a better time for the program to have a big victory.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I wouldn't call this the most important game in Duke's recent history, because if we lose, it's not that big of a deal - it's a road game against a ranked team.

But, think about the implications of a win here. Our next games are a home game against NC Central, who's very new to Division 1, and a home game against Memphis, who went 2-10 last year and just lost their home opener to a Division 1-AA team. After that is Wake Forest. This is in no way a guarantee game for Duke given the nightmares Wake has given us - however, they just squeaked by their 1-AA opponent, and in our hypothetical universe, Duke is 4-0 and would be solidly favored against a probable 2-2 Wake team. Then is a home game against Virginia, before the schedule gets really brutal.

I know this sounds like I'm getting way ahead of myself, but if Duke can pull the upset, it's a realistic possibility that we'll end up in the national rankings and one of the last 10-15 undefeated teams in college football, just because of the way the schedule sets up. That's a gigantic if, but still... it's hard to imagine a better time for the program to have a big victory.

I LIKE your way of thinking!
LET'S GO DUKE! BEAT STANFORD!

[Sir Stealth]

Ridiculous ranks. Carolina beat Elon, and not even a decent Elon team as they lost pretty much their entire team from last year. But whatever. Can't control it, so all Duke should focus on is winning. I think it will take a maximum effort, but I think they could beat Stanford unless what we saw from Duke and Stanford this week was an adoration.

I'm fairly certain the rankings are based on a computer formula and are not subjective. Not saying this makes them worth anything, but you'd expect to see things that don't really fit with how the teams should subjectively be ranked, especially this early in the season.

[sagegrouse]

I'm fairly certain the rankings are based on a computer formula and are not subjective. Not saying this makes them worth anything, but you'd expect to see things that don't really fit with how the teams should subjectively be ranked, especially this early in the season.

It is naturally appealing to have a results-based ranking system: Who beat whom? By what margin? Home, away or neutral? Last week or at the beginning of the season?

Problem is, ya gotta stoke the fire to get it burning. At the beginning of the season such systems are bereft of actual results. I suppose such rankings start with last year's end-of-season rankings and adjust scores based on gains and losses of players.

Then, as new results are available, they are averaged in. Maybe each new week gets 20-25 percent of the total ranking, until halfway through the season, rankings are based on actual results not preseason suppositions.

Pomeroy faces the same problem. His results don't really mean anything until about Christmas, but his fans and subscribers want season-long ratings. So, well, he comes up with something to fill the void until he has enough actual results to achieve meaningful ratings.

Early in the season, I would probably pay more attention to polls. It's later in the season when the computer rankings and scores acquire some meaning.

sagegrouse
'I have no problem with Duke being rated very low. If I were in the rating business, I might say, "Cutcliffe is a very good coach, and Duke has some real talent for a change, but I'm not going to give the Devils any credit until they actually win some games."'

[johnb]

Football polls and rankings are a big mess. If football coaches are voting, they are voting almost exclusively on teams they haven't seen. My impression is that coaches watch only games that involve teams they intend to play; not only is their own team playing at roughly the same time as all of the other teams in the country, they just don't have the time to watch the 40-50 games each week that involve potential top 25 teams. I'd assume that reporters are equally as limited--if they aren't writing up the game, how many of the other games could they watch? So they vote the way I'd vote: look at the scores, last week's polls, and layer in my bias in favor (or against) certain teams, conferences, and regions. And that's what they tend to do, when they're not simply handing the poll to an assistant to fill out.

Of course, the biggest problem to me is that an early-season loser, like a Michigan, could win the rest of their games (and they might) and would still probably not be eligible for a national championship game. The overall body of work should count for something, but I'm still in favor of an 8 team playoff, which would make the whole season crucial for several dozen teams that could be up for that top 8 grouping...

[roywhite]

Some of us can remember following the Blue Devils when they went to Palo Alto in 1971.

Duke 9 -- Stanford 3, from goduke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205265347)

Ernie Jackson had the key play; wow, was he fast.

[hq2]

Some of us can remember following the Blue Devils when they went to Palo Alto in 1971.

Duke 9 -- Stanford 3, from goduke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205265347)

Ernie Jackson had the key play; wow, was he fast.

A memorable game; the high point of one of Duke's better seasons (Note they weren't usually that great back then, either!). Get's brought up every time Duke and Stanford play football. Hasn't been repeated since then, however.

[subzero02]

The money is going on Stanford early.... I just got Duke +16. Go Devils!!

[Edouble]

Worth remembering that Luck wasn't the only Cardinal player to go early in the draft. They lost DeCastro and Martin from the offensive line and Fleener, a quality TE.

Much better to play them now than a month from now, when the new guys at those positions are farther along in getting acclimated.

Farther along? Are they transferring to UCLA?

[Olympic Fan]

Some of us can remember following the Blue Devils when they went to Palo Alto in 1971.

Duke 9 -- Stanford 3, from goduke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205265347)

Ernie Jackson had the key play; wow, was he fast.

The video has a nice replay of Jackson's interception return for the game's only touchdown, but there was a lot more to the upset than that.

Duke started the season with a victory over Florida in a game played in Tampa. The Gators weren't ranked, but they still very good -- they were led by All-America quarerback John Reaves, who would finish the season as the NCAA's all-time leading passer. Ironically, his favorite target -- All-American WR Carlos Alvarez, who had beaten Duke the year before with a punt return, was starting his first year at Duke Law (he led the Law School team to the flag football championship, beating my frat in the finals).

The Duke-Florida game didn't have a single TD - Duke won 12-6 as Dave Wright, a refugee from the soccer team, kicked a school record four field goals.

Duke came home and upset No. 19 South Carolina in Wade Stadium, 28-12 ... and then went to Virginia and rooted the Hoos (who were not very good in that era) 28-0.

Duke climbed to No. 19 in the AP poll and set up the game with No. 10 Stanford. But the very night the poll came out, disaster -- Steve Jones, who was probably the greatest running back in modern Duke history (I leave out the single wing guys, to avoid an argument) was injured in an auto accident and was ruled out of the trip. He was Duke's whole offense in the first three games.

Stanford had won the 1971 Rose Bowl behind QB Jim Plunkett. Plunkett had graduated, but they had a strong replacement in Don Bunce. He was a cocky guy -- the day before the game, he told a sports luncheon crowd that Stanford would beat Duke by "something like 42-0." But Duke -- in Mike McGree's first year had a GREAT defense. And they stifled Stanford's passing game. As the clip shows, Ernie Jackson returned an interception for the game's only TD and Wright added a field goal for the 9-3 win.

BTW, Stanford went on to repeat as Pac Eight champs and to play in the Rose Bowl again.

Duke 4-0 climbed to No. 14 in the nation. But the injuries started to mount. Wright was hurt in practice the next week and was unable to kick when Duke met Clemson in the mud of the Oyster Bowl (a high school field chewed up the night before in Norfolk). Duke was inside the Clemson 20 seven times that day and went scoreless, losing 3-0. They came back to rout NC State and Bobby Bowden's West Virginia team, but even with a bunch of payers going two ways - Jackson became the team's starting tailback as well as an All-American CB; three-time All-ACC sadety Rich Searl stated a game at QB; future pro Ed Newman played OT and DT -- Duke stumbled to a 2-5 finish after the Stanford game.

It was a sad end to the seasn. But the Stanford win was sweet!

BTW: That's the last time Duke has beaten a ranked team on the road.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

But the very night the poll came out, disaster -- Steve Jones, who was probably the greatest running back in modern Duke history (I leave out the single wing guys, to avoid an argument) was injured in an auto accident and was ruled out of the trip. He was Duke's whole offense in the first three games.

Jones WAS the entire offense in 1972. But the offensive playbook of Mike McGee was limited to
Jones to the right,
Jones to the left,
Jones up the middle
and...
Jones punts.

[WakeDevil]

What is the viewing situation with ESPN eliminating games on ESPN3? Will it be available on satellite at a sports bar?

[Bob Green]

The San Jose Mercury News has grades posted for Cal, San Jose State and Stanford:

http://www.mercurynews.com/cal-bears/ci_21461414/college-football-grades-cal-san-jose-state-and

The Cardinal received a C+ with the following line jumping out at me:


The pass rush was spotty, and the pass defense was terrible.

[Jim3k]

The San Jose Mercury News has grades posted for Cal, San Jose State and Stanford:

http://www.mercurynews.com/cal-bears/ci_21461414/college-football-grades-cal-san-jose-state-and

The Cardinal received a C+ with the following line jumping out at me:

They also said that Stanford should be able to dominate the line of scrimmage.

If so, they should win; if not, we should win. I like our chances, but I don't have a real clue about line comparisons--who's bigger, quicker, taller, etc.

[Bob Green]

They also said that Stanford should be able to dominate the line of scrimmage.

Yep, they did. But I opted to ignore everything in the article I didn't like and focus upon Stanford's lousy pass defense. :cool:

[Jim3k]

Yep, they did. But I opted to ignore everything in the article I didn't like and focus upon Stanford's lousy pass defense. :cool:

I'll give you a first hand report, Bob. :D

[Teton Jack]

I remember that Stanford - Duke game where we won 9 to 3, but I also remember the return game the following year in Durham. We dominated the game but couldn't kick extra points or field goals. Wright had left the team when Coach McGee wouldn't give him a scholarship. What a heartbreaking game!

[watzone]

Here is a view from the Stanford side and an excellent read. http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/09/know-the-opponent-stanford-cardinal-scouting-report/ BDN will cover the game in person. Neither the Herald or rhe N & O are sending anyone here nor are other sites. Also worth noting is that Duke SID's are trying to talk the Pac 12 network into a better feed and or help get the game to where fans can watch it.

[CameronBornAndBred]

What is the viewing situation with ESPN eliminating games on ESPN3? Will it be available on satellite at a sports bar?

From this article, DirecTV is out.


Duke-Stanford live TV dubiousThe Pac-12 Networks holds exclusive rights to the Duke-Stanford game, which means it likely won’t be available in North Carolina.
The national version of the Pac-12 Network, available on Time Warner Cable but not on satellite services such as DirecTV or Dish Network, will be showing Wisconsin at Oregon State. The Duke-Stanford game is available on Pac-12 Network Bay Area, which is currently limited to California distribution.
http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/20027962/article-Blue-Devils-far-from-complacent-after-victory

[75Crazie]

I remember that Stanford - Duke game where we won 9 to 3, but I also remember the return game the following year in Durham. We dominated the game but couldn't kick extra points or field goals. Wright had left the team when Coach McGee wouldn't give him a scholarship. What a heartbreaking game!
I remember a lot of quotes that season referencing "kickers" and "streetcars". McGee was definitely old-school.

[Olympic Fan]

Dave Wright and Mike McGee never got along.

McGee was an old-school, hard-nosed football coach. He liked short hair on his kids and a "Yessir ... Nosir" attitude.

Wright was a free spirit -- almost a hippie, who wore his hair long and fuzzy (it was almost like a white Afro). He was also a soccer player, not a football player. He wanted to kick, period. But McGee thought that kickers should be players as they were in his era, so he insisted that Wright work on the scout team as a wide receiver. The week after the Stanford game, Wright got hurt while working at wide receiver. That injury cost Duke the Clemson game the next week ... and probably the Navy game a couple of weeks later. As noted above, McGee did not offer Wright a scholarship after the season, so Wright, who kicked the first 50-yard field goal in Duke history (as well as the four field goals against Florida) didn't return to the team.

McGee was questioned about that by Bob Heller, who was sports editor of the Chronicle. McFee's response was "Kickers are like streetcars ... you miss one and another comes along in a few minutes."

Teton Jack is right, kicking DID become a nightmare in 1972. Duke kicked one field goal all season and that was a 20-yarder against Navy in the same Oyster Bowl where Wright's absence had hurt so much in '71. That team also missed a ton of extra points. The lack of a field goal kicker cost that 5-6 team at least two games (the Stanford gme in Durham and a 9-7 loss to Wake Forest). It could have been more -- Duke's inability to kick had a big impact on a 20-14 loss to Georgia Tech and in the 14-0 game against North Carolina -- that game was 0-0 with 10 minutes to play after Duke had missed a number of chances to score. If Duke kicks a couple of field goals early, it totally changes he complextion of that game.

I'll say this for McGee -- he learned his lesson. He went out and recruited a pure kicker named Dave Malechek, who started out pretty good as a true freshman in 1973 (the first year freshmen could play varsity ball), until his confidence was shot by a blatantly crooked call that cost us the game at Georgia Tech. When he collapsed, McGee went out and recruited juco kicker Vince Fusco, who was one of the great kickers in Duke history.

But his obstinance about Wright cost him a chance to get his first two years at Duke off to a roaring start. Instead of 6-5, 5-6, Duke coulod have easily been 8-3, 8-3 with a healthy Wright.

[Bob Green]

Here is a link to an article in the San Francisco Gate:

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Offensive-line-just-1-of-Stanford-s-woes-3839976.php


This was not the same Cardinal offensive line that could impose its will on defensive fronts over the past few years.

This week is going to be a huge, huge test for our defensive line. The Stanford O-line will be bigger and stronger than we faced against FIU; however, Stanford doesn't have a running back as talented as Kedrick Rhodes so hopefully our defense can be physical and force the Cardinal to throw the ball.

[awhom111]

Here is a link to an article in the San Francisco Gate:

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Offensive-line-just-1-of-Stanford-s-woes-3839976.php



This week is going to be a huge, huge test for our defensive line. The Stanford O-line will be bigger and stronger than we faced against FIU; however, Stanford doesn't have a running back as talented as Kedrick Rhodes so hopefully our defense can be physical and force the Cardinal to throw the ball.

Is Kedrick Rhodes really more talented than Stepfan Taylor?

[Dukehky]

Doesn't the Pac 12 Network sometimes run games on like FSS? I remember watching Pac 12 games on there last year, maybe there's a new deal. Regardless, there are still ways to "watch Duke vs. Stanford football."

Type the words in quotation into your google search on Saturday at 10:30pm; you never know what you might find!!!!

[Jim3k]

Doesn't the Pac 12 Network sometimes run games on like FSS? I remember watching Pac 12 games on there last year, maybe there's a new deal. Regardless, there are still ways to "watch Duke vs. Stanford football."

This is the Pac 12 Network's first year of operation. Previously, there was a loose association of broadcasts from various feeds.

If you know of ways to view the feed, I'm sure the Duke community outside the Bay Area would love to know your secrets.

[Bob Green]

Is Kedrick Rhodes really more talented than Stepfan Taylor?

Well we are going to find out on Saturday night. I watched a replay of the FIU game on ESPN3 and the announcers said Coach Cutcliffe described Rhodes as "probably the most talented running back Duke will face this season."

[mkline09]

Here is a link to an article in the San Francisco Gate:

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Offensive-line-just-1-of-Stanford-s-woes-3839976.php



This week is going to be a huge, huge test for our defensive line. The Stanford O-line will be bigger and stronger than we faced against FIU; however, Stanford doesn't have a running back as talented as Kedrick Rhodes so hopefully our defense can be physical and force the Cardinal to throw the ball.

I can't speak to the size and strength of the Stanford O-line but FIU has a veteran o-line they started four seniors so they had experience. Again not sure about what the Stanford two-deep looks like but it sounds like they may be a bit inexperienced, though I'm sure they'll be motivated to play Duke.

[watzone]

Ross Cockrell and Jamal Wallace talk Duke at Stanford - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/09/ross-cockrell-and-jamal-wallace-talk-stanford/

The Cards return a few key players to the line up, are as strong up the middle of their defense as any team the Blue Devils will face and have good depth at the running back position. It amazed me how much people make out of their close win in that it was the first game of the season and there is improvement from week one to week two on most occasions. All the Stanford guys have done is read about their not so great opening game performance. They'll be ready. Duke has to play well early to win and get past that Pac 12 officiating;)

[andrewrorex]

Ross Cockrell and Jamal Wallace talk Duke at Stanford - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/09/ross-cockrell-and-jamal-wallace-talk-stanford/

The Cards return a few key players to the line up, are as strong up the middle of their defense as any team the Blue Devils will face and have good depth at the running back position. It amazed me how much people make out of their close win in that it was the first game of the season and there is improvement from week one to week two on most occasions. All the Stanford guys have done is read about their not so great opening game performance. They'll be ready. Duke has to play well early to win and get past that Pac 12 officiating;)

Will this game be officiated by ACC officials? I thought the visiting team's conference provided the officials and the home team's conference provided the replay officials.

[mkline09]

Thought I would share my Duke Stanford preview for those interested.

I have this game coming down to Duke's ability to make big plays and their defense's ability to keep Stanford's offense in check. They've got to tackle better and be better with third down efficiency.

http://dukesportsblog.com/2012/09/06/20120905.aspx

[jafarr1]

Absolutely need Duke to cut back on the penalties, too.

[mkline09]

Absolutely need Duke to cut back on the penalties, too.

Especially the silly ones. Two unsportsmanlike penalties hurt and could kill against Stanford.

[Bob Green]

Here is a game preview from the Mercury News:

http://mercurynews.stats.com/cfb/preview.asp?lg=CFB&g=201209080063&ref=rec&tm=63&src=CFB


"We've got Duke coming up, it's going to be a good opponent and we just want to progress," receiver Drew Terrell said. "This wasn't the way we wanted to start the season."

I enjoy reading articles from the opponent's local newspapers. Here is a SF Gate feature on Stanford Nickle Back Usua Amanam:

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Stanford-nickel-back-Amanam-standing-out-3843062.php


His six tackles included two sacks and two others for losses. He also recovered a fumble to set up the winning field goal.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Here is a game preview from the Mercury News:

http://mercurynews.stats.com/cfb/preview.asp?lg=CFB&g=201209080063&ref=rec&tm=63&src=CFB



I enjoy reading articles from the opponent's local newspapers. Here is a SF Gate feature on Stanford Nickle Back Usua Amanam:

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Stanford-nickel-back-Amanam-standing-out-3843062.php

His six tackles included two sacks and two others for losses. He also recovered a fumble to set up the winning field goal.
Renfree and Co. have done a really good job of avoiding sacks. He's smart about getting the ball away if he has to, and up front our guys have done a nice job of protecting him. Let's hope that continues Saturday.

[watzone]

Here is a Duke at Stanford game preview for this weekend - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/09/bdn-previews-dukes-trip-to-21-stanford/ There is more talk on the issue of watching the game on TV than the game itself in many circles. Duke has a golden opportunity to take a leap forward but win or lose, this team is improved and considering how banged up they are, we are starting to see progress.

[jafarr1]

Amazing how much better the offense looks when the offensive line is seasoned and healthy.

Now, about that defensive line...

[luvdahops]

Well we are going to find out on Saturday night. I watched a replay of the FIU game on ESPN3 and the announcers said Coach Cutcliffe described Rhodes as "probably the most talented running back Duke will face this season."

They are totally different types of players. Taylor is more of a physical, between the tackles runner, though he hits holes quickly and is a very good receiver and blocker. Rhodes is more of a "scat back", relying more on speed and elusiveness, and with the ability to turn any play into big gain.

[BigWayne]

I will be there in the Duke section, but not the $68/head tailgate meal. I assume it includes beer and/or liquor. If I were to try to drink $136 (underage son going with me) worth of liquor, I don't think I would see the game.

[Bob Green]

Here is a link to an audio interview of Coach Cutcliffe by David Glenn over at the ACC Sports Journal:

http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/2012090613357/david-glenn-chats-with-david-cutcliffe-september-7.php

He extensively discusses the blocked field goal that Ross Cockrell ran back for a touchdown.

EDIT: Oh yeah, he talks about the travel schedule and team plans for playing at Stanford as well.

EDIT #2: This is kind of a fluff article but it is entertaining:

http://www.mercurynews.com/stanford-cardinal/ci_21491175/stanford-football-opponents-have-lots-share


"He's my mentor,'' said MacIntyre, who was an assistant on Cutcliffe's staff before taking the San Jose State job in Dec. '09. "I talk to him once a week.''

And?

"We probably talked a little more this week.''

[airowe]

Time Warner will now show the game in the triangle on Channel 519 live if you have the sports pass. Read more here: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205681476&DB_OEM_ID=4200

I called around to Durham bars to see if they'll show the game.
Tyler's: NO
Tobacco Road: NO
Charlie's: Maybe (Owner has to look into getting Sports Pass)
Satisfaction's: YES

[-bdbd]

I look at this one as an "opportunity" game. On paper Duke should lose, so a loss is a surprise to noone; but a win could really turn some heads. I hope that the players view it as an OPPORTUNITY as well. This could be just the sort of surprise win that goes a long way to turning around an attitude/program. Lots to gain and little to lose. I like it.

:D

At a minimum, I want to see a well-played Duke side and a competitive outcome. Even if we lose, that would help garner some positive attention. Maybe impact some West Coast recruiting...

[Duke of Nashville]

Let's Go Duke! The spread was -15 for Stanford last I checked. I say we beat that. I hope for a win, dont get me wrong. Although I am looking for a signature ACC win this would be a huge win for the Blue Devils. If we stay consistant on both sides of the ball we will have a shot at the end. We will need a few big plays and the ball to tumble in our favor.

Stanford certainly won't be overlooking us after giving them all they could handle for a half last year. I see us as having improved from last year and Stanford about the same talent (obviously not at the QB spot).

Here's to a hard earned victory. Everyone could use it...

[Olympic Fan]

To me, this is a fun situation: If Duke goes to Stanford and wins, it's the biggest victory for the program this century -- certainly the biggest since 1994 (the last time Duke beat a ranked team) and maybe the biggest since 1971 (the last time Duke beat a ranked team on the road).

It would be a HUGE step towards accomplishing our primary goal this season -- get to six wins and qualify for a bowl.

On the other hand, a loss would not really impact that goal -- none of my realistic scenarios to get to six wins include a victory at Stanford. Take a loss and we shrug and move on ... we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Like I said, fun

It's kind of like the opposite of the next two weeks. Against NCCU and Memphis, we HAVE to win. I think we will win both games, but a loss in either would be crushing. Those games are nothing to win situations. We have to win to be in position to make the Wake and Virginia games that follow mean something.

I'll enjoy tonight's game. I hope and expect Duke to be competitive, but won't be upset if things don't go our way. The only thing that will really crush me will be if we have the game won and let it get away (like several recent Wake games).

PS I do have one concern ... do we take ACC refs or use the Pac 10 ref?. In all of sports, the only officials I don't trust to be fair and honest are from the Pac 12. You might find incompetents from other leagues (and certainly from the ACC), but I believe that blatant homerism is a thing of the past -- everywhere except the Pac 12.

[mkline09]

To me, this is a fun situation: If Duke goes to Stanford and wins, it's the biggest victory for the program this century -- certainly the biggest since 1994 (the last time Duke beat a ranked team) and maybe the biggest since 1971 (the last time Duke beat a ranked team on the road).

It would be a HUGE step towards accomplishing our primary goal this season -- get to six wins and qualify for a bowl.

On the other hand, a loss would not really impact that goal -- none of my realistic scenarios to get to six wins include a victory at Stanford. Take a loss and we shrug and move on ... we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Like I said, fun

It's kind of like the opposite of the next two weeks. Against NCCU and Memphis, we HAVE to win. I think we will win both games, but a loss in either would be crushing. Those games are nothing to win situations. We have to win to be in position to make the Wake and Virginia games that follow mean something.

I'll enjoy tonight's game. I hope and expect Duke to be competitive, but won't be upset if things don't go our way. The only thing that will really crush me will be if we have the game won and let it get away (like several recent Wake games).

I think the key if Duke loses, is how do they lose. I think they need to be competitive for a good chunk of the game to keep the confidence up and avoid more injuries. That being said, I think Duke has a great shot to sneak out a win if they can keep it close. The longer the game stays tight the bigger advantage Duke has. Stanford will start playing tight and doubt will creep into their minds. For Duke the confidence will just grow. If this game is tight I like Duke's chances.

[mgtr]

The Pac-12 struck a deal with DISH network. Most immediately, this means that if you have DISH, or a friend has DISH, or a sports bar has DISH, you can see the game tonight. Unknown why Directv was left at the starting gate, but we will see down the road what happens.

[mkline09]

The Pac-12 struck a deal with DISH network. Most immediately, this means that if you have DISH, or a friend has DISH, or a sports bar has DISH, you can see the game tonight. Unknown why Directv was left at the starting gate, but we will see down the road what happens.

Well my self-centered answer to that is because I have Direct TV so that is why they won't bring it.

[mgtr]

Well my self-centered answer to that is because I have Direct TV so that is why they won't bring it.

Yes, I have Directv as well. Maybe if I stare at a blank screen and wish real hard ...

[duke79]

The Pac-12 struck a deal with DISH network. Most immediately, this means that if you have DISH, or a friend has DISH, or a sports bar has DISH, you can see the game tonight. Unknown why Directv was left at the starting gate, but we will see down the road what happens.

I actually DO have DISH network at home. Do you know what channel the game will be on?

Thanks

[Acymetric]

I actually DO have DISH network at home. Do you know what channel the game will be on?

Thanks

Should be on Channel 445 (although I don't have DISH so I can't confirm that).

[budwom]

You might want to confirm the dish recipient has the PAC 12 Bay Area feed, as the regular feed is showing something else.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Well my self-centered answer to that is because I have Direct TV so that is why they won't bring it.

Well, the CAL AD had Directv, and told them that if they didn't get the PAC-12 games she'd change to Comcast. She posted the video on YouTube.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/college-football-rapidreports/19998605/no-pac-12-network,-no-problem:-cal-ad-drops-directv-in-very-public-fashion

The Oregon Duck's video, shown below the one mentioned, is pretty cool too! :cool:

I ordered the TWC Sports Pass package 30 minutes ago, and it should be active on my system now. I'll cancel it tomorrow, so my 2-day cost will be ~$0.40, there is no set up fee.

[diveonthefloor]

Can't believe this thread isn't a mile long. Gametime in 30 minutes!! GO DEVILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[graybead]

I have DISH Network, but don't see it listed anywhere. I have the PAC12 network on channel 413, but it says OK St. @ Arizona is at 10:30 PM. If anyone knows where to find it on DISH or an online feed, I'd love to watch it.

[Acymetric]

I have DISH Network, but don't see it listed anywhere. I have the PAC12 network on channel 413, but it says OK St. @ Arizona is at 10:30 PM. If anyone knows where to find it on DISH or an online feed, I'd love to watch it.

Channel 445 I believe. One of the overflow channels. Of course, I don't have DISH so I can't verify that.

[diveonthefloor]

Does Goduke offer PPV?

[SharkD]

How long has SnrubChat been offline?

[wandalee]

If you have Dish, go to channel 445. Game is on!!!

[Dukehky]

DIdn't want to break any rules!!!

[Dukehky]

Not a great start...

[Mabdul Doobakus]

What are the site rules on posting online streams? Cause I found one.

EDIT: Nevermind...same one as posted above.

[graybead]

If you have Dish, go to channel 445. Game is on!!!

I don't even see 445. Even if I show all channels, it goes from 413 to 455. :(

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Well, early on it doesn't look like we can hang with these guys at all.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Defense has let up some big plays, but has done a good job keeping them out of the end zone at least. A lof of good QB pressure on that last stand in the red zone. Offense looks quite limited. Be nice to see us attempt a pass over 2 yards at some point.

[75Crazie]

Well, early on it doesn't look like we can hang with these guys at all.
After all, this is Duke football we're talking about. I mean come on ... 6-0? Bowl bid?

[MattC09]

Can anyone guess Kurt Roper's favorite thing on his school's playground is?

The swingset...

Also, that was a garbage pass interference call there.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I really don't understand this offensive game plan. We look terrible in all phases of the game, but you're not even giving yourselves a chance to win if you just throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage on every single play.

[uh_no]

I really don't understand this offensive game plan. We look terrible in all phases of the game, but you're not even giving yourselves a chance to win if you just throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage on every single play.

Mostly because we can't get renfree any time...sometimes its either dump it off or take a sack...

[g-money]

I really don't understand this offensive game plan. We look terrible in all phases of the game, but you're not even giving yourselves a chance to win if you just throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage on every single play.

Coach Cut's play calling is truly uncanny this evening. Is there any sort of known record for the number of swing passes thrown in a college football game? I would bet that we are on course to shatter it by a wide margin.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Mostly because we can't get renfree any time...sometimes its either dump it off or take a sack...

I agree that's been a factor on a handful of plays, but most of these have seemed designed.

[loran16]

Against a superior opponent, you have to take risks - go for higher reward plays, because even low risk plays aren't likely to do much.

Roper and Cut have instead managed to play ultra conservative, not take a shot downfield (or even past 5-6 yards in the air) for 25 minutes. Abominable playcalling. Duke's down 23-3, and it's at least 50% on the coaching staff, who decided instead of taking a chance, no matter how slim, they weren't going to try.

[throatybeard]

This is gruesome. At least last year, we stayed competitive thought the first half.

Why in hell is Stanford wearing black?

[Acymetric]

This is gruesome. At least last year, we stayed competitive thought the first half.

Why in hell is Stanford wearing black?

Roper's funeral?

[-bdbd]

I am "watching" on ESPN College Football Gamecast... Probably good I couldn't see more than just the "highlights" they are showing.

Geeez! How do you give up 50 points to a team that doesn't even WANT to run up the score. And we still have 12 minutes to go! Ugh! Lots of bad coaching decisions, very conservative offense, and doesn't seem the D can stop them at all. Arrrgh! Very frustrating. I sure hope the softer part of the schedule, the next couple of weeks, gets us re-energized and refocused!!



:mad:

[dubldvman]

I am "watching" on ESPN College Football Gamecast... Probably good I couldn't see more than just the "highlights" they are showing.

Geeez! How do you give up 50 points to a team that doesn't even WANT to run up the score. And we still have 12 minutes to go! Ugh! Lots of bad coaching decisions, very conservative offense, and doesn't seem the D can stop them at all. Arrrgh! Very frustrating. I sure hope the softer part of the schedule, the next couple of weeks, gets us re-energized and refocused!!



:mad: I am a Duke fan since my undergrad days in the 80s. Football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, you name it. Have stayed for every last minute of many, many losses at Wallace Wade during the past 3 decades. And I also am positive about all things Duke. Positive is not the same as optimistic when it comes to football. I am a realist about Duke football and Duke football is completely consistent and predictable.

-We beat FIU and the message was "we are much improved and other teams are taking notice."
-We lose badly to Stanford and the message will be "this was a measuring stick-back to the drawing board."
-We will beat both Central and Memphis, go 3-1, and the message will be " we are improving-this isnt the same Duke as previous years"
-We will then lose to Wake in W-S again and the message will be "we are so close to turning the corner."
-We will come home in our "make or break game" and lose to Virginia, our crowds will go to below 20000 for remainder of season except when baby blue invades and we become the visiting team and our Coach (who I truly like as much as any we have had) will talk about how proud he is of the players for their heart and commitment and, by then, we will also have significant injuries and lack of depth which will for the most part let the team and coaches off the hook.

You can go back and you will see these same season "spins" in virtually all seasons with the exception of three Spurrier years. And for the vast majority of the Duke family the way our football season goes after the second week or so in October will be irrelevant because it will be Countdown to Craziness time.

I write all of this because I used to let myself get so disappointed during the season-I mean for years-and autumns are so much more pleasant now that I understand a pattern that is as predictable as the Harvest Moon.

But will I be at the NC Central game next week cheering as loudly as anyone? You betcha. And Proud As Always to Be A Blue Devil. Go Duke!

[Acymetric]

I am a Duke fan since my undergrad days in the 80s. Football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, you name it. Have stayed for every last minute of many, many losses at Wallace Wade during the past 3 decades. And I also am positive about all things Duke. Positive is not the same as optimistic when it comes to football. I am a realist about Duke football and Duke football is completely consistent and predictable.

-We beat FIU and the message was "we are much improved and other teams are taking notice."
-We lose badly to Stanford and the message will be "this was a measuring stick-back to the drawing board."
-We will beat both Central and Memphis, go 3-1, and the message will be " we are improving-this isnt the same Duke as previous years"
-We will then lose to Wake in W-S again and the message will be "we are so close to turning the corner."
-We will come home in our "make or break game" and lose to Virginia, our crowds will go to below 20000 for remainder of season except when baby blue invades and we become the visiting team and our Coach (who I truly like as much as any we have had) will talk about how proud he is of the players for their heart and commitment and, by then, we will also have significant injuries and lack of depth which will for the most part let the team and coaches off the hook.

You can go back and you will see these same season "spins" in virtually all seasons with the exception of three Spurrier years. And for the vast majority of the Duke family the way our football season goes after the second week or so in October will be irrelevant because it will be Countdown to Craziness time.

I write all of this because I used to let myself get so disappointed during the season-I mean for years-and autumns are so much more pleasant now that I understand a pattern that is as predictable as the Harvest Moon.

But will I be at the NC Central game next week cheering as loudly as anyone? You betcha. And Proud As Always to Be A Blue Devil. Go Duke!

I don't think there is any reason to see wins over Central and Memphis as signs of turning the corner unless we win by more than 60 in both games. These are teams we might have been favored to beat when we had Roof.

[BigWayne]

One of the first big cheers in the Duke section was for the play reversal that resulted in us having an incomplete pass instead of giving up an interception. There was also a big cheer for a 5 yard penalty on Stanford. It was extremely ugly.

[Jim3k]

True, but given the lack of decent plays until Crowder's 51 yard pass reception, that's all there was.

As for the reason Duke lost, it appeared to me that their defense was quicker overall; and our defense missed many first contact tackles. Plus, Cut didn't seem too interested in testing their interior defense. There were a lot of east-west plays and not enough north-south plays. And, my impression was that Renfree usually had enough time, though the left side of their defensive line was able to slip blocks fairly easily and blow up some plays. Even so, I expected a lot more from our offensive line. They often couldn't hold their blocks.

I will give Cut some credit for the double pass effort, though it didn't reall work out and for the onside kick which we didn't recover.

I will also say that Stanford receivers were kind of lucky (thought they made their own luck) on the two TD passes which were essentially intercepted. The problem was that each time the offense and defense caught the balls simultaneously. The simultaneous catch rule means a TD for the offense. But both those receivers were bigger than the Duke defender and kind of caught the ball an instant before the defensive back latched on.

I want to comment, though, on Monday's punting. After Terrell's run-back for the TD where Monday out kicked his coverage, he began aiming for the sidelines. For all but one, he was pretty effective; several were inside the 25. His kicks were in the right area for going out of bounds or trapping the receiver against the sidelines. This guy is a very good punter. And Terrell is a really good kick returner and wideout who needed to be contained.

[davekay1971]

A disheartening loss, but time to move on, and quickly. The next 3 games are all very important. We should win the next 2 comfortably. I'm looking to see a team that performs well on both sides of the ball and shows determination to put away teams that we should beat, early and decisively.

Then comes Wake in W-S, which is our annual bugaboo. Win that, and we should be 4-1, with 7 games to pull out 2 wins to make us bowl eligible. Lose to Wake, and it's definitely going to feel like wayyyy too many similarities to previous years...3-2 but with a very challenging schedule for the remainder of the year, and a tough road to get to 6 wins.

Wake in W-S is tough...just ask the UNC AFAM Studies Department Tarheels. A win over Wake, in W-S, would be a big win for this team and a huge step toward bowl eligibility.

[Bob Green]

It was ugly. I quit watching at the end of the 3rd quarter. We were 0-9 on 3rd down with 5 yards rushing at halftime. Those two stats tell the story. We need to put this one in the rear view mirror and move on - next game.

[Udaman]

Games like this are so maddening.

Look - everyone knows that we are not Alabama, or LSU, or Nebraska, or even Notre Dame. We don't have the size, speed, or talent of those teams. So how do you win in college football given that? Well, you either get a superstar player to come out of nowhere, or you run some kind of gimmick offense that can confuse and trick college defenders (even good ones). The nice thing about the latter, is that if it results in you scoring lots of points you can better recruit the former. The other thing you do is realize that you are not one of those elite teams and actually take chances.

Gut didn't do that at all yesterday.

To start the game, we get the ball and it's 4th an 1. We are on the road against a top 25 team.....YOU GO FOR IT THERE. Doing that sends the signal that you are playing to win. Instead....we punt, and Stanford returns the punt for a TD.

OK, so now's it's 7-0. We get the ball back again....and it's 4th and 1....and we punt again. Now, I realize that this year we have a tremendous punter. But our defense is not our strength....and we gave the ball back and they marched down and kicked a FG (in 7 plays I might add).

OK, so maybe, must maybe you say that with our punter this was at least acceptable (though I strongly disagree). What happens next? We get the ball, punt on 4th and 8. Stanford gets it and goes three and out, we get it back....and it's 4th an 1....AND WE PUNT THE STUPID BALL? That is playing coward football (or at best playing with the idea that we can beat Stanford, on the road, playing like a normal team, when we are down 10 already). Stanford moves 60 yards in 7 plays and kicks another FG. Down 13-0 with no first downs yet. The game was over at that point.

I would rather see us try and get blown out, then play like we are a top 15 team and look completely outmatched....even with the best punter on the field.

[TruBlu]

Against a superior opponent, you have to take risks - go for higher reward plays, because even low risk plays aren't likely to do much.

Roper and Cut have instead managed to play ultra conservative, not take a shot downfield (or even past 5-6 yards in the air) for 25 minutes. Abominable playcalling. Duke's down 23-3, and it's at least 50% on the coaching staff, who decided instead of taking a chance, no matter how slim, they weren't going to try.

So tired of this playcalling! Blame goes to Roper (for the calls), and to Cut (for keeping/enabling Roper). No blame to the QB's, as these sideways pass plays were mostly designed plays, and were not check-downs.

Gotta admit that my observations are based on watching only the first half. In a rare moment of better sense for a diehard Duke fan, I decided sleeping was preferable to watching the game.

[DownEastDevil]

I ordered the TWC Sports Pass package 30 minutes ago, and it should be active on my system now. I'll cancel it tomorrow, so my 2-day cost will be ~$0.40, there is no set up fee.


I did this too and it could be the worst $0.40 investment I have ever made.

[75Crazie]

I'm looking to see a team that performs well on both sides of the ball and shows determination to put away teams that we should beat, early and decisively.

Then comes Wake in W-S, which is our annual bugaboo. Win that, and we should be 4-1, with 7 games to pull out 2 wins to make us bowl eligible.
Um, I'll say it again ... I cannot believe that beating NC Central will count towards the 6 game bogey. Assuming we beat Memphis, that means we somehow have to find 4 wins against league teams. Wake and UVA are slight possibilities -- no more than that ... and maybe Miami, if they lay an egg like they did yesterday. But I have w-a-a-a-a-y too much familiarity with Duke football history to give any of this any belief at all.

[Bob Green]

Um, I'll say it again ... I cannot believe that beating NC Central will count towards the 6 game bogey. Assuming we beat Memphis, that means we somehow have to find 4 wins against league teams. Wake and UVA are slight possibilities -- no more than that ... and maybe Miami, if they lay an egg like they did yesterday. But I have w-a-a-a-a-y too much familiarity with Duke football history to give any of this any belief at all.

It is a fact that beating NCCU will count toward the six wins required to qualify to participate in a bowl game. However, no one can make you believe it.

EDIT: Bowl Eligibility Requirements (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8228544/ncaa-new-bowl-game-tiebreakers-include-fcs-wins-5-7-teams)

[75Crazie]

OK, I guess I stand corrected. However, the rest of my post stands. Even if Duke gets 6 wins total (which I think would be a huge upset), if those 6 include a win against Central, I would submit that Duke would be at the very bottom of the total of 6-win teams for consideration. Six wins might make you eligible for a bowl ... but it doesn't guarantee it.

[davekay1971]

Um, I'll say it again ... I cannot believe that beating NC Central will count towards the 6 game bogey. Assuming we beat Memphis, that means we somehow have to find 4 wins against league teams. Wake and UVA are slight possibilities -- no more than that ... and maybe Miami, if they lay an egg like they did yesterday. But I have w-a-a-a-a-y too much familiarity with Duke football history to give any of this any belief at all.

Since Bob corrected the NCCU part of the post, I'll tackle the last two sentences.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument (and sanity) that Duke gets two more wins toward bowl eligibility in the NCCU and Memphis games. That leaves 3 to go. That was always going to be tough against our schedule, but is it hopeless?

For our away games we get Wake, FSU, Va Tech, and Ga Tech. If those four teams all play reasonably well, Duke would have to consider grabbing a win at Wake and taking the other 3 as losses to be okay. FSU is a beast. Va Tech is nearly as big a beast. Ga Tech is a very good team, although not an insurmountable obstacle. Beating them at their place, however, would be a big upset. Beating Wake at WS is tough, and would be an upset win, but seems the most doable of the four.

How about our home games? Virginia, North Carolina, Clemson, and Miami. We saw yesterday that UNC has a weak secondary, and their offense is not unstoppable (although it's pretty good). Our strength is in our passing game. We may match up well with the Cheaters. We'll be underdogs, but it's a winnable game. Virginia, hey, if we play well at home, we can beat them. Same with Miami, which is not the Miami of yesteryear, at least not at the moment. Clemson is a very good team, and would be a big upset if we won.

So, of our conference games, we'll probably be underdogs in all 8. But, if the team that took FIU to the woodshed can show up, even for our winnable home games, we can get 3 wins in those 8 games.

I still think the critical game is WFU. There's such a massive difference in the mental attitude of being 4-1 after a big-time conference road win, with 7 opportunities (four of them at home) to secure 2 wins, versus a team that is 3-2, winning games we should win, but not able to get over the hump, and trying to figure out how to get 3 wins out of the next 7 opportunities, when four of those opportunities (FSU, Va Tech, Ga Tech, and Clemson) look like long shots.

After WFU, the next critical game is UVa. If we lose to WFU, beating UVa becomes critical in maintaining any hope of a bowl. If we beat WFU, Duke may be the favorite welcoming UVa, and would have the opportunity to start out 5-1, with a bowl eligible season very much ours for the taking.

The NCCU and Memphis games, we have to win because we need to bounce back from the ugliness at Stanford, fix some problems, regain some confidence and NOT blow critical should-win games. But the real meat of the season is in the last week of September and first week of October. Assuming we do what we should against NCCU and Memphis, the next two weeks will decide if this really is a new year for Duke or, as you suspect, another year of the same.

[Acymetric]

OK, I guess I stand corrected. However, the rest of my post stands. Even if Duke gets 6 wins total (which I think would be a huge upset), if those 6 include a win against Central, I would submit that Duke would be at the very bottom of the total of 6-win teams for consideration. Six wins might make you eligible for a bowl ... but it doesn't guarantee it.

The ACC has 8 guaranteed bowl spots. If Duke gets 6 wins they will bowl. That said, we will not be bowling this year.

[75Crazie]

But, if the team that took FIU to the woodshed can show up, even for our winnable home games, we can get 3 wins in those 8 games.
This is the part of the conversation that I really do not understand. How does getting out-gained by over 100 yards in a game constitute a beat-down? The final score differential in that game was a benefit of FIU handing us big plays. I have yet to see, in either game, the type of consistent quality play on both sides of the ball that would allow Duke to succeed in getting to a bowl game. I just don't see a winning formula here. I'll be the first to celebrate if I am proven wrong -- but I have little expectation of that.

[Acymetric]

How about our home games? Virginia, North Carolina, Clemson, and Miami. We saw yesterday that UNC has a weak secondary, and their offense is not unstoppable (although it's pretty good). Our strength is in our passing game. We may match up well with the Cheaters. We'll be underdogs, but it's a winnable game.

Obviously we should attack their secondary with swing passes for little or no gain. That'll show 'em.

[awhom111]

This is the part of the conversation that I really do not understand. How does getting out-gained by over 100 yards in a game constitute a beat-down? The final score differential in that game was a benefit of FIU handing us big plays. I have yet to see, in either game, the type of consistent quality play on both sides of the ball that would allow Duke to succeed in getting to a bowl game. I just don't see a winning formula here. I'll be the first to celebrate if I am proven wrong -- but I have little expectation of that.

Ironically, we ended up out-gaining Stanford due to the amount of garbage time and their defense and special teams work to shorten the field or score.


True, but given the lack of decent plays until Crowder's 51 yard pass reception, that's all there was.

As for the reason Duke lost, it appeared to me that their defense was quicker overall; and our defense missed many first contact tackles. Plus, Cut didn't seem too interested in testing their interior defense. There were a lot of east-west plays and not enough north-south plays. And, my impression was that Renfree usually had enough time, though the left side of their defensive line was able to slip blocks fairly easily and blow up some plays. Even so, I expected a lot more from our offensive line. They often couldn't hold their blocks.

I will give Cut some credit for the double pass effort, though it didn't reall work out and for the onside kick which we didn't recover.

I will also say that Stanford receivers were kind of lucky (thought they made their own luck) on the two TD passes which were essentially intercepted. The problem was that each time the offense and defense caught the balls simultaneously. The simultaneous catch rule means a TD for the offense. But both those receivers were bigger than the Duke defender and kind of caught the ball an instant before the defensive back latched on.

I want to comment, though, on Monday's punting. After Terrell's run-back for the TD where Monday out kicked his coverage, he began aiming for the sidelines. For all but one, he was pretty effective; several were inside the 25. His kicks were in the right area for going out of bounds or trapping the receiver against the sidelines. This guy is a very good punter. And Terrell is a really good kick returner and wideout who needed to be contained.

Meeting you was one of the few highlights of the day. Unfortunately the Duke crowd had the air taken out of it very early on.

[davekay1971]

This is the part of the conversation that I really do not understand. How does getting out-gained by over 100 yards in a game constitute a beat-down? The final score differential in that game was a benefit of FIU handing us big plays. I have yet to see, in either game, the type of consistent quality play on both sides of the ball that would allow Duke to succeed in getting to a bowl game. I just don't see a winning formula here. I'll be the first to celebrate if I am proven wrong -- but I have little expectation of that.

Football games frequently come down to being able to make big plays and force turnovers. The fact that Duke did enough of that against FIU to record a 20 point win doesn't take away from the 20 point win at all. Making big plays (you might say FIU handing us big plays - glass half-full/half-empty I guess) and forcing turnovers is as legitimate a way to get a big win as is dominating the line of scrimmage and grinding out a 20 point win with a steady diet of 6 yard runs and impenetrable defense. Would a dominating scrimmage game and unstoppable run game and defense be more reliable? Heck, yes, wish we had it. We don't. We need big plays, and an opportunistic defense. We had neither of the above at Stanford, both of the above against FIU. Whether or not we get 6 wins depends largely on whether the team that played FIU (the one that made those big plays and had that opportunistic defense) shows up 5 more times this season in winnable games.

[mkline09]

OK, I guess I stand corrected. However, the rest of my post stands. Even if Duke gets 6 wins total (which I think would be a huge upset), if those 6 include a win against Central, I would submit that Duke would be at the very bottom of the total of 6-win teams for consideration. Six wins might make you eligible for a bowl ... but it doesn't guarantee it.

Well if Duke reaches six victories they are going to have to beat a good team to get there. There non conference scheduled is designed to get them to 3-1. Duke plays Georgia Tech, FSU, Virginia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Wake Forest, Virginia, and Miami. Non of those are exactly awful teams, though Miami looked it yesterday. So, I'm not quite sure they'll be at the very bottom.

[Olympic Fan]

Just to address a couple of issues raised in this thread:

(1) Not only does NCCU count toward bowl eligibility, I'm not going to apologize or feel ashamed if that's one of our six wins. A year ago, Wake used a victory over Gardner Webb to get to six wins ... it didn't keep them out of a bowl. In 2010, a six-win Clemson team counted its win over Presbyterian AND six-win Georgia Tech counted their win over South Carolina State. The year before that, Florida State got to six wins by counting a victory over Jacksonville State. A year before that, NC State counted William & Mary toward its six wins.

That's just in the ACC. Lots and lots of teams use FCS/1-AA wins to get to six. It got so prevelent in the SEC at one point that the NCAA had to institute the rule that only one FCS (or 1-AA if you prefer) team could count toward the six-win total. NCCU will count as much as a win over Stanford would have ... get over it.

(2) If Duke gets to six wins thanks to a victory over NCCU, we might very well be at the bottom of the bowl heap -- but I 100 percent guarantee you that we'll get a bowl. The ACC has nine bowl tieups for its 12 teams. This year North Carolina is ineligible for a bowl, so it's nine bowls for 11 teams. The ACC will place all its bowl eligible teams in bowls. The most likely destimation for a 6-win Duke team is the Military Bowl in Washington or the Kraft Fight-Hunger Bowl on San Francisco.

(3) The $1.1 million (the amount Duke would earn for a bowl trip) question is whether Duke can get to six wins. Obviously, any chance depends on winning the next two games at home over NCCU and Memphis to get to 3-1 going into what I think is the pivotal two week span -- at Wake and Virginia at home. Those are two teams we have always played dead even in the Cutcliffe era -- beating Virginia 3 of 4 and losing four straight to Wake under Cut by less than a TD. If we come out of that stretch 5-1, I will start making bowl reservations -- we'll get one more from UNC and Miami at home (I keep saying Miami will be in shambles by the time they come to Durham). Or maybe we steal one from a much better team.

If we come out of the Virginia game 4-2, I think there is still a reasonable chance. If we are 3-3 at that point ... well, it will be time to gt excited about basketball.

[Acymetric]

Is it 9 bowl tie ins? I couldn't find a complete list for this season, but I was thinking we had 9 at one point but lost one of them.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Football games frequently come down to being able to make big plays and force turnovers. The fact that Duke did enough of that against FIU to record a 20 point win doesn't take away from the 20 point win at all. Making big plays (you might say FIU handing us big plays - glass half-full/half-empty I guess) and forcing turnovers is as legitimate a way to get a big win as is dominating the line of scrimmage and grinding out a 20 point win with a steady diet of 6 yard runs and impenetrable defense. Would a dominating scrimmage game and unstoppable run game and defense be more reliable? Heck, yes, wish we had it. We don't. We need big plays, and an opportunistic defense. We had neither of the above at Stanford, both of the above against FIU. Whether or not we get 6 wins depends largely on whether the team that played FIU (the one that made those big plays and had that opportunistic defense) shows up 5 more times this season in winnable games.
The idea of focusing on making big plays as a way to win games is actually very smart. If big plays win a game, the record book doesn't indicate how the big plays happened.

[Bob Green]

I have yet to see, in either game, the type of consistent quality play on both sides of the ball that would allow Duke to succeed in getting to a bowl game. I just don't see a winning formula here. I'll be the first to celebrate if I am proven wrong -- but I have little expectation of that.

To win, Duke must score a lot of points. We are not going to win 14-10 or 17-13 type games. Coach Cutcliffe's record at Duke, in games where Duke scored 30+ points is quite good (I can't remember it off the top of my head). In order to score lots of points, Duke must throw the ball down the field. In order to be successful throwing it down the field, we must establish the run first. Against FIU, we established the run. A specific example is the TD pass to Crowder, which came after back-to-back successful running plays. The TD pass to Vernon was on 4th and 1. FIU was looking to stop the run.

Stanford dominated the line of scrimmage and shut our offense down!

[chrishoke]

Stanford dominated the line of scrimmage and shut our offense down!

Ball game.

[budwom]

I'm not surprised that we lost, but am disappointed we rolled over like dead dogs. Our bigger, deeper, more experienced OL just got whomped, and our play calling has been discussed.
I really don't see how we get to six wins without beating both UVA and Wake (and we've been thinking we'd beat Wake for about a decade without actually doing so).

I think this is a real crucial stretch in Cutcliffe's tenure. With the exception of Memphis and NCCU, we're likely to be underdogs in the rest of our games. But we're
going to have to find at least a couple more wins for Cut to make the case we're progressing as a program.

If we are lucky enough to get to six wins, you can be sure Kevin White will do whatever it takes to get us into a bowl, even if it involves buying a humongous number of tickets.

[Olympic Fan]

Is it 9 bowl tie ins? I couldn't find a complete list for this season, but I was thinking we had 9 at one point but lost one of them.

It may be a bit premature to be listing bowls, but okay, here's the ACC picking order:

(1) Orange Bowl (gets ACC champ, unless the champ is No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS and in the BCS championship game)
(2) Chick-fil-A
(3) Russell Athletic Bowl (formerly Champs)
(4) Hyundi Sun Bowl
(5) Belk Bowl (Charlotte)
(6) Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl
(7) Advocare V100 Independence Bowl
(8) Miltary Bowl (Washington DC)
(9) Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl

The last one is conditional -- the Pac 12 (which has had trouble filling this slot in recent years) and Navy -- if Navy (which just opened with a lopsided loss to Notre Dame) gets to six wins -- got those spots. If either misses, then the ACC is next in line.

There is also the chance that the ACC gets two teams in the BCS -- as happened last year. In fact, a year ago, the ACC couldn't fill all its bowl slots. That's a far more likely scenario this year with UNC out of the mix.

As I say, six wins is a long way from realty -- but if the Devils to get there, they will go bowling.

[sagegrouse]

I'm not surprised that we lost, but am disappointed we rolled over like dead dogs. Our bigger, deeper, more experienced OL just got whomped, and our play calling has been discussed.
I really don't see how we get to six wins without beating both UVA and Wake (and we've been thinking we'd beat Wake for about a decade without actually doing so).

I think this is a real crucial stretch in Cutcliffe's tenure. With the exception of Memphis and NCCU, we're likely to be underdogs in the rest of our games. But we're
going to have to find at least a couple more wins for Cut to make the case we're progressing as a program.

If we are lucky enough to get to six wins, you can be sure Kevin White will do whatever it takes to get us into a bowl, even if it involves buying a humongous number of tickets.

Here's my take:


Last night was a bummer.

We got beat b-a-a-a-d.

It was only one game.

Next play!
sagegrouse

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

We were awful. Duke football should be embarrassed by this performance. Then to make matters worse, as if they could get worse, at the end of the game it appears Coach Cut does not want to shake Stanford's Head Coach's hand. Why? What did he do? All he did was coach the team better and recruit better athletes. Ugh. The team looked as if it couldn't beat Palo Alto High School. The coaches shouldn't put this in the rear view mirror. They should do as Coach K and never forget this. It should be a reason for getting better. My goodness it is hard to be a Duke football fan.

GO DUKE!

[TruBlu]

In order to score lots of points, Duke must throw the ball down the field. In order to be successful throwing it down the field, we must establish the run first.

I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but another school of thought is that if you don't have the horses to establish the run first, you can sometimes establish the run by throwing the ball down the field.

Against FIU, we started out with runs and down field passing. Against Stanford, I could swear I was hearing "In the Mood" and other swing music when we were on offense.

[Bob Green]

I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but another school of thought is that if you don't have the horses to establish the run first, you can sometimes establish the run by throwing the ball down the field.

Thank you! I appreciate the kind words and I agree you can throw to set-up the run. I believe the intent behind our horizontal passing game is to spread out the opponent's defense in order to open up lanes, but we sure haven't achieved much success with this offensive strategy. Teams seem to know we desire to ultimately throw the ball a lot so their default approach is to defend the pass first until we force them to commit more than their front four to run defense.

The common strategy for defending Duke appears to be:

1.) Commit the front four to stopping the run
2.) Blitz often with a LB or Safety to pressure Renfree
3.) Commit six players to pass defense every play

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Funny, there was this guy (who indecently Coached Stanford along the way) who was kind of successful using the pass to setup the run. What did he know, Coach Bill Walsh's 5 Super Bowl titles and a coaching tree with many branches counts for little. All of you who insist on using the run to setup the pass must all know what you are talking about, Duke could never be successful using the pass to setup the run.

GO DUKE!

[Bob Green]

All of you who insist on using the run to setup the pass must all know what you are talking about, Duke could never be successful using the pass to setup the run.

I am not saying Duke cannot use the pass to set-up the run, I am saying Duke has not been successful using the pass to set-up the run.


I agree you can throw to set-up the run.

Two games into the 2012 season, Duke is ranked 113 out of 120 in rushing offense at 73 yards per game:

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&rpt=IA_teamrush&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

All of us discussing the game here on DBR have a strong desire to see Duke achieve success on the gridiron, but I doubt any of us think we know more than Coach Cutcliffe or Bill Walsh. I certainly do not. Those coaches have forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, but it is fun to discuss the X's and O's with fellow fans. My beliefs are Old School, so I'll stand my ground and insist Duke needs to establish the running game early in order to achieve success. Am I right? I don't know.

[Jim3k]

Meeting you was one of the few highlights of the day. Unfortunately the Duke crowd had the air taken out of it very early on.

Back at you. :)

[tommy]

To win, Duke must score a lot of points. We are not going to win 14-10 or 17-13 type games. Coach Cutcliffe's record at Duke, in games where Duke scored 30+ points is quite good (I can't remember it off the top of my head). In order to score lots of points, Duke must throw the ball down the field. In order to be successful throwing it down the field, we must establish the run first. Against FIU, we established the run. A specific example is the TD pass to Crowder, which came after back-to-back successful running plays. The TD pass to Vernon was on 4th and 1. FIU was looking to stop the run.

Stanford dominated the line of scrimmage and shut our offense down!

In order be successful throwing the ball down the field, any team must be able to protect the passer and at the same time give the receivers time to get down the field and get open. It didn't seem like we were able to do that at all, and Cut understandably quickly lost confidence in our ability to protect Renfree. Hence all the swing passes and other quick drops -- if Renfree held the ball any longer, there was just too much pressure. How many knockdowns and QB pressures were there on the stat sheet in the first half even? I'll bet a lot. Seemed to me in the portion of the game I watched that their D-line dominating our O-line was a critical factor. Not the only factor, but really a big one.

[Dopeshop]

Can anyone find or recall the Cut quotes or AD quotes about this season and why duke would be more competitive and the fans should expect a better performance week to week ?

It seems to me that Ross martin for Snyderwine is about all I see.

[hq2]

What did he know, Coach Bill Walsh's 5 Super Bowl titles

As I recall, he retired after 3 with the Niners, one of which I saw in person (in none
other than Palo Alto, no less). He was indeed a coaching genius who had an
incredible impact on the game.

[-bdbd]

Thanks for the list Olympic. On the ACC bowl tie-ins, traditionally ANY team in the ACC that gets 6 qualifying wins will go bowling, though there's always the odd one or two where the team votes not to go to a lesser bowl. The conference office works very hard to get the ACC as many bids as possible, come November. But I do remember just a few (3?) years ago that the ACC did send 9 teams bowling (and the last couple/few were 6-6 squads). But not all bowls are money-makers for the schools playing, as there are minimum seat guarantees the schools often sign up for, etc. But at this stage in our development as a program I have no doubt that, at 6-6, Duke will go bowling.

Thanks for the schedule breakdown davekay. I agree, it is most certainly possible. But Duke needs everything to break just right, win the winable games, especially at home - especially Memphis and NCCU (lose one of those and it's about over). Then we need to pluck three of the four-or-so "winable" games, like Wake, NC@CH and UVA or Miami. Of course, win a major upset game, like VPI or Ga Tech, and you've really helped yourself. But Swofford, et al did us no favors (once again) with this schedule. And, yes, I agree, that Wake very possibly becomes the most critical one.

But, for now, let's focus on business at hand - winning the next ONE.
:rolleyes:


It may be a bit premature to be listing bowls, but okay, here's the ACC picking order:

(1) Orange Bowl (gets ACC champ, unless the champ is No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS and in the BCS championship game)
(2) Chick-fil-A
(3) Russell Athletic Bowl (formerly Champs)
(4) Hyundi Sun Bowl
(5) Belk Bowl (Charlotte)
(6) Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl
(7) Advocare V100 Independence Bowl
(8) Miltary Bowl (Washington DC)
(9) Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl

The last one is conditional -- the Pac 12 (which has had trouble filling this slot in recent years) and Navy -- if Navy (which just opened with a lopsided loss to Notre Dame) gets to six wins -- got those spots. If either misses, then the ACC is next in line.

There is also the chance that the ACC gets two teams in the BCS -- as happened last year. In fact, a year ago, the ACC couldn't fill all its bowl slots. That's a far more likely scenario this year with UNC out of the mix.

As I say, six wins is a long way from realty -- but if the Devils to get there, they will go bowling.


Is it 9 bowl tie ins? I couldn't find a complete list for this season, but I was thinking we had 9 at one point but lost one of them.


The ACC has 8 guaranteed bowl spots. If Duke gets 6 wins they will bowl. That said, we will not be bowling this year.


Since Bob corrected the NCCU part of the post, I'll tackle the last two sentences.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument (and sanity) that Duke gets two more wins toward bowl eligibility in the NCCU and Memphis games. That leaves 3 to go. That was always going to be tough against our schedule, but is it hopeless?

For our away games we get Wake, FSU, Va Tech, and Ga Tech. If those four teams all play reasonably well, Duke would have to consider grabbing a win at Wake and taking the other 3 as losses to be okay. FSU is a beast. Va Tech is nearly as big a beast. Ga Tech is a very good team, although not an insurmountable obstacle. Beating them at their place, however, would be a big upset. Beating Wake at WS is tough, and would be an upset win, but seems the most doable of the four.

How about our home games? Virginia, North Carolina, Clemson, and Miami. We saw yesterday that UNC has a weak secondary, and their offense is not unstoppable (although it's pretty good). Our strength is in our passing game. We may match up well with the Cheaters. We'll be underdogs, but it's a winnable game. Virginia, hey, if we play well at home, we can beat them. Same with Miami, which is not the Miami of yesteryear, at least not at the moment. Clemson is a very good team, and would be a big upset if we won.

So, of our conference games, we'll probably be underdogs in all 8. But, if the team that took FIU to the woodshed can show up, even for our winnable home games, we can get 3 wins in those 8 games.

I still think the critical game is WFU. There's such a massive difference in the mental attitude of being 4-1 after a big-time conference road win, with 7 opportunities (four of them at home) to secure 2 wins, versus a team that is 3-2, winning games we should win, but not able to get over the hump, and trying to figure out how to get 3 wins out of the next 7 opportunities, when four of those opportunities (FSU, Va Tech, Ga Tech, and Clemson) look like long shots.

After WFU, the next critical game is UVa. If we lose to WFU, beating UVa becomes critical in maintaining any hope of a bowl. If we beat WFU, Duke may be the favorite welcoming UVa, and would have the opportunity to start out 5-1, with a bowl eligible season very much ours for the taking.

The NCCU and Memphis games, we have to win because we need to bounce back from the ugliness at Stanford, fix some problems, regain some confidence and NOT blow critical should-win games. But the real meat of the season is in the last week of September and first week of October. Assuming we do what we should against NCCU and Memphis, the next two weeks will decide if this really is a new year for Duke or, as you suspect, another year of the same.

[Newton_14]

Ironically, we ended up out-gaining Stanford due to the amount of garbage time and their defense and special teams work to shorten the field or score.


Which is exactly how FIU outgained us. Duke dominated that game. Scoreboards don't lie,

[Kewlswim]

As I recall, he retired after 3 with the Niners, one of which I saw in person (in none
other than Palo Alto, no less). He was indeed a coaching genius who had an
incredible impact on the game.

Hi,

The Niners have 5 titles, he was there as hc for four and I believe he retired, but worked for Niners for one or two of the others in some sort of capacity.

GO DUKE!

[CDu]

Very glad I didn't see this game. Sounds like it was just awful. Given that Stanford barely beat San Jose St in their opener, I was cautiously optimistic that we could get to 2-0. Clearly that wasn't the case.

That dream of a bowl bid is very much in danger now. We need to win 5 of the 6 "reasonably winnable" games (NCCU, Memphis, @Wake, UVa, UNC, Miami), because the rest of the schedule (@Va Tech, @FSU, Clemson, @Ga Tech) looks rough. Tough sledding ahead. Doable, but tough.

[duke79]

Hi,

We were awful. Duke football should be embarrassed by this performance. Then to make matters worse, as if they could get worse, at the end of the game it appears Coach Cut does not want to shake Stanford's Head Coach's hand. Why? What did he do? All he did was coach the team better and recruit better athletes. Ugh. The team looked as if it couldn't beat Palo Alto High School. The coaches shouldn't put this in the rear view mirror. They should do as Coach K and never forget this. It should be a reason for getting better. My goodness it is hard to be a Duke football fan.

GO DUKE!

Yea, I watched the first half and the first part of the third-quarter and then went to bed. This game was UGLY, from Duke's standpoint. I don't mean to denigrate or criticize Duke football (either the players or the coaches), but it appears we are not close to being able to compete with a top 20 or 25 D-1 college football team. Stanford clearly had bigger, stronger, faster and better football players. To me, it looked like a college team playing a high school team. I don't know if it is a coaching issue or simply that we haven't recruited enough top D-1 players to compete at the highest level. Plus, although I'm no football expert, I don't quite understand the strategy of throwing endless swing or lateral passes that seem to gain us 1 or 2 or 3 yards at a time. I thought the offensive strategy in football is to move the ball DOWN the field and NOT back and forth across the field? We don't seem to be fooling anyone with these short swing passes and we're not gaining real yardage with them. Why continue with this strategy? I thought the highlight of the game was the announcers on the Pac12 Network referring several times to the collective IQ's of the fans from the respective schools in the stands and mentioning that both schools are high-powered academic institutions.

[Olympic Fan]

Thanks for the list Olympic. On the ACC bowl tie-ins, traditionally ANY team in the ACC that gets 6 qualifying wins will go bowling, though there's always the odd one or two where the team votes not to go to a lesser bowl. The conference office works very hard to get the ACC as many bids as possible, come November. But I do remember just a few (3?) years ago that the ACC did send 9 teams bowling (and the last couple/few were 6-6 squads). But not all bowls are money-makers for the schools playing, as there are minimum seat guarantees the schools often sign up for, etc. But at this stage in our development as a program I have no doubt that, at 6-6, Duke will go bowling.

But, for now, let's focus on business at hand - winning the next ONE.

Just to clarify -- going to a minor bowl WILL almost certainly cost Duke money. The way the ACC divides its bowl revenue, teams playing in the minimum payout bowls almost always lose on their expenses -- they can lose big when they get stuck with required ticket purchases (although the ACC traditionally shares in that expense). Of course, when those teams get the ACC overall bowl check (which includes contributions from every bowl team and then is divided 12 ways), they come out ahead. But Duke would actually come out more ahead in the years they don't go to a bowl -- their share of the ACC bowl revenues is the same either way.

That said, going to a bowl would be a huge boost for the program and would pay off big time in the long run in terms of season ticket sales, recruiting and even TV exposure (not to mention that with the extra practice time would help jump start next season).

But I agree with your last comment. Let's win the next one to keep the bowl hopes alive. If we don't beat NCCU, we can quit thinking about a bowl.

PS dopeshop, as for your question about optimism -- football is a game of experience, especially at quarterback (where we have a fifth-year guy starting for the third straight year) and on the line, where 22-year-old seniors are almost always better than 18-year-old freshmen (obviously a few exceptions, but as a rule ...). It's a lot more than Ross Martin for Snyderwine -- it's returning the oldest, most experienced offensive line in more than a decade (for the first time in the Cut era we're not starting a redshirt freshman) ... it's returning a defensive line that still needs to get older, but is basically redshirt sophomores (which is better than a year ago, when they were redshirt freshmen). It's about a ton of veterans in the secondary and at running back. And there are more newcomers than Martyin -- such as Reeves and Blakeney at tight end ... Powell and Duncan at RB ... Kyle Brown at LB (and David Helton might as well be a new guy after playing just a few plays as a true freshman).

Cut said last spring that this is the deepest, most talented team he's had at Duke (and since his worst team was better than the best teams of Roof and Franks, that means he best team in this century). He didn't promise a bowl -- the schedule is a killer and our offseason injuries were devastating, but he did promise his best team. I know they didn't look like that at Stanford, but they sure did against Florida International.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Hi,

We were awful. Duke football should be embarrassed by this performance. Then to make matters worse, as if they could get worse, at the end of the game it appears Coach Cut does not want to shake Stanford's Head Coach's hand. Why? What did he do? All he did was coach the team better and recruit better athletes. Ugh. The team looked as if it couldn't beat Palo Alto High School. The coaches shouldn't put this in the rear view mirror. They should do as Coach K and never forget this. It should be a reason for getting better. My goodness it is hard to be a Duke football fan.

GO DUKE!
Looks like he will be subscribing to K's school of thought.


Just a few minutes removed from a 50-13 defeat at Stanford that no one in the Duke program saw coming, Blue Devils head coach David Cutcliffe told the team’s radio network, “Everyone says put it behind you, but we can’t put this behind us. We need to remember this and then we need to correct off of this.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/09/09/2330846/loss-provides-duke-with-blueprint.html

[Kimist]

From the article cited by CameronBornandBred:

"...the Blue Devils seemed reluctant to attempt anything other than a swing pass to either the right or left flat in the first half against Stanford, trying the move 13 times. Only two of those went for more than five yards, as the Cardinal linebackers quickly figured out the game plan and used their speed to swarm the receiver as soon as he caught the ball."

"...the majority of the bubble screens appeared to be designed play calls. On Duke’s third offensive possession, Renfree threw four straight swing passes — left side, right side, left side, right side — that went for nine yards, four yards, no gain and one yard. Each time, he immediately pivoted his shoulders and fired outside."

"The Blue Devils finished the game with 27 rushing yards despite playing most of the second half against Stanford’s backups. That’s the lowest total since Duke posted 12 yards rushing on Nov. 27, 2010 in a 24-19 loss to North Carolina."

While I continue to have the highest faith in Coach Cutcliffe.....something needs to change!

k

[Acymetric]

Just to clarify -- going to a minor bowl WILL almost certainly cost Duke money. The way the ACC divides its bowl revenue, teams playing in the minimum payout bowls almost always lose on their expenses -- they can lose big when they get stuck with required ticket purchases (although the ACC traditionally shares in that expense). Of course, when those teams get the ACC overall bowl check (which includes contributions from every bowl team and then is divided 12 ways), they come out ahead. But Duke would actually come out more ahead in the years they don't go to a bowl -- their share of the ACC bowl revenues is the same either way.

That said, going to a bowl would be a huge boost for the program and would pay off big time in the long run in terms of season ticket sales, recruiting and even TV exposure (not to mention that with the extra practice time would help jump start next season).

But I agree with your last comment. Let's win the next one to keep the bowl hopes alive. If we don't beat NCCU, we can quit thinking about a bowl.

PS dopeshop, as for your question about optimism -- football is a game of experience, especially at quarterback (where we have a fifth-year guy starting for the third straight year) and on the line, where 22-year-old seniors are almost always better than 18-year-old freshmen (obviously a few exceptions, but as a rule ...). It's a lot more than Ross Martin for Snyderwine -- it's returning the oldest, most experienced offensive line in more than a decade (for the first time in the Cut era we're not starting a redshirt freshman) ... it's returning a defensive line that still needs to get older, but is basically redshirt sophomores (which is better than a year ago, when they were redshirt freshmen). It's about a ton of veterans in the secondary and at running back. And there are more newcomers than Martyin -- such as Reeves and Blakeney at tight end ... Powell and Duncan at RB ... Kyle Brown at LB (and David Helton might as well be a new guy after playing just a few plays as a true freshman).

Cut said last spring that this is the deepest, most talented team he's had at Duke (and since his worst team was better than the best teams of Roof and Franks, that means he best team in this century). He didn't promise a bowl -- the schedule is a killer and our offseason injuries were devastating, but he did promise his best team. I know they didn't look like that at Stanford, but they sure did against Florida International.

I don't know that we looked better against FIU than we did against say UVA when we beat them 33-3 or NC State when we whipped them up and down the field (forget the score) in Raleigh. Not saying you're incorrect, but Stanford was extremely disheartening and FIU may not be as good as people thought. I'll wait until after the Wake game to make any predictions on the rest of the season, as it will be difficult to learn much about how good we are before then unless we have a Stanford/FSU level game against NCCU and Memphis.

[ChillinDuke]

Hi,

We were awful. Duke football should be embarrassed by this performance. Then to make matters worse, as if they could get worse, at the end of the game it appears Coach Cut does not want to shake Stanford's Head Coach's hand. Why? What did he do? All he did was coach the team better and recruit better athletes. Ugh. The team looked as if it couldn't beat Palo Alto High School. The coaches shouldn't put this in the rear view mirror. They should do as Coach K and never forget this. It should be a reason for getting better. My goodness it is hard to be a Duke football fan.

GO DUKE!

This.

I will start out by saying that I truly admire some posters' resiliency and unending Duke Football fandom.

I have grown weary of the constant promise of improvement and bickering (reasonably so) about what went wrong and what was the silver lining.

FIU was fun. Stanford sucked. Not sure that either is indicative that we have changed anything from the past few (many) years.

Jim Sumner and others have tirelessly pointed out how far down Duke was and how far we have come/are trying to come. I really, really, really, truly want to believe that.

Just very difficult to do so.

- Chillin

[CDu]

I don't know that we looked better against FIU than we did against say UVA when we beat them 33-3 or NC State when we whipped them up and down the field (forget the score) in Raleigh. Not saying you're incorrect, but Stanford was extremely disheartening and FIU may not be as good as people thought. I'll wait until after the Wake game to make any predictions on the rest of the season, as it will be difficult to learn much about how good we are before then unless we have a Stanford/FSU level game against NCCU and Memphis.

Yeah, it should be noted that FIU lost its QB (Carroll, former All-Freshmen SEC player) and top WR (Hilton, 3rd round draft pick) from last year's team. They weren't great defensively last year either, but they could score some points. It remains to be seen if the offense will be as prolific under Medlock and without Hilton at WR. It's also important to note that we caught a few nice breaks along the way against FIU. But yeah, too early to tell how good/bad FIU is and how good/bad we are.

I'll say this, though. We have a very tough back half of the schedule, where the most winnable game is either vs. UNC or vs. Miami (both at home). The other back-half games are almost certain to be losses (and likely blowout losses): @Va Tech, @FSU, Clemson, @Ga Tech. So we basically have to go 5-1 against NCCU, Memphis, @Wake, UVa, UNC, and Miami in order to be bowl-eligible. That's going to be tough.

[Bob Green]

I'll say this, though. We have a very tough back half of the schedule, where the most winnable game is either vs. UNC or vs. Miami (both at home). The other back-half games are almost certain to be losses (and likely blowout losses): @Va Tech, @FSU, Clemson, @Ga Tech. So we basically have to go 5-1 against NCCU, Memphis, @Wake, UVa, UNC, and Miami in order to be bowl-eligible. That's going to be tough.

But not impossible. We are 1-1 through two games and the loss to Stanford certainly shouldn't have surprised anyone. It is time to regroup, work harder and produce results. Maybe we get there this year or maybe we don't. It is important to show improvement as a team in order to grow the program. I know I'm preaching to the choir - sorry.