K, Team USA, and Recruiting Advantage

[NM Duke Fan]

"Every elite-level recruit in America dreams of one day winning an Olympic Gold. Do you know how many days in a row Duke could send out a USA basketball mail without having to use the same picture of Coach K twice? I'd bet they could go a year, easy. He's proved himself as the best coach in the world. He's coached LeBron, Kobe and Durant and got them all to buy in for a common purpose. Come on. Huge advantage. And it's deserved."

"It increases his celebrity. People are saying, 'There's my future coach.' And he's got a network of people. He can get in touch with Kobe and LeBron whenever he wants."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/19788727/critical-coaches-how-much-is-coach-k-helped-by-team-usa

[OldPhiKap]

The best advertising is free advertising.

[Dukehky]

I thought we'd see a big surge in this since he's been the national team coach. While I think it's certainly helpful, it's obvious that Duke isn't reeling 'em in hand over fist. I disagree with the article in the sense that kids want to win an Olympic Gold. They want to play immediately in college, and then get to the pro's, which is why, Calipari is doing so well right now. Another coach could just as easily negatively recruit against Duke by saying, if they liked him so much, why didn't they CHOOSE to play for him in college?

I certainly don't think being the Olympic coach hurts by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it helps as much with recruiting as that article seems to indicate.

[Dukehky]

All that being said, hopefully Jabari and Julius saw those images and sign their letters really, really, really soon

[moonpie23]

some recruits aren't really interested in being "coached"......they're just looking for that springboard to the league...

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Duke Basketball can't take every kid it wants, it sometimes seems that way, but the admissions office has a say. Coach K can put pressure and a kid who normally wouldn't be admitted sometimes is, but that pressure only goes so far and only goes to the point of one or two kids who really are super borderline. Other kids, Duke Basketball might want, but do go after recruiting when the admissions office (very quietly) makes it clear they wont admit a student-athlete. As fans, I think, there is a sense every good basketball player gets a letter of admission. Unfortunately, in terms of winning championships that is, it does not quite work that way. Ask Kenny Dennard about how Duke has to pass on some real studs who would undoubtedly help the basketball program.

GO DUKE!

[OldPhiKap]

I thought we'd see a big surge in this since he's been the national team coach. While I think it's certainly helpful, it's obvious that Duke isn't reeling 'em in hand over fist. I disagree with the article in the sense that kids want to win an Olympic Gold. They want to play immediately in college, and then get to the pro's, which is why, Calipari is doing so well right now. Another coach could just as easily negatively recruit against Duke by saying, if they liked him so much, why didn't they CHOOSE to play for him in college?

I certainly don't think being the Olympic coach hurts by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it helps as much with recruiting as that article seems to indicate.

Agreed, but I think it helps that we had a Kentucky one-and-done on the Olympic team. Yes, your son can play for Duke AND go straight to the pros. Just send him down to Durham. . . .

As someone else mentioned somewhere, the fact that Doc Rivers and Doug Collins were both singing K's praises -- including mentioning that they sent their own kids there -- has gotta help with the parents as well as the kids.

[Duke09]

It didn't happen last time after Beijing. While we won a title since then, it wasn't because of elite athletes we recruited post 2008. It was largely a group of skilled players recruited pre 2008. We haven't exactly seen a winfall on the court, with Kyrie and Rivers, the 2 possible people the 08 games affected, leaving after 1 year. It didn't land us any of the super elite recruits we've missed the last few years. So I'm skeptical until it happens

[Des Esseintes]

It didn't happen last time after Beijing. While we won a title since then, it wasn't because of elite athletes we recruited post 2008. It was largely a group of skilled players recruited pre 2008. We haven't exactly seen a winfall on the court, with Kyrie and Rivers, the 2 possible people the 08 games affected, leaving after 1 year. It didn't land us any of the super elite recruits we've missed the last few years. So I'm skeptical until it happens

Makes sense. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)

[SupaDave]

It didn't happen last time after Beijing. While we won a title since then, it wasn't because of elite athletes we recruited post 2008. It was largely a group of skilled players recruited pre 2008. We haven't exactly seen a winfall on the court, with Kyrie and Rivers, the 2 possible people the 08 games affected, leaving after 1 year. It didn't land us any of the super elite recruits we've missed the last few years. So I'm skeptical until it happens

Sometimes effects are felt in ripples. You can't expect one thing to push a recruit over the ledge BUT when you have a continuous stream of positive press then it definitely can't hurt.

In the last two years we have pulled in Matt Jones (trust me - certified beast), Rasheed, Hood, Rivers, Amile, and there could be another one OR two on the way.

[JasonEvans]

We haven't exactly seen a winfall on the court, with Kyrie and Rivers, the 2 possible people the 08 games affected, leaving after 1 year.

Yeah, we may have gotten the #1 recruit in the class 2 years in a row, but what I really want to see is if K can go one better and get the #0 recruit a couple years in a row!

Recruiting stud athletes is the ultimate catch 22. If they are really great, they go directly to the pros. If they are not good enough to go to the pros right away, they are a bust. I guess it is K's fault for developing them too quickly. If he could have just slowed down how good Kyrie was, we'd have another national title under our belt right now. Curses!

-Jason "Duke, UNC, and Kentucky are a notch above EVERYONE else in recruiting... and yet that is not enough for some fans" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

Yeah, we may have gotten the #1 recruit in the class 2 years in a row, but what I really want to see is if K can go one better and get the #0 recruit a couple years in a row!

Recruiting stud athletes is the ultimate catch 22. If they are really great, they go directly to the pros. If they are not good enough to go to the pros right away, they are a bust. I guess it is K's fault for developing them too quickly. If he could have just slowed down how good Kyrie was, we'd have another national title under our belt right now. Curses!

-Jason "Duke, UNC, and Kentucky are a notch above EVERYONE else in recruiting... and yet that is not enough for some fans" Evans

C'mon. K can't even recruit a big man for the National team.

[flyingdutchdevil]

C'mon. K can't even recruit a big man for the National team.

DBR comment of the month.

[COYS]

C'mon. K can't even recruit a big man for the National team.

Are you kidding? He does the opposite of recruit them. He concocts ways to injure them so he has an excuse to play small ball. :p

Ok, so we're having this debate again. I'm going to make a comparison to K and USA Basketball any major corporate brand, like, say Coke. Everyone knows what Coca Cola is. So why keep advertising? Well, by remaining visible, they prevent competitors from gaining market share. They also raise the cost of competing in the advertising market against Coke by spending more than they even need to for insane amounts of visibility. They make finding other brands like searching for a needle in a haystack. The bury the competition.

Now, this is not completely analogous to Coach K, Duke, and recruiting, obviously. More important things go into Coach K's decision to represent the USA than recruiting . Also, Coach K has NEVER had anything approaching Coke's portion of the market share for the top recruits in the land. However, USA basketball keeps Coach K visible and brings him positive press. He has had a long career while many coaches slowly fade out rather than going out with a bang, despite their very visible status as legends of the game (Knight, Williams, Olson . . . there are many others and there are reasons other than pure visibility why they faded, but still, these are examples of famous coaches who couldn't translate their glory days of old into constant recruiting success). It is very possible that if Coach K had not been the coach of USA Basketball, he would have lost more recruits over the years. Coach K himself said that USA basketball reinvigorated him. We may never see a direct link between Stud Recruit Blank that chooses Duke and K's tenure as a coach of USA basketball, but it is possible that it plays a role in maintaining the overall notoriety and perception of K as a coach still at the top of his game and, therefore, still a viable option for top recruits.

As for those who complain about our recruiting now, I really doubt there will ever be any appeasement unless Coach K brings in the number 1 recruit at each position every other year and they all stay all four years so that our backups are better than any other team in the country. No one gets everyone they want. Some coaches get lucky with how long players stay. Some coaches get lucky with how players develop. Coach K consistently brings in strong classes. He consistently brings in NBA lottery talent to supplement his strong recruiting. THe day will come when K retires. I hope we find someone who can be even half the recruiter that he has been because sometimes you don't know what you got 'til it's gone.

[Jderf]

As for those who complain about our recruiting now, I really doubt there will ever be any appeasement unless Coach K brings in the number 1 recruit at each position every other year and they all stay all four years so that our backups are better than any other team in the country.

Except if that happened, people would moan and cry about the inevitable transfers.

[COYS]

Except if that happened, people would moan and cry about the inevitable transfers.

Ah yes, and of course the endless threads about why Coach K is only using a 7 man rotation when the 10th man was the #3 recruit in the country.

[JasonEvans]

The day will come when K retires. I hope we find someone who can be even half the recruiter that he has been because sometimes you don't know what you got 'til it's gone.

THIS ^^^

If we think it is hard to match the expectations of many Duke fans now, whew... wait until we have Guthridge as our coach! We will be longing for the day when we only made the Final Four once out of every 3 or 4 years.

-Jason "lets not turn this into a 'K successor' debate please" Evans

[Scorp4me]

First off let me say I used to dread the day when K retires. But the simple fact is the man has earned it and more and when he wants to retire I have no qualms. Course if he wants to coach another 10 years then God bless him!

Second, the effects of these Olympics will not be felt for years to go. Kids pointed to the 91, 92 championships as why they grew up Duke fans years down the road. The players selecting their colleges now already have the favorites they grew up with, the coaches they think can help them the most and many of them include Duke and Coach K. It's the younger kids, growing up watching the Olympics who are being impacted by them. Who still have dreams of winning Gold medals.

They will be the ones selecting colleges 10 years from now. If Coach K is still around we may see that impact come then. If he's gone will they still associate those Olympics with Duke? I don't know, but I also don't care. I'm just enjoying being a Duke fan right now!

[Atlanta Duke]

First off let me say I used to dread the day when K retires. But the simple fact is the man has earned it and more and when he wants to retire I have no qualms. Course if he wants to coach another 10 years then God bless him!

This article shares your sentiments

Now he gets to end his career on his terms. Will it be another two years at Duke? Three? Six? His choice. Now comes the final turn, which may bring no other benchmark accomplishments but will certainly be the most relaxing period of his coaching career. Krzyzewski's earned that....

We're seeing the transmogrification of Coach K: coaching icon to Coach K: basketball legend. As long as we keep those praises in perspective, I think the sport and the man deserve the acknowledgement.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/19794886/mike-krzyzewski-still-on-cloud-nine-after-the-olympics

At the end of the article is a link to audio of Coach K's high praise of LeBron during K's appearance on Jim Rome's show today

"[James] is brilliant ... and so physically gifted," Krzyzewski said. "He is all things to all people on the court."

[camion]

THIS ^^^

If we think it is hard to match the expectations of many Duke fans now, whew... wait until we have Guthridge as our coach! We will be longing for the day when we only made the Final Four once out of every 3 or 4 years.

-Jason "lets not turn this into a 'K successor' debate please" Evans

Some day we will look back on the K era as a golden time in Duke basketball. Don't wait for some day.

These are the good old days. Enjoy them now.

[Dopeshop]

I recall the worries about Coach K's commitment to the Olympics and its potential to hurt recruiting .

I think it's been an unqualified Coup for the Duke Program and I wanted to gather the best Examples.

My first is the 2008 picture with K ,the team ,and the gold medals around his neck.

Although ,I can't remember the exact quotes, both Kobie and Labron remarked that while , they did not go to college ,if they had ,Coach K is the coach they would have wanted to play for.

There have been any number of such items this go -round . quotes by Durant, Chris Paul ,Tyson, And a marvelous comment by Doug Collins concerning his son playing for Coach K ,Doc's son doing the same and how K separates from the other coaches (Xs and Os) by his people skills and devotion to team unity.

The exact quote would really help as well as other things that should resonate with HS stars who worship these NBA stars and what they think and say. Thanks. Dopeshop

[licc85]

THe day will come when K retires. I hope we find someone who can be even half the recruiter that he has been because sometimes you don't know what you got 'til it's gone.

Losing Coach K will be a huge loss for the program, but as far as recruiting, I think Bill Guthridge and Matt Doherty have already proven the coach almost doesn't matter when you are recruiting for one of the highest profile programs in the country. We will get recruits regardless of who is coaching. I'm more worried about what happens after we get those recruits. Nobody in this world knows how to motivate and manage a basketball team of star athletes like Mike Krzyzewski.

[COYS]

I think this is more true for big state universities like UNC. Even then, it's not like the UNC program was down and out for very long. Indiana lost a lot of their top recruits for a while, both at the end of Knight's reign and in the subsequent decade. Even the basketball crazy state of Indiana and the flagship university's history and high profile wasn't enough to bring in recruits. Landing Cody Zeller may have finally pushed Indiana back into the national profile, but it still remains to be seen if they can stay there. So while a lot of recruits will still be interested in Duke, it remains to be seen how much cache the Duke brand will carry five to ten years after K leaves. I bet it will be a little bit tougher for a private school like Duke to stay on top, which doesn't mean it's impossible, but I don't think we can assume that Duke will continue to get recruits just because it's "Duke."

[johnb]

I'm going to make a comparison to K and USA Basketball any major corporate brand, like, say Coke. ..Coach K has NEVER had anything approaching Coke's portion of the market share for the top recruits in the land.

A quick search found that Coke has a 40% market share for soda. That's big. If you look at top 30 players who also have the academic chops and interpersonal qualities to get into Duke, I'm thinking our "market share" may approach 40%. And unless we can arrange for our team to be 20-30 players big--or ramp things up so that we only need to look at the top dozen players--I'm not sure we could do much better.

[Des Esseintes]

I think this is more true for big state universities like UNC. Even then, it's not like the UNC program was down and out for very long. Indiana lost a lot of their top recruits for a while, both at the end of Knight's reign and in the subsequent decade. Even the basketball crazy state of Indiana and the flagship university's history and high profile wasn't enough to bring in recruits. Landing Cody Zeller may have finally pushed Indiana back into the national profile, but it still remains to be seen if they can stay there. So while a lot of recruits will still be interested in Duke, it remains to be seen how much cache the Duke brand will carry five to ten years after K leaves. I bet it will be a little bit tougher for a private school like Duke to stay on top, which doesn't mean it's impossible, but I don't think we can assume that Duke will continue to get recruits just because it's "Duke."

Well said. Let's keep in mind the following, however: Knight was running a fairly mediocre program for over half a decade before his ouster; Mike Davis was an interim hire who turned out to be incompetent; Kelvin Sampson put the program in a ditch with major sanctions. There was some success in Bloomington over the past fifteen years, but there was also a lot of scuffling. Yet, now out from under NCAA probation, Indiana is again an excellent job and a place where Tom Crean can reel in prime talent. I think a couple of bad hires in a row can damage a program, but a good hire can bring it roaring back to the top. (Whether Crean is a good hire probably remains open for debate, of course.)

The best programs go dormant; they don't wither. Look at UCLA. Though public, UCLA functions in many ways like a private institution. It enjoys limited funding, and its facilities are often suboptimal. Yet Jim Harrick, Steve Lavin, and Ben Howland--not one of them, with the possible exception of Howland, top-shelf--have all been able to attract major talent to the school. I suspect that the brand K has built will prove similarly lasting, despite its private status.

[Pghdukie]

Who will be the first recruit that hops on board now that K has again established the highest level of excellence ?

[licc85]

Who will be the first recruit that hops on board now that K has again established the highest level of excellence ?

My money's on Jabari

[BleedsP287]

Coach K could get every recruit out there, but he'd still only play 7 guys, and come post season we'd be too tired to win anyway. (humor alert)

[OldPhiKap]

Coach K could get every recruit out there, but he'd still only play 7 guys, and come post season we'd be too tired to win anyway. (humor alert)

And, of course, none of them would be big men.

[Indoor66]

And, of course, none of them would be big men.

Or coached by a REAL big man coach.

[OldPhiKap]

Or coached by a REAL big man coach.

Yeah, you could see this problem with the Olympic team. No big men, no real big man coach. Result? We almost lost a game or two. Tired of waiting for tough defense and attacking perimeter players to bail us out over and over and over.

[NSDukeFan]

Yeah, you could see this problem with the Olympic team. No big men, no real big man coach. Result? We almost lost a game or two. Tired of waiting for tough defense and attacking perimeter players to bail us out over and over and over.

And they took too many threes.

[davekay1971]

Front page article on how UNC and State fans cheer for K every 4 years is almost comical, or shows just how far out of whack the IC crowd is. Most of the Tarheel fans I know have done their best to ignore the Olympic Men's Basketball team for the last 2 Olympics, and are running the predictable party line "K's not doing anything. Anyone could win with that team. He's just doing it for endorsements." IC even has a remarkably petty, ignorant, and nasty thread on the subject (even by IC's already low standards). I'm not suprised that more professional people like Montross (who does a very nice job on the Carolina basketball network) are able to acknowledge and appreciate K's accomplishments with the national team, but I think article is really underestimating the jealousy and ignorance of the typical Carolina fan.

[jimsumner]

And they took too many threes.

Didn't use the bench, either.

[Indoor66]

Didn't use the bench, either.

Need a big man coach. Heck, they need big men.

[MChambers]

Need a big man coach. Heck, they need big men.

Stubbornly stuck to a man to man defense, rather than playing a zone.

[MarkD83]

Front page article on how UNC and State fans cheer for K every 4 years is almost comical, or shows just how far out of whack the IC crowd is. Most of the Tarheel fans I know have done their best to ignore the Olympic Men's Basketball team for the last 2 Olympics, and are running the predictable party line "K's not doing anything. Anyone could win with that team. He's just doing it for endorsements." IC even has a remarkably petty, ignorant, and nasty thread on the subject (even by IC's already low standards). I'm not suprised that more professional people like Montross (who does a very nice job on the Carolina basketball network) are able to acknowledge and appreciate K's accomplishments with the national team, but I think article is really underestimating the jealousy and ignorance of the typical Carolina fan.

Has it been pointed out to IC that the previous USA head coaches both of whom have a UNC background failed miserably at international events with NBA players?

[rasputin]

Has it been pointed out to IC that the previous USA head coaches both of whom have a UNC background failed miserably at international events with NBA players?

This post springs from a mistaken premise--that logic has anything to do with what gets on IC.

[MarkD83]

This post springs from a mistaken premise--that logic has anything to do with what gets on IC.

You are correct. What was I thinking. I guess I didn't take enough independent study courses. If I did I might better understand IC.

[OldPhiKap]

Has it been pointed out to IC that the previous USA head coaches both of whom have a UNC background failed miserably at international events with NBA players?

Well, the Helms Committee held a vote and declared that the USA won gold that year. So they're not sure what the problem is.

[UrinalCake]

I agree with the earlier posters that producing NBA players is a more important selling point than winning Olympic gold. Kyrie's success, along with the development of Austin, Kyle, Nolan, Miles, etc., will have as much of an effect if not more on our recruiting than whatever visibility Coach K has gained. With that said, we hear so often recruits say they chose Duke because they respect Coach K as the best coach in the game, and his Olympic record only supports that.

As a side note, I thought his 2010 gig at the World Championships was a more impactful coaching performance than 2012. He took high-level NBA players and turned them into elite superstars (Durant, Westbrook, Chandler, Love). If I were trying to get a recruit's attention I'd talk about that first.

[sagegrouse]

I agree with the earlier posters that producing NBA players is a more important selling point than winning Olympic gold. Kyrie's success, along with the development of Austin, Kyle, Nolan, Miles, etc., will have as much of an effect if not more on our recruiting than whatever visibility Coach K has gained. With that said, we hear so often recruits say they chose Duke because they respect Coach K as the best coach in the game, and his Olympic record only supports that.

As a side note, I thought his 2010 gig at the World Championships was a more impactful coaching performance than 2012. He took high-level NBA players and turned them into elite superstars (Durant, Westbrook, Chandler, Love). If I were trying to get a recruit's attention I'd talk about that first.

There is the Coach K brand and then there are specific Duke and Coach K selling points. Being the highly successful USA team coach through two Olympics clearly enhances the Coach K brand. The specific selling points for K, I suppose, are that the best players in the world followed his coaching, respected his knowledge and leadership, and praised his abilities.

Cranking out a series of successful NBA players not only enhances the brand, but in a different way, but also provides powerful selling points to would-be NBA players. Having done both is the distinguishing feature. Until K, there had been no successful USA coach from the colleges since Dean Smith in 1984.

sagegrouse

[g-money]

I think comments like these (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8283866) from the world's best player might just give Coach K and Duke a bit of a recruiting edge.

(@ the 1:00 mark)

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't doubt that Coach K's Team USA experience will help out with recruiting. With the added exposure and praise from virtually every US superstar (and most notably Kobe, LBJ, and CP3), how can Coach K not get a bump in recruiting?

The issue is that it just won't be measurable. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a recruit will say, "I choose Duke because the coach managed Lebron" or "I choose Duke because of his Team USA experience". Rather, recruits will say "I want a chance to develop under one of the greatest college coaches", "I want to be part of a winning tradition at Duke", or "I choose Duke for the coach, campus, and facilities." The Olympics may certainly be a reason why if a recruit reels off a bunch of reasons, but I personally believe that will be more of semantics than anything else.

IMO, Coach K recruits will undoubtedly come to Duke for a) Coach K and b) Duke. Everything else takes a far third, fourth, and so on. And, considering that Coach K isn't likely going to coach for another 10 years, the opportunity to play for him is winding down. Any bump in recruiting can be due to a hundred reasons, but I feel that Coach K's finite time left as Duke coach will be numero uno. And you know Coach K will use that as leverage as well (as he should): "I'll be retiring in the next 5 years, and we want to win our 7th championship*. You can be part of the end of my legacy at this university. Would you like to come aboard?"

*Obviously, we're going to win at least 2 more championships before Coach K uses that speech. ;)

[Duke09]

I meant to say that while we've had some good players, the recruiting classes since 2008 haven't been the #1 classes of the past and they have been lackluster when on campus. We haven't landed anyone who Coach K couldn't have otherwise (I know, impossible to prove) and there are no seasons with multiple elite players in them. There is no Brand, Battier, Burgess, or Jay Will, Boozer, Dunleavy, or JJ/Shelden, or even the flop of the McRoberts/Paulus class that was the so heralded coming in. Since 2008 we've landed 2 #1s who promptly left. Kyrie excelled on a team that was mostly put together pre 2008 Olympics (Nolan and Singler)

here is the 2008 Class (ranked 13th in the nation)
Miles
Eliot Williams
Czyz

2009 Class (8)
Ryan Kelly
Andre Dawkins
Mason

2010 (8)
irving
Thornton
Hairston

2011 Class (ranked 2nd. And which I'll admit the jury is still out on due to 2 redshirts)
Murphy
MP3
Austin Rivers
Cook
Gbinje

2012 is ranked 11th. Jury still out.

The 2012 should of been when we saw Bejing pay off, as the 2009 and 2010 classes mature. Blame it on the pros or blame it on transfers, but so far, it hasn't been great. Good sure, but thornton, hairston, kelly, dawkins, mason isn't the core of a title team, maybe not even an ACC title team. Only Mason would see rotation time on the 2010 team, possibly Kelly, and very few of the 2010 team could crack the rotation of the 2004 team.

Last year, I think clearly Rivers was overrated and we had a team that wasn't great and frankly not fun to watch. It was the worse defense in a decade because we didn't have athletes to guard the ball. It came down to a lack of talent.

Basically I'm going to ask you to prove it. if 2013 becomes a Kentucky like class, I'll eat crow. But post Beijing hasn't been 1998, 2000, 2002, or even 2006 when it comes to recruiting. The best players, especially the best players who play multiple years, which is when Duke thrives, have gone elsewhere. And frankly, they've gone to UNC.

[NSDukeFan]

I meant to say that while we've had some good players, the recruiting classes since 2008 haven't been the #1 classes of the past and they have been lackluster when on campus. We haven't landed anyone who Coach K couldn't have otherwise (I know, impossible to prove) and there are no seasons with multiple elite players in them. There is no Brand, Battier, Burgess, or Jay Will, Boozer, Dunleavy, or JJ/Shelden, or even the flop of the McRoberts/Paulus class that was the so heralded coming in. Since 2008 we've landed 2 #1s who promptly left. Kyrie excelled on a team that was mostly put together pre 2008 Olympics (Nolan and Singler)

here is the 2008 Class (ranked 13th in the nation)
Miles
Eliot Williams
Czyz

2009 Class (8)
Ryan Kelly
Andre Dawkins
Mason

2010 (8)
irving
Thornton
Hairston

2011 Class (ranked 2nd. And which I'll admit the jury is still out on due to 2 redshirts)
Murphy
MP3
Austin Rivers
Cook
Gbinje

2012 is ranked 11th. Jury still out.

The 2012 should of been when we saw Bejing pay off, as the 2009 and 2010 classes mature. Blame it on the pros or blame it on transfers, but so far, it hasn't been great. Good sure, but thornton, hairston, kelly, dawkins, mason isn't the core of a title team, maybe not even an ACC title team. Only Mason would see rotation time on the 2010 team, possibly Kelly, and very few of the 2010 team could crack the rotation of the 2004 team.

Last year, I think clearly Rivers was overrated and we had a team that wasn't great and frankly not fun to watch. It was the worse defense in a decade because we didn't have athletes to guard the ball. It came down to a lack of talent.

Basically I'm going to ask you to prove it. if 2013 becomes a Kentucky like class, I'll eat crow. But post Beijing hasn't been 1998, 2000, 2002, or even 2006 when it comes to recruiting. The best players, especially the best players who play multiple years, which is when Duke thrives, have gone elsewhere. And frankly, they've gone to UNC.

I thought I would add a couple of clarifications, according to RSCI (http://www.rscihoops.com/). The 2009 class was rated the #8 class by RSCI, but did not include Andre, who was added later. It also did not include Seth Curry. The 2009 class was rated #9. The 2011 class was rated #2, though Gbinijie has now departed and that does not include Rodney Hood. The 2012 class is ranked tied for #10.

During that same time, UNC has had classes ranked #2, #3, #8 and #4, though I don't believe they have added any transfers in that time. The only other school to be in the top 10 all four years is, of course, UK, who were #1 according to RSCI data all four years. Frankly, I wouldn't say that all the best players went to UNC, though they are on a better four year stretch. If you decide to include Andre Dawkins, Seth Curry and Rodney Hood, however, things look a lot closer, which is another reason that, for this coming year, few around here are fearing that place where you believe all the good players go.