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View Full Version : USA MBB: USA 109, ARG 83 (Semifinal)



hurleyfor3
08-08-2012, 07:14 PM
Discuss here. Tip is Friday, 2100 BST, 1600 EDT, 1300 PDT.

flyingdutchdevil
08-09-2012, 09:14 AM
Don't know how much the US will win by, but this will be one of the most aggressive and physical matches during this tournament. Between Argentina's insanely aggressive style of play and the cheap shot to Melo's crown jewels, there is going to be some serious hostility. There is a chance that the US becomes too emotional for this game and loses focus, but that is the exact reason why Coach K was brought it - manage the players. I don't think there is a better coach in the world at doing this one exact task.

CDu
08-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Don't know how much the US will win by, but this will be one of the most aggressive and physical matches during this tournament. Between Argentina's insanely aggressive style of play and the cheap shot to Melo's crown jewels, there is going to be some serious hostility. There is a chance that the US becomes too emotional for this game and loses focus, but that is the exact reason why Coach K was brought it - manage the players. I don't think there is a better coach in the world at doing this one exact task.

Yeah, should be interesting.

In related news, there was a fight between Spain and France in their quarterfinal. Apparently, Spain was flopping all over the court in classic soccer style. So Batum decided to give them a reason not to flop (essentially punching the Spanish PG in the stomach in an "attempt at the ball"). Things are going to get heated across the board.

Keeping focused is going to be the key for us. We're better than Argentina. We just can't let them get into our heads.

subzero02
08-09-2012, 11:51 AM
We can't lose this game...

flyingdutchdevil
08-09-2012, 02:52 PM
Yeah, should be interesting.

In related news, there was a fight between Spain and France in their quarterfinal. Apparently, Spain was flopping all over the court in classic soccer style. So Batum decided to give them a reason not to flop (essentially punching the Spanish PG in the stomach in an "attempt at the ball"). Things are going to get heated across the board.

Keeping focused is going to be the key for us. We're better than Argentina. We just can't let them get into our heads.

And the US is not in the Argie's heads either. Manu - one of the best lefties to play the game - has absolutely zero fear of the US, which cannot be said for a lot of players. He has instilled such an amazing mentality and attitude to this Argentina team. IMO, Argentina is a much for difficult opponent than Spain due to mental, physical, and historical reasons. My prediction: the US will win by around 15, with Argentina making a strong comeback towards the end but inevitably failing. If the game is won by single digits, I don't want to be [winner of Russia / Spain] because, as is typical with Coach K when Duke under performs, the US will most likely have their best game then.

Billy Dat
08-09-2012, 04:11 PM
And the US is not in the Argie's heads either. Manu - one of the best lefties to play the game - has absolutely zero fear of the US, which cannot be said for a lot of players. He has instilled such an amazing mentality and attitude to this Argentina team. IMO, Argentina is a much for difficult opponent than Spain due to mental, physical, and historical reasons. My prediction: the US will win by around 15, with Argentina making a strong comeback towards the end but inevitably failing. If the game is won by single digits, I don't want to be [winner of Russia / Spain] because, as is typical with Coach K when Duke under performs, the US will most likely have their best game then.

I accept the fact that Argentina will be playing with nothing to lose and that will be their primary advantage. I also believe that they will believe that they have a chance to win. However, the idea that the US isn't in their heads I think is going a little too far. The US has to be in their heads. They haven't beaten us in 8 years, and they know they have to play a practically perfect game to beat the US.

I think the US will keep its cool simply because it's going to be Argentina's primary strategy to make the US lose it's cool. How can the US lose? Argentina keep the pace really slow, avoid turnovers, shoot the lights out, get us in foul trouble, nail all their free throws, the US shots a horrible percentage and misses a ton of free throws. If all of that happens, the US might lose a 1-2 possession game. This is true for every game the US plays. I like those chances.

Our players should be smelling blood in the water. It's $ time and I think we'll see their best.

flyingdutchdevil
08-09-2012, 04:24 PM
I accept the fact that Argentina will be playing with nothing to lose and that will be their primary advantage. I also believe that they will believe that they have a chance to win. However, the idea that the US isn't in their heads I think is going a little too far. The US has to be in their heads. They haven't beaten us in 8 years, and they know they have to play a practically perfect game to beat the US.

I think the US will keep its cool simply because it's going to be Argentina's primary strategy to make the US lose it's cool. How can the US lose? Argentina keep the pace really slow, avoid turnovers, shoot the lights out, get us in foul trouble, nail all their free throws, the US shots a horrible percentage and misses a ton of free throws. If all of that happens, the US might lose a 1-2 possession game. This is true for every game the US plays. I like those chances.

Our players should be smelling blood in the water. It's $ time and I think we'll see their best.

Argentina may not have beaten the US in eight years, but outside of Greece, who has? Argentina keeps the games against the US competitive, aggressive, and exciting. Despite not having the most / best NBA talent, Argentina, IMO, is the best international team outside of the US (even better than Spain).

I will - and have - stated frequently that the US will destroy competition due to talent. I don't want to get into the whole 1992 vs 2012 debate, but I will say that, outside of an improvement in international talent, there is one massive difference: teams that played the Dream Team were scared &%$@-less. This time around, few teams are and attack the US full-on (still without much success). Patty Mills, a back-up guard on San Antonio, scored 26 points against one of the best defensive backcourts ever assembled. And he outplayed Chris Paul despite being significantly less talented. Manu comes at the US like he does as if he were on the Spurs. There is a difference between knowing you are less talented and being down-right scared of your opponents. Argentina, like every country, knows that they don't have a LBJ or Westbrook, but they do believe that they can win. And that is why I think that few teams, especially Argentina, aren't going to be intimidated by any team.

msdukie
08-09-2012, 04:44 PM
Discuss here. Tip is Friday, 1700 GMT, 1600 Zulu, 1200 EDT, 0900 PDT.

Game is at 4p. ET

Billy Dat
08-09-2012, 05:29 PM
Argentina may not have beaten the US in eight years, but outside of Greece, who has? Argentina keeps the games against the US competitive, aggressive, and exciting. Despite not having the most / best NBA talent, Argentina, IMO, is the best international team outside of the US (even better than Spain).

You make all fair points, I am simply sensitive about the whole "The US Could Lose" story angle, but what other interesting angle is there?

Meanwhile, I have been complaining repeatedly about how I feel that the starters, as a unit, stink. Not including last night's game, the only +/- analysis I have seen is that they are the best line-up by far...shows what I know. This NBA.com article shows those stats and includes a lot of other interesting Team USA analysis through the end of pool play:

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/08/07/love-rewards-krzyzewski-for-going-big/

hurleyfor3
08-09-2012, 06:33 PM
Game is at 4p. ET

It is now, but the sources I checked did originally have it at noon edt.

moonpie23
08-09-2012, 09:23 PM
dang, ......i changed my sched all around to be free from 12-2..... :(

i should check official sources for the game times.....not blaming anyone......

awhom111
08-09-2012, 09:30 PM
dang, ......i changed my sched all around to be free from 12-2..... :(

i should check official sources for the game times.....not blaming anyone......

You can be our chief scout for the next game.

Duke of Nashville
08-10-2012, 03:05 AM
Not sure how much the hype will carry over to the Semi-Final match but Dwight Howard appears to have been traded to the Lakers.

Don't think it will hender Kobe's performance but Iggy was also part of the trade. A season vet moving a team he has played for his entire career, the 76er's, to the Denver nuggets. Iggy has been playing pretty well and is a big part of their success with the waves of talent that comes off of the bench and defensive intensity.

Here's to a win tomorrow....

BD80
08-10-2012, 07:16 AM
Not sure how much the hype will carry over to the Semi-Final match but Dwight Howard appears to have been traded to the Lakers.

Don't think it will hender Kobe's performance but Iggy was also part of the trade. A season vet moving a team he has played for his entire career, the 76er's, to the Denver nuggets. Iggy has been playing pretty well and is a big part of their success with the waves of talent that comes off of the bench and defensive intensity.

Here's to a win tomorrow....

Adding to the drama is that his now former coach, Doug Collins, is over there calling the games. I would hope that Doug was the one to break the news to AI, it sounded like Doug really admired AI as a player. Poor AI now has to learn how to play the carolina way. That news would depress me.

Billy Dat
08-10-2012, 08:37 AM
Adding to the drama is that his now former coach, Doug Collins, is over there calling the games. I would hope that Doug was the one to break the news to AI, it sounded like Doug really admired AI as a player. Poor AI now has to learn how to play the carolina way. That news would depress me.

I always read that Doug and Iggy had a fairly poor, non-existent relationship...this tweet from ESPN's David Thorpe kind of supports that fact:

david b. thorpe ‏@coachthorpe
Other thoughts: Doug Collins said he had not talked to Andre in 2 years. How often is he going to chat with Bynum?

There has been word about Iggy being moved for months, this can't come as any surprise. As for it impacting his play in the Olympics, even if it did, he is currently 9th out of 12 in the rotation. Denver is a better organization with a better future than Philly.

Reilly
08-10-2012, 08:42 AM
http://www.usabasketball.com/misc/12_moly_notes_07.pdf

COYS
08-10-2012, 04:08 PM
Kobe!

COYS
08-10-2012, 04:22 PM
End of first quarter.

USA up 24-19. The defense looks really good. The team is really focused and active. There have been a few minor breakdowns, but 19 points per quarter ain't gonna beat the USA on even the worst of off nights.

That being said, the offense has looked a little stagnant. Kobe came out on fire, nailed a few threes and even had a driving, reverse, almost-dunk on Scolia. Unfortunately, the rest of the team didn't get involved. Everyone else seems totally out of rhythm. I"d like to see Lebron get the ball some inside Argentina's zone and see if he can't get everyone else going.

COYS
08-10-2012, 04:25 PM
Hmm, the Deron Williams/Westbrook offense is not faring so well. Williams is having a hard time figuring out what to do with the zone. Coach K is bringing Kobe, Durant, and James back (although Williams is staying in). So far, so good on the first possession as good ball movement gives Love a shot at the rim. Next possession=Lebron straight to the rim for another score.

COYS
08-10-2012, 04:27 PM
Hmm, the Deron Williams/Westbrook offense is not faring so well. Williams is having a hard time figuring out what to do with the zone. Coach K is bringing Kobe, Durant, and James back (although Williams is staying in). So far, so good on the first possession as good ball movement gives Love a shot at the rim. Next possession=Lebron straight to the rim for another score.

Paul and James are carving up the zone. Clearly, we have our answer to the zone defense! Great passing, cutting, and finishing.

COYS
08-10-2012, 04:32 PM
Midway through the second, USA seems to have regained control, but it's clear that this is going to be a fight the rest of the way. Kobe was hot early, but Lebron and Paul have put on a clinic on how to beat a zone since then and have mapped out a more easily replicable plan for the offense.

Defensively, USA is still playing hard. Argentina's good and going to work hard to get shots, but overall, the USA came to play. Kobe's got his mean face on.

NashvilleDevil
08-10-2012, 04:43 PM
Midway through the second, USA seems to have regained control, but it's clear that this is going to be a fight the rest of the way. Kobe was hot early, but Lebron and Paul have put on a clinic on how to beat a zone since then and have mapped out a more easily replicable plan for the offense.

Defensively, USA is still playing hard. Argentina's good and going to work hard to get shots, but overall, the USA came to play. Kobe's got his mean face on.

I think Argentina missed just 1 of their 3 point attempts in the 2nd quarter and a couple of those were with hands in their face.

COYS
08-10-2012, 04:48 PM
47-40, halftime.

This game started with two big runs. One by the USA made it 18-4 early. Then one by Argentina cut the lead down to two. Since then, it's been a grind-it-out game that has the USA with a slight advantage. Ginobli hit a three right at the buzzer to cut the USA advantage down to 7. However, K should be encouraged with how well Paul and James have played against the Argentinian zone. It's been a half court game, but the USA is playing it very well. Lebron and/or Paul have set up each other or others for a number of scores, including a few nifty passes from James to Love for dunks or layups. Both Paul and Lebron seem to be determined to give the USA good scoring opportunities from inside the arc. Excellent heads up play and great leadership. Love has also played wonderfully. He's rebounded well, put himself in good position to score, and played pretty good defense, too.

On the other end of the court, Delfino has been doing his best JJ Redick impression by launching threes from waaaay behind the arc. Ginobli's been able to make things happen, but he's had to work for it. Over all, I think the USA has to be happy with the effort on D. A few lapses have led to open three point shots, but Argentina is working hard for everything and has had to hit some tough shots to keep it close. One has to think the added depth of the USA will eventually wear down Argentina on both ends of the floor. It won't be easy, though.

COYS
08-10-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm going to continue talking to myself on this thread =).

Argentina came out strong to start the second with Ginobli hitting a three, getting a three point play, and pushing the ball up the court past a lax USA defense.

But Lebron answers quickly by making things happen defensively and then doing some nice offensive orchestration of his own in setting up two threes for Durant. For the USA, it's all James, Durant and Paul, right now. Melo and Kobe have been pretty hit or miss. Meanwhile, the USA is using the dreaded small lineup without Love, Chandler, or Davis (obviously). I'm not a fan of this lineup, but then again, I don't have four NCAA championships, a World Championship, and an Olympic Gold Medal win.

COYS
08-10-2012, 05:14 PM
Lebron is playing on another level. A drive and jam for the and 1 . . . feeding Durant for a three . . . feeding Melo for the (strangely) missed dunk . . . chasing down the offensive board along with Love for a tip out to Durant for a three . . . tipping in another missed shot for a two . . . Dude can do everything. He has literally played all 5 positions in this quarter . . . and he's played all of them well.

COYS
08-10-2012, 05:18 PM
74-57 at the end of three. Lebron is clearly the best player in the world. Durant is clearly the second best. Luckily, they both play for team USA. There is no question that Lebron is the leader on this team when they're on the court. There's nothing he can't do. It seems that the other guys are buying into this, as the Lebron orchestrated third quarter offense looked great. Meanwhile, Durant is so hot from outside it's just silly.

Bob Green
08-10-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm going to continue talking to myself on this thread =).

I am listening. :D

COYS
08-10-2012, 05:25 PM
Wow, Melo goes off for three and turns this thing into a laugher in literally 50 seconds. The USA had lost a little rhythm and Argentina had gotten the lead back down to 20 (not that it looked like they'd really be able to pull it out, but it raised the possibility). Then, keyed off of some great defensive play, Melo gets open for three threes in a row . . . the last one a classic "heat check" shot from probably 5 feet behind the NBA line. As it turns out, he was still hot. USA up by 29 and the game is basically over. Time to rest guys for the Gold Medal game!

COYS
08-10-2012, 05:36 PM
USA and ARgentina shut it down after the deficit got to 29. Feels like a pick up game, now. Only real development is that Westbrook left with some sort of injury. He walked off the court on his own power but with a limp and went straight down the tunnel. No news, yet. Hopefully he's ok. 109-83 the final score. USA could easily have had 120 if they had kept the pedal down.

Duke71
08-10-2012, 06:55 PM
I am listening. :D

Coys,

Unlike Bob Green, I wasn't listening because I was out but now that I'm back and I've read all your unanswered posts....gotta say I loved your enthusiasm. Keep it up. Our BBallers took care of business, didn't they? U-S-A, U-S-A, U-S-A...has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

mgtr
08-10-2012, 07:31 PM
Of course I couldn't be on the court with any of these guys. But I sure would not want to be in the middle when LeBron decides to drive and dunk -- talk about a freight train! Wow, just wow.

-bdbd
08-10-2012, 07:56 PM
I just watched the 4th quarter, but it was surely fun, if a little sloppy by then (lead varied from about 20-30). The color guy, who sounded like Hubie Brown, was effusive in his praise and obvious respect for K.

He said some nice things about Duke BB too. They showed a graphic re. how this is such a great scoring team - all of the top-7 NBA scorers by average and one other top-10 guy. Hubie explained that K likes to give his players lots of freedom on offense, relating the story the K, in responding to criticism of this Olympic team, simply responded that he didn't want guys questioning their own shots, and "that's our identity." The announcers, who were in full "filler" mode at this point of the game, contrasted that with the U.S. Olympic team from Greece which "couldn't throw the ball in the Mediterranean." Hubie said that was that team's undoing - horrible outside shooting. Then Hubie pivoted to say that, while "all that scoring is nice," but "at Duke coach K expects all of his players to play great defense too. And if they don't play D, then they don't play. ...The same goes for this team." They went on to discuss how tough the U.S.'s perimeter D was going to be for Spain. Nice sequence.

It'll be interesting to see what K strategizes to match up with Spain's front line, "the best in the tournament" they said.

'hoping that Mr. Parker and Mr. Randle were listening (about K)...

:rolleyes:

pfrduke
08-10-2012, 09:14 PM
The color guy, who sounded like Hubie Brown, was effusive in his praise and obvious respect for K.

Didn't watch today's game, but Doug Collins has been doing color for most of the Olympics, so it was likely him.

devildeac
08-10-2012, 10:21 PM
My wife thought Doc Rivers was one of the commentators. She had flashbacks to this past season and she was hammered by the middle of the second quarter :o. (jk)

roywhite
08-10-2012, 11:51 PM
My wife thought Doc Rivers was one of the commentators. She had flashbacks to this past season and she was hammered by the middle of the second quarter :o. (jk)

Actually, Doc has been doing commentary on some of the NBC Olympic channels, including the basketball channel, which is 752 on DirecTV.

He's doing a good job....as expected.

Billy Dat
08-11-2012, 12:11 AM
74-57 at the end of three. Lebron is clearly the best player in the world. Durant is clearly the second best. Luckily, they both play for team USA. There is no question that Lebron is the leader on this team when they're on the court. There's nothing he can't do. It seems that the other guys are buying into this, as the Lebron orchestrated third quarter offense looked great. Meanwhile, Durant is so hot from outside it's just silly.

COYS - thanks for holding down the fort. I had to watch hours after the game was over so I was avoiding DBR for fear of finding out the score. I think you covered what happened very well.

These other Olympic teams don't play great defense. While other teams get the occasional open 3 against Team USA, we consistently get open 3s without working very hard for them. With the players we have this year, especially Melo and Durant, we knock that shot down all the time. Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Kobe are all shooting it pretty well, too. When you run the offense through Lebron and he draws all that attention, we really get open 3s. It's really impressive. I bet we'll take another 30 against Spain.

Argentina seemed like they ran out of gas in the 3rd quarter. Ginobili even airballed a 3. The Russia v Argentina game should be solid.