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View Full Version : Caltech vacates e^(i*pi) + 1 wins



SoCalDukeFan
07-15-2012, 10:25 AM
While some think they NCAA has not enough to punish schools like Miami, UNC-CH, Ohio State, they don't slap the wrists of every school.

The mighty Cal Tech Beavers are on probation!!!!! (http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/basketball/la-sp-plaschke-cal-tech-20120715,0,4643830.column)!


SoCal

dukelifer
07-15-2012, 01:59 PM
Some teams will go to any lengths to lose and lose big. Sad really.

wilko
07-15-2012, 02:09 PM
Clearly this is a case of the boosters coming up with too little of a bribe.

loran16
07-15-2012, 02:42 PM
This has got to be a new one.

OldPhiKap
07-15-2012, 02:42 PM
The NCAA is a bad joke.

hurleyfor3
07-15-2012, 02:46 PM
The thread title is incorrect. Caltech is self-imposing this punishment and nothing in the article indicates any inquiry from the NCAA.

However, I can't think of anything clever to change the title to. And I'm probably the biggest math geek here.

EDIT: OK, just thought of one, let's see how it looks.

cspan37421
07-15-2012, 03:20 PM
This surprises me for a couple reasons. First, it seems to me that Caltech is not alone in having "course shopping periods" - I'm pretty sure Yale does it, for instance, so I think this would affect them as well.

Second, how is a full course load defined? I thought one of the reasons we'd often see men's BB players around Durham in the summer was that they could take a course or two in the summer session and therefore not have to take four in the fall & spring to keep on track for graduation in four years. I don't even know if they did this, but if I were in their shoes, I'd sure want it that way from the time & energy commitment of a big-time BB program. If they're taking 4 in the fall and 4 in the spring AND practicing/playing top 25 (often top 10) BB from Nov-March (even more, really), well, they're even more amazing than I thought they were. And I already thought they were quite amazing.

Bluedog
07-15-2012, 06:07 PM
Add/Drop as an NCAA Violation. This has got to be a new one.


This surprises me for a couple reasons. First, it seems to me that Caltech is not alone in having "course shopping periods" - I'm pretty sure Yale does it, for instance, so I think this would affect them as well.

Duke also has an add/drop period.


Second, how is a full course load defined? I thought one of the reasons we'd often see men's BB players around Durham in the summer was that they could take a course or two in the summer session and therefore not have to take four in the fall & spring to keep on track for graduation in four years.

Yeah, I recall Matt Leinert only took 2 courses his second semester senior year and one was ballroom dancing because he fulfilled all his other graduation requirements. Something seems off...The article must be missing some details. I will say that CalTech has by far the strictest requirements for EVERY student of any school in the country that I know of. Their math/science/technical requirements across the entire student body are unlike any other school; far more demanding than MIT, for instance. As a student-athlete there, there is definitely no easy curriculum or Swahili courses to take. ;)

SoCalDukeFan
07-15-2012, 07:11 PM
The thread title is incorrect. Caltech is self-imposing this punishment and nothing in the article indicates any inquiry from the NCAA.

However, I can't think of anything clever to change the title to. And I'm probably the biggest math geek here.

EDIT: OK, just thought of one, let's see how it looks.

Cal Tech did self report but NCAA added to the punishment.

"
Caltech initially decided to punish itself by placing a 2012-13 postseason ban on 12 sports, vacating wins achieved by teams using ineligible athletes during that four-year period, eliminating off-campus recruiting for the upcoming school year and paying a $5,000 fine.

That should have been enough, but, of course, the knucklehead NCAA jumped in with that public censure and three-year probation. One would think officials there could have quietly shooed Mitchell away after she devised their own penalties, but, oh no, monstrous Penn State thus far goes untouched while Division III Caltech gets publicly ripped."

SoCal

cspan37421
07-15-2012, 08:28 PM
Cal Tech did self report but NCAA added to the punishment.

SoCal

Any word on what's going to happen to Cleveland State? I have to think they're next. You have to set an example with these smaller programs to put the big boys on notice. :rolleyes:

PackMan97
07-15-2012, 09:50 PM
Add/Drop as an NCAA Violation.

This has got to be a new one.


It wasn't Add/Drop it was....Add.

I imagine other schools (such as Yale) do Add/Drop and make sure their athletes are always at or above the minimum required. In this case, Cal Tech athletes were no adding courses until three weeks in, so they could be at 3 hours, 6 hours or even zero hours officially registered...and then Adding them before the three week shopping period is up. This was a the violation. Having athletes with less than full time loads OFFICIALLY on the books the first three weeks of class.

Of course, they could have just made up fake courses to add them to while they shopped for real courses and everything would have been ok.

kmspeaks
07-17-2012, 12:25 AM
This surprises me for a couple reasons. First, it seems to me that Caltech is not alone in having "course shopping periods" - I'm pretty sure Yale does it, for instance, so I think this would affect them as well.

Second, how is a full course load defined? I thought one of the reasons we'd often see men's BB players around Durham in the summer was that they could take a course or two in the summer session and therefore not have to take four in the fall & spring to keep on track for graduation in four years. I don't even know if they did this, but if I were in their shoes, I'd sure want it that way from the time & energy commitment of a big-time BB program. If they're taking 4 in the fall and 4 in the spring AND practicing/playing top 25 (often top 10) BB from Nov-March (even more, really), well, they're even more amazing than I thought they were. And I already thought they were quite amazing.


Duke also has an add/drop period.



Yeah, I recall Matt Leinert only took 2 courses his second semester senior year and one was ballroom dancing because he fulfilled all his other graduation requirements. Something seems off...The article must be missing some details. I will say that CalTech has by far the strictest requirements for EVERY student of any school in the country that I know of. Their math/science/technical requirements across the entire student body are unlike any other school; far more demanding than MIT, for instance. As a student-athlete there, there is definitely no easy curriculum or Swahili courses to take. ;)

This is from memory when I was in school (05-09) and had to sit in a boring meeting for a couple hours every fall where they explained eligibility to us so take it for what it's worth.

12 hours is a full course load. You have to earn 24 hours a year. Summer classes (max of 6 hours) can be counted towards that 24 if you fail a class but you can't take 9 hours/semester and then make it up in the summer.

The 12 hour requirement is lifted if it's your last semester and you have met all other requirements for graduation.

Our school gave varsity athletes 1 credit hour per year for playing their sport. There was a kid on the golf team who had met all requirements so his last semester the only course on his transcript was varsity golf. He had 0 classes, just played golf and hung out.

cspan37421
07-17-2012, 06:45 AM
12 hours is a full course load. You have to earn 24 hours a year. Summer classes (max of 6 hours) can be counted towards that 24 if you fail a class but you can't take 9 hours/semester and then make it up in the summer.

Just to be clear, you're not talking about Duke, are you? AFAIK, Duke still goes by "semester course credits" (not hours) and a full load would be 4 of them per semester.

I'm curious if - at Duke - you could do 2 in the summer and then 3 each in spring or fall.

sagegrouse
07-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Here's the NY Times' Joe Nocera (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/opinion/a-just-penalty-for-penn-state.html?_r=1&ref=opinion), a frequent critic of the NCAA, on the juxtaposition of Penn State and CalTech.

There is a back story here that I have not seen addressed and which I have only read about. (My only visit to CalTech was to make a presentation to some venture capitalists at the faculty club.)

But, in effect, CalTech has made wrenching changes to its academic policies to try to reduce the stress on a hypercompetitive student body. In the past there was widespread depression and a high suicide incidence among CalTech freshmen, due to the Institute-imposed and self-imposed academic burdens. First, I read that CalTech has eliminated grades for freshman year. Second, it has introduced a drop-add shopping period for course. Both are designed IMHO (where the H is silent) to produce better and more successful students at one of the US's finest technical universities.

On top of that is that CalTech has fewer than 1,000 undergraduates, does not offer athletic scholarships, and almost never wins games at anything.

If I were in the NCAA's position, I would have called a halt to any investigation and tried to find a way to jigger the rules to let CalTech stay in compliance while operating the Institute in the way it believes is best for its students. Then I would grant retroactive approval of past practices. Do you really think that Occidental, a school that recently lost a basketball game to CalTech, has the guts to press the NCAA for a forfeit?

sagegrouse

burnspbesq
07-17-2012, 02:03 PM
Do you really think that Occidental, a school that recently lost a basketball game to CalTech, has the guts to press the NCAA for a forfeit?

sagegrouse

According to Plaschke, no ineligible players played for Caltech in the win over Oxy, so it doesn't have to be vacated.

Also, Caltech self-reported, making it difficult for the NCAA to turn a blind eye.