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View Full Version : Duke-UK to start the season!



UrinalCake
07-11-2012, 01:25 PM
I thought this deserved its own thread. Duke and Kentucky will face off on November 13th to kick off the season, as part of an all-day bacchanalia of hoops in which ESPN will broadcast twelve games over a 24-hour period. I love this idea. Even though Kentucky is a completely different team than the one that just won the title, it will be a great early test for us (and them) in a high-pressure, media hyped kind of environment. And I can't believe we haven't played them since 2001.


link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8156731/michigan-state-spartans-kansas-jayhawks-duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-lead-12-13-openers)

Jderf
07-11-2012, 01:29 PM
No BBQ?

Indoor66
07-11-2012, 01:48 PM
No BBQ?

A wasted thread.

CameronBornAndBred
07-11-2012, 02:04 PM
Even though Kentucky is a completely different team than the one that just won the title

With Cal's recruiting philosophy and the everlasting pursuit of the one and done's, Kentucky's teams will be completely different every year.

ricks68
07-11-2012, 02:07 PM
A wasted thread.

First time ever had bad BBQ at Kreuz Market. Got to get to Snow's this summer.

ricks

Indoor66
07-11-2012, 02:20 PM
First time ever had bad BBQ at Kreuz Market. Got to get to Snow's this summer.

ricks

I go to Dixie Pig on Dixie Highway, south of Oakland park Blvd....

OldPhiKap
07-11-2012, 02:29 PM
Wonder when tickets go on sale.

I'm so there. MSU-KU should be a tasty opener.

duketaylor
07-11-2012, 04:20 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8156731/michigan-state-spartans-kansas-jayhawks-duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats-lead-12-13-openers

Was looking to see if it was a 'Cue thread as well.

BD80
07-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Screw the 'cue, this is basketball baby!

crote
07-11-2012, 06:47 PM
Any early intel on Kentucky? I assume their starting lineup will be something like:

1 Ryan Harrow (RS SO)
2 Archie Goodwin (FR)
3 Alex Polythress (FR)
4 Kyle Witljer (SO)
5 Nerlens Noel (FR)

That's an intriguing lineup that could end up being very good, but probably not as good as last year.

The bench is a little suspect. From what I gather, Kentucky only has two other scholarship players (surely that can't be right?), Jon Hood (either SR or RS JR, not sure) and Willie Cauley (FR). Scout has Cauley's as a 4 star center, whatever that's worth. Hood was a top-50 like prospect coming out of high school but has been understandably buried behind talent his first two years and blew out his ACL last year. Not sure what he brings to the table.

Hood and Wiltjer are the only players still around from Kentucky's last three recruiting classes, with everyone else either transferring (1 player), going pro early (11), or graduating (2, who were JUCO guys). For comparison's sake, Duke has eight guys still around from that period, two early entrants, and one transfer.

BD80
07-11-2012, 07:05 PM
... From what I gather, Kentucky only has two other scholarship players (surely that can't be right?) ...

Patience, today is the day that free agents can officially sign. Calipari has been busy recruiting the Dominican Republic team during the recruiting "dead" period, and they play Team USA tomorrow. Then he can start negotiating contracts to fill out his squad.

gumbomoop
07-11-2012, 07:51 PM
Any early intel on Kentucky? I assume their starting lineup will be something like:

1 Ryan Harrow (RS SO)
2 Archie Goodwin (FR)
3 Alex Polythress (FR)
4 Kyle Witljer (SO)
5 Nerlens Noel (FR)

That's an intriguing lineup that could end up being very good, but probably not as good as last year.

The bench is a little suspect. From what I gather, Kentucky only has two other scholarship players (surely that can't be right?), Jon Hood (either SR or RS JR, not sure) and Willie Cauley (FR). Scout has Cauley's as a 4 star center, whatever that's worth. Hood was a top-50 like prospect coming out of high school but has been understandably buried behind talent his first two years and blew out his ACL last year. Not sure what he brings to the table.

Hood and Wiltjer are the only players still around from Kentucky's last three recruiting classes, with everyone else either transferring (1 player), going pro early (11), or graduating (2, who were JUCO guys). For comparison's sake, Duke has eight guys still around from that period, two early entrants, and one transfer.

UK picked up a valuable late addition, combo guard Julius Mays, ex-NCSt, then on to Wright St where he averaged 14 ppg last season. I think he's one of those grad players allowed to transfer and play immediately by enrolling in a grad program not offered at Wright St. Or something.

Your overall impression is correct, IMO. UK's big problem next season is depth, esp quality depth. Their young starters can play, but it's hard to see Harrow playing 35 mpg. That Poythress, a Duke target, wound up at UK is a bummer. He's very, very good.

ForkFondler
07-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Screw the 'cue, this is basketball baby!

Can't we have both?

OldPhiKap
07-11-2012, 09:33 PM
Can't we have both?

Lexington Barbeque is the best, but it ain't in Kentucky.

UrinalCake
07-11-2012, 09:57 PM
In ESPN's most recent preseason rankings (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7801992/indiana-hoosiers-lead-revised-top-25-plenty-changes-elsewhere) (which are from April 24, and which they openly admit are very early guesses and borderline useless) they have Kentucky ranked 3 and us at 15. They must really be expecting Noel to be a game changer. I can't wait to see Mason go up against him. I was never all that impressed with Harrow; I guess we'll get a better look at how well Calipari can actually coach this year now that he doesn't have an entire roster full of blue-chippers.

BlueDevil16
07-11-2012, 10:07 PM
In ESPN's most recent preseason rankings (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7801992/indiana-hoosiers-lead-revised-top-25-plenty-changes-elsewhere) (which are from April 24, and which they openly admit are very early guesses and borderline useless) they have Kentucky ranked 3 and us at 15. They must really be expecting Noel to be a game changer. I can't wait to see Mason go up against him. I was never all that impressed with Harrow; I guess we'll get a better look at how well Calipari can actually coach this year now that he doesn't have an entire roster full of blue-chippers.

I don't think UK will be bad, but I don't see them as an elite team this year like last. Someone posted Noel's HS stats and they didn't really impress me, he struggles offensively I believe and while hes a solid player, hes no Anthony Davis or number one pick imho

licc85
07-11-2012, 10:20 PM
In ESPN's most recent preseason rankings (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7801992/indiana-hoosiers-lead-revised-top-25-plenty-changes-elsewhere) (which are from April 24, and which they openly admit are very early guesses and borderline useless) they have Kentucky ranked 3 and us at 15. They must really be expecting Noel to be a game changer. I can't wait to see Mason go up against him. I was never all that impressed with Harrow; I guess we'll get a better look at how well Calipari can actually coach this year now that he doesn't have an entire roster full of blue-chippers.

Huh?? How are we #15?? More importantly, how are we ranked below UNC?? McAdoo is like the only proven guy they have. We are starting 3 seniors next year . . doesn't that count for anything anymore? We lost Austin and Miles (and MG/Dawkins), but gained Murphy, Sulaimon, MP3, and Amile, that comes out as a wash as far as I'm concerned. Katz must not know about Murphy and Sulaimon, who I think will both be special. (In fact, he didn't even mention Murphy) We should be top 10 at least. I definitely see us winning this game vs UK, due to their lack of experience this early in the year.

BlueDevil16
07-11-2012, 11:07 PM
The beginning of the season is definitely key with a really inexperienced line up, if this game was in late Dec/early January it could be a different story. Still expect it to be close, but think that we currently are the favorite (albiet not in the eyes of the public)

ricks68
07-11-2012, 11:09 PM
Lexington Barbeque is the best, but it ain't in Kentucky.

But you have to know to order the coarse chopped with some of the outside brown. Do not forget that.

(Snow's is still even better, but I would venture a guess that no one else on this board has ever been there----------not even the other posters residing in Texas.)


Oh, and for the uninitiated poster that said that this is a basketball board and not a BBQ board, I would use some caution in that respect in the future. Them kinds 'a words might just draw an infraction. Duke vs Kentucky is always on topic around here.:D


ricks

ricks68
07-11-2012, 11:13 PM
Hold on here. I just noticed that BD80 made the negative Que statement. What's going on here? That' not right.:confused:

ricks

BD80
07-11-2012, 11:22 PM
Hold on here. I just noticed that BD80 made the negative Que statement. What's going on here? That' not right.:confused:

ricks

Que belongs in the Duke v Ky thread! I mean, well, the OTHER Duke v Ky thread!

I'm just jealous. You would weep at what passes for barbeque in Michigan.

ricks68
07-12-2012, 02:00 AM
Que belongs in the Duke v Ky thread! I mean, well, the OTHER Duke v Ky thread!

I'm just jealous. You would weep at what passes for barbeque in Michigan.

OMG! I feel so sorry for you. All is forgiven. Maybe you could drive a few hours (that's anything under 6 for us in Texas) and grab a Chicago pizza to relieve some of your angst every once in a while.;)

ricks

crote
07-12-2012, 02:21 AM
UK picked up a valuable late addition, combo guard Julius Mays, ex-NCSt, then on to Wright St where he averaged 14 ppg last season. I think he's one of those grad players allowed to transfer and play immediately by enrolling in a grad program not offered at Wright St. Or something.

Your overall impression is correct, IMO. UK's big problem next season is depth, esp quality depth. Their young starters can play, but it's hard to see Harrow playing 35 mpg. That Poythress, a Duke target, wound up at UK is a bummer. He's very, very good.

I'd forgotten about Mays. He'll be really useful for them, if only as another body.

If I was a Kentucky fan I'd be most worried about depth inside. Even if Noel is a total stud, they don't have any other proven commodities down there. I listed Wiltjer as a 4 but he seems to be more of a natural wing. Same situation with Hood. Polythress and Cauley are unknowns. None of them seem like clear candidates to spell Noel. Between MP 2 & 3, Ryan, Josh, and Jefferson, I think our height could be a significant advantage. Even if we struggle with Noel we'll have the depth just to throw bodies at him and make his job a pain.

COYS
07-12-2012, 10:18 AM
Mason vs. Noel will be a very interesting matchup. Mason is the more polished offensive player, obviously. But Noel has an overall length advantage and the rep as an excellent (possibly a better shot blocker than Davis!) though undisciplined defender. Hopefully Mason can make Noel's inexperience an advantage by getting him into foul trouble.

The other interesting matchup will be Poythross vs. whichever one of our guys emerges at the three. I'd have to think Alex has an edge with a year in the system and high praise from Coach K. Poythross is very strong and quick for a freshman, but Alex also has the rep of being very mobile. At any rate, we'll get to see right off the bat if this year's team is better at guarding big wing players than last year's team.

Witjer vs. Ryan will be very interesting as well. They are similar players, in many regards. Both guys are tall players who are excellent free throw shooters and mediocre rebounders. We'll get to see how Witjer looks with more minutes and whether or not Ryan's experience proves to be a difference maker (I think it will).

Of course, we will all be interested to know how the staff decides to fill the guard spots. Will a healthy and more explosive Quinn claim the PG spot from day 1? Will we still need Tyler's toughness to set the tone at the opening tip? Or, will Rasheed emerge as a dynamic defender from day one, making a lack of a pure point less of an issue as the RS senior Seth will be able to manage the game well enough? There are a lot of interesting questions here, and whoever we go with will have to slow down Harrow, who, despite his flaws, is definitely very quick. Which brings me to my last point.

Duke's X-factor is Rasheed. Will Rasheed's defense demand a spot in the rotation from the get-go? His speed might be necessary against the quick Harrow (with whom we're already familiar). His length might be dynamic at the 2-guard spot, allowing him to keep up with positions 1-3 off of switches. While Ryan and Mason might not be the fastest defenders, laterally, a lineup with Quinn, Alex, and Rasheed has the potential to bring Duke back to the aggressive man-to-man of old (well, not THAT old, but as we were able to play it when Kyrie was healthy two years ago). I'm not saying we'll see that lineup all the time, but if those three can emerge as dynamic players on both sides of the ball led by Rasheed's defense, it would represent a dramatic departure from the defense we saw last season and could be very effective in spurts.

Honestly, there's not a better opening season game for us, in my opinion. Win and the team gains confidence. Lose and we get to start working on our weaknesses right away. Duke has a lot of experienced players returning, but I imagine that the team will LOOK completely different on both sides of the ball. The season is a journey just like any other. But this one will begin with a bang!

75Crazie
07-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Que belongs in the Duke v Ky thread! I mean, well, the OTHER Duke v Ky thread!

I'm just jealous. You would weep at what passes for barbeque in Michigan.
I hope it's not as bad as what we get here in Colorado.

devildeac
07-12-2012, 11:07 PM
I hope it's not as bad as what we get here in Colorado.

Buffalo 'cue? And I don't mean the city in upstate NY:rolleyes:.

-bdbd
07-13-2012, 12:10 AM
Huh?? How are we #15?? More importantly, how are we ranked below UNC?? McAdoo is like the only proven guy they have. We are starting 3 seniors next year . . doesn't that count for anything anymore? We lost Austin and Miles (and MG/Dawkins), but gained Murphy, Sulaimon, MP3, and Amile, that comes out as a wash as far as I'm concerned. Katz must not know about Murphy and Sulaimon, who I think will both be special. (In fact, he didn't even mention Murphy) We should be top 10 at least. I definitely see us winning this game vs UK, due to their lack of experience this early in the year.

Wouldn't April have put that before the Amile Jefferson signinging and possibly even the MP2 decision to return, which was maybe a surprise for some... Hey, I say (erroneously) low expectations are a GOOD thing!

;)

UrinalCake
07-13-2012, 12:15 AM
Wouldn't April have put that before the Amile Jefferson signinging and possibly even the MP2 decision to return, which was maybe a surprise for some... Hey, I say (erroneously) low expectations are a GOOD thing!

;)

When the rankings were posted we knew that Austin was gone and Mason was coming back. It was unclear whether Dawkins would redshirt, and we didn't have Jefferson. The article didn't mention Murphy but did mention Marshall (as "another Plumlee").

I think the author's feeling was that we were going to be mostly the same team as last year, minus Austin. Since the stench of the tournament was still in the air, it's not unreasonable to put us at 15 IMO. We'll need to prove that the returning guys have improved and the newcomers are legit before people will believe it.

-bdbd
07-13-2012, 12:20 AM
I like Duke's experience (and talent) over a talented, INexperienced KY squad early in the season.
I really see Senior Mason winning out over Frosh Noel generally. Experience tells.
Poythross vs. Murphy (or Jefferson). Will Poythress be able/willing to repeatedly go inside with him? Isn't that a big part of why we pulled back on the recruitment - his hesitation about going inside?
Witjer vs. Ryan - Close match-up, but I don't see Duke at any disadvantage here.
I really like Duke's deeeeeeep guard rotation, especially as you get into the 2nd half of a close game, with Cook and Seth starting, but serious minutes for Rasheed and TT. In fact, I see this as an interesting match-up for the two coaches, but would think that Duke's depth will ultimately be telling, both interior and perimeter depth.

I really think Duke wins this going away in early Nov. Now, a rematch in March might be more disconcerting...... :rolleyes:


Mason vs. Noel will be a very interesting matchup. Mason is the more polished offensive player, obviously. But Noel has an overall length advantage and the rep as an excellent (possibly a better shot blocker than Davis!) though undisciplined defender. Hopefully Mason can make Noel's inexperience an advantage by getting him into foul trouble.

The other interesting matchup will be Poythross vs. whichever one of our guys emerges at the three. I'd have to think Alex has an edge with a year in the system and high praise from Coach K. Poythross is very strong and quick for a freshman, but Alex also has the rep of being very mobile. At any rate, we'll get to see right off the bat if this year's team is better at guarding big wing players than last year's team.

Witjer vs. Ryan will be very interesting as well. They are similar players, in many regards. Both guys are tall players who are excellent free throw shooters and mediocre rebounders. We'll get to see how Witjer looks with more minutes and whether or not Ryan's experience proves to be a difference maker (I think it will).

Of course, we will all be interested to know how the staff decides to fill the guard spots. Will a healthy and more explosive Quinn claim the PG spot from day 1? Will we still need Tyler's toughness to set the tone at the opening tip? Or, will Rasheed emerge as a dynamic defender from day one, making a lack of a pure point less of an issue as the RS senior Seth will be able to manage the game well enough? There are a lot of interesting questions here, and whoever we go with will have to slow down Harrow, who, despite his flaws, is definitely very quick. Which brings me to my last point.

Duke's X-factor is Rasheed. Will Rasheed's defense demand a spot in the rotation from the get-go? His speed might be necessary against the quick Harrow (with whom we're already familiar). His length might be dynamic at the 2-guard spot, allowing him to keep up with positions 1-3 off of switches. While Ryan and Mason might not be the fastest defenders, laterally, a lineup with Quinn, Alex, and Rasheed has the potential to bring Duke back to the aggressive man-to-man of old (well, not THAT old, but as we were able to play it when Kyrie was healthy two years ago). I'm not saying we'll see that lineup all the time, but if those three can emerge as dynamic players on both sides of the ball led by Rasheed's defense, it would represent a dramatic departure from the defense we saw last season and could be very effective in spurts.

Honestly, there's not a better opening season game for us, in my opinion. Win and the team gains confidence. Lose and we get to start working on our weaknesses right away. Duke has a lot of experienced players returning, but I imagine that the team will LOOK completely different on both sides of the ball. The season is a journey just like any other. But this one will begin with a bang!

DukieTiger
07-13-2012, 12:29 AM
Mason vs. Noel will be a very interesting matchup. Mason is the more polished offensive player, obviously. But Noel has an overall length advantage and the rep as an excellent (possibly a better shot blocker than Davis!) though undisciplined defender. Hopefully Mason can make Noel's inexperience an advantage by getting him into foul trouble.

The other interesting matchup will be Poythross vs. whichever one of our guys emerges at the three. I'd have to think Alex has an edge with a year in the system and high praise from Coach K. Poythross is very strong and quick for a freshman, but Alex also has the rep of being very mobile. At any rate, we'll get to see right off the bat if this year's team is better at guarding big wing players than last year's team.

Witjer vs. Ryan will be very interesting as well. They are similar players, in many regards. Both guys are tall players who are excellent free throw shooters and mediocre rebounders. We'll get to see how Witjer looks with more minutes and whether or not Ryan's experience proves to be a difference maker (I think it will).

Of course, we will all be interested to know how the staff decides to fill the guard spots. Will a healthy and more explosive Quinn claim the PG spot from day 1? Will we still need Tyler's toughness to set the tone at the opening tip? Or, will Rasheed emerge as a dynamic defender from day one, making a lack of a pure point less of an issue as the RS senior Seth will be able to manage the game well enough? There are a lot of interesting questions here, and whoever we go with will have to slow down Harrow, who, despite his flaws, is definitely very quick. Which brings me to my last point.

Duke's X-factor is Rasheed. Will Rasheed's defense demand a spot in the rotation from the get-go? His speed might be necessary against the quick Harrow (with whom we're already familiar). His length might be dynamic at the 2-guard spot, allowing him to keep up with positions 1-3 off of switches. While Ryan and Mason might not be the fastest defenders, laterally, a lineup with Quinn, Alex, and Rasheed has the potential to bring Duke back to the aggressive man-to-man of old (well, not THAT old, but as we were able to play it when Kyrie was healthy two years ago). I'm not saying we'll see that lineup all the time, but if those three can emerge as dynamic players on both sides of the ball led by Rasheed's defense, it would represent a dramatic departure from the defense we saw last season and could be very effective in spurts.

Honestly, there's not a better opening season game for us, in my opinion. Win and the team gains confidence. Lose and we get to start working on our weaknesses right away. Duke has a lot of experienced players returning, but I imagine that the team will LOOK completely different on both sides of the ball. The season is a journey just like any other. But this one will begin with a bang!

In the Poythress vs. Murphy matchup, I DEFINITELY give the edge to Alex. :cool:

Bay Area Duke Fan
07-13-2012, 12:45 AM
First game of 2012-13 season is on November 9th at Cameron against Georgia State.

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2012/06/20/georgia-state-will-play-duke-in-mens-basketball/

licc85
07-13-2012, 02:40 AM
Mason vs. Noel will be a very interesting matchup. Mason is the more polished offensive player, obviously. But Noel has an overall length advantage and the rep as an excellent (possibly a better shot blocker than Davis!) though undisciplined defender. Hopefully Mason can make Noel's inexperience an advantage by getting him into foul trouble.

The other interesting matchup will be Poythross vs. whichever one of our guys emerges at the three. I'd have to think Alex has an edge with a year in the system and high praise from Coach K. Poythross is very strong and quick for a freshman, but Alex also has the rep of being very mobile. At any rate, we'll get to see right off the bat if this year's team is better at guarding big wing players than last year's team.

Witjer vs. Ryan will be very interesting as well. They are similar players, in many regards. Both guys are tall players who are excellent free throw shooters and mediocre rebounders. We'll get to see how Witjer looks with more minutes and whether or not Ryan's experience proves to be a difference maker (I think it will).

Of course, we will all be interested to know how the staff decides to fill the guard spots. Will a healthy and more explosive Quinn claim the PG spot from day 1? Will we still need Tyler's toughness to set the tone at the opening tip? Or, will Rasheed emerge as a dynamic defender from day one, making a lack of a pure point less of an issue as the RS senior Seth will be able to manage the game well enough? There are a lot of interesting questions here, and whoever we go with will have to slow down Harrow, who, despite his flaws, is definitely very quick. Which brings me to my last point.

Duke's X-factor is Rasheed. Will Rasheed's defense demand a spot in the rotation from the get-go? His speed might be necessary against the quick Harrow (with whom we're already familiar). His length might be dynamic at the 2-guard spot, allowing him to keep up with positions 1-3 off of switches. While Ryan and Mason might not be the fastest defenders, laterally, a lineup with Quinn, Alex, and Rasheed has the potential to bring Duke back to the aggressive man-to-man of old (well, not THAT old, but as we were able to play it when Kyrie was healthy two years ago). I'm not saying we'll see that lineup all the time, but if those three can emerge as dynamic players on both sides of the ball led by Rasheed's defense, it would represent a dramatic departure from the defense we saw last season and could be very effective in spurts.

Honestly, there's not a better opening season game for us, in my opinion. Win and the team gains confidence. Lose and we get to start working on our weaknesses right away. Duke has a lot of experienced players returning, but I imagine that the team will LOOK completely different on both sides of the ball. The season is a journey just like any other. But this one will begin with a bang!

Mason SHOULD be able to keep up with Noel, and at least outplay him on offense (At least I hope a 4-year player/2 year starter at Duke with 1st team All-ACC aspirations can stay with a guy fresh out of HS)

Alex Murphy was orignally ranked in the top 15 in the class of 2012 before he reclassified (I believe he was no.12, but I could be wrong) Poythress is ranked no.7, and probably has an athleticism advantage, but Murphy has the experience advantage, having played against college level athletes and international players this past year. I see this as almost an even match up, maybe slightly favoring UK due to Poythress' apparent 1st-round NBA talent.

Kelly, in my opinion, is strictly better in every aspect of the game than Kyle Wiltjer. Better shooter, better ball handler, better rebounder, better basketball IQ. Both are equally slow on defense, but I think Kelly is slightly bigger, has better hands, and has 2 years of college experience, including a year of starters minutes. Kelly wins this matchup easily.

UK will likely start Archie Goodwin and Ryan Harrow. Goodwin was ranked 2 spots below Rasheed on Scout.com, and both are 6-4, 180. I guess that's just about as close as it gets. However, Rasheed is unlikely to start this game. Instead, we have a 5th year senior who is one of the best shooters in the nation. Harrow is undersized like Quinn, but more athletic, yet lacks Quinn's court vision and ball skills. They have no one who compares to TT, maybe that little white dude who comes in for 2 minutes a game? Yeah . . not TT. We have more options at guard. I think we win the back court battle, no problem.

It will be close, they are more athletic than us, especially up front, but we have the depth in both the front court and back court to keep our guys fresh and to give them different looks on defense. In terms of talent, it's very close, but I think overall, we have more as a team than they do. Not to mention we have alot of guys who have played together for years. We SHOULD win this game.

So . . how the hell are we ranked #15 when we are deeper, and I would argue, more talented than the #3 team? (seriously overrated) Even in April, I would have put us at LEAST as high up as UK, but definitely higher up than UNC. I think we are closer to #6-8 than 15, and UK is like #8-10

slower
07-13-2012, 07:48 AM
I really think Duke wins this going away in early Nov.

Well, you have approx. 4 months to think about that. "Going away"? Hmmm...

slower
07-13-2012, 08:02 AM
Mason SHOULD be able to keep up with Noel, and at least outplay him on offense (At least I hope a 4-year player/2 year starter at Duke with 1st team All-ACC aspirations can stay with a guy fresh out of HS)

Alex Murphy was orignally ranked in the top 15 in the class of 2012 before he reclassified (I believe he was no.12, but I could be wrong) Poythress is ranked no.7, and probably has an athleticism advantage, but Murphy has the experience advantage, having played against college level athletes and international players this past year. I see this as almost an even match up, maybe slightly favoring UK due to Poythress' apparent 1st-round NBA talent.

Kelly, in my opinion, is strictly better in every aspect of the game than Kyle Wiltjer. Better shooter, better ball handler, better rebounder, better basketball IQ. Both are equally slow on defense, but I think Kelly is slightly bigger, has better hands, and has 2 years of college experience, including a year of starters minutes. Kelly wins this matchup easily.

UK will likely start Archie Goodwin and Ryan Harrow. Goodwin was ranked 2 spots below Rasheed on Scout.com, and both are 6-4, 180. I guess that's just about as close as it gets. However, Rasheed is unlikely to start this game. Instead, we have a 5th year senior who is one of the best shooters in the nation. Harrow is undersized like Quinn, but more athletic, yet lacks Quinn's court vision and ball skills. They have no one who compares to TT, maybe that little white dude who comes in for 2 minutes a game? Yeah . . not TT. We have more options at guard. I think we win the back court battle, no problem.

It will be close, they are more athletic than us, especially up front, but we have the depth in both the front court and back court to keep our guys fresh and to give them different looks on defense. In terms of talent, it's very close, but I think overall, we have more as a team than they do. Not to mention we have alot of guys who have played together for years. We SHOULD win this game.

So . . how the hell are we ranked #15 when we are deeper, and I would argue, more talented than the #3 team? (seriously overrated) Even in April, I would have put us at LEAST as high up as UK, but definitely higher up than UNC. I think we are closer to #6-8 than 15, and UK is like #8-10

Good analysis. I'm sure we're in for another year of speculating whether this is the year that Mason "gets it" and "makes the leap". Not saying it won't happen, but we've been saying this for several years. If he improves from last year, he'll be very solid. Noel, against high-school competition, was a complete beast. We'll see if that translates at the college level.

Murphy and Poythress seems like a wash, based on what very little we can speculate about both players.

I agree that Kelly is better than Wiltjer is almost every area.

Seems like we should have the backcourt advantage, perhaps a big one.

On paper, looks like a victory. Not so sure that we win "going away", as somebody posted.

Ichabod Drain
07-13-2012, 08:17 AM
Mason SHOULD be able to keep up with Noel, and at least outplay him on offense (At least I hope a 4-year player/2 year starter at Duke with 1st team All-ACC aspirations can stay with a guy fresh out of HS)

Alex Murphy was orignally ranked in the top 15 in the class of 2012 before he reclassified (I believe he was no.12, but I could be wrong) Poythress is ranked no.7, and probably has an athleticism advantage, but Murphy has the experience advantage, having played against college level athletes and international players this past year. I see this as almost an even match up, maybe slightly favoring UK due to Poythress' apparent 1st-round NBA talent.

Kelly, in my opinion, is strictly better in every aspect of the game than Kyle Wiltjer. Better shooter, better ball handler, better rebounder, better basketball IQ. Both are equally slow on defense, but I think Kelly is slightly bigger, has better hands, and has 2 years of college experience, including a year of starters minutes. Kelly wins this matchup easily.

UK will likely start Archie Goodwin and Ryan Harrow. Goodwin was ranked 2 spots below Rasheed on Scout.com, and both are 6-4, 180. I guess that's just about as close as it gets. However, Rasheed is unlikely to start this game. Instead, we have a 5th year senior who is one of the best shooters in the nation. Harrow is undersized like Quinn, but more athletic, yet lacks Quinn's court vision and ball skills. They have no one who compares to TT, maybe that little white dude who comes in for 2 minutes a game? Yeah . . not TT. We have more options at guard. I think we win the back court battle, no problem.

It will be close, they are more athletic than us, especially up front, but we have the depth in both the front court and back court to keep our guys fresh and to give them different looks on defense. In terms of talent, it's very close, but I think overall, we have more as a team than they do. Not to mention we have alot of guys who have played together for years. We SHOULD win this game.

So . . how the hell are we ranked #15 when we are deeper, and I would argue, more talented than the #3 team? (seriously overrated) Even in April, I would have put us at LEAST as high up as UK, but definitely higher up than UNC. I think we are closer to #6-8 than 15, and UK is like #8-10

Why are you so worried about a pre season ranking made six months before the season? And if Mason had left and Amile not signed our front court would consist of Marshall, Kelly, and Hairston...That about says it all right there. Not saying they couldn't make it work, but that's no top 10 caliber front court there.

And I'll be very happy if Seth is one of the best shooters in the country next year (and i think he can be) but as it stands he shot 38% from three last year.

mph
07-13-2012, 09:51 AM
First time ever had bad BBQ at Kreuz Market. Got to get to Snow's this summer.

ricks

Now you're talking! Kreuz is still the best brisket I've ever put in my mouth, with the caveat that I too have never made it to Snow's. I only get there once or twice a year, but I've yet to have a bad experience. Unfortunately, I'm usually traveling to Austin and the timing hasn't worked out to make a Saturday morning drive to Snow's. Took my 6 year old son on a trip to Austin last winter and he says his favorite part was our trip down to Lockhart to eat at Kreuz. Makes a father proud!

Another place to put on your Austin area list is Lamberts. It's a totally different experience from Kreuz, Smitty's, Salt Lick, etc. It's more of an upscale casual place where you wouldn't expect to find great bbq, but they do a very good brisket. To get a picture of their Sunday brunch, imagine a traditional high-end spread with the standard carving station replaced by a guy carving brown sugar and coffee rubbed brisket and maple crusted ribs.

I'd be interested to hear other recommendations for great Texas 'que which, my NC roots notwithstanding, is the highest form of the art. I'd be especially interested in recommendations in VA and NC.

UrinalCake
07-13-2012, 10:09 AM
I think the Mason-Noel battle will be key. If Noel turns out to be better than Anthony Davis, as some have claimed, then he could effectively neutralize our entire inside game. If he even shuts Mason down for a few minutes early on, then we have a tendency to just abandon our inside game. Then we turn into a jump-shooting team, which can spell trouble.

Also, while I previously stated that I wasn't all that impressed with Harrow when he was at State, he does have more experience than Quin and we proved last year that stopping dribble penetration from the guards is a weakness. If that guy from Lehigh can tear us up then Harrow could very well do the same. I guess I'm less optimistic about our chances than most; I think we have the potential to be really good but we're not there yet.

licc85
07-13-2012, 11:33 AM
I think the Mason-Noel battle will be key. If Noel turns out to be better than Anthony Davis, as some have claimed, then he could effectively neutralize our entire inside game. If he even shuts Mason down for a few minutes early on, then we have a tendency to just abandon our inside game. Then we turn into a jump-shooting team, which can spell trouble.

Also, while I previously stated that I wasn't all that impressed with Harrow when he was at State, he does have more experience than Quin and we proved last year that stopping dribble penetration from the guards is a weakness. If that guy from Lehigh can tear us up then Harrow could very well do the same. I guess I'm less optimistic about our chances than most; I think we have the potential to be really good but we're not there yet.

This is where I think not having length/quickness throughout the perimeter really hurt us last year. However, I believe that weakness has been addressed this year with the additions of Sulaimon and Murphy on the wings. While I'm certainly not going to compared them just yet to Singler and Smith, they have all the tools in terms of size and quickness to become the type of players on defense that those two were for us. I believe we will be be a MUCH improved defensive team going forward. Also, theres no way Quinn is as bad on D as he was last year. Otherwise, forget about him starting. I look for him to be much improved on defense with a full, healthy offseason this year.


Why are you so worried about a pre season ranking made six months before the season? And if Mason had left and Amile not signed our front court would consist of Marshall, Kelly, and Hairston...That about says it all right there. Not saying they couldn't make it work, but that's no top 10 caliber front court there.

And I'll be very happy if Seth is one of the best shooters in the country next year (and i think he can be) but as it stands he shot 38% from three last year.

You're right, I did kind of overreact. I forgot that this was before Mason declared his interntions to return. The fact that we were ranked below Carolina must have struck a nerve. But imo, Duke should always be ranked in the preseason top 10 as long as Coach K is around. I dont care who's playing for us, that man can coach.

ricks68
07-13-2012, 04:11 PM
Now you're talking! Kreuz is still the best brisket I've ever put in my mouth, with the caveat that I too have never made it to Snow's. I only get there once or twice a year, but I've yet to have a bad experience. Unfortunately, I'm usually traveling to Austin and the timing hasn't worked out to make a Saturday morning drive to Snow's. Took my 6 year old son on a trip to Austin last winter and he says his favorite part was our trip down to Lockhart to eat at Kreuz. Makes a father proud!

Another place to put on your Austin area list is Lamberts. It's a totally different experience from Kreuz, Smitty's, Salt Lick, etc. It's more of an upscale casual place where you wouldn't expect to find great bbq, but they do a very good brisket. To get a picture of their Sunday brunch, imagine a traditional high-end spread with the standard carving station replaced by a guy carving brown sugar and coffee rubbed brisket and maple crusted ribs.

I'd be interested to hear other recommendations for great Texas 'que which, my NC roots notwithstanding, is the highest form of the art. I'd be especially interested in recommendations in VA and NC.

I have been loyal to Kreuz for over 45 years now, but things have slightly changed since Keith took over (Rick's son). He added more sides and is emphasizing mail order and other stuff---sending their rings (links) to Hill Country in NYC (Mark Glosserman's excellent BBQ restaurant [disclaimer---my brother-in-law's cousin]). The consistency has definitely suffered. Roy is still the pitmaster and shoulder is still the basic fare, but it has become hit or miss for me on both the shoulder and the rings the past half-a-dozen times I have been there. The rings have been mealy, and I have discussed them at length with Rick over a pereiod of time. Order them "dry" he insists, but they are the same. But, remember, they lost the guy that made them to Smitty's (Rick's sister's place--the old Kreuz location). I was told about 8-10 years ago that Chisholm Trail had better rings and finally gave them a try right after that-------yep, they are vastly superior (just plain outstanding). So good that I always stop by on the way out of town to get a dozen pre-cooked for my freezer. The most outstanding thing for me at Kreuz have been the ribs the past 6-8 years. Rick figured out just the right amount of salt to cut down in the rub because of the already salty nature of the pork. The result is the most remarkable smoked pork rib taste ever---------------not considering the wonderful fall-off-the-bone categories of doctored meat. I am not a prime rib eater anymore, so I cannot comment on the constant raves Kreuz gets for that.

There are two (relatively) new BBQ joints in Austin that are the "in" places to go now that draw long lines and run out before noon. One line kinda goes down the highway and they even have a cutoff where they tell you to just go away after that person because they know where they will be out of BBQ. One is Franklin's, but the other I can't remember. Both owners have old BBQ family ties and/or experience, and actually worked together and are friends. They were a long and informative cover story in Texas Monthly this year or so (I think) ago. The reviews have been as positive as the public response. My daughter went to Franklin's and said it was really good, but I have been to neither. I won't wake up early enough to get there from Houston in time to make the line cutoff. The drive to Kreuz is about 2 hrs 20 min for me, and Austin is about another half hour.

Snow's in another matter, however. I can leave by about 8:30 and call for a to go order while driving that will set aside all of the stuff I want (secret shared with DBR BBQ readers), since they start running out of different cuts beginning at around 10:00. It's also just a short drive for us Texans at only 1 3/4 hours from Houston. Forget the ribs there, get the bisket, chicken and links. Pure smoke flavor and just the perfect amount of tender "juiciness". Links are the drier style than in Lockhart, but stand alone in that category, also. (No sauce other than Louisiana hot sauce types for any true Texas BBQ.) So far, the only Texas BBQ (other than microwaving pre-cooked rings and steaming the Kreuz ribs) that I find you can eat as leftovers that still retain the fresh-smoked flavor and meat consistency. Both the chicken and brisket are incredible when cold. (Reminds me of raiding the refrigerator for some smoked Snook when I was a kid.) I am hopefully going back next Saturday---it's only open on Saturdays until the food runs out.

(Maybe it's time to re-open the real Duke vs Kentucky thread and put all of these posts in there, mods.:))

ricks

Dukeface88
07-13-2012, 04:18 PM
Mason is the more polished offensive player, obviously.

According to Google, this sentence has never before appeared on the interwebs.

I feel congratulations are in order.

ricks68
07-13-2012, 04:30 PM
According to Google, this sentence has never before appeared on the interwebs.

I feel congratulations are in order.

Finally, another succinct statement with rose-colored glasses surely taken off. Kudos to you.

ricks

Dukeface88
07-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Finally, another succinct statement with rose-colored glasses surely taken off. Kudos to you.

ricks

Oh, I don't want to sound like I'm knocking Mason. He actually has made great strides in terms of post moves. It's just that if someone had told me three years ago (or for that matter, one year ago) that Mason would ever be described as more offensively polished than anyone, I would have laughed at them. But then, I'd also have laughed if someone told me at the beginning of 2010 that Zoubek would be the key to a national championship team.

ricks68
07-14-2012, 05:11 PM
Oh, I don't want to sound like I'm knocking Mason. He actually has made great strides in terms of post moves. It's just that if someone had told me three years ago (or for that matter, one year ago) that Mason would ever be described as more offensively polished than anyone, I would have laughed at them. But then, I'd also have laughed if someone told me at the beginning of 2010 that Zoubek would be the key to a national championship team.

I didn't take it to mean that you were knocking Mason. I just thought that you were being truly objective without a pro Duke bias. Mason is a very good bball player, but I believe he plays a little out-of-control at times on offense. He has greatly improved so far, and I expect him to be even better this year offensively. Just like Zoubs, it just takes a while longer with some players. In Zoubs' case, it turned out to be his injuries that held him back. Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better.:)

ricks

Kedsy
07-14-2012, 06:13 PM
I didn't take it to mean that you were knocking Mason. I just thought that you were being truly objective without a pro Duke bias. Mason is a very good bball player, but I believe he plays a little out-of-control at times on offense. He has greatly improved so far, and I expect him to be even better this year offensively. Just like Zoubs, it just takes a while longer with some players. In Zoubs' case, it turned out to be his injuries that held him back. Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better.:)

ricks

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be implying that Mason has been some sort of non-achieving project for the past three years. As much as I liked Brian Zoubek, before his senior year his career highs were less than 12 minutes per game, 4.1 points per game and 3.7 rebounds per game. Last season, Mason averaged almost a double-double and was third-team All ACC. And he's an Academic All-American, so I think his "head" is fine.

He perhaps hasn't so far lived up to many Duke fans' overinflated expectations, but Mason is already a great player. Saying he's more polished than an unproven freshman is certainly a reasonable statement and shouldn't be considered proof of a "pro Duke bias."

COYS
07-14-2012, 07:03 PM
I didn't take it to mean that you were knocking Mason. I just thought that you were being truly objective without a pro Duke bias. Mason is a very good bball player, but I believe he plays a little out-of-control at times on offense. He has greatly improved so far, and I expect him to be even better this year offensively. Just like Zoubs, it just takes a while longer with some players. In Zoubs' case, it turned out to be his injuries that held him back. Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better.:)

ricks

To defend my original quote a little, too, I don't believe that saying Mason is more polished offensively than Noel means having rose colored glasses on. It's just that, according to every scouting report I've seen, Noel has size and potential, but no consistent moves yet. Mason, while no Brand or Boozer, has refined his game to the point that his baby hook on either hand is a legitimate weapon, even if it hasn't become a go to weapon just yet.

johnb
07-15-2012, 12:04 AM
and Mason will look a lot more polished when he gets more passes directed at him inside rather than him trying to create his shot while guarded 15 feet from the basket...

Biscuitboy
07-15-2012, 02:53 AM
But you have to know to order the coarse chopped with some of the outside brown. Do not forget that.

(Snow's is still even better, but I would venture a guess that no one else on this board has ever been there----------not even the other posters residing in Texas.)


Oh, and for the uninitiated poster that said that this is a basketball board and not a BBQ board, I would use some caution in that respect in the future. Them kinds 'a words might just draw an infraction. Duke vs Kentucky is always on topic around here.:D


ricks

I have been to Snow's three times. Only open Saturdays until the meat runs out. Get there by 10 AM. I have made several pilgrimages to Texas for BBQ. Snows is head and shoulders at the top. They nail the three crucial categories: Brisket, ribs, and sausage. It's not even close.
Basketball and BBQ are natural compadres. In my trips back to Durham, I've always been saddened that the Bull City doesn't have any serious 'cue. Allen and Sons casts a delicious shadow.

ricks68
07-15-2012, 02:56 AM
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be implying that Mason has been some sort of non-achieving project for the past three years. As much as I liked Brian Zoubek, before his senior year his career highs were less than 12 minutes per game, 4.1 points per game and 3.7 rebounds per game. Last season, Mason averaged almost a double-double and was third-team All ACC. And he's an Academic All-American, so I think his "head" is fine.

He perhaps hasn't so far lived up to many Duke fans' overinflated expectations, but Mason is already a great player. Saying he's more polished than an unproven freshman is certainly a reasonable statement and shouldn't be considered proof of a "pro Duke bias."

O.K. I think I have been maligned enough on this thread.:mad:

If you don't want to put words in my mouth why are you putting words in my mouth? How could anyone have misconstrued: "Mason is a very good bball player, but I believe he plays a little out-of-control at times on offense. He has greatly improved so far, and I expect him to be even better this year offensively. Just like Zoubs, it just takes a while longer with some players. In Zoubs' case, it turned out to be his injuries that held him back. Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better." into: "you seem to be implying that Mason has been some sort of non-achieving project for the past three years." ????:confused:

And to clarify exactly what I meant by his "head" catching up to his atleticism, I would like to point out that it is well-known that a big part of free throw success is in one's own "head", and that this has often been discussed on this board regarding Mason's previous lack of success at the foul line. That is what I was referring to when I stated above: "Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better." Mason has made tremendous strides at the foul line, and I just was pointing out that I have confidence in his ability to do the same with his offensive prowess via using his concentration level, etc. commensuate with his athletic abilities. So, I also don't appreciate any implication that I don't think that " his "head" is fine." (Quoting another obvious implication on your part.)

Lastly, you point out and confirm exactly what my original post was all about. It had absolutely no relation to Mason, by the way, but to the kind of overly "Pro-their own team" biased kind of fans that seem to permeate many boards, including this one to a minor extent, when you stated: "He perhaps hasn't so far lived up to many Duke fans' overinflated expectations". Substituting the player's name of choice for the "He".

COYS and Dukeface88, if you happen to read the previous paragraph, maybe now you will understand what I was alluding to in the first place. I totally agree with COYS' assessments of Mason vs. Noel, by the way, so there is no need to offer any defense of that quote as far as I am concerned. I originally lauded Dukeface88's comments in the spirit of how he presented them----- not being a knock on Mason, as I explained in a follow-up post.

So, where's the beef here?

I think COYS and Dukeface88 did a great job in expressing their thoughts. I lauded Dukeface88 about his statement, and Kedsy misconstrues what I wrote about and says that I implied that Mason is some sort of non-achieving project. (And some posters want to know why others find a problem with posting very often on the boards!:()

So, just to let everyone know, I am totally done on this subject no matter who decides to chastise me next.

ricks

ricks68
07-15-2012, 02:59 AM
I have been to Snow's three times. Only open Saturdays until the meat runs out. Get there by 10 AM. I have made several pilgrimages to Texas for BBQ. Snows is head and shoulders at the top. They nail the three crucial categories: Brisket, ribs, and sausage. It's not even close.
Basketball and BBQ are natural compadres. In my trips back to Durham, I've always been saddened that the Bull City doesn't have any serious 'cue. Allen and Sons casts a delicious shadow.

While you and I know that chicken is not a crucial category as far as Texas BBQ is concerned, next time get the chicken, too. Then find a way to get to Lockhart for the ribs at Kreuz. Trust me.

ricks

Biscuitboy
07-15-2012, 03:20 AM
Mason SHOULD be able to keep up with Noel, and at least outplay him on offense (At least I hope a 4-year player/2 year starter at Duke with 1st team All-ACC aspirations can stay with a guy fresh out of HS)

Alex Murphy was orignally ranked in the top 15 in the class of 2012 before he reclassified (I believe he was no.12, but I could be wrong) Poythress is ranked no.7, and probably has an athleticism advantage, but Murphy has the experience advantage, having played against college level athletes and international players this past year. I see this as almost an even match up, maybe slightly favoring UK due to Poythress' apparent 1st-round NBA talent.

Kelly, in my opinion, is strictly better in every aspect of the game than Kyle Wiltjer. Better shooter, better ball handler, better rebounder, better basketball IQ. Both are equally slow on defense, but I think Kelly is slightly bigger, has better hands, and has 2 years of college experience, including a year of starters minutes. Kelly wins this matchup easily.

UK will likely start Archie Goodwin and Ryan Harrow. Goodwin was ranked 2 spots below Rasheed on Scout.com, and both are 6-4, 180. I guess that's just about as close as it gets. However, Rasheed is unlikely to start this game. Instead, we have a 5th year senior who is one of the best shooters in the nation. Harrow is undersized like Quinn, but more athletic, yet lacks Quinn's court vision and ball skills. They have no one who compares to TT, maybe that little white dude who comes in for 2 minutes a game? Yeah . . not TT. We have more options at guard. I think we win the back court battle, no problem.

It will be close, they are more athletic than us, especially up front, but we have the depth in both the front court and back court to keep our guys fresh and to give them different looks on defense. In terms of talent, it's very close, but I think overall, we have more as a team than they do. Not to mention we have alot of guys who have played together for years. We SHOULD win this game.

So . . how the hell are we ranked #15 when we are deeper, and I would argue, more talented than the #3 team? (seriously overrated) Even in April, I would have put us at LEAST as high up as UK, but definitely higher up than UNC. I think we are closer to #6-8 than 15, and UK is like #8-10

These two areas will be the driving factors to this season's success. Kelly should kill this year. He has the skills, experience and savvy to lead the team on the court. I have to ask the question though, does he have the intensity and attitude to demand. Demand the focus and attention from the defense. And more importantly, demand the best from his teamates through his own performance. I hope that Ryan can channel his inner Singler/Laettner warrior personna. His leadership and authority on the court can be the most powerful weapon Duke can deliver.

For me, the backcourt is more unclear and a work in progress. Quinn, who I believe should be the linchpin, has a lot to prove. He came in an elite prospect. Classic point guard that K loves. He had a challenging freshman year physically and Duke's back court collectively has been in a state of flux. Quinn Cook, Seth Curry, TYler Thornton, Rasheed and Amile is a lot of firepower. Does that stable of guards stack up productively to UNC/NC State/Kentucky etc. Blending that talent and focusing that arenal will be K's challenge this year. Our back court needs to be our back bone. That's Duke basketball. Hpoefully, Ryan's presence on the floor and Mason's dominance will make it easier for them.

Newton_14
07-15-2012, 07:46 AM
O.K. I think I have been maligned enough on this thread.:mad:

If you don't want to put words in my mouth why are you putting words in my mouth? How could anyone have misconstrued: "Mason is a very good bball player, but I believe he plays a little out-of-control at times on offense. He has greatly improved so far, and I expect him to be even better this year offensively. Just like Zoubs, it just takes a while longer with some players. In Zoubs' case, it turned out to be his injuries that held him back. Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better." into: "you seem to be implying that Mason has been some sort of non-achieving project for the past three years." ????:confused:

And to clarify exactly what I meant by his "head" catching up to his atleticism, I would like to point out that it is well-known that a big part of free throw success is in one's own "head", and that this has often been discussed on this board regarding Mason's previous lack of success at the foul line. That is what I was referring to when I stated above: "Maybe with Mason, it's his "head" catching up with his athleticism. Seriously, I think the young man is a heck of an athlete and works very hard at getting better." Mason has made tremendous strides at the foul line, and I just was pointing out that I have confidence in his ability to do the same with his offensive prowess via using his concentration level, etc. commensuate with his athletic abilities. So, I also don't appreciate any implication that I don't think that " his "head" is fine." (Quoting another obvious implication on your part.)

Lastly, you point out and confirm exactly what my original post was all about. It had absolutely no relation to Mason, by the way, but to the kind of overly "Pro-their own team" biased kind of fans that seem to permeate many boards, including this one to a minor extent, when you stated: "He perhaps hasn't so far lived up to many Duke fans' overinflated expectations". Substituting the player's name of choice for the "He".

COYS and Dukeface88, if you happen to read the previous paragraph, maybe now you will understand what I was alluding to in the first place. I totally agree with COYS' assessments of Mason vs. Noel, by the way, so there is no need to offer any defense of that quote as far as I am concerned. I originally lauded Dukeface88's comments in the spirit of how he presented them----- not being a knock on Mason, as I explained in a follow-up post.

So, where's the beef here?

I think COYS and Dukeface88 did a great job in expressing their thoughts. I lauded Dukeface88 about his statement, and Kedsy misconstrues what I wrote about and says that I implied that Mason is some sort of non-achieving project. (And some posters want to know why others find a problem with posting very often on the boards!

So, just to let everyone know, I am totally done on this subject no matter who decides to chastise me next.

ricks

FWIW, I understood your point in the post, and thought your post was fine. :)

It's been a slow summer for the most part, and Lehigh left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, so the board as a whole has been a bit cranky. :) Plus a lot times, people are not trying to be as snarky as their post appears to be, and tone can get lost in translation.

October can't get here soon enough! Go Duke!

slower
07-15-2012, 08:15 AM
but Mason is already a great player

Gonna have to disagree on that one. Very good, yes. Great - not yet.

Lennies
07-17-2012, 01:53 PM
(Snow's is still even better, but I would venture a guess that no one else on this board has ever been there----------not even the other posters residing in Texas.)ricks

Try Franklin Barbeque in Austin.. it's unbelievable. The other BBQ place you were thinking about in Austin is JMueller. It's run by the son of the guy that ran Mueller BBQ in Taylor.

Ichabod Drain
07-17-2012, 02:13 PM
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but..."

Everytime i see people start a sentence like this it reminds me of Ricky Bobby's: "With all due respect..." :p


... it's in the Geneva Conventions...

ricks68
07-17-2012, 05:51 PM
Try Franklin Barbeque in Austin.. it's unbelievable. The other BBQ place you were thinking about in Austin is JMueller. It's run by the son of the guy that ran Mueller BBQ in Taylor.

That's the other one. From the Texas Monthly article, I think that the owner of Franklin worked for JMueller, and when JMueller shut down for a short period of time, he went off and started his own place. JMueller then re-opened again. I am not exactly sure of the accuracy of all this, but if I can dig through my back issues of TM, I can tell you where to find the actual article. (Good luck on when that is gonna be.)

I plan on going to Snow's this coming Saturday, so we'll see how that turns out.

Nice long article this week on BBQ pits around Texas in the Houston Press newpaper that mentions Lexington NC BBQ as the BBQ capital of NC, like Lockhart is in Texas. The article is about large brick-lined open pits in the ground that are as large as 75 feet long filled with huge pieces of different meats that cook over oak coals that are tended overnight. Some of these pits have been part of a tradition at these places for decades and decades.

ricks

ricks68
07-17-2012, 06:28 PM
That's the other one. From the Texas Monthly article, I think that the owner of Franklin worked for JMueller, and when JMueller shut down for a short period of time, he went off and started his own place. JMueller then re-opened again. I am not exactly sure of the accuracy of all this, but if I can dig through my back issues of TM, I can tell you where to find the actual article. (Good luck on when that is gonna be.)

Cover story of February 2012 issue of Texas Monthly.

ricks

mccollums
07-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Any early intel on Kentucky? I assume their starting lineup will be something like:

1 Ryan Harrow (RS SO)
2 Archie Goodwin (FR)
3 Alex Polythress (FR)
4 Kyle Witljer (SO)
5 Nerlens Noel (FR)


UK fan here...

I think you have to look at it as interchangeable parts.. and not a static 1 through 5

1-2 - Harrow , Goodwin, Mayes
3 - Goodwin, Poythress, Hood -
4 - Wiltjer, Poythress, Hood - Hood is a stretch but he is 6'7" and could play spot minutes at the 4.
5 - Noel, Cauley-Stein

walkons that could play spot minutes-
Jarrod Polson - PG only - actually a pretty good little walkon that hasn't been needed.......yet (has faced JohnWall, EricBledsoe, MarquisTeague in practice the last 2 seasons)
Twany Beckham - really good athlete that could play solid D on 1,2, or 3

Low post threat: ????
Shooters: Mayes , Wiltjer,
summer rumors saying Harrow can shoot
Goodwin- don't think he's going to be a threat
Poythress- shot and form look good- but who knows? will he be closer to 30%? or 40%


Other topics: should UK be ranked #3? who knows one way or the other.

Defensively - Last season every player could guard multiple positions because of their length and mobility. This season will be different since there are players that will be targeted on defensive switching. Harrow is very small and will not be able to handle a switch with a big man. Last season, Teague was at least stout and fairly long for a PG and could hold off a big man temporarily. Wiltjer will not be able to stay in front of 1,2s, or 3s on a switch. Other concern is Noel and foul trouble.... odds are he will not be as savvy as Anthony Davis on avoiding fouls... Good news coming out of the summer practices is that Willie Cauley-Stein (just hyphenated his name) is much better then expected.

I don't expect UK to be as good as they were last season. Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were game changing players... Lamb shot an elite % from 3 ALL SEASON...this team isn't as talented but hopefully they can gel and become a threat in March.

gumbomoop
07-18-2012, 01:24 PM
UK fan here...

I think you have to look at it as interchangeable parts.. and not a static 1 through 5

1-2 - Harrow , Goodwin, Mayes
3 - Goodwin, Poythress, Hood -
4 - Wiltjer, Poythress, Hood - Hood is a stretch but he is 6'7" and could play spot minutes at the 4.
5 - Noel, Cauley-Stein

walkons that could play spot minutes-
Jarrod Polson - PG only - actually a pretty good little walkon that hasn't been needed.......yet (has faced JohnWall, EricBledsoe, MarquisTeague in practice the last 2 seasons)
Twany Beckham - really good athlete that could play solid D on 1,2, or 3

Good news coming out of the summer practices is that Willie Cauley-Stein (just hyphenated his name) is much better then expected.

I don't expect UK to be as good as they were last season. Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were game changing players... Lamb shot an elite % from 3 ALL SEASON...this team isn't as talented but hopefully they can gel and become a threat in March.

Thanks for the analysis. Looks to me as if UK will lack "quality depth," unless [1] Cauley-Stein is in fact better than expected, [2] Mayes can step up to tougher competition, and [3] Hood steps up, period. Several posters here, including me, are definitely impressed with Poythress. Wiltjer should get his chance to break out. Although I can see that Polson will have to play spot minutes at backup PG, that's a big step down from Harrow, who will have to play 32++ mpg. Agree?

Based on my preferred [if obvious] criteria of talent/depth/experience, UK probably shouldn't be top 3-4 to begin season, but they should gel to make a deep run by March. Unlike last season, when Miller, Jones, and Lamb returned to provide talent, experience, and depth, UK has far more ?-marks to begin the season. Lots of talent for sure, though even there it's as yet "potential," including Wiltjer. Not much experience. Not quite enough depth. Will Calipari actually have 8 guys he can depend on by mid-season? Or even 7?

OldPhiKap
07-18-2012, 01:27 PM
UK fan here...

I think you have to look at it as interchangeable parts.. and not a static 1 through 5

1-2 - Harrow , Goodwin, Mayes
3 - Goodwin, Poythress, Hood -
4 - Wiltjer, Poythress, Hood - Hood is a stretch but he is 6'7" and could play spot minutes at the 4.
5 - Noel, Cauley-Stein

walkons that could play spot minutes-
Jarrod Polson - PG only - actually a pretty good little walkon that hasn't been needed.......yet (has faced JohnWall, EricBledsoe, MarquisTeague in practice the last 2 seasons)
Twany Beckham - really good athlete that could play solid D on 1,2, or 3

Low post threat: ????
Shooters: Mayes , Wiltjer,
summer rumors saying Harrow can shoot
Goodwin- don't think he's going to be a threat
Poythress- shot and form look good- but who knows? will he be closer to 30%? or 40%


Other topics: should UK be ranked #3? who knows one way or the other.

Defensively - Last season every player could guard multiple positions because of their length and mobility. This season will be different since there are players that will be targeted on defensive switching. Harrow is very small and will not be able to handle a switch with a big man. Last season, Teague was at least stout and fairly long for a PG and could hold off a big man temporarily. Wiltjer will not be able to stay in front of 1,2s, or 3s on a switch. Other concern is Noel and foul trouble.... odds are he will not be as savvy as Anthony Davis on avoiding fouls... Good news coming out of the summer practices is that Willie Cauley-Stein (just hyphenated his name) is much better then expected.

I don't expect UK to be as good as they were last season. Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were game changing players... Lamb shot an elite % from 3 ALL SEASON...this team isn't as talented but hopefully they can gel and become a threat in March.

Thanks for some excellent analysis. This should be a great game, the first of perhaps two meetings!

UrinalCake
07-18-2012, 01:36 PM
Thanks mccollums. One of the things I love about this board is when fans of other schools come over and provide quality analysis, not just the typical "we are awesome, you suck" drivel that you see on other message boards. I think your overall take on the team is in line with what most of us think. As Duke fans we're expecting a win, but in reality the game could go either way.


This looks to me to be Calipari's least talented team since he's been at UK, but I could easily be proven wrong. Your point about the lack of interchangable parts is intriguing, because one of Duke's strengths this year looks to be their versatility. So I'd expect Coach K to put some lineups on the court that can create mismatches, perhaps by forcing UK to do some switching on defense, and then to exploit those matchups.

OldPhiKap
07-18-2012, 02:05 PM
I sure don't expect a win although assume we may be favored by a few FWIW.

And I also suspect that the KU and MSU fans will not be pulling for us, although I do not know their history with Kentucky. (Maybe mccollums has some input on that?)

CDu
07-18-2012, 02:36 PM
I sure don't expect a win although assume we may be favored by a few FWIW.

And I also suspect that the KU and MSU fans will not be pulling for us, although I do not know their history with Kentucky. (Maybe mccollums has some input on that?)

I would expect a Duke win. UK is going to be fielding an entirely new team. All but two of our players will have had a year (or more) worth of practice and/or games together.

If the game occurred in February, I'd probably agree with you. But we have a long history of being ahead of the curve in November/December. And we're returning a VERY experienced team.

Olympic Fan
07-18-2012, 02:42 PM
I would expect a Duke win. UK is going to be fielding an entirely new team. All but two of our players will have had a year (or more) worth of practice and/or games together.

If the game occurred in February, I'd probably agree with you. But we have a long history of being ahead of the curve in November/December. And we're returning a VERY experienced team.

I agree with this -- on Nov. 15, I expect a talented veteran Duke team to be better than a talented young Kentucky team. It may very well be a different story if the two meet again in March.

As for the crowd in the Georgia Dome, I expect the Kentucky fans will dominate -- they travel better than anybody in college basketball and Atlanta is a familiar destination for them. I expect the crowd to be much like Duke faced in Houston vs. Baylor or in Indy vs. Butler. There will be a large Duke contingent in the house, but they will be greatly outnumbered by the Kentucky fans.

As for the Kansas fans in the stands, I think they have a stronger rivalry with Kentucky than Duke. I don't expect the KU fans to be pulling for the Devils, but they aren't likely to pull for the Wildcats either. I have no feel for how the Michigan State fans in the stands will react.

licc85
07-19-2012, 04:26 AM
UK fan here...

I think you have to look at it as interchangeable parts.. and not a static 1 through 5

1-2 - Harrow , Goodwin, Mayes
3 - Goodwin, Poythress, Hood -
4 - Wiltjer, Poythress, Hood - Hood is a stretch but he is 6'7" and could play spot minutes at the 4.
5 - Noel, Cauley-Stein

walkons that could play spot minutes-
Jarrod Polson - PG only - actually a pretty good little walkon that hasn't been needed.......yet (has faced JohnWall, EricBledsoe, MarquisTeague in practice the last 2 seasons)
Twany Beckham - really good athlete that could play solid D on 1,2, or 3

Low post threat: ????
Shooters: Mayes , Wiltjer,
summer rumors saying Harrow can shoot
Goodwin- don't think he's going to be a threat
Poythress- shot and form look good- but who knows? will he be closer to 30%? or 40%


Other topics: should UK be ranked #3? who knows one way or the other.

Defensively - Last season every player could guard multiple positions because of their length and mobility. This season will be different since there are players that will be targeted on defensive switching. Harrow is very small and will not be able to handle a switch with a big man. Last season, Teague was at least stout and fairly long for a PG and could hold off a big man temporarily. Wiltjer will not be able to stay in front of 1,2s, or 3s on a switch. Other concern is Noel and foul trouble.... odds are he will not be as savvy as Anthony Davis on avoiding fouls... Good news coming out of the summer practices is that Willie Cauley-Stein (just hyphenated his name) is much better then expected.

I don't expect UK to be as good as they were last season. Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were game changing players... Lamb shot an elite % from 3 ALL SEASON...this team isn't as talented but hopefully they can gel and become a threat in March.

you sure you're a UK fan? John Wall/Bledsoe was 3 seasons ago. 2 seasons ago was Brandon Knight's Class . . .

mccollums
07-19-2012, 10:52 AM
you sure you're a UK fan? John Wall/Bledsoe was 3 seasons ago. 2 seasons ago was Brandon Knight's Class . . .

LOL.. that's funny. You're right. Credibility lost right there. That's what I get for trying to post during work hours....multitasker I am not.
I just wanted to make the point that he's (Polson) actually a decent ball player. I don't think he'll see the floor unless Harrow/Goodwin/Mayes are in foul trouble. But, if he's needed for a few minutes, he shouldn't hurt the team too bad.

He did face them in the summer, but not in practice.

As for KU fans and who they will root for....my guess is Duke. No idea on MSU.

madscavenger
07-21-2012, 06:46 AM
I have been loyal to Kreuz for over 45 years now, but things have slightly changed since Keith took over (Rick's son). He added more sides and is emphasizing mail order and other stuff---sending their rings (links) to Hill Country in NYC (Mark Glosserman's excellent BBQ restaurant [disclaimer---my brother-in-law's cousin]). The consistency has definitely suffered. Roy is still the pitmaster and shoulder is still the basic fare, but it has become hit or miss for me on both the shoulder and the rings the past half-a-dozen times I have been there. The rings have been mealy, and I have discussed them at length with Rick over a pereiod of time. Order them "dry" he insists, but they are the same. But, remember, they lost the guy that made them to Smitty's (Rick's sister's place--the old Kreuz location). I was told about 8-10 years ago that Chisholm Trail had better rings and finally gave them a try right after that-------yep, they are vastly superior (just plain outstanding). So good that I always stop by on the way out of town to get a dozen pre-cooked for my freezer. The most outstanding thing for me at Kreuz have been the ribs the past 6-8 years. Rick figured out just the right amount of salt to cut down in the rub because of the already salty nature of the pork. The result is the most remarkable smoked pork rib taste ever---------------not considering the wonderful fall-off-the-bone categories of doctored meat. I am not a prime rib eater anymore, so I cannot comment on the constant raves Kreuz gets for that.

There are two (relatively) new BBQ joints in Austin that are the "in" places to go now that draw long lines and run out before noon. One line kinda goes down the highway and they even have a cutoff where they tell you to just go away after that person because they know where they will be out of BBQ. One is Franklin's, but the other I can't remember. Both owners have old BBQ family ties and/or experience, and actually worked together and are friends. They were a long and informative cover story in Texas Monthly this year or so (I think) ago. The reviews have been as positive as the public response. My daughter went to Franklin's and said it was really good, but I have been to neither. I won't wake up early enough to get there from Houston in time to make the line cutoff. The drive to Kreuz is about 2 hrs 20 min for me, and Austin is about another half hour.

Snow's in another matter, however. I can leave by about 8:30 and call for a to go order while driving that will set aside all of the stuff I want (secret shared with DBR BBQ readers), since they start running out of different cuts beginning at around 10:00. It's also just a short drive for us Texans at only 1 3/4 hours from Houston. Forget the ribs there, get the bisket, chicken and links. Pure smoke flavor and just the perfect amount of tender "juiciness". Links are the drier style than in Lockhart, but stand alone in that category, also. (No sauce other than Louisiana hot sauce types for any true Texas BBQ.) So far, the only Texas BBQ (other than microwaving pre-cooked rings and steaming the Kreuz ribs) that I find you can eat as leftovers that still retain the fresh-smoked flavor and meat consistency. Both the chicken and brisket are incredible when cold. (Reminds me of raiding the refrigerator for some smoked Snook when I was a kid.) I am hopefully going back next Saturday---it's only open on Saturdays until the food runs out.

(Maybe it's time to re-open the real Duke vs Kentucky thread and put all of these posts in there, mods.:))

ricks

Hey rick. Can't hardly get to Texas much anymore. Up here north of Chicago, no go. First time a bunch of us in San Antonio, there for the tournament, met up at Kreuz. And you picked up the tab!! Never will forget that. Well, you've never steered me wrong yet, so maybe you could take a shot at this.

Mail order only:

What do you like?
Who does it best?


{i'm partial to brisket, but great BBQ, well.......... you know}

mad

ricks68
07-21-2012, 10:24 PM
Hey rick. Can't hardly get to Texas much anymore. Up here north of Chicago, no go. First time a bunch of us in San Antonio, there for the tournament, met up at Kreuz. And you picked up the tab!! Never will forget that. Well, you've never steered me wrong yet, so maybe you could take a shot at this.

Mail order only:

What do you like?
Who does it best?


{i'm partial to brisket, but great BBQ, well.......... you know}

mad

As soon as I saw your name on this post I thought back to that time in San Antonio. Forrest was the one that took a great picture of the whole group, wasn't he? If he did, it would be great to see it posted with everyone's name listed.

Order your brisket from Snow's BBQ in Lexington, Texas. They have a website up. Just got back today from eating there again this morning. I also brought back some brisket and had it cold this evening and it was a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y the best I have ever had. Let me kinow how much you liked it after you give it a taste.:) (Have them throw in some sausage for you to try, also. Really, really fine!)

ricks

Indoor66
07-22-2012, 08:23 AM
As soon as I saw your name on this post I thought back to that time in San Antonio. Forrest was the one that took a great picture of the whole group, wasn't he? If he did, it would be great to see it posted with everyone's name listed.

Order your brisket from Snow's BBQ in Lexington, Texas. They have a website up. Just got back today from eating there again this morning. I also brought back some brisket and had it cold this evening and it was a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y the best I have ever had. Let me kinow how much you liked it after you give it a taste.:) (Have them throw in some sausage for you to try, also. Really, really fine!)

ricks

I watched the 1980 SuperBowl in San Antonio at a bar called The Newsroom. I had a broken down vehicle being repaired across the street and was stuck in town. The owner of The Newsroom was a saviour and took me under his wing. He introduced me to many people and invited me to his private SuperBowl party. The pool table was covered with plywood and a feast laid out. Most prominent was the Brisket and wonderful, tangy sause. My mouth waters thinking of it. I almost moved to San Antonio after that event!

Jarhead
07-22-2012, 03:04 PM
This thread started out about a game with Kentucky this coming season, but I have to wonder about the direction it has taken. Do the KU fans understand that we think better of a good serving of 'cue than we do of Kentucky? http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/character/cookiemonster.gif

ricks68
07-22-2012, 07:54 PM
This thread started out about a game with Kentucky this coming season, but I have to wonder about the direction it has taken. Do the KU fans understand that we think better of a good serving of 'cue than we do of Kentucky? http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/character/cookiemonster.gif

I would venture a guess that Kansas fans care more about great BBQ than how we feel about Kentucky.;) I sure do.

ricks

-jk
07-22-2012, 08:26 PM
I suspect they care less for BBQ and more for bourbon in Kentucky.

Tough call.

-jk

ricks68
07-23-2012, 02:03 AM
I suspect they care less for BBQ and more for bourbon in Kentucky.

Tough call.

-jk

I think a lot of their "bourbon" is clear, isn't it?

ricks

madscavenger
07-23-2012, 03:01 AM
I think a lot of their "bourbon" is clear, isn't it?

ricks




I think a lot of their "bourbon" is clear, isn't it?

ricks


i'm partial to single malt. None of that hybrid hooch for me.


{rick,

Still digging through beaucoup boxes, searching for that photo. Alternatively, it may have been stored on an older version of the bulletin board. There was one, wasn't there? If so, wonder if its still accessable. i do remember them (there were 2 photos).}