NBA Off-Season moves

[JasonEvans]

This shall be the collector thread for all discussions of trades and free agent moves.

I get it started with this shocker... the Hawks are trading perennial All-Star Joe Johnson (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/7/2/3132827/joe-johnson-trade-brooklyn-nets-atlanta-hawks) (who happens to have one of the worst contracts in basketball) to the NJ Nets for a collection of expiring contracts, a 2013 protected first-round pick, and a bag of magic beans.


The Brooklyn Nets have acquired Joe Johnson from the Atlanta Hawks for Jordan Farmar, Anthony Morrow, Johan Petro, Jordan Williams and a 2013 protected first-round draft pick originally owned by the Houston Rockets.

-Jason "Danny Ferry making bold moves! Is he trying to make the Hawks really bad so they get some decent draft picks and then get good again?" Evans

[BD80]

This shall be the collector thread for all discussions of trades and free agent moves.

I get it started with this shocker... the Hawks are trading perennial All-Star Joe Johnson (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/7/2/3132827/joe-johnson-trade-brooklyn-nets-atlanta-hawks) (who happens to have one of the worst contracts in basketball) to the NJ Nets for a collection of expiring contracts, a 2013 protected first-round pick, and a bag of magic beans.



-Jason "Danny Ferry making bold moves! Is he trying to make the Hawks really bad so they get some decent draft picks and then get good again?" Evans

WOW! What a salary dump! Of course $22.25/yr for 4 yrs is a lot, even for an all-star, if you can't get the team to at least the conference finals.

Was JJ a defensive liability?

This leaves the Brooklyn Nets with nothing to trade for Howard. Is there any way they can re-sign Williams and still sign Howard next year?

Billy King is the Nets GM right? Wonder if Stern reviews these deals more closely?

[brevity]

I get it started with this shocker... the Hawks are trading perennial All-Star Joe Johnson (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/7/2/3132827/joe-johnson-trade-brooklyn-nets-atlanta-hawks) (who happens to have one of the worst contracts in basketball) to the NJ Nets for a collection of expiring contracts, a 2013 protected first-round pick, and a bag of magic beans.

Hey, don't knock magic beans. I read a children's story once where three magic beans were planted in the ground and grew overnight into John Henson.

[Channing]

I love the deal for the Hawks. We were never going to be anything better than a first (maybe second) round playoff team. The Johnson contract is an albatross, and I am glad to see it go. I'm sure we will be terrible for the next year or two (or three) but at least we can position ourselves for a good pick in the draft - the potential to get a game changer (perhaps like Jabari Parker - one can dream right?).

[BattierD12]

The Hawks are now in play for Dwight next summer by freeing up cap space and offering him the chance to play in his hometown with his friend Josh Smith. Still, Josh Smith wasn't happy with the Hawks before JJ left - not sure he likes the fact they're trying to start over. I know the Magic would love to get Josh Smith to try to attract Dwight to stay.

The Dwightmare is one complicated chess game.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ferry got rid of one the most toxic contracts in the NBA. He got only got rid of Johnson, but also got a ton of expiring contracts and a first year contract? Also, he got rid of Marvin Williams, who was one of the most disappointing second picks in the history of the NBA. The only thing that would have been better would be if he traded both players to the Bobcats and showed the NBA who's GMs are more cerebral.

[Duvall]

1. December 10, 1988.
2. Today? (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/54420387-87/williams-jazz-harris-hawks.html.csp)

[JasonEvans]

1. December 10, 1988.
2. Today? (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/54420387-87/williams-jazz-harris-hawks.html.csp)

I'll admit it took me some google work to figure out what the date meant (http://dukereport.com/2010/06/27/video-vault-danny-ferry-scores-58-on-miami/). Brilliant stuff, Duvall!

The notion that Ferry got rid of JJ and Marvin Williams' contracts on the same day... flabbergasting. He has been on the job less than a week and there is little question he is the best GM in Hawks history. I mean, today is probably the best day for a Hawks GM since September 1982 when the Hawks traded drug-addict John Drew to Utah for the draft rights to a rookie named Dominique Wilkens.

-Jason "I have not read a lot of the stories on it, but most sportswriters seem to really like these moves for the Hawks" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Oh, and there is already talk that the Hawks will have so much cap space that they could be players next summer to sign 2 stars... such as Dwight Howard (from Atlanta and good friends with Josh Smith) and Chris Paul.

Yeah, I am a bit giddy!

-Jason "Yahoo article (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/danny-ferry-deals-marvin-williams-utah-continuing-much-003619290--nba.html)" Evans

[COYS]

Oh, and there is already talk that the Hawks will have so much cap space that they could be players next summer to sign 2 stars... such as Dwight Howard (from Atlanta and good friends with Josh Smith) and Chris Paul.

Yeah, I am a bit giddy!

-Jason "Yahoo article (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/danny-ferry-deals-marvin-williams-utah-continuing-much-003619290--nba.html)" Evans

It's accurate to say that I haven't been more excited about the Hawks in my adult life. I'll admit, I'm a little skeptical about Ferry's first draft as head of the Hawks. But honestly, what he's done since then is so incredibly amazing that the draft is ancient history. Now, Hawks fans can dream about adding top-tier stars to the team. What's even better, though, is that even if the Hawks can't land the big free agents, Ferry has given the team enough flexibility to put together a completely new team with (presumably) smart cap management.

But let me jump into fantasy land for a little bit. I just want to dream about how amazing a Smith/Howard front court would be on the defensive end! Howard is such a force on defense that he can turn an average defensive team into a really good one all by himself. However, if he were to come to the Hawks and join Smith, you'd have two of the best front court defenders in the world on the same team.

[CDu]

WOW! What a salary dump! Of course $22.25/yr for 4 yrs is a lot, even for an all-star, if you can't get the team to at least the conference finals.

Was JJ a defensive liability?

This leaves the Brooklyn Nets with nothing to trade for Howard. Is there any way they can re-sign Williams and still sign Howard next year?

Billy King is the Nets GM right? Wonder if Stern reviews these deals more closely?

To quote the sage Lee Corso: "not so fast, my friend."

Reports are that the Magic are discussing a sign-and-trade deal with the Nets of Howard for Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and 3 1st round picks.

Still a good move for the Hawks in that Johnson was being paid like a superstar but playing like a complementary player. And the pieces they had in place locked them into a middle of the road team. Now, they're a potential (though unlikely) player for Howard but in any case will have some flexibility to rebuild moving forward.

If true (and if it comes to fruition), this could be one of those rare trades that ultimately helps both teams. Atlanta gets out from under a terrible contract to rebuild, while the Nets put together an interesting starting lineup for the next few years:
Howard
??
Wallace
Johnson
Williams

That group, with whomever they could get at PF, would probably become the #2 team in the East, with a reasonable chance to beat the Heat in a playoff series.

[JasonEvans]

For Dwifght Howard the calculus may be-- do you want to play in Brooklyn next season with Deron Williams and Joe Johnson or do you want to play in Atlanta in 2 years with Josh Smith, Al Horford, and someone else (maybe... maybe Chris Paul)? Which combo has a better shot at unseating the Heat and giving Dwight the ring he desperately wants?

-Jason "whatever Howard decides to do, the Hawks have options... and that is a great gift Mr. Ferry has given us" Evans

[UrinalCake]

Reports are that the Magic are discussing a sign-and-trade deal with the Nets of Howard for Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and 3 1st round picks.

Really interesting moves by the Nets here. Prior to the Joe Johnson trade, I thought the smarter play for them would have been to wait until next year and sign Howard as a free agent, that way they don't have to trade away their whole team to get him. What good is Howard if he has no one to play with? And he's already publicly stated that he wants to go to the Nets, so there's not too much fear of him going somewhere else. But now that the Nets have Johnson, they must feel that they have enough to contend, and that signing Howard would be enough to convince Deron Williams to stay.

After the success Miami has had, I can see other teams trying to emulate this model of signing three superstars who want to play with each other, possibly even for less money, and then surrounding them with minimum contract players (or players with veterans' exceptions and what-not).

[CDu]

Really interesting moves by the Nets here. Prior to the Joe Johnson trade, I thought the smarter play for them would have been to wait until next year and sign Howard as a free agent, that way they don't have to trade away their whole team to get him. What good is Howard if he has no one to play with? And he's already publicly stated that he wants to go to the Nets, so there's not too much fear of him going somewhere else. But now that the Nets have Johnson, they must feel that they have enough to contend, and that signing Howard would be enough to convince Deron Williams to stay.

After the success Miami has had, I can see other teams trying to emulate this model of signing three superstars who want to play with each other, possibly even for less money, and then surrounding them with minimum contract players (or players with veterans' exceptions and what-not).

It does appear to be the new model of doing business in the NBA. Which is why I'm frustrated with the Bulls' apparent decision not to blow things up with Rose out for most of next year. Building around Rose and (maybe) Noah and stockpiling 1st round picks and cap space for next offseason would have seemed the smarter play. Instead, they're heading towards Atlanta-like purgatory (note: Atlanta is quickly moving out of said purgatory) with a bunch of solid-but-very-overpaid players and one star.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It does appear to be the new model of doing business in the NBA. Which is why I'm frustrated with the Bulls' apparent decision not to blow things up with Rose out for most of next year. Building around Rose and (maybe) Noah and stockpiling 1st round picks and cap space for next offseason would have seemed the smarter play. Instead, they're heading towards Atlanta-like purgatory (note: Atlanta is quickly moving out of said purgatory) with a bunch of solid-but-very-overpaid players and one star.

I must disagree with you. Derrick Rose is 23 years old. By the time he makes it back, he'll be 24. By the time he's vintage Rose, he'll be 25 (if he ever gets back to his normal self). Noah is 27, and will soon be hitting his prime. Between Rose and Noah, there will be 3-4 solid years (2013-2016), and I personally feel that this is just not enough time to get it together. Rebuilding again is not an option. The Bulls have an amazing core right now in Rose, Noah, Deng, and a bunch of role players. They have made a few mistakes, such as Hamilton (injuries) and Boozer (contract doesn't equal production), but these are fixable (amnesty and trades).

I don't think that the Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta doesn't have a superstar like Rose who can potentially get them over the hump. While Atlanta has had some overpaid players, I don't believe that the Bulls are overpaying anyone with the exception of Boozer (Hamilton, if healthy, is definitely worth $5 mill a year and Deng, at $12 mill, is also a great option IMO).

The priority for the Bulls needs to be Boozer, who is killing their cap room right now. Taj Gibson can certainly fill his place, and the Bulls can then go after a second- or third-banana at SG. Just me two cents...

[ChicagoCrazy84]

It does appear to be the new model of doing business in the NBA. Which is why I'm frustrated with the Bulls' apparent decision not to blow things up with Rose out for most of next year. Building around Rose and (maybe) Noah and stockpiling 1st round picks and cap space for next offseason would have seemed the smarter play. Instead, they're heading towards Atlanta-like purgatory (note: Atlanta is quickly moving out of said purgatory) with a bunch of solid-but-very-overpaid players and one star.


I don't know if I would say that just yet with the Bulls. I think it still remains to be seen how DRose recovers. If he comes back in February/March healthy, they could still be dangerous. The Hawks team from the last few years has been very different, mainly because they did not have a PG the caliber of Rose, but also a coach like Thibodeau, and even a fan base like Chicago. If the Bulls can lure someone like Brandon Roy or Jamal Crawford to Chicago for a little less money, they could still contend and then in 2014, shed Boozer's contract, trade Luol and basically start from scratch with Rose, Noah, and Taj. I'm not giving up just yet

[CDu]

I must disagree with you. Derrick Rose is 23 years old. By the time he makes it back, he'll be 24. By the time he's vintage Rose, he'll be 25 (if he ever gets back to his normal self). Noah is 27, and will soon be hitting his prime. Between Rose and Noah, there will be 3-4 solid years (2013-2016), and I personally feel that this is just not enough time to get it together. Rebuilding again is not an option. The Bulls have an amazing core right now in Rose, Noah, Deng, and a bunch of role players. They have made a few mistakes, such as Hamilton (injuries) and Boozer (contract doesn't equal production), but these are fixable (amnesty and trades).

I don't think that the Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta doesn't have a superstar like Rose who can potentially get them over the hump. While Atlanta has had some overpaid players, I don't believe that the Bulls are overpaying anyone with the exception of Boozer (Hamilton, if healthy, is definitely worth $5 mill a year and Deng, at $12 mill, is also a great option IMO).

The priority for the Bulls needs to be Boozer, who is killing their cap room right now. Taj Gibson can certainly fill his place, and the Bulls can then go after a second- or third-banana at SG. Just me two cents...

What you've just described is pretty much exactly what I was suggesting we do in my "blow it up" scenario: amnesty Boozer, trade Deng for a lottery pick, take our lumps this season and get another lottery pick. Then, next offseason, we have two lottery picks, a superstar, a few strong complementary players in Noah and Gibson, and cap space to add to that. But there appears to be zero interest from the Bulls front office in amnestying Boozer for at least another year, and to be honest it doesn't make sense to do it for at least another year anyway (since amnestying him now doesn't get us substantially under the cap - just far enough away from the luxury tax).

Instead, by holding on to Deng and not amnestying Boozer, we essentially end up in the same scenario. We aren't going to win it this coming year (too much uncertainty with Rose's knee). And by the following year Boozer will be dead weight, leaving us without enough firepower to win it. Then, Deng is a free agent and we amnesty Boozer. Unfortunately, we get to that same scenario without the two additional lottery picks to go along with Rose, Noah, and the cap space.

The

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I must disagree with you. Derrick Rose is 23 years old. By the time he makes it back, he'll be 24. By the time he's vintage Rose, he'll be 25 (if he ever gets back to his normal self). Noah is 27, and will soon be hitting his prime. Between Rose and Noah, there will be 3-4 solid years (2013-2016), and I personally feel that this is just not enough time to get it together. Rebuilding again is not an option. The Bulls have an amazing core right now in Rose, Noah, Deng, and a bunch of role players. They have made a few mistakes, such as Hamilton (injuries) and Boozer (contract doesn't equal production), but these are fixable (amnesty and trades).

I don't think that the Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta doesn't have a superstar like Rose who can potentially get them over the hump. While Atlanta has had some overpaid players, I don't believe that the Bulls are overpaying anyone with the exception of Boozer (Hamilton, if healthy, is definitely worth $5 mill a year and Deng, at $12 mill, is also a great option IMO).

The priority for the Bulls needs to be Boozer, who is killing their cap room right now. Taj Gibson can certainly fill his place, and the Bulls can then go after a second- or third-banana at SG. Just me two cents...


I think Gar Forman and John Paxson are kicking themselves now with the signing of Boozer. He was a good player, but I think they panicked a bit and overpaid for him. With Hamilton, that was just bad. The guy was 32 coming off of 2 horrible seasons with the Pistons. They should have gone harder after Shannon Brown IMO.

[BD80]

How many years left on Boozer's contract?

[flyingdutchdevil]

How many years left on Boozer's contract?


3 years left

2012 $15,000,000
2013 $15,300,000
2014 $16,800,000

[CDu]

How many years left on Boozer's contract?

He has 3 years left at about $15.7 million per season. Very bad deal in hindsight. They can amnesty him (and probably will at some point), but the Bulls appear to not want to do so until they can become real players in free agency (and when the cost to do so will be less). After the 2013-2014 season, they could amnesty him and have enough room to go big (with Deng also coming off the books).

The problem is that next year is probably lost. Even with Rose returning (and it is unclear how good he'll be coming back next year), their bench is going to take a hit with the losses of Korver, Brewer, and Asik. The weaker bench puts more pressure on the starters, and that wasn't really their strength last year. So to ask them to go through 3 upper seeds (they'd likely be a #6-8 seed) is just too much. Then, the following year, Boozer will probably be too old, and they'll still have the weaker bench.

If they could put this exact team together (at their current quality) for the next two years, they could compete for a championship in at least one of those years. But we're going to lose a lot of bench quality and Boozer isn't getting any younger (or better). As such, I think it makes more sense to overhaul now and reload for the 2013-2014 season and beyond.

[BD80]

3 years left

2012 $15,000,000
2013 $15,300,000
2014 $16,800,000


He has 3 years left at about $15.7 million per season. Very bad deal in hindsight. They can amnesty him (and probably will at some point), but the Bulls appear to not want to do so until they can become real players in free agency (and when the cost to do so will be less). After the 2013-2014 season, they could amnesty him and have enough room to go big (with Deng also coming off the books). ...

If they could put this exact team together (at their current quality) for the next two years, they could compete for a championship in at least one of those years. But we're going to lose a lot of bench quality and Boozer isn't getting any younger (or better). As such, I think it makes more sense to overhaul now and reload for the 2013-2014 season and beyond.

It would cost $47 million this year to amnesty him. And he could sign at the veteran's minimum to play for a competitor (Boston, Miami) or a rival (Pistons). It would suck to pay him to have success elsewhere.

Next year would make more sense, eating 2 years totalling $32 million and he would be less likely to be a significant contributor somewhere else and the cap space would be very useful.

If not amnestied in the next 2 years, his expiring contract becomes an asset in the summer of 2014.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It would cost $47 million this year to amnesty him. And he could sign at the veteran's minimum to play for a competitor (Boston, Miami) or a rival (Pistons). It would suck to pay him to have success elsewhere.

Next year would make more sense, eating 2 years totalling $32 million and he would be less likely to be a significant contributor somewhere else and the cap space would be very useful.

If not amnestied in the next 2 years, his expiring contract becomes an asset in the summer of 2014.

I don't think the money is the issue that the Bulls are as concerned about but where this team goes in the next few years. For Rose, Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Hamilton, the Bulls are already tied up with over $60 million, which is already above the cap. This doesn't include players like Korver, Asik, Taj, Brewer, or Watson. Financially, the Bulls cannot sign a decent free-agent nor can they make any good trades without blowing up their roster. IMO, amenstying Boozer makes a lot of sense for the future of the club. The discounted $47 mill will hurt, but if the Bulls want to win a championship, they need flexibility. I really like the core of Rose, Deng, and Noah, and I think the Bulls can keep this unit while tinkering with their line-up for the next two years.

[sagegrouse]

I don't think the money is the issue that the Bulls are as concerned about but where this team goes in the next few years. For Rose, Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Hamilton, the Bulls are already tied up with over $60 million, which is already above the cap. This doesn't include players like Korver, Asik, Taj, Brewer, or Watson. Financially, the Bulls cannot sign a decent free-agent nor can they make any good trades without blowing up their roster. IMO, amenstying Boozer makes a lot of sense for the future of the club. The discounted $47 mill will hurt, but if the Bulls want to win a championship, they need flexibility. I really like the core of Rose, Deng, and Noah, and I think the Bulls can keep this unit while tinkering with their line-up for the next two years.

This is not yet a TWEET!! TWEET!! subthread, but it is getting close. We are rehashing an old discussion about "blowin' up the Bulls" instead of talking about current deals.

This, of course is just IMHO, but the H is probably silent.

sagegrouse

[flyingdutchdevil]

Landry Fields - the only defensive backcourt player the Knicks have - got offered a $20 mill / 3 year deal from the Raptors. At roughly $7 mill a year, there is no way that the Knicks can retain him, especially considering that they are committed to $53 for 3 players and haven't yet resigned Lin.

Ouch - the Knicks can't catch a break.

[CDu]

I don't think the money is the issue that the Bulls are as concerned about but where this team goes in the next few years. For Rose, Boozer, Deng, Noah, and Hamilton, the Bulls are already tied up with over $60 million, which is already above the cap. This doesn't include players like Korver, Asik, Taj, Brewer, or Watson. Financially, the Bulls cannot sign a decent free-agent nor can they make any good trades without blowing up their roster. IMO, amenstying Boozer makes a lot of sense for the future of the club. The discounted $47 mill will hurt, but if the Bulls want to win a championship, they need flexibility. I really like the core of Rose, Deng, and Noah, and I think the Bulls can keep this unit while tinkering with their line-up for the next two years.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I like Deng in the mix long-term. I very much like him as a player, but he's basically just a really nice complementary player. I think the Bulls need to go with at least two upper-tier stars and a few complementary players along with young, inexpensive players. Deng is just priced in such a way that it will be difficult to add another star without going well into the luxury tax to do so.

[Billy Dat]

Landry Fields - the only defensive backcourt player the Knicks have - got offered a $20 mill / 3 year deal from the Raptors. At roughly $7 mill a year, there is no way that the Knicks can retain him, especially considering that they are committed to $53 for 3 players and haven't yet resigned Lin.

Ouch - the Knicks can't catch a break.

As a Knicks fan, I am resigned to the fact that we are in the Amare/Melo era for the next 4 years. Fields didn't fit well in that era. I am glad we won't have to overpay him. It look, though, like this is a big part of the Raps plan to block Nash from going to the Knicks as Fields could/would have been part of a sign-and-trade package. This offer sheet essentially prevents that from happening.

Fields is also Lin's best friend on the team, so team chemistry takes a hit.

[Turtleboy]

I swear, it takes some mighty royal blue glasses to spin that as a great triumph for Ferry when, among other things, he isn't even mentioned.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19467299/nets-hawks-look-like-winners-while-dwight-howards-left-holding-the-bag

[flyingdutchdevil]

I swear, it takes some mighty royal blue glasses to spin that as a great triumph for Ferry when, among other things, he isn't even mentioned.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19467299/nets-hawks-look-like-winners-while-dwight-howards-left-holding-the-bag

Yes he is:



Though it’s impossible to overstate the importance of the Nets landing an All-Star running mate in their effort to keep Williams, the real winner may ultimately wind up being the Hawks. In the span of two hours Monday, new GM Danny Ferry rid the franchise of Johnson’s crippling contract and eradicated the draft miscue of the decade, Marvin Williams, who was traded to the Jazz for Devin Harris. If not for the Hawks choosing Williams No. 2 in the 2005 draft -- one spot ahead of Deron Williams and Chris Paul, respectively -- none of what happened Monday would’ve transpired.

Sounds like decent praise to me.

[sagegrouse]

I swear, it takes some mighty royal blue glasses to spin that as a great triumph for Ferry when, among other things, he isn't even mentioned.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19467299/nets-hawks-look-like-winners-while-dwight-howards-left-holding-the-bag

Well: how about this paragraph?


Though it’s impossible to overstate the importance of the Nets landing an All-Star running mate in their effort to keep Williams, the real winner may ultimately wind up being the Hawks. In the span of two hours Monday, new GM Danny Ferry rid the franchise of Johnson’s crippling contract and eradicated the draft miscue of the decade, Marvin Williams, who was traded to the Jazz for Devin Harris. If not for the Hawks choosing Williams No. 2 in the 2005 draft -- one spot ahead of Deron Williams and Chris Paul, respectively -- none of what happened Monday would’ve transpired.

I think you may have missed the key paragraph. I know nothing about the Hawks and their history, but the Hawks' fans on this Board, notably Jason Evans, are yelling, "Hallelujah," at Ferry's immediate actions upon arrival.

sage

[NSDukeFan]

Well: how about this paragraph?



I think you may have missed the key paragraph. I know nothing about the Hawks and their history, but the Hawks' fans on this Board, notably Jason Evans, are yelling, "Hallelujah," at Ferry's immediate actions upon arrival.

sage

Perhaps Ferry has been reading the board to get some good ideas as GM.

[duke74]

Think this may have been born of the Nets' desperation to keep Deron Williams as much as Ferry's brilliance. In any regard, seems like a good thing for both franchises. (I think I read that the deal is contingent on Deron re-signing with the Nets.)

[sagegrouse]

According to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8128101/sources-deron-williams-chosen-brooklyn-nets-hometown-dallas-mavericks), Deron Williams is staying with the Nets.

sagegrouse

[weezie]

Perhaps Ferry has been reading the board to get some good ideas as GM.

One can only hope. Who doesn't enjoy free advice?:D:D:D

[CDu]

According to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8128101/sources-deron-williams-chosen-brooklyn-nets-hometown-dallas-mavericks), Deron Williams is staying with the Nets.

sagegrouse

So the Nets are now 2/3 of the way to getting their version of the "big three." If they can pull off the Dwight Howard trade, that team will look very interesting for the next few years (until Joe Johnson gets old).

[HK Dukie]

As a Hawks fan I am ecstatic about the moves Ferry has made already. This has nothing to do with Ferry going to Duke. He is finally brining some rationality to the Hawks and it should set them up pretty nicely.

If you don't take my word for it, or the CBS column, check out Hollinger's report on ESPN.

[Zeb]

He is finally bringing some rationality to the Hawks and it should set them up pretty nicely.

There's no question Ferry has helped the Hawks, but to me the real story are the GMs who helped him do it... Joe Johnson's contract might be the worst in the entire league ($90M owed to a 31 year old guard who's never been more than the third best player on an NBA team). Who would possibly take that abomination? Duke's own Billy King! And yet King is somehow getting praise for this! Let's see... he traded what turned out to be the 6th pick in a loaded draft to rent Gerald Wallace for a season, a season where they posted one of the worst records in the league. He then re-signed Wallace for $40M this summer--when he could have just done that without giving up the lottery pick. Now he's getting praise for keeping Deron Williams away from Dallas. He offered him $25M more than Dallas did--how is that a big accomplishment?

The Nets will have a decent starting lineup: Williams, Johnson, Wallace, Humphries, Lopez. But no depth and zero cap flexibility. They will be better than the other NYC team most likely, but I don't see them challenging the Heat or the Bulls, and their window could close pretty soon if Wallace (turns 30 this month) or Johnson breakdown. If they somehow still land Dwight Howard, then King is either the luckiest man alive or a genius, but almost no one thinks that is possible at this point. King certainly could have done much much worse, but for all the risk they took and all of the flexibility they have lost, I would want a better final result.

As for the other Ferry trade, what was Utah thinking taking 2 years of Marvin Williams for one year of Devin Harris? Ferry must have pictures of the Jazz GM.

[ice-9]

Now he's getting praise for keeping Deron Williams away from Dallas. He offered him $25M more than Dallas did--how is that a big accomplishment?

IIRC, the Nets contract is $100 million over 5 years, whereas the Dallas offer is $75 million over 4 years. So it's not THAT far apart. Think the real accomplishment is convincing Deron not to pair with Nowitzki and a proven team to make a run at the championship, but to instead commit to the Nets.

[theAlaskanBear]

So the Nets are now 2/3 of the way to getting their version of the "big three." If they can pull off the Dwight Howard trade, that team will look very interesting for the next few years (until Joe Johnson gets old).

What's that saying, "Old jump-shooters never get die, they just fade-away?" ;)

Some more minor transactions that have taken place:

Hornets waive Rashard Lewis. It is lights out for his career or will he try to rejuvenate himself without the pressure of his huge contract?
Eric Gordon and the PHX Suns agree to $58mil/4yr deal
The Rockets have reportedly come to terms with Jeremy Lin of the Knicks. With Landry agreeing to terms with Toronto, and JR Smith opting out to explore free agency, you will be seeing a vastly different NYKnicks team next year -- but the Knicks can still match Houston.

The Celtics are talking to Jason Terry -- they are less than optimistic about Ray Allen returning...thats actually a pretty good SG trade for the Celtics -- a slightly younger, great shooting G -- instant spark off the bench, will be a good complement to Avery Bradley.

[forbiddendonut]

"...eradicated the draft miscue of the decade, Marvin Williams..."

Joe Dumars is probably highlighting this phrase and emailing it to everyone he knows.

[hq2]

The Celtics are talking to Jason Terry -- they are less than optimistic about Ray Allen returning...thats actually a pretty good SG trade for the Celtics -- a slightly younger, great shooting G -- instant spark off the bench, will be a good complement to Avery Bradley.

C's got Terry. Think Ray is headed elsewhere. C's need to resign Jeff Green, which I think they will. Don't know if they'll get
Brandon Bass back; may get bought out by another team.

[JasonEvans]

So the Nets are now 2/3 of the way to getting their version of the "big three." If they can pull off the Dwight Howard trade, that team will look very interesting for the next few years (until Joe Johnson gets old).

I think the Nets are the ones leaking all the stuff about them getting Howard, perhaps to put some pressure on Orlando to make a deal. The package they are offering Orlando is not very enticing, though I think Brook Lopez is a very nice player and am amazed at how much people overlook him. Certainly the 1st round picks in the package are nothing special as a team with Howard, Deron Williams, and Joe Johnson would figure to hand you first round picks that are pretty far back in the first round, not lottery picks.

What's more, I don't think the Nets are even allowed to deal for Howard. They are not just over the cap but over it by a fairly large margin. To make the deal they would have to get under certain thresholds and the only way to do that would be to renounce their rights to players like Lopez and Humphries... which would leave them with nothing to deal for Howard. So, the only way to get Howard is to give up the pieces that might -- MIGHT -- be enticing enough to get Howard.

Dwight to the Nets ain't happening... unless something crazy happens and the Nets are able to fleece some great assets and cap space out of some other teams.

I think Orlando will deal Dwight to some other team -- perhaps the Lakers for Bynum or the Hawks for Josh Smith or Al Horford. What remains to be seen is whether Dwight will sign a new deal with that team right away or wait to see what he can get on the free market next off-season.

-Jason "this is a fun off-season!" Evans

[BD80]

"...eradicated the draft miscue of the decade, Marvin Williams..."

Joe Dumars is probably highlighting this phrase and emailing it to everyone he knows.

Come on, you have to give Drummond at least SOME time before you compare him to Williams. ...

Oh wait, well, Austin Daye wasn't that high a pick, so he really shouldn't qualify. ...

Ohhhh, Darko. Well, Joe just signed another "athletic" 7' center from Europe - just to keep the memory alive. Besides, 2003 was almost more than a decade ago ...

[COYS]

I think the Nets are the ones leaking all the stuff about them getting Howard, perhaps to put some pressure on Orlando to make a deal. The package they are offering Orlando is not very enticing, though I think Brook Lopez is a very nice player and am amazed at how much people overlook him. Certainly the 1st round picks in the package are nothing special as a team with Howard, Deron Williams, and Joe Johnson would figure to hand you first round picks that are pretty far back in the first round, not lottery picks.

What's more, I don't think the Nets are even allowed to deal for Howard. They are not just over the cap but over it by a fairly large margin. To make the deal they would have to get under certain thresholds and the only way to do that would be to renounce their rights to players like Lopez and Humphries... which would leave them with nothing to deal for Howard. So, the only way to get Howard is to give up the pieces that might -- MIGHT -- be enticing enough to get Howard.

Dwight to the Nets ain't happening... unless something crazy happens and the Nets are able to fleece some great assets and cap space out of some other teams.

I think Orlando will deal Dwight to some other team -- perhaps the Lakers for Bynum or the Hawks for Josh Smith or Al Horford. What remains to be seen is whether Dwight will sign a new deal with that team right away or wait to see what he can get on the free market next off-season.

-Jason "this is a fun off-season!" Evans

As a preface, I, like Jason, am an Atlanta sports fan so I'm a little biased, but I completely agree with this analysis. There's NO WAY the Nets are getting Howard unless the NBA randomly decides to do away with the salary cap all of a sudden. Even next season it will be very, very tough for the Nets to get far enough under the cap to sign Howard unless Howard is willing to take well below max . . . and I don't mean a little below max like Bosh, Wade, and James apparently did to make things work in Miami. I'm of course hopeful that the Hawks can figure out a way to put together a package for Howard. Sending Horford, one other player decent player or pick, and a few expiring contracts (of which the Hawks have MANY) to Orlando has got to be one of the more attractive deals and certainly far better than anything the Nets can offer. A deal that sends Josh Smith to Orlando would also work, as Horford has probably been playing out of position as a center for most of his career and would probably work well beside Howard in the front court. However, I'd imagine that playing alongside Smith would be one of the major selling points the Hawks use to persuade Howard to sign with ATL. Bynum for Howard is also a strong deal. I just don't see any deal that the Nets can work out that Orlando could possibly say was better than either of these two deals. Any hang up will be related to Howard's willingness (or unwillingness) to sign an extension. While Howard has been very narrow in the teams he's publicly asked to be traded to, I certainly hope that Atlanta, with it's new management, location in Dwight's hometown, and ability to put together a contender with Howard, Smith, and perhaps Paul as its core, has moved onto Howard's list, or at least piqued his interest.

[MIKESJ73]

How about the Lakers adding Steve Nash. Nash is apparently trying to talk longtime buddy/teammate Grant Hill to come join him in LA. How many games better will the Lakers be just exchanging headcase SF's Matt Barnes & Metta World Peace in the lockerroom with Grant Hill. I would love for Grant to go out with a Championship.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/sources-steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal

[MChambers]

Nash is trying to convince him. I'd instantly become a Lakers fan.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8130840

[Newton_14]

Phoenix has also signed Hornets SG (and potential Austin Rivers running mate) Eric Gordon, to a 4yr $58 million offer sheet. The Hornets will have 3 days to match the offer, starting on July 11, when league business resumes. The Hornets are expected to match the offer however.

Linky (http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/07/04/eric-gordon-hornets-suns/?sct=hp_wr_a3&eref=sihp)

[BobbyFan]

How about the Lakers adding Steve Nash. Nash is apparently trying to talk longtime buddy/teammate Grant Hill to come join him in LA. How many games better will the Lakers be just exchanging headcase SF's Matt Barnes & Metta World Peace in the lockerroom with Grant Hill. I would love for Grant to go out with a Championship.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/sources-steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal

I'd love to see Grant win a title. And Nash is a player whose resume just doesn't seem right without one. But I need some time before deciding if that's enough to actually make me root for the Lakers.

As for the trade, it certainly helps the Lakers a good amount. But they aren't getting a player who will have the impact that Nash did in Phoenix.

[BD80]

What a deal for the Lakers, essentially traded Lamar Odom for Nash (and Hill?)

Low first round picks can be a burden - having to give guaranteed money to a rookie who won't see the floor. The low second round picks are essentially worthless.

[JasonEvans]

What a deal for the Lakers, essentially traded Lamar Odom for Nash (and Hill?)

Low first round picks can be a burden - having to give guaranteed money to a rookie who won't see the floor. The low second round picks are essentially worthless.

Well, one injury to a rapidly aging Kobe Bryant and those low first and second rounders could become fairly high picks... perhaps even lottery picks.

Still, I love this deal for LA. No, Nash is not the player he was during his heyday in Phoenix, but he is still a tremendously creative PG and passer. It will ease some of the burden on Kobe to create everything in LA on offense and I can see guys like Gasol and Bynum really thriving off of Nash's passes. I dunno how the Lakers do it, but if they can add Grant Hill too... well, I would be over the moon to see Grant finally get a well-deserved deep playoff run and I think he would be in line for one on that Lakers team.

-Jason "baseball has the best trade deadline but the NBA off season is waaaay better than any other sport... nothing else even close" Evans

[rhynelander]

"Sources told ESPN.com that Nash will try to convince longtime teammate Grant Hill, one of his closest friends in the game, to join him with the Lakers."

Could make for an interesting new look Lakers team, not sure if all those old legs have enough run left in them......

"ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher reported over the weekend the Lakers were one of four teams (along with Toronto, New York and Phoenix) in the running for Hill after the 39-year-old's recent trip to Germany to undergo the same platelet-enrichment treatment on his knee that Bryant credited for his rejuvenated knee last season."

Perhaps not.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal

[NSDukeFan]

Well, one injury to a rapidly aging Kobe Bryant and those low first and second rounders could become fairly high picks... perhaps even lottery picks.

Still, I love this deal for LA. No, Nash is not the player he was during his heyday in Phoenix, but he is still a tremendously creative PG and passer. It will ease some of the burden on Kobe to create everything in LA on offense and I can see guys like Gasol and Bynum really thriving off of Nash's passes. I dunno how the Lakers do it, but if they can add Grant Hill too... well, I would be over the moon to see Grant finally get a well-deserved deep playoff run and I think he would be in line for one on that Lakers team.

-Jason "baseball has the best trade deadline but the NBA off season is waaaay better than any other sport... nothing else even close" Evans

As a Steve Nash fan, I really like that he will hopefully get a chance at a deep playoff run. I also wonder how much fun he and Pau Gasol will have playing together, as they are both smart, good passing players. I hope and think Kobe will enjoy how this team will be able to move the ball, if Kobe and Nash learn to share the ball and they can Bynum and Gasol can clog the lane defensively. I am now a Lakers fan again for the first time since Showtime.

[FerryFor50]

3 years left

2012 $15,000,000
2013 $15,300,000
2014 $16,800,000

I agree he's overpaid, but I think he's not as overpaid as Pau Gasol, whom everyone thinks is better than sliced bread.

Pau and Boozer's number line up very similarly. They score about the same, with an edge to Pau (18.7 for Pau, 17 for Boozer). Boozer rebounds better (9.9 to 9.2, despite being 3 inches shorter) and Pau dishes more assists (3.2 to 2.4) and plays a little better defense. They both play similar offensive games - face up mostly, with good mid-range touch. Boozer shoots around 54% from the field, Gasol around 52%.

As for their PER, it's not that far off. Boozer averaged 20.5 PER for his career. Gasol averaged 21.9.

The biggest discrepancy between the two is the contract.

Pau has two years remaining at $19,000,000 and $19,285,850...

Boozer's is an albatross, but is a few million less than Pau. With the salary cap, that number matters.

[FerryFor50]

As a preface, I, like Jason, am an Atlanta sports fan so I'm a little biased, but I completely agree with this analysis. There's NO WAY the Nets are getting Howard unless the NBA randomly decides to do away with the salary cap all of a sudden. Even next season it will be very, very tough for the Nets to get far enough under the cap to sign Howard unless Howard is willing to take well below max . . . and I don't mean a little below max like Bosh, Wade, and James apparently did to make things work in Miami. I'm of course hopeful that the Hawks can figure out a way to put together a package for Howard. Sending Horford, one other player decent player or pick, and a few expiring contracts (of which the Hawks have MANY) to Orlando has got to be one of the more attractive deals and certainly far better than anything the Nets can offer. A deal that sends Josh Smith to Orlando would also work, as Horford has probably been playing out of position as a center for most of his career and would probably work well beside Howard in the front court. However, I'd imagine that playing alongside Smith would be one of the major selling points the Hawks use to persuade Howard to sign with ATL. Bynum for Howard is also a strong deal. I just don't see any deal that the Nets can work out that Orlando could possibly say was better than either of these two deals. Any hang up will be related to Howard's willingness (or unwillingness) to sign an extension. While Howard has been very narrow in the teams he's publicly asked to be traded to, I certainly hope that Atlanta, with it's new management, location in Dwight's hometown, and ability to put together a contender with Howard, Smith, and perhaps Paul as its core, has moved onto Howard's list, or at least piqued his interest.

Actually, there is apparently a scenario where Brooklyn can make a Howard deal work.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/basketball/nba/07/04/dwight-howard-nets-magic-mirza-teletovic/index.html

[FerryFor50]

Suns look like they're getting Dragic and Beasley:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/basketball/nba/07/04/michael-beasley-signs-with-phoenix-suns.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a13&eref=sihp

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/07/05/goran-dragic-to-phoenix-suns/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a14&eref=sihp

Interesting makeup of this team in the post-Nash era. I think they've done relatively well to keep this team competitive.

Dragic
Eric Gordon
Beasley
Gortat

Then they still have Jared Dudley, who's shown some flashes of being decent, and we'll see how good Kendall Marshall ends up being.

Not the greatest team, but still, not the Bobcats.

[BD80]

I agree he's overpaid, but I think he's not as overpaid as Pau Gasol, whom everyone thinks is better than sliced bread.

Pau and Boozer's number line up very similarly. They score about the same, with an edge to Pau (18.7 for Pau, 17 for Boozer). Boozer rebounds better (9.9 to 9.2, despite being 3 inches shorter) and Pau dishes more assists (3.2 to 2.4) and plays a little better defense. They both play similar offensive games - face up mostly, with good mid-range touch. Boozer shoots around 54% from the field, Gasol around 52%.

As for their PER, it's not that far off. Boozer averaged 20.5 PER for his career. Gasol averaged 21.9.

The biggest discrepancy between the two is the contract.

Pau has two years remaining at $19,000,000 and $19,285,850...

Boozer's is an albatross, but is a few million less than Pau. With the salary cap, that number matters.

The Lakers are so far over the cap, the only impact the cap has is the amount of luxury tax the Lakers pay, I imagine they are at the 2:1 payment level. So the extra $4 mil to Gasol is really $12 mil - but its only money. The Lakers are still profitable.

Otherwise they are still limited in their roster moves by the salary cap. That is why the trade exemption they got for the Lamar Odom to Dallas trade was so important, it allowed them to trade for Nash with a hefty new contract.

Gasol's contract may actually be an asset next year as an expiring contract- particularky as GMs continue to throw around stupid money for less than star talent.

[FerryFor50]

The Lakers are so far over the cap, the only impact the cap has is the amount of luxury tax the Lakers pay, I imagine they are at the 2:1 payment level. So the extra $4 mil to Gasol is really $12 mil - but its only money. The Lakers are still profitable.

Otherwise they are still limited in their roster moves by the salary cap. That is why the trade exemption they got for the Lamar Odom to Dallas trade was so important, it allowed them to trade for Nash with a hefty new contract.

Gasol's contract may actually be an asset next year as an expiring contract- particularky as GMs continue to throw around stupid money for less than star talent.

I think it is also why they're having trouble finding a buyer for Gasol. They want entirely too much for a player that is not nearly worth the money he costs. The teams that are interested in Gasol generally cannot afford him, as they're small market teams.

But yes, once his deal becomes an expiring contract, someone will trade for him.

[superdave]

I'd love to see Grant win a title. And Nash is a player whose resume just doesn't seem right without one. But I need some time before deciding if that's enough to actually make me root for the Lakers.

As for the trade, it certainly helps the Lakers a good amount. But they aren't getting a player who will have the impact that Nash did in Phoenix.

I would love to see Hill and Nash team up in LA and win a title. First, I'd love it for Grant Hill. Second, Kobe could win his 6th title which would equal Jordan. Jordan is Unc guy, therefore I hate him and would love to be able to say Kobe is his equal (even if it's a big stretch).

Nash should be able to spread the floor for the Lakers with his shooting and get the bigs and Kobe better shots. Their offense should be a step or two better than last season. Nash is a defensive liability, but Kobe and Bynum can cover up some of that.

Any update on when Grant Hill will choose a destination?

[superdave]

I think it is also why they're having trouble finding a buyer for Gasol. They want entirely too much for a player that is not nearly worth the money he costs. The teams that are interested in Gasol generally cannot afford him, as they're small market teams.

But yes, once his deal becomes an expiring contract, someone will trade for him.

Houston was hot after Gasol last off-season but are not so much any more. Gasol's production has faded a little each of the past few years. His shooting % is dropping and I'd expect at 32 he will fade more rapidly the next 2-3 years. The Laker should have traded him this past season but each day they do not, his trade value drops a little.

The best way to trade him was for an unhappy guy (Josh Smith) or for another bad contract (Boozer). But at $19 million, that takes some creativity. A team like Charlotte kid think they can win now and swing a deal. Otherwise, swapping bad contracts might be the only way he moves.

[BD80]

What a deal for the Lakers, essentially traded Lamar Odom for Nash (and Hill?)

Low first round picks can be a burden - having to give guaranteed money to a rookie who won't see the floor. The low second round picks are essentially worthless.

Suns also picked up $3 Mil in the deal (the max allowed)

They'll probably sell the draft picks too.

[COYS]

I would love to see Hill and Nash team up in LA and win a title. First, I'd love it for Grant Hill. Second, Kobe could win his 6th title which would equal Jordan. Jordan is Unc guy, therefore I hate him and would love to be able to say Kobe is his equal (even if it's a big stretch).

Nash should be able to spread the floor for the Lakers with his shooting and get the bigs and Kobe better shots. Their offense should be a step or two better than last season. Nash is a defensive liability, but Kobe and Bynum can cover up some of that.

Any update on when Grant Hill will choose a destination?

Nash is also one of the best shooters the NBA has ever seen. I think his assist rate will drop mostly because his overall usage rate will drop with Kobe handling the rock a lot. However, he'll be surrounded by better passers than he's ever had, before. Gasol and Kobe are both good passers and I expect Nash to get quite a few open three point looks every game off of kick outs. We'll see how quickly Kobe adjusts to having someone with Nash's shooting ability on the court. If the team adjusts quickly, as a whole, I think the Lakers will be far better rounded. And while I agree that Gasol is probably not worth the money he's making, I don't see why the Lakers wouldn't try to give it one more go with the Kobe/Gasol/Bynum trio, especially if they upgrade with Nash at the point and Grant at SF. Even with Nash, that lineup should be pretty strong defensively, and offensively it has a TON of potential.

[FerryFor50]

Houston was hot after Gasol last off-season but are not so much any more. Gasol's production has faded a little each of the past few years. His shooting % is dropping and I'd expect at 32 he will fade more rapidly the next 2-3 years. The Laker should have traded him this past season but each day they do not, his trade value drops a little.

The best way to trade him was for an unhappy guy (Josh Smith) or for another bad contract (Boozer). But at $19 million, that takes some creativity. A team like Charlotte kid think they can win now and swing a deal. Otherwise, swapping bad contracts might be the only way he moves.

Well, as Houston has shown with the $30 million dollar contract offer to Jeremy Lin and the 3yr/$25 million offer to Omer Asik, they're not the brightest bulbs in the shed. They may still go after Gasol. The problem is LA. They *only* seem want top tier talent for Gasol (like Dwight Howard) currently. They need to get a reality check and realize they should take what they can get or make it work with Gasol.

Personally, now that they have Nash, I don't think LA needs to trade Pau or Bynum because they fixed the problem - find someone to get them the ball that is respected enough to get it out of Kobe's hands.

[BD80]

Well, as Houston has shown with the $30 million dollar contract offer to Jeremy Lin and the 3yr/$25 million offer to Omer Asik, they're not the brightest bulbs in the shed. ...

and the Knicks are matching the offer to Lin ...

Frankly, the Lin issue is more one of selling tickets than basketball wins.

[FerryFor50]

and the Knicks are matching the offer to Lin ...

Frankly, the Lin issue is more one of selling tickets than basketball wins.

Yes, but the Knicks have to match after missing on Nash. So it's understandable (including the ticket sales).

Houston, on the other hand, was more of Daryl Morey kicking himself for being the last team to give up on Lin. He wants to show everyone how smart he is.

[Billy Dat]

Well, as Houston has shown with the $30 million dollar contract offer to Jeremy Lin and the 3yr/$25 million offer to Omer Asik, they're not the brightest bulbs in the shed.

I have to disagree with you, here. Houston's GM, Daryl Morey, is widely regarded as one of the best in the business. Here's a good defense of the Asik signing:

"On to the next question: Is he (Asik) worth it?
That's a bit of an eye-of-the-beholder question. Asik's advanced stats support the subjective viewpoint that he's one of the five or 10 best defensive players in basketball, and defense in general tends to be wildly underrated in the free-agent market (although weirdly, not in the draft). He is also, objectively, a monstrous rebounder, with his 20.1 rebound rate ranking sixth in the NBA last season.
Asik is a terrible offensive player, however, with bad hands, poor touch and a proclivity for illegal screens. Advanced stats seem to indicate that he takes away almost as much with his offense as he does with his defense -- but that overall he's a plus, even compared to the league average.
And that, in the big picture, makes him a second-tier starting center. And you know how much those are worth? About $8 million a year. Houston should know; they just paid nearly the same amount to the departed Samuel Dalembert.
Houston will hope Asik can improve on that prognosis by upping his offensive production to slightly less pathetic levels, with the tutelage of Kevin McHale, but even so his defense justifies the contract.
It also helps that Houston gets somebody under lock and key before re-signing its own free agents. The cap holds for Lee and Goran Dragic are low enough that it behooves the Rockets to use the cap space first, and then rebuild their backcourt.
From there, Houston can go in any number of directions, depending on Dwight Howard's availability and the market for Kyle Lowry. But first they took care of the most urgent need; if the Bulls don't match, the Rockets will have a real starting center this year, and they won't be overpaying for him."

[CDu]

I have to disagree with you, here. Houston's GM, Daryl Morey, is widely regarded as one of the best in the business. Here's a good defense of the Asik signing:

"On to the next question: Is he (Asik) worth it?
That's a bit of an eye-of-the-beholder question. Asik's advanced stats support the subjective viewpoint that he's one of the five or 10 best defensive players in basketball, and defense in general tends to be wildly underrated in the free-agent market (although weirdly, not in the draft). He is also, objectively, a monstrous rebounder, with his 20.1 rebound rate ranking sixth in the NBA last season.
Asik is a terrible offensive player, however, with bad hands, poor touch and a proclivity for illegal screens. Advanced stats seem to indicate that he takes away almost as much with his offense as he does with his defense -- but that overall he's a plus, even compared to the league average.
And that, in the big picture, makes him a second-tier starting center. And you know how much those are worth? About $8 million a year. Houston should know; they just paid nearly the same amount to the departed Samuel Dalembert.
Houston will hope Asik can improve on that prognosis by upping his offensive production to slightly less pathetic levels, with the tutelage of Kevin McHale, but even so his defense justifies the contract.
It also helps that Houston gets somebody under lock and key before re-signing its own free agents. The cap holds for Lee and Goran Dragic are low enough that it behooves the Rockets to use the cap space first, and then rebuild their backcourt.
From there, Houston can go in any number of directions, depending on Dwight Howard's availability and the market for Kyle Lowry. But first they took care of the most urgent need; if the Bulls don't match, the Rockets will have a real starting center this year, and they won't be overpaying for him."

Yeah, I think $8 million per year for Asik might be reasonable, IF you expect him to be your starting C. It is not reasonable if you expect him to be a backup. Considering that all the discussion surrounded the Rockets trading around to get into the Howard sweepstakes, it is a bit weird. But maybe they've decided they're out of the Howard sweepstakes.

As a Bulls fan, I hope that the Bulls don't match the offer unless they intend to trade Noah. I don't want to be paying tons of money for a backup C moving forward.

[FerryFor50]

I have to disagree with you, here. Houston's GM, Daryl Morey, is widely regarded as one of the best in the business. Here's a good defense of the Asik signing:

"On to the next question: Is he (Asik) worth it?
That's a bit of an eye-of-the-beholder question. Asik's advanced stats support the subjective viewpoint that he's one of the five or 10 best defensive players in basketball, and defense in general tends to be wildly underrated in the free-agent market (although weirdly, not in the draft). He is also, objectively, a monstrous rebounder, with his 20.1 rebound rate ranking sixth in the NBA last season.
Asik is a terrible offensive player, however, with bad hands, poor touch and a proclivity for illegal screens. Advanced stats seem to indicate that he takes away almost as much with his offense as he does with his defense -- but that overall he's a plus, even compared to the league average.
And that, in the big picture, makes him a second-tier starting center. And you know how much those are worth? About $8 million a year. Houston should know; they just paid nearly the same amount to the departed Samuel Dalembert.
Houston will hope Asik can improve on that prognosis by upping his offensive production to slightly less pathetic levels, with the tutelage of Kevin McHale, but even so his defense justifies the contract.
It also helps that Houston gets somebody under lock and key before re-signing its own free agents. The cap holds for Lee and Goran Dragic are low enough that it behooves the Rockets to use the cap space first, and then rebuild their backcourt.
From there, Houston can go in any number of directions, depending on Dwight Howard's availability and the market for Kyle Lowry. But first they took care of the most urgent need; if the Bulls don't match, the Rockets will have a real starting center this year, and they won't be overpaying for him."

Generally he has made good moves, but they've been smaller, less risky ones. But I think he's getting antsy to make a "splash" move, hence him trying to get Howard by getting more draft picks.

Asik at 8 million when there really wasn't that much of a market for him is a bad move. Defensive-oriented big men not named Dwight Howard generally should make more like what Chris Andersen (4 mil) or Kenneth Faried (1.2 mil) makes.

Asik is garnering Marcus Camby money for what is less than Marcus Camby production (17.6 PER vs 12.6 PER).

Since Asik couldn't crack the rotation in Chicago under a defensive minded coach with Taj Gibson as his primary competitor for those minutes, doesn't that raise some eyebrows?

Asik's per 36 min stats show he'd be an 8ppg, 12rpg and 2.5 bpg guy, but would probably foul out quite often (5 fouls per game).

Camby's per 36: 11.7 ppg, 12rpg, 3 bpg, 3.4 fouls per game.

If advanced stats were the end all-be all, then Chris Andersen would be making 12 mil per year. I think Asik is more Chris Andersen than Marcus Camby.

[Billy Dat]

Yeah, I think $8 million per year for Asik might be reasonable, IF you expect him to be your starting C. It is not reasonable if you expect him to be a backup. Considering that all the discussion surrounded the Rockets trading around to get into the Howard sweepstakes, it is a bit weird. But maybe they've decided they're out of the Howard sweepstakes.

As a Bulls fan, I hope that the Bulls don't match the offer unless they intend to trade Noah. I don't want to be paying tons of money for a backup C moving forward.

I think all you can hope is to pay someone what they are worth so that they don't kill your payroll and/or they are a viable trade chip. I was inspired to respond by the notion that Morey would make any moves out of emotion or a need to show off. He has never struck me as that kind of guy. If the Lin offer is gamesmanship, which it may be, it has to involve a plot deeper than embarrassment over not keeping him last year. Everyone missed on Lin, including the Knicks who were a day or two from cutting him themselves. His emergence was one of the great happy accidents in NBA history.

As for Lin, coming from a Knicks fan, the kid is HUGELY important for the team because he is the favorite player of most Knicks fans over the age of 40 and under the age of 15....the father/son teams that go to games together and buy the merch. The kid saved our season. Granted, there is a chance he'll flop, but I think he's worth the risk and I think the risk is small. For the next 4 years, the Knicks are Amare, Melo, Chandler and Lin...that's our bed and we shall lie in it.

[FerryFor50]

I think all you can hope is to pay someone what they are worth so that they don't kill your payroll and/or they are a viable trade chip. I was inspired to respond by the notion that Morey would make any moves out of emotion or a need to show off. He has never struck me as that kind of guy. If the Lin offer is gamesmanship, which it may be, it has to involve a plot deeper than embarrassment over not keeping him last year. Everyone missed on Lin, including the Knicks who were a day or two from cutting him themselves. His emergence was one of the great happy accidents in NBA history.

As for Lin, coming from a Knicks fan, the kid is HUGELY important for the team because he is the favorite player of most Knicks fans over the age of 40 and under the age of 15....the father/son teams that go to games together and buy the merch. The kid saved our season. Granted, there is a chance he'll flop, but I think he's worth the risk and I think the risk is small. For the next 4 years, the Knicks are Amare, Melo, Chandler and Lin...that's our bed and we shall lie in it.

I guess you don't recall his comments on Twitter after Lin blew up? :)

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7558830/houston-rockets-gm-daryl-morey-regrets-cutting-new-york-knicks-pg-jeremy-lin

"We should have kept [Jeremy Lin]. Did not know he was this good," Morey wrote on his official Twitter account on Thursday. "Anyone who says they knew misleading U."

I think Lin will be solid, but I think the offer is a mea culpa moreso than sticking it to the Knicks...

[superdave]

Nash is also one of the best shooters the NBA has ever seen. I think his assist rate will drop mostly because his overall usage rate will drop with Kobe handling the rock a lot. However, he'll be surrounded by better passers than he's ever had, before. Gasol and Kobe are both good passers and I expect Nash to get quite a few open three point looks every game off of kick outs. We'll see how quickly Kobe adjusts to having someone with Nash's shooting ability on the court. If the team adjusts quickly, as a whole, I think the Lakers will be far better rounded. And while I agree that Gasol is probably not worth the money he's making, I don't see why the Lakers wouldn't try to give it one more go with the Kobe/Gasol/Bynum trio, especially if they upgrade with Nash at the point and Grant at SF. Even with Nash, that lineup should be pretty strong defensively, and offensively it has a TON of potential.

I wonder if the Lakers would amnesty Metta Artest. He makes $7.2m and $7.7m the next two seasons. If they got Grant Hill to come, amnesty Artest and go after another player, they'd be in pretty good shape. Artest has shot below 40% on FGs the last two seasons and dropped below 30% on 3s this season. His rebounding and scoring are way off and he's just not wort the trouble anymore.

The Lakers cannot be done yet. They need some young legs to run with Nash. I can see them playing big some games and small some games depending on matchups. It will be really interesting to see what additional players they add, and how they gel next year. Cool team on paper.

[Billy Dat]

I guess you don't recall his comments on Twitter after Lin blew up? :)

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7558830/houston-rockets-gm-daryl-morey-regrets-cutting-new-york-knicks-pg-jeremy-lin

"We should have kept [Jeremy Lin]. Did not know he was this good," Morey wrote on his official Twitter account on Thursday. "Anyone who says they knew misleading U."

I think Lin will be solid, but I think the offer is a mea culpa moreso than sticking it to the Knicks...

A mea culpa to who? Houston fans?

Perhaps I am being a bit of a Morey apologist, but with so many really bad moves being made by GMs, his ability to keep Houston right near the playoff cut line every year with a really low payroll makes me admire the guy, and I think his owner (Les Alexander) loves him for it. He made a pretty splashy move last year by acquiring Pau Gasol only to have David Stern veto the deal.

[FerryFor50]

Kyle Lowry headed to Toronto after they miss out on Nash:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/05/raptors-trade-pick-houston-kyle-lowry/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

Not a fan of this move. I don't find Lowry much better than Calderon, and Jerryd Bayless still has upside.

[FerryFor50]

A mea culpa to who? Houston fans?

Perhaps I am being a bit of a Morey apologist, but with so many really bad moves being made by GMs, and his ability to keep Houston right near the playoff cut line every year with a really low payroll makes me admire the guy, and I think his owner (Les Alexander) loves him for it. He made a pretty splashy move last year by acquiring Pau Gasol only to have David Stern veto the deal.

I think it was a mea culpa to fans, as well as to himself.

Plus, I think he's looking to re-energize the Chinese market that still loves the Rockets after Yao Ming's run.

[Billy Dat]

Plus, I think he's looking to re-energize the Chinese market that still loves the Rockets after Yao Ming's run.

That is an excellent point that I had not considered.

[Billy Dat]

The Knicks are getting Kidd after all....very happy to have him to, hopefully, mentor Lin.

[Starter]

Kyle Lowry headed to Toronto after they miss out on Nash:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/05/raptors-trade-pick-houston-kyle-lowry/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

Not a fan of this move. I don't find Lowry much better than Calderon, and Jerryd Bayless still has upside.

Lowry's a pretty big upgrade on Calderon. Until he had that weird infection last year, he was going nuts, basically 16-8-5. Plus, Calderon is a sieve and Lowry can play some defense.

[hq2]

Celtics have resigned Brandon Bass. They now have all of their (smoothly functioning) starting team back.
With Jeff Green, Sullinger, and Jason Terry on the bench next year, I'd say they will be a force to be dealt
with. They may still lose to the Heat in the end, but with some more young legs out there, things might
be different. Definitely will still be a force in the East.

[Starter]

The Knicks are getting Kidd after all....very happy to have him to, hopefully, mentor Lin.

Regardless of what kind of shape he's currently in, I would have preferred the return of Ray Felton, especially considering the three-year deal (!) Kidd is getting. I appreciate your optimism, but as a Knicks fan who basically despises the team at this point, I consider it a dreadful signing, yet indicative of the current state of the franchise's ownership and decision-making process.

[A-Tex Devil]

I think it was a mea culpa to fans, as well as to himself.

Plus, I think he's looking to re-energize the Chinese market that still loves the Rockets after Yao Ming's run.

The Rockets cut Lin because they had to. No GM in the NBA would have kept Lin when you already had Lowrey, Dragic (and one other -- can't remember). Lin was the odd man out in Houston behind proven talent. And I'd still prefer Lowrey and Dragic to Lin (although clearly Daryl Morey doesn't).

Golden State is the team that let Lin go that shouldn't have. They had room, but didn't see the potential.

[BD80]

Regardless of what kind of shape he's currently in, I would have preferred the return of Ray Felton, especially considering the three-year deal (!) Kidd is getting. I appreciate your optimism, but as a Knicks fan who basically despises the team at this point, I consider it a dreadful signing, yet indicative of the current state of the franchise's ownership and decision-making process.

Kidd is only getting $3 Mil/yr. The word "only" sure seems out of place in that sentence.

But a $3 mil contract in today's NBA is minimum wage for a veteran like Kidd.

[FerryFor50]

Lowry's a pretty big upgrade on Calderon. Until he had that weird infection last year, he was going nuts, basically 16-8-5. Plus, Calderon is a sieve and Lowry can play some defense.

I disagree. Calderon is a better passer and shooter. But agree that Calderon's not great on defense... however, Toronto's defensive woes go beyond the PG position.

Calderon averaged 9 assists per game passing to basically no one worth mentioning outside of Demarr Derozen (since Bargnani was injured). He also rarely turns it over (2 per game compared to 2.8 for Lowry). Calderon also shoots a higher % from the field.

Lowry's career PER: 15.9
Calderon''s career PER 17.4

[FerryFor50]

I bet the Mavs go after Lin now that they missed on Kidd...

[BD80]

I bet the Mavs go after Lin now that they missed on Kidd...

Lin is reported to have chosen to sign Houston's offer sheet, NY reportedly intends to match.

[hq2]

Lin is reported to have chosen to sign Houston's offer sheet, NY reportedly intends to match.

Lin would be a fool to leave New York. He can make about 10 times more in marketing than he can playing basketball. NY is the place
for him to be.

[BD80]

Lin would be a fool to leave New York. He can make about 10 times more in marketing than he can playing basketball. NY is the place
for him to be.

Bright lights can get pretty hot. What happens if next year he does not perform at the same level? NY can be brutal.

Rockets offer: $30 million over 4 years. He also has some endorsement value in Houston.

[FerryFor50]

Brandon Roy and Nicholas Batum sign with Minnesota.

Guess Wayne Ellington wasn't the answer...

[BD80]

Brandon Roy and Nicholas Batum sign with Minnesota.

Guess Wayne Ellington wasn't the answer...

Portland has no intention of letting Bantum go.

If you are a restricted free agent like Bantum who supposeddly wants out, is signing a 3-yr offer sheet the way to go? If/when Portland matches, he's stuck there for three more years (then still a restricted FA?).

[CDu]

Portland has no intention of letting Bantum go.

If you are a restricted free agent like Bantum who supposeddly wants out, is signing a 3-yr offer sheet the way to go? If/when Portland matches, he's stuck there for three more years (then still a restricted FA?).

It's Batum, not Bantum. And with regard to your question, he's not a restricted free agent after the 3-year deal. Then, he's a full-on free agent. But yes, unless you know for sure that your team won't match, it's a gamble to sign. The tradeoff is a lot more guaranteed money (the qualifying offer is much less than the restricted free agent offer) OR the freedom to sign where you want to sign 2 years sooner. If you take the qualifying offer, there's a risk you get screwed by injury. If you sign another offer, there's the risk you're stuck in place for 3 more years (but you get more guaranteed money).

[flyingdutchdevil]

Bright lights can get pretty hot. What happens if next year he does not perform at the same level? NY can be brutal.

Rockets offer: $30 million over 4 years. He also has some endorsement value in Houston.

I must admit - I really love free agency. Teams make or break themselves in the span of a few weeks every July. However, I must also admit that I'm not a fan of the restricted free agency system, and not because it's detrimental to the players' wishes, but rather detrimental to the salary cap.

With restricted free agency, I feel like teams are willing to offer more money (see Gordon, Eric & Lin, Jeremy & my personal favorite - Fields, Landry) than unrestricted free agency. I think this is a competitive analysis issue: if team [x] wants player [z] who is a restricted free agent, they need to offer that player enough money for player [z] to want to sign. That monetary value needs to be high enough that player [z] wants to leave his current team [y]. But team [x] will most likely inflate the price of their offering so that if team [y] really wants to keep player [z], there is a high chance that team [y] retains player [z]. And if team [y] doesn't sign player [z], then team [x]'s cap gets killed. In essence, one team will get this player whose contract is inflated, which leads us back to the essential issues of this year's lock-out. I think the one major flaw in this is what if team [y] doesn't resign player [z] - then team [x] gets screwed, but they did that upon themselves.

I may be way off base, but I feel like restricted free agency leads to more inflated salaries than unrestricted free agency. I feel that this "I know Houston wants to retain player [z], so I'll offer that player something outrageous to kill Houston's cap" mentality leads to a lot of bad decisions.

Thoughts?

[CDu]

I may be way off base, but I feel like restricted free agency leads to more inflated salaries than unrestricted free agency. I feel that this "I know Houston wants to retain player [z], so I'll offer that player something outrageous to kill Houston's cap" mentality leads to a lot of bad decisions.

Thoughts?

You're probably correct. It's an unintended consequence of the system. Theoretically, though, a good GM/organization won't make the mistake of paying the inflated price (unless the inflated price is for an absolute star).

In this era of salary cap and luxury tax rules, you have to constantly reload your complementary players. Those are the guys that get overpriced in restricted free agency/free agency. They're also (theoretically) the easiest to replace.

The new system essentially lends itself to one of two models for success:
1. Sign 2-3 superstars and add cheap role players around them (the Heat model)
2. Stink for 3-5 years and acquire enough talent through the lottery (the Thunder model)

Overspending for mid-level talent can get you consistently in the playoffs, but not over the top. And getting consistently in the playoffs can actually be a negative (in terms of competing for championships) because it robs you of high draft picks.

Finding good rookies are the most cost-effective way to improve your team, because they're the only ones on "reasonable" contracts. The challenge is finding the right rookies.

[Billy Dat]

You're probably correct. It's an unintended consequence of the system. Theoretically, though, a good GM/organization won't make the mistake of paying the inflated price (unless the inflated price is for an absolute star).

In this era of salary cap and luxury tax rules, you have to constantly reload your complementary players. Those are the guys that get overpriced in restricted free agency/free agency. They're also (theoretically) the easiest to replace.

The new system essentially lends itself to one of two models for success:
1. Sign 2-3 superstars and add cheap role players around them (the Heat model)
2. Stink for 3-5 years and acquire enough talent through the lottery (the Thunder model)

Overspending for mid-level talent can get you consistently in the playoffs, but not over the top. And getting consistently in the playoffs can actually be a negative (in terms of competing for championships) because it robs you of high draft picks.

Finding good rookies are the most cost-effective way to improve your team, because they're the only ones on "reasonable" contracts. The challenge is finding the right rookies.

This is excellent explanation and analysis.

It is also a reminder that there are a collection of owners who aren't necessarily interested in winning a championship. Although none will publicly say so, they give their team-builders enough resources to field a team that's good enough to make the team turn a tidy profit. Generally, that means the team should be competitive enough to lure enough fans and sell enough merchandise...sometimes that means making the playoffs, sometimes that means getting just close enough. But, you really do have to get lucky. The Spurs won the lottery twice and landed the Admiral and Tim Duncan. What if they had picked second both of those years (Armon Gilliam and Keith Van Horn) or they had won the lottery in two different years and selected Michael Olowokandi and Pervis Ellison? What is the Thunder had won the lottery and picked Greg Oden? You have to have a great front office and get lucky. You could also add a 3rd model to CDu's formula, almost a hybrid where the Heat kind of had to bottom out (07-08) and then have a couple of average years to create the cap room to sign Lebron and Bosh.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Not surprising given Brand's contract, but he'll be able to help out a contender:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/06/philadelphia-76ers-amnesty-clause-elton-brand/?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

[JasonEvans]

Not surprising given Brand's contract, but he'll be able to help out a contender:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/06/philadelphia-76ers-amnesty-clause-elton-brand/?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

You beat me to it, my airborn friend. I was just about to post this.

I expect Elton to be claimed off waivers, which means some team will have to pick up part of that $18 mil price tag. It will be interesting to see how much various teams bid for him. I see Elton as a strong front-court bench player for a contender at this point in his career.

-Jason "rumor is the Celtics are going to sign Jeff Green for $40 mil over 4 years... for a guy who sat out all of last season with a heart problem... WOW" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

You beat me to it, my airborn friend. I was just about to post this.

I expect Elton to be claimed off waivers, which means some team will have to pick up part of that $18 mil price tag. It will be interesting to see how much various teams bid for him. I see Elton as a strong front-court bench player for a contender at this point in his career.

-Jason "rumor is the Celtics are going to sign Jeff Green for $40 mil over 4 years... for a guy who sat out all of last season with a heart problem... WOW" Evans

I have no idea about the legal jargon (I'm no lawyer), but I believe teams under the cap get first dibs on amnestied players. Considering the few teams who are under the cap, Elton doesn't have a lot of choices for contenders (maybe the Thunder?). Like you said, I hope he goes to a team where he can be an amazing complementary player rather than a second- or even third-option. I really like the Celtics, Thunder, or Orlando.

[hq2]

-Jason "rumor is the Celtics are going to sign Jeff Green for $40 mil over 4 years... for a guy who sat out all of last season with a heart problem... WOW" Evans

C's need him at three. He's supposedly Pierce's replacement. My bet is he'll be starting by 2014. He has a lot of skills, but they're not
quite the same as Pierce's; great full court player, good post up player, not that good at facing up like Pierce. Doc needs some time to
work on running plays to feature his skill set. When he does, you'll start seeing his value, especially in the playoffs when he will have
to defend Lebron, which Pierce can clearly no longer do.

[BD80]

You beat me to it, my airborn friend. I was just about to post this.

I expect Elton to be claimed off waivers, which means some team will have to pick up part of that $18 mil price tag. It will be interesting to see how much various teams bid for him. I see Elton as a strong front-court bench player for a contender at this point in his career.

-Jason "rumor is the Celtics are going to sign Jeff Green for $40 mil over 4 years... for a guy who sat out all of last season with a heart problem... WOW" Evans

The teams under the cap submit closed bids and the highest bid wins?

[dcdevil2009]

I must admit - I really love free agency. Teams make or break themselves in the span of a few weeks every July. However, I must also admit that I'm not a fan of the restricted free agency system, and not because it's detrimental to the players' wishes, but rather detrimental to the salary cap.

With restricted free agency, I feel like teams are willing to offer more money (see Gordon, Eric & Lin, Jeremy & my personal favorite - Fields, Landry) than unrestricted free agency. I think this is a competitive analysis issue: if team [x] wants player [z] who is a restricted free agent, they need to offer that player enough money for player [z] to want to sign. That monetary value needs to be high enough that player [z] wants to leave his current team [y]. But team [x] will most likely inflate the price of their offering so that if team [y] really wants to keep player [z], there is a high chance that team [y] retains player [z]. And if team [y] doesn't sign player [z], then team [x]'s cap gets killed. In essence, one team will get this player whose contract is inflated, which leads us back to the essential issues of this year's lock-out. I think the one major flaw in this is what if team [y] doesn't resign player [z] - then team [x] gets screwed, but they did that upon themselves.

I may be way off base, but I feel like restricted free agency leads to more inflated salaries than unrestricted free agency. I feel that this "I know Houston wants to retain player [z], so I'll offer that player something outrageous to kill Houston's cap" mentality leads to a lot of bad decisions.

Thoughts?

It seems like the Rockets figured out another potentially major flaw with the new CBA in how it treats restricted free agents. With teams re-signing their own restricted free agents, they have to use the actual annual salaries to computer their cap space and luxury tax amounts, but when teams sign restricted free agents, they can use the average annual salary for each year of the contract. What happens is that teams under the cap are able to offer seemingly inflated, backloaded deals that make it prohibitively expensive for borderline luxury tax teams to re-sign their restricted free agents. By backloading the deals they offered to Omer Asik (Bulls RFA) and Jeremy Lin (Knicks RFA), they've made it almost prohibitively expensive for the Bulls and Knicks to match without taking massive luxury tax and salary cap hits.

While this strategy might not seem like the most competitively balanced approach to the restricted free agent system, it does help drive down the restricted free agent offer sheets. I'm going to be interested to see whether the NBA/NBPA does something to close this loophole or just goes with it and allows even more player movement.

Edit: Larry Coon has done a great job over the years with his Salary Cap FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm), which goes into much more detail about how most of the salary cap stuff works.

[FerryFor50]

Nick Young is heading to the Sixers:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/06/nick-young-signs-philadelphia-76ers/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

Guess this means no Lou Williams return?

[-bdbd]

Last night on Sports Center the ESPN resident NBA deals expert was saying that there was "no doubt" but that the Knicks would have to match the Houston offer and sign Lin. He said that NY obviously brought Kidd in "to mentor the kid" for 2-3 years, though it wasn't clear which would start at point.

One other speculation they had was that, perhaps, Nash was going to entice his "good buddy" Grant Hill to follow him to the purple and gold in LA. I'd really love to see that - for Grant to finally get the chance to taste some real championship-level success in the twilight of his NBA career. He's certainly earned it!

[JasonEvans]

Guess this means no Lou Williams return?

That's what Lou says (https://twitter.com/TeamLou23/status/221275412490231808)--


@TeamLou23: Philly, I appreciate you all. Unfortunately I will not be coming back, as an organization they decided to move in a different direction

-Jason "Sweet Lou can score a lot, but takes a ton of shots and is not exactly a good defender... might be a better player if he had played even a little bit in college" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

That's what Lou says (https://twitter.com/TeamLou23/status/221275412490231808)--



-Jason "Sweet Lou can score a lot, but takes a ton of shots and is not exactly a good defender... might be a better player if he had played even a little bit in college" Evans

But Sweet Lou was the ideal 6th man, very much in the mold of Jason Terry. He was never asked to play much D, just score a ton of points. I don't like players who are too offensive-minded, but Lou was a huge asset to the Sixers. I don't think that Nick Young can replicate Lou's success as well. We shall see.

[CDu]

It is also a reminder that there are a collection of owners who aren't necessarily interested in winning a championship. Although none will publicly say so, they give their team-builders enough resources to field a team that's good enough to make the team turn a tidy profit. Generally, that means the team should be competitive enough to lure enough fans and sell enough merchandise...sometimes that means making the playoffs, sometimes that means getting just close enough.

This is an excellent description of the Bulls post-Jordan. They've been one of the most profitable teams in the league for the past decade, in large part to being financially "responsible" and avoiding the luxury tax. Winning the lottery and getting Derrick Rose certainly helped (actually pushed them into real competitiveness), but their formula has very much been profit first, win second.


Not surprising given Brand's contract, but he'll be able to help out a contender:

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/06/philadelphia-76ers-amnesty-clause-elton-brand/?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

As a Bulls fan, I'd love to see them sign Brand for cheap and then amnesty Boozer. You'd get similar production at a fraction of the cost.

[JasonEvans]

But Sweet Lou was the ideal 6th man, very much in the mold of Jason Terry. He was never asked to play much D, just score a ton of points. I don't like players who are too offensive-minded, but Lou was a huge asset to the Sixers. I don't think that Nick Young can replicate Lou's success as well. We shall see.

But the Sixers got Nick Young for 1 year, $6 mil. Lou is going to be looking for 3 or 4 years at closer to $8 or even $10 mil, I suspect. Young may be not quite as good a scorer as Lou, but he is not that far off (16 ppg last year for the Wiz). He will be vastly better at some other aspects of the game, I suspect.

By the way, I think someone asked earlier-- regarding Brand, any team that has cap space can put in a "bid" to pay a portion of his $18 mil salary when he hits the waiver wire. Highest bidder gets him. If no one claims him (someone will) then he becomes a free agent and can sign with anyone he wants and that signing would be extra money he would be paid above and beyond the $18 mil.

-Jason "I wonder if Shane will put a bug in Miami's ear about his old teammate?" Evans

[MChambers]

But the Sixers got Nick Young for 1 year, $6 mil. Lou is going to be looking for 3 or 4 years at closer to $8 or even $10 mil, I suspect. Young may be not quite as good a scorer as Lou, but he is not that far off (16 ppg last year for the Wiz). He will be vastly better at some other aspects of the game, I suspect.

I'm not much of an NBA fan, living in Washington, DC, where we don't have an NBA-level team, but from reading the local sports pages I have the sense that scoring is the only thing Nick Young can do. The consensus around here is that Young (along with McGee and Blatche) was never going to be a winner in the NBA.

[BD80]

I'm not much of an NBA fan, living in Washington, DC, where we don't have an NBA-level team, but from reading the local sports pages I have the sense that scoring is the only thing Nick Young can do. The consensus around here is that Young (along with McGee and Blatche) was never going to be a winner in the NBA.

Doug Collins agreed to coach him

[MChambers]

Doug Collins agreed to coach him

It's not like the Wizards didn't try. He's been in the NBA five years.

[UrinalCake]

As a Bulls fan, I'd love to see them sign Brand for cheap and then amnesty Boozer. You'd get similar production at a fraction of the cost.

Then maybe the Sixers could sign Boozer. That would be awesome. They'd effectively be paying each others' players, with none of it going against the cap. Gotta love the NBA.

[mkirsh]

I'm not much of an NBA fan, living in Washington, DC, where we don't have an NBA-level team, but from reading the local sports pages I have the sense that scoring is the only thing Nick Young can do. The consensus around here is that Young (along with McGee and Blatche) was never going to be a winner in the NBA.

Correction - shooting was the only think Nick Young did in DC. In his last season in DC, he put up 14.6 shots in 32 minutes per game, only got to the line for 3.6 attempts per game, pulled down 2.7 boards, dished out 1.2 assists, turned it over 1.7 times, and scored about 1.2 points per shot. Compared to Williams, they are actually pretty similar - Young shoots it a little better (44% to 40% last year), but Williams got to the line more (both netted about 1.2 points per shot), but Williams dished out 3.5 assists per game (and their other stats are almost identical). Young is probably more of a spot up shooter, so doesn't need the ball in his hands as much, but also doesn't really break down defenses or create much offense for anyone else. Don't have good defensive stats, but fair to say that it isn't a strength for either of them.


Doug Collins agreed to coach him

This is an area that you might give a pass to Young. He was definitely part of the DC "knucklehead" group (along with Javale and Blatche), but in his (and their) defense, the Wiz have NEVER been good at developing talent (when was their last draft pick to really work out? Answer: Rip Hamilton in 1999, with partial credit for second rounders Steve Blake and Andray Blatche; John Wall gets an incomplete), as Flip was primarily a veterans coach. So maybe with some good coaching there might be hope for Nick Young to round out the rest of his game.

[CDu]

Then maybe the Sixers could sign Boozer. That would be awesome. They'd effectively be paying each others' players, with none of it going against the cap. Gotta love the NBA.

That would be quite entertaining. And MUCH better for both teams.

[BD80]

Is there a reference that keeps track of where teams stand via the salary cap?

[CDu]

Is there a reference that keeps track of where teams stand via the salary cap?

shamsports keeps track of all of the salaries for every team. The cap changes from year to year, but you can see what each team is on the books for. I am sure there are other sites, but that one is pretty good.

[Double DD]

But the Sixers got Nick Young for 1 year, $6 mil. Lou is going to be looking for 3 or 4 years at closer to $8 or even $10 mil, I suspect. Young may be not quite as good a scorer as Lou, but he is not that far off (16 ppg last year for the Wiz). He will be vastly better at some other aspects of the game, I suspect.

By the way, I think someone asked earlier-- regarding Brand, any team that has cap space can put in a "bid" to pay a portion of his $18 mil salary when he hits the waiver wire. Highest bidder gets him. If no one claims him (someone will) then he becomes a free agent and can sign with anyone he wants and that signing would be extra money he would be paid above and beyond the $18 mil.

-Jason "I wonder if Shane will put a bug in Miami's ear about his old teammate?" Evans

The money saved seems to me to be the only benefit. Young doesn't have a good rep as a defender and he's a black hole on offence. Only 2 guards over the last 2 years who played at least 20 min/g had a lower assist rate. (Interestingly, one of those two was Jodie Meeks, who the Sixers decided not to qualify)

[Newton_14]

Ray Allen to the Heat. He is taking a $3mil per for 3 yrs from the Heat, turning down a $6mil per for 2 yrs offer from the Celtics. Ray is nearing the end of a great career, but he still has enough left in the tank to help the Heat. He is going to rain three's in that offense, and will get a ton of good looks with Wade and Lebron penetrating and kicking. Apparently he was truly torn, but championships are more important to some guys than others, and he is definitely going to have a great shot at winning 1 or 2 more with this move.

Ray to Miami (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/8137389/agent-ray-allen-leaves-boston-celtics-champion-miami-heat)

[hq2]

Ray Allen to the Heat. He is taking a $3mil per for 3 yrs from the Heat, turning down a $6mil per for 2 yrs offer from the Celtics. Ray is nearing the end of a great career, but he still has enough left in the tank to help the Heat. He is going to rain three's in that offense, and will get a ton of good looks with Wade and Lebron penetrating and kicking. Apparently he was truly torn, but championships are more important to some guys than others, and he is definitely going to have a great shot at winning 1 or 2 more with this move.

Ray to Miami (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/8137389/agent-ray-allen-leaves-boston-celtics-champion-miami-heat)

C's will be O.K. without him. Don't know if the C's signing Jason Terry was the decisive element; maybe Ray would have stayed if they hadn't done that,
but Danny and Doc didn't know for sure, so they couldn't let Terry get away when they didn't know Ray's plans. Anyway, Terry is a better defensive
player and ball handler (Ray was becoming a defensive liability). I think most people up here kind of expected Ray to leave. Now, the Celts have some 6 million more
$$$ to spend on Jeff Green, a backup center, and some other players. They'll be fine.

[CDu]

Ray Allen to the Heat. He is taking a $3mil per for 3 yrs from the Heat, turning down a $6mil per for 2 yrs offer from the Celtics. Ray is nearing the end of a great career, but he still has enough left in the tank to help the Heat. He is going to rain three's in that offense, and will get a ton of good looks with Wade and Lebron penetrating and kicking. Apparently he was truly torn, but championships are more important to some guys than others, and he is definitely going to have a great shot at winning 1 or 2 more with this move.

Ray to Miami (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/8137389/agent-ray-allen-leaves-boston-celtics-champion-miami-heat)

Apparently he didn't care for Rondo. At all.

But this is pretty clearly a ring-chasing move. He's going to be a backup SG on a championship favorite while hanging out in South Beach for the next three years. Not a bad way to go out I guess. Annoying (unless you're a Miami fan), but hard to argue with it.

[slower]

But this is pretty clearly a ring-chasing move


Sure. Which makes him no different than most of the players in the NBA.

[moonpie23]

funny how a hated ray ray is now, "our ray ray"......i'll be cheering those 3 ptrs now instead of cursing them...

oh, and BTW, ray ray.....you'd better keep making them......

lol

[JasonEvans]

Now, the Celts have some 6 million more $$$ to spend on Jeff Green, a backup center, and some other players. They'll be fine.

I think the Celtics can (and will) go higher than $6 mil per to re-sign Jeff Green as I think he qualifies as their free agent (despite not playing last year). I could be wrong about that but, regardless, I would be surprised if they could get him for the discount price for $6 mil per year. Green feels to me like a guy who should command a few mill more than that.

-Jason "Green is a reliable double-digit scorer and good all-around player... he's worth a lot more than, for example, Nick Young" Evans

[hq2]

I think the Celtics can (and will) go higher than $6 mil per to re-sign Jeff Green as I think he qualifies as their free agent (despite not playing last year). I could be wrong about that but, regardless, I would be surprised if they could get him for the discount price for $6 mil per year. Green feels to me like a guy who should command a few mill more than that.

-Jason "Green is a reliable double-digit scorer and good all-around player... he's worth a lot more than, for example, Nick Young" Evans

Green will get about $10 million a year for four years. The $6 million is just more money from Ray the Cs' have to spend on other free agents, although
none of the other contracts they can offer now are greater than $2 million. Hopefully, they can pick up a backup center and maybe another guard
too.

[Newton_14]

Green will get about $10 million a year for four years. The $6 million is just more money from Ray the Cs' have to spend on other free agents, although
none of the other contracts they can offer now are greater than $2 million. Hopefully, they can pick up a backup center and maybe another guard
too.

I thought they did that in the draft when they took Fab Melo?

I don't think losing Ray hurts the Celtics all that much, but it's kind of ironic, that Ray helps the Heat quite a bit more than he would have helped the Celtics at this point in his career. The Celtics need younger legs and scoring punch, (resigning Bass was more important than resigning Allen). They drafted well, so that helps. They still have the problem of stars aging past their prime in KG, and Pierce, and need a couple more pieces to be championship quality, but they will still contend. (But will fall short again).

With the league rules these days, you are almost forced to blow up your team and rebuild over and over again, so I have to wonder if the Celtics are holding on to KG and Pierce for too long. Can't see them winning another title with those two as the key components. (due 100% to age and corroding skills).

[hq2]

I thought they did that in the draft when they took Fab Melo?

I don't think losing Ray hurts the Celtics all that much, but it's kind of ironic, that Ray helps the Heat quite a bit more than he would have helped the Celtics at this point in his career. The Celtics need younger legs and scoring punch, (resigning Bass was more important than resigning Allen). They drafted well, so that helps. They still have the problem of stars aging past their prime in KG, and Pierce, and need a couple more pieces to be championship quality, but they will still contend. (But will fall short again).

With the league rules these days, you are almost forced to blow up your team and rebuild over and over again, so I have to wonder if the Celtics are holding on to KG and Pierce for too long. Can't see them winning another title with those two as the key components. (due 100% to age and corroding skills).

Fab will help eventually, but they need another backup center now for experience and depth. KG and Pierce are getting old, but the feeling here
is that adding Green, Terry, and maybe Sullinger could be enough to compensate, at least for one more year. The Cs have young legs now
at three out of five starting spots and most bench positions, and KG can still run with most centers, so they should be able to contend next year. The key is getting more production and minutes from Jeff Green at 3. If that works out, they can cut Pierce down to maybe less than 30 minutes and maybe get some quality minutes out of him. With Green to guard Lebron, Bradley on D-wade, and KG on Bosh, the Cs do have a chance.

[tommy]

Fab will help eventually, but they need another backup center now for experience and depth. KG and Pierce are getting old, but the feeling here
is that adding Green, Terry, and maybe Sullinger could be enough to compensate, at least for one more year. The Cs have young legs now
at three out of five starting spots and most bench positions, and KG can still run with most centers, so they should be able to contend next year. The key is getting more production and minutes from Jeff Green at 3. If that works out, they can cut Pierce down to maybe less than 30 minutes and maybe get some quality minutes out of him. With Green to guard Lebron, Bradley on D-wade, and KG on Bosh, the Cs do have a chance.

Jeff Green's just going to guard LeBron? Just like that, and that issue is resolved?

[CDu]

Jeff Green's just going to guard LeBron? Just like that, and that issue is resolved?

He'll do an okay job. More accurately, he'll be there as an option guard James when Pierce is struggling or in foul trouble.

The Heat would still be the favorites, but with Sullinger, Melo, Terry, Green, and Bradley added to the mix, the Celtics will stand a fighting chance for another year or two (until Pierce and Garnett are done).

[MaxAMillion]

Jeff Green's just going to guard LeBron? Just like that, and that issue is resolved?

Jeff Green is far from a great defensive player. He won't be stopping Lebron. I really don't get the Jeff Green love at all. He is an inefficient offensive player who really doesn't have a position. What exactly does he do well? He is a decent bench player. I would pay much for that, but I am sure crazy DA will overpay.

[hq2]

Jeff Green is far from a great defensive player. He won't be stopping Lebron. I really don't get the Jeff Green love at all. He is an inefficient offensive player who really doesn't have a position. What exactly does he do well? He is a decent bench player. I would pay much for that, but I am sure crazy DA will overpay.

He's actually a tall 3. He was playing out of position at 4 at OKC, and Boston didn't quite figure out how to use his abilities a couple of years ago.
He is a good post up player on (usually) smaller 3s, and a decent open jump shooter. Once Doc has a chance to design plays for him and get them in the offense, I think he'll be effective, especially in the full court with Rondo. As far as stopping Lebron is concerned, he doesn't have to (right now, no one is doing that). Bradley and KG can handle Wade and Bosh; all Green has to do is keep Lebron from going for 45, like he did against Pierce up in Boston, and the Cs can still win.

[JasonEvans]

Green has officially signed (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/sports/pro/basketball&sa=NBA&eid=8138801l) with the Celtics. No word yet on how long or how much.

-Jason "rumors are that the deal is 4-years, $40 mil..." Evans

[Starter]

I disagree. Calderon is a better passer and shooter. But agree that Calderon's not great on defense... however, Toronto's defensive woes go beyond the PG position.

Calderon averaged 9 assists per game passing to basically no one worth mentioning outside of Demarr Derozen (since Bargnani was injured). He also rarely turns it over (2 per game compared to 2.8 for Lowry). Calderon also shoots a higher % from the field.

Lowry's career PER: 15.9
Calderon''s career PER 17.4

Personally, I think a lot of people just go check out a PER and use that as their way to rank players without considering anything else. Not saying you're doing that, just a boiler-plate observation that I see it a lot -- but comparing PER for their whole career doesn't really tell the whole story either. Lowry blossomed recently and only started the majority of his games for the past two years, and he had a higher PER than Calderon each of those. Last year, he ranked 12th among point guards, while Calderon ranked 25th. (Jerryd Bayless, for the record, ranked 17th.) I would actually suggest -- while being too lazy to do the actual research required to prove this -- that Lowry would have easily been in the top 10, perhaps top 5, in PER had he not had his bizarre infection that wrecked the latter half of his season. Calderon's definitely a solid distributor and a decent shooter, I've always liked him, but Lowry has the talent to be elite. I maintain it's a major upgrade.

Not to mention, Lowry's a good defender while Calderon is an absolute sieve. Seriously, he's terrible. I recall an article before last season when John Hollinger, Mr. PER himself, compared Calderon to "a traffic cone." I've obviously never met you, FerryFor50, but I would imagine you're a better defensive point guard than Calderon, if by nothing else than default.


Kidd is only getting $3 Mil/yr. The word "only" sure seems out of place in that sentence.

But a $3 mil contract in today's NBA is minimum wage for a veteran like Kidd.

Agreed that the money isn't exactly outrageous, though I'd wonder whether there'd be somebody out there who scores over 6 points per game who'd be better to use their mid-level exception on. That said -- and I think this says more about the Knicks than Kidd -- they have made far worse moves over the years. He can probably add something to the equation, especially if Lin just isn't what they think he'll be, and the respect he likely garners from Carmelo and company would hopefully help him settle down a volatile team. It just blows my mind, the idea of signing a guy who turns 40 next season to a three-year contract. I mean, last year's savior until Lin came out of nowhere and shocked everyone, including the Knicks, was a clearly shot Baron Davis, and that gambit ended with a catastrophic injury.

[Starter]

For what it's worth -- probably not much -- I think $40 million is kind of nuts for Jeff Green. I feel like a 6-foot-9 guy who doesn't rebound or block shots, is an average shooter at best and just missed an entire season is a shaky proposition at best. I also don't feel like his defense was anywhere close to what I'm hearing here.

...That said, he has always had, and still has, lots of potential based on his athletic gifts. If he puts it together, he's an asset as a starting three. I just think the money is a little wild on paper. But they have him, and he comes off the cap when Garnett does. That works out well.

With KG somewhat rejuvenated this past season and re-signed, Bradley hopefully back healthy, likewise for Green, Rondo still there, Terry a solid addition, and some hopefully solid young frontcourt pieces, this seems like a pretty solid Eastern Conference team if Garnett and Pierce don't fall off a cliff. That said, I guess you never know since they were a win away from the Finals this year, but I don't see them as a legit championship contender, not considering they have to go through the Heat.

[hq2]

For what it's worth -- probably not much -- I think $40 million is kind of nuts for Jeff Green. I feel like a 6-foot-9 guy who doesn't rebound or block shots, is an average shooter at best and just missed an entire season is a shaky proposition at best. I also don't feel like his defense was anywhere close to what I'm hearing here.

...That said, he has always had, and still has, lots of potential based on his athletic gifts. If he puts it together, he's an asset as a starting three. I just think the money is a little wild on paper. But they have him, and he comes off the cap when Garnett does. That works out well.

With KG somewhat rejuvenated this past season and re-signed, Bradley hopefully back healthy, likewise for Green, Rondo still there, Terry a solid addition, and some hopefully solid young frontcourt pieces, this seems like a pretty solid Eastern Conference team if Garnett and Pierce don't fall off a cliff. That said, I guess you never know since they were a win away from the Finals this year, but I don't see them as a legit championship contender, not considering they have to go through the Heat.

It's all relative to what other guys are getting paid, and what's out there (not a lot). I mean Omer(sp?) Asik got $25 million. Give Green a chance. He can do a lot of things; they just need to work on using his skills.

As far as beating the Heat is concerned, I agree it would be tough. But the C's give the Heat serious matchup problems, and the Heat know it.
They have no one who can guard Rondo, Bradley can contain Wade and KG can handle Bosh. In addition, the fact that they don't need to double
team Wade means they can stay at home on Miami's other three point shooter (Ray, Battier, Chalmers, Miller (maybe)). The problem is that Miami's D is just as good on the other end, and unless Rondo gets them the ball the C's don't score well, and the C's still can't stop Lebron. In the end, the Heat would probably still win, but you can't say it for sure.

[moonpie23]

with some of the ridiculous contract money being spread around, it's no wonder the league has financial problems....I guess they figure star power beats wins......

[CDu]

The Bulls have apparently agreed to terms with Kirk Hinrich (former Bulls, Wiz, and Hawks PG) on a 2 year, $6 million (which appears to be the taxpayers' MLE).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-hinrich-verbally-commits-to-bulls-20120708,0,213596.story

Hinrich was terrible last year, but I think it's a good move. He can be an adequate starter at PG until Rose returns, then move to backup PG/SG thereafter. He'll fit right in to the defense-first mentality, and can play alongside Rose and take pressure off of him as a playmaker. And he's a team-first guy who won't rock the boat when Rose returns.

This means that the Bulls plan to be paying the luxury tax, so either Korver or Asik (or both) will be retained (I can't imagine that Brewer or Watson will be). I really hope it's not Asik that is retained; that contract is just hideous for a backup C.

[dcdevil2009]

This means that the Bulls plan to be paying the luxury tax, so either Korver or Asik (or both) will be retained (I can't imagine that Brewer or Watson will be). I really hope it's not Asik that is retained; that contract is just hideous for a backup C.

Would it change your mind about Asik if I told you he's only getting $5M in each of the first two years and could be traded away in year 3 as "Omer Asik's Expiring Contract?" However, if they don't trade him in year 3, as repeat luxury tax offenders, that contract could cost the Bulls something like $30M-$40M in salary and luxury tax for just that year.

[Starter]

I'm far from an expert in the new CBA, but I have a feeling these massive expiring contracts that have been so valuable in the past are going to become a lot harder to trade to teams that don't have Jimmy Dolan willing to spend all his daddy's money on luxury tax.

[Starter]

It's all relative to what other guys are getting paid, and what's out there (not a lot). I mean Omer(sp?) Asik got $25 million. Give Green a chance. He can do a lot of things; they just need to work on using his skills.



I hear you, the lockout accomplished nothing, I just feel like Green isn't a $10 million player by any measure.

[CDu]

Would it change your mind about Asik if I told you he's only getting $5M in each of the first two years and could be traded away in year 3 as "Omer Asik's Expiring Contract?" However, if they don't trade him in year 3, as repeat luxury tax offenders, that contract could cost the Bulls something like $30M-$40M in salary and luxury tax for just that year.

The problem is that "Omer's expiring contract" means we'll have to take back someone else's overpaid players (on longer-term deals) in return. It isn't likely to net us a star. And as you said, if they can't find a good trade, we'll be paying a ton in luxury tax dollars for it (which is a no-no from the Bulls' front office).

If I could be guaranteed that we could make a good trade after two years, I'd be all for it. I just think the likelihood of that is low.

[Starter]

The problem is that "Omer's expiring contract" means we'll have to take back someone else's overpaid players (on longer-term deals) in return. It isn't likely to net us a star. And as you said, if they can't find a good trade, we'll be paying a ton in luxury tax dollars for it (which is a no-no from the Bulls' front office).

If I could be guaranteed that we could make a good trade after two years, I'd be all for it. I just think the likelihood of that is low.

Let's hope with his financial windfall, Asik spends a million on some revolutionary new hands transplant or something.

Joking aside, I actually think he could fit nicely as a backup on a good team. But man, that poison pill is just too hard to swallow in the third year of this deal. By 2014, you'd think they'd be ready to cut ties with Boozer and attempt to reload through free agency. Asik would be a big, free-throw bricking roadblock to financial solvency. Let him fly.

[CDu]

I actually think [Asik] could fit nicely as a backup on a good team.

Well, yeah. I mean, he has fit in nicely as a backup center on a good team the past two years. I would see no reason that couldn't continue.

It is just that last year that is killer.

[Starter]

Well, yeah. I mean, he has fit in nicely as a backup center on a good team the past two years. I would see no reason that couldn't continue.

It is just that last year that is killer.

Haha, true. I just meant, I can see why he'd be in demand by other would-be good teams, though like you said, the price is obviously an eye-opener.

[JasonEvans]

Orlando is apparently going to go the "we will suck and suck hard so we get good draft picks" route as they attempt to rebuild. There is little question they are about to deal Dwight Howard and now they have traded Ryan Anderson to New Orleans in a sign and trade deal.

Anderson was a restricted free agent and is signing a 4 year contract for something like $36 mil ($9 mil per season). Anderson is a lethal 3 point shooter and should be a decent addition to the Hornets (though I don't think much of other parts of his game).

Oh, and what will the Magic be getting back from the trade? Gustavo Ayon -- the guy who averaged a sterling 5.9 ppg and 3.9 rpg for the lowly Hornets last season. Ayon was just a rookie last year... but he is 27 years old so it is not like he is some kid dripping with potential.

--Jason "The Magic may be keeping the Wiz and Bobcats company at the bottom of the East next season -- especially if they deal Dwight for a bunch of draft picks" Evans

[BD80]

Orlando is apparently going to go the "we will suck and suck hard so we get good draft picks" route as they attempt to rebuild. There is little question they are about to deal Dwight Howard and now they have traded Ryan Anderson to New Orleans in a sign and trade deal.

Anderson was a restricted free agent and is signing a 4 year contract for something like $36 mil ($9 mil per season). Anderson is a lethal 3 point shooter and should be a decent addition to the Hornets (though I don't think much of other parts of his game).

Oh, and what will the Magic be getting back from the trade? Gustavo Ayon -- the guy who averaged a sterling 5.9 ppg and 3.9 rpg for the lowly Hornets last season. Ayon was just a rookie last year... but he is 27 years old so it is not like he is some kid dripping with potential.

--Jason "The Magic may be keeping the Wiz and Bobcats company at the bottom of the East next season -- especially if they deal Dwight for a bunch of draft picks" Evans

My hope is that this ignites a fever amongst NBA GMs for "stretch 4s" - a PF who's outside shooting stretches the floor. This would create a demand for the Piston's Charlie Viianueva. If the Pistons can dump him, their roster could look promising, and Kyle would have a pretty good shot at significant minutes.

Farfetched? Sure, but the way some of these GMs act, one never knows.

[hq2]

This would create a demand for the Piston's Charlie Viianueva.

I don't think anything could create a demand for Charlie Villanueva! :cool:

[CDu]

My hope is that this ignites a fever amongst NBA GMs for "stretch 4s" - a PF who's outside shooting stretches the floor. This would create a demand for the Piston's Charlie Viianueva. If the Pistons can dump him, their roster could look promising, and Kyle would have a pretty good shot at significant minutes.

Farfetched? Sure, but the way some of these GMs act, one never knows.

Can't they just amnesty Villanueva?

[BD80]

Can't they just amnesty Villanueva?

Yeah, but there really isn't much to do with the cap room they'd "save' and they are holding on to him as an asset next year when he'll be an expiring contract. If they amnesty him, they will be paying him for two years to play somewhere else - say Miami - for veteran's minimum. Looks like next year's free agent market will have better value.

Pistons fans - the 25 or so that will show up to the games - will be brutal if Villanueva goes into games just to jack up threes and gets abusued in the paint on D. Detroit fans hate overpaid "stars" who don't appear to care.

[flyingdutchdevil]

--Jason "The Magic may be keeping the Wiz and Bobcats company at the bottom of the East next season -- especially if they deal Dwight for a bunch of draft picks" Evans

Not just draft picks, but drafting-in-the-high-20s draft picks. The Magic are so incredibly screwed. If Howard leaves, the roster looks like this:

Earl Clark, Glen Davis, Chris Duhon, Jameer Nelson, Daniel Orton, JJ Redick, Quentin Richardson, Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Von Wafer.

That is essentially a combination of ball hogs, terrible draft picks, overpaid players, complementary players, and one chain smoker (Hedo). Ouch...

"Rebuilding" is going to be Orlando's favorite word for a while...

[UrinalCake]

That is essentially a combination of ball hogs, terrible draft picks, overpaid players, complementary players, and one chain smoker (Hedo). Ouch...

To be fair, you did leave out "greatest shooter in NCAA history" ;)

[flyingdutchdevil]

To be fair, you did leave out "greatest shooter in NCAA history" ;)

True. And one of my favorite Duke players (Duhon).

The issue with Redick is he is a good defender and a great shooter who needs space to function. Without Howard and without a legitimate big man, Redick could be held ineffective. If Howard leaves (not if, but when), I hope they trade Redick as well.

[JasonEvans]

The Nets are determined to deal for Dwight Howard... even if it means killing the Cavs to do it!

Chad Ford has been tweeting about a supposed deal that may be about to go down. As best I can figure, here is how it goes.

Nets would get Dwight Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon & Earl Clark.
Magic would get Brook Lopez, Luke Walton, Damian James, Shelden Williams, Armon Johnson and 3 first round picks (2 from Nets, 1 from Clippers).
The Cavs get Kris Humprhries, Quentin Richardson, Sundiata Gaines, a 1st round pick from the Nets & cash.
The Clippers would receive MarShon Brooks.

Can anyone explain to me why the Cavs would want Quentin Richardson or Sundiata Gaines in the first place? A couple of NBA journeymen who basically shuffle from team to team and play for the NBA minimum as mid-deep bench players. Of course, as far as I can tell the only thing the Cavs are giving up is Luke Walton. I guess they are just a partner in all this so they can absorb some of the salary cap flotsam and jetsam to make it all work. I really want to know what restricted free agent Kris Humphries is going to sign for because the Cavs could get fleeced badly if they are forced to pay him too much (which may be why cash is headed their way to defray the cost of carrying that egomaniac on the roster).

Brook Lopez is a nice center, not a stud but a good player -- especially on offense -- so I guess this is the best the Magic could do. They will have a lot of draft picks, but I expect those picks to largely be late first rounders (the Clips pick they get is lottery protected), which makes them of somewhat dubious value.

Duhon gets to be Deron Williams' backup. Shelden goes to his 7th team in the past 5 seasons. He's the definition of a journeyman now. Like New Jersey, he may find minutes available to him in Orlando... mostly because their roster will be so bereft of front-line NBA talent. He will be reunited with his old Duke running mate in JJ. That's kinda nice.

Porkhorov (sp?) is going to have to pay a fortune in luxury tax before this is all done... like he cares?!!?

-Jason "the Nets will have their Big 3 to contend with Miami -- the new Brooklyn arena will be packed!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Bill Simmons just tweeted -- "Refuse to believe 4-team Howard trade rumor since it involves the words "Brook Lopez" and "max deal." No team could possibly be that dumb."

Ha!

-Jason "Orlando could!" Evans

[FerryFor50]

The Nets are determined to deal for Dwight Howard... even if it means killing the Cavs to do it!

Chad Ford has been tweeting about a supposed deal that may be about to go down. As best I can figure, here is how it goes.

Nets would get Dwight Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon & Earl Clark.
Magic would get Brook Lopez, Luke Walton, Damian James, Shelden Williams, Armon Johnson and 3 first round picks (2 from Nets, 1 from Clippers).
The Cavs get Kris Humprhries, Quentin Richardson, Sundiata Gaines, a 1st round pick from the Nets & cash.
The Clippers would receive MarShon Brooks.

Can anyone explain to me why the Cavs would want Quentin Richardson or Sundiata Gaines in the first place? A couple of NBA journeymen who basically shuffle from team to team and play for the NBA minimum as mid-deep bench players. Of course, as far as I can tell the only thing the Cavs are giving up is Luke Walton. I guess they are just a partner in all this so they can absorb some of the salary cap flotsam and jetsam to make it all work. I really want to know what restricted free agent Kris Humphries is going to sign for because the Cavs could get fleeced badly if they are forced to pay him too much (which may be why cash is headed their way to defray the cost of carrying that egomaniac on the roster).

Brook Lopez is a nice center, not a stud but a good player -- especially on offense -- so I guess this is the best the Magic could do. They will have a lot of draft picks, but I expect those picks to largely be late first rounders (the Clips pick they get is lottery protected), which makes them of somewhat dubious value.

Duhon gets to be Deron Williams' backup. Shelden goes to his 7th team in the past 5 seasons. He's the definition of a journeyman now. Like New Jersey, he may find minutes available to him in Orlando... mostly because their roster will be so bereft of front-line NBA talent. He will be reunited with his old Duke running mate in JJ. That's kinda nice.

Porkhorov (sp?) is going to have to pay a fortune in luxury tax before this is all done... like he cares?!!?

-Jason "the Nets will have their Big 3 to contend with Miami -- the new Brooklyn arena will be packed!" Evans

I think Lopez will be much better than people think, provided he stays healthy.

Cleveland, I'm convinced, is just doing this to try to screw the Heat and the "superteam" concept.

Humphries is the road block here because he wants a multi-year deal, not the 1 year deal. Honestly, as lame as he is, he's not an awful player in the league. Very good rebounder, possibly elite, and can occasionally score.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can anyone explain to me why the Cavs would want Quentin Richardson or Sundiata Gaines in the first place? A couple of NBA journeymen who basically shuffle from team to team and play for the NBA minimum as mid-deep bench players. Of course, as far as I can tell the only thing the Cavs are giving up is Luke Walton. I guess they are just a partner in all this so they can absorb some of the salary cap flotsam and jetsam to make it all work. I really want to know what restricted free agent Kris Humphries is going to sign for because the Cavs could get fleeced badly if they are forced to pay him too much (which may be why cash is headed their way to defray the cost of carrying that egomaniac on the roster).

The Cavs want Richardson (1 guaranteed left and 1 player option left) and Gaines (1 year left) due to salary cap issues. Right now, the Cavs are roughly $14-15 million below the minimum for the cap (which I believe is around $48 mill). They need players with short contracts. That is why Humphries is so key on that one-year (max two-year) contract: he will help them them get above the cap minimum while not destroying their cap in the long-term. Cleveland is not going to tank this year, but they will again be a bottom-8 team and have a high shot at the lottery, which is perfect for rebuilding.

If I were Humphries, though, I wouldn't sign a one-year deal. Rather, he is doing what is best for him. He needs to get that long-term contract, especially considering that he is in his prime right now. Also, I think the Cavs could use a strong rebounder like Humphries, although a front court player isn't that they need right now.

[CDu]

The Cavs want Richardson (1 guaranteed left and 1 player option left) and Gaines (1 year left) due to salary cap issues. Right now, the Cavs are roughly $14-15 million below the minimum for the cap (which I believe is around $48 mill). They need players with short contracts. That is why Humphries is so key on that one-year (max two-year) contract: he will help them them get above the cap minimum while not destroying their cap in the long-term. Cleveland is not going to tank this year, but they will again be a bottom-8 team and have a high shot at the lottery, which is perfect for rebuilding.

If I were Humphries, though, I wouldn't sign a one-year deal. Rather, he is doing what is best for him. He needs to get that long-term contract, especially considering that he is in his prime right now. Also, I think the Cavs could use a strong rebounder like Humphries, although a front court player isn't that they need right now.

Yup. They're taking the "plan B" (aka the "Thunder" approach) route to NBA success: build through the lottery. "Plan A" is what the Nets are trying to do (aka, the "Heat" approach).

I also think the NBA stands to gain from such a deal. Having a third "super-team" (and having that team in the NY area) will be good for business. Imagine a set of conference finals with Thunder (Durant, Westbrook, Harden)/Lakers (Bryant, Nash, Bynum, Gasol) and Heat (James, Wade, Bosh)/Nets (Howard, Williams, Johnson) or Heat/Celtics (Garnett, Rondo, Pierce). That's good stuff for the League.

[elvis14]

Cleveland is not going to tank this year, but they will again be a bottom-8 team and have a high shot at the lottery, which is perfect for rebuilding.

The only problem with this theory is that the Cavs just demonstrated that they really aren't very good at that whole draft thing. I mean LameBron and UncleDrew were obvious #1's that they couldn't screw up!

[FerryFor50]

Yup. They're taking the "plan B" (aka the "Thunder" approach) route to NBA success: build through the lottery. "Plan A" is what the Nets are trying to do (aka, the "Heat" approach).

I also think the NBA stands to gain from such a deal. Having a third "super-team" (and having that team in the NY area) will be good for business. Imagine a set of conference finals with Thunder (Durant, Westbrook, Harden)/Lakers (Bryant, Nash, Bynum, Gasol) and Heat (James, Wade, Bosh)/Nets (Howard, Williams, Johnson) or Heat/Celtics (Garnett, Rondo, Pierce). That's good stuff for the League.

I think it's bad for the league. Small market teams have little to no chance at competing with this and will eventually have to consider alternatives, such as relocation or selling the franchise.

What it is good for is the casual NBA fan - we get to see all-star games in the playoffs.

[COYS]

The only problem with this theory is that the Cavs just demonstrated that they really aren't very good at that whole draft thing. I mean LameBron and UncleDrew were obvious #1's that they couldn't screw up!

Count me as one who isn't ready to throw Waiters under the bus, yet. I'm still not sure that Waiters and Kyrie will make a strong enough defensive back court to work, but I think Waiters will surprise people with how good he is on offense.

[CDu]

I think it's bad for the league. Small market teams have little to no chance at competing with this and will eventually have to consider alternatives, such as relocation or selling the franchise.

But is that necessarily bad for the league? That's just bad for the small market teams. One could argue that relocation (presumably to larger markets) is good for the league in that it could potentially increase revenue by going to larger markets. But unless those teams fold altogether, I don't really see relocation/sale as bad for the league.


What it is good for is the casual NBA fan - we get to see all-star games in the playoffs.

Absolutely. Which will likely mean greater viewership and thus greater revenue for the league.

[Duvall]

I think it's bad for the league. Small market teams have little to no chance at competing with this and will eventually have to consider alternatives, such as relocation or selling the franchise.

Or drafting well, as has worked for Oklahoma City and San Antonio.

With the salary cap, does market size matter that much? There doesn't seem to be much variation in payroll between the "super-teams" and the rest of the league - it's not like MLB where you see the Yankees competing with division rivals with one-fifth of the payroll.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Or drafting well, as has worked for Oklahoma City and San Antonio.

With the salary cap, does market size matter that much? There doesn't seem to be much variation in payroll between the "super-teams" and the rest of the league - it's not like MLB where you see the Yankees competing with division rivals with one-fifth of the payroll.

I feel that drafting well is so hit-or-miss, but mainly on the miss. In the last 10 years, what title contenders have developed through the draft? I can only think of the 2010s Thunder, 2010s Pacers (contender?), 2010s Bulls (Boozer and role players weren't drafted), early 2000s Pistons (Billups wasn't drafted), and San Antonio. I would argue that the vast majority of teams are a mix between drafting, signing 1-2 major free agents 3-4 years later, and a bunch of solid role players (Lakers, Mavericks, Celtics, Magic, etc.). I tend to agree with Ferry that big market teams will generally be favored in this regard, especially considering their open wallets and the lack of success that most teams have with the draft approach.

Is it good for the NBA? Absolutely. $$$ reigns king as always. Is is good for small market teams? Nope, unless you luck out in the draft like the 2000s Spurs and the 2010s Thunder. Frankly speaking, I like this approach because it makes the playoffs super intense.

[CameronBornAndBred]

In a deal that is being cooked up for Dwight Howard to go to the Nets, Shelden Williams may be getting shipped to Orlando, where of course he would rejoin JJ Redick as a teammate. :)

According to sources the Nets would receive Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark in the proposed deal. The Magic would get Brook Lopez, Luke Walton, Damion James, Shelden Williams, Armon Johnson and three first-round picks -- two from the Nets and a lottery-protected first from the Clippers. The Cavs would get Kris Humphries, Quentin Richardson, Sundiata Gaines, a first-round pick from the Nets and $3 million in cash. The Clippers would receive MarShon Brooks.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8144717/sources-brooklyn-nets-orlando-magic-need-fourth-team-possibly-complete-dwight-howard-trade

It would be fun if the trade did not also include Duhon getting shipped out with Howard.

[flyingdutchdevil]

In a deal that is being cooked up for Dwight Howard to go to the Nets, Shelden Williams may be getting shipped to Orlando, where of course he would rejoin JJ Redick as a teammate. :)

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8144717/sources-brooklyn-nets-orlando-magic-need-fourth-team-possibly-complete-dwight-howard-trade

It would be fun if the trade did not also include Duhon getting shipped out with Howard.

You know that if the Magic make this trade, they'll be a bottom 3 team in the NBA, right? The Magic are essentially getting 25 cents on the dollar with this trade. Lopez is a nice offensive player, but he can't rebound and doesn't play a lick of defense. You're essentially getting 75% of Howard's points and none of his defense, which made the Magic a playoff team year-after-year.

I can't believe that Howard made that ultimatum regarding the Nets. In a league of Prima Donnas, he may be top dog in that category.

[Ichabod Drain]

You know that if the Magic make this trade, they'll be a bottom 3 team in the NBA, right? The Magic are essentially getting 25 cents on the dollar with this trade. Lopez is a nice offensive player, but he can't rebound and doesn't play a lick of defense. You're essentially getting 75% of Howard's points and none of his defense, which made the Magic a playoff team year-after-year.

I can't believe that Howard made that ultimatum regarding the Nets. In a league of Prima Donnas, he may be top dog in that category.

The only thing that makes this trade valuable to the Magic is the three first round picks. If it goes through they are going to be bad, probably for the next 2-3 years. This means they should get high lottery picks, that combined with the other three first round picks they'll get should help them bring in some good young talent over the coming years.

[CDu]

The only thing that makes this trade valuable to the Magic is the three first round picks. If it goes through they are going to be bad, probably for the next 2-3 years. This means they should get high lottery picks, that combined with the other three first round picks they'll get should help them bring in some good young talent over the coming years.

Those 3 additional 1st round picks are actually debatable in value. If the trade goes through, New Jersey would likely be a top-5 (ish) team. That means those 3 first rounders would be at the back end of the first round. Since 1st rounders are guaranteed contracts, that means the Magic would be forced to (a) sign a guy who isn't likely to be very good, (b) draft and stash a Euro and hope he is good in a couple of years when he comes over, or (c) trade the picks as part of some other trade package.

Picks at the back end of the first round are arguably the worst picks in the entire draft to have.

[phaedrus]

Is it good for the NBA? Absolutely. $$$ reigns king as always. Is is good for small market teams? Nope, unless you luck out in the draft like the 2000s Spurs and the 2010s Thunder. Frankly speaking, I like this approach because it makes the playoffs super intense.

Don't confuse "intense" with "marketable". Market size aside, I don't see how the "All-Star game" playoffs could be more intense than - or even as intense as - series between more organically grown teams.

Detroit-San Antonio didn't get the highest ratings, but I doubt those players wanted to win any less.

[phaedrus]

Absolutely. Which will likely mean greater viewership and thus greater revenue for the league.

Sure - during the 2 weeks of the Finals. Is that worth the half-empty buildings (and non-existent TV markets) in Milwaukee, Cleveland, Orlando, and a dozen others for the rest of the season?

[Ichabod Drain]

Those 3 additional 1st round picks are actually debatable in value. If the trade goes through, New Jersey would likely be a top-5 (ish) team. That means those 3 first rounders would be at the back end of the first round. Since 1st rounders are guaranteed contracts, that means the Magic would be forced to (a) sign a guy who isn't likely to be very good, (b) draft and stash a Euro and hope he is good in a couple of years when he comes over, or (c) trade the picks as part of some other trade package.

Picks at the back end of the first round are arguably the worst picks in the entire draft to have.

True, I guess it just depends on the draft class. There was still plenty of talent left in late first round this year whereas last year, not so much. And like you said they can use those picks to pick up some guys through trades as well. As long as they're smart about it I think those picks can be benneficial.

Not to mention they're losing Howard, who while one of the best players in the league, has plagued the Magic for the past two years.

[Duvall]

Don't confuse "intense" with "marketable". Market size aside, I don't see how the "All-Star game" playoffs could be more intense than - or even as intense as - series between more organically grown teams.

I suspect that the next Miami-Boston playoff series will provide evidence to the contrary, but I'm still unclear on why "organically grown teams" would be better for fans than ones built through free agency, aside from feeding the hope that every franchise is just two good drafts from greatness.

[FerryFor50]

I suspect that the next Miami-Boston playoff series will provide evidence to the contrary, but I'm still unclear on why "organically grown teams" would be better for fans than ones built through free agency, aside from feeding the hope that every franchise is just two good drafts from greatness.

I think fans see the "homegrown" teams as easier to root for and that they didn't have to go buying championships. It's similar to how one would feel building their own house as opposed to buying one pre-fab.

[phaedrus]

I suspect that the next Miami-Boston playoff series will provide evidence to the contrary, but I'm still unclear on why "organically grown teams" would be better for fans than ones built through free agency, aside from feeding the hope that every franchise is just two good drafts from greatness.

I didn't say such teams were "better". That question is a matter of taste. I countered another poster's assertion that "All-Star" teams led to more intense playoffs.

[UrinalCake]

How many years are left on the contracts of the guys that Orlando is getting? Their only hope at this point is to suck it up for a few years and rebuild. I'd be surprised if they plan on actually keeping any of those players, except for Lopez.

[-bdbd]

The only thing that makes this trade valuable to the Magic is the three first round picks. If it goes through they are going to be bad, probably for the next 2-3 years. This means they should get high lottery picks, that combined with the other three first round picks they'll get should help them bring in some good young talent over the coming years.

Agreed. Orlando has a new GM, so he can do this with some "safety", as in, "Hey, it was the other guy's problem. I'm just cleaning it up (and making my mark)." I saw a discussion on ESPN about it yesterday, and the gist of the conclusion was that the Magic just aren't going to get anything significantly better in terms of offers. With their resident superstar demading a trade, they get to clean house, clear tons of cap room and get those #1 picks to build around. Don't forget, per Icabod, with this make-up their own draft picks are probably going to be top-3-5 for the next few years too. But it may be a rough few years to be a Magic fan. Clearly they have been dealt a bad hand, but at least are making the best of it.

What I really like out of this is that a former Dukie is the GM of the fastest-rising team in the Eastern conference, playing in a brand new arena/market in NYC (Brooklyn). King is going to be a popular guy the next few years with three superstars now with the Nets. That ESPN discussion yesterday was saying that the Nets would become, with Howard, one of the top-3 teams in the East, along with Mia and Boston. Personally, I'd argue that Chicago could complete the "Big-Four" of the East.

Hey, maybe JJ gets some serious burn, albeit for a bottom-dwelling franchise, the next few seasons....

:rolleyes:

[elvis14]

Count me as one who isn't ready to throw Waiters under the bus, yet. I'm still not sure that Waiters and Kyrie will make a strong enough defensive back court to work, but I think Waiters will surprise people with how good he is on offense.

I agree with you about Waiters. Since I'd like to see Kyrie succeed I hope that Waiters works out. I was mostly kidding because of the way the Cavs cleverly played 3 picks into one UNC player.

In regards to the super teams and the smaller markets...I'd like to see the smaller teams remain viable. The NBA salary cap used to do a pretty good job of keeping the smaller teams in play. Lately, however we see more top players looking to move and teams using the sign-and-trade method to get something back and get the superstar paid. I wonder if the league will attempt to adjust the "Larry Bird" rule to prevent these sign and trade deals (seems like an abuse of a rule that was added to allow teams to keep their top talent).

[A-Tex Devil]

I suspect that the next Miami-Boston playoff series will provide evidence to the contrary, but I'm still unclear on why "organically grown teams" would be better for fans than ones built through free agency, aside from feeding the hope that every franchise is just two good drafts from greatness.

I think it's just the idea that fans can buy a jersey of a player and hope that when that player wins a championship, he's still with the team on that jersey. Yeah, it doesn't play into the money and rating, etc. But that's how organically grown teams can be "better."

[sporthenry]

In regards to the super teams and the smaller markets...I'd like to see the smaller teams remain viable. The NBA salary cap used to do a pretty good job of keeping the smaller teams in play. Lately, however we see more top players looking to move and teams using the sign-and-trade method to get something back and get the superstar paid. I wonder if the league will attempt to adjust the "Larry Bird" rule to prevent these sign and trade deals (seems like an abuse of a rule that was added to allow teams to keep their top talent).

I do think the NBA is in a bit of trouble with its competitive balance. Yes, the finals will be fun but getting there as a fan will drag. The NBA was aided this year by the condensed schedule so almost any night there was a compelling match-up but they will lose this next year. Additionally, more and more teams seem to be realizing that it makes no sense to dwell in mediocrity and rather to blow it all up and start over. Lets be honest, how many NBA teams have a realistic shot at the title? Maybe 4-6. Meanwhile, hockey and football can boast that just about half their league has a shot to win the title. Even baseball, last year the Cards were the 6th best team in their league as of August 25th and won it all and baseball's odds will just go up with the new wildcard team. The problem is that there are just so few superstars to go around and once they join up, there are even fewer. Imagine Dwayne Wade on the Sixers or Dwight Howard on Portland. There are probably quite a few teams that are only a player away but the more the all stars combine, the bigger the gap gets.

The new CBA Luxury Tax will get pretty lucrative as time goes by. It still originates with the dollar for dollar over the salary cap but it grows as you get further away from the salary cap and for repeat offenders. Additionally, teams paying taxes might not receive same mid level exception or acquire as much in trades. While its not a hard cap, it has some bite. An example would be the Lakers who paid $19.9 million in 2011 might have to pay as much as $64.58 million if they were repeat offenders and as much as some owners might not mind losing a little money to field a winner, the price can really skyrocket quickly. That is why many of the NBA analysts are calling this the last shot for some teams and why the Nets are trying very hard to get Howard now b/c in a few years, it'll be tough to pay that much for your whole roster.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

[elvis14]

I do think the NBA is in a bit of trouble with its competitive balance. Yes, the finals will be fun but getting there as a fan will drag. The NBA was aided this year by the condensed schedule so almost any night there was a compelling match-up but they will lose this next year. Additionally, more and more teams seem to be realizing that it makes no sense to dwell in mediocrity and rather to blow it all up and start over. Lets be honest, how many NBA teams have a realistic shot at the title? Maybe 4-6. Meanwhile, hockey and football can boast that just about half their league has a shot to win the title. Even baseball, last year the Cards were the 6th best team in their league as of August 25th and won it all and baseball's odds will just go up with the new wildcard team. The problem is that there are just so few superstars to go around and once they join up, there are even fewer. Imagine Dwayne Wade on the Sixers or Dwight Howard on Portland. There are probably quite a few teams that are only a player away but the more the all stars combine, the bigger the gap gets.

The new CBA Luxury Tax will get pretty lucrative as time goes by. It still originates with the dollar for dollar over the salary cap but it grows as you get further away from the salary cap and for repeat offenders. Additionally, teams paying taxes might not receive same mid level exception or acquire as much in trades. While its not a hard cap, it has some bite. An example would be the Lakers who paid $19.9 million in 2011 might have to pay as much as $64.58 million if they were repeat offenders and as much as some owners might not mind losing a little money to field a winner, the price can really skyrocket quickly. That is why many of the NBA analysts are calling this the last shot for some teams and why the Nets are trying very hard to get Howard now b/c in a few years, it'll be tough to pay that much for your whole roster.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Thanks for the CBA information about the Luxury Tax, it's interesting stuff. One thing that makes basketball different than some of the other sports is just how much impact a single player can have on a franchise. Add Dwight Howard or LBJ to an a pretty bad team and you get a team that's instantly relavant. That's harder to do in football and baseball. Individual players (particularly starting pitchers and QB's) can make a big difference but it's just not as big a difference as a single NBA player. What does worry me is that the NBA could end up like baseball where some owners can simply afford the additional cost of the luxury tax so they buy a great team year in and year out and just pay up.

[jv001]

Thanks for the CBA information about the Luxury Tax, it's interesting stuff. One thing that makes basketball different than some of the other sports is just how much impact a single player can have on a franchise. Add Dwight Howard or LBJ to an a pretty bad team and you get a team that's instantly relavant. That's harder to do in football and baseball. Individual players (particularly starting pitchers and QB's) can make a big difference but it's just not as big a difference as a single NBA player. What does worry me is that the NBA could end up like baseball where some owners can simply afford the additional cost of the luxury tax so they buy a great team year in and year out and just pay up.

I know we're talking NBA here, but just think how hard it is to improve a terrible college football team. Yeh, that's our own Duke Football Program. Makes me appreciate Coach Cut that much more. Well now back to the NBA. GoDuke!

[COYS]

Or drafting well, as has worked for Oklahoma City and San Antonio.

With the salary cap, does market size matter that much? There doesn't seem to be much variation in payroll between the "super-teams" and the rest of the league - it's not like MLB where you see the Yankees competing with division rivals with one-fifth of the payroll.

The thing about the salary cap is that some teams can afford the luxury tax while others cannot. Teams literally pay double for players that put them over the tax limit. Mark Cuban in Dallas plus the obvious places like LA, NYC, and Boston might be able to afford this. But the average team can't afford that. If the Lakers want to spend into tax territory to add a few missing pieces, it's not so bad for them. But if OKC wants to do the same thing, it'll be a much tougher pill to swallow. It is VERY hard to field a championship team without venturing into the luxury tax territory. It is even harder to keep a championship caliber team intact over multiple seasons without going over the tax limit.

I also think that luck plays a big role in the draft, as well. Smart GM's might make the best choices available to them, but it doesn't mean they're going to get a championship caliber team out of those players. The Thunder "lucked" into the #2 pick in 2007 instead of winning the #1 pick and drafting Oden (which would have been a very smart choice given everything that everyone knew at the time). Their subsequent drafts have been very smart, but it was the luck of Durant falling to #2 that has made their team a championship contender. Also, GM's have to be smart and lucky over multiple drafts in more or less successive years because otherwise the team gets too expensive before it has a chance to gel into a contender. If OKC fails to win the title next year, it is quite possible that their title window will close. They may not be able to afford Harden, Sefolosha, and other key pieces and will be forced to make tough choices. Big market teams are more easily able to keep a few key role players here and there that are often the difference between a star team with no supporting players and a championship squad.

That being said, you're right that there are ways for a small market team to win that may not be possible without the salary cap. However, I DO think that big market teams still have a significant advantage . . . especially when it comes to consistently fielding a contender.

[COYS]

The new CBA Luxury Tax will get pretty lucrative as time goes by. It still originates with the dollar for dollar over the salary cap but it grows as you get further away from the salary cap and for repeat offenders. Additionally, teams paying taxes might not receive same mid level exception or acquire as much in trades. While its not a hard cap, it has some bite. An example would be the Lakers who paid $19.9 million in 2011 might have to pay as much as $64.58 million if they were repeat offenders and as much as some owners might not mind losing a little money to field a winner, the price can really skyrocket quickly. That is why many of the NBA analysts are calling this the last shot for some teams and why the Nets are trying very hard to get Howard now b/c in a few years, it'll be tough to pay that much for your whole roster.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

That's a good point on the changes to how luxury tax works. I honestly did not fully understand it until now. It does seem that being able to creep into tax territory will be less of an advantage.

[theAlaskanBear]

Duke news!

Dahntay Jones and Darren Collison were traded to Dallas for Ian Mahinmi in a sign and trade deal.

[sagegrouse]

The Nets have given up on Dwight Howard and have signed Brook Lopez to a max deal -- four years, $60 million.

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

Well, it seems the Dwight Howard sweepstakes is, at least temporarily, on hold (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/07/dwight-howard-trade-talks-on-hold/1#.T_4YuZFSSgQ). The deal with the Nets has collapsed and the Nets have used their cap room to re-sign Lopez (4-years, $60 mil) and Gerald Wallace (4 years, $40 mil). A deal with Orlando now seems pretty much impossible for the Nets. I doubt they could even figure out a way to get him in under the cap when he becomes a free agent next off-season.

The Lakers and Rockets seems to still be a possibility, but that deal has always seemed pretty flimsy. Orlando only wants Andrew Bynum if he will agree to sign a contract extension. I doubt he will as he probably prefers playing for a winner and he is going to get paid no matter where he plays. The only way a deal happens is if the Rockets are willing to take on tons of long-term salary in addition to getting someone like Bynum or Howard and that is both tough to pull off and something I doubt the Rockets will do.

I am starting to think it is very possible that Dwight begins the season in Orlando and plays for them for at least a couple months of the season before Orlando sends him to someone for a bunch of expiring contracts and a few picks/young players. What a mess!

-Jason "I still have no idea why Dwight exercised his option during the season -- he should have just become a free agent and signed with the Nets" Evans

[theAlaskanBear]

Well, it seems the Dwight Howard sweepstakes is, at least temporarily, on hold (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/07/dwight-howard-trade-talks-on-hold/1#.T_4YuZFSSgQ). The deal with the Nets has collapsed and the Nets have used their cap room to re-sign Lopez (4-years, $60 mil) and Gerald Wallace (4 years, $40 mil). A deal with Orlando now seems pretty much impossible for the Nets. I doubt they could even figure out a way to get him in under the cap when he becomes a free agent next off-season.

The Lakers and Rockets seems to still be a possibility, but that deal has always seemed pretty flimsy. Orlando only wants Andrew Bynum if he will agree to sign a contract extension. I doubt he will as he probably prefers playing for a winner and he is going to get paid no matter where he plays. The only way a deal happens is if the Rockets are willing to take on tons of long-term salary in addition to getting someone like Bynum or Howard and that is both tough to pull off and something I doubt the Rockets will do.

I am starting to think it is very possible that Dwight begins the season in Orlando and plays for them for at least a couple months of the season before Orlando sends him to someone for a bunch of expiring contracts and a few picks/young players. What a mess!

-Jason "I still have no idea why Dwight exercised his option during the season -- he should have just become a free agent and signed with the Nets" Evans

No way Howard plays another game for the Magic. Every day they wait they will get less for them. If the Nets are truly out of it, then look for Howard to end up with the Lakers.

[BD80]

Duke news!

Dahntay Jones and Darren Collison were traded to Dallas for Ian Mahinmi in a sign and trade deal.

Isn't Ian Mahinmi that Mediterranean sauce with lots of garlic? Hard to believe that Dallas is a team with cap room that can make this kind of deal, AND still make a worthy bid for Elton.

Brenda Haywood is the big winner, getting amnestied to the tune of $28 (?) million over 3 years to give Dallas the cap room. I hope the Bobcats put in a $5 waiver bid and he gets stuck with MJ.


... the Nets have used their cap room to re-sign Lopez (4-years, $60 mil) and Gerald Wallace (4 years, $40 mil). A deal with Orlando now seems pretty much impossible for the Nets. I doubt they could even figure out a way to get him in under the cap when he becomes a free agent next off-season. ...

With Johnson, Williams and Wallace, I'm pretty sure they were at the cap. Lopez was a Bird-rights FA signing that avoided cap restrictions. They have something like $290 MILLION tied up in those 4 players alone.

[theAlaskanBear]

Isn't Ian Mahinmi that Mediterranean sauce with lots of garlic? Hard to believe that Dallas is a team with cap room that can make this kind of deal, AND still make a worthy bid for Elton.

Brenda Haywood is the big winner, getting amnestied to the tune of $28 (?) million over 3 years to give Dallas the cap room. I hope the Bobcats put in a $5 waiver bid and he gets stuck with MJ.



With Johnson, Williams and Wallace, I'm pretty sure they were at the cap. Lopez was a Bird-rights FA signing that avoided cap restrictions. They have something like $290 MILLION tied up in those 4 players alone.

Good info about the Net salary. Basically, the Magic waited too long to pull the trigger. The Nets were in a huge bind, because teams were about to offer Brook Lopez...once Lopez gets an offer from another team he is no longer eligible to be traded to the Magic...and he was a centerpiece of the deal. Now the Magic are looking at the Lakers and the Rockets....the Lakers could offer better talent but with no guarantee that Bynum will stay, and the Rockets can offer a better package of picks/salary relief/young players (but no one nearly as talented as Bynum).

[flyingdutchdevil]

Isn't Ian Mahinmi that Mediterranean sauce with lots of garlic? Hard to believe that Dallas is a team with cap room that can make this kind of deal, AND still make a worthy bid for Elton.

I hope Elton doesn't go to the Mavs, a team that has taken a massive hit this off-season with Jason Kidd, still a premier PG, and Jason Terry, one of the most underrated sixth men in the league. Kaman and Dirk are their two best pieces next year, but Collison cannot effectively distribute the ball (only 5 apg for the well-balanced Pacers). Elton should be a player who starts, because his presence on the floor is understated and he doesn't need to score to be effective. I think a team like the Nets would be a great place for Elton, or even a team like the Thunder. The more I think about it, the more I like the Thunder.

[CDu]

I hope Elton doesn't go to the Mavs, a team that has taken a massive hit this off-season with Jason Kidd, still a premier PG, and Jason Terry, one of the most underrated sixth men in the league. Kaman and Dirk are they're two best pieces next year, but Collison cannot effectively distribute the ball (only 5 apg for the well-balanced Pacers). Elton should be a player who starts, because his presence on the floor is understated and he doesn't need to score to be effective. I think a team like the Nets would be a great place for Elton, or even a team like the Thunder. The more I think about it, the more I like the Thunder.

I'm not sure the bolded part is accurate anymore. Kidd averaged 6.8 ppg and 5.5 apg this year while shooting just 36% from the field and playing poor defense. Two years ago, I'd have agreed he was still a premier PG. Now? He's 39 and has lost two steps.

That said, the Mavs have Dirk, Marion (not great, but still sort of useful), and $16 million in cap space. So they can add some pieces and be a very solid playoff team. But if Brand wants to win a championship, there are much better options for him. I'd love to see him in Chicago, for example, and I'm sure the Heat could make use of him as a backup to Bosh for the minimum.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm not sure the bolded part is accurate anymore. Kidd averaged 6.8 ppg and 5.5 apg this year while shooting just 36% from the field and playing poor defense. Two years ago, I'd have agreed he was still a premier PG. Now? He's 39 and has lost two steps.

That said, the Mavs have Dirk, Marion (not great, but still sort of useful), and $16 million in cap space. So they can add some pieces and be a very solid playoff team. But if Brand wants to win a championship, there are much better options for him. I'd love to see him in Chicago, for example, and I'm sure the Heat could make use of him as a backup to Bosh for the minimum.

You're right - I may have been living in the past about Kidd. But his presence and leadership are still undeniable, which I guess is why the Knicks wanted him so bad.

Shawn Marion averaged less points since his rookie season and he is clearly slipping. But, as you suggested, he is still on of their best players who can play the 3-4. That essentially means that their three most proven players are big men. Their backcourt is terrible. If Elton wants to win, I really like the prospect of the Thunder (a backup for the Lakers, but like I said, I still don't think Elton is suited for a backup roll like now). CDu - I know you're from Chicago, but didn't you say that the PF position is the one position that Chicago is set at? ;) Don't think they need Elton

[CDu]

You're right - I may have been living in the past about Kidd. But his presence and leadership are still undeniable, which I guess is why the Knicks wanted him so bad.

Shawn Marion averaged less points since his rookie season and he is clearly slipping. But, as you suggested, he is still on of their best players who can play the 3-4. That essentially means that their three most proven players are big men. Their backcourt is terrible. If Elton wants to win, I really like the prospect of the Thunder (a backup for the Lakers, but like I said, I still don't think Elton is suited for a backup roll like now). CDu - I know you're from Chicago, but didn't you say that the PF position is the one position that Chicago is set at? ;) Don't think they need Elton

I'd see Brand replacing Boozer (if the Bulls would amnesty Boozer). And Brand played quite a bit of his minutes at C last year, something I could see him doing a fair bit of as a Bull as well. The difference between Powe (which was my reference to "set at PF") is that Brand is much better and Brand can play C.

That said, someone will offer Brand more than the minimum, so I assume Brand is out of the question for the Bulls (who are bordering the luxury tax) anyway.

[BD80]

I'd see Brand replacing Boozer (if the Bulls would amnesty Boozer). And Brand played quite a bit of his minutes at C last year, something I could see him doing a fair bit of as a Bull as well. The difference between Powe (which was my reference to "set at PF") is that Brand is much better and Brand can play C.

That said, someone will offer Brand more than the minimum, so I assume Brand is out of the question for the Bulls (who are bordering the luxury tax) anyway.

Only teams with room under the cap are eligible for the waiver bid - and they can only bid within cap limits (don't know if the veteran's co-pay by the league factors in here)

I believe that Dallas is the best team with cap room remaining

[JasonEvans]

Only teams with room under the cap are eligible for the waiver bid - and they can only bid within cap limits (don't know if the veteran's co-pay by the league factors in here)

I believe that Dallas is the best team with cap room remaining

BD beat me to it. Elton will likely not have a choice in what team he goes to. Someone will pick up a portion of his salary and take over his contract. Such is the life of an amnestied player.

-Jason "someone may get him really cheap! Like $2 mil/season" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

BD beat me to it. Elton will likely not have a choice in what team he goes to. Someone will pick up a portion of his salary and take over his contract. Such is the life of an amnestied player.

-Jason "someone may get him really cheap! Like $2 mil/season" Evans

Does anyone know how this works? Does the team that signs Elton only get Elton for the remaining contract that was amnestied? If that's the case, Elton would be a free agent next summer, no?

[COYS]

-Jason "someone may get him really cheap! Like $2 mil/season" Evans

The team that gets him should do backflips. The achilles injury that Brand suffered at the end of his Clippers career is really unfortunate for him because it ended his reign as a consistent top 10 NBA player (even when he didn't get the recognition). However, the max contract he got in Philly and his inability to regain his old form after the injury has obscured the fact that he's still a very effective NBA power forward. He's got a solid midrange jumper, is a smart defender with long arms, and is still a medium to better than average rebounder. To get him at $2 Mil/year would be a bargain for an excellent option off the bench and a capable backup/occasional starter, where I think his current skills would actually be best suited as I bet he can still dominate against NBA second units. He'd still be a quality starter, too, if a team needs a starting PF. At the very worst, you get a high character guy who can be a leader and a mentor to younger players . . . all for $2 million.

[CDu]

BD beat me to it. Elton will likely not have a choice in what team he goes to. Someone will pick up a portion of his salary and take over his contract. Such is the life of an amnestied player.

-Jason "someone may get him really cheap! Like $2 mil/season" Evans

Yeah, I was merely discussing where he'd be best suited to go - not where he should choose to go (sorry if that wasn't clear). The Mavs have the most cap space of the contenders (they may be the only contenders with cap space, actually). So they are the most likely to get him. And the Bulls are almost certainly not getting him. I was just saying as a Bulls fan I'd want him (in place of Boozer, who they'd amnesty in such a scenario). But since the Bulls can't bid and aren't amnestying Boozer any time soon, it's moot.

[BD80]

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/11/elton-brand-hoping-to-be-claimed-by-mavericks/


Teams that are eligible have to submit minimum bids of $1.35 million, the minimum salary for a veteran like Brand with more than 10 years’ experience.

Looks like there won't be much of a bidding war


League sources indicated that at least three teams with room, the Cavaliers, Bucks and Raptors, would not be making bids on Brand. The Suns and Hornets were contemplating making a bid, according to other league sources. But teams are leery of making bids if Brand doesn't want to play there.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19570369/elton-brand-hopes-mavericks-sign-him-off-amnesty-waivers

Brand is in the last year of his contract, so he will be a FA. I think a team that claims him off waivers would have Bird rights (the ability to re-sign regardless of cap issues) per the Lin arbitration issue decided in Lin/Knicks favor. If nobody claims him off waivers, there would be no Bird rights.

[BD80]

Houston "amnestying" Luis Scola

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19573056/report-rockets-to-amnesty-luis-scola

Really good player, reasonable contract ($21mil / 3 yrs) dumped to gain cap space for anything Orlando wants to unload as part of a deal for Howard.

Good news: he's too good a player to clear waivers, so the Heat, Lakers etc won't get him.

Bad news: Dallas might go for him instead of (in addition to?) Brand.

This had to be discussed with the Magic first, and they didn't want Scola. If I'm the Magic, that's a piece I'd want for Howard, a reasonably price vet that the home crowd will like to watch and root for while the multitude of draft picks trickle onto the roster and learn how to play.

[Dukefan1.0]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8162111/source-los-angeles-lakers-looking-antawn-jamison-elton-brand-jermaine-oneal

Didn't see this posted, but the Lakers are looking for some extra big men for depth. They're eying Atwain Jameson who averaged 17 pts and 6 rebs last year with Cleveland, in negotiations with Jordan Hill who got from Houston in March whom the Lakers also have the Bird rights, Jermaine O'neal is also on their short list who had wrist surgery last season, and finally as previously mentioned Elton Brand who would have to clear waivers to go to LA. It does seem that their search for front court depth stems from McRobert's expiring contract who would probably be apart of some trade scenarios for Howard, and being cautious if Hill doesn't sign with LA.

[theAlaskanBear]

Houston "amnestying" Luis Scola

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19573056/report-rockets-to-amnesty-luis-scola

Really good player, reasonable contract ($21mil / 3 yrs) dumped to gain cap space for anything Orlando wants to unload as part of a deal for Howard.

Good news: he's too good a player to clear waivers, so the Heat, Lakers etc won't get him.

Bad news: Dallas might go for him instead of (in addition to?) Brand.

This had to be discussed with the Magic first, and they didn't want Scola. If I'm the Magic, that's a piece I'd want for Howard, a reasonably price vet that the home crowd will like to watch and root for while the multitude of draft picks trickle onto the roster and learn how to play.

Right on. Beat me to it. This seals the deal -- they have to have a guarantee from the Magic to waive Scola like that -- Howard to the Rockets! Someone is going to get very lucky with Luis Scola. He would be perfect for a team like the Blazers, New York, Charlotte, really anyone truly...

[BD80]

Can you amnesty a player who has been in witness protection?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/12/report-timberwolves-to-amnesty-darko-milicic/related/

So now Darko, unless someone claims him or signs him, will get $7 million NOT to play over next 2 years.

How is that different from the last 9 years?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can you amnesty a player who has been in witness protection?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/12/report-timberwolves-to-amnesty-darko-milicic/related/

So now Darko, unless someone claims him or signs him, will get $7 million NOT to play over next 2 years.

How is that different from the last 9 years?

BD80, come one... you know some ridiculously stupid GM is going to give Darko a contract that overpays him by 200-300%. It's inevitable. Like Dwight committing to Orlando next week and then asking for a trade the week after.

[CDu]

Right on. Beat me to it. This seals the deal -- they have to have a guarantee from the Magic to waive Scola like that -- Howard to the Rockets! Someone is going to get very lucky with Luis Scola. He would be perfect for a team like the Blazers, New York, Charlotte, really anyone truly...

Either that or Morey screwed up and is now throwing caution to the wind now in an all-out effort to get Howard (and take on other bad contracts from Orlando). I'm guessing he got assurances that Orlando didn't want Scola's contract in a Howard trade. And since Scola is just a decent player (not a difference maker) Morey decided to go scorched earth in his efforts.

The funny thing is that he's essentially going to create another Orlando situation for Howard. If he makes the trade, he's going to have a bunch of crap around Howard (including several of Howard's Orlando teammates). Maybe there will be cap space. But they won't likely get a star to play alongside Howard unless they have enough cap space to get Paul (and they can convince Paul to come there).

[FerryFor50]

I really don't understand how these GMs are going all in on a player who likely will bolt after 1 year. The Nets quit trying because they knew they can get him next season. I think the rest of the NBA should follow suit. Orlando should have traded him last year. Now they're likely going to lose him for nothing or close to nothing.

[sagegrouse]

I really don't understand how these GMs are going all in on a player who likely will bolt after 1 year. The Nets quit trying because they knew they can get him next season. I think the rest of the NBA should follow suit. Orlando should have traded him last year. Now they're likely going to lose him for nothing or close to nothing.

I know that Dwight was physically ready for the NBA after HS in Atlanta. But, who the heck are his advisors, Clarabelle the Clown and Mortimer Snerd? He has made a series of dumb moves that will surely tarnish his HOF legacy. Surely he would have benefitted in this regard from a year in college, where he would have had friends and coaches who could have become a sounding board for later decisions.

I mean, really!

a. Signing a one-year extension with the O's, when he could otherwise be a free agent now and negotiate his own deal.
b. Totally undermining SVG as coach by saying widely that he didn't want to play for him, even though his apparent real motive was to get out of Orlando.
c. Announcing that he would only accept a trade to the Nets.
d. Then balking even at that, leading the Nets to give a max contract to Brook Lopez, -- clearly a romance on the rebound.

sagegrouse
'Sorry for the 1950s references'

[FerryFor50]

I know that Dwight was physically ready for the NBA after HS in Atlanta. But, who the heck are his advisors, Clarabelle the Clown and Mortimer Snerd? He has made a series of dumb moves that will surely tarnish his HOF legacy. Surely he would have benefitted in this regard from a year in college, where he would have had friends and coaches who could have become a sounding board for later decisions.

I mean, really!

a. Signing a one-year extension with the O's, when he could otherwise be a free agent now and negotiate his own deal.
b. Totally undermining SVG as coach by saying widely that he didn't want to play for him, even though his apparent real motive was to get out of Orlando.
c. Announcing that he would only accept a trade to the Nets.
d. Then balking even at that, leading the Nets to give a max contract to Brook Lopez, -- clearly a romance on the rebound.

sagegrouse
'Sorry for the 1950s references'

I don't know that Dwight balked at the trade - the Magic just didn't like the idea of getting fleeced.

They think they can sucker some other team into taking on Howard, who almost definitely won't sign with them.

Rock, meet hard place.

While Dwight has been a bonehead, I blame the Magic even more. They've screwed up TWO different scenarios where they had an elite big (Shaq and Dwight) by not building the teams correctly and not locking them up sooner. Oops.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't know that Dwight balked at the trade - the Magic just didn't like the idea of getting fleeced.

They think they can sucker some other team into taking on Howard, who almost definitely won't sign with them.

Rock, meet hard place.

While Dwight has been a bonehead, I blame the Magic even more. They've screwed up TWO different scenarios where they had an elite big (Shaq and Dwight) by not building the teams correctly and not locking them up sooner. Oops.

Cleveland did the exact same thing. As did Minnesota and a few others. Building a team around 1 superstar is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of strategic planning, which is why there are so many failures. Plus, with the egos in the NBA, the players' voice is more powerful than probably any other sport.

[FerryFor50]

Cleveland did the exact same thing. As did Minnesota and a few others. Building a team around 1 superstar is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of strategic planning, which is why there are so many failures. Plus, with the egos in the NBA, the players' voice is more powerful than probably any other sport.

Yea but what team has managed to screw it up TWICE?

Minny will have a chance real soon if they don't make Kevin Love happy...

[JasonEvans]

The Scola amnesty has not happened yet. Houston has two offer sheets out on free agents that needs to get resolved first. The offer sheet on Jeremy Lin is almost certain to be matched by the Knicks, but the Omer Asik sheet might not be matched by the Bulls. It is not clear if the Rockets will be able to clear the cap space to do what Orlando wants if the Bulls let them get Asik. The Rockets likely made these offers before they knew Howard was an option for them this year, but they probably want the deals to be matched at this point.


The funny thing is that he's essentially going to create another Orlando situation for Howard. If he makes the trade, he's going to have a bunch of crap around Howard (including several of Howard's Orlando teammates). Maybe there will be cap space. But they won't likely get a star to play alongside Howard unless they have enough cap space to get Paul (and they can convince Paul to come there).

This is the thing that baffles me about the situation. Houston is going to gut their team (give up all their young, cheap draft players/picks) and their salary flexibility (take on some gross Orlando contracts) to get Howard and then will not be able to keep him. Lets even say they figure out a way to get one more good player... that's only 2. The NBA paradigm right now is having 3 stars. Dwight wants to be a part of a 3 star tandem. Houston cannot offer that.

-Jason "I think Houston is on a fool's errand" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

The Scola amnesty has not happened yet. Houston has two offer sheets out on free agents that needs to get resolved first. The offer sheet on Jeremy Lin is almost certain to be matched by the Knicks, but the Omer Asik sheet might not be matched by the Bulls. It is not clear if the Rockets will be able to clear the cap space to do what Orlando wants if the Bulls let them get Asik. The Rockets likely made these offers before they knew Howard was an option for them this year, but they probably want the deals to be matched at this point.



This is the thing that baffles me about the situation. Houston is going to gut their team (give up all their young, cheap draft players/picks) and their salary flexibility (take on some gross Orlando contracts) to get Howard and then will not be able to keep him. Lets even say they figure out a way to get one more good player... that's only 2. The NBA paradigm right now is having 3 stars. Dwight wants to be a part of a 3 star tandem. Houston cannot offer that.

-Jason "I think Houston is on a fool's errand" Evans

If you are correct about the 3-superstar team, then Howard's only real destinations are a) Minnesota, b) LA, or c) Clippers. Minnesota isn't a possibility considering Dwight's preference for a large market. The Clippers don't have the assets to trade for Dwight due to a lack of exciting assets not named Paul or Griffin. LA seems like the best destination, plus Dwight would be playing for one of the best PGs in the NBA. However, given Howard's poor meeting with Kobe earlier in the year, I just don't see this happening.

Other teams that fit the bill for destinations (but aren't likely) are Atlanta (they have two really good players but are both front court players already), Thunder (would have to give up Perkins, Ibaka and/or Harden, which is too much), and Chicago (Noah and Boozer would be possible but doubt Orlando would take that. Noah and Deng is probably a good tandem to trade for Howard, though). However, given that Orlando also wants to get rid of contracts, I just don't see this happening.

Sorry, Dwight. It's slim pickens! The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

[Des Esseintes]

If you are correct about the 3-superstar team, then Howard's only real destinations are a) Minnesota, b) LA, or c) Clippers. Minnesota isn't a possibility considering Dwight's preference for a large market. The Clippers don't have the assets to trade for Dwight due to a lack of exciting assets not named Paul or Griffin. LA seems like the best destination, plus Dwight would be playing for one of the best PGs in the NBA. However, given Howard's poor meeting with Kobe earlier in the year, I just don't see this happening.

Other teams that fit the bill for destinations (but aren't likely) are Atlanta (they have two really good players but are both front court players already), Thunder (would have to give up Perkins, Ibaka and/or Harden, which is too much), and Chicago (Noah and Boozer would be possible but doubt Orlando would take that. Noah and Deng is probably a good tandem to trade for Howard, though). However, given that Orlando also wants to get rid of contracts, I just don't see this happening.

Sorry, Dwight. It's slim pickens! The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Things change in 2013, though. Atlanta, for example, could trade Horford and have room to sign both Howard and Paul. Dallas will have room next year as well. So we'll see.

[BD80]

I really don't understand how these GMs are going all in on a player who likely will bolt after 1 year. The Nets quit trying because they knew they can get him next season. I think the rest of the NBA should follow suit. Orlando should have traded him last year. Now they're likely going to lose him for nothing or close to nothing.

The Nets CANNOT sign him as a free agent next year unless Howard agrees to leave about $15 million per YEAR on the table - they are WAY over the cap. They could make a sign and trade next summer, using Lopez's max deal in the mix. They can also trade for Howard in January (Lopez can't be traded until then because he just signed a new deal) up until the trade deadline.


... This is the thing that baffles me about the situation. Houston is going to gut their team (give up all their young, cheap draft players/picks) and their salary flexibility (take on some gross Orlando contracts) to get Howard and then will not be able to keep him. Lets even say they figure out a way to get one more good player... that's only 2. The NBA paradigm right now is having 3 stars. Dwight wants to be a part of a 3 star tandem. Houston cannot offer that.

-Jason "I think Houston is on a fool's errand" Evans

By trading for Howard, the Rockets would be able to offer Howard more money per year ($2-5 million?) AND an extra year on the contact. Depending on the RFA offers, Houston could be far enough under the cap to also offer Chris Paul a max deal next summer.

[A-Tex Devil]

The Nets CANNOT sign him as a free agent next year unless Howard agrees to leave about $15 million per YEAR on the table - they are WAY over the cap. They could make a sign and trade next summer, using Lopez's max deal in the mix. They can also trade for Howard in January (Lopez can't be traded until then because he just signed a new deal) up until the trade deadline.



By trading for Howard, the Rockets would be able to offer Howard more money per year ($2-5 million?) AND an extra year on the contact. Depending on the RFA offers, Houston could be far enough under the cap to also offer Chris Paul a max deal next summer.

Good post. Morey is playing a high stakes long game here. Next year is not the year for Houston, but frankly, Howard f'd that up for himself too by agreeing to the 1 year extension. Unless a 3 team deal is worked where Howard goes to the Lakers, Howard is not going to any title contender next year. That ship has sailed.

Morey's endgame is not Howard, but Howard is key to his endgame imo, and that's where the stakes get high. The plan would be to bring Howard in and convince him to sign on with a plan of bringing in another top 20 player next summer (or maybe even midseason). And if Howard doesn't want to stay in Houston after next year, he can go to another middling team that has cap room for a max contract, or he can let Houston sign and trade him for assets. And when it comes to acquiring players in trades, that's where "in Morey I trust." If not for some injuries and sicknesses at the end of the year last year, Houston could have been as high as 5th in the west without any top 30 NBA players.

Make no mistake --- Morey will lose his job if Scola gets amnestied and the Rockets don't get Howard. But if they do get Howard, watch out, because there will be more moves coming.

[Chicken Little]

While Dwight has been a bonehead, I blame the Magic even more. They've screwed up TWO different scenarios where they had an elite big (Shaq and Dwight) by not building the teams correctly and not locking them up sooner. Oops.

I agree wholeheartedly that the Dwight-era decisions of the front office(read: Otis Smith) in Orlando make no sense to me(reacquiring Turk for the money they didn't want to match before he left town most glaringly), but I'm not so sure the Magic could have done much to keep Shaq in town. He had a pretty solid team around him in Penny, Horace Grant, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, etc. and I think they were genuinely pretty blindsided by his departure. I may recall incorrectly, but all signs pointed to his staying in town and it was a serious coup for the Lakers to sweep him off his very large feet. The 94-95 team got swept in the finals by a Houston Rockets team that was on fire, but finished the regular season atop the Eastern Conference. I think all the pieces were there if Shaq had stuck around to make a legitimate repeat contender, which is more than I can say for Dwight's Magic.

The organization has done everything imaginable to screw up the chances of Dwight staying, but I don't know that I blame the organization for both scenarios, similar as they seem.

[Des Esseintes]

I agree wholeheartedly that the Dwight-era decisions of the front office(read: Otis Smith) in Orlando make no sense to me(reacquiring Turk for the money they didn't want to match before he left town most glaringly), but I'm not so sure the Magic could have done much to keep Shaq in town. He had a pretty solid team around him in Penny, Horace Grant, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, etc. and I think they were genuinely pretty blindsided by his departure. I may recall incorrectly, but all signs pointed to his staying in town and it was a serious coup for the Lakers to sweep him off his very large feet. The 94-95 team got swept in the finals by a Houston Rockets team that was on fire, but finished the regular season atop the Eastern Conference. I think all the pieces were there if Shaq had stuck around to make a legitimate repeat contender, which is more than I can say for Dwight's Magic.

The organization has done everything imaginable to screw up the chances of Dwight staying, but I don't know that I blame the organization for both scenarios, similar as they seem.

The Magic didn't help themselves with an initial lowball offer (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2011/06/shaq-sheds-light-on-departure-from-orlando.html) that the Lakers bettered. A terrible penny-wise, pound-foolish calculation, as prime-years Shaq was worth the absolute highest of salaries. As the article says, the Magic eventually made Shaq an equivalent proposal, but by then the decision had been made and the damage done. You may be right, of course, that O'Neal was never going to resign with Orlando, but you still have to play your hand as well as you can. They certainly did not do that.

[FerryFor50]

The Magic didn't help themselves with an initial lowball offer (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2011/06/shaq-sheds-light-on-departure-from-orlando.html) that the Lakers bettered. A terrible penny-wise, pound-foolish calculation, as prime-years Shaq was worth the absolute highest of salaries. As the article says, the Magic eventually made Shaq an equivalent proposal, but by then the decision had been made and the damage done. You may be right, of course, that O'Neal was never going to resign with Orlando, but you still have to play your hand as well as you can. They certainly did not do that.

When you're Orlando, you have to pay a little extra to beat out the LAs and NYs of the world. Just the way it works, and they haven't learned that yet...

[BD80]

BD80, come one... you know some ridiculously stupid GM is going to give Darko a contract that overpays him by 200-300%. It's inevitable. Like Dwight committing to Orlando next week and then asking for a trade the week after.

Well, the Sixers just signed Kwame Brown for 2 yrs at $3 mil per.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19578183/kwame-brown-to-sign-2-year-deal-with-philadelphia-76ers

[JasonEvans]

By trading for Howard, the Rockets would be able to offer Howard more money per year ($2-5 million?) AND an extra year on the contact. Depending on the RFA offers, Houston could be far enough under the cap to also offer Chris Paul a max deal next summer.

I may be reading the cap figures wrong, but I think that Houston's problem is that they cannot acquire Howard from Orlando (a move which will require them to take on a hefty portion of Orlando's messy salaries) and still have the cap room to sign anyone to a max deal. Yes, if they just got Howard for a bunch of recent draftees and picks then they would still have cap flexibility. But, Orlando is going to want them to take on contracts like Turkoglu (about$10 mil/year thru 2014), Jason Richardson (about $6 mil/year thru 2015), and Glen Davis (also about $6 mil/year thru 2015). That's more than $20 mil/season to those guys plus Howard is going to be somewhere close to $20 mil to re-sign (he made $18 mil last year). There simply would not be room to also sign Chris Paul or some other big-time NBA free agent.

It would not be so bad if Houston could just amnesty Turkoglu (for example), but they need to use their amnesty on Scola to clear the room to bring Howard in. Now, if Houston can get Orlando to do the deal and not send more than maybe $12-$15 mil in contracts back to Houston then it might give Houston some room, but I don't see Orlando making that deal as it does little to fix their problems.

-Jason "I truly think the Hawks will become a player in this mess at some point, as I think Ferry can make it work and keep Dwight happy too" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, the Sixers just signed Kwame Brown for 2 yrs at $3 mil per.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19578183/kwame-brown-to-sign-2-year-deal-with-philadelphia-76ers

For a back-up center, that's actually not bad (Kwame has been averaging around 6-7 ppg and rpg). However, it is Kwame...

There needs to be some sort of punishment system for GMs, where for all the players who get over 150% for what their worth, the GMs who made the deals enter a lottery to become the next GM of the Bobcats. Fair?

[Dukefan1.0]

According to SI http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/13/raptors-jose-calderon-trade-demand/?sct=nba_t2_a8 and Espn it looks like the Raptors are looking to trade Calderon. Also Kyle Korver pending on a physical is being sent to Atlanta in a three team trade that sends a second round pick from Minnesota to Chicago http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-bulls-trade-korver-to-atlanta-20120713,0,744854.story

[hq2]

or a back-up center, that's actually not bad (Kwame has been averaging around 6-7 ppg and rpg). However, it is Kwame...

There needs to be some sort of punishment system for GMs, where for all the players who get over 150% for what their worth, the GMs who made the deals enter a lottery to become the next GM of the Bobcats. Fair?

So, they could all realize their fantasies and become Michael Jordan; as I recall, Kwame was an MJ #1 pick a while ago, right?

[NM Duke Fan]

Mavericks claim Elton Brand after 76ers amnesty

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19579308/reports-mavericks-claim-elton-brand-after-76ers-amnesty

[mike88]

The Scola amnesty has not happened yet. Houston has two offer sheets out on free agents that needs to get resolved first. The offer sheet on Jeremy Lin is almost certain to be matched by the Knicks, but the Omer Asik sheet might not be matched by the Bulls. It is not clear if the Rockets will be able to clear the cap space to do what Orlando wants if the Bulls let them get Asik. The Rockets likely made these offers before they knew Howard was an option for them this year, but they probably want the deals to be matched at this point.



This is the thing that baffles me about the situation. Houston is going to gut their team (give up all their young, cheap draft players/picks) and their salary flexibility (take on some gross Orlando contracts) to get Howard and then will not be able to keep him. Lets even say they figure out a way to get one more good player... that's only 2. The NBA paradigm right now is having 3 stars. Dwight wants to be a part of a 3 star tandem. Houston cannot offer that.

-Jason "I think Houston is on a fool's errand" Evans

From what Dwight has said, all we can surmise is that he wants to be in Brooklyn. He wanted to go there before the Nets acquired Joe Johnson or Gerald Wallace, and I am not even sure he really cared if D Williams re-signed. But that ship has sailed, at least until January.

[HK Dukie]

Mavericks claim Elton Brand after 76ers amnesty

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19579308/reports-mavericks-claim-elton-brand-after-76ers-amnesty

Dallas now with Dahntay Jones and Elton Brand. I always liked Mark Cuban. Now I can fully cheer for his team.

[Duvall]

The Bobcat turnaround begins now. (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222316/Bobcats_Claim_Brendan_Haywood_Off_Waivers)

[BD80]

The Bobcat turnaround begins now. (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222316/Bobcats_Claim_Brendan_Haywood_Off_Waivers)

even more reason to root for the bobheels, tarcats, or whoever

brenda playing for mj, priceless

[MChambers]

even more reason to root for the bobheels, tarcats, or whoever

brenda playing for mj, priceless

Gerald deserves better. Wow!

[SupaDave]

The Bobcat turnaround begins now. (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222316/Bobcats_Claim_Brendan_Haywood_Off_Waivers)

Can't be mad at a NC boy getting to come home to retire. That's a nice little present. Bren might actually have something to show the young boys about how you get a chip now...

[Duvall]

Can't be mad at a NC boy getting to come home to retire. That's a nice little present. Bren might actually have something to show the young boys about how you get a chip now...

Was he taking notes from the bench while Chandler was working?

[burnspbesq]

"The offer sheet on Jeremy Lin is almost certain to be matched by the Knicks"

Not so fast my friend. ESPN is reporting that the Knicks are now talking to Portland about a sign-and-trade for Ray-Ray Felton. The $14.8 million third year of Lin's offer sheet from Houston is a real problem for the Knicks. If they match that, they will have $75 million tied up in four players in 2014-15.

If Portland is talking, I suppose that means that they would be comfortable going into next year with Nolan as a starter.

[BD80]

"The offer sheet on Jeremy Lin is almost certain to be matched by the Knicks"

Not so fast my friend. ESPN is reporting that the Knicks are now talking to Portland about a sign-and-trade for Ray-Ray Felton. The $14.8 million third year of Lin's offer sheet from Houston is a real problem for the Knicks. If they match that, they will have $75 million tied up in four players in 2014-15.

If Portland is talking, I suppose that means that they would be comfortable going into next year with Nolan as a starter.

More than just talk, ray going on the cheap 3 yrs $10 mil.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19587022

[Starter]

The Knicks have no idea what they're doing.

[UrinalCake]

If Portland is talking, I suppose that means that they would be comfortable going into next year with Nolan as a starter.

Well they did draft Damian Lillard who I would presume to be the starter, but Nolan's still in a really good position now with he and Lillard as the only point guards on the roster. He should get some serious floor time, and could even start.

[theAlaskanBear]

The Knicks have no idea what they're doing.

I have to flag this post as "adding nothing substantive to the thread", because, well, this goes without saying as long as Dolan owns the team....;)

[JasonEvans]

What baffles me is the Rockets move, not the Knicks. A couple days ago the Rockets upped their offer to Lin fairly significantly and that is at least part of the reason the Knicks made the Felton move. The new Lin contract calls for him to be paid something like $15 mil in the last year of the deal... which just seems insane to me. As a result, the Rockets are now very likely to take on Lin's salary, which will really cramp their cap space and ability to take on those undesirable contracts that Orlando wants to unload.

A piece of me wonders if Houston really wants Howard. Unless they think Jeremy Lin is the kind of "star" Dwight wants to play with (no way) then they are just making themselves less and less attractive to the big fella. Part 1 of their plan is to deal for Howard, but part 2 is to get him to sign long term. They just made part 1 and part 2 a lot less likely.

-Jason "the Knicks deal for Felton really does make it seem like the Blazers like Nolan" Evans

[CDu]

-Jason "the Knicks deal for Felton really does make it seem like the Blazers like Nolan" Evans

Or Lillard, the PG who they just drafted in the first round...

[sagegrouse]

What baffles me is the Rockets move, not the Knicks. A couple days ago the Rockets upped their offer to Lin fairly significantly and that is at least part of the reason the Knicks made the Felton move. The new Lin contract calls for him to be paid something like $15 mil in the last year of the deal... which just seems insane to me. As a result, the Rockets are now very likely to take on Lin's salary, which will really cramp their cap space and ability to take on those undesirable contracts that Orlando wants to unload.

A piece of me wonders if Houston really wants Howard. Unless they think Jeremy Lin is the kind of "star" Dwight wants to play with (no way) then they are just making themselves less and less attractive to the big fella. Part 1 of their plan is to deal for Howard, but part 2 is to get him to sign long term. They just made part 1 and part 2 a lot less likely.

-Jason "the Knicks deal for Felton really does make it seem like the Blazers like Nolan" Evans

Sign Lin to an unbalanced deal, as you described, and then................. the Knicks or Rockets renegotiate it in six months on mutually agreeable terms that get rid of the "poison pill" in year three.

The other thought is that the Rockets are still basking in the glow of Yao Ming and remain very popular in China. Jeremy Lin, who surely has some Chinese given names or will quickly acquire some, will help further the popularity.

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

Sign Lin to an unbalanced deal, as you described, and then................. the Knicks or Rockets renegotiate it in six months on mutually agreeable terms that get rid of the "poison pill" in year three.

While I do not know the specifics, the NBA collective bargaining agreement does not allow teams to do that kind of thing. Players are not allowed to renegotiate for less money than they are currently making, or something like that. If you are under contract, there are specific rules for how a contract can be renegotiated. Part of that is because the league does not want RFAs to strike outrageous deals with new teams and then renegotiate to a more favorable deal once the old teams cannot match. Does that make sense?

-Jason "Stephen A is just killing Lin on Sportscenter -- says the Knicks think he lost his fire and desire and got a big ego once he got to be famous" Evans

[Duvall]

Or Lillard, the PG who they just drafted in the first round...

Still, if Portland is willing to go into next season with a rookie as the only other point guard on the roster, that can be seen as a sign of *some* confidence in Smith. Or at least optimism.

[COYS]

-Jason "Stephen A is just killing Lin on Sportscenter -- says the Knicks think he lost his fire and desire and got a big ego once he got to be famous" Evans

I honestly do not know why Stephen A is allowed to comment on anything. Even if there is a nugget of truth in what he's saying (and there is NO evidence that there is), his outrageous, over-exaggerated comments about something he probably knows very little about (the internal thoughts of Lin while recovering from knee surgery) delegitimize any logic his argument might have. I love how Smith attacks Lin for an ego when there are bigger and more obvious egos on the team in Melo and A'mare. If anything, this seems almost like some conspiracy theory from the Knicks to trash Lin in the media so Knick fans will swallow the bitter pill of him being in a Rockets uniform next year a little easier. Lin was a little hurt and confused that the Knicks didn't immediately match the offer from the Rockets. So what? Can you blame him? He only played the best basketball of his life on the biggest of stages, taking them to big wins over good teams despite an injury to the team's supposed best player. The Knicks, who were never afraid to pay a ton of luxury tax money for horrible teams, are now wary of going into tax territory three years from now even though a combo of Lin, Melo, A'mare, and Chandler is almost certainly their best chance to get a championship caliber squad if they can develop the right chemistry? They give that up to re-sign Felton who had a down season last year and whose greatest asset is his speed, which is deteriorating thanks to poor conditioning? I honestly don't get it.

[BD80]

... -Jason "the Knicks deal for Felton really does make it seem like the Blazers like Nolan" Evans

Maybe it speaks of how the Blazers feel about felton

[theAlaskanBear]

What baffles me is the Rockets move, not the Knicks. A couple days ago the Rockets upped their offer to Lin fairly significantly and that is at least part of the reason the Knicks made the Felton move. The new Lin contract calls for him to be paid something like $15 mil in the last year of the deal... which just seems insane to me. As a result, the Rockets are now very likely to take on Lin's salary, which will really cramp their cap space and ability to take on those undesirable contracts that Orlando wants to unload.

A piece of me wonders if Houston really wants Howard. Unless they think Jeremy Lin is the kind of "star" Dwight wants to play with (no way) then they are just making themselves less and less attractive to the big fella. Part 1 of their plan is to deal for Howard, but part 2 is to get him to sign long term. They just made part 1 and part 2 a lot less likely.

-Jason "the Knicks deal for Felton really does make it seem like the Blazers like Nolan" Evans

The Rockets deal makes more sense when you realize that the salary cap rules make it so that new teams can "average out" the salary over its term as the cap hit (so the rockets cap hit is /3, whereas the matching team has to count it against the cap as the year per year structure.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[CDu]

The Rockets deal makes more sense when you realize that the salary cap rules make it so that new teams can "average out" the salary over its term as the cap hit (so the rockets cap hit is /3, whereas the matching team has to count it against the cap as the year per year structure.

Correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct. This is the same scenario facing the Bulls with Asik. The deal is much less awful from the Rockets perspective.

[oakvillebluedevil]

The other thought is that the Rockets are still basking in the glow of Yao Ming and remain very popular in China. Jeremy Lin, who surely has some Chinese given names or will quickly acquire some, will help further the popularity.

Another benefit for the Rockets is that it gives them an enormous expiring contract two years down the road. Could be a strong trade chip used to replenish some of the resources they would be expending to potentially get Howard or the other big name player they've been seeking. Essentially, they're getting a player that I'd say could be worth 5 mil/year for his on court production alone (14 pts, 6 ast) for two years, and then a nice trade option the year after that. That's a small price to pay, especially when you consider the potential revenue and popularity boost that sage mentioned.

[moonpie23]

jason Kidd


http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8168193

[BD80]

Great pick-up by the Suns, one of the better power forwards at a waiver price - with Houston paying the rest.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19591424/suns-claim-luis-scola-off-waiver-wire-amnesty-josh-childress

The amnesty wheel continues to spin, the sons dumping Josh Childress

[Starter]

I have to flag this post as "adding nothing substantive to the thread", because, well, this goes without saying as long as Dolan owns the team....;)

LOL. Just a random vent.

On the bright side with the Jason Kidd arrest, at least it wasn't for domestic violence this time. That's worse, I guess? Not sure.

[Des Esseintes]

LOL. Just a random vent.

On the bright side with the Jason Kidd arrest, at least it wasn't for domestic violence this time. That's worse, I guess? Not sure.

The likeable player count on the Knicks is back to Isiah Years lows. There is Chandler, the injured Shumpert, and, I don't know, Novak maybe? I like Stoudemire the entity still, but his game these days only reminds of how quickly youth fades. Other than that, generally unappealing dudes. I've been in New York nine years, and I've wanted to cheer for this team. They just make it so hard.

[JasonEvans]

Great pick-up by the Suns, one of the better power forwards at a waiver price - with Houston paying the rest.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19591424/suns-claim-luis-scola-off-waiver-wire-amnesty-josh-childress

The amnesty wheel continues to spin, the sons dumping Josh Childress

Scola is a great pick up for the Suns. I wonder what they are paying for him but anything less than about $6 mil a year is a huge bargain for a player like that.

As an aside, Josh Childress will forever be known as the loser that the Hawks took instead of drafting Luol Deng. When asked to explain why he had taken Childress instead of the much higher regarded Deng, Hawks GM Billy Knight said he liked Childress' length.

Apparently, Billy Knight had never seen Luol Deng, who is the very personification of length.

-Jason "Danny Ferry drafts Luol every day of the week and twice on Sunday!" Evans

[Starter]

The likeable player count on the Knicks is back to Isiah Years lows. There is Chandler, the injured Shumpert, and, I don't know, Novak maybe? I like Stoudemire the entity still, but his game these days only reminds of how quickly youth fades. Other than that, generally unappealing dudes. I've been in New York nine years, and I've wanted to cheer for this team. They just make it so hard.

Yeah, Novak's cool.

If anyone still pines for the Isiah years, and I bet they don't, it's hard to draw a distinction between that period and right now. His college teammates serve as GM and head coach, and virtually every move they make seems like something he would have done during his horrible regime. (I'd hope the difference is that there's less sexual harassment occurring than was the case back then.) As a Knicks fan who nonetheless loathes the team, I can't possibly endorse rooting for them if you don't already. They're like the good-for-nothing brother I'm stuck with. I'd say check out Brooklyn, see if they grab you -- Mr. Evans can let you in on the high points of Iso-Joe ;) -- and go with them if they're fun. I'm not sure how good they'll be, but they have Jay-Z courtside, which is something, at least in my book. They also have the point guard the Knicks should have had if their incompetent owner didn't trade all their assets for Carmelo Anthony.

I agree with Jason, by the way, Scola was a nice pickup. So was Dragic, who I think -- bear with me here -- I'd rather have than Nash if I'm the Suns given his accelerating age. Nash works for a team like the Lakers, but Dragic is going to be a stud. I don't know exactly how good the Suns are yet, but they're on the right track getting Dragic back.

[UrinalCake]

The Rockets deal makes more sense when you realize that the salary cap rules make it so that new teams can "average out" the salary over its term as the cap hit (so the rockets cap hit is /3, whereas the matching team has to count it against the cap as the year per year structure.

Well that does make sense, thanks for the explanation. I also wonder if the Rockets were suckered by the Knicks' proclamation that they would "match any offer for Lin up to a billion dollars." That sounds to me like they were trying to get another team to overbid for him, and Houston bit.

As for Lin being unhappy that the Knicks never made him an outright offer, he should be the happiest guy in the world. Allowing other teams to bid first basically ensured he would get the largest possible contract. When he came out and criticized the Knicks, I didn't really see that as him having an ego, but rather as immaturity and failure to recognize the business side of the NBA.

[sagegrouse]

Well that does make sense, thanks for the explanation. I also wonder if the Rockets were suckered by the Knicks' proclamation that they would "match any offer for Lin up to a billion dollars." That sounds to me like they were trying to get another team to overbid for him, and Houston bit.

As for Lin being unhappy that the Knicks never made him an outright offer, he should be the happiest guy in the world. Allowing other teams to bid first basically ensured he would get the largest possible contract. When he came out and criticized the Knicks, I didn't really see that as him having an ego, but rather as immaturity and failure to recognize the business side of the NBA.

BTW, the Stephen A. rant is clearly a Knicks plant. They gave him an exclusive, and he ran with it since he had the exclusive. This is the message (Lin's not worth it and was a problem, esp. in sitting out the Miami series) the Knicks want their fans to believe.

Who the heck knows the truth?

sagegrouse

[CDu]

BTW, the Stephen A. rant is clearly a Knicks plant. They gave him an exclusive, and he ran with it since he had the exclusive. This is the message (Lin's not worth it and was a problem, esp. in sitting out the Miami series) the Knicks want their fans to believe.

Who the heck knows the truth?

sagegrouse

Well, I'm guessing the truth is this:
- the Knicks would have loved to have retained Lin at the right price
- the Rockets REALLY wanted Lin, and made sure they bid enough to get him
- the Knicks balked at the last year of the contract, and got pissed that the Rockets called their bluff
- the Knicks went into spin mode after losing the very popular PG strictly for financial reasons

The Knicks clearly downgrade their PG position unless Felton really turns over a new leaf or Lin really flops. But they were completely justified in not wanting to pay the extra $30 million in luxury tax for that last year for a risky. If Lin becomes an All-Star player, he'd be worth the $45 million in year 3 (and would be a STEAL in years 1 and 2). But if he struggles to remain a starter, that $45 million in year 3 becomes a noose.

[elvis14]

I agree with Jason, by the way, Scola was a nice pickup. So was Dragic, who I think -- bear with me here -- I'd rather have than Nash if I'm the Suns given his accelerating age. Nash works for a team like the Lakers, but Dragic is going to be a stud. I don't know exactly how good the Suns are yet, but they're on the right track getting Dragic back.

Starter, I'm a fan of Nash but you are right that Dragic is a better option for the Suns right now. They need to build and Nash is a little too old to build around. The Lakers need to get a little better and Nash isn't too old to give them a good year or two to make a run with their guys. I'm wondering if Grant Hill is going to follow Nash to LA!!!


Well, I'm guessing the truth is this:
- the Knicks would have loved to have retained Lin at the right price
- the Rockets REALLY wanted Lin, and made sure they bid enough to get him
- the Knicks balked at the last year of the contract, and got pissed that the Rockets called their bluff
- the Knicks went into spin mode after losing the very popular PG strictly for financial reasons

The Knicks clearly downgrade their PG position unless Felton really turns over a new leaf or Lin really flops. But they were completely justified in not wanting to pay the extra $30 million in luxury tax for that last year for a risky. If Lin becomes an All-Star player, he'd be worth the $45 million in year 3 (and would be a STEAL in years 1 and 2). But if he struggles to remain a starter, that $45 million in year 3 becomes a noose.

Cdu, I think you're version of the truth is pretty accurate. For me the best thing about Felton moving over to underachieve for the Knicks is that it should get Nolan more PT in Portland. I do wonder in regards to Lin and the $$ issues, would his popularity help the team bring in enough $$ to offset the cost? Or is LinSanity pretty much over and sales of Lin jerseys aren't likely to continue at a high rate (unless he really continued to step up his game, which doesn't seem likely with Melo on the court).

[CDu]

Cdu, I think you're version of the truth is pretty accurate. For me the best thing about Felton moving over to underachieve for the Knicks is that it should get Nolan more PT in Portland. I do wonder in regards to Lin and the $$ issues, would his popularity help the team bring in enough $$ to offset the cost? Or is LinSanity pretty much over and sales of Lin jerseys aren't likely to continue at a high rate (unless he really continued to step up his game, which doesn't seem likely with Melo on the court).

I suspect you're right about Linsanity having already peaked (at least in New York). I think the only way for him to continue to be a financial boon in New York is if he becomes an All-Star. So his value to another team (especially one with an already-established Chinese market) may be higher than it is with New York. In other places, the novelty value still applies.