Danny Ferry

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Loved watching Danny Ferry scoring 58 vs. Miami! Thanks to Julio for posting that. First time I've seen it. I remember listing to a scratchy radio broadcast of that game - it wasn't on TV. Miami had just restarted their basketball program that year, so playing them was almost "doing them a favor", and remember, they were not in the ACC in those years.

But back to Ferry. He was an amazing, multi-talented player for us, and is so under-appreciated and almost forgotten by today's fans when discussing Duke greats of yesteryear.

[hq2]

Loved watching Danny Ferry scoring 58 vs. Miami! Thanks to Julio for posting that. First time I've seen it. I remember listing to a scratchy radio broadcast of that game - it wasn't on TV. Miami had just restarted their basketball program that year, so playing them was almost "doing them a favor", and remember, they were not in the ACC in those years.

But back to Ferry. He was an amazing, multi-talented player for us, and is so under-appreciated and almost forgotten by today's fans when discussing Duke greats of yesteryear.

People forget that Ferry played in three final fours, on two of which he was the best Duke player.
The problem is that the Laettner-G Hill era came along directly after him, and the two championships sort of overshadowed him. The fact that he was also injured and never became a great pro didn't help
his legacy either. But, he's on my second team all-time Duke team. He was an incredibly versatile
player who did a lot for the program. Sorry he has been overlooked with time.

[OldPhiKap]

Ferry was the first big man who could play outside for Duke (in the Coach K, three point era at least). And as a coach's son, he was a master of leaning in on the shot and getting the "and one" call. Standard today, perhaps, but not back then.

Laettner was an extension of what Danny started. Great player. Per Wikipedia:


During his college career, he helped lead the Blue Devils to the Final Four in 1986, 1988 and 1989, twice winning the MVP award for the East Regional. He was selected to the first team All-America in 1989 and second-team All-America in 1988. Ferry still holds Duke's all-time single game scoring record, scoring 58 points against Miami on December 10, 1988. He is among Duke's greatest players of all time, ranking 5th in career points, 5th in career rebounds, and 7th in career assists–the only player in the top 10 of all three categories. Ferry became the first player in Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) history to collect more than 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds and 500 assists in his collegiate career. He left Duke with several national player of the year awards under his belt, including the Naismith College Player of the Year, USBWA College Player of the Year (Oscar Robertson Trophy and the UPI player of the year awards. Ferry's number 35 was retired in 1989 at the end of his senior season.

Always wondered if things would have been different if he hadn't bolted to Italy instead of playing for the Clippers (IIRC) when drafted.

One of my favorites, and agreed he is underappreciated as a foundation of what we've become.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Ferry was the first big man who could play outside for Duke (in the Coach K, three point era at least). And as a coach's son, he was a master of leaning in on the shot and getting the "and one" call. Standard today, perhaps, but not back then.

Laettner was an extension of what Danny started. Great player. Per Wikipedia:



Always wondered if things would have been different if he hadn't bolted to Italy instead of playing for the Clippers (IIRC) when drafted.

One of my favorites, and agreed he is underappreciated as a foundation of what we've become.

I remember thinking when I first saw him play that he was like a coach on the court..... and he was a freshman!

[-jk]

Ferry was the first big man who could play outside for Duke (in the Coach K, three point era at least).

Mark Alarie might have something to say on this point.

-jk

[FellowTraveler]

Always wondered if things would have been different if he hadn't bolted to Italy instead of playing for the Clippers (IIRC) when drafted.

Yeah. He would have blown out his knee two weeks into his rookie season.

[OldPhiKap]

Mark Alarie might have something to say on this point.

-jk

My avatar over the last few years speaks to how I admired Alarie. But his outside shot was nowhere near Danny's.

And, as I've said before, Alarie's number should be retired. To the extent it already isn't, of course.

You actually raise a great question -- Danny's number is rightfully retired. Was he more important to Duke than Mark's contributions? It's pretty even in my book. And, as I've said above, Danny is more than deserving of having his number retired and being considered one of the all-time greats. So is Mark, IMVHO.

[-jk]

My avatar over the last few years speaks to how I admired Alarie. But his outside shot was nowhere near Danny's.

And, as I've said before, Alarie's number should be retired. To the extent it already isn't, of course.

You actually raise a great question -- Danny's number is rightfully retired. Was he more important to Duke than Mark's contributions? It's pretty even in my book. And, as I've said above, Danny is more than deserving of having his number retired and being considered one of the all-time greats. So is Mark, IMVHO.

If I recall correctly (always in question) the 3 pt shot was experimental in the ACC one season for Mark. He had a very nice mid-range (by today's standards) shot. I suspect he could have had a very effective 3 given the motivation of a 3 to work for. But we'll never really know.

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

If I recall correctly (always in question) the 3 pt shot was experimental in the ACC one season for Mark. He had a very nice mid-range (by today's standards) shot. I suspect he could have had a very effective 3 given the motivation of a 3 to work for. But we'll never really know.

-jk

I want to say it was the '82-'83 season but I could be wrong. Mark, and cerainly JD, would have pumped the numbers even higher if they had four years of it.

Danny, by contrast, IIRC had the three point line in high school and therefore came to Duke with a trained ability to hit that distance.

Again, Mark's number should be retired and I don't ever want to take the side of "Mark was not as good as X." Mark was a better trailer on the break than Danny. But Danny had that pop out and hit the 3 that is common now, but certainly was innovative back then.

I assume we are agreeing more than disagreeing on this, don't want to stir up a debate that may not be there. Both were great.

[miramar]

IIRC Danny should have been credited with the NCAA record for the most consecutive shots made, but the Miami scorer counted an obvious pass as a shot.

It would be the one where he appears to go up for a shot but then seems to change his mind and tries to pass it inside and the pass is blocked, but it was still counted as a shot. Nevertheless, Danny recovered the ball and scored anyway. Duke appealed but Miami wouldn't budge, unfortunately.

It was also nice to see some of the other players, such as Phil Henderson, Robert Brickey, John Smith, and Quin Snyder. (Not to mention the uniforms, which even with the shorter pants are nicer looking than the ones we have today.) It may seem strange now, but once the Dawkins class graduated, a lot of people figured that Duke would go back to being the third team in the triangle, but all of these players thought otherwise.

[WeepingThomasHill]

Folks, Danny Ferry is simply not only one of the greatest Duke players ever, but one of the greatest college basketball players in the history of the game. He was the second coming of Larry Bird, and if he had not been terribly misused by the Cavs (whose fan base also never forgave the Cavs trade of the beloved Ron Harper for Ferry's rights), he would have been All-NBA for years. That's how good he was. It's a tragedy how his career was wasted - I was just glad he got that elusive ring with the Spurs.

I don't like to criticize one of our own, but the comparisons of Alarie's career and Ferry's are borderline comical. Ferry was a consensus All-American and NPOY. Alarie was in the Hall of Very Good, and a notable building block of the program. But Ferry was a transcendent talent.

[JBDuke]

My avatar over the last few years speaks to how I admired Alarie. But his outside shot was nowhere near Danny's.

And, as I've said before, Alarie's number should be retired. To the extent it already isn't, of course.

You actually raise a great question -- Danny's number is rightfully retired. Was he more important to Duke than Mark's contributions? It's pretty even in my book. And, as I've said above, Danny is more than deserving of having his number retired and being considered one of the all-time greats. So is Mark, IMVHO.

I think the biggest difference between Danny and Mark is their teammates. Mark came in as part of arguably Duke's greatest recruiting class, and he pretty much played the second banana to JD - who is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, player in Duke history. When the class of '86 graduated, Danny was clearly the best player on Duke's roster for the next 3 years. Mark put up great numbers, and was a key player in Duke's ascension under K, but Danny carried that team for the next 3 years. I'm not saying Mark couldn't have done the same thing; he just didn't have the opportunity. As a result, Danny's career was the more prominent one.

[OldPhiKap]

I think the biggest difference between Danny and Mark is their teammates. Mark came in as part of arguably Duke's greatest recruiting class, and he pretty much played the second banana to JD - who is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, player in Duke history. When the class of '86 graduated, Danny was clearly the best player on Duke's roster for the next 3 years. Mark put up great numbers, and was a key player in Duke's ascension under K, but Danny carried that team for the next 3 years. I'm not saying Mark couldn't have done the same thing; he just didn't have the opportunity. As a result, Danny's career was the more prominent one.

I think that's a pretty fair read. OPK

[Olympic Fan]

Allow me to weigh in on the Alarie-Ferry debate.

I don't see how anybody could argue that Alarie was Ferry's equal, but it's not lopsided in terms of career value. Alarie WAS very good -- first-team All-ACC as a sophomore (Ferry was only second team as a sophomore), second team as a junior and first team again as a senior. Ferry was first team his last two years, so both were twice first-team and once second-team All-ACC. The difference is that Ferry was twice ACC player of the year. Alarie was third-team All-American in 1986 ... Ferry was concensus second team in 1988 and consensus first-team in 1989. That year he split the major National Player of the year Awards with Arizona's Sean Elliot -- both won three of the six recognized awards (Ferry won UPI, Basketball Writers and Naismith).

Statistically, Alarie averaged 16.1 points and 6.3 rebounds a game for his career. Ferry averaged 15.1 and 7.0. Alarie, who didn't have the 3-point shot (he attempted 2 in 1983, the year of the short experimental), ended up shooting over 55 percent from the field and 79.7 from the foul line. Ferry hit 48.4 and 77.5 fropm the foul line.

You might say advantage Alarie, except for two factors -- Ferry WAS a good (not great) 3-point shooter. hitting 108 of 279 (38.6 percent). In addition -- and I think this is the important difference between the two -- Ferry was perhaps the best-passing big man in the histoy of the ACC. He was a "point forward" who passed out 506 assists in 143 games (3.5 a game). The only frontcourt player close to him is Grant Hill, who had slightly more assists a game (3.6) but less overall (461). Only six players in Duke history have more assists than Ferry.

Now, Alarie was a good passing big man with 152 assists in 133 a game, but obviously not in Ferry's class.

Both were exceptionally good defenders -- statistically, Ferry had a few more steals, Alarie had a few more blocked shots. I can't point to individual honors, but both were key playrs on exceptional defensive etams (the 1988 Duke teammight have been the best ever, although Billy King and Robert Brickey had a lot to do with that).

I guess my overall point is that just as Ferry has been somewhat overshadowed by Laettner (who overlapped with him one year), Alarie has been somewhat overshadowed by Ferry (who overlapped with him one year). In the end, Alarie was not quite the player Ferry was, but it was no so lopsided as some would suggest. I think Ferry gets credit for his national honors -- his junior and senior years were better than anything Alarie had, even though Alarie was probably better as a freshman and sophomore (hard to compare freshman years -- VERY different circumstances, Alarie was the second best player on a struggling young team; Ferry was the sixth man on the best team in the nation).

I believe that except for Ferry's passing skills (which I don't mean to diminish), they were very similar as players. I know the stats show Ferry with more range and while he might have had a bit more shooting range, it wasn't much. Just consider that the one year Alarie had the 3-point shot, he was a freshman and was still developing. Several of Duke's best big-man shooters did little from long range as freshmen -- Laettner attempted one 3-pointer as a freshman; Battier made 4 of 24 3-pointers as a freshman. Ferry didn't show an outside shot as a freshman either (no 3-point shot that year, so tough to prove, but Alarie was much more of an outside threat that year; Ferry was basically locked into the low post). I'm sure if Alarie had had the 3-point shot for his last three years, he'd have made his share -- maybe not as many as Ferry, but close ... as it was, he focused on the mid-range jumper -- why take a 20-footer when a 15-footer counts just as much?

I do think of Alarie as Coach K's first inside/outside big man. Ferry -- and then Laettner -- took it to another level, but Alarie was the first.

Both great players.

[lotusland]

One thing I liked about Ferry was that he had a reputation for being a little sneaky or "dirty" in the minds of Carolina fans. He was accused of often using a subtle push or hold to gain an defensive or rebounding advantage among Carolina fans back then. It was similar to what Duke fans say about Hansbrough traveling. I honestly can't remember how valid the complaints were but I enjoyed the whining nonetheless.

[Turtleboy]

I think the biggest difference between Danny and Mark is their teammates. Mark came in as part of arguably Duke's greatest recruiting class, and he pretty much played the second banana to JD - who is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, player in Duke history. A second banana who was third in career scoring when he graduated, 19 points shy of second, after having played all four years with the No. 1 (at the time) scorer. I suspect that is a bit hard to do.

[Spencer's Daddy]

One thing I liked about Ferry was that he had a reputation for being a little sneaky or "dirty" in the minds of Carolina fans. He was accused of often using a subtle push or hold to gain an defensive or rebounding advantage among Carolina fans back then. It was similar to what Duke fans say about Hansbrough traveling. I honestly can't remember how valid the complaints were but I enjoyed the whining nonetheless.

Danny did something to UVa's Tom Sheehy below the belt which caused Sheehy to retaliate and kicked out of the game one year in Cameron.

[OldPhiKap]

Danny did something to UVa's Tom Sheehy below the belt which caused Sheehy to retaliate and kicked out of the game one year in Cameron.

Beween Ferry and Meagher, I'm betting that Sheehey didn't like Cameron.

Or guys named Daniel, for that matter.

[JBDuke]

One thing I liked about Ferry was that he had a reputation for being a little sneaky or "dirty" in the minds of Carolina fans. He was accused of often using a subtle push or hold to gain an defensive or rebounding advantage among Carolina fans back then. It was similar to what Duke fans say about Hansbrough traveling. I honestly can't remember how valid the complaints were but I enjoyed the whining nonetheless.


Danny did something to UVa's Tom Sheehy below the belt which caused Sheehy to retaliate and kicked out of the game one year in Cameron.

I remember Danny being on the lane to rebound a FT. The shooter had one of those extended FT mechanics that occasionally drew lane violations. Danny noticed the opponent next to him on the lane was leaning in a little far, glanced around to make sure the refs weren't looking, and "helped" the guy in the back, causing him to stumble into the lane - lane violation! :-)

[luvdahops]

Allow me to weigh in on the Alarie-Ferry debate.

I don't see how anybody could argue that Alarie was Ferry's equal, but it's not lopsided in terms of career value. Alarie WAS very good -- first-team All-ACC as a sophomore (Ferry was only second team as a sophomore), second team as a junior and first team again as a senior. Ferry was first team his last two years, so both were twice first-team and once second-team All-ACC. The difference is that Ferry was twice ACC player of the year. Alarie was third-team All-American in 1986 ... Ferry was concensus second team in 1988 and consensus first-team in 1989. That year he split the major National Player of the year Awards with Arizona's Sean Elliot -- both won three of the six recognized awards (Ferry won UPI, Basketball Writers and Naismith).

Statistically, Alarie averaged 16.1 points and 6.3 rebounds a game for his career. Ferry averaged 15.1 and 7.0. Alarie, who didn't have the 3-point shot (he attempted 2 in 1983, the year of the short experimental), ended up shooting over 55 percent from the field and 79.7 from the foul line. Ferry hit 48.4 and 77.5 fropm the foul line.

You might say advantage Alarie, except for two factors -- Ferry WAS a good (not great) 3-point shooter. hitting 108 of 279 (38.6 percent). In addition -- and I think this is the important difference between the two -- Ferry was perhaps the best-passing big man in the histoy of the ACC. He was a "point forward" who passed out 506 assists in 143 games (3.5 a game). The only frontcourt player close to him is Grant Hill, who had slightly more assists a game (3.6) but less overall (461). Only six players in Duke history have more assists than Ferry.

Now, Alarie was a good passing big man with 152 assists in 133 a game, but obviously not in Ferry's class.

Both were exceptionally good defenders -- statistically, Ferry had a few more steals, Alarie had a few more blocked shots. I can't point to individual honors, but both were key playrs on exceptional defensive etams (the 1988 Duke teammight have been the best ever, although Billy King and Robert Brickey had a lot to do with that).

I guess my overall point is that just as Ferry has been somewhat overshadowed by Laettner (who overlapped with him one year), Alarie has been somewhat overshadowed by Ferry (who overlapped with him one year). In the end, Alarie was not quite the player Ferry was, but it was no so lopsided as some would suggest. I think Ferry gets credit for his national honors -- his junior and senior years were better than anything Alarie had, even though Alarie was probably better as a freshman and sophomore (hard to compare freshman years -- VERY different circumstances, Alarie was the second best player on a struggling young team; Ferry was the sixth man on the best team in the nation).

I believe that except for Ferry's passing skills (which I don't mean to diminish), they were very similar as players. I know the stats show Ferry with more range and while he might have had a bit more shooting range, it wasn't much. Just consider that the one year Alarie had the 3-point shot, he was a freshman and was still developing. Several of Duke's best big-man shooters did little from long range as freshmen -- Laettner attempted one 3-pointer as a freshman; Battier made 4 of 24 3-pointers as a freshman. Ferry didn't show an outside shot as a freshman either (no 3-point shot that year, so tough to prove, but Alarie was much more of an outside threat that year; Ferry was basically locked into the low post). I'm sure if Alarie had had the 3-point shot for his last three years, he'd have made his share -- maybe not as many as Ferry, but close ... as it was, he focused on the mid-range jumper -- why take a 20-footer when a 15-footer counts just as much?

I do think of Alarie as Coach K's first inside/outside big man. Ferry -- and then Laettner -- took it to another level, but Alarie was the first.

Both great players.

Excellent post. I'm '85 and still consider Alarie the best shooting big that Duke has had under K. He was damn near automatic on corner jumpers, and was very, very good on elbow extended to the top of the key as well. 80% on FTs for a true PF is excellent as well. The lack of 3-pointers during Mark's time does obscure things a bit. Per my comments above, he would have made plenty had the rule been in place throughout his college career. To draw a finer line in the comparison, Ferry shot 50.3% on 2pt FGs for his career (vs. Alarie's 55.0% overall).

[Reilly]

...Ferry shot 50.3% on 2pt FGs for his career (vs. Alarie's 55.0% overall).

I was curious as to their NBA shooting percentages.

Alarie: 48% FG, 25% 3PT, 78% FT
Ferry: 45% FG, 39% 3PT, 84% FT

Didn't realize Danny had such a high NBA 3-point percentage.

[nocilla]

Beween Ferry and Meagher, I'm betting that Sheehey didn't like Cameron.

Or guys named Daniel, for that matter.

Was he anywhere around when Daniel Ewing was called for a technical?