Larry Brown: Formidable Competition Calipari Who? There's a New Kid on the Bloc

[greybeard]

Calipari is talented at coaching talent, in particular at helping the-best of the best one and doners prepare for the pros and win big during their year of apprenticeship. The key, in my opinion, to his consistent success at recruiting these budding stars has been getting the top-rate point (who wouldn't want to play with a star point in a pro style game? And, I have to believe that the key to Calipari's considtent success in landing that point year in and year out has been Strickland.

Strickland has left, and he is now with a coach, a developer of talent who can run circles around Cal. The combination of Strickland's ability to mentor a star quality point, to model and teach the dazzling parts of the game, has to have been Calipari's best selling point. Why else did he have Stricland around. If the opportunity to learn the game and play for one of the best teachers the game has ever known was not enough, Larry has Strickland to land the straw; Larry will stir the drink.

Calipari might well be toast. Also, everything points to the fact that Larry intends to use this new gig to go out on top--to win it all again in his very last gig, one that it seems it was not easy for him to land. Yeap, Larry wants him another championship and then ride off into the sunset. I think everybody ought to sit up and take notice of this one.

[SupaDave]

Calipari is talented at coaching talent, in particular at helping the-best of the best one and doners prepare for the pros and win big during their year of apprenticeship. The key, in my opinion, to his consistent success at recruiting these budding stars has been getting the top-rate point (who wouldn't want to play with a star point in a pro style game? And, I have to believe that the key to Calipari's considtent success in landing that point year in and year out has been Strickland.

Strickland has left, and he is now with a coach, a developer of talent who can run circles around Cal. The combination of Strickland's ability to mentor a star quality point, to model and teach the dazzling parts of the game, has to have been Calipari's best selling point. Why else did he have Stricland around. If the opportunity to learn the game and play for one of the best teachers the game has ever known was not enough, Larry has Strickland to land the straw; Larry will stir the drink.

Calipari might well be toast. Also, everything points to the fact that Larry intends to use this new gig to go out on top--to win it all again in his very last gig, one that it seems it was not easy for him to land. Yeap, Larry wants him another championship and then ride off into the sunset. I think everybody ought to sit up and take notice of this one.

At SMU? Very intriguing. Things are about to get interesting in Texas.

[tommy]

Calipari is talented at coaching talent, in particular at helping the-best of the best one and doners prepare for the pros and win big during their year of apprenticeship. The key, in my opinion, to his consistent success at recruiting these budding stars has been getting the top-rate point (who wouldn't want to play with a star point in a pro style game? And, I have to believe that the key to Calipari's considtent success in landing that point year in and year out has been Strickland.

Strickland has left, and he is now with a coach, a developer of talent who can run circles around Cal. The combination of Strickland's ability to mentor a star quality point, to model and teach the dazzling parts of the game, has to have been Calipari's best selling point. Why else did he have Stricland around. If the opportunity to learn the game and play for one of the best teachers the game has ever known was not enough, Larry has Strickland to land the straw; Larry will stir the drink.

Calipari might well be toast. Also, everything points to the fact that Larry intends to use this new gig to go out on top--to win it all again in his very last gig, one that it seems it was not easy for him to land. Yeap, Larry wants him another championship and then ride off into the sunset. I think everybody ought to sit up and take notice of this one.

Brown may "intend" to go out on top, but his chances of doing so at a backwater like SMU, with zero basketball history and tradition and lots of other obstacles, is essentially zero.

Strickland was instrumental in the recruiting successes at Kentucky, but assistant Orlando Antigua has been HUGE as a recruiting force for Calipari. Whenever the kids talk about the connection they have at Kentucky, they're always talking about "Coach O."

Calipari, with another big class coming in, and now with a championship under his belt, is far from toast. He has the most successful on-the-court program in the nation going right now. By far. And it's the destination of choice for a very large percentage of the top high school players in the land.

[OldPhiKap]

Larry Brown? The punk who took a cheap shot at Art Heyman and set off a court riot?

I hope he gets the same treatment Doh! got with the Smustangs.

Feh.




(Not that I hold a grudge or anything)

[Turtleboy]

Brown is the basketball genius who kept LeBron and Carmelo on the bench all the way to a flameout in the Olympics. He really doesn't like to play rookies. That doesn't jibe with the Calipari model at all.

[greybeard]

Larry Brown? The punk who took a cheap shot at Art Heyman and set off a court riot?

I hope he gets the same treatment Doh! got with the Smustangs.

Feh.




(Not that I hold a grudge or anything)

Larry took the cheap shot? You're kidding right? Duke was up by about 30 (I think it was actually more) in the final 5 seconds of the game, Larry came from the right side along the baseline to the other side of the rim, Heyman came all the way down the lane at speed and horse collared Larry with two arms--Larry didn't get an inch off the ground and didn't get the ball up to the basket. Why'd Heyman do it? It was Larry, that's why.[/BA] The two had been going at it since high school, and not only was Artie twice Larry's size, but also he played mean--everything I've ever heard or read about the guy attests to it. Artie did get suspended from playing in the ACC tournament because of that gratuitous shot he took at Larry that started the whole thing, didn't he. Facts, facts are a killer, ain't they.

[OldPhiKap]

Larry took the cheap shot? You're kidding right? Duke was up by about 30 (I think it was actually more) in the final 5 seconds of the game, Larry came from the right side along the baseline to the other side of the rim, Heyman came all the way down the lane at speed and horse collared Larry with two arms--Larry didn't get an inch off the ground and didn't get the ball up to the basket. Why'd Heyman do it? It was Larry, that's why.[/BA] The two had been going at it since high school, and not only was Artie twice Larry's size, but also he played mean--everything I've ever heard or read about the guy attests to it. Artie did get suspended from playing in the ACC tournament because of that gratuitous shot he took at Larry that started the whole thing, didn't he. Facts, facts are a killer, ain't they.

I'll stick with my version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0RroAH4vwU

[greybeard]

Brown is the basketball genius who kept LeBron and Carmelo on the bench all the way to a flameout in the Olympics. He really doesn't like to play rookies. That doesn't jibe with the Calipari model at all.

Neither of the guys you mentioned has yet to distinguish himself as a team player; Larry coaches a team game; and he was thrown under the bus by two, or was it three, key players from his Detroit Championship team who "needed to rest" rather then play for their country even while smoke was still rising in lower Manhattan. Had Chauncy, Hamilton, and I think also Big Ben been on that team, Larry would have had a chance of building some cohession, of getting his message across to the rest of players about how he wanted them to play. Besides, you're forgetting for a second how much pressure those guys were under, pressure had nothing whatever to do with the fact that it was the Olympics.

As for playing freshman, I'm not a betting man, but you name it, you're covered. No other reason, as in none, for Larry to have hired Ro. Also, Larry, 71, obviously needs to get it done, if at all, in a couple or three years, and has gone so far as insisting on SMU's commitment to giving the head job to Larry's hand-picked successor whom SMU is paying an ungodly sum, just so Larry don't get slammed as he normally does for leaving a team too early (Larry still gets a wrap for his penchant for leaving teams early, even though now nothing is too early). Finally, this is a new era, everybody goes after obvious one-and-doners, even K right? If even K does it, Larry won't? Yeah right.

[greybeard]

Brown may "intend" to go out on top, but his chances of doing so at a backwater like SMU, with zero basketball history and tradition and lots of other obstacles, is essentially zero.

Strickland was instrumental in the recruiting successes at Kentucky, but assistant Orlando Antigua has been HUGE as a recruiting force for Calipari. Whenever the kids talk about the connection they have at Kentucky, they're always talking about "Coach O."

Calipari, with another big class coming in, and now with a championship under his belt, is far from toast. He has the most successful on-the-court program in the nation going right now. By far. And it's the destination of choice for a very large percentage of the top high school players in the land.

Why, pray tell, did Calipari have a "head case" like Strickland on the bench if he wasn't a major selling card for landing the prize point guard. Why. And, who said that Strickland recruited anyone. He was a master at the point position, at playing it with glitter, and glitter sells, glitter gets the gold. Why wouldn't kids love Cal. He assembled amazing talent, embraced their aspirations on going pro after one year, and delivered many of them on time. He also provided them with the means to develop a pro level game, to be able to go high. Rod was chief among those means at point-guard U. Or, maybe Calipari hired Rod at Memphis and took him to Kentucky because Rod was a force for cohession, man could he develop guy's talents to play a team game. That must be it, and also to build character.

My bet, after this year, Calipari himself "gets" to the next level while the "getting" is good.

[77devil]

Larry took the cheap shot? You're kidding right? Duke was up by about 30 (I think it was actually more) in the final 5 seconds of the game, Larry came from the right side along the baseline to the other side of the rim, Heyman came all the way down the lane at speed and horse collared Larry with two arms--Larry didn't get an inch off the ground and didn't get the ball up to the basket. Why'd Heyman do it? It was Larry, that's why.[/BA] The two had been going at it since high school, and not only was Artie twice Larry's size, but also he played mean--everything I've ever heard or read about the guy attests to it. Artie did get suspended from playing in the ACC tournament because of that gratuitous shot he took at Larry that started the whole thing, didn't he. Facts, facts are a killer, ain't they.

First: Up by 5, not 30; just a minor difference. Second: Your description of the Heyman foul deviates dramatically from the video and the unbiased versions describing the event. Third: Heyman was officially suspended for going after UNC reserve Donnie Walsh during the melee. After reviewing the film, league officials acknowledged that Brown threw the first punch and he was suspended too. Fourth: Larry was and remains a narcissist and a truly loathsome person.

One similarity between Calipari and Brown is they leave college programs on probation and disarray.

[ChillinDuke]

Why, pray tell, did Calipari have a "head case" like Strickland on the bench if he wasn't a major selling card for landing the prize point guard. Why. And, who said that Strickland recruited anyone. He was a master at the point position, at playing it with glitter, and glitter sells, glitter gets the gold. Why wouldn't kids love Cal. He assembled amazing talent, embraced their aspirations on going pro after one year, and delivered many of them on time. He also provided them with the means to develop a pro level game, to be able to go high. Rod was chief among those means at point-guard U. Or, maybe Calipari hired Rod at Memphis and took him to Kentucky because Rod was a force for cohession, man could he develop guy's talents to play a team game. That must be it, and also to build character.

My bet, after this year, Calipari himself "gets" to the next level while the "getting" is good.

An interesting point of view, but not sure I see any reasonable link here aside from Strickland.

I'm with Tommy on this one. Cal isn't going anywhere, and Larry Brown won't have anything to do with it IMO.

- Chillin

[Turtleboy]

Neither of the guys you mentioned has yet to distinguish himself as a team player; Larry coaches a team game; and he was thrown under the bus by two, or was it three, key players from his Detroit Championship team who "needed to rest" rather then play for their country even while smoke was still rising in lower Manhattan.Well, for the sake of the argument, let's assume you are right. I suppose one plan could be to bench those guys until they figure out how to be team players. Some coaches might coach them how to be team players. I've actually seen it done. With Olympians, no less.


Besides, you're forgetting for a second how much pressure those guys were under, pressure had nothing whatever to do with the fact that it was the Olympics.
You're probably better off restricting your comments to subjects you are more familiar with. You have absolutely no idea what I do or do not remember.

[NashvilleDevil]

Calipari is talented at coaching talent, in particular at helping the-best of the best one and doners prepare for the pros and win big during their year of apprenticeship. The key, in my opinion, to his consistent success at recruiting these budding stars has been getting the top-rate point (who wouldn't want to play with a star point in a pro style game? And, I have to believe that the key to Calipari's considtent success in landing that point year in and year out has been Strickland.

Strickland has left, and he is now with a coach, a developer of talent who can run circles around Cal. The combination of Strickland's ability to mentor a star quality point, to model and teach the dazzling parts of the game, has to have been Calipari's best selling point. Why else did he have Stricland around. If the opportunity to learn the game and play for one of the best teachers the game has ever known was not enough, Larry has Strickland to land the straw; Larry will stir the drink.

Calipari might well be toast. Also, everything points to the fact that Larry intends to use this new gig to go out on top--to win it all again in his very last gig, one that it seems it was not easy for him to land. Yeap, Larry wants him another championship and then ride off into the sunset. I think everybody ought to sit up and take notice of this one.

I have read this a couple of times and I have to believe that this is an Onion like post about Larry Brown.

[Faustus]

Frankly, I for one would not surprised if Brown doesn't even last all of next season with SMU, much less finish on top of anything. I hope he brings a very accomplished assistant coach along to hold things together after he bails out on this latest of his long line of short stops. Chances are pretty good he won't stick Dallas out for very long.

[gus]

Larry took the cheap shot? You're kidding right?

Heyman's foul looks relatively tame in the video- perhaps hard, but certainly not how you describe it.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

First: Up by 5, not 30; just a minor difference. Second: Your description of the Heyman foul deviates dramatically from the video and the unbiased versions describing the event. Third: Heyman was officially suspended for going after UNC reserve Donnie Walsh during the melee. After reviewing the film, league officials acknowledged that Brown threw the first punch and he was suspended too. Fourth: Larry was and remains a narcissist and a truly loathsome person.

One similarity between Calipari and Brown is they leave college programs on probation and disarray.

To offer madd to the perspective on Artie, several of Frank McGuire's pupils went after Artie from the time they first played in the freshman college games right on through however long they remained in college. While it's true that Artie played tough and at times didn't keep his emotions under control, I wonder how many people would have handled being spit upon repeatedly in a college career or hit hard enough in a freshman game to be taken to the local hospital. Most of these antics took place out of the view of the officials and went unseen and unpunished.

Lest anyone think the dust up over Harrison Barnes going to Chapel Hill is a significant example of ill will generated while rivals recruited the same player, the ill will generated by Artie going to Duke after he first said he was going to Carolina generated volcanic overtones that ran through the Duke - Carolina rivalry in multiple encounters in both football and basketball and lasted for years.

[BD80]

With respect to Cal v LB, we know that neither will have a salary cap, neither will have much interference from "academia," and neither will have much if anything in the way of restrictions. Both will be able to accurately portray the experience to recruits as "as close to the NBA as you can get until you are drafted."

My question is: which has the higher recruiting "budget?"

[BD80]

Unlike calismarmy, when LB cleans house, he offers the ousted players a chance to finish their degrees on academic scholarship

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/328173?eref=sircrc&eref=fromSI

[greybeard]

First: Up by 5, not 30; just a minor difference. Second: Your description of the Heyman foul deviates dramatically from the video and the unbiased versions describing the event. Third: Heyman was officially suspended for going after UNC reserve Donnie Walsh during the melee. After reviewing the film, league officials acknowledged that Brown threw the first punch and he was suspended too. Fourth: Larry was and remains a narcissist and a truly loathsome person.

One similarity between Calipari and Brown is they leave college programs on probation and disarray.

This is what Artie hisownself had to say about the incident:

With about seven seconds to go, he drove for the basket and I fouled him hard. He threw the ball at me and started swinging, and I cold-cocked him. I also hit Donnie Walsh [current president of the Indiana Pacers]. All three of us were suspended. It cost Duke the national championship because we had the best team in the country.

You sure about this incident, 77devel, Sure?

[greybeard]

Larry Brown? The punk who took a cheap shot at Art Heyman and set off a court riot?

I hope he gets the same treatment Doh! got with the Smustangs.

Feh.




(Not that I hold a grudge or anything)

See the Quote from Heyman himself about the incident. Seems Artie flat out has it different. It's okay to hold a grudge. With regard to Heman, next to Barry Krammer, he was my favorite college player. Guess.

[Des Esseintes]

First: Up by 5, not 30; just a minor difference. Second: Your description of the Heyman foul deviates dramatically from the video and the unbiased versions describing the event. Third: Heyman was officially suspended for going after UNC reserve Donnie Walsh during the melee. After reviewing the film, league officials acknowledged that Brown threw the first punch and he was suspended too. Fourth: Larry was and remains a narcissist and a truly loathsome person.



This is what Artie hisownself had to say about the incident:

With about seven seconds to go, he drove for the basket and I fouled him hard. He threw the ball at me and started swinging, and I cold-cocked him. I also hit Donnie Walsh [current president of the Indiana Pacers]. All three of us were suspended. It cost Duke the national championship because we had the best team in the country.

You sure about this incident, 77devel, Sure?

I'm confused. Doesn't the Heyman quote exactly back up what 77devil said? Heyman fouled hard, Brown threw the first punch, Heyman took him out, Walsh waded in, everyone gets suspended, Brown remains loathsome. These versions are in alignment.

[OldPhiKap]

See the Quote from Heyman himself about the incident. Seems Artie flat out has it different.

Hard fouls are part of the game.

Swinging at a player is bush league.

What part of what I am saying is wrong? World Peace was right to elbow some dude in the head, because there was physical contact under the basket just prior?

[greybeard]

Frankly, I for one would not surprised if Brown doesn't even last all of next season with SMU, much less finish on top of anything. I hope he brings a very accomplished assistant coach along to hold things together after he bails out on this latest of his long line of short stops. Chances are pretty good he won't stick Dallas out for very long.

Brown has brought the former head coach of Illinois with him and made SMU commit to hire the guy as a head coach when Brown leaves.

Brown is no punk. The year after he won Detroit a Championsip, Brown took increbile heat for having been disloyal to Detroit when he spoke to the Cavilier's owner with the permission of Detroit's owner and GM. Since, as I unerstand it, an owner has to get permission from the other team's owner or no conversation takes place, and since Detroit was in the midst of another Championship run, Larry had to have understood that Detroit's owner and GM wanted him gone. But, did Brown ly down? Nope, he got out of a hospital bed and came within a hair of winning another Championship for Dumars and that punk owner. They hung Brown out to dry and take heat through his move to NY and afterwards, even though they knew what I do about what Brown endured during the rest of that season, let's just call it physical comfort that would have had me in bed, not on the road. Brown stood by his team, even though Dumars, the owner, Hamilton, Billips, and Ben had thrown him under the bus. He lead his team and said not a word against any of them. Think about that, or not.

Look, I get it about this Brown thing, and like I say, I never met the guy, not once. And, Heyman was every Jewish ballplayer's hero in the mid 60s, him and Barry Kramer. So, I really should not be making him some kind of villian. He and Larry had been going at one another, as I understand it since they were kids. Heyman was a great college basketball player, Larry went on to become a legendary, if flawed by some people's measure, coach.

I say "by some people's measure," because I don't share the view that leaving for other jobs is an unethical thing, nor do I think it stands on any different footing than waiting to get fired. Larry did not seek out winners to go to, he sought out teams he could make better and he did. That's his thing. A perfectionist who gives what he understands has taken teams where he can. People keep hiring him.

The notion that there has been any such thing as "loyalty" in the modern era, in basketball or anyother institution in this country, I think is myth. The few coaches who get to stay, I do not think that they think themselves morally better than guys who leave. I just don't. Nor do I think that they are.

The only ones who get the chance tp stay as long as they want are those who win and win and win consistently. To do that, they appear to have a gift of putting together great teams, not just of players or even assistant coaches, teams that connect and forge relationships with many different communities. That's a real selective group. Otherwise, you are meat, that's just the way it is, and has long been. And not just in basketball. The march towards disunion between institutions and those who work for them has been unfailing since the mid 60s, and now there is none of it left, anywhere. The few exceptions, those in the public eye, like K, make us believe a myth that that which we long forstill exists. Probably for most of it, it never has.

[greybeard]

I'm confused. Doesn't the Heyman quote exactly back up what 77devil said? Heyman fouled hard, Brown threw the first punch, Heyman took him out, Walsh waded in, everyone gets suspended, Brown remains loathsome. These versions are in alignment.

We're done.

[tommy]

Brown has brought the former head coach of Illinois with him and made SMU commit to hire the guy as a head coach when Brown leaves.

It's Illinois State, not Illinois.


Brown is no punk. The year after he won Detroit a Championsip, Brown took increbile heat for having been disloyal to Detroit when he spoke to the Cavilier's owner with the permission of Detroit's owner and GM. Since, as I unerstand it, an owner has to get permission from the other team's owner or no conversation takes place, and since Detroit was in the midst of another Championship run, Larry had to have understood that Detroit's owner and GM wanted him gone. But, did Brown ly down? Nope, he got out of a hospital bed and came within a hair of winning another Championship for Dumars and that punk owner.

You're really out of line here. Former Pistons owner Bill Davidson was not a "punk," and that type of ignorant name-calling of a man the caliber of Davidson is, frankly, offensive. Did you know that Bill Davidson was one of the great philanthropists this country has known? He has given untold millions to the City of Detroit, to the University of Michigan, to all sorts of Israel-related causes, to medical research institutions, and many, many other needy recipients. He was an icon in both the business and Jewish communities in Michigan, and indeed nationwide. It is estimated that his gifts, in total, exceeded $100 million.

If Bill Davidson gave Larry Brown permission to speak with Cavs owner Dan Gilbert -- also a Michigan native and resident who Davidson knew well (did you know that?) -- it was because he would never want to stand in his coach's way if the coach wanted out. Why would he want to continue to employ a coach who was gazing longingly at another job? It was an act of generosity on Davidson's part to permit Brown to seek other employment even while he was contractually obligated to Detroit. Brown was being disloyal to Davidson and the Pistons, but Davidson rose above and let the perpetual adolescent Brown try to find a new bunch of friends somewhere else. Davidson didn't "want him gone." He took the high road and indulged Brown's never-ending wanderlust. Davidson and Dumars were the adults in this story; Brown was the snotty-nosed kid who wanted to take his ball and go home.

[greybeard]

It's Illinois State, not Illinois.



You're really out of line here. Former Pistons owner Bill Davidson was not a "punk," and that type of ignorant name-calling of a man the caliber of Davidson is, frankly, offensive. Did you know that Bill Davidson was one of the great philanthropists this country has known? He has given untold millions to the City of Detroit, to the University of Michigan, to all sorts of Israel-related causes, to medical research institutions, and many, many other needy recipients. He was an icon in both the business and Jewish communities in Michigan, and indeed nationwide. It is estimated that his gifts, in total, exceeded $100 million.

If Bill Davidson gave Larry Brown permission to speak with Cavs owner Dan Gilbert -- also a Michigan native and resident who Davidson knew well (did you know that?) -- it was because he would never want to stand in his coach's way if the coach wanted out. Why would he want to continue to employ a coach who was gazing longingly at another job? It was an act of generosity on Davidson's part to permit Brown to seek other employment even while he was contractually obligated to Detroit. Brown was being disloyal to Davidson and the Pistons, but Davidson rose above and let the perpetual adolescent Brown try to find a new bunch of friends somewhere else. Davidson didn't "want him gone." He took the high road and indulged Brown's never-ending wanderlust. Davidson and Dumars were the adults in this story; Brown was the snotty-nosed kid who wanted to take his ball and go home.

Nonsense. Philanthopy is nice, but Dumars had a deal with Saunders well before the season was over, nothing else explains why Saunders, who had been unemployed since mid season and was highly sought after, was still "available" well after those josbs had been filed, in fact, after the finals were over, to just happen to be available for a deal with Detroit. More importantly, NOTHING else explains why Detroit paid Brown big bucks after he "left." Did either say anything to dispell the bashing that Brown was taking for having had a "talk" with another owner that went nowhere. There is not a shred of evidence, even, acuisation among the heads in the media that Brown had anything to do with the guy from Cleveland's asking to speak to Brown and their little chat went exactly nowhere fast. No. I'm telling you thatthat was unconscionable--what Brown had done for that owner, GM, team and the City, was nothing short of heroi, and pales Jackson's public display about coaching with a bad backoo boo. The owner behaved just as I called it, made a collosally stupid decision, Joe Glass, whose name and reputation are impecable, stated publically that Brown wanted to come back. somehow they paid him to leave. Saunders was a bust, took Brown's team to the tourament and showed no talent as a bench coach and did nothing to make anyone on that team better, in contrast to Brown, who transformed Billips from a castoff to a star, Ben who couldn't throw it in the ocean and never got the ball to try, into a more than decent point producer and great passer, and Hamilton into an AllStar. Brown could have sat the season out after that hospital stay and anyone of us would have. He deserved better, and da Owner stood by as a man whom he knew to be a hero got slammed, and then paid a man whom you say he didn't want gone, while telling the media that it was Brown who broke their contract. Dumars's ego was no smaller than Zeeks, and they both got what they deserved. Both wanted to be the "engineers" behind greatness and instead drove their franchisers into the ground. Joe Glass says that you have it all wrong, you got no one who says you are right, and the fact that they paid the guy after kicking, screaming, and dragging their feet ain't no high road. The fact that Sauders was availbe to sign seals the deal.

You don't like bump? A rose by any other name.

Philanthropy is possible only if you amass great sums. How does one do that. By being nice and fair. Aristotle said otherwise, and I'm taking Aristotle over you. "I'm done with this witness."

[CDu]

I'll stick with my version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0RroAH4vwU

Wow, I'd say that pretty definitively shows:

1. Heyman grabbing Brown (committing a hard foul)
2. Brown chucking the ball at Heyman
3. Brown throwing the first punch
4. Heyman retaliating

Gotta say this is pretty convincing evidence that greybeard's recounting of the story is wrong and yours is right.

As for Brown as a coach, he has a pretty long track record of burning out with teams, wearing thin on the players and management, and thus leaving before his contract runs out. His approach and personality are grueling and eventually it's best for everyone to move on. That doesn't make him a bad guy or a bad coach (on the contrary, he's a FANTASTIC coach). But after so many similar occurrences you have to start to think that he's at the root of the situation and not some innocent victim. It can only realistically be someone else's fault so many times.

As for Brown's chances of unseating Calipari as the top-dog in the one-and-done era, I think the only near-term threat to Calipari is him leaving on his own accord. Kentucky has way more resources, way more basketball history, and way more recent cache than SMU. Maybe if Brown chose to stick around for many years he could build a program to bump Calipari (though probably not at SMU). But given Brown's age and history of short-term stays, I don't see any way he really threatens Calipari. And I'm sure Strickland was a great recruiting aid to Calipari in getting going at Memphis. But at this point, the machine is rolling at Kentucky. Calipari has established his brand as the place to be if you're a one-and-done looking to be an NBA lottery pick. It'll take more than a year or two to change that. And I think it'd take SMU a year or two to gain cred before they could even begin to chip away at Calipari. So we're talking 3-4 years (at a minimum, in the best case scenario) for Brown/Strickland to seriously cut into Calipari's stature. And frankly I am not sure Brown has 3-4 years of coaching left.

[Dukeface88]

Aristotle said otherwise, and I'm taking Aristotle over you.

Aristotle also said men had more teeth than women, that heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects, and that an arrow fired at an angle will move in a straight line until it falls (straight down).

Learning to take other people over Aristotle was a fairly important part of the Renaissance. You're about 500-600 years out of date here.

[Channing]

Neither of the guys you mentioned has yet to distinguish himself as a team player...

Not commenting on anything else in this thread that appears to be argument for arguments sake, LBJ (although I do not like him) has, since he came to the NBA, been one of the best "team players" in the NBA. He is a great passer, and, from all accounts, enjoys getting his teammates in good positions (even to a fault). I would also argue that taking less than a max contract to be part of a team with a chance to win multiple championships is indicative of being a team player.

His inability to close a game is a different matter.

[mgtr]

Wow, I'd say that pretty definitively shows:

1. Heyman grabbing Brown (committing a hard foul)
2. Brown chucking the ball at Heyman
3. Brown throwing the first punch
4. Heyman retaliating

Gotta say this is pretty convincing evidence that greybeard's recounting of the story is wrong and yours is right.


Youtube don't lie! I guess a videotape is more relieable than the (possibly) selective memory of a participant of an event far in the past.
Plus, it all happened very fast, according to the tape.