Am I the only person who is genuinely excited about next year's team?

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Feel free to move if this is more appropriate somewhere else.

I think the team will be really exciting--a good set of veterans and rookies--with a slasher, shooters and a strong inside game. Our guards from last year will have another year under their belts. Coach K will have had another Olympic experience (he seems energized after these things). We will have come off a really bad NCAA tournament and though each team is different this team will have a chip on its shoulder. By the way, I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year. I also think the student body will be more behind the team this coming year because they will realize that they aren't guaranteed anything and that they should get behind the team. I can't wait. Heck it makes me want to get a graduate degree in some not so hard discipline so I can try out as a student manager and be there up close and personal for the glory. Then again, I think I want to stay home and my Labrador would miss me too much. :)

GO DUKE!

[Kedsy]

No you are absolutely not the only one.

[theAlaskanBear]

Hi,

Feel free to move if this is more appropriate somewhere else.

I think the team will be really exciting--a good set of veterans and rookies--with a slasher, shooters and a strong inside game. Our guards from last year will have another year under their belts. Coach K will have had another Olympic experience (he seems energized after these things). We will have come off a really bad NCAA tournament and though each team is different this team will have a chip on its shoulder. By the way, I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year. I also think the student body will be more behind the team this coming year because they will realize that they aren't guaranteed anything and that they should get behind the team. I can't wait. Heck it makes me want to get a graduate degree in some not so hard discipline so I can try out as a student manager and be there up close and personal for the glory. Then again, I think I want to stay home and my Labrador would miss me too much. :)

GO DUKE!

Duke will be VERY good next year. We will have Alex Murphy and Sulaimon to bring some length to the floor. Barring injuries it will be the best season since the 2010 Championship. Boy are we spoiled! GOOOOOOOOOOO DUKE!

[UrinalCake]

I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year.

Considering the Lehigh loss was tied for the greatest upset in NCAA tournament history going by seeding, and based on the reputations of the programs some have called it the greatest upset EVER, I'd have to say that yes it was much worse than the Arizona loss.

Phew, now that we've gotten that out of the way, I'm also excited about next season. One of the main reasons is the four seniors. Once I separate myself from the immediate, unrealistic desire to win a National Championship every single year and instead see myself as a college basketball fan who enjoys watching players and teams develop, there's a lot of satisfaction in seeing guys complete their four-year journey. The team also has a lot of really good pieces to work with and I'll enjoy seeing how Coach K uses them together. They remind me of a mid-major team who might not have the most talent but benefits from having guys who have played together for a number of years. Of course, we also have a lot of talent. I think there's a really good camaraderie among the players, and as you said expectations should be tempered, at least until we start out the season 15-0 and climb to #3 in the rankings. Then everyone will be back to expecting a Final Four :).

[1 24 90]

Duke will be VERY good next year. We will have Alex Murphy and Sulaimon to bring some length to the floor. Barring injuries it will be the best season since the 2010 Championship. Boy are we spoiled! GOOOOOOOOOOO DUKE!

Better than 32-5 in 2011 with an ACC Championship & Sweet Sixteen?

[dukedoc]

Hi,

Feel free to move if this is more appropriate somewhere else.

I think the team will be really exciting--a good set of veterans and rookies--with a slasher, shooters and a strong inside game. Our guards from last year will have another year under their belts. Coach K will have had another Olympic experience (he seems energized after these things). We will have come off a really bad NCAA tournament and though each team is different this team will have a chip on its shoulder. By the way, I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year. I also think the student body will be more behind the team this coming year because they will realize that they aren't guaranteed anything and that they should get behind the team. I can't wait. Heck it makes me want to get a graduate degree in some not so hard discipline so I can try out as a student manager and be there up close and personal for the glory. Then again, I think I want to stay home and my Labrador would miss me too much. :)

GO DUKE!

I am very excited. There are many reasons. Our players will be a year older and wiser. Two great players will be coming off of a redshirt year. Fantastic freshman Sheed will be coming in. UNC will have fewer NBA lottery types and State will be quite a bit better, offering some tantalizing parity throughout the Triangle. Lots of reasons to be very excited. The most important reason though is that a group of young student athletes are going to give their hearts and souls for the sake of a common goal. Watching that next season, even if, God forbid, we have another Lehighesque ending, will make it worth it.

[nocilla]

I am also very excited. I think Murphy replacing Rivers is an upgrade in itself. Not that I expect Murphy to match Rivers talent wise, but just what it means for team dynamics. With Rivers we were forced to play small on the perimeter, while Murphy playing the SF role will bring us back to a more traditional lineup. It helps with team rebounding and team defense having a true SF. Then you add in the fact that everyone else has another year of experience and growth to add to their games. And then Sulaimon is added to the mix as well. We will have a very dynamic offense with a good post scorer in Mason, great shooters on the perimter, and a couple mid range guys in Kelly and Murphy. I am looking forward to another great season.

[DukeWarhead]

Hi,

Feel free to move if this is more appropriate somewhere else.

I think the team will be really exciting--a good set of veterans and rookies--with a slasher, shooters and a strong inside game. Our guards from last year will have another year under their belts. Coach K will have had another Olympic experience (he seems energized after these things). We will have come off a really bad NCAA tournament and though each team is different this team will have a chip on its shoulder. By the way, I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year. I also think the student body will be more behind the team this coming year because they will realize that they aren't guaranteed anything and that they should get behind the team. I can't wait. Heck it makes me want to get a graduate degree in some not so hard discipline so I can try out as a student manager and be there up close and personal for the glory. Then again, I think I want to stay home and my Labrador would miss me too much. :)

GO DUKE!

I would love to be really excited about next season, but like many folks on here, I am not sure what to expect of the team when it takes the floor next season. Will Alex come out gang-busters and be an offensive force? Will Andre have solved the random disappearing act? Can Mason carry the load? How much of a learning curve will Marshall have and how much can he contribute?
I'm an optomist, so I always think that Duke is going to live up to its potential. That explains my bewildered dissappointment when Duke sometimes falls short of what I automatically assume it is capable of each year. (i.e. a Final Four) Maybe we get the best case scenario (2010 - totally playing to potential and exceeding expectations) or worst case (2012 and 2007 - not always playing with confidence and no real leadership; failing to figure out the character of the team).
I hope Rasheed will be as good as I think he will be. Alex, too.
Regardless, as long as Duke plays hard, together (no attitude, no bickering), gives it their all on defense and has confidence in themselves, then I will cheer like a crazy man. I think they will, so yes, I guess I'm excited. But it's some seriously cautious optomism.

....and just beat UNC twice. That's all I really want...

[MCFinARL]

Hi,

Feel free to move if this is more appropriate somewhere else.

I think the team will be really exciting--a good set of veterans and rookies--with a slasher, shooters and a strong inside game. Our guards from last year will have another year under their belts. Coach K will have had another Olympic experience (he seems energized after these things). We will have come off a really bad NCAA tournament and though each team is different this team will have a chip on its shoulder. By the way, I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year. I also think the student body will be more behind the team this coming year because they will realize that they aren't guaranteed anything and that they should get behind the team. I can't wait. Heck it makes me want to get a graduate degree in some not so hard discipline so I can try out as a student manager and be there up close and personal for the glory. Then again, I think I want to stay home and my Labrador would miss me too much. :)

GO DUKE!

I agree that the Lehigh loss was much worse than the Arizona loss (though I found the Arizona loss more painful because I had higher hopes for that team to make the Final Four than I did for this year's team--and it was not the way I wanted to see Nolan Smith's last game play out). But I guess it just goes to show this has felt like a very long year, because the Arizona loss was actually last year. :)

As for next year, there is certainly a lot to look forward to--finding out what Alex Murphy and Marshall Plumlee can bring to the mix, seeing how well Quinn Cook can develop over the summer, seeing whether the long years our four seniors have spent together will translate into stronger leadership, better teamwork and good anticipation of each other's moves on the court, finding out whether Rasheed Sulaimon is ready to contribute significantly as a freshman, and I'm sure I could think of more.

But I'm still feeling a little bruised after this season, so I think I will try to keep my excitement under control until at least August. ;)

[78Devil]

Count me in the camp of still being too bruised and embarassed to get excited.

Having said that, I sincerely hope that the team and coaching staff don't feel the way I do. I recognize that if they can get off the floor and get in the ring again, then we fans need to do so as well. So I will get there at some point.

Part of my malaise is this whole recruiting thing. It doesn't mean that we won't be good next year -- only that I feel like we are being painted (by our competitors, the press and sometimes ourselves -- and sometimes with real merit) as being on the defensive in recruiting. And that tempers any excitement I have.

I am also wondering whether/how/when we will send the assistant coach chicks out of the next into the coaching world. I recognize we will miss them initially, but for the long term health of the program I think it is good. And there seems to be no movement there at all....

[Devilsfan]

All twenty of you are true optimists. I say after next year, sadly, I feel we will no longer feel entitled. We will be elitists with bruised egos. I hope the staff gets the same feeling and brings us another Grant, Elton, JJ, "Whose your Daddy" and JWill types in a class so we can see how Kentucky fans felt this year and how we felt in three of our four banner years.

[Lar77]

I'm looking forward next year to a number of things:


We'll get to Duke in a moment.

The ACC should be a better conference next year and not just Duke, UNC, and everyone else (not intended as an insult to FSU, which was a good team this year). State being stronger will make the ACC Tournament more enjoyable to watch. And it is doubtful UNC is winning any championships so we won't have to hear that drivel.

Getting to a new season will stop the talk about this past season. Really, aren't we tired of talking about Lehigh (with McCollom returning, will they be immune to "The Curse?")

Now for Duke:

Alex Murphy has been billed here as a Kyle Singler type of player. Tough act to follow, and I hope Alex has his own identity, but Singler always gave you a sense that you were in every game.

We see Marshall Plumlee with a year of strength building.

We see Rashad Sulaiman. Based on what we've heard, nuff said.

Mason stayed here rather than go pro, because presumably he did not feel ready. Maybe Duke will get better at getting him the ball and he will get better at finishing.

Ryan Kelly has improved every year and has proven to be a smart player and leader on the court. Is he a model Euro forward - stretch forward, whatever - we'll see. Dirk Nowitzki has a championship now that he learned how to maximize his talents.

Will our other guards continue to improve? Seth Curry was a better player last year than the year before; Quinn Cook was good at times, not good at others, but should be better with another year of health; Tyler Thornton has heart and comparisons have been drawn to Wojo, who made a big jump in his Junior year.

Josh Hairston would come in at times and pick the team up. Other times he was ineffective. When he was recruited, several on these boards said he was someone who would start to show his potential by Junior year.

Andre Dawkins has been at times exhilarating and at other times frustrating. This was the guy that boosted us towards the 2010 championship with two key shots. This was the guy who came up big against Michigan State. This has also been a guy who has done little at times. No matter what, this is a guy who with one shot can bring Cameron to a higher level of roar.

If you're a fan, why wouldn't you look forward to next year?

[scottdude8]

I personally see a lot of similarities between this year and the 2010 championship team—not that we'll be that good by any stretch, just that we can have a great year. Think about it—in 2009 we had a team that started off hot but faltered at the end. We had a lot of role players that were adjusting to their new roles as starters/stars (Nolan, Scheyer, the bigs) while a dominant scoring force that didn't quite fit in with the rest of the offense (G) dominated. Then that dominant offensive force left in a move that should've decimated us, but left us with a veteran returning team that coalesced into a winner. I could very easily see that happening this year, with Austin being G, Seth stepping up into a Scheyer-like role, and Ryan and Mason finally adapting to being "the" guys (much like Nolan and Kyle did).

I've been thinking this for a while. While we may not be explosive, I think we don't lose as much with Austin as people think, and it might actually be addition by subtraction. We'll have a team most likely starting at least 3 seniors with another coming off the bench, two more juniors in the rotation, and a guy in Murphy who could change the shape of the team. I'm optimistic.

[Li_Duke]

I'm excited. For 3-4 years, I've been waiting and speculating on what type of college players Mason, Ryan, Andre, and Curry will eventually develop into. This is it - their final year! We're finally going to know!

[Jim3k]

All twenty of you are true optimists. I say after next year, sadly, I feel we will no longer feel entitled. We will be elitists with bruised egos. I hope the staff gets the same feeling and brings us another Grant, Elton, JJ, "Whose your Daddy" and JWill types in a class so we can see how Kentucky fans felt this year and how we felt in three of our four banner years.

Wow. What a strange thing to be saying. Twenty optimists... entitled... elitists... bruised egos... need superstar so we can be ecstatic...

I don't think you reflect the basic understanding of being a Duke fan. But I'm not certain if you understand the entire process. After over 50 years at this, even with four championships, I doubt many of us oldtimers feel entitled. Nor are we elitists--lucky maybe. Bruised egos? Not so much, even if losses are painful and disappoint; but we understand that's the usual ending. Superstar required? Most of us would agree that would be nice. More likely we would prefer a 4-year star like Singler. But not so we can be ecstatic. Most of us enjoy the process even if the end doesn't always turn out well; ecstasy is not the goal. Success is.

I hope you rethink who Duke fans and alums are and what our actual values consist of. Twenty optimists? I'd say we are all optimists, always. (Even those who say they have their doubts.)

[Rich]

I personally see a lot of similarities between this year and the 2010 championship team—not that we'll be that good by any stretch, just that we can have a great year. Think about it—in 2009 we had a team that started off hot but faltered at the end. We had a lot of role players that were adjusting to their new roles as starters/stars (Nolan, Scheyer, the bigs) while a dominant scoring force that didn't quite fit in with the rest of the offense (G) dominated. Then that dominant offensive force left in a move that should've decimated us, but left us with a veteran returning team that coalesced into a winner. I could very easily see that happening this year, with Austin being G, Seth stepping up into a Scheyer-like role, and Ryan and Mason finally adapting to being "the" guys (much like Nolan and Kyle did).

Another similarity - the perceived "devestating" off-season loss of a player that was supposed to be an integral piece of the following year's team (Elliott Williams = Michael Gbinje). We can only hope the results are similar.

[sduke1986]

I 2nd that notion I am PUMPED!!!!! I think with this year of experience and some good depth the sky is the limit for this team. The big improvement will need to come defensivly of course, but I think we have a few guys ready to have potentially monster years. GO DUKE!!!!

[jv001]

I am also very excited. I think Murphy replacing Rivers is an upgrade in itself. Not that I expect Murphy to match Rivers talent wise, but just what it means for team dynamics. With Rivers we were forced to play small on the perimeter, while Murphy playing the SF role will bring us back to a more traditional lineup. It helps with team rebounding and team defense having a true SF. Then you add in the fact that everyone else has another year of experience and growth to add to their games. And then Sulaimon is added to the mix as well. We will have a very dynamic offense with a good post scorer in Mason, great shooters on the perimter, and a couple mid range guys in Kelly and Murphy. I am looking forward to another great season.

Austin was not the reason we were small on the perimeter. In fact, Austin was 6"4" (SG) playing the point on offense. What made us small on the perimeter, was Tyler, Seth and Andre. I certainly hope we are not in that same situation this year. We have Alex and Sheed that bring more height and length to the perimeter. Marshall at 7"0 gives us more height off the bench. I look for Ryan and Mason to be in the starting rotation from the beginning. Our season will be good or not so good with how we play defense and that's where my main concerns come. Will we be a better defensive team? GoDuke!w

[revmel53]

Wow. What a strange thing to be saying. Twenty optimists... entitled... elitists... bruised egos... need superstar so we can be ecstatic...

I don't think you reflect the basic understanding of being a Duke fan. But I'm not certain if you understand the entire process. After over 50 years at this, even with four championships, I doubt many of us oldtimers feel entitled. Nor are we elitists--lucky maybe. Bruised egos? Not so much, even if losses are painful and disappoint; but we understand that's the usual ending. Superstar required? Most of us would agree that would be nice. More likely we would prefer a 4-year star like Singler. But not so we can be ecstatic. Most of us enjoy the process even if the end doesn't always turn out well; ecstasy is not the goal. Success is.

I hope you rethink who Duke fans and alums are and what our actual values consist of. Twenty optimists? I'd say we are all optimists, always. (Even those who say they have their doubts.)



I'm among those who believe that next year will be a better Duke year than 2011-12. Austin will be an incredible talent. He had a good year for us. But, without "the shot," I don't believe he would be heading off to the NBA. Already it doesn't seem that he will be a high first round pick. But without "the shot" (wonderful as it may have been), not too many people would have been talking about him nationally. As I said, he is a great talent... but more often than not, our offense turned into one-on-one basketball, with Austin setting up our big men (including Mason) to set picks for him. And often, after coming off of those picks he stumbled into the lane and lost the ball. I truly have no doubt that Duke team basketball, using all players - to dribble, shoot, and (mainly) pass to others who have better, easier shots - is ultimately better than whatever we want to call the basketball we played this year. I'm a realist, not a super optimist... And that's how I see it...

[KenTankerous]

I'm a johnny-come-lately to the Blue Devil basketball cheering section but I am very much looking forward to the games next year's squad will throw down. More so even than the past two years as it is no secret that I shared no entusiasm for Duke's flirtation with one and done phenoms.

Interseting story - I live about four blocks from the UofLouisville campus. The night of the final four match up between UofK and the Cards, some friends from Detroit traveling to Nashville were coming through town and needed a meal, some beer and respite. We met at a local pub. I wore my Duke hat. The owner noticed and said, "Well, they didn't do much this year."

"Yeah," I said, "just graduated most of their atheletes with meaningful degrees."

My friends, being fans of education and application, applauded greatly.

[NashvilleDevil]

how we felt in three of our four banner years.

What does this even mean?

[loldevilz]

I'm definitely excited. I think this will easily be the best Duke team since 2010 (that is after Kyrie went down). I'm excited for Kelly and Mason playing together. I'm excited about athletic forwards Hairston and Kelly. Most of all I'm excited for Quinn Cook to become the next elite Duke point guard. Of couse this could all come crashing down if Coach K decides to roll out a lineup like this:

Thornton
Curry
Dawkins
Kelly
Mason

[SilkyJ]

^HAHA. I'm not sure what to laugh at hardest. This?



I'm excited for Kelly and Mason playing together...Of couse this could all come crashing down if Coach K decides to roll out a lineup like this:

Thornton
Curry
Dawkins
Kelly
Mason

Or This?


I'm excited about athletic forwards Hairston and Kelly.

I did like the part about Quinn Cook tho :)

[SoCalDukeFan]

On one hand I am excited about next year, on the other I am worried.

I am excited to see Rasheed, Alex, and Marshall. I am excited about having senior leadership. I am excited because I think we can play much more as a team than last year.

I am worried because neither Tyler nor Quinn has shown himself to be a great college level point guard. I am worried because I don't see a star who can carry the team. I am worried because we were weak defensively last year and am not sure where the improvement will come from.

The potential is there.

SoCal

[Steven43]

Hi,

Feel free to move if this is more appropriate somewhere else.

I think the team will be really exciting--a good set of veterans and rookies--with a slasher, shooters and a strong inside game. Our guards from last year will have another year under their belts. Coach K will have had another Olympic experience (he seems energized after these things). We will have come off a really bad NCAA tournament and though each team is different this team will have a chip on its shoulder. By the way, I don't consider losing to Arizona as we did a couple of years ago nearly as bad as losing to Lehigh in the first round in Greensboro this year. I also think the student body will be more behind the team this coming year because they will realize that they aren't guaranteed anything and that they should get behind the team. I can't wait. Heck it makes me want to get a graduate degree in some not so hard discipline so I can try out as a student manager and be there up close and personal for the glory. Then again, I think I want to stay home and my Labrador would miss me too much. :)

GO DUKE!

I'll become excited if I see some major improvement from the point guard position, one or two players besides Mason show that will be able to consistently rebound on both ends, a player or two (again, besides Mason) shows promise of being a real threat to consistently score while attacking the basket, and our defense shows dramatic signs of improvement. If most or all of these things don't appear to be happening it's going to be a difficult to get really excited about the season, because that will mean that we're likely going to have a similar outcome to this season--one-(or maybe two)-and-done in the NCAAs. And the way the season played out--losing to Florida State in a poorly-played game followed by playing mostly uninspired ball while becoming one of the only number two seeds to EVER lose to a 15th seed--was not very exciting as a Duke fan. Optimism is great and all, but I prefer to see some strong evidence for optimism before having it.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

It seemed that last year's team did well on Offense until the last month or so of the season and then when Kelly went down it really got bad. So the chemistry to do well on offense was there at some point. I also think that people are awfully hard on Dre, it seems that he has had some issues at home (such as deaths in the family). I think that has to affect a kid in many ways.

I had the impression that a lot of the defensive issues had to do with incorrect switches, not talking enough, and just plain not moving feet enough (isn't it funny that many sports have that same issue--tennis, hockey, football...I am sure I could think of more, when the feet stop moving defense/offense becomes really hard). Kendall Marshall could be seen moving his middle fingers to his thumb on both hands, I think that was a sign to his Tar Heels to talk more. I didn't see a single Blue Devil signal to the rest of the team to talk more. Maybe they had a silent or hidden signal for that. (Then again, maybe they team was really good at throwing their voices, so what looked like silence was really out and out yelling. ;) )


GO DUKE!

[NSDukeFan]

I'll become excited if I see some major improvement from the point guard position, one or two players besides Mason show that will be able to consistently rebound on both ends, a player or two (again, besides Mason) shows promise of being a real threat to consistently score while attacking the basket, and our defense shows dramatic signs of improvement. If most or all of these things don't appear to be happening it's going to be a difficult to get really excited about the season, because that will mean that we're likely going to have a similar outcome to this season--one-(or maybe two)-and-done in the NCAAs. And the way the season played out--losing to Florida State in a poorly-played game followed by playing mostly uninspired ball while becoming one of the only number two seeds to EVER lose to a 15th seed--was not very exciting as a Duke fan. Optimism is great and all, but I prefer to see some strong evidence for optimism before having it.

Maybe because I didn't go to Duke or have never lived in Carolina I don't have a similar level of angst as some. I guess I am just a different type of fan from those that need something to happen to get excited for next year. Duke basketball is one of my favorite diversions in life. I look forward to the season every year. I look forward to coming to DBR to discuss the upcoming season and what is happening during the season. I get very excited when the games start. I like the way coach K changes the style of play to try to best fit the team's personnel. I enjoy watching players' improvement from year to year. I am very interested to see how the players will have improved from this year. I am excited to watch four players' senior seasons and as always I hope they have years to remember. I am excited to see three new players try to figure out how they can best contribute to Duke basketball. I enjoy watching Duke Blue Planet videos so I can feel like I know these student athletes a little bit better. I like that there have been a lot of great kids go through the program in the last few years that I have gotten to watch and they have been excellent representatives of Duke University and college basketball in general. If they lose a basketball game that some people think they should have won, I am still going to be very excited for the next one and hoping to see improvement along the way. I will be hoping to see the team get better every game and will be optimistic that the team will do so until the last game they play whenever it may be. As I have the last few years (when I have started to watch almost every game as I have been able to with this neat internet thing) I will be very excited to watch almost all the games and will enjoy it all, even if and when Duke does not meet my (or others') expectations. I am a Duke fan because I love basketball and really enjoy following the team. I am on the next level of optimism just down from Ozzie and gumbomoop, I believe. Yes, I am very excited for next season to start and feel fortunate that this is somehow likely to be a top 10 team again, because of the great work the staff has put in on the recruiting trail, the efforts of the players who have bought into the system and the teaching the staff has done over the years. Go Duke! /rant

Rant certainly not aimed at the above post as there have certainly been many who have stated that something has to happen before they will be excited for next year and may have more at stake in the outcome of the games than I do.

[Chris Randolph]

I'm excited to see the improvements the players make. I think next year's team could have some guys who make big leaps in becoming better all around players (skill, leadership, etc.) A lot of time til then and until it matters most so I'm not going to get too worked up about. Plus, I don't "live and die" by what a bunch of 18-21 year olds do on a basketball court, haha.

[mo.st.dukie]

I am worried because neither Tyler nor Quinn has shown himself to be a great college level point guard. I am worried because I don't see a star who can carry the team. I am worried because we were weak defensively last year and am not sure where the improvement will come from.


SoCal

Improvement doesn't always come from just the addition of new players. It can help, sure, but a lot of the time improvement comes from players gaining experience and then carrying that into offseason training and into the next season. Remember the 2009 season for Duke and the following offseason? All the talking points were fairly similar: Duke can't stop dribble penetration, if Duke plays a team of quick guards they'll get destroyed just like they did agains Villanova, Duke has no interior presence, the Plumlee's better be the starters because Zoubek and Thomas were a waste of scholarships, Duke has no real PG as Scheyer does his best but he's better suited off-ball, Duke struggles with long athletic teams, on and on and on.

At that time that group of players we had returning for that season were viewed as soft and unathletic as evidenced by the beatdown suffered at the hands of Villanova. While Duke added Andre, Ryan, and Mason (who EVERYBODY insisted must be the starter for Duke to be any good come March) it was actually the much-maligned returnees that made the improvements on so many of the weaknesses they had the season before. Will this group do the same? Who knows, but it's been proven time and time again that players and a team as a whole can get significantly better going from one year to the next without adding any new stud players.

[loldevilz]

^HAHA. I'm not sure what to laugh at hardest. This?



Or This?



I did like the part about Quinn Cook tho :)

I didn't mean that I'd be disappointed to see Kelly and Mason start. I just assume they will start no matter what. Thornton, Curry, and Dawkins could easily be our backcourt considering K's preference for seniority and experience. If that happens I will be immensely disappointed and perhaps lose some faith in K.

[gumbomoop]

It's pretty hard not to just laugh at all the optimistic horse pooey being spread throughout this thread. Why? Let me count the ways:

Mason - regressing, as a number of experts have pointed out
Ryan - injury-prone his whole career at Duke, IIRC
Josh - never supports his teammates, bad influence
Marshall - another Plumlee? Another one? C'mon, enough already
Alex - another Singler, another Dunleavy? Right..... more like another Barnes
Andre - can't shoot, never could, needs to change his form, totally
Rasheed - overrated, disappeared in all-star games. Why did K give up on Tokoto?
Seth - bad genes, has never acclimated to ACC-level competition, big mistake leaving Liberty
Tyler - no clutch shot, no leadership, no defense, no spirit, no smile
Quinn - shoot-first PG, who needs that?
Todd - might be Duke's best big man, but he's in K's doghouse, forever, I guess
K - maybe the Magic will hire him this summer

Optimism, schmoptimism, you nutters need to get real. Duke might - might - finish ahead of GT or BC next season, but 7 W's probably the ceiling in ACC. We're gonna regret making fun of Carolina for its NIT runner-up banner. At least they made the NIT. Duke won't even make the CBI or the CIT.

Long, long season. Take it to the bank.

[Kewlswim]

It's pretty hard not to just laugh at all the optimistic horse pooey being spread throughout this thread. Why? Let me count the ways:

Mason - regressing, as a number of experts have pointed out
Ryan - injury-prone his whole career at Duke, IIRC
Josh - never supports his teammates, bad influence
Marshall - another Plumlee? Another one? C'mon, enough already
Alex - another Singler, another Dunleavy? Right..... more like another Barnes
Andre - can't shoot, never could, needs to change his form, totally
Rasheed - overrated, disappeared in all-star games. Why did K give up on Tokoto?
Seth - bad genes, has never acclimated to ACC-level competition, big mistake leaving Liberty
Tyler - no clutch shot, no leadership, no defense, no spirit, no smile
Quinn - shoot-first PG, who needs that?
Todd - might be Duke's best big man, but he's in K's doghouse, forever, I guess
K - maybe the Magic will hire him this summer

Optimism, schmoptimism, you nutters need to get real. Duke might - might - finish ahead of GT or BC next season, but 7 W's probably the ceiling in ACC. We're gonna regret making fun of Carolina for its NIT runner-up banner. At least they made the NIT. Duke won't even make the CBI or the CIT.

Long, long season. Take it to the bank.

Hi,

If this was supposed to be funny, it wasn't.

GO DUKE!

[gumbomoop]

Hi,

If this was supposed to be funny, it wasn't.

GO DUKE!

In an important sense, I agree with you. As the old saw has it, there’s no accounting for taste.

As to the substance of this and many other threads, hard to comprehend how some posters see the Duke glass 90% full, while others see it more like 40%.

Me, I’m a 99%-er, where the Devils are concerned, at least.

[Jderf]

I would love to be really excited about next season, but like many folks on here, I am not sure what to expect of the team when it takes the floor next season. Will Alex come out gang-busters and be an offensive force? Will Andre have solved the random disappearing act? Can Mason carry the load? How much of a learning curve will Marshall have and how much can he contribute?
I'm an optomist, so I always think that Duke is going to live up to its potential. That explains my bewildered dissappointment when Duke sometimes falls short of what I automatically assume it is capable of each year. (i.e. a Final Four) Maybe we get the best case scenario (2010 - totally playing to potential and exceeding expectations) or worst case (2012 and 2007 - not always playing with confidence and no real leadership; failing to figure out the character of the team).
I hope Rasheed will be as good as I think he will be. Alex, too.
Regardless, as long as Duke plays hard, together (no attitude, no bickering), gives it their all on defense and has confidence in themselves, then I will cheer like a crazy man. I think they will, so yes, I guess I'm excited. But it's some seriously cautious optomism.

....and just beat UNC twice. That's all I really want...

Too many unknowns to get too excited? What!? I guess we have very different ways of enjoying a season. For me, finding out the answers to all my burning questions is exactly what makes an upcoming season so exciting in the first place. I can't wait to see who steps up and surprises us. It's gonna be fun to watch.

[CDu]

Too many unknowns to get too excited? What!? For me, finding out the answers to all my burning questions is exactly what makes an upcoming season so exciting in the first place. I can't wait to see who steps up and surprises us. It's gonna be fun to watch.

Exactly. Every season should be a cause for genuine excitement. Next year is no different. But regardless of that, I think the team will be very good. There's the potential to be special (if some guys make the jumps that they seem capable of making), but at the worst we'll be very good.

[dukedoc]

I'll become excited if I see some major improvement from the point guard position, one or two players besides Mason show that will be able to consistently rebound on both ends, a player or two (again, besides Mason) shows promise of being a real threat to consistently score while attacking the basket, and our defense shows dramatic signs of improvement. If most or all of these things don't appear to be happening it's going to be a difficult to get really excited about the season, because that will mean that we're likely going to have a similar outcome to this season--one-(or maybe two)-and-done in the NCAAs. And the way the season played out--losing to Florida State in a poorly-played game followed by playing mostly uninspired ball while becoming one of the only number two seeds to EVER lose to a 15th seed--was not very exciting as a Duke fan. Optimism is great and all, but I prefer to see some strong evidence for optimism before having it.

Let's do a thought experiment. What if none of those things happen? Will you watch any games? Will you wear any of your Duke t-shirts? Will you take the season off? What if those things don't happen for 2, 3, or even 4 years. Will you switch to rooting for another team? There's a name for fans that only show up when the weather report has sunny skies with no chance of rain.

I don't think that's you. At least, I hope not. The point is, although dominant seasons with long runs into the tournament are sweet exclamation points in the life of a sports fan, there should be a firm foundation underneath it all that does not ebb and flow with the success of the team, but rather remains steady despite any difficulties encountered. That firm foundation shows up simply because our guys do. Simply because our coach does. Simply because we are Duke. That firm foundation (however difficult it is for each of us to maintain) is why we earn the privilege of relishing in the victories our team brings home. If we won't stand with them in defeat, we have no right to crash their victory parties.

I understand your sentiment and your frustration, but I would encourage us all to constantly remember the core reasons why we love Duke. A tightly run system. Generally well-rounded true student-athletes. Young men trying their hardest and improving before our eyes, albeit sometimes slowly. A passionate fan base. Senior nights. The most intense rivalry in college sports. Etc, etc, etc. None of those things come and go. They're always there. Those are great reasons to show up. The prospect of exclamation points is nice, but shouldn't be a prerequisite for mustering at least some modicum of excitement simply because our guys will be back on the court.

[Steven43]

Let's do a thought experiment. What if none of those things happen? Will you watch any games? Will you wear any of your Duke t-shirts? Will you take the season off? What if those things don't happen for 2, 3, or even 4 years. Will you switch to rooting for another team? There's a name for fans that only show up when the weather report has sunny skies with no chance of rain.

I don't think that's you. At least, I hope not. The point is, although dominant seasons with long runs into the tournament are sweet exclamation points in the life of a sports fan, there should be a firm foundation underneath it all that does not ebb and flow with the success of the team, but rather remains steady despite any difficulties encountered. That firm foundation shows up simply because our guys do. Simply because our coach does. Simply because we are Duke. That firm foundation (however difficult it is for each of us to maintain) is why we earn the privilege of relishing in the victories our team brings home. If we won't stand with them in defeat, we have no right to crash their victory parties.

I understand your sentiment and your frustration, but I would encourage us all to constantly remember the core reasons why we love Duke. A tightly run system. Generally well-rounded true student-athletes. Young men trying their hardest and improving before our eyes, albeit sometimes slowly. A passionate fan base. Senior nights. The most intense rivalry in college sports. Etc, etc, etc. None of those things come and go. They're always there. Those are great reasons to show up. The prospect of exclamation points is nice, but shouldn't be a prerequisite for mustering at least some modicum of excitement simply because our guys will be back on the court.

I agree with basically everything you wrote. Duke has been the school I have rooted for since 1978. I don't expect that to ever change unless Duke starts changing, and I think that is unlikely. There are so many things I love about Duke University and Duke basketball. I love the fact that Duke basketball has the highest of standards--striving for on-court excellence combined with adherence to high standards academically and morally. What more could you ask for as a fan? 95% or more of Duke basketball players are excellent citizens while at the university and beyond. That is an extraordinarily high rate of success, probably unmatched for a school that plays at such an elite level. I love that Duke is known far and wide for never giving up and always giving maximum effort no matter the situation or opponent. I love that Duke basketball players are such sterling examples of what I wish all student-athletes would strive to be as evidenced by their deference to referees (almost never strenuously arguing a call), respect for their opponents (almost never getting into fights), respect for the fans (almost never bad-mouthing opposing fans and very often saying positive things about Duke fans), deference to their coaches, respect for themselves (not covering themselves with tattoos and generally grooming and carrying themselves the way I think most parents would like their own children to do), and respect for the tradition of what it means to wear D-U-K-E on the front of their jersey. If my son ends up being a high-level basketball player and a good student my personal dream for him as far as college goes (though I wouldn't push it on him) would begin and end with Duke University. For a better example of what I am rather ineloquently trying to say read the following story http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/04/in-defense-of-duke/38379/

To sum up, I will NEVER stop rooting for Duke basketball. The only thing that waxes and wanes to a degree is my enthusiasm for the success I expect the team to have on the court. And right now I see a lot of reasons to have real concerns, and that tempers my level of excitement. That does not make me a fair-weather fan. It just means that I am being true to my current assessment of the team.

[dukedoc]

To sum up, I will NEVER stop rooting for Duke basketball. The only thing that waxes and wanes to a degree is my enthusiasm for the success I expect the team to have on the court. And right now I see a lot of reasons to have real concerns, and that tempers my level of excitement. That does not make me a fair-weather fan. It just means that I am being true to my current assessment of the team.

Fair enough. Again, I do not believe you to be a fair weather fan. I would never make a judgment about somebody without knowing him/her personally over a long period of time.

We are fortunate to be Duke fans. There are very special things we can relish every single year that do not wax or wane appreciably. Also, despite whatever limitations we'll have next year, I expect decent parity among the three Triangle teams, which should make for some nice matchups. If UNC had their stock of lottery picks returning to school again I might be a bit more ornery about it all.

Thanks for the link to that article.

[Big Pappa]

Hi,



Hi,



Hi,


Hey, how are you doing?

Consider this a formal return greeting from myself and the rest of the DBR posters. You no longer have to start all your posts with "Hi"

[Kedsy]

...or worst case (2012 and 2007...

If Duke's 2012 season is your "worst case" scenario, you need to re-think your expectations.

[Jderf]

... not covering themselves with tattoos...

I agree with 99% of your post, but I just have a very, very minor quibble here. I may not have any tatttoos myself, but a number of our players have them, and as far as I'm aware they have all been very high-character people. There's nothing about having a tattoo in itself which should be looked down upon, at Duke or elsewhere.

Offensive tattoos would be a whole 'nother story, but if something (an event, person, quote, or whatever) is very important to someone, there is nothing wrong in expressing that.

[Mr.Analogy]

It's pretty hard not to just laugh at all the optimistic horse pooey being spread throughout this thread. Why? Let me count the ways:

Mason - regressing, as a number of experts have pointed out
Ryan - injury-prone his whole career at Duke, IIRC
Josh - never supports his teammates, bad influence
Marshall - another Plumlee? Another one? C'mon, enough already
Alex - another Singler, another Dunleavy? Right..... more like another Barnes
Andre - can't shoot, never could, needs to change his form, totally
Rasheed - overrated, disappeared in all-star games. Why did K give up on Tokoto?
Seth - bad genes, has never acclimated to ACC-level competition, big mistake leaving Liberty
Tyler - no clutch shot, no leadership, no defense, no spirit, no smile
Quinn - shoot-first PG, who needs that?
Todd - might be Duke's best big man, but he's in K's doghouse, forever, I guess
K - maybe the Magic will hire him this summer

Optimism, schmoptimism, you nutters need to get real. Duke might - might - finish ahead of GT or BC next season, but 7 W's probably the ceiling in ACC. We're gonna regret making fun of Carolina for its NIT runner-up banner. At least they made the NIT. Duke won't even make the CBI or the CIT.

Long, long season. Take it to the bank.

This is the most honest picture painted of this squad, minus Josh supporting his team mates which he does and does a lot. This team has potential but all the optimisim is quiet irrational really. This past season should have shown us 4 things. 1. The plumlees aren't very effective 2. Dawkins/Curry aren't very reliable, ever, nor is Kelly 3. Cook/Thorton/Hairston are mediocre at best and 4. The Duke coaching staff needs new blood, keep Nate but wojo/collins need to go, get some fresh talent on staff. If you doubt any of this then go watch a replay of the Lehigh game, end of story.

[CDu]

This is the most honest picture painted of this squad, minus Josh supporting his team mates which he does and does a lot. This team has potential but all the optimisim is quiet irrational really. This past season should have shown us 4 things. 1. The plumlees aren't very effective 2. Dawkins/Curry aren't very reliable, ever, nor is Kelly 3. Cook/Thorton/Hairston are mediocre at best and 4. The Duke coaching staff needs new blood, keep Nate but wojo/collins need to go, get some fresh talent on staff. If you doubt any of this then go watch a replay of the Lehigh game, end of story.

You clearly missed the sarcasm in that post. None of that was at all intended to be honest. I apologize if I also missed the sarcasm in your post (though it doesn't come across as sarcastic).

[SMO]

This is the most honest picture painted of this squad, minus Josh supporting his team mates which he does and does a lot. This team has potential but all the optimisim is quiet irrational really. This past season should have shown us 4 things. 1. The plumlees aren't very effective 2. Dawkins/Curry aren't very reliable, ever, nor is Kelly 3. Cook/Thorton/Hairston are mediocre at best and 4. The Duke coaching staff needs new blood, keep Nate but wojo/collins need to go, get some fresh talent on staff. If you doubt any of this then go watch a replay of the Lehigh game, end of story.

I honestly can't tell if posts like these are parody or not.

[Jderf]

This is the most honest picture painted of this squad, minus Josh supporting his team mates which he does and does a lot. This team has potential but all the optimisim is quiet irrational really. This past season should have shown us 4 things. 1. The plumlees aren't very effective 2. Dawkins/Curry aren't very reliable, ever, nor is Kelly 3. Cook/Thorton/Hairston are mediocre at best and 4. The Duke coaching staff needs new blood, keep Nate but wojo/collins need to go, get some fresh talent on staff. If you doubt any of this then go watch a replay of the Lehigh game, end of story.

Now THAT'S funny.

[Norman Pfyster]

Hi,

If this was supposed to be funny, it wasn't.

GO DUKE!

That crack about Seth Curry having bad genes was pretty funny.

[nocilla]

Austin was not the reason we were small on the perimeter. In fact, Austin was 6"4" (SG) playing the point on offense. What made us small on the perimeter, was Tyler, Seth and Andre. I certainly hope we are not in that same situation this year. We have Alex and Sheed that bring more height and length to the perimeter. Marshall at 7"0 gives us more height off the bench. I look for Ryan and Mason to be in the starting rotation from the beginning. Our season will be good or not so good with how we play defense and that's where my main concerns come. Will we be a better defensive team? GoDuke!w

Well I think Austin did force us to play small because he played the same position as Curry, SG. Both were going to start because they were both very good. But neither of them are PGs and we needed someone to play PG so Thornton and Cook also had to start. That left us with a PG and 2 SG on the floor a lot. Initially, K wanted Curry to play the point so he wouldn't have to play another small guard but could play Dawkins or possibly Murphy before his concussion. Niether worked out so we replaced Dawkins with Thornton/Cook in the starting lineup. I realize that Dawkins was no defensive stalwart or great rebounder, so his extra inches didn't help much anyway. However, with Rivers gone and Murphy healthy, we can play a traditional lineup. Dawkins can remain the 6th man and bring offense off the bench from the 2 or 3 spot depending on the matchup. Sulaimon can come in for a defensive spark as well, so we have much better flexibility.

[OldPhiKap]

This is the most honest picture painted of this squad, minus Josh supporting his team mates which he does and does a lot. This team has potential but all the optimisim is quiet irrational really. This past season should have shown us 4 things. 1. The plumlees aren't very effective 2. Dawkins/Curry aren't very reliable, ever, nor is Kelly 3. Cook/Thorton/Hairston are mediocre at best and 4. The Duke coaching staff needs new blood, keep Nate but wojo/collins need to go, get some fresh talent on staff. If you doubt any of this then go watch a replay of the Lehigh game, end of story.

Hard to believe we actually won a game last year, let alone won Maui and fell a game short of the top seed in the ACC conference. I thought we were like a #2 seed or something last year but must be confused.

Or maybe Austin did all that by himself, without any significant input from his teammates and coaches. (I'd add Miles' contributions, but that has apparently already been discounted by #1 above).

Who knows.

Count me as soimeone who thinks we'll perhaps be okay next year, and in many ways will run more like a traditional Duke team now that we are not trying to run everything through Austin.

[Kewlswim]

Hey, how are you doing?

Consider this a formal return greeting from myself and the rest of the DBR posters. You no longer have to start all your posts with "Hi"

Hi,

I don't have to, but I like to. If I like to, what's wrong with that?

GO DUKE!

[Kewlswim]

That crack about Seth Curry having bad genes was pretty funny.

You got me there, that was pretty funny in its own way. I just wasn't laughing.

GO DUKE!

[gumbomoop]

This is the most honest picture....

Possibly.


None of that was at all intended to be honest.

What?


I honestly can't tell....

There's no accounting for taste.


There's an honesty problem on DBR, or at least on this thread.

As the mods are too flaky to control either the honesty or dishonesty of posters, I myself am going to do some investigating. Starting with me.
.
To quote Bob Dylan, "I'm home investigatin' myself. Hope I don't find out too much...... good God!"

[Btw, do any of the mods have day jobs? The honesty-problem, alone, is enough to keep all of them full-time busy.]

Thread relevance: I'm not exactly sure - to be perfectly honest - how Duke will fare next season. And seeing that Slackerb has just posted a new thread re Calvin's return, I can honestly say that's real news.

[jv001]

Well I think Austin did force us to play small because he played the same position as Curry, SG. Both were going to start because they were both very good. But neither of them are PGs and we needed someone to play PG so Thornton and Cook also had to start. That left us with a PG and 2 SG on the floor a lot. Initially, K wanted Curry to play the point so he wouldn't have to play another small guard but could play Dawkins or possibly Murphy before his concussion. Niether worked out so we replaced Dawkins with Thornton/Cook in the starting lineup. I realize that Dawkins was no defensive stalwart or great rebounder, so his extra inches didn't help much anyway. However, with Rivers gone and Murphy healthy, we can play a traditional lineup. Dawkins can remain the 6th man and bring offense off the bench from the 2 or 3 spot depending on the matchup. Sulaimon can come in for a defensive spark as well, so we have much better flexibility.

But it wasn't Austin's fault that Tyler, Seth and Quinn were not elite point guards(at least not yet). We tried Seth, Austin and Andre as our starting perimeter players. That left Quinn and Tyler being the help of the bench. But no one stepped up defensively and Coach K had to experiment for most of the year. Had Seth been a better ball handler a back court of Austin and Seth would have worked, imho. But he wasn't a good ball handler against good defensive teams. GoDuke!

[Steven43]

I agree with 99% of your post, but I just have a very, very minor quibble here. I may not have any tatttoos myself, but a number of our players have them, and as far as I'm aware they have all been very high-character people. There's nothing about having a tattoo in itself which should be looked down upon, at Duke or elsewhere.

Offensive tattoos would be a whole 'nother story, but if something (an event, person, quote, or whatever) is very important to someone, there is nothing wrong in expressing that.

Yeah, I knew the tattoo comment was going to bother some people. I just went ahead and said it anyway because I was trying to be honest about my feelings. I haven't noticed Duke players having ostentatious tattoos, which is the main problem I have with tattoos in a general sense, but that certainly doesn't mean they don't have something like that under their jersey. I know that there is definitely a generation gap (and perhaps a cultural gap as well) on this issue. I grew up in the 70's and 80's while Duke players of today grew up in the 90's and 2000's. Attitudes about tattoos have changed a lot from my childhood to today. And yes, I agree with you that there is nothing about having a tattoo in itself which should be looked down upon. It's just one of my personal biases. Still, for what it's worth I know for a fact that many of the people that do interviewing for jobs share my bias. I hope that if any of my kids ever gets one or more tattoos that they are small, simple and in a place that is covered by clothing. But hey, what do I know.

[UrinalCake]

Hard to believe we actually won a game last year, let alone won Maui and fell a game short of the top seed in the ACC conference. I thought we were like a #2 seed or something last year but must be confused.

Or maybe Austin did all that by himself, without any significant input from his teammates and coaches. (I'd add Miles' contributions, but that has apparently already been discounted by #1 above).

Who knows.

The only reason Duke even scored a point all season is that the refs are paid by Coach K to give us every single call. It's a conspiracy by the NCAA to give Duke the most attention. Coach K also sold his soul to the devil in 1995 (which is why he took so much time off) in return for magical powers of telekinesis that allow him to direct every shot into the basket. That's why we shoot so many threes. He hates big men, which is why they are instructed to only set screens and are forbidden from touching the ball unless it's a rebound.

Next year is looking pretty bleak. Our sole incoming recruit is grossly overrated, nobody will improve at all (they'll actually regress), and half of our team will probably transfer. The good news is that it will leave us with plenty of scholarships, though we'll strike out on everyone we go after. We haven't signed a good player since Elton Brand.

[OldPhiKap]

To quote Bob Dylan, "I'm home investigatin' myself. Hope I don't find out too much...... good God!"



"Facts all come with points of view.
Facts won't do what I want them to."

-- Talking Heads

[OldPhiKap]

The good news is that it will leave us with plenty of scholarships, though we'll strike out on everyone we go after.

I'm still laughing about this one.

[Jim3k]

Hey, how are you doing?

Consider this a formal return greeting from myself and the rest of the DBR posters. You no longer have to start all your posts with "Hi"



Kewl has been a DBR member for a long time, well before the 2007 conversion. I think he's omitted the "hi" only once. It's his signature.

[Rich]

You got me there, that was pretty funny in its own way. I just wasn't laughing.

GO DUKE!

Make that twice!

[Kewlswim]

Make that twice!

Hi,

I did that second one for Big Pappa. :) I think we (you and I, not Big Pappa and I) were freshman together in Wannamaker back in the day.

GO Duke!

[davekay1971]

This is the most honest picture painted of this squad, minus Josh supporting his team mates which he does and does a lot. This team has potential but all the optimisim is quiet irrational really. This past season should have shown us 4 things. 1. The plumlees aren't very effective 2. Dawkins/Curry aren't very reliable, ever, nor is Kelly 3. Cook/Thorton/Hairston are mediocre at best and 4. The Duke coaching staff needs new blood, keep Nate but wojo/collins need to go, get some fresh talent on staff. If you doubt any of this then go watch a replay of the Lehigh game, end of story.

This is dead-on. Absolutely on point. Collins joined the Duke staff in 2000, Wojo in 1999. That's 10 ACC championships since Wojo joined, 4 Final Fours, and 2 national championships. But what about 2012? I mean, ok regular season, but no ACC championship, and then the Lehigh loss. The overall coaching performance the last 10-12 years is totally irrelevant when compared to the last 2 games of the season.

Going forward I see no hope for Duke until we change out coaching staff. Fire Wojo and Collins, and, let's just be blunt here - K is way past his prime. Time to start looking for a replacement now, before Duke slides all the way into mediocrity. Quietly talk with Shaka Smart or one of the Miller brothers now, get it locked up before next season is done, and show K the door.

[OldPhiKap]

I am SO looking forward to bringing this thread back up after we win the conference next year.

Just sayin'

[slower]

Another similarity - the perceived "devestating" off-season loss of a player that was supposed to be an integral piece of the following year's team (Elliott Williams = Michael Gbinje). We can only hope the results are similar.

Not all of us were looking for Gbinije to be "integral" anyway, based on what we saw this year. Similarly, we HOPE that Murphy is Singler-lite (don't tell me he'll be as good as Singler - I won't believe that until he proves it consistently) and that Rasheed is the real deal (restrained optimism on this). There's also hopeful optimism that Quinn makes the point guard "argument" a thing of the past.

Andre, Seth, Ryan and Mason COULD be great next year - or they might not make the leap. The upside is huge, however.

[OldPhiKap]

Andre, Seth, Ryan and Mason COULD be great next year - or they might not make the leap. The upside is huge, however.

Certainly true. Consider the following:

Of the last 17 seasons, we have had a number of great players graduate and had a number of transfers. In that period, despite all of the turnover, we have gotten a #1 seed 10 of those seasons; a #2 seed in 4 of those seasons; a #3 seed once; and a lower seed (but still made the tournament) in the other two.

We face this same issue almost every year. Much more often than not, the team reforms and we have a top-10-caliber team. Which gets you in the tourney, with a pretty good chance.

So I think you're exactly right -- the players may step up, they may not. But I would expect them all to play at a top level. We will be one of the more experienced -- and motivated -- teams in the country.

[slower]

So I think you're exactly right -- the players may step up, they may not. But I would expect them all to play at a top level.

Although, I think we kind of expected that THIS year, didn't we?

[OldPhiKap]

Although, I think we kind of expected that THIS year, didn't we?

Sure. Seth and Mason made third-team all ACC (with most ahead of them now gone). Ryan played very well this year, I thought. Dre had some hot games but needs to work on consistency. We were a #2 seed that,up until near the end was in the discussion of "the other #1 seed"

Have any of them reached their full potential? Not yet. That's why I agree with you that there is a huge potential upside. But at the end of the day, the kids and the coaches need to develop it. History suggests that K has gotten pretty good results.

[MChambers]

I think Duke has a strong chance to be very good next year. I'm sorry to see {g} leave, especially right after he got the perfect moniker, because I was excited about having more true forwards and a more flexible defense next year. Still, I really think Duke will be the best team in the ACC, although I think the Wolfies will be tough. Also excited to see if Old' Roy can win the NIT!

[Dukehky]

Coming into this past season, I was really exited to see what the product on the floor would be. I thought we'd be pressuring on D, flying up and down the court, being a really exciting team. To be honest I was pleasantly surprised to see 27 wins.

Next year, after not much changing on the team other than summer development, I think we can be good but have certainly tempered my expectations based on seeing what each player brings to the table. The roles on next years team will not differ greatly from the ones this year with the players who played, with the possible, hopeful exception of Quinn Cook. I don't think next season is going to be memorable in any real way other than the fact that we have 4 seniors who are all holding a ring, which is something special.

However, I do think and really hope that we peak at the end of the year instead of right in the middle. Having Ryan back will certainly help that belief. I really look forward to seeing what Rasheed brings to the table, he reminds me a lot of Daniel Ewing, who was always one of my favs, and I certainly hope that Murph is as good as lot of people think he can be.

I think that Seth, Tyler, and Josh have all reached their respective ceilings. Maybe we can expect a little more from Tyler in his offensive ability, most notably his spot up shooting. I've said it before, I think Seth should come off the bench and play starter level minutes, but that way it doesn't seem that our offense runs through him, because it shouldn't. I think Seth is best served as a tertiary scorer. It's hard to not see TT starting at the beginning of the year, but I think Quinn will eventually win the job because Tyler doesn't quite make up for his liability at the offensive end on defense.

I'm cautiously optimistic, I think we'll have about the same team that we did this past year. Really good regular season record, and hopefully we can stay healthy and close out the year a whole lot better. I think that the Elite 8 is an attainable goal for next years team, and if we get beyond that, then that's great and I'll root my hardest for that to happen, but I'm not going into the year expecting a final four or NC, regardless of whether we get TP or AJ. Would have thought that with Bazz, but if ifs and buts were candy and nuts then every day would be christmas.

[CDu]

We should definitely have no problem fielding a team that can score, with shooters like Curry, Dawkins, Sulaimon and Kelly, and a post player like Mason. The question will be whether or not we can field a team that can both score and defend.

I'm excited for next year. I think we'll be really good. Whether we're special good depends on some guys making big improvements in either their offense or defense. But at worst, we'll be pretty good.

[ACCBBallFan]

Sure. Seth and Mason made third-team all ACC (with most ahead of them now gone). Ryan played very well this year, I thought. Dre had some hot games but needs to work on consistency. We were a #2 seed that,up until near the end was in the discussion of "the other #1 seed"

Have any of them reached their full potential? Not yet. That's why I agree with you that there is a huge potential upside. But at the end of the day, the kids and the coaches need to develop it. History suggests that K has gotten pretty good results.

Beisdes Kewl, Jeff Capel says Hi.

Kind of like the discussion of coaches who can't win the championship, the Super Bowl whatever, at least they were good enough to get there or get seeded there.

Just think if Duke had gotten that fourth #1 seed and had been the first #1 to lose to a 16. It will happen some day, not necessarily to Duke.

Of all the posts on this thread so far, this is the one I most relate to in all aspects


Maybe because I didn't go to Duke or have never lived in Carolina I don't have a similar level of angst as some. I guess I am just a different type of fan from those that need something to happen to get excited for next year. Duke basketball is one of my favorite diversions in life. I look forward to the season every year. I look forward to coming to DBR to discuss the upcoming season and what is happening during the season. I get very excited when the games start. I like the way coach K changes the style of play to try to best fit the team's personnel. I enjoy watching players' improvement from year to year. I am very interested to see how the players will have improved from this year. I am excited to watch four players' senior seasons and as always I hope they have years to remember. I am excited to see three new players try to figure out how they can best contribute to Duke basketball. I enjoy watching Duke Blue Planet videos so I can feel like I know these student athletes a little bit better. I like that there have been a lot of great kids go through the program in the last few years that I have gotten to watch and they have been excellent representatives of Duke University and college basketball in general. If they lose a basketball game that some people think they should have won, I am still going to be very excited for the next one and hoping to see improvement along the way. I will be hoping to see the team get better every game and will be optimistic that the team will do so until the last game they play whenever it may be. As I have the last few years (when I have started to watch almost every game as I have been able to with this neat internet thing) I will be very excited to watch almost all the games and will enjoy it all, even if and when Duke does not meet my (or others') expectations. I am a Duke fan because I love basketball and really enjoy following the team. I am on the next level of optimism just down from Ozzie and gumbomoop, I believe. Yes, I am very excited for next season to start and feel fortunate that this is somehow likely to be a top 10 team again, because of the great work the staff has put in on the recruiting trail, the efforts of the players who have bought into the system and the teaching the staff has done over the years. Go Duke! /rant

Rant certainly not aimed at the above post as there have certainly been many who have stated that something has to happen before they will be excited for next year and may have more at stake in the outcome of the games than I do.

[Saratoga2]

Coming into this past season, I was really exited to see what the product on the floor would be. I thought we'd be pressuring on D, flying up and down the court, being a really exciting team. To be honest I was pleasantly surprised to see 27 wins.

Next year, after not much changing on the team other than summer development, I think we can be good but have certainly tempered my expectations based on seeing what each player brings to the table. The roles on next years team will not differ greatly from the ones this year with the players who played, with the possible, hopeful exception of Quinn Cook. I don't think next season is going to be memorable in any real way other than the fact that we have 4 seniors who are all holding a ring, which is something special.

However, I do think and really hope that we peak at the end of the year instead of right in the middle. Having Ryan back will certainly help that belief. I really look forward to seeing what Rasheed brings to the table, he reminds me a lot of Daniel Ewing, who was always one of my favs, and I certainly hope that Murph is as good as lot of people think he can be.

I think that Seth, Tyler, and Josh have all reached their respective ceilings. Maybe we can expect a little more from Tyler in his offensive ability, most notably his spot up shooting. I've said it before, I think Seth should come off the bench and play starter level minutes, but that way it doesn't seem that our offense runs through him, because it shouldn't. I think Seth is best served as a tertiary scorer. It's hard to not see TT starting at the beginning of the year, but I think Quinn will eventually win the job because Tyler doesn't quite make up for his liability at the offensive end on defense.

I'm cautiously optimistic, I think we'll have about the same team that we did this past year. Really good regular season record, and hopefully we can stay healthy and close out the year a whole lot better. I think that the Elite 8 is an attainable goal for next years team, and if we get beyond that, then that's great and I'll root my hardest for that to happen, but I'm not going into the year expecting a final four or NC, regardless of whether we get TP or AJ. Would have thought that with Bazz, but if ifs and buts were candy and nuts then every day would be christmas.

I think the realistic attitude would be to expect the team to operate about as it did in the past season.

I see Mason and Ryan being slightly better that last year with Marshall and Josh being slightly worse that Miles and Josh last year. The front line therefore is about even with last year.

The backcourt is still the same one with Tyler, Quinn and Seth probably showing some development but also having the same size and lateral quickness issues. Losing Austin while gaining Rasheed is likely to reduce our scoring some but without a loss in defense, since Rasheed appears to be a good defender.

The SF/WF position will probably see Andre and Alex sharing PT. Since Andre's play is a little inscrutable and we haven't seen Alex play a minute in real competition, it is hard to evaluate our improvemen, if any, t there.

Had Shabazz come, we would have had to plug him in at the SF. He is 6'4 1/2" in stocking feet by measurement (not 6'6"). He is physical, a good athlete, but also kind of a black hole on offense. I think he will be a good one and done college player, but will not be the best in his class, so we can do without him.

Should Tony Parker come, it would improve our substitution in the front court. He might get 15 minutes a game at most. He is in the 6'8" to 6'9", 270 pound range with soft hands and a feel for scoring around the basket, and would help with scoring inside and rebounding.

Should we get another SF candidate to fill-in where Michael was before, it could help but that is a guess at best.

So I think we are about the same team as last season with the possibility of some loss of scoring from Austin and some possibility of being more capable at SF

[OldPhiKap]

Beisdes Kewl, Jeff Capel says Hi.



Please give him my regards. He finished his career among Duke's all-time Top 10 in minutes played, three-point field goal percentages, three-point field goals, and assists. (If my friend Wikipedia is correct).

[ACCBBallFan]

I think the realistic attitude would be to expect the team to operate about as it did in the past season.

I see Mason and Ryan being slightly better that last year with Marshall and Josh being slightly worse that Miles and Josh last year. The front line therefore is about even with last year.

The backcourt is still the same one with Tyler, Quinn and Seth probably showing some development but also having the same size and lateral quickness issues. Losing Austin while gaining Rasheed is likely to reduce our scoring some but without a loss in defense, since Rasheed appears to be a good defender.

The SF/WF position will probably see Andre and Alex sharing PT. Since Andre's play is a little inscrutable and we haven't seen Alex play a minute in real competition, it is hard to evaluate our improvemen, if any, t there.

Had Shabazz come, we would have had to plug him in at the SF. He is 6'4 1/2" in stocking feet by measurement (not 6'6"). He is physical, a good athlete, but also kind of a black hole on offense. I think he will be a good one and done college player, but will not be the best in his class, so we can do without him.

Should Tony Parker come, it would improve our substitution in the front court. He might get 15 minutes a game at most. He is in the 6'8" to 6'9", 270 pound range with soft hands and a feel for scoring around the basket, and would help with scoring inside and rebounding.

Should we get another SF candidate to fill-in where Michael was before, it could help but that is a guess at best.

So I think we are about the same team as last season with the possibility of some loss of scoring from Austin and some possibility of being more capable at SF

It seems I say this every year but most of the top teams got decimated.

Duke was #6 on the selection committee S-surve

http://www.sbnation.com/2012-ncaa-tournament/2012/3/11/2863068/ncaa-bracket-2012-overall-seeds/in/2626664

and look what happened to UK, Syr, UNC, Mich St and KU plus Ohio St and Mizzou relative to Duke in way of loss of players. Just as some may rationalize the loss of Austin for Duke, these other fan bases may have some rationalizations of their own but UK did lose its top 6 and UNC did lose its top 4.

So being about the same is a net plus, particularly at the start of the season when few teams will have 3 or 4 senior starters.

[ACCBBallFan]

Please give him my regards. He finished his career among Duke's all-time Top 10 in minutes played, three-point field goal percentages, three-point field goals, and assists. (If my friend Wikipedia is correct).

Yes, and for the Duke coaching staff is stale crowd, rumor has it Jeff with that background you cite, might be able to coach some day, maybe even be like having a second head coach when he assists.

Collins and Wojo probably learned zlich working with Boeheim and D'Antoni either.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Yes, and for the Duke coaching staff is stale crowd, rumor has it Jeff with that background you cite, might be able to coach some day, maybe even be like having a second head coach when he assists.

Collins and Wojo probably learned zlich working with Boeheim and D'Antoni either.


JC was my favorite player after Grant Hill left. I'm so glad to have him back in our program. The guy went through all the highs and lows during those years but he always made things interesting.

[Kedsy]

I think the realistic attitude would be to expect the team to operate about as it did in the past season.

Personally, I don't think it's ever realistic to expect a college team to operate about the same as it did the year before. We've had lots of Duke teams that had mostly the same personnel as the year before with newcomers who seemed likely to fill similar roles to those who departed, but they almost never ended up being similar teams (e.g., 2009 to 2010; 2007 to 2008; 2005 to 2006, 2003 to 2004; 2001 to 2002; 2000 to 2001; etc., etc.) Honestly, can you name any Duke team in the past 20 years that operated the same as it did the previous season?

Austin was the personality of last year's team. I don't know whether Duke's 2012-13 team will be better or worse, but I'll be very surprised if we have a similar look or feel to the 2011-12 team.

[OldPhiKap]

Austin was the personality of last year's team. I don't know whether Duke's 2012-13 team will be better or worse, but I'll be very surprised if we have a similar look or feel to the 2011-12 team.

This may not be a popular view, but I think we will be a better TEAM next year. As talented as Austin was/is, we kind of gave him the ball and stood back to watch in a lot of instances. Mason, for example, should do a lot better if we can get someone to drive, draw the defender, and then dish off to him on the low blocks. Austin could get into the lane, sometimes at will, but usually finished (or tried to finish) his own shot.

[luvdahops]

This may not be a popular view, but I think we will be a better TEAM next year. As talented as Austin was/is, we kind of gave him the ball and stood back to watch in a lot of instances. Mason, for example, should do a lot better if we can get someone to drive, draw the defender, and then dish off to him on the low blocks. Austin could get into the lane, sometimes at will, but usually finished (or tried to finish) his own shot.

I agree with both of the last 2 posts. I think we will be a lot more fluid on the perimeter at both ends, especially if Quinn makes the jump that many are hoping for, and will place more emphasis on interior scoring and overall offensive balance.

[CDu]

I think the realistic attitude would be to expect the team to operate about as it did in the past season.

I wouldn't expect to operate about the same as last season, for a few reasons. First, we're introducing two entirely different players to the rotation in Murphy and Sulaimon. Second, it is very possible that we'll see Cook emerge as our starting PG. Those two things alone will dramatically change our style of play. Coach K has always changed his gameplan season to season (and sometimes within a season) based on the strengths of the team. And next year, the strengths will likely be slightly different than this year (unless Sulaimon, Murphy, and Cook all aren't ready).

So while I agree that Kelly isn't suddenly going to be quick and Hairston and Thornton aren't suddenly going to be taller or great offensive players, I think we can reasonably expect the team to function at least a fair bit differently.

And regardless, I'd point to ACCBBallFan's post as reason that the status quo isn't necessarily all that bad:


So being about the same is a net plus, particularly at the start of the season when few teams will have 3 or 4 senior starters.

Granted, some teams are going to move up (like, presumably Arizona, Florida, Michigan, UCLA, NC State, and Indiana). But some of the big boys are going to be trying to fill LOTS of holes next year, moreso than us.

[WakeDevil]

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/18/college-hoops-top-25-for-2012-2013-amended-to-reflect-recruitsnba-decisions/?sources=topbuttons

This person does not believe Duke should be ranked.

ETA: He had Duke ranked after believing Plumlee was declaring.

[Kedsy]

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/18/college-hoops-top-25-for-2012-2013-amended-to-reflect-recruitsnba-decisions/?sources=topbuttons

This person does not believe Duke should be ranked.

ETA: He had Duke ranked after believing Plumlee was declaring.

Yeah, but Maryland is #16. Hard to take anything like this seriously.

[RoyalBlue08]

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/18/college-hoops-top-25-for-2012-2013-amended-to-reflect-recruitsnba-decisions/?sources=topbuttons

This person does not believe Duke should be ranked.

ETA: He had Duke ranked after believing Plumlee was declaring.

UNC#11 Loaded on the wing. That right there made my afternoon. I'm still laughing!

[gwlaw99]

Nice article (http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/18226000/article-Sulaimon-realizes-the-challenges-ahead-at-Duke)on Sulaimon

[Indoor66]

This may not be a popular view, but I think we will be a better TEAM next year. As talented as Austin was/is, we kind of gave him the ball and stood back to watch in a lot of instances. Mason, for example, should do a lot better if we can get someone to drive, draw the defender, and then dish off to him on the low blocks. Austin could get into the lane, sometimes at will, but usually finished (or tried to finish) his own shot.

Frankly, I would say the same thing about 2010-11 as well. I think teams do better with three or more involved rather than only one.

[sagegrouse]

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/18/college-hoops-top-25-for-2012-2013-amended-to-reflect-recruitsnba-decisions/?sources=topbuttons

This person does not believe Duke should be ranked.

ETA: He had Duke ranked after believing Plumlee was declaring.

Someone really needs to keep track of this junk, so we can make spitballs with it next March and April.

Let's see if I have this straight. Duke returns four starters from a #2 seed team that won 27 games, 13-3 in the ACC. Therefore, Duke is unranked, despite picking up three new players. Maryland returns four starters from a team that was 6-10 in the ACC, did not even make the NIT, and was 17-15 overall. Therefore, Maryland is #16 in the whole US of A. UNC returns one starter -- as in 1, uno, un, ein -- from a team that was 14-2 in the regular season and was a #1 seed in the NCAA-T. Therefore, UNC is ranked #11. R-i-i-i-i-ght! I love it!

sage

[WakeDevil]

It's behind a paywall, so I can't post it all here, but the ACC Sports Journal site has developed a formula to predict records based on the amount of "returning production." That percentage is on the right.

1. Duke: 14-2 72
T-2. North Carolina: 11-5 28
T-2. Miami: 11-5 82
T-4. NC State: 10-6 70
T-4. Florida State: 10-6 37
6. Virginia: 8-8 56
T-7. Maryland: 7-9 75
T-7. Clemson: 7-9 50
T-9. Virginia Tech: 5-11 77
T-9. Georgia Tech: 5-11 76
T-9. Boston College: 5-11 76
12. Wake Forest: 3-13 62

If this is close to accurate, the folks in Chapel Hill will be pleasantly surprised and the ones in Raleigh and College Park disappointed. The writer would agree that Duke is unlikely to get 14 wins, but I am shocked at the low total for Wake.

[gumbomoop]

Going to 18-game ACC schedule next year, I thought.

[SupaDave]

This may not be a popular view, but I think we will be a better TEAM next year. As talented as Austin was/is, we kind of gave him the ball and stood back to watch in a lot of instances. Mason, for example, should do a lot better if we can get someone to drive, draw the defender, and then dish off to him on the low blocks. Austin could get into the lane, sometimes at will, but usually finished (or tried to finish) his own shot.

I agree with this. I think next year has some huge potential. Less isolation plays for anyone not name Mason, Alex, or Ryan...

[dukeballboy88]

I think Duke is going to win it all every year. Next year nothing will change for me and it will never change as long as we have K. Plus, I think we will be better next than we were this year.

[Saratoga2]

I wouldn't expect to operate about the same as last season, for a few reasons. First, we're introducing two entirely different players to the rotation in Murphy and Sulaimon. Second, it is very possible that we'll see Cook emerge as our starting PG. Those two things alone will dramatically change our style of play. Coach K has always changed his gameplan season to season (and sometimes within a season) based on the strengths of the team. And next year, the strengths will likely be slightly different than this year (unless Sulaimon, Murphy, and Cook all aren't ready).

So while I agree that Kelly isn't suddenly going to be quick and Hairston and Thornton aren't suddenly going to be taller or great offensive players, I think we can reasonably expect the team to function at least a fair bit differently.

And regardless, I'd point to ACCBBallFan's post as reason that the status quo isn't necessarily all that bad:



Granted, some teams are going to move up (like, presumably Arizona, Florida, Michigan, UCLA, NC State, and Indiana). But some of the big boys are going to be trying to fill LOTS of holes next year, moreso than us.

I agree that the status quo is not a bad place to be with 27 wins for the season. Yes, others will get weaker, such as UNC and Kentucky, while teams like State will be stronger. Rumors concerning Andre may well add a new factor so it will be a fluid situation. I find it difficult to believe that Tyler won't play a big part in the scheme of things as coach K really thinks highly of him and rightly so. Will Quinn win the PG slot? I think that is more likely to be shared.

[COYS]

It's behind a paywall, so I can't post it all here, but the ACC Sports Journal site has developed a formula to predict records based on the amount of "returning production." That percentage is on the right.

1. Duke: 14-2 72
T-2. North Carolina: 11-5 28
T-2. Miami: 11-5 82
T-4. NC State: 10-6 70
T-4. Florida State: 10-6 37
6. Virginia: 8-8 56
T-7. Maryland: 7-9 75
T-7. Clemson: 7-9 50
T-9. Virginia Tech: 5-11 77
T-9. Georgia Tech: 5-11 76
T-9. Boston College: 5-11 76
12. Wake Forest: 3-13 62

If this is close to accurate, the folks in Chapel Hill will be pleasantly surprised and the ones in Raleigh and College Park disappointed. The writer would agree that Duke is unlikely to get 14 wins, but I am shocked at the low total for Wake.

This is a far more accurate predictor than anything else I've seen. I don't understand how UNC can be ranked ahead of Duke pre-season. The return of Dexter Strickland will help mitigate some of the experience they're losing, but otherwise they will have a lot of guys who have to become stars after being role players. Obviously, JMM is an impressive talent and I suspect he will meet expectations. Otherwise, Bullock and Hairston need to make huge leaps while the PG spot (a position that has proven to be vital to UNC's success) is a big question mark. Meanwhile, Duke loses Austin and Miles, key losses to be sure, but returns everyone else (save Mike G and possibly Andre) while adding a potential defensive stalwart in Rasheed and a talented small forward in Alex plus Marshall who will provide depth behind Ryan, Mason, and Josh in the post. There are question marks, here, too, but far fewer than with UNC. Mason, Seth, and Ryan have already proven to be double digit scorers. Quinn was limited by injuries, but showed the potential to be a difference maker. Tyler and Josh will be older and better. I suspect the ceiling of the team will be determined by just how good Rasheed and Alex prove to be. If they give us needed versatility on the defensive end and are able to be sparks on offense from time to time, then the team could very well be absorb the loss of Austin on offense without missing a beat while simultaneously improving on defense.

Anyway, count me as one of the guys who is excited about next season. The team will look very different from this year's team on both sides of the ball. The idea that we'll look exactly the same next year as we did this year except we won't have Austin is lazy analysis. With Alex, Rasheed and Marshall (and possibly someone else . . . TP and Amile, come on down!) joining the fold, we have completely different pieces with which to work. Quinn will be a different player. All of our returnees will improve. We'll be more experienced. I see no reason NOT to be excited about next season or to believe that a Final Four run is outside of the team's grasp.

[ACCBBallFan]

With the Gbinije tranfer and potential Dre red-shirt, the annual complainers about so and so not getting enough PT may have to take a year off too, pending what Amile and Tony decide.

It was interesting to realize that Duke will have no one between 6'4" and 6'7" tall in the 9 scholarship players.

I now have to adjust my prognosis of 4 senior starters plus one of Alex/Tyler/Quinn/Sheed starting, even if that meant Seth at PG so Dre could be SG if Alex is as good as coach K has hinted.

If Dre can practice, having a 10th ACC caliber guy for 5 vs. 5 is helpful. Ditto if Rodney signs on, as he is a bigger guy for Alex to hone his skills vs, and vice versa.

Same issue that Josh can either stay bulked up to back up Ryan @ 235, or trim down to back up Alex but not both.

With the current roster, it seems the best opton to back up Alex at SF defender is the gritty muscular bulldog Tyler so that the other 3 more offensively gifted guards split the PG/SG duties.

Quinn/Seth

Seth/Sheed

Alex/Tyler

Ryan/Josh or Alex in 3-guard set if no Amile

MP2/MP3 or Ryan if MP3 not ready and no Tony

Others have postulted Sheed at SF backup and Tyler as backup or starting PG, given his banquet MVP and how much coach K values his leadership and defense. But of the two Tyler has the bulk to deal with SF's much more than Rasheed..

[OldPhiKap]

With the Gbinije tranfer and potential Dre red-shirt, the annual complainers about so and so not getting enough PT may have to take a year off too.

One would think.




One would be disappointed, but one would think.

[Steven43]

I don't quite get your comment of "With the current roster, it seems the best option to back up Alex at SF defender is the gritty muscular bulldog Tyler so that the other 3 more offensively gifted guards split the PG/SG duties."


Do you really mean to suggest that a 6'1" player with average speed can guard opposing small forwards?!

[arnie]

Add me to the list that next year's team will be better. But we are getting trashed by the local sports "experts". Suiter(sp) had these jewels on radio this morning: Duke will not compete for the ACC title; the Plumlees are the worst finishers in the history of basketball; Duke will not be very good next year; I'd easily take Carolina's lineup over Duke's; If Murphy were any good why didn't he play last year; and general trashing of Thornton. Anyway, his rampage went on and on and wish I could get a transcript.

However, I think the pieces fit well, particularly if Cook is healthy and plays lots of minutes. I see no reason we shouldn't win the regular season or finish within a game of the eventual winner.

[Newton_14]

Do you really mean to suggest that a 6'1" player with average speed can guard opposing small forwards?!

Did you not watch him this year? Tyler fared quite well as a wing defender, even had moderate success against Barnes. I agree 100% with ABF. Tyler is strong, tough, and tenacious. He can defend most college wings.

[cptnflash]

I am totally excited about next year's team! I expect it to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than this year's version. We could start as many as four seniors, will have great outside shooting, a matchup nightmare stretch 4 in Ryan, a dominant inside force in Mason, and Quinn should (hopefully) be ready for prime time at the point. Throw in some valuable bench players, Cameron Indoor, and the best coach in the country, and I think we win the conference pretty easily, despite what the pundits are saying. We might be picked as low as 4th in the ACC preseason, but that's just cockamamy recency bias. Everyone is all bulled up about NC State. SELL!!

[ACCBBallFan]

Did you not watch him this year? Tyler fared quite well as a wing defender, even had moderate success against Barnes. I agree 100% with ABF. Tyler is strong, tough, and tenacious. He can defend most college wings. Thanks.

That's what I would have said with the caveat better than a much less physical at this point Rasheed that many are inserting here by necessity and better than an overly bulked up Josh who needs that bulk to be the backup PF. Obviously the other 2 of the 4 guards Quinn and Seth are not in contention.

Duke has no one if Dre redshirts that is between 6'4" and 6'7" tall and that would still be the case if Amile or Tony or Rodney who has to sit a year join the team.

I mentioned on another thread that JT Thompson 6'6 225 pound sixth year SF from VA Tech is looking to play closer to his Monroe NC home (a little past Charlotte about 3 hours from Duke). With Duke's one year need, that might work if both parties are amenable. He already graduated and is petitioning NCAA for another year since he sat 2 with ACL injuries. Miami's Adrian Tomas got the exemption a couple years ago. Seth Greenberg would have a cow but grad students can go wherever they want.

New ball game if Amile joins. He is no less an offensive weakness at SF than Tyler but has the length to defend and lacks the bulk as Ryan did year one to compete at PF once ACC play starts. Alernatively Josh Hairston could slim down like Kyle did if Duke had Tony which could help Josh (and Tony for that matter) since he is not going to get much taller.

[Steven43]

Did you not watch him this year? Tyler fared quite well as a wing defender, even had moderate success against Barnes. I agree 100% with ABF. Tyler is strong, tough, and tenacious. He can defend most college wings.

Yes, I watched Thornton play many times this year. And yes, he is tough and tenacious, but the idea of a 6'1" player guarding small forwards 5 to 7 inches taller does not make sense. It might be a bit of a different story if he could jump really high, but he can't. Sure, he can TRY to guard small forwards--and commit a lot of fouls due to being overmatched. What would that accomplish? He should be concerned with effectively guarding the opposing PG. I haven't seen evidence that he can do that, yet he can guard a small forward? I don't know, man.

[jcastranio]

Who would not be excited?

Assuming no Dawkins for the year ...

A starting lineup with two senior big men, both averaging double figures - one with a double-double.
A big red-shirt freshman big man to come in and bang - no pressure on him.
A 6'7" junior (Josh) with big game experience and two years under K. Much like Lance Thomas - Josh will be an important piece, regardless of minutes played.

A small forward (Alex) who will fill a big need for us. This is the key element for overall success. This position will be the difference between top ten and title contender - IMO.

Point Guard - two dramatically different players who will play relatively equal minutes in the long run - Cook and Tyler. They both bring different skill sets and mind sets - both are important. Their minutes in each game will probably depend on the opponent and the situation. Both will be stronger than last year just from the experience this year.

Shooting Guard - a senior and a freshman - both apparently very skilled. You could see both of them in the game at the same time depending on three guard lineups, etc.

This is a talented, skilled lineup. With nine - the rotation will be easier to play out. I loved Austin Rivers - but he did change the team concept for me at times. Next year will be a more cohesive team in terms of passing and shooting - they will have to be. This has got to be a team that K will love to coach. I think the defense returns next year.

[Olympic Fan]

Who would not be excited?

Assuming no Dawkins for the year ...

A starting lineup with two senior big men, both averaging double figures - one with a double-double.
A big red-shirt freshman big man to come in and bang - no pressure on him.
A 6'7" junior (Josh) with big game experience and two years under K. Much like Lance Thomas - Josh will be an important piece, regardless of minutes played.

A small forward (Alex) who will fill a big need for us. This is the key element for overall success. This position will be the difference between top ten and title contender - IMO.

Point Guard - two dramatically different players who will play relatively equal minutes in the long run - Cook and Tyler. They both bring different skill sets and mind sets - both are important. Their minutes in each game will probably depend on the opponent and the situation. Both will be stronger than last year just from the experience this year.

Shooting Guard - a senior and a freshman - both apparently very skilled. You could see both of them in the game at the same time depending on three guard lineups, etc.

This is a talented, skilled lineup. With nine - the rotation will be easier to play out. I loved Austin Rivers - but he did change the team concept for me at times. Next year will be a more cohesive team in terms of passing and shooting - they will have to be. This has got to be a team that K will love to coach. I think the defense returns next year.


Good summation and shows how solid Duke will be even if we don't get Parker or Jefferson ... and even if Andre does redshirt (which isn't a given -- they'll decide next fall).

But one thing I will add ... I LOVE all the negative Nellies out there. The guys who don't have Duke ranked ... the local "experts" that suggest Duke won't be competitive for the ACC. I love all the idiots who suggest UNC will be in the top 10 or the ACC favorite. They are all in for another rude shock. Let them deal with expectations. I don't have a problem with all the giddy State fans who think they are going to be great -- they do have a strong roster and -- cut them a break -- it's been so long since they've been any good. What's the last time State went into the season as an ACC contender? I do think the weight of expectations might bring them down to earth (and just as people are overreacting to Duke's late-season slump, they are over-reacting to State's brief late-season surge).

Still, I'm going to lovge seeing preseason rankings that have UNC and NC State 1-2 with Duke back there in the pack, battling with Miami, FSU and maybe Maryland.

As someone else posted, maybe when Duke wins the 2013 regular season, they'll be forced to give Coach K the Coach of the Year Award he's deserved 2-3 times in the last 10 years.

[jimsumner]

My biggest question for next season is how does Duke get Curry and Sulaimon on the floor at the same time. Duke certainly doesn't want to restrict them to a combined 40 mpg.

Seems there are three possibilities.

1. Curry plays point, Sulaimon plays the 2.

2.Sulaimon plays point, Curry plays the 2.

3.Duke plays both on the wings, along with one of Cook and Thornton. The proverbial three-guard lineup.

None of these are ideal. Curry and Sulaimon both appear to be better playing off the ball and the three-guard option has obvious concerns.

And there are other variables. Does Cook improve enough to stake a claim on the starting PG position? Does Dawkins play next season and share the 3 with Murphy? Does Duke sign Jefferson and if so, can he play the 3.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[loldevilz]

My biggest question for next season is how does Duke get Curry and Sulaimon on the floor at the same time. Duke certainly doesn't want to restrict them to a combined 40 mpg.

Seems there are three possibilities.

1. Curry plays point, Sulaimon plays the 2.

2.Sulaimon plays point, Curry plays the 2.

3.Duke plays both on the wings, along with one of Cook and Thornton. The proverbial three-guard lineup.

None of these are ideal. Curry and Sulaimon both appear to be better playing off the ball and the three-guard option has obvious concerns.

And there are other variables. Does Cook improve enough to stake a claim on the starting PG position? Does Dawkins play next season and share the 3 with Murphy? Does Duke sign Jefferson and if so, can he play the 3.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

I totally agree that this will be the key issue next year.

You really can't play Cook with Curry because both are subpar defensively and very very small.

Curry at the point is probably the best option with Sulaimon at SG. You let Sulaimon be the on ball defender.

I think the worst case senario is Thornton and Curry like we had last year. Thornton has no offensive point guard skills whatsoever and both are really small.

I also really don't want to see a 3 guard lineup like last year because as the season went on, it proved to be a huge mistake.

I think the best plan is this if Dawkins redshirts:

Curry / Cook
Sulaimon
Murphy
Kelly/ Hairston
Plumlee / Hairston

You let Sulaimon guard on ball because he probably will be our best on ball defender from day 1. Curry runs the point in a hopefully a Scheyer-esque manner.

I like the idea of Hairston getting a lot of run because he can guard most powerforwards unlike Kelly who struggles with those 6-8 athletic types. And Murphy and Hairston at the 3 four is a great look IMO reminiscent of Singler/ Thomas. They could play next to either Kelly or Mason for stretches.

[jcastranio]

My biggest question for next season is how does Duke get Curry and Sulaimon on the floor at the same time. Duke certainly doesn't want to restrict them to a combined 40 mpg.

Seems there are three possibilities.

1. Curry plays point, Sulaimon plays the 2.

2.Sulaimon plays point, Curry plays the 2.

3.Duke plays both on the wings, along with one of Cook and Thornton. The proverbial three-guard lineup.

None of these are ideal. Curry and Sulaimon both appear to be better playing off the ball and the three-guard option has obvious concerns.

And there are other variables. Does Cook improve enough to stake a claim on the starting PG position? Does Dawkins play next season and share the 3 with Murphy? Does Duke sign Jefferson and if so, can he play the 3.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

I agree that it isn't ideal - unless the situation calls for it. A smaller, 3 guard lineup might just be perfect for certain situations. There will be teams who play more guards against us. Other teams may require more Alex and Josh at the three.

I think our personnel allows for some flexibility. Certainly - we are thin at the small forward position (one person). Josh seems to play better at the PF, despite his size, than at the SF. Still, with an extra year of experience.

Perhaps we can make teams adjust to us this year.

[Dukehky]

I agree that it isn't ideal - unless the situation calls for it. A smaller, 3 guard lineup might just be perfect for certain situations. There will be teams who play more guards against us. Other teams may require more Alex and Josh at the three.

I think our personnel allows for some flexibility. Certainly - we are thin at the small forward position (one person). Josh seems to play better at the PF, despite his size, than at the SF. Still, with an extra year of experience.

Perhaps we can make teams adjust to us this year.

I don't know what you all have seen of Josh that makes you think he's capable of guarding a 3. Speed/lateral quickness is not something you'd put in the pros part of his game. He has a lot of trouble handling most 4's, whether they be stretch or power. I don't see much time on the court for Josh at any position. I like how he comes in and brings a little toughness and energy. He works hard, but that can/should only get you so much time. I think dropping a little bit of that bulk will help Josh with his quickness and ups, but I don't know if the staff is going to try and get him to do that. We'll see, but in my optimism for this team, I'm not counting on Hairston to give me more than 5-7 minutes as an energy guy off the bench at most. Obviously if he improves enough to get a lot of run in, then I take it all back. As I've said before, I like having the problem of finding minutes for guys who deserve to play, especially in the front court. I'm haunted by that 04 FF game when our bigs got in foul trouble and there was nothing we could do about it.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I'm still looking for a garbage man with a killer focus. Then I'll get real excited.
Love, Ima

[OldPhiKap]

I'm still looking for a garbage man with a killer focus. Then I'll get real excited.
Love, Ima

Interesting point. I think Josh could be that man.

[UrinalCake]

My biggest question for next season is how does Duke get Curry and Sulaimon on the floor at the same time.

This is the exact same problem we had last year, with Rasheed substituted for Austin. I'm thinking we'll see Curry play the point before we see Rasheed there, based on Curry having much more experience. With Tyler we basically have three guys that can play either guard position; only Quinn is considered a "pure" point.

[jcastranio]

I am not a "Josh needs to start and play 30 minutes" guy. But he is growing into a more viable option. Against the right team - he could play some 3. I think he is most comfortable at the 4. He is 6'7". If we play defense right (which we didn't this year), it doesn't matter whether he can stay with a quick 3 - it matters what he can influence that quick 3 to do. Good team defense covers up for individual shortcomings - we just didn't have that last year. I think it changes next year. Josh is willing to throw his body around and bring some energy. He isn't afraid to shoot (although it makes me a little fearful sometimes). I think he is more than a 5 minute guy for us.

[gumbomoop]

I agree that it isn't ideal - unless the situation calls for it. A smaller, 3 guard lineup might just be perfect for certain situations. There will be teams who play more guards against us.

I agree with this, and just want to try to identify some likely situations. Assuming a "worst case scenario" - Andre redshirts, no additional recruits, thus 9 players total:

1. A 3-guard lineup might be near-perfect on occasion, but against many teams probably only for relatively short bursts of time.
2. A 3-guard lineup will be necessary for roughly 15-20 mpg, as Alex cannot play 40 mpg. It might be expecting a whole lot for him to play even 25 mpg.
3. K can put several different 3-guard lineups on the floor.
4. In not-ideal situations, K's coaching acumen will be tested, as he must, at least for short bursts of time, put 3 guards on the floor who can, among them, provide some D, and some O.
5. Opponents' rosters will affect K's decisions. Against some teams, for some minutes, K might use guards X,Y, and Z; but against another team, K might not use the XYZ troika at all, going with VYZ, instead.
6. If by chance something like 3 of the 4 guards excel defensively, and 3 of the 4 excel offensively, there will be almost no not-ideal situations. In which case, we're even more golden than usual.

Friendly amendments gladly accepted. Even within the limitations of this 9-man scenario, I'm guessing I've neglected a few additional possibilities.

[jcastranio]

I agree with this, and just want to try to identify some likely situations. Assuming a "worst case scenario" - Andre redshirts, no additional recruits, thus 9 players total:

1. A 3-guard lineup might be near-perfect on occasion, but against many teams probably only for relatively short bursts of time.
2. A 3-guard lineup will be necessary for roughly 15-20 mpg, as Alex cannot play 40 mpg. It might be expecting a whole lot for him to play even 25 mpg.
3. K can put several different 3-guard lineups on the floor.
4. In not-ideal situations, K's coaching acumen will be tested, as he must, at least for short bursts of time, put 3 guards on the floor who can, among them, provide some D, and some O.
5. Opponents' rosters will affect K's decisions. Against some teams, for some minutes, K might use guards X,Y, and Z; but against another team, K might not use the XYZ troika at all, going with VYZ, instead.
6. If by chance something like 3 of the 4 guards excel defensively, and 3 of the 4 excel offensively, there will be almost no not-ideal situations. In which case, we're even more golden than usual.

Friendly amendments gladly accepted. Even within the limitations of this 9-man scenario, I'm guessing I've neglected a few additional possibilities.


The composition of the team and the possible situations listed here are where K will earn his money and prove his worth. Each game, heck - each half - may bring something different. It won't always be traditional - but we got options. If K gets the guys to buy into it and not fret about playing time each game, the team will come out ahead.

[nocilla]

This is the exact same problem we had last year, with Rasheed substituted for Austin. I'm thinking we'll see Curry play the point before we see Rasheed there, based on Curry having much more experience. With Tyler we basically have three guys that can play either guard position; only Quinn is considered a "pure" point.

I don't think Sulaimon will demand the minutes that Austin did for one. (when I say demand I mean talent wise, not that he verbally demanded) Also, having Alex at the 3 will alleviate the dreaded 3-guard lineup that a lot of people seem to think was the root of our 'failures' last year. If Alex can play 25+ minutes at the 3 then we will only have 10-15 minutes for someone else there. If Dawkins does red-shirt then I think Sulaimon will get those minutes plus however many minutes Curry needs for breathers. So I think we will see Sulaimon and Curry both on the floor for stretches in games but for the most part Alex will be in with 2 guards. There is a big difference in having the flexibility to go to a 3 guard lineup for stretches as opposed to having to play a 3 guard lineup for 40 minutes like last year.

[Steven43]

I am not a "Josh needs to start and play 30 minutes" guy. But he is growing into a more viable option. Against the right team - he could play some 3. I think he is most comfortable at the 4. He is 6'7". If we play defense right (which we didn't this year), it doesn't matter whether he can stay with a quick 3 - it matters what he can influence that quick 3 to do. Good team defense covers up for individual shortcomings - we just didn't have that last year. I think it changes next year. Josh is willing to throw his body around and bring some energy. He isn't afraid to shoot (although it makes me a little fearful sometimes). I think he is more than a 5 minute guy for us.

I hope you're right about Josh becoming a more viable option. The way his body changed from early in year one to year two seemed fairly dramatic. I don't know if he was purposely consuming extra calories, drinking protein shakes with nearly every meal, lifting weights with the express purpose of adding bulk or what, but the changes were obvious. At least it seemed so to me. I think that if it is possible, he should go back to being thinner and less muscle-bound which would likely give him considerably more quickness and lift. If it was an experiment by him and the coaching staff, I don't think the results were what they hoped. If he were 6'10" and had the ability to score on the inside then it would probably be a good idea to bulk up, but a 6'7" forward who shoots jump shots needs to be quicker and more agile than he showed last season.

[jcastranio]

Why do you have the opinion that Josh is 'growing into a more viable option'? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking seriously.

There was a time in his senior year that I suddenly felt comfortable with Lance Thomas in the lineup. Don't know where it came from - just seemed like the team played better with him in there. He never scored a bunch, sometimes could be individually overwhelmed by a bigger, stronger player - but he made a difference.

Somewhere near the end of last season, I just started to get that feeling when Josh came in. He hustled, he seemed fearless, he was vocal. I believe that he will continue to grow. I think that his ability to blend in with the "team" on defense and offense will be more apparent when our "team" works better together.

Again, doesn't mean he starts or even plays major minutes all the time. But I think he becomes a crucial "glue" guy. I wish I had lots of stats to back all that up - but I don't. Just a feeling about him. I trust him to give 110%.

[Saratoga2]

I don't know what you all have seen of Josh that makes you think he's capable of guarding a 3. Speed/lateral quickness is not something you'd put in the pros part of his game. He has a lot of trouble handling most 4's, whether they be stretch or power. I don't see much time on the court for Josh at any position. I like how he comes in and brings a little toughness and energy. He works hard, but that can/should only get you so much time. I think dropping a little bit of that bulk will help Josh with his quickness and ups, but I don't know if the staff is going to try and get him to do that. We'll see, but in my optimism for this team, I'm not counting on Hairston to give me more than 5-7 minutes as an energy guy off the bench at most. Obviously if he improves enough to get a lot of run in, then I take it all back. As I've said before, I like having the problem of finding minutes for guys who deserve to play, especially in the front court. I'm haunted by that 04 FF game when our bigs got in foul trouble and there was nothing we could do about it.

To take a more positive attitude, Josh has a decent mid range shot. I think he could improve that and his free throws by putting more arc on the ball. Right now he throws up lasers that have to be perfect to go in. With a better shot, he could give us some valuable minutes in the coming season.

[Saratoga2]

I agree with this, and just want to try to identify some likely situations. Assuming a "worst case scenario" - Andre redshirts, no additional recruits, thus 9 players total:

1. A 3-guard lineup might be near-perfect on occasion, but against many teams probably only for relatively short bursts of time.
2. A 3-guard lineup will be necessary for roughly 15-20 mpg, as Alex cannot play 40 mpg. It might be expecting a whole lot for him to play even 25 mpg.
3. K can put several different 3-guard lineups on the floor.
4. In not-ideal situations, K's coaching acumen will be tested, as he must, at least for short bursts of time, put 3 guards on the floor who can, among them, provide some D, and some O.
5. Opponents' rosters will affect K's decisions. Against some teams, for some minutes, K might use guards X,Y, and Z; but against another team, K might not use the XYZ troika at all, going with VYZ, instead.
6. If by chance something like 3 of the 4 guards excel defensively, and 3 of the 4 excel offensively, there will be almost no not-ideal situations. In which case, we're even more golden than usual.

Friendly amendments gladly accepted. Even within the limitations of this 9-man scenario, I'm guessing I've neglected a few additional possibilities.

Andre is still a solid option at SF. If he does decide to red shirt, then the best option is to pick up another SF through recruiting to complement Alex. Playing three small guards on the floor together won't cut it against teams with big guards and small forwards. While we have good quality guards, they do not have that super quickness needed to offset the size disadvantage. We saw it against Ohio State and others. It makes sense to see what coach K will do before trying to speculate on lineups.

[loldevilz]

There was a time in his senior year that I suddenly felt comfortable with Lance Thomas in the lineup. Don't know where it came from - just seemed like the team played better with him in there. He never scored a bunch, sometimes could be individually overwhelmed by a bigger, stronger player - but he made a difference.

Somewhere near the end of last season, I just started to get that feeling when Josh came in. He hustled, he seemed fearless, he was vocal. I believe that he will continue to grow. I think that his ability to blend in with the "team" on defense and offense will be more apparent when our "team" works better together.

Again, doesn't mean he starts or even plays major minutes all the time. But I think he becomes a crucial "glue" guy. I wish I had lots of stats to back all that up - but I don't. Just a feeling about him. I trust him to give 110%.

I don't think its just feeling comfortable. Josh was at least partially responsible for our defensive improvement towards the end of the year. I think many underestimate the effect of having an energetic mobile four that can play good team defense. Obviously Josh is no Lance but he is a vast defensive improvement over Kelly.

I have said this before, but I really like having the big small forward and athletic power forward. Singler & Thomas, Battier & Dunleavy, Hairston & Murphy. Last year we had Kelly and Dawkins at pf and sg and they both struggled mightily.

[NM Duke Fan]

I'm still looking for a garbage man with a killer focus. Then I'll get real excited.
Love, Ima

What a great phrase, pure poetry! And I think Josh can do this, especially if he loses a pound or two, could play a bit of a Lance Thomas type role.

[davekay1971]

Assuming Alex can start at the 3 and play effectively for the majority of the game, we'll be can probably do all right working through the minutes he's off the court. We can work with what the other team gives us, but we'll basically be going with a very big, relatively less quick 3, or a very undersized 3. I'm in general agreement with many posters that, with 3 relatively small guards, the 3 guard lineup isn't a great option for the majority of the game. A 3 guard lineup, on this team, would have the 1-3 all about 6'1"-6'3". That'll be okay for periods of time, as long as we're able to play aggressive defense to interrupt passing lanes and try not to leave our undersized 3 exposed to be posted up. The other option, is to go very big, putting a lineup of Mason/Marshall, Josh, and Ryan out on the floor. That would make for a nice matchup problem for the other team as a 3 tries to guard Kelly, but it leaves us similarly exposed on defense as neither Josh nor Ryan has shown the ability to defend a relatively quick 3.

Any thoughts on going into a zone look when we have Alex on the bench? This could help cover our defensive matchup problem at the 3, whether we are in a big or small lineup, but, of course, it's against K's nature to go zone for significant periods of time, so I think we're unlikely to see much of it.

[Sixthman]

My biggest question for next season is how does Duke get Curry and Sulaimon on the floor at the same time. Duke certainly doesn't want to restrict them to a combined 40 mpg.

Seems there are three possibilities.

1. Curry plays point, Sulaimon plays the 2.

2.Sulaimon plays point, Curry plays the 2.

3.Duke plays both on the wings, along with one of Cook and Thornton. The proverbial three-guard lineup.

None of these are ideal. Curry and Sulaimon both appear to be better playing off the ball and the three-guard option has obvious concerns.

And there are other variables. Does Cook improve enough to stake a claim on the starting PG position? Does Dawkins play next season and share the 3 with Murphy? Does Duke sign Jefferson and if so, can he play the 3.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

With Mason back, I don't think there is any doubt that the top priority for next year will be getting the ball to him in positions where he can score. I believe that was the goal this year, but we didn't have the team to get it done consistently. Of all the possibilities, a 100% healthly Cook is the best case scenario at the point. If we have that, I believe he will get minutes over Thornton and there won't be much opportunity for anyone other than the two of them at the point (I was suprised to see that combined, Cook and Thorton played 33 minutes a game this year. It won't be much of a change to see that go to 40). Sulaimon is more appealing at the 2, if for no reason other than size and lateral quickness for defense. That having been said, Seth Curry played thirty minutes a game as a junior. I find it pretty hard to believe that Austin Rivers leaves and then Curry plays significantly fewer minutes as a senior. I've read some people who are worried about our guard depth if Andre is not there, but, unless we face an injury, I think this group of four looks pretty solid. I think Murphy is likely to get a lot of minutes under any scenario next year. I have no idea if he can defend the 3 and would be interested in your opinion. Miles, Austin and Gbinije played 59 minutes a game this year. If Dawkins isn't playing, kick that up to 81 available minutes. I'd say Cook get's at least 15 of those minutes to bring him up to at least 27 minutes per game (he might get a few of those minutes from a reduction for Tyler). I hope Murphy is playing well enough that he gets the 20 minutes a game Miles was playing plus a a few more from somewhere -- let's say up to 25 total. That still leaves 17 if Andre plays and 39 if he doesn't. I'd bet Sulaimon gets closer to 30 than 20.

[COYS]

Assuming Alex can start at the 3 and play effectively for the majority of the game, we'll be can probably do all right working through the minutes he's off the court. We can work with what the other team gives us, but we'll basically be going with a very big, relatively less quick 3, or a very undersized 3. I'm in general agreement with many posters that, with 3 relatively small guards, the 3 guard lineup isn't a great option for the majority of the game. A 3 guard lineup, on this team, would have the 1-3 all about 6'1"-6'3". That'll be okay for periods of time, as long as we're able to play aggressive defense to interrupt passing lanes and try not to leave our undersized 3 exposed to be posted up. The other option, is to go very big, putting a lineup of Mason/Marshall, Josh, and Ryan out on the floor. That would make for a nice matchup problem for the other team as a 3 tries to guard Kelly, but it leaves us similarly exposed on defense as neither Josh nor Ryan has shown the ability to defend a relatively quick 3.

Any thoughts on going into a zone look when we have Alex on the bench? This could help cover our defensive matchup problem at the 3, whether we are in a big or small lineup, but, of course, it's against K's nature to go zone for significant periods of time, so I think we're unlikely to see much of it.

I think that people sometimes underestimate just how poorly zones do with defensive rebounding. Syracuse, for all the length and quickness they have, are almost always a mediocre to bad defensive rebounding team. Even their biggest and most athletic teams haven't been dominant on the glass as one might expect. A smaller duke lineup playing zone would probably get eaten alive on the glass. We would limit Mason and Ryan's ability to grab boards while throwing a guard (Rasheed?) into the middle of the zone assuming we run a 2-3. If a zone is going to work for next years team, I think it would be best with a bigger lineup with some combo of Ryan, Mason, Alex, and Josh on the court at the same time. However, even in that situation I still doubt K will use much of it except for a few possessions here and there.

[jimsumner]

Andre is still a solid option at SF. If he does decide to red shirt, then the best option is to pick up another SF through recruiting to complement Alex.

If the decision to redshirt or not is made in the fall, then it will be too late to add another small forward through recruiting.

Jefferson is the only undecided 2012 recruit who could possibly change the perimeter equation.

[gumbomoop]

It makes sense to see what coach K will do before trying to speculate on lineups.

Perhaps true, but to act on this advice means effectively to shut down EK every April and May.

It also means the mods should close this thread now, and close the one entitled "Premature speculation on next season's starting lineup," and, really, close any thread that, implicitly or explicitly, refers to "next season."

Should all these threads close, many of us would perhaps live healthier lives; others would go nuts.

[Kedsy]

Obviously Josh is no Lance but he is a vast defensive improvement over Kelly.

I completely disagree with this. Ryan is a significantly better defender than Josh. He's quicker and positions himself better. He gets a lot of help-side blocks and draws a lot of charges. Josh seems to display more energy, but in no way is he a "vast defensive improvement" over Ryan.

[ACCBBallFan]

My biggest question for next season is how does Duke get Curry and Sulaimon on the floor at the same time. Duke certainly doesn't want to restrict them to a combined 40 mpg.

Seems there are three possibilities.

1. Curry plays point, Sulaimon plays the 2.

2.Sulaimon plays point, Curry plays the 2.

3.Duke plays both on the wings, along with one of Cook and Thornton. The proverbial three-guard lineup.

None of these are ideal. Curry and Sulaimon both appear to be better playing off the ball and the three-guard option has obvious concerns.

And there are other variables. Does Cook improve enough to stake a claim on the starting PG position? Does Dawkins play next season and share the 3 with Murphy? Does Duke sign Jefferson and if so, can he play the 3.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.



I totally agree that this will be the key issue next year.

You really can't play Cook with Curry because both are subpar defensively and very very small.

Curry at the point is probably the best option with Sulaimon at SG. You let Sulaimon be the on ball defender.

I think the worst case senario is Thornton and Curry like we had last year. Thornton has no offensive point guard skills whatsoever and both are really small.

I also really don't want to see a 3 guard lineup like last year because as the season went on, it proved to be a huge mistake.

I think the best plan is this if Dawkins redshirts:

Curry / Cook
Sulaimon
Murphy
Kelly/ Hairston
Plumlee / Hairston

You let Sulaimon guard on ball because he probably will be our best on ball defender from day 1. Curry runs the point in a hopefully a Scheyer-esque manner.

I like the idea of Hairston getting a lot of run because he can guard most powerforwards unlike Kelly who struggles with those 6-8 athletic types. And Murphy and Hairston at the 3 four is a great look IMO reminiscent of Singler/ Thomas. They could play next to either Kelly or Mason for stretches.

You were doing good until you omitted Tyler Thornton who got the MVP at banquet and is pre-Sheed at least Duke's best perimeter defender.


I don't think Sulaimon will demand the minutes that Austin did for one. (when I say demand I mean talent wise, not that he verbally demanded) Also, having Alex at the 3 will alleviate the dreaded 3-guard lineup that a lot of people seem to think was the root of our 'failures' last year. If Alex can play 25+ minutes at the 3 then we will only have 10-15 minutes for someone else there. If Dawkins does red-shirt then I think Sulaimon will get those minutes plus however many minutes Curry needs for breathers. So I think we will see Sulaimon and Curry both on the floor for stretches in games but for the most part Alex will be in with 2 guards. There is a big difference in having the flexibility to go to a 3 guard lineup for stretches as opposed to having to play a 3 guard lineup for 40 minutes like last year.

I agree with you on Rasheed Sulaimon except for the part about being able to guard a SF in an emergency. Even though Tyler is a couple inches shorter, with current roster at 6' 1" 205+ Tyler with his style of play is best suited to back up Alex at SF.

He is going to get minutes from K, you can count on that, MVP at banquet. Might as well use Tyler at what he is best at and not give up offense at the combo spots (loldevilz second point that "worst case senario is Thornton and Curry like we had last year. Thornton has no offensive point guard skills whatsoever and both are really small".

Back to Jim's point, I favor his point #1 with Seth with his experience at PG over his point #2 Sheed there, but it's just sematnics and they can share the duties much like Scheyer and Nolan did.

It's fine having them together with Alex at SF, not so fine having Cook/Seth since they both are average defender (loldevilz point that "You really can't play Cook with Curry because both are subpar defensively and very very small. "

Hpefully Sheed is a little better in that regard. IMO it should usually be Seth/Quinn either/or at PG not both on floor together.

Curry / Cook

Sulaimon/Thornton but guards the opposing PG or best perimeter player as posters suggested

Murphy/Thornton (preferable to 6'3" 180 Sheed there IMO)

Kelly/ Hairston or Murphy in 3 guard set or MP2 when his bro is the Cener

Plumlee / MP3 or Kelly