PDA

View Full Version : Best case scenario for the next two weeks



tdrake51
04-03-2012, 11:33 AM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?

Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?

Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?

What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?

Just curious what people want to see.

turnandburn55
04-03-2012, 11:43 AM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?

Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?

Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?

What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?

Just curious what people want to see.

I would like to see 'Bazz commit over anything else. With him, we're in the mix for the Final 4. Without him... well, then it's a great unknown

With 'Bazz, I'd like to see Mason stay. Without him, I'd be just as happy to free up the extra scholarship and groom an extra talent for a possible run in 2013.

Nothing against Mason at all. Just my thought process.

Li_Duke
04-03-2012, 11:45 AM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?

Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?

Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?

What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?

Just curious what people want to see.

1) Yes! Dre hasn't developed as much as we'd like and hasn't shown the drive necessary for big improvements. I've accepted that he is what he is - anywhere between very good and very bad on a given night. Considering {G} barely played this year, I think reasonable expectations for him is as a role player next year. We can really use Shabazz, and {G} could back him up.
2) Both! I'd like to see Mason put everything together and dominate inside next year while Parker improves his conditioning (I can't see him ready to play big minutes next year). Then we can have Parker/Plum3 man the post for the next 3 years after Mason graduates.
Since 1 and 2 would max out our scholarships, then no Amile. I like his game, but I remain skeptical about Amile being able to put much weight on that frame. I prefer we develop Murphy instead.

CameronCrazy06
04-03-2012, 11:47 AM
Honestly, as long as Mason comes back, I'll be perfectly happy with next year's roster. With that said, any recruits or transfers on top of that is just icing on the cake. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Shabazz Muhammad in Duke blue....

Kedsy
04-03-2012, 11:55 AM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?

Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?

Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?

What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?

Just curious what people want to see.

I think the next two weeks will have an impact on next season, but the suggestion that they will "shape the next years of Duke basketball" seems way too strong to me. While it's true that Amile Jefferson and/or Tony Parker (and/or Trey Zeigler) could have an impact in 2013-14 and beyond, they are not in my opinion program shaping players.

If we get Shabazz (seemingly unlikely) it would mean Duke is a top 5 team next year and Final Four contender. I don't see him affecting Andre's or Mike's development because they'll both hopefully be in the rotation anyway.

For next year, a senior Mason is much preferable to a freshman Parker. Not even close. For the years beyond, obviously Mason would be gone, but in college basketball it's usually best to worry about one year at a time, so I'd go with Mason. Also, I think it's unlikely Parker comes to Duke in any event.

I'd like Amile to come to Duke, but if he does I'd be surprised if he played much, would be very surprised if he were ahead of Josh in the rotation, and would be shocked if he were ahead of Alex in the rotation. He won't affect anybody's development except his own.

Other than the very small chance we have at Shabazz, I'm most intrigued by Zeigler and/or Oriakhi, because of their defensive abilities. Add one or both of them to our rotation, along with Rasheed Sulaimon (who has a reputation as a strong defender) and our team looks very, very different, in a good way.

Devilsfan
04-03-2012, 12:24 PM
I love the optimism. Highly unlikely, doubtful, etc. Recruiting is selling. Why wouldn't we be just as likely to land five star recruitS? Yes that's plural. We have the best coach, a top ten school, national exposure, lots of former players in the league, ESPN commentators, a historic venue and multiple NCs. Just wondering why. Maybe by April 11 our staff does the job we all are pulling for. Go Devils!

Chris Randolph
04-03-2012, 01:04 PM
Tiger wins the Masters and I strike oil in my backyard

superdave
04-03-2012, 01:22 PM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?

Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?

Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?

What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?

Just curious what people want to see.

I really like the fact that you point out how bringing in new guys affects existing guys. People around here often forget that and have too much of a grass is greener mindset. That being said, one's answers to these questions also must take into account what is likely and what is unlikely.

Zeigler appears more likely to be on the team next year than Amile, Tony or Bazz. But Zeigler would have to compete for minutes with Andre and Gbinije which could hurt us in the long run. We do not necessarily need Trey Zeigler, but he's a great kid and we do not know what to expect from Gbinije.

Amile is very talented and very interested in Duke, but probably sees limited minutes next year and knows that. I see him as somewhat redundant with Murphy.

Tony fills a niche we do not have anyone for, even if Mason does return. So I think he's a huge priority, evidenced by Coach K's level of effort.

Bazz moves us into title contender position and that is the #1 goal.

So I'd vote for Mason to come back and for us to pick up Bazz and Tony Parker, because we'd have all the parts of a great team, except maybe an elite point guard (even though I do have high hopes for a healthier, more experienced Quinn Cook in the coming season).

The tradeoffs for having Mason, Bazz and Tony on the roster next year are limited minutes for Marshall and Josh in the post, and the possibility of Gbinije and Andre getting buried on the bench except for spot minutes. But we'd be title contenders and that's more important than anything, in all honesty.

CDu
04-03-2012, 02:08 PM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?

Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?

Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?

What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?

Just curious what people want to see.

I'd say the next four weeks is a better estimate. We may very well not know about Mason's decision for sure until April 29. The same may be true of several players not affiliated with Duke. April 11 will probably clear up quite a bit, but it certainly won't be the finalization.

As for your list:

Dawkins' development is nearing its end as a Duke player. I hope he'll expand his game as a senior, but I'm not counting on it. That said, I won't worry too much about Dawkins if we add Muhammad. Choosing one year of Dawkins or one year of Muhammad (given we have a bunch of 3pt shooters already), I'll take Muhammad. Gbinije's development is a different question. Again, I want to see Duke succeed. If that means Muhammad pushes Gbinije to a reserve role, so be it. All that said, I don't think we'll have to worry about Muhammad cutting into Dawkins' or Gbinije's minutes. I think Muhammad will be wearing a slightly different shade of blue.

From what I've seen of the two players, I'd prefer a senior Mason to a freshman Parker. Parker will be an impact player next year, but he's quite a bit out of shape and I wonder how well he'd fit defensively into what we do. He's got skills though, that's for sure. But again, I don't think we're likely to get Parker, so it probably doesn't matter.

As for Jefferson, I don't think he'd play over Murphy (who was a higher-rated player in the same class and now has a year's worth of practice and strength training at the college level). I also don't think he'll play over a junior Hairston who is much more physically ready to play next year.

Bojangles4Eva
04-03-2012, 02:30 PM
I know that a lot of people are excited about some of the new players we may pick up in the near future, but we have A LOT of talent already on the roster. K said not too long ago that next years team was going to be really good, and even if we totally whiff on recruits/transfers, I still think we will be.

Loosing Austin will totally change the dynamic of this team, for better or worse, and I'm excited to see what happens.

CDu
04-03-2012, 02:51 PM
I know that a lot of people are excited about some of the new players we may pick up in the near future, but we have A LOT of talent already on the roster. K said not too long ago that next years team was going to be really good, and even if we totally whiff on recruits/transfers, I still think we will be.

Loosing Austin will totally change the dynamic of this team, for better or worse, and I'm excited to see what happens.

Coach K is pretty good at making adjustments. I have faith that he'll figure out what to do with what we have. And I think that what we have has the potential to be really good.

loldevilz
04-03-2012, 03:01 PM
I just don't see Duke being that good no matter what next year. Our point guard situation is horrible. Our bigs are incredibly soft. You can't just rearrange the pieces to make this thing work.

dukelifer
04-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I just don't see Duke being that good no matter what next year. Our point guard situation is horrible. Our bigs are incredibly soft. You can't just rearrange the pieces to make this thing work.

You are right- they may only win 28-30 games next season if Mason comes back. That is one bad team. Anybody can do that.

UrinalCake
04-03-2012, 03:23 PM
Agree that Mason and Bazz would have the biggest impact for next year. Everyone else on our radar would be more like guys who are important for the future but wouldn't be difference makers next year.

And I know this isn't what you're asking but my "best case" scenario would also involve McAdoo going pro, Calipari getting hired by the Knicks after his title is vacated, and Calhoun retiring.

CajunDevil
04-03-2012, 03:27 PM
I just don't see Duke being that good no matter what next year. Our point guard situation is horrible. Our bigs are incredibly soft. You can't just rearrange the pieces to make this thing work.

I think we can be final four good even without Bazz, Parker or Jefferson. Assuming Mason comes back then we have Mason, Kelly, Murphy/G, Curry/Dawkins, Cook/Thornton plus Suliamon, Marshall and Hairston. We are in good shape. We have bigger 3s, a pg able to create and a stud big man. I would love to see Suliamon start and have Curry and Dawkins come in off the bench. That would make us more athletic.

Edouble
04-03-2012, 03:29 PM
I just don't see Duke being that good no matter what next year. Our point guard situation is horrible. Our bigs are incredibly soft. You can't just rearrange the pieces to make this thing work.

I think you are wrong. I really think Q is gonna deliver. I thought he looked like he had the goods/potential this year.

I'd love it if we got everyone and just played everyone, trying to wear other teams down/run teams out of the gym.

MCFinARL
04-03-2012, 03:32 PM
I love the optimism. Highly unlikely, doubtful, etc. Recruiting is selling. Why wouldn't we be just as likely to land five star recruitS? Yes that's plural. We have the best coach, a top ten school, national exposure, lots of former players in the league, ESPN commentators, a historic venue and multiple NCs. Just wondering why. Maybe by April 11 our staff does the job we all are pulling for. Go Devils!

Well, sure, Duke has a lot to sell to recruits, and things could go very well. For Duke to still be in the running for three significant uncommitted recruits (and one or maybe two transfers) is itself a sign of how marketable the program is. But I don't think people here are being pessimistic based on the idea that Duke isn't an attractive option so much as they are making assumptions about what players might do based on the players' own previous comments, the little bits of inside perspective we get from time to time, etc. Various player-specific indications have suggested that Duke probably isn't the likeliest choice for either Shabazz Muhammad or Tony Parker--it doesn't mean it can't happen, but sometimes it's best not to get too excited about potential recruits before they commit, especially if instinct tells you they might be going elsewhere.


I know that a lot of people are excited about some of the new players we may pick up in the near future, but we have A LOT of talent already on the roster. K said not too long ago that next years team was going to be really good, and even if we totally whiff on recruits/transfers, I still think we will be.


When did K say this? Do you have a link? It just seems a little odd he'd offer such an assessment before knowing who will be on next year's team and how they are likely to fit together. I seem to remember an interview in which he said some team would be very good next year (can't remember now which one), but I don't think it was Duke.

sagegrouse
04-03-2012, 03:35 PM
The next two weeks are going to shape the next year(s) of Duke basketball. Taking into account current player development and new additons, what is your ideal scenario over the next couple weeks?


Would you want shabazz to commit and possibly affect Dre's and Gbinije's development?.

I'll take Shabazz; the more really good players the merrier.


Would you want a Senior Mason or a freshman Parker?.

I would be much happier with EITHER scenario than with NEITHER being here. If I have to choose, it depends on whether 2013 looks like the big year or 2014.


What about Amile's possible commitment possibly affecting Hairston's development? Or Murphy's?.

The more the merrier redux. C'mon down, Amile!


Just curious what people want to see.


sagegrouse

DukieinSoCal
04-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Agree that Mason and Bazz would have the biggest impact for next year. Everyone else on our radar would be more like guys who are important for the future but wouldn't be difference makers next year.

And I know this isn't what you're asking but my "best case" scenario would also involve McAdoo going pro, Calipari getting hired by the Knicks after his title is vacated, and Calhoun retiring.

I don't know if you were joking or not, but does anyone know if Calipari has any interest in the NBA? Or does it seem like he'll stay at Ky for a while? Now that's he' won a title, I wonder if that might change anything for him. Expecatations and pressure are only going to get worse for him.

superdave
04-03-2012, 05:02 PM
I don't know if you were joking or not, but does anyone know if Calipari has any interest in the NBA? Or does it seem like he'll stay at Ky for a while? Now that's he' won a title, I wonder if that might change anything for him. Expecatations and pressure are only going to get worse for him.

The Knicks job currently has an interim.

turnandburn55
04-03-2012, 05:23 PM
So I'd vote for Mason to come back and for us to pick up Bazz and Tony Parker, because we'd have all the parts of a great team, except maybe an elite point guard (even though I do have high hopes for a healthier, more experienced Quinn Cook in the coming season).

Sorry-- I know this has been asked and answered already, but assuming only Rivers and MP1 leave, I thought we only have 1 scholly left? If we can keep Mason and still add two more players, this becomes an interesting new dynamic...

yancem
04-03-2012, 05:24 PM
The Knicks job currently has an interim.

Interim being the key word though. I'm sure that if Knicks were given an opportunity to hire Jackson or maybe Calipari starting this week, they would jump on it. There aren't that many marquee coaches out there and many of them are either tied up with big contracts or simply happy where they are. When you have someone sitting on your bench that you know isn't going to be in the long term plans, why wait to grab your coach?

As to the OP, I would definitely say grab Bazz if you can. He's a great talent and from what I've read/seen a great person also. He may create a bit of a bench backlog but {g} and Murphy should only get better practicing with him. The MP2 vs Parker decision is a little trickier. I think that MP2 would definitely be a bigger asset to the teams success next season but Parker should have a bigger long term impact. He should a) be around for more than 1 season which helps the team in '13 and '14 and b) help with the "big man" image issues. Ultimately, I think that my preference hinges on Bazz's decision. If he comes to Duke then with MP2, I think we have a legitimate shot at a F4 or NC next year. If he goes elsewhere, I think we will be good but not realistically a F4 caliber team so we might be better off having Parker and letting him develop for '13.

I'm not sure about Amile. I think that he will be a very good college player but not necessarily an impact player next year. I also see a lot of overlap in skill set with Murphy so I'm not sure where he fits in. I guess it comes down to his expectations. If he's willing to come in and bide his time with likely few minutes as a freshman (or can we even dream about a red shirt?) then the more the merrier. Of course depending on the other two guys (and MP2) there may not be an extra scholarship available.

yancem
04-03-2012, 05:26 PM
Sorry-- I know this has been asked and answered already, but assuming only Rivers and MP1 leave, I thought we only have 1 scholly left? If we can keep Mason and still add two more players, this becomes an interesting new dynamic...

With Rivers going, Duke currently has 2 available scholarships. Obviously this means if MP2 leaves then we would have a third.

CDu
04-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Sorry-- I know this has been asked and answered already, but assuming only Rivers and MP1 leave, I thought we only have 1 scholly left? If we can keep Mason and still add two more players, this becomes an interesting new dynamic...

We have the following players on scholarship next year at the moment: Cook, Curry, Dawkins, Gbinije, Hairston, Kelly, Murphy, Plumlee, Plumlee, Sulaimon, and Thornton. That leaves 2 scholarships available. If Mason leaves, we have 3 scholarships available.

That said, I'd be shocked if we land multiple additional freshmen recruits. I'll be surprised if we land any additional freshmen recruits, actually. If Mason stays, I don't think we'll be in play for Parker. If Mason goes, we might be in play. I doubt we'll have 13 recruited players next year.

Bojangles4Eva
04-03-2012, 05:32 PM
When did K say this? Do you have a link? It just seems a little odd he'd offer such an assessment before knowing who will be on next year's team and how they are likely to fit together. I seem to remember an interview in which he said some team would be very good next year (can't remember now which one), but I don't think it was Duke.

It was discussed on the board here not too long ago within one of the gigantic "next year" oriented threads (which was pretty much every thread including in-game ones). I believe it was in reference to an interview (don't know if it was post game or not) some time around the ACC tourney. I'll try to find it and see if there was a link, but it seemed like a few posters in a row referenced that statement, so by wikipedia logic that made me think it was true.

Anyway, come to think of it, have we ever had a large (>= 3 players contributing each game, including redshirt seniors) senior class in the K era and not been good?

Off the top of my head I can think of the teams...

-Scheyer, Z, Lance in '10
-J.J, Sheldon, Lee, Dockery '06
-McLeod, Price, Wojo '98
-Hill, Lang, Clark '94
-Koubek, McCaffrey, Palmer '91 (I want to call McCaffrey a senior, but didn't he only play 2 years? I don't remember why this was)
-I can't remember much roster-wise of the 1980's teams, except for the '86 team which had Alarie, Bilas and Dawkins

I'm sure I'm missing something in those rosters, or maybe missing a year all together, but all those teams did well. Granted those teams had either great non-senior players like Ferry, Amaker, Brand, Battier, Avery, Singler and Smith, or great individual senior players like Dawkins, Hill, J.J., Sheldon and Scheyer, so I don't know if the comparison to the '13 team is that relevant. I just though it was interesting.

sagegrouse
04-03-2012, 05:47 PM
It was discussed on the board here not too long ago within one of the gigantic "next year" oriented threads (which was pretty much every thread including in-game ones). I believe it was in reference to an interview (don't know if it was post game or not) some time around the ACC tourney. I'll try to find it and see if there was a link, but it seemed like a few posters in a row referenced that statement, so by wikipedia logic that made me think it was true.

.

The question was, "Didn't K say just before the end of the regular season, 'We're going to be really good next year.'"

I thought I heard the announcers report that; it was the Wake Forest game; I posted it; then someone else came along and said, "No, that was Jeff Bzdelik, not Coach K being quoted by the announcers." Anyway, that's my story, and I am sticking to it.

So I dunno....

Of course, if it were Bzdelik, he may feel differently after losing three players in the last two weeks.

sagegrouse

yancem
04-03-2012, 05:56 PM
It was discussed on the board here not too long ago within one of the gigantic "next year" oriented threads (which was pretty much every thread including in-game ones). I believe it was in reference to an interview (don't know if it was post game or not) some time around the ACC tourney. I'll try to find it and see if there was a link, but it seemed like a few posters in a row referenced that statement, so by wikipedia logic that made me think it was true.

Anyway, come to think of it, have we ever had a large (>= 3 players contributing each game, including redshirt seniors) senior class in the K era and not been good?

Off the top of my head I can think of the teams...

-Scheyer, Z, Lance in '10
-J.J, Sheldon, Lee, Dockery '06
-McLeod, Price, Wojo '98
-Hill, Lang, Clark '94
-Koubek, McCaffrey, Palmer '91 (I want to call McCaffrey a senior, but didn't he only play 2 years? I don't remember why this was)
-I can't remember much roster-wise of the 1980's teams, except for the '86 team which had Alarie, Bilas and Dawkins

I'm sure I'm missing something in those rosters, or maybe missing a year all together, but all those teams did well. Granted those teams had either great non-senior players like Ferry, Amaker, Brand, Battier, Avery, Singler and Smith, or great individual senior players like Dawkins, Hill, J.J., Sheldon and Scheyer, so I don't know if the comparison to the '13 team is that relevant. I just though it was interesting.

McCaffrey was in Hurley and T. Hill's recruiting class and he transferred after his sophomore year to Vandy because he thought that his best chance of making it in the nba was as a pg and he knew that he wouldn't be playing that position at Duke. He went on to be very successful at Vandy and won the sec POY his senior year but I don't believe he was drafted or ever played a game in the nba. At least he got 1 ring before he left.

CDu
04-03-2012, 06:14 PM
It was discussed on the board here not too long ago within one of the gigantic "next year" oriented threads (which was pretty much every thread including in-game ones). I believe it was in reference to an interview (don't know if it was post game or not) some time around the ACC tourney. I'll try to find it and see if there was a link, but it seemed like a few posters in a row referenced that statement, so by wikipedia logic that made me think it was true.

Anyway, come to think of it, have we ever had a large (>= 3 players contributing each game, including redshirt seniors) senior class in the K era and not been good?

Off the top of my head I can think of the teams...

-Scheyer, Z, Lance in '10
-J.J, Sheldon, Lee, Dockery '06
-McLeod, Price, Wojo '98
-Hill, Lang, Clark '94
-Koubek, McCaffrey, Palmer '91 (I want to call McCaffrey a senior, but didn't he only play 2 years? I don't remember why this was)
-I can't remember much roster-wise of the 1980's teams, except for the '86 team which had Alarie, Bilas and Dawkins

I'm sure I'm missing something in those rosters, or maybe missing a year all together, but all those teams did well. Granted those teams had either great non-senior players like Ferry, Amaker, Brand, Battier, Avery, Singler and Smith, or great individual senior players like Dawkins, Hill, J.J., Sheldon and Scheyer, so I don't know if the comparison to the '13 team is that relevant. I just though it was interesting.

McCaffrey transferred to Vandy after his sophomore year. He wasn't in the class of 1991.

And the answer to your question (as is the case for pretty much any "when was Duke bad" question) is 1995. We had Parks, Meek, and Blakeney as seniors playing significant roles. Things didn't go well. Of course, that was the year Coach K was out for most of the year.

Native
04-03-2012, 06:36 PM
Best case?

Lehigh, Xavier, Baylor, and Kentucky, along with most other teams in the field of 68, are all found guilty of lack of institutional control and are forced to vacate this year's NCAA tournament wins, leaving Duke alone at the top of the mountain as this year's national champion. Couple that with Calhoun vacating his title from last year and Duke holds a three-peat of national titles.

Seeing this, Shabazz Muhammad, Tony Parker, Amile Jefferson, Jabari Parker and Julius Randle all commit to Duke and we have an embarrassment of riches going forward as the NCAA imposes no limit on athletic scholarships for basketball. Every commit stays for four years and the one-and-done rule is abolished. Duke wins four national titles and establishes itself as the dominant power in college basketball for all of eternity, defeating UNC in the championship game for two of the titles (the other two years UNC loses in the championship of the NIT to a now-defunct Kentucky team). John Calipari cries himself to sleep after the Knicks refuse to offer him an NBA job. Roy Williams cries himself to sleep because the local tanning salon closed.

All is well.

__________

I can dream, can't I?

Bojangles4Eva
04-03-2012, 07:01 PM
And the answer to your question (as is the case for pretty much any "when was Duke bad" question) is 1995. We had Parks, Meek, and Blakeney as seniors playing significant roles. Things didn't go well. Of course, that was the year Coach K was out for most of the year.

Funny how I conveniently forgot about '95, but it's debatable whether that team is considered a K team (no doubt had K players though). I guess I should of also made it more clear that when I meant "good" it was in terms of Duke's ridiculously high standards. Basically, I meant that either we were considered a title contender for most of the year, or made a good NCAAT run. Otherwise almost every year is a good year.

dragoneye776
04-03-2012, 10:51 PM
Best case?

Lehigh, Xavier, Baylor, and Kentucky, along with most other teams in the field of 68, are all found guilty of lack of institutional control and are forced to vacate this year's NCAA tournament wins, leaving Duke alone at the top of the mountain as this year's national champion. Couple that with Calhoun vacating his title from last year and Duke holds a three-peat of national titles.

Seeing this, Shabazz Muhammad, Tony Parker, Amile Jefferson, Jabari Parker and Julius Randle all commit to Duke and we have an embarrassment of riches going forward as the NCAA imposes no limit on athletic scholarships for basketball. Every commit stays for four years and the one-and-done rule is abolished. Duke wins four national titles and establishes itself as the dominant power in college basketball for all of eternity, defeating UNC in the championship game for two of the titles (the other two years UNC loses in the championship of the NIT to a now-defunct Kentucky team). John Calipari cries himself to sleep after the Knicks refuse to offer him an NBA job. Roy Williams cries himself to sleep because the local tanning salon closed.

All is well.

__________

I can dream, can't I?
Awesome post! Also, Rivers turns down NBA draft pick to return to Duke. Nerlens Noel also reconsiders and joins us. Coach K finds the fountain of youth and signs up to coach at Duke for another 30 years.

gofurman
04-03-2012, 11:17 PM
It was discussed on the board here not too long ago within one of the gigantic "next year" oriented threads (which was pretty much every thread including in-game ones). I believe it was in reference to an interview (don't know if it was post game or not) some time around the ACC tourney. I'll try to find it and see if there was a link, but it seemed like a few posters in a row referenced that statement, so by wikipedia logic that made me think it was true.

Anyway, come to think of it, have we ever had a large (>= 3 players contributing each game, including redshirt seniors) senior class in the K era and not been good?

Off the top of my head I can think of the teams...

-Scheyer, Z, Lance in '10
-J.J, Sheldon, Lee, Dockery '06
-McLeod, Price, Wojo '98
-Hill, Lang, Clark '94
-Koubek, McCaffrey, Palmer '91 (I want to call McCaffrey a senior, but didn't he only play 2 years? I don't remember why this was)
-I can't remember much roster-wise of the 1980's teams, except for the '86 team which had Alarie, Bilas and Dawkins

I'm sure I'm missing something in those rosters, or maybe missing a year all together, but all those teams did well. Granted those teams had either great non-senior players like Ferry, Amaker, Brand, Battier, Avery, Singler and Smith, or great individual senior players like Dawkins, Hill, J.J., Sheldon and Scheyer, so I don't know if the comparison to the '13 team is that relevant. I just though it was interesting.

I didnt read back through the thread.. I assume the point here is we will have several seniors nxt year and thus be a very good team - Curry, Dawkins, Mason ? (thats a big IF), Kelly - so I guess at least 3 seniors. I hope your point holds true. I see Kelly playing a major role and hope for more improvement from Curry and Dawkins. Got to have more drive and pull up game, not just stand still shooters.

FerryFor50
04-03-2012, 11:20 PM
I didnt read back through the thread.. I assume the point here is we will have several seniors nxt year and thus be a very good team - Curry, Dawkins, Mason ? (thats a big IF), Kelly - so I guess at least 3 seniors. I hope your point holds true. I see Kelly playing a major role and hope for more improvement from Curry and Dawkins. Got to have more drive and pull up game, not just stand still shooters.

I'd just like to see Dawkins move without the ball consistently and shoot off of screens more. I'd be happy with that.

Biscuitboy
04-04-2012, 01:36 AM
Without Mason Plumlee returning, our low post game becomes a puff of smoke. I believe that Mason will benefit from another year of college ball. When the dust settles, his draft position will not be particularly favorable. Too many other bigs who have proven their NBA value. I think Mason's game translates well to the NBA. He has yet to demonstrate the ability to consistently dominate and incorporate his dynamic skill set enough. He's a good passer. He can block shots. His ability to deliver points in the paint independant of dunks from passes is underdeveloped. A lot more Quinn Cook would help Mason. Mason needs to help Mason.
I think he has more to offer the NBA than Tyler Zeller. He has not proven that. Zeller is more consistent and evolved within his own skill set. Mason has a better upside. He needs to trust his instincts and be more committed to carving out his niche as a low block beast. The team needs to reward him with the ball. Mason did not always receive the ball and collect points with the opportunities he was given. Shooting percentage must go up. Free throw percentage improved. Keep that trending upwards to at least 70%. Defensively, the coaching staff must figure out a gameplan that lets Mason clean things up better. Between Mason and Kelly, we should block at least 6-8 shots a game.
I don't have the warm and fuzzies that "Bazz will come to Duke. Unless the rules change, I believe he'll go to Kentucky. Calipari has finally achieved the ultimate validation, and 'Bazz fits perfectly into that philosophy. Fait Accompli.

K's body of work cannot be touched.

Calipari's approach works. He pulls it off. His team more than delivered. They played as a team and had the players to dominate. And they did. My hat's off to him. His approach reveals what is broken in the relationship between the NCAA and the NBA. Until that gets adjusted, Calipari will dominate. There's not a lot of coaches who could pull that off. Nobody has succeeded the way he has over the last few years. Not K. Not Roy. Not the Kansas coach. Not Tom Izzo. Not Jim Boeheim. Nobody.

Tony Parker, probably not coming to Duke. I know K has dug hard for him. I would love to see a front line of Parker, Kelly, and Mason. That's a front court that brings the team into the Final Four. I'm not believin.' The team most likely to dominate in the ACC next year is NC State.
I think Oriaki and Ziegler are intriguing. If we could get one of them, that would be a win.

Amile: Silent G and Murphy might preclude his joining the Blue Devils. Suddenly, Kentucky is going to have a lot of open spots. Fait Accompli.

If Mason returns we'll be ok. If he goes, than ouch! Look out. Our front line will be threadbare. If we thought this year's team defense lacked, I shudder to think what this year's Carolina team would do against Kelly, MP3, Murphy, Hairston, and Silent G. Yikes!

We have the best basketball coach around. K is right there with the top ten hoops coaches all time any league. But does his approach fit and deliver now? K has brought our program so much success and his stature within the game is second to none.

Kentucky has the horses and delivered. Calipari has had the horses and not delivered. Will Kentucky repeat? Most likely not. I'm not sure that K's system can keep us elite, meaning to continue the level of success he has achieved over his career getting to the sweet sixteen and regular final four appearances within today's current college basketball climate.

Kyrie Irving's recruitement was a success. Austin Rivers' recruitement was a success. Kyrie became injured and the team wasn't able to gel at the critical time. No fault to anyone. Over the course of the season, Austin became a better basketball player in important ways, but the team wasn't able to gel at the critical time. Kelly's injury should not have translated into a first round loss to Lehigh. We had the horses, but we came up lame. Let's figure out how to win at the critical time. That's late in the season with everything on the line.

I would accept whatever additional infusion of skill that we can capture. 'Bazz, Tony Parker, Amile, Ziegler, Oriaki ... Let's bring that on with Mason and see what happens.

JNort
04-04-2012, 03:03 AM
I hope:

A) Mason returns and with a fierce attitude to improve for next years draft.

B) Shabazz Muhammad commits to Duke (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)

C) Amile Jefferson commits to NC State

D) Tony Parker goes to Gtown

I want Amile at State because I want State to be good again and challenging us and unc year in and year out and this would help. I do not care really where Parker goes just not Unc or UK.

mkline09
04-04-2012, 07:24 AM
I hope:

A) Mason returns and with a fierce attitude to improve for next years draft.

B) Shabazz Muhammad commits to Duke (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)

C) Amile Jefferson commits to NC State

D) Tony Parker goes to Gtown

I want Amile at State because I want State to be good again and challenging us and unc year in and year out and this would help. I do not care really where Parker goes just not Unc or UK.

Don't forget Rasheed Sulaimon. That kid can play and I think he is going to be a very big contributor to the 2012-13 team. At this point I'd be glad to have Amile Jefferson and or Shabazz Muhammad. I think Duke's odds are better of getting Jefferson though.

sagegrouse
04-04-2012, 08:24 AM
Here's a quote from the end of the GoDuke.com season summary linked on the Main Page --


Looking Ahead

While things were uncertain for Duke heading into this season, the Blue Devils will have a much more established roster coming into 2012-13. With the only losses expected to be Miles Plumlee and Rivers, Duke will return 10 players including four of the top five scorers from this season.

I like it! I like it!

sagegrouse

NSDukeFan
04-04-2012, 09:25 AM
Here's a quote from the end of the GoDuke.com season summary linked on the Main Page --



I like it! I like it!

sagegrouse

I think Mason Plumlee coming back would be the "recruit" that would make me happiest heading into next year. It would be nice to get someone else, but I would really enjoy watching a senior class of Mason, Ryan, Andre and Seth.

CDu
04-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Here's a quote from the end of the GoDuke.com season summary linked on the Main Page --



I like it! I like it!

sagegrouse

I don't know if that's GoDuke just not speculating on possible decisions or just staying optimistic or if they really know something. But I guess they could have just as easily said something like "returning at least 9 and possibly 10 players if Mason returns" and "loses only Rivers and Miles and possibly Mason." So it sounds nice, for sure.

In February and early March I was pretty confident Mason would come back. That confidence was shaken a bit with the erroneous/misleading tweet by Jay Williams. But as time progresses my confidence that he'll return grows again. Unless he gets a promise to go in the 1st round or absolutely hates life in college (which I don't think is the case), it just doesn't seem to make a ton of sense to leave.

UrinalCake
04-04-2012, 10:53 AM
I hope:

A) Mason returns and with a fierce attitude to improve for next years draft.

B) Shabazz Muhammad commits to Duke (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)

C) Amile Jefferson commits to NC State

D) Tony Parker goes to Gtown

I want Amile at State because I want State to be good again and challenging us and unc year in and year out and this would help. I do not care really where Parker goes just not Unc or UK.

I totally agree with this. With Mason and Bazz we have "enough" players. Any additional guys we bring in would likely just ride the bench. Honestly I'd rather save the scholarship for next year and take our chances with Jabari Parker, Julius Randal, Anthony Barber, etc. (though we'll have plenty of scholarships available with four seniors graduating).

flyingdutchdevil
04-04-2012, 11:01 AM
I hope:

A) Mason returns and with a fierce attitude to improve for next years draft.

B) Shabazz Muhammad commits to Duke (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)

C) Amile Jefferson commits to NC State

D) Tony Parker goes to Gtown

I want Amile at State because I want State to be good again and challenging us and unc year in and year out and this would help. I do not care really where Parker goes just not Unc or UK.

Can I add to this?

E) Cook gets 100% healthy.

F) Everyone commits to work on passing and man-on-man defense for the off-season

G) We get Zeigler. I really like his game. He is big, plays great D, and can score.

H) McAdoo goes pro. Oriakhi doesn't commit to UNC. UNC gets two more wing recruits and is forced to play a 5-guard line-up.

CDu
04-04-2012, 11:04 AM
Can I add to this?

E) Cook gets 100% healthy.

F) Everyone commits to work on passing and man-on-man defense for the off-season

G) We get Zeigler. I really like his game. He is big, plays great D, and can score.

H) McAdoo goes pro. Oriakhi doesn't commit to UNC. UNC gets two more wing recruits and is forced to play a 5-guard line-up.

I suspect that (G) is mutually exclusive with (B).

I'd add:

(I) Gbinije and Murphy really work on their games this offseason and are ready to contribute next year

(J) Marshall gets stronger and is ready to at least somewhat offset the loss of Miles

dragoneye776
04-04-2012, 06:31 PM
The list thus far with my additions:

A) Mason returns and with a fierce attitude to improve for next years draft.

B) Shabazz Muhammad commits to Duke (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)

C) Amile Jefferson commits to NC State

D) Tony Parker goes to Gtown

E) Cook gets 100% healthy.

F) Everyone commits to work on passing and man-on-man defense for the off-season

G) We get Zeigler. I really like his game. He is big, plays great D, and can score.

H) McAdoo goes pro. Oriakhi doesn't commit to UNC. UNC gets two more wing recruits and is forced to play a 5-guard line-up.

(I) Gbinije and Murphy really work on their games this offseason and are ready to contribute next year

(J) Marshall gets stronger and is ready to at least somewhat offset the loss of Miles[/QUOTE]

(K) Nerlens doesn't go to UK

(L) A leader really steps up, whether it be TT again or one of the seniors.

JNort
04-05-2012, 04:48 AM
The list thus far with my additions:

A) Mason returns and with a fierce attitude to improve for next years draft.

B) Shabazz Muhammad commits to Duke (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)

C) Amile Jefferson commits to NC State

D) Tony Parker goes to Gtown

E) Cook gets 100% healthy.

F) Everyone commits to work on passing and man-on-man defense for the off-season

G) We get Zeigler. I really like his game. He is big, plays great D, and can score.

H) McAdoo goes pro. Oriakhi doesn't commit to UNC. UNC gets two more wing recruits and is forced to play a 5-guard line-up.

(I) Gbinije and Murphy really work on their games this offseason and are ready to contribute next year

(J) Marshall gets stronger and is ready to at least somewhat offset the loss of Miles

(K) Nerlens doesn't go to UK

(L) A leader really steps up, whether it be TT again or one of the seniors.


It appeared to me that last season Tyler, Quinn and Marshall were the most fierce guys especially when it came to yelling out/cheering guys on.

MCFinARL
04-05-2012, 08:09 AM
It appeared to me that last season Tyler, Quinn and Marshall were the most fierce guys especially when it came to yelling out/cheering guys on.

Well, if you are going to talk about cheering guys on, I don't think you can leave out Josh. I'm not sure about on the court, but from the bench he is a great cheerleader--he seems to be the one who sends players out when they introduce starting lineups, and you always see him whooping and cheering for great plays on the sideline. (Note: these observations based on what I have seen on televised games, so if you are watching from inside Cameron, you may have a more complete picture.)

JNort
04-06-2012, 02:49 AM
Well, if you are going to talk about cheering guys on, I don't think you can leave out Josh. I'm not sure about on the court, but from the bench he is a great cheerleader--he seems to be the one who sends players out when they introduce starting lineups, and you always see him whooping and cheering for great plays on the sideline. (Note: these observations based on what I have seen on televised games, so if you are watching from inside Cameron, you may have a more complete picture.)

I agree and was going to put him with those three however, I said the "best" and I thought those three were the best followed by Josh.

Scorp4me
04-06-2012, 06:05 PM
B) (Starting lineup of Cook, Seth, Bazz, Kelly, and Mason. Tyler, Alex and Andre off the bench)


The same things are being said about Cook this year that were said bout him last year. Needs to start, won't go far without it, only elite pg we have, etc., etc., and he didn't deliver. So count me as one who wants to see Tyler improve because he did.

A starting lineup of Tyler, Seth (or Dre but not both), Kelly, Mason and someone else at SF and we're in business. Unfortunately that "someone else at SF" is the same problem we had last year.

Newton_14
04-06-2012, 11:25 PM
The same things are being said about Cook this year that were said bout him last year. Needs to start, won't go far without it, only elite pg we have, etc., etc., and he didn't deliver. So count me as one who wants to see Tyler improve because he did.

A starting lineup of Tyler, Seth (or Dre but not both), Kelly, Mason and someone else at SF and we're in business. Unfortunately that "someone else at SF" is the same problem we had last year.

I think that "someone else" is going to be Murphy from day 1. I think he starts at the 3 alongside Ryan and Mason, and will be backed up by Gbinije. The only thing that would change that is Shabazz saying yes to Coach K this Sunday, which is a possibility. Should Shabazz go elsewhere, Duke really needs Murphy and Gbinije to be able to play the bulk of the minutes at the 3 to be an elite team. Will also be helpful if one or both of those guys can also play some effective minutes at the 4 spot as well. Would bring a lot of versatility for K. Playing both of those guys together, he could go small at times with a frontline of Murphy/Gbinije/Mason, or Murphy/Gbinije/Ryan, or go big with Murphy/Gbinije/Ryan/Mason and one of the PG's.

Both guys have work to do, but I really like both players. It is not out of the realm of possibility that both develop and improve enough in the off season to be regular rotation players next season.

Greg_Newton
04-06-2012, 11:31 PM
Hopefully we get some updates on 2013 recruiting in the next few weeks. It's hard to feel very good at all about any of the most important four decisions for next year (Bazz, Mason, Parker, Oriakhi), except for maybe Mason, but him being forced into a fourth year by lack of NBA interest (which is what it would it would be, if he came back) may not be the best thing for an already problematic perception. Throw in the fact that one of those four is looking more and more like he may fill a huge need for our friends down the road, and I'm preparing myself for some disappointment in the coming days.

I'll be happy when all this chaos has settled down and we can just get back to the usual summertime business of building up unrealistic expectations for the players we actually have. :cool:

Newton_14
04-06-2012, 11:43 PM
Hopefully we get some updates on 2013 recruiting in the next few weeks. It's hard to feel very good at all about any of the most important four decisions for next year (Bazz, Mason, Parker, Oriakhi), except for maybe Mason, but him being forced into a fourth year by lack of NBA interest (which is what it would it would be, if he came back) may not be the best thing for an already problematic perception. Throw in the fact that one of those four is looking more and more like he may fill a huge need for our friends down the road, and I'm preparing myself for some disappointment in the coming days.

I'll be happy when all this chaos has settled down and we can just get back to the usual summertime business of building up unrealistic expectations for the players we actually have. :cool:

Ha. I resemble that remark! :) I too, will be really glad when we know for sure what the final roster for next year will be. I do hope Murph and Gbinije will develop enough to be solid rotation guys next year, but I do recognize it may be the following season before that happens. I just see talent and bright futures at Duke in both players. For me it just comes down to how quickly they develop.

Greg_Newton
04-07-2012, 12:24 AM
Ha. I resemble that remark! :) I too, will be really glad when we know for sure what the final roster for next year will be. I do hope Murph and Gbinije will develop enough to be solid rotation guys next year, but I do recognize it may be the following season before that happens. I just see talent and bright futures at Duke in both players. For me it just comes down to how quickly they develop.

Definitely agree with you on that front; I'm more excited about them than any of these recruits we're talking about, honestly. If we can just somehow escape the next couple weeks with a large, basketball playing man not named Josh or Ryan and keep Oriakhi away from UNC, I'll be very happy.

SoCalDukeFan
04-07-2012, 12:32 AM
My guess is that we get no more recruits and Mason stays.

I also think we will be very good next year. Looking forward to seeing Marshall, Alex, and Rasheed,

I am also expecting quantum jumps from Mike and Quinn.


SoCal

Greg_Newton
04-07-2012, 12:59 AM
My guess is that we get no more recruits and Mason stays.

I also think we will be very good next year. Looking forward to seeing Marshall, Alex, and Rasheed,

I am also expecting quantum jumps from Mike and Quinn.


SoCal

Not sure if they both count as recruits, but I'd be shocked if we don't end up with either Bazz or Zeigler. Probably Zeigler, but ya know...

To me, the big question is whether we get one of the three space-eaters (including Mason). Amile would be nice to have, but not a necessity by any means.

JNort
04-08-2012, 01:06 AM
The same things are being said about Cook this year that were said bout him last year. Needs to start, won't go far without it, only elite pg we have, etc., etc., and he didn't deliver. So count me as one who wants to see Tyler improve because he did.

A starting lineup of Tyler, Seth (or Dre but not both), Kelly, Mason and someone else at SF and we're in business. Unfortunately that "someone else at SF" is the same problem we had last year.

Im sorry but what? Cook was a freshmen coming off a serious knee injury and lost a lot of potential playing time because of it. To say he did not deliver is not very fair at all. Kind of like saying Nolan did not deliver at Duke because his first two years were not very good.

How do we have the same problem at SF as last year? Last year we had nobody who was ready and this year we got 2 of them who should be ready especially Murphy who coach K has been super high on and has said things like "He has the potential to be a four year All ACC player".

Greg_Newton
04-08-2012, 01:25 AM
Not sure if they both count as recruits, but I'd be shocked if we don't end up with either Bazz or Zeigler. Probably Zeigler, but ya know...

Errrr... I'd like to amend this statement...