Team from state with inferior barbecue wins basketball-themed game

[moonpie23]

if uk doesn't have some incredible lead with 5 min to go, they COULD get tight.........i say COULD, but so far, every time someone's made it tight, they just slam the other team with huge run to obliterate any momentum.


i think they cut down the nets, but i'm pulling for the jayhawks to do what they've done just about every time......ratchet up the d and win at the end.....


rock chalk...

[freedevil]

Really like Thomas Robinson and hope he wins a title. He also seems to exude great sportsmanship (which I noticed in the Ohio State game a number of times). On the other hand, I don't dislike any players on this Kentucky team. Should be a fun game.

[superdave]

Game Simulator = Pretty Cool = UK Win.
http://www.scacchoops.com/GameSimulator.asp

Jon Pence ‏ @scacchoops
The game sim line has moved to Kentucky by 4 #itmoved #GameSimKnowsAll

This Game Sim picked Kansas by 1 (they won by 2) over OSU. It picked UK by 7 or 8 too I think.

[CDu]

Kansas needs to avoid the sloppy turnovers that they've been making throughout the season. They're a scrappy bunch and they defend as well as just about anyone in the country. So from that perspective, they should be able to hang around. If they can continue to keep Robinson and Withey on the floor, they'll have a shot. They have a substantial advantage at PF and PG, and they have two very solid defenders (Withey and Relaford) to go against UK's best players (Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist). Both teams like to run and both teams can score in the half court. Should be a fun game to watch.

I'm cheering for Kansas, but I'll be just fine if Kentucky wins. They've looked like the best team all season, so it shouldn't shock anyone if they cut down the nets tonight. It's the first non-Duke championship game that I've been excited about since, well, the last time Self faced Calipari in a title game.

[hq2]

ABC - Anybody But Calipari! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

[dukelifer]

For what it is worth- It picks Lehigh over Duke with Lehigh at home - although not sure why it does not pick close to the average score since Duke wins more often. Looks like an anti-Duke site to me ;)

FINAL SCORE -- Lehigh (2012): 83 - DU (2012): 77

Matchup Simulation Stats

This game has been simulated 506 times.
Lehigh (2012) has won 227 times (44.9%), won by > 20 pts 19 times (3.8%)
DU (2012) has won 279 times (55.1%), won by > 20 pts 45 times (8.9%)
The average score is Lehigh (2012): 70.1 - DU (2012): 72.1, decided by < 5 pts 148 times (29.2%)
The game has gone into overtime 16 times (3.2%)

[jcannon]

The margin of victory for Kentucky or the number of years before the title and Kentucky's season is vacated?

[DukeWarhead]

I am sad to say, I'd prefer to see Kentucky win tonight. Having lived in the Kansas City area for a number of years until very recently, I was always shocked at the amount of Duke hate spewed by Jayhawk fans. It was incredible. They rejoiced for days when VCU knocked Duke out in the 1st Round; They scoffed at the Championship in 2010 as "a huge fluke." I had one KU fan tell me that Greg Paulus "would be third string" on a KU team. Of course, you see this around the country, and I can understand that level of vitriol from UNC, Maryland, or Kentucky (the Shot) fans. But to me, it just always seemed that ardent Jayhawk fans had a bad case of "hey,what about us???" sydrome and wanted to somehow diminish Duke's popularity/success over the past 20 years. Which really isn't necessary, because KU has done really well in that timeframe, too. No need for the unwarranted trash talk. They also have a HUGE hang up on the whole Cameron Indoor vs. "The Phog" as the 'best home court' in college basketball thing. I once listened to a KU fan rant for about 2 hours about how Allen Field House was "head and shoulders" above every other college basketball venue. Needless to say, I'll never get those two hours back. If I could have jumped from the moving car, I would have.
Also, I haven't been a huge fan of a lot of the players that KU has leaned on in the past few years. Sherron Collins, The Morris Twins, Tyshon Taylor... good players but attitude and off-court incidents that make it hard to cheer for them. And frankly, I haven't seen a single thing from this batch of Kentucky players that suggests that they have bad attitudes or aren't great teammates. Easy to cheer for, in my mind.
So, I'd much rather have a team like an Indiana, a Purdue, an NC State to route for.... but I suppose I'm left with UK. Since I don't travel to Kentucky, I could care less. But since I do return to KC every so often, I just won't want to deal with another KU title being used to to bolster a "we're so much better than Duke" argument.
After all, I recall a certain Tyler Thorton three-pointer a few months ago that said otherwise.

[MCFinARL]

Kansas needs to avoid the sloppy turnovers that they've been making throughout the season. They're a scrappy bunch and they defend as well as just about anyone in the country. So from that perspective, they should be able to hang around. If they can continue to keep Robinson and Withey on the floor, they'll have a shot. They have a substantial advantage at PF and PG, and they have two very solid defenders (Withey and Relaford) to go against UK's best players (Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist). Both teams like to run and both teams can score in the half court. Should be a fun game to watch.

I'm cheering for Kansas, but I'll be just fine if Kentucky wins. They've looked like the best team all season, so it shouldn't shock anyone if they cut down the nets tonight. It's the first non-Duke championship game that I've been excited about since, well, the last time Self faced Calipari in a title game.

Very good analysis. The biggest thing Kansas has going for them is their powerful will to win. They have a little bit of "team of destiny" feeling about them. That being said, against a Kentucky team this good, that might not be enough.

[Billy Dat]

Kansas needs to avoid the sloppy turnovers that they've been making throughout the season. They're a scrappy bunch and they defend as well as just about anyone in the country. So from that perspective, they should be able to hang around. If they can continue to keep Robinson and Withey on the floor, they'll have a shot. They have a substantial advantage at PF and PG, and they have two very solid defenders (Withey and Relaford) to go against UK's best players (Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist). Both teams like to run and both teams can score in the half court. Should be a fun game to watch.

I'm cheering for Kansas, but I'll be just fine if Kentucky wins. They've looked like the best team all season, so it shouldn't shock anyone if they cut down the nets tonight. It's the first non-Duke championship game that I've been excited about since, well, the last time Self faced Calipari in a title game.

This is a solid break-down...I, too, think Withey and Robinson can both the UK frontline and the KU backcourt is as athletic as anyone - plus they have that Bill Simmonsism - "irrational confidence" - which often gets them into trouble but keeps them loose during crunch time - exhibit A Taylor's attempted bounce pass through traffic with 6 seconds left in the Ohio State game. I think Kansas has a better shot than most are giving them credit for.

It's also interesting that while Kentucky gets the headlines as the "program du jour", Self has an amazing streak going at Kansas. While they are most known for their getting upset early, after winning the title in 2008, they've had several teams that were expected to make Final Fours and didn't, and now they are back on the first Monday in April...pretty amazing.

All that, and we get a Self v Cal title game coaching rematch. Should be a really good game (I hope it is)

[rhcpflea99]

Kansas needs to avoid the sloppy turnovers that they've been making throughout the season. They're a scrappy bunch and they defend as well as just about anyone in the country. So from that perspective, they should be able to hang around. If they can continue to keep Robinson and Withey on the floor, they'll have a shot. They have a substantial advantage at PF and PG, and they have two very solid defenders (Withey and Relaford) to go against UK's best players (Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist). Both teams like to run and both teams can score in the half court. Should be a fun game to watch.

I'm cheering for Kansas, but I'll be just fine if Kentucky wins. They've looked like the best team all season, so it shouldn't shock anyone if they cut down the nets tonight. It's the first non-Duke championship game that I've been excited about since, well, the last time Self faced Calipari in a title game.


This!!!!

[freedevil]

I'm cheering for Kansas, but I'll be just fine if Kentucky wins. They've looked like the best team all season, so it shouldn't shock anyone if they cut down the nets tonight. It's the first non-Duke championship game that I've been excited about since, well, the last time Self faced Calipari in a title game.

Totally agree. Although I was so pumped by the way Kansas took out UNC in 2008 that I was somewhat excited to see them complete their run.

[Chris Randolph]

I'm taking Kansas, 68-66. Withey can protect the rim and backboard, Johnson and Taylor can score the ball, Releford can contain MKG. Robinson is a stud. If KU has to ask their bench to play a lot of minutes, they will be in deep trouble.

One thing that will be interesting to watch is if Robinson tries to force his game, out to prove he is better than Davis. If he does that, it will hurt KU.

[gus]

I am sad to say, I'd prefer to see Kentucky win tonight. Having lived in the Kansas City area for a number of years until very recently, I was always shocked at the amount of Duke hate spewed by Jayhawk fans. It was incredible...

Because Jayhawk fans spew Duke hate... you side with Kentucky?

[Troublemaker]

KU's sloppy ballhandling will make it awfully difficult. I think UK is a bigger favorite than the math/Pomeroy would suggest. They might win 8 or 8.5 out of 10 times. Unless a good percentage of KU's turnovers don't end up being live-ball turnovers (which, lucky enough for them, was the case against OSU), UK will get 10 to 20 free fastbreak points that will be tough to overcome.

[wilko]

Whats new on Netflix?

If UK wins the system is broken...
If KU wins the fix is in...

I'm not watching.... I may peek in at the end, out of morbid curiosity, but I see no reason to waste my time with this and get angry over it.

[CDu]

KU's sloppy ballhandling will make it awfully difficult. I think UK is a bigger favorite than the math/Pomeroy would suggest. They might win 8 or 8.5 out of 10 times. Unless a good percentage of KU's turnovers don't end up being live-ball turnovers (which, lucky enough for them, was the case against OSU), UK will get 10 to 20 free fastbreak points that will be tough to overcome.

That really is a crucial point. Kansas has survived to this point thanks to a VERY rugged defense and in spite of consistently sloppy ballhandling and poor decision making. Kentucky provides a different challenge in that they can hurt you at all 5 positions. It'll be the first time in the tournament that Kansas has faced such an opponent. So KU won't likely be able to get away with the same sloppiness that they've displayed all year. Kentucky will punish them for too many wasted possessions and live-ball turnovers.

That said, I think it may all come down to things:
1. How good can Taylor be at making good decisions with the ball?
2. Can Kansas keep Withey and Robinson out of foul trouble?

[DukeWarhead]

Because Jayhawk fans spew Duke hate... you side with Kentucky?

For this one game..Um...yeah. Someone's got to win, right? And frankly, I find UK's Duke-hate less bizarre AND their players on this team more admirable.

[gam7]

There has been no defining moment in this tournament. I hope this final provides us with one.

[gus]

For this one game..Um...yeah. Someone's got to win, right? And frankly, I find UK's Duke-hate less bizarre AND their players on this team more admirable.


less (http://www.businessesgrow.com/2012/03/25/irate-sports-fans-hijack-ups-company-blog/) bizarre (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/03/15/4428723-rand-paul-wrong-shade-of-blue)? Are (http://www.kentucky.com/2012/03/29/2131616/coach-calipari-warns-kentucky.html) you (http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/kentucky-fans-change-duke-road-sign-to-uk-road/124423) sure? (http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=108673)

I've got nothing against the players on either team, but prefer Self to Calipari and favor upsets when Duke or a non-UNC ACC team are playing out of conference. With all that factored in, I'm leaning towards Kansas.

Plus, the twinge UNC fans would get when CBS shows Roy cheering for KU in the title game would be particulary enjoyable. It'll be better if Kansas is winning.

[TexHawk]

I am sad to say, I'd prefer to see Kentucky win tonight. Having lived in the Kansas City area for a number of years until very recently, I was always shocked at the amount of Duke hate spewed by Jayhawk fans. It was incredible. They rejoiced for days when VCU knocked Duke out in the 1st Round; They scoffed at the Championship in 2010 as "a huge fluke." I had one KU fan tell me that Greg Paulus "would be third string" on a KU team. Of course, you see this around the country, and I can understand that level of vitriol from UNC, Maryland, or Kentucky (the Shot) fans. But to me, it just always seemed that ardent Jayhawk fans had a bad case of "hey,what about us???" sydrome and wanted to somehow diminish Duke's popularity/success over the past 20 years. Which really isn't necessary, because KU has done really well in that timeframe, too. No need for the unwarranted trash talk. They also have a HUGE hang up on the whole Cameron Indoor vs. "The Phog" as the 'best home court' in college basketball thing. I once listened to a KU fan rant for about 2 hours about how Allen Field House was "head and shoulders" above every other college basketball venue. Needless to say, I'll never get those two hours back. If I could have jumped from the moving car, I would have.
Also, I haven't been a huge fan of a lot of the players that KU has leaned on in the past few years. Sherron Collins, The Morris Twins, Tyshon Taylor... good players but attitude and off-court incidents that make it hard to cheer for them. And frankly, I haven't seen a single thing from this batch of Kentucky players that suggests that they have bad attitudes or aren't great teammates. Easy to cheer for, in my mind.
So, I'd much rather have a team like an Indiana, a Purdue, an NC State to route for.... but I suppose I'm left with UK. Since I don't travel to Kentucky, I could care less. But since I do return to KC every so often, I just won't want to deal with another KU title being used to to bolster a "we're so much better than Duke" argument.
After all, I recall a certain Tyler Thorton three-pointer a few months ago that said otherwise.

Look, I won't pretend to change your mind on this, but I think your comments are interesting. KU is in a super-weird place in Kansas City. There are two other BCS schools that claim KC as their own too (KSU and Mizzou), and they have been mediocre (at best) over the last 30 years. KU grads more than double KSU and Mizzou combined, but the KC media has picked up on this, so they are heavily anti-KU in their articles / TV appearances. They understand that KSU / Mizzou will tune in to jump on KU, and they know that KU will tune it so scream "WTF!" Viewers / readers are tough to come by these days. Missouri has a good journalism school, so their grads own the paper (KC Star) and most of the TV stations. This dynamic has caused most KU fans to be overly patriotic about KU, imo.

I say this purely because I would hope you wouldn't paint all Jayhawk fans in the same color. Personally, I live in Chicago and in my circle of close friends / co-workers, I have an exorbitant amount of annoying Indiana Hoosier / Indy Colts / Indy Pacers fans. I despise everything Indianapolis, just because of these 4-5 people. (These guys hate Duke too, a lot of people are jealous of your success.) I know that's not right, I really do. But it's funny how your gut will tell you to root for a team, only because of your experience with a few fans.


Back on topic. I'm in New Orleans right now. If fan support is any indication, UK will romp. It's at least 10-1 in favor of UK down here.

[TexHawk]

It'll be the first time in the tournament that Kansas has faced such an opponent.

I could flip this the other way too. When was the last time UK faced a top 10 opponent?

(According to Kenpom, it was early December against UNC. The SEC was putrid this year. Indiana was #11, fwiw.)

[throatybeard]

I am sad to say, I'd prefer to see Kentucky win tonight. Having lived in the Kansas City area for a number of years until very recently, I was always shocked at the amount of Duke hate spewed by Jayhawk fans. It was incredible. They rejoiced for days when VCU knocked Duke out in the 1st Round; They scoffed at the Championship in 2010 as "a huge fluke." I had one KU fan tell me that Greg Paulus "would be third string" on a KU team. Of course, you see this around the country, and I can understand that level of vitriol from UNC, Maryland, or Kentucky (the Shot) fans. But to me, it just always seemed that ardent Jayhawk fans had a bad case of "hey,what about us???" sydrome and wanted to somehow diminish Duke's popularity/success over the past 20 years. Which really isn't necessary, because KU has done really well in that timeframe, too. No need for the unwarranted trash talk. They also have a HUGE hang up on the whole Cameron Indoor vs. "The Phog" as the 'best home court' in college basketball thing. I once listened to a KU fan rant for about 2 hours about how Allen Field House was "head and shoulders" above every other college basketball venue. Needless to say, I'll never get those two hours back. If I could have jumped from the moving car, I would have.
Also, I haven't been a huge fan of a lot of the players that KU has leaned on in the past few years. Sherron Collins, The Morris Twins, Tyshon Taylor... good players but attitude and off-court incidents that make it hard to cheer for them. And frankly, I haven't seen a single thing from this batch of Kentucky players that suggests that they have bad attitudes or aren't great teammates. Easy to cheer for, in my mind.
So, I'd much rather have a team like an Indiana, a Purdue, an NC State to route for.... but I suppose I'm left with UK. Since I don't travel to Kentucky, I could care less. But since I do return to KC every so often, I just won't want to deal with another KU title being used to to bolster a "we're so much better than Duke" argument.
After all, I recall a certain Tyler Thorton three-pointer a few months ago that said otherwise.

That's interesting. I'm not in love with KU fans, but I generally like them better them anyone else of the big programs except maybe IU. Most of the ones I've met here at Regionals or Cardinals games or what have you seem to have an enemy's-enemy dynamic with us because they hate Roy. In fact--and I could be ignorant here--I sort of had the impression that they were the only fanbase besides State (and perhaps Wake Forest) who hated Carolina more than us.

The Wake Forest fans I've met (my parents live near Winston) are sort of age graded. The older ones hate Carolina one, and the young ones hate Duke more. To overgeneralize.

[Chris Randolph]

I can understand where DukeWarhead is coming from. I grew up in Texas a Duke fan and always liked Kansas as a secondary favorite team so to speak. I moved up there for college and ended up living in the state for 8 years before moving back to Texas. When I arrived in KS I had no problems with KU basketball. But once I made known my love for Duke, I became an enemy haha. I grew to dislike Kansas just because of their fanbase's hate (cough cough jealousy from many of them) for Duke. It has been 4 months since I lived in Kansas and in that time I've somewhat lowered my disliking for KU

All that said, can't stand UNC and Kentucky. So go KU

[Underdog5]

But to me, it just always seemed that ardent Jayhawk fans had a bad case of "hey,what about us???" sydrome and wanted to somehow diminish Duke's popularity/success over the past 20 years. Which really isn't necessary, because KU has done really well in that timeframe, too. No need for the unwarranted trash talk. They also have a HUGE hang up on the whole Cameron Indoor vs. "The Phog" as the 'best home court' in college basketball thing. I once listened to a KU fan rant for about 2 hours about how Allen Field House was "head and shoulders" above every other college basketball venue.

Have to agree with this. I grew up in innercity KC and loved Mizzou (Derrick "Bandaid" Chievous was one of my childhood idols) so have generally hated KU since forever for silly fanboyish reasons. But upon return home after Duke and grad school can't tell you how many times I had this conversation with jealous KU fans. Fully admit my own biases but tend to be in the enviable position of not have to really care about any other team's success relative to mine. Is not so true for the KU fans I know.

I'm also not as low on Calipari as most on this board and actually like this UK team almost as much as I liked his UMass team (was actually in grad school at UMass when he was there and knew some of those players personally).

I also totally get the feelings UK fans have about Duke... the sting felt on 3/28/1992 is almost impossible to get over. It's like David and Goliath but David ends up getting sucker punched after the bell (well not quite after) and they get to live that moment over and over again every single year.

[CDu]

I could flip this the other way too. When was the last time UK faced a top 10 opponent?

(According to Kenpom, it was early December against UNC. The SEC was putrid this year. Indiana was #11, fwiw.)

Well, that's kind of a tight threshold. UK has played the #4 (Kansas, by the way), #7, #11 (twice), #12 (twice), #15 (twice), #16 (twice), and #17 teams in the nation. The SEC is certainly weak, but its not like Kentucky hasn't faced tough teams. They handled Kansas pretty convincingly the first time they played. Kansas will have to play a lot better this time around.

[gus]

less (http://www.businessesgrow.com/2012/03/25/irate-sports-fans-hijack-ups-company-blog/) bizarre (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/03/15/4428723-rand-paul-wrong-shade-of-blue)? Are (http://www.kentucky.com/2012/03/29/2131616/coach-calipari-warns-kentucky.html) you (http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/kentucky-fans-change-duke-road-sign-to-uk-road/124423) sure? (http://kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=108673)

I've got nothing against the players on either team, but prefer Self to Calipari and favor upsets when Duke or a non-UNC ACC team are playing out of conference. With all that factored in, I'm leaning towards Kansas.

Plus, the twinge UNC fans would get when CBS shows Roy cheering for KU in the title game would be particulary enjoyable. It'll be better if Kansas is winning.

I guess the part I glossed over is that you lived in KC until recently. There is sort of a coulomb's law of fandom in effect here: the repulsion is inversely proportional to a square of the distance.

[moonpie23]

here we go

[moonpie23]

as expected ...hectic pace.....ku trying hard not to get off to a slow start....

man, uk is just bigger, better, stronger.......wow..

[CDu]

as expected ...hectic pace.....ku trying hard not to get off to a slow start....

man, uk is just bigger, better, stronger.......wow..

Well, they're bigger and stronger at the SG and SF spots. But Kansas is bigger and stronger at the PF and C spots.

[gus]

as expected ...hectic pace.....ku trying hard not to get off to a slow start....

man, uk is just bigger, better, stronger.......wow..

yeah, this is about what I expected for the start.

[CDu]

Terrence Jones, Kidd-Gilchrist wore their big boy pants tonight. If Jones can continue to negate Thomas Robinson it could be a long night for the Jayhawks. Kansas has to win that matchup, and probably needs to win it convincingly.

[dukelifer]

Terrence Jones, Kidd-Gilchrist wore their big boy pants tonight. If Jones can continue to negate Thomas Robinson it could be a long night for the Jayhawks. Kansas has to win that matchup, and probably needs to win it convincingly.

Kansas has to maintain contact. KY is expending a lot of energy.

[moonpie23]

kansas is getting blocked everywhere inside the 3 pt line...

[UrinalCake]

Like many others I don't like Calipari, but I do have to hand it to him, he gets these elite players to buy into the team concept, they share the ball well and they play some serious D. Managing a team of all-stars isn't easy, especially when they're all there for their own purposes, but somehow Cal has convinced them to value winning above all else.

[CDu]

Oooh, rough ankle roll by Jones. Hopefully he's okay. Will be interesting to see how he plays from here on out. If they have to go with Wiltjer/Vargas, that's a big dropoff.

[gus]

Oooh, rough ankle roll by Jones. Hopefully he's okay. Will be interesting to see how he plays from here on out. If they have to go with Wiltjer/Vargas, that's a big dropoff.

yeah, that looked painful

[dukelifer]

as expected ...hectic pace.....ku trying hard not to get off to a slow start....

man, uk is just bigger, better, stronger.......wow..

Robinson is struggling to get his shot off. Kansas is limited on O.

[gus]

Robinson is struggling to get his shot off. Kansas is limited on O.

This is turning painful to watch.

[sporthenry]

This is turning painful to watch.

Yes, although it will make it easier to turn the TV off and go to bed with this late start.

[Devilsfan]

Kentucky is so lucky. They got here without having to go through Lehigh. Seriously though this could be the best college basketball team I have ever seen. Kansas should of had a girl infiltrate Ky ranks and shave Davis' unibrow. Like Samson he would have lost all his strength. Someone send Self some Crypton.

[gus]

Kentucky is so lucky. They got here without having to go through Lehigh. Seriously though this could be the best college basketball team I have ever seen. Kansas should of had a girl infiltrate Ky ranks and shave Davis' unibrow. Like Samson he would have lost all his strength. Someone send Self some Crypton.

I still would like to have seen duke play Kentucky, but man we would have been crushed.

[Devilsfan]

My dream would have been a rematch of Ky and roy's little boys. Ky would have won by thirty IMO.

[sporthenry]

Kentucky is so lucky. They got here without having to go through Lehigh. Seriously though this could be the best college basketball team I have ever seen. Kansas should of had a girl infiltrate Ky ranks and shave Davis' unibrow. Like Samson he would have lost all his strength. Someone send Self some Crypton.

I think you severely overrate UK. UNC was a fingertip away from beating UK in Lexington so I think a rematch with a healthy UNC would have been pretty close not that I'll complain too much. Additionally, Florida in 2007, North Carolina in 2009 or Duke in 2001 would easily give this team a run for its money. Those teams had very similar NBA talent along with plenty of experience.

[FerryFor50]

I think you severely overrate UK. UNC was a fingertip away from beating UK in Lexington so I think a rematch with a healthy UNC would have been pretty close not that I'll complain too much. Additionally, Florida in 2007, North Carolina in 2009 or Duke in 2001 would easily give this team a run for its money. Those teams had very similar NBA talent along with plenty of experience.

I'd add that the UNLV teams of 91-92 were better, too.

And I'd say that some of Duke's national championship teams were on par.

[dukelifer]

I'd add that the UNLV teams of 91-92 were better, too.

And I'd say that some of Duke's national championship teams were on par.

There is an old saying in bball. Hard to beat a team shooting 60 percent.

[BobbyFan]

I'd add that the UNLV teams of 91-92 were better, too.

And I'd say that some of Duke's national championship teams were on par.

And a few more teams as well...

Kentucky is clearly the best team this year, but they do not stand out compared to other national champions.

[Dukehky]

This squad is just ridiculous. They are up by 14, should be up more, and the national player of the year is yet to score.

I don't think this ranks as one of the best teams of all time though. 09 Heels would have trashed this team.

[sporthenry]

And a few more teams as well...

Kentucky is clearly the best team this year, but they do not stand out compared to other national champions.

Yes, my list was hardly exhaustive. Kentucky is the most complete team but people are blinded by the NBA potential and the fact they have two guys who will go top 5 whereas a team with seniors with less upside but more strength and experience could easily compete.

[FerryFor50]

Yes, my list was hardly exhaustive. Kentucky is the most complete team but people are blinded by the NBA potential and the fact they have two guys who will go top 5 whereas a team with seniors with less upside but more strength and experience could easily compete.

Plus a lot of better teams have had great players with 3-4 years of college experience. Men against boys.

[gumbomoop]

Withey with the thunder-dumb.

Just too dumb.

Edit: And a couple minutes later, Robinson with another missed thunder-dumb. Go the hell, ESPN. Or something.

[Dukehky]

Bazz to Kentucky, Calipari to the Knicks. I'll take that trade. Get that slimy son of a gun out of the game.

I think what I would like more than anything right now, since Kentucky is looking like they're gonna run away with this game, is for them to go ahead and win... and then have it vacated by the NCAA. Only a matter of time, right?

[FerryFor50]

It seems like Kansas only plays well when down by double digits... all tournament long they've started out slow and then come back from deficits.

I doubt they'll have enough to do it against UK, but I expect this game to be within 7 points by the end.

[hurleyfor3]

If nothing else, Kentucky fans tonight have to endure that ups commercial of The Shot.

[Dukehky]

So... apparently Dorom Lamb can shoot in a dome.

[dukelifer]

If nothing else, Kentucky fans tonight have to endure that ups commercial of The Shot.

Game over. KU does not have enough

[gumbomoop]

Withey with yet another missed thunder-dumb. Even when your team is playing for the NC, and desperately needing comeback points, style-points triumph actual points. Dumber than dirt.

[dcdrumsinc]

Well at least well find out tomorrow shabazz muhammad commits to kentucky. so we can all move on

[Newton_14]

At the end of the day, Kansas just does not have enough shooters. If they had 2 or 3 guys that could fill it up from deep, this would be a game.

People can talk all they want about offense, and Calimari's coaching, but this Kentucky team is a dominant defensive team. They defend the perimeter and the interior. Kansas is a great defensive team as well, they just lack shooters to open space for T-Rob.

[FerryFor50]

I think Terrence Jones and Anthony Davis are getting an early taste of what life will be like for them in the NBA when everyone is as tall and strong as you are.

Jones can't handle Robinson and Davis is struggling to score against Withey.

[FerryFor50]

Well at least well find out tomorrow shabazz muhammad commits to kentucky. so we can all move on

We don't find out until the 11th.

[Native]

At the end of the day, Kansas just does not have enough shooters. If they had 2 or 3 guys that could fill it up from deep, this would be a game.

People can talk all they want about offense, and Calimari's coaching, but this Kentucky team is a dominant defensive team. They defend the perimeter and the interior. Kansas is a great defensive team as well, they just lack shooters to open space for T-Rob.

Yeah, I'll give you the villification of Calimari, their fanbase, and Anthony Davis's facial hair, but I can't really find much fault in the UK players themselves. They actually play a really good brand of basketball: unselfish and defensively dominant with talent across the board. They play physically without being goons and just kick the ever-livin' out of other teams. Have to give the players their due.

EDIT: Here come the Jayhawks...

[Newton_14]

I think Terrence Jones and Anthony Davis are getting an early taste of what life will be like for them in the NBA when everyone is as tall and strong as you are.

Jones can't handle Robinson and Davis is struggling to score against Withey.

Davis needs more weight for sure. Barkley spoke on that this morning on the Dan Patrick show. He said Davis would be the top pick but realistically should stay in school until he is physically ready for the NBA. He is not a fan of the one and one rule.

[sporthenry]

At the end of the day, Kansas just does not have enough shooters. If they had 2 or 3 guys that could fill it up from deep, this would be a game.

People can talk all they want about offense, and Calimari's coaching, but this Kentucky team is a dominant defensive team. They defend the perimeter and the interior. Kansas is a great defensive team as well, they just lack shooters to open space for T-Rob.

I think if anything, as time goes on, people are gaining more respect for Calipari's coaching. That said, I haven't been particularly impressed with their perimeter defense perhaps they are just allowing Taylor and Co. to get into the lane b/c Davis is there but if they had a Mario Chalmers and Brandon Rush who could light it up from the outside, they've had plenty of open outside shots.

[CoachJ10]

4 quick observations...

this loosely called game is definitely helping UK. plenty of action in the paint that seems like it normally would draw a whistle is being let go. t-rob and withey have not gotten the benefit of that.

this game definitely goes against the trend of the 3 pt field goal dominating the action. both squads do not have much when it comes to spot up shooters that could take advantage of the great low post threats.

davis and t-rob are clearly nba prospects that should help any NBA team. not sure about anyone else yet...mkg has not shown me that he can dominate people his size.

while KU may not be the most skilled team...their conditioning is fantastic.

[CDu]

I think Terrence Jones and Anthony Davis are getting an early taste of what life will be like for them in the NBA when everyone is as tall and strong as you are.

Jones can't handle Robinson and Davis is struggling to score against Withey.

Yup. For all those folks talking about how Kentucky could beat the Wizards, take note. They've not run away from a Kansas team with only two players who can score at all. The Wizards have even more size than Kansas at every position, and significantly more talent at most positions (PF being the only exception).

Davis will be very good NBA player as he gets accustomed to the size and speed of the game. I don't know that Jones has the skill to be a really good NBA player.

[UrinalCake]

I think Terrence Jones and Anthony Davis are getting an early taste of what life will be like for them in the NBA when everyone is as tall and strong as you are.

Jones can't handle Robinson and Davis is struggling to score against Withey.

I agree, I think based on watching this game that if I were an NBA team I'd draft Robinson over Davis. Davis doesn't have any offense and seems to be getting by just on his freakish size and athleticism.

[mr. synellinden]

Um ... this game isn't over. would be a 1 pt game if kansas could dunk the ball.

[gus]

A turnover at 3:10 is never a good idea. ugh.

[FerryFor50]

Watching these two teams, I say Bill Self is a much better coach. Kansas looks so much more fluid on offense... they just don't have the same talent level.

Calipari doesn't really coach... he just sends out his NBA prospects and lets them play, which is probably why so many players want to play there.

[CDu]

Oh my. If that Robinson shot goes in, Kentucky's collars would be getting a little tight.

[sporthenry]

Yup. For all those folks talking about how Kentucky could beat the Wizards, take note. They've not run away from a Kansas team with only two players who can score at all. The Wizards have even more size than Kansas at every position, and significantly more talent at most positions (PF being the only exception).

Davis will be very good NBA player as he gets accustomed to the size and speed of the game. I don't know that Jones has the skill to be a really good NBA player.

I agree that Jones seems to be a tweener who will probably have to be a 3 in the NBA but has not developed much and has seemed to have some issues with Calipari through two years that have to raise a red flag.

[FerryFor50]

I agree, I think based on watching this game that if I were an NBA team I'd draft Robinson over Davis. Davis doesn't have any offense and seems to be getting by just on his freakish size and athleticism.

I wouldn't. Robinson has peaked, IMO. He plays below the rim and doesn't shoot very well outside of the 5-10 feet around the basket. And he's not very fast... his bulk will be negated in the pros.

Davis has plenty of potential... but he may be more Keith Closs than Kevin Garnett.

[gus]

wow - I thought JOnes had his foot out of bounds there.wow.

[Gthoma2a]

It has frustrated me all day, but I think that I was right that Calipari may just have his title tonight. Ugh!

[sporthenry]

I agree, I think based on watching this game that if I were an NBA team I'd draft Robinson over Davis. Davis doesn't have any offense and seems to be getting by just on his freakish size and athleticism.

While I don't always agree with potential, I think this is one case you have to go with potential. First off, Davis' impact on defense has nullified much of Robinson for most of this game. Secondly, Robinson is a junior while Davis is a freshman. You would expect Davis to get better on offense and unless you are drafting for 1-2 years, Davis shows more potential down the road while seemingly providing as much impact as T-Rob does but on the other side.

[gus]

A turnover at 3:10 is never a good idea. ugh.

A turnover at 57 seconds is never a good idea. UGH.

[dukelifer]

It has frustrated me all day, but I think that I was right that Calipari may just have his title tonight. Ugh!

Kansas made it interesting but too many mistakes. KY's game to lose.

[FerryFor50]

A turnover at 57 seconds is never a good idea. UGH.

Tyshon Taylor... so fast with the ball, so slow with his decision making.

He really makes some bonehead plays... must be maddening to coach.

[Newton_14]

Tyshon Taylor... so fast with the ball, so slow with his decision making.

He really makes some bonehead plays... must be maddening to coach.

The Johnson kid hurt them too. Driving baseline with no where to go.. had a chance to cut it to 5. and now he travels.. ugh

[gumbomoop]

Um ... this game isn't over. would be a 1 pt game if kansas could dunk the ball.

Amen. Three missed thunder-dumbs. Say they made just 2 of these 3 with more conventional dunks. 4 points, much more pressure on UK in last 3 minutes.

[slower]

Tyshon Taylor... so fast with the ball, so slow with his decision making.

He really makes some bonehead plays... must be maddening to coach.

Seriously. Taylor makes more stupid plays than anybody I can recall.

[Newton_14]

Hats off to Kansas. They could have folded and didn't. Just could not put the ball in the hole... Sigh..

[gus]

A turnover at 57 seconds is never a good idea. UGH.

A turnover at 24 seconds... oh nevermind.

[slower]

The Mayans, the Mayans!!!!

[CDu]

Too many mistakes by Kansas. Kentucky was definitely beatable tonight. But Kansas did what they always seem to do (commit dumb mistakes). Kentucky was clearly the more talented team. But Kansas's defense was good enough tonight for them to win. Their offense (and Kentucky's shotblocking didn't help) wasn't.

[moonpie23]

congrats to those players......i blow my nose in calmari's general direction...

[FerryFor50]

Hats off to Kansas. They could have folded and didn't. Just could not put the ball in the hole... Sigh..

The bad news? Kentucky won.

The good news? I ended up winning one bracket pool and coming in 2nd on the DBR pool. Not too shabby.

[Gthoma2a]

The bad news? Kentucky won.

The good news? I ended up winning one bracket pool and coming in 2nd on the DBR pool. Not too shabby.

Mourn that victory... mourn that victory...

[Newton_14]

Too many mistakes by Kansas. Kentucky was definitely beatable tonight. But Kansas did what they always seem to do (commit dumb mistakes). Kentucky was clearly the more talented team. But Kansas's defense was good enough tonight for them to win. Their offense (and Kentucky's shotblocking didn't help) wasn't.

Turnovers, thunderdumbs (Copyrighted by my buddy Gumbomop), lack of outside shooting, and they still had a chance with 2 mins to go..


Like Native, I have no issue with this group of Kentucky kids. They had a great year. Well done.

My only solace is knowing the Ol Roy is shedding tears for his beloved Jayhawks. Losing twice in the same tournament has to hurt. :)

[FerryFor50]

Mourn that victory... mourn that victory...

Eh, it sucks... but it was inevitable, especially when UNC had all their injuries and Syracuse lost Fab Melo. I can't think of another team that had a chance to beat UK without them having an off night. Kentucky's worst enemy in this tournament seemed to be boredom and complacency.

[moonpie23]

i'm not so sure it would have been any different.......cal had these guys in a VERY un-selfish team comradery....this team VERY different than the Wall/Cousins team...


ok, cal, you've got your title.......now head to the knicks...

[sporthenry]

Eh, it sucks... but it was inevitable, especially when UNC had all their injuries and Syracuse lost Fab Melo. I can't think of another team that had a chance to beat UK without them having an off night. Kentucky's worst enemy in this tournament seemed to be boredom and complacency.

I think OSU would have given them fits. Like every other team KU played, UK folded tonight, the lead was just too big. That said, Craft gives Teague fits, and Davis would have had to cover Sullinger straight up and not come over the top like he did on T-Rob. Thomas would have provided the mismatch again but he was in foul trouble vs KU but the game would have probably come down to whether Buford could play like he did against Duke in December.

[FerryFor50]

i'm not so sure it would have been any different.......cal had these guys in a VERY un-selfish team comradery....this team VERY different than the Wall/Cousins team...


ok, cal, you've got your title.......now head to the knicks...

I feel like this team had a higher overall character... Cousins, as we've seen, is a headcase.

Hope Cal remembers how heavy the trophy is, because it will likely be taken away in a few years.

[Devilsfan]

After seeing that Ky team play basketball maybe Duke gives a 25 per cent discount to all donors!

[FerryFor50]

I think OSU would have given them fits. Like every other team KU played, UK folded tonight, the lead was just too big. That said, Craft gives Teague fits, and Davis would have had to cover Sullinger straight up and not come over the top like he did on T-Rob. Thomas would have provided the mismatch again but he was in foul trouble vs KU but the game would have probably come down to whether Buford could play like he did against Duke in December.

OSU would have given them some trouble, but it would have really depended on Buford and Thomas showing up.

[sporthenry]

OSU would have given them some trouble, but it would have really depended on Buford and Thomas showing up.

I completely agree but apart from UNC with KM, OSU was up there with teams that could compete with UK talent wise. There is a reason why Self won COY and its b/c his team overachieved, that said, I don't think the Jayhawks were best suited to give UK the best game.

[Dukehky]

Now that it's tuesday, this is the worst day of the year.

[uh_no]

Now that it's tuesday, this is the worst day of the year.

If ND wins the women's title tonight, i'm going to retire from basketball fandom forever :|

good thing the masters starting on thursday can make my memory that much shorter

[FerryFor50]

If ND wins the women's title tonight, i'm going to retire from basketball fandom forever :|

good thing the masters starting on thursday can make my memory that much shorter

Why? Huge Baylor fan? :-P

Honestly, it would take an upset of epic proportions to take down Griner. That or getting her ejected again.

[KenTankerous]

I feel like this team had a higher overall character... Cousins, as we've seen, is a headcase.

Hope Cal remembers how heavy the trophy is, because it will likely be taken away in a few years.

I am the furthest from a Calapari fan and acknowledge his past transgression but he is three years into his KY plan and nothing of substance against him has surfaced. And I gotta believe if there was anything even sniffing of impropriety, it would have surfaced by now.

This kind of allegation by past trangression smacks of jealousy and a mis-placed sense of superiority.

The man, the program, the kids just brought home a national championship to the heart and soul of college basketball.

Me thinks you throw aspersions for no better reason than one more NC you gotta catch before Duke catches UK.

Sorry, but UK had a thirty year head start...

[FerryFor50]

I am the furthest from a Calapari fan and acknowledge his past transgression but he is three years into his KY plan and nothing of substance against him has surfaced. And I gotta believe if there was anything even sniffing of impropriety, it would have surfaced by now.

This kind of allegation by past trangression smacks of jealousy and a mis-placed sense of superiority.

The man, the program, the kids just brought home a national championship to the heart and soul of college basketball.

Me thinks you throw aspersions for no better reason than one more NC you gotta catch before Duke catches UK.

Sorry, but UK had a thirty year head start...

So... let's just forget about the dirty laundry he left at UMass and Memphis and feel good because he won a NC with what seems like a good group of kids? Because he hasn't been caught for anything in 3 years?

Please.

He'd need to be clean for 10 years before I gave him any credit.

[moonpie23]

ix-nay ken......there were plenty of unsubstantiated "rumors" and innuendo regarding Cal when they met kansas in the finals in 08....

now, they've vacated that year, it's not unreasonable to think it's probable he's going to repeat...

[uh_no]

Why? Huge Baylor fan? :-P

Honestly, it would take an upset of epic proportions to take down Griner. That or getting her ejected again.

Well, in the past 15 years, uconn has lost exactly 4 times in the final 4.....3 of those have been to ND...

you can imagine a duke women's fan hates losing to uconn all the time, that's how uconn fans feel about ND right now.

[FerryFor50]

Well, in the past 15 years, uconn has lost exactly 4 times in the final 4.....3 of those have been to ND...

you can imagine a duke women's fan hates losing to uconn all the time, that's how uconn fans feel about ND right now.

I dunno... it's nice not seeing UConn, Tennessee or Stanford in the finals.

I think it was bad for women's basketball to have UConn dominate for so long.

[uh_no]

I dunno... it's nice not seeing UConn, Tennessee or Stanford in the finals.

I think it was bad for women's basketball to have UConn dominate for so long.

I could have dealt with a loss to stanford, or baylor...but it just HAD to be ND AGAIN

yeah i can see how other people might like not seeing uconn...can't say i share the same sentiment...yes i'm bitter....we lost 5 games this year...3 of which were to the same team....

[KenTankerous]

ix-nay ken......there were plenty of unsubstantiated "rumors" and innuendo regarding Cal when they met kansas in the finals in 08....

now, they've vacated that year, it's not unreasonable to think it's probable he's going to repeat...

But that's what I am saying, we aren't hearing any of this anymore. Cal has figured out a plan to stay within the letter of the rules and it is working. It's not like he didn't learn a lesson or two from those vacated final fours. And no one is bling-blind enough to think Cal would ever get a pass for something like he has done in the past or even something as innocuous as say the Corey Maggette thing. So maybe this championship isn't tainted. And maybe we ought to recognize the idea that the rules are such that someone as greasy as Cal can "play within the rules", bring home an NC, and still not graduate a senior every five players and we are all OK with that.

[Bluedog]

The Associated Press recap of the game by Eddie Pells seems to make some underhanded "compliments" to Calipari's one and done strategy. It seems as if Pells is not a fan...While it's certainly not outwardly antagonistic, he majorly emphasis the fact that these players all have the NBA on their minds in the relatively short article. It's pretty funny if you ask me:

Title:
One-and-fun: Kentucky tops Kansas 67-59 for title

First line:
No matter where Anthony Davis and his buddies go to make their millions, their ol’ Kentucky home will long remember this championship season.


The Wildcats hit the jackpot with their lottery picks Monday night ... The one-and-doners did it...Doron Lamb, a sophomore with first-round-draft-pick possibilities...Davis’ fellow lottery prospect, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist...Davis is the likely first pick in the draft should he choose to come out, and Kidd-Gilchrist won’t be far behind. Another first-round prospect, freshman Marquis Teague


If this guy [Davis] only stays one year and only makes one shot, they’re [UK fans] fine with that. It’s the new normal at Kentucky


[Calipari] goes for the best player, no matter what their long-term goals....Cal has mastered the art of rebuilding on the fly.


He’s the coach who brings in the John Walls, Brandon Knights and Derrick Roses (at Memphis) for cups of coffee, lets them sharpen up their resumes, then happily says goodbye when it becomes obvious there’s nothing left for them to do in school...The Vandy loss might have been, as Calipari put it, just what the doctor ordered for a team that could sometimes border on arrogance.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recap?gid=201204020292

I think that if Vandy didn't beat UK in the SEC finals, UK likely would not win the championship. Hard to win that many games in a row - got the monkey off their back a bit and got them refocused. But, in the end, UK was the best team in college basketball this year....Too bad Kansas couldn't complete the comeback.

[Greg_Newton]

I think OSU would have given them fits. Like every other team KU played, UK folded tonight, the lead was just too big. That said, Craft gives Teague fits, and Davis would have had to cover Sullinger straight up and not come over the top like he did on T-Rob. Thomas would have provided the mismatch again but he was in foul trouble vs KU but the game would have probably come down to whether Buford could play like he did against Duke in December.

I've heard this sentiment from a few places, but I couldn't disagree more. OSU goes 6'8-6'7 at the C and PF spots, and is not particularly long. Sullinger had enough trouble shooting over Withey; no way he's effective over Davis. Then you've got Jones, who is basically a stronger, better version of Thomas.

I thought Craft would give Taylor trouble, but it seemed like Taylor actually gave Craft more trouble than vice versa.

Anyway, I actually thought KU matched up pretty well, position-by-position. Withey did a great job neutralizing Davis on offense, but NPOY runner up Robinson simply couldn't win his matchup with Terrance Jones, UK's guards got hot, KU started missing dunks, etc. Pretty much any team would have needed everything to break their way to have a shot in this game, and KU was a travel away from a one possession game in the last minute.

Ah well. Hope Cal stays true to his guiding principles and bolts for the league now.

[Greg_Newton]

ix-nay ken......there were plenty of unsubstantiated "rumors" and innuendo regarding Cal when they met kansas in the finals in 08....

now, they've vacated that year, it's not unreasonable to think it's probable he's going to repeat...

But that's what I am saying, we aren't hearing any of this anymore. Cal has figured out a plan to stay within the letter of the rules and it is working. It's not like he didn't learn a lesson or two from those vacated final fours. And no one is bling-blind enough to think Cal would ever get a pass for something like he has done in the past or even something as innocuous as say the Corey Maggette thing. So maybe this championship isn't tainted. And maybe we ought to recognize the idea that the rules are such that someone as greasy as Cal can "play within the rules", bring home an NC, and still not graduate a senior every five players and we are all OK with that.

Well, there was the whole sources-from-three-schools-claiming-Davis's-father-solicited $125-$150k for a commitment when Davis was down to four schools. Also some other stuff from back channels I'll refrain from mongering.

Cal may well have put himself into a position to dominate without cheating, but the smoke is still there.

That brings up a kind-of interesting point, though. If we assume for the moment that a) Cal is "going clean", b) coaches of other prominent schools still pay players, you wonder if Cal might lose some top-tier recruits to, err, more generous coaches.

It's not like he'd fall from the ranks of the elite, but it would put him out of the running for certain elite prospects, much like Duke and UNC.

[Starter]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7775024/john-calipari-says-not-interested-nba-coaching-job

This strikes me as something that can change within an hour.

[SupaDave]

This strikes me as something that can change within an hour.

Billy Donovan...

[UrinalCake]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7775024/john-calipari-says-not-interested-nba-coaching-job

The quotes from Calipari sound like the kind of thing you'd say if you were staying in order to clear the air and stop all of the rumors. However, they also sound like the kind of thing you'd say if you were in fact planning on taking an NBA job and didn't want to hurt your school and/or come off as looking like a jerk in the meantime.

If Shabazz, Noel, Bennett, and company all commit to Kentucky, then in June Calipari announces he's leaving, it seems probable that the players would stay put since they're all in it together. But if Calipari comes out this week and says he's leaving, then most likely the players never make it there in the first place. So it makes sense to me that he'd claim he's staying no matter what.

[Starter]

Billy Donovan...

Exactly.


Translation: Knicks have to show me the money and give me a lot of years for security purposes in order for me to leave "my dream job".

Money is nothing to the Knicks. Dolan once thought nothing of losing a $12 million judgment after Isiah sexually harassed Anucha Browne Sanders. If I recall, the only thing he was upset about was that he still believed Zeke was innocent. It was egregious. Regardless, if they want Calipari badly enough, they'll make him the highest-paid coach in the history of the game without thinking twice about it. It'd probably be a disaster, but the whole franchise is a disaster anyway. But I could see this happening too: Woodson back-doors them into the playoffs, they get swept into oblivion by the Bulls -- but they did make the playoffs, so they'll give Woodson another crack at it. Remember, Woodson played with Isiah at Indiana. And they once extended Isiah for "eminent progress" solely because they were at that time in the No. 8 spot; they ended up missing the playoffs.

Anyway, Calipari stays at UK to do a victory lap and coach up what will probably be his usual crop of studs. Then Woodson misses the playoffs next year since his team is Amar'e with a bad back, Carmelo playing defense when he feels like it, a fragile Lin, Tyson Chandler and nothing else. The Knicks offer Cal the moon. Sound plausible?

[Dukehky]

Exactly.



Money is nothing to the Knicks. Dolan once thought nothing of losing a $12 million judgment after Isiah sexually harassed Anucha Browne Sanders. If I recall, the only thing he was upset about was that he still believed Zeke was innocent. It was egregious. Regardless, if they want Calipari badly enough, they'll make him the highest-paid coach in the history of the game without thinking twice about it. It'd probably be a disaster, but the whole franchise is a disaster anyway. But I could see this happening too: Woodson back-doors them into the playoffs, they get swept into oblivion by the Bulls -- but they did make the playoffs, so they'll give Woodson another crack at it. Remember, Woodson played with Isiah at Indiana. And they once extended Isiah for "eminent progress" solely because they were at that time in the No. 8 spot; they ended up missing the playoffs.

Anyway, Calipari stays at UK to do a victory lap and coach up what will probably be his usual crop of studs. Then Woodson misses the playoffs next year since his team is Amar'e with a bad back, Carmelo playing defense when he feels like it, a fragile Lin, Tyson Chandler and nothing else. The Knicks offer Cal the moon. Sound plausible?

You are forgetting that there is a very distinct possibility that one of the top 3 best coaches in the history of sports is likely in the running for this job once it opens up. I highly doubt that Mr. Phil Jackson is going to have to worry about John Calipari taking the Knicks job if he wants it. In my opinion, if it's offered for the right price, the Zen Master is coming out of retirement.

[MCFinARL]

Exactly.



Money is nothing to the Knicks. Dolan once thought nothing of losing a $12 million judgment after Isiah sexually harassed Anucha Browne Sanders. If I recall, the only thing he was upset about was that he still believed Zeke was innocent. It was egregious. Regardless, if they want Calipari badly enough, they'll make him the highest-paid coach in the history of the game without thinking twice about it. It'd probably be a disaster, but the whole franchise is a disaster anyway. But I could see this happening too: Woodson back-doors them into the playoffs, they get swept into oblivion by the Bulls -- but they did make the playoffs, so they'll give Woodson another crack at it. Remember, Woodson played with Isiah at Indiana. And they once extended Isiah for "eminent progress" solely because they were at that time in the No. 8 spot; they ended up missing the playoffs.

Anyway, Calipari stays at UK to do a victory lap and coach up what will probably be his usual crop of studs. Then Woodson misses the playoffs next year since his team is Amar'e with a bad back, Carmelo playing defense when he feels like it, a fragile Lin, Tyson Chandler and nothing else. The Knicks offer Cal the moon. Sound plausible?

Maybe so, but would Calipari really want to go to the NBA at this point? At Kentucky, he gets pretty close to his choice of the very best players playing at the college level, so his team is going to have superior talent (and often vastly superior talent) to almost every other team they face. And most of these kids are still coachable (maybe not DeMarcus Cousins) and come in respecting the coach and believing they have something to learn from him. At the college level, the coach of a successful major program is a superstar who gets most of the credit and often some lucrative endorsement or other money-making opportunities, and he is truly in charge of the program. At the NBA level, the coach is more often a potential fall guy, a ping pong ball between a demanding front office and a highly paid roster who often see themselves as more important than the coach and may or may not be interested in adapting to the coach's system or methods, the guy who gets little of the credit when things go well and almost all when they go badly (maybe not Phil Jackson--there's always an exception).

Even on the money--you'd have to pay someone a heck of a lot more to even approach in NY the lifestyle he could have in Lexington, KY on $3 million a year (IIRC that's about what Calipari makes). The taxes are horrific (federal, state, and city taxes) and the cost of living is worse. Maybe if Calipari loves going to the opera or art museums, NYC would be better, but when would he have time?

Plus I don't think Calipari enjoyed his last stint in the NBA all that much. On average, sure, being a coach in the NBA is a better and more prestigious job than being a coach in college. But better than being the guy who brought Kentucky its most recent championship? Better than being, just for another example, Coach K? I don't think so--too many hassles, not enough authority.

[MCFinARL]

Being an NBA coach may not be all that more prestigious, but bringing the NY Knicks their first NBA championship in 40+ years would go waaaay beyond that. That said, I don't think World Wide Wes would want Calipari competing directly against Jay-Z's Brooklyn Nets for the NY market.

Agreed--But I don't think Calipari would have nearly the power to draw the best talent to the Knicks that he does to Kentucky--too many variables. So it would be mighty hard to get that championship.


They don't need to graduate; they just need to be in good academic standing when they leave.

Don't remember all of the details of APR calculation, though I think having a certain number of athletes stay in school has some impact. Even if it is only leaving in good academic standing, though, that might raise some questions about Kentucky. Pretty sure, based on what was reported at the time, that one or two of the players who left Kentucky in 2010 would not have been in "good academic standing" going forward. Question: Is there a loophole allowing one-and-done players to withdraw from spring semester classes after the season ends, so that they could, essentially, quit school after one semester, having played during the second semester, and still be considered "in good academic standing"?

[Des Esseintes]

You are forgetting that there is a very distinct possibility that one of the top 3 best coaches in the history of sports is likely in the running for this job once it opens up. I highly doubt that Mr. Phil Jackson is going to have to worry about John Calipari taking the Knicks job if he wants it. In my opinion, if it's offered for the right price, the Zen Master is coming out of retirement.

Phil Jackson is not taking that job. The only reason it's even being talked about is wishful thinking by the Dolans. Jackson cannot win a championship with that management. The guy has never coached a season without one of the top five players in basketball, and he usually had two of those. In New York he wouldn't have a top ten player, maybe not even a top 15 or 20 player. What he would have is Isaiah working the strings in the background. Not happening.

[TruBlu]

Agreed--But I don't think Calipari would have nearly the power to draw the best talent to the Knicks that he does to Kentucky--too many variables. So it would be mighty hard to get that championship.

True. There is probably a team salary cap with the Knicks.

[Duke 4 Life]

I agree, and probably not as high as the one he has now. lol

[Starter]

Maybe so, but would Calipari really want to go to the NBA at this point? At Kentucky, he gets pretty close to his choice of the very best players playing at the college level, so his team is going to have superior talent (and often vastly superior talent) to almost every other team they face. And most of these kids are still coachable (maybe not DeMarcus Cousins) and come in respecting the coach and believing they have something to learn from him. At the college level, the coach of a successful major program is a superstar who gets most of the credit and often some lucrative endorsement or other money-making opportunities, and he is truly in charge of the program. At the NBA level, the coach is more often a potential fall guy, a ping pong ball between a demanding front office and a highly paid roster who often see themselves as more important than the coach and may or may not be interested in adapting to the coach's system or methods, the guy who gets little of the credit when things go well and almost all when they go badly (maybe not Phil Jackson--there's always an exception).

Even on the money--you'd have to pay someone a heck of a lot more to even approach in NY the lifestyle he could have in Lexington, KY on $3 million a year (IIRC that's about what Calipari makes). The taxes are horrific (federal, state, and city taxes) and the cost of living is worse. Maybe if Calipari loves going to the opera or art museums, NYC would be better, but when would he have time?

Plus I don't think Calipari enjoyed his last stint in the NBA all that much. On average, sure, being a coach in the NBA is a better and more prestigious job than being a coach in college. But better than being the guy who brought Kentucky its most recent championship? Better than being, just for another example, Coach K? I don't think so--too many hassles, not enough authority.

All of these points are duly noted, but I think you may be underestimating Calipari's burning ambition. I think it still stings him that he couldn't hang in the pros the first time, and I'd imagine he wants to right that wrong. And CAA has their tentacles so wrapped around the Knicks that I'd imagine they'd love to broker that deal. (The only reasonable explanation I can think of for signing J.R. Smith is that CAA mandated it.) I'd say $10 million makes up for any sort of cost of living difference between Kentucky and New York or the surrounding suburbs. I have no idea if Calipari frequents museums.

Personally, I feel like now that he's put the notch of a college National Championship in his belt, all bets are off. It's been pretty well documented that it rankles Calipari that he has unfinished business on the next level. I'm not saying this is definitely going to happen, but I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out, be it this year or next.

[Kfanarmy]

True. There is probably a team salary cap with the Knicks. yes, and it may be lower than the UK boosters cap ;-)