Silent G

[dukedoc]

I was curious to hear thoughts on Silent G, particularly in light of Austin's lavish praise in the article linked to the front page. I knew G was athletic, but Austin puts that characteristic into full relief:

“A lot of people haven’t had a chance to see how good Mike Gbinije is. He’s a freak athlete. With him working hard this summer, he can be a really big lift for the team next year.... Our best athlete on the team, as far as just jumping wise, Mike is one of the best leapers I’ve ever seen. He’s a very, very athletic dude."

I know this has been discussed off and on in other threads, but I couldn't find a clear discussion of G's limited role this past season and what we're expecting for next year. We can play all sorts of mind tricks in order to inflate the size of our incoming class with the redshirts and all, but I think it's fair to say G will get much more burn next year, almost like adding another new player to the mix. Are others as excited as I am about him?

[OldPhiKap]

I was curious to hear thoughts on Silent G, particularly in light of Austin's lavish praise in the article linked to the front page. I knew G was athletic, but Austin puts that characteristic into full relief:

“A lot of people haven’t had a chance to see how good Mike Gbinije is. He’s a freak athlete. With him working hard this summer, he can be a really big lift for the team next year.... Our best athlete on the team, as far as just jumping wise, Mike is one of the best leapers I’ve ever seen. He’s a very, very athletic dude."

I know this has been discussed off and on in other threads, but I couldn't find a clear discussion of G's limited role this past season and what we're expecting for next year. We can play all sorts of mind tricks in order to inflate the size of our incoming class with the redshirts and all, but I think it's fair to say G will get much more burn next year, almost like adding another new player to the mix. Are others as excited as I am about him?

I am very excited to see {g} develop his skills and to play a bigger role as he progresses. He is an important part of the puzzle going forward.

[Gthoma2a]

I was curious to hear thoughts on Silent G, particularly in light of Austin's lavish praise in the article linked to the front page. I knew G was athletic, but Austin puts that characteristic into full relief:

“A lot of people haven’t had a chance to see how good Mike Gbinije is. He’s a freak athlete. With him working hard this summer, he can be a really big lift for the team next year.... Our best athlete on the team, as far as just jumping wise, Mike is one of the best leapers I’ve ever seen. He’s a very, very athletic dude."

I know this has been discussed off and on in other threads, but I couldn't find a clear discussion of G's limited role this past season and what we're expecting for next year. We can play all sorts of mind tricks in order to inflate the size of our incoming class with the redshirts and all, but I think it's fair to say G will get much more burn next year, almost like adding another new player to the mix. Are others as excited as I am about him?

I have thought the same thing since I heard he was coming to Duke and watched some of the plays he made in HS. He will need to work a little on his handle to utilize all of his ability, but he is awesome. He is not just athletic, but very smooth. Watching him play, he doesn't just turn the burners on. He plays in a way that isn't like Austin, but when he gets near the rim, he can attack it like few others. He reminds me of Gerald Henderson a bit, but he has already shown a little more ability to utilize a consistent jumper. He should be a huge asset.

[Devilsfan]

I have wondered why he wasn't given more PT this year.

[Dukehky]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not expecting much from Mike next year. He had the entire year to prove himself in practice and subsequently get game experience in a position where it was blatantly obvious that we needed help (SF). What i realistically expect from him next year is to become at least a serviceable role player, 10-15 minutes a game where he can grab some boards and if nothing else just be long. He certainly has the abilities to become a very good player, but he is just so raw on the basketball court that I'm trying not to set my sights too high on the kid, especially for next year. He is reminiscent of Gerald in the type of body he is, but he is no where near ball player that G was after his freshman year, and its a pretty unfair comparison (Gerald was a top 10 pick)

[Gthoma2a]

I have wondered why he wasn't given more PT this year.

I think we were busy trying to keep Seth, Dre, Austin and Tyler on the floor at all costs. I think it could have helped out to have more athleticism out there, but from the lineups we saw, K didn't. I hope we find better options. It would be nice to see fewer pass only and stationary shoot only players out at one time. I think the growth of Quinn, Gbinije, Rasheed coming in and Alex will lead to a lot more athleticism at any given time. We may end up with lineups that can stop dribble penetration, stop people from making unobstructed cuts, etc.

[NashvilleDevil]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not expecting much from Mike next year. He had the entire year to prove himself in practice and subsequently get game experience in a position where it was blatantly obvious that we needed help (SF). What i realistically expect from him next year is to become at least a serviceable role player, 10-15 minutes a game where he can grab some boards and if nothing else just be long. He certainly has the abilities to become a very good player, but he is just so raw on the basketball court that I'm trying not to set my sights too high on the kid, especially for next year. He is reminiscent of Gerald in the type of body he is, but he is no where near ball player that G was after his freshman year, and its a pretty unfair comparison (Gerald was a top 10 pick)

Gerald was the 12th pick in his draft. I think G becomes a big contributer. He just needs to pick up the defense because the opportunity is there for him to be a huge part of the team next year. I think he can make a Thomas Hill like jump next year.

[COYS]

Gerald was the 12th pick in his draft. I think G becomes a big contributer. He just needs to pick up the defense because the opportunity is there for him to be a huge part of the team next year. I think he can make a Thomas Hill like jump next year.

G's defense wasn't quite where it needed to be and his offense was still raw, which made it hard to leave him on the court. I'd bet that his offensive game will still be a little raw next year (though I'm sure he'll be better) unless he proves to be a really good perimeter shooter. However, I think his size, length, and quickness will enable him to make the leap on the defensive end pretty quickly. Lance Thomas always had the skill to be a good defender. It took him awhile to rise to the occasion. Mike G is in the same boat. I expect that we'll recognize him as an elite defender by the time all is said and done.

[dcar1985]

G's defense wasn't quite where it needed to be and his offense was still raw, which made it hard to leave him on the court. I'd bet that his offensive game will still be a little raw next year (though I'm sure he'll be better) unless he proves to be a really good perimeter shooter. However, I think his size, length, and quickness will enable him to make the leap on the defensive end pretty quickly. Lance Thomas always had the skill to be a good defender. It took him awhile to rise to the occasion. Mike G is in the same boat. I expect that we'll recognize him as an elite defender by the time all is said and done.

For as raw as people are saying Mikes offensive game is...he actually shot the ball very well. 40% from 3 in his limited attempts.

[Gthoma2a]

For as raw as people are saying Mikes offensive game is...he actually shot the ball very well. 40% from 3 in his limited attempts.

His shot was fine. The only problem I saw for Michael was that he wasn't put out in big moments and he seemed like he didn't have confidence because of that. With a push from the coaching staff, he would be a completely different player IMO. He is the type of guy with all of the skills and ability, but he needs to know that he can do all of those things on this stage. The coaching staff believing could be a big step in that direction.

[dairedevil]

It would be nice for him not to live up to the moniker "silent G". He didn't make much "noise" on the court this year - either on offense or defense. I'm glad to hear Austin praise him, and look forward to seeing him grow as a player next year.

[Devilsfan]

Hope his not playing will cause him to try harder. Players react to his type of treatment in different ways.

[JNort]

It would be nice for him not to live up to the moniker "silent G". He didn't make much "noise" on the court this year - either on offense or defense. I'm glad to hear Austin praise him, and look forward to seeing him grow as a player next year.

Well the "Silent G" nickname is actually because he played so well and efficiently in high school but you never noticed it happening.

[ArkieDukie]

Well the "Silent G" nickname is actually because he played so well and efficiently in high school but you never noticed it happening.

Are you sure? I thought it alluded to the pronunciation of his last name. You know, the silent G at the beginning of his name?

[dcar1985]

Are you sure? I thought it alluded to the pronunciation of his last name. You know, the silent G at the beginning of his name?

Yea im pretty sure that's were it originated...plus the fact that he's real quiet dude off the court

[loldevilz]

Are you sure? I thought it alluded to the pronunciation of his last name. You know, the silent G at the beginning of his name?

It also alludes to Lil' Wayne's lyric "Real G's move in silence like Lasagna"

[scottdude8]

It was a big relief when I saw Austin mention Gbinije as part of Duke's future, because I for one was very nervous he might transfer. To be a 4/5 star recruit and barely see the floor when you know you could be making a difference, especially defensively (you can't tell me he couldn't have guarded Harrison Barnes better than Tyler could, as much as I love my TT), had to be extremely frustrating. If he stays, him and Robocop make a dangerous pair as true small forwards.

[turnandburn55]

It was a big relief when I saw Austin mention Gbinije as part of Duke's future, because I for one was very nervous he might transfer. To be a 4/5 star recruit and barely see the floor when you know you could be making a difference, especially defensively (you can't tell me he couldn't have guarded Harrison Barnes better than Tyler could, as much as I love my TT), had to be extremely frustrating. If he stays, him and Robocop make a dangerous pair as true small forwards.

I suppose you could ask 5-star recruit Ryan Kelly what his freshman year was like as well.

[roywhite]

It was a big relief when I saw Austin mention Gbinije as part of Duke's future, because I for one was very nervous he might transfer. To be a 4/5 star recruit and barely see the floor when you know you could be making a difference, especially defensively (you can't tell me he couldn't have guarded Harrison Barnes better than Tyler could, as much as I love my TT), had to be extremely frustrating. If he stays, him and Robocop make a dangerous pair as true small forwards.

Okay, I'm puzzled by a few things here:
Was there a reason you used the t-word in regards to Mike Gbinije's future?
Did you watch Mike when he actually played and did he demonstrate that he was ready for more minutes and responsbility this past season?
Also, what leads you to describe Alex Murphy as a true small forward?

[MChambers]

I suppose you could ask 5-star recruit Ryan Kelly what his freshman year was like as well.
I've been thinking Brian Davis might be a good comparison for Silent G, although Slient G is a little more athletic and was more highly rated coming out of high school. Two 6'7" guys, long, good jumpers. Brian had a very good career, after playing very little as a freshman.

I remember seeing Brian as a freshman in 1988, put in for the final few seconds of the first of a game at Cole Field House, harassing the Maryland guard who was bringing the ball up. As the half ended, Coach K ran out on the floor to praise Brian. Pretty sure I was there, but could have seen it on TV.

[CajunDevil]

G's defense was not the issue, nor was his offense. I agree that we tried to keep Seth, Dre and Austin on floor as much as possible and this meant limited minutes for G - which was short- sighted on the staff's part, IMHO. The two things we lacked this year were a 3 with size and athleticism, and he could have helped with both.

[Des Esseintes]

I am very excited to see {g} develop his skills and to play a bigger role as he progresses. He is an important part of the puzzle going forward.

{g} is hilarious. Nominated for standardization of nickname.

[Des Esseintes]

G's defense was not the issue, nor was his offense. I agree that we tried to keep Seth, Dre and Austin on floor as much as possible and this meant limited minutes for G - which was short- sighted on the staff's part, IMHO. The two things we lacked this year were a 3 with size and athleticism, and he could have helped with both.

Good to know. Just curious--how did you come by this information?

[sagegrouse]

Okay, I'm puzzled by a few things here:
Was there a reason you used the t-word in regards to Mike Gbinije's future?
Did you watch Mike when he actually played and did he demonstrate that he was ready for more minutes and responsbility this past season?
Also, what leads you to describe Alex Murphy as a true small forward?

Am I the only one to think that an Academic All-ACC shows that he has settled in quite nicely to the Duke experience? Have we ever had a player transfer with such academic credentials?

sagegrouse

[ArkieDukie]

Am I the only one to think that an Academic All-ACC shows that he has settled in quite nicely to the Duke experience? Have we ever had a player transfer with such academic credentials?

sagegrouse

Was Crawford Palmer an Academic All-ACC?

[scottdude8]

To respond to a couple things:

-I don't think Ryan Kelly is at all an analogous situation, considering that, despite coming in as a five star recruit, his body wasn't ready for collegiate competition. Plus, there just weren't minutes to go around for him, considering we already had a stacked front court. But you can't tell me there wasn't 5-10 minutes a game for Gbinije to come in and play some defense, especially considering the way a guy like Seth faded down the stretch, possibly due to exhaustion.

-I used the "t-word" for a very specific reason, although the story behind it might be considered "rumor mongering" by the moderators, so I'm just going to stay away from that issue. But it seems to be a legitimate fear amongst many fans.

-Calling Murphy a "true" small forward might've been an exaggeration, but what I meant was simply that he's more of a small forward than any of the "third" guards we played this season, both offensively and defensively. And K has always said he views him as a perimeter Singler type.

[fgb]

-I used the "t-word" for a very specific reason, although the story behind it might be considered "rumor mongering" by the moderators, so I'm just going to stay away from that issue. But it seems to be a legitimate fear amongst many fans.
.

it's been a worry of mine since about halfway through the season, when is seemed clear that we needed someone with length and athleticism to defend on the perimeter; and we had someone like that, and we weren't using him. not that he was ready; i trust k on that. it was just hard not to imagine how he must have been feeling from where he sat.

[airowe]

To clear a few things up:

1) I gave him the Silent G nickname due to the pronunciation of his last name and his quiet effectiveness on the court.

2) He's not transferring.

3) Michael was sick to the point of needing IVs at times during the season. He missed practice time and clearly wasn't able to get fully up to speed as a freshman trying to adjust to being an elite level college basketball player.

[CajunDevil]

Good to know. Just curious--how did you come by this information?

No inside info here. But, his offense wasn't poor (40% from 3, and an impressive ability to get to the hoop), and in his limited action he was a good defender. Did you watch him when he played? He appeared no worse than our other options with a higher long-term upside.

[Newton_14]

To clear a few things up:

1) I gave him the Silent G nickname due to the pronunciation of his last name and his quiet effectiveness on the court.

2) He's not transferring.

3) Michael was sick to the point of needing IVs at times during the season. He missed practice time and clearly wasn't able to get fully up to speed as a freshman trying to adjust to being an elite level college basketball player.

Thanks Adam. Bringing facts into the conversation always helps in these situations. Appreciate the real information.

I would also like to remind folks of the rumor mongering rule.

[Kedsy]

No inside info here. But, his offense wasn't poor (40% from 3, and an impressive ability to get to the hoop)...

I disagree. His offense was poor. Or "raw" might be a better word. Most of the time he didn't seem to understand where he was supposed to be in the offensive scheme. And the 40% from three isn't so impressive when you only take 10 three point attempts and two of your four makes were in the same game.


...and in his limited action he was a good defender. Did you watch him when he played? He appeared no worse than our other options with a higher long-term upside.

I did watch him when he played, and I wasn't so impressed with his defense. Moreover, "appeared no worse" isn't exactly a standard that would seem to mandate more minutes. People who wanted him to play more all point to our glaring need for a wing defender, but there's really no evidence that he could have adequately filled that need this season.

I really hope Mike works hard over the summer and puts it together. We have had players with great length and leaping ability that have made the jump and become important players for us, and we have had players with those attributes who never did (e.g., Tony Moore, Carmen Wallace, Olek Czyz). I'm still betting on Mike ending up on the good side of that ledger, but you never know until it happens.

[dcar1985]

I disagree. His offense was poor. Or "raw" might be a better word. Most of the time he didn't seem to understand where he was supposed to be in the offensive scheme. And the 40% from three isn't so impressive when you only take 10 three point attempts and two of your four makes were in the same game.

I agree that he looked lost sometimes on the court, but that doesn't really mean his offensive game is poor or raw just that he hadn't grasped the system yet....regardless of how many he took, he's still gotta hit doesn't he?!? He shot 60% overall



I did watch him when he played, and I wasn't so impressed with his defense. Moreover, "appeared no worse" isn't exactly a standard that would seem to mandate more minutes. People who wanted him to play more all point to our glaring need for a wing defender, but there's really no evidence that he could have adequately filled that need this season.

I don't think we saw enough to say he couldn't have helped either....I definitely think it would've been a good move to give him some minutes and earn some valuable experience, I seriously doubt he could have been as bad as Dre over the last few weeks of the season for him not to grab a few of those minutes.


I really hope Mike works hard over the summer and puts it together. We have had players with great length and leaping ability that have made the jump and become important players for us, and we have had players with those attributes who never did (e.g., Tony Moore, Carmen Wallace, Olek Czyz). I'm still betting on Mike ending up on the good side of that ledger, but you never know until it happens.

[Kedsy]

regardless of how many he took, he's still gotta hit doesn't he?!?

Miles Plumlee is a 100% career three-point shooter (1 for 1). That's marginally less meaningful than Mike Gbinije hitting 4 of 10, but I don't think we should extrapolate too much from either sample.

[dukedoc]

To clear a few things up:

1) I gave him the Silent G nickname due to the pronunciation of his last name and his quiet effectiveness on the court.

2) He's not transferring.

3) Michael was sick to the point of needing IVs at times during the season. He missed practice time and clearly wasn't able to get fully up to speed as a freshman trying to adjust to being an elite level college basketball player.

Thanks for this insight. I recalled that he was unwell off and on but didn't know the severity nor the cumulative toll it took on his season. It's not hard to see how illness can profoundly impact an athlete's season like that, particularly when playing at such a high level of competition and also while already trying to climb the steep learning curve of freshman year.

The more I understand about his intrinsic athleticism and the contributions of illness in limiting his trajectory last season, the more I'm excited to see how he'll contribute next year, while hopefully maintaining good health. More than just the redshirts, its seems {g} may be, to some extent, a player we didn't truly get to see in earnest this past season.

[UrinalCake]

I might be reading into this too much, but I sort of interpret Austin's comments to mean that Gbinije NEEDS to put in some work this summer in order to be able to contribute. In other words, he's not ready yet but could get there by working hard. He's got the physical tools and just needs to develop his skills.

I hope he does and gets to develop his all-around game. I'm not one of the people who seem to think that just plugging an "athlete" onto the floor would have improved our team this past year. We were plenty athletic compared to Lehigh, had a lot more alley-oop dunks than they did, but we still lost the game. Anyways, I think G will be a valuable asset next year, and his role could be anywhere from 5-10 minute bench player to solid rotation player, depending on how he develops.

[sagegrouse]

Was Crawford Palmer an Academic All-ACC?

No, he wasn't, although I understand he was a good student. I believe he had graduated from Duke before attending the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth, where he played hoops for a year.

But I did find an Academic All-ACC who did transfer -- Mike Chappell.

sage

[dcar1985]

I might be reading into this too much, but I sort of interpret Austin's comments to mean that Gbinije NEEDS to put in some work this summer in order to be able to contribute. In other words, he's not ready yet but could get there by working hard. He's got the physical tools and just needs to develop his skills.

I hope he does and gets to develop his all-around game. I'm not one of the people who seem to think that just plugging an "athlete" onto the floor would have improved our team this past year. We were plenty athletic compared to Lehigh, had a lot more alley-oop dunks than they did, but we still lost the game. Anyways, I think G will be a valuable asset next year, and his role could be anywhere from 5-10 minute bench player to solid rotation player, depending on how he develops.

If you think about it though...all our athleticism was in our bigs, we didn't have super athletes at the perimeter spots....definitely weren't throwing any oops to those guys, not that its the end all be all but on the season we only had 5 dunks from our perimeter guys. Mike accounting for 2 of em in the few minutes he got....I think people are selling him short to think he couldn't have added some versatility to the team and that's fine, hopefully he comes in next year ready to prove people wrong....

I could be wrong and of course everyone needs to get better but I seriously don't think it was a lack of skill that kept him off the floor, everyone keeps mentioning how raw he looked and I don't get it, he's already more comfortable with the ball in his hands than Andre. To me he clearly had trouble picking up the system and wasn't sure were to be at all times while out there....I don't think that means his game isn't at this level yet.

You look at the type of plays we would want from a long athletic perimeter guy and he actually made those plays....ex. He was the only perimeter guy I remember scoring off a post up taking advantage of his smaller defender, crashing the board for a putback, cutting baseline on a back door cut for a dunk. Those are the kinds of plays I want out of my SF.

[miramar]

But I did find an Academic All-ACC who did transfer -- Mike Chappell.

sage

I always felt bad about Mike Chappell. For a while he was the best three point shooter on the team, but then he lost his touch and lost his job to CWell IIRC. He won a national championship at Michigan State, which I was glad to see at the time, but still hadn't found his shot. He had a long international career, so I guess it worked out in the end.

[SupaDave]

Thanks for this insight. I recalled that he was unwell off and on but didn't know the severity nor the cumulative toll it took on his season. It's not hard to see how illness can profoundly impact an athlete's season like that, particularly when playing at such a high level of competition and also while already trying to climb the steep learning curve of freshman year.

The more I understand about his intrinsic athleticism and the contributions of illness in limiting his trajectory last season, the more I'm excited to see how he'll contribute next year, while hopefully maintaining good health. More than just the redshirts, its seems {g} may be, to some extent, a player we didn't truly get to see in earnest this past season.

Kinda reminds me of Gerald and his "asthma" situation.

[ncexnyc]

If you think about it though...all our athleticism was in our bigs, we didn't have super athletes at the perimeter spots....definitely weren't throwing any oops to those guys, not that its the end all be all but on the season we only had 5 dunks from our perimeter guys. Mike accounting for 2 of em in the few minutes he got....I think people are selling him short to think he couldn't have added some versatility to the team and that's fine, hopefully he comes in next year ready to prove people wrong....

I could be wrong and of course everyone needs to get better but I seriously don't think it was a lack of skill that kept him off the floor, everyone keeps mentioning how raw he looked and I don't get it, he's already more comfortable with the ball in his hands than Andre. To me he clearly had trouble picking up the system and wasn't sure were to be at all times while out there....I don't think that means his game isn't at this level yet.

You look at the type of plays we would want from a long athletic perimeter guy and he actually made those plays....ex. He was the only perimeter guy I remember scoring off a post up taking advantage of his smaller defender, crashing the board for a putback, cutting baseline on a back door cut for a dunk. Those are the kinds of plays I want out of my SF.

We've had a similar discussion with Quinn should have been getting more playing time than Tyler. That came down to the fact that Tyler played better D and communicated better on the court, two things which Coach K puts a great deal of stock in.

For Mike it came down to knowing the system and proving it in practice. He did look lost on the court at times. I mentioned this in my review of the WF game I attended. I made a concerted effort to watch for this, as I doubted what was being said about the kid, especially since we had such a glaring need for the tools he brought to the table, but sadly enough I saw it for myself.

Now you can mark me down as being an advocate of throwing a kid into the fire and letting him learn on the fly, which appears to be what you and several others were looking for especially considering our lack of a true SF, but that's just not the way K rolls. Based on the info we learned about Mike's medical woes this past season it's easy to see why he never quite got up to snuff.

I look forward to seeing Mike show us what he really has and I'm confident he'll show some serious improvement over last season.

[scottdude8]

To clear a few things up:

1) I gave him the Silent G nickname due to the pronunciation of his last name and his quiet effectiveness on the court.

2) He's not transferring.

3) Michael was sick to the point of needing IVs at times during the season. He missed practice time and clearly wasn't able to get fully up to speed as a freshman trying to adjust to being an elite level college basketball player.

What's your evidence to support this rather certain assertion?

[superdave]

What's your evidence to support this rather certain assertion?

Airowe has 7 pitchforks under his name and a solid reputation for info such as this. It's enough for me to believe him!

[airowe]

What's your evidence to support this rather certain assertion?

I can't really provide any evidence on the board. I apologize for that, but I'm not one to make declarative statements if I don't have reliable information to support them. If anything, I guess my record on matters such as these will have to suffice but I understand if you have your doubts as we have never met.

[DukieInBrasil]

What's your evidence to support this rather certain assertion?

why do you keep up with this assertion that he is/will/wants to transfer? Every time you bring it up it's as lame as the first time. It's simply rumor-mongering.

[FerryFor50]

Airowe has 7 pitchforks under his name and a solid reputation for info such as this. It's enough for me to believe him!

Where is your evidence to support the assertion that he has 7 pitchforks...

oh wait. :)

As a side note, it would probably be good to have a sticky up that talks a bit about how this board is frequented by reliable and accurate sources of information. I remember a while back, in one of my first posts, I questioned jimsumner... not realizing that he was the ACTUAL Jim Sumner.

It gets confusing when you have members with real names and then members with names like "Greg_Newton" or "Ferryfor50" because we are definitively not those people.

And is "superdave" really super? So many questions... :p

[COYS]

Where is your evidence to support the assertion that he has 7 pitchforks...

oh wait. :)

As a side note, it would probably be good to have a sticky up that talks a bit about how this board is frequented by reliable and accurate sources of information. I remember a while back, in one of my first posts, I questioned jimsumner... not realizing that he was the ACTUAL Jim Sumner.

It gets confusing when you have members with real names and then members with names like "Greg_Newton" or "Ferryfor50" because we are definitively not those people.

And is "superdave" really super? So many questions... :p

That's a great idea, actually. I've been around these parts long enough now to know the difference between the pitchfork guys (and gals) and the pitchfork guys (and gals) who also happen to have good insider info even if they can't reveal their sources. But that is something I only learned with time.

[turnandburn55]

I always felt bad about Mike Chappell. For a while he was the best three point shooter on the team, but then he lost his touch and lost his job to CWell IIRC. He won a national championship at Michigan State, which I was glad to see at the time, but still hadn't found his shot. He had a long international career, so I guess it worked out in the end.

Me too. I would've been curious to see how he would've fit into the 2000 team as a senior.

[FerryFor50]

That's a great idea, actually. I've been around these parts long enough now to know the difference between the pitchfork guys (and gals) and the pitchfork guys (and gals) who also happen to have good insider info even if they can't reveal their sources. But that is something I only learned with time.

Who is COYS? WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS! :p

[COYS]

Who is COYS? WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS! :p

I can assure you I have absolutely zero inside info =).

[Kedsy]

I think people are selling him short to think he couldn't have added some versatility to the team and that's fine, hopefully he comes in next year ready to prove people wrong....

Since most of the people who say he wasn't ready this season appear to believe he can be a big contributor next season, how can anything he does next year "prove people wrong"?

[CDu]

Since most of the people who say he wasn't ready this season appear to believe he can be a big contributor next season, how can anything he does next year "prove people wrong"?

An excellent point. Being not ready this year and being ready next year are not mutually exclusive scenarios. For whatever reason, Gbinije wasn't ready to contribute this year. Hopefully, whatever issues were in play will be resolved this offseason and he'll be ready to provide length, athleticism, and versatility to our perimeter.

[COYS]

Since most of the people who say he wasn't ready this season appear to believe he can be a big contributor next season, how can anything he does next year "prove people wrong"?

Exactly! The only reason I didn't call on Mike to get more playing time is because when he was in, he looked a little raw on the offensive end and inexperienced on defense. Andre, his primary competition for minutes at the 3, was also inconsistent but offered a lot more on offense (most of the time). He was capable of very good plays, but there was no consistency and he was out of position a lot on both sides of the ball. Count me as one who believes that all the physical tools are there for him and one year of hard work and experience will make all the difference.

[OldPhiKap]

Since most of the people who say he wasn't ready this season appear to believe he can be a big contributor next season, how can anything he does next year "prove people wrong"?

Very good point.

Time for us all to stop worrying about last year and focus on the future. (g) has a lot of upside and I hope he comes out as a human dynamo. The only thing he has to "prove" is to himself and the coaching staff.

[dcar1985]

Since most of the people who say he wasn't ready this season appear to believe he can be a big contributor next season, how can anything he does next year "prove people wrong"?

b/c there have been plenty of others speaking the exact opposite on his potential to contribute....since I doubt either one of us has taken a survey on the numbers for both sides of it why are you questioning my statement? If you think he'll contribute next year then great, if not hopefully he proves you wrong....I've said multiple times I don't think he was ready this year, it was clear he didn't know the system, only thing I've questioned is the thinking that he wasn't skilled enough to play..that's all.

[Big Pappa]

Miles Plumlee is a 100% career three-point shooter (1 for 1). That's marginally less meaningful than Mike Gbinije hitting 4 of 10, but I don't think we should extrapolate too much from either sample.

Miles is tied for 1st in career three-point percentage in the history of the NCAA. Actually he's tied for 1st for any level of basketball, ever.

[Saratoga2]

The 2011/2012 team started off the season with many solid wins, but continually had trouble starting off well and also finishing games. As the season wore on, we took some unexpected losses at home and some of the players (Andre, Seth) didn't play up to expectations on some ocassions. Clearly the team had problems guarding quick penetrators and also were mismatched when the other team could bring size at guard and small forward. Losing Ryan at the end just magnified the problems of matching up.

We start next season with two PG players, three shooting guard players/prospects (Andre, Rasheed and Seth) and two small forward prospects. Of course we are all awaiting to hear if Mason will stay. If he does we have four front court players/prospects. We are covered, even without further recruits. Perhaps a wild card in this scenario is if Seth can show better PG instincts, but that is somewhat unlikely. Based on end of year performance, I would expect Andre to move down in the order and Michael (silent G) or Alex to move up.

So what are the expected likeups for next season?

PG- Tyler (start); Quinn (backup); Seth (2nd backup)

SG- Seth (Start); Rasheed (backup); Andre (2nd backup)

SF- Michael (start); Alex (backup); Andre (2nd Backup)

PF- Ryan (start); Mason (backup); Josh (2nd backup)

C- Mason (start); Marshall (backup)

Losing Mason and or getting Tony Parker or Shebazz (sp) would shake things up. We should know more after April 11th

[Bluedog]

Based on end of year performance, I would expect Andre to move down in the order and Michael (silent G) or Alex to move up.

So what are the expected likeups for next season?

PG- Tyler (start); Quinn (backup); Seth (2nd backup)

SG- Seth (Start); Rasheed (backup); Andre (2nd backup)

SF- Michael (start); Alex (backup); Andre (2nd Backup)

PF- Ryan (start); Mason (backup); Josh (2nd backup)

C- Mason (start); Marshall (backup)

Losing Mason and or getting Tony Parker or Shebazz (sp) would shake things up. We should know more after April 11th

You'd expect two guys who sat on the bench (including one who has never played a collegiate game) to overtake a guy who played in 109 games and averaged over 22 mpg last season? Maybe by the end of the season that is possible, but I don't see it happening right off the bat. Proven commodities get the start from Coach K at the beginning of the season, so unless Mike G or Alex tear it up over the summer, I'd think Andre is the tentative starter at the SF slot to begin the season. It's possible Alex really impresses and Andre is the first backup, but I don't see him being the 2nd backup at both the 2 and 3 with the amount of experience he has in the program. It's also tough to say how Rasheed will fit in at the beginning, but I really like his potential and think he will be a really solid player for us. Definitely a lot can change before next season, though, so really hard to predict starting lineups at this point (especially when we don't know if Mason will be back and who, if anybody, is coming in).

[OldPhiKap]

The 2011/2012 team started off the season with many solid wins, but continually had trouble starting off well and also finishing games. As the season wore on, we took some unexpected losses at home and some of the players (Andre, Seth) didn't play up to expectations on some ocassions. Clearly the team had problems guarding quick penetrators and also were mismatched when the other team could bring size at guard and small forward. Losing Ryan at the end just magnified the problems of matching up.

We start next season with two PG players, three shooting guard players/prospects (Andre, Rasheed and Seth) and two small forward prospects. Of course we are all awaiting to hear if Mason will stay. If he does we have four front court players/prospects. We are covered, even without further recruits. Perhaps a wild card in this scenario is if Seth can show better PG instincts, but that is somewhat unlikely. Based on end of year performance, I would expect Andre to move down in the order and Michael (silent G) or Alex to move up.

So what are the expected likeups for next season?

PG- Tyler (start); Quinn (backup); Seth (2nd backup)

SG- Seth (Start); Rasheed (backup); Andre (2nd backup)

SF- Michael (start); Alex (backup); Andre (2nd Backup)

PF- Ryan (start); Mason (backup); Josh (2nd backup)

C- Mason (start); Marshall (backup)

Losing Mason and or getting Tony Parker or Shebazz (sp) would shake things up. We should know more after April 11th

Players change so much over the summer that it is hard to even pencil in a line-up. I am sure the staff will give each current player a goal and series of skills they need to work on in the interim.

It is good to see that there should be strong competition at each position, which at the end of the day makes everyone stronger.

[scottdude8]

I understand Airowe... I know you're generally trustworthy and you saying that makes me feel better about the situation. I only asked because I don't think that even the most trusted "7-pitchfork" individuals should necessarily be able to make statements that would be construed as "rumor mongering" from the rest of us, at least not without some sort of explanation as to their believability. I'd love to hear more, but I understand if you don't want to reveal your source—I just wish we were all held to the same standard. I'm sure there are others who have similar information (well sourced, but who don't necessarily want to reveal the source) who feel pressured to not tell the community because they don't have the correct "reputation."

[roywhite]

I understand Airowe... I know you're generally trustworthy and you saying that makes me feel better about the situation. I only asked because I don't think that even the most trusted "7-pitchfork" individuals should necessarily be able to make statements that would be construed as "rumor mongering" from the rest of us, at least not without some sort of explanation as to their believability. I'd love to hear more, but I understand if you don't want to reveal your source—I just wish we were all held to the same standard. I'm sure there are others who have similar information (well sourced, but who don't necessarily want to reveal the source) who feel pressured to not tell the community because they don't have the correct "reputation."

Sorry, I don't see an equivalence between stating "Player A is transferring" and "Player A is returning". The default here is that the player is assumed to stay with the normal progression to his next season unless we've seen specific indications that the decision is up in the air (which it is for Mason Plumlee, for example).

You're asking for detail about Silent G staying, while you seem reluctant to give any details about why you think he may leave.

If I stated that I definitely expect Ryan Kelly and Tyler Thornton to return to Duke next season, would I need a source for that to avoid rumor-mongering in your view?

[sagegrouse]

Sorry, I don't see an equivalence between stating "Player A is transferring" and "Player A is returning". The default here is that the player is assumed to stay with the normal progression to his next season unless we've seen specific indications that the decision is up in the air (which it is for Mason Plumlee, for example).

You're asking for detail about Silent G staying, while you seem reluctant to give any details about why you think he may leave.

If I stated that I definitely expect Ryan Kelly and Tyler Thornton to return to Duke next season, would I need a source for that to avoid rumor-mongering in your view?

Scott Dude is one of our Chron guys -- sounds like good reporting to me. -- sage

[scottdude8]

That's a valid point about the difference between saying someone will return vs. transfer. But I never definitively said he was going to transfer, just that there was heavy chatter that it was a strong possibility. And the reason I didn't give any details is exactly what I was trying to address above (and apparently didn't do too eloquently): if I were to explain the sources behind my statement, it might be construed as rumor mongering, whereas if airowe did it it would likely be OK. Let's be clear—in all likelihood airowe's source is better than mine, but I think it's a problem that he can make a statement without evidence and it's OK, but the average poster can't.

I didn't mean to create a storm about this—I love this board and come to it a lot of my Duke basketball news. I just wanted to express a feeling I've been having that often prevents me from posting when I otherwise would like to, just because I have to avoid the rumor mongering policy when that is explicitly not what I'm doing. We should probably go back to talking about Silent G, a player I think will play a huge role for Duke next year.

[BD80]

Scott Dude is one of our Chron guys -- sounds like good reporting to me. -- sage

What grade would you give him for his reporting?

[scottdude8]

What grade would you give him for his reporting?

Yes, our finest moment as an institution, haha. Also one that occurred almost 20 years ago... just saying.

[Bluealum]

That's a valid point about the difference between saying someone will return vs. transfer. But I never definitively said he was going to transfer, just that there was heavy chatter that it was a strong possibility. And the reason I didn't give any details is exactly what I was trying to address above (and apparently didn't do too eloquently): if I were to explain the sources behind my statement, it might be construed as rumor mongering, whereas if airowe did it it would likely be OK. Let's be clear—in all likelihood airowe's source is better than mine, but I think it's a problem that he can make a statement without evidence and it's OK, but the average poster can't.

I didn't mean to create a storm about this—I love this board and come to it a lot of my Duke basketball news. I just wanted to express a feeling I've been having that often prevents me from posting when I otherwise would like to, just because I have to avoid the rumor mongering policy when that is explicitly not what I'm doing. We should probably go back to talking about Silent G, a player I think will play a huge role for Duke next year.

I see the point, and it's fairly stated. However, in an effort to make all things equal, when all parties do not have equal information, would deprive this board of the type of information that folks like Airowe provide. I would DEFINITELY not want to lose that information just to create some lowest common denominator style, level playing field. This is the bain of all large companies. They make complex policies with the good intent of trying to make things fair. The result is that everyone get's less information and the insiders become all the more 'inside' and the outsiders get even less information as those in the know who can provide insight, don't, for fear of violating some policy.

This forum has been a bit like Cheers. People drop by and lots of people know lots of people by their handle. It's been happening for years and is a comfortable 'local feeling' place for this reason. Why lose all that by instituting a policy that encourages Airowe to say less, so that someone with an email account in cyberspace doesn't feel the license to say whatever they want.

Just a counter-point...

[CDu]

So what are the expected likeups for next season?

PG- Tyler (start); Quinn (backup); Seth (2nd backup)
SG- Seth (Start); Rasheed (backup); Andre (2nd backup)
SF- Michael (start); Alex (backup); Andre (2nd Backup)
PF- Ryan (start); Mason (backup); Josh (2nd backup)
C- Mason (start); Marshall (backup)

Losing Mason and or getting Tony Parker or Shebazz (sp) would shake things up. We should know more after April 11th

I think it's way too early to be able to do this with any sort of accuracy. We are in the mix for 3 high school recruits and two transfers (each of whom has some degree of uncertainty with regard to eligibility next year) and we don't yet know (and may not know until April 29) whether Mason will be back.

That being said, I'm not sure I'm ready to relegate Dawkins to the end of the rotation. It'd be great if Gbinije, Murphy, and Sulaimon are all ready to bump Dawkins out of the rotation. That'd be pretty impressive for 3 wings to bump a guy who has averaged 8+ ppg for two straight years despite playing less than 25mpg.

[-jk]

I understand Airowe... I know you're generally trustworthy and you saying that makes me feel better about the situation. I only asked because I don't think that even the most trusted "7-pitchfork" individuals should necessarily be able to make statements that would be construed as "rumor mongering" from the rest of us, at least not without some sort of explanation as to their believability. I'd love to hear more, but I understand if you don't want to reveal your source—I just wish we were all held to the same standard. I'm sure there are others who have similar information (well sourced, but who don't necessarily want to reveal the source) who feel pressured to not tell the community because they don't have the correct "reputation."

Regardless of pitchforks, airowe has earned a certain measure of leeway from the mods.

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

You raise an interesting point, Scott. There are some posters who have established "cred" on these who are given leeway. I don't think it has anything to do with pitchforks -- I'd get (rightly) slammed for posting that "X is transferring" or somesuch because I don't have a track record of inside information nor do the mods know me from Adam's housecat. If you do have access to inside info, you may want to contact a mod privately and let him/her know who you are or why you have access to that info. They have a tough job to walk the line between allowing the disbursement of pertinent information, and stopping the slew of folks (not you) who come to these boards during the silly season to state that there is discontent behind the scenes without posting any supporting information. Again, not you. But I am sure you see the dilemma they have.

I do have it on good authority, though, that Adam's housecat is a bad bad kitty and is weighing her options.

[airowe]

I do have it on good authority, though, that Adam's housecat is a bad bad kitty and is weighing her options.

I'm more of a dog guy.

2510

[dukedoc]

You raise an interesting point, Scott. There are some posters who have established "cred" on these who are given leeway. I don't think it has anything to do with pitchforks -- I'd get (rightly) slammed for posting that "X is transferring" or somesuch because I don't have a track record of inside information nor do the mods know me from Adam's housecat. If you do have access to inside info, you may want to contact a mod privately and let him/her know who you are or why you have access to that info. They have a tough job to walk the line between allowing the disbursement of pertinent information, and stopping the slew of folks (not you) who come to these boards during the silly season to state that there is discontent behind the scenes without posting any supporting information. Again, not you. But I am sure you see the dilemma they have.

I will say, the rigor with which this board is moderated (relative to other similar boards) is pretty remarkable, and the result is a much nicer boarding experience. There is so much junk on other boards, it's hard to know what's what. I appreciate being able to come here for the skinny on x/y/z and for some pretty impressive statistical gymnastics. I think I have a sense of who has inside sources and who doesn't, but perhaps we could give the confirmed insiders some variation of the "twitter check mark" or something that is easily visible? Or perhaps a golden pitchfork?

[ncexnyc]

If I stated that I definitely expect Ryan Kelly and Tyler Thornton to return to Duke next season, would I need a source for that to avoid rumor-mongering in your view?
In fairness to Scott, I'm not sure talking about two players who have numerous starts under their belt is the same as discussing a kid who got very little burn, yet offered the team the physical tools it so sorely lacked at the SF position.
We are also talking about a kid who the team is currently trying to recruit over.

[airowe]

In fairness to Scott, I'm not sure talking about two players who have numerous starts under their belt is the same as discussing a kid who got very little burn, yet offered the team the physical tools it so sorely lacked at the SF position.
We are also talking about a kid who the team is currently trying to recruit over.

Duke has been recruiting Shabazz Muhammad since before Michael Gbinije committed. I'm sure he knew the situation when he did so.

[NSDukeFan]

In fairness to Scott, I'm not sure talking about two players who have numerous starts under their belt is the same as discussing a kid who got very little burn, yet offered the team the physical tools it so sorely lacked at the SF position.
We are also talking about a kid who the team is currently trying to recruit over.

You make a valid point, but is there anyone at Duke who could say that they haven't at least kind of been "recruited over?"

Seth and Andre - Austin?, Mike G?,
Tyler - Kyrie?, Quinn
Ryan, Mason,- Mitch M? Tony P? Alex M? Quincy M? James MacAdoo? Deandre D? Alex Oriahki?
Josh- the above plus Julius Randle?
Marshall - the above plus Jahlil Okafor?
Alex, Mike G - Trey Z?, Jabari P?, Matt Jones?
Quinn- Tyus Jones? Anthony Barber?

[dragoneye776]

We should probably go back to talking about Silent G, a player I think will play a huge role for Duke next year.

I actually spoke to Michael Gbinije yesterday (he watched the OSU Kansas game in my dorm) and he was talking about how he's picked up 7 pounds of muscle in the gym since the end of the season. I'm not sure how much of an improvement that is but it seems to me like he is serious about working his way into the rotation next year.

(I've lurked on this forum long enough.)

[OldPhiKap]

I actually spoke to Michael Gbinije yesterday (he watched the OSU Kansas game in my dorm) and he was talking about how he's picked up 7 pounds of muscle in the gym since the end of the season. I'm not sure how much of an improvement that is but it seems to me like he is serious about working his way into the rotation next year.

(I've lurked on this forum long enough.)

Glad you spoke up! OPK

[dukedoc]

I actually spoke to Michael Gbinije yesterday (he watched the OSU Kansas game in my dorm) and he was talking about how he's picked up 7 pounds of muscle in the gym since the end of the season. I'm not sure how much of an improvement that is but it seems to me like he is serious about working his way into the rotation next year.

(I've lurked on this forum long enough.)

Great to hear. Thanks for sharing this info!

[ncexnyc]

Duke has been recruiting Shabazz Muhammad since before Michael Gbinije committed. I'm sure he knew the situation when he did so.
Back then was Bazz the slam dunk one and done he is now?


You make a valid point, but is there anyone at Duke who could say that they haven't at least kind of been "recruited over?"

Seth and Andre - Austin?, Mike G?,
Tyler - Kyrie?, Quinn
Ryan, Mason,- Mitch M? Tony P? Alex M? Quincy M? James MacAdoo? Deandre D? Alex Oriahki?
Josh- the above plus Julius Randle?
Marshall - the above plus Jahlil Okafor?
Alex, Mike G - Trey Z?, Jabari P?, Matt Jones?
Quinn- Tyus Jones? Anthony Barber?

I would certainly hope that we would recruit with the goal of establishing some form of continuity in mind and I'm sure every player understands that situation. In this instance I'm mentioning a player who is being possibly jumped by someone who appears to be a sure fire one and done.

To me that's something totally different. I would hope that every kid who comes to Duke understands they have to earn there playing time and that often entails paying ones dues. However, in this case you've got a kid who paid his dues last year and should we land Bazz, then he'd be riding the pine for another year.

Just throwing this out there and I have no clue how Mike feels about the possibility of us landing Bazz and the effect it would have on his playing time.

[SoCalDukeFan]

To clear a few things up:

1) I gave him the Silent G nickname due to the pronunciation of his last name and his quiet effectiveness on the court.

2) He's not transferring.

3) Michael was sick to the point of needing IVs at times during the season. He missed practice time and clearly wasn't able to get fully up to speed as a freshman trying to adjust to being an elite level college basketball player.

Sick to the point of needing IVs, freshmen, and academic All-ACC. I am impressed.

Hopefully next year will bring good health and more playing time.

SoCal

[OldPhiKap]

Someone upthread mentioned GHenderson as a person who was freakishly athletic but had health issues his freshman year. I seem to remember GHill having some similar issue although the memory gets fuzzier as I go on.

Go {g} Go!

[TruBlu]

Someone upthread mentioned GHenderson as a person who was freakishly athletic but had health issues his freshman year. I seem to remember GHill having some similar issue although the memory gets fuzzier as I go on.

Go {g} Go!

I prefer Stay {g} Stay

[OldPhiKap]

I prefer Stay {g} Stay

;>_)

[devildeac]

I actually spoke to Michael Gbinije yesterday (he watched the OSU Kansas game in my dorm) and he was talking about how he's picked up 7 pounds of muscle in the gym since the end of the season. I'm not sure how much of an improvement that is but it seems to me like he is serious about working his way into the rotation next year.

(I've lurked on this forum long enough.)

Sounds like he has been lifting a lot of cinder blocks to bulk up like that;).

[Kfanarmy]

I'm more of a dog guy.

2510 That's a cat posing. right? I mean, a dog has some size.

[Wildcat]

82 posts for a kid who sat the bench for most of the year? Why are we still talking about a player who obviously was not a key player for this years team?

[dcar1985]

82 posts for a kid who sat the bench for most of the year? Why are we still talking about a player who obviously was not a key player for this years team?

Probably b/c this year is over...and me as well as others recognize that he could be a big part of future success within the program....No ones forcing you to read or participate though

[OldPhiKap]

82 posts for a kid who sat the bench for most of the year? Why are we still talking about a player who obviously was not a key player for this years team?

Because all of the Marty Pocius threads are closed?

[dukedoc]

82 posts for a kid who sat the bench for most of the year? Why are we still talking about a player who obviously was not a key player for this years team?

You just contributed to this thread yourself.

For my part, I like posting in this thread because it's free. I like free things.

[Newton_14]

82 posts for a kid who sat the bench for most of the year? Why are we still talking about a player who obviously was not a key player for this years team?

First of all that "kid" is a talented young man who has the potential to be a really good player and contributor for Duke's basketball team. Seeing as this is a Duke Basketball board, Gbinije is a Duke Basketball player, and most of here are Duke Basketball fans, it kind of makes sense to have a discussion on the kid. You are more than welcome though, to avoid clicking on this thread and just focus on the star players.

Back to the rational discussion, learning that Gbinije was sick part of the year explains at least part of the reasoning for lack of PT. That's why it is always dangerous to speculate why a player may not be getting PT, as K rarely discloses that type of info unless it is a known injury. There have been many times in the past where K revealed at the end of a season that a player was dealing with an unpublicized injury or illness.

Good to hear Mike is healthy again, and has added the 9 lbs of bulk. He has the physical attributes and athletic ability to blossom into a good player. I have to agree with Dcar, in that "raw" is not how I would describe Mike. He has basketball skills, is coordinated, a good shooter, etc. To me, he is one of those players that just did not pick up the offense or defensive scheme's that Duke runs quickly enough, and he just needs the game to slow down for him. He was never comfortable enough with what he was doing to unleash and use those athletic gifts.

One play from all the way back in the first exhibition game comes to mind as an example. I posted on that play in the post game thread that night. Mike was chasing down a break away layup attempt, and I actually stood up from my seat as it was evident he would get there in time. I was expecting a spectacular block attempt with Mike using those great hops. Instead, once he got there he went up kind of hesitantly, as though he was not sure if it was ok to risk the foul with a block attempt. End result was the more experienced offensive player took it right to Mike's chest and drew the foul. Were he comfortable with the game there, it was a play where he could have easily blocked the shot. It looked exactly like a freshman trying hard to "not make a mistake", which of course often leads to a "freshman mistake". The day is coming where Mike will send that shot attempt into the 5th row of the crowd.

Not all kids are ready in year one. There isn't anything wrong with that. Give "the kid" a little time to develop.

[Greg_Newton]

Michael was sick to the point of needing IVs at times during the season. He missed practice time and clearly wasn't able to get fully up to speed as a freshman trying to adjust to being an elite level college basketball player.

Whoa. I missed this when it was posted, but I had no idea. Thanks. That sounds pretty serious and explains a lot, actually.

I don't want to pry into his personal issues, but is it something he has a handle on now? Sure hope it doesn't continue to hamper him throughout his career, or life, for that matter. Hope he's alright.

[airowe]

I don't want to pry into his personal issues, but is it something he has a handle on now? Sure hope it doesn't continue to hamper him throughout his career, or life, for that matter. Hope he's alright.

Sounds like he's good according to the poster up above who just talked to him. He was just sick.

Remember when he stayed home from the Maryland trip? After playing 6 minutes against Wake Forest on January 19th, he didn't play in six straight games until logging 1 minute against Maryland at home on February 11th and 1 minute against NC State on the 16th. He logged more than a minute only once in a game for the rest of the year after that. That illness clearly affected his ability to get up to speed in practice enough to make the coaches feel confident enough about him to put him in the game.

[AZLA]

82 posts for a kid who sat the bench for most of the year? Why are we still talking about a player who obviously was not a key player for this years team?

Probably because this team so "underperformed" in the nicest possible terms and people are wondering how Duke next year can improve considering it will be losing it's "star" player.

[airowe]

Probably because this team so "underperformed" in the nicest possible terms and people are wondering how Duke next year can improve considering it will be losing it's "star" player.

This team underperformed? In one game they definitely did, but for the whole season? Seriously?

[loldevilz]

This team underperformed? In one game they definitely did, but for the whole season? Seriously?

That "One Game" was in the NCAA tournament. I just don't understand how many people act like the NCAA tournament is just another game. Its not. The NCAA tournament IS the college basketball season whether people like it or not. Its what determines the legacy of your team.

[Des Esseintes]

That "One Game" was in the NCAA tournament. I just don't understand how many people act like the NCAA tournament is just another game. Its not. The NCAA tournament IS the college basketball season whether people like it or not. Its what determines the legacy of your team.

I haven't heard a single person claim it is "just another game." That would be absurd. Almost as absurd as claiming it obliterates everything else that happened during the year. And I don't think you believe that either. Games against Carolina don't matter? ACC tournaments don't matter? Contests against major programs out of conference don't matter? The development of individual members of the team throughout the season doesn't matter? Epic performances and epic comebacks don't matter? Like I said, I think you care about those things, too. You just decided to spout off without thinking and said the first piece of hyperbole that popped into your skull. Don't do that. It's bad for the board, yourself, America, language....

[Devilsfan]

Underperformed??? I contend this team OVERPERFORMED. Twenty seven wins on what seemed to be at times a group of individuals vs. a team is quite remarkable IMO. Hats off to Coach K for this unbelievable achievement.

[SupaDave]

That "One Game" was in the NCAA tournament. I just don't understand how many people act like the NCAA tournament is just another game. Its not. The NCAA tournament IS the college basketball season whether people like it or not. Its what determines the legacy of your team.

And for some reason they don't reward GETTING to the tourney. If only they had some things like...

Regular season championships
Conference tourney championships
Invitational championships
Games on battleships
Prime time TV
Conference challenges
Trips overseas to places like London and China
Rivalry games
Rivalry week
Midnight Maddness
or Being ranked for the first time in a season.

Yeah, I'm just gonna stop watching til March. Will make my life a whole lot easier. Thanks for your help with this.

[Wildcat]

First of all that "kid" is a talented young man who has the potential to be a really good player and contributor for Duke's basketball team. Seeing as this is a Duke Basketball board, Gbinije is a Duke Basketball player, and most of here are Duke Basketball fans, it kind of makes sense to have a discussion on the kid. You are more than welcome though, to avoid clicking on this thread and just focus on the star players.

Back to the rational discussion, learning that Gbinije was sick part of the year explains at least part of the reasoning for lack of PT. That's why it is always dangerous to speculate why a player may not be getting PT, as K rarely discloses that type of info unless it is a known injury. There have been many times in the past where K revealed at the end of a season that a player was dealing with an unpublicized injury or illness.

Good to hear Mike is healthy again, and has added the 9 lbs of bulk. He has the physical attributes and athletic ability to blossom into a good player. I have to agree with Dcar, in that "raw" is not how I would describe Mike. He has basketball skills, is coordinated, a good shooter, etc. To me, he is one of those players that just did not pick up the offense or defensive scheme's that Duke runs quickly enough, and he just needs the game to slow down for him. He was never comfortable enough with what he was doing to unleash and use those athletic gifts.

One play from all the way back in the first exhibition game comes to mind as an example. I posted on that play in the post game thread that night. Mike was chasing down a break away layup attempt, and I actually stood up from my seat as it was evident he would get there in time. I was expecting a spectacular block attempt with Mike using those great hops. Instead, once he got there he went up kind of hesitantly, as though he was not sure if it was ok to risk the foul with a block attempt. End result was the more experienced offensive player took it right to Mike's chest and drew the foul. Were he comfortable with the game there, it was a play where he could have easily blocked the shot. It looked exactly like a freshman trying hard to "not make a mistake", which of course often leads to a "freshman mistake". The day is coming where Mike will send that shot attempt into the 5th row of the crowd.

Not all kids are ready in year one. There isn't anything wrong with that. Give "the kid" a little time to develop.






Come on, you have evaluated a freshmen's potential or ability to contribute based upon "one play," before the season even started? In the words of Mike Tyson, that's ludicruos. Personally, i don't buy the "mike was injured at times" argument. I don't doubt that injuries could have plagued him at times this season; but to spend all of my money on that prescription,...... come on.

[AZLA]

This team underperformed? In one game they definitely did, but for the whole season? Seriously?

So they met your expectations? Sheeesh.

Yes. They underperformed.

[ncexnyc]

I haven't heard a single person claim it is "just another game." That would be absurd. Almost as absurd as claiming it obliterates everything else that happened during the year. And I don't think you believe that either. Games against Carolina don't matter? ACC tournaments don't matter? Contests against major programs out of conference don't matter? The development of individual members of the team throughout the season doesn't matter? Epic performances and epic comebacks don't matter? Like I said, I think you care about those things, too. You just decided to spout off without thinking and said the first piece of hyperbole that popped into your skull. Don't do that. It's bad for the board, yourself, America, language....

We had a saying in the Army, "One ah sheet wipes out a wall of at-a-boys." Unfortunately to many people the Lehigh game was that one ah sheet.

Is it fair? Probably not, but that's how many people are going to remember us for last year.

[OldPhiKap]

So if {g} had not have gotten sick and fallen off his schedule, we'd have gone further. Funny, I thought Ryan's injury was perhaps a tad more of a direct factor.

Unless {g} can rain threes, which is the other problem we had.

But anyway . . . let's keep rehashing a disappointing finish on every thread imaginable.

[jafarr1]

So they met your expectations? Sheeesh.

Yes. They underperformed.

For the regular season, we over-performed. We had one of the toughest schedules in the country and won 26 games. We beat a bunch of NCAA tournament teams (including some very high seeds), won the Maui invitational, beat UNC at their place in a thriller and had a ridiculous comeback versus NC State. We played for the ACC regular season title in the last game of the regular season. The only bad showings were two bad losses (at Temple, Miami in OT) and a pair of big-margin losses (at Ohio State, UNC), although the latter amounts to style points more than anything else.

In the ACC tournament, we did OK. We didn't look great against Va Tech, but we won. FSU had a strong team this season. A close semifinal loss to them was not a great result, but was hardly embarrassing either.

We did enough to earn a 2-seed. I'm not sure what your expectations were, but earning a 2-seed seems like a pretty strong result to that point in the season. To argue that we underperformed is to say you expected a 1-seed, which seems ambitious after losing Smith, Singler and Irving. To argue that we should have garnered a higher 2-seed is nitpicking.

So about the only way one can argue that we underperformed is if the NCAA tournament is everything. We underperformed badly in the tournament, no doubt, but saying we underperformed for the whole season because of one bad loss seems myopic to me.

[NSDukeFan]

So they met your expectations? Sheeesh.

Yes. They underperformed.

A 27-7 record against a very tough schedule with a Maui championship, a split with Carolina (I was hoping, but not necessarily expecting), a 13-3 record to place second in the conference, an 8-0 road conference record (what?) would have exceeded my expectations had the team performed better in the NCAAs. Overall, I would say the team at least met my expectations, though I was obviously very disappointed in how the season ended. I started watching the team in the summer and again at the end of October. Though the last game I saw the team play was a very poor one, I still remember the other 33.

[cspan37421]

Trying to at least touch on the thread topic here, I hope that Silent G is big part of a new rotation that somehow clicks better than last year's did toward the end. Call it chemistry or whatever, our defense finished #70 in efficiency in the country. That's not clicking at the level we're used to at Duke. And our offense, while finishing at #11, did not finish so strong either.

And that gets to the recent posts in this thread. I don't think losing 7 games is the reason that people feel disappointed. After all, that's a typical total for a championship team (not this year, but on average up until this year, that's about it). I think the reason some feel disappointed is that the team seemed to peak early, then showed some signs of weakness (Temple), finally finishing with 3 losses in our last 4, one of which was a blowout home loss to our #1 rival, and another a shocking first-round upset to a little heralded team.

So I think it was the trajectory of the season that at the heart of the matter for many of us, as well as the particularly shocking losses characterizing the tail end.