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View Full Version : 2012 McDonald's All-American Game Thread



CDu
03-28-2012, 10:15 PM
I haven't seen a thread for this, so I thought I'd start one.

moonpie23
03-28-2012, 10:21 PM
bazz looking big time.........

our boy sheed looking silky.....and smart

freedevil
03-28-2012, 10:27 PM
bazz looking big time.........

our boy sheed looking silky.....and smart

Agreed on both fronts. Bazz is legit. Really legit.

bleedingblue
03-28-2012, 10:36 PM
Information so far doesnt sound good on any of the three recruits. I hope we can pull at least one and add a transfer. Still think Mason comes back. Let's cross our fingers.....

CDu
03-28-2012, 10:42 PM
Initial thoughts on the first half (focused on Duke targets and ACC guys):

Sulaimon: He reminds me a lot of Nolan Smith, though he's a bit taller. He's REALLY quick, showed good explosiveness, good ballhandling, and unselfishness (rare in these games). And oh boy does he have range. He hit a 3 from the NBA line and then hit one from even further out. It's hard to say in an exhibition, but he seems faster and more explosive than Cook or Rivers, and though he probably doesn't have their dribble skills he looked pretty comfortable attacking off the dribble. He's noticeably more involved than either Cook or Gbinije was in last year's game.

Muhammad: He was clearly the most dominant player in the first half. He threw down some monster dunks, hit a three, and just seemed at ease out there. Clearly a physical specimen and it is easy to see why he's the #1 or #2 recruit in the country. Strong, athletic, tenacious. There's no doubt he'll be an impact player right away.

Parker: He's big and doughy. Definitely not in elite shape. But you can see the touch around the basket. He had a nice reverse layup on a fast break that was surprisingly smooth. He got several offensive rebounds. He's slow and not a leaper, but he can eat up space. It's hard to tell how he'll translate to college, but he's got a Reggie Johnson type of game (below the rim but crafty and big).

Jefferson: He's super skinny. Definitely won't be a physical PF. I do wonder how effective he'll be right away at the PF in college. He had no post up plays. At first I thought he was the SF when he and Poythress were in together, as Poythress is noticeably bigger and Jefferson was staying on the perimeter. Had a mechanical jumpshot that went in from 19 feet and showed a slick move to the basket in which he unfortunately lost the ball going up. I didn't come away overly impressed with anything he did like I did with Sulaimon, Parker, and (especially) Muhammad. I'd guess he'd be a backup next year, but again it's not always easy to tell from these games.

Purvis (NC State): He's going to start right away and he's going to be pretty darn good. The comparisons to Dwyane Wade are apparent. Not that he's that good, but he's got that kind of game. He could pair very nicely with Lorenzo Brown giving NC State a very tall, very athletic, very good ballhandling pair of guards.

Lewis (NC State): He's little (I hate to say that because he's probably my height), but he's got game. Confident on the dribble and has a good eye for the pass. Because of his height and slight frame, I'd expect him to back up Brown next year in what may very well be the best backcourt in the ACC.

Warren (NC State): He's a solidly built 3 with good athleticism. Definitely seemed like an off-ball player, which could work well with Brown/Purvis/Lewis to set him up. He'll be a nice change of pace from Scott Wood with his strength and athleticism. Seems more in the Nate James mold (though obviously not as badass).

Note: I really really like what State's perimeter looks like. They could start 6'4", 6'5", 6'5" with 5'11" and 6'6" off the bench. If Leslie stays, that's an incredibly talented and well-matched team.

Paige: Meh. Didn't do much noteworthy. Got a couple of bunny assists on fast breaks. Seemed quick but not a standout tonight so far. Though Marshall didn't stand out either, so take these games for what they're worth.

jipops
03-28-2012, 10:43 PM
Liking what I see from Rasheed so far. He's hit a couple 3's. He takes it to the basket in traffic. Looks very comparable to Nolan Smith from what I can tell. I don't think this kid will have a problem finding a productive role at Duke.

Bob Green
03-28-2012, 10:51 PM
Sulaimon is 3-4 on 3-pointers by my count, but I admit I've walked away from the TV briefly a couple of times. I agree his jumper is smooth and he has demonstrated both speed and ball handling ability in this game. He should develop into a real talent at Duke.

CDu
03-28-2012, 10:53 PM
Early in the second half, Sulaimon showed even more evidence that he'll be ready to contribute. He is very quick. I'm glad jipops also sees Nolan Smith in his game, because that was my immediate image. He's smooth, super quick, explosive, and can really shoot. I'm really excited about him. He's been the second or third most impressive player so far (Muhammad and maybe Anderson have been more impressive).

Jefferson just showed a nice up and under move to shake a defender and get a layup. He's more Lance Thomas than CJ Leslie in terms of athleticism. But he's got good ballhandling skills and decent range for a PF.

Paige has made a couple of nice passes. I don't see Marshall in him, but he's done a bit more in this half worthy of note.

Newton_14
03-28-2012, 10:59 PM
Sulaimon is 3-4 on 3-pointers by my count, but I admit I've walked away from the TV briefly a couple of times. I agree his jumper is smooth and he has demonstrated both speed and ball handling ability in this game. He should develop into a real talent at Duke.

Yep, looks good! I also agree with CDu on his evaluations. Shabazz is just sick. Man, if he somehow chooses Duke, the ante will be upped big time. I know it is a longshot, but Dave Telep can be wrong once in a slim while. That would be incredible. He is just a man among boys out there and brings great focus and drive to boot.

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:02 PM
Parker is making his presence felt a bit more in the second half. He's a pretty good offensive rebounder. Good hands and good touch around the basket. The only knock I have is that he's chubby and struggles to get up and down the court. The Reggie Johnson comp seems more and more apt. Hopefully he has Johnson's motor though.

Bob Green
03-28-2012, 11:06 PM
Paige: Meh. Didn't do much noteworthy. Got a couple of bunny assists on fast breaks. Seemed quick but not a standout tonight so far. Though Marshall didn't stand out either, so take these games for what they're worth.

Overall, your analysis is spot on, but are you sure you're being objective on Paige? I thought he looked good early pushing the ball up the court with the dribble. I agree he isn't like Marshall but would counter he is in the mold of a Felton or Lawson.

The game has degenerated into the typical back and forth, no defense being played affair in the 2nd half. There was actually some defense played during the first 20 minutes.

Kedsy
03-28-2012, 11:09 PM
Parker is making his presence felt a bit more in the second half. He's a pretty good offensive rebounder. Good hands and good touch around the basket. The only knock I have is that he's chubby and struggles to get up and down the court. The Reggie Johnson comp seems more and more apt. Hopefully he has Johnson's motor though.

I wouldn't mind having a Reggie Johnson on our roster.

How is Rasheed Sulaimon's D (assuming you can tell in a game like this)?

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:12 PM
Overall, your analysis is spot on, but are you sure you're being objective on Paige? I thought he looked good early pushing the ball up the court with the dribble. I agree he isn't like Marshall but would counter he is in the mold of a Felton or Lawson.

The game has degenerated into the typical back and forth, no defense being played affair in the 2nd half. There was actually some defense played during the first 20 minutes.

I was saying more from the perspective that he didn't stand out. He'll certainly fit into UNC's up-tempo style. I'd say he's somewhere between Marshall and Lawson/Felton. He doesn't have the explosiveness of Lawson or Felton but is definitely faster than Marshall. When looking at a PG, I guess I was looking for more explosiveness.

In terms of the PG in this game, I think Ferrell has been the most impressive. The other guys have had some moments. Paige is more ready than Lewis. I just don't see Marshall, Lawson, or Felton from him (yet).

Bob Green
03-28-2012, 11:14 PM
How is Rasheed Sulaimon's D (assuming you can tell in a game like this)?

Well he actually played some D so that's a good sign. I know he had a steal in the 1st half. The best observation I have is he has demonstrated quickness.

Bob Green
03-28-2012, 11:18 PM
Sulaimon just had another steal and delivered a pass for an easy bucket so he earned an assist.

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't mind having a Reggie Johnson on our roster.

How is Rasheed Sulaimon's D (assuming you can tell in a game like this)?

Not noteworthy one way or the other. He was willing to get into a nice defensive stance, but he wasn't locking anyone down either. Just not a good environment to judge on-ball defense.

And yes, I'd be thrilled with a Reggie Johnson on our roster. I wasn't too thrilled about him before tonight. He's growing on me. I'm sold on Sulaimon and Muhammad. Jefferson hasn't wowed me. Seems like a guy who'd sit most of the time next year and contribute more as a sophomore/junior/senior.

Nice to see Sulaimon and Muhammad play together. A backcourt of Sulaimon, Curry, Muhammad would look REALLY nice.

Did I mention I'm excited about Sulaimon? Because I am. He looks really good.

dukedoc
03-28-2012, 11:19 PM
Well he actually played some D so that's a good sign. I know he had a steal in the 1st half. The best observation I have is he has demonstrated quickness.

Very impressed with Rasheed. Very quick, excellent stroke from outside, and can get to the rim impressively. He'll get some major burn next year. He's got a lot of Nolan in him, but (at the same stage) perhaps even more impressive. I get very excited when a talent like him comes in who also has an amiable personality, humility, and a good work ethic. Excited about this guy.

Bob Green
03-28-2012, 11:24 PM
Sulaimon just scored a traditional 3-point play on a backdoor cut. He looks very good. Amile Jefferson appears to be a versatile player so if he picks Duke he could be a player capable of playing multiple positions once he matures.

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:24 PM
Very impressed with Rasheed. Very quick, excellent stroke from outside, and can get to the rim impressively. He'll get some major burn next year. He's got a lot of Nolan in him, but (at the same stage) perhaps even more impressive. I get very excited when a talent like him comes in who also has an amiable personality, humility, and a good work ethic. Excited about this guy.

This is an important thing to note. Sulaimon definitely seems further along than Smith did at his McDonald's game. He's noticeably more athletic than any of the guards on this year's team, and he has a feathery shot and strong ballhandling skills.

gumbomoop
03-28-2012, 11:26 PM
Sulaimon plays every play. Alert O and D, all-around skills, smart smarts, good handle, passer, shooter.

I like Jefferson a lot, maybe because I think we have a slightly better shot at getting him than Muhammad or Parker. Jefferson isn't as unusual as is Kyle Anderson, whom Duke was interested in at one point [and I'd like to know why that faded....]; but Jefferson is also very active, pretty good handle, alert like Sulaimon. Hope he picks Duke.

westwall
03-28-2012, 11:27 PM
Sulaimon just had another steal and delivered a pass for an easy bucket so he earned an assist.

I was more impressed by that pass than by Suliamon's shooting (which I was lead to expect).

Ichabod Drain
03-28-2012, 11:27 PM
Even though the outcome of this game doesn't matter i think it says something that the coach had Sheed in the game toward the end when it got close and that he made plays down the stretch to help his team win. I like this kid a lot, very excited about him, should be interesting how he fits in the rotation of all our guards next year.


Oh yea and GOOO BEEAARRRSSS... Mercer 2012 CIT champs!!!!!

dukelifer
03-28-2012, 11:27 PM
Not noteworthy one way or the other. He was willing to get into a nice defensive stance, but he wasn't locking anyone down either. Just not a good environment to judge on-ball defense.

And yes, I'd be thrilled with a Reggie Johnson on our roster. I wasn't too thrilled about him before tonight. He's growing on me. I'm sold on Sulaimon and Muhammad. Jefferson hasn't wowed me. Seems like a guy who'd sit most of the time next year and contribute more as a sophomore/junior/senior.

Nice to see Sulaimon and Muhammad play together. A backcourt of Sulaimon, Curry, Muhammad would look REALLY nice.

Did I mention I'm excited about Sulaimon? Because I am. He looks really good.

Sulaimon looks like a Duke player- Muhammad not so sure. He is a pro - ready to play in the NBA now.

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Sulaimon plays every play. Alert O and D, all-around skills, smart smarts, good handle, passer, shooter.

I like Jefferson a lot, maybe because I think we have a slightly better shot at getting him than Muhammad or Parker. Jefferson isn't as unusual as is Kyle Anderson, whom Duke was interested in at one point [and I'd like to know why that faded....]; but Jefferson is also very active, pretty good handle, alert like Sulaimon. Hope he picks Duke.

In terms of guys who could start or make an immediate impact for us, I'd say Muhammad and Sulaimon fit that description. Parker could potentially start, but his stamina is probably going to be an issue. He's got the size, hands, and touch to be an immediate presence. Jefferson has some nice skills, but he's so skinny and not terribly explosive. Seems like a 10-15mpg guy next year. With a bit more strength, he is a very interesting player.

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:33 PM
Sulaimon looks like a Duke player- Muhammad not so sure. He is a pro - ready to play in the NBA now.

Muhammad looks like what I want a Duke player to look like. Sulaimon does too. I'm very happy we have Sulaimon. I'd be even happier if we get Muhammad (which I'm not expecting).

gumbomoop
03-28-2012, 11:42 PM
Jefferson has some nice skills, but he's so skinny and not terribly explosive. Seems like a 10-15mpg guy next year. With a bit more strength, he is a very interesting player.

My impression of Jefferson is at least marginally more positive than yours. I agree he's not explosive, certainly not at all powerful. He does manage to get to the rim, though.

If Mason leaves and Jefferson is our only additional recruit, that Jefferson might get 10-12 mpg at the 4 would allow Murphy to play some 3, as opposed to almost exclusively at the 4.

To be honest, even though I really like Jefferson, I certainly wouldn't think he'd get 15 mpg his first year. But even 7-10 would help.

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:46 PM
My impression of Jefferson is at least marginally more positive than yours. I agree he's not explosive, certainly not at all powerful. He does manage to get to the rim, though.

If Mason leaves and Jefferson is our only additional recruit, that Jefferson might get 10-12 mpg at the 4 would allow Murphy to play some 3, as opposed to almost exclusively at the 4.

To be honest, even though I really like Jefferson, I certainly wouldn't think he'd get 15 mpg his first year. But even 7-10 would help.

I think we are in agreement really. He has a very nice skillset, but he is probably a year away.

It is hard to describe his game. Slithery? Crafty? I will go with slithery.

DukeWarhead
03-28-2012, 11:47 PM
I was most impressed with Jay Williams. Can we have him back? Seriously, though.. Jay is turning into a very good analyst - he doesn't reach for commentary and sounds natural.

Rasheed has the "it". Motor, playmaking ability, killer instinct, whatever. He has it.

Makes me think that a Cook, Sulaimon, and Curry backcourt could be very quick and offensively potent. (as opposed to potently offensive.)

CDu
03-28-2012, 11:52 PM
I was most impressed with Jay Williams. Can we have him back? Seriously, though.. Jay is turning into a very good analyst - he doesn't reach for commentary and sounds natural.

Rasheed has the "it". Motor, playmaking ability, killer instinct, whatever. He has it.

Makes me think that a Cook, Sulaimon, and Curry backcourt could be very quick and offensively potent. (as opposed to potently offensive.)

I am thinking more toward Sulaimon, Curry, Dawkins/Gbinije/Murphy.

CameronCrazy06
03-28-2012, 11:53 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only one who's super-excited about Sheed. Not just from this game, but from everything I've seen and heard about the kid, I've been nothing but impressed. I think he's going to make an impact from the day he steps onto campus, and I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't in our starting lineup at some point next season.

Chris Randolph
03-29-2012, 12:12 AM
Didn't get a chance to watch the game. Dave Telep tweeted that Sulaimon's stock went up all week long. So sounds like the kid is turning more heads which means good things for him and Duke

OZ
03-29-2012, 01:36 AM
Information so far doesnt sound good on any of the three recruits.


Not clear what you meant by this or from where your information came.

Greg_Newton
03-29-2012, 03:15 AM
I am thinking more toward Sulaimon, Curry, Dawkins/Gbinije/Murphy.

Yeah, I don't know how it'll shake out, but I'll be extremely disappointed if we stick Sulaimon at SF like we did Rivers this year. Both guys are perfect combo guards with all the tools to have advantages over their opponents at either guard spot, but you negate that by making them guard/rebound against SFs.

Loved Sulaimon's speed and on-ball defense tonight (the play where he got low and stopped a full speed Purvis in his track is probably not something any of our current guards could have done), and how fast he gets down the court on fast breaks. I wonder what his +/- was, it had to be something insane. Also liked how well he and Shabazz were playing together...

Felt kinda bad for Amile. He was posting up all game with great position, and the guards just looked right past him. He looked frustrated with Tyler Lewis once when he tossed up a 3 instead of giving him the wide-open post entry pass, which I loved. :p He's far from a finished product, but he'll be a great back-to-basket scorer at the next level. Size and power isn't the only way to score around the rim.

And Poythress... man. He absolutely locked down Bazz on defense when he set his mind to it. He's like a less-offensively-cerebral, more physically gifted MKG (which is saying something) to me. Incredible all-around athlete. Gonna hate watching him at UK.

dukedoc
03-29-2012, 07:30 AM
Information so far doesnt sound good on any of the three recruits.

Are you referring to Telep's courtside blurbs during the game? I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that he didn't list us on Tony's list and put us in third place for Shabazz. The latter may be true, and that's fine, but we are definitely in the thick of it on Tony. Telep never looks comfortable on TV and my guess is he had a mind lapse or two. We are definitely around the top of the list for Tony, in the mix with 2 others for Shabazz, and also right near the top with Amile. My guess is we get Amile, half of Tony, and a transfer.

Bob Green
03-29-2012, 07:56 AM
I was more impressed by that pass than by Suliamon's shooting (which I was lead to expect).

Sulaimon scored 18 points and was 4-8 on 3-pointers so his shooting was pretty good:

http://blogs2.citizen-times.com/hshuddle/


The East trailed by as many as 24 with 12:03 left, but it mounted an impressive comeback. Amile Jefferson had a dunk to make it 93-88 with 3:42 left, but Sulaimon answered with a 3. Rodney Purvis’ three-point play got the East within four with 1:19 left, but Sulaimon answered with a three-point play of his own.

CDu
03-29-2012, 08:06 AM
Yeah, I don't know how it'll shake out, but I'll be extremely disappointed if we stick Sulaimon at SF like we did Rivers this year. Both guys are perfect combo guards with all the tools to have advantages over their opponents at either guard spot, but you negate that by making them guard/rebound against SFs.

Yeah, Sulaimon looks a lot like Nolan Smith, which leads me to wonder about the 6'4" height. He certainly looked shorter than that and didn't "play big" if that makes sense. He played like an explosive small guard. Playing him at SF with Cook at PG creates a lot of the same issues as last year in terms of height and rebounding.

That's why I'm intrigued by the idea of a Curry/Sulaimon guard tandem. They're both decent size for guards, and while neither is a true PG both have enough skills to handle it and set up others. Sulaimon has the quickness to defend the PG spot for sure. And it frees up the SF spot for whomever of Dawkins/Gbinije/Murphy or anyone new that wants time there and can defend SF.

I'm not saying that's what I expect to happen. It's just that the skills Sulaimon put on display last night introduced that as a possibility that I hadn't really considered before.


Loved Sulaimon's speed and on-ball defense tonight (the play where he got low and stopped a full speed Purvis in his track is probably not something any of our current guards could have done), and how fast he gets down the court on fast breaks. I wonder what his +/- was, it had to be something insane. Also liked how well he and Shabazz were playing together...

Yeah, it was nice that later in the game Muhammad got paired up with Sulaimon. For much of the game, the rotations (which were generally 5 for 5) paired Sulaimon with Goodwin. Goodwin never looked to pass. But Sulaimon and Muhammad really played well together down the stretch. Dare to dream. I don't think it'll happen, but dare to dream.

miramar
03-29-2012, 08:08 AM
Are you referring to Telep's courtside blurbs during the game? I wouldn't put too much stock into the fact that he didn't list us on Tony's list and put us in third place for Shabazz. The latter may be true, and that's fine, but we are definitely in the thick of it on Tony. Telep never looks comfortable on TV and my guess is he had a mind lapse or two. We are definitely around the top of the list for Tony, in the mix with 2 others for Shabazz, and also right near the top with Amile. My guess is we get Amile, half of Tony, and a transfer.

so where does Telep expect the three of them to go? Or does everyone simply pick Kentucky nowadays"

dukedoc
03-29-2012, 08:15 AM
so where does Telep expect the three of them to go? Or does everyone simply pick Kentucky nowadays"

He said that, among the three in the hunt for Shabazz, Duke was probably #3. He didn't pick a favorite between KY and UCLA.

For Tony, he rattled off like 8 schools that are involved, although in recent days Tony has indicated that Duke, Kansas, and UCLA "stand out". Incidentally, Telep didn't include Duke in his long list, which makes he think he had a bit of a lapse.

I didn't see the part when he commented on Amile.

dukelifer
03-29-2012, 09:20 AM
Yeah, Sulaimon looks a lot like Nolan Smith, which leads me to wonder about the 6'4" height. He certainly looked shorter than that and didn't "play big" if that makes sense. He played like an explosive small guard. Playing him at SF with Cook at PG creates a lot of the same issues as last year in terms of height and rebounding.

That's why I'm intrigued by the idea of a Curry/Sulaimon guard tandem. They're both decent size for guards, and while neither is a true PG both have enough skills to handle it and set up others. Sulaimon has the quickness to defend the PG spot for sure. And it frees up the SF spot for whomever of Dawkins/Gbinije/Murphy or anyone new that wants time there and can defend SF.

I'm not saying that's what I expect to happen. It's just that the skills Sulaimon put on display last night introduced that as a possibility that I hadn't really considered before.



Yeah, it was nice that later in the game Muhammad got paired up with Sulaimon. For much of the game, the rotations (which were generally 5 for 5) paired Sulaimon with Goodwin. Goodwin never looked to pass. But Sulaimon and Muhammad really played well together down the stretch. Dare to dream. I don't think it'll happen, but dare to dream.

I agree. Sulaimon is not 6' 4". I would guess 6' 1.5" - like Nolan. Again it is w shoes and w/o shoes. He is longer than Curry and Thornton but certainly not tall. He is a very smooth player. Muhammad may only be 6' 4" or 6' 5". At the end of the game, Sulaimon wanted the ball and showed the ability to hit a shot with significant contact. He also looked for Muhammad and vice versa. I think they both respect the other's game.

CDu
03-29-2012, 09:58 AM
I agree. Sulaimon is not 6' 4". I would guess 6' 1.5" - like Nolan. Again it is w shoes and w/o shoes. He is longer than Curry and Thornton but certainly not tall. He is a very smooth player. Muhammad may only be 6' 4" or 6' 5". At the end of the game, Sulaimon wanted the ball and showed the ability to hit a shot with significant contact. He also looked for Muhammad and vice versa. I think they both respect the other's game.

To those who didn't see the game, if they show a replay of the game, I recommend watching it. In all of these games you can just tell the impact players from the guys who are maybe a few years away or less versatile. Last year, Rivers was an impact player. Cook was a fringe player (perhaps due to injuries). Gbinije was very quiet and didn't make a lot happen. Sulaimon made an unmistakeable impression in that game. He showed great shooting range, great quickness and speed, the ability to get to the rim, and a general willingness to play on both ends. His ballhandling was better than I had expected, and though he's not a PG he could be a lead guard.

But he's not big. He's not going to play SF, so a backcourt of Cook/Thornton, Curry, and Sulaimon would play even smaller than the Thornton, Curry, and Rivers backcourt. I just don't see that happening.

There were a handful of players that stood out to me:
Muhammad (beast at SF)
Sulaimon (see my gushing throughout the thread)
Ferrell (lightning bug of a PG - small but clearly the quickest player on the court)
Purvis (will start from Day 1 for NC State and has a lot of Lorenzo Brown in him)
Parker (definite space eater and rebounder, good soft hands and touch around the basket, needs to get in shape)
Bennett (a big man with all sorts of skills)
Poythress (very long, strong, and athletic, could play SF or PF)
Anderson (slow mo is a good nickname for him and not in a bad way, terrific passer for his size)
Goodwin (he's a shoot 1st/2nd/3rd guy who passes only if necessary, but he sure can get to the rim)

Other guys:
Jefferson (probably a year away because of a slight frame, but a very interesting offensive skillset (outside in player with good ballhandling skills for a PF)
Lewis (will be a backup next year but is a definite upgrade over Alex Johnson and may eventually be a solid starter in a couple of years)
Paige (he'll have no problems running Williams' offense, but he didn't really stand out to me, not on the Felton/Lawson athlete level and doesn't have Marshall's court vision)

flyingdutchdevil
03-29-2012, 11:04 AM
Is Sulaimon being Nolan 2.0 an accurate description? If so, I am going to love Sulaimon from day 1.

What are the major differences between the two? Also, how is Sulaimon's D? I know that McD AA game doesn't show any defense, but I'm curious if anyone has any inside info about this aspect of his game.

CDu
03-29-2012, 11:12 AM
Is Sulaimon being Nolan 2.0 an accurate description? If so, I am going to love Sulaimon from day 1.

What are the major differences between the two? Also, how is Sulaimon's D? I know that McD AA game doesn't show any defense, but I'm curious if anyone has any inside info about this aspect of his game.

If you can watch Sulaimon and not see Nolan Smith, then I question your ability to see (:D). I've never seen such similarities. I'm not saying he'll be as good as junior-year Smith. But he's got that type of game, with perhaps a better 3pt shot. He's oh-so quick, has good ballhandling skills excellent leaping ability and a silky smoothness to his game. And great great range.

Differences? Sulaimon is probably a better shooter. And he's probably less of a passer than Smith was as an upperclassman. Hard to tell if he has Smith's chops defensively. But the overall similarities are eerie to me.

You really can't tell much defensively from these games other than shotblockers and ballhawking skills because it is so up-tempo with so little half-court offense. It's obvious that Sulaimon is quick and cares about defense, but it's hard to really tell how good he'll be on that end. He made a couple of nice defensive plays, and I'd expect him to be strong defensively, but I can't say that for certain from this game.

flyingdutchdevil
03-29-2012, 11:18 AM
If you can watch Sulaimon and not see Nolan Smith, then I question your ability to see (:D). I've never seen such similarities. I'm not saying he'll be as good as junior-year Smith. But he's got that type of game, with perhaps a better 3pt shot. He's oh-so quick, has good ballhandling skills excellent leaping ability and a silky smoothness to his game. And great great range.

Differences? Sulaimon is probably a better shooter. And he's probably less of a passer than Smith was as an upperclassman. Hard to tell if he has Smith's chops defensively. But the overall similarities are eerie to me.

You really can't tell much defensively from these games other than shotblockers and ballhawking skills because it is so up-tempo with so little half-court offense. It's obvious that Sulaimon is quick and cares about defense, but it's hard to really tell how good he'll be on that end. He made a couple of nice defensive plays, and I'd expect him to be strong defensively, but I can't say that for certain from this game.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

sdwGT2
03-29-2012, 11:36 AM
Shabazz seemed like a very articulate, well spoken kid, who would likely place a great deal of emphasis on academics, as well as basketball. Maybe that will give us an edge in signing him, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, I also did not come away with a good feeling about Shabazz choosing Duke. Fingers crossed.

CDu
03-29-2012, 11:40 AM
Shabazz seemed like a very articulate, well spoken kid, who would likely place a great deal of emphasis on academics, as well as basketball. Maybe that will give us an edge in signing him, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, I also did not come away with a good feeling about Shabazz choosing Duke. Fingers crossed.

Muhammad is likely a one-and-done. So while academics may be important, I doubt they'll be a deciding factor. He's not likely to be around long enough for it to really matter where he spent his undergrad time.

Not saying he won't choose Duke. Just that even if he wants his degree it is likely going to require classes from some other institution (because he's going to be in the NBA).

Cameron
03-29-2012, 11:45 AM
Shabazz seemed like a very articulate, well spoken kid, who would likely place a great deal of emphasis on academics, as well as basketball. Maybe that will give us an edge in signing him, but as was mentioned earlier in this thread, I also did not come away with a good feeling about Shabazz choosing Duke. Fingers crossed.

Coming out of secondary school, Harrison Barnes was the reincarnation of Aristotle and he chose North Carolina over Duke. Duke just isn't what it once was. I'm afraid it is merely a factory for basketball now and that the more cerebral and high-brow types are searching for more distinguished realms of higher education.

sdwGT2
03-29-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm so annoyed with the one and done deal. Either let these kids go pro out of high school, or make them stay three years. Sorry, I'm beating a dead horse.

Lar77
03-29-2012, 11:54 AM
Coming out of secondary school, Harrison Barnes was the reincarnation of Aristotle and he chose North Carolina over Duke. Duke just isn't what it once was. I'm afraid it is merely a factory for basketball now and that the more cerebral and high-brow types are searching for more distinguished realms of higher education.

Harrison Barnes was many things coming out of high school. Maybe if he made the right choice, he would have learned about team defense and passing.;)

Yes, Duke has slipped and isn't even a basketball factory. Consider, Harvard has more NBA stars than Duke right now.

But Barnes as Aristotle the Second - no way! Shaq is and always will be the Big Aristotle.

NashvilleDevil
03-29-2012, 11:58 AM
Harrison Barnes was many things coming out of high school. Maybe if he made the right choice, he would have learned about team defense and passing.;)

Yes, Duke has slipped and isn't even a basketball factory. Consider, Harvard has more NBA stars than Duke right now.

But Barnes as Aristotle the Second - no way! Shaq is and always will be the Big Aristotle.

You mean Lin's 8 games are better than Kyrie's entire season of great games?

jipops
03-29-2012, 11:59 AM
Muhammad is likely a one-and-done. So while academics may be important, I doubt they'll be a deciding factor. He's not likely to be around long enough for it to really matter where he spent his undergrad time.

Not saying he won't choose Duke. Just that even if he wants his degree it is likely going to require classes from some other institution (because he's going to be in the NBA).

In that vein, I like how the announcers joked around regarding Rasheed's academic prowess and the fact that he's a national honor society member. So to them it seemed fitting that he chose a place like Duke. They actually joked that Duke must have been his "safety" school.

Ichabod Drain
03-29-2012, 12:02 PM
Harrison Barnes was many things coming out of high school. Maybe if he made the right choice, he would have learned about team defense and passing.;)

Yes, Duke has slipped and isn't even a basketball factory. Consider, Harvard has more NBA stars than Duke right now.

But Barnes as Aristotle the Second - no way! Shaq is and always will be the Big Aristotle.

So Lin > Kyrie (likely rookie of the year) and Deng (NBA Allstar)?

sdwGT2
03-29-2012, 12:13 PM
Deng is a star around here, I can assure you. People love him. Boozer, not as much.

Gee, if Duke's academic rep has slipped that much, maybe the admissions board could see their way to letting a wider variety of football recruits into Duke?;)

UrinalCake
03-29-2012, 12:20 PM
I'm so annoyed with the one and done deal. Either let these kids go pro out of high school, or make them stay three years. Sorry, I'm beating a dead horse.

You're not just beating a dead horse. You've run over it, backed over it, then run over it again :)

flyingdutchdevil
03-29-2012, 12:25 PM
Deng is a star around here, I can assure you. People love him. Boozer, not as much.

Gee, if Duke's academic rep has slipped that much, maybe the admissions board could see their way to letting a wider variety of football recruits into Duke?;)

Ahhhh....Deng. In the NBA, he's like Battier but with much better D. My favorite player to watch, because he is better than average in nearly everything (his passing has come out of nowhere. He is a beautiful point forward when D-Rose isn't on the floor) and amazing in a few areas (on-the-ball D, help D, denying players the ball, rebounding for a SF).

The good news is that Deng will never get traded as long as Thibodeau is coach. IMO, Thibodeau really likes Rose, but he loves Deng. Kinda like Phil Jackson with Kobe and Fisher.

Bluedog
03-29-2012, 12:37 PM
Yeah, Sulaimon looks a lot like Nolan Smith, which leads me to wonder about the 6'4" height. He certainly looked shorter than that and didn't "play big" if that makes sense.


I agree. Sulaimon is not 6' 4". I would guess 6' 1.5" - like Nolan. Again it is w shoes and w/o shoes. He is longer than Curry and Thornton but certainly not tall. He is a very smooth player. Muhammad may only be 6' 4" or 6' 5".

Last June, Sulaimon measured 6' 4.5" with shoes at the Deron Williams Skills Academy. (He could have grown since then, though.) Nolan measured 6' 3.5" with shoes (6' 1.5" w/o) at the pre NBA draft workout. I can't find Muhammad's official measurements anywhere.

http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/MaxWire-National-Blog/JfObkqEREeCkhgAcxJSkrA/nike-skills-academies-rosters.htm

Lar77
03-29-2012, 12:44 PM
Deng is a star around here, I can assure you. People love him. Boozer, not as much.

Gee, if Duke's academic rep has slipped that much, maybe the admissions board could see their way to letting a wider variety of football recruits into Duke?;)

Duke as a football and basketball powerhouse! Let's see if we can get Butch Davis. In fact, why worry at all about our school's rep? Winning is the only thing.


PS For the others who seemed offended by my Lin reference earlier, seriously?

CDu
03-29-2012, 12:56 PM
Last June, Sulaimon measured 6' 4.5" with shoes at the Deron Williams Skills Academy. (He could have grown since then, though.) Nolan measured 6' 3.5" with shoes (6' 1.5" w/o) at the pre NBA draft workout. I can't find Muhammad's official measurements anywhere.

http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/MaxWire-National-Blog/JfObkqEREeCkhgAcxJSkrA/nike-skills-academies-rosters.htm

He may be an inch taller than Smith. I'd buy that. I'm just saying that he played a small man's game.

dukelifer
03-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Last June, Sulaimon measured 6' 4.5" with shoes at the Deron Williams Skills Academy. (He could have grown since then, though.) Nolan measured 6' 3.5" with shoes (6' 1.5" w/o) at the pre NBA draft workout. I can't find Muhammad's official measurements anywhere.

http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/MaxWire-National-Blog/JfObkqEREeCkhgAcxJSkrA/nike-skills-academies-rosters.htm

Well I would guess an inch error is possible in all this- that said- he is not likely 6' 4" tall without shoes. But this kid can really play and shoot. Beautiful shot with range (much better than Nolan's at the same stage) and he is capable of driving. You can see the places he needs to develop- but these are tweaks. He will be a major player in the Duke system by his sophomore year.

theAlaskanBear
03-29-2012, 02:35 PM
You're not just beating a dead horse. You've run over it, backed over it, then run over it again :)

Or maybe he is a glue factory? ;P

I am in complete agreement with though, I hope the system DOES change, I'm just not holding my breath, or I'll be as dead as those horses.

freedevil
03-29-2012, 03:05 PM
He will be a major player in the Duke system by his sophomore year.

Agreed. Would love and hope for it to be during his first season, but expect his role to increase as a sophomore.

Troublemaker
03-29-2012, 03:58 PM
Sulaimon will start or be a 6th man that gets loads of minutes. And yes, he's a very impressive young person. There's a one-hour Elite 24 documentary that's been getting play on the ESPN networks in which Sulaimon was shown to be humble, hard-working, talented, respected, and smart. He was basically an assistant coach on his high school team, put in charge of teaching his teammtes sets and helping the coaching staff gameplan. Amile Jefferson was also in the documentary and very impressive himself. So was Nate Britt (UNC).

CDu
03-29-2012, 04:04 PM
Sulaimon will start or be a 6th man that gets loads of minutes. And yes, he's a very impressive young person. There's a one-hour Elite 24 documentary that's been getting play on the ESPN networks in which Sulaimon was shown to be humble, hard-working, talented, respected, and smart. He was basically an assistant coach on his high school team, put in charge of teaching his teammtes sets and helping the coaching staff gameplan. Amile Jefferson was also in the documentary and very impressive himself. So was Nate Britt (UNC).

Yeah, I'd expect him to play a significant role next year. If not starting, I expect at least substantial minutes from him. He seems further along than Nolan Smith was as a freshman, and Smith averaged 15 mpg on a team that had Paulus, Scheyer, Nelson, and Henderson ahead of him. Sophomore-year Smith seems like a reasonable guesstimate to me.

Saratoga2
03-29-2012, 04:20 PM
Last June, Sulaimon measured 6' 4.5" with shoes at the Deron Williams Skills Academy. (He could have grown since then, though.) Nolan measured 6' 3.5" with shoes (6' 1.5" w/o) at the pre NBA draft workout. I can't find Muhammad's official measurements anywhere.bout 6'3"

http://www.maxpreps.com/blogs/MaxWire-National-Blog/JfObkqEREeCkhgAcxJSkrA/nike-skills-academies-rosters.htm

I can believe Rasheed is about 6'3" in stocking feet. He also looked long, quick and smooth. I seriously underestimated this kids ability and see him as getting substantial PT next season. He paired up well with Muhammed as others have noted. Raheed looks like an excellent candidate for shooting guard. Perhaps he will share the positon with Seth next year while Tyler and Quinn with share the PG duties.

If Muhammed comes to Duke, I see him as playing small forward and sharing time with whoever else shines. Only the recruiting process and the summer development can tell us that.

The talk of Tony Parker at the McDonalds game was to some degree about his physical conditioning. The kind of run and gun strategy, or lack there of, doesn't favor a big man. There was a great reluctance to pass it into any of the big guys, so I didn't think it was a fair look at his abilities. He is big and smooth. NOt going to win races up and down the court nor is he likely to outjump others, but he has the quality to use his size effectively. I would like to see him choose Duke as he fills our need for a capable big bodied guy.

dukedoc
03-29-2012, 05:01 PM
The talk of Tony Parker at the McDonalds game was to some degree about his physical conditioning. The kind of run and gun strategy, or lack there of, doesn't favor a big man. There was a great reluctance to pass it into any of the big guys, so I didn't think it was a fair look at his abilities. He is big and smooth. NOt going to win races up and down the court nor is he likely to outjump others, but he has the quality to use his size effectively. I would like to see him choose Duke as he fills our need for a capable big bodied guy.

I agree - I actually see a lot of potential in Tony. He has elements that are hard to teach - he is big, smooth, and has good hands. His deficiencies can be remedied by a rigorous college-level program, like at Duke. I hope our staff gets the opportunity to mold him, because he could be very very good when it's all said and done.

Ichabod Drain
03-29-2012, 06:20 PM
Anybody know where a box score is for the game, couldn't find one myself, it may not be out there.

arnie
03-29-2012, 06:31 PM
Anybody know where a box score is for the game, couldn't find one myself, it may not be out there.

That would be great to see. I was also very impressed with our new guard - seems to be what we need!

Of course the N&O raved only about NCState prospects and even stated that Purvis outscored all the area prospects in the game (I'm sure that's not right, just don't have the box).

Duvall
03-29-2012, 06:32 PM
Anybody know where a box score is for the game, couldn't find one myself, it may not be out there.

Box score. (http://mcdonaldsallamerican.com/2012BoysGameResults.pdf)

juise
03-29-2012, 06:33 PM
Anybody know where a box score is for the game, couldn't find one myself, it may not be out there.

Here's the box score (http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/2012BoysGameResults.pdf).


ETA: Duvalllllll!

arnie
03-29-2012, 06:39 PM
Here's the box score (http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/2012BoysGameResults.pdf).


ETA: Duvalllllll!

Thanks! Just as I though, Rasheed did outscore Purvis. Of course, they both took Marcus Paige to the cleaners.

Bob Green
03-29-2012, 07:40 PM
Of course, they both took Marcus Paige to the cleaners.

I disagreed with analysis of Marcus Paige earlier in the thread and I'll reiterate my disagreement here. Paige may have only scored four points, but he dished out seven assists against one turnover. He also had a steal and a blocked shot. With Kendall Marshall off to the NBA, I expect Paige will step in and excel running (pun intended) Coach Williams' system. Perhaps his performance and the subsequent comments in this thread are via a Duke blue filter. Of course, I hope I'm wrong because I'd love to see Coach Williams have to coach next year without having the luxury of a good point guard on his roster.

mr. synellinden
03-29-2012, 08:53 PM
Here's the box score (http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/2012BoysGameResults.pdf).


ETA: Duvalllllll!

Intreresting to note that outside of Rasheed, 3-pt shooting was 5-31.

So he was 50%; everyone else was 16%.

CDu
03-29-2012, 10:53 PM
Intreresting to note that outside of Rasheed, 3-pt shooting was 5-31.

So he was 50%; everyone else was 16%.

It was a lot of awful basketball with some nice moments mixed in there. Only about a handful of guys stood out. Sulaimon was definitely one of them.

MarkD83
03-29-2012, 11:08 PM
There is always alot of talk about one and done players this time of year. There is at least one good aspect of the one and done rule. The players we saw in the McD game will be playing in college next year.

dukedoc
03-29-2012, 11:38 PM
Sheed even has some Nolan personality in him going toe to toe with the other triangle recruits VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_UZtb0EUc&feature=share)

Greg_Newton
03-30-2012, 01:18 AM
Next year's team might be the best DBP team ever, with The Big Three of Rasheed, Quinn and Marshall.

Ichabod Drain
03-30-2012, 08:04 AM
There is always alot of talk about one and done players this time of year. There is at least one good aspect of the one and done rule. The players we saw in the McD game will be playing in college next year.

Unless they go the Brandon Jennings route.

Furniture
03-30-2012, 06:02 PM
I am really impressed with this kid. Duke has a great recruit!

SupaDave
03-30-2012, 06:27 PM
Sheed even has some Nolan personality in him going toe to toe with the other triangle recruits VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_UZtb0EUc&feature=share)

He states Mason is coming back in this video. Seems quite sure about it as well.

Violent gerbils seem to be everywhere right now.

Greg_Newton
03-30-2012, 08:00 PM
He states Mason is coming back in this video. Seems quite sure about it as well.

Violent gerbils seem to be everywhere right now.

Lots of tensions flowing to the surface in the gerbil world right now. We could be looking at all-out anarchy soon...

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTchBWpddvFnC_W_pcKE2Vplf8_4QXhS 6tCzy9WyrWVdwF8E4xx0Ahttps://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9pwzUd9KzU_ge4luqbhHVE1jFBWkDc wCsT-ZGx7w8DjDkcBBSTAhttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD_Lmi508f-RvzyE-MiThwwRFCWLUGE7zIVacA_6jO-er518k7CHberU6h

SupaDave
03-31-2012, 02:03 PM
Say cheese!

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0bg61g4E01qcl760o1_500.jpg

g-money
03-31-2012, 03:34 PM
Say cheese!

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0bg61g4E01qcl760o1_500.jpg

That is just cruel SupaDave.

Now if he had a Duke jersey on at the top of the Chapel I would start to get my hopes up a little bit.

UrinalCake
04-05-2012, 12:48 AM
I couldn't find a better thread to put this in so mods please move this if needed. Incoming Tar Heel Marcus Paige apparently has a stress fracture, suffered shortly before the McDonald's game. He was quoted elsewhere as saying he wasn't as explosive in the game due to the injury.

link (http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/29769/unc-recruit-paige-suffers-stress-fracture/)

I enjoy watching the Heels suffer as much as the next guy, but I do feel for them with all of the injuries they've had the last few years. Paige should be recovered in time for the fall, but you still have to wonder a.) whether there will be any lingering effects or relapses of the injury, and b.) how much of a setback it will be for him to miss some off-season and/or pre-season training. Kind of like Quinn Cook's situation last year.

camion
04-05-2012, 07:24 AM
I couldn't find a better thread to put this in so mods please move this if needed. Incoming Tar Heel Marcus Paige apparently has a stress fracture, suffered shortly before the McDonald's game. He was quoted elsewhere as saying he wasn't as explosive in the game due to the injury.

link (http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/29769/unc-recruit-paige-suffers-stress-fracture/)

I enjoy watching the Heels suffer as much as the next guy, but I do feel for them with all of the injuries they've had the last few years. Paige should be recovered in time for the fall, but you still have to wonder a.) whether there will be any lingering effects or relapses of the injury, and b.) how much of a setback it will be for him to miss some off-season and/or pre-season training. Kind of like Quinn Cook's situation last year.

This kid is ahead of schedule. He hasn't even arrived on campus yet and he's already got the injury excuse working.

CDu
04-05-2012, 09:27 AM
I couldn't find a better thread to put this in so mods please move this if needed. Incoming Tar Heel Marcus Paige apparently has a stress fracture, suffered shortly before the McDonald's game. He was quoted elsewhere as saying he wasn't as explosive in the game due to the injury.

link (http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/29769/unc-recruit-paige-suffers-stress-fracture/)

I enjoy watching the Heels suffer as much as the next guy, but I do feel for them with all of the injuries they've had the last few years. Paige should be recovered in time for the fall, but you still have to wonder a.) whether there will be any lingering effects or relapses of the injury, and b.) how much of a setback it will be for him to miss some off-season and/or pre-season training. Kind of like Quinn Cook's situation last year.

Perhaps that explains why he was so quiet in the game. He had a few nice transition passes early, but as the game went on he was pretty quiet. As with Kelly, I hope this injury doesn't cause him problems next year.

slower
04-10-2012, 10:39 AM
I was on the DraftExpress site, watching Rasheed and Marcus Paige interacting. Gotta say that Paige seems like a really nice kid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2BNiPo1kD4&feature=player_embedded