Alex Oriakhi to Missouri

[Greg_Newton]

Here is a very interesting development (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/03/connecticuts-alex-oriakhi-to-transfer/1#.T2pM3GJrOJs).

Oriakhi is a great student, who is basically unhappy with the culture at UConn and will be transferring. If UConn's post-season ban for next season is not lifted, he will be elligible to play immediately.

No mentions of Duke yet, and it would be one of the stranger roster developments I can ever remember at Duke. But if Mason leaves and he's eligible... talk about filling a need. Even if he's ineligible next season, it could be huge to have a proven, 5th-year center senior with a year in the system in 2013-2014 to allow Marshall a little time to develop as a RS soph, and perhaps encourage certain 6'8 2013 recruits they wouldn't be chained to the post.

I mean, this guy was the best big in the 2010 Final Four. He's a big-time player. This should be very interesting to follow.

[dukedoc]

Very interesting indeed. I initially dismissed it as irrelevant because I (wrongly) assumed that Alex wasn't a Duke-level student given that he was at UConn. I regret making that assumption and am glad to hear that we might actually be a potential fit for him (if he were interested). Was there any interest on either side during his initial recruitment?

[Bluedog]

Oriakhi's final four schools coming out of high school were UConn, BC, Florida, and Ohio State. I can't imagine a UConn player likes Duke very much, but who knows. Definitely an interesting development and I'm sure the staff is at least considering all options.

[uh_no]

Here is a very interesting development (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/03/connecticuts-alex-oriakhi-to-transfer/1#.T2pM3GJrOJs).

Oriakhi is a great student, who is basically unhappy with the culture at UConn and will be transferring. If UConn's post-season ban for next season is not lifted, he will be elligible to play immediately.

No mentions of Duke yet, and it would be one of the stranger roster developments I can ever remember at Duke. But if Mason leaves and he's eligible... talk about filling a need. Even if he's ineligible next season, it could be huge to have a proven, 5th-year center senior with a year in the system in 2013-2014 to allow Marshall a little time to develop as a RS soph, and perhaps encourage certain 6'8 2013 recruits they wouldn't be chained to the post.

I mean, this guy was the best big in the 2010 Final Four. He's a big-time player. This should be very interesting to follow.

He was at odds with calhoun all year...didn't like that he had to share time with Drummond.....that is 100% NOT the attitude you want at duke....you think he wants any bit of playing second fiddle to mason, ryan, and possibly marshall? doubtful.

He is a good rebounder, but his offensive game, is, well, offensive....He isn't the solution to duke's problems.

[Duvall]

He was at odds with calhoun all year...didn't like that he had to share time with Drummond.....that is 100% NOT the attitude you want at duke....you think he wants any bit of playing second fiddle to mason, ryan, and possibly marshall? doubtful.

He is a good rebounder, but his offensive game, is, well, offensive....He isn't the solution to duke's problems.

If he's a good rebounder, he can help Duke.

If Mason is still at Duke, there probably wouldn't be a scholarship for Oriakhi. If Mason is gone, Oriahki wouldn't have to worry about playing second fiddle any more.

[uh_no]

If he's a good rebounder, he can help Duke.

If Mason is still at Duke, there probably wouldn't be a scholarship for Oriakhi. If Mason is gone, Oriahki wouldn't have to worry about playing second fiddle any more.

he went for 7 and 5 on average this year.....i shoudl temper my statement, he was a good rebounder last year...but he's been at best mediocre this year...someone his size should be a double double machine....and again, do we really want someone who wanted playing time so much that he called his coach the nigerian word for "idiot?"

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2011/11/25/2585511/alex-oriakhi-twitter-criticize-calhoun

Coach K rarely brings in transfers anyway, so I highly doubt he would spend more than second thinking about bringing in someone with that attitude, who would be a senior (ie wouldn't even have time to be integrated into the system) for 7 points and 5 rebounds a game.

[ChillinDuke]

Does anyone have any sort of lead/link that would make this a reasonably possible scenario? Or is this just day-dreaming at this point?

- Chillin

[tommy]

he went for 7 and 5 on average this year.....i shoudl temper my statement, he was a good rebounder last year...but he's been at best mediocre this year...someone his size should be a double double machine....and again, do we really want someone who wanted playing time so much that he called his coach the nigerian word for "idiot?"

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2011/11/25/2585511/alex-oriakhi-twitter-criticize-calhoun

Coach K rarely brings in transfers anyway, so I highly doubt he would spend more than second thinking about bringing in someone with that attitude, who would be a senior (ie wouldn't even have time to be integrated into the system) for 7 points and 5 rebounds a game.

Who knows if either side would even be interested, but I'd venture to guess that if he were to get more than the 21 minutes per game that he got this year at UConn he might move those numbers up some. I think we could use a battle-tested, bona fide, power big who could give us maybe, what, 12 and 8? Not far from Mason numbers . . .

[THE FUTURE]

The story is at ESPN anyway he is a soph 6'9 235 forward plays like kelly...he shot 43 % from 3..anybody think duke will pursue him

[PDDuke85]

The story is at ESPN anyway he is a soph 6'9 235 forward plays like kelly...he shot 43 % from 3..anybody think duke will pursue him

His consonant to vowel ratio makes him a very attractive Duke candidate

[CameronBornAndBred]

Oriakhi's final four schools coming out of high school were UConn, BC, Florida, and Ohio State. I can't imagine a UConn player likes Duke very much, but who knows. Definitely an interesting development and I'm sure the staff is at least considering all options.
I think there is a huge difference in what the players like and we as fans like. Take notes from what both unc and Duke players say about the other's schools. We love to see them fail, they pull for each other to succeed. I imagine this goes between conferences just as well.

[weezie]

His consonant to vowel ratio makes him a very attractive Duke candidate

Indeed a righteous observation. Hahahahaha:cool:

[lotusland]

he went for 7 and 5 on average this year.....i shoudl temper my statement, he was a good rebounder last year...but he's been at best mediocre this year...someone his size should be a double double machine....and again, do we really want someone who wanted playing time so much that he called his coach the nigerian word for "idiot?"




http://www.theuconnblog.com/2011/11/25/2585511/alex-oriakhi-twitter-criticize-calhoun

Coach K rarely brings in transfers anyway, so I highly doubt he would spend more than second thinking about bringing in someone with that attitude, who would be a senior (ie wouldn't even have time to be integrated into the system) for 7 points and 5 rebounds a game.
What's the Nigerian word fort "shady"? Maybe he meant that instead

[uh_no]

What's the Nigerian word fort "shady"? Maybe he meant that instead

maybe he did...

but you don't call your coach an idiot in public, and you don't say his decisions are BS in public...even if he is, and they are so.

[Greg_Newton]

Interesting thread title change, moderator. Might as well merge the Tony Parker thread while you're at it, because there's a greater chance of Oriakhi coming to Duke than him, and he's nowhere near as good.

I would have thought given that "physical post rebounder" will likely be our biggest, glaring weakness next year if Mason follows his three year plan and leaves, and that the best post player from last year's final four is transferring, and that he's a 3.6 student, and that he'll actually be eligible next year as a senior, the news was worth sharing without ridicule.

As I said before, there are two sides to Oriakhi's story, and his discontent was caused by something deeper (and longer running) than a lack of PT. Given the board's opinion of Calhoun, I wouldn't think that would be an automatic deal-breaker.

[pfrduke]

Interesting thread title change, moderator. Might as well merge the Tony Parker thread while you're at it, because there's a greater chance of Oriakhi coming to Duke than him, and he's nowhere near as good.

I would have thought given that "physical post rebounder" will likely be our biggest, glaring weakness next year if Mason follows his three year plan and leaves, and that the best post player from last year's final four is transferring, and that he's a 3.6 student, and that he'll actually be eligible next year as a senior, the news was worth sharing without ridicule.

As I said before, there are two sides to Oriakhi's story, and his discontent was caused by something deeper (and longer running) than a lack of PT. Given the board's opinion of Calhoun, I wouldn't think that would be an automatic deal-breaker.

Title change was on me - wasn't directed at any one person, more the confluence of the Ziegler/Oriakhi/Smotrycz threads showing up within 24 hours.

[Greg_Newton]

Title change was on me - wasn't directed at any one person, more the confluence of the Ziegler/Oriakhi/Smotrycz threads showing up within 24 hours.

...Who, while we're on the subject, should all obviously come to Duke. :p

[-jk]

Title change was on me - wasn't directed at any one person, more the confluence of the Ziegler/Oriakhi/Smotrycz threads showing up within 24 hours.

And an entirely appropriate change - we try to keep thread titles somewhat on topic as discussions evolve (or take a drunkard's walk) in new directions.

-jk

[NYC Duke Fan]

Because of UCONN's ban from next year's tournament, Oriaki's father said that his was going to transfer and if the ban holds than he does not have to sit out a year.

He would be an excellent fit, 6-9, 240 pounds for the Duke team. He also had a 3.5 grade point average according to his father.

Any thoughts?

[CDu]

Because of UCONN's ban from next year's tournament, Oriaki's father said that his was going to transfer and if the ban holds than he does not have to sit out a year.

He would be an excellent fit, 6-9, 240 pounds for the Duke team. He also had a 3.5 grade point average according to his father.

Any thoughts?

Well, it's already been mentioned a bit. But I think if he'd be willing to buy into the system he'd be a great addition. He'd be a perfect match with Kelly, allowing Kelly to play on the perimeter while manning the middle and eating up rebounds, scoring in the post some, running the floor, and challenging shots. If he'd have any interest in Duke, I think we'd be lucky to add such a player given our potential need for a big man (assuming Mason goes into the draft).

[SMO]

maybe he did...

but you don't call your coach an idiot in public, and you don't say his decisions are BS in public...even if he is, and they are so.

But the real question is: did Oriaki say, "not a dime back!" on his way out of Connecticut?

[ChillinDuke]

Does anyone have any sort of lead/link that would make this a reasonably possible scenario? Or is this just day-dreaming at this point?

- Chillin

I'll answer my own question.

No.

- Chillin

[CDu]

I'll answer my own question.

No.

- Chillin

I don't think anyone implied that it was anything more than a hypothetical situation. I don't see a reason to assume Duke is any less likely to get Oriakhi than another school. It was simply a discussion of a kid from a major D-1 program who appears to have the academics and skill set to fit at Duke. Nobody said more than that.

[NSDukeFan]

But the real question is: did Oriaki say, "not a dime back!" on his way out of Connecticut?

That is hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xokthY5zuPU

[A-Tex Devil]

Just throwing this out there because I don't know the answer -- any adequate guys out there who have graduated, but have an extra year, that can take advantage of the Russell Wilson rule? My guess is that anyone that could really help is going to the next level, but one never knows.

[Lennies]

He would be an excellent fit, 6-9, 240 pounds for the Duke team. He also had a 3.5 grade point average according to his father.

3.5 at UConn doesn't tell us much. What was his high school GPA?

[cspan37421]

3.5 at UConn doesn't tell us much. What was his high school GPA?

You think high school GPA will be more enlightening?

What if he's a 3.5 GPA double major in actuarial science and economics? I'm just saying - GPA may not say much alone, but not all majors are easy when it comes to grades.

[UrinalCake]

3.5 at UConn doesn't tell us much. What was his high school GPA?

3.5 is the number of books he has read. Kidding! Kidding!

[UrinalCake]

So if Oriaki or Zeigler winds up coming and is immediately eligible, that will make the 2012/2013 class one of the most oddly assembled in Duke history. We'd have:

Andre Dawkins - originally part of the 2010 high school class, came a year early after Henderson and Williams left
Seth Curry - originally part of the 2008 high school class, transferred from Liberty and sat out a year
Oriaki/Zeigler - transfer from UCONN/Michigan under special circumstances
Mason, Ryan - normal schedule

[Kedsy]

So if Oriaki or Zeigler winds up coming and is immediately eligible, that will make the 2012/2013 class one of the most oddly assembled in Duke history. We'd have:

Andre Dawkins - originally part of the 2010 high school class, came a year early after Henderson and Williams left
Seth Curry - originally part of the 2008 high school class, transferred from Liberty and sat out a year
Oriaki/Zeigler - transfer from UCONN/Michigan under special circumstances
Mason, Ryan - normal schedule

Plus Alex Murphy, part of the 2012 class, then came to Duke a year early, then redshirted so he's back in his original class.

[freshmanjs]

Zeigler would not be in the 2013 class. (even if he could play next year, he'd have 2 years left).

It is true that Oriaki, Curry, Dawkins would be an unsually assembled group of seniors.

[Greg_Newton]

Interesting footnote to a Rivers story: http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=7727887&i=TWT&w=1bln9&wjb


Sources also said that Duke could be among a handful of schools that UConn forward Alex Oriakhi talks to, after he announced Thursday he's transferring from the Huskies for his senior season. Oriakhi can play immediately as long as the Huskies' 2013 NCAA tournament ban, stemming from its poor academic progress report, is upheld.

[scottdude8]

I'm not sure if this is all a serious possibility, but as a Michigan fan who follows the team almost as closely as he does Duke, Evan Smotrycz would be perfect for Duke. Ever since I saw him play I pegged him as Kyle Singler light—he's a great rebounder, a great shooter, and has decent handles, all in a 6-foot-8 body that just isn't big enough to pound in the post. He could play a Ryan Kelly 4 or, more likely, a Singler 3. I doubt we'll pursue him considering Murphy is coming in, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did.

[mpholt]

Wow... didn't search for a bette rplace to put this, and not saying they should transfer to Duke, but just shocked at the continual exit from Wake Forest... 1 last week, and 2 more this week...

http://www.wxii12.com/sports/30748976/detail.html

[Dev11]

Interesting footnote to a Rivers story: http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=7727887&i=TWT&w=1bln9&wjb

Given the way the last few days have gone, those 'sources' might be us, the DBR crazies.

[Greg_Newton]

Given the way the last few days have gone, those 'sources' might be us, the DBR crazies.

Don't think so, I've heard that sentiment confirmed elsewhere. Assuming he's granted his release, this could get interesting to follow, especially if it looks like Mason is leaning towards leaving.

[dukedoc]

FWIW, a run down from a CT news source regarding possible suitors for Alex Oriakhi. It's all still speculative, but for anyone who's interested. LINK (http://blog.ctnews.com/uconnbasketball/2012/03/24/possible-destinations-for-alex-oriakhi/)

[moonpie23]

so, correct me if i'm wrong....

if uconn stays on probation, he can play next season? but if they somehow win an appeal, he has to lay out for next year....

[uh_no]

so, correct me if i'm wrong....

if uconn stays on probation, he can play next season? but if they somehow win an appeal, he has to lay out for next year....

that seems correct

[dcdrumsinc]

He was at odds with calhoun all year...didn't like that he had to share time with Drummond.....that is 100% NOT the attitude you want at duke....you think he wants any bit of playing second fiddle to mason, ryan, and possibly marshall? doubtful.

He is a good rebounder, but his offensive game, is, well, offensive....He isn't the solution to duke's problems.

How cud you assume he will be second fiddle to marshall or ryan? this guy is a big bruiser and shot blocker. lacking this type of physical presence is the reason why teams beat us on the boards and guards finish at the rim at will against us. ill take oriaki in a heartbeat

[Mike Corey]

Watch the Oriakhi situation closely.

Watch the Ziegler situation closely.

Watch Mad Men tonight.

[CDu]

Watch the Oriakhi situation closely.

Watch the Ziegler situation closely.

Watch Mad Men tonight.

I like the sound of these thoughts. I will be quite a bit pleased if we could add those two guys along with Sulaimon, Murphy, and Marshall. Our team would have a much different look next year if that scenario played out.

[Newton_14]

Watch the Oriakhi situation closely.

Watch the Ziegler situation closely.

Watch Mad Men tonight.

Thanks for the tidbit Mike. Much appreciated.

I suspect next year's team will have quite a different look and feel from this year's team.

[Greg_Newton]

This is why I thought the sarcastic thread title change was unnecessary. These guys have just as much of a shot at ending up at Duke as certain recruits who have their own threads.

Anyway, Oriakhi will apparently know whether or not he has to sit out for a year or not within 7-10 days:
(http://soxanddawgs.com/huskies/articles/uconn-men-to-learn-2013-ncaa-fate-in-7-10-days.html)

Connecticut should learn whether it's eligible to play in the 2013 NCAA tournament within a week to 10 days, according to NCAA president Mark Emmert.

The deadline for the Huskies to submit their appeal to the NCAA's Committee on Academic Performance is Monday, according to Emmert.

But a UConn official told ESPN.com on Sunday the Huskies sent in the final appeal within the last two weeks, well ahead of the deadline.

As of right now, the Huskies are ineligible for the 2013 Tournament. They've had one appeal already denied and this would be their final appeal.

[Newton_14]

This is why I thought the sarcastic thread title change was unnecessary. These guys have just as much of a shot at ending up at Duke as certain recruits who have their own threads.

Anyway, Oriakhi will apparently know whether or not he has to sit out for a year or not within 7-10 days:
(http://soxanddawgs.com/huskies/articles/uconn-men-to-learn-2013-ncaa-fate-in-7-10-days.html)

No way the NCAA reverses that ruling. Not going to happen.

[pfrduke]

This is why I thought the sarcastic thread title change was unnecessary. These guys have just as much of a shot at ending up at Duke as certain recruits who have their own threads.

Hey, it's slowly becoming self-fulfilling ;)

Of course, if I had my way, the recruiting threads (particularly now, late in the season) would be similarly titled: [Insert Player's Name] is the last remaining top recruit, so obviously he should come to Duke. It's the tone that >50% of the posts on the recruiting threads seem to take.

[uh_no]

No way the NCAA reverses that ruling. Not going to happen.

we'll see. a 975 APR after instituting a new academic program is pretty compelling

but you're probably right.

[dukedoc]

A previous blurb from earlier in the day indicated Alex was not going to consider Duke, but now Goodman tweeted the below

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS
Duke will make a play for UConn transfer Alex Oriakhi, sources told CBSSports.

Confusing.

[mkline09]

Perhaps it is just me and I'm misunderstanding the situation but I'm not real high on Oriakhi after his very public jabs at Calhoun. Now I am in no way a Calhoun supporter or a fan of UConn but his public Twitter critcism of his coach just doesn't sit well with me.

[Big Pappa]

A previous blurb from earlier in the day indicated Alex was not going to consider Duke, but now Goodman tweeted the below

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS
Duke will make a play for UConn transfer Alex Oriakhi, sources told CBSSports.

Confusing.

Also this...

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS
Here's who has reached out to Alex Oriakhi: KY, UNC, Duke, NC St, Fla., Temple, Xavier, UCLA, Mizzou, George Mason, Va Tech, Va., Charlotte.

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS
Do not be shocked if Missouri is among the leaders for Oriakhi. I know how much he loved playing with Phil Pressey back in the day.

Obviously the second one is an opinion, but the first one sounds like Goodman is in contact with Oriakhi's people or Alex himself.

[dukedoc]

Perhaps it is just me and I'm misunderstanding the situation but I'm not real high on Oriakhi after his very public jabs at Calhoun. Now I am in no way a Calhoun supporter or a fan of UConn but his public Twitter critcism of his coach just doesn't sit well with me.

I was thinking about that as well. I presume that K and company will suss that out if Alex reciprocates and a genuine courtship ensues.

[tastytaste]

TSN saying he wont consider Duke

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-27/north-carolina-shows-interest-upon-alex-oriahkis-official-release-from-connectic?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[dukedoc]

TSN saying he wont consider Duke

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-27/north-carolina-shows-interest-upon-alex-oriahkis-official-release-from-connectic?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Others had tweeted that exact same thing earlier in the day and then Goodman tweeted something contradictory this evening. Not sure whom to believe. Probably the former.

[Greg_Newton]

BDN (watzone) tweeted that his understanding was that Oriakhi's interest depended on TP and Mason's decisions.

I'll just be thrilled if we end up with one of the three.

[superdave]

Watch the Oriakhi situation closely.

Watch the Ziegler situation closely.

Watch Mad Men tonight.


BDN (watzone) tweeted that his understanding was that Oriakhi's interest depended on TP and Mason's decisions.

I'll just be thrilled if we end up with one of the three.

At this point, would it be accurate to say there's three big men who could potentially fill one spot?

If Mason stays, would our chances with Parker diminish? If Mason stays, I assume Oriakhi would not be interested in backup minutes.

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi and Parker could co-exist conceivably, but probably would not want to be in a position to split minutes. So I'm assuming we will not have two of Mason/Parker/Oriakhi next year.

[gofurman]

please help me understand - is it right that due to Uconn APR Oriakhi IS eligible next year (2012-13_ but bc Zeigler is a simple transfer he is NOT eligible until a yr later like Seth Curry was (2013-14? are those both correct?

[Kedsy]

please help me understand - is it right that due to Uconn APR Oriakhi IS eligible next year (2012-13_ but bc Zeigler is a simple transfer he is NOT eligible until a yr later like Seth Curry was (2013-14? are those both correct?

Oriakhi is probably eligible next season. If UConn wins their appeal of the post-season ban then Oriakhi would not be eligible next season.

Zeigler is probably not eligible next season. If he manages to get a waiver because his father was fired then he could possibly be eligible next season.

I have no idea of the odds of either or both of the contingencies occurring.

[CDu]

At this point, would it be accurate to say there's three big men who could potentially fill one spot?

If Mason stays, would our chances with Parker diminish? If Mason stays, I assume Oriakhi would not be interested in backup minutes.

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi and Parker could co-exist conceivably, but probably would not want to be in a position to split minutes. So I'm assuming we will not have two of Mason/Parker/Oriakhi next year.

Based on the apparent intentions of Parker to be an immediate impact player and potential early entry guy and the obvious necessity for Oriakhi to land in a situation in which he can be an immediate starter with his one year of eligibility, I think that's a fairly safe working assumption.

[geraldsneighbor]

Oriakhi is probably eligible next season. If UConn wins their appeal of the post-season ban then Oriakhi would not be eligible next season.

Zeigler is probably not eligible next season. If he manages to get a waiver because his father was fired then he could possibly be eligible next season.

I have no idea of the odds of either or both of the contingencies occurring.

I think that there is a fairly decent chance Zeigler is eligible immediately. His father being fired from a school, I think would qualify as a hardship because it'd be pretty uncomfortable for the kid to return and play for the next coach. It isn't like his dad left CMU for another gig, he was fired.

[dcar1985]

At this point, would it be accurate to say there's three big men who could potentially fill one spot?

If Mason stays, would our chances with Parker diminish? If Mason stays, I assume Oriakhi would not be interested in backup minutes.

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi and Parker could co-exist conceivably, but probably would not want to be in a position to split minutes. So I'm assuming we will not have two of Mason/Parker/Oriakhi next year.

I don't think Oriakhi would mind splitting minutes w/ Parker or playing beside him or Kelly......I've seen quite a few people on the board misinterpret the reason behind him calling Calhoun an idiot...it was actually in response to someone saying that he should be playing Oriakhi and Drummond together more.

[uh_no]

I don't think Oriakhi would mind splitting minutes w/ Parker or playing beside him or Kelly......I've seen quite a few people on the board misinterpret the reason behind him calling Calhoun an idiot...it was actually in response to someone saying that he should be playing Oriakhi and Drummond together more.

So how do you explain away his being quoted on calling his mid-season benching "BS" ?

[dcar1985]

So how do you explain away his being quoted on calling his mid-season benching "BS" ?

Big difference between the two situations...If he felt like it was "bs" then oh well....I think its understandable to be pissed about being benched if you feel like you could be contributing and helping the team....these are 19-20 year old kids not robots, he's going to feel some type of way about it.....now should he have went to twitter to tell the world...nah

[Kedsy]

I think that there is a fairly decent chance Zeigler is eligible immediately. His father being fired from a school, I think would qualify as a hardship because it'd be pretty uncomfortable for the kid to return and play for the next coach. It isn't like his dad left CMU for another gig, he was fired.

It's hard to predict what the NCAA will do in any situation. So, like I said in my earlier post, I have no idea how probable it is to be granted the waiver.

[uh_no]

Big difference between the two situations...If he felt like it was "bs" then oh well....I think its understandable to be pissed about being benched if you feel like you could be contributing and helping the team....these are 19-20 year old kids not robots, he's going to feel some type of way about it.....now should he have went to twitter to tell the world...nah

Fair enough. As someone who has closely followed this team, I can say that the general perception in CT was that he wasn't happy having to share time. Some of his other quotes in relation to his benching were like "2 year starter and this is how i'm rewarded"...If you want to explain those away, that's fine. Just as someone who follows both duke and uconn closely, I can't imagine that he has the kind of attitude that one would expect of a duke basketball player.

[dcar1985]

Fair enough. As someone who has closely followed this team, I can say that the general perception in CT was that he wasn't happy having to share time. Some of his other quotes in relation to his benching were like "2 year starter and this is how i'm rewarded"...If you want to explain those away, that's fine. Just as someone who follows both duke and uconn closely, I can't imagine that he has the kind of attitude that one would expect of a duke basketball player.

Im not explaining anything away....I was just speaking specifically to the calling Calhoun an idiot thing and how I had seen people say the reason was for something rather than what it actually was.....I don't know Alex so I can't say much about his attitude.

[superdave]

I don't think Oriakhi would mind splitting minutes w/ Parker or playing beside him or Kelly......I've seen quite a few people on the board misinterpret the reason behind him calling Calhoun an idiot...it was actually in response to someone saying that he should be playing Oriakhi and Drummond together more.

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi (immediately eligible) and Parker come to Duke, here's some breakdown of the minutes. (I just loooove breaking down distribution of minutes):

5 - Ryan 30 minutes, Oriakhi 10, Marshall 0
4 - Parker 20, Josh 15, Alex 5 (plus some minutes at the 3).

I dont see how Oriakhi or Parker signs up for that. I think I'd rather just get one of these two if Mason goes, so we the bench is not too long. Plus it would be better to develop Marshall than not.

[ThePublisher]

Can't find the link right now, but I'm pretty sure this guy isn't considering Duke. Unc-ch is on the short list though.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi (immediately eligible) and Parker come to Duke, here's some breakdown of the minutes. (I just loooove breaking down distribution of minutes):

5 - Ryan 30 minutes, Oriakhi 10, Marshall 0
4 - Parker 20, Josh 15, Alex 5 (plus some minutes at the 3).

I dont see how Oriakhi or Parker signs up for that. I think I'd rather just get one of these two if Mason goes, so we the bench is not too long. Plus it would be better to develop Marshall than not.
I don't see Marshall, the tallest guy on the team, a McD's AA, a guy who just spent a year on the bench learning the system, sitting on his butt for next season as well. IF that happens (which it won't), he'll transfer. I would.

[CDu]

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi (immediately eligible) and Parker come to Duke, here's some breakdown of the minutes. (I just loooove breaking down distribution of minutes):

5 - Ryan 30 minutes, Oriakhi 10, Marshall 0
4 - Parker 20, Josh 15, Alex 5 (plus some minutes at the 3).

I dont see how Oriakhi or Parker signs up for that. I think I'd rather just get one of these two if Mason goes, so we the bench is not too long. Plus it would be better to develop Marshall than not.

I agree that there's no chance we get both Parker and Oriakhi. I'd say that we will have at most one of Mason, Oriakhi, and Parker. That may even expand to mean one of Mason, Oriakhi, Parker, and Jefferson. All of these guys are presumably going to expect an opportunity to play major minutes right away. In Mason's and Oriakhi's cases it's completely understandable; they are seniors who have played major minutes during their careers already. In Parker's and Jefferson's cases it may or may not be an unfounded expectation, but it's probably still an expectation that will drive their decisions.

[budwom]

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi (immediately eligible) and Parker come to Duke, here's some breakdown of the minutes. (I just loooove breaking down distribution of minutes):

5 - Ryan 30 minutes, Oriakhi 10, Marshall 0
4 - Parker 20, Josh 15, Alex 5 (plus some minutes at the 3).

I dont see how Oriakhi or Parker signs up for that. I think I'd rather just get one of these two if Mason goes, so we the bench is not too long. Plus it would be better to develop Marshall than not.

So you see the 270 lb guy playing PF and Kelly in the post?
That makes no sense whatsoever. None.
But probably a moot point.

[CDu]

If Mason goes pro, Oriakhi (immediately eligible) and Parker come to Duke, here's some breakdown of the minutes. (I just loooove breaking down distribution of minutes):

5 - Ryan 30 minutes, Oriakhi 10, Marshall 0
4 - Parker 20, Josh 15, Alex 5 (plus some minutes at the 3).

I dont see how Oriakhi or Parker signs up for that. I think I'd rather just get one of these two if Mason goes, so we the bench is not too long. Plus it would be better to develop Marshall than not.


I don't see Marshall, the tallest guy on the team, a McD's AA, a guy who just spent a year on the bench learning the system, sitting on his butt for next season as well. IF that happens (which it won't), he'll transfer. I would.


So you see the 270 lb guy playing PF and Kelly in the post?
That makes no sense whatsoever. None.
But probably a moot point.

I think that was kind of superdave's point. It isn't going to happen. Doesn't really matter how the minutes would be distributed.

That said, I agree that the more accurate minutes distribution in that scenario would be different. Perhaps more like:

C - Oriakhi (20), Parker/Marshall (20)
PF - Kelly (30), Oriakhi, (5), Murphy (5, with more minutes at SF)

But even then, I don't see Parker signing up for a backup role next year and I don't see Oriakhi going anywhere where he isn't a sure starter. And I agree that if Marshall were to see very minor minutes next year, it would be understandable to ponder a future elsewhere.

[superdave]

So you see the 270 lb guy playing PF and Kelly in the post?
That makes no sense whatsoever. None.
But probably a moot point.

So are you ok pushing Ryan Kelly to the 4 and Alex to the 3 which would really kill minutes for Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije?

Be careful for what you wish for.

Ryan splitting minutes at the 5 with Marshall makes us a lot more athletic at the 3 and 4, which is what everyone complained we were not this season. Ryan at the 4 means we're going bigger and our wings are getting pinched on minutes.

[FerryFor50]

So are you ok pushing Ryan Kelly to the 4 and Alex to the 3 which would really kill minutes for Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije?

Be careful for what you wish for.

Ryan splitting minutes at the 5 with Marshall makes us a lot more athletic at the 3 and 4, which is what everyone complained we were not this season. Ryan at the 4 means we're going bigger and our wings are getting pinched on minutes.

I think it will depend on matchups.

A lot of games, Kelly at the 5 makes sense. Other games, it might make more sense to put him at the "stretch 4" position.

But what it does is give Duke flexibility.

[jimsumner]

I think it will depend on matchups.

A lot of games, Kelly at the 5 makes sense. Other games, it might make more sense to put him at the "stretch 4" position.

But what it does is give Duke flexibility.

I would think that Josh Hairston has earned a spot at the grown-up table.

[budwom]

So are you ok pushing Ryan Kelly to the 4 and Alex to the 3 which would really kill minutes for Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije?

Be careful for what you wish for.

Ryan splitting minutes at the 5 with Marshall makes us a lot more athletic at the 3 and 4, which is what everyone complained we were not this season. Ryan at the 4 means we're going bigger and our wings are getting pinched on minutes.


Well, you're really not making ANY sense here, dave. "Pushing" Kelly to the spot he has played all along and is best suited for doesn't seem too shocking. He's an outside shooter with very limited strength, and few post moves.
Parker is a hulk with inside moves and ability (and perhaps desire) to defend inside.

As far as minutes and Dawkins are concerned, that doesn't have a whole lot to do with Kelly. It has everything to do with Dawkins and how he plays. If he plays with confidence and intensity, he plays regardless of where Kelly is.

[FerryFor50]

I would think that Josh Hairston has earned a spot at the grown-up table.

Oh, no doubt.

I wasn't leaving him out. Just focusing on the "where Kelly would play" notion.

I can't even fathom a rotation until we know for sure who will be here next year and able to play.

[superdave]

Well, you're really not making ANY sense here, dave. "Pushing" Kelly to the spot he has played all along and is best suited for doesn't seem too shocking. He's an outside shooter with very limited strength, and few post moves.
Parker is a hulk with inside moves and ability (and perhaps desire) to defend inside.

As far as minutes and Dawkins are concerned, that doesn't have a whole lot to do with Kelly. It has everything to do with Dawkins and how he plays. If he plays with confidence and intensity, he plays regardless of where Kelly is.

So if Kelly plays the 4 for 30 minutes a game, which is a slight increase over this season, then Josh will play 10 minutes at the 4 while Marshall and some combination of Tony Parker/Alex Oriakhi/Mason Plumlee split the minutes at 5. Is that what you imagine?

Under that scenario, we will split 40 minutes between Alex Murphy, Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije at the 3. Do you think those three will be happy?

The 3 is most definitely affected by our depth at the 4 and 5, which is the point I was making. You claim otherwise, but do not provide any explanation to back up that assertion.

[Duvall]

So if Kelly plays the 4 for 30 minutes a game, which is a slight increase over this season, then Josh will play 10 minutes at the 4 while Marshall and some combination of Tony Parker/Alex Oriakhi/Mason Plumlee split the minutes at 5. Is that what you imagine?

Under that scenario, we will split 40 minutes between Alex Murphy, Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije at the 3. Do you think those three will be happy?

Well, it would still be an upgrade for Gbinije and Murphy, so maybe they would be okay with that.

[mr. synellinden]

I think that was kind of superdave's point. It isn't going to happen. Doesn't really matter how the minutes would be distributed.

That said, I agree that the more accurate minutes distribution in that scenario would be different. Perhaps more like:

C - Oriakhi (20), Parker/Marshall (20)
PF - Kelly (30), Oriakhi, (5), Murphy (5, with more minutes at SF)

But even then, I don't see Parker signing up for a backup role next year and I don't see Oriakhi going anywhere where he isn't a sure starter. And I agree that if Marshall were to see very minor minutes next year, it would be understandable to ponder a future elsewhere.

If Parker wants a guarantee that he is not going to have a backup role, then he is not coming to Duke. Same for Oriakhi or any other recruit for that matter. Coach K would never guarantee anything with respect to playing time. See, Humphries, Kris.

If Mason does leave, I suspect Oriakhi would start for Duke along with Kelly and one of Hairston/Gbinijie/Murphy/Sulaimon. And then Curry and Cook/Thronton in the backcourt.

If Parker came too, he would be competing with MPIII for backup time. If only Parker came, I suspect he would be competing with MPIII for a starting position. I can't see Kelly starting as our "center". Although we've had guys like Brickey, John Smith and even Chris Carrawell start at the "5".

[CDu]

If Parker wants a guarantee that he is not going to have a backup role, then he is not coming to Duke. Same for Oriakhi or any other recruit for that matter. Coach K would never guarantee anything with respect to playing time. See, Humphries, Kris.

If Mason does leave, I suspect Oriakhi would start for Duke along with Kelly and one of Hairston/Gbinijie/Murphy/Sulaimon. And then Curry and Cook/Thronton in the backcourt.

If Parker came too, he would be competing with MPIII for backup time. If only Parker came, I suspect he would be competing with MPIII for a starting position. I can't see Kelly starting as our "center". Although we've had guys like Brickey, John Smith and even Chris Carrawell start at the "5".

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

Oriakhi is absolutely not going anywhere to compete for minutes at the C spot. He's going to go somewhere where he'll be the unquestioned starter. If Mason or Parker is at Duke, then Oriakhi will not be.

Parker is most likely looking for a place where he'll have a real shot at major minutes early. If Mason or Oriakhi is there, that goes out the window and Parker probably doesn't come to Duke. If neither of the senior options are there, Duke is very much on the table as he'd have an opportunity to win the starting job (competing with Marshall). Even then, I'd say there's no guarantee he'd choose that over a team with a more clear opening.

[gumbomoop]

I would think that Josh Hairston has earned a spot at the grown-up table.

Amen. And which spot is an interesting issue.

Depending on exactly who our bigs are next season, Josh will play some 4 and quite possibly 5. For example, the "worst case but plausible" scenario is that our bigs consist only of Ryan, Josh, Marshall, and Alex Murphy. In that case, Josh would play substantial minutes. Further, when he's on the floor with Murphy, Josh is the 5. When he's on the floor with Marshall, Josh is the 4. When Josh and Kelly are on together, they flip-flop regularly, depending on matchups.

Unless Mason stays or TP or AO arrives, it sure seems clear that our inside rotation will require 3 of the 4 guys to play somewhat-sometimes out of position.

K needs some challenges; this scenario presents several.

[Starter]

I don't think Oriakhi's coming, I think Mason's going, and I do think Parker has a very good chance to start if he comes to Duke by virtue of a thin frontcourt. And not for nothing, Krzyzewski has made no secret of how much he wants Parker to come to Duke. I mean, every time I look up, he keeps flying out to see him. I would imagine what he's telling him is that the lane is wide open for him, so to speak, assuming he shows up and works hard.

[budwom]

So if Kelly plays the 4 for 30 minutes a game, which is a slight increase over this season, then Josh will play 10 minutes at the 4 while Marshall and some combination of Tony Parker/Alex Oriakhi/Mason Plumlee split the minutes at 5. Is that what you imagine?

Under that scenario, we will split 40 minutes between Alex Murphy, Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije at the 3. Do you think those three will be happy?

The 3 is most definitely affected by our depth at the 4 and 5, which is the point I was making. You claim otherwise, but do not provide any explanation to back up that assertion.

I'll leave the minute-bation to you, Dave. I think it's utterly pointless at this point until who know who leaves and who arrives.
But I do know that your original notion of Kelly playing 30 minutes in the post and Jason Parker at PF playing 20 minutes is just plain nonsensical.
And I don't think you can find three rational people who agree with you on this point.

[CDu]

I'll leave the minute-bation to you, Dave. I think it's utterly pointless at this point until who know who leaves and who arrives.
But I do know that your original notion of Kelly playing 30 minutes in the post and Jason Parker at PF playing 20 minutes is just plain nonsensical.
And I don't think you can find three rational people who agree with you on this point.

Jason Parker? Have we gone back in time? :)

I would be intrigued by a lineup with Kelly at the C and Murphy/Hairston at the PF. But I'd also be intrigued by a lineup with Kelly at PF and Murphy/Gbinije/Dawkins at SF. Of course, that's not really the suggestion that was being debated.

I agree with you that if Parker arrives, he will not be playing PF. I agree with superdave that SG and SF (or the wing spots) is the position at which we're likely to be the most crowded next year.

[superdave]

I'll leave the minute-bation to you, Dave. I think it's utterly pointless at this point until who know who leaves and who arrives.
But I do know that your original notion of Kelly playing 30 minutes in the post and Jason Parker at PF playing 20 minutes is just plain nonsensical.
And I don't think you can find three rational people who agree with you on this point.

My point is sensiscal. Saying it's not does not make it so.

There's a very good chance Ryan Kelly will be our starting center next year. That scenario is likely if Mason goes pro and we get neither Parker nor Oriakhi. I'd argue that having Ryan, but none of Mason/Oriakhi/Parker has a 50% probability of occuring. What do you think the probability is of that?

If that scenario plays out, the only way Ryan avoids playing center is if Marshall, Josh Hairston and Alex Murphy play center. I think Marshall plays 10+ minutes per game at center. I think Alex splits time at the 3/4 and Josh plays some minutes at the 4, with neither playing the 5. Therefore, Ryan would have to play the minutes at the 5 that Marshall does not.

I actually think Ryan at the 5 is a good thing for Duke because it creates all kinds of matchup problems for other teams when Duke is on offense, and Ryan can more than hold his own defensively. He does need to improve his rebounding.

Are there any rational people out there who can see 6'11' Ryan Kelly playing the 5 next year?

[Duvall]

My point is sensiscal. Saying it's not does not make it so.

There's a very good chance Ryan Kelly will be our starting center next year. That scenario is likely if Mason goes pro and we get neither Parker nor Oriakhi. I'd argue that having Ryan, but none of Mason/Oriakhi/Parker has a 50% probability of occuring. What do you think the probability is of that?

If that scenario plays out, the only way Ryan avoids playing center is if Marshall, Josh Hairston and Alex Murphy play center. I think Marshall plays 10+ minutes per game at center. I think Alex splits time at the 3/4 and Josh plays some minutes at the 4, with neither playing the 5. Therefore, Ryan would have to play the minutes at the 5 that Marshall does not.

I actually think Ryan at the 5 is a good thing for Duke because it creates all kinds of matchup problems for other teams when Duke is on offense, and Ryan can more than hold his own defensively. He does need to improve his rebounding.

Are there any rational people out there who can see 6'11' Ryan Kelly playing the 5 next year?

I think the skepticism was about the scenario in which Parker (1) commits to Duke, and (2) is ready to play at least 20 minutes per game. In that case it's hard to see Kelly starting at center.

[CDu]

My point is sensiscal. Saying it's not does not make it so.

There's a very good chance Ryan Kelly will be our starting center next year. That scenario is likely if Mason goes pro and we get neither Parker nor Oriakhi. I'd argue that having Ryan, but none of Mason/Oriakhi/Parker has a 50% probability of occuring. What do you think the probability is of that?

If that scenario plays out, the only way Ryan avoids playing center is if Marshall, Josh Hairston and Alex Murphy play center. I think Marshall plays 10+ minutes per game at center. I think Alex splits time at the 3/4 and Josh plays some minutes at the 4, with neither playing the 5. Therefore, Ryan would have to play the minutes at the 5 that Marshall does not.

I actually think Ryan at the 5 is a good thing for Duke because it creates all kinds of matchup problems for other teams when Duke is on offense, and Ryan can more than hold his own defensively. He does need to improve his rebounding.

Are there any rational people out there who can see 6'11' Ryan Kelly playing the 5 next year?

I completely agree with you on this. However, I'll say that I completely disagreed with you when you had Kelly at the C and Parker at the PF. That's just not going to happen. Parker will play whatever minutes he plays at C. It would seem that a lot of the back and forth from your post is related to that disagreement.

I think we'll have no more than one of Mason, Oriakhi, and Parker. If (and perhaps only if) we have none of them, then Kelly very likely starts at C with either Hairston or Murphy playing PF. I'd expect those two to be ahead of Marshall in terms of development, and I'd expect Marshall to play backup C.

[mkline09]

My point is sensiscal. Saying it's not does not make it so.

There's a very good chance Ryan Kelly will be our starting center next year. That scenario is likely if Mason goes pro and we get neither Parker nor Oriakhi. I'd argue that having Ryan, but none of Mason/Oriakhi/Parker has a 50% probability of occuring. What do you think the probability is of that?

If that scenario plays out, the only way Ryan avoids playing center is if Marshall, Josh Hairston and Alex Murphy play center. I think Marshall plays 10+ minutes per game at center. I think Alex splits time at the 3/4 and Josh plays some minutes at the 4, with neither playing the 5. Therefore, Ryan would have to play the minutes at the 5 that Marshall does not.

I actually think Ryan at the 5 is a good thing for Duke because it creates all kinds of matchup problems for other teams when Duke is on offense, and Ryan can more than hold his own defensively. He does need to improve his rebounding.

Are there any rational people out there who can see 6'11' Ryan Kelly playing the 5 next year?

I wouldn't have pegged Ryan Kelly at the 5 but you make a good point. Duke has had a few seasons without a true 5. My biggest concern is how Ryan would guard a bigger stronger big man on the defensive end. He does create an offensive mismatch but defensively is where I see the biggest concerns wtih him playing center.

[CDu]

I wouldn't have pegged Ryan Kelly at the 5 but you make a good point. Duke has had a few seasons without a true 5. My biggest concern is how Ryan would guard a bigger stronger big man on the defensive end. He does create an offensive mismatch but defensively is where I see the biggest concerns wtih him playing center.

I've said it before, but I think he'd actually match up better against a C than against the typical college PF. Looking around at the other PF in the ACC next year, I see Kelly as being significantly less quick/explosive than them. At C, with another year of strength training and work in the post, I think Kelly can hold his own against all but the strongest of C. But I don't see him getting quick enough to stay in front of the Okaro Whites, James McAdoos, Dorian Finney-Smiths, CJ Leslies, and Ryan Andersons of the world.

[niveklaen]

I completely agree with you on this. However, I'll say that I completely disagreed with you when you had Kelly at the C and Parker at the PF. That's just not going to happen. Parker will play whatever minutes he plays at C. It would seem that a lot of the back and forth from your post is related to that disagreement.

I think we'll have no more than one of Mason, Oriakhi, and Parker. If (and perhaps only if) we have none of them, then Kelly very likely starts at C with either Hairston or Murphy playing PF. I'd expect those two to be ahead of Marshall in terms of development, and I'd expect Marshall to play backup C.

I don't think Superdave ever said that Parker would play the 4 next to Kelly at the 5. He said:

Originally Posted by superdave
So if Kelly plays the 4 for 30 minutes a game, which is a slight increase over this season, then Josh will play 10 minutes at the 4 while Marshall and some combination of Tony Parker/Alex Oriakhi/Mason Plumlee split the minutes at 5. Is that what you imagine?

[CDu]

I don't think Superdave ever said that Parker would play the 4 next to Kelly at the 5. He said:

Originally Posted by superdave
So if Kelly plays the 4 for 30 minutes a game, which is a slight increase over this season, then Josh will play 10 minutes at the 4 while Marshall and some combination of Tony Parker/Alex Oriakhi/Mason Plumlee split the minutes at 5. Is that what you imagine?

That is a follow-up post, not the one in question. Read back a few more posts and you'll see the one I'm referencing.

[nocilla]

So if Kelly plays the 4 for 30 minutes a game, which is a slight increase over this season, then Josh will play 10 minutes at the 4 while Marshall and some combination of Tony Parker/Alex Oriakhi/Mason Plumlee split the minutes at 5. Is that what you imagine?

Under that scenario, we will split 40 minutes between Alex Murphy, Andre Dawkins and Michael Gbinije at the 3. Do you think those three will be happy?


I don't see a problem with Murphy, Dawkins, and Gbinijie splitting the 40 minutes at the 3 especially if Dawkins can also get time at the 2 when Curry takes a breather.


I actually think Ryan at the 5 is a good thing for Duke because it creates all kinds of matchup problems for other teams when Duke is on offense, and Ryan can more than hold his own defensively. He does need to improve his rebounding.

Are there any rational people out there who can see 6'11' Ryan Kelly playing the 5 next year?

I can see it, mostly if Mason leaves. Even this year Kelly played some at the 5 in certain situations. Ideally though, he is a more natural 4 and we will have a better rebounder at the 5.

[CDu]

I don't see a problem with Murphy, Dawkins, and Gbinijie splitting the 40 minutes at the 3 especially if Dawkins can also get time at the 2 when Curry takes a breather.

And in that scenario, you're squeezing Sulaimon who looks like he may warrant at least solid backup minutes (if not a starting spot altogether).

[superdave]

I wouldn't have pegged Ryan Kelly at the 5 but you make a good point. Duke has had a few seasons without a true 5. My biggest concern is how Ryan would guard a bigger stronger big man on the defensive end. He does create an offensive mismatch but defensively is where I see the biggest concerns wtih him playing center.

We just wont face those guys next year very often. Zeller is graduating. Reggie Johnson will be a senior. Alex Len kinda stinks. So I dont think it's a big deal.

As for saying Tony Parker at the 4 and Kelly at the 5, fine. Parker would play the 5 if he comes. But even if he does come, is it likely he and Marshall combine for 40 minutes at the 5? I say no. Shelden only played 19 minutes per game his freshman year and he's a way bigger recruit than Parker. So I think Kelly would still play some 5, considering Coach K plays his best 5 a lot of minutes.

I think you'll see some Kelly, Murphy, Andre, Sulaimon, Seth lineups next year regardless of who comes and who goes. I'd really love to see us go small and run on some teams next year. We have the speed and depth to run and press and I'd like to see it early and often.

[superdave]

Alright. Alright. Back to the original point of this thread. Alex Oriakhi.

He basically has to wait for the NBA declarations and the high school recruits to make up their mind before he jumps, right? He's circling, waiting for the right opening.

[gumbomoop]

I'd argue that having Ryan, but none of Mason/Oriakhi/Parker has a 50% probability of occuring. What do you think the probability is of that?

If that scenario plays out.... Ryan would have to play the minutes at the 5 that Marshall does not.

Are there any rational people out there who can see 6'11' Ryan Kelly playing the 5 next year?

I am not rational where Duke hoops are concerned. That said, my post above [#81] considers your "50% probability scenario" and mostly agrees with you, with one exception.

I have no problem seeing Ryan play some 5 next year, absent Mason, etc. But I don't quite agree that all the non-Marshall minutes at the 5 will be Ryan's. I'll guess that when Ryan and Josh are on the floor together, they'll be flip-flopping 4s and 5s, depending on matchups. Sometimes on O, Ryan would be inside, for he does in fact have some interior moves, as we very occasionally saw this season. And he would be the logical defender against some, but not all, opposing 5s. Sometimes Ryan would instead guard the opposing 4, and sometimes on O, he'd be back out on the wing, shooting the 3 and/or passing into Josh for an inside move or short turnaround jumper, which Josh actually likes.

[nocilla]

And in that scenario, you're squeezing Sulaimon who looks like he may warrant at least solid backup minutes (if not a starting spot altogether).

Well someone will get squeezed even if we don't add anyone else to the mix. Sulaimon as a freshman is as good a bet as anyone else. It may be Dawkins, Cook, Gbinijie, Murphy, Marshall, or some combination. We are only losing 2 maybe 3 players and we already have 3 joining. Gbinijie and Hairston (until Kelly was hurt) were squeezed out this year so we can expect 2 or 3 to be squeezed out in the coming year, more if anyone else gets on board.

[CDu]

Alright. Alright. Back to the original point of this thread. Alex Oriakhi.

He basically has to wait for the NBA declarations and the high school recruits to make up their mind before he jumps, right? He's circling, waiting for the right opening.

That would be my guess as well. Unless he's planning to go to a place that has a pretty clear picture in their frontcourt (like Missouri). If he's thinking about UK, Kansas, UNC, Duke, or many others, he's going to likely have to wait a month or so.

[Monmouth77]

Those of you saying that Kelly couldn't play center for Duke must be forgetting the late '80s and early '90s when Duke patrolled the paint exclusively with 6'11 face-up shooters named Ferry and Laettner. Obviously those guys had more talent and (a few) more post moves than we've seen Kelly execute, and Kelly has a lot more shooting range. But sylistically, it's the same idea and not too crazy.

[gumbomoop]

Well someone will get squeezed even if we don't add anyone else to the mix.... We can expect 2 or 3 to be squeezed out in the coming year, more if anyone else gets on board.

I'd only dissent to the extent that - if Mason leaves and no one else comes - the "squeezing" will be minimal and come only in the second half of the season. In the 10-man-roster-scenario, I'll guess that K might have a legitimate 9-man rotation all season long, with the 10th guy still playing a few minutes late-season most games. Marshall might be the most likely 10th guy, but if we have but 10 players, and but 3 other bigs, none of whom is a traditional 5, Marshall would not likely slide all the way to DNP.

[CDu]

Well someone will get squeezed even if we don't add anyone else to the mix. Sulaimon as a freshman is as good a bet as anyone else. It may be Dawkins, Cook, Gbinijie, Murphy, Marshall, or some combination. We are only losing 2 maybe 3 players and we already have 3 joining. Gbinijie and Hairston (until Kelly was hurt) were squeezed out this year so we can expect 2 or 3 to be squeezed out in the coming year, more if anyone else gets on board.

Completely agree that someone will get squeezed. I just have a suspicion that it won't be Sulaimon. And I was just noting for full disclosure that someone is going to be getting squeezed so long as we have 10 or 11 recruited players on the roster.

[loldevilz]

Completely agree that someone will get squeezed. I just have a suspicion that it won't be Sulaimon. And I was just noting for full disclosure that someone is going to be getting squeezed so long as we have 10 or 11 recruited players on the roster.

You don't have to squeeze. FSU plays 10 deep and it works for them. Coach K squeezes because he wants to develop leaders and he wants to play his stars. It works for him. I agree that Sulaimon won't get squeezed. I think that Gbinije will be the one squeezed. One that I've come to understand is that the easiest way to get on the court at Duke is not to play defense, its to shoot threes. When's the last time Coach K has benched a great 3 point shooter?

[Indoor66]

I am amazed that no one thinks that Marshall will get any burn. He is 7' and what - 245-250. He has been in the system for a year and practicing against the current Duke bigs. He may surprise the posters here.

[moonpie23]

i think marshal surprises ALL of us......i noticed during some video of the team in hawaii that the kid is cut....hard....

he's been watching the elder bros for years.......he knows what he has to bring to the table...

[loldevilz]

i think marshal surprises ALL of us......i noticed during some video of the team in hawaii that the kid is cut....hard....

he's been watching the elder bros for years.......he knows what he has to bring to the table...

I've seen him around campus and he is definitely tall than his bros but he looks kind of skinny to me- more like Mason than Miles.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

You don't have to squeeze. FSU plays 10 deep and it works for them. Coach K squeezes because he wants to develop leaders and he wants to play his stars. It works for him. I agree that Sulaimon won't get squeezed. I think that Gbinije will be the one squeezed. One that I've come to understand is that the easiest way to get on the court at Duke is not to play defense, its to shoot threes. When's the last time Coach K has benched a great 3 point shooter?

Andre Dawkins

Taylor King

Just off the top of my head... give us some time and I'm sure there's more.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I am amazed that no one thinks that Marshall will get any burn. He is 7' and what - 245-250. He has been in the system for a year and practicing against the current Duke bigs. He may surprise the posters here.
I'm with you. As I stated earlier in this thread, you don't sit a guy with that much size that has spent the last year learning the system. And as I said, IF he does ride the pine next year, I would think we'll see some talk about a possible transfer. I don't think he would be into giving up two years of his athletic life to sit on the bench, knowing that at several other schools he'd be getting tons of minutes.

[CDu]

You don't have to squeeze. FSU plays 10 deep and it works for them. Coach K squeezes because he wants to develop leaders and he wants to play his stars. It works for him. I agree that Sulaimon won't get squeezed. I think that Gbinije will be the one squeezed. One that I've come to understand is that the easiest way to get on the court at Duke is not to play defense, its to shoot threes. When's the last time Coach K has benched a great 3 point shooter?

Clearly you don't HAVE to squeeze guys out. FSU and UNC are examples of that, and there are others. But we're discussing Duke, and Duke has historically not gone more than 8-9 deep except in very rare circumstances and we've frequently trimmed to 6-7 deep come tourney time. The reality is that if we've got 10 or more guys, someone is likely to get squeezed.

As for benching 3pt shooters, we've had this discussion before. Coach K benched Dawkins this year and he played Dawkins as little as possible as a freshman (despite only having 3 guards on the roster). He benched Paulus his senior year. He benched Taylor King. He benched Ryan Kelly as a freshman. He benched Lee Melchionni. Shooting 3s will not by itself keep you on the court. You have to bring more to the table than that.

[CameronBornAndBred]

He's been officially released, so that hurdle is crossed. It looks like there isn't much interest in us, but I bet unc will look pretty appealing to him, especially since they are probably gonna have some seats open very soon.



A source close to the situation said Kentucky, North Carolina, Missouri and Duke are among the teams that have contacted Oriakhi. There appears to be mutual interest with the first three, but it seems unlikely that Oriakhi will consider Duke.
http://www.ctpost.com/uconn/article/Oriakhi-officially-released-from-scholarship-at-3439301.php#ixzz1qR39e5TI

[nocilla]

I'd only dissent to the extent that - if Mason leaves and no one else comes - the "squeezing" will be minimal and come only in the second half of the season. In the 10-man-roster-scenario, I'll guess that K might have a legitimate 9-man rotation all season long, with the 10th guy still playing a few minutes late-season most games. Marshall might be the most likely 10th guy, but if we have but 10 players, and but 3 other bigs, none of whom is a traditional 5, Marshall would not likely slide all the way to DNP.

This whole discussion really belongs in the 'Looking ahead to next year' thread.

The 10 man roster is what we had this year. Gbinijie was squeezed out and Hairston played sparingly. If that is what you mean by minimal squeezing then yes. Because even if Mason leaves and no one else joins, we will still have 10 scholarship players plus Zafirovski next year. If Mason returns or anyone else joins, we will have more guys looking for minutes next year than we did this year.

[superdave]

This whole discussion really belongs in the 'Looking ahead to next year' thread.

The 10 man roster is what we had this year. Gbinijie was squeezed out and Hairston played sparingly. If that is what you mean by minimal squeezing then yes. Because even if Mason leaves and no one else joins, we will still have 10 scholarship players plus Zafirovski next year. If Mason returns or anyone else joins, we will have more guys looking for minutes next year than we did this year.

I do think distribution of minutes is important in the Oriakhi thread, because it illustrates that our bench is long and minutes are few.

[unexpected]

I am amazed that no one thinks that Marshall will get any burn. He is 7' and what - 245-250. He has been in the system for a year and practicing against the current Duke bigs. He may surprise the posters here.

Height and weight do not make a basketball player. Nick Horvath, Brian Zoubek, Michael Thompson, and Eric Boateng were all big, tall centers who did not get incredible amounts of minutes in the early parts of their careers.

[mr. synellinden]

You don't have to squeeze. FSU plays 10 deep and it works for them. Coach K squeezes because he wants to develop leaders and he wants to play his stars. It works for him. I agree that Sulaimon won't get squeezed. I think that Gbinije will be the one squeezed. One that I've come to understand is that the easiest way to get on the court at Duke is not to play defense, its to shoot threes. When's the last time Coach K has benched a great 3 point shooter?

I think the complete opposite is true. Andre Dawkins is the best example of this. Andre Dawkins is one of the best shooters to play at Duke, and so far has been one of the worst defensive players. Thomas Hill started over Billy McCaffrey and it was not because he was a better 3-point shooter.

[A-Tex Devil]

I do think distribution of minutes is important in the Oriakhi thread, because it illustrates that our bench is long and minutes are few.

Is our bench long, though? In scholarship players, sure, but in guys that can give >10+ effective minutes off of the bench on both sides of the floor? I'm not sure we know that yet except with Curry, Kelly, Plumlee, Cook/Thornton as an amalgamam (if only we could combine them into 1 super PG), and perhaps Dawkins. Everyone else could be all-ACC or they could be Joey Beard.

Oriakhi (to bring this back) is more or less a proven commodity. I don't have any doubt he'd log 15-25 minutes a game for us if he came in.

[superdave]

Is our bench long, though? In scholarship players, sure, but in guys that can give >10+ effective minutes off of the bench on both sides of the floor? I'm not sure we know that yet except with Curry, Kelly, Plumlee, Cook/Thornton as an amalgamam (if only we could combine them into 1 super PG), and perhaps Dawkins. Everyone else could be all-ACC or they could be Joey Beard.

Oriakhi (to bring this back) is more or less a proven commodity. I don't have any doubt he'd log 15-25 minutes a game for us if he came in.

We're losing Miles' 20 minutes, Austin's 33 and maybe Mason's 28.

I am assuming Sulaimon, Murphy, Marshall and Gbinije would all be able to play 15+ each, with Murphy and Sulaimon maybe earning more.

The thing is, if you add another big guy - Parker, Oriakhi, Jefferson - then our rotation is bigger, at the expense of the wings. If you do not add another big guy and Mason goes pro, our wings can slide up and we go small and our rotation has a little more breathing room. One more big guy really changes the nature of the team quite a bit, in my opinion.

[Devilsfan]

Ok, so we are unable to add another big. Who gets these multiple minute wings the ball? Do we assume that they are that good that we don't need at least as many second chance opportunities as our opponents? Or do we believe that a red shirt big that wasn't ready for team play this year has a tremendous transformation and becomes the next Anthony Davis or KU's Robinson? I hope the latter is the right answer. I hope our developmental coaching works wonders over the summer, but we will have to wait and see. Go Devils!

[superdave]

Ok, so we are unable to add another big. Who gets these multiple minute wings the ball? Do we assume that they are that good that we don't need at least as many second chance opportunities as our opponents? Or do we believe that a red shirt big that wasn't ready for team play this year has a tremendous transformation and becomes the next Anthony Davis or KU's Robinson? I hope the latter is the right answer. I hope our developmental coaching works wonders over the summer, but we will have to wait and see. Go Devils!

I think if we get one fewer big (ie Mason goes pro and we get none of Jefferson/Parker/Oriakhi) then Murphy would play some at the 4 vs smaller teams and some at 3 vs bigger teams. Murphy splitting time at the 4 with Josh means minutes at the 3 would be split by Dawkins and Gbinije.

If Oriakhi is good enough as a fully developed college player to earn 25 minutes, as people are suggesting, the competition for minutes at the 3 and 4 will be fierce for only a few minutes a piece. That worries me. An unhappy bench is not a good thing.

If the Coaches think they can compete for a title by bringing in Oriakhi, so be it. If they do not think Oriakhi brings a shot at a title, then I think we should pass and spread those minutes amongst the guys on the team today, namely Marshall, Murphy and Gbinije, to get them lots of reps for the future. This is a good problem to have.

[CDu]

I think if we get one fewer big (ie Mason goes pro and we get none of Jefferson/Parker/Oriakhi) then Murphy would play some at the 4 vs smaller teams and some at 3 vs bigger teams. Murphy splitting time at the 4 with Josh means minutes at the 3 would be split by Dawkins and Gbinije.

If Oriakhi is good enough as a fully developed college player to earn 25 minutes, as people are suggesting, the competition for minutes at the 3 and 4 will be fierce for only a few minutes a piece. That worries me. An unhappy bench is not a good thing.

If the Coaches think they can compete for a title by bringing in Oriakhi, so be it. If they do not think Oriakhi brings a shot at a title, then I think we should pass and spread those minutes amongst the guys on the team today, namely Marshall, Murphy and Gbinije, to get them lots of reps for the future. This is a good problem to have.

I think it's pretty clear what should be expected of Oriakhi. Before being supplanted by Drummond (perhaps a mistake?) Oriakhi was a rebounding and defensive force who put up only slightly lesser numbers as a sophomore than Mason put up this year as a junior. I'd expect at least that kind of production next year. I see Oriakhi and Mason as fairly comparable players in terms of size, athleticism, and offensive polish (or lack thereof). Mason is a little more efficient in terms of FG%, but otherwise I see a lot of similarities. Granted, there'd be some hurdles in terms of learning the ropes that would be difficult for Oriakhi as Duke's defensive concepts and communication patterns aren't easy to jump in and handle. So it's not a given that the transition would be seamless.

I'd assume, based on Duke having reached out to Oriakhi, that they think he could help next year. But if we don't get him or Parker and Mason goes pro I think we're still in decent hands. That team gets much quicker (which can actually help on the boards at times) perhaps taller on the wings (which will also help on the boards) and more able to handle the ball than with Oriakhi or Parker. And it'd allow guys to develop with game action.

Granted I'm not sure that team would be threatening for a title next year. But it could go a long way in setting the path for a special team in a year or two.

[Kedsy]

Oriakhi was a rebounding and defensive force who put up only slightly lesser numbers as a sophomore than Mason put up this year as a junior.

What makes Oriakhi interesting to me is his defensive prowess. Add that to Rasheed Sulaimon's supposed on-ball defensive acumen, Seth's quick hands and/or Tyler's strong off-ball D, plus the possibility of more size at the 3, and all of a sudden we're a very strong defensive team. On offense, we'd have a whole bunch of shooters (Ryan, Seth, Andre, Rasheed) and some decent size up front (Oriakhi plus Ryan and Alex or Michael) which combined with our newfound strong D would make for quite the formidable team.

Sounds like it's a longshot that Oriakhi comes to Duke, but it is an interesting possibility.

[uh_no]

What makes Oriakhi interesting to me is his defensive prowess. Add that to Rasheed Sulaimon's supposed on-ball defensive acumen, Seth's quick hands and/or Tyler's strong off-ball D, plus the possibility of more size at the 3, and all of a sudden we're a very strong defensive team. On offense, we'd have a whole bunch of shooters (Ryan, Seth, Andre, Rasheed) and some decent size up front (Oriakhi plus Ryan and Alex or Michael) which combined with our newfound strong D would make for quite the formidable team.

Sounds like it's a longshot that Oriakhi comes to Duke, but it is an interesting possibility.

To me, Oriakhi looked lost on defense all year at Uconn. The switching was awful, for the most part. I have huge doubts whether he could catch on to the likely more complex defense that K would run....especially if he has to help often, depending on what the perimeter D looks like next year.

[Kedsy]

To me, Oriakhi looked lost on defense all year at Uconn. The switching was awful, for the most part. I have huge doubts whether he could catch on to the likely more complex defense that K would run....especially if he has to help often, depending on what the perimeter D looks like next year.

Well, I trust your take on him, you've watched him a lot more than I have. I wonder why Coach K would be interested in him, then?

[uh_no]

Well, I trust your take on him, you've watched him a lot more than I have. I wonder why Coach K would be interested in him, then?

I will say this: fans tend to be much harder on their own teams then is true, or I do anyway. Especially after watching this particular uconn team, you can imagine how I could have a hard time thinking too highly of any player on the team, especially when none stood out as excellent. During the title run, there is no doubt he was essential. he WAS the big man.. there was no drummond...and he though inconsistent at times, he was part of the reason that teams could not do much offensively against them down the stretch. Now, I don't know what changed this year (obviously other than the loss of a certain kemba walker...who was a very very good defender as well), but the defense was as bad as the offense sometimes. Now, there could be a couple reasons for that: a) no kemba, so a less stable perimeter defense, and b) drummond, who didn't really know what he was doing. I think that both of those could have put an undue pressure on alex, and sometimes when the defense fell apart, it was him trying to hold it together....and it was just simply perception (and in my rage at the team, you can't imagine I wanted to go back and figure out exactly who was at fault for every defensive breakdown)...so maybe i am being harsher than I should have been. He did only average 6.7 and 5 a game, for someone who should be a double double machine. Given, uconn's offense was downright horrific, so the decrease in points numbers is highly understandable....but the effort in getting rebounds didn't seem to be there (and that could be a reflection of his seeming unhappiness with both calhoun and sharing PT with Drummond, Oleander, and whomever else)

Either way, what I don't want is duke fans to get their hopes up that this guy is going to be able to anchor the team on both ends of the floor, to be the "banger" down low that so many have wanted for so long. Maybe he can be. Maybe the overall terribleness of the rest of this particular uconn team, I'll use the word incompetence, maybe it made him look like a lot worse player than he really was. I just think he could have given more effort, shown more improvement over the previous year, and taken more of a leading role a team that desperately needed it.

I'm just worried that if he were here, some of the attitude problems (want for minutes, lack of 100% effort) would end with him on the bench even more unhappy, and being more of a handicap for the team. I don't think he's worth the risk for one year...I just don't. Uconn's offense is simpler (lol nonexistent....95% iso....) There defense is simple (very little switching) that he would look like a freshman in K's system, in all honesty. By the time he figured it out, the year would likely be close to done....would he have the patience to figure it out? His disapproval of his benching would seem to indicate he doesn't have that patience.

He will go somewhere where he can start, get a lot of minutes, and be the center of the team, and I don't think that duke would be the best fit for him, and I don't think he is worth the risk for duke.

[Edouble]

Those of you saying that Kelly couldn't play center for Duke must be forgetting the late '80s and early '90s when Duke patrolled the paint exclusively with 6'11 face-up shooters named Ferry and Laettner. Obviously those guys had more talent and (a few) more post moves than we've seen Kelly execute, and Kelly has a lot more shooting range. But sylistically, it's the same idea and not too crazy.

Dude, those two have their jerseys retired.

[Monmouth77]

Dude, those two have their jerseys retired.

"Dude," those are two of the greatest college basketball players of all time.

My point was about style. Folks seem obsessed with the idea that we need a "low post banger" to win titles. It just has not been true for Duke historically, nor does it have to be true in the future.

[Devil's Advocate]

Rivers was interviewed on the radio this morning with Mike and Mike. During the interview he was basically asked if there should be any concern over the cupboard being bare at Duke (or, at least not optimally filled), to which he replied, no. What was a little more intriguing to me was that in addition to praising a few of the remaining and returning players, as well as the red shirt freshman, he said, to paraphrase - we have a transfer coming, too. He said it as if it were a done deal. Did I understand that correctly? Did he tip his hand that Oriakhi is on his way? Anyone else hear that?

[m g]

he said, to paraphrase - we have a transfer coming, too. He said it as if it were a done deal. Did I understand that correctly? Did he tip his hand that Oriakhi is on his way? Anyone else hear that?

Based on what's been posted on the board (article saying Oriakhi won't consider Duke, tweets from Duke players about Ziegler's visit), I'd say it's more likely that this refers to Ziegler, if anyone.

[freshmanjs]

Rivers was interviewed on the radio this morning with Mike and Mike. During the interview he was basically asked if there should be any concern over the cupboard being bare at Duke (or, at least not optimally filled), to which he replied, no. What was a little more intriguing to me was that in addition to praising a few of the remaining and returning players, as well as the red shirt freshman, he said, to paraphrase - we have a transfer coming, too. He said it as if it were a done deal. Did I understand that correctly? Did he tip his hand that Oriakhi is on his way? Anyone else hear that?

didn't hear it but he also could have meant zeigler

[CDu]

Rivers was interviewed on the radio this morning with Mike and Mike. During the interview he was basically asked if there should be any concern over the cupboard being bare at Duke (or, at least not optimally filled), to which he replied, no. What was a little more intriguing to me was that in addition to praising a few of the remaining and returning players, as well as the red shirt freshman, he said, to paraphrase - we have a transfer coming, too. He said it as if it were a done deal. Did I understand that correctly? Did he tip his hand that Oriakhi is on his way? Anyone else hear that?

Considering that Zeigler has already had an official visit to Duke and Rivers has been around the team since then, I'd read that as Zeigler is a strong possibility. Nothing seems to indicate that Oriakhi is interested in Duke, so I can't imagine how he'd know we were getting him.

[Devil's Advocate]

I thought of Zeigler, too, but I guess I wasn't convinced that he was getting a free pass on waiting a year due to transfer, so I assumed Oriakhi. It seems a hardship allowance for the firing of a coach isn't very common. I know it's his dad and all, but we're dealing with the NCAA and some historically confusing decisions. Probably right. I suppose it probably is Zeigler, but that's a lot of guards again next year with the loss of one and addition of two, if my math is correct.

[CDu]

I thought of Zeigler, too, but I guess I wasn't convinced that he was getting a free pass on waiting a year due to transfer, so I assumed Oriakhi. It seems a hardship allowance for the firing of a coach isn't very common. I know it's his dad and all, but we're dealing with the NCAA and some historically confusing decisions. Probably right. I suppose it probably is Zeigler, but that's a lot of guards again next year with the loss of one and addition of two, if my math is correct.

I'm guessing that Rivers probably doesn't know the specifics on the NCAA hardship waiver either. And I'm guessing he probably was jumping the gun on Zeigler's availability. I'd see a misunderstanding of the NCAA rules regarding a player who he's probably talked to and who has visited (Zeigler) as more likely than knowing another player who he probably hasn't talked to and hasn't visited (Oriakhi) is coming.

And I'd see Zeigler as a SF, not a guard. His skill set is very different from what we had this past year.

[Devil's Advocate]

And I'd see Zeigler as a SF, not a guard. His skill set is very different from what we had this past year.[/QUOTE]

That would be a very nice and welcomed addition.

[CDu]

That would be a very nice and welcomed addition.

Yes, assuming we aren't getting Muhammad (I'd say that's a reasonable guess), getting Zeigler would be a very nice "consolation prize." A junior with similar size and physicality (if not similar skill and explosiveness) who has already shown the ability to be a 15+ ppg scorer at the D-1 level should always be a welcome addition. The question about eligibility remains (and of course the question of whether or not we're actually getting him).

If Zeigler comes to Duke and is eligible next year, I have no doubt that he starts at SF.

[Cameron]

"Dude," those are two of the greatest college basketball players of all time.

My point was about style. Folks seem obsessed with the idea that we need a "low post banger" to win titles. It just has not been true for Duke historically, nor does it have to be true in the future.

Even Carlos Boozer was predominately more of a face-up styled big for the 2001 national championship team. He was, IMO, even smoother and more productive from 10 to 15 feet than he was banging underneath the rim. That's not to say that Boozer wasn't a top-notch talent who could rebound and score deep in the paint at will when called upon, because he was certainly versatile and possessed an array of moves in the post.

[CDu]

Even Carlos Boozer was predominately more of a face-up styled big for the 2001 national championship team. He was, IMO, even smoother and more productive from 10 to 15 feet than he was banging underneath the rim. That's not to say that Boozer wasn't a top-notch talent who could rebound and score deep in the paint at will when called upon, because he was certainly versatile and possessed an array of moves in the post.

I'd say Boozer was about half and half. He certainly posted up. But you're absolutely right that he liked to turn and face from 10-15 feet (which is now where he makes his living in the NBA). But I think it's fair to call Boozer and Williams back-to-the-basket players. They did it as much as any college star does (because most college stars also show a face-up game too). Brand was the most back-to-the-basket-centric, but even he had shooting touch.

[wk2109]

Rivers was interviewed on the radio this morning with Mike and Mike. During the interview he was basically asked if there should be any concern over the cupboard being bare at Duke (or, at least not optimally filled), to which he replied, no. What was a little more intriguing to me was that in addition to praising a few of the remaining and returning players, as well as the red shirt freshman, he said, to paraphrase - we have a transfer coming, too. He said it as if it were a done deal. Did I understand that correctly? Did he tip his hand that Oriakhi is on his way? Anyone else hear that?

Kyrie also had a similar 'slip' after he declared when he said a recruit (I believe it was DeAndre Daniels) was coming to Duke. That ended up not being true of course, so I dunno how much stock we can put into Austin's statement.

[Bluealum]

Yes, assuming we aren't getting Muhammad (I'd say that's a reasonable guess), getting Zeigler would be a very nice "consolation prize." A junior with similar size and physicality (if not similar skill and explosiveness) who has already shown the ability to be a 15+ ppg scorer at the D-1 level should always be a welcome addition. The question about eligibility remains (and of course the question of whether or not we're actually getting him).

If Zeigler comes to Duke and is eligible next year, I have no doubt that he starts at SF.

Really? With Tyler, Seth, Quinn, Andre, Alex, and Mike all experienced in Duke's system and demanding minutes and vying for starting roles in the 1-3 spots? Wow he must be better than I am expecting.

Many have argued that it will be tough to keep Tyler and Seth out of the starting lineup. Many others (myself included) feel we would be best with Quinn (with better health and lateral quickness) playing the point along with Seth/Andre, but this still leaves Tyler and Seth/Andre (a coach fav, and a pair of seniors) with minutes in demand. This does not get into Alex and Mike who had as good a high school rep as Trey did, who are taller and know the system a little better, vying for minutes at SF. We will also have a very impressive frosh in Sulaimon joining us who many have suggested will be pushing for a starting role, or heavy minutes at the least. All this and Trey is a shoe in as starter?

Frankly with all the guards we have I am not sure why we want a transfer here for next year. If he comes I think it would actually help our chemistry if he were only eligible the following year when Seth and Andre have graduated, as we will still be filled with guys who can play also in the mix.

If he is good enough to push all but two of the above out of a starting role than he is better than I thought, which is great. I also wonder, like others, how all these veterans can remain happy chewing minutes on the bench as we employ an 8 man rotation once the games become meaningful at the end of the year.

[CDu]

Really? With Tyler, Seth, Quinn, Andre, Alex, and Mike all experienced in Duke's system and demanding minutes and vying for starting roles in the 1-3 spots? Wow he must be better than I am expecting.

Many have argued that it will be tough to keep Tyler and Seth out of the starting lineup. Many others (myself included) feel we would be best with Quinn (with better health and lateral quickness) playing the point along with Seth/Andre, but this still leaves Tyler and Seth/Andre (a coach fav, and a pair of seniors) with minutes in demand. This does not get into Alex and Mike who had as good a high school rep as Trey did, who are taller and know the system a little better, vying for minutes at SF. We will also have a very impressive frosh in Sulaimon joining us who many have suggested will be pushing for a starting role, or heavy minutes at the least. All this and Trey is a shoe in as starter?

Frankly with all the guards we have I am not sure why we want a transfer here for next year. If he comes I think it would actually help our chemistry if he were only eligible the following year when Seth and Andre have graduated, as we will still be filled with guys who can play also in the mix.

If he is good enough to push all but two of the above out of a starting role than he is better than I thought, which is great. I also wonder, like others, how all these veterans can remain happy chewing minutes on the bench as we employ an 8 man rotation once the games become meaningful at the end of the year.

I think Coach K saw the weaknesses in the perimeter this year. As such, I don't think we'll see much of the 3 little-guard combos next year. As such, the remaining options at the 3 are Dawkins (who found his way to the doghouse last year), Gbinije (who hardly played), and Murphy (who redshirted and may see time at PF).

I'll amend my statement and say that I have little doubt that either Zeigler or Murphy would start at SF next year if Zeigler is eligible. Zeigler is a year older than Gbinije and has two years of college basketball experience. He was a similarly rated player to Gbinije coming out of high school. Considering how little Gbinije played last year, I would expect a junior to be ready to play ahead of him. And with Curry, Kelly, and Sulaimon all possibly in the mix as shooters, it's not clear that Dawkins is a need as a starter unless he improves defensively.

I'm not saying Zeigler is a world beater. He's not. He's just a big, rugged player, strong rebounder and defender on the wing, and a veteran player who has proven he can score. That's something we haven't had at the wing the past couple of years, and I think it's something Coach K wants to employ as soon as possible.

[_Gary]

I think Coach K saw the weaknesses in the perimeter this year. As such, I don't think we'll see much of the 3 little-guard combos next year. As such, the remaining options at the 3 are Dawkins (who found his way to the doghouse last year), Gbinije (who hardly played), and Murphy (who redshirted and may see time at PF).

I'll amend my statement and say that I have little doubt that either Zeigler or Murphy would start at SF next year if Zeigler is eligible.

Of course this assumes we don't land Shabazz, because if that happens he's starting at the 3 for sure, unless we felt he could handle the 4 (and I'm not too sure about that).

Sure, it would be one more wing we'd add to the roster, but what a nice problem to have. :D

Having said that, I'm not counting on us nabbing him, so your scenario is probably correct: Either Zeigler or Murphy at the 3, unless Dawkins makes huge strides over the summer.

Oh, and one more thing. I'm with you on the small guard lineup we were somewhat forced to employ last year. I don't think Coach K was sold on it, and I believe he'd like to see that change this coming season. But if Mason goes, and we don't land Parker, I'm thinking we'll be forced into a smaller 1-3 (PG, SG, SF) lineup again.

[CDu]

Of course this assumes we don't land Shabazz, because if that happens he's starting at the 3 for sure, unless we felt he could handle the 4 (and I'm not too sure about that).

Sure, it would be one more wing we'd add to the roster, but what a nice problem to have. :D

Having said that, I'm not counting on us nabbing him, so your scenario is probably correct: Either Zeigler or Murphy at the 3, unless Dawkins makes huge strides over the summer.

Oh, and one more thing. I'm with you on the small guard lineup we were somewhat forced to employ last year. I don't think Coach K was sold on it, and I believe he'd like to see that change this coming season. But if Mason goes, and we don't land Parker, I'm thinking we'll be forced into a smaller 1-3 (PG, SG, SF) lineup again.

Agreed on all counts. I will add that I don't think it's a coincidence that we're recruiting Zeigler and that we're looking at guys like Outlaw and other 6'5"-6'6" wings in the next couple of years. I think Coach K went with the small lineup because he had to do so - not because he wanted to do so.

[FerryFor50]

Agreed on all counts. I will add that I don't think it's a coincidence that we're recruiting Zeigler and that we're looking at guys like Outlaw and other 6'5"-6'6" wings in the next couple of years. I think Coach K went with the small lineup because he had to do so - not because he wanted to do so.

I think he's been trying for those types of players all along but they just keep going to other schools. It happens.

I also think that he was focusing on a PG, so maybe put more energy into that the past couple of years.

[Kedsy]

He's just a big, rugged player, strong rebounder and defender on the wing, and a veteran player who has proven he can score. That's something we haven't had at the wing the past couple of years, and I think it's something Coach K wants to employ as soon as possible.

Well, this past season may have seemed like a couple of years, but in 2011 we had Kyle Singler.

[CDu]

I think he's been trying for those types of players all along but they just keep going to other schools. It happens.

I also think that he was focusing on a PG, so maybe put more energy into that the past couple of years.

Perhaps you're right. It seems though that we're expanding the search on the wings past just the top-tier guys though. Obviously we'll still try to get the Muhammad's of the world, but we're also going into the slightly lower reaches of the rankings for SF. And I agree on PG. In the past two classes we've added Thornton, Irving, and Cook as PG and Rivers as a lead guard. But we've also added Gbinije and Murphy and are looking at Zeigler, Muhammad, Outlaw, Jabari Parker, Wainright, Wiggins, and Pinson (all 6'5"-6'7" SF prospects ranging from top of the class to solid, 4-star guys).

[CDu]

Well, this past season may have seemed like a couple of years, but in 2011 we had Kyle Singler.

You're right. My bad. Total brain spasm there.

[FerryFor50]

Perhaps you're right. It seems though that we're expanding the search on the wings past just the top-tier guys though. Obviously we'll still try to get the Muhammad's of the world, but we're also going into the slightly lower reaches of the rankings for SF. And I agree on PG. In the past two classes we've added Thornton, Irving, and Cook as PG and Rivers as a lead guard. But we've also added Gbinije and Murphy and are looking at Zeigler, Muhammad, Outlaw, Jabari Parker, Wainright, Wiggins, and Pinson (all 6'5"-6'7" SF prospects ranging from top of the class to solid, 4-star guys).

All I know is, K knows what he is doing. So I trust how he's been recruiting, even if only having one signee so far makes me a little nervous.

[Bluealum]

I think he's been trying for those types of players all along but they just keep going to other schools. It happens.

I also think that he was focusing on a PG, so maybe put more energy into that the past couple of years.

But if what both you and CDu are saying is the bottom line, (and I agree we want more of those players) help me understand why in the heck we did not use the one player that we had last year like that??? He was highly regarded (#28 RSCI) and still did not get meaningful minutes even after Kelly went down. We played (Quinn, Seth, Andre, Tyler) all shortish guards along with Austin and left him on the bench. Perhaps he was that bad in practice...but it's hard to believe this.

The easier explanation is that the other guys were more experienced and pretty effective and K played what he thought was the 5 best players at any given time, regardless of height and ultimate potential, who were most familiar with the system.

If experience and system knowledge matter more than ultimate capability and physical attributes, in all but the most extreme of talents (Kyrie/Austin), then that explains last year and it suggests that TZ or any other newcomer will have some of the same hurdles to securing playing time, right?

[CDu]

But if what both you and CDu are saying is the bottom line, (and I agree we want more of those players) help me understand why in the heck we did not use the one player that we had last year like that??? He was highly regarded (#28 RSCI) and still did not get meaningful minutes even after Kelly went down. We played (Quinn, Seth, Andre, Tyler) all shortish guards along with Austin and left him on the bench. Perhaps he was that bad in practice...but it's hard to believe this.

I think that recruiting rankings aren't the be-all end-all. Gbinije was definitely an afterthought in last year's McDonald's game. It's very reasonable to think that he was just not ready. The Kelly injury is irrelevant. Kelly played PF and we had 3 other big men to turn to in place of Gbinije. If Rivers or Dawkins got hurt, that argument would apply. But I think lack of readiness played a big part.


The easier explanation is that the other guys were more experienced and pretty effective and K played what he thought was the 5 best players at any given time, regardless of height and ultimate potential, who were most familiar with the system.

That's a possible explanation. But it doesn't explain why Rivers and Cook (both freshmen as well, and in Cook's case a similarly-rated player) logged starts and saw at least regular PT.


If experience and system knowledge matter more than ultimate capability and physical attributes, in all but the most extreme of talents (Kyrie/Austin), then that explains last year and it suggests that TZ or any other newcomer will have some of the same hurdles to securing playing time, right?

It will be a hurdle. It is not a hurdle can't be overcome, nor is it one that isn't regularly overcome. Coach K has regularly started elite freshmen (for reference, take a look back through the RSCI and see how many of the RSCI top-10 recruits we've had that didn't start 20+ games as a freshman). Now think of Zeigler as a top 10-15 freshman rather than the top-30 recruit he was out of high school (by virtue of having two years of physical maturity and college basketball experience). You see why I think he'd be a very likely start next year.

[dcar1985]

I think that recruiting rankings aren't the be-all end-all. Gbinije was definitely an afterthought in last year's McDonald's game. It's very reasonable to think that he was just not ready. The Kelly injury is irrelevant. Kelly played PF and we had 3 other big men to turn to in place of Gbinije. If Rivers or Dawkins got hurt, that argument would apply. But I think lack of readiness played a big part.



That's a possible explanation. But it doesn't explain why Rivers and Cook (both freshmen as well, and in Cook's case a similarly-rated player) logged starts and saw at least regular PT.



It will be a hurdle. It is not a hurdle can't be overcome, nor is it one that isn't regularly overcome. Coach K has regularly started elite freshmen (for reference, take a look back through the RSCI and see how many of the RSCI top-10 recruits we've had that didn't start 20+ games as a freshman). Now think of Zeigler as a top 10-15 freshman rather than the top-30 recruit he was out of high school (by virtue of having two years of physical maturity and college basketball experience). You see why I think he'd be a very likely start next year.


Not true at all....Mike was a 5th years senior which is why he wasn't a McDonalds AA....same with Quincy Miller, same as Alex if he had not came back to his original class, Dre also....none of them had the possibility of being McDonalds boys...

[CDu]

Not true at all....Mike was a 5th years senior which is why he wasn't a McDonalds AA....same with Quincy Miller, same as Alex if he had not came back to his original class, Dre also....none of them had the possibility of being McDonalds boys...

My mistake. He was an afterthought in the Jordan Classic (against a bunch of the same guys who played in the McDonald's game), not the McDonald's game. Same point, different all-star game.

[dcar1985]

My mistake. He was an afterthought in the Jordan Classic (against a bunch of the same guys who played in the McDonald's game), not the McDonald's game. Same point, different all-star game.

I thought you meant afterthought as far as being selected to participate in the game, my mistake....even still, 10 pts in 16 mins in comparisons to some of the other top players.

MKG 12 pts in 28 mins

Austin 16 pts in 31 mins

PJ Hairston 7 pts in 16 mins

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 4 pts in 15 mins

Kyle Wiltjer 8 pts in 18 mins

I wouldn't say he was an afterthought at all....

[CDu]

I thought you meant afterthought as far as being selected to participate in the game, my mistake....even still, 10 pts in 16 mins in comparisons to some of the other top players.

MKG 12 pts in 28 mins

Austin 16 pts in 31 mins

PJ Hairston 7 pts in 16 mins

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 4 pts in 15 mins

Kyle Wiltjer 8 pts in 18 mins

I wouldn't say he was an afterthought at all....

Stats aren't the best way to look at it, because these games are such messes that there are a ton of free buckets to be had in transition. If you watched that game, Gbinije was an afterthought. It was a lot of McAdoo, Davis, Wroten, Rivers (who shot really poorly but looked very good with the ball in his hands), and Beal. Kidd-Gilchrist was definitely quieter, but he was more of a presence. In looking back at the box score, MKG didn't score much, but he was 5-8 from the field (Gbinije was 4-12) and missed 6 FT and added 7 rebounds (Gbinije 2) and 2 steals.

I'm not sure why you mention Caldwell-Pope, Wiltjer, and Hairston as "other top players", as those guys were all either afterthoughts or mediocre players on bad teams this year.

[MCFinARL]

So, just to get back to Alex Oriakhi, has there been any indication that he would, in fact, be interested in transferring to Duke? So far I've seen it reported that Duke (along with other schools) would probably be getting in touch with him, and that he would not consider Duke--always according to "sources." Does anyone know whether either of these reports is accurate?

[dcar1985]

Stats aren't the best way to look at it, because these games are such messes that there are a ton of free buckets to be had in transition. If you watched that game, Gbinije was an afterthought. It was a lot of McAdoo, Davis, Wroten, Rivers (who shot really poorly but looked very good with the ball in his hands), and Beal. Kidd-Gilchrist was definitely quieter, but he was more of a presence. In looking back at the box score, MKG didn't score much, but he was 5-8 from the field (Gbinije was 4-12) and missed 6 FT and added 7 rebounds (Gbinije 2) and 2 steals.

I'm not sure why you mention Caldwell-Pope, Wiltjer, and Hairston as "other top players", as those guys were all either afterthoughts or mediocre players on bad teams this year.

They also played double his minutes....an All Star game isn't the best way to look at anything IMO tho....I mentioned those guys cause they were either similarly ranked or ranked above Mike...if you wanna look at pure stats though, for the limited minutes he played his stats weren't bad, he shot over 50% from the field, and 40% from 3....Mike clearly didn't know the system this year, its not an issue of talent

[CDu]

So, just to get back to Alex Oriakhi, has there been any indication that he would, in fact, be interested in transferring to Duke? So far I've seen it reported that Duke (along with other schools) would probably be getting in touch with him, and that he would not consider Duke--always according to "sources." Does anyone know whether either of these reports is accurate?

I don't think there's been any information about him one way or the other. There haven't been any Duke visits by him and I haven't seen any actual quotes by him. I suspect he's going to wait to see where all the dominos fall with early entry and incoming freshmen before he makes any firm decisions.

[Big Pappa]

Zags is usually in the know.

Adam Zagoria ‏ @AdamZagoria
Former UConn forward Alex Oriakhi is considering visiting Carolina, Duke, Washington & Gonzaga, source tells @SNYtv

[Big Pappa]

Zags is usually in the know.

Adam Zagoria ‏ @AdamZagoria
Former UConn forward Alex Oriakhi is considering visiting Carolina, Duke, Washington & Gonzaga, source tells @SNYtv

Link: http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/31/oriakhi-mulling-visits/

[dukedoc]

Zags is usually in the know.

Adam Zagoria ‏ @AdamZagoria
Former UConn forward Alex Oriakhi is considering visiting Carolina, Duke, Washington & Gonzaga, source tells @SNYtv

That's an interesting list. I presume his decision (and our desire for him) will hinge a lot on what MP, AJ, and TP do. I'm glad there at least appears to be some interest in us from his end as it's always good to have options.

[MCFinARL]

That's an interesting list. I presume his decision (and our desire for him) will hinge a lot on what MP, AJ, and TP do. I'm glad there at least appears to be some interest in us from his end as it's always good to have options.

It IS an interesting list--especially since it includes four schools in two states--across the country from each other.

[heyman25]

All I know is, K knows what he is doing. So I trust how he's been recruiting, even if only having one signee so far makes me a little nervous.

He is not surrounding himself with best possible talent like he did in the decade of the Nineties.Supposedly he is casting a wider net, but the results have not really been that good.It could all change for the better on April 10 or 11.

[Kedsy]

He is not surrounding himself with best possible talent like he did in the decade of the Nineties.Supposedly he is casting a wider net, but the results have not really been that good.It could all change for the better on April 10 or 11.

Ah, the distorted lens of time. We landed Grant Hill in 1990, and the great Brand, Battier, Avery class in 1997, but from 1991 to 1996 our recruits' resumes were significantly less accomplished than they have been in the last six or seven years.

Since 2005 we have had four top 5 classes, and the other three have all been at least top 11. If those "results have not really been that good" what would you consider good?

[Mcluhan]

Ah, the distorted lens of time. We landed Grant Hill in 1990, and the great Brand, Battier, Avery class in 1997, but from 1991 to 1996 our recruits' resumes were significantly less accomplished than they have been in the last six or seven years.

Since 2005 we have had four top 5 classes, and the other three have all been at least top 11. If those "results have not really been that good" what would you consider good?

And we don't have the most players of any school in the NBA-- OH WAIT.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Terrance Ross is leaving Washington for the Draft. How will this effect Oriakhi's decision, if at all?

LINK:http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/01/washington-forward-terrence-ross-entering-the-nba-draft/

[jennja01]

Terrance Ross is leaving Washington for the Draft. How will this effect Oriakhi's decision, if at all?

LINK:http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/01/washington-forward-terrence-ross-entering-the-nba-draft/

Dont think this should effect his recruitment at all unless he is seriously considering Washington. Ross is a 2/3 and therefore doesnt affect Oriakhi's playing time. If anything, this might make Washington less attractive due to the loss of their most talented player.

[Tim1515]

I saw on another board that there is some thought McAdoo will return and they will add Oriakhi.

[UrinalCake]

I stumbled across this article that claims Virginia Tech is trying to get into the Oriakhi hunt. I can't really see him going there, but stranger things have happened.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-men/virginia-tech-interested-in-alex-oriakhi-wash-post

[FerryFor50]

I stumbled across this article that claims Virginia Tech is trying to get into the Oriakhi hunt. I can't really see him going there, but stranger things have happened.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-men/virginia-tech-interested-in-alex-oriakhi-wash-post

Certainly would have all the playing time he could handle there...

[superdave]

Certainly would have all the playing time he could handle there...

And at Unc. If I were Oriakhi, Unc would be my fallback unless a school with a shot at a title plus 30 minutes of playing time was a possibility.

[FerryFor50]

And at Unc. If I were Oriakhi, Unc would be my fallback unless a school with a shot at a title plus 30 minutes of playing time was a possibility.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHH... he might hear you....

[superdave]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHH... he might hear you....

That's fine. Shabazz will just have to dunk on him next year if that's what he thinks he wants.

Even with Oriakhi, the Unc train will be stuck in turnover gear without Marshall. I also think there's a decent chance McAdoo makes the jump to the NBA.

[FerryFor50]

That's fine. Shabazz will just have to dunk on him next year if that's what he thinks he wants.

Even with Oriakhi, the Unc train will be stuck in turnover gear without Marshall. I also think there's a decent chance McAdoo makes the jump to the NBA.

Yea but I want UNC to stink as badly as possible. Is that too much to ask?

[Channing]

Yea but I want UNC to stink as badly as possible. Is that too much to ask?

right ... need to reinforce the notion that a down Duke year = a first round exit. A down UNC year = barely making the NIT.

[tommy]

Dont think this should effect his recruitment at all unless he is seriously considering Washington. Ross is a 2/3 and therefore doesnt affect Oriakhi's playing time. If anything, this might make Washington less attractive due to the loss of their most talented player.

Make it their two most talented players, as Tony Wroten is going pro too. That team is not going to be very good next year. Oriakhi would sure get plenty of playing time, but it'll be on a pretty mediocre team a long, long way from home. Gotta be better options than that.

[HateCarolina]

Yea but I want UNC to stink as badly as possible. Is that too much to ask?

Best post I've seen in a long time. There bad years make all of our bad losses just sting a little less.

[Newton_14]

Yea but I want UNC to stink as badly as possible. Is that too much to ask?

If for no other reason than the joy of watching Ol Roy's meltdowns in the post game pressers! "I was telling my massage therapist just last night how..." well u get the picture..

[SuperTurkey]

If for no other reason than the joy of watching Ol Roy's meltdowns in the post game pressers! "I was telling my massage therapist just last night how..." well u get the picture..

There's no happy ending to that story.

[toughbuff1]

There's no happy ending to that story.

Ok that was pretty funny

[CameronBornAndBred]

He's meeting with Calipari. Interesting stuff here, including some other schools mentioned.


Amore mentions that, in addition to UNC, Duke, Kentucky and Missouri, Oriakhi is also talking to Kansas, Ohio State, Southern Cal, UCLA and NC State.
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/blogs/dog-house/Calipari-to-Meet-With-Oriakhi-Report-146265575.html

Here's a question...it's being reported that Oriakhi is going to be able to transfer without sitting out a year because UCONN can't play in the postseason next year....but that's not set in stone yet.

UConn, of course, did not take this punishment lying down: It filed a formal appeal with the NCAA before the March 26 deadline, as school president Susan Herbst argued that data from the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons shouldn't be used to assess the current group of players and their eligibility for the NCAA tournament. It now awaits a hearing in front of the NCAA's Committee on Academic Performance (CAP). No less than UConn's 2012-13 season is on the line.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7773945/offseason-storylines-college-basketball-college-basketball
IF by some slim chance that UCONN is given a reprieve, then Orkiakhi will have to sit a year because he is no longer under any special circumstances. That will be interesting, because all of these teams are going after him now because they want him on the court this season. I'm sure they would like him on the court next year, too, but he may not be interested in waiting that long. If he has to sit, he may go looking overseas until next year's draft, and it's hard to imagine him going back to UCONN since it seems he burned that bridge pretty well. (Plus they already released him.)

[Kedsy]

That will be interesting, because all of these teams are going after him now because they want him on the court this season. I'm sure they would like him on the court next year, too, but he may not be interested in waiting that long. If he has to sit, he may go looking overseas until next year's draft, and it's hard to imagine him going back to UCONN since it seems he burned that bridge pretty well. (Plus they already released him.)

When he announced he was transferring I read a quote from his father saying if UConn won the appeal he still wanted to transfer out and would sit the year (sorry, no longer have the link). He could change his mind, of course, but it sounded like he was prepared for the possibility he'd have to sit out a year.

[CameronBornAndBred]

When he announced he was transferring I read a quote from his father saying if UConn won the appeal he still wanted to transfer out and would sit the year (sorry, no longer have the link). He could change his mind, of course, but it sounded like he was prepared for the possibility he'd have to sit out a year.
Cool, thanks. Would it affect any of the schools pursuing him if they thought there was a real chance he could sit? I'm guessing no, but it's interesting to think about since he will only give any school one year.

[Kedsy]

Cool, thanks. Would it affect any of the schools pursuing him if they thought there was a real chance he could sit? I'm guessing no, but it's interesting to think about since he will only give any school one year.

Yeah, I agree with your guess. Seems any of the mentioned schools will have just as big a need for a big man the following year (especially Duke).

[fisheyes]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/us/connecticut-basketball-tournament-ban/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[FerryFor50]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/us/connecticut-basketball-tournament-ban/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Well to be fair, they couldn't really play in this year's tournament either...

[niveklaen]

"It is disturbing that our current players must pay a penalty for the academic performance of students no longer enrolled," University of Connecticut President Susan Herbst said in a statement. "No educator or parent purposefully punishes young people for the failings of others."

I agree with this quote from the UCONN official. The current student atheletes should not be punished by being forced to sit out. Instead, the University should have to forfeit the money it earned from participating in the NCAA tournament during the years that it failed its students as an academic institution.

[FerryFor50]

"It is disturbing that our current players must pay a penalty for the academic performance of students no longer enrolled," University of Connecticut President Susan Herbst said in a statement. "No educator or parent purposefully punishes young people for the failings of others."

I agree with this quote from the UCONN official. The current student atheletes should not be punished by being forced to sit out. Instead, the University should have to forfeit the money it earned from participating in the NCAA tournament during the years that it failed its students as an academic institution.

I disagree. If you don't penalize the program where it hurts most, then you just open the doors to allow this to happen year in and year out. Universities can afford fines... they can't afford the hit that not being able to play in postseason tournaments costs, both in revenue, stature and potential lost recruits.

[CameronBornAndBred]

"It is disturbing that our current players must pay a penalty for the academic performance of students no longer enrolled,"

Yes and no. Those students could have done better if they had a system in place to support them. Most schools are very good at this, Duke being among them. UCONN needs to shoulder the blame amongst their staff just as much or more so than the players. And the NCAA agrees. True, it sucks for the current players, but you can't let it slide.

Edit...adding to this...look at programs the NCAA penalizes for recruiting violations. Every year kids are kept out post-season play because of stupid things their coaches and players before them did. Same difference.

[UrinalCake]

The problem is that you're not providing any motivation for players to do their schoolwork. If they fail, there are no repercussions except what will happen to other players down the road.

[Kedsy]

The problem is that you're not providing any motivation for players to do their schoolwork. If they fail, there are no repercussions except what will happen to other players down the road.

That's why you have to motivate the institutions to make it happen.

[tommy]

"It is disturbing that our current players must pay a penalty for the academic performance of students no longer enrolled," University of Connecticut President Susan Herbst said in a statement. "No educator or parent purposefully punishes young people for the failings of others."

I agree with this quote from the UCONN official. The current student atheletes should not be punished by being forced to sit out. Instead, the University should have to forfeit the money it earned from participating in the NCAA tournament during the years that it failed its students as an academic institution.

I don't. These kids are sophisticated enough to know the kind of program they're signing up for. You want to make sure you're going somewhere that steers clear of ethical lines, that isn't going to get dinged like this, that cares about your education, don't go to UConn. You go there anyway, you run the risk of this happening, and you knew it.

[lotusland]

The program is being punished because the coaches and administrators did not do their jobs. The players are allowed to transfer and play immediatley so what is not fair?

[roywhite]

I don't. These kids are sophisticated enough to know the kind of program they're signing up for. You want to make sure you're going somewhere that steers clear of ethical lines, that isn't going to get dinged like this, that cares about your education, don't go to UConn. You go there anyway, you run the risk of this happening, and you knew it.

Agreed. Seems like a meaningful penalty based on a critical failure. Let the President squeal.

[SMO]

Well to be fair, they couldn't really play in this year's tournament either...

The NCAA kicked some arse and broke some hearts today.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

In the video at the top of this link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7779554/uconn-loses-final-appeal-play-2013-ncaa-tournament) I swear at the 30 second mark Andy nearly refers to UConn as a "franchise" and catches himself just in the moment.

I think this is the death knell for UConn. One Evil Empire is down...

[Newton_14]

Yes and no. Those students could have done better if they had a system in place to support them. Most schools are very good at this, Duke being among them. UCONN needs to shoulder the blame amongst their staff just as much or more so than the players. And the NCAA agrees. True, it sucks for the current players, but you can't let it slide.

Edit...adding to this...look at programs the NCAA penalizes for recruiting violations. Every year kids are kept out post-season play because of stupid things their coaches and players before them did. Same difference.

Agree and will add that the incoming recruits can choose to go to a school that will be allowed to play in the post season, and current players have the option of transferring and not having to sit out. I am fine with the punishment and find it appropriate. Vacating wins, and monetary fines have zero impact and serve no purpose at all.

[Mike Corey]

Oriakhi's father says his son will visit Duke, North C*rolina, K*ntucky and Missouri.

Linky (http://blog.ctnews.com/uconnbasketball/2012/04/04/oriakhi-will-visit-unc-duke-kentucky-missouri/).

[ACCBBallFan]

"Connecticut coach Jim Calhoun said Friday he has no problem with next season's only possible goal being the Big East regular-season title if the Huskies are banned from the postseason."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7783042/connecticut-huskies-jim-calhoun-eyes-big-east-regular-season-title-top-goal

also fron the link

"We've made mistakes," Calhoun said. "If they use the current data, then we'll be fully set to go for next year."

An NCAA committee is expected to meet on the matter sometime in the early summer to review whether the most recent four-year period would be used to determine the APR. Manuel contests the penalty phase was changed in October to include the postseason ban for the offense.

"We think that they'll look at the most recent data, and if they do, it could affect 20 schools," Calhoun said. "We're going forward to make sure this never happens again. At the same time, we've had two years of hard work to rectify this and we hope they use the most recent data."

(end of quote from the link)

Does anybody have a list of who the 20 schools are?

[-bdbd]

When he announced he was transferring I read a quote from his father saying if UConn won the appeal he still wanted to transfer out and would sit the year (sorry, no longer have the link). He could change his mind, of course, but it sounded like he was prepared for the possibility he'd have to sit out a year.

Did we ever resolve whether he'd be eligible in 2012-13? I am assuming NOT. Correct?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Did we ever resolve whether he'd be eligible in 2012-13? I am assuming NOT. Correct?
According to the NCAA, since UCONN can't play in the postseason, Oriakhi is eligible to play starting this season.

[ACCBBallFan]

According to the NCAA, since UCONN can't play in the postseason, Oriakhi is eligible to play starting this season.

That was my understanding too.

The reason why Alex is the only one affected is because there is also a criteria that only one year of eligibility remianing which is in direct conflict with an SEC requirement that transfer have to have 2 or more years remaining.

As would be expected when Calhoun chased a few scholarhsip offers away (they probably stopped attending class to stick it to him and it worked) plus had some leave early or transfer, Alex was the only junior.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/roster/_/id/41/sort/experience

So guys like Napier, Drummond, Lamb, Boatright, Daniels etc would have to sit if they transfer rather than go pro. Else no BE Tourney and no NCAAT. According to the link, Calhoun's namesake still intends to enroll at UCONN.

[MaxAMillion]

Is there a reason why Oriakhi was not recruited by Duke out of high school? He has the body type that I wish Duke would go after every year.

[BD80]

... Calhoun's namesake still intends to enroll at UCONN.

I hope he likes to shoot, there should be plenty of shots available.

[ACCBBallFan]

"Connecticut coach Jim Calhoun said Friday he has no problem with next season's only possible goal being the Big East regular-season title if the Huskies are banned from the postseason."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7783042/connecticut-huskies-jim-calhoun-eyes-big-east-regular-season-title-top-goal

also fron the link

"We've made mistakes," Calhoun said. "If they use the current data, then we'll be fully set to go for next year."

An NCAA committee is expected to meet on the matter sometime in the early summer to review whether the most recent four-year period would be used to determine the APR. Manuel contests the penalty phase was changed in October to include the postseason ban for the offense.

"We think that they'll look at the most recent data, and if they do, it could affect 20 schools," Calhoun said. "We're going forward to make sure this never happens again. At the same time, we've had two years of hard work to rectify this and we hope they use the most recent data."

(end of quote from the link)

Does anybody have a list of who the 20 schools are?

I am reading the data correctly, I think I can answer my own question and the only other major conference school is Arkansas.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/newmedia/public/rates/index5.html

So my interpretation si the 20 schools in potential danger unless they get a waiver or unless NCAA facotrs in more recent performance are:

Alabama State University
Binghamton University
California State University, Bakersfield
California State University, Northridge
Chicago State University
Coppin State University
Florida A&M University
Grambling State University
Kennesaw State University
Mississippi Valley State University
Morgan State University
Norfolk State University
Southern University, Baton Rouge
Southern Utah University
University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
University of Arkansas, Pine Bluff
University of California, Riverside
University of Connecticut
University of Louisiana at Monroe
University of Toledo

Frank Haith and Missouri would have hoped Norfolk State had been ineligible last season.

I have not looked up all their conferences but looks like MEAC, SWAC and Big West will have a lot less entirees on whose champ gets to play in the Dayton play in game for 16 seeds.

[mgtr]

I am on record of favoring actual learning at institutions of higher education, so I am happy when the hammer falls. Realistically, the only way to bring some schools into line is to punish the administration (ie, the president). Now the NCAA already requires that the administration have active oversight of the athletics program, but that is many time a nod and a wink. By banning a team from the possibility of the tournament, the NCAA brings the wrath of the alumni and the Board down upon the president. In turn, the faculty gets excited about all the negativity, again putting pressure on the president.
My guess is that if the NCAA follows through with this plan (and maybe even toughens it) for a few years, it will have the desired effect.

[superdave]

So Mason is returning. I assume this means Tony Parker will look elsewhere, although he could snap up 20+ minutes a game since Miles' averaged 28. I assume this also means Oriakhi will look elsewhere.

Duke will have Mason and Ryan likely averaging 30+ minutes each at the 4 and 5 next year and will have Marshall picking up the remaining minutes at the 5 and Josh and Alex at the 4.

Are we definitely out with Oriakhi? Does he even come for his visit now?

[lotusland]

So Mason is returning. I assume this means Tony Parker will look elsewhere, although he could snap up 20+ minutes a game since Miles' averaged 28. I assume this also means Oriakhi will look elsewhere.

Duke will have Mason and Ryan likely averaging 30+ minutes each at the 4 and 5 next year and will have Marshall picking up the remaining minutes at the 5 and Josh and Alex at the 4.


Are we definitely out with Oriakhi? Does he even come for his visit now? I would think so. I think we are set at 4 and 5 for next year. As much as I hate to say it Carolina is a much better fit for him now. I'd much rather have Parker here getting some experience for the following year when Mason and Ryan are both gone.

[superdave]

I would think so. I think we are set at 4 and 5 for next year. As much as I hate to say it Carolina is a much better fit for him now. I'd much rather have Parker here getting some experience for the following year when Mason and Ryan are both gone.

Oriakhi to Unc makes good sense for both. It keeps Unc from dropping below third or fourth in conference and having to rely heavily on Desmond Hubert. It gives Oriakhi 25-30 minutes a game at a big time school, even though the uniforms are ugly, the fans obnoxious and the coach squats in a strange manner and hates Haiti. Tradeoffs I suppose.

If Oriakhi gives them half what Zeller did - 8 points, 5 boards in 25 minutes - he'll be a good pickup. He averaged 6.7 and 4.8 last season, as his minutes dropped. In their title season he averaged 9.6 and 8.7 though so you know he's capable of good things. Here's hoping he goes to Mizzou.

[Greg_Newton]

I'm praying Noel goes somewhere besides UK at this point, because it would really open the door for Oriakhi there... which would mean no Oriakhi at UNC. Which has become my primary off-season goal now that Mason has returned.:D

[Duvall]

Oriakhi cuts Duke. (https://twitter.com/#!/GoodmanCBS/status/189813854904135682)

Neither surprising nor regrettable.

[CameronCrazy06]

Duvall beat me to it. Can't say I'm too upset, though. Thankfully we got Mason back so we don't have a huge front-court need anymore.

[BD80]

Oriakhi cuts Duke. (https://twitter.com/#!/GoodmanCBS/status/189813854904135682)

Neither surprising nor regrettable.

I much prefer Mason to Oriaki

[Indoor66]

I much prefer Mason to Oriaki

Me too. The very thought of a transfer from Ucon leaves an extremely bad taste in my mouth.

[dukelifer]

Is there a reason why Oriakhi was not recruited by Duke out of high school? He has the body type that I wish Duke would go after every year.

According to the Scout report- he committed to UConn before his sophomore year in high school. Sounds like he knew where he was going.

[Troublemaker]

I didn't really want Duke to have to deal with his dad anyway:

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2012/4/6/2930158/alex-oriakhis-father-calls-for-jim-calhoun-to-be-fired

[ScheyersonFire2010]

I didn't really want Duke to have to deal with his dad anyway:

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2012/4/6/2930158/alex-oriakhis-father-calls-for-jim-calhoun-to-be-fired

Ditto!! I could see him being another dad like Chris Humphries who thought he was going to demand playing time for his child, but maybe even worse. Were far better off with the big Mase at the 5 IMO.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Good move for Mason.

If Duke puts more emphasis on getting him the ball in low post scoring position, which I think they will next season, he can reach 1st team All-ACC and improve his draft potential to mid first round.

[OZ]

I didn't really want Duke to have to deal with his dad anyway:

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2012/4/6/2930158/alex-oriakhis-father-calls-for-jim-calhoun-to-be-fired


Maybe he will go to unc where old Roy has had a lot of success working with these kind of parents.... the second coming of Larry Drew II?

[MCFinARL]

Apparently Calipari was talking to Oriakhi a lot recently, but I have to think Noel choosing Kentucky ("shock the world" notwithstanding) might get Kentucky knocked off Alex's list almost as fast as Duke was knocked off. For better or worse, UNC might make some sense for him.

[Greg_Newton]

Apparently Calipari was talking to Oriakhi a lot recently, but I have to think Noel choosing Kentucky ("shock the world" notwithstanding) might get Kentucky knocked off Alex's list almost as fast as Duke was knocked off. For better or worse, UNC might make some sense for him.

I know - man, I'm pissed Noel picked UK. All the talk today was about Georgetown, which was probably intentional on his part.

UNC seems like they'll get Oriakhi by default now, unless The Great Frank Haith can lure him to Mizzou.

If UNC lucks into a Sr. Oriakhi-So. McAdoo frontcourt next season, it will make me mildly sick.

[devildeac]

I know - man, I'm pissed Noel picked UK. All the talk today was about Georgetown, which was probably intentional on his part.

UNC seems like they'll get Oriakhi by default now, unless The Great Frank Haith can lure him to Mizzou.

If UNC lucks into a Sr. Oriakhi-So. McAdoo frontcourt next season, it will make me mildly sick.

Well, if unc gets Oriakhi, they get his "attitude" and his father with him and we see how that worked out with the Wears and LDII;).

[BlueDevilBrowns]

I know - man, I'm pissed Noel picked UK. All the talk today was about Georgetown, which was probably intentional on his part.

UNC seems like they'll get Oriakhi by default now, unless The Great Frank Haith can lure him to Mizzou.

If UNC lucks into a Sr. Oriakhi-So. McAdoo frontcourt next season, it will make me mildly sick.

It won't matter who is in their frontcourt if they don't have a PG to get them the ball. Don't forget in 2010 they had Henson, Davis, and Zeller but we all remember how that turned out!

[dcar1985]

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS

UConn transfer Alex Oriakhi just told CBSSports he is headed to Missouri. Story coming soon.

[dukedoc]

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS

UConn transfer Alex Oriakhi just told CBSSports he is headed to Missouri. Story coming soon.


Sorry to Roy. Good for Alex.

[Greg_Newton]

Jeff Goodman ‏ @GoodmanCBS

UConn transfer Alex Oriakhi just told CBSSports he is headed to Missouri. Story coming soon.

Woohoooo!

I was more nervous about this than Bazz's announcement. Joell James has some solid potential, but he better be ready to step big-time from day 1 next season for the fellas down the road.

Big news, IMO.

[CDu]

Woohoooo!

I was more nervous about this than Bazz's announcement. Joell James has some solid potential, but he better be ready to step big-time from day 1 next season for the fellas down the road.

Big news, IMO.

We now have a serious advantage at the C spot with Mason versus James/Hubert. And I think we have an edge at PF too with Kelly against McAdoo (Kelly is bigger and more skilled, McAdoo is more athletic).

[gumbomoop]

We now have a serious advantage at the C spot with Mason versus James/Hubert. And I think we have an edge at PF too with Kelly against McAdoo (Kelly is bigger and more skilled, McAdoo is more athletic).

In the end, many, many threads reduce to Jderf's Law:


As a DBR discussion grow's longer, the probability of a debate between UNC and Duke's current teams/rosters approaches 1.

For example, this thread on Alex Oriakhi becomes, per Jderf's Law, a discussion about the only thing that really counts.

As to the substance of CDu's point, I'll add a friendly amendment. On paper, at least, Duke has substantially more experience, talent, and depth at the "bigs" in 2012-'13. Mason, Ryan, Josh have the experience. For Heels, only McAdoo. Depth: Mason, Ryan, Josh, Alex [some 4], Marshall v. McAdoo, Hubert, Johnson, James. Talent: McAdoo's good , but Mason and Ryan are also talented, capable of occasional star-games, especially as seniors. And while I'm willing to believe that either James or Johnson [I]might be a fine addition for the Heels, and Hubert might come on at least as a shot blocker, I [and plenty of you] think our 2 R-Fr guys will more than hold their own if and when matched with the Heels' inexperienced bigs.

[jimsumner]

We now have a serious advantage at the C spot with Mason versus James/Hubert. And I think we have an edge at PF too with Kelly against McAdoo (Kelly is bigger and more skilled, McAdoo is more athletic).

I like Ryan Kelly. But it's awfully optimistic to think that he's a better overall talent than McAdoo.

IMO.

[CDu]

I like Ryan Kelly. But it's awfully optimistic to think that he's a better overall talent than McAdoo.

IMO.

McAdoo is unquestionably the better athlete and pro prospect. But Kelly is a senior who has much more experience and has proven he can score in the halfcourt. McAdoo has proven he can finish on the break and get putbacks. But his next successful post move in college may actually be his first.

In 2-3 years, I have no doubt that McAdoo will be better than Kelly. But I don't think it is ridiculous to think Kelly will be better next year.

[jimsumner]

McAdoo is unquestionably the better athlete and pro prospect. But Kelly is a senior who has much more experience and has proven he can score in the halfcourt. McAdoo has proven he can finish on the break and get putbacks. But his next successful post move in college may actually be his first.

In 2-3 years, I have no doubt that McAdoo will be better than Kelly. But I don't think it is ridiculous to think Kelly will be better next year.

Didn't say it was ridiculous. Said it was optimistic. :)

Let me put it this way. I can see McAdoo making 1st-team All-ACC next season a lot easier than I can see Ryan Kelly making 1st-team All-ACC. Given the make-up of the 2013 UNC lineup, McAdoo could be the go-to guy, getting lots of touches and shots. He was a likely lottery pick in the 2012 draft and he made what I think was a rational decision to come back and enhance that into top-5 status.

I'm not trying to trash Kelly here. I can easily see him giving Duke 15 and 7 next season and making 3rd--maybe 2nd-team All-ACC. But I really expect McAdoo to be a load next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the ACC POY mix.

[CDu]

Didn't say it was ridiculous. Said it was optimistic. :)

Let me put it this way. I can see McAdoo making 1st-team All-ACC next season a lot easier than I can see Ryan Kelly making 1st-team All-ACC. Given the make-up of the 2013 UNC lineup, McAdoo could be the go-to guy, getting lots of touches and shots. He was a likely lottery pick in the 2012 draft and he made what I think was a rational decision to come back and enhance that into top-5 status.

I'm not trying to trash Kelly here. I can easily see him giving Duke 15 and 7 next season and making 3rd--maybe 2nd-team All-ACC. But I really expect McAdoo to be a load next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the ACC POY mix.

By virtue of the way UNC plays and by virtue of McAdoo being the only big guy with any meaningful experience, I'd expect him to get every opportunity to outproduce Kelly (who'll have a much more crowded scoring picture around him). However, don't confuse production with skill. McAdoo may put up better numbers than Kelly (I'd also not be surprised if he doesn't even despite the opportunity) but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the more skilled player next year. Production is a combination of ability and opportunity, and McAdoo will have the big edge in opportunity.

I'll be surprised if he's in the PoY mix next year. I'd say that Leslie, Brown, Plumlee, Johnson, Snaer, Green, and Stoglin (only if he buys into the team next year) are much more likely candidates. I would put the realistic ceiling for McAdoo next year at closer to sophomore year Ed Davis (13 pts, 8 rebs). I think he's just too raw offensively. Anything more than those averages and he's either greatly exceeding my expectations or the team is just forcefeeding him chances to the detriment of the team.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Thank you Alex Oriakhi for heading to Mizzou!!!

And does anyone else think Frank Haith has something going down there in Columbia? I think with this announcement, they could contend with Kentucky for the SEC crown next year. They are pretty stacked. Oriakhi will be eligible immediately, so will Jabari Brown who transferred from Oregon. He was a top 5 SG prospect last year. They'll also have Earnest Ross, the transfer from Auburn who was tearing it up before he left there. To go with them, they'll have back Phil Pressey, Michael Dixon, and Laurence Bowers. Nice little nucleus there. They also have a few Juco products coming in and are still in the running for Devonta Pollard. They could be REAL good.

[Kishiznit]

IMO Huck was only in this process to try and keep him away from us. It is my understanding that he was the only 1 of 4 finalists that did not personally meet with AO. Once Mason announced and AO removed us as an option, Huck was content. Maybe I'm just an arrogant DUKE fan but it appears at times Huck would rather try and keep kids away from us than have them enrolled. Almost like he's playing not to lose rather than planning to win. He (and the brand) still is a recruiting machine but this 1 is odd.

[TexHawk]

Thank you Alex Oriakhi for heading to Mizzou!!!

And does anyone else think Frank Haith has something going down there in Columbia? I think with this announcement, they could contend with Kentucky for the SEC crown next year. They are pretty stacked. Oriakhi will be eligible immediately, so will Jabari Brown who transferred from Oregon. He was a top 5 SG prospect last year. They'll also have Earnest Ross, the transfer from Auburn who was tearing it up before he left there. To go with them, they'll have back Phil Pressey, Michael Dixon, and Laurence Bowers. Nice little nucleus there. They also have a few Juco products coming in and are still in the running for Devonta Pollard. They could be REAL good.

a. Missouri has to replace over 45 ppg from Ratliffe/Denmon/English. I would be astonished if Oriakhi, Brown, and Ross are able to come close to that. While Oriakhi is a nice player, I am a bit surprised so many people are freaking out over him and his 6.8 pts and 4.8 boards. (Ratliffe basically doubled that.) All of that is needed just to replace/match their best team ever, who face-planted spectacularly in the tournament.
b. Denmon was their heart-and-soul, Ratliffe hardly ever missed shots, but losing English is the real killer. He created so many mismatches with his length and shooting ability. KU could not play Robinson and Withey on the court at the same time because of him.
c. One of the crazy subplots for them this year was losing Bowers. He was their 2nd leading scorer in '11. With him, they were a much more traditional team with two big guys and 3 guards, and they were very average. He's more of a plodder with a decent jumper. Without him, they were able to run all over the place, their offense was basically "4 out, 1 in" and let Pressey penetrate. It will be interesting to see how they play next year.

Of course, they will finish 2nd in the SEC, but that will be more by default than anything else.