Thought I'd Just Say, re: Coach K

[Aziggazoomba]

That (and this comes from a Carolina fan who maybe isn't your coach's biggest fan in the world) I was impressed by what I saw/heard from him following the Lehigh game. That made a very nice impression. Not what I was expecting, and not really what I wanted to see, to be honest, but very good to see, all the same.

Go Heels (and see ya next season).

[Misunderestimated]

That (and this comes from a Carolina fan who maybe isn't your coach's biggest fan in the world) I was impressed by what I saw/heard from him following the Lehigh game. That made a very nice impression. Not what I was expecting, and not really what I wanted to see, to be honest, but very good to see, all the same.

Go Heels (and see ya next season).

Just out of curiosity, what were you expecting? K to roll out of the locker room with a Bud Lite in his hand and start a profanity-laced rant?

[Aziggazoomba]

Just out of curiosity, what were you expecting? K to roll out of the locker room with a Bud Lite in his hand and start a profanity-laced rant?

No.

In that scenario I would have expected him to say all the typical things that coaches say after a profound disappointment. All the stuff that's in the script for that role.

Here, there was an element of real humanity in what he said, and more, in the way he said it. It struck me as especially nice, under the circumstances.

I didn't mean it as an insult, but obviously that's how it came across. Sorry for that.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Coach K is ALWAYS very gracious and complimentary of his opponents and opposing coaches, whether in victory (see Kentucky locker room, 1992) or defeat. He never, ever complains about them or denigrates them. Any expectations of different behavior are misguided and wrong.

[luvdahops]

Coach K is ALWAYS very gracious and complimentary of his opponents and opposing coaches, whether in victory (see Kentucky locker room, 1992) or defeat. He never, ever complains about them or denigrates them. Any expectations of different behavior are misguided and wrong.

In sharp contrast to a certain legendary UNC coach (and not the current one)

[weezie]

I've always enjoyed watching K reach out and touch the heart of an opposing player who has played well as they come through the post-game handshake line.
It is so cool and must be quite a moment for the player.

[Aziggazoomba]

Coach K is ALWAYS very gracious and complimentary of his opponents and opposing coaches, whether in victory (see Kentucky locker room, 1992) or defeat. He never, ever complains about them or denigrates them. Any expectations of different behavior are misguided and wrong.

I don't disagree, and didn't mean to say otherwise.

Again, here, I thought he put forth an ESPECIALLY GRACIOUS quality.

(Where I come from that's called a compliment.)

[dukedoc]

That (and this comes from a Carolina fan who maybe isn't your coach's biggest fan in the world) I was impressed by what I saw/heard from him following the Lehigh game. That made a very nice impression. Not what I was expecting, and not really what I wanted to see, to be honest, but very good to see, all the same.

Go Heels (and see ya next season).

I appreciate your comment. I think it's moments like those that have so heavily endeared Coach K to our fans. Any random coach can feign humility and seem likable after a victory. After you win, you feel good, you're confident, and things are well. It's easy to be generous and personable during that moment.

However, after you lose, particularly when it was wholly unexpected, and particularly disappointing and perhaps even embarrassing, that's when you really see what a man is made of. It's hard to feign the sort of equipoise Coach K demonstrated. He was undoubtedly very emotional and yet he was able to be truly genuine in front of the cameras. That's why we like him so much.

[RockyMtDevil]

I don't disagree, and didn't mean to say otherwise.

Again, here, I thought he put forth an ESPECIALLY GRACIOUS quality.

(Where I come from that's called a compliment.)

It's just that you wrapped your comment around "not what I was expecting"...Which is either a backhanded compliment or it comes from someone who has never experienced or seen K post game in oh, 30 years. The man is the most gracious and real person after a loss or win. He is the epitome of a grounded, comfortable in his own skin human being. Unlike Tom Crean in victory who had to slam two cbs commentators, instead of congratulating VCU, etc.. He looked like a complete fool. Not to mention pretty much blowing off Shaka Smart who was so classy in his postgame handshake.

[Rich]

It's just that you wrapped your comment around "not what I was expecting"...Which is either a backhanded compliment or it comes from someone who has never experienced or seen K post game in oh, 30 years. The man is the most gracious and real person after a loss or win. He is the epitome of a grounded, comfortable in his own skin human being. Unlike Tom Crean in victory who had to slam two cbs commentators, instead of congratulating VCU, etc.. He looked like a complete fool. Not to mention pretty much blowing off Shaka Smart who was so classy in his postgame handshake.

I sense a Dove commercial in the make. Why not, there's already one with Tom Izzo and another with Bobby Hurley. BTW, since we're complimenting coaches, Tom Izzo has become my second favorite after Coach K. He also seems very real and genuine and is great at what he does, particularly at Tourney time. Like Coach K, he's a real asset to the college game.

[MChambers]

I don't disagree, and didn't mean to say otherwise.

Again, here, I thought he put forth an ESPECIALLY GRACIOUS quality.

(Where I come from that's called a compliment.)
You meant it as a compliment, and I appreciate that. We Duke fans are used to Coach K doing things like this, but if you don't follow Coach K closely, I can see why you wouldn't expect it. Hope this explains why some here weren't sure you were trying give a compliment.

[rtnorthrup]

I thought his halftime interview was the most telling. He seemed truly perplexed that we were not playing well as if he had attempted to push all the buttons and nothing was working. I inferred from the halftime interview that he did not anticipate the game going the way it went.

[MCFinARL]

You meant it as a compliment, and I appreciate that. We Duke fans are used to Coach K doing things like this, but if you don't follow Coach K closely, I can see why you wouldn't expect it. Hope this explains why some here weren't sure you were trying give a compliment.

Ditto. Thanks for the kind words about Coach K. Frankly, given the level of media gushing over Coach K this year with the 903rd victory, I can see why non-Duke fans might be inclined (not to say eager) to look for flaws in the man wherever they could. So your willingness to see the real graciousness in this particular post-game statement rather than assume it was phony or hypocritical is all the more appreciated.

[DukieInKansas]

That (and this comes from a Carolina fan who maybe isn't your coach's biggest fan in the world) I was impressed by what I saw/heard from him following the Lehigh game. That made a very nice impression. Not what I was expecting, and not really what I wanted to see, to be honest, but very good to see, all the same.

Go Heels (and see ya next season).

Thank you. I'm glad you took the time to watch his post game comments. It gave you a chance to see what those of us that are fans see more regularly. Of course, I hope you never have the opportunity to see another post game interview after a loss but, since you most likely will as we are bound to lose a game at some point in the future, I hope you will make time to watch so you realize that this response is not unusual.


I'm really sorry about Marshall's injury. I don't like to see any player go out due to an injury.

[Billy Dat]

I thought his halftime interview was the most telling. He seemed truly perplexed that we were not playing well as if he had attempted to push all the buttons and nothing was working. I inferred from the halftime interview that he did not anticipate the game going the way it went.

First off, who else is with me that K needs to stop these NCAA halftime interviews immediately? I was shocked to see him do one during halftime of last year's Arizona game and again this year against Lehigh. We are 0-2 when he does these halftime interviews in the modern era. Since he gave up doing the interviews years ago, I can only assume that his recent willingness has to do with it being part of the NCAA contract. They are BRUTAL. When I heard him start using Kelly absence as an excuse, I knew we were done. Would K have ever admitted any possible weakness, in game, if he was used to doing halftime interviews? Heck no. He needs to put his foot down and never do them again.

[MCFinARL]

First off, who else is with me that K needs to stop these NCAA halftime interviews immediately? I was shocked to see him do one during halftime of last year's Arizona game and again this year against Lehigh. We are 0-2 when he does these halftime interviews in the modern era. Since he gave up doing the interviews years ago, I can only assume that his recent willingness has to do with it being part of the NCAA contract. They are BRUTAL. When I heard him start using Kelly absence as an excuse, I knew we were done. Would K have ever admitted any possible weakness, in game, if he was used to doing halftime interviews? Heck no. He needs to put his foot down and never do them again.

I'm pretty sure this is right--the head coaches have to make themselves available. I actually think, from a basketball perspective, it's a terrible requirement--the coaches should be focused elsewhere at halftime. That said, I'm not sure Coach K's doing a halftime interview is really a factor in these tournament losses. Among other things, apparently the length of halftime is extended so that coaches doing interviews can get adequate time with their teams.

[sagegrouse]

Not that K would behave any differently, but there are different expectations when the college coach is also the head coach of the national team. It does put postgame coimments in perspective, doesn't it?

sage

[OldSchool]

I'm pretty sure this is right--the head coaches have to make themselves available. I actually think, from a basketball perspective, it's a terrible requirement--the coaches should be focused elsewhere at halftime. That said, I'm not sure Coach K's doing a halftime interview is really a factor in these tournament losses. Among other things, apparently the length of halftime is extended so that coaches doing interviews can get adequate time with their teams.

I believe I've heard K say before that he is not a proponent of these half-time interviews. He's trying to compose in his mind what it is he wants to say to the team at half-time, but instead he is supposed to go out and chat up Erin Andrews for a while. Typically we send Collins out for that duty.

But for most coaches I'm sure they like it, as any kind of broadcast face time like that can help their image and recruits might be watching.

[Billy Dat]

That said, I'm not sure Coach K's doing a halftime interview is really a factor in these tournament losses. Among other things, apparently the length of halftime is extended so that coaches doing interviews can get adequate time with their teams.

I agree, I was hoping the sarcasm would bleed through my typing. I will say, though, that it freaked me out during last year's Arizona game and it freaked me out again against Lehigh. I don't remember K doing those interviews in Rounds 1 and 2 last year.

[MCFinARL]

I agree, I was hoping the sarcasm would bleed through my typing. I will say, though, that it freaked me out during last year's Arizona game and it freaked me out again against Lehigh. I don't remember K doing those interviews in Rounds 1 and 2 last year.

Sorry, I'm a little slow today. Agreed, though, it freaked me out on Friday as well. I don't remember it from the Arizona game, possibly because I have successfully blotted large stretches of that game from my memory (unfortunately, not all of it though).

[Newton_14]

No.

In that scenario I would have expected him to say all the typical things that coaches say after a profound disappointment. All the stuff that's in the script for that role.

Here, there was an element of real humanity in what he said, and more, in the way he said it. It struck me as especially nice, under the circumstances.

I didn't mean it as an insult, but obviously that's how it came across. Sorry for that.

Thanks for the thread, and I did not take your post as an insult. I do think the rivalry likely blinds your ability to see Coach K for who he really is. That is normal for all of us to be fair. Coach K is a very thoughtful and insightful person. It's too bad really, that the haters can't take the glasses off and see that. He is also one of the more witty people I have seen. He's not perfect and sometimes says things in the heat of the moment he wishes he could take back. He is fiercely loyal to his players, his family, his school, and his Country.

I thought his presser comments were great. He credited Lehigh, noted Duke was without Kelly but did not use that as an excuse, and took responsibility for the offense not working. K simply will not throw his players under the bus, which is awesome in my book.

I was even more impressed with Mason's comments. Not sure if you caught his or not. One reporter tried to bait him into blaming the guards for not getting him the ball enough. Mason hit that head on immediately with "NO, Not at all. Not getting the ball is on me. I did not work hard enough to get open. My teammates looked for me, and gave me the ball when I was open." He went on to comment about the guards being great players who were trying their best to make plays. The way Mason handled that question made me like him even more. Great kid.

[wsb3]

I appreciate your comment. I think it's moments like those that have so heavily endeared Coach K to our fans. Any random coach can feign humility and seem likable after a victory. After you win, you feel good, you're confident, and things are well. It's easy to be generous and personable during that moment.

However, after you lose, particularly when it was wholly unexpected, and particularly disappointing and perhaps even embarrassing, that's when you really see what a man is made of. It's hard to feign the sort of equipoise Coach K demonstrated. He was undoubtedly very emotional and yet he was able to be truly genuine in front of the cameras. That's why we like him so much.

People can like or dislike Coach K. That is their choice. I do believe the man is honest even when it might look better to the public to go another route.

2002 if memory serves correct he got on the Hoosier bus after the game to tell them how well they played and how tough they were defensively.

How many of us have heard from UNC fans how they hate him because he cusses? Really? You are going to hate anyway. Many of those fans seem shocked when you point out Dean smoked heavily. Also there were many times he was less than gracious after a loss. BC beating them in 94 comes to mind when he singled out a player in the press conference.

[throatybeard]

I may not know what I'm talking about here. But I feel like Krzyzewski's interview with Tracy Wolfson (?) was totally classy and all, but I sort of heard quite a bit of relief in his voice. Disappointment, yes, but also some relief in that--I'm trying to say this in a non-negative way--he's done having to deal with this exact group, because he feels like his modus operandi wasn't really working with them to the degree that he's used to. Remember that mid-season "I'm not gonna change" presser? He's still a USMA dude. He's used to his "cadets" jumping when he says jump. He did one of the better jobs in his career this year--it's getting sort of pointless to compare years on that count anymore, because he's done so many amazing one-year jobs.

I'm at a loss to explain why he looks like he feels like the Krzyzewski juju was at least partially lost on this group. Yeah, you've got several frosh, but really the main one who played much was Rivers. Otherwise, the main starring cast has been around, Dos Plumlees, Dawkins, Curry, TT...it's not like he had a whole new starring cast like Calipari often does. These people know his ways.

Obviously, if you talk to a lot of Duke fans, this has led to (IMO, rather ugly) scapegoating of Rivers, which I don't understand.

All in all, it sort of smelled to me like K is at least partly glad to have this year done with and is ready for the Olympic team and a fresh start with Duke next fall. I may be wrong and I bet if media asked him he'd refute the idea, for obvious reasons having to do with the way you have to deal with the media when you're in his position.

[sagegrouse]

All in all, it sort of smelled to me like K is at least partly glad to have this year done with and is ready for the Olympic team and a fresh start with Duke next fall. I may be wrong and I bet if media asked him he'd refute the idea, for obvious reasons having to do with the way you have to deal with the media when you're in his position.

I also thought from the beginning that there was a bit of a "wait-until-next-year" message in keeping potential stalwarts MP3 and Murphy in cold storage for the year. Of course, I waited until the end of the season to reveal my preseason analysis. :p:o

sage

[jv001]

I may not know what I'm talking about here. But I feel like Krzyzewski's interview with Tracy Wolfson (?) was totally classy and all, but I sort of heard quite a bit of relief in his voice. Disappointment, yes, but also some relief in that--I'm trying to say this in a non-negative way--he's done having to deal with this exact group, because he feels like his yourstill a USMA dude. He's used to his "cadets" jumping when he says jump. He did one of the better jobs in his career this year--it's getting sort of pointless to compare years on that count anymore, because he's done so many amazing one-year jobs.

I'm at a loss to explain why he looks like he feels like the Krzyzewski juju was at least partially lost on this group. Yeah, you've got several frosh, but really the main one who played much was Rivers. Otherwise, the main starring cast has been around, Dos Plumlees, Dawkins, Curry, TT...it's not like he had a whole new starring cast like Calipari often does. These people know his ways.

Obviously, if you talk to a lot of Duke fans, this has led to (IMO, rather ugly) scapegoating of Rivers, which I don't understand.

All in all, it sort of smelled to me like K is at least partly glad to have this year done with and is ready for the Olympic team and a fresh start with Duke next fall. I may be wrong and I bet if media asked him he'd refute the idea, for obvious reasons having to do with the way you have to deal with the media when you're in his position.

Your post pretty much says what I have been thinking about this year. In Coach's post game comments it seemed like a big load was taken off him. All year or pretty much all year, it seemed that something was wrong with this team. Attitudes of the players seemed a little off. Winning 27 games should have given Coach K the COY award, but as usual he was not the winner. If Mason returns, I have a feeling we'll see a completely different player. He might just be the leader we lacked this year. I know he doesn't seem to have the fire that's needed to be a leader, but I believe that deep inside that leadership quality exists. Next Play! GoDuke!

[DUKIE V(A)]

Your post pretty much says what I have been thinking about this year. In Coach's post game comments it seemed like a big load was taken off him. All year or pretty much all year, it seemed that something was wrong with this team. Attitudes of the players seemed a little off. Winning 27 games should have given Coach K the COY award, but as usual he was not the winner. If Mason returns, I have a feeling we'll see a completely different player. He might just be the leader we lacked this year. I know he doesn't seem to have the fire that's needed to be a leader, but I believe that deep inside that leadership quality exists. Next Play! GoDuke!

If true, I would be pretty disappointed. I can't imagine Coach K being relieved by being eliminated from the tournament. Also, he is likely to be coaching a very similar team next year (with more experience) so let's hope he is not too tired of trying to work with this group. Perhaps you and Throaty are projecting a bit.

[MCFinARL]

I also thought from the beginning that there was a bit of a "wait-until-next-year" message in keeping potential stalwarts MP3 and Murphy in cold storage for the year. Of course, I waited until the end of the season to reveal my preseason analysis. :p:o

sage

Always a good idea! I like to place my bets at the end of the game, as well--but so far, for some reason, I can't get anyone else to agree to this. ;)

[throatybeard]

If true, I would be pretty disappointed. I can't imagine Coach K being relieved by being eliminated from the tournament. Also, he is likely to be coaching a very similar team next year (with more experience) so let's hope he is not too tired of trying to work with this group. Perhaps you and Throaty are projecting a bit.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. Would he rather make a Final Four run? Of course. The guy is as competitive as John Elway or Allison Fisher or Michael Jordan. But sometimes, something you don't want to happen happens, and it feels like things sort of worked out OK anyway. So I dunno, for example, I didn't get a job at IU in 2006, and I was devastated becuase I thought I'd spend the rest of my natural life sweating to death in Mississippi, but that experience led to my getting my current job, and ya know what, I prefer living here to living in Bloomington, I think. In 2005, Duke lost to Michigan State in the S16. Sucked. You know what though? Beats losing to UK or UNC, the next two teams in our path. Again--I don't know. I'm saying he sounded like his feelings might be conflicted. Not glad to be eliminated ("the lows," as he described them), but a bit relieved to be moving onto the next challenge, as this team didn't take to his medicine as well as many in the past.

Also, Krzyzewski has always insisted that every team is a distinct entity. I've never quite understood this, as clearly 2006 blends into 2007, 2007 into 2008, et cetera, since the personnel overlap quite a bit. But with his emphasis on chemistry, Coach has always made it clear that he considered each "team" discrete from the others. So I think, given his public comments over the years, he would consider the 2012-13 squad a wholly different team front his one, irrespective of the degrees of roster overlap. Like I said, I'm a little baffled by the difficulties this year, because much of the roster were holdovers. But something was just a bit off. And I think part of him is OK with that and looking forward to his next two teams, US 2012 and Duke 2012-13.

[1999ballboy]

First off, who else is with me that K needs to stop these NCAA halftime interviews immediately? I was shocked to see him do one during halftime of last year's Arizona game and again this year against Lehigh. We are 0-2 when he does these halftime interviews in the modern era. Since he gave up doing the interviews years ago, I can only assume that his recent willingness has to do with it being part of the NCAA contract. They are BRUTAL. When I heard him start using Kelly absence as an excuse, I knew we were done. Would K have ever admitted any possible weakness, in game, if he was used to doing halftime interviews? Heck no. He needs to put his foot down and never do them again.
I agree that the halftime interviews need to stop. However, maybe he volunteered this time in order to save Chris Collins from having to answer questions about Illinois?

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Maybe, but he could have sent Wojo out.
Love, Ima

[gep]

I may not know what I'm talking about here. But I feel like Krzyzewski's interview with Tracy Wolfson (?) was totally classy and all, but I sort of heard quite a bit of relief in his voice. Disappointment, yes, but also some relief in that--I'm trying to say this in a non-negative way--he's done having to deal with this exact group, because he feels like his modus operandi wasn't really working with them to the degree that he's used to. Remember that mid-season "I'm not gonna change" presser? He's still a USMA dude. He's used to his "cadets" jumping when he says jump. He did one of the better jobs in his career this year--it's getting sort of pointless to compare years on that count anymore, because he's done so many amazing one-year jobs.

I'm at a loss to explain why he looks like he feels like the Krzyzewski juju was at least partially lost on this group. Yeah, you've got several frosh, but really the main one who played much was Rivers. Otherwise, the main starring cast has been around, Dos Plumlees, Dawkins, Curry, TT...it's not like he had a whole new starring cast like Calipari often does. These people know his ways.

Obviously, if you talk to a lot of Duke fans, this has led to (IMO, rather ugly) scapegoating of Rivers, which I don't understand.

All in all, it sort of smelled to me like K is at least partly glad to have this year done with and is ready for the Olympic team and a fresh start with Duke next fall. I may be wrong and I bet if media asked him he'd refute the idea, for obvious reasons having to do with the way you have to deal with the media when you're in his position.

I don't know which press conference, but I remember Coach K also saying that he had to go back and read all of his books, since he's obviously forgotten something... something was missing.

And, to me, even if the main starring cast has been around, none of this cast has even remotely "led" the team. They had Nolan and Kyle, and before that, Jon and Lance and Zoubs. To me, that "leader" is what was missing this year. I remember Coach K saying something to the effect that the China/Dubai trip would allow a leader to "emerge". Maybe, it never really happened...

[COYS]

I don't know which press conference, but I remember Coach K also saying that he had to go back and read all of his books, since he's obviously forgotten something... something was missing.

And, to me, even if the main starring cast has been around, none of this cast has even remotely "led" the team. They had Nolan and Kyle, and before that, Jon and Lance and Zoubs. To me, that "leader" is what was missing this year. I remember Coach K saying something to the effect that the China/Dubai trip would allow a leader to "emerge". Maybe, it never really happened...

I don't think the lack of an obvious "leader" is that uncommon with Duke teams. As talented as the 2002 squad was, it didn't have its unquestioned leader from the year before in Battier. The 2005 team also didn't have a clear cut leader after Duhon graduated, in my opinion, even though JJ was the unquestioned focus of the offense. The 2007 squad's struggles at the leadership position led to Coach K making DeMarcus the single captain in 2008. The 2009 team went through a number of metamorphoses throughout the season. The 2010 team worked because Jon, Nolan, Kyle, Brian, and Lance all led together in their own ways (Lance communicating on defense and the emotional leader, Nolan spearheading the defense and creating offense, Jon managing our offense to perfection, Kyle with unsurpassed toughness, Brian with his unstoppable determination to make his senior season a special one).

Leadership comes much easier to a player when they have established their role. Lance became a leader when he established himself as an elite defender. The game slowed down for him his senior year and he was a step ahead of the oppositions offense on almost every possession. In the years prior, he had yet to consistently channel his ability for every game, every night. Prior to 2009, Nolan had yet to carve out a role. He even lost his starting job late in the 2009 season. However, he quickly adapted to his new role as an attacking two-guard on offense and the tip of the spear on defense. This allowed him to emerge as a leader. Chris Duhon struggled a bit during his junior year. The level of leadership he displayed during his much improved 2004 campaign was superior to his leadership the year before. No one on this year's team except perhaps Tyler was completely comfortable in their role. Seth never quite adapted to being a PG. Mason never quite felt comfortable as a go-to scorer in the post. Miles, as good a year as he had (and he will be GREATLY missed next season), never achieved Lance Thomas or Brian Zoubek command of the defense. Austin kenw his role was to score, but he had the usual freshman adjustments to make. Tyler was perhaps the only one on the team who took to his role as a defensive pest and manager of the offense. However, he is not yet capable of on court performances as amazing as senior Lance or Brian.

However, virtually none of the Duke players that I've mentioned as leaders started off that way. Lance was definitely NOT quarterbacking the defense in 2007. Nolan was not taking over the offense in late shot-clock situations in 2009, etc. IF everyone comes back next year, I suspect that Coach K will have an easier time finding the leaders on the team because the players will have improved and grown into their roles a bit more.

[Aziggazoomba]

Just wanted to say "thanks" for (most of) your replies.

I'll look forward to more fun and games in the rivalry next year. I can imagine that next season neither of our teams will look a whole lot like this season's, and we an thank David Stern and company for that.

Cheers and Go Heels.

[greybeard]

A couple of observations. It seems to me that the composition of this team was odd-5 very talented guards, only one with decent size but apparently didn't play his size, and only three bigs, one of whom really was an extremely tall small forward.

You could have knocked me over with a feather when Cook committed, especially after Rivers did. Three of the five guards needed shots, one needed to be on the floor alot and, when he was, he needed the ball a long time; and to balance Rivers, Curry needed to play a similar game, albeit that he didn't need the ball too much.

I have to believe that, if K knew that Rivers was coming, he would not have recruited Cook. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Cook took Duke's offer, after Rivers had committed. Notwithstanding his knee, which I believe had a negative impact on his 3-ball shooting, Cook was often the best choice to get some juice in the offense from guys not named Rivers and Curry, but the other guys di9d not appear to be ready for the change, which usually did not last very long.

Tyler needed to be on the floor to steady the offense, as a symbol of the need to get the other scorers involved, and for his defense.

All this seemed to leave little room for Josh to get any minutes at the three, and K apparently thought it improvident to use him as a four except when necessary.

So, whatever K came up with in terms of how he expected this team to organize, it had to be outside the realm of experience for just about everyone on the court. I think that K got it exactly right, except that I would fault neither him nor his team for Duke's failure to win the regular season, the tournament (NCST can really play), and, I did not see the Lehigh game so can't comment about that.

As for red shirting the two freshman, playing a kid who comes out a year early, it seems to me has its obvious drawbacks, especially a tweener, and K probably thought that Marshall could not have been enough of a difference maker to justify not giving him a year to mature physically.

The enigma to me was Dawkins. Maybe K expected more from him from the start, or at least something different--maybe a guy who could handle the 3 as a starter. But, I think that Dawkins stepped up big time and was the difference maker enough times to have more than pleased K. What happened towards the end, the limited minutes and the complete shut down in Dawkin's play, my intuition says that maybe something happened here that we do not know about.

[rtnorthrup]

A couple of observations. It seems to me that the composition of this team was odd-5 very talented guards, only one with decent size but apparently didn't play his size, and only three bigs, one of whom really was an extremely tall small forward.

You could have knocked me over with a feather when Cook committed, especially after Rivers did. Three of the five guards needed shots, one needed to be on the floor alot and, when he was, he needed the ball a long time; and to balance Rivers, Curry needed to play a similar game, albeit that he didn't need the ball too much.

I have to believe that, if K knew that Rivers was coming, he would not have recruited Cook. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Cook took Duke's offer, after Rivers had committed. Notwithstanding his knee, which I believe had a negative impact on his 3-ball shooting, Cook was often the best choice to get some juice in the offense from guys not named Rivers and Curry, but the other guys di9d not appear to be ready for the change, which usually did not last very long.

Tyler needed to be on the floor to steady the offense, as a symbol of the need to get the other scorers involved, and for his defense.

All this seemed to leave little room for Josh to get any minutes at the three, and K apparently thought it improvident to use him as a four except when necessary.

So, whatever K came up with in terms of how he expected this team to organize, it had to be outside the realm of experience for just about everyone on the court. I think that K got it exactly right, except that I would fault neither him nor his team for Duke's failure to win the regular season, the tournament (NCST can really play), and, I did not see the Lehigh game so can't comment about that.

As for red shirting the two freshman, playing a kid who comes out a year early, it seems to me has its obvious drawbacks, especially a tweener, and K probably thought that Marshall could not have been enough of a difference maker to justify not giving him a year to mature physically.

The enigma to me was Dawkins. Maybe K expected more from him from the start, or at least something different--maybe a guy who could handle the 3 as a starter. But, I think that Dawkins stepped up big time and was the difference maker enough times to have more than pleased K. What happened towards the end, the limited minutes and the complete shut down in Dawkin's play, my intuition says that maybe something happened here that we do not know about.

grey,

I think it gets even weirder than you said. Austin is an enigma. He is not a natural point guard, but he needs the ball in his hands to create scoring opportunities for himself. That leaves the other guard in a quandry. If you start a traditional point guard with Austin, you have two guards who want the ball in their hands (Quinn Cook, dilemma), if you start a traditional two guard, he ends up standing around alot while Austin goes off the pick and roll (The Curry/Dawkins dilemma). This was why Austin was labeled selfish, early on in the season. He isnt really going to create shots for other players, but he was the only player on our team who could create his own shot. Quite simply, he didnt fit any traditional offense that Duke likes to run.

Coach K chose to pair him with Tyler, which makes sense. Tyler is limited offensively and doesnt need the ball in his hands to run the offense. But late in the season, teams recognized Tyler's offensive limitations and chose to give defensive help with Tyler's man, staying home on Curry/Dawkins. Tyler was also one of our better on ball defenders (though he does foul too much), which allowed us to keep games in the 60s instead of the 80's.

All in all, I think it was simply a matter of not having pieces that fit together this year. IF Rivers leaves, I think you will see a more traditional Duke offense next year with Quinn at the point, Curry as a spot up shooter at the two, Murphy/Gbinije at the three, Kelly at the four and Mason/Marshall at the five. This will allow people to fill roles that they are comfortable with. If Rivers stays, I think Coach K is going to need to tinker with our offensive sets to get the most out of everyone.

[greybeard]

grey,

I think it gets even weirder than you said. Austin is an enigma. He is not a natural point guard, but he needs the ball in his hands to create scoring opportunities for himself. That leaves the other guard in a quandry. If you start a traditional point guard with Austin, you have two guards who want the ball in their hands (Quinn Cook, dilemma), if you start a traditional two guard, he ends up standing around alot while Austin goes off the pick and roll (The Curry/Dawkins dilemma). This was why Austin was labeled selfish, early on in the season. He isnt really going to create shots for other players, but he was the only player on our team who could create his own shot. Quite simply, he didnt fit any traditional offense that Duke likes to run.


This is weirder and more insightful, but may I offer a little different shake. Austin, I think you got spot on, except that K had a solution that he used most of the time, and I think that Austin fit with, allowed him to share the ball effectively, albeit on a limited basis. Using high screens for not just Austin but also Curry worked, and I think that that is why Austin improved as the season progressed. Curry proved not simply to be a terrific shooter, but also terrific at finishing at the rim, either coming off screens but also on clear outs. Austin was good at giving it up when stymied to give Curry his chance, and plays were often run with Curry receiving the first high screen chance to score.

As long as Ryan was on the court and/or dawkins when he was shooting well, Tyler did not inhibit the effectiveness of the offense but rather usually added to it. Plays were run to get Ryan or Dawkins threes from the side, 3 or 4 feet from the foul line extended and somewhere near the top for Ryan, and usually somewhere near the top 13 of the three circle for Dawkins. People could not cheat off Tyler because Tyler gave it up and often was on the move. Also, if you don't guard someone and he sets an effective screen for a shooter, bingo. Also, when a defender sagged off Tyler, Tyler was good at closing space with the ball, and from there, was much more dangerous.

However, I agree with you that Rivers' style was a major issue in creating coherence on offense, which I believe lead K to try to find coherence off the chaos that is Rivers. This, to me, was a novelty. There was a period when Curry was getting a number of opportunities with Rivers help that permitted Rivers much more opportunity to get something that was easy for him (probably impossible for anyone else) to finish at the rim. I think that that lead him to look for himself more. He delivered a reasonable percentage, but the real beginings of coherence increasingly diminished. That is why I think that Tyler was inserted as a starter.

I do not recall when Duke stopped looking to get the ball to Mason, but I believe it had something to do with defenses having a second big help keep Mason from getting to the middle after the catch. How K had organized to get Mason the ball as often as he did, I did not notice (I was looking for whether Mason got it with advantage on the move, whether passes were made so he could make athletic catches that gave him separation, whether there was high post play, and when you are looking for specific things, you lose the rest of them). I believe that K went away from that emphasis when teams gimicked the interior defense to keep Mason from getting to the middle off the bounce and K tried once to get Ryan chances low on the other side of the lane, which he did, but unfortunately Ryan did not finish well and the experiment was tabled.

K, at some point decided that Rivers would be the focal point, he would be given a complete green light, Curry would be now a less frequent, I don't know, maybe a less predictable, second option, and I think that everyone felt less in control, did not understand how they fit in and how they could contribute. No one sulked, the talent and guts of this team kept the team together and, for the most part, winning. Whatever the approach on offense was, whatever each guy's role was in particular sets or called plays, no one really seemed to, how should I say it, know what to do with the ball a good deal of the time, or much more of the time than one would expect. You could see it in Mason and Miles quite clearly, Ryan and Curry were rushing shots or missed open looks that seemed confounding (it might well have been because the team was not working to get them those looks, which can make a lot of difference to the shooter).

As for Dre in all this. If he came in and was hot from the start, K made sure he got the ball. Dre was sometimes sent in just to give someone a spell, but then I think that whatever it was he was supposed to do, it was not apparent; if he got a touch with space, he'd shoot. My sense was that those shots in the main did not fall. If Dre did some other things well, or the team was not loosing ground, Dre stayed in a while. I don't think that Dre felt comfortable other than when sent in as the assassin--he knew he'd get one maybe two second chances unless he had already established himself, and played with the confidence of a guy who knew his role.

Ryan seemed to me always to understand what was going on, particularly when it was undiscernible, and was good as one could be in righting the ship, at least giving the team some theme to try to play off--it often was to go all out to help Rivers bust free. Duke, especially with Ryan on the floor, or with a sharp Curry (great season, by the way, really great), seemed to do reaonably well in the final 10 seconds, with everyone contributing.

As I said previously, Duke was capable of winning lots of games without Dawkins, but its ceiling to me was entirely dependent on the extent that Dawkins could raise it. I still think that there is something we do not know.

[mgtr]

I also thought from the beginning that there was a bit of a "wait-until-next-year" message in keeping potential stalwarts MP3 and Murphy in cold storage for the year. Of course, I waited until the end of the season to reveal my preseason analysis. :p:o

sage

This is an excellent point. I agree completely, and of course, I thought the same from the beginning of the year. I much prefer backcasts to forecasts, and find that I am more accurate that way. I knew, from the beginning that without a Kyle Singler replacement, we were just marking time. Very clever of you to pick up on the same point without mentioning it.

[UrinalCake]

Regarding the halftime interviews, I mean I get that the coaches need to be focusing on their team but at the same time college basketball exists for entertainment. It relies on its fans for support so why shouldn't they get to hear what the Coach has to say for 30 seconds? The fact that Coach K always ducks these interviews always draws a lot of cricitism, as most other coaches - even prominent ones like Izzo, Calhoun, and Roy Williams - do them themselves. Pawning the job off on an assistant seems to give off an air of superiority, at least in the eyes of our opponents' fans.

Anyways, I'm all for forcing the head coaches to the interviews. Just my two cents.

[75Crazie]

Regarding the halftime interviews, I mean I get that the coaches need to be focusing on their team but at the same time college basketball exists for entertainment. It relies on its fans for support so why shouldn't they get to hear what the Coach has to say for 30 seconds? The fact that Coach K always ducks these interviews always draws a lot of cricitism, as most other coaches - even prominent ones like Izzo, Calhoun, and Roy Williams - do them themselves. Pawning the job off on an assistant seems to give off an air of superiority, at least in the eyes of our opponents' fans.

Anyways, I'm all for forcing the head coaches to the interviews. Just my two cents.
And my $.02 is that those interviews are complete and utter wastes of time, almost nothing meaningful is ever said in them, and I do not blame ANY coach for doing whatever they can to avoid them. I always assumed that K sent Collins to do them because he (K) had the clout to say "no".