NCAAW tournament discussion

[uh_no]

I can't be the only women's fan out there, but the women's tournament started this morning, as is expected, it's mostly scratch thus far. Maryland looked good in their opener against Navy. Many people argued against the inclusion of texas, and they got trounced by WV.

Something to watch for Duke's sake, though we couldn't meet them for another week and a half, one of the Ogwumike sisters for stanford went out with a leg injury today...

Miami plays at 630, and tennessee at 410 as the other 2 seeds who may have to play "road games" in either of the first two rounds

Duke plays tomorrow at 730

[CameronBornAndBred]

Many people argued against the inclusion of texas, ....
And they were all right. Looking forward to our second round game more than our first, although tomorrow should give us a feel as to what we can or can't expect from E-Will. Due to our injuries and depleted roster I'm not expecting a deep run, so every win that we may get will be enjoyable gravy. GO DUKE!!

[uh_no]

And they were all right. Looking forward to our second round game more than our first, although tomorrow should give us a feel as to what we can or can't expect from E-Will. Due to our injuries and depleted roster I'm not expecting a deep run, so every win that we may get will be enjoyable gravy. GO DUKE!!

YEah, how good Ewill can contribute will be key. We're very shorthanded either way. I think St. Johns will be the end of the road, but if E will is fully healthy, its a lot closer.....

[msdukie]

The goal is to win six games. Whether we do or not, our expectations should be to be able to do that. Don't sell our team short before we even start to play.

[wandalee]

Anyone watching Elena Delle Donne playing for Deleware? Wow, wish she had come to Duke, but glad she left Conn. She's a great overall player.

[uh_no]

Anyone watching Elena Delle Donne playing for Deleware? Wow, wish she had come to Duke, but glad she left Conn. She's a great overall player.

Had she come, E-Will might have chosen to go elsewhere...plus I think she would have left wherever she went....she wanted to be close to her sister, not at a basketball powerhouse.

But she is great. I look forward to a possible showdown between her and griner.

[wandalee]

Of course, she should be a senior this year, so that may not have affected EWill's committment. It will be interesting if she & Griner have to meet up since they play such different games!

[uh_no]

Of course, she should be a senior this year, so that may not have affected EWill's committment. It will be interesting if she & Griner have to meet up since they play such different games!

Jeez....time flies...seems like yesterday when she bailed on Uconn....

Either way, I don't think the problem was uconn specifically....just being away from home.

[uh_no]

great end to the MD game, and great win for them.

[Kedsy]

Is this a place where I can get up on my soapbox about the mockery that is the Women's NCAA tournament?

Delaware (3) @ UALR (14)
Green Bay (7) @ Iowa State (10)
Rutgers (6) @ Gonzaga (11)

Tennessee (2) @ DePaul (7)
Duke (2) @ Vanderbilt (7)
St. John's (3) @ Oklahoma (6)
Miami (3) @ Gonzaga (11)

This bugged the heck out of me when Duke (1) played and lost @ Michigan State (9) a few years ago. What's the point of winning in the regular season if all it gets you is a true road game against a lower seed. It's bad enough they let the high seeds play at home (has UConn played a first or second round game anywhere but their home state, ever?), but to make a high seed play in a lower seed's gym is absurd. If women's NCAA basketball wants to be treated like a major sport, as it deserves, the powers-that-be need to start acting like they run a major sport.

OK, [/RANT]

[uh_no]

Is this a place where I can get up on my soapbox about the mockery that is the Women's NCAA tournament?

Delaware (3) @ UALR (14)
Green Bay (7) @ Iowa State (10)
Rutgers (6) @ Gonzaga (11)

Tennessee (2) @ DePaul (7)
Duke (2) @ Vanderbilt (7)
St. John's (3) @ Oklahoma (6)
Miami (3) @ Gonzaga (11)

This bugged the heck out of me when Duke (1) played and lost @ Michigan State (9) a few years ago. What's the point of winning in the regular season if all it gets you is a true road game against a lower seed. It's bad enough they let the high seeds play at home (has UConn played a first or second round game anywhere but their home state, ever?), but to make a high seed play in a lower seed's gym is absurd. If women's NCAA basketball wants to be treated like a major sport, as it deserves, the powers-that-be need to start acting like they run a major sport.

OK, [/RANT]

Duke had a perfect opportunity to lock up raleigh this year and couldn't seal the deal. the schedule was unbalanced and their home and aways were much tougher than were dukes. In the end, duke choked in the tournament, when if they had just made it to the final they probably would be playing in raleigh.

Unfortunately the rules are that if your home site is available you MUST play there...regardless of seed.

I think its silly, but its done for ticket reasons. I understand that just playing on the higher seeded teams court is a logistical nightmare...both for the teams and ESPN...It's either we have some bad pairings, or the women play in front of absolutely empty arenas....i don't know which one is better...

[blazindw]

Is this a place where I can get up on my soapbox about the mockery that is the Women's NCAA tournament?

Delaware (3) @ UALR (14)
Green Bay (7) @ Iowa State (10)
Rutgers (6) @ Gonzaga (11)

Tennessee (2) @ DePaul (7)
Duke (2) @ Vanderbilt (7)
St. John's (3) @ Oklahoma (6)
Miami (3) @ Gonzaga (11)

This bugged the heck out of me when Duke (1) played and lost @ Michigan State (9) a few years ago. What's the point of winning in the regular season if all it gets you is a true road game against a lower seed. It's bad enough they let the high seeds play at home (has UConn played a first or second round game anywhere but their home state, ever?), but to make a high seed play in a lower seed's gym is absurd. If women's NCAA basketball wants to be treated like a major sport, as it deserves, the powers-that-be need to start acting like they run a major sport.

OK, [/RANT]

I really dislike that too. Baylor, the #1 overall seed, has to travel to Bowling Green, OH and then Des Moines to get to Denver, while UConn plays at home for the first 2 rounds and then goes to Kingston, RI for the regional. That doesn't seem right either.

I think that if they're going to give people the opportunity to play at home, it should be the top 4 seeds in each region. That should be the reward for getting those seeds. A 14 seed should not face a 3 seed at home. It's not that hard to organize it so that whoever gets those top 4 seeds can prepare to host their pod.

[Duvall]

Duke had a perfect opportunity to lock up raleigh this year and couldn't seal the deal. the schedule was unbalanced and their home and aways were much tougher than were dukes. In the end, duke choked in the tournament, when if they had just made it to the final they probably would be playing in raleigh.

Unfortunately the rules are that if your home site is available you MUST play there...regardless of seed.

I think its silly, but its done for ticket reasons. I understand that just playing on the higher seeded teams court is a logistical nightmare...both for the teams and ESPN...It's either we have some bad pairings, or the women play in front of absolutely empty arenas....i don't know which one is better...

It's 2012. If ESPN can't get broadcast teams to the sites of the top sixteen seeds with one week's notice, maybe someone else should be broadcasting the tournament.

[blazindw]

Duke had a perfect opportunity to lock up raleigh this year and couldn't seal the deal. the schedule was unbalanced and their home and aways were much tougher than were dukes. In the end, duke choked in the tournament, when if they had just made it to the final they probably would be playing in raleigh.

Unfortunately the rules are that if your home site is available you MUST play there...regardless of seed.

I think its silly, but its done for ticket reasons. I understand that just playing on the higher seeded teams court is a logistical nightmare...both for the teams and ESPN...It's either we have some bad pairings, or the women play in front of absolutely empty arenas....i don't know which one is better...

They'd have a week to organize it...I'm sure it could be done. They do it for the first couple rounds of the NIT, and they usually only have 1-2 days to organize the first game. No one knows where they're playing until Selection Monday anyway (except for those teams that make the tourney that know they're hosting a pod), but having the top 4 seeds playing at home can be organized pretty quickly...they're the ones that will buy most of the tickets anyway.

[throatybeard]

I really dislike that too. Baylor, the #1 overall seed, has to travel to Bowling Green, OH and then Des Moines to get to Denver, while UConn plays at home for the first 2 rounds and then goes to Kingston, RI for the regional. That doesn't seem right either.

I think that if they're going to give people the opportunity to play at home, it should be the top 4 seeds in each region. That should be the reward for getting those seeds. A 14 seed should not face a 3 seed at home. It's not that hard to organize it so that whoever gets those top 4 seeds can prepare to host their pod.

In other words, like they used to do it before the fixed sites. Top four seeds got to host. Baylor will steamroll through the obstacle, but this is insane, and maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see how it's boosted attendance that much.

It's largely a TV product anyway.

[blazindw]

In other words, like they used to do it before the fixed sites. Top four seeds got to host. Baylor will steamroll through the obstacle, but this is insane, and maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see how it's boosted attendance that much.

It's largely a TV product anyway.

Exactly.

And as we speak, The U is set to fall to Gonzaga, who was playing on their home floor as the 11 seed.

[uh_no]

anyway, miami about to to go down, and defending champions texas a&m just squeaked one out

[CameronBornAndBred]

anyway, miami about to to go down, and defending champions texas a&m just squeaked one out
Miami lost to Gonzaga on Gonzaga's home court. And Miami of course was the higher seed. Shades of Michigan State, I think we'll be ready for tonight but it's still going to be a tough atmosphere, playing Vandy at Vandy.

[Kedsy]

Duke had a perfect opportunity to lock up raleigh this year and couldn't seal the deal. the schedule was unbalanced and their home and aways were much tougher than were dukes. In the end, duke choked in the tournament, when if they had just made it to the final they probably would be playing in raleigh.

I get that, and I also get that a #3 seed should be able to beat a #11 seed on the road and a #1 seed should be able to beat a #9 seed on the road. But those arguments aren't persuasive to me. If Duke had played better they'd have made Chapel Hill and Raleigh this year, so what? The committee still thought enough of them to make them a #2 seed, and then sent them to play a #7 seed who has a weirdly configured home court and who is WAY better at home (based on the stats split, if Vanderbilt played all their games at home they'd have been much better than a #7). If you're going to hugely disadvantage the higher seeds, what's the point of seeding?


Unfortunately the rules are that if your home site is available you MUST play there...regardless of seed.

I think its silly, but its done for ticket reasons. I understand that just playing on the higher seeded teams court is a logistical nightmare...both for the teams and ESPN...It's either we have some bad pairings, or the women play in front of absolutely empty arenas....i don't know which one is better...

As others pointed out, the logistical argument is weak. If you sacrifice your sport's integrity to sell a few tickets, you're on the road to becoming pro wrestling.

[Duvall]

I get that, and I also get that a #3 seed should be able to beat a #11 seed on the road and a #1 seed should be able to beat a #9 seed on the road. But those arguments aren't persuasive to me. If Duke had played better they'd have made Chapel Hill and Raleigh this year, so what?

Let's be clear - the only way Duke could have gotten to play the first and second rounds in Chapel Hill would have been by earning a #1 seed. A 19-0 record in conference play would not have been enough.


As others pointed out, the logistical argument is weak. If you sacrifice your sport's integrity to sell a few tickets, you're on the road to becoming pro wrestling.

It's my understanding that the predetermined sites are about TV broadcasting, not ticket sales. Letting the top seeds host would probably result in higher ticket sales, since you would avoid "empty" subregionals like this year's Chapel Hill site.

[Kedsy]

Let's be clear - the only way Duke could have gotten to play the first and second rounds in Chapel Hill would have been by earning a #1 seed. A 19-0 record in conference play would not have been enough.

Why? I'm really asking.

Chapel Hill leads to the Des Moine regional, which makes no more sense than leading to the Fresno regional. Chapel Hill is hosting a 4/5 subregional. If you could switch it to a 1/8 subregional, as you suggest, why not switch it to a 2/7 subregional. In fact, other than the idea that they seeded Vandy as a #7 and thus Nashville was therefore "forced" to host a 2/7, I'm not sure I see why Duke didn't play in Chapel Hill anyway. If the rule is that the host school must play at home, then if Vandy had been a #5 they would have hosted a 4/5 subregional; if they had been a #8 they would have hosted a 1/8 subregional. Would Duke then have been able to play in Chapel Hill? Is the fate of the top seeds really determined by where the committee semi-arbitrarily decides to seed the lower teams?


It's my understanding that the predetermined sites are about TV broadcasting, not ticket sales.

In some ways that makes it even worse. Roller Derby instead of Pro Wrestling.

[blazindw]

There's no reason why we couldn't have played in Chapel Hill, especially since another ACC team, Georgia Tech, gets to play there as a lower seed. But, we gotta play the teams in front of us, and if we need to beat Vandy on their home floor to get to the Sweet 16, let's do just that.

[Duvall]

Why? I'm really asking.

Chapel Hill leads to the Des Moine regional, which makes no more sense than leading to the Fresno regional. Chapel Hill is hosting a 4/5 subregional. If you could switch it to a 1/8 subregional, as you suggest, why not switch it to a 2/7 subregional. In fact, other than the idea that they seeded Vandy as a #7 and thus Nashville was therefore "forced" to host a 2/7, I'm not sure I see why Duke didn't play in Chapel Hill anyway. If the rule is that the host school must play at home, then if Vandy had been a #5 they would have hosted a 4/5 subregional; if they had been a #8 they would have hosted a 1/8 subregional. Would Duke then have been able to play in Chapel Hill? Is the fate of the top seeds really determined by where the committee semi-arbitrarily decides to seed the lower teams?

Yes.

A top seeded Duke team would likely have been sent to another venue while Vanderbilt hosted a different #2 seed. And if Vanderbilt were a #5 seed, they probably would have hosted Georgia Tech and Duke might have played in Chapel Hill, regardless of its seed.

It's a terrible system, but that's how it is.

[Kedsy]

It's a terrible system, but that's how it is.

Terrible is understating it. To me, it saps the Women's game of credibility. Which is a disservice to a sport that truly deserves credibility.

[burnspbesq]

Miami lost to Gonzaga on Gonzaga's home court. And Miami of course was the higher seed. Shades of Michigan State, I think we'll be ready for tonight but it's still going to be a tough atmosphere, playing Vandy at Vandy.

Umm, you don't think Miami's 34 turnovers, or the absence of Riquana Williams, had anything to do with thir loss?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Umm, you don't think Miami's 34 turnovers, or the absence of Riquana Williams, had anything to do with thir loss?

Actually I do. I wasn't aware until after I posted that Williams did not make the trip. Losing an All ACC guard is going to hurt you lots.

[Kedsy]

Umm, you don't think Miami's 34 turnovers, or the absence of Riquana Williams, had anything to do with thir loss?

That all may be true, but they still shouldn't have had to play on the 11 seed's home court.

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

Women's Basketball is about the "G-Curve" (Geography Curve). Maryland was the highest #2 seed, followed by Tennessee, Kentucky, then Duke. As a result, Maryland got the regional that was closest to them (Raleigh). Duke got the last regional available (Fresno, California). With the exception of Maryland, who was awarded a host bid, all #2 seeds had to play at a #7 seed homecourt (Tennessee at Rosemont although not technically DePaul's homecourt, Kentucky at Iowa State, though ISU lost in the 1st round, and Duke at Vandy). NCAA rules forbids conference foes from playing on another conference member's homecourt. Therefore, Kentucky and Tennessee couldn't have gone to Vandy. The NCAA really didn't have a choice, with the rules that were in play. Of course, you could argue (and I'm sure it was a consideration) if Duke would've rather been a 3 seed...

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

I don't think Duke was ever in the cards for Elena Delle-Donne. Remember her brother was quarterback here but later transferred to MTSU.

[blazindw]

Women's Basketball is about the "G-Curve" (Geography Curve). Maryland was the highest #2 seed, followed by Tennessee, Kentucky, then Duke. As a result, Maryland got the regional that was closest to them (Raleigh). Duke got the last regional available (Fresno, California). With the exception of Maryland, who was awarded a host bid, all #2 seeds had to play at a #7 seed homecourt (Tennessee at Rosemont although not technically DePaul's homecourt, Kentucky at Iowa State, though ISU lost in the 1st round, and Duke at Vandy). NCAA rules forbids conference foes from playing on another conference member's homecourt. Therefore, Kentucky and Tennessee couldn't have gone to Vandy. The NCAA really didn't have a choice, with the rules that were in play. Of course, you could argue (and I'm sure it was a consideration) if Duke would've rather been a 3 seed...

Georgia Tech was the top seeded team at the Chapel Hill pod (as a 4 seed), so they shouldn't have been allowed to play there either, by these rules.

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

Georgia Tech was the top seeded team at the Chapel Hill pod (as a 4 seed), so they shouldn't have been allowed to play there either, by these rules.

unc didn't make the tournament. Vanderbilt made the tournament. Therefore, Tennessee and Kentucky couldn't have played in the Vanderbilt. Had unc made the tournament, Duke, Miami, and GT wouldn't have been in the pod unc was hosting.

[blazindw]

unc didn't make the tournament. Vanderbilt made the tournament. Therefore, Tennessee and Kentucky couldn't have played in the Vanderbilt. Had unc made the tournament, Duke, Miami, and GT wouldn't have been in the pod unc was hosting.

Right, we know that part. That's not what you posted though.

[MCFinARL]

Well, all other considerations aside, I'm now watching Georgetown vs. Georgia Tech in the Dean Dome and there is NO ONE there--I've seen more fans at a bad high school game. It's sad, really. Not saying the Duke women's team could fill the Dean Dome, necessarily, but I have to believe they would draw many more fans than this. So for reasons of sheer economics, the decision to send Duke away doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Duvall]

Well, all other considerations aside, I'm now watching Georgetown vs. Georgia Tech in the Dean Dome and there is NO ONE there--I've seen more fans at a bad high school game. It's sad, really. Not saying the Duke women's team could fill the Dean Dome, necessarily, but I have to believe they would draw many more fans than this. So for reasons of sheer economics, the decision to send Duke away doesn't make a lot of sense.

They're playing at (and struggling to fill) Carmichael, not the Dean Dome.

[burnspbesq]

Two of tonight's early games have gone final. Baylor handled Florida, and St. Bonaventure barely held off Marist. Georgia Tech and Notre Dame have four-possession leads with under four minutes left.

Duke and Vandy tip off in about 25 minutes.

[MCFinARL]

They're playing at (and struggling to fill) Carmichael, not the Dean Dome.

Oh, of course, my bad. That's what I get for trying to do work and watch basketball at the same time. So, even worse.