59th ACC Tourney (FSU is ACC Champion)

[gofurman]

Someone please post when they know the official acc tourney seeding.. lots of teams with the same record / I think if you have more than one team with same record (so you can't compare head-to-head) they go with the groups total record against each other? IE, three teams at 9-7 then you compare each team vs the other two and see what record each of those three teams has vs the other two (of course with unbalanced you might get a 2-1 vs a 1-1 or 2-2 , kinda' not fair but thus an unbalanced schedule)

also, dont the first 4 teams get a bye on Thursday now? so one of the 9-7 teams gets a bye and the other two will paly thursday...

[tb3]

http://www.theacc.com/championships/12-acc-mens-basketball-tournament.html

Looks like we start with the Clemson/VT winner Friday at 7:00

[uh_no]

Someone please post when they know the official acc tourney seeding.. lots of teams with the same record / I think if you have more than one team with same record (so you can't compare head-to-head) they go with the groups total record against each other? IE, three teams at 9-7 then you compare each team vs the other two and see what record each of those three teams has vs the other two (of course with unbalanced you might get a 2-1 vs a 1-1 or 2-2 , kinda' not fair but thus an unbalanced schedule)

also, dont the first 4 teams get a bye on Thursday now? so one of the 9-7 teams gets a bye and the other two will paly thursday...

per my back of the envelope calculations, it is as follows

UNC
Duke
FSU

uva (won all games vs ncsu and miami)
ncsu (beat miami)
miami

clemson
maryland

wf 4-1 (against vt gt and bc)
VT 2-1 (against gt and bc)
gt (split with, but better record overall than bc)
bc

which means unc plays winner of umd and wf
duke play the winner of VT and clemson
fsu plays the winner ofgt and miami
uva plays the winner of ncsu and bc

[UrinalCake]

Here it is in bracket format, for those like me who need to look at it visually:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_ACC_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament#Bracket

UNC looks to have a pretty easy path to the finals. Maryland played them tough up in College Park, as did Virginia just this past week, and NC State has some weapons, but I fully expect them to make it to sunday. I think they can get around their perceived lack of depth by the fact that they just have so much talent and they stay out of foul trouble.

On our side, I'm glad NC State isn't in our half but no matter what we're going to need to play two solid games to make it to the final. Miami-FSU could make for a good game, and unfortunately I don't really want to play either of them.

[gofurman]

think i figured my own answer.

1.unc
2.duke
3.FSU
4.UVA

all sit out the first day

followg play the first day:
5.NC State vs 9
6. miami vs 10
7. clemson vs 11
8. MD vs 12
9 - 12 some order of Vtech, Wake, GTech and BC.. I havent taken the time to figure this one yet.

-side note. actually impressed with BC getting as many wins as Wake and GTech and VTech - BC has no where near the talent of VTech or Wake.. playin' almost ALL freshman this year. BC will be ok next year and pretty good the 2 after that.

-if things hold up, duke would get a 'tired' clemson team on Friday. Clemson is not that talented but well coached and playing MUCH better than when we beat them. they won 6 of their last 8 including beating UVA and NC State - impressive. Brownell is getting everything out of them possible and they arepretty good now.

[Olympic Fan]

Now that NC State has beaten Virginia Tech it's set.

Thursday:

Noon: No. 8 Maryland (16-14) vs. No. 9 Wake Forest (15-16)
2 p.m.: No. 5 NC State (20-11) vs. No. 12 Boston College (9-21)
7 p.m.: No. 7 Clemson (16-14) vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech (15-16)
9 p.m.: No. 6 Miami (18-11) vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech (11-19)

Friday:

Noon: No. 1 North Carolina (27-4) vs. Maryland/Wake winner
2 p.m.: No. 4 Virginia (22-8) vs. NC State/Boston College winner
7 p.m. No. 2 Duke (26-5) vs. Clemson/Virginia Tech winner
9 p.m.: No. 3 Florida State (20-9) vs,. Miami/Georgia Tech winner

Saturday

1 p.m.: First semifinal (probably UNC vs. somebody)
3 p.m.: second semifinal (Duke-FSU?)

Sunday 1 p.m.: Championship Game

Comments: NC State and Miami are the two bubble teams. Don't think a win Thursday helps them much (although a loss would kill them). But a victory Friday -- State over Virginia; Miami over FSU -- would probably be enough to get them in. As for Duke, I'd rather have Clemson in our bracket than NC State, but I worry that Virginia Tech might be more dangerous than the Tigers.

As for UNC, yeah, they have an easy path -- but they earned it. No complaints.

With Michigan State losing today at home to Ohio State, I think it more likely that the ACC Tournament winner gets the fourth No. 1 seed -- especially if Duke beats UNC in the title game.

[UrinalCake]

With Michigan State losing today at home to Ohio State, I think it more likely that the ACC Tournament winner gets the fourth No. 1 seed -- especially if Duke beats UNC in the title game.

I like your post but disagree with the bolded part. If UNC wins the ACCT, they are definitely getting a #1 seed. I can say that almost unequivocably, regardless of what happens in the rest of the country. But if Duke wins, I think there's still a chance they won't get it. Especially if they beat a team other than UNC in the final game.

[Duvall]

I like your post but disagree with the bolded part. If UNC wins the ACCT, they are definitely getting a #1 seed. I can say that almost unequivocably, regardless of what happens in the rest of the country. But if Duke wins, I think there's still a chance they won't get it. Especially if they beat a team other than UNC in the final game.

Anything's possible. But the committee would have to find a fourth 1-seed somewhere, and in that scenario it's hard to imagine another team with a better body of work than Duke.

[uh_no]

Anything's possible. But the committee would have to find a fourth 1-seed somewhere, and in that scenario it's hard to imagine another team with a better body of work than Duke.

Unless Duke gets another shot and beats UNC, an 18 point loss in the last game of the season will weigh very heavily on the commitees minds....much more so than MSU's 2 point loss to OSU anyway.

I think the conference tournaments will determine the the last 2 1 seeds.

If it were to end today, I think the ordering would be

Kansas
UNC
MSU
Duke

for duke to get a one seed at this point, I think they need to beat UNC for the title, and need one of MSU or Kansas to not win their tournament.

FOr MSU to get onto the top line, I think they need kansas to not win, or UNC to lose to someone other than duke.

[gofurman]

Now that NC State has beaten Virginia Tech it's set.

Thursday:

Noon: No. 8 Maryland (16-14) vs. No. 9 Wake Forest (15-16)
2 p.m.: No. 5 NC State (20-11) vs. No. 12 Boston College (9-21)
7 p.m.: No. 7 Clemson (16-14) vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech (15-16)
9 p.m.: No. 6 Miami (18-11) vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech (11-19)

Friday:

Noon: No. 1 North Carolina (27-4) vs. Maryland/Wake winner
2 p.m.: No. 4 Virginia (22-8) vs. NC State/Boston College winner
7 p.m. No. 2 Duke (26-5) vs. Clemson/Virginia Tech winner
9 p.m.: No. 3 Florida State (20-9) vs,. Miami/Georgia Tech winner

Saturday

1 p.m.: First semifinal (probably UNC vs. somebody)
3 p.m.: second semifinal (Duke-FSU?)

Sunday 1 p.m.: Championship Game

Comments: NC State and Miami are the two bubble teams. Don't think a win Thursday helps them much (although a loss would kill them). But a victory Friday -- State over Virginia; Miami over FSU -- would probably be enough to get them in. As for Duke, I'd rather have Clemson in our bracket than NC State, but I worry that Virginia Tech might be more dangerous than the Tigers.As for UNC, yeah, they have an easy path -- but they earned it. No complaints.

With Michigan State losing today at home to Ohio State, I think it more likely that the ACC Tournament winner gets the fourth No. 1 seed -- especially if Duke beats UNC in the title game.

I am going to go on record and say I'd far rather face Vt as they are playing now than Clemson as they are playing now. I went and watched them play in Person over at Littlejohn thursday and Clemson couldn't hit the side of a barn - 0for 11 from three and like 14 of 25 free throws... and the Tigers still won. This despite VT hitting 8 of 16 threes !!! Think about that , Clemson won with a negative 24 point differential from distance. Erick Green is a hot dog and not a good distributor. You see them in person and you see why we beat VT by 15 or whatever at VT. The second time with VT was a 36 hour turnaround and all that jazz.. trap game.

[UrinalCake]

If it were to end today, I think the ordering would be
Kansas
UNC
MSU
Duke


Based on the S-curve, that puts us as the #2 in Kansas's bracket, which is probably the one I'd want out of the top four.

But first things first... what scares me about our half of the ACCT is that FSU and Miami have already beaten us and VT took us to overtime. Also, in that first game our opponent will already have a game under their belt, so given our propensity for starting of slowly we could potentially fall into an early hole with the crowd against us. Better put on the big boy pants!

[davekay1971]

UNC's biggest challenge en route to the finals is likely to be NC State. UVa is simply depleted with injuries and doesn't have the horses to keep up with UNC. NC State SHOULD be a reasonably good matchup for UNC, but they haven't shown their best when matched up against their rivals. So why do I think they have any shot against the 'Heels? Because Wood has finally broken out of his shooting slump, and CJ Leslie has finally realized he should be one of the best players on the court every game he plays. For the last quarter of this season, Leslie has been very, very good. State's biggest problems against Carolina: (1) no one on State has shown they can contain Marshall; (2) Wood doesn't match up well defensively against Barnes; (3) State is thin on talented interior guys, and Howell has a hard time staying on court against Zeller, Henson, and UNC's +7 foul advantage. State has to hit on all cylinders to beat Carolina.

Duke has a tougher route, mainly because of FSU in our half of the bracket. Obviously, we can't take Va Tech or Clemson lightly, but if we play well we should find ourselves in the semis.

[uh_no]

Based on the S-curve, that puts us as the #2 in Kansas's bracket, which is probably the one I'd want out of the top four.

But first things first... what scares me about our half of the ACCT is that FSU and Miami have already beaten us and VT took us to overtime. Also, in that first game our opponent will already have a game under their belt, so given our propensity for starting of slowly we could potentially fall into an early hole with the crowd against us. Better put on the big boy pants!

THey usually do the 2's more by geography than the S curve....

so it would end up with

UK in st louis
syracuse in boston
kansas in atlanta (looks like its closer than pheonix)
unc in pheonix

then MSU in st louis
and us in atlanta, so yes we end up with kansas, unless they slot UNC in atlanta and kansas in pheonix, in which case we'd be in UNC's bracket....who knows if the committee would try to avoid that....on the other hand....it owuld be fun to play unc in the tournament some time....


SO, its very much up in the air where everyone ends up.....but if we end up a 2 seed and UNC is a 1, we're almost guaranteed to be in atlanta with either UNC or Kansas, if we're both 2's (unlikely....i think both UNC and Duke would have to lose before the finals and kansas and MSU both win), We' probably end up in St louis with UK

if we end up as the #1 seed, I think we end up in phoenix, unless we get all the up to #3 overall...which would involve beating UNC in the title game as well as MSU and kansas both losing....

I'd start buying tickets to atlanta

[throatybeard]

I can think of few events as delicious as a Wolfy upset of Carolina in the Semis. They're good for one or two of these a decade.

[UrinalCake]

Agree that NC State is a potential sleeper here. If I were reseeding the tournament based on who I'd least want to play, I'd probably put them #3 right after Carolina and us. I think their season was done in by their ridiculous scheduling stretch where they had to play us, FSU, and UNC in a six day span.

As far as the #1 seeds it's hard for me to imagine them shipping UNC off to Phoenix if they were to win the ACCT. I think it's more likely Kansas goes to Phoenix and UNC stays in Atlanta. If Kansas had a clearly dominant resume over UNC then I could see it, but otherwise I think they try to create the minimum total travel distance for all the #1's rather than the minimum distance for the first #1, then the minimum distance for the second, etc.

I don't think there's any way we end up in UNC's bracket as #1 and #2, especially since the ACC will probably only get 4 or 5 teams in. We'll probably be in the same pod though.

[uh_no]

Agree that NC State is a potential sleeper here. If I were reseeding the tournament based on who I'd least want to play, I'd probably put them #3 right after Carolina and us. I think their season was done in by their ridiculous scheduling stretch where they had to play us, FSU, and UNC in a six day span.

As far as the #1 seeds it's hard for me to imagine them shipping UNC off to Phoenix if they were to win the ACCT. I think it's more likely Kansas goes to Phoenix and UNC stays in Atlanta. If Kansas had a clearly dominant resume over UNC then I could see it, but otherwise I think they try to create the minimum total travel distance for all the #1's rather than the minimum distance for the first #1, then the minimum distance for the second, etc.

I don't think there's any way we end up in UNC's bracket as #1 and #2, especially since the ACC will probably only get 4 or 5 teams in. We'll probably be in the same pod though.

That is false. They first come up with the absolute order...then slot them one at a time. If UNC is the 4 and kansas is the 3, kansas gets atlanta.


By the time they get to actually placing teams, they've already decided the absolute order, so there is no more "well it was close so we can waffle a bit more"

[davekay1971]

I'd say there is 0% chance that Duke ends up in the same bracket as UNC (regardless of which of us is a 1 seed and which is a 2 seed). I'd say there is also a 100% chance that Duke and UNC will both play at Greensboro on Friday, March 16. So buy tickets now to help Duke out in what will basically be games in front of the Carolina faithful. (as a side note, despite the prevailing theory that the NCAA wants Duke to win at all costs, there isn't a team in America more screwed by the pod system, which has Duke as the only top seed in the nation playing in front of their arch-rivals fans on a regular basis)

Back to the ACCT, I'll be a huge Wuffie fan right through Saturday, hoping they can make their fondest dream come true, securing a spot in the NCAA Tournament by upsetting Carolina. Then their miracle run can stop as K wins yet another ACC championship. :cool:

[GoDukeDevils]

As far as the #1 seeds it's hard for me to imagine them shipping UNC off to Phoenix if they were to win the ACCT. I think it's more likely Kansas goes to Phoenix and UNC stays in Atlanta. If Kansas had a clearly dominant resume over UNC then I could see it, but otherwise I think they try to create the minimum total travel distance for all the #1's rather than the minimum distance for the first #1, then the minimum distance for the second, etc.

UK is pretty much a lock for Atlanta, as is Syracuse for Boston. At the minimum, UNC will go to St Louis but most likely Phoenix.

[uh_no]

UK is pretty much a lock for Atlanta, as is Syracuse for Boston. At the minimum, UNC will go to St Louis but most likely Phoenix.

kentucky is closer to st louis than to atlanta...but only by a few dozen miles. It depends on what number the committee has (they have a sheet with the distance of every team to every tournament site and take the smallest one when they need to choose preference)

[Olympic Fan]

I'd say there is 0% chance that Duke ends up in the same bracket as UNC (regardless of which of us is a 1 seed and which is a 2 seed). I'd say there is also a 100% chance that Duke and UNC will both play at Greensboro on Friday, March 16. So buy tickets now to help Duke out in what will basically be games in front of the Carolina faithful. (as a side note, despite the prevailing theory that the NCAA wants Duke to win at all costs, there isn't a team in America more screwed by the pod system, which has Duke as the only top seed in the nation playing in front of their arch-rivals fans on a regular basis)

Back to the ACCT, I'll be a huge Wuffie fan right through Saturday, hoping they can make their fondest dream come true, securing a spot in the NCAA Tournament by upsetting Carolina. Then their miracle run can stop as K wins yet another ACC championship. :cool:

There is a lot of confusion about the difference between NCAA Selection and Bracketing Guidelines and NCAA Selection and Bracketing Rules.

A guideline is a suggestion that the committee can modify if it wants -- for instance the geographical placement of the top seeds is dictated by guidelines. We talked in another thread about kentucky being 14 miles closer to St. Louis than Atlanta ... thus the guidelines suggest that they should be sent to St. Louis. But if the committee wanted more balance, they could put them in Atlanta to allow Kansas to play in St. Louis -- thus two seeds will get more favorable placement.

But there are dictates to protect conference teams from each other -- and those are RULES, not guidelines. One rule is that teams from the same conference cannot be seeded to meet before the reguinal finals (unless a conference has more than eight teams per conference). Another rule says that thje committee must protyect the top three seeds from a multibid conference by placing them in different regions. That rule was changed after 1979, when UNC was No. 1 and Duke No. 2 in the East.

Therefore, this is zero chance that Duke and UNC will be in ther same regional. And FSU will be in a third regional.

Now, one of Virginia or Miami or even NC State (if they make it) could be in the same regional as Duke -- but they would be in the opposite bracket.

[Matches]

Hard to imagine the Smurfs losing before Sunday - the two worst matchups for them would be FSU and Miami, and both are in the opposite bracket. NCSU on paper should be able to run with them but didn't show anything in either game with them this year. Hard to imagine UVa beating UNC.

FSU is the big loser in the draw IMO, having to go through (potentially) Miami, us and UNC. I like our 1st round draw but am not looking forward to playing a physical game on Saturday and then playing UNC on Sunday. I was worried NCSU would drop to the 7 seed and we'd end up playing them on Friday - IMO that would have been a terrible draw for us.

I think UNC is a lock for a #1 NCAAT seed unless they lose before Sunday. An earlier loss could drop them back to the 2 line.

[-bdbd]

Hard to imagine the Smurfs losing before Sunday - the two worst matchups for them would be FSU and Miami, and both are in the opposite bracket. NCSU on paper should be able to run with them but didn't show anything in either game with them this year. Hard to imagine UVa beating UNC.

FSU is the big loser in the draw IMO, having to go through (potentially) Miami, us and UNC. I like our 1st round draw but am not looking forward to playing a physical game on Saturday and then playing UNC on Sunday. I was worried NCSU would drop to the 7 seed and we'd end up playing them on Friday - IMO that would have been a terrible draw for us.

I think UNC is a lock for a #1 NCAAT seed unless they lose before Sunday. An earlier loss could drop them back to the 2 line.

I'm actually pretty OK with how the draw worked out. We already knew that FSU was the likely opponent if we made it to Sat., and so the Friday match-up is about as good a s we coulda hoped. Am rooting for the Tigers on Thursday!

Re NC@ch, I dunno if I entirely agree. Yes, you'd expect them to make it to Sunday, as with most #1 seeds, but a possible line-up of MD on Fri. and NCSU or UVA on Sat., is not all peaches and cream. MD played them real tough in College Park about 6 weeks back and I think are well coached. NCSU would be a rivalry matchup against a team on the bubble, and UVA last week took them to the final minute in Who-ville. As we saw in the women's tournament, most certainly anything is possible.

The event being in Atlanta doesn't really lend itself to a strong "home crowd" for any of the main contenders I don't think either.

BTW, I agree that FSU has a tough road.

:rolleyes:

[Wander]

These things rarely seem to put the top two teams in the finals. Duke over Clemson, Miami, and NC State to win the ACC Championship.

[jv001]

These things rarely seem to put the top two teams in the finals. Duke over Clemson, Miami, and NC State to win the ACC Championship.

I like your predictions. But State will not beat unc. They seem to choke against the ugly blue. However it didn't use to be that way. GoDuke!

[awhom111]

Here is the list of ACC network affiliates for our game Friday for people who do not have cable or need another option. If you usually get ACC network games but do not see your local station on the list, I would double-check local listings because the ACC is sometimes unreliable.

http://www.theacc.com/live/2012-acc-basketball-match-center-game-seven.html

[UrinalCake]

So who is everyone pulling for today? I want Maryland and NC State, as they have the best shot at beating Carolina. On our side I'm going with Clemson in order avoid the "revenge factor" with VTech, though neither team is a gimme. In the other game I'll root for Miami since they would tire FSU out more and possibly even beat them. FSU is a tough matchup for us with all of their size and depth.

[gumbomoop]

I'll be rooting for Pack and Canes until they play Duke. Sure like ACC to get 5-6 teams in NCAAT; 4 will feel bad. I'm pretty sure both Pack and Canes need at least 2 wins to get in. Maybe need to get to Final, in which case, Go Pack! and Go-but-not-too-far Canes!

[Slackerb]

According to Joe Ovies, the officials have KH taped to their shoes, to comemortate Karl Hess, who is protesting or something by not working the ACC tournament.

In other news, the refs have assessed two fouls already in the Maryland/WF game against Richard Howell.

[UrinalCake]

I wouldn't mind taping "KH" to the bottom of my shoes. Then I'll go traipse through the dog park.

[hurleyfor3]

I wouldn't mind taping "KH" to the bottom of my shoes. Then I'll go traipse through the dog park.

I'd tape it to the bottom of my underwear, then take a entire blister of Ex-Lax tablets washed down with Metamucil.

[nocilla]

How common is it for a team to go into halftime with more turnovers than points? (A certain 'airball' game comes to mind) BC is trying with 6 points and 7 TOs at the 10 minute mark.

*a 4 pt play changes the situation though.

[-bdbd]

State up 37-24 at the half. BC not too impressive. I'm thinking State might be on a mission this weekend - probably needing at least three wins to feel any comfort about dancing. Miami might be a real threat to upset FSU for the same reason - bubble status incentive.

Alas, no Karl Hess in Atlanta this weekend,
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/hess-not-working-acc-tournament
But apparently at his own choosing. Apparently we can look for him in Madison Square Garden this weekend instead. It'll be interesting if the other refs get into any trouble for wearing the KH letters on their sneakers during the game.

Glad to see Terps win easily over Wake, as I think they'll give NC@ch at least some kind of test potentially, if they play like they did vs 'em in College Park.

Of note, not looking so far like this is a year with a lot of mid-majors making the NCAAT, as the regular season winners (and presumed league representatives) are largely winning their tournaments. This is important to the bubble teams.

Was glad to see The Orange survive U-Con, albeit in a tight one. Anybody think the Huskies get left out at this point? Not like their 'final-10' looks very impressive...

[CDu]

I'm actually pretty OK with how the draw worked out. We already knew that FSU was the likely opponent if we made it to Sat., and so the Friday match-up is about as good a s we coulda hoped. Am rooting for the Tigers on Thursday!

Re NC@ch, I dunno if I entirely agree. Yes, you'd expect them to make it to Sunday, as with most #1 seeds, but a possible line-up of MD on Fri. and NCSU or UVA on Sat., is not all peaches and cream. MD played them real tough in College Park about 6 weeks back and I think are well coached. NCSU would be a rivalry matchup against a team on the bubble, and UVA last week took them to the final minute in Who-ville. As we saw in the women's tournament, most certainly anything is possible.

The event being in Atlanta doesn't really lend itself to a strong "home crowd" for any of the main contenders I don't think either.

BTW, I agree that FSU has a tough road.

:rolleyes:

The only thing that might have been nice would have been VT instead of Wake as the #9 seed (meaning it'd be Maryland or VT in the 1 vs 8/9 game) and Miami as the #4/5 instead of either State or UVa. I feel like Miami has better weapons overall than the other two and can actually create more matchup problems for UNC (especially if Scott, Grant, and Kadji show up).

FSU certainly got a tough draw likely having to go through Miami, Duke, and UNC/State/UVa to win it. We didn't exactly get a walk in the park either. Getting the #1 seed looks more and more valuable now.

[weezie]

I wouldn't mind taping "KH" to the bottom of my shoes. Then I'll go traipse through the dog park.

Why would the ACC decide to keep Karla out of the tourney but allow him to call what is usually the marquis match up of the league's regular season last week?
It is absurd that the remaining refs taped their shoes. Unbiased indeed. Idiots.

Give the refs pacifiers instead of whistles.

[gumbomoop]

Trivia, maybe trivial: EDT begins Sun early morn, so everyone gets a little less sleep for the final. I'm not worried about the Duke and UVa/NCS guys, but I hope I'm awake.

[CDu]

Trivia, maybe trivial: EDT begins Sun early morn, so everyone gets a little less sleep for the final. I'm not worried about the Duke and UVa/NCS guys, but I hope I'm awake.

The game isn't until 1pm. So if you aren't usually up and about by noon, well, you're partying harder than I am these days.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Trying to listen/watch the VT/Clemson game (which is quite impossible with a screaming 4 year old).

I saw Davila is on the bench and it was listed he had a groin injury.

Did they say how long he would be out?

[DukeGirl4ever]

Trying to listen/watch the VT/Clemson game (which is quite impossible with a screaming 4 year old).

I saw Davila is on the bench and it was listed he had a groin injury.

Did they say how long he would be out?

Ok, a little internet searching is a great thing! And I apologize if someone listed it earlier and I didn't have the patience to read through the whopping two pages! :p

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hokies-journal/post/injured-hokies-forward-victor-davila-will-not-play-in-acc-tournament/2012/03/07/gIQA40wRxR_blog.html

[ncexnyc]

Trying to listen/watch the VT/Clemson game (which is quite impossible with a screaming 4 year old).

I saw Davila is on the bench and it was listed he had a groin injury.

Did they say how long he would be out?
That's not screaming, your youngster is practicing cheering for the next visit to CIS:D

[DukeGirl4ever]

That's not screaming, your youngster is practicing cheering for the next visit to CIS:D

It was 70 degrees here in Pennsylvania today. Needless to say, spring fever is in the air!

She's already told me she's going to play for Duke when she gets older, so that's promising! :o

Hope the weather is just as gorgeous for all you lucky fans who get to attend the tourney!

Back on topic, this Vt/Clemson game looks bad.

[watzone]

Coaches Wojo and Capel are scouting the Clemson vs Virginia Tech game to my right. And here is a one on one interview with Duke Associate Head Coach Chris Collins. he talks of how the team preps during tournament week and more. http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/03/duke-acc-tournament-report-one-on-one-with-chris-collins/

[-jk]

Clemson is trying to choke this one away.

-jk

[NSDukeFan]

...

Alas, no Karl Hess in Atlanta this weekend,
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/hess-not-working-acc-tournament
But apparently at his own choosing. Apparently we can look for him in Madison Square Garden this weekend instead. It'll be interesting if the other refs get into any trouble for wearing the KH letters on their sneakers

Should Walt Frazier be worried he might get kicked out?

[Greg_Newton]

Miami and GT both look terrrrrible. I'm thinking FSU may not get much of a test tomorrow night.

ETA: The score's going to be like 26-23 tomorrow.

[davekay1971]

Miami and GT both look terrrrrible. I'm thinking FSU may not get much of a test tomorrow night.

ETA: The score's going to be like 26-23 tomorrow.

Agreed. On all points. These two teams look terrible, and I actually find myself agreeing with the announcers that it looks more sloppy and lackadaisical than tight or nervous. Miami really should win this, but they look bad. FSU, playing anywhere near their capacity, should win unless one of these teams catches fire in the next 24 hours.

State had a huge win today. I was unable to watch much of the game. They were sloppy at times, but started well and finished well and got a 20 point win over a bad BC team. Bigger test for them tomorrow, but it'll be fun to watch a legit ACC POY in Scott against a guy who's really been playing like he's finally realized he has the talent to be an ACC POY caliber player in Leslie.

So we get Va Tech. Hope the guys remember the struggle against VT last time out. We need to come out focused and ready, on both ends of the court. It's ACC Tournament time. That means it's Duke time.

[gumbomoop]

The game isn't until 1pm. So if you aren't usually up and about by noon, well, you're partying harder than I am these days.

Oh no, that's not me. But as I have to stay up until 2 am anyway to set my clock forward, I thought it would make sense to catch 3 great shows on the Planet Green channel - "Undiscovered Disney Parks," "Walt Disney World Resort: Behind the Scenes," and "Disney's Animal Kingdom." It's my tough luck these are on in the middle of the night right before the ACC Final, but honestly, I can't miss these.

[devildeac]

Miami and GT both look terrrrrible. I'm thinking FSU may not get much of a test tomorrow night.

ETA: The score's going to be like 26-23 tomorrow.

The GT FB team might have put more than 36 points on the board in the game last night.

[ChicagoHeel]

Henson just went down awkwardly on his left arm. Somewhat resembled the fall the kept Zeller out most of his freshman year. Please, please, pleeeasse be okay!

[devildeac]

Henson just went down awkwardly on his left arm. Somewhat resembled the fall the kept Zeller out most of his freshman year. Please, please, pleeeasse be okay!

My office manager's husband (huge pasty blue homer) has already said the ACCT doesn't matter, just the NCAAT. Now, where have I heard that before:rolleyes:?

[weezie]

Halftime of twerps-holes game, gottlieb, Williams, Torrico, all agreed: ref ted valentine overacts and it's never worth talking to him because he'll get you later.
Interesting.

[devildeac]

Halftime of twerps-holes game, gottlieb, Williams, Torrico, all agreed: ref ted valentine overacts and it's never worth talking to him because he'll get you later.
Interesting.

Is he wearing KH on his shoes:rolleyes:?

[weezie]

maybe it's tattooed as a tramp stamp

[Bluedog]

X-rays are negative on Henson. Returned to the game for like 40 seconds in the second half, but I'm sure UNC will be cautious with his return...And since Roy doesn't care about the ACC tournament, maybe he'll sit him out for the rest of it.

[UrinalCake]

For all the talk of Roy not caring about the ACCT, aren't we taking the exact same approach with Ryan? We'd definitely hold him out if it would possibly hurt his chances of playing in the NCAAT.

Tough break for UNC if he is in fact out. They've already lost Strickland and McDonald. They handled Maryland pretty easily today, which shows you how much depth and talent they have.

[MCFinARL]

X-rays are negative on Henson. Returned to the game for like 40 seconds in the second half, but I'm sure UNC will be cautious with his return...And since Roy doesn't care about the ACC tournament, maybe he'll sit him out for the rest of it.

Well, whether or not Roy cares (arguably UNC's ACC tournament performance could lock up or lose a 1 seed, which might be a reason to care), it wouldn't make a lot of sense to risk losing a player as important as Henson in the NCAA tournament by playing him hurt this weekend. So i'm guessing we will not see much of him unless they are confident playing won't make the injury worse.

Hate to see players get hurt, no matter what uniform they wear. Hope Henson's injury is not serious.

[Bluedog]

For all the talk of Roy not caring about the ACCT, aren't we taking the exact same approach with Ryan? We'd definitely hold him out if it would possibly hurt his chances of playing in the NCAAT.

I think it's more that Roy has stated explicitly that he doesn't care all that much about winning the ACC tournament and thus the conference championship. You'd never hear K say that. Coach K always wants another conference championship, and says it's a large mark of achievement. However, of course, he also believes the NCAA tournament is more important, so you don't want to risk a player in the ACC tournament if it will harm you potentially in the NCAA tournament. So, you certainly "play it safe," but also play to win. Obviously, Roy isn't intentionally going to tell his team to lose and wants to win every game..but it's just a bit fun to mock Roy slightly based on his rhetoric, no? ;) I'm mostly joking, though. Definitely don't like to see any player get hurt either. Maybe I'm overcompensating since I got some negative comments for being too positive to UNC players in the past, ha!

[dukelifer]

For all the talk of Roy not caring about the ACCT, aren't we taking the exact same approach with Ryan? We'd definitely hold him out if it would possibly hurt his chances of playing in the NCAAT.

Tough break for UNC if he is in fact out. They've already lost Strickland and McDonald. They handled Maryland pretty easily today, which shows you how much depth and talent they have.

I think Roy has openly said he does not care- Nothing about how K has approached the ACC tourney suggests he does not care.

In 2009 he said: "It's what it is," Williams told reporters in March 2009. "I said it's for money, said it's the biggest cocktail party. It's still a party, I don't care what anybody says. It's a party to make money. ... I loved it as a fan, I don't love it as much as a coach with the attention the other tournament gets and the emphasis we try and put on it.”

When UNC loses a player there is another McDonald's All American in the wings. That is the definition of deep.

[TruBlu]

Roy doesn't "care" that much about the ACC tournament when unc-ch loses in the tournament.

If unc-ch wins the tournament, he "cares" about it a great deal.

I hope he ends up NOT "caring" about it again this year.

[UrinalCake]

I honestly think his comments are a little overblown. For an outsider who doesn't understand the history of the tournament, I can see how it might be perceived as a "party," at least in the sense that the winner is a lot more of a crapshoot than the winner of the regular season. The format is so different from what you experience during the season and even during the NCAAT. I don't think that means that Roy doesn't care about it or doesn't want to win it. Just my opinion though.

[The Gordog]

I honestly think his comments are a little overblown. For an outsider who doesn't understand the history of the tournament, I can see how it might be perceived as a "party," at least in the sense that the winner is a lot more of a crapshoot than the winner of the regular season. The format is so different from what you experience during the season and even during the NCAAT. I don't think that means that Roy doesn't care about it or doesn't want to win it. Just my opinion though.

While that was probably true when we had 8 or 9 teams, since expansion to 12 the exact opposite is now quite certainly true, IMHO, due to the unbalanced scheduling.

[hurleyfor3]

One of the espn's (I forget which; spending the day flipping between them) ran a phone chat with Roy about an hour ago. He was making comments about the acc tournament having lost its luster and not being as important as it was 20-30 years ago when Dean Smith wasn't winning them either. Just another backhanded dis at those of us who care about it.

I tried looking for the conversation on espn's web site but can't find it.

[dukelifer]

I honestly think his comments are a little overblown. For an outsider who doesn't understand the history of the tournament, I can see how it might be perceived as a "party," at least in the sense that the winner is a lot more of a crapshoot than the winner of the regular season. The format is so different from what you experience during the season and even during the NCAAT. I don't think that means that Roy doesn't care about it or doesn't want to win it. Just my opinion though.

Not sure you can count Roy as an outsider. Also the winner is rarely a crapshoot. Not sure who would think that for the ACC tourney. I am not sure who was the last seed lower than 4 to win it all. Right now the winner of the ACC regular season does not play the same schedule as the second best team. It is not clear you can always separate the two or three top teams in a conference. Duke's overtime loss to Miami was the difference this year.

[throatybeard]

Not sure you can count Roy as an outsider. Also the winner is rarely a crapshoot. Not sure who would think that for the ACC tourney. I am not sure who was the last seed lower than 4 to win it all. Right now the winner of the ACC regular season does not play the same schedule as the second best team. It is not clear you can always separate the two or three top teams in a conference. Duke's overtime loss to Miami was the difference this year.

Five six seeds have won it, I think. Virginia 1976, Duke 1980, State 1987, Georgia Tech 1993...and I just had to look the last one up, it was Maryland when we blew that lead against them in 2004. I'm mildly sure no five seed has won.

And yeah, you're right. Roy ain't no outsider. Dean Smith raised him from a pup.

[MaxAMillion]

One of the espn's (I forget which; spending the day flipping between them) ran a phone chat with Roy about an hour ago. He was making comments about the acc tournament having lost its luster and not being as important as it was 20-30 years ago when Dean Smith wasn't winning them either. Just another backhanded dis at those of us who care about it.

I tried looking for the conversation on espn's web site but can't find it.

I agree with him except I would go a step further and say that ACC basketball has lost luster and is not as entertaining since it expanded. I really don't care about BC or Miami. Adding those teams to the conference made the league less interesting for me. I used to love to watch the ACC tournament. Now, I only watch Duke play.

[-bdbd]

NCSU by 3 over UVA - final. CJ Leslie had a monster game, and Brown was big too. Now on to NC@ch for the first game on Sat.

I like this matchup b/c (1) It is a rivalry game; and (2) State is really motivated, by being on the bubble. I think this win gets them in, but who knows...:D

[JNort]

NC State just strengthened their hopes of a NCAA bid beating UVA 67-64. I feel sorry for anyone who plays State in the first round because they have a starting 5 who can compete with most teams in the country not to mention CJ Leslie has been IMO the best player in the ACC since he walked in to Cameron this year.

[Greg_Newton]

You know, I don't think UVA makes the tournament. They're 9-7 in the ACC, 9-8 including the tourney, 7-7 since Sene was lost for the season, and 4-6 in their last 10. Their good win against UM was in November.

NCSU might have just taken their spot...

[devildeac]

Multiple reasons NCSU will not win tomorrow:

1. Leslie and Brown already have 2 PF.
2. unc starts the game shooting 1&1 as NCSU has already been whistled for 7 PF.
3. Rumors have El Sid in the arena tomorrow with the red jacket.
4. Gugliotta and Corchianni have already been ejected.
5. Henson has been spotted already at a nearby arena practicing his best rim-hanging celebratory dunk routine.
6. karl hess' flight arrives at Hartsfield tonight at 10 PM.
7. They just can't beat unc.

:(:mad:

(Did I miss any?)

[TruBlu]

Multiple reasons NCSU will not win tomorrow:

1. Leslie and Brown already have 2 PF.
2. unc starts the game shooting 1&1 as NCSU has already been whistled for 7 PF.
3. Rumors have El Sid in the arena tomorrow with the red jacket.
4. Gugliotta and Corchianni have already been ejected.
5. Henson has been spotted already at a nearby arena practicing his best rim-hanging celebratory dunk routine.
6. karl hess' flight arrives at Hartsfield tonight at 10 PM.
7. They just can't beat unc.

:(:mad:

(Did I miss any?)

8. Lenny Wertz is coming out of retirement to join Hess.
9. Henson is well rested after sitting out the second half, and the unc-ch miracle medical recovery will mean he gets a triple-double.

[dukelifer]

Five six seeds have won it, I think. Virginia 1976, Duke 1980, State 1987, Georgia Tech 1993...and I just had to look the last one up, it was Maryland when we blew that lead against them in 2004. I'm mildly sure no five seed has won.

And yeah, you're right. Roy ain't no outsider. Dean Smith raised him from a pup.

Other than 2004- it has been a long while since the low seeds have won it.

[CDu]

You know, I don't think UVA makes the tournament. They're 9-7 in the ACC, 9-8 including the tourney, 7-7 since Sene was lost for the season, and 4-6 in their last 10. Their good win against UM was in November.

NCSU might have just taken their spot...

I think they're still in, though the loss today should make them uneasy. They'll still be top-50 in RPI, and they still won 22 games. And there just aren't enough bubble teams with a resume good enough to bump them.

[WakeDevil]

You know, I don't think UVA makes the tournament. They're 9-7 in the ACC, 9-8 including the tourney, 7-7 since Sene was lost for the season, and 4-6 in their last 10. Their good win against UM was in November.

NCSU might have just taken their spot...

The bracket matrix has them on every sheet.

[Greg_Newton]

I think they're still in, though the loss today should make them uneasy. They'll still be top-50 in RPI, and they still won 22 games. And there just aren't enough bubble teams with a resume good enough to bump them.

Would you put them in over NCSU and Miami?

[CDu]

Would you put them in over NCSU and Miami?

Well, it doesn't matter what I'd do. I have no doubt that the committee will. I think State and Miami are better teams at this point. But the committee will put UVa in ahead of both.

[hurleyfor3]

Put it this way: Unc needs to lose tomorrow for the good of the conference. Come on, Roy, in your heart you know you don't give a crap about this tournament.

[davekay1971]

I'm excited for the moment tomorrow when Henson comes out in an arm sling. Just as State makes a run, he gets up off the bench, takes off the sling. The Carolina faithful take a collective gasp. A moment of silence as he gangles to the scorer's table to check in. Miracle occurs as he runs onto the court. The Carolina faithful erupt in joy. The arm moves as if never injured at all. Carolina stops the State run. The skies turn Carolina blue and the angels sing in harmonious joy.

[Native]

Durand Scott deemed ineligible by the NCAA for receiving improper benefits? Has the board picked up on this yet? Just announced in the Miami/FSU pre game.

[chaosmage]

EDIT: n/m - beat me to it.

[CDu]

Pulling hard for Miami tonight. On top of being the lower seed and having to play a third time in three days, they'd be without their best guard Durand Scott. Sure, Johnson and Kadji are tough to handle inside and outside. But I'll take our chances against their guards without Scott.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Miami looks bad. Hope they find a way, but they look horrible right now. I hope they prove me wrong.

[CDu]

Miami looks bad. Hope they find a way, but they look horrible right now. I hope they prove me wrong.

They're allowing too many open 3s and too many second chance points. And FSU is making them pay by hitting a ton of those shots.

They can still do it. They can get hot quickly, and FSU can certainly go cold from the field. Gotta hope for that.

[jv001]

Miami looks bad. Hope they find a way, but they look horrible right now. I hope they prove me wrong.

Makes me proud that we don't have trouble with the NCAA like so many teams do. And I agree Miami looks horrible but FSU has something to do with that. Maybe they(FSU) gets it out of their system tonight. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

I'm hoping for a 3 or 4 OT game with a 88-87 final that concludes about 1230 AM;).

[CDu]

And FSU handles their business against Miami. It wasn't pretty, and Miami made it interesting in the second half. But they couldn't get it closer than 3 before finally falling off with some costly mistakes in the final 3 minutes. I was hoping Miami would win, but it wasn't meant to be. The loss of Scott was probably pretty costly for them. He can be such a force with the ball in his hands.

The silver lining? We get a chance to beat another RPI top-25 team away from home tomorrow and further pad our already impressive tournament resume. It's going to be a tough, physical game much like today's game was. FSU is much better than VT defensively, but they're actually worse offensively. Hopefully we can shoot better than we did tonight and get to Sunday.

[davekay1971]

Biggest game for NC State in recent memory today. While they are currently in the "Last 4 in" category in most projections, there are a lot of potential spoilers out there (Arizona or Colorado will move in front of them today, Old Miss could, Mass could, etc). If State is feeling at all comfortable where they are, they're kidding themselves. As Andy Glockner put it, today's Carolina game is "win and they're in, lose and it's 50/50" for State.

So, biggest rivals, a chance to play for the ACC Championship, a chance to lock up an NCAA tournament bid...not much on the line for a program picked to finish as low as number 8 in the ACC. Biggest game for State since the 2007 ACC Championship game? I'd say so.

Breaking it down, NC State has a much, much better chance if Henson is out. Henson is capable of shutting down or at least limiting State's most talented player. Without Henson, UNC is going to have serious trouble matching up against Leslie...and Leslie has been playing very, very well lately.

Otherwise, though, the matchups still favor UNC at virtually every position. No one on State has been able to contain Marshall, who not only has managed to get open looks for the other Tarheels, he's also scored well. I would think Brown could do better, but he hasn't yet.

CJ Williams has been in a bad scoring slump. If he can find the range, that will help.

Wood against Barnes is a poor matchup for State. Barnes is athletic enough to get looks against Wood. Wood, however, can be limited by Barnes IF Barnes puts in the effort to keep close to him when Wood makes his cuts to try to clear space for 3 point shots.

On the interior, Howell starts the game with 2 fouls, has to contend with a taller player in Zeller. Zeller might have had more trouble with a guy as strong as Howell earlier in his career. Zeller's a lot stronger now and can hold his own in the lane.

The benches are probably not much of an advantage on either side. Carolina has much more talent on the bench, but it's hard to argue that Carolina's bench has been significantly more productive than State's this season.

All that leaves Leslie as the only clear advantage State has, and that's only as long as Henson is out. State may have a motivation advantage, but I don't like what I was hearing from them on Friday, all the talk of how they thought they'd probably earned their spot by beating Virginia. I would have preferred them blowing off all that speculation and talking more about the need to focus on their next game, a rivalry game, taking another step toward the ACC championship, etc. Add in the seeming mental block State has where Carolina is concerned, the matchup problems noted above, and I'd see a State win today as a big, big upset...even if Henson doesn't play.

[throatybeard]

Apparently Roy's clothes are all at the cleaners, because his blazer is clearly borrowed from Sylvia Hatchell.

[chaosmage]

I know it's early, but it is obviously a difference defensively without Henson. I am not sure re: NCSU depth, but I wonder if they can pound it in enough to get Z in foul trouble.

[hurleyfor3]

It's weird not to have the Saturday games start at 1.30 Eastern. The first game shouldn't have started yet.

[chaosmage]

It's weird not to have the Saturday games start at 1.30 Eastern. The first game shouldn't have started yet.

Grew up out east, imagine the games starting at 10:00? Only plus is I'm not exhausted after the 9PM games, since they start at 6.

Even more interesting is using Sirius to keep up with games, and they always use the hometown's radio network. It's funny how much people think we get away with, since we get all the calls.:D

[davekay1971]

I know it's early, but it is obviously a difference defensively without Henson. I am not sure re: NCSU depth, but I wonder if they can pound it in enough to get Z in foul trouble.

I like the thought, but you KNOW that there is zero (0) chance that Zeller will get in foul trouble today. If Zeller steps on court with a shiv in his sock and sticks it in Howell's liver, Howell will be called for the foul and assessed a technical for bleeding on Zeller.

[hurleyfor3]

I demand Brunette Erin.

[devildeac]

I demand Brunette Erin.

Forget about hair color. Conjure up your images of her and post about her from her half-time interview with Chris Collins from last weekend:rolleyes:;).

[davekay1971]

I demand Brunette Erin.

Mike Hogewood and his amazing jowls aren't doing it for you?

[davekay1971]

First time in awhile I've seen State playing like they actually believe they can beat Carolina. They have a completely different attitude than the already-beaten demeanor they've brought onto the court the last few times they played Carolina. Leslie is playing incredibly well, but Brown has had a nice first half, too.

We'll see how they begin the 2nd half. I can't get my hopes up yet. State has to get it done with Howell playing about 5-8 minutes in the second half, and Williams and Leslie destined to pick up their fourth fouls right at about the 10 minute mark.

[devildeac]

Mike Hogewood and his amazing jowls aren't doing it for you?

Isn't that Hogwood:rolleyes:;).

[davekay1971]

Isn't that Hogwood:rolleyes:;).

If it ain't, it ought to be. The guy looks like he might end up being an ER consult for you the next time the ACC tournament is in your neck of the woods.

[davekay1971]

I'm with Roy. I'm stunned too that, after approximately 30 years of Carolina guys pushing the opposition in the back to get the offensive rebounds, Zeller was called for it just now. Ridiculous! Is it too much to ask for consistency from the refs?

[CDu]

Danger time for State. UNC is on a 9-0 run to take a 2-point lead. State looks lost out there. Just taking bad shots around the perimeter, afraid to pass the ball or attack the basket.

[CDu]

Tough makeup call on State. Brown ran over Barnes but they called a blocking foul. So then on the next play, Howell backs down Barnes, Barnes flops and gets the makeup call. 4th foul on Howell.

[davekay1971]

Composure needed. Barnes flops gratuitously and the refs obligingly put Howell on the bench, then Painter gets punished for having the lack of decency to stand up straight in front of Zeller. Clutch 3 by Johnson. State's going to have to weather the 5-8 storm, play smart, and get back to attacking the basket (especially Leslie) the way they were in the first half.

[FerryFor50]

Composure needed. Barnes flops gratuitously and the refs obligingly put Howell on the bench, then Painter gets punished for having the lack of decency to stand up straight in front of Zeller. Clutch 3 by Johnson. State's going to have to weather the 5-8 storm, play smart, and get back to attacking the basket (especially Leslie) the way they were in the first half.

That will teach Painter to flop instead of trying to play D!

[Newton_14]

I don't understand all the talk about UNC having depth? All of their depth is dressed in street clothes. Their current bench consists of PJ Hairston and Justin Watts. Thats it. Stillman White and Desmond Hubert play at most 4 mpg. I do not consider either guy as a quality reserve.

State has fought back. This may go down to the wire...

[FerryFor50]

This 2nd half officiating has been more like the ACC officiating we're all used to.

[sporthenry]

This 2nd half officiating has been more like the ACC officiating we're all used to.

Yeah, Len Elmore amazes me. When Zeller draws fouls, its just him being good at it and playing heady, but with Duke its flopping.

[CDu]

State gets a nice break there. Leslie travelled underneath, but got away with and got the 3-point play and Zeller's 3rd foul.

[cbarry]

State just doesn't have the talent to compete with UNC. I honestly don't think anyone does right now, unfortunately. I really hope we don't have to play UNC in the finals of the ACC.

[FerryFor50]

State gets a nice break there. Leslie travelled underneath, but got away with and got the 3-point play and Zeller's 3rd foul.

Well they screwed him the next time after he got bumped off his feet and then got called for a walk.

[CDu]

NC State is just not a disciplined team. They seem to commit a LOT of dumb fouls.

[FerryFor50]

State just doesn't have the talent to compete with UNC. I honestly don't think anyone does right now, unfortunately. I really hope we don't have to play UNC in the finals of the ACC.

I'd take a Henson-less UNC any day. I'm more worried about FSU than this UNC team.

[CDu]

Well they screwed him the next time after he got bumped off his feet and then got called for a walk.

I think more accurately he jumped into two guys and knocked himself off balance. And then traveled.

[FerryFor50]

NC State is just not a disciplined team. They seem to commit a LOT of dumb fouls.

They let the emotions get to them. It's like they buy into the "refs are out to get us" mentality.

[FerryFor50]

Wow. Non call on the Painter flop. But a charge on the Watts flop. They really need to get rid of that in the college game.

[CoachJ10]

This 2nd half officiating has been more like the ACC officiating we're all used to.

I'd love to hear Googs and Corchiani right about now.

[CDu]

That would have been a backbreaking alley oop. Thankfully it didn't connect. State REALLY needs to score here.

[sporthenry]

And thats the ball game. Nice to hear the fans at least recognize the obvious. Its funny/sad to watch the ACC ruin a good game.

[CDu]

Dumb dumb foul by Leslie. I think that's the ballgame.

[FerryFor50]

State's done. Leslie is out on a pretty questionable pair of calls.

The last foul was frustration after not getting the call the last time down. If he could reign in his emotions, he'd be unstoppable.

[CDu]

Well, maybe they aren't dead yet. Possible 3 point play to cut it to 3. With Howell with 4 fouls and Leslie gone, it's gonna be a tough ride for the last 7 minutes.

[CDu]

State's done. Leslie is out on a pretty questionable pair of calls.

The last foul was frustration after not getting the call the last time down. If he could reign in his emotions, he'd be unstoppable.

Yup. He is an unbelievable talent, but just plays completely out of control at times, and loses his composure. Howell is a less gifted player (though still good) who makes dumb fouls and also loses his composure. It's a bad combination when you're a short-benched team.

[FerryFor50]

Well, maybe they aren't dead yet. Possible 3 point play to cut it to 3. With Howell with 4 fouls and Leslie gone, it's gonna be a tough ride for the last 7 minutes.

Howell will be out soon. Guaranteed.

Unless Wood can start hitting those 30 foot bombs and UNC has a meltdown, this game's just about done.

Zeller will take over and UNC will ride him to the finals.

[chaosmage]

Even Len Elmore agreed with the fact that some of the calls are bad .. sheesh.

[sporthenry]

I guess as an emotional fan it comes off irrational but I think in games like this the coach should just ride the players who got him here with 4 fouls and when they undoubtedly foul out with 8 minutes left, you can just ask the refs why you have 3 guys fouled out with 8 minutes left. I remember the Wake Forest game 4 years ago when Duke fouled out their starting 5. At least gives the announcers something to talk about with regards to fouls.

[davekay1971]

I'd love to hear Googs and Corchiani right about now.

You can't. They were just thrown out of the arena, in honor of KH.

[loran16]

To State's Credit, they don't change their play when they're in foul trouble. No Fear.

To State's Detriment, they don't change their play when they're in foul trouble. Not enough fear.

We've seen this very thing before. I think State has gotten gipped by the calls, but they don't have a deep enough roster to survive when that happens.

[Newton_14]

Composure needed. Barnes flops gratuitously and the refs obligingly put Howell on the bench, then Painter gets punished for having the lack of decency to stand up straight in front of Zeller. Clutch 3 by Johnson. State's going to have to weather the 5-8 storm, play smart, and get back to attacking the basket (especially Leslie) the way they were in the first half.

I think State is getting royaly screwed by the refs. The 5th on Leslie was just a terrible call. If anyone fouled Barnes there it was Painter. Leslie took the ball cleanly at the top and never touched Barnes that I could tell. It's a tough road for State w/o Leslie...

[FerryFor50]

Yup. He is an unbelievable talent, but just plays completely out of control at times, and loses his composure. Howell is a less gifted player (though still good) who makes dumb fouls and also loses his composure. It's a bad combination when you're a short-benched team.

I don't see Howell lose it as much. He just makes dumb decisions.

Leslie... you can tell when it's about to happen. He stares down the ref after every possession when he thinks they miss a call... which is every possession.

[CDu]

Howell will be out soon. Guaranteed.

Unless Wood can start hitting those 30 foot bombs and UNC has a meltdown, this game's just about done.

Zeller will take over and UNC will ride him to the finals.

The nice thing about Henson being out is that State can hide Howell on McAdoo. Couldn't do that if Henson was in.

[Devilsfan]

Refs just beat NCSU! Talk about illegal motives in sports. When refs call a game like this, it makes one wonder. Could this be the Karl Hess banishment revenge?

[CDu]

Zeller now out with 4 fouls. State HAS to take advantage.

[kmspeaks]

[sarcasm]Glad to see during one of those time outs that somebody let the refs know Carolina couldn't stop CJ Leslie. They got him out of there real quick. Good work boys....KH would be proud.[/end sarcasm]

[FerryFor50]

The nice thing about Henson being out is that State can hide Howell on McAdoo. Couldn't do that if Henson was in.

Their only hope is that Howell can get Zeller to foul out.

[sporthenry]

Wow have to give State credit. Showing the fight they haven't shown much of this year. Also nice to see HB show his true colors, just settle for 3's.

[CDu]

That's a horrible call on a Hairston flop. I'm amazed that Duke has a reputation for flopping.

[FerryFor50]

And another offensive foul call bails out the Heels.

Sigh.

[loran16]

Can I get a replay on that foul right before the TV Timeout? It looked like the UNC Player slipped and then grabbed the State player, but they called it offensive? Didn't see any push there

[kmspeaks]

Can I get a replay on that foul right before the TV Timeout? It looked like the UNC Player slipped and then grabbed the State player, but they called it offensive? Didn't see any push there

You want a replay on a call that went Carolina's way??? Don't hold your breath.

[FerryFor50]

Can I get a replay on that foul right before the TV Timeout? It looked like the UNC Player slipped and then grabbed the State player, but they called it offensive? Didn't see any push there

lol

You seriously think UNC is going to get a replay on a call they got?

Now if it were Duke, that would be on Youtube already.

[CDu]

Can I get a replay on that foul right before the TV Timeout? It looked like the UNC Player slipped and then grabbed the State player, but they called it offensive? Didn't see any push there

Hairston jumped in front of Brown who was crossing over. Very slight contact and then he flopped. It was a bad call.

[sporthenry]

That's a horrible call on a Hairston flop. I'm amazed that Duke has a reputation for flopping.

Yeah, Duke has had some flops in the past. Paulus vs. VCU and Kelly continues to flop but UNC is certainly surpassing them this year. Something that is really interesting is that K constantly says that he hates how the game is called and the amount of charges. Perhaps its just him realizing he has to change his style to succeed.

[loran16]

Zeller just got away with foul #5 on that latest defensive stop inside. Obviously no call.

EDIT: Is there a worse shooting option than fake the 3, get the defender in the air, step INSIDE the 3 point line and then shooting an off balance unguarded fadeaway?

[sporthenry]

Zeller really must have taken lessons from Hansbrough this summer. He just flails his arms all over the place and the refs buy into it.

[CDu]

Lorenzo Brown, show why you're all ACC!

[gus]

Harrison Barnes is not a very smart basketball player, is he?

[FerryFor50]

So I think it's pretty clear that State's demeanor has been mostly CJ Leslie's doing. They've really fought through the whistles and back into this without Leslie and his bad attitude.

And down goes Zeller!

[CDu]

Zeller really must have taken lessons from Hansbrough this summer. He just flails his arms all over the place and the refs buy into it.

In fairness, that was absolutely a foul on Wood.

Zeller fouls out!

[loran16]

Zeller clearly with the over the back - Len Elmore apologizing rofl - and State has their best chance they could get.

[sporthenry]

Harrison Barnes is not a very smart basketball player, is he?

It is pretty crazy he is a projected top 5 or top 3 draft pick. For all of his potential, he just sits on the perimeter and never gets to the rim.

[pamtar]

Zeller out! Woofies up one. Go pack!

[CoachJ10]

Tyler Zeller...see ya! (and Len Elmore can't hide his displeasure)...

[loran16]

And a SUPER SUPER LATE call on Wood, bails out Barnes. Wood did nothing.

Fortunately, Barnes misses the FT.

[FerryFor50]

Now Barnes is flopping on shots.

And McAdoo stepped IN to that screen on Johnson. Was not stationary....

[CDu]

Now Barnes is flopping on shots.

And McAdoo stepped IN to that screen on Johnson. Was not stationary....

In fairness, that's never called these days. That one is not UNC bias. The "foul" on Barnes' shot was much more shady.

[FerryFor50]

In fairness, that's never called these days. That one is not UNC bias. The "foul" on Barnes was much more shady.

It should be. It's dangerous.

[Devilsfan]

Poor State, trying to beat Carolina and the officials. Tough call.

[loran16]

Wow. What a turnover. Just.....wow.

[sporthenry]

Even Len Elmore on the bandwagon.

[FerryFor50]

Can NOT believe the non call on that Kendall Marshall drive.

[CDu]

Man, State just likes to lose I guess.

Marshall gets away with a charge (at least as much a charge as Leslie's 5th foul).

[chaosmage]

Are you kidding me???

[loran16]

How is that not a foul! Even len elmore is upset!

[sporthenry]

I have some respect that Gottfried hasn't thrown a chair across the court. I would chase the refs down after this game. But I guess that is why I'm not a coach.

[CDu]

That's the exact same play that Leslie fouled out on.

[CajunDevil]

You have to make that charge call on Marshall... horrible

[Zeke]

Can NOT believe the non call on that Kendall Marshall drive.

This is why I have been beating the drum for tighter ref calls. You can't make it a judgement, because everyone doesn't see it the same way - if there is contact then it's a foul.

[gwlaw99]

I just wanted to point out that Duke gets all the calls and UNC never does.

[FerryFor50]

That's the exact same play that Leslie fouled out on.

Actually that was Leslie's 4th. His 5th was on the blocked shot.

[pamtar]

State just got molested by the refs. Pretty sure Watts was out of bounds too.

[amazinballer323]

I'm just sayin if they're gonna fix it so Carolina gets there, we better get there

[FerryFor50]

Wow, Howell didn't get fouled there, did he?

[CDu]

Actually that was Leslie's 4th. His 5th was on the blocked shot.

Doh! You're right.

Just some crappy crappy officiating out there. I really can't believe it.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Poor State.

I don't think the reffing at the end was too bad, just heart-breaking.

[kmspeaks]

Wow, Howell didn't get fouled there, did he?

Barnes held him when the pass was in the air and then (was it Bullock) hooked his arm when he tried to put a shot up.

[plimnko]

wow!!! i'm just speechless.....from touch foul to no foul.

[Duke76]

That was the most blatant, biased 3 minutes of calls I have ever seen,,,! Unbelievable

[FerryFor50]

Poor State.

I don't think the reffing at the end was too bad, just heart-breaking.

So you must have been getting chips when Hairston flopped.

And taking a leak when Leslie picked up #4 and 5.

And flipping between this and the Kentucky game when Marshall didn't get called for a charge on the game winner.

And I have no idea WHERE you were when Howell got fouled on the potential buzzer beater.

[gus]

Poor State.

I don't think the reffing at the end was too bad, just heart-breaking.

State turned it over twice (almost three times) in the last 45 seconds. You can't do that and expect to win.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Raleigh is going to secede from the state after that mess!

And while I'm at it, nothing makes me more irate than listening to announcers side with a bad call. G-man or not, I can't stand it.

[CoachJ10]

a.) everything else aside, nc state made some bad plays in the last minute. you can't expect to win...without making winning plays.

b.) the acc just deserves better than their current set of officials. simple as that.

(and if we need further evidence...Digger Phelps is on the other side...case closed)

[Devilsfan]

Digger's an idiot. Time to put him out to pasture! Isn't the head of the ACC a Carolina guy? Ultimately determine the refs? Enough said. Poor State!

[_Gary]

Wow, the refs were bad, but so was NC State. Shades of Georgetown and Michigan with those inexplicable stupid plays that UNC had nothing to do with. Nothing could be finer than being L-U-C-K-Y like Carolina. I've said it for decades and I'll say it again: I've never seen a team benefit from more laydowns and brain freezes from the opposing team than I have the Tarheels. Not Kentucky. Not UCLA. Not UConn. Not Indiana. Certainly not Duke. Nope. UNC has gotten more gift-wrapped games given to them, especially tourney games, than any team in history as far as I'm concerned.

[cspan37421]

What a gift.

I only saw the last few minutes but:

Wood didn't foul.
Marshall did charge.
UNC may have been out of bounds on that intercepted pass under the basket (need a better view, sure looked like it)
NCSt got fouled on the last attempted shot.

Several missed calls all UNC's way.

Good thing David Stern isn't head of the ACC; Gottfried would be getting fined already.

It's wise to be very selective in blaming refs for a loss, otherwise you look like a whiner/sore loser. But it appeared to me that NCSt could make a good case that they got jobbed.

[mapei]

The State guy threw the ball away, unfortunately. Can't blame that on anyone else. But if I'm a State fan, I have every right to be angry.

And, BTW, I hate Digger Phelps. Why should it matter that Marshall plowed into him with the shoulder rather than the chest if the defender had good position?

[FerryFor50]

a.) everything else aside, nc state made some bad plays in the last minute. you can't expect to win...without making winning plays.

b.) the acc just deserves better than their current set of officials. simple as that.

(and if we need further evidence...Digger Phelps is on the other side...case closed)

They definitely made some bad plays. But so did Carolina.

That's the difference officiating makes - when both teams play pretty evenly, the team that gets the calls wins the game.

[hudlow]

Why do I keep thinking things will ever change...?

[ben2012]

The no-call on Marshall was the worst. He lowered his shoulder flattened him like a steamroller.

[CDu]

Raleigh is going to secede from the state after that mess!

And while I'm at it, nothing makes me more irate than listening to announcers side with a bad call. G-man or not, I can't stand it.

Kudos to Alexander for talking about it after the game. He pointed out that the no-call on Marshall was called several times earlier. That's about as far as I think you'll ever see the announcers go in questioning the officials. Well, outside of Elmore and Packer.

[brumby041]

I don't think the reffing at the end was too bad, just heart-breaking.

Seriously?

1. Pretty obvious charge
2. Should have been no basket and 2 FT for State
3. The UNC player appeared to be out-of-bounds under the State basket with about 4 seconds to go.
4. The State player got hacked pretty good on the final "shot".

I'd say that the reffing there at the end was really bad...

I wonder where the "Carowhina gets all the calls" meme comes from?

[#1Duke]

UNC and State... WOW!! Take it easy on the refs guys.... we benefited on some no calls too.... I could name them if you like.
Marshall and the no charge probably could have gone either way. State's defender leaned into him and was moving laterally at point of contact.
Barnes didn't look very good and why he didn't penetrate to foul out 3 defenders with 4 fouls each is beyond me.
They missed Henson to say the least.
Hat's off to State, they played tough and hard.

[FellowTraveler]

Gottfried's postgame presser should be on Pay Per View.

[CLW]

Maybe there is something to all those Pack fan "conspiracy theories"? Hard to argue against after the "officiating" in that game.

[devildeac]

I can't imagine what wolfpack nation is like now.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That danged pass to under the basket was about .5 seconds too late. Also, that UNC lob to the other end of the court was pretty smart basketball.

[turnandburn55]

State turned it over twice (almost three times) in the last 45 seconds. You can't do that and expect to win.

Agreed. You turn the ball over out of a timeout with less than a minute in the game, no pressure on the ball, you deserve to lose.

I think the Marshall charge could have gone either way, but as a defender, you have to know the situation. Like it or not, the refs traditionally swallow their whistle in late-game situations. Not saying he "flopped"... but my first thought was "that's a hell of gamble to bet on the refs to call an offensive foul there".

[FerryFor50]

Seriously?

1. Pretty obvious charge
2. Should have been no basket and 2 FT for State
3. The UNC player appeared to be out-of-bounds under the State basket with about 4 seconds to go.
4. The State player got hacked pretty good on the final "shot".

I'd say that the reffing there at the end was really bad...

I wonder where the "Carowhina gets all the calls" meme comes from?

Only point I disagree with is #2. Player control/charges do not get FTs.

[Wander]

Digger Phelps thinks that if the defender is standing at an angle, the offensive player is allowed to take out a shotgun and shoot him in the face.

[FerryFor50]

Agreed. You turn the ball over out of a timeout with less than a minute in the game, no pressure on the ball, you deserve to lose.

I think the Marshall charge could have gone either way, but as a defender, you have to know the situation. Like it or not, the refs traditionally swallow their whistle in late-game situations. Not saying he "flopped"... but my first thought was "that's a hell of gamble to bet on the refs to call an offensive foul there".

To be fair, if Johnson doesn't flop, he probably gets called for a shooting foul. It's a no-win situation.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Agreed. You turn the ball over out of a timeout with less than a minute in the game, no pressure on the ball, you deserve to lose.

I think the Marshall charge could have gone either way, but as a defender, you have to know the situation. Like it or not, the refs traditionally swallow their whistle in late-game situations. Not saying he "flopped"... but my first thought was "that's a hell of gamble to bet on the refs to call an offensive foul there".

Well, if you watch the reply, Marshall clearly lowered his shoulder and initiated significant contact.

[CDu]

UNC and State... WOW!! Take it easy on the refs guys.... we benefited on some no calls too.... I could name them if you like.
Marshall and the no charge probably could have gone either way. State's defender leaned into him and was moving laterally at point of contact.
Barnes didn't look very good and why he didn't penetrate to foul out 3 defenders with 4 fouls each is beyond me.
They missed Henson to say the least.
Hat's off to State, they played tough and hard.

It was as much a charge as Leslie's 4th foul. It was more of a charge than the foul on Brown when Hairston flopped. If those others were charges, that was absolutely a charge.

[_Gary]

To be fair, if Johnson doesn't flop, he probably gets called for a shooting foul. It's a no-win situation.

Agreed. I was thinking the exact same thing. At that point in the play, with Marshall driving that deep, he really had no choice. To do anything else would have been a foul call on him.

[MCFinARL]

That was just painful and upsetting, between the State errors and the terrible calls. (Not usually a State fan but the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that.) Agreed, can't blame the outcome on the refs because State made some key mistakes at the end, but it's still bad to see bad calls at the end of a close game.

[brumby041]

Only point I disagree with is #2. Player control/charges do not get FTs.

You're right...my bad.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I guess I just am really hesitant to blame the refs for any particular game. Too much yammering about Duke getting all the calls.

However, I anticipate the NC State coach will not sit quietly at this point. He's felt victimized all season - sometimes with reason.

State can blame themselves for two HORRIBLE turnovers in the final minute. Or, they can blame Karl Hess.

Regardless, I feel for State fans. Heartbreaking way to lose. Now then, let's take care of FSU and take a rubbermatch with the Tar Heels.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It was as much a charge as Leslie's 4th foul. It was more of a charge than the foul on Brown when Hairston flopped. If those others were charges, that was absolutely a charge.

Exactly. If it's a foul with 5 minutes to go, it's a foul with 5 seconds to go. Shouldn't matter. Period.

[arnie]

I can't imagine what wolfpack nation is like now.

They're playing the victiim card and blaming the officials for our future win over FSU.

[sporthenry]

Digger Phelps thinks that if the defender is standing at an angle, the offensive player is allowed to take out a shotgun and shoot him in the face.

He also said that the refs should let them play in the last minute to decide the game which is the exact opposite of almost all analysts position in that situation. Almost everyone has been saying that a foul is a foul at any point b/c players like NC State play good defense and draw a charge under the assumption it will be called and they can't just change up b/c its the last minute.

[brumby041]

Digger Phelps thinks that if the defender is standing at an angle, the offensive player is allowed to take out a shotgun and shoot him in the face.

Digger Phelps thinks?

First time for everything, I guess.

[RockyMtDevil]

UNC has been getting these breaks for 35 years. But, State absolutely blew it with two unforced turnovers, the throw away with no ball presser after the time out was one of the most bone-headed plays I've every seen, then Wood needs to take a 3 and not force that late pass across court, almost like a quarterback forcing it over the middle late in the play. Dumb, dumb, dumb...And that summarizes State.

Still, I'd be pissed about the non-charge call and the phantom call on Barnes. God i hate carolina and that smiley plaid coat coach.

[sporthenry]

State can blame themselves for two HORRIBLE turnovers in the final minute. Or, they can blame Karl Hess.


I understand this point of view but when you are the underdog, you don't nearly have the luxury to beat both the refs and players. If CJ Leslie is on the floor, the ball is probably in his hands and no turnover?

[turnandburn55]

To be fair, if Johnson doesn't flop, he probably gets called for a shooting foul. It's a no-win situation.

No, that's a valid point. Just my initial thought watching the play real-time.

On the other hand, I almost spit out my diet coke when Tyler Zeller fouled out. I don't think I've seen that called against the Heels since before Brendan Haywood mastered the "lean directly over the opponents back and grab the rebound" move. So much for the comment that if he stabbed a State player with a switchblade, he wouldn't get a foul call.

[Bob Green]

UNC has been getting these breaks for 35 years.

You're wrong! :) They've been getting the breaks my whole life and I am 52.

[devildeac]

Late-breaking news: a late foul has been called on the game winning gift shot by unc and it will go against Austin Rivers.:mad:

[sporthenry]

Late-breaking news: a late foul has been called on the game winning gift shot by unc and it will go against Austin Rivers.:mad:

You sure Dre or Dockery didn't get a tech for dunking too hard on the trashcan while waiting in the corner.

[#1Duke]

I'll put my flame suit on because I am tired about hearing about bad calls every game.
While Charging calls can most always be argued/disputed, some calls and some NON CALLS are very obvious and can not be disputed.
Like when Austin Rivers took four ( 4 ) steps and made a three point field goal in our win against Carolina this year. It was a close game as everyone here knows and that 3 point shot was big in our victory. I'm not referring to his winning shot... it was his previous 3 pointer. It was shown at least 3 times in the final minutes of the game and the commentators even said " he got away with one ".
Because of what I have done in my life for many years, I have always had to be objective and it carries into my everyday life.
So, yell about the refs when it suits you AND yell about them when it doesn't.... it gives you more credibility.

[FerryFor50]

I'll put my flame suit on because I am tired about hearing about bad calls every game.
While Charging calls can most always be argued/disputed, some calls and some NON CALLS are very obvious and can not be disputed.
Like when Austin Rivers took four ( 4 ) steps and made a three point field goal in our win against Carolina this year. It was a close game as everyone here knows and that 3 point shot was big in our victory. I'm not referring to his winning shot... it was his previous 3 pointer.
Because of what I have done in my life for many years, I have always had to be objective and it carries into my everyday life.
So, yell about the refs when it suits you AND yell about them when it doesn't.... it gives you more credibility.

If you're going to reference a play, reference the correct player. It was Seth Curry, not Rivers.

Was it a walk? Sure was. But it wasn't a constant barrage of bad calls that got Duke back into the game. It was a barrage of made shots with ONE bad call to help it along.

[sporthenry]

I'll put my flame suit on because I am tired about hearing about bad calls every game.
While Charging calls can most always be argued/disputed, some calls and some NON CALLS are very obvious and can not be disputed.
Like when Austin Rivers took four ( 4 ) steps and made a three point field goal in our win against Carolina this year. It was a close game as everyone here knows and that 3 point shot was big in our victory.
Because of what I have done in my life for many years, I have always had to be objective and it carries into my everyday life.
So, yell about the refs when it suits you AND yell about them when it doesn't.... it gives you more credibility.

I think you mean Curry? But you could go through the whole game and find walks. Sadly to say that is the game nowadays as people on here have mentioned, Rivers travels in the triple threat position all the time. But this was the worst officiated game I can remember. I'm sure some guys on here can think of some that rival it, but there were two different rulebooks applied and I don't necessarily like State or UNC. I just want good basketball and fouling out NC States best player with 8 minutes left is not fun for anyone.

[#1Duke]

If you're going to reference a play, reference the correct player. It was Seth Curry, not Rivers.

Was it a walk? Sure was. But it wasn't a constant barrage of bad calls that got Duke back into the game. It was a barrage of made shots with ONE bad call to help it along.

Sorry about the mistake. It was BIG in our win and MUCH more obvious and a MUCH easier call than your typical charge is all I'm saying.
Seldom do the Refs REALLY determine the outcome of a game but it has happened.

[Verga3]

What a gift.

I only saw the last few minutes but:

Wood didn't foul.
Marshall did charge.
UNC may have been out of bounds on that intercepted pass under the basket (need a better view, sure looked like it)
NCSt got fouled on the last attempted shot.

Several missed calls all UNC's way.

Good thing David Stern isn't head of the ACC; Gottfried would be getting fined already.

It's wise to be very selective in blaming refs for a loss, otherwise you look like a whiner/sore loser. But it appeared to me that NCSt could make a good case that they got jobbed.

An ode to Carl Hess from his buddies....Unbelievable.

[_Gary]

I'll put my flame suit on because I am tired about hearing about bad calls every game.
While Charging calls can most always be argued/disputed, some calls and some NON CALLS are very obvious and can not be disputed.
Like when Austin Rivers took four ( 4 ) steps and made a three point field goal in our win against Carolina this year. It was a close game as everyone here knows and that 3 point shot was big in our victory. I'm not referring to his winning shot... it was his previous 3 pointer. It was shown at least 3 times in the final minutes of the game and the commentators even said " he got away with one ".
Because of what I have done in my life for many years, I have always had to be objective and it carries into my everyday life.
So, yell about the refs when it suits you AND yell about them when it doesn't.... it gives you more credibility.

First of all, it was Seth and not Austin. Secondly, there has not been an overabundance of complaints about UNC and the officiating this year here. At least not compared to what I've seen in the past. But the fact is UNC got the benefit of every questionable call over the last minute of that game. That makes it a big deal when 2 points decide the outcome.

[FerryFor50]

Florida fans would seem to have a gripe, too. 2 FT attempts to Kentucy's 20. Florida took only 5 more 3 pointers than Kentucky.

[FerryFor50]

Sorry about the mistake. It was BIG in our win and MUCH more obvious and a MUCH easier call than your typical charge is all I'm saying.
Seldom do the Refs REALLY determine the outcome of a game but it has happened.

Curry still had to make the 30 foot 3 pointer....

[davekay1971]

Kudos to Alexander for talking about it after the game. He pointed out that the no-call on Marshall was called several times earlier. That's about as far as I think you'll ever see the announcers go in questioning the officials. Well, outside of Elmore and Packer.

Yeah, but did you see how fast Hogewood scrambled to hush up Alexander? He looked absolutely alarmed. I can just imagine the interplay when they went off camera.

Alexander: "Dude, really, Carolina totally got away with a charge there."
Hogewood: "Did you miss the ACC announcer orientation?"
Alexander: "I had the flu, yeah, why?"
Hogewood: "Rule 1. We never, ever, ever question it when Carolina gets a gift from the refs. Never. In fact, we leap to the defense of the officials, keep a straight face, and pronounce solemnly that it was the right call."
Alexander: "Are you serious?!"
Hogewood: "As a heart attack. We are paid by the ACC. Carolina basketball IS the ACC."
Alexander: "But I'm a Wahoo."
Hogewood: "And you'll be unemployed if you pull that crap ever again."

[#1Duke]

Curry still had to make the 30 foot 3 pointer....

Yes, that shouldn't have counted and was obvious to every one but the Refs. Must have been a conspiracy for us to win.
See how dumb that sounds??
And don't forget that Austin travels frequently with no calls.... another conspiracy I guess. Those DARN Refs!!

[ClosetHurleyFan]

Curry still had to make the 30 foot 3 pointer....

Yeah and Marshall had to make the clutch shot off the glass after contact and Justin Watts had to make that fantastic defensive play. What did State do? Piss and moan about fouls that werent called and choke. Oh well, best team won.

[_Gary]

Yes, that shouldn't have counted and was obvious to every one but the Refs. Must have been a conspiracy for us to win.
See how dumb that sounds??
And don't forget that Austin travels frequently with no calls.... another conspiracy I guess. Those DARN Refs!!

Are you sure you are a Duke fan?

[FerryFor50]

Yeah and Marshall had to make the clutch shot off the glass after contact and Justin Watts had to make that fantastic defensive play. What did State do? Piss and moan about fouls that werent called and choke. Oh well, best team won.

Correction: Marshall had to make the clutch shot off the glass AFTER getting away with a charge and Watts had to make that fantastic defensive play AFTER not getting called for being out of bounds.

[davekay1971]

Yeah and Marshall had to make the clutch shot off the glass after contact and Justin Watts had to make that fantastic defensive play. What did State do? Piss and moan about fouls that werent called and choke. Oh well, best team won.

While I think Carolina got some HUGE breaks from the zebras down the stretch, State deserves full credit for totally botching the last minute of game time. Hurts me to see them lose, and they got robbed, but they also blew some critical opportunities.

Still, State probably did enough this weekend to lock up a tournament bid. Congratulations to them for that. A big accomplishment in Gottfried's first season.

[Acymetric]

Gottfried's postgame presser should be on Pay Per View.

Got any highlights or a link?

[#1Duke]

Are you sure you are a Duke fan?

Yes... but why the question?? I mean, I never cheated on an exam, have tried to remain objective in my professional life, and call them like I see'em.
Being a fan does not affect what I see with my eyes, nor do I want to appear to be a hypocrite.
I think you can be a fan AND maintain a certain amount of integrity. Don't you??

[devildeac]

Just saw the replay of State's last shot by Howell. Couldn't tell whether the unc guy had one arm or both with the grab/hack. No wonder Howell had to be restrained by his teammate from going after the ref. He jawed at him quite a bit.

[Acymetric]

Just saw the replay of State's last shot by Howell. Couldn't tell whether the unc guy had one arm or both with the grab/hack. No wonder Howell had to be restrained by his teammate from going after the ref. He jawed at him quite a bit.

And rightfully so. I would have flown off the handle if it was me.

[Acymetric]

Yes... but why the question?? I mean, I never cheated on an exam, have tried to remain objective in my professional life, and call them like I see'em.
Being a fan does not affect what I see with my eyes, nor do I want to appear to be a hypocrite.
I think you can be a fan AND maintain a certain amount of integrity. Don't you??

And some of us think you can maintain integrity and still think there were some bad calls at the end of that game. Saying that the people who disagree with you lack integrity isn't a good way to facilitate quality discourse, by the way.

[FerryFor50]

And some of us think you can maintain integrity and still think there were some bad calls at the end of that game. Saying that the people who disagree with you lack integrity isn't a good way to facilitate quality discourse, by the way.

There is such a thing as trying too hard to be unbiased. Just ask Jay Bilas.

[#1Duke]

And some of us think you can maintain integrity and still think there were some bad calls at the end of that game. Saying that the people who disagree with you lack integrity isn't a good way to facilitate quality discourse, by the way.

Go back and read the thread. I didn't say anyone lacked integrity. I said "I think you can be a fan AND maintain a certain amount of integrity. Don't you??"
That was in response to the question " Are you sure you are a Duke fan?"

I WILL SAY that if you complain about the refs when it suits you but choose to ignore bad calls and no calls when it benefits your team then yes, IMHO you would be someone who lacks integrity.

[ChicagoHeel]

To win you sometimes have to be good and lucky, and we were both in the last minute. Officiating aside, Marshall made a big shot and Watts a heads-up steal and a very smart pass to the other end of the court. Did we benefit from calls down the stretch? Yes, although I think the Marshall no call was one of those 50-50 plays that could have gone either way. I don't think NCSU can blame the refs any more than we can blame the missed Curry four-step for our loss to you earlier in the season. Just like us back in February, State had a terrible turnover late in the game and made some mistakes (e.g. the staff lost track of Leslie's fouls and kept him in the game after he picked up his fourth). I sympathize with Pack fans over a tough loss, but I don't think they can blame the refs.

[Greg_Newton]

To win you sometimes have to be good and lucky, and we were both in the last minute. Officiating aside, Marshall made a big shot and Watts a heads-up steal and a very smart pass to the other end of the court. Did we benefit from calls down the stretch? Yes, although I think the Marshall no call was one of those 50-50 plays that could have gone either way. I don't think NCSU can blame the refs any more than we can blame the missed Curry four-step for our loss to you earlier in the season. Just like us back in February, State had a terrible turnover late in the game and made some mistakes (e.g. the staff lost track of Leslie's fouls and kept him in the game after he picked up his fourth). I sympathize with Pack fans over a tough loss, but I don't think they can blame the refs.

CH, heard anything about Henson's status for tomorrrow?

[davekay1971]

To win you sometimes have to be good and lucky, and we were both in the last minute. Officiating aside, Marshall made a big shot and Watts a heads-up steal and a very smart pass to the other end of the court. Did we benefit from calls down the stretch? Yes, although I think the Marshall no call was one of those 50-50 plays that could have gone either way. I don't think NCSU can blame the refs any more than we can blame the missed Curry four-step for our loss to you earlier in the season. Just like us back in February, State had a terrible turnover late in the game and made some mistakes (e.g. the staff lost track of Leslie's fouls and kept him in the game after he picked up his fourth). I sympathize with Pack fans over a tough loss, but I don't think they can blame the refs.

I agree and disagree CH. The Tarheels certainly deserve some credit for the win and State some blame for the loss. Carolina made the big plays (Watts' play, as you indicated, was beyond a good play - it was a great, heads-up defensive play). State really, really botched the last minute of the game. BUT...Howell and Leslie both got victimized by some bad calls which really limited what was shaping up as a huge advantage for State with Henson out of the game. And, although there were some legitimate bad and missed calls that went against Carolina, there was a series of questionable calls and no-calls that hurt State at the end-game.

In the final analysis, with slightly under a minute left, State unraveled. They had the ball in a tie game with perfect timing for a 2 possessions to 1 trade-off. They threw a bad turnover, Carolina got the benefit of a huge no-call and a great shot by Marshall, State then committed another turnover (on Watts' stellar defensive play) and, on a final desperation play, Carolina benefitted from another huge no-call. 2 blown plays by State, 2 big no-calls benefitting Carolina. If State doesn't commit those bad turnovers, chances are we're not talking about the no-calls right now.

[PackMan97]

http://bit.ly/xeWb5r

You aren't paranoid if they really are out to get you. This refs words, combined with the number of times the same call was made in this game (but not made at the end on Carolina), plus the bizarre Karl Hess tribute do not make state fans paranoid, they make us right.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

It was a tightly called game that the players on both sides didn't do a very good job of adjusting to, and while some definitely were questionable, it seemed to go both ways and felt balanced to me.

Marshall's last shot was a clear no call all day long in my book. Big shot by KM and UNC was admittedly lucky to get the win.

Blame the refs all you want State, but what really needs to happen is to look in the mirror. Quit screwing up in the clutch. Your coaching staff lets your best player foul out in the key stretch of the game because they didn't realize he had 4 fouls? Really? And you want to be taken seriously at the highest level of college ball. That shouldn't happen in high school.

State is a good, talented team. They just need to play smarter and make plays. Show some basketball IQ. They want to cry woe is me, blame it on somebody else, more than focusing on playing smart.

UNC won tough acc simi-final against against State playing a trio of freshmen (Hubert, Hairston, McAdoo) extended minutes along with career bench supporter JWatts. A trio of starters was unavailable in Henson, Leslie, Strickland, yet they still got it done. Roy and this team deserve some credit for his coaching and their play as a team.

Earlier in the Duke FSU pre-game thread I said Duke was on borrowed time in the post season the way they've been playing, and time ran out today.

I'll say the same for UNC. As bad as Duke's post offense is, UNC's outside shooting is worse. They are gonna get beat without making some more shots from distance by FSU.

[davekay1971]

http://bit.ly/xeWb5r

You aren't paranoid if they really are out to get you. This refs words, combined with the number of times the same call was made in this game (but not made at the end on Carolina), plus the bizarre Karl Hess tribute do not make state fans paranoid, they make us right.

Wow.

Really, wow.

It'll be interesting to see how that develops, when members of the media are overhearing that kind of unprofessional remark from an official. Gottfried was, at no time in the game (nor during the season that I can recall) inappropriate in his conduct toward the officials.

State fans have been vociferous in their opinion that they are frequently the victims of Duke/UNC bias. After the Hess/Corchiani/Gugs debacle the University finally joined in to complain, and then made the in-your-face move of honoring the Gugs/Corch team. The response by the refs - the KH tape and now, apparently, Gottfried getting "told".

Wheat: while you saw the game as evenly balanced bad officiating, you are, despite all your good qualities, a UNC fan. Reading the "impartial experts" on espn.com and cnnsi.com (whatever they are worth), they aren't seeing it as evenly balanced. While I don't believe in grand conspiracies between the ACC and refs (the ACC actually would have benefitted from State winning the game - that would have made State an NCAA tourney lock, while Duke and UNC were already going to give the ACC a 1 seed and 2 seed, no matter today's outcomes), I do think the bad calls leaned heavily in the favor of UNC, particularly in the first 10 minutes and last 3 minutes of the 2nd half.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wow.

Really, wow.

It'll be interesting to see how that develops, when members of the media are overhearing that kind of unprofessional remark from an official. Gottfried was, at no time in the game (nor during the season that I can recall) inappropriate in his conduct toward the officials.

State fans have been vociferous in their opinion that they are frequently the victims of Duke/UNC bias. After the Hess/Corchiani/Gugs debacle the University finally joined in to complain, and then made the in-your-face move of honoring the Gugs/Corch team. The response by the refs - the KH tape and now, apparently, Gottfried getting "told".

It's hard to know what Gottfried said to the official before the official's comment back to him. I know I was lip reading Gottfried a couple of times and it seemed his language would have made coach K proud.

[sporthenry]

Marshall's last shot was a clear no call all day long in my book. Big shot by KM and UNC was admittedly lucky to get the win.


Ask CJ Leslie or Lorenzo Brown what a no call was. It's fun to see UNC ignore the fact that they flop even more than Duke now a days.

[DukieInKansas]

Correction: Marshall had to make the clutch shot off the glass AFTER getting away with a charge and Watts had to make that fantastic defensive play AFTER not getting called for being out of bounds.

I caught the last bit of the game. I thought Watts was out of bounds on that play but they never showed it again or commented on it.

[CDu]

It was a tightly called game that the players on both sides didn't do a very good job of adjusting to, and while some definitely were questionable, it seemed to go both ways and felt balanced to me.

Of course it felt balanced to you. Your team was on the benefiting side of the balance.

If Marshall's charge was a no-call then CJ Leslie's 4th foul should have been a no-call and Richard Howell's 4th foul should have been a no-call and the foul on Lorenzo Brown where PJ Hairston flopped should have been a no-call. Marshall made as much contact and lowered his shoulder just as much if not more than those three State players did. Yet he didn't get called, and the State players did.

I'm not claiming bias or conspiracy. Just that the inconsistencies definitely seemed to lean more in UNC's favor. UNC got away with a lot of flops. And as I believe another poster noted, pretty much everyone other than Doug Gottlieb said Marshall's play was a charge. Nobody on TV seems to be in agreement with you that it was balanced.

[CDu]

I caught the last bit of the game. I thought Watts was out of bounds on that play but they never showed it again or commented on it.

It was very very close. It would have been nice to see a replay on that, for sure. In fairness, the official was right there to see it and had a better angle than we did.

[davekay1971]

It's hard to know what Gottfried said to the official before the official's comment back to him. I know I was lip reading Gottfried a couple of times and it seemed his language would have made coach K proud.

I knew there was a reason I liked that guy. I may have to buy some more Wolfpack gear. Anyone who wants to coach in the triangle and swear like a man, rather than Gol-darnin', Dag-blamin', and Aw-shuckin' from sunup to sundown under these Carolina-blue skies is okay by me.

I hope Gottfried has the decency to curb the language when playing in The Dean E. Smith Cathedral Of The Carolina Way, however, out of respect for the sensibilities of the Rams Club Choir of Angels. I know they, and their High Priests of Doing it the Right Way, would never, ever stoop to the villainy of cursing, and lesser coaches should strive, under that Exalted Roof, to rise to that example of Gentlemanly Sportsmanship. Kryzyzewski, as we know, is beyond redemption, and brings the Evil of his Forked and Filthy Tongue into the Cathedral with him (Blasphemer!).

In all seriousness, it's not uncommon for a ref to T up a coach who crosses the line with the verbal haranguing. Cursing a coach out, however, is not, as far as I've ever heard, the norm. Given that you have media folks tweeting about it, I suspect it's not the norm as far as they're concerned, either. Between the Googs/Corchianni embarrassment, the KH tape nonsense, and media folks tweeting about that kind of language from a ref, the ACC really needs to look at the behavior of their refs. Because, on the national stage, the ACC basketball reffing is looking like a bad joke right now.

[DukieInKansas]

It was very very close. It would have been nice to see a replay on that, for sure. In fairness, the official was right there to see it and had a better angle than we did.

I agree, the ref was right there - but I was surprised they never showed it again.

I just read the article about what the ref apparently said to the State coach. I certainly hope it is investigated and, if true, the ref is disciplined. I thought refs were supposed to just stand there and let that stuff go in one ear and out the other.

[davekay1971]

I caught the last bit of the game. I thought Watts was out of bounds on that play but they never showed it again or commented on it.

The ACC broadcast, I thought, showed the replay at least one time (although they certainly didn't zoom in or really take a close look at his foot positioning), and I thought he was probably in bounds. It was, simply, a stellar play. To get back that fast, intercept the pass, stay in bounds (assuming he did, and I think he did), and have the smarts to fling the ball to the other end of the court, was just great, great basketball. Hats off to Watts for that play.

[#1Duke]

I agree that the Ref shouldn't have used such language. He should have just called the T even though he apparently didn't want to and instead decided to speak harshly to the coach.

[devildeac]

I agree, the ref was right there - but I was surprised they never showed it again.

I just read the article about what the ref apparently said to the State coach. I certainly hope it is investigated and, if true, the ref is disciplined. I thought refs were supposed to just stand there and let that stuff go in one ear and out the other.

You apparently haven't heard of karl "rabbit ears" hess.

;):rolleyes:

[DukieInKansas]

You apparently haven't heard of karl "rabbit ears" hess.

;):rolleyes:


Isn't he the guy with the new line of shoes for the fashionable ref?