Silver Lining???

[dbcooper]

Silver Lining??? Okay, yes the UNC loss hurt all of us and still does me.
Now moving forward...I feel pretty good looking back on the game and seeing some of the stats , meaning- after seeing Miles and Mason outscore Zeller and Henson makes me feel great!!
Why? Because I know we have a great outside perimeter game and seeing the Plumlees pump out those numbers and effort makes me feel good going in the the tounaments! Another option we all knew we had but I think the Brothers Plumlee (hopefully) gained bigtime confidence going down the stretch!!
GO DUKE!!

[Edouble]

Miles woke up in the 2nd half of the season. Mace woke up in the 2nd half of the UNC game. When they're both "on" at once, it causes a lot of wear and tear on opposing team's frontcourts and gives us a great chance to finish games strong. Go Duke!

[Devilsfan]

As long as we don't start the game playing unc transition basketball.

[DukeGirl4ever]

I'm trying to remain positive after that game, so I agree that I was REALLY glad to see Mason get on track in the 2nd half. The other thing that I saw is that they were finding Mason in places where it was easy to score, so he was able to see the ball go through the hoop and get some confidence. I thought we got away from that in the last couple of games (i.e. finding him in transition).

Miles was just phenomenal. If the two Plums play like that, and we avoid an approximate 25% shooting half, I like our chances.

If we have "all the pistons firing" we are a really good team. We just can't have disappearing acts from 2-3 players each night.

I'm glad we got the March loss out of the way now. :)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'm trying to remain positive after that game, so I agree that I was REALLY glad to see Mason get on track in the 2nd half. The other thing that I saw is that they were finding Mason in places where it was easy to score, so he was able to see the ball go through the hoop and get some confidence. I thought we got away from that in the last couple of games (i.e. finding him in transition).

Miles was just phenomenal. If the two Plums play like that, and we avoid an approximate 25% shooting half, I like our chances.

If we have "all the pistons firing" we are a really good team. We just can't have disappearing acts from 2-3 players each night.

I'm glad we got the March loss out of the way now. :)
Yup. I said something like this in the MOTM thread last night.

Miles, because he showed up at the beginning of the game and mostly throughout. Mason showed up in the second half. If there is one positive in tonight's debacle, it's that Mason has rediscovered how to make his hook shot and score around the basket. That could be very valuable for our team in the next 4 weeks. :cool:

Congrats and thanks to Miles for coming to Duke and giving us your all!

[DukeGirl4ever]

Ozzie,
I've always loved your opTOEmism....in life, I'm naturally a pessimist! However, Duke basketball is my one true passion in life, and I will ALWAYS try to find a way to support them and look on the bright side.

This is a team, that a few weeks ago, no one was even talking about for this upcoming tournament. But then up to yesterday, you had many people talking about them being a number 1 seed again. Coach K never ceases to amaze me.

[moonpie23]

i am taking solace in knowing that after winning like they did last night, the tarholes are HATING losing like they did in their house even MORE than they did before ........i mean, that was just a serious choke job......

[lotusland]

It would be too much to ask to go 3-0 against the heels this year. I'm glad that Duke will have a little chip on their shoulder if we get a rubber match in the ACCT championship. Given Roy's non chalant attitude about the ACCT and their lack of depth, I like our chances in a possible round 3. We have a lot of work to do to get there but I would rather see Duke hang a banner for Miles' last ACCT than winning a regular season title on senior night if given the choice.

[dukeballboy88]

I dont think it was unc last night, I think it was more of Duke missing shots. UNC was UNC, no different than last time they played. They score their usual 80+ points and played lazy man to man d as always. Duke just couldnt throw it in the pacific standing on a boat. I mean, I dont think UNC came out of the 2nd half and said dont guard Duke any more, no the difference was the shots started falling. I give unc credit for bringing the heat on the offensive end they were very efficient but the reason we got down was because of what we didnt do not because of unc's great d.

Looking back at the game, it pains me to say Ryan wasnt contested the entire night and couldnt hit a shot. He missed more wide open shots than anyone. And im kind of mad Dawkins didnt get more burn. He maybe couldve found the stroke and got us closer in the first half. I get tired of hearing that he dont play because of his defense because nobody Duke is that great a defensive player.

I hope unc and Duke can break the tie in Atlanta because I think Duke will spank them on a neutral court.

[OldPhiKap]

The silver lining is that we probably don't play a team with three or four future NBA players in the NCAA until we get to the Final Four. Then, it's anyone's game.

UNC is an extremely talented team. Probably the best individual talent in the conference. Tip your hat, move on, beat them in the rematch.

The other silver lining is that we play with more intensity on the road than at home. Not sure why. But every game is a hostile arena from here on out.

[uh_no]

ON the bright side, we're almost assuredly in the Atlanta region now (most likely with kansas...unless UNC passes kansas...in which case with UNC)......to get pushed out of it one of the following would need to happen:

1)we end up as a 1 seed, but ranked behind Kansas....then we got to pheonix
2)both UNC and Duke end up as 2 seeds and UNC is higher than us on the S curve(would involve both losing before the finals, likely, and UNC would probably be ahead of us)...then we go to St louis with UK

[HDB]

ON the bright side, we're almost assuredly in the Atlanta region now (most likely with kansas...unless UNC passes kansas...in which case with UNC)......to get pushed out of it one of the following would need to happen:

1)we end up as a 1 seed, but ranked behind Kansas....then we got to pheonix
2)both UNC and Duke end up as 2 seeds and UNC is higher than us on the S curve(would involve both losing before the finals, likely, and UNC would probably be ahead of us)...then we go to St louis with UK

I didn't think it was possible for 2 teams from the same conference to end up as #1 and #2 seeds in the same region. Is it really possible that we could end up with UNC in Atlanta?

[uh_no]

I didn't think it was possible for 2 teams from the same conference to end up as #1 and #2 seeds in the same region. Is it really possible that we could end up with UNC in Atlanta?

That may be true. Its never clear what's an official rule and whats accepted practice when seeding.

If so, if UNC is the #3 overall, we go to st louis.

[gep]

As I've posted elsewhere... is it better being a #1 seed out West, or a #2 seed "close to home". A #1 seed is definitely an achievement, but I rather take the #2 seed close to home, get to the Final Four, and take our chances there, instead of "out West".

[Kedsy]

As I've posted elsewhere... is it better being a #1 seed out West, or a #2 seed "close to home". A #1 seed is definitely an achievement, but I rather take the #2 seed close to home, get to the Final Four, and take our chances there, instead of "out West".

I posted the numbers last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24779-1-vs-2-seeds-does-it-matter), but historically, #1 seeds perform much, much better than #2 seeds. Twice as many #1s have made the Final Four as #2s and four times as many #1s have become champion than #2s. Part of that is because #1 seeds are better teams than #2 seeds, but twice as good? Four times as good? I conclude that the lion's share of the disparity is due to the easier road that #1s have compared to #2s. Thus, despite last year's downfall as a #1 out west, I strongly believe being a #1 seed out west is significantly more advantageous than a #2 seed close to home.

[tommy]

I posted the numbers last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24779-1-vs-2-seeds-does-it-matter), but historically, #1 seeds perform much, much better than #2 seeds. Twice as many #1s have made the Final Four as #2s and four times as many #1s have become champion than #2s. Part of that is because #1 seeds are better teams than #2 seeds, but twice as good? Four times as good? I conclude that the lion's share of the disparity is due to the easier road that #1s have compared to #2s. Thus, despite last year's downfall as a #1 out west, I strongly believe being a #1 seed out west is significantly more advantageous than a #2 seed close to home.

This is even more true now that the placement of the #2 seeds is done with an emphasis on geography rather than on a straight S-curve. In the past, when the S-curve was adhered to more closely, whether you were #4 or #5 overall, meaning either the fourth #1 or the top #2 seed, didn't matter, because you'd have the same 4 vs. 5 matchup set up regardless.

But now, even as the fourth #1 seed, you could easily end up with a regional final against the fourth #2 -- meaning the #8 overall team, because of geography. In fact, as I posted in the "top seeding" thread, this could happen this year, as a fourth overall #1, such as Duke or UNC could get shipped west, which sounds bad, but only to have the perceived advantage of a regional matchup with an overall #8 such as Missouri.

[kingboozer]

We left 9 points on the free throw line and 45 points on the 3 point line. UNC was ready for our outside game and completely took it away from us the whole time. We can't leave that many points on the floor during the tournament and expect to make a deep run. Like several of us have said before, Miles had a great game and he should be proud of his last performance in Cameron. We just can't rely on the Plumlee's to win games, we have to have better perimeter shooting than that display. We can and have done it this season and hopefully this game was the shot in the arm the team needed to make a deep run.

[sagegrouse]

I posted the numbers last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24779-1-vs-2-seeds-does-it-matter), but historically, #1 seeds perform much, much better than #2 seeds. Twice as many #1s have made the Final Four as #2s and four times as many #1s have become champion than #2s. Part of that is because #1 seeds are better teams than #2 seeds, but twice as good? Four times as good? I conclude that the lion's share of the disparity is due to the easier road that #1s have compared to #2s. Thus, despite last year's downfall as a #1 out west, I strongly believe being a #1 seed out west is significantly more advantageous than a #2 seed close to home.

When discussing #1 seeds, we are dealing with the extreme tail of the distribution of the 300+ Division I teams. The best #1 and #2 overall seeds, therefore, can be very, very good. One would expect the #1 overall seed (#1/1) to be substantially better than the best #2 seed (#2/1) -- a greater quality differential than, say, the difference between the best #2 and the best #3 (#3/1). Under this logic, the underlying quality of the seeded team may be more important than the marginally easier matchups over the course of the NCAAs.

Thus, while you would surely rather be a #1 seed than a #2 seed, it may be mostly because you would want to be the better basketball team with the better record.

sagegrouse

[CameronBornAndBred]

My silver lining is that our game is at 7 instead of noon. That means I can watch after dinner with a beer in my hands, while the heels' fans have to decide if they are going to take the day off or a long lunch or listen on the radio or miss it entirely. Nyaah nyaah.

[Matches]

My silver lining is that our game is at 7 instead of noon. That means I can watch after dinner with a beer in my hands, while the heels' fans have to decide if they are going to take the day off or a long lunch or listen on the radio or miss it entirely. Nyaah nyaah.

Yeah, this is definitely a perk. 7 pm is the time at which all college bball games should start. Perfect time to settle in after a nice meal, beer in hand, and us old farts don't have to stay up late to watch the ending.

[devildeac]

My silver lining is that our game is at 7 instead of noon. That means I can watch after dinner with a beer in my hands, while the heels' fans have to decide if they are going to take the day off or a long lunch or listen on the radio or miss it entirely. Nyaah nyaah.


Yeah, this is definitely a perk. 7 pm is the time at which all college bball games should start. Perfect time to settle in after a nice meal, beer in hand, and us old farts don't have to stay up late to watch the ending.

But, do want a large margin of victory so the reserves get some burn and the first 5-6 guys get a workout but not worn out? Or, do we want a tight game (with a win, of course) that gets us focused that there won't be many (any?) easy ones for the rest of the season and has them ready to grind out three wins this weekend?

[Matches]

But, do want a large margin of victory so the reserves get some burn and the first 5-6 guys get a workout but not worn out? Or, do we want a tight game (with a win, of course) that gets us focused that there won't be many (any?) easy ones for the rest of the season and has them ready to grind out three wins this weekend?

I'll go with "big win." If we make it to Saturday, we're going to have our hands very full.

We really haven't blown out very many teams this year, though, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Friday's game is competitive. Obviously VT hung with us in Cameron, and Clemson played us relatively tough earlier in the season (and has played well lately).

[The Gordog]

I posted the numbers last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24779-1-vs-2-seeds-does-it-matter), but historically, #1 seeds perform much, much better than #2 seeds. Twice as many #1s have made the Final Four as #2s and four times as many #1s have become champion than #2s. Part of that is because #1 seeds are better teams than #2 seeds, but twice as good? Four times as good? I conclude that the lion's share of the disparity is due to the easier road that #1s have compared to #2s. Thus, despite last year's downfall as a #1 out west, I strongly believe being a #1 seed out west is significantly more advantageous than a #2 seed close to home.

While that may be true, I think you also have to consider Duke's performances as #1 vs. #2 seeds in the K era, and Duke's performance in the Eastern Regionals. My intuition is that based on those factors I would rather be #2 in the East than #1 out West.


When discussing #1 seeds, we are dealing with the extreme tail of the distribution of the 300+ Division I teams. The best #1 and #2 overall seeds, therefore, can be very, very good. One would expect the #1 overall seed (#1/1) to be substantially better than the best #2 seed (#2/1) -- a greater quality differential than, say, the difference between the best #2 and the best #3 (#3/1). Under this logic, the underlying quality of the seeded team may be more important than the marginally easier matchups over the course of the NCAAs.

Thus, while you would surely rather be a #1 seed than a #2 seed, it may be mostly because you would want to be the better basketball team with the better record.

sagegrouse

Exactly.

[sporthenry]

When discussing #1 seeds, we are dealing with the extreme tail of the distribution of the 300+ Division I teams. The best #1 and #2 overall seeds, therefore, can be very, very good. One would expect the #1 overall seed (#1/1) to be substantially better than the best #2 seed (#2/1) -- a greater quality differential than, say, the difference between the best #2 and the best #3 (#3/1). Under this logic, the underlying quality of the seeded team may be more important than the marginally easier matchups over the course of the NCAAs.

Thus, while you would surely rather be a #1 seed than a #2 seed, it may be mostly because you would want to be the better basketball team with the better record.


I would agree and often over the past few years, Duke has been the 4-6 area which is the borderline #1 seed and this argument comes up. But these stats seem to be more indicative of the gap between Syracuse and Kentucky versus Marquette or Missouri. So you start to compare the #1 team who has consistently been the best team to the #2 team who either got very hot towards the end (like OSU did with Evan Turner) or a top team starts to tail off like Nova did a few years ago. When Duke won it all, I believe it came down to WVU and Duke as the last #1 and both teams made the F4. Now this is only one example but I'd be more interested to see #4 on the S curve versus #5 or #6 (or even rankings going into the tournament) to be more conclusive.

[BigWayne]

ON the bright side, we're almost assuredly in the Atlanta region now (most likely with kansas...unless UNC passes kansas...in which case with UNC)......to get pushed out of it one of the following would need to happen:

1)we end up as a 1 seed, but ranked behind Kansas....then we got to pheonix
2)both UNC and Duke end up as 2 seeds and UNC is higher than us on the S curve(would involve both losing before the finals, likely, and UNC would probably be ahead of us)...then we go to St louis with UK

Right now with Kansas as the 3rd #1, they are likely to go to St Louis and Kentucky comes to Atlanta. If UNC wins the ACCT and beats Duke in the finals, they probably go to #3 and go to Atlanta with Kansas going to Phoenix and Kentucky to St Louis. STL and ATL are basically the same for Kentucky in travel. The difference is who #4 is that is made to travel west.

[Kedsy]

While that may be true, I think you also have to consider Duke's performances as #1 vs. #2 seeds in the K era, and Duke's performance in the Eastern Regionals. My intuition is that based on those factors I would rather be #2 in the East than #1 out West.

Well, these are very small sample sizes to look at one team's performance under such narrow parameters. Coach K's first four Final Fours all came out of the Meadowlands (in, of course, the East Regional), as a #1, #2, #2, and #3 seed. Two of K's championships came as #1 seeds out of Philadelphia (also the East, of course). His other two championships came as a #2 in the Midwest (Detroit) and a #1 in the South (Houston). Both times we've been in an East Regional that did not occur in either Philadelphia or the Meadowlands, we've lost in the Sweet 16 (including one in Boston).

During K's amazing 7 Final Fours in 9 years run in the 80s and 90s, we were only a #1 seed twice of those 9 years (both times made the finals, with one championship). Four of those years we had a #2 and made the Final Four (including one championship), two of those years we had a #3 (one final game; one 2nd round loss); and one year we were a #5 (Sweet 16 loss).

Since then, however, it's a different story. Our three tries as a #2 seed after 1994 all ended in early losses (2 second round losses and one Sweet 16 loss, the latter coming in the East). Our ten ventures as a #1 seed netted two championships, two Final Fours, an Elite Eight, and five Sweet 16 losses.

Overall, as a #2 seed we've reached the Final Four 4 times and suffered an early loss 3 times (57% "success rate"). As a #1 seed we've reached the Final Four 6 times and the Elite Eight once, and suffered an early loss 5 times (58% "success rate"). If you're interested, I could post a complete chart of our performances as a #1 and #2, but like I said, it's really too small a sample with too many variables to draw any legitimate conclusions.

But based on the overall performance of #1 seeds vs. #2 seeds, I'd still much rather be #1 in the West than #2 in the East.

[nocilla]

When the new AP poll comes out today Duke will be a top 10 team for the 92nd straight week which is the 2nd longest streak in NCAA history. Duke is #6 in the ESPN/Coaches poll, they should be close to that in the AP. We certainly still have a lot to be grateful for.

[killerleft]

Silver Lining? There's no big play to show folks next year during the build-up to the Duke-UNC matchups after a blowout. So the Heels will have to watch Austin Rivers make that shot at least a thousand times before each rivalry game:D.

[jdc75]

Silver lining- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X1ewxVwhug

It made my heart ache a little less. May it helps yours too.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Silver Lining? There's no big play to show folks next year during the build-up to the Duke-UNC matchups after a blowout. So the Heels will have to watch Austin Rivers make that shot at least a thousand times before each rivalry game:D.
I got the distinct impression that showing the video of Austin's shot fueled the focus and determination for the Heels...... that's how it looked from my seat in Cameron.

[killerleft]

I got the distinct impression that showing the video of Austin's shot fueled the focus and determination for the Heels...... that's how it looked from my seat in Cameron.

I didn't know they showed the video in Cameron before the game. But the FANS will still have to watch it next year no matter what. If such videos are really fuel, maybe K can show our team this last game before we whip the Heels in the ACC Tourney Final, if such a game occurs.

[dbcooper]

Silver lining- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X1ewxVwhug

It made my heart ache a little less. May it helps yours too.

Thank you jdc75!!! Man, Austin shot that with instinct and Pure Confidence! Much like Mason and Miles played Saturday night.

It seems to me that when they don't overthink the game - Good things happen. Remember when Kyrie was running the point earlier last year and sped the game up? It seemed to me that Mason just played with his own instinct and his points and rebound numbers were good then too. I look at Ryan, Mason and even Seth sometimes and it seems that they are overthinking the game rather than just going out and playing hard and executing. I know we dont have the elite Kyrie any longer. It seems like everyone on the team just needs to take a couple deep breaths and relax a little and make the game fun again. They were so tight Saturday night and the first half showed on both ends of the court and freethrow line also.

And its very obvious that Andre is a confidence shooter....If his first one falls... he will shoot all night long - as he should, he is just too good to just shoot once or twice then go out of the game.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see that tough road team the went undefeated in the ACC this year!! Uh um.... the only ACC team to go undefeated on the road this year!

Go Duke!

[shoutingncu]

i am taking solace in knowing that after winning like they did last night, the tarholes are HATING losing like they did in their house even MORE than they did before ........i mean, that was just a serious choke job......


Silver Lining? There's no big play to show folks next year during the build-up to the Duke-UNC matchups after a blowout. So the Heels will have to watch Austin Rivers make that shot at least a thousand times before each rivalry game:D.

I'm fairly sure no matter what the result on Saturday was, we're all going to be seeing that shot for a very long time. And this tarhole will be seeing it at least once more when I burn both games to DVD. It was an instant classic, regardless of the "negative" outcome. I told people I worked with that I continued to choose (choose, so I may have been wrong) to believe that Carolina was the ten points better than Duke that they were for most of the second half (after weathering and responding to Duke's hot shooting to start the game). And now with an 18 point win, I continue to believe that Carolina is about ten points better.

So, no, I don't hate losing like that. I'd rather be heartbroken than embarrassed. Wouldn't you all rather have lost on the Snaer three than the ridiculous beatdown FSU handed us?

[dbcooper]

I'm fairly sure no matter what the result on Saturday was, we're all going to be seeing that shot for a very long time. And this tarhole will be seeing it at least once more when I burn both games to DVD. It was an instant classic, regardless of the "negative" outcome. I told people I worked with that I continued to choose (choose, so I may have been wrong) to believe that Carolina was the ten points better than Duke that they were for most of the second half (after weathering and responding to Duke's hot shooting to start the game). And now with an 18 point win, I continue to believe that Carolina is about ten points better.

So, no, I don't hate losing like that. I'd rather be heartbroken than embarrassed. Wouldn't you all rather have lost on the Snaer three than the ridiculous beatdown FSU handed us?

As a loooong time Duke Fan, I have never been embarrassed in one of their performances. They have cold shooting nights - yes and was disappointed but embarrased - No! Duke still played hard in the 1990 UNLV NCAA Tournament loss until the last second ticked off the clock just as the did in the UNC game on March 3rd.

Go Duke!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I didn't know they showed the video in Cameron before the game. But the FANS will still have to watch it next year no matter what. If such videos are really fuel, maybe K can show our team this last game before we whip the Heels in the ACC Tourney Final, if such a game occurs.

They have shown Austin's shot in the pre-game player introduction video for every game since he made it! If carolina was able to use it for motivation, kudo's to them, but I loved it and still do! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif