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-bdbd
03-02-2012, 03:31 PM
For the ACC WBBT Friday matchups in Greensboro we have:

Early game: GT (4) and UNC (5). GT wins by one point, 54-53.

3PM game is #6 NCSU and #1 Duke.

6PM is #2 Miami and #7 Wake.

8PM is #3 MD vs #6 UVA.



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For Duke, they have trailed the whole game so far. With 9:55 to go in the first half they are down 17-14. Three fouls for each team. Now 19-17 State at 8:56, with State picking up 2 more fouls (now 5-3).

Now a time-out with 6:54 in the first, Duke down 24-21.

In their only match-up this season, in Jan. in Durham, Duke won by over 20.

CameronBornAndBred
03-02-2012, 03:38 PM
With 5 minutes to go in the first half, Duke is trailing State by 3, 29-26. I wish I weren't stuck at work!

-bdbd
03-02-2012, 03:51 PM
Half, 37-36 Duke.

Lots of O-rebounds for State! Too many Duke T/O's!


We are shooting 15-30 (50%), and 3-7 for 3's (43%), and 4-9 (!!) for FT's (44%).
State is shooting 14-36 (39%), and 2-10 from 3-range (20%), and 6 - 7 FT's (86%).
We lead in total Reb's, 20-19, but State strong in O-rebounds.
We lead 18-12 for pts in the paint.
Their bench outscoring ours 12-4.

Gray has 16 pts and 6 reb's. E'Williams has 6 pts and 3 reb's.

killerleft
03-02-2012, 03:58 PM
Coach P mentioned Liston's foul trouble and said our defense must improve in the second half. I saw very little, took a long time to get ESPN3 working.

-bdbd
03-02-2012, 04:19 PM
14:19 to go in the second half.

Score is tied 44-44.

Too many T/O's and missed FT's by Duke.
:mad:
State has converted several fastbreak buckets, even on our made FT's...

-bdbd
03-02-2012, 04:33 PM
58-54 Duke, 9:30 to go.


59-58 State at 8:27.

60-59 Duke, with the ball at 7:52. Timeout Duke. 6 fouls for Duke, and 4 for State so far this half.

5:41 to go. State sinks a 3, now up 64-62. 7-4 Duke has more fouls.

66-63 State at 3:45.

stillcrazie
03-02-2012, 05:04 PM
So much for Coach P being a genius.

-bdbd
03-02-2012, 05:05 PM
State up by 2.
Liston misses scoop shot with 30 sec.
State misses 2 FT's. Duke down 2 with 15 sec - t/o.
Gray fouled, missed front of 1-and-1 with 2 sec left.

State wins 75-73.

Good effort at late comeback, as we were down 8 with under three to play. But e'Wil fouling out with just over 2 min left on a marginal call didn't help. (In fact, nobody's gonna claim "Duke gets the calls" after this one! 2nd half foul count: 12 for Duke and 7 for State.) Ugh!

Now wait for the NCAAT. Hope for a #2 seed.

This is the first time in ACCT history a 9 has beaten a 1. :(


Gray 25 pts, 7 reb
Liston 14 pts
Williams 12 pts, 7 reb, 5 fouls
Selby 10 pts

Team Rebs: 40 vs 40

Duke t/o: 22 (vs 15 for State)
Steals: 8 (vs 12 for State)

Shooting:
Duke 29-61 (47%)
3's: 6 - 15 (40%)
FT's: 9-19 (47%)

burnspbesq
03-02-2012, 05:07 PM
State up by 2.
Liston misses scoop shot with 30 sec.
State miisses 2 FT's. Duke down 2 with 15 sec - t/o.
Gray fouled, missed front of 1-and-1 with 2 sec left.

I picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue.

msdukie
03-02-2012, 05:12 PM
This was a total inexcusable failure on all levels.

PackMan97
03-02-2012, 05:13 PM
In fact, nobody's gonna claim "Duke gets the calls" after this one!

LOL...ya right.

buddy
03-02-2012, 05:15 PM
No excuse for this. We beat State like a drum this year, and shocked them with an amazing comeback over there last year. It looked to me like we played afraid. Hopefully a good lesson for Elizabeth that tournament play is different. Maybe too much complacency after COY for P. Or maybe just fatigue after tall the injuries. I see a #3 seed, and no better than a Sweet 16 at this point.

Duvall
03-02-2012, 05:19 PM
No excuse for this. We beat State like a drum this year, and shocked them with an amazing comeback over there last year. It looked to me like we played afraid. Hopefully a good lesson for Elizabeth that tournament play is different. Maybe too much complacency after COY for P. Or maybe just fatigue after tall the injuries. I see a #3 seed, and no better than a Sweet 16 at this point.

Sweet 16 would be a pretty impressive accomplishment at this point, after all the injuries. Easy to see this team getting ambushed playing a true road game in the second round.

-bdbd
03-02-2012, 05:27 PM
Clarification:

Shooting:
Duke 29-61 (47%) vs State 27-69 (39%)
3's: 6 - 15 (40%) vs State 5-18 (28%)
FT's: 9-19 (47%) vs State 16-20 (80%)

State played tough, and seemed to come up with more than their share of the loose, 50-50 balls. We had way too many turnovers. The defense wasn't as energetic as usual. And a few critical calls went their way.
Terrible FT shooting by Duke.

Next play.

uh_no
03-02-2012, 05:33 PM
Clarification:

Shooting:
Duke 29-61 (47%) vs State 27-69 (39%)
3's: 6 - 15 (40%) vs State 5-18 (28%)
FT's: 9-19 (47%) vs State 16-20 (80%)

State played tough, and seemed to come up with more than their share of the loose, 50-50 balls. We had way too many turnovers. The defense wasn't as energetic as usual. And a few critical calls went their way.
Terrible FT shooting by Duke.

Next play.

The reason they lost is 100% free throw shooting. You can't shoot <50% and expect to win a game, let alone deserve to.

EW needs to learn to stay out of foul trouble better. It cost them a shot at Uconn last month, and certainly cost them here. Can't forget that she's a freshman with a huge burden. She will be a great player.

Duvall
03-02-2012, 05:38 PM
The reason they lost is 100% free throw shooting. You can't shoot <50% and expect to win a game, let alone deserve to.


That's quite wrong. Poor free throw shooting nights are a statistically inevitability. The key is never be close enough to a team that you should be beating by 20 points for one of the nights to lead to an embarrassing loss.

uh_no
03-02-2012, 05:43 PM
That's quite wrong. Poor free throw shooting nights are a statistically inevitability. The key is never be close enough to a team that you should be beating by 20 points for one of the nights to lead to an embarrassing loss.

I disagree. I will probably get some stats later, but I would guess that the standard deviation on free throw shooting is actually pretty small.

Either way, that's a fair point....there are other things that need to improve. Turnovers stand out.

throatybeard
03-02-2012, 06:02 PM
Well, at least Mrs Harper is rather attractive.

Duvall
03-02-2012, 06:13 PM
EW needs to learn to stay out of foul trouble better.

Yeah, if she can learn how to stop committing player control fouls while standing completely still, it could really help.

uh_no
03-02-2012, 06:27 PM
Yeah, if she can learn how to stop committing player control fouls while standing completely still, it could really help.

I'm not saying she's at fault for committing the falls, she needs to figure out how to not get called for them. If it means learning how to play effective defense while doing something that doesn't look like the foul to a ref, then she need to learn it. I'll add Haley into that group too.

The fouls cost them against uconn, and they cost them today. If the refs make bad calls all the time, one has to figure out how to act so the ref doesn't call it. It sort of the anti flop. One flops because one can get a call for a foul that wasn't there. You gotta figure out how to use body language, positioning, whatever to NOT get called for fouls that aren't there.

Edouble
03-02-2012, 06:56 PM
So much for Coach P being a genius.

Wow-- that is harsh. Winning the big one may or may not prove one is a genius, but losing a game like this doesn't prove you are not. The men lost to NC State in the first game of the 1997 ACC Tourney as the top seed. I know that Coach K is a genius though.

msdukie
03-02-2012, 07:26 PM
Wow-- that is harsh. Winning the big one may or may not prove one is a genius, but losing a game like this doesn't prove you are not. The men lost to NC State in the first game of the 1997 ACC Tourney as the top seed. I know that Coach K is a genius though.

And you can't compare a #1 - #9 upset in the men's game with the women's game because it isn't even close.

uh_no
03-02-2012, 08:19 PM
well, wake just beat miami.....so while a 1 seed is out of the picture, duke needs to hope maryland loses if they want to stay in the raleigh region

DukeBlueNikeShox
03-02-2012, 10:51 PM
well, wake just beat miami.....so while a 1 seed is out of the picture, duke needs to hope maryland loses if they want to stay in the raleigh region

For the #2 seed, I see: Duke, Maryland, Miami, Kentucky, and Tennessee as the main contenders. Even if UConn loses to Notre Dame in the Big East Tourney, I don't think they'll drop to a 2. If Maryland wins ACC tourney, they should be a lock, which would overcome a 1-3 record vs. the others in this group. Kentucky and Tenn should meet in the SEC Final, so that should cancel one out - especially since they split in the season. Also, both are currently 2-1 vs. the group. However, Tenn doesn't have a loss vs. a team that shouldn't make the tourney field (Duke vs. NC State, Maryland vs. VPI, Miami vs. UNC, Kentucky vs. MTSU) which may make the difference. Just a few things I'm sure that will be taken into consideration.

Also, it's important to remember that unlike the men, which uses the S-curve for seeding, the women primarily relies on the G-curve, which is Geographic region hosting. Raleigh is a host this year, so Duke may be a 2 or a 3 seed, for the sake of staying in the Raleigh regional...

Duvall
03-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Also, it's important to remember that unlike the men, which uses the S-curve for seeding, the women primarily relies on the G-curve, which is Geographic region hosting. Raleigh is a host this year, so Duke may be a 2 or a 3 seed, for the sake of staying in the Raleigh regional...

Or, more bluntly, the $-curve, which uses ticket sales as its primary consideration. Duke might drop to a 3 seed in the Raleigh regional, but they probably won't be sent elsewhere.

Kfanarmy
03-02-2012, 11:06 PM
And you can't compare a #1 - #9 upset in the men's game with the women's game because it isn't even close.

a 9 beating a 1-seed in the womens game is like the winner of the play in game beating the overall number one in the mens tourney....1 seeds I believe were 32-0 against 9 before today....

DukeBlueNikeShox
03-02-2012, 11:33 PM
a 9 beating a 1-seed in the womens game is like the winner of the play in game beating the overall number one in the mens tourney....1 seeds I believe were 32-0 against 9 before today....

Today's records:

1. First time Georgia Tech beat UNC in ACC Tournament history
2. First time a 9 seed has made the Tournament semifinals
3. First time Wake Forest has beaten a Top 10 team since 1993

uh_no
03-03-2012, 12:24 AM
For the #2 seed, I see: Duke, Maryland, Miami, Kentucky, and Tennessee as the main contenders. Even if UConn loses to Notre Dame in the Big East Tourney, I don't think they'll drop to a 2. If Maryland wins ACC tourney, they should be a lock, which would overcome a 1-3 record vs. the others in this group. Kentucky and Tenn should meet in the SEC Final, so that should cancel one out - especially since they split in the season. Also, both are currently 2-1 vs. the group. However, Tenn doesn't have a loss vs. a team that shouldn't make the tourney field (Duke vs. NC State, Maryland vs. VPI, Miami vs. UNC, Kentucky vs. MTSU) which may make the difference. Just a few things I'm sure that will be taken into consideration.

Also, it's important to remember that unlike the men, which uses the S-curve for seeding, the women primarily relies on the G-curve, which is Geographic region hosting. Raleigh is a host this year, so Duke may be a 2 or a 3 seed, for the sake of staying in the Raleigh regional...

That would mean moving what should be higher overall ranked maryland out to the rhode island region. You make a fair point though about geographay being much more important. (plus I think the committee is still paying "reparations" for having #1 duke play MSU at their place.....by having a pod in cameron and then a region in raleigh)

Jim3k
03-03-2012, 03:35 AM
I agree that the loss to 9-seed State is a bad loss. Such a loss is not entirely unprecedented, however. It hadn't happened in the ACC tournament before and perhaps some of it can be said to be due to the Richa Jackson injury.

Even so, the worst such loss occurred in 1998 in the NCAAs when No. 1 Stanford was upset by 16-seed Harvard. Like Duke's loss of Jackson, Stanford had just lost two players due to injury, Vanessa Nygaard and Kristin Folkl. In both cases gaps appeared in what were/are fundamentally solid teams. I don't know for sure that Jackson's presence would have changed things, but it seems likely since she played when Duke beat State earlier in the season. Still, you play with the people you have and soldier on.

I think Duke could have won today--better board work, hitting free throws, reducing turnovers, avoiding defensive lapses--but State played an inspired game. It's probably best to just move on, let the women fix what can be fixed and hope for the best.

uh_no
03-03-2012, 11:10 AM
I agree that the loss to 9-seed State is a bad loss. Such a loss is not entirely unprecedented, however. It hadn't happened in the ACC tournament before and perhaps some of it can be said to be due to the Richa Jackson injury.

Even so, the worst such loss occurred in 1998 in the NCAAs when No. 1 Stanford was upset by 16-seed Harvard. Like Duke's loss of Jackson, Stanford had just lost two players due to injury, Vanessa Nygaard and Kristin Folkl. In both cases gaps appeared in what were/are fundamentally solid teams. I don't know for sure that Jackson's presence would have changed things, but it seems likely since she played when Duke beat State earlier in the season. Still, you play with the people you have and soldier on.

I think Duke could have won today--better board work, hitting free throws, reducing turnovers, avoiding defensive lapses--but State played an inspired game. It's probably best to just move on, let the women fix what can be fixed and hope for the best.

WE depend heavily on freshmen. Freshmen are freshmen....the best thing about them is they become sophomores.

DU82
03-03-2012, 01:48 PM
That would mean moving what should be higher overall ranked maryland out to the rhode island region. You make a fair point though about geographay being much more important. (plus I think the committee is still paying "reparations" for having #1 duke play MSU at their place.....by having a pod in cameron and then a region in raleigh)

I disagree with Maryland automatically being a higher overall seed. Duke finished two games ahead, split the season series, and the State loss in the ACC tourney is nowhere near as bad as losing at home to VT. While winning the ACC tournament will probably lift Maryland ahead, I still think they're the number two seed in the East, with UConn, and Duke, after traveling to a lower seed's home court for the first two rounds (unless the Smurfs aren't included) will get to be the number two seed in the South (Raleigh.). I also don't think Raleigh gives the Terps any advantage, in fact since you believe they're a higher seed, being in a bracket with a lower number 1 (UConn instead of ND), makes sense.

If Miami didn't lose to Wake, they'd have an argument for Raleigh instead of Duke.

uh_no
03-03-2012, 02:06 PM
I disagree with Maryland automatically being a higher overall seed. Duke finished two games ahead, split the season series, and the State loss in the ACC tourney is nowhere near as bad as losing at home to VT. While winning the ACC tournament will probably lift Maryland ahead, I still think they're the number two seed in the East, with UConn, and Duke, after traveling to a lower seed's home court for the first two rounds (unless the Smurfs aren't included) will get to be the number two seed in the South (Raleigh.). I also don't think Raleigh gives the Terps any advantage, in fact since you believe they're a higher seed, being in a bracket with a lower number 1 (UConn instead of ND), makes sense.

If Miami didn't lose to Wake, they'd have an argument for Raleigh instead of Duke.

First, geography trumps overall seed balance on the top two lines, so if maryland is higher overall than duke, they'll get the closer location.

The loss in the tournament here will weigh heavily on the committee's mind, especially if maryland were to win the title. I think they'll be higher overall, you think they won't. We may end up in raleigh anyway since the women's tournament often values ticket sales over proper seeding....so if I were betting, I'd put duke in raleigh as the 2 seed.

dukelifer
03-03-2012, 02:48 PM
WE depend heavily on freshmen. Freshmen are freshmen....the best thing about them is they become sophomores.

I did not see the game- but some young teams don't handle the moment well. Hopefully, the game taught them some lessons. Also, the outcome may have been different if this had been the first game for both. Teams that play the first day- have a little advantage and they also have nothing to lose. The good teams need to play to conserve energy. Tough sometimes to match intensity. Even on the Men's side- the second day ACC tourney contests are often very close regardless of rankings. Teams have to execute down the stretch. March is all amount playing well and smart at the end of games. You just down get big blowouts that often.

Duvall
03-03-2012, 03:12 PM
I disagree with Maryland automatically being a higher overall seed. Duke finished two games ahead, split the season series, and the State loss in the ACC tourney is nowhere near as bad as losing at home to VT.

Maryland actually finished three games back of Duke in conference play, but the Terps made up some of the difference with an unambitious nonconference schedule. You would hate to see them rewarded for that, but Duke would have no one to blame but themselves.

CameronBornAndBred
03-03-2012, 03:36 PM
It will be a Maryland - Georgia Tech final. Should be a good game. Pulling for the Wreck, I don't care for Brenda much.

Jim3k
03-03-2012, 03:43 PM
WE depend heavily on freshmen. Freshmen are freshmen....the best thing about them is they become sophomores.

That's not quite accurate. We rely heavily on only one freshman, Elizabeth Williams. Of the other three freshmen, Amber Henson is an injury redshirt, Jenna Frush is a mop-up walk-on and Ka'lia Johnson has only played sparingly, though she shows promise.

DU82
03-03-2012, 03:48 PM
First, geography trumps overall seed balance on the top two lines, so if maryland is higher overall than duke, they'll get the closer location.

The loss in the tournament here will weigh heavily on the committee's mind, especially if maryland were to win the title. I think they'll be higher overall, you think they won't. We may end up in raleigh anyway since the women's tournament often values ticket sales over proper seeding....so if I were betting, I'd put duke in raleigh as the 2 seed.

I agree that attendance is more important for the women's tournament. I also agree that if Maryland beats a really good team like Georgia Tech tomorrow, they'll be a higher number 2 seed (I don't see us dropping from the 2 line.) But I still see them going to the east region with UConn.

stillcrazie
03-03-2012, 03:59 PM
Wow-- that is harsh. Winning the big one may or may not prove one is a genius, but losing a game like this doesn't prove you are not. The men lost to NC State in the first game of the 1997 ACC Tourney as the top seed. I know that Coach K is a genius though.

I just don't find Coach P to be inspiring, although her recruiting has been outstanding (her or her assistant coaches' recruiting). This team did not seem emotionally prepared for the game.

sagegrouse
03-03-2012, 06:26 PM
I just don't find Coach P to be inspiring, although her recruiting has been outstanding (her or her assistant coaches' recruiting). This team did not seem emotionally prepared for the game.

We "tanked" the game, as the tennis pros say. It is not a moral judgment: We were playing poorly, but winning. Rather than do what was working, emphasize defense, and finish off the Pack, we started flailing around the last ten minutes and had the wheels come off the cart. I saw numerous poor passes and fumbled balls, as well as low-percentage offensive plays, that contributed to the loss.

sagegrouse

uh_no
03-04-2012, 04:22 PM
Well UMD just wrapped up the title, so if there was a question before, I think right now maryland has certainly made a very strong case for a better overall seed than duke....putting in question whether duke will end up in raleigh.....puts the committee in a tight space whether they give md the advantage for having a higher seed, or duke the advantage for selling tickets

uh_no
03-05-2012, 12:49 PM
for what its worth, charlie creme currently has duke in rhode island and maryland in raleigh as 2 seeds