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Bluedawg
07-26-2007, 11:31 AM
Bobby Petrino announced that Joey Harrington will be the starting QB this year. Joey Harrington (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/649631.html)who
has done little to justify being the third overall pick in the 2002 draft. He was let go by the Detroit Lions after going 18-37 as a starter. During one year with the Miami Dolphins, he started 11 games but lost that job, too, after putting up a passer rating of 0.0 in a game against the Buffalo Bills near the end of the season.

On the bench they have QB D.J. Shockley (http://recruiting.scout.com/2/476286.html) who made the 2005 Scout.com All-SEC Team and was Offensive Player of the Year. D.J. is a Vick type QB who would fit into the current offense nicely instead of a drop back passer who "has done little to justify being the third overall pick in the 2002 draft."

After all
the Atlanta Falcons hired Bobby Petrino because they thought he could turn Michael Vick into a complete quarterback Why not use that same philosophy with D.J. Shockley

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/251857.jpg

Mal
07-26-2007, 03:01 PM
Perhaps they're thinking you don't dive into training camp by handing the most important position on the team to a guy who was drafted in the 7th round and has never taken a snap in the NFL. Quibble with the signing of Harrington over other available free agent rental QBs, bemoan letting go of Schaub, but no GM or head coach in their right mind is going to turn the keys over to Shockley before camp even starts. He'll have plenty of time to supplant Harrington.

Every QB drafted into the NFL is All-something or other. I'm sure Shockley's good, but there's a reason he fell to a team that already had two starters, in the second to last round of the draft.

rthomas
07-26-2007, 04:26 PM
This may have been said in another post, but Petrino must be second guessing his move from an up and coming Louisville team. Then moving Matt Staub to the Texans. Looking back, that was not a good move.

JDSBlueDevl
07-26-2007, 06:10 PM
If this doesn't confirm the assertion that Michael Vick is a career-killer for a coach, then nothing will. You can quibble regarding Dan Reeves (who was older than Vermeil was when he finally retired), but what happened to Jim Mora was all on Vick.

killerleft
07-26-2007, 07:55 PM
Michael Vick has not been convicted yet. Though it seems he is guilty right now, I remember and will never forget the people who jumped on the bandwagon and made it seem that three Duke lacrosse players had committed a heinous crime against a defenseless victim.

The Group of 88 are puzzling out the race, class, and financial situation of the dogs before putting out a statement. They are sure there is something in it for them, however.

Mal
07-27-2007, 10:33 AM
Michael Vick has not been convicted yet. Though it seems he is guilty right now, I remember and will never forget the people who jumped on the bandwagon and made it seem that three Duke lacrosse players had committed a heinous crime against a defenseless victim.

The Group of 88 are puzzling out the race, class, and financial situation of the dogs before putting out a statement. They are sure there is something in it for them, however.

I'm sorry if this seems too defensive, but to whom/what are you referring? None of the points in the posts above are reliant on anyone asserting, or even assuming, that Michael Vick will be wearing a bright orange jersey the rest of his career. He has been barred from training camp by the commissioner of the NFL, and even if he's exonerated next week he's unlikely to see a field this season. If he were, it would be a complete circus. The Falcons have a personnel issue to deal with, period. No moral or legal judgments are necessary to come to the conclusion that NFL teams need quarterbacks, that training camp starts next week, and that Michael Vick won't be there for awhile.

Maybe you just meant to comment on the situation in general, or media play, or whatever. Perhaps that should have been put in its own thread? Be careful where and when you throw around the term "Gang of 88," please. I don't want it anywhere near a post of mine, in which I'm discussing nothing more than the relative football playing merits of Joey Harrington and D.J. Shockley, and never once use the name Vick.

Bluedawg
07-27-2007, 10:38 AM
This may have been said in another post, but Petrino must be second guessing his move from an up and coming Louisville team. Then moving Matt Staub to the Texans. Looking back, that was not a good move.

good point. i would be it I were him. and i'm a huge falcons fan!

Bluedawg
07-27-2007, 10:40 AM
If this doesn't confirm the assertion that Michael Vick is a career-killer for a coach, then nothing will. You can quibble regarding Dan Reeves (who was older than Vermeil was when he finally retired), but what happened to Jim Mora was all on Vick.

Don't agree. Jim Mora had bad offensive schemes for Vick. he wanted too much to make him a pocket passer. what happened to Jim Mora was all on Mora

Bluedawg
07-27-2007, 10:44 AM
I'm sorry if this seems too defensive, but to whom/what are you referring? None of the points in the posts above are reliant on anyone asserting, or even assuming, that Michael Vick will be wearing a bright orange jersey the rest of his career. He has been barred from training camp by the commissioner of the NFL, and even if he's exonerated next week he's unlikely to see a field this season. If he were, it would be a complete circus. The Falcons have a personnel issue to deal with, period. No moral or legal judgments are necessary to come to the conclusion that NFL teams need quarterbacks, that training camp starts next week, and that Michael Vick won't be there for awhile.

Maybe you just meant to comment on the situation in general, or media play, or whatever. Perhaps that should have been put in its own thread? Be careful where and when you throw around the term "Gang of 88," please. I don't want it anywhere near a post of mine, in which I'm discussing nothing more than the relative football playing merits of Joey Harrington and D.J. Shockley, and never once use the name Vick.

you are correct. the proper home for this post is probably NFL tells Vick, Stay Out (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2744) or Vick indicted (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2665).

killerleft
07-27-2007, 12:14 PM
My post, of course, was a response to the general media circus surrounding Vick, and was not meant to be an attack on anyone.

But to Mal and Bluedawg, I understand your points and agree I should have posted elsewhere. Sorry.

Mal
07-27-2007, 01:17 PM
No worries, that's what I figured. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't being tossed in with the angry mob! :)

Bluedawg
07-27-2007, 11:34 PM
Perhaps they're thinking you don't dive into training camp by handing the most important position on the team to a guy who was drafted in the 7th round and has never taken a snap in the NFL. Quibble with the signing of Harrington over other available free agent rental QBs, bemoan letting go of Schaub, but no GM or head coach in their right mind is going to turn the keys over to Shockley before camp even starts. He'll have plenty of time to supplant Harrington.

Every QB drafted into the NFL is All-something or other. I'm sure Shockley's good, but there's a reason he fell to a team that already had two starters, in the second to last round of the draft.

I considered this before my post, but to be fair, DJ played at GA the same time as David Greene. Anyone would have wound up playing second fiddle and not able to really "strut his stuff." Additionally, I feel NFL coaches are way to dependent on the pocket passer and therefore are unable to deal with a QB with DJ's style of play.

However, I'm not sure a starting QB should have been named, especially one who has failed to live up to expectations and one with such a drastic change in play.

Channing
07-29-2007, 11:21 PM
fwiw - all reports out of Atlanta training camp is that DJ Shockley cant hit the broad side of a barn. While he may have a similar skill set to Vick, he has nowhere near the level of skill that Vick has.

Joey Harrington gives the Falcons the best cahnce to win this year - its going to be a long season,

Bluedawg
07-30-2007, 12:05 AM
While he may have a similar skill set to Vick, he has nowhere near the level of skill that Vick has.

really now...who does?


fwiw - all reports out of Atlanta training camp is that DJ Shockley cant hit the broad side of a barn.

All i know is that he did a good job at GA.


Joey Harrington gives the Falcons the best cahnce to win this year - its going to be a long season,

How, where has he given any team he has played for a "chance to win"?

A-Tex Devil
07-30-2007, 09:34 AM
really now...who does?



All i know is that he did a good job at GA.



How, where has he given any team he has played for a "chance to win"?

If you are going to use UGa as a measuring stick for Shockley, I think it's fair to say Joey Harrington was a huge winner at Oregon. Shockley was solid in college, but I saw nothing that indicated he could translate to the NFL. Heck, the guy he sat behind for three years is third string (can't remember where).

I think both Harrington, and eventually David Carr, are going to see their careers rehabilitated a bit a la a Jets era Vinnie Testaverde. They will never be pro-bowlers, but I think given the right circumstances can lead teams to the playoffs. Both just happened to play on horribly mismanaged teams since the time they were drafted. That's faint praise, I know, but where Harrington and Carr have ended up is ot entirely their fault.

Channing
07-30-2007, 09:41 AM
really now...who does?



All i know is that he did a good job at GA.



How, where has he given any team he has played for a "chance to win"?

(1) He did manage to win six games in Detroit - which I think is somewhat amazing.

(2) I also watched DJ at Georgia, in fact I was at UGA the only season he started, and saw him play every home game that year. At no point did he strike me as an NFL quarterback. Tee Martin was very good at UT, and even more recently, both Chris Leak and Troy Smith were very good at UF and OSU and I would be shocked if either of them are ever really given a chance to start.

(3) David Greene is third string in Seattle.

(4) Truth be told, the quarterback who was the most accurate, at least for the first half of last week, was Chris Redman. However, Harrington is still going to be the guy in Atlanta.

Bluedawg
07-30-2007, 10:39 AM
If you are going to use UGa as a measuring stick for Shockley, I think it's fair to say Joey Harrington was a huge winner at Oregon.

What I'm using is their resume. Shockly's only resume is from GA while Harrington has a NFL resume. Shockly's is one of success, what is Harrington's?


They will never be pro-bowlers, but I think given the right circumstances can lead teams to the playoffs.

I'm not willing to settle. i want a pro-bowler at QB and Super bowl championships. I'm reaching to grab the brass ring, not just reaching for it.

Bluedawg
07-30-2007, 10:48 AM
[QUOTE=steven52682;33644 Truth be told, the quarterback who was the most accurate, at least for the first half of last week, was Chris Redman. However, Harrington is still going to be the guy in Atlanta.[/QUOTE]

you may be right but why do we have to settle for Harrington?

What I'm afraid will happen is that, in order to avoid the "QB by committee" tag Bobby Petrino is going to put Harrington there and regardless of what happens leave him there just so he won't have to admit that his first big decision as a NFL head coach was wrong. i think he made it originally so that he wouldn't be tagged as not being able to make big NFL decisions.

Channing
07-30-2007, 11:11 AM
you may be right but why do we have to settle for Harrington?

What I'm afraid will happen is that, in order to avoid the "QB by committee" tag Bobby Petrino is going to put Harrington there and regardless of what happens leave him there just so he won't have to admit that his first big decision as a NFL head coach was wrong. i think he made it originally so that he wouldn't be tagged as not being able to make big NFL decisions.

If Harrington stinks up the joint I dont think that he will necessarily be left in there no matter what. In fact the rumors out of Atlanta last week were that the Falcons were looking at both Chris Simms and Mark Brunell. If DJ practices like an NFL player he'll get his chance, I just dont think that he is good enough to be anything more than a third stringer and maybe possibly a second stringer.

A-Tex Devil
07-30-2007, 12:24 PM
What I'm using is their resume. Shockly's only resume is from GA while Harrington has a NFL resume. Shockly's is one of success, what is Harrington's?



I'm not willing to settle. i want a pro-bowler at QB and Super bowl championships. I'm reaching to grab the brass ring, not just reaching for it.

I'm not suggesting settling, but considering it's almost August, bird in hand for 2007, you know (pardon the pun). DJ Shockley ain't taking the Falcons anywhere this year. Additionally, it will be a successful season if the Falcons make the playoffs at this point. With a strong running game and protection, Joey H. can get you to 10 wins, I think, if he plays solidly, even if not spectacularly. Who else other than Culpepper is even an option?

I will admit, he's a stop gap, and given the opportunity, the Falcons should go after the best free-agent/draft pick QB out there next year. But it could be a lot worse. If Shockley is truly the QB of the future, the Falcons might give him a go, but I haven't seen anyone in the NFL media argue against Harrington over him.

JasonEvans
07-30-2007, 07:25 PM
What I'm using is their resume. Shockly's only resume is from GA while Harrington has a NFL resume. Shockly's is one of success, what is Harrington's?


You are aware that Shockley has been on the Falcon's roster for 2 full seasons without taking a single snap... not once... in a NFL game. The reason we only have his ONE SEASON AS A STARTER AT GA as a resume is because he was not good enough to be a starter before that at GA and he has not been good enough yet with the Falcons to make it into a game. We are not talking about a kid who has wowed in pre-season games either.

Hey, I'd love for him to be a diamond in the rough for the Falcons, but there is no evidence at all he will be. The team is taking the smart way and going with an established, proven NFL QB for now. If Harrington stinks it up, they will consider other options.

-Jason "I think it is worth giving Harrington a chance-- his previous situations in Detroit and Miami were doomed to failure" Evans

Channing
07-30-2007, 09:01 PM
do you think Bobby Petrino might be looking to draft Brian Brohm next year assuming the Falcons land up in the 8th-13th pick range.

JasonEvans
07-31-2007, 09:25 PM
do you think Bobby Petrino might be looking to draft Brian Brohm next year assuming the Falcons land up in the 8th-13th pick range.

Many folks think Brohm will be gone before then. I am pretty sure he is considered the #1 QB prospect in next year's draft at this absurdly early point in the process.

-Jason "I think the Falcons may be picking before #8... though I hope not" Evans

AtlBluRew
08-01-2007, 09:00 AM
do you think Bobby Petrino might be looking to draft Brian Brohm next year assuming the Falcons land up in the 8th-13th pick range.

I'm hoping for Colt Brennan out of Hawaii.

Bluedawg
08-01-2007, 11:46 PM
You are aware that Shockley has been on the Falcon's roster for 2 full seasons without taking a single snap... not once... in a NFL game. The reason we only have his ONE SEASON AS A STARTER AT GA as a resume is because he was not good enough to be a starter before that at GA and he has not been good enough yet with the Falcons to make it into a game. We are not talking about a kid who has wowed in pre-season games either.

Hey, I'd love for him to be a diamond in the rough for the Falcons, but there is no evidence at all he will be. The team is taking the smart way and going with an established, proven NFL QB for now. If Harrington stinks it up, they will consider other options.

-Jason "I think it is worth giving Harrington a chance-- his previous situations in Detroit and Miami were doomed to failure" Evans

he is playing behind Vick, which is why he has not started.

I remember a player, running back, years ago named William Andrews. (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AndrWi00.htm) I played against him in high school and he single handedly ended our perfect season and kept us out of the state championship, but I'm over that now. but i digress.

In college he was used as a blocking back and he was drafted by the falcons as a blocking back because thats all they knew he could do. One day in practice they gave him the ball and he scored. they were shocked, and in 6 years he rushed for 5986 yards and 2647 yards receiving and 4 Pro Bowls. By chance he was given a chance.

My point, the Falcons have been focused on Vick and Vick only. I think it is worth giving him a chance. In his situation in Atlanta and at UGA he was playing behind some pretty good QBs.