Shocking news! Bill simmons doesn't like us!

[gethlives]

Looks like Duke has made an enemy of Bill Simmons aka ESPN's Sports Guy. https://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33/status/174563431347789824

Could be interesting.

[David]

Bill Simmons just tweeted the following:

"Duke wouldn't credential Grantland for Saturday's UNC-Duke game. I already hated Duke but was diplomatic about it... no more. IT IS ON!"

http://twitter.com/#!/SportsGuy33

Interesting that they wouldn't credential Grantland for the game. I thought Shane Ryan wrote a great article on the first UNC game in Chapel Hill earlier this season.

[Duvall]

Bill Simmons

...

Could be interesting.

That seems unlikely.

[MCFinARL]

That seems unlikely.

Touche!

[MCFinARL]

Bill Simmons just tweeted the following:

"Duke wouldn't credential Grantland for Saturday's UNC-Duke game. I already hated Duke but was diplomatic about it... no more. IT IS ON!"

http://twitter.com/#!/SportsGuy33

Interesting that they wouldn't credential Grantland for the game. I thought Shane Ryan wrote a great article on the first UNC game in Chapel Hill earlier this season.

Well, they have more seats at Chapel Hill, and Duke-UNC tickets in Cameron are a VERY popular commodity--could it be as simple as that?

[hurleyfor3]

He doesn't deserve to attend a Duke/unc game in Cameron. Maybe the athletic department is choosing to reserve press passes to people who actually try to behave like journalists. Kudos to them.

[superdave]

I would be interested in who they actually denied a pass to. Was it Shane Ryan or Simmons? Also if you write for Grantland, shouldnt you just say Grantland/Espn? Or since Espn is covering the game, let the Grantland guy carry some equipment in and look useful.

[loran16]

I would be interested in who they actually denied a pass to. Was it Shane Ryan or Simmons? Also if you write for Grantland, shouldnt you just say Grantland/Espn? Or since Espn is covering the game, let the Grantland guy carry some equipment in and look useful.

Given his tweet, my guess is him or some other Grantland writer than Ryan. I'd think Ryan would joke about it on twitter.

[Duvall]

I would be interested in who they actually denied a pass to. Was it Shane Ryan or Simmons? Also if you write for Grantland, shouldnt you just say Grantland/Espn? Or since Espn is covering the game, let the Grantland guy carry some equipment in and look useful.

Here's the thing - the game's already getting saturation coverage from the rightsholder, including ESPN.com writers. How many ESPN-paid bloggers is Duke supposed to credential, anyway?

[mkline09]

I find it funny that Simmons would even suggest thta he hsa ever been diplomatic about his disliking Duke. It is painfully obvious from every time I have ever seen him dicuss or talk about Duke that he doesn't like them.

That said the up in arms ravings of Duke fans condeming him is exactly what he wants.

[weezie]

So, what, is he going to cry about it?

Waaaah!!! Big baby....

[Starter]

My guess would be they applied this week or something, and they simply don't have room on press row. I don't like Simmons very much, but I'd think if they had the room, they'd credential him. Worse stuff has probably been written on Duke than what Grantland has run, and I doubt they blackball people because of it. (If so, I'd think Gregg Doyel would have been long gone)

[killerleft]

I guess being Richard Simmons' son isn't a door-opener anymore?

[Genedoc]

Seth Davis with the appropriate response, also via Twitter:

"@sportsguy33 I'm sure that scares them Bill! How many ESPN staffers are being credentialed?"

That also probably explains why Duke rejected. "Hey, look, we're already credentialing XX ESPN folks, do we really need more?"

[OldPhiKap]

At the risk of sounding foolish -- who the hell is Bill Simmons, and why should I care?

Not joking, just never heard of the guy or the group that didn't get credentialled.

Maybe I'm just too 3G in a 4G world, though.

[Kedsy]

I find it funny that Simmons would even suggest thta he hsa ever been diplomatic about his disliking Duke.

I agree. If he really thinks he's been hiding his hate for Duke, that's one of the funnier things I've heard in awhile.

[davekay1971]

Bill Simmons has worn his position as a non-traditionalist-journalist (or non-journalist-blogger) on his sleeve with pride. The majority of his career, and success, has been his entertaining writing style, writing from the point of view of an average fan. Now he's not getting the perks of being a mainstream journalist and he's upset about it? He should cover the game the same way he usually covers sporting events - from his living room, hanging out with his dad, blogging in real time.

Let ESPN's stable of non-journalists-posing-as-journalists (rather than their resident non-journalist-who-openly-admits-to-being-a-non-journalist) cover the game at Cameron.

[slower]

who the hell is Bill Simmons, and why should I care?


That is the correct response. :)

[Atlanta Duke]

Bill Simmons has worn his position as a non-traditionalist-journalist (or non-journalist-blogger) on his sleeve with pride. The majority of his career, and success, has been his entertaining writing style, writing from the point of view of an average fan. Now he's not getting the perks of being a mainstream journalist and he's upset about it?

Bingo

Because he grew up in Boston, Simmons is a pro sports fan who made his name writing his Sports Guy columns when the Red Sox and Patriots werre riding high.

If it was Simmons who wanted the credential he is on record that college games are worthy of his attention only insofar as they provide a preview of future pros - if attending the Duke-Carolina game at Cameron is on his bucket list Simmons can afford a scalped ticket. If it was someone else at Grantland, the World Wide Leader in sports already has numerous credentials for Saturday night without passing out another one to a vanity project created to keep Simmons at ESPN.

Simmons threatening to trash Duke, for which he is on record as having contempt, is not exactly the equivalent of him turning on Tom Brady and the Patriots. :)

[Chicago 1995]

Bill Simmons just tweeted the following:

"Duke wouldn't credential Grantland for Saturday's UNC-Duke game. I already hated Duke but was diplomatic about it... no more. IT IS ON!"

http://twitter.com/#!/SportsGuy33

Interesting that they wouldn't credential Grantland for the game. I thought Shane Ryan wrote a great article on the first UNC game in Chapel Hill earlier this season.

Despite the fact that there's probably a good reason for this, picking a fight with Simmons doesn't make much sense to me. He's widely read, even if the majority of this board looks down his or her nose at Simmons, and there's no reason to have someone that widely read, and whether or not you like it influential, putting a bullseye on your back. It's a PR risk that it doesn't make much sense to take.

[jafarr1]

Despite the fact that there's probably a good reason for this, picking a fight with Simmons doesn't make much sense to me. He's widely read, even if the majority of this board looks down his or her nose at Simmons, and there's no reason to have someone that widely read, and whether or not you like it influential, putting a bullseye on your back. It's a PR risk that it doesn't make much sense to take.

Unless ESPN already has four people attending the game.

[rsvman]

Unless ESPN already has four people attending the game.

And he's already trashing us anyway.

[Duvall]

Despite the fact that there's probably a good reason for this, picking a fight with Simmons doesn't make much sense to me. He's widely read, even if the majority of this board looks down his or her nose at Simmons, and there's no reason to have someone that widely read, and whether or not you like it influential, putting a bullseye on your back. It's a PR risk that it doesn't make much sense to take.

What would Duke be risking, exactly? If there's one thing the last decade has taught us, it's that earning the petulant derision of new media lowlifes has had at most a marginal impact on Duke's success both on and off the court. So what difference would one more whining blogger make?

[Atlanta Duke]

And he's already trashing us anyway.

Yep - not hard to do a search of Bill Simmons and Duke basketball to get gems like this

Nothing unites basketball fans like hanging out in a bar and rooting against Duke...

It's absolutely incredible how many people despise Duke and how the entire place galvanized behind Belmont at the end like it was the 1980 Olympic hockey team. If Belmont had pulled off the upset victory, there's a 25 percent chance that we'd still be there drinking and celebrating four days later.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

Or this one where a reader asked if he should attend Darrtmoth or Princeton, to which Simmons responded stay away from Duke:)

I'm 18 and just graduated high school. When my college decisions came in in April, I narrowed down my choices to Dartmouth and Princeton...

[Simmons] Anyway, I can't let you attend Duke or Princeton. Everyone hates Duke and the list of insufferable jerks from Princeton is longer than all the other Ivies combined.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090717

It's pretty much an act - Simmons saves his true vitriol for the New York pro teams who beat up on the Red Sox and Patriots

[superdave]

He'd probably change his mind if he knew Red coached at Duke briefly.

[Duvall]

Actual reporter Richard Deitsch inquires and explains: (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g5uh3s)


According to Duke, ESPN's umbrella of networks, websites and branches have 10 seats on press row for the game, as well as a photographer spot, multiple camera spots required to air the game, and access for College GameDay.

Duke says they would love to accommodate each legitimate request but because of space issues at Cameron, Duke says they must make some some tough decisions for the UNC game. One of those decisions, according to Duke, is the inability to credential blog sites and websites that do not attempt to cover the team on a regular basis. Duke says they communicated this to Grantland's Sarah Larimer who requested a credential for Shane Ryan. The university received a courtesy reply from her on Feb. 22 and then nothing more from anyone at Grantland.

Until today. Via Twitter.

[Bluedog]

Actual reporter Richard Deitsch inquires and explains: (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g5uh3s)

Nice find. If the editor-of-chief of any publication/site changes his twitter profile picture to be "Specific team sucks" as Bill Simmons has now done for Duke, I think it's safe to say he's not a legitimate professional journalist. 10 people from ESPN seems like plenty. How many can even fit on press row?

Although if it was for Shane Ryan, he's a Duke grad and fan, so would certainly be much better than letting Simmons in. Maybe he has some alumni connections to get a ticket.

[Lord Ash]

Duvall, your link isn't working for me...?

And yeah, forget Bill Simmons. If I were handling press passes at Duke, I would keep an eye out for a single negative story from him or his employees. The second I saw one that would be the end of any credentials he would ever ask for.

F with the bull, get the horns... especially if you are some unprofessional "journalist" like this guy. He always hated Duke, but now he won't try to hide it? Maybe journalist isn't the right word for him?

[cspan37421]

Based on the information that has come out this far, Bill Simmons sounds like the kind of whiny, petulant child with an entitlement mentality that he imagines the students of our campus are. He's openly said, in so many (characters) that we shouldn't take him seriously as a journalist ... imagine the exaggerated sense of self-importance he must have to be shocked when someone takes him up on his self-characterization (even if, by luck, there are other reasons to not credential him or his underlings).

[uh_no]

Based on the information that has come out this far, Bill Simmons sounds like the kind of whiny, petulant child with an entitlement mentality that he imagines the students of our campus are. He's openly said, in so many (characters) that we shouldn't take him seriously as a journalist ... imagine the exaggerated sense of self-importance he must have to be shocked when someone takes him up on his self-characterization (even if, by luck, there are other reasons to not credential him or his underlings).

Well, apparently we've followed his own instructions......and limited press row to serious journalists

[Kdogg]

In other news Gregg Doyel doesn't like us either.

This is more of a pr stunt than anything. Grantland hasn't taken off like Simmons (and ESPN) though it would. It's slowly building a following but if stuff like this get picked up the site gets more exposure.

[uh_no]

In other news Gregg Doyel doesn't like us either.

This is more of a pr stunt than anything. Grantland hasn't taken off like Simmons (and ESPN) though it would. It's slowly building a following but if stuff like this get picked up the site gets more exposure.

I mean....there's only so much fake sports news people can consume.....at some point people want actual sports news, and not a caricature thereof.

[David]

The only negative here is that Shane Ryan won't be writing a game article from Cameron. Along with Chuck Klosterman, he is the best thing about Grantland.

[HateCarolina]

In other news Gregg Doyel doesn't like us either.

This is more of a pr stunt than anything. Grantland hasn't taken off like Simmons (and ESPN) though it would. It's slowly building a following but if stuff like this get picked up the site gets more exposure.

I read a number of random sports blogs, but I can honestly say I have no idea what "Grantland" is. I know who and have read Bill Simmons "articles" before, but I agree with other posters that he's trying to ride the Duke/unc game coat tails in an effort to promote himself.

[blazindw]

As I told Bill Simmons on Twitter, you diss my school and then you want to get into the game featuring the biggest rivalry in college basketball...for FREE?

Nah homie, you wait until UNC-G comes to town.

[Andy7207]

I understand Duke's decision to not give Grantland credentials. But honestly, in defense of Mr. Simmons, there's no need to get in such a huff about this tweet. Most of his tweets are not serious in nature. And for all of his "Duke-hating", he has said multiple times that he would encourage any of his kids to go to Duke. He is very objective and complimentary about Duke players in the NBA, like Luol and JJ (and he hates Rasheed and Vince Carter). This banter just makes it seem like we can't take a joke.

[jipops]

I'm still waiting for a decent book about the NBA. The way I see it, Simmons owes me $13. But I'm not going crazy about it.

[blazindw]

I understand Duke's decision to not give Grantland credentials. But honestly, in defense of Mr. Simmons, there's no need to get in such a huff about this tweet. Most of his tweets are not serious in nature. And for all of his "Duke-hating", he has said multiple times that he would encourage any of his kids to go to Duke. He is very objective and complimentary about Duke players in the NBA, like Luol and JJ (and he hates Rasheed and Vince Carter). This banter just makes it seem like we can't take a joke.

Sorry, but his 1.6 million followers are going to see his Twitter profile pic for the next few days: http://www.twitter.com/sportsguy33. This doesn't seem very tongue-in-cheek.

[CrazieDUMB]

As a fan of Bill Simmons, I feel I should chime in here. I can understand why people wouldn't be a fan of his style, as he certainly doesn't write the way any traditional journalist would write. What he does do, however, is incredibly, incredibly, INCREDIBLY popular. He's right along Rick Reilly as ESPN's highest paid writer, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's the most wide-read sports columnist in the country. Further, his podcast is one of the most popular downloads on iTunes.

As far as his views on Duke, I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't hate Duke. He's made some snide comments (which have been brought up throughout this thread), but you have to understand that this is kind of his style. He likes to rib people, and he especially likes to poke fun at large fan bases. He taps into the average fan, and puts forth popular positions. When it comes down to it though, and when he speaks truthfully, he's very appreciative of Duke. As stated before, he loves Redick and Deng. During and after the Olympics, he could not stop talking about how great K was and how he made every person on that team (all NBA superstars) much better players.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't get offended, because he likes to poke fun. I'm very familiar with his work, which isn't pulitzer-worthy by any means but is very entertaining. Try not to take every barb so seriously!

[jipops]

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't get offended, because he likes to poke fun. I'm very familiar with his work, which isn't pulitzer-worthy by any means but is very entertaining. Try not to take every barb so seriously!

I completely agree that the sentiment on this board can be a little too sensitive. But I still think his book of basketball stinks. I hope I'm not offending him.

[Dev11]

The only negative here is that Shane Ryan won't be writing a game article from Cameron. Along with Chuck Klosterman, he is the best thing about Grantland.

I'll be totally honest, between Seth Curry Saves Duke and his stuff on Grantland, I actually find Shane Ryan to be the exact type of Duke fan I never want to talk to. He exaggerates stereotypes that I try, in my own humble way, to de-emphasize. What do you like about his style? (Just wondering, not trying to be condescending)

On Simmons, come on ya'll, its Simmons. Taking him seriously is almost as bad as taking Colbert seriously as a political commentator. Ignoring what he says about college basketball, he's a fairly entertaining writer. So he panders to the run-of-the-mill Duke haters. Whatever. His NBA stuff is pretty witty, I think.

[Kedsy]

The only negative here is that Shane Ryan won't be writing a game article from Cameron. Along with Chuck Klosterman, he is the best thing about Grantland.

You really think so? Most of Shane Ryan's pieces make me want to throw up.

[darthur]

Sorry, but his 1.6 million followers are going to see his Twitter profile pic for the next few days: http://www.twitter.com/sportsguy33. This doesn't seem very tongue-in-cheek.

The guy is a humor writer who makes a living of deliberately playing up his own biases as a sports fan to silly levels. So yes, even if this board doesn't appreciate the style, the profile pic and the tweet are both tongue-in-cheek.

[Devilsfan]

Like millions of other Americans, i Never heard of him.

[Indoor66]

I completely agree that the sentiment on this board can be a little too sensitive. But I still think his book of basketball stinks. I hope I'm not offending him.

Why? He offered up a lousy book!

[weezie]

I completely agree that the sentiment on this board can be a little too sensitive.

True, true. Sensitive, cultured, intelligent, good looking, we're very finely bred, that's for sure.

[Lid]

I'll be totally honest, between Seth Curry Saves Duke and his stuff on Grantland, I actually find Shane Ryan to be the exact type of Duke fan I never want to talk to. He exaggerates stereotypes that I try, in my own humble way, to de-emphasize. What do you like about his style? (Just wondering, not trying to be condescending)

I'm disappointed not to read what Shane Ryan would have written, also. I thought his two pieces after the first Carolina game were great. I'm curious what people didn't like about them?

Game reaction (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/16782/austins-first-miracle)
I think this is hilarious. (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/16787/about-last-night-the-blue-devils-in-full)

I couldn't care less about Simmons, and think it's obvious that he writes what sells. Overreacting to him is just feeding the troll, IMO. But I think Shane can be really funny.

[David]

I'll be totally honest, between Seth Curry Saves Duke and his stuff on Grantland, I actually find Shane Ryan to be the exact type of Duke fan I never want to talk to. He exaggerates stereotypes that I try, in my own humble way, to de-emphasize. What do you like about his style? (Just wondering, not trying to be condescending).

You asked what I like about Ryan's style: First, I think he is funny.

See this piece linked by Lid above:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/16787/about-last-night-the-blue-devils-in-full

If you don't find this funny, you have a different sense of humor that I do.

Second, he writes from a unique perspective. For example, in the other piece linked by Lid above, he wrote the following:


Outside the Duke locker room, you could hear wild cheers coming from inside. Chris Collins, an assistant, yelled out, "That's what he does!" Coach K stood by the door talking with Jeff Capel, his former player and assistant. "That was one for the ages," he said, in disbelief. Later, he told Capel — and I'm just reporting the conversation, so don't shoot the messenger — that the Carolina players wanted to run into the locker room without shaking hands (who can blame them, really?) and that Rasheed Wallace, of all people, was instrumental in forcing them to come back.

I found this interesting. This was not something I got from other write-ups of the game. Is Ryan a substitute for Jay Bilas or Seth Davis? Of course not. However, I find his writing a nice complement to more traditional game stories.

Third, I like the fact that he writes from the perspective of a fan who enjoys Duke basketball. I don't agree with everything he writes (e.g., Tyler Zeller is not the most hated Heel - that would be one Harrison Barnes), but I don't believe there is another Duke grad out there writing in this style for a major media outlet.

Out of curiousity, what negative Duke fan stereotypes do you think he emphasizes? Based on what I have read, he doesn't take himself or Duke too seriously, I don't find him entitled, and I think he understands basketball fairly well.

[Dev11]

You asked what I like about Ryan's style: First, I think he is funny.

See this piece linked by Lid above:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/16787/about-last-night-the-blue-devils-in-full

If you don't find this funny, you have a different sense of humor that I do.

Second, he writes from a unique perspective. For example, in the other piece linked by Lid above, he wrote the following:



I found this interesting. This was not something I got from other write-ups of the game. Is Ryan a substitute for Jay Bilas or Seth Davis? Of course not. However, I find his writing a nice complement to more traditional game stories.

Third, I like the fact that he writes from the perspective of a fan who enjoys Duke basketball. I don't agree with everything he writes (e.g., Tyler Zeller is not the most hated Heel - that would be one Harrison Barnes), but I don't believe there is another Duke grad out there writing in this style for a major media outlet.

Out of curiousity, what negative Duke fan stereotypes do you think he emphasizes? Based on what I have read, he doesn't take himself or Duke too seriously, I don't find him entitled, and I think he understands basketball fairly well.

Fair points, he does have fun (as is generally the credo of Grantland) in his writing, but it's quotes like these that don't make much sense to me (from his Duke preview back in October):

"Duke is Hunker-Down University, a little sanctuary for people who know they're not liked."

I don't get it. I just graduated from Duke last year, and I don't KNOW that I'm not liked, nor did any of my friends. Perhaps if you only hang out on ESPN comments threads, you would perceive that everybody hates you, but I tend to think that those places represent an ugly minority. I get that he is trying to gain a little credit from people who only know Duke from its basketball program, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Hard to explain, I suppose.

Maybe I have different standards for Shane Ryan, a Duke fan and alumnus (?), and Bill Simmons, who has been doing this shtick for over a decade. Like Simmons, I prefer Shane when he's not talking about college basketball, even if he does appear knowledgeable.

[COYS]

Fair points, he does have fun (as is generally the credo of Grantland) in his writing, but it's quotes like these that don't make much sense to me (from his Duke preview back in October):

"Duke is Hunker-Down University, a little sanctuary for people who know they're not liked."

I don't get it. I just graduated from Duke last year, and I don't KNOW that I'm not liked, nor did any of my friends. Perhaps if you only hang out on ESPN comments threads, you would perceive that everybody hates you, but I tend to think that those places represent an ugly minority. I get that he is trying to gain a little credit from people who only know Duke from its basketball program, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Hard to explain, I suppose.

Maybe I have different standards for Shane Ryan, a Duke fan and alumnus (?), and Bill Simmons, who has been doing this shtick for over a decade. Like Simmons, I prefer Shane when he's not talking about college basketball, even if he does appear knowledgeable.

Shane also makes the assertion that Duke fans really love to hate Zeller, which I find to be surprising. I get the feeling that most Duke fans really love Zeller's game and, of all the Heels, he would probably be the one most likely to be accepted if he were to suddenly don a Duke uni (given his nice tip-in for Duke the last game we played against them, he's kind of already done this). I know most on this board would agree, even though we'd never ever trade any of our guys, even our team manager, for their biggest star =).

I found the perspective of Shane's piece on DUKE/UNC part 1 to be really interesting, but I tend to agree that he has a bit of a "Duke-guilt" slant to his wording. It's almost as if he is constantly apologizing for being a Duke fan.

[hurleyfor3]

The reason I'm not liked has absolutely nothing to do with having attended Duke.

[Olympic Fan]

Shane also makes the assertion that Duke fans really love to hate Zeller, which I find to be surprising. I get the feeling that most Duke fans really love Zeller's game and, of all the Heels, he would probably be the one most likely to be accepted if he were to suddenly don a Duke uni (given his nice tip-in for Duke the last game we played against them, he's kind of already done this). I know most on this board would agree, even though we'd never ever trade any of our guys, even our team manager, for their biggest star =).

I found the perspective of Shane's piece on DUKE/UNC part 1 to be really interesting, but I tend to agree that he has a bit of a "Duke-guilt" slant to his wording. It's almost as if he is constantly apologizing for being a Duke fan.

Agree with you about Zeller.

If I had to rank the UNC stars in order of my dislike:

1. John Henson -- he's a strutting, self-congratulatory punk. From his celebrations to his chronic rim-hanging to his unnecessary last-second dunk at Maryland, he's everything I dislike about "the Carolina Way."
2. Harrison Barnes -- I hope I'm not letting my disappointment for his decision cloud my judgment, but he is all about his points. He doesn't work hard on defense. He doesn't set up his teammates. He doesn't work the boards. He hunts his shot. I won't go so far as to say I'm glad we didn't get him (because I think K could have straightened him out), but right now, he's not my kind of player.
3. Kendall Marshall -- I love his playmaking ability. It's not his fault that he's basically a non-scorer. He even works on defense, even if he's not very good at it. The only thing I dislike about him is his father's obnoxious presence on local message boards. But that's not his fault -- Mike Gminski had an obnoxious dad too and Mike was (and is) a great guy.
4. Zeller -- What's not to like? Yeah, he's a little soft, but so are most of our big men. He scores in the post. He rebounds and he plays the game with less attitude than anyone else on the team. He even flops like a Dukie! And, as COYS pointed out, he even scored one of our biggest basket of the year. I'd love to have him.

[roywhite]

Agree with you about Zeller.

If I had to rank the UNC stars in order of my dislike:

1. John Henson -- he's a strutting, self-congratulatory punk. From his celebrations to his chronic rim-hanging to his unnecessary last-second dunk at Maryland, he's everything I dislike about "the Carolina Way."
2. Harrison Barnes -- I hope I'm not letting my disappointment for his decision cloud my judgment, but he is all about his points. He doesn't work hard on defense. He doesn't set up his teammates. He doesn't work the boards. He hunts his shot. I won't go so far as to say I'm glad we didn't get him (because I think K could have straightened him out), but right now, he's not my kind of player.
3. Kendall Marshall -- I love his playmaking ability. It's not his fault that he's basically a non-scorer. He even works on defense, even if he's not very good at it. The only thing I dislike about him is his father's obnoxious presence on local message boards. But that's not his fault -- Mike Gminski had an obnoxious dad too and Mike was (and is) a great guy.
4. Zeller -- What's not to like? Yeah, he's a little soft, but so are most of our big men. He scores in the post. He rebounds and he plays the game with less attitude than anyone else on the team. He even flops like a Dukie! And, as COYS pointed out, he even scored one of our biggest basket of the year. I'd love to have him.

Seems about right to me. Makhtar Ndiaye was the ultimate unlikeable TarHeel. Henson is not up to that standard (which included throat-slash gestures and false accusations of racist comments that he attributed to an opponent) but I'd say Henson is Makhtar Lite.

Zeller -- what's not to like?
He looks like Dean. :)

[A-Tex Devil]

Maybe it was said above, but I am almost 100% sure the credential wasn't for Simmons, but for Shane Ryan. Shane Ryan is hit and miss. It bothers me that he writes as though he knows a lot about basketball strategy, but you can tell that he knows just about as much as I do, which is enough to make a fool of yourself in front of guys that REALLY know their stuff.

Simmons is fine. About the time Simmons was transitioning from Boston to LA and working for Jimmy Kimmel, his stuff was really, really good. That was 7 or 8 years ago, and now he's gotten comfortable. I like Grantland for what it is: a dumpster full of articles with some real gems each week among the a morass of other mediocre to poor articles. But those 2-3 really good articles a week in Grantland (Bill Barnwell, Klosterman, Ryan on occasion and others) make up for the fact that he has been going through the motions for 5-7 years now since he started writing books. Grantland has the POTENTIAL to be a sports version of Salon (it already is trying to be McSweeney's -- same design, etc.). Salon's hit rate is much, much better right now, but I am sure in its early days it was just as hit and miss, miss, miss.

[hood7]

Shouldn't Simmons be mad at ESPN rather than Duke? Duke provided ten (10!) seats on press row for ESPN...but apparently ESPN does not view Simmons (or anyone on his Grantland staff) as being among the 10 most worthy 'journalists' on their team. I guess since he doesn't want to lash out at his employer, he lashes out against Duke, which given the above facts just makes him look like a petty whiner.

That said, I like reading Simmons from time to time, and I think Shane Ryan is very entertaining (and not just on Duke stuff). They're both pretty humorous if you read them for humor and opinion rather than hard-hitting sports fact-finding.

[Jderf]

Shane also makes the assertion that Duke fans really love to hate Zeller, which I find to be surprising. I get the feeling that most Duke fans really love Zeller's game and, of all the Heels, he would probably be the one most likely to be accepted if he were to suddenly don a Duke uni (given his nice tip-in for Duke the last game we played against them, he's kind of already done this). I know most on this board would agree, even though we'd never ever trade any of our guys, even our team manager, for their biggest star =).

With Shane Ryan's claim of Zeller being the most-hated tarheel, I agree that it was a bit puzzling. Zeller doesn't seem to get much hate around here at all. But re-reading that passage, I actually think you might actually agree with him. Or at the very least, there might be an interpretation of that paragraph you might agree with. Because, looking at it again, it seems that his reasoning for the "Zeller-hate" is that Zeller is just that good, which most on this board would support. So maybe he's not saying that we hate Zeller, but that we hate that Zeller is so smooth and efficient. We hate that we don't even have an adequate reason to hate him. I could probably agree with that sentiment. As Ryan himself says, it is mostly "because [Zeller] is a genius."

[David]

Fair points, he does have fun (as is generally the credo of Grantland) in his writing, but it's quotes like these that don't make much sense to me (from his Duke preview back in October):

"Duke is Hunker-Down University, a little sanctuary for people who know they're not liked."

I don't get it. I just graduated from Duke last year, and I don't KNOW that I'm not liked, nor did any of my friends. Perhaps if you only hang out on ESPN comments threads, you would perceive that everybody hates you, but I tend to think that those places represent an ugly minority. I get that he is trying to gain a little credit from people who only know Duke from its basketball program, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Hard to explain, I suppose.

Maybe I have different standards for Shane Ryan, a Duke fan and alumnus (?), and Bill Simmons, who has been doing this shtick for over a decade. Like Simmons, I prefer Shane when he's not talking about college basketball, even if he does appear knowledgeable.

Dev11 - I agree with you on the lameness of Ryan's "Duke guilt" shtick. It is possible to be funny about Duke stereotypes (e.g., his bit about how everyone from Duke is from NJ), but I think your example shows how you can miss the mark when you feed the trolls (ESPN msg boards, U MD grads, etc.).

P.S. I thought Dev11 referenced my alltime favorite Devil and classmate ('93) Bobby Hurley. Now I realize that you graduated in 2011. I feel old.

[nolan8or]

maybe it's because one of their writers said Austin Rivers' "face is just asking for a fist to be thrown into it."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7562443/titus-top-12-power-rankings-week-9-including-kentucky-austin-rivers-rest-week-college-basketball

[ChicagoDevil]

Looks like Duke has made an enemy of Bill Simmons aka ESPN's Sports Guy. https://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33/status/174563431347789824

Could be interesting.

Why even discuss William here...who cares about what he thinks!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agree with you about Zeller.

If I had to rank the UNC stars in order of my dislike:

1. John Henson -- he's a strutting, self-congratulatory punk. From his celebrations to his chronic rim-hanging to his unnecessary last-second dunk at Maryland, he's everything I dislike about "the Carolina Way."
2. Harrison Barnes -- I hope I'm not letting my disappointment for his decision cloud my judgment, but he is all about his points. He doesn't work hard on defense. He doesn't set up his teammates. He doesn't work the boards. He hunts his shot. I won't go so far as to say I'm glad we didn't get him (because I think K could have straightened him out), but right now, he's not my kind of player.
3. Kendall Marshall -- I love his playmaking ability. It's not his fault that he's basically a non-scorer. He even works on defense, even if he's not very good at it. The only thing I dislike about him is his father's obnoxious presence on local message boards. But that's not his fault -- Mike Gminski had an obnoxious dad too and Mike was (and is) a great guy.
4. Zeller -- What's not to like? Yeah, he's a little soft, but so are most of our big men. He scores in the post. He rebounds and he plays the game with less attitude than anyone else on the team. He even flops like a Dukie! And, as COYS pointed out, he even scored one of our biggest basket of the year. I'd love to have him.

Good list. But Zeller isn't 4th. He's probably at the bottom of the ladder. Need to insert Bullock as the 3rd. He's not as bad as Henson or Barnes, but he is incredibly cocky for a player that hasn't done anything.

[loran16]

Awful announcing has a good take on the situation:

http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-articles/february/bill-simmons-shane-ryan-grantland-and-a-weird-duke-unc-access-controversy.html

It WAS for Shane Ryan, but Duke considered Grantland part of ESPN, which had too many spots already.

[Kfanarmy]

Reads like someone's ego got a bit bruised...

[weezie]

The reason I'm not liked has absolutely nothing to do with having attended Duke.


I'll vouch for that! hahaha

Oh no, h43, we love you!

[DUKIE V(A)]

"Oh No, Not Simmons" :D

[Mike Corey]

So Bill Simmons says "It's on!" with Duke.

Sure, Bill's a prolific and popular personality. But no one's ever composed so many words to say so little.

I think we'll be okay, no matter how many adjectives Simmons strings together to describe his angst from on high.

[CDu]

So Bill Simmons says "It's on!" with Duke.

Sure, Bill's a prolific and popular personality. But no one's ever composed so many words to say so little.

I think we'll be okay, no matter how many adjectives Simmons strings together to describe his angst from on high.

Folks that dislike Duke will continue to dislike Duke. Folks that like Duke aren't going to be swayed by Simmons anyway. Folks that are ambivalent or agnostic probably aren't reading Grantland or Simmons articles anyway. Simmons can write whatever he wants. It's not going to affect anything meaningful.

[J_C_Steel]

Simmons certainly overreacted to the lack of credentialing, but let's not pretend like the guy isn't a big deal in the world of sports.

Guess who he had on his most recent podcast?

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/18687/b-s-report-barack-obama

[Mike Corey]

Simmons is extremely popular. But as was noted above, he's not convincing anyone of Duke's egregiousness that isn't already inebriated on that particular potion.

[Kfanarmy]

Simmons certainly overreacted to the lack of credentialing, but let's not pretend like the guy isn't a big deal in the world of sports.

Guess who he had on his most recent podcast?

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/18687/b-s-report-barack-obama must be really hurting for talent

[Kedsy]

Simmons is extremely popular. But as was noted above, he's not convincing anyone of Duke's egregiousness that isn't already inebriated on that particular potion.

I totally agree, especially when his message of persuasion is "Duke s^cks."

[slower]

Simmons is extremely popular. But as was noted above, he's not convincing anyone of Duke's egregiousness that isn't already inebriated on that particular potion.

Maybe not, be he IS offering to buy free drinks for the house.

Let's not pretend that people can't be swayed by negative messages, no matter how silly or biased. It works, plain and simple.

[Duvall]

Maybe not, be he IS offering to buy free drinks for the house.

Let's not pretend that people can't be swayed by negative messages, no matter how silly or biased. It works, plain and simple.

Swayed into what, though? Duke's success in recent years is fairly strong evidence that the opposition of the mouthbreathers that buy into Duke Hate just doesn't matter very much.

[Kedsy]

Let's not pretend that people can't be swayed by negative messages, no matter how silly or biased. It works, plain and simple.

This is true, of course, but Simmons has been singing this song for years. He's already swayed most everybody he's going to get.

[COYS]

Also, let's not underestimate hate for other programs, too. Here in Tennessee, for those who care about basketball (and I fully admit that most care far more about football), KY hate is about as fierce as it gets. Yeah, people would be ecstatic for Vandy, Belmont or UT (and I don't mean Texas) to beat Duke. But I'm not sure they'd be more excited to beat Duke than UNC. They probably roll their eyes when Duke gets press, but it's not much different than what UNC gets. Here, KY is the big bad wolf. I would imagine you'd actually have a fairly large number of bandwagon supporters for either Duke or UNC if they meet KY in the tourney. So, basically Simmons has been doing his thing for years and everyone that hates Duke is going to hate Duke. But here in Tennessee (and I suspect many other parts of the country) Simmons has little to no influence over the sports allegiances of the country.

I've always disliked Simmons if only because of his north-east bias. I love baseball, but couldn't care less about hearing more about the Sox. It doesn't mean Simmons isn't good for what he is. It just means I formed my opinion about him for reasons other than his Duke hate. I would imagine plenty of others in the country would find his Boston sports love to be far more of a factor in evaluating him than whether or not he hates Duke.

[Mike Corey]

Below is my report on the back story here:

At 1:35 PM on February 28th, Bill Simmons—the prolific and popular chronicler of his musings on sport and culture for ESPN.com and Grantland.com—fired a volley across the bow of the Internet: “Duke wouldn’t credential Grantland for Saturday’s Duke-UNC game. I already hated Duke but was diplomatic about it… no more. IT IS ON!” Mr. Simmons, whose loathing of Duke has been so diplomatic that he charged Duke and the NCAA with colluding over the Blue Devils’ 2010 NCAA Tournament draw, sent this message out to his 1.6 million followers. He since changed his Twitter image to a graphic that read, “DUKE SUCKS,” and then changed it to a picture of a Tar Heel dunking in a Duke game.

Such has marked the lone communiqué from ESPN or Grantland.com that it was in any way disappointed—or disgruntled—with Duke’s denial of a media pass to Grantland.com. In other words, it was the lone communication between the editor-in-chief of Grantland.com with Duke’s athletic department.

“If you’ve got an issue, pick up the phone,” said Duke’s Associate Athletic Director Jon Jackson. “And then if you don’t like what you’re hearing, tweet all you want. But the first time we’re hearing about there’s an issue, it is being tweeted to more than a million people.”

~

This all began a few weeks ago, when Duke’s Associate Sports Information Director Matt Plizga received a request from Shane Ryan, a Grantland blogger and, incidentally, a 2005 Duke graduate. (Full disclosure: I am an admirer of Ryan’s, personally and professionally, though I do not always agree with his take or tone regarding Duke basketball.). When Ryan’s request was denied, Grantland’s Sarah Larimer requested a media credential on Ryan’s behalf.

Plizga reviewed the availability of credentials, the allocation already being provided to ESPN and its outlets—ten of fifty-seven available spots, which is two times more than any other media outlet—and concluded that because of space limitations, Duke would not be able to accommodate Grantland’s request.

On February 22, the Grantland employee responded, without objection or a request for clarification, that Duke could not accommodate the request.

“This was textbook, above the board, handled completely appropriately,” Jackson says. “We’re ultra-sensitive about being totally above board about this kind of thing.”

The next time Duke heard from Grantland, it was via Simmons’ tweet.

“If people have problems, let’s talk,” Jackson said. “And let’s try to come up with a solution instead of lashing out. Look, sometimes we deserve to get criticized. We’re not perfect. I just think this whole thing could have been avoided with a brief conversation.”

It’s worth noting that Plizga has turned down 25-30 credential requests this season, and the interest for this iteration of Duke-C*rolina has been extremely high. “I have been able to put another 4-10 media members in ticketed seats,” Plizga told Poynter.org. “I also have 20-25 media that will be provided postgame access but will have to watch the game from the media room in Cameron Indoor Stadium.”

With interest such as that, it is more than reasonable that Duke would deny a credential to an outlet that was yet to have covered Duke all season, and to a company that already had ten employees credentialed for the game.

“We’re also trying to accommodate the people who cover these two teams every day, which should be a priority, they shouldn’t be getting bumped for the biggest game of the year,” Jackson added.

[oldnavy]

Hey folks it's not important that people like you, it is important that you are fair and honest and do the right thing.

You cannot control what other people feel, so treat people right (as the good book says) and let the chips fall where they may. Duke hate is the haters issue not ours.

I bet Coach K couldn't care less what Bill Simmons' thinks about him or Duke.

[mr. synellinden]

Below is my report on the back story here:

At 1:35 PM on February 28th, Bill Simmons—the prolific and popular chronicler of his musings on sport and culture for ESPN.com and Grantland.com—fired a volley across the bow of the Internet: “Duke wouldn’t credential Grantland for Saturday’s Duke-UNC game. I already hated Duke but was diplomatic about it… no more. IT IS ON!” Mr. Simmons, whose loathing of Duke has been so diplomatic that he charged Duke and the NCAA with colluding over the Blue Devils’ 2010 NCAA Tournament draw, sent this message out to his 1.6 million followers. He since changed his Twitter image to a graphic that read, “DUKE SUCKS,” and then changed it to a picture of a Tar Heel dunking in a Duke game.

Such has marked the lone communiqué from ESPN or Grantland.com that it was in any way disappointed—or disgruntled—with Duke’s denial of a media pass to Grantland.com. In other words, it was the lone communication between the editor-in-chief of Grantland.com with Duke’s athletic department.

“If you’ve got an issue, pick up the phone,” said Duke’s Associate Athletic Director Jon Jackson. “And then if you don’t like what you’re hearing, tweet all you want. But the first time we’re hearing about there’s an issue, it is being tweeted to more than a million people.”

~

This all began a few weeks ago, when Duke’s Associate Sports Information Director Matt Plizga received a request from Shane Ryan, a Grantland blogger and, incidentally, a 2005 Duke graduate. (Full disclosure: I am an admirer of Ryan’s, personally and professionally, though I do not always agree with his take or tone regarding Duke basketball.). When Ryan’s request was denied, Grantland’s Sarah Larimer requested a media credential on Ryan’s behalf.

Plizga reviewed the availability of credentials, the allocation already being provided to ESPN and its outlets—ten of fifty-seven available spots, which is two times more than any other media outlet—and concluded that because of space limitations, Duke would not be able to accommodate Grantland’s request.

On February 22, the Grantland employee responded, without objection or a request for clarification, that Duke could not accommodate the request.

“This was textbook, above the board, handled completely appropriately,” Jackson says. “We’re ultra-sensitive about being totally above board about this kind of thing.”

The next time Duke heard from Grantland, it was via Simmons’ tweet.

“If people have problems, let’s talk,” Jackson said. “And let’s try to come up with a solution instead of lashing out. Look, sometimes we deserve to get criticized. We’re not perfect. I just think this whole thing could have been avoided with a brief conversation.”

It’s worth noting that Plizga has turned down 25-30 credential requests this season, and the interest for this iteration of Duke-C*rolina has been extremely high. “I have been able to put another 4-10 media members in ticketed seats,” Plizga told Poynter.org. “I also have 20-25 media that will be provided postgame access but will have to watch the game from the media room in Cameron Indoor Stadium.”

With interest such as that, it is more than reasonable that Duke would deny a credential to an outlet that was yet to have covered Duke all season, and to a company that already had ten employees credentialed for the game.

“We’re also trying to accommodate the people who cover these two teams every day, which should be a priority, they shouldn’t be getting bumped for the biggest game of the year,” Jackson added.

I wish I could re-tweet this. Thanks for the background story.

[A-Tex Devil]

I wish I could re-tweet this. Thanks for the background story.

You can (https://twitter.com/#!/RathskellerFT/status/175350693794816000)

[darthur]

“If you’ve got an issue, pick up the phone,” said Duke’s Associate Athletic Director Jon Jackson. “And then if you don’t like what you’re hearing, tweet all you want. But the first time we’re hearing about there’s an issue, it is being tweeted to more than a million people.”

It's almost like Bill Simmons doesn't *actually* care, and he is just having fun playing up the trash-talking sports fan persona that is the basis for his column, which by the way is a humor column.

Yes, Duke did nothing wrong. But, IMO a better background summary has already been given in this thread:


On Simmons, come on ya'll, its Simmons. Taking him seriously is almost as bad as taking Colbert seriously as a political commentator.

[johnb]

Agree with you about Zeller.

If I had to rank the UNC stars in order of my dislike:

1. John Henson -- he's a strutting, self-congratulatory punk. From his celebrations to his chronic rim-hanging to his unnecessary last-second dunk at Maryland, he's everything I dislike about "the Carolina Way."
2. Harrison Barnes -- I hope I'm not letting my disappointment for his decision cloud my judgment, but he is all about his points. He doesn't work hard on defense. He doesn't set up his teammates. He doesn't work the boards. He hunts his shot. I won't go so far as to say I'm glad we didn't get him (because I think K could have straightened him out), but right now, he's not my kind of player.
3. Kendall Marshall -- I love his playmaking ability. It's not his fault that he's basically a non-scorer. He even works on defense, even if he's not very good at it. The only thing I dislike about him is his father's obnoxious presence on local message boards. But that's not his fault -- Mike Gminski had an obnoxious dad too and Mike was (and is) a great guy.
4. Zeller -- What's not to like? Yeah, he's a little soft, but so are most of our big men. He scores in the post. He rebounds and he plays the game with less attitude than anyone else on the team. He even flops like a Dukie! And, as COYS pointed out, he even scored one of our biggest basket of the year. I'd love to have him.

Any or all of them could play for Duke, and we'd LOVE them. If AR, Seth, or the Plumlees played for Carolina or Connecticut, we'd hate them (and if they played for Maryland or NC State, thereby making them contenders, we'd REALLY hate thm and wonder how they could ever have not gone to Duke). I prefer to hate the team but keep my loathing for 21 yo jocks limited to the real outliers like Ngiaye.

BTW, I'd never read grantland, but the links were funny. So somebody said something about Duke hating, but the same guy praises Duke to the stars. Surely we can't expect everyone to be Dick Vitale--and even he praises--gasp--other teams. And I am completely confident (which is a rarity) that he spent less time thinking up and writing down some of his sentences than we've spent parsing his meanings and worth as a human being. And frankly, if I were Duke administration, I'd give him an extra seat since he is GOOD for us--far better than yet another suit saying routine things.

[loldevilz]

Oh Crap "ITS ON!!" That is maybe the most lame thing I've ever heard from someone thats supposed to have a way with word. Bill Simmons sucks. So do all these writers who can't write their way out of a paper bag and claim to be "journalists".

[toooskies]

BTW, I'd never read grantland, but the links were funny. So somebody said something about Duke hating, but the same guy praises Duke to the stars. Surely we can't expect everyone to be Dick Vitale--and even he praises--gasp--other teams. And I am completely confident (which is a rarity) that he spent less time thinking up and writing down some of his sentences than we've spent parsing his meanings and worth as a human being. And frankly, if I were Duke administration, I'd give him an extra seat since he is GOOD for us--far better than yet another suit saying routine things.

But we don't like the ways he praises and otherwise characterizes Duke. He makes generalizations about the student body that He used "Plumdog Millionaire" the first few articles he wrote for Grantland, a carry-over from the Seth Curry Saves Duke blog, but I never saw the cleverness there. He fully bought into the "Austin Rivers doesn't play well with teammates" thing in the Blue-White game when anything but the case is true. He called the Big East the best conference in the country when his evidence for this is the massive mediocrity of the middle of their league. He started one of his articles commenting on how bad his headline was, and then compared it to a basketball team.

He can be clever, but he's certainly too playful for my taste. And he's willing to take any angle he can, even when he may not even believe it. He's capable of good articles (Duke@UNC), but I've disliked most of what I've seen. In that way, he's like Miami.

Simmons on the other hand? More like UNC. Doesn't focus on the fundamentals (i.e. journalism), but has the presence based on a time-tested style and succeeds based on on the style he presents and the people he attracts.

[left_hook_lacey]

Somehow, I keep getting sucked into reading this thread because I see new posts as if some new revelation has been discovered. I could go on with some well thought out paragraph about how this hurts us, or how it doesn't really matter. But what comes to mind the most is two words....WHO CARES?

Bill Simmons has hated the Yankees for years, do you think the Yankees staff or their fans for that matter are sitting around worrying about what Bill Simmons thinks? I doubt it.

There are more importing things to worry about such as channeling all your energy to 9pm tonight to send UNC-CH to hell.

Moving on.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

There are more importing things to worry about such as channeling all your energy to 9pm tonight to send UNC-CH to hell.

Moving on.

Totally agree with everything you said. However, more importantly, in case you did not find out beforehand, UNC's one way trip to hell is at 7 pm this evening. That is one flight you do not want to be late for!;)

[Bob Green]

There are more importing things to worry about such as channeling all your energy to 9pm tonight to send UNC-CH to hell.

The game is at 7 pm.

[Lord Ash]

The game is at 7 pm.

Wow. Can you IMAGINE... you sit down to watch at 9 and turn on the TV to hear "What a CLASSIC Duke UNC game! Another for the games!"

Wow. Bob, that is your good deed for the day.

[Devilsfan]

Who's Bill Simmons? Never heard of him.

[left_hook_lacey]

Totally agree with everything you said. However, more importantly, in case you did not find out beforehand, UNC's one way trip to hell is at 7 pm this evening. That is one flight you do not want to be late for!;)


The game is at 7 pm.


Wow. Can you IMAGINE... you sit down to watch at 9 and turn on the TV to hear "What a CLASSIC Duke UNC game! Another for the games!"

Wow. Bob, that is your good deed for the day.

Holy Crap! Thanks guys. How could in the world could I have had THIS game time wrong of all games?! Oh well, the good news is it's now two hours closer to game time in my world. The bad part is I still have a ton of work to get done in order to start my pre-game festivities.....Thanks again.